Latest / Gunhild Torleivsdotter Podcast / #3: Det vi ikke snakker om
Transcript
- episode 3: about. It's about what we don't talk about. I have with me Marja Nebula She is a mystical woman. Exciting and mystical woman. Who is self-serve massage therapist. sexologist body work and if there is something wrong you can just tell us Not certified? No, not yet. I'm in of a training. Okay, cool. Exciting. And we got to each Do you where we got to know yes, I It was a beautiful villa, one for Sofia Su, on a lollipop... Festival. I thought it was going a festival, but it out a retreat. Festival-retreat. Retreat festival? Yes. Something like that. A mix. Do you any mix of any of best things that exist? Of course. And it was so much because I think the first time I met her, I just like, she's there. I want to get to know We had something in common. was just something energy-wise, but also just the that we have maybe a little bit same rebellion in us. Possible. Absolutely. The second time we meet, we are not alone. I think it's like we do like everyone else when we meet. No. You are the best friends. That's it. I totally agree. What did we with Akerselva? We sat naked in the and talked lot. It was so nice. was really nice. It was warm and sunny. We sat on the best mini island in Akerselva Just as a Mini øya i Akerselva for people, but those who passed by... You see if they wanted to. Yes, they wanted to. But we had a little bit a I think we had. Yes, we a problem. So what we don't usually talk about... I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about yourself. Yes. So we'll just start with Tell us about yourself. I'm... By the name Marja Nebula. That's... My artist name, you could say. I don't a title. something. I'm massage therapist and I'm a sexology But I have my origin from... sex-work. That the weird thing. was through sex-work that the Marja Nebula came to me. Through a... a small over-activation of the sacral chakra, would say. In a deep, deep sorrow. In a dark place. But which is often very... The stigmatizing part of sex work is that there no one who is connected with it, with less... I was not in a crisis situation in life. had lot of full job and had it pretty stable. But inside me I a big difference between where I was and the person I actually felt I was. In some place in future. A huge accident happened. A life accident. A big accident came in and the over-activation happened. I started to explore my sexuality from a very dark place. I the fantasies that I hadn't integrated. They were big part of me. It was sexual fantasies that came out just... in small amounts, so that I could get this explosion of an orgasm and not think about it anymore and to bed. I to look for men on the to experience these fantasies. and notice that I didn't really sexual desire I started talking to them because I was young, was over-activated, hypersexual, wanted to meet people without being known to them, had sex and was pretty typical rough or used type of mood that many fantasize about for some reason. But I noticed that the more I got into that situation, I was still in a cage. Where the stereotypes were placed on me. People just... There were assumptions about how I would be treated and talked to. But I wasn't ready for that at all. There was no security at the beginning, which made it possible to... I to the sexual power flow and grow and expand. It became more of the shame around me I came and looked into and me feel no, no, wasn't it. I had, even though I a very vulnerable place and a connection to myself. made me not feel like I a dangerous situation. But I continued to go and visit the people was with at the time when the came. But then I an idea about... to trade with money. Not even first. And just be like, yes, we meet. If one day I put the money on the or asked for money, it completely different. They started asking me, what do you What are your don't They started having more discussion and set, a frame for what was to Interesting. Yes, very interesting. So was my way into... I found out after some meetings with different men who actually felt safe and who talked to me and sat around me and stuff, I out that this is fantastically fun. So that was my way of exploring my sexuality. I had of been interested in... I stopped having one night stands or hookups. I just having clients. And love. When I was in a I didn't sex-arbees. But when I wasn't in relationship, that way I had sex during performance. I have to find a name that I want to I don't have the date, it was 29th 2012. Marja Nebula And it's a funny because she has a love letter in numerology as my real name. And I didn't that. Yes, okay, so cool! And then it's then it's actually two roles in a way. Actually, it's one person. It's just that it another name. Yes. And then there was another part of me that got to myself. And then I my journey because it started as a secret side that I started to integrate. gave it another name, but you are a whole part of me that I am open about. Wow, so cool. I would like to know more about what that on. What from that In order to choose to deeper the subject. I had a colleague ago quit my in restaurant business and he was in a relationship and started to... I moved abroad to a small town in Voss. I lived in a house. A big nice house with big garden and didn't have a job for a while and just started