Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Intermediate Designer: Unicorn Wanted, Salary Missing

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Intermediate Designer: Unicorn Wanted, Salary Missing · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:01
  Hey everyone and welcome to Roast the Post,
• 0:03
  the story behind the bullets.
• 0:05
  I'm Jennifer Houle and every week Paul and I pull apart a real
• 0:09
  job posting to
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: figure out what it actually says about the company behind it.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because let's be honest, job postings are rarely just job postings.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: There are tiny windows into culture,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: decision making,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: and sometimes a warning flag for complete chaos.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a job seeker,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: we'll help you read between the lines so you can spot the red flags,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: the green flags,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: and the run,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: don't walk flags.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're a job seeker seeker,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: HR folks,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: hiring managers,
• 0:37
  anyone crafting these things will decode why certain posting
• 0:41
  structures signal
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: clarity or why others break confusion everywhere.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode, one of us brings a job post the other hasn't seen.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: We break it down section by section.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end,
• 0:52
  we both give it a score and leave you with some insights from
• 0:55
  our nearly 50 years
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: of combined experience in the world of workplaces.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let's roast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what happened on January 2nd?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: What happened on January 2nd?
• 1:09
  Ontario's pay transparency law has dropped and you have to as
• 1:15
  an employer now
• 1:16
  disclose a salary range when you're posting a job posting as of
• 1:21
  like January 2nd.
• 1:23
  And guess what the guess what the like little bits and pieces
• 1:26
  of that whole thing
• 1:27
  are and what the asterisks are of that pay transparency
• 1:31
  legislation that the Ford
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: government was like all about.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: doesn't it,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: you have to be like employer with 25 or more employees,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: like there's some caveats there.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: I also, yeah, looked up what are the consequences of not following that?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And like, what is the process?
• 1:51
  Because we're going to see a lot of job postings that aren't
• 1:54
  following it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, no, what did you have to say about that?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So the range is $50,000.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, $50,000 range.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you said,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: which when,
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: when I was reading through it and I,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: and I came across that,
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: hang on a sec.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's the point?
• 2:12
  Like,
• 2:12
  I'm going to be waiting for the first job that posts a range of
• 2:15
  zero to $50,000.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting.
• 2:22
  Do you know off the top of your head if it's the same range
• 2:26
  like for the other
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: provinces doing it?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I should.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I should I should look into that a little bit more.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the the fifty thousand dollar maximum range thing I was like.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: What's the point?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Posting a job range of 30 to 80, that doesn't really do much of anything.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it only applies to jobs where the salary is under $200,000.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's over $200,000 a year, you don't have to do it at all.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that at all.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 3:02
  I mean,
• 3:02
  not like there are tons of jobs that are going to be posted
• 3:05
  that are over 200,000.
• 3:06
  Like at that point,
• 3:07
  you're looking at executive recruiters and headhunters and
• 3:09
  whatnot.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like not really a public posting kind of thing,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like,
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I just,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I so badly want to see a job with a posted range of zero to 56.
• 3:21
  that's so interesting and like for an organization that just
• 3:25
  has has their like
• 3:27
  affairs in order and has salary ranges for all of the different
• 3:30
  roles and things
• 3:31
  like that like i think it's just not a problem you already have
• 3:33
  that information
• 3:34
  it's not going to be like zero to fifty thousand it's going to
• 3:37
  be something a
• 3:38
  little bit more realistic um but otherwise it'll be interesting
• 3:42
  to see now because
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: job posting and everything.
• 3:47
  The job search on both ends is going to ramp up now that we're
• 3:51
  past the holiday break.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it'll be interesting to see.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:56
  It'll be interesting to see what happens there and what,
• 3:59
  if any,
• 3:59
  are the consequences.
• 4:00
  BC has had it for a while and I've seen tons of job postings
• 4:05
  that don't have a
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: salary range at all.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: It drives me wild.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like I cannot stand it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: I just,
• 4:12
  I don't understand why any company would wait to do something
• 4:16
  until they're forced
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: to do it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:19
  yeah just do it yeah speaking of just doing it let's let's get
• 4:25
  into this episode
• 4:26
  it's a designer i'm excited do it okay so here is what i have
• 4:31
  for you um i found
• 4:33
  this one before the holiday break for anyone listening i don't
• 4:37
  know when this was
• 4:39
  when this will be aired but we're recording it just after the
• 4:42
  holiday break
• 4:43
  Sometimes things are recorded at different times and then put
• 4:47
  out into the universe.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I found this before the holiday break and wanted to save it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it's still there.
• 4:54
  It has been reposted about six days ago,
• 4:58
  which is not a surprise during the holiday break.
• 5:02
  it's it's really not a great time to be hiring or to be looking
• 5:07
  for a job which you
• 5:09
  know consequently when if and when someone loses their job and
• 5:14
  gets severance and
• 5:15
  it's close to the holiday period it's a good opportunity to try
• 5:20
  to negotiate a
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: higher severance amount because it will technically take
• 5:24
  a little bit longer to land a role um so that's a good tip you
• 5:30
  know never sign the
• 5:31
  first thing in front of you for severance paperwork always try
• 5:34
  to negotiate um you
• 5:36
  have nothing to lose right so anyway designer intermediate
• 5:42
  designer i have two
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: titles because
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the like job posting that the title of the jobs as designer,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: but then you'll see as we get into the job posting,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: it says intermediate designer.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: the role,
• 5:58
  we don't know who the role reports to it's unknown company size
• 6:02
  is about 1300
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: globally.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: The industry is advertising services.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: So this is an agency.
• 6:11
  And what they do,
• 6:13
  they are a global creative agency,
• 6:16
  unrivaled social media expertise.
