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IT NEVER ENDS! Scott Peterson to Walk Free? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Why won't he go away?
0:17
Speaker 1: Can I put it any more simply than that he
0:22
Speaker 1: has an affair, you don't get the death penalty for that.
0:26
Speaker 1: It becomes a public affair. With his hands stuck on
0:29
Speaker 1: Amber Fry's rear end at a Christmas party. Then his
0:34
Speaker 1: wife Lacy goes missing, nine months pregnant with their first child, Connor.
0:41
Speaker 1: She turns up dead in the San Francisco Bay, his
0:45
Speaker 1: fishing hole, where he says he was fishing on a
0:49
Speaker 1: cold and rainy day just before Christmas, the day she
0:53
Speaker 1: goes missing. What a coinkie inc Believe it or not.
0:58
Speaker 1: Once again, the Scott Peterson murder conviction is in peril.
1:05
Speaker 1: And yes, I know there's been a lot of mockumentaries
1:08
Speaker 1: about Scott Peterson suggesting he's innocent. That's to get ratings.
1:15
Speaker 1: That's not true. I was there every single day of
1:19
Speaker 1: the trial. I heard all the testimony, and I agree
1:24
Speaker 1: with a jury he did it. He did it. And
1:29
Speaker 1: now after he has been excused from the death penalty,
1:35
Speaker 1: now is there a chance he's not even going to
1:38
Speaker 1: do the rest of his life sentence? Is this really happening?
1:42
Speaker 1: I don't know if you. I had to read these
1:45
Speaker 1: because my son was into gosh, was it Superman or Batman?
1:49
Speaker 1: There was a place called bizarre Land where everything was
1:52
Speaker 1: in reverse. I feel like I'm in bizarre Land. I
1:57
Speaker 1: can't believe it. Nine months pregnant, first child, dead, body,
2:07
Speaker 1: weighted down and thrown into the dark, cold waters of
2:13
Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay. Then weeks weeks, weeks past, and
2:19
Speaker 1: I remember when it happened, like it was yesterday. A
2:22
Speaker 1: baby washes ashore and it's pristine. It looks like a shiny,
2:30
Speaker 1: little plastic baby doll. Why after all that time in
2:36
Speaker 1: the water, because even in death, Lacy Peterson's uterus one
2:46
Speaker 1: of the strongest, I guess you would say muscles in
2:49
Speaker 1: the body protected the baby, and as her body decomposed,
2:58
Speaker 1: finally the unus decomposed and baby Connor floated out. I
3:05
Speaker 1: remember I was there. I was on the very back
3:10
Speaker 1: seat in the courtroom because I had been working out
3:13
Speaker 1: front of the courthouse. I ran in just in time.
3:16
Speaker 1: I was the last one in the courtroom, I'm embarrassed
3:18
Speaker 1: to say. And I had to sit all the way
3:21
Speaker 1: in the back, and I had to sit on top
3:23
Speaker 1: of my backpack so I could see up to the front.
3:26
Speaker 1: When Lacy's mother, Sharon Roacha, took the stand and she
3:32
Speaker 1: described burying Lacy. It was just bones at that point
3:40
Speaker 1: and in her arms. She buried baby Connor in one casket.
3:51
Speaker 1: That's something you never forget, you know, those moments in life,
3:55
Speaker 1: you just never forget, the good and the bad moments.
3:57
Speaker 1: That's one of the moments I'll never forget. And now
4:01
Speaker 1: because of alleged your arm misconduct, there could be a
4:06
Speaker 1: new trial or potentially he walks free on time served.
4:13
Speaker 1: I mean, as he grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
4:16
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation in
4:19
Speaker 1: serious XM one eleven, where we have not forgotten Lacy
4:24
Speaker 1: and Connor. And it will be a cold day in
4:27
Speaker 1: heblel that I ever do. First of all, take a
4:33
Speaker 1: listen to our friend Glenn Walker KTLA. Following a reprieve
4:37
Speaker 1: from the death penalty, Scott Peterson has been re sentenced
4:39
Speaker 1: to life in prison. Peterson appeared in a sam Mateo
4:43
Speaker 1: courtroom this morning. His lawyer says Peterson wanted to speak,
4:47
Speaker 1: but the judge would not allow it. It's been nearly
4:50
Speaker 1: seventeen years since Peterson killed his pregnant wife Lacy and
4:53
Speaker 1: their unborn child. He was sent us to death in
4:56
Speaker 1: March of two thousand and five. The State Supreme Court
4:59
Speaker 1: overturned that sentence in twenty twenty, ruling the jury was
5:03
Speaker 1: improperly screened for bias against the death penalty. I judge
5:06
Speaker 1: is now deciding whether he will be granted a new trial.
5:10
Speaker 1: He is expected to issue a ruling sometime next year. MMMM. Now,
5:15
Speaker 1: as much as I don't like it, I understand why
5:19
Speaker 1: that happened. It happened because certain jurars were not questioned
5:26
Speaker 1: individually and further questioned about whether they had a bias
5:33
Speaker 1: for or against the death penalty. You have to do
5:36
Speaker 1: that in a death penalty case. It's just really that simple.
5:38
Speaker 1: With me and I'll star penalty. Make sense of what
5:40
Speaker 1: we know right now is Scott Peterson. Yet again, it's
5:43
Speaker 1: like a roller coaster when you go over the very
5:46
Speaker 1: top hill and you fly down and then all of
5:50
Speaker 1: a sudden, there's another one. There's another one. That's what
5:53
Speaker 1: it feels like with a Scott Peterson conviction. Here's another one.
5:57
Speaker 1: Jill Carson is with me, high profile lawyer joining us
6:01
Speaker 1: out of Jacksonville. Former FBI agent, author of arrest proof yourself,
6:06
Speaker 1: and you can find him at del Carson Law dot com.