to meditate a do some yoga, focus on innovation and think what I want. Because I was very stuck in the restaurant business. I had to earn money to create this period where I was allowed to search innovation, put my on the ground and feel where I wanted to And let myself be drawn to nature and to... back to my creativity and I figured out I wanted to to become a goldsmith. one reason. And that's really fun because an element, a metal element, a earth element, in. I moved to Fredrikstad and started studying goldsmiths. I got to practice my creativity but I also figured out that I don't want to job while I'm studying because I focus on one thing. I get so dragged into my job that I can't focus properly on studying. So I found out that we had sex work again. So me and my boyfriend had a breakup, I moving to Fredrikstad. I started doing sex work and going to school. It very... I had a great project at school. I noticed that the school work itself was not what I was looking for. was the whole environment there, was fantastic, these creative craftsmen. It was so inspiring. And I was more... I to share my ideas and inspirations with them so they could use them as they wanted and I got to them and was like a classmate. It's a spiritual geek. Who talks about deep things and wants to concepts out of videos and stuff like So was people who drew me. And while I was doing sex work I to more interested in those who came to me for the erotic massage and stuff that. It wasn't so explicit. It wasn't about meeting customers to have sex anymore. It exploring my sexuality. It more about actually giving something useful. So I noticed that giving massages was the way I wanted to my hands. And I was very good at it. Very intuitive. It came naturally. So after I went to the gold mine I figured out that I was going move to Oslo. I started getting massage therapy at DMF. And while I in Fredrikstad, also a client who came to me because he wanted to dress up in a made-up and wash my and spanked up. And to this question, opened my heart completely. Because it opened up my perspective on what... Men want what men are. I would have locked, locked impression of what men want and who they are and how their works. But then it up like, my god, is lot more to explore and this gives me so much joy and I want to explore more. It was around the time that Tantra came to me. was in 2017 when I moved to Fredrikstad and started studying at goldsmeth A lot happened in Fredrikstad In Fredrikstad, there is also a BDSM club, isn't that Yes, that's probably I've never been so deeply into the BDSM environment, I've been on my own journey. Because it's a bit of an entry into different BDSM environments, it's bit stigmatized to be professionally dominant and be paid. And that's also one reason why I want to my profession seriously. actually because there's big difference between being professional dominant and being a play partner When you're professional and you take pay you always a big responsibility as a dominant. But a little extra. And that's the practice of... How do you it in a safe envierment. How do you consent throughout the Because you meet someone you've met before. You go through a quick screening and you get the information quickly. And it's important to practice consent throughout whole thing. yes. What I'm is that coming to you is a lot safer than going to a BDSM club and being completely new. When you're new, especially as woman, you're vulnerable. And it's easy to But when come to someone who works with you, whether it's man or a woman, I it's a lot safer. Because you learn little how this is what you have expect. that right? Yes, I think we should meet people where they are. I have some clients who are old school kingsters, to 70-80 years old, 60-80 years and have been this long time. They know what they want, know what like. They very well trained. have been to many professional dominants, have been to different environments. They have around, experienced things. And then you quickly into the game and the roles. and things flow. Some, many, come to me who are interested in being or exploring BDSM. At fetlife they can't a way to communicate to get their play partners. But they have this strong need to explore. And then it a completely different tone. Because then becomes little more like education. How can you learn? to explore in my way. I focus on communication before the game or the activities. I can say that I have been in BDSM environment in Oslo. It was very typical that if I didn't have someone was very safe in their dominant role, So I would have been easy to the format. And it's a bit like that in places where become a that. But because I had him as had with me, I didn't notice that personally. But I saw how others experienced this. With not meeting people who actually knew this. They were more concerned with The sexual BDSM-release instead of being satisfied with the boundaries of aftercare and this with communication, respect, trust These things are so important when you have this. How? were many who went over it. There were many who went little overboard. And that's what happens when you have these sexual shadowsides. There is so much that is of BDSM that is taboo. Very taboo in society. And things that are taboo that you shouldn't talk about, that you haven't integrated, become shadowsides And shadowsides