• 6:19
  They work with the world's biggest brands,
• 6:21
  including Adidas,
• 6:22
  Samsung,
• 6:23
  Netflix,
• 6:23
  Google.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: And they are,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: like I mentioned,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: global 19 offices worldwide,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: but this role specifically is hybrid based in Toronto.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And the company was founded in 2008.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going to go through as per usual,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: the job posting section by section,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: and we can stop and take pauses as we feel necessary.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: The specialties of this company are marketing,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: advertising,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: influencer marketing,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: advocacy programs,
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: production,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: research and insight,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: cultural insights,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: brand building strategies,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: social media,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: creative,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: paid media distribution,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: measurement,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: branded content,
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: editorial strategy,
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: sports,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: marketing,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: and sports sponsorship.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: They do a lot.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: They have a lot of special, these are specialties mind you.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: who we are for over 15 years,
• 7:18
  our unique understanding of online culture and social behaviors
• 7:21
  has helped some of
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: the biggest brands cut through the clutter to be seen,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: heard,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: and known around the world.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're a growing network that combines small agency vibes,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_03: with big agency opportunities,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: a global community of 1300 experts across 19 international offices.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: We put knowledge sharing and each other at the heart of everything we do.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Let's pause there.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything you're feeling from that?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like an ad agency for sure.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: like the funny thing about this is true of most professional services
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: organizations,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: but particularly advertising agencies,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: marketing agencies,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: they they they're continuously on the hunt for business.
• 8:06
  So they pay a lot of attention to how they position themselves
• 8:11
  and they they humble
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: brag in absolutely everything they do,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: which just part of the reason why I left that industry.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Still entertains me.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I know who this agency is,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: to be honest,
• 8:24
  and I'm not gonna say it out loud because we ain't got no
• 8:26
  lawyers and whatnot.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not doing that on the show.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I knew who they are.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Does this set off any kind of feelings for me at this point?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's pretty standard issue stuff for agencies.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And even the designer, intermediate designer thing,
• 8:45
  It might seem weird to some people,
• 8:48
  but it's actually pretty normal in that industry.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite common to be like,
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to go looking for a designer slash intermediate designer,
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: or sometimes it'll be like junior slash intermediate designer,
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: or sometimes it'll be intermediate slash senior designer.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason that they do that is to cast a wide net.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there isn't really anything that clearly defines who is junior,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: intermediate,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: or senior in creative services.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, nobody really cares about it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: What they care about is your talent.
• 9:22
  If you've got design chops and you're very creative and you
• 9:25
  kind of demonstrate an
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: ability to do the work at a high level and do it on time,
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't really matter,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: but I personally believe,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: and this is anecdotal,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: that a lot of agencies will take this approach and say,
• 9:40
  we're looking for X slash Y as a way to put downward pressure
• 9:47
  on the salary that
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: they offer.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because they can say, oh, you're a senior designer.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, that's nice.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, okay.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we will offer you this.
• 9:58
  It's less than what you're looking for,
• 10:00
  but,
• 10:00
  uh,
• 10:00
  not really feeling senior from this.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that some of them do that.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, continue.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Continue.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have,
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't have thoughts on it really,
• 10:10
  besides the fact that I like the line we're agreeing network
• 10:13
  that combines small
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: agency vibes with big agency opportunities.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think like, obviously.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: based on what they do,
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: it's going to be,
• 10:23
  there are gonna be some really good things about this job
• 10:25
  posting and the way that
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: they're marketing it,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: So about the job,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: the role,
• 10:31
  we are looking for an intermediate designer to join our growing
• 10:34
  creative team.
• 10:35
  This is a team of brand thinkers with a deep passion for social
• 10:39
  because it's where
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: culture and audience insights take off.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: You will join our Toronto office and be expected to work with a fun and
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: enthusiastic group of talented teammates.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: We are a creative agency powered by social connections.
• 10:54
  That means we thrive on what's trending and creating campaigns
• 10:58
  that get people buzzing.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: We call it Ideas Worth Talking About,
• 11:01
  and we're proud to have played a part in some of the most
• 11:03
  culturally relevant
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: campaigns of the decade for brands like McDonald's,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Adidas,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Universal Studios,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: and YouTube.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Why you'll love it here.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: We like to laugh, we live for celeb gossip, and we're great on aux.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: A-U-X, auxiliary audio cord.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: I had to look that up.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think it just means that they have, they like music.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: They have good taste in music.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: Music is a vibe there.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the person who wrote this is our age or older.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody uses an aux cable anymore.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 11:41
  Our passport program lets you explore and work from one of our
• 11:45
  18 other offices
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: worldwide,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: including Paris,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Singapore,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Madrid,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Dubai,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: London,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: and more.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: You best believe we know how to celebrate our wins and our losses.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's how we learn.
• 11:56
  From carbon offsets to community kitchens,
• 11:58
  we're passionate about making a difference.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: going to pause there,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: even though we didn't go that far into it,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: we covered the role,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: who they are,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: and why you'll love it here.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Anything stand out to you?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Anything you want to double click on?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that deepens the whole agency thing.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to harsh on them too much at this point,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: but saying,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: we have a passport program,
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: you can work from anywhere.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's great in one sentence and then in the other sentence saying,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: but we care about carbon offsets.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a little hypocritical.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really dig that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I do dig the whole idea of the passport program.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Go work in an office in another city for...
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: X or Y. That's really cool.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be a big draw.
• 12:44
  They obviously have identified who they want to kind of bring
• 12:48
  in for this.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: That would be a big,
• 12:50
  big draw for someone who's young and kind of starting their
• 12:53
  career and doesn't have
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of stuff like tying them to one specific place and loves to travel.
• 12:58
  You know,
• 12:58
  like if I was in my 20s and I was still kind of in this
• 13:01
  industry,
• 13:01
  I'd be like,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go work in Paris,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: like one month,
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: and then I'm going to go work in like Japan and other months.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, sign me up.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would absolutely do that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think it sounds really exciting.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: It definitely reads young.
