Latest / NHA Today Podcast / The Mindset Behind Lifelong Health with Dr. Frank Sabatino
Transcript
- Stephan Esser MD: Hello and welcome today's NHH Day podcast. Today I'm thrilled to get to spend some time with one of my mentors, someone I very much look up to and am always inspired by, Dr. Frank Sabatino. We're gonna read his biography because it is compelling, chiropractic plant based physician for almost 50 years, having directed and founded several major vegan lifestyle fasting programs a PhD in neuroendocrinology and cell biology from Emory University School of Medicine. Past assistant professor at the University of Texas Health Sciences Center, where he did landmark research on calorie restriction and aging, and is a prestigious Brooksdale fellow in gerontology and aging, director of health education for the NHA, science and research director for the Global Complimentary Medical Association located in the UK, president of the International Association of Hygienic Physicians. He's also certified in addiction care by the American College of Addictology and Compulsive Disorders. Director of the Healthful Living Ocean Retreat in Deerfield Beach, which we're gonna chat about, which is a fasting, whole plant food and juice detox program. And he's an author of Weightless, a book on compassionate weight loss for life. Doctor Sabatino, welcome to the program today. Frank Sabatino: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so happy to be here. Stephan Esser MD: You know, your book Weightless, tell me the approach to the kind of weightless being compassionate. You know, you say it's a book on compassionate weight loss for life. What does that mean? Frank Sabatino: You know, I got all the years of working through the centers that I did, as you well know, obesity and weight issues are ⁓ you know a major pandemic in in the world and in our country for sure. And having had a lot of experience working with people clinically over many, many years, I tired of the really reductionistic approach to weight loss, meaning that everybody just kind of made it calories in, calories out, move a little bit, and then even worse. Giving people the impression that the only way they could achieve healthy weight and body fat was by eating an animal-based approach. And you'll see high protein diets and paleo diets and kind of giving people the impression that they had to decimate and destroy, you know, other species for the idea of achieving their own health and weight loss goals, which was a reprehensible idea to me. Because as it turns out, eating a whole plant food diet. That is low in calorie density, high in nutrient density, like we recommend, is really the starting point. It has to be the foundation for this approach. But then also incorporating the idea that there were many other pieces to the weight and fat loss story, meaning they involved things that centered around sleep and they centered around stress and they centered around factors of addiction and emotionology and body imaging and self-love and so many other pieces. So for me, the foundation was embracing a lifestyle that at least on a food level was embracing a more compassionate approach, realizing that we could live on a whole food, whole plant exclusive diet. That would be the most ideal way to jumpstart this idea of reducing body fat and then bringing in this bigger picture, these constellation of factors that are typically overlooked in the weight loss story. meaning stress and sleep and you know activity and and so on and so forth. So that's where that approach came into being for me. And I wanted to give people an idea that it's not the weight part of it was really a very small part of it. The real risky part is body fat, not body weight. And so it also wanted to hammer home this idea that, you know, we're looking in the wrong place. You could be lean and be overfat and have tremendous risk. The that came out of the Finnish studies, the fin risk studies where they had, you know, normal weight obesity. And so there were so many pieces that were kind of, in a way, ass backwards for people. ⁓ this idea of wanting to turn them on to a more compassionate way of eating and living, and realizing that not only does that provide the best resource for health in general. But for body weight regulation and fat loss in particular. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Beautiful. Well, I mean, I think you've also got a l when I look at your bio, it's interesting, right? You've got this neuroendocronology take, you've got this addiction take. So it sounds like, you know, you're bringing all of those pieces together when it comes to assisting people and achieving their best health. Frank Sabatino: Yeah, I wrote this book thinking that if I die tomorrow, everything's in one place, basically. That was my mentality. So the book could have been four or five books, actually. But I just put it all in there so that people could tap in in the book anywhere they felt like going. So if you wanted to get into the whole nutritional approach up front, we cover all that. But if you really wanted to look at the impact of sleep or the impact of stress or where does addiction play? you could kinda go into those areas and kind of investigate that without having necessarily to read it in a linear manner, in a linear fashion. So I agree, I know it's a big book. It's got a lot in it, but at the same time I just was happy that I was able to touch on all those pieces. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. I mean, in our society today, although the we're most connected society in the history of the world, I feel like we're also the most isolated. And when you think about kind of people and their health, you know, your take on that sort of aspect of kind of connection and compassion and you know you w when it comes to kind of people being successful long term with their health. How important do you think that area is? Frank Sabatino: Well, I think it's really important. I think think w without getting lost in it, I think it's the and I'll use the S word, it's got it's a spiritual foundation to what this is. You know, when we talk about spirituality, most people equate that with religiosity. You know, you go to religions and you go to services. for me that's not what it's about. Spirituality for me is about, you know, when you make choices, what are the consequences of those choices? And how do they affect everything around us, not just our personal agenda? So, you know, the bottom line is when we're eating in a way that is plant exclusive, not only are we you know creating the conditions that give us the best opportunity to be well, but we're respecting and honoring all other creative life around us, other species, the planet itself. That's one of the beautiful benefits and rewards of eating this way. So You know, I I'd like to emphasize that, you know, when we eat, the consequences of our choices far beyond the boundaries of our own individual kitchens and the borders of our own plates. They into this mentality of, you know, how does how does our agenda, how do how do our choices affect everything around us? And this is where I have a little problem with just getting focused into the egocentric model of personal health, because too often Stephan Esser MD: Right. Frank Sabatino: You know, when you're not well, you tend to withdraw. Everything kind of becomes more, you know, if you're in pain, the whole world is your pain. So you tend to be focused you in isolation to the rest of the world. And so the bottom line here is understanding that everything is connected. If anything comes out of quantum physics and all of that mentality is that there is no separation. There's no way to tell where your the border of your body ends and mine begins. We're connected and we're connected with all life, what the Buddhists like to call interbeing. I like that that word, interbeing, this connection of life. And so when we make a choice, there's nothing isolated about it. And we have to transcend in a way own ego demands, though those are important, because we want to feel good, we want to be well, but we have to somehow get. look in a bigger way at a bigger picture of what are the consequences of those choices and how are they fostering balance and benefit in other things around our personal agenda. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. I mean I like that mindset because it almost gives greater value and purpose to the personal choices you're making. Right. So it's not you're not just thinking of yourself alone in isolation, like you're saying. There's this inner connectedness which really more responsibility to the choices that you're making in many ways, you know? Frank Sabatino: Yeah, I call it I call it, you know, when you make a choice or when you're making choices in your lifestyle, are you supporting what I call the three love affairs of health? And they to me are the idea of self-love where you're actually honoring and respecting this incredible creation that you are and doing those things that bring out the best version of yourself, bringing out the best opportunity for you to do and perform the best in your life. But also supporting the love of other species, our brothers and sisters of all species. And then, of course, this incredible creation, the planet itself on which we live. And I think if you're making choices that don't honor and respect all of that in a way, there's a part of me that feels that it's not a complete health model. It it becomes a little bit too fragmented, it becomes a little bit too egocentric. And I understand it because You know, when we're not feeling well, there's fear. The ego is afraid of things. The ego is afraid of change. The ego is afraid of difference. And so when we are moving along in a certain way, and then all of a sudden we may have a catastrophic event or a catastrophic health situation, the first thing that comes up is fear. And the ego fears death, basically. So all of our life then becomes kind of withdrawn. We kind of pull in. And our focus only becomes that. And on some level we have to kind of transcend that no matter how no matter how brutal things are going on in our life and around us. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it certainly gives greater purpose to individuals. And as we know, right, a individual who has purpose in their life is more likely to be successful and make better choices and decisions and healthier choices versus not having any any real purpose or intention. You know, when I it seems like we have a society right now that, you know, really is of awash with mental health issues. You know, in your in your take and your experience, how much does kind of the nutrition play into, let's say, depression and anxiety. Like what what what do you tend to see with all the thousands of patients you cared for? Frank Sabatino: I I think I think I think I think it's a big deal. you know, we're now even coming to find that, for example, we now I just read a an interesting article that came out where they're pushing this model where even the changes in the microbiome are actually affecting memory centers in the brain to foster the way we interpret information and remember things. So, you know, you've got that vagus nerve connection with the gut, and when there are changes in that gut, dysbiosis or abnormal micro you're getting chemical changes that actually are able to cross the blood-brain barrier and get into into brain centers and brain areas and create dysfunction and and pathology and change. So to me, you know, eating in a way that is creating the nutrient density that we know plants provide and that is our natural way of eating. It is the most natural for the human primate to to eat that way. We're getting such a range of nutrients that affect the body everywhere. You know, we we we we always you talk about heart disease and diabetes and and all of those things to me are all connected because the underlying fabric of creating all of those conditions are things like chronic inflammation, oxidative stress, all of those things that are being the kind of damage that's being promoted. To a great extent, at least at the beginning, through the dietary patterns that we have. You know, if you're eating 60 to 70 percent of your diet from processed and ultra-processed food, like so many Americans, and five percent from fruits and vegetables, there's something wrong with this picture. And the bottom line is those nutrients that are coming in, whether they're antioxidants or vitamins, minerals, whatever, they're they're nurturing this system, they're providing information. To the body and the brain to really help help move it in the direction that it's really trying to go. You know, healing is a is a genetic construct, and but it needs basic biological requirements to support it. So the food is a huge piece to me. And I think it's intriguing to me that I really think that almost like the old Pottinger cat experiments, that in succeeding generations, see more and more degeneration that tends to occur. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Frank Sabatino: as you eat more and more or deviate more and more into more ultra processed toxic material. And so I think we are are I think we are reaping that harvest to some degree. I think some of these disturbances ⁓ know, kind of multiple generations of incorporating more and more of these foods that are deviating from what is most natural and beneficial to the human body. So whether the heart is affected or the joint is affected. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Frank Sabatino: or the brain is affected, it's all affected. So my personal feeling is I think it's a big piece. And then you have issues that of course come down to stress patterns and other things, which we can't, you know, undervalue. But I would say the food is a huge piece for sure. Stephan Esser MD: Yeah. Now, speaking of food, you run retreats on the beach where people can come and stay for I think a week at a time. I want to hear more about that and kind of get this nourishing food plus education in a gorgeous setting. I've been to your location. It's absolutely beautiful out there on the beach. Tell us more about that, kind of where it is, how often it's going on, and you know, w if people are looking for an amazing opportunity, you know, what tell us. Frank Sabatino: Yeah, you know, they were before the For many years I only operated residential centers that were really year round. So people could come, you know, we we would have people coming, you know, twenty four seven year round. And in those cases we had people staying sometimes weeks and months at the center. But once we we we we were doing that at this hotel, the Wyndham Hotel in Deerfield Beach, but when the pandemic hit, the hotel had to close. ⁓ That was part of the restrictions that went on during that ep, you know, that pandemic. So once that lifted and we wanted to go back, I decided that after all the years of taking care of 50 to 100 people a week year-round, that the smaller model was much more suited to where I am right now. And we decided that we would try to do a week a month in the same context. And the nice thing was by having the year-round program, we literally had trained. that kitchen staff in the hotel to prepare free whole plant food. ⁓ we had already done the legwork and they loved us. So it was a built-in you know, support for our program. ⁓ So people come now, they can do one of three things. They could either eat the whole plant exclusive diet, that is SOS free, ⁓ without added salt, oil, and sugar. They could do a green juice detox if they wanted to do that for a short period of time. Stephan Esser MD: Nice. Frank Sabatino: Or they can do a short period, four to five days of water-only fasting under my supervision. And that gives us a couple of days to break. We have like a seven-day program. lecture every day. We have some special guest speakers. We have fitness classes all day, ocean walks, pool classes. There's a fully equipped gym for resistance training. I teach Tai Chi. There's yoga every day. So we do workshops, recipe classes. So it's a Stephan Esser MD: Nice. Awesome. Frank Sabatino: It's remarkable because we don't keep we we try to keep it between just five and ten people so that I could work really personally and individually with everyone. And you know, we we get nothing but five-star reviews because of that. I mean it's uphill, it's beautiful. The ocean war and the beach is beautiful in Deerfield. So I feel blessed and and we're just kind of getting that model again off the ground with the healthful living ocean retreat. We just really started in January. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Frank Sabatino: So it's still up and down, but we're we're even if we have just a few people, I still run it because I don't really care. I wanna just really help as many people as we can. But it's a great program and and we're very fortunate in that we did legwork with the hotel for them to really support our model. Stephan Esser MD: Love it. Well, we'll make sure that that link for people to learn more about it and sign up for the next retreat is in the show notes or at the end of the show. ⁓ because it sounds like a very immersive and personalized experience. Frank Sabatino: Yeah, and we have a great and we have a great and we have a great Yeah, we have a great website where they can really see the rooms and see the program and the descriptions of everything. I mean, so they can go there and check it all out. It's nice. It's a great website. Stephan Esser MD: So when you think about kind of integrating healthy decisions into the average American's life, you know, so many people, like you said, seven up to 70% of calories like in adolescence, right, derive from ultra-processed food, right? This tiny little amount from whole foods. you know, I so many people feel overwhelmed. Where where do you tell, where would you tell the average person watching this show right now who's trying to make a transition to healthier behaviors? You know, what are you what are the first steps you'd recommend to them? Frank Sabatino: Well, the first step is to work with the diet and try to get out as much of the processed stuff as you can. You know, when when we look at the database and we look at those numbers of studies and unbelievable numbers of people, where we look at risk factors, and we know that there are major risk factors that occur when you're deviating from this way of eating. And they, of course, involved, you know, high blood pressure, you know, various cardiometabolic markers, high cholesterol. Hot type 2 diabetes and the like. But the truth is, you distill it down, the single most important factor in all of these epidemiological studies is to just embrace a whole food plant exclusive diet as much as you can. Not about salt. It's not about just oil and extracted oils and salts and all of those things that sometimes can be a little bit confusing. So I try to get people to zero in on, you know, how are you going to be able to incorporate. Just more fresh fruits and vegetables into your lifespan, into your life, into your diet. How can you start getting rid of those processed things that may be demanding a lot of your attention and food dollar and start replacing them as quickly and as often as you can with things that are more wholesome? So trying to trying to simplify it a little bit is helpful. Now, the what's nice about retreats and centers that the different doctors have. Is that when people come, they get a kind of an immersion. And the immersion can be very helpful because sometimes when you're home, you know, you you've got a lot of distractions. So maybe you start something and then you get pulled away from that and then you encounter people that are telling you, Why do you want to do that? And you know, you're getting all of that stuff. So sometimes having an immersion can be really quite helpful. Stephan Esser MD: Ha ha. Frank Sabatino: Whether you go to somebody's retreat or you go online in somebody's program or whatever you do that way. So I would emphasize getting involved in some kind of community setting that supports changes that you really want to try to bring in. Whether that's an online community like the NHA has done that recently, which I think is fantastic. They've teamed up with True North. They created this community program where people can get on, be with like-minded people. The truth of the matter is connection and community is a really great motivating tool for being able to hold on to changes you're getting reinforcement by your peers, by people you live with and live around. But would say that you want to at least start with the dietary stuff for sure. Then you want to increase some physical movement in your life. What what what are you doing? Can you go out and take a walk thirty minutes three or four times a week? Let's start somewhere. ⁓ if you're dealing with major stresses, what are the things you can do to look at that? Are there things that you can let go of and change? Are there tools that you can do with prayer or meditation or in a community setting that can help you deal with some of those issues? So I try to go at the lifestyle pillars, know, in a consistent manner, and you're right, it can be overwhelming, but I try to emphasize the idea. That maybe starting out SOS free may not be the way you go. It may be that you just start off really incorporating more plants