Latest / Breaking OWCP with Chris & Gini / Breaking Down OWCP Vocational Rehab & The Shadrick Formula

Transcript

Breaking Down OWCP Vocational Rehab & The Shadrick Formula · Breaking OWCP with Chris & Gini

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: So in the beginning, you were making$80,000.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't$100,000 you're making$80,000 when you got hurt.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so they'll say 80 times 60%, that's$48,000.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Then they subtract the$48,000 from the$80 that you were making, and they say that your adjusted wage loss is$32,000.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so you would think, oh, okay, so now I'm making$60,000 because my new job is$60,000, plus I can make the extra$32,000.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Not so fast.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because they complicate it and they say, we're also going to apply your dependent percentage to it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have a dependent, you know, an eligible dependent, then they they multiply that$32,000 wage loss adjustment by 75%.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have any dependents, then they multiply that wage loss adjustment by 66 and two-thirds.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so what would end up happening, and people are right now going, you jerk, too many numbers.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: I was about to say that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say that you have an eligible dependent and you're at 75%, right?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that would be your percentage for LWAP, too.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting paid and they take out the percentage based on numbers of dependents, right?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you're at the 75% number.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're making$60,000 in the new job.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: 75% of that$32,000 that was the adjusted wage loss.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Breaking OWCP Podcast.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Join Chris and Jeannie as they bring you expert advice on Federal Workers Comp, guiding you step by step to get back to work the right way.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's break down the barriers and get you the health you deserve.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to Wednesday night OWCP chats with Chris and Jeannie.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: That's the longest and so before we discuss what our topic is going to be so people can hop on.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we just want to do some little housekeeping, tell you what's been going on this week and what we were doing and who we saw.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: So the Bureau Prison has their national convention every year, just like all the other agencies have their unions.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like we know the rule carriers are in Texas right now.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: I might see you tomorrow.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: A shout-out to our rule carrier friends.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: We have APW in Los Angeles.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: A shout out to all of our APW friends.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so we ended today.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: We left Monday to go to Fort Lauderdale.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: So the Bureau of Prison had their national convention in Fort Lauderdale at the uh, what was it called?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Margaritaville Something Resort Beach Resort.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: Beach Resort in Hollywood.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Which is super cool.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't actually stay there, but next time I'm gonna stay there, that was really cool.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to go to a really fun resort where you really don't have to leave the grounds, the pool is there, the hot tub is there, there's all sorts of stuff for kids, and it has a ton of restaurants.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like fun restaurants, and it's it's positioned halfway between Fort Lauderdale and Miami.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: It took us just as long to get to Fort Lauderdale Beach as it did to Miami Beach, which is cool.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we got to see Mr.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Kelly, AFGE president.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: We actually waited just to make sure that we saw him.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: Got our book autographed.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: And got the book that he has out signed, and it was so it was so cute.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: He was with a bunch of prison guys taking pictures, and he as soon as he saw Chris and I, he's like, Genie Chris, as he's taking pictures with other people.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And he's clearly in high demand, so everyone wants a everyone wants a little piece of Mr.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Kelly.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so it was good seeing him.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he was actually in LA and he was with the APW.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_04: So him and Jonathan Smith, the national president for APW, kind of working together, have the same fight for their members.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so we hope it all goes well for.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's a powerful combo, too, having those two national presidents teaming up.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that concept.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_04: We got to see P.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: Tisch for District 5 AFGE.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to her, really good friend of ours.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we got to see Brandy, the national BOP president.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: She's all she's always so sweet, tells us thank you all the time when we go to these things.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: So we had a good, fun three days and shout out to Fernando and Mr.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_04: Rojas.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, these guys.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I was telling them that listen, I do OWCP, I'm very good at it, I love to do it, I'm passionate about it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I go to these events because my friends are there.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: The same reason I went to the Roll Carrier event years ago is because my friends were there.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: The reason I'll probably show up again tomorrow, uninvited, but invited by my friends, is because my friends are there and I'm gonna see them and it's a public place, and I can go there if I want.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And they want me to.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: But going to the BOP event is uh is a little different.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because the guys and and ladies that work for the prison system are under siege like nobody else.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you think you have it bad in your job, just know that every day these people go to their job and someone at work wants to murder them.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's true.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: And she means those words, not to be mean, but that's the exact true word.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_04: We heard that in one prison facility there were they were under attack, let's put it that way.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a dozen deaths in half that time number of years.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it was a really terrible thing.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, they fight for a living.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: And when I tell them, man, you guys fight for a living, nobody ever argues argues with that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some because someone is trying to hurt them all the time.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: But in spite of how hard of a person you have to be to work in that environment, these are the softest, nicest people that you can hang out with.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I don't mean soft like these are weak people, right?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: These are not weak people.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're not.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, the smallest among them could definitely kick my butt.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question about it.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: The smallest woman could for sure kick my butt.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like that one girl that was upset.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: She wasn't she didn't get tased.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: She was angry because they wouldn't let her get tased.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a it's just a different breed of person.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: She was smaller than me.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: But we have so much fun.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these guys they like cigars like I do, they like a bourbon like I do, and and they we can just hang out and talk.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they don't require me to talk workers comp.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have to be the work comp guy when I'm around my friends.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I can just be this guy, Chris, who loves these people.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I happen to do work comp just the way they happen to be prison officers.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they're not prison guards, they don't want to be called that, the prison officers.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, work comp is a real thing in all the agencies, but it's just a it's on a next level with uh with folks that work in the prisons.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's scary.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: It really does take a special kind of mentality to be able to work in a place like that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, it is.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: So one last thing.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: She's sharing right now.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's why she looks like she's not paying attention, but she's sharing.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you could do the same thing because I'm only able to teach people that are listening.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So let people know that we're here.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: You can hit the at sign and your friend's name in the comments, and then they'll get a notification.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can give somebody a call, a text message, let them know.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, go to Wednesday night OWCP chats with Chris and Jeannie with their live.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Tonight we're teaching um a topic that I have never taught before.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: And truthfully, before the ride home from Fort Lauderdale today, the four hours, I've never really studied it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's um OWCP vocational rehab.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an interesting topic.