• 13:15
  I would like to know a little bit more about what that program
• 13:21
  looks like.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like what are what are the guardrails for the limitations?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: How long
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Can somebody stay in a different location?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: There are tax implications, of course.
• 13:29
  And so I'd be really curious to see how they have sussed all of
• 13:33
  that out because
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: there's a lot behind that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, it sounds like they've got it figured out.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're going to have these global offices,
• 13:46
  The idea of having people being able to visit them and work
• 13:49
  from them is amazing.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 13:53
  Community kitchens,
• 13:54
  community kitchens was something that was interesting to me.
• 13:58
  What that means,
• 13:59
  don't know,
• 14:00
  but I also like that they mentioned like they celebrate their
• 14:03
  wins.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'd like to know how, like, is it bonuses?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what does that look like?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And they mentioned their losses and the fact that that's how they learned
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: about how they learn.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love a learning organization.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: So that's pretty cool.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I'd like to see that in practice.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: What does that mean?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: But this job posting isn't necessarily the place for that.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like a thesis.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's a job posting.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: So and then it goes on to you are
• 14:32
  A person who thrives in a fast paced environment responding
• 14:35
  quickly and proactively
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: not interested in just following trends,
• 14:39
  you want to create them a self starter who will take ideas from
• 14:42
  concept to
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: execution navigating feedback like a pro.
• 14:48
  Then it says,
• 14:48
  traditional agency experience is not required,
• 14:51
  but it's a plus.
• 14:53
  What matters is your deep understanding of what resonates with
• 14:55
  social audiences.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: This role is energetic, innovative, and forward thinking.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Alongside engaging with communities,
• 15:02
  you'll guide brands by staying ahead of social trends and
• 15:05
  cultural moments.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: In return,
• 15:07
  you'll join a global agency dedicated to generating buzzworthy
• 15:11
  ideas for some of
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: the world's leading brands.
• 15:14
  So I'm going to stop there because that was really short,
• 15:17
  but there's a lot there.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you touched on it.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: It reads very young, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not trying to be ageist at all.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that there's certain types of language,
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: just like the gender coded language we've discussed in the past that
• 15:35
  is going to speak to certain stages of life uh and asking
• 15:42
  people to respond quickly
• 15:43
  and proactively um self-starter i mean this very common
• 15:49
  language but again there's
• 15:50
  a story in each of those bullet points which we we discuss all
• 15:55
  the time so yeah
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: through your thoughts
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: it's definitely more and more,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: this is the shape,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: like the picture of this agency is starting to kind of come into view.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: What stuck out for me is that they say,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: you don't have to have worked for an agency before,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: but it's a plus.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of interesting.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think that that reinforces that this is
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: or at least they're trying to be like an up and coming free thinking,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: doing things differently,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: social marketing type organization,
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: because they're essentially saying with that one sentence,
• 16:34
  like we don't fit into the mold of the industry and we don't
• 16:38
  want you to either.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: come and like join us,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: even if you're even if you're like someone who worked in finance before.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's particularly interesting to me.
• 16:51
  is this industry in particular tends to be one that is very,
• 16:56
  very clinky.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: They like their own a lot.
• 17:00
  uh so when you when you see people who are joining an agency a
• 17:05
  lot of the time
• 17:06
  they've been poached from another agency or they come across
• 17:09
  laterally during an
• 17:10
  acquisition or something um so it's interesting that these
• 17:13
  folks are trying to say
• 17:15
  like you don't have to have done that before like you don't
• 17:18
  have to be part of the
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: club you can join us and become part of our own club that's interesting
• 17:24
  yeah um I think that the traditional agency experience is not
• 17:29
  required but it's a
• 17:30
  plus like I just wonder how that's gauged then right like what
• 17:35
  does that rubric
• 17:36
  look like when you have people candidates who do have
• 17:39
  experience versus those who
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: do not um
• 17:44
  what yeah what are they looking for then and i think you
• 17:47
  touched on it a little bit
• 17:48
  i think i think it's really about energy levels it says right
• 17:52
  there the role is
• 17:52
  energetic um so i think that that's what matters a lot and i
• 17:55
  also wonder if they're
• 17:57
  looking for people who maybe just have like their own social
• 17:59
  media platform and
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: experience with tiktok and instagram and
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: all of the other social media applications that I don't have, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like is, does that count for something?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it does.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think in a situation like this,
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: in a role like this,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: even if you don't have direct agency experience,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: maybe you just have really good social media experience,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: whatever that looks like in this day and age,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: so.
• 18:25
  yeah i i interviewed this is probably about uh 15 15 years ago
• 18:30
  now at this point um
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: i interviewed a woman for an agency job at the agency i worked at and um
• 18:39
  We had this kind of thing where we,
• 18:41
  for some roles,
• 18:42
  we kind of treated it like an audition.
• 18:44
  So we would put together the job role and everything that kind
• 18:48
  of went around it as
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: if you were auditioning for a part in a show.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And for this particular role,
• 18:58
  that was kind of what it was because they were essentially
• 19:00
  going to be the social
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: media presence for a handful of clients.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think we had it
• 19:06
  sorted out so that it would be four or five clients bucketed
• 19:09
  together and they
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: would be kind of like the social account manager type thing.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But they'd also be creating content on behalf of these clients.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So so they needed to be able to to do that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one woman that I interviewed, it was like it really blew me away.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: She put together an entire campaign.
• 19:27
  and film spots on her smartphone that would be like posts on
• 19:31
  different social
• 19:32
  platforms and she kind of walked through like the rationale of
• 19:34
  each like it's the
• 19:35
  kind of thing that um it could have been would have been work
• 19:38
  right like it could
• 19:39
  have been paid work um for a client like i could have billed
• 19:42
  those hours it was
• 19:43
  that good but she went to that kind of extent um in the job
• 19:47
  interview i was like
• 19:49
  wow this is really good like good for you um but a lot of the
• 19:53
  time stuff like that
• 19:54
  is kind of it's kind of the norm in the advertising industry
• 19:57
  like nobody will say
• 19:58
  you must put together this thing and you know give it to us
• 20:00
  unpaid because that's
• 20:02
  kind of icky um but people will still kind of go that extra
• 20:05
  mile and do that
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes and it's interesting to see it because you get a sense of their
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: personality
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you get a sense of how they would work on behalf of clients.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of also get a sense of like,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can sell these billable hours sort of thing,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: because that's what it all boils down to with agencies.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like selling time, really.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Did she get the job?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she absolutely did.