6:09
Speaker 1: We're now psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. Karen Start
6:12
Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. Karen with a C. Greg Smith,
6:16
Speaker 1: Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County, Executive Director of the Kelsey
6:20
Speaker 1: Smith Foundation, and you can find him at Kelsey's Army
6:24
Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor at Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and colleague,
6:29
Speaker 1: former forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and author of and This
6:35
Speaker 1: is a great book at Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But
6:41
Speaker 1: first to Crimeoline dot com investigative reporter Alexis Terreschuk. Alexis,
6:46
Speaker 1: does it never end with this guy? All the affairs,
6:50
Speaker 1: all the lies, the dyeing the hair, the trying to
6:53
Speaker 1: leave the country, the line you remember when he was
6:56
Speaker 1: telling Amber Fry he was I think in Paris for
6:59
Speaker 1: New Year, and he was really hiding behind his mommy
7:03
Speaker 1: and daddy at a vigil for his missing wife Lacy,
7:07
Speaker 1: that he killed, remember him, And he even lied. He
7:11
Speaker 1: didn't lie just to Lacy's family, he didn't lie to
7:13
Speaker 1: his own family. He was also lying to Amber Well
7:16
Speaker 1: one that he was in Paris, but two he initially
7:18
Speaker 1: said when he very first met her, his wife was dead.
7:22
Speaker 1: Before Lacy had even gone missing, he told Amber that
7:26
Speaker 1: his wife was dead and this would be his first
7:28
Speaker 1: Christmas as a widow. I mean, wait a minute, del Carson.
7:32
Speaker 1: You're's a hot shot defense attorney, no offense, But what
7:35
Speaker 1: do you do with that? Your client is either a
7:37
Speaker 1: killer or he is clairvoyant. And you've told me before
7:42
Speaker 1: you don't believe in clairvoyance, so I guess that means
7:45
Speaker 1: he's a killer. That's why you don't run your mouth
7:48
Speaker 1: if you're a criminal. But he did. So what do
7:52
Speaker 1: you do with that? You know, don't play look here,
7:54
Speaker 1: not there with me. Don't even start that with me.
7:58
Speaker 1: I ask you, why do you do with that? As
8:01
Speaker 1: a defense attorney? When your client says, yeah, this is
8:05
Speaker 1: my first Christmas as a widow, and guess what a
8:09
Speaker 1: month later it is his first Christmas as a widow.
8:12
Speaker 1: You try to discredit the alligator, right, the aledger? Are
8:17
Speaker 1: you calling Amber Fry an alligator? I know what you're doing,
8:22
Speaker 1: you know, long story short, this this guy so alexis
8:26
Speaker 1: terres Shick. Didn't we just get out of court? Didn't
8:30
Speaker 1: we just have finish a hearing for Scott Peterson where
8:33
Speaker 1: his death penalty conviction was not down to life? Did
8:37
Speaker 1: that not just happen? That did just happen? And then
8:40
Speaker 1: and you know, so there was a trial, there would
8:42
Speaker 1: be hearing about it and not a trial. There was
8:45
Speaker 1: not a trial. There was a hearing hearing and Scott
8:48
Speaker 1: have you dasty to ask? Calling him Scott? It's like
8:51
Speaker 1: you call OJ Simpson, Oj, where are you going to
8:54
Speaker 1: go out and have a drink after this program? Noah?
8:57
Speaker 1: Do you think he's going to invite over to dinner
8:59
Speaker 1: and sell blocking d what got Peterson wanted to speak
9:03
Speaker 1: and the judge just said no way. But you know
9:05
Speaker 1: who did speak in this hearing? Wait? Wait wait wait
9:08
Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, let me think about that for
9:10
Speaker 1: a moment. Scott Peterson wants to be the center of attention. Wow,
9:17
Speaker 1: he wants to speak. He wants to open his mouth
9:20
Speaker 1: in court crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know what
9:37
Speaker 1: sometimes you know? Do you? Greg Smith? And then to you,
9:39
Speaker 1: I need to shrink big time. Greg Smith. You have
9:43
Speaker 1: seen a lot and you got into this business, I
9:47
Speaker 1: like myself, well I don't know about that. Let me rephrase,
9:51
Speaker 1: you got in this business unwillingly. After your daughter was
9:55
Speaker 1: kidnapped and killed. You could just stand by on the sidelines.
10:00
Speaker 1: You got in the business. Does it ever surprise you
10:04
Speaker 1: how narcissistic killers are, Like, it's all about him, he
10:09
Speaker 1: wants to talk, and that just irritates me. No, I agree,
10:14
Speaker 1: Nancy irritates the crap out of me too. But that
10:16
Speaker 1: seems to be a common characteristic between all these people
10:21
Speaker 1: that do these types of things. They're very sure themselves.
10:23
Speaker 1: They think they're the smartest person in the room. Same
10:26
Speaker 1: thing with Kelsie's killer. I mean, you watched the the
10:32
Speaker 1: interrogation of him after he was arrested, when they're talking
10:35
Speaker 1: about Kelsey, and he, honestly, God thought that nobody knew
10:38
Speaker 1: more than he did in that room. And you know,
10:41
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I don't know why
10:44
Speaker 1: that's a characteristic, but it seems to be a common
10:46
Speaker 1: thread through all of them. You know, you brought up
10:48
Speaker 1: a thought. Remember Karen, start with me a New York psychologist.
10:51
Speaker 1: Remember how you and I together watched Jody Arius singing
11:00
Speaker 1: in the interrogation room. I mean, she knew she was
11:03
Speaker 1: being watched, and I believe she did like yoga did
11:08
Speaker 1: a headstand. Oh, just all sorts of antics, knowing she
11:13
Speaker 1: knew darn well that she was being watched and starts singing.