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: It does apply to some of you.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think more and more people are going to experience this moving forward.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: And as anything else related to OWCP, I want you to really have your eyes open and know what this is all about.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've learned it in a way that I can simplify it for you and help you understand what your rights are if it ever comes down to it that you have to do vocational rehab.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: So let's see who we have on tonight before we try to get everybody on before we start, because this is an important topic that you guys have requested.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, Amy, hello.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: Tenora.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_04: Hi from Portland Federal Injury Center's educator currently in Texas at the National Convention.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: How are you doing?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: Linda, hello guys.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Frank.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_04: Frank is always on.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: Frank.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: How are you, Frank?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Maria.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Maria said, shout out to the Springfield, Massachusetts out office.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's one of our new dedicated.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: Those shout outs go through the code.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Maria, have you been there?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been to that office?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: And the owner's name is Maria.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's super cool.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, all right, guys, get a piece of paper and a pen or a pencil.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: I don't even know if people use pencils anymore.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do use pencil, it's fine.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you gotta do.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't write in blood.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: You are going to want to write a lot of this information down tonight, especially because you guys have asked us, literally have begged us for about a month to have us do vocational rehab training.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: If any oh, if you guys are tagging your friends for them to watch this, make sure you do the at sign at and then so on your end, it should show up blue.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: Just like if you're making a post and you at something, it in your end, it should show up blue.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: On my end, it won't.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Norak's.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: Norak.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: Still one of my favorite names on here.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, we had a very busy three days.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just very interesting.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Look, it always is when I'm around my federal friends, but this one was particularly interesting.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this is more of a guy's one for Chris.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: We had uh two of our girls here, Jennifer and Emmy.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: If those of you that know them, they're our national case managers.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: So they're actually there right now in Fort Lauderdale.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: If you're somebody who has had a claim approved at federal injury centers, the doctor's office who got that claim approved was trained by Jennifer and Emmy.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: You would think, well, wait, not by you.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote all the training materials, but they're the ones that execute.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: They know this stuff better than most of the OWCP people in the federal world.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: They're freaking great.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: So if there's anybody in BOP that hasn't been by, we still have some stuff on the table.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Go get them.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, books there, go get them.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: Say hello to Emmy and Jennifer.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: And if you have an OWCP question, they are definitely the ones to ask because they will have the answers.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Boom.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: All right, let's get started.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm talking about vocational rehab.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I spent four hours, well, not the whole four, but at least two, two and a half hours reading all about it, trying to get it in my own brain so that I can give it to you in a really understandable way.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, hold on just a second.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: The battery's almost dead.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Take the charger too, turn the volume down.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so I was studying this thing, and and just like I've done everything else, and now I know this like by the you know, like the back of my hand.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So vocational rehab, a lot of people are have been telling us that they're getting told that they have to be evaluated, vocational rehab, and what the heck is happening here.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I found out is that it's mostly a good thing if it's somebody, if you're somebody this applies to.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you're required to do it, it's mostly good.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: The alternative to vocational rehab would be OPM FERS disability, where in the second year you're making 40% of your income.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can still get a non-federal job and make another 80%, but that 40% is a real hit.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in vocational rehab, what they've done is they've said, all right, you've done all the stuff that you can do.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're still out of work, you're not full duty.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't seem like there's any end in sight.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're gonna try to do is put you in a position to where you can get some other job.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And some other job doesn't have to be federal, it can be, it can be non-federal.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's I always make this joke that you know you can go work at Subway, or I would work at Subway.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: You could work at Subway, a private industry company.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And what it boils down to is you would get that job, and then there's this calculation called the Shadrick formula, S-H-A-D-R-I-C-K formula, where they calculate the amount of money you lost from your federal job to the new job, and they give you a piece of that back in addition to the income you're making in the new job.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So in federal disability, as an example, let's say you're somebody who makes$100,000 a year, which would be fantastic.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say that's you.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And in year one of federal disability, you're making$60,000 because you get 60% of your income.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: In year two, you're making$40,000 and you make that all the way to retirement as long as your annual evaluations show that you're still eligible for disability.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's$60,000 the first year,$40,000 every year thereafter instead of$100.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in this vocational rehab setting, let's say that they find out that your wage earning capacity is$60,000.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So your post-injury sort of disability situation, you can make$60,000, but before you were making$80,000.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then they look at it and they say, well, that$80,000 job, if it were done today, that job now pays$100,000.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now you got$100,000.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's your baseline.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the new job that you found is$60,000.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, shoot, now I'm lost$40,000.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's not fair.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, OWCP is not spelled F-A-I-R, so let's just always remember that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: But they say, okay, the federal job would be worth$100,000 a year now.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're making$60,000.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's we agree that's your wage earning capacity, right?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so they say, okay, well, that 60 is 60% of 100.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So what they would do is they say, well, take that 60% and apply it to what you were making in the beginning.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in the beginning, you were making$80,000.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't$100,000 you're making$80,000 when you got hurt.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so they'll say, 80 times 60%, that's$48,000.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Then they subtract the$48,000 from the$80,000 that you were making, and they say that your adjusted wage loss is$32,000.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so you would think, oh, okay, so now I'm making$60,000 because my new job is$60,000 plus I can make the extra$32,000.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not so fast.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because they complicate it and they say, we're also going to apply your dependent percentage to it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have a dependent, you know, an eligible dependent, then they they multiply that$32,000 wage loss adjustment by 75%.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have any dependents, then they multiply that wage loss adjustment by 66 and two-thirds.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so what would end up happening, and people are right now going, you jerk too many numbers.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was about to say that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say that you have an eligible dependent and you're at 75%, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that would be your percentage for LWAP, too.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're getting paid and they take out the percentage based on numbers of dependents, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you're at the 75% number.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're making$60,000 in the new job.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: 75% of that$32,000 that was the adjusted wage loss is$24.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So now you're making$84,000 in the new job.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: You were making 80 before, and now you're making 84.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is just an example.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: These numbers do obviously not necessarily apply to you.