• 20:24
  So this is an interesting question,
• 20:26
  totally like steering us off track here.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: But if somebody does go above and beyond in an interview process,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: so they're going outside of the process that you've created.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you and I have strong feelings about this.
• 20:38
  I think we both agree that it is important to have a process
• 20:41
  and to have like
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: consistency across all candidates.
• 20:43
  But if you have a candidate who themselves doesn't follow the
• 20:47
  process and they
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: produce extra work that you didn't ask for,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: What are your thoughts on that?
• 20:54
  I've always looked at it as like good for you and I'm paying a
• 20:58
  lot more attention to you now.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Not because they put in the extra effort.
• 21:04
  The extra effort doesn't really mean a whole lot to me in those
• 21:07
  scenarios.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: it does,
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: but not in relation to like,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: are you the best person for this job and are you the best person for this
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: organization?
• 21:15
  It more so makes me pay attention to them a little bit more
• 21:20
  seriously because they
• 21:21
  demonstrate the ability to think about the role through my eyes
• 21:25
  as the hiring
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: manager.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when people do that and they kind of demonstrate,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I understand what you need,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I take them very,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: very seriously,
• 21:33
  even if they've completely ignored what I said and have done
• 21:35
  kind of their own
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: thing,
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: gone rogue.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm all for it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to force someone to do something like that.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: But if they do it to their own volition, well,
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I think it's really interesting.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'm torn between thinking from like situationally,
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: one person maybe isn't gainfully employed at that time.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so they have a lot more time on their hands than someone who is
• 22:01
  employed full-time and maybe has a family and like just just
• 22:05
  navigating a bunch of
• 22:06
  other stuff and you know it's it wasn't asked for so it wasn't
• 22:12
  part of the
• 22:12
  requirements of of the job application process so i think
• 22:16
  that's where i struggle a
• 22:17
  little bit um but then i don't want that also to be used
• 22:21
  against people who maybe
• 22:22
  have more on their plate than others because then it's like
• 22:24
  well is this an
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: indication of what you're going to bring to work are you going to do like
• 22:28
  the bare minimum are only what you're asked because that's all
• 22:31
  the bandwidth you have.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a really interesting debate.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also kind of an ethical nut here, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you want job competitions to be fair and honest,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: and everybody to have the same shot at it,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: like that's a good thing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Structurally,
• 22:49
  you absolutely want to have a process and a system in place
• 22:52
  that encourages
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: fairness across candidates.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's good for your organization, it's good for them, it's good for you.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: you don't want to do,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: at least I believe,
• 23:03
  you don't want to do kind of the opposite and penalize people
• 23:07
  who play outside the
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: lines.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because once you start doing that,
• 23:10
  then you're essentially saying you must be a cog in the machine
• 23:14
  and you're going to
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: be penalized for creative thinking.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And no organization benefits from,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: penalties to creative thinking and creative problem solving.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: In fact,
• 23:23
  organizations that kind of take that approach to their job
• 23:26
  structures and job
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: goals,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: they should probably be like relegated to the dustbin of history.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think you make a really, really good point.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: I have so much more to say in the topic,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm going to go back to the job posting before we forget about it.
• 23:47
  Okay,
• 23:47
  so we talked about who you are when you're applying,
• 23:52
  and this is what you'll do.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Responding to client briefs with clear and justified design concepts,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: speaking clearly about any design decisions and rationale,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hacking internet culture through design.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: So finding the brand spin on the trend.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Work proactively on all projects,
• 24:12
  asking questions when necessary and making use of the knowledge
• 24:15
  within the creative
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: team.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Working in a fast paced environment and prioritizing multiple deadlines.
• 24:22
  Autonomy over a range of design aspects across a diverse range
• 24:25
  of clients.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: and performing agency duties,
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: such as attending meetings,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: participating in presentations and adding client and industry events,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: attending client and industry events when needed.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven bullet points.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the shortest that I have seen actually,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: but within those seven bullet points,
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: there's a lot there.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the entire job posting?
• 24:52
  no that's just the okay okay okay just the one section what
• 24:55
  you'll do right it's
• 24:56
  just like the responsibilities which is usually like you know
• 25:00
  here's the part one
• 25:02
  part two part three of these wild jobs but this is pretty like
• 25:06
  they've got it and
• 25:08
  again as an agency they know what this role is they know what's
• 25:11
  required of the
• 25:11
  role so it's pretty easy to have an idea of what they're going
• 25:15
  to be doing
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go to industry events.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally normal for this industry.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Go to client events, go to fundraisers, all that stuff.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit unusual to say that a designer will be doing that.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, that's business development stuff.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So like your account managers,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: your account directors,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: those folks,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: your AMs and AVs,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: those folks,
• 25:36
  they'll be going to all of the industry stuff and doing like
• 25:38
  the back slapping and
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: here,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: let me go get you something from the bar or whatever.
• 25:43
  um let's talk business after two or three drinks like usually
• 25:45
  that's a business
• 25:46
  development function and that's what happens at these events a
• 25:49
  lot um to say that a
• 25:50
  designer is going to participate in that interesting um i'm
• 25:55
  very i'm not saying
• 25:56
  it's bad but i'm very very curious about the thinking behind
• 26:00
  that because designers
• 26:01
  typically aren't developing new business unless they're
• 26:04
  participating in a um uh in
• 26:06
  a pitch so producing creative for a uh for a business pitch or
• 26:10
  for something like
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: that or presentation or what have you
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: I found that part interesting.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not a strike against them, just curious.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that did stick out for me in that,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: though,
• 26:21
  is they talk about the designer needing to very clearly and
• 26:28
  concisely go through
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: and elucidate on design rationale.