11:18
Speaker 1: And then even behind bars, she won America's got talent.
11:22
Speaker 1: Behind bars? Does the narcissism ever end? And here's Scott
11:27
Speaker 1: Peterson when he's having a gift drop in his lap.
11:33
Speaker 1: He gets cut from death penalty to life. He wants
11:37
Speaker 1: to stand up and talk. You know what, shut your pile.
11:40
Speaker 1: He always wanted to talk, Nancy, just like you brought
11:43
Speaker 1: up the right person, Jodiarius. Yeah, there's and their exhibitions.
11:48
Speaker 1: They want to get attention. They don't have a conscience,
11:52
Speaker 1: and so he's not plagued by thoughts of killing anybody.
11:57
Speaker 1: He just wants to get out there. He believes that
12:00
Speaker 1: brilliant to blug the law and he'll be able to
12:03
Speaker 1: stay his case. Don't remember he's on television. He gave interviews,
12:10
Speaker 1: phone call. You know. It's kind of like second verse
12:13
Speaker 1: same as the first. It's all about him. And let
12:17
Speaker 1: me ask you this, Karen Stark, infidelity is not punishable
12:22
Speaker 1: under the law, so that is just an irritant in
12:26
Speaker 1: this case, the fact that he cheated, so battling on lacy.
12:30
Speaker 1: But when I say second verse same as the first
12:34
Speaker 1: that the serial cheating and my mind is some kind
12:39
Speaker 1: of a narcissism because you think it's all about you
12:42
Speaker 1: and you getting some kind of gratification or pleasure. It's
12:46
Speaker 1: not just about the sex. It's something else that nobody
12:51
Speaker 1: else matters. They're all just pawns in your game, you know.
12:55
Speaker 1: And then when you got a baby on the way,
12:57
Speaker 1: it's not just about you and your wife. Like, there
13:01
Speaker 1: is no way I'm ever going to cheat on David,
13:04
Speaker 1: not that I want to, but even I've ever did
13:07
Speaker 1: want to, I would risk losing the twins for Pete's sake.
13:12
Speaker 1: I mean, that's crazy talk. Is that narcissism When you
13:17
Speaker 1: are having affairs with no regard to the other people
13:22
Speaker 1: in your life, Well, there's narcissism attached to it. But
13:25
Speaker 1: it's also a sexual addiction. It's a way to overcome
13:30
Speaker 1: feelings of inferiority, not that the person is aware of that,
13:34
Speaker 1: and insecurity depression, it's just losing yourself and being with
13:40
Speaker 1: multiple partners. It has nothing to do with true feelings.
13:43
Speaker 1: Like I keep saying, Nancy, this is absolutely what you
13:47
Speaker 1: need to know about a killer. There is no conscience,
13:51
Speaker 1: so each person has no real meaning. Even if he
13:54
Speaker 1: intended to kill Lacy so it could be with Amber,
13:58
Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with feeling. It just was
14:01
Speaker 1: moving on to the next person. They are all dolls
14:04
Speaker 1: to him, not people. And once again, as Alexis Tresha
14:08
Speaker 1: just pointed out, he gets in court, he's getting this
14:10
Speaker 1: huge gift of his DP knocked down to life and
14:14
Speaker 1: he wants to take the mic. Okay, take a listen
14:17
Speaker 1: to our cut thirty seven our friend Jim Ray at
14:20
Speaker 1: Inside Edition. This is what happened at the last hearing.
14:23
Speaker 1: Wife killer Scott Peterson returned to court for another day
14:26
Speaker 1: of reckoning. This just released mugshot shows him as he
14:30
Speaker 1: looks now age forty nine, little change from seventeen years
14:34
Speaker 1: ago when he stood trial from murdering his pregnant wife
14:37
Speaker 1: Lacy and their unborn son, Connor, in a case that
14:40
Speaker 1: riveted the nation. Peterson's family marched into the courtroom. He
14:45
Speaker 1: did see them and gave them a big, warm smile
14:47
Speaker 1: when he entered the courtroom. Lacey's family was also present,
14:51
Speaker 1: but came through a private door. At today's hearing, sixteen
14:54
Speaker 1: seats were allocated for Lacey's family and friends, and sixteen
14:58
Speaker 1: for Peterson's supporters, it's the first time Lacy's loved ones
15:02
Speaker 1: have come face to face with her killer in nearly
15:04
Speaker 1: two decades. They heard the judge re sentence Peterson to
15:08
Speaker 1: life imprisonment and he is no longer on death row
15:11
Speaker 1: in San Quentins. His original death sentence was overturned. And
15:15
Speaker 1: I want you to hear what was said in court
15:19
Speaker 1: by Lacy's mom at our first drama was Scott Peterson
15:25
Speaker 1: post conviction. Take a listen to our cut thirty eight
15:28
Speaker 1: Jim Ray Inside edition. At today's hearing, Lacy's mother told Peterson,
15:32
Speaker 1: I have seen no sorrow or remorse from you at all.
15:36
Speaker 1: Lacy's dead, Scott, because she loved you. She finished up
15:39
Speaker 1: by saying two facts remained the same all these years later.
15:43
Speaker 1: Number one, Lacy and Connor are still dead, and number two,
15:48
Speaker 1: you killed him. And then she walked off. Lacy's sister
15:51
Speaker 1: Amy told him there have been so many special occasions
15:54
Speaker 1: that Lacy and Connor should have been here for. It
15:57
Speaker 1: makes me sick being here today in front of you again.
16:01
Speaker 1: Speaking outside court today was Peterson's sister in law, Jamie Peterson,
16:05
Speaker 1: who insists he is innocent. He's been in prison for
16:08
Speaker 1: over eighteen years for a crime he did not commit.