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how many dependents you have, I don't know how much you make, I don't know what your wage earning capacity is or what your job is worth today, regardless of what you were getting paid at injury.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying, and I'm gonna really simplify this, is that if you qualify for this program, you're gonna make the new income from the new job plus a percentage from the old income, and they're gonna add together.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's way better than federal disability, where 60% and 40%, except for in disability, you can make the other 80%.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So right now, people's heads should be spinning that don't do math.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because me, I'm just like taking this out of the air like I'm in the matrix, but I do math and I spent all day studying this.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: The easiest thing for you to remember is that if you are this person, you're gonna make the new salary from the new job plus a percentage of the old salary.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, which is actually a percentage of the difference of the old salary.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it can end up being more than what you're making before.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the other thing is let's say you go get a job outside of the federal government and it pays more than what you were paying before, you're probably not gonna get that difference because you're already making more.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: The point of this is to make up for your you know, your earning capacity, the difference in what you were getting paid before.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what this whole thing is about.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's like a couple of other wrinkles because you also get some of your benefits too, like health insurance.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: It says, uh, and I had to I have to read these notes, so forgive me.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: But the health insurance, if you're enrolled in FEHB health insurance at the time of injury, OPM says that enrollment continues while you're receiving compensation.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you can continue getting health insurance.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: For postal employees, same thing.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can usually continue getting it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you're eligible for dental envision, you can usually continue getting that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Life insurance, they call it a possibility.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you'll have to check with your union about that and your agency and see where you fall there.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: You always get your OWCP medical treatment no matter what.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're eligible for that for the rest of your life for anything that's medically necessary.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Most of your benefits you're still eligible for, and they have a situation set up to where you can get paid up to equal to, if not a little bit more, than what you're getting paid before.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what this is.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then they'll they basically take you into a training program, they help you with new skills, make sure that your job requirements match your doctor's um deficits that you put in the CA 17, and they find a job that matches that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's super complicated, and thank God there's claims examiners and nurse case managers and occupational health uh specialists that will walk you through this.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: What you have to know is you have rights, you don't have to accept every job, but you do have to accept jobs that you know you're qualified for.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but you should also not just say yes to everything because it's like any um limited duty offer.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: The job has to match what your doctor says you can do physically.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's really important.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we're still deferring to the doctor to determine what you actually can do.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna pause because surely we have questions.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Though those of you that are watching, we're talking about vocational rehab.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: If you just didn't catch us right at the beginning, vocational rehab, you guys requested this.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: Jerry, hello from the NRLCA National Convention.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: Missing you guys.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: Funny, right at the beginning, we gave you guys a shout out.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I am gonna do my very best, Jerry, to see you tomorrow.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: So keep in touch with Chris tomorrow, Jerry.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'll let you know when I land.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: He will let you know, and he may swing by just to give you a big hug and a kiss.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think I land around around seven o'clock.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, 6:45.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Somewhere around there.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: So you might see him late, maybe grab some dinner with Chris.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take an Uber over there and then from there I'll go to Denton and see my son.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Maria, only 45 minutes from here, a big difference from when I started the Norwood office.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: You're getting closer.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to Maria.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Bobby, so if I'm back to work and I'm on light duty, can I request vocational rehab?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting question, Bobby.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing in here about whether or not you can request it.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that makes me think the answer to can you request it is yes.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: I can't tell you they're going to honor it, but they might, because you know, the whole point of this is to get you back to work full duty as close to pa as close to full duty as possible based on your current medical restrictions.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think they're probably going to appreciate anybody that wants to get off of OWCP, which officially, not officially, but essentially that's what this is doing, is it's taking you off OW OWCP pay and putting you into another job plus a differential that they're paying, right?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so yeah, I think it's worth making the attempt if that's something you want to do.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I want to make sure everyone understands.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not teaching this because I think you all should do it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that I think vocational rehab is is good, even.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, I don't think it's either good nor bad.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: It just depends on your situation.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: But, Bobby, if you think that's something that might be good for you, I think it's worth asking the question.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you start by asking your claims examiner.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just put something in writing.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: Amy, can you run through again if you end up on disability, getting 40% and working outside the federal world?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Amy, I thought somebody would want to know about that.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're on OPM, that's Office of Personnel Management Disability, Federal Employee Retirement System FERS, what it says is if you qualify for that, which you have to medically qualify, so your doctor will have to write a really great narrative report, then in the first year on disability, you're eligible to make 60% of your previous federal job's salary.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: So if in the your federal job you're making$100,000 in your first year, then you're eligible to make$60,000.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, you can go get a job outside of the federal government and make up to 80% of that$100,000 at the same time.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: So technically, the first year you could make$140,000.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can make$80,000 over here in the federal job, I mean the non federal job plus your other 60.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: But by year two, that other 60 turns into 40.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so now you're making 120,000 up to that, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can only get paid up to 80% of your previous salary as a federal employee on federal disability.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: But they you are qualified and eligible to get both at the same time.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it does require annual medical exams to determine whether or not you're still disabled.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: No questions tonight on this when you guys begin to walk.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Most people's face just went blank.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what in the hell is he talking about?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: He keeps he's talking numbers.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's bottom line, what this program is.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, you can't do your federal job anymore, but we don't want you on disability.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: We'd like you to be able to do something.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: So let us help you get to a place where you can go work full-time someplace.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_04: She said, Got it, thanks.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: You're very welcome.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: What other questions?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: I know we're going to have more people watching the replay because half of the federal employees are there's three national conventions going on right now.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: So we're we know we're gonna get questions probably tomorrow.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So let me do this.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: I created, I sort of wrote up this one-minute example just for teaching purposes.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, much of this is what I've already said, but I'm gonna say it again because I numbered them steps one through ten.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: So just follow this in order.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's this fake person named Sam.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Sam is a federal employee, and Sam earned$80,000 a year when he was injured.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: At the date of injury, his salary was$80,000 a year.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And his injury got accepted because he went to federal injury centers and got an accepted claim.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: So Sam permanently cannot perform the old job.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say Sam's a letter carrier, and for the permanently, Sam cannot carry the mail anymore.