• 26:33
  for something that they prepare that is um that is not
• 26:37
  something that i i've never
• 26:39
  expected a junior or an intermediate designer to be able to do
• 26:43
  that that's that's
• 26:45
  very much a senior level designer type thing because typically
• 26:48
  when you're in your
• 26:50
  20s um you're just starting your career as a designer you're
• 26:53
  not good at that it
• 26:55
  takes a lot of time and a lot of development of critical
• 26:58
  thinking skills when it
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: comes to your design practice um to get really really good at that
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that stuck out for me.
• 27:05
  That makes me wonder if this agency is trying to do a bit of an
• 27:09
  end run and pull in
• 27:11
  somebody who is a senior designer with lots of experience and
• 27:14
  bucket them into kind
• 27:16
  of a more entry-level intermediate role to compress the salary
• 27:21
  part a little bit.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know much about this industry,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: but you know what you're saying about attending client events,
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: industry events when needed.
• 27:33
  I kind of think that this might be kind of like a new direction
• 27:37
  because they're
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: content creators and so they're kind of their own celebrity as well.
• 27:44
  And so maybe the agency is finding that it's a benefit to them
• 27:48
  that those content
• 27:49
  creators are showing up to these events too so that clients can
• 27:53
  meet them.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, networking, I don't know.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's social media.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just, it just grows and grows and grows.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think any kind of touch point is going to help with that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 28:06
  it could also be that they're coming to these events to create
• 28:10
  content on behalf of
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: the agency for use in business development.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: As I think about it, that's probably it.
• 28:19
  Like,
• 28:19
  I can't imagine a reason why you would want a designer trying
• 28:22
  to develop a new business.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're right.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: They're probably there to create the content.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's like everything is content now.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: Everything.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel when I say things,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: when I try to talk about social media,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like such an old lady,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: like everything is content.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what I'm talking about.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: So requirements for this role.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Three to five years of experience in design,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: specifically expert in Adobe Suite,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: use of AI tools and prompting,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Adapting brand guidelines through social lens in an elevated way.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Editorial layout skills that can translate to a variety of styles,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: extensive understanding of typography,
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: great eye for sourcing and retouching photography,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: ability to create graphics,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: illustrations,
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: and word marks.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: highly proficient in creative cloud and Google slides,
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: a proactive can-do attitude,
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: video editing or animation experience,
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: passion for culture,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: creativity,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: art,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: design principles,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: and social media,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: good time management when working towards conflicting deadlines,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: confidence to initiate design ideas and ask questions,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: obsessed with the internet and can speak only in mean language if needed,
• 29:37
  Natural curiosity and understanding of consumer behaviors and
• 29:40
  mindset in social.
• 29:44
  So I saw you make a couple of faces and I'm really curious on
• 29:50
  which of these
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: requirements you would like to.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: No,
• 29:59
  I think I'm just going to go stand on the lawn a little bit and
• 30:02
  tell people to get
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: off and whatnot,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: because that's what it is.
• 30:06
  No,
• 30:06
  what kind of what kind of made me what kind of made me like
• 30:11
  pause there for a second and.
• 30:13
  you know,
• 30:13
  have a moment was on one hand,
• 30:15
  you're saying you must be obsessed about the internet.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: the internet at this point is,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's a bit of like a facet of everybody's daily lives.
• 30:24
  And you know,
• 30:25
  people who are your people who are obviously looking for for
• 30:28
  this role.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're not obsessed with the internet,
• 30:31
  they're obsessed with the things they're obsessed with that are
• 30:33
  delivered by the
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: internet.
• 30:35
  Like that statement was kind of a backdoor way of saying,
• 30:39
  you must be able to use technology.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just weird to me that it was phrased that way.
• 30:48
  And then the other thing that kind of made my eyebrow twitch a
• 30:52
  little bit was you
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: must really understand meme culture.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fucking memes.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hate memes.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I hate meme culture.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hate everything about it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It makes us stupider.
• 31:04
  i mean i can't even again as someone who is not on social media
• 31:11
  except for linkedin
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: andSubstack i can't i couldn't even tell you what like uh an up-to-date
• 31:19
  meme is right now so but again this this is so clearly not
• 31:25
  catered towards someone
• 31:26
  in my age range right i'm like very end of gen x and so i yeah
• 31:33
  i'm just not i'm
• 31:35
  just not with it you are not missing a damn thing uh meme
• 31:41
  culture is the end of
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: intellect yeah yeah
• 31:47
  The rest of those requirements,
• 31:48
  like,
• 31:49
  so there's another story being told here.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the list of requirements started off very,
• 31:56
  very much like what you would put down if you were looking for
• 32:02
  a traditional
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: designer,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: someone who is kind of a generalist graphic designer,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: like they're really good with the Adobe suite of products,
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: they're really good with layups,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: they're really good with visual media that's not motion media.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then it got into...
• 32:15
  And that's fairly new within the past few years and interesting
• 32:19
  because there is a
• 32:21
  there is still a raging debate and it's kind of nasty in some
• 32:27
  quarters in the
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: creative services space.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: and with people who are creatives,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: artists,
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: art technologists,
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: or whatever,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: about the use of AI.
• 32:37
  Because any AI that is used in creative services has been
• 32:43
  trained on the works of
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: designers without consent.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Adobe is included in their models.
• 32:50
  They're not having a very good time with the reaction to this
• 32:56
  sort of stuff right now.