and whole foods in your diet. Let's start there. Let's start somewhere. And I think that'll kind of move you, can kind of move you forward. And the nice thing about this, as you know and we and we've seen, as you make those changes, your tastes change. So the things you thought were not going to be tasty now are the things that were tasty before no longer are. So things change, you know, your taste changes, your motivation changes. Once you start feeling a little better, you feel like, you know, that walk that was kind of a pain in the butt to get up and do every day. Now you look forward to doing. So you're kind of motivated to get out there and start doing it. So you got to plant a few seeds and then you start bringing that harvest to to to to root. You know, you you bring it in, you bring it home. And what happens is those things start to shift. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Frank Sabatino: I mean I very few people start out of the blocks perfectly on this lifestyle. I certainly didn't I grew up in an Italian household and you know we were eating everything and you know bottom line is I didn't know about, you know, the importance of movement or this so you started doing certain things and everybody finds their way on their journey and on their path. The nice thing now is You've got a lot of community, you've got a lot of people sharing these pieces, you've got a lot of stuff online. If you look at some of the good stuff, the right stuff, you can get motivated and get, you know, peaked into starting to make these small changes more consistently. And and you've got to be a little bit, you know, forgiving and and not beat yourself up a whole lot either. I like to tell people, you know, whenever you make a choice, there's always another one immediately lurking around the corner. So don't necessarily get lost in the last one you made, but the consequences of that choice to fashion what you do next. So if you did that and you're not feeling good and you're bloated and you feel terrible and you've got a headache and your blood pressure went up, you know that choice isn't working. Those choices are not working. So what is your goal? Sit down and actually write out if you have to. What am I trying to achieve? What do I want to accomplish in my life? And are the consequences of the choices you're making congruent with those outcomes? If they are, bless you, continue. If they're not, we have to put the big boy and big girl pants on because only we can really do it. You know, physicians, counselors can kind of lay it out, but there comes that point where it's really experiential and you have to really take a good look, you have to examine your life. Stephan Esser MD: Right. Frank Sabatino: You know, that old harsh line by Socrates, a life that's not examined is not worth living. It's a little bit harsh, but there's a reality to it. Because if you don't examine the consequences of your own actions, how are you going to take possession of those choices and those consequences? So we have a remarkable opportunity with every choice we make to see what it really doing in our lives. How do we feel? What does it mean? How does it affect ourselves, our relationships, what's actually going on? That's the dance of life, not that someone tells you to do something by rote and you say, you know, Dr. Essa told me to do this or Dr. Sabatino told me to do this. And you can go do that. But there comes a point where your experience has to dictate how you evolve your path through the consequences of your own actions. Stephan Esser MD: As always, whenever I hear you talk, I get inspired. I love it. So, you know, I I feel like our listeners out there, you I want you to re-watch and re-listen to that whole little commentary right there that Dr. Zabatino shared about kind of discovering right your purpose, your identity, the the value of what you're doing, examining your life, seeing if it's leading where you're wanting to go, making those healthy choices and decisions. And then also, you know, as you're moving forward in your health journey. ⁓ Considering to stay with Dr. Sabatino and his team, not to mention grabbing his book and spending some time learning and reading there. many good resources. And that's why I love being part of the NHA. I want to encourage all of you viewers out there to join the NHA as well. There's many resources, so much good education. Dr. Sabatino in the the you know, the kind of the the newsletter that he writes with tons of good science and inspiration and encouragement. You know, so so many awesome resources to help you to achieve your healthiest and most vital life. We're gonna have all of the links for Dr. Sabatino's information, his retreat, his books, et cetera, here in the the notes for this show. And I wanna encourage all of you to reach out, ⁓ you know, get his book, go spend some time in Deerfield Beach when you can with him, and just continue to make healthy choices. And ⁓ with that, I wanna just thank you, Dr. Sabatino, for joining and look forward to having you on again soon. Frank Sabatino: Thank you very much. Thank you. And thank you to all the audience that's gonna be listening to this. Thank you. Stephan Esser MD: All right, everybody, join us again for an NHH Day podcast soon. We'll look forward to sharing more information to help you achieve your healthiest life soon. Take care.