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: He just can't do the 70-pound packages and the 35-pound satchel and the eight to 10 miles of walking and setting it in in the vehicle and the heat and the cold.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: He can't do it anymore.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So today, that$80,000 job when he was injured would actually pay$100,000 because some they don't stay the same.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: You make more years down the line.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: So when he was hurt, it was$80,000, but let's say a year or two later, now it's the job's worth$100.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Vocational rehab helped Sam qualify for a private job.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say at who cares where?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Pick a spot, okay?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Subway.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that job, Sam's able to make$60,000 at that job.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So OWCP determines that$60,000 represents Sam's earning capacity.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: They say, okay, we agree.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what Sam's able to make now,$60,000.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: He was making$80 before.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: The job now that he was doing before is worth$100, but he's only able to make$60,000.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's his earning capacity.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So under that Shadrick example, remember S-H-A-D-R-I-C-K, which is whatever the math formula is, it's probably named after somebody.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: In that example, that$60,000 that he's able to make and at Subway represents$60,000 of what he would be making if he still had that federal job at$100,000.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so that's 60%.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So 60% of Sam's original job of$80,000 is$48,000.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: So Sam's adjusted wage loss is$32,000.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Why$32,000?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well,$80,000 minus$48,000 is$32,000.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: So with an eligible dependent,$5% of that$32,000 is about$24,000.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: So in that example, Sam's making about$84,000 because he's getting$60,000 working a subway, and the government's giving him the other$24,000 in wage loss or wage earning capacity, but in the amount of money that he would have lost.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: So again, the downside is you're no longer a federal employee unless you see that as an upside, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: My assumption is when you got the job you wanted it, and then you got hurt and you didn't want to get hurt, but you did.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: But you can be on disability and that's rough, or you can go on this program and you can be making, in this example, 84,000 when before you're making 80.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's not fair because if I was in the old job, it'd be 100.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I get it, but these are the rules.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just making sure you understand the rules.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather it be based on 100 and not 80, but it's based on the 80.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's how they do it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully, and that was just a repeat, but hopefully that example, the way I described it there helps.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: Amy, she has a two-part question.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: If I get put in training for another federal job due to one case, but have a new case approved for a different body part, how does that work?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: Just thinking of all the possibilities, have feet approved, awaiting surgery, but now have my back case just approved to this week.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: All right, you have two accepted claims that happen on two different times, two different body parts.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: And on the first claim, you were approved for vocational rehab and got that other job.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what does that work?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_04: It says if I get put in training for another federal job due to one case, but have a new case approved for a different body part, how does that work?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Your OWCP claims, regardless if they're different or not, the restrictions from the doctor will have to apply to whatever job you're doing, even the new job.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you were a letter carrier and you became a clerk, right?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: The new job has different physical requirements, but your restrictions from both conditions, both accepted claims, still have to be applied because regardless, you can't do what you can't do.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: These are medical restrictions.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can have two different claims.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can, on one claim, get a different job.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: In that different job, you can get the you know, the pay adjustment, the 80% or the 60%, you can get all of that.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: In the second injury, you can always get the medical, but you may not necessarily get the OWCP payments because you're not going to get double paid from the federal government.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_04: Did you understand that, Amy?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can always get help medically, but you're only going to get paid one way by the federal government.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: They won't pay you twice.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be working one job and get OWCP payments for the other job that you're no longer working.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's just how that works.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that answered it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's super complicated, but it was a fantastic question.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Melissa, would any of this have to go through the occupational health processing specialists with USPS?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: They're definitely part of the team.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I actually wrote this down.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Give me a second.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I let me find what I wrote.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think this is really important.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: These are great questions, guys.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, they were really ready for this one.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right, don't ask the next question yet.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, there's nothing.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because I made this note on purpose because I thought that might get asked.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Amy, good job.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_04: Glad you got it.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna start at the top.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's no big deal.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just made 10 pages of notes.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, who's involved?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: You, the injured employee.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: The treating doctor, because the treating doctor establishes your restrictions.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: The claims examiner, because the claims examiner is like the quarterback, they're running things.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: The OWCP rehab specialist is who gets involved in this program.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Your vocational rehab counselor and your agency.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, somebody in your agency is in the team.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I use team very lightly and heavy on the air quotes because we're talking about people in your agency that are like management.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: What other questions?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's it so far.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me say this.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: If everyone's done after 30 minutes, I got no problem.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I gave you the one-minute example.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna give you 10 roles.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love lists.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, I'm gonna neurotic about lists.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: The first list that I just read you had exactly 10 things.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: The second one has 10 things.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: If a list has eight or nine things, I think there's something wrong with the list.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And if their list has 11 or 12 things, I'll think maybe some of those things don't belong because lists should just have 10.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You could have five.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't like 15 point lists, because if it's 15, it's probably 20.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: So let's do better.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: This one's 10.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: Alrighty, here we go, guys.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_04: Write these down.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, do not ignore vocational rehab because when it's your time, it's your time.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Attend appointments and communicate with the rehab counselor.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta cooperate.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's very, very important.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't cooperate, you're losing benefits.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the stuff you could lose, you can't afford to lose.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just cooperate.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Cooperate.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: Keep your treating doctor involved because the treating doctor is key to this because your restrictions matter and you don't want to accept a job that's not safe.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very important.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Number four, make sure medical restrictions are specific.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Specific meaning it's not just enough to say limited duty.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can only lift 10 pounds, you can only set for two hours, you can only walk for three miles, so on and so forth.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: They need to be specific, exactly like the CA 17 is designed to do.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Specific restrictions.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do not casually refuse a job.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Nah, I don't feel like it.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do that job.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: Don't do that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get to do that.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's not the system.