• 32:57
  And I think that Adobe is one of the companies that's been sued
• 33:00
  about unauthorized
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: use of copywritten materials.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's an interesting debate going on,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: but this agency is saying you must be like an expert at AI.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: From a functional practical standpoint, yeah, of course you have to.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just the way that it is.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that would turn a lot of people off,
• 33:19
  especially people who are more experienced and people who have
• 33:22
  directly sold their
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: own creative works or freelanced.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: They would read that and be like,
• 33:28
  don't know i don't dig this um what's to stop this machine from
• 33:32
  replacing me in six
• 33:33
  months uh why are you hiring me like that that a lot of people
• 33:38
  in creative services
• 33:39
  um especially in video game design um they kind of think like
• 33:43
  that that all this so
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: i i probably would have omitted that myself if i uh
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was writing this job post,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: and even if my agency was using AI tools,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't have put that front and center.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that stuck out for me with this is that they are saying,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: you kind of have to have experience with motion graphics,
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: animations and whatnot.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is very,
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: very,
• 34:06
  very unusual to have a generalist graphic designer also be a
• 34:12
  motion graphics
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: designer and vice versa.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're different skill sets.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't necessarily play well really
• 34:23
  all that much like you it's it's tough to find people who are
• 34:27
  good at both kind of
• 34:28
  branches like non-motion and motion like it's just it's two
• 34:33
  separate things so this
• 34:34
  this really reads like an agency that wants a bit of a unicorn
• 34:39
  to come in uh a
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: unicorn that is like
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: few years out of design school,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: vocab or whatever,
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: and can do everything and do it for a great price and also use AI,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: which might replace them one day.
• 34:52
  There's some stuff in here that's making my spidey sense go off
• 34:56
  a little bit.
• 34:57
  yeah the the ai thing is interesting because it does say it
• 35:02
  just says use of ai
• 35:04
  tools and prompting but it is that question of when you're in a
• 35:07
  creative type role
• 35:08
  like oh wait are you hiring me to train ai to replace me like
• 35:13
  that's a legitimate
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: question and legitimate concern so i totally totally agree with that
• 35:19
  um I don't have much to say on this it seems pretty
• 35:22
  straightforward my question is
• 35:23
  usually around are the years of experience aligned with the
• 35:27
  title and kind of the
• 35:28
  scope of the role and I think three to five years yes but I I
• 35:32
  totally agree too
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: with what you're saying about having the different like
• 35:36
  variety of types of experience might be difficult to get within
• 35:40
  that three to five years.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: At five years, like intermediate designer for sure.
• 35:46
  But intermediate designer in motion graphics or in non-motion
• 35:51
  graphics or in
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: typographical design.
• 35:53
  They talked about typographical design in there,
• 35:55
  too,
• 35:56
  and creation of word marks.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I personally I love typographical design.
• 36:01
  It's like it's one of my it's one of my things where if I could
• 36:04
  just spend all day
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: looking at typefaces and fonts and like looking at pairings of them,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be the happiest person on the face of the earth.
• 36:12
  But it's another thing that doesn't fit well amongst everything
• 36:17
  else that they've asked for.
• 36:19
  A good typography person who's doing these layouts and picking
• 36:24
  typography and
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: they're typically not someone who's really good at motion graphics.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's different training.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's different skill sets.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:33
  So they're putting a lot of things out there and maybe it's one
• 36:36
  of those things
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: where it's like,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: as the job seeker,
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: you might see these requirements or qualifications and think,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: oh yeah,
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like eight out of 10,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: I've got this.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same thing with the job posting, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: They're like,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: we're hoping,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: we're putting this out there hoping for,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: trying to net a unicorn or something like that.
• 36:54
  It could also be a case of they're throwing a wide net to catch
• 36:59
  someone who's good
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: at a specific sort of thing.
• 37:02
  Some agencies will put job postings out there and ask for
• 37:07
  absolutely everything,
• 37:08
  knowing that nobody's going to satisfy absolutely everything
• 37:11
  and they're still
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: going to get a ton of applications.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be one of those.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: like you could easily take if you're hiring more than one person,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: you could easily take this and be like,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: so I threw this out there.
• 37:25
  One person appears to be really strong with motion graphics and
• 37:28
  the other person
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: appears to be really strong with
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: in traditional design typography.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hire them both.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Might be a case like that.
• 37:36
  But if I was writing this job posting,
• 37:39
  I would be a little bit more transparent about that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:43
  we're hiring three designers and these three designers are
• 37:47
  going to work together
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: in like a creative pod of some sort.
• 37:51
  Like I would kind of tell the story a little bit more because
• 37:53
  this just seems a bit
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: random and disjointed.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's a good observation,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: too,
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: because when they have about 20 open job postings worldwide,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: and some of them are like designer motion graphic,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them are more specific to to a certain skill set.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So this one does seem a little bit a little bit vague for that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: That one is also in a different completely different part of the world.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: So that might be why as well.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting.
• 38:30
  Maybe what they're really looking for then is a design
• 38:34
  generalist who has the right
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: kind of experience to be able to interface with specialist designers,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: like kind of a bridge designer.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because in some agencies,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: when you're doing your creative operations design,
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: like building out your team and your structure and whatever,
• 38:50
  there are also sometimes what's called production designers or
• 38:54
  production artists.
• 38:55
  And what they do is they take the output from specialists and
• 39:01
  just play with it a
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: little bit and tweak it and marry it and turn it into different formats,
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: different sizes.
• 39:07
  And they really exist to combine the output of a couple of
• 39:11
  specialists into a
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: variety of different usable material or content for clients.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you might have, think about if you're designing a brand for a client.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the part of the brand you're working on is the logo.