16:11
Speaker 1: Yes he did, Yes he did. But I don't have
16:16
Speaker 1: a problem at all with Jamie Peterson because if my son,
16:23
Speaker 1: my brother, or my husband was charged with a crime,
16:26
Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe it. I don't think I would let
16:29
Speaker 1: myself look at the evidence. And I think that's what's
16:32
Speaker 1: happened to her, and she has been standing by her
16:35
Speaker 1: brother in law all this time as the family spokesperson.
16:39
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean he's innocent. You know, I've got to
16:43
Speaker 1: ask everybody, why do we keep seeing documentaries suggesting that
16:48
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson is innocent and vilifying everyone, including the prosecutors
16:53
Speaker 1: in this case that insists he's guilty along with the jury.
16:56
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Alexis to z Chuck.
16:59
Speaker 1: I think that there is a huge straw for this
17:01
Speaker 1: case because of how absolutely beautiful Lacey was, I mean stunning,
17:07
Speaker 1: gorgeous woman. And then Scott Peterson. Many people consider him very,
17:12
Speaker 1: very handsome, and he hasn't changed at all. As you
17:15
Speaker 1: can see from the recent months, he looks exactly the same.
17:17
Speaker 1: Most people don't thrive in prison. They look skinny, they
17:20
Speaker 1: look gone. They haven't you had any time outside and
17:24
Speaker 1: the sun. Scott looks like he's just got off the
17:26
Speaker 1: golf course. So I think that the physical attraction of
17:29
Speaker 1: this case, and then there's just the lurred details are
17:33
Speaker 1: something that people are fascinated with. I think that it's
17:38
Speaker 1: a story that is timeless, you know, this this innocent, beautiful,
17:41
Speaker 1: young victim and this man and his web of lies.
17:44
Speaker 1: Like people cannot imagine how somebody could come up with
17:48
Speaker 1: so many lives. I'm in Paris, my wife is dead,
17:51
Speaker 1: but really I'm at a vigil for my wife and
17:54
Speaker 1: baby who were missing. And then he can remember he
17:56
Speaker 1: did things like he sold Lacey's car before her body
18:00
Speaker 1: was even found channel Yeah immediately. I mean she had
18:05
Speaker 1: been missing for like three days in the order of
18:08
Speaker 1: the porn channel hint, hint. And here we are today,
18:13
Speaker 1: and there's a chance, another chance, and a good chance
18:17
Speaker 1: that he could walk free or get a new trial.
18:21
Speaker 1: Why take a list an hour cut thirty nine. This
18:24
Speaker 1: is Amy Larson at k r O in four. Today,
18:28
Speaker 1: Peterson's defense team asked for more time in order to
18:31
Speaker 1: prepare for that trial. They are looking into a juror
18:35
Speaker 1: who sat on Peterson's original two thousand and four murdered trial.
18:39
Speaker 1: This juror, her name is Rochelle Nice. She is accused
18:43
Speaker 1: of being a so called rogue juror who lied in
18:47
Speaker 1: order to be selected for that jury that ultimately found
18:51
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson guilty of murdering his wife, Lacey and their
18:55
Speaker 1: unborn son, Connor. So the judge granted that extension. They're
18:59
Speaker 1: getting sixty more days to continue their investigation into ju
19:04
Speaker 1: Rochelle Nice. Now, the prosecution opposed this. This legal process
19:09
Speaker 1: has going on for quite some time now. We've had
19:12
Speaker 1: a lot of Scott Peterson hearings this year, and the
19:14
Speaker 1: prosecution wanted to move forward with the criminal guilt phase
19:19
Speaker 1: of the trial to get a decision on whether Scott
19:22
Speaker 1: Peterson will get a new problem for the guilt faith.
19:26
Speaker 1: Before I get into the legality of what as I
19:31
Speaker 1: named her Rochelle Nice did. I named her strawberry shortcake
19:37
Speaker 1: because she had her hair the color the deep rich reddish.
19:44
Speaker 1: What color would you call that? Yeah? Okay, red At
19:49
Speaker 1: the time of the trial, that's where that name came from.
19:53
Speaker 1: Before I get into that, I want to ask doctor
19:55
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree and keep this in mind as we discuss
19:58
Speaker 1: these esoteric legal issues, Doctor Michelle Duprie, could you explain
20:02
Speaker 1: to me why baby Connor was pristine when he was
20:10
Speaker 1: found washed up on the shore as opposed to Lacy,
20:15
Speaker 1: who was basically just hair and bones. Well, Nancy, that's
20:18
Speaker 1: a very good question, and the reason is anatomy. The
20:22
Speaker 1: baby was unborn. He was protected by the strongest muscle
20:26
Speaker 1: in our body and the thickest muscle in our body,
20:28
Speaker 1: the uterus, and that protects him from all the elements,
20:31
Speaker 1: including the ocean and anything that might be in it.
20:33
Speaker 1: So how long does it take in water for Well,
20:37
Speaker 1: first of all, I guess the universe would not have
20:40
Speaker 1: been exposed to water until her outside of her body.
20:45
Speaker 1: Of Lucy's body decomposed, I'm talking about her skin. And
20:50
Speaker 1: I guess there's not any bones. Like the ribs protect
20:54
Speaker 1: the lungs, there's not really any bones protecting the uterus.