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Look, you can do that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: You absolutely can reject everything and be on your own and go work at Subway for 100% of what they pay you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: But financially, it's probably not in your best interest.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it's a personal decision.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I recommend don't just casually refuse it because I don't want to do that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's also not good to not be able to pay bills.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it sucks you got hurt, and I hate that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I always tell people, you know, you come to me when you need something, and what you need is something I never want you to need.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want you to need medical attention for a work injury.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: I hate that.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: But someone's got to do it, and so we do it well.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: But don't casually refuse a job.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: You should always challenge medically inappropriate work with medical evidence, not silence.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you think the job they're trying to get you to do is going to get you hurt, go to the doctor.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do number three, keep your treating doctor involved, and do number four, make sure medical restrictions are specific.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Seven, keep your records of every job application and employer contact.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Keep records of everything that you've tried to do on your end to get employment.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Eight, pay attention when specific occupations and wage amounts are identified.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's really important because what you're gonna get paid is gonna be a combination of the new jobs paid and the difference in what you're gonna get paid in the old job times your 75 or your 66 and a third percent.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very important.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Nine, understand that a lower paying job may still allow partial OWCP compensation.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, oh man, I can't take this job at Subway.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm only gonna make 60,000 a year, which by the way, if someone at Subway makes 60,000 a year, that's a good job.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: It is, actually.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_04: But I don't think that happens.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: But just always know that just because it's a lower-paying job is not necessarily gonna hurt you financially because they have that whole system with the guy's last name, the Shadrick example, that gets you the, you know, the additional pay that could take you over what you were making before.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And number 10, before separating from federal service, understand exactly what will happen to health insurance, life insurance, retirements, and benefits.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I gave you sort of a loose rundown of what could happen, but you got to really communicate with your union, your agency, and find out how this is gonna apply with you, your claims examiner, your rehab specialist, everybody on that team.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, hey, so what am I still eligible for?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: What do I still get to keep?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: How do I keep it?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do I pay for it?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: How's this whole thing work?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're eligible for this stuff.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Don't just walk away and leave it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Take everything that you're eligible for.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: What other questions?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Rob Rio said, try to make me go to rehab.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: I said no, no.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not that kind of rehab.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: Not that kind of rehab, Rob.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_04: Jack, anything past 10 isn't bonus.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: Because you said anything past 10.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, there's no bonus numbers in a list, Jack.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Lists need to be exact.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: 10, 20, 15's weird.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, 25 is actually a good list.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that is.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can have a 25-point list.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love 25-point lists.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Five is okay, 10 is okay.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: 15 is weird, 20 and 25 are okay.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're going above 25, this thing's too complicated.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: You need to break it down into volumes with a lot better detail, but put it in like eighth grade or fourth grade terminology.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Don't screw this up.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Amy, do you give, do they give you advanced notice if they're gonna give you vocational training, or is this automatic if you max at recovery?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're gonna give you notices in writing.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Always open your mouth.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna get notices in writing.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna let you know what's going on.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna let you know what your rights are.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the letters are very detailed and thorough, so just pay attention to those.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's a number one thing we tell you guys from day one.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_04: Every letter from Department of Labor, keep it.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: Make a copy, give it to the doctor, or have the doctor's office make a copy.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: They need all these records.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: Maria, just asking, if you get a request for a second opinion appointment, but it does not have the correct claim number outside of alerting them to this, could one possibly be evaluated for a claim that's not even open now without realizing?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, just ask that whole thing again.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: If you get a request for a second opinion appointment, but it does not have the correct claim number, outside of alerting them about this, could one possibly be evaluated for a claim that's not even open now without realizing?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I would never, ever do anything without them having the proper nine-digit claim number.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Super important because number one, let's not have someone else's claim number.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's not going to work out for you if you've got a knee problem and you're doing a second opinion visit for somebody that's got a shoulder, right?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: So let's make sure we've got that right.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely make sure that the second opinion doctor has your correct claim number.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just don't ever let it go.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: That those errors can be really, really dangerous for you.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not physically dangerous, but it can really mess you up, paperwork-wise, financial wise.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like you got a second opinion doctor that's saying your shoulder's fine, go back to work full duty.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, dude, it's my knee.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: You have the wrong claim number.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really important.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: But do pay attention to those things.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's a good question.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: That's an answer.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, Nina, at what point is vocational rehab offered?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_04: Great question.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, in one sentence, and I knew somebody was going to ask me this, and this answer is not sarcastic.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's vague because that's how it goes.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: If your accepted OWCP injury prevents you from returning to your old job, OWCP may help you return to different work and then determine how much earning ability the injury took away.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a time frame for this.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's when they think you're not coming back.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And whatever that is.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we how do you avoid it then?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, your doctor can write up a medical narrative that has a prognosis saying we think you're going to be back in six months.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can continually make progress to get back to the old job.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe your restrictions get lesser and lesser each time a new CA 17 is done.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so the claims examiner says, oh, this person's getting better and better, and they're able to do more and more things.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to too many people is you don't really communicate with your doctor, and or your doctor just doesn't understand workers' comp, that the whole point of it is to get you back to work.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then a result of those one, you know, one or both of those things, someone will just like stay home and not go to therapy.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not try to get better and think, well, they're just paying me.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on the rolls, I'm just getting paid anyways.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that big of a deal until you know a year passes, unless you're a role career and it's two and they want to take your job away.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then they're and then for sure it's vocational rehab time.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it happens when it happens, but the the instigator of it is somebody on the team gets this idea that you're never coming back.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: So make progress.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not always possible.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, sometimes these things are catastrophic, clearly.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't matter how much progress you make, you're not getting back.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the more they can see that you're gonna be back and you're making every effort to come back, the less likely it is this is gonna happen.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no way to ensure that it won't happen because it still can.