• 39:26
  You might get three concepts from a specialist designer who,
• 39:31
  like,
• 39:31
  does branding.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you as the production designer would take those three concepts,
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: turn them around,
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: and cut them into 20 different options with varying,
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: sizes and colors and weights and all of this stuff.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: maybe this job posting is kind of sort of meant to be that a little bit,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: but they didn't say it.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Get off my lawn.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: there's still there's still a there's still a bit more um but that was it
• 39:59
  specifically like to the role there isn't very much there
• 40:03
  there's really like who
• 40:05
  you are which was three bullet points what you'll do which was
• 40:08
  like seven and then
• 40:10
  the requirements and the list requirements was longer than the
• 40:13
  other two combined
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: so it's interesting so now we go into why join uh why
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: why should you join our team?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Some of it is like,
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: just in general for this job posting,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: some of it,
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: the grammar,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: the way it's worded,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not wild about like,
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: For example,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: under the what you'll do,
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: they have responding to speaking clearly about instead of what you'll do,
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: respond to client briefs,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: speak clearly about.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: So the conjugation of the verb even is weird to me.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's, I don't know.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just interesting.
• 40:47
  There are a couple of little grammatical things that I,
• 40:51
  I,
• 40:52
  I guess rubbed me the wrong way.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: They clearly did not run this through their AI tools.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, and another example is why should you join our team?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why, why is it written like that?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds odd to me.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to read or to say, but that's just such a small, small thing.
• 41:12
  It's just,
• 41:13
  you know,
• 41:13
  we're deep diving into things that so that other people don't
• 41:16
  have to.
• 41:17
  And that's one of the things that for me,
• 41:18
  I just don't like the way that that's written.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: At this company,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: we don't just offer a job,
• 41:23
  we offer a creative career and an agency that moves at the
• 41:27
  speed of culture.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what you'll get.
• 41:30
  We are the first largest and most awarded socially led creative
• 41:34
  agency in the
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: world,
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: connecting you to 1300 plus like minded professionals around the world.
• 41:40
  An innovative and entrepreneurial work environment that
• 41:43
  promotes ingenuity and
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: individuality with the best of colleagues and the best of clients.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hybrid work models and flexible hours,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: plus a work from anywhere policy for short-term stays in other regions.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: Generous vacations starting at three weeks,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: plus one extra week during the summer and over the holidays.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Agency summer days, exact policy differs per campus and agency.
• 42:09
  Modern open coworking spaces with coffee and snack bars located
• 42:14
  in great city
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: neighborhoods,
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: close to shops and restaurants and easy access to public transport.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Dogs allowed, dedicated private wellness room in select offices.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Regular team social events,
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: holiday parties,
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: seasonal gatherings,
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: weekly happy hours,
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: inspiring speakers and more.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: We are obsessed with learning and being better humans.
• 42:34
  In-house learning and development sessions and annual career
• 42:37
  and growth conversations.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: access to an internal network of opportunities across all agencies,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: focus on developing and recruiting BIMPOC talent,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: internal EDI groups,
• 42:53
  programs and initiatives across this company and opportunities
• 42:59
  to be involved in
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: employee resource groups.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just gonna stop there because that was a whole heck of a lot.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, interested to hear your take.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: The BIPOC,
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: they've replaced BIPOC in this situation with BIMPOC,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Black,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Indigenous,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Multiracial,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: and Peoples of Color.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what that stood for.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know we talked a lot about acronyms and everything.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then ADI, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion.
• 43:28
  Yeah,
• 43:28
  I was wondering what the M was,
• 43:30
  because I haven't heard BIMPOC before.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I haven't either.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: and again,
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: just going back to the way some of these things are written,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: the language,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: it almost feels as though someone who...
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: English is not the first language of the person who has written this,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: or it's written from,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: maybe their people team is headquartered in a different country.
• 43:50
  And it just feels like some of the terminology,
• 43:56
  some of the ways that things are written,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: is not quite like, it's just not quite landing as smoothly to me.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is one of the things that stuck out to me.
• 44:10
  Like you mentioned,
• 44:11
  maybe this was written by someone in an HR group in a different
• 44:15
  country.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: That last section in particular,
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: with the qualifiers saying in some offices or in select offices only,
• 44:24
  that tells me that there is a corporate HR group and that that
• 44:28
  corporate HR group
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: is doing at least some level of employer branding
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: for the entire group of companies.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they're not in Canada.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: They might be in one of the other offices somewhere else.
• 44:41
  And like you say,
• 44:42
  they're putting together some of these materials for everybody
• 44:45
  to use.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's good that they have that team.
• 44:49
  I actually really like it when group companies have a
• 44:55
  centralized approach to
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: building structure.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that section also talked about progression opportunities.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like we're going to have conversations about
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: development and mentorship and, you know, training and everything.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 45:12
  You know,
• 45:12
  it's great to put that in the job posting as you follow through
• 45:15
  with it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there actually is a system.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just kind of haphazard and,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: here's 50 bucks,
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: go like get a library card or something.
• 45:26
  Like telling the candidate that they're going to be supported
• 45:32
  as they grow is very positive.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're actually doing that,
• 45:37
  hats off to them and that also like it's quite it's it's
• 45:40
  actually really smart
• 45:41
  business um when you have an approach when you have an approach
• 45:44
  or a strategy like
• 45:45
  that and you say we're going to invest in training and
• 45:49
  development uh and at the
• 45:50
  same time we're also going to have a private job board
• 45:55
  essentially they called it a
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: network of opportunities uh in in their other agency offices in the world
• 46:02
  you're essentially lowering your burden of training and
• 46:07
  onboarding new talent.
• 46:09
  by training your own internal talents and giving them pathways
• 46:13
  to move around from
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: A and B.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think about like,
• 46:16
  it seems very clear to me the kind of person that they're
• 46:19
  trying to hire here,
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: someone who's young,
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: loves traveling,
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: loves learning,
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: loves,
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: kind of mobility and whatnot.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you can say like,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: all right,
• 46:28
  we're going to keep our Paris office fed with creative energy
• 46:32
  from different parts
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: of the world whenever they need it,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: or our New York office or our Toronto office,
• 46:37
  or whatever else uh and you're doing it with your own in-house
• 46:41
  talent that's been
• 46:41
  specifically kind of like trained on the way that you do things
• 46:46
  and brings new
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: energy and ideas to your other offices that's very smart business
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot I like here.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there, it sounds very exciting.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 46:57
  everything about this job posting and when they're talking
• 46:59
  about their agency is
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: very like high energy.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: It reads as high energy to me,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: which to me feels very exhausting,
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_03: but for someone else,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: that's very exciting.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, they're,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned it like the annual career and growth conversations.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's interesting wording to me.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: I should hope that you would be having those conversations.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I would also hope that they're not happening just annually.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I would also hope that it's something beyond conversations.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's weird to me to say, like...