come out in weak moment when you over or under activated. And then become very horny without knowing how to navigate through the sexual power. The over-activated sexual power, you can very quickly cross the line. You become centred on your own kick. Like, I'm going get something out of this. Now I'm in a container where I can end my life on I outcome of what I've fantasized about for But you have to do the work when you're not active. So you can let the sexual power rise from a safe place to talk about things when you don't feel that you're there. You just that this what you fantasize about, that you want to try. And very often you out that, that fantasy works best as a fantasy. And when you try to live it out in safe way, then maybe it wasn't that exciting anymore. But then you know that, okay, then you have keep it as a fantasy. not try to... Because then you commits abuses despite the other's limitations to get their own. Yes, and that's exactly it. I practiced it in a safe room first before I left for this place. And was clear that I hadn't done that, so I don't think would dared to go in there either if it weren't for that I had that safe person who was very safe, who himself had a lot of was concerned about communication,respect, trust and very clear on how things should be done. I think he could have written a book because he is very good at but he wasn't ready for it. So then I very happy when you do this, because this is incredibly important. absolutely. I understand. You're about a friend who could have been a what was that like? But he doesn't because it's a big deal. I think it's several things, but think he doesn't to in the center of attention. He just thinks that... He just wants privacy. Because the human being is the same as you. Absolutely. And that's a very nice thing. We need people in the Who are in the environment. It's very typical that professionals don't live in the But it's very important that the environment has people who are not just... will make it a career, but they are there as a resource for the If they dare to. And it's there that professional can help them in finding that self-confidence to take that role in the example. Maybe he will get that episode after this. It's actually something more, because think the more men are safe on their own, the better it be in bed. We girls, or women, are more the safe side, or on the insecure side. on the but on drive to a place that is good. And then it's not sure that it's something he really wants, So it's something with that, when they are... It's big component in the consent education that I also do. Self-confidence, how important self-confidence is. And really working with your own self-confidence. In, regardless of who you are. Because... People who are self-confident are less safe people than others. Just because they don't to communicate clearly. They don't dare to set limits or ask about things. They become... Yes, it's a big topic. yes, self-confidence is insanely important to create safer society. my hot take on my And I think it can also feel shame if you are insecure about yourself. shame is also pretty close to that. Because you don't want to hurt the other person and kind of stuff. And then it's better to not take your place than to actually see it. This is how I want it. What do you about that? And it's open to rejection. If the other person doesn't have self-confidence enough say, you know what, it doesn't sound right for me, because I want it like this and that. Then we can agree that we shouldn't play together. Because we want different things. And that also to go on when you talk about what you want. Even if there is strong attraction between them, or between us, or between people. when you start to talk about what you want, and what you need, and what you expect, and other says, I'm not sure if this is right for me, because this is what I need to and want, and we don't want to a compromise to meet, then it's best if we just say, Thank you for fantastic conversation and the educational conversation. I feel even stronger in myself. And I finding something else to play with. And it actually says in it too. If I'm not right, then there are others out there. actually not be afraid of that, because it's easy to want to hold back and say, was a fantastic person. I would rather him or her be there with me. And hold back because it seems so fantastic. But that and actually... Okay. But this was not point. And then we went on. I think are a of people who are back. Who are afraid that this was it. I'm guilty myself of that. I have gone into dynamics. Maybe not relationships, but relationships as well. Dynamics and relationships. intimate relationships with men that I feel a strong connection to. they are very clear about who they are. But I'm like, if I just try to like that, maybe it works. And I around and have left a part of myself for a long time, resentment rises and my needs come true. It's if you just... It's after the clock, the of the beginning, it's standard. Yes, just to accept that. think that's something you have practice little bit It's a very big practice. Yes, absolutely. Because it's an incredibly difficult thing to overlook the attraction you have to someone you feel you have a connection with. I think it also be the shadowside When we started with the shadowside of many of relationships you