20:59
Speaker 1: Do the hit bones at all? No, not really. The
21:02
Speaker 1: uterus is in the lower part of your abdominal cavity
21:05
Speaker 1: and it's really not protected by anything except you're fat,
21:08
Speaker 1: your belly fat, and so it has a lot of
21:12
Speaker 1: good insulation. And again, the cooler, the temperature of the
21:15
Speaker 1: cooler the water. That's also going to be very protective
21:18
Speaker 1: and things will decompose a lot more slowly, especially if
21:21
Speaker 1: it is such a thick muscle like that. So there
21:25
Speaker 1: was a lot of speculations to whether Connor was born
21:27
Speaker 1: via what's called coffin birth, which means the baby's expelled
21:32
Speaker 1: post mortem, as opposed to the uterus actually decomposing and
21:38
Speaker 1: the baby just drifts out of the uterus into the water,
21:43
Speaker 1: which is what I believe was proven at trial. It's
21:45
Speaker 1: what happened because there's no indication he went through the vaginal. Yeah,
21:53
Speaker 1: I don't think that happened. I think it came out
21:55
Speaker 1: at trial that the uterus decomposed and he floated out
21:59
Speaker 1: of the uterus. That would seem to make more sense
22:02
Speaker 1: why that that is what because if he was expelled
22:07
Speaker 1: through the uterus, there would the years would have stretched,
22:10
Speaker 1: you would be able to see signs of that. We
22:13
Speaker 1: can tell, for example, when we do an autopsy, we
22:15
Speaker 1: can tell if a woman has ever been pregnant before
22:17
Speaker 1: and actually had a vaginal delivery, and we can tell
22:20
Speaker 1: that by the shape the us there. Any way you
22:22
Speaker 1: would have passed through the vaginal canal, probably not know
22:25
Speaker 1: because she was decomposed and had he passed through earlier
22:29
Speaker 1: when she before she had decomposed, then he would have
22:32
Speaker 1: been you know, likewise decomposed, right, exactly, exactly good thinking
22:50
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace Dell Carson, high profile lawyer
22:58
Speaker 1: joining me out of Jacksonville. You ever had a doctor
23:01
Speaker 1: or some other expert on the stand, but typically doctors, well,
23:06
Speaker 1: actually any kind of expert, and they get so emeshed
23:11
Speaker 1: and almost trapped in terms and explanations that a jury
23:16
Speaker 1: and lawyers don't understand. It just ruins their testimony, it does.
23:22
Speaker 1: You've got to redirect them to talk in simple terms. Yeah,
23:26
Speaker 1: and they don't like that at all. Right, Well, they
23:28
Speaker 1: can't communicate if they're too smart or think they're too smart. Now, Yeah,
23:36
Speaker 1: I always look at the Joys when I'm asked a
23:38
Speaker 1: question by an attorney that's usually sort of a technical question,
23:41
Speaker 1: and I always look at the Jory and say, well,
23:43
Speaker 1: it's not like it happens on TV. This is how
23:46
Speaker 1: it's really done. And then I go on to explain
23:48
Speaker 1: it in layman terms. That's a good way to do
23:50
Speaker 1: it too. Everybody else, listen to this. This is the
23:54
Speaker 1: crux of what's happening right now, and the defense is
23:59
Speaker 1: dance sing in the hallway. Take a listen our cut
24:02
Speaker 1: forty one k R O N four. The defense team
24:06
Speaker 1: of Scott Peterson is trying to have his conviction overturned
24:09
Speaker 1: and they are seeking a new trial. They claim one
24:13
Speaker 1: juror committed misconduct. They say she lied in order to
24:16
Speaker 1: make it onto the journey panel that ultimately found Peterson
24:20
Speaker 1: guilty of murder and sentenced him to death. That juror
24:24
Speaker 1: is Rochelle Nice. You may recognize her from the highly
24:27
Speaker 1: publicized two thousand and five trial. She was nicknamed Strawberry
24:31
Speaker 1: Shortcake for her fiery red hair. I spoke with Rochelle
24:35
Speaker 1: Nice's attorneys to hear her side of the story. They
24:38
Speaker 1: say she's been unfairly painted as a monster, and they
24:41
Speaker 1: deny any allegations of misconduct. Scott Peterson's defense team as
24:47
Speaker 1: large petition of Avia's Corpus, and one of the counts
24:52
Speaker 1: in that petition as alleged that our client, Rachelle Nice,
24:58
Speaker 1: purposefully lied on her question naire in order to get
25:03
Speaker 1: on the jury because she wanted to convinced Scott Peterson.
25:09
Speaker 1: Okay to you, I'll like to stress shut climb online
25:11
Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter explained to me what's happening. So
25:15
Speaker 1: all of the other legal avenues for Scott Peterson have
25:18
Speaker 1: been exhausted. They his attorneys have tried everything under their
25:22
Speaker 1: power to get this case overturned because of legal things
25:26
Speaker 1: that they haven't been able to find it, So they
25:27
Speaker 1: are focusing on this one. Drew, who over the years
25:31
Speaker 1: has captain captain contacts right word. She has written letters
25:36
Speaker 1: to Scott in prison, and so they have focused in
25:40
Speaker 1: on her and say that she has lied. She lied
25:43
Speaker 1: on her application, not an application. Questions is she writing
25:46
Speaker 1: him behind mars Well, she said she wanted to find
25:49
Speaker 1: out why he did this, that she was so traumatized
25:54
Speaker 1: and horrified by what had actually happened that she hoped
25:56
Speaker 1: that he would explain to her what the reasoning was
25:59
Speaker 1: behind what happen. I don't believe he's ever written her
26:02
Speaker 1: back and said here are the reasons why I killed Lacy.
26:05
Speaker 1: So she but she has said repeatedly over the years,
26:09
Speaker 1: the reason she didn't put these in her application or
26:13
Speaker 1: her questionnaire what had happened to her personally with it
26:16
Speaker 1: wasn't the same thing she said she was she never
26:20
Speaker 1: thought she was going to be murdered by the boyfriend.
26:24
Speaker 1: That she was filing a restraining order. She didn't think
26:28
Speaker 1: it was in any way, shape or formed the same situation.