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: But what can you do is make every effort possible to get back.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And as I always say, and I'm a broken record, the surest way to get paid is to clock in.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a heck of a lot easier to just clock in and get paid than to fill out a CA7 for LWAP, or to have to go on disability and by year two, 40% plus the other 80%, up to 80%, but maybe not 80%, maybe it's just 50.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't sound good.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's also better being on the clock, getting paid 100% of your salary, than having to go through this process and this shed wick or whatever formula on how we determine how much I'm gonna get paid.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, holy cow, those are complicated things.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: The least complicated thing you can do is get better and get back on the clock.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: But these systems are out there for those of you that can't.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: Sean Dill, America's OWCP power couple.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_04: Rob says 3.5 is on my list.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_04: Three point Rob.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: Rob, we missed you yesterday at Mango's in Miami.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you should have been there.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: Ed, this is a good question.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: My question is a little off topic.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm having trouble contacting and getting approved to be seen by a doctor from my caseworker.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: I've given them all the documents they've sent in the mail, and I'm still getting the runaround.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_04: I have not been paid either, and my caseworker told me it's the last thing I need to worry about.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: Is there another route or others I can talk to?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Wait a minute.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: Did I hear this right?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: That the caseworker, the nurse case manager, sent him to a doctor and he can't get a hold of the doctor.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Read that again.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is that what's happening?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm getting I'm having trouble contacting and getting approved to be seen by a doctor from my caseworker.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: I've given them all the documents they've sent in the mail, and I'm still getting the runaround.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: I have not been paid either.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: And my caseworker told me it's the last thing I need to worry about.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Is there another route?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: The caseworker said you're not getting paid is the last thing you need to worry about.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: All right, tell the caseworker to feel free and donate her paycheck.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's just nonsense.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_04: Number one, Ed, your claim has to be approved in order to start getting paid.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so let's make sure the claim is approved.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just assume that's the issue.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, claims have to be approved, diagnosis has to be at the level so that you can be paid to be off of work.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: But the issue here is he's been sent to this other doctor who's non-responsive.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So contact your claims examiner, copy your caseworker, nurse case manager, and say, in nicer terms than this, what the hell's going on here?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Can you find a doc that will respond?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if you have any more questions, Ed, after the chat, go ahead and go to the message for messenger on the Wednesday night chats and then message me.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_04: Let me see if we can see what else is going on because I I can tell this is a little confusing for you, and it can be.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and also um we can probably get more detail with you when it's privately.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can give me a lot more information that I can help you with.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: Tenora said, Ed, I called my district caseworker and said, I'm gonna lose my house, help.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I was paid within two weeks.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: She jumped in and helped.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the other thing is, and that was a great uh answer because communication does help.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: So don't just sit back and think everybody's knows and they're only thinking about you.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: They probably have a big caseload.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you can also copy your congresspeople on these letters too.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Someone says that you getting paid is the least of your worries right now.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like right up there at the top.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I say this all the time: the pain of the system should not be worse than the injury itself.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when you're not getting paid, would you agree the pain of the system is pretty damn bad?
• 42:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're not getting paid, lots of other bad things happen.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if someone's not being responsive, let's get someone who will make them do it.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like nearly 100% of the time, when someone contacts a congressperson, things start happening.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: People start moving fast.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's sad.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because the OWCP district people don't want to deal with Congress because they're like, wait, do I look incompetent or am I incompetent?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: Sean Dill, Jack says we should all go to the Giants game.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so I've got friends in the chat too.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've got all kinds of friends in the chat, not just federal employees, but we're all over the map.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: You'll all get to know Sean a lot better later on.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, months to come.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: Amy J, I'm a rule carrier getting to my two-year mark this November, awaiting surgery on both feet.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: Recovering takes two months per foot.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: Will they put me in for vocational training because not back to work by the two years?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, it's not a guarantee that they're gonna do it.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: What they're saying is if it just looks like you're never coming back, then that's probably the route we're gonna take.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're having surgery, then the doctors think that surgery is gonna help.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so after postoperative care, whatever that you know involves, then there's a chance you're gonna get back at some level.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I wouldn't think necessarily it's gonna automatically get you to vocational rehab.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: But remember, one of the things on my 10-point list is communicate.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Communicate with the doctor, with all with everybody on the team.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let them know look, not only am I trying to get back, I want to get back.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm doing everything I can to get back.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm even having surgery.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, bear with me.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you have unions that are very often strong.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so get um get help from the unions.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: I said very often, I didn't say always.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: So don't come back over the top of me and say, uh uh, not mine.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know, not all of Them, but many of them, the vast majority of them, can help you with this.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: So stay in contact with your union too.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I should have had the union on the list of the team.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it should be at the top of the list, actually, because unions are really powerful.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Your stewards, when they're really good stewards, they can move mountains for you.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: Ed said, I need an MRI to be further diagnosed, but I cannot get approved by the caseworker to be seen further.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: They said I need more information.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: Ed, seriously, after the chat, message me.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you can get MRIs different ways.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not going to tell you that I like any of this that I'm about to tell you.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: One, you can ask the MRI place what the cash price is.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like that.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to pay cash for my MRIs.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I get MRIs a lot, trust me.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to pay for them.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: But it's an option.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Two, your health insurance may pay for it.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if your doctor writes you a screen for it.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: If later on they want to, the health insurance wants to deal with OWCP to settle up, they'll do that on their on the back end.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to worry about it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you could ask for a referral for a health for a an MRI using your health insurance.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so those are two other things you can do.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing is you can do is what federal injury centers doctors do, is your doctor can talk to his or her friends who own imaging centers and say, hey, can you do me a favor?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Do the MRI on this person.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as it all gets approved, I'll give you the number and you'll get paid too.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something we can help you with when you message us.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I just gave you three other ways to get an MRI.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Setting and waiting at a red light that never turns green is not an option that I teach.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: We don't set at red lights, we run them.