get in with are because you have a lot in common. A lot of time in And that's why you connect. But that's where we it's right one. It's a bit different. It's a relationship you have to for... You're about a longer period, like your dearest. Or is it a dynamic, then it might be bit different. But... Yes. Absolutely. Go with the flow. Do you anything else you want to tell? Except for the that stopped you from. I can't talk forever about this, think. There's much to say. I've got to want to... Man, It's a theme that I feel is a very strong stigma. It's very... I think since I was in that environment, a lot It's much more open now than it was four or five years ago. Or six or seven, I don't remember. But there a lot that has happened in these years. And is lot more openness around it. But there are also a of who don't know. Yes, absolutely. Who don't know what's going on. For example, when we compare it with fifty shades of grey, it's bit like... Yes, but that's interesting too. fifty shades is like... I think fifty shades of grey was one of the biggest gifts BDSM could have because it was those who have been in the scene for many years in dark society where have developed so much knowledge and psychology around kink and understanding to develop all these communication methods that have come to fruition. The people who have given the knowledge and have developed so much, they just say, okay, now we have go out in the light with what we know. Because we can not let 50 shades of grey be allowed to set the for what BDSM is for now. So this is where all the teachers from. Yes, because that's exactly it. It shows fifty shades of grey, anything about what it is, it just takes out instruments in what you can use, but it doesn't much about what it And what you've mentioned today is like... There's so much more. There's so much more. I hadn't seen Fifty Shades of Grey. But Ron had a lot because of I had heard. And I you what? I just to watch it. And then they like, it was a little funny. Extremely simple entertainment. And for me, it's a little different story than what I've heard. I agree that they don't represent BDSM from the south side, they represent BDSM and Kink and Fetish from the shadow side Christian Grey is clearly just... He is a abused child. He was groomed by an elderly lady. He used the same way he used other women. Yes. That's what history And if you deeper into it, you can't romanticize the fifty shades of grey see the underlying message there. No, to honest, took some episodes, no, some movies before I... like... Yes, but Heavens It took some time, because it's just what I'm It's overwhelming. People just at these scenes where she's I'm a dungeon hunter and like, just think, wow, so sexy, like, or, my god, help us, help us, no no no, they haven't put the safety in the But I don't think Fifty Shades of Grey was meant to teach us about BDSM. Fifty, that's for entertainment. And it tells a deep story. And if you follow it you can what the story is about. it's... how insecure people become when they don't process their traumas. And in the of the three films, I think she is... I don't remember her Anastasia? Yes, Anastasia. She becomes very good at reaching the limit. She leaves him at a certain point. And I'm like, this is because my... And learn like a sub and set boundaries. So she's fucking hero in the story. But I think that has been said, that it's her. It's her who has the I would say she's a good actress. I think she's actress, She plays a of cool sex roles. And I think she's person who's a type. That she plays... In a way, a little bit yourself. It's not like Yes. And then... Yes. But now we little bit I think. In a way. I think it was important to it out because I think it's very typical that we get inspired by Fifty Shades of Grey, and then we want to do a of the same, and then doesn't quite happen, because you don't have the basic rules in the bond, you have to, for what you're do these things. And that is incredibly important. So I think that now we are the end. But I would like to have a landing check-in. Where we... Because now we have gone through lot of and you get very... A of a jittery. Yes, and I just want to in a check-in element that I will use in my episodes What do you in your body right now? You don't need to say it, just feel it. Is there something you have said today that feels important? I think I've said most of and probably everything I've I'm open to being challenged. Okay. What does hashtag break the taboo to you? The first thing comes to me is security. Because, like Nevent, taboos and making it open to talk about anything makes the world safer. If a person who needs to hear your is listening right now, what would you to to him or her? Reach out, tail off. If they recognize each in my story, I say Congratulations, you have a fantastic life ahead you Congratulations, you are... Now stop. I know I can be very scary and lonely and isolated. That's I reach out. that's great. I liked that. And with that I would like to you being with us. And thank you listeners for listening and watching. And thank you for being with us creating a room where we can talk about this. and in relation to that, with... Whoa. Thank you for opening this room so we can invite people in to come and talk about Yeah. Hashtag Break the Taboo. Come back to your body. Come back to yourself.