26:32
Speaker 1: She just didn't think that she was an end of
26:33
Speaker 1: being murdered. It was just a bad domestic situation. Hold on,
26:36
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute. I thought that the
26:38
Speaker 1: defense is climbing that she lied as to whether she
26:40
Speaker 1: has ever been a crime victim and whether she's been
26:43
Speaker 1: a party to a lawsuit, both of which she answered no. Now,
26:48
Speaker 1: it's my understanding that the lawsuit the defense is claiming
26:53
Speaker 1: it's was she had a restraining order taken out against
26:58
Speaker 1: the boyfriend. Is that because I don't really consider that
27:01
Speaker 1: a lawsuit. Correct, There actually was a lawsuit. It's a
27:05
Speaker 1: little more complicated. She ended up there was there was
27:08
Speaker 1: a boyfriend's new girlfriend, and the two of them were
27:13
Speaker 1: arguing back and forth. Do you remember this? Yeah, And
27:17
Speaker 1: so that was where that I believe they arguing a
27:22
Speaker 1: fourth complete go ahead. What was that lawsuit about. I
27:25
Speaker 1: believe it was like a defamation lawsuit because but I
27:30
Speaker 1: don't think that it was. Again, is not anything to
27:33
Speaker 1: do with Scott Peterson or anybody killing anybody who was pregnant.
27:37
Speaker 1: It was a restraining order that she obtained against her
27:42
Speaker 1: then boyfriend's former girlfriend for stalking and threatening correct it.
27:49
Speaker 1: But again she didn't at the time believe that this
27:52
Speaker 1: had anything to do with the lazy child. That is
27:54
Speaker 1: what she has said over the years. That's why she
27:57
Speaker 1: left it off because I believe the questionnaire was something
28:00
Speaker 1: very close to what had happened too lazy you know,
28:02
Speaker 1: were you ever become of a crime where? And she thought, well,
28:05
Speaker 1: I am not at all like this. I never thought
28:07
Speaker 1: anybody was going to kill me when I was pregnant. Um,
28:11
Speaker 1: that is her story exactly. So is it the defense
28:15
Speaker 1: contention that the only time Rachelle Niece would have been
28:20
Speaker 1: a crime victim under their the defense definition, it's when
28:25
Speaker 1: she was being harassed by the girl, the ex girlfriend.
28:29
Speaker 1: Or is there something else alexis terres Chuck. There is
28:32
Speaker 1: also she took out a restraining order against a boyfriend
28:36
Speaker 1: at the time because they were again having a domestic dispute.
28:41
Speaker 1: So there are two cases yet, two situations with her. Yeah,
28:45
Speaker 1: so be civil, Yes, thank you, you're right go ahead. Dale.
28:50
Speaker 1: Twenty years ago that would have been civil, not criminal.
28:54
Speaker 1: And the result is that she probably answered appropriately. And
28:58
Speaker 1: there are three sends why the court would even consider this,
29:02
Speaker 1: And the first is it's got to be directly relevant
29:06
Speaker 1: and material, and the second is that the disclosure has
29:10
Speaker 1: to be absolutely intentional. And the last and most important
29:14
Speaker 1: here is that a defense counsel failed to ask the
29:18
Speaker 1: appropriate questions, then it turns into a problem with his
29:25
Speaker 1: ineffective assistance of counsel. So it's a huge problem and
29:29
Speaker 1: the Court's not going to change this outcome of this
29:33
Speaker 1: trial in my views. You do now we're in California, right, Ah,
29:37
Speaker 1: I had forgotten, So who knows what's going to happen.
29:55
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, very awful and
30:00
Speaker 1: issues on appeal. Del Carson will turn on but four.
30:08
Speaker 1: But four her alleged lie, which I don't know that
30:14
Speaker 1: I see it as a lie, but because when you lie,
30:18
Speaker 1: you assume to me it's intentional. But for the lie,
30:22
Speaker 1: would the outcome of the trial have been different? Very
30:26
Speaker 1: often you see that weighed on appeal and if not,
30:32
Speaker 1: then it would be deemed harmless error. What do you
30:35
Speaker 1: make of that? Well, that's exactly right, and ultimately it's
30:39
Speaker 1: probably going to be harmless error because there's is just
30:43
Speaker 1: a last dying attempt for the lawyers to figure out
30:47
Speaker 1: some manner in which to bring this before the court
30:50
Speaker 1: and into the public view, which is precisely what's happened here.
30:55
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that Scott Peterson is innocent of
30:58
Speaker 1: the crime. As you say, And when you talk about
31:01
Speaker 1: the poor body of the child floating up in the
31:06
Speaker 1: out of the ocean, you know the adipose tissue around
31:10
Speaker 1: the body is going to protect it well into death,
31:13
Speaker 1: and it's just horrifying. That's why there's such an interest
31:17
Speaker 1: in this case when you have a woman who's killed
31:21
Speaker 1: and her unborn child floats up to draw the line
31:25
Speaker 1: directly to the killer. I want to advise everybody and
31:29
Speaker 1: alexis correct me if I'm wrong. Prosecutor's response to the
31:35
Speaker 1: defense is that the questionnaire asked if Rochelle and niece
31:41
Speaker 1: had ever been the subject of a lawsuit, and that
31:45
Speaker 1: niece did not understand that a restraining order could be
31:50
Speaker 1: construed as a sort of lawsuit. Correct regarding the domestic
31:55
Speaker 1: violence incident. Now see now that restraining order was against
32:00
Speaker 1: her boyfriend's ex girlfriend, she says, with stalking and harassing her.
32:04
Speaker 1: Then you've got part two a domestic violence incident. Niece
32:09
Speaker 1: filed a declaration describing that incident as a quote heated argument.
32:16
Speaker 1: She says it was her then boyfriend, not her, who
32:19
Speaker 1: called police, and she did not consider herself a victim.