• 45:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: I just gave you three different ways to run the red light.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: Our offices, they work with the MRI companies, and the doctors that you see as you're treating DOL doctor will send you out if you need an MRI.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: They don't really wait for claims examiners.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: And just tell me where you're located.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: Put that in the chat here.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Put that in the message privately.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, right now in the chat.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me your city and state.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_04: Becky, my treating physician, advised she would no longer be seeing me, no longer taking OWCP patients.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: She handed me off to another physician in the clinic.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: I alerted OWCP of the change, not my fault.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: I received a notice.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: My change in physician was denied.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: What the heck?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_04: Administrative change beyond me.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: This one's it's actually an easy solution.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Find who you want to see and ask the old doctor to write a referral.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: The old doctor can stay the treating doctor and have no responsibility whatsoever.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: So write a referral.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: All referrals are honored.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: So just get a referral.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_04: Tenora said same clinic.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: I was told didn't need to alert them or do anything because same clinic.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, because you got passed from one physician to the next because this one didn't take the other.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it didn't work that way.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can understand why a medical clinic would think that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because hey, all the doctors are employed in the under the same roof.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's not how OWCP works.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can request a change of treating doctor or you can request a referral from your treating doctor.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_04: To pass you off.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_04: So we talked about vocational rehab.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_04: What other questions you guys wanted us to talk about this so bad?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I know a lot of you, again, we know the ruler carriers, APW, BOP, all you guys are doing your national conventions.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: So we know after I'm gonna get a lot of messages after when the replay hits.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's see.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: I have some things.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote one, two, three, four, five.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: A list of five.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_04: Rob, he wrote a list of five, not 3.5.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: Five is okay.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, five is okay.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: 15's not.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Seven is bad.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_04: Jack, five.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: These are five common myths about vocational rehab.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Myth number one.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: If I take a private job, OWCP automatically stops.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wrong.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: OWCP medical benefits go on for the rest of your life once your claim's accepted.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's number one.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there's that wage earning capacity difference, okay?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that's an OWCP payment that kicks in with the other other job, the new job.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Myth number two if the new job pays$20,000 less, OW simp OWCP simply pays the missing$20,000.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: They don't.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's a crazy math formula where they decide how much the additional is, and it's usually not the total difference of what you were getting paid to what you're now getting paid.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so there's a math formula, it's not just the difference.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, number three, we didn't really talk about this, but this one's interesting.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: If I never actually get hired, OWCP cannot reduce my compensation.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't work for the federal government anymore, and you never got that job at Subway.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: OWCP instead is very likely just to determine, maybe even randomly, arbitrarily, what your wage earning capacity would be if you found a job.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so now they're gonna say, well, we think if you found a job, you'd make 50 grand.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the difference between 50 and your other job is this, and the multiplied times your 75 or 67% is this.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: And here's what we're gonna pay you.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna pay you$22,000.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you find that other job so to put this$22,000 with.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Holy cow, they can really screw you over good.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: So you gotta really try to find a job that's important because you need some money over here to add the OWCP payment to.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you're stuck with something worse than federal disability.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh number four, a private job means I lose every federal benefit.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, many of your benefits can continue, but you got to talk about with your team, including your union, which of those are and how you make those continue.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't automatically lose them.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Many of them can come with you.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: And number five, if my doctor says I cannot do my old job, I am totally disabled from every job.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: False.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you can't carry the mail doesn't mean you can't make sandwiches, is the point.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not disabled from every job.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're just disabled from that job.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what vocational rehab is for.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_04: You always go back to sandwich making.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: I like sandwiches.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: I had a sandwich today.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: In Naples, we stopped off in Naples, Sean, at a really great hoagie spot.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's like exit what, 107?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: 107.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: Exit 107, a really great hoagie spot.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I highly recommend it.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: Ivy says hi.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Ma.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh even my mother-in-law's here.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: See, everyone's got our support.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: Legal justification says, hello.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: Do you both know about federal comp?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're doing.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: Medical authorization questions.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_04: Go ahead, put your question down.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_04: We will help you.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: I can definitely help you with that.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_04: Amy says, I have my back case approved last week.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm approaching my two-year mark this November, hence losing my route, role carrier.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: Do I get extended time to go back to my route?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're not necessarily automatically losing your route.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, just keep that in mind.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's time now to start communicating about what comes next.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're almost to two years as a role carrier.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone else, you're one, okay?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: Roll carriers you're two.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: So start communicating with it because if there's a chance you're gonna come back, they have the option to give you another six months.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Say, well, let's see what happens in the next six months.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if you keep making progress, they have the option to give you another six months and another before they just take it away.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not automatic that you're gonna lose it in two years, but you can't just ignore it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's good that you're aware of this.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: And go start communicating.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Start with your union.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: She said, feet is my first case.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh walking is probably tough for you, even standing.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, I get it.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: He has a hard time doing all of that.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just old.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm older than I am.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: My body's older than my age.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: Jack says box sweets.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm over here talking vocational rehab, and Jack's trying to get me to go to a Giants game.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think he wants me to get beat up since I'm a Cowboys fan.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_04: What other questions do you have?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: Now, if you have like a personal question that's private to you.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_04: Private, and you don't want everybody to see this because what you put on here, everybody can see it.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: Just go ahead when the chat is over, go to the messenger, click the messenger, go ahead and write what you need to.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_04: I want you guys to know this.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_04: When you're messaging me, if you guys can, please include your phone number.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: That way we can have somebody give you a call.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna shoot off a couple of um United States codes for you to look up if anybody wants them.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: If someone can maybe type these.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_04: I could I'll do it.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Can you type them into the comment?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right, she's gonna post these on here, but I'm gonna tell them to you.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 5USC.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're both 5USC and 8115.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: 5USC, 8104, and 8115.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: 8104 is vocational rehab, 8115 is determination of wage earning capacity.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Those are two laws that I think are gonna be really important to you, so go check those out.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: What's the other one?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: 8104 and 8115.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but one was vocational rehab.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: What was the other?