• 47:33
  As like a selling point,
• 47:34
  we have annual career conversations and growth conversations.
• 47:38
  Like,
• 47:39
  well,
• 47:40
  again,
• 47:40
  I should hope that you do and I should hope it goes beyond a
• 47:43
  conversation.
• 47:44
  But I'd like to know a little bit more about what that looks
• 47:46
  like because they do
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: mention like growth and learning and several bullet points.
• 47:49
  So,
• 47:50
  you know,
• 47:50
  when they're talking a lot about how much they love to learn.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that to me, I'm hopeful.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds pretty cool.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: But I'd like to know what that looks like.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think like if a company is doing,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know,
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: a bare minimum,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: it feels weird to even bullet point it,
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: but I guess you kind of have to,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Some companies don't do that.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, these are opportunities to differentiate yourselves.
• 48:16
  And I hope that companies are having career conversations,
• 48:19
  but I mean,
• 48:19
  I know that they're not.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe it does need to be highlighted.
• 48:25
  Yeah,
• 48:26
  the way that I interpreted that one was that it was about
• 48:29
  mentorship specifically.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I perhaps am like reading completely into that.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's not about mentorship.
• 48:37
  So I've been exposed to environments where their idea of career
• 48:42
  development and
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: growth is once a year,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: the employee needs to sit down with your
• 48:48
  your direct manager supervisor and talk about like stuff and be
• 48:55
  like what do you
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: want your life to be like in five years oh that's nice go and write me a
• 49:00
  professional development plan for you for next year and maybe
• 49:03
  I'll rubber stamp it
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: maybe I'll give you feedback on it maybe I won't like
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: There are organizations who treat this like that.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a performative exercise in bullshit, really.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if this is that, not great.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if it is, let's have a conversation about mentorship.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: That would be really interesting because there are not a lot of places,
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: especially smaller organizations.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is a small organization like 19 agency offices.
• 49:34
  small agency perhaps but big organization um there are not a
• 49:38
  lot of organizations
• 49:39
  that uh that give mentorship uh and knowledge transfer and
• 49:44
  experiential transfer
• 49:45
  it's um it's kind of due like that's that's missing from a lot
• 49:49
  of places and it's
• 49:50
  it's a real shame because an employee like someone who's kind
• 49:53
  of starting out their
• 49:54
  career and like growing their career they get a lot from those
• 49:58
  conversations
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that if that's what this is,
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: then I think naming it explicitly as such would be like,
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: would go above and beyond.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because to me,
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: naming it as like,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: career growth conversations is just it,
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: it's a missed opportunity if it really is,
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_03: as it should be in an organization that big.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: They should have an in house mentoring program.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: How cool.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds great.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds great.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds exciting.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, it sounds high energy.
• 50:29
  um and all the it also sounds like it has the typical startup
• 50:33
  type things like the
• 50:34
  dogs woohoo and weekly happy hours not crazy about that show me
• 50:38
  an appy hour and
• 50:40
  i'm all over it but happy hours you know just it's implying
• 50:44
  that there's alcohol
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: involved
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that belongs in the workplace.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: I know so many people will disagree, but I am after all HR.
• 50:55
  And so I don't want to feed into people's addictions and things
• 50:58
  like that.
• 50:59
  Like when companies have,
• 51:01
  I don't know,
• 51:01
  I worked for a company that had like a,
• 51:04
  quarterly poker game and all i could think was like it's one
• 51:09
  thing if you want to
• 51:10
  take that offline and do that with your friends but it's a
• 51:13
  whole other thing to
• 51:13
  like open up the office after hours and like have catering and
• 51:18
  an open bar and all
• 51:19
  this stuff like it's just feeding into people's potential
• 51:22
  addictions and that's
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: really terrifying to me um it doesn't feel very responsible
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 51:30
  the advertising industry's kind of flirtation with alcohol in
• 51:36
  good times over the
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: decades is like,
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: that is a thing.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: For sure it is.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: The industry as a whole is a lot more cut and dry than they used to be.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Even when I was working in advertising, it was a little bit like...
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is very, geez, the taps are open about that.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that was in the early 2010s sort of thing.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: Finance.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, lots of industries, lots of tech startups.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_03: I worked in one where there was a keg, you know, in the lunchroom.
• 52:08
  And it was to say that people weren't just going in and having
• 52:12
  little sippy poos.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what else to say.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Drinks throughout the day.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, whatever.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: I sound like such a square.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really not.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like you really,
• 52:27
  we know so much more now than we did before and people are
• 52:29
  struggling with so much
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: and
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 52:35
  it work to have all these other temptations on top of it when
• 52:39
  you're really just
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: there to do a job and that's it.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it I don't know.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it really complicated.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's more.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's more.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're not done yet.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: We were in the why join.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: No, why should you join our team?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: We invest in your health and wellness.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: So speaking of health and wellness and all of those things.
• 53:01
  Flexible benefits to support your individual lifestyle and life
• 53:04
  stage with access
• 53:06
  to a personal wellness spending account you can use for a wide
• 53:08
  range of wellness
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: expenses,
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_03: including gym membership fees,
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: pet care,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: education expenses,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: and much more!
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: This posting is riddled with exclamation points.
• 53:20
  I'm just not putting the emphasis on them,
• 53:22
  but I probably should have been.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: Comprehensive mental health support,
• 