32:24
Speaker 1: Karen start, Does that change things? I think it changes everything. Nancy,
32:29
Speaker 1: I don't even understand how it got to be as
32:32
Speaker 1: far as it is at this point that she's able
32:35
Speaker 1: to testify if she is about this because the story
32:40
Speaker 1: is not the same. It just doesn't make any sense
32:43
Speaker 1: to me. As you keep saying, it's not really that
32:46
Speaker 1: kind of a crime, it has nothing to do with murder,
32:50
Speaker 1: and whatever she read, she read that it was not
32:55
Speaker 1: the same to her, and that makes sense to me.
32:58
Speaker 1: I want you to take a list in to my
33:02
Speaker 1: TV home Fox News special Our cut four on the
33:06
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson case. When you think about what it would
33:09
Speaker 1: be like for you with the person that you love
33:12
Speaker 1: the most, what would you be doing? You know, most
33:15
Speaker 1: of us would say I would be out pounding on
33:17
Speaker 1: the doors. I would be out screaming from the rooftop
33:19
Speaker 1: where is she? I would be out calling her name.
33:21
Speaker 1: He wasn't at the forefront, He wasn't the one kind
33:24
Speaker 1: of leading the search for his missing wife. You see
33:27
Speaker 1: it from the other family members, that desperate grief, that
33:32
Speaker 1: desperate fear. Where is she? Is she cold? Is she okay?
33:35
Speaker 1: To somebody have her? How do we get her? We've
33:38
Speaker 1: been thrown so much these last days that I'd like
33:41
Speaker 1: to make a play to the person or persons who
33:44
Speaker 1: have my daughter. Please bring our daughter home. And this
33:47
Speaker 1: is your beautiful smile and your fun loving personality. Every
33:51
Speaker 1: time we were together, I could feel the unconditional love
33:54
Speaker 1: between the both of us. And then you cut to
33:57
Speaker 1: what he looked like, what he sounded like day? How
34:00
Speaker 1: were you remembering your wife and your son? That's you know,
34:03
Speaker 1: very personally, I'm continued to look for obviously at times
34:07
Speaker 1: when it's difficult to go on, obviously you get these days,
34:10
Speaker 1: thanks very much. So right now again, the state and
34:16
Speaker 1: Lacy Peters Peterson's family are in the fight of their
34:21
Speaker 1: life trying to hold this conviction. And back to you,
34:25
Speaker 1: Del Carson. I remember there would be times when I
34:28
Speaker 1: would work in our appellate division and of course wrote
34:31
Speaker 1: all the appeals of my own cases where I got
34:34
Speaker 1: a guilty verdict and argue them to the appellate courts.
34:37
Speaker 1: But this is where the appellate, the appellate division is
34:41
Speaker 1: so critical. In the district Attorney's office. Now the state
34:47
Speaker 1: ag also has an appellate division that will be writing
34:51
Speaker 1: an amicus cury brief, which is a friend of the
34:53
Speaker 1: court brief to hold murder convictions as well. So you've
34:58
Speaker 1: got two people writing to hold hold this conviction and
35:02
Speaker 1: not allow emotion for a new trial to succeed. Because, again,
35:07
Speaker 1: Dell Carson, you named three of the critical rationales for
35:12
Speaker 1: whether there will be a new trial granted and the
35:15
Speaker 1: previous guilty conviction vacated, And what are the considerations, again,
35:21
Speaker 1: Dell Carson. The first point here is that during the
35:26
Speaker 1: vote ire, the information that this woman delivered to the
35:31
Speaker 1: court has to be relevant somehow. In other words, she
35:37
Speaker 1: has intentionally lied intentionals the word here, in order to
35:42
Speaker 1: be on the panel. And the third is that defense
35:47
Speaker 1: attorneys are required to ask the appropriate questions, and if
35:52
Speaker 1: they fail to ask the appropriate questions and elicit from
35:55
Speaker 1: her information that they wanted that might disqualify her, and
36:00
Speaker 1: they fail to do it, then it's on them. And
36:03
Speaker 1: as you well know, Nancy, the criteria or the basis
36:07
Speaker 1: for winning something like this is an objective standard of reasonableness.
36:13
Speaker 1: It's not maybe or if possibly, because as you say,
36:18
Speaker 1: this would be harmless error. Guys, we are all on
36:21
Speaker 1: pins and needles as we wait to you Alexis Tourez Chuck,
36:28
Speaker 1: what is the next step in this process to Scott
36:31
Speaker 1: Peterson potentially walking free? Well, Rachelle has been given immunity,
36:36
Speaker 1: So when then there's going to be the new sentencing
36:39
Speaker 1: base I'm sorry, not the sentence face, just another trial. Basically,
36:43
Speaker 1: she has been given immunity and she will be able
36:47
Speaker 1: to talk without the risk of self incrimination. So she's
36:52
Speaker 1: I guess they think that this is a good thing,
36:54
Speaker 1: that nothing she's going to say is going to affect
36:57
Speaker 1: what happened, that it's not going to be overturned because
37:00
Speaker 1: they're not going to see that she was intentionally trying
37:03
Speaker 1: to get on this jury to throw it in against
37:06
Speaker 1: Scott's favor. So there will be a new trial coming up,
37:11
Speaker 1: and I don't believe that it has been scheduled. I
37:13
Speaker 1: think there's something coming up at the end of February.
37:15
Speaker 1: There wouldn't call it a trial, I would call it
37:18
Speaker 1: an evidentiary hearing. Okay, because the next phase, to my understanding,
37:23
Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck, is there's going to be testimony at
37:27
Speaker 1: which Rachelle Nice will testify with immunity about why she
37:33
Speaker 1: answered the questionnaire the way she did. Is that correct? Yes?