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_02: Determination of wage earning capacity.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's simple.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_02: You can just go to Google and go 5USC 8104.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or you can go to ChatGPT and say, tell me what 5USC 8104 is and how it applies to me.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: And tell them what your situation is.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Tell them.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Tell your chat GPT what it is, and they'll help you with it too.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not familiar with using chat, it's worth it and it's free.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: So check out 5USC 8104 and 5USC 8115.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: I just pinned that in the comment below so you guys can take those.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_04: So the first 8104 goes with vocational rehab and eight 8115 goes with determination of wage earning capacity.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, look, if you're out there and you're one of those people that's saying, Wow, Chris, you're so thorough.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: You put it in terms that are so easy to understand, and then you give me the law that I can look at.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's really impressive.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, is what I want to say to you.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, Juan, Juan said, Great advice from my favorite America's OWCP couple.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for what you do.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: Juan, happy birthday.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone, yesterday was Juan's birthday.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone, yes, give Juan Cosme a giant, warm, affectionate tongue-kissing of a happy birthday.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_04: We hope you had a really good one, Juan, and we can't wait to see you soon.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: Juan is with the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: We love him.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: So, any other questions before we end the chat?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, about any topic.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you, we have six minutes more.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll even give you seven, which is weird.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you ten minutes more.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: So, you guys, uh if you missed the beginning, we just drove back from Fort Lauderdale.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we were with the Bureau of Prison at the National Convention.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we got to see Mr.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: Kelly, the AFGE national president.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_04: We got to see Brandy, the BOP national president for BOP, and then we got to see Tish, NVP for District 5.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: And our boys from O'Cala.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we just a ton of friends.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_04: And two of our case managers, the best ones out there in the world.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they're there and they'll be there till tomorrow.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_04: So if you guys want to one run by, go by, say hello.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: We left books and pens and all sorts of fun stuff.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_04: So go by, say hi to Emmy and Jennifer.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: And again, we want to say we're sorry we couldn't be at the Rule Carrier National Convention in Texas.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: Chris is going to connect with Jerry tomorrow when he lands or tonight and figure out how he can come by and say hello to all the rule carrier friends and to all of our APW friends in Los Angeles.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: We wish we could be there, but we are not there.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm thinking when I get to the Gaylord tomorrow in Grapevine, Texas, at the National Rural Letter Carriers Association National Convention, that I'll probably just go to that giant sports bar they have down there and just hang out because I'm gonna have to wait on an Uber anyways.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: So Chris is not going to Texas because of the Rural Cara Convention.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's fantasy football season.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: He does this every year.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: Every year he goes to Texas with his friends and one of our sons and does this fantasy football.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: So it just happened to be at the same time.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_04: And this is a good thing.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the gaylord is right next to the airport.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Look, why am I explaining myself?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can go to a damn hotel if I want to.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go to the hotel.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if I have friends there, I'll probably talk to them.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Juan, just to let you know, on the other Facebook page, Wednesday night OWCP chats with Chris and Jeannie.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_04: Linda said happy birthday Juan and Amy J said Happy Birthday Juan.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: Happy birthday Juan.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_04: All right, Tenora said, I've shared federal injury centers to many here at the NRLCA National Convention.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_04: Some offices should expect a few new people.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_04: Ha ha.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: If it helps, I'm glad we're able to help.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: Tenora, if uh if you can find Jerry, she will let you know if Chris is going to be there or not and where he will be.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: You do know where you're gonna be.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if if I'm able to go, yeah, I know exactly.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be down on the sports bar.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone knows bar.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been to the Gaylord for even half an hour, you know what the sports bar is.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: Tenora, yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_04: I spoke with Jerry today and she told me that next week we get a new national president, so maybe they will change their minds.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: We hope so.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_04: And for you guys, we hope so.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I hope so too.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have one of the greatest things that could happen would be that I could renew my friendship with the NRLCA.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: I would love that.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because we created so many good friends throughout the country from rural carers, and all we've done, yeah, it's a song.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: All we do is win, you know, and um and it's fun to do so.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna tell a couple of stories.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, just one.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh boy.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I was talking to um Jeremy, who's the OWCP guy who's one of the most capable OWCP guys I know in the federal world, besides me.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's really, really good.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: And when he and I talk, we just have like straight up OWCP talks, and it's it's nice to be able to have a conversation with someone who speaks the language.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, he was telling me about a case that um he sent over to one of my offices, and I don't even know what city it does.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even need to know, it doesn't matter, they're all the same.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he sends it over there, they write up a great narrative report, it goes into the claims examiner, and the claims examiner reports back that, well, this is federal injury centers, and all they do is specialize in getting claims approved.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Look, even the claims examiners that don't like us, they know.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's they even they know.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: All they do is get claims approved over there.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not all we do.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: We have a 93% return to work rate, okay, which is pretty fantastic.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so people also go back to work, and who else educates like this?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, claims examiners, just to let you know, our doctors get trained so well, like three months of training.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_04: So if you think about that, and that's the one thing they have to do is write a narrative report, they know exactly what they have to do.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_04: There's no cheating, there's nothing they're reading.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're true reports.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's real, it's it's actually what happened.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: They just know how to write the reports.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's I'd say it's not rocket science, but it is.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if it wasn't rocket science and everyone could do it, then you wouldn't care that we're doing it.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know what happens is we we teach claims examiners too.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_04: We teach the OWCP DOL people too.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_04: So the ones that are saying this has never been to our training.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_04: And if they did, I can't remember the one girl that was sitting in the back.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_04: They'd be totally on board.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_04: They would be like, oh wow, because we know the top girl, she was in the class, and when Chris was training, she was like, Yep, he's right.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, she was giving her input about what he's saying because what he was saying is absolutely correct.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like she was like friends with me or anything.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just she didn't even know that we, I think they knew we were coming to train, but they didn't know what to expect.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_04: They had no clue.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_04: I love talking to claim examiners.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_04: Amy, if the post office gives light duty job with less hours, do they also do the vocational training later?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_04: One girl at the office works eight hours a week, also a role carrier.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, if you're not in vocational rehab and you're just, you know, your restrictions are eight hours a week, then you're gonna get LWAP for the other 32 or whatever your your regular schedule is.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're just filling out a CA7 for LWAP on that one.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: Any other questions?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Amy, you win the prize for the best questions of the night.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Every single one of your questions were gold.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: Please keep coming back and keep bringing those questions.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: Those are awesome.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_04: All right, everybody.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we're gonna go ahead and end tonight's chat.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: Right on time.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_04: We know that this was a huge one, and we understand a lot of you, half of you federal employees, are at national conventions this week, but the chats will be up uh for the next 30 days.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_04: And again, you can go to YouTube.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_04: Go to YouTube.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_04: They always stay on there.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_04: All of our chats from 2016 is on there, so you'll see how we've grown through the last 10, 11 years.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_04: And uh can't wait to tell you what's coming soon, guys.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_04: So we're looking forward to that.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: If there are any topics that you guys don't understand and want us to train about, just drop it in the comment and I'll take a look at it tomorrow and we'll start figuring out what we're talking about.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: And we really do that.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: This this topic was asked by many people, and then I spent my day learning everything about it, and here we are.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: So give me another topic.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't know about it, I will and I'll teach it to you.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_04: Amy said, Thank you.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a question asker.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry to hog up the question time.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_04: No, this is what we like.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_04: We love it, Amy.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_04: This is why we're here to answer your questions and train you guys to make you understand each and everything about when you get injured on the job and what comes after that.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: So tell all your friends to come here next week.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Same bet time, same bet channel.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_04: Good night, Frank, Linda.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: See you guys next week.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: Good night.