37:37
Speaker 1: That is as of right now, that evidentiary hearing has
37:41
Speaker 1: not happened. Is that correct? Correct? It has not. So
37:45
Speaker 1: when you say trial, that means you have a jury
37:48
Speaker 1: pool about one hundred two hundred people and you get
37:51
Speaker 1: twelve plus alternates and then you put up evidence. That's
37:54
Speaker 1: not what's going to happen. Correct. Correct, So right now
37:59
Speaker 1: we are are looking at a February date for hopefully
38:04
Speaker 1: for an evidentiary hearing at which Rachelle niece Jawberry Shortcake
38:11
Speaker 1: that you are, will likely testify with immunity to explain
38:17
Speaker 1: why she answered the questionnaire did you're our questionnaire the
38:21
Speaker 1: way that she did? Do you agree with that, Alexis
38:25
Speaker 1: tres Chuck. I do, And I think that the prosecutors
38:27
Speaker 1: are very confident that whatever she says is not going
38:31
Speaker 1: to change what happened. But she is not going to
38:35
Speaker 1: have some bombshell confession that she did plot to get
38:39
Speaker 1: on this trial. I think that she's going to explain
38:42
Speaker 1: exactly why she answered the questionnaire the way she did,
38:45
Speaker 1: and they feel like that this is solid and this
38:47
Speaker 1: will not overturn Scott guilty verdict. Take a listen to
38:50
Speaker 1: our cut twenty if you have any further doubts Again
38:54
Speaker 1: my TV home Fox News special to Scott Peterson case.
38:59
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson portedly had ten thousand dollars in cash, his
39:02
Speaker 1: brother's ID, and a smart alec attitude when cops busted
39:06
Speaker 1: him for the murder of his pregnant wife. And then
39:09
Speaker 1: there's the change of appearance, the new blonde hair and goatee,
39:13
Speaker 1: making you wonder if he was getting ready to run.
39:16
Speaker 1: He had tried to alter his appearance dyeing his beard.
39:19
Speaker 1: He had cash, he had a weapon, camping paraphernalia, water purifiers,
39:25
Speaker 1: everything that looked like a man on the run. He
39:27
Speaker 1: had way too much stuff to be just casually going
39:30
Speaker 1: out of town. That was being prepared to be on
39:33
Speaker 1: the run for a while. They catch him, They got him,
39:36
Speaker 1: they're taking him in. He says, I've heard that there
39:38
Speaker 1: were bodies. Tell me it wasn't them. He knows that
39:42
Speaker 1: it's them, and off he goes back up to jail
39:46
Speaker 1: in Northern California. This case has been through so many
39:50
Speaker 1: twists and turns. Karen start, what toll is his taking
39:54
Speaker 1: on Lyce's mother, Sharon Rachel, Well, just think about it.
39:58
Speaker 1: Nancy as arrences herself. Not a day goes by where
40:02
Speaker 1: she doesn't think about her daughter, Lacy and Connor, and
40:07
Speaker 1: now all of this is coming up again. So she's
40:09
Speaker 1: being retraumatized without any kind of wonderful solution that Scott
40:15
Speaker 1: is confessing or saying he's sorry or so this just
40:20
Speaker 1: keeps going on and on for her, for the family.
40:24
Speaker 1: It is very, very sad and unfortunate. I'm trying to
40:28
Speaker 1: figure out dactor. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist. You and I've
40:36
Speaker 1: dealt with so many murderers and seventy murderers. I don't
40:40
Speaker 1: think they have in their mind what could happen to
40:43
Speaker 1: them if they're caught. But a lot of planning went
40:46
Speaker 1: into the disposal of Lacy's body. Explain, I think you're right.
40:50
Speaker 1: I don't think about what happens if they get caught.
40:53
Speaker 1: I think they're going to get away with it. They
40:55
Speaker 1: have absolutely no regard for anyone, really, I think, except themselves,
41:00
Speaker 1: and so they just don't think they go God, you know,
41:03
Speaker 1: to you, Alexis Terrez show the amount of planning it
41:07
Speaker 1: took to dispose of Lacy's body was overwhelming. Explain, well,
41:11
Speaker 1: it started with Scott's alibi or excuse as to where
41:15
Speaker 1: he was. You know, he told the whole family he
41:17
Speaker 1: was golfing the next day, so he is gone all day.
41:21
Speaker 1: Comes from Lacey's family has not heard from her all day.
41:23
Speaker 1: The mom and dad's stepdad talked to her repeatedly, they
41:27
Speaker 1: haven't heard mercans eight thirty pm. They're wondering where they are,
41:30
Speaker 1: wondering where they are, and then Scott tells them, oh,
41:34
Speaker 1: I've been golfing all day. Scott was not even the
41:36
Speaker 1: one in the very beginning to call the police. Lacey's
41:40
Speaker 1: stepdad was the first person. So you come home, your
41:43
Speaker 1: pregnant wife is missing. My husband would have had a
41:46
Speaker 1: heart attack. He would have called everybody under the sun,
41:49
Speaker 1: not Scott. So the father is the first one that
41:52
Speaker 1: called the police, and he said, my son, or I
41:56
Speaker 1: probably called him son because they were so close, but
41:58
Speaker 1: my daughter's hush was out golfing. He came home and
42:02
Speaker 1: she is missing. While it turned out Scott then told
42:05
Speaker 1: the police, well, I wasn't really golfing at all. I
42:07
Speaker 1: was fishing. He wasn't fishing, he was dumping Lacy and
42:10
Speaker 1: Connor's body in the San Francisco Bay. So much water
42:15
Speaker 1: has gone under the bridge right now, and the fact
42:18
Speaker 1: that this Jurard Strawberry Shortcake has been given immunity means
42:25
Speaker 1: there is no way that she's not going to take
42:27
Speaker 1: the stand. She will testify. We wait, along with Lacy's family,
42:33
Speaker 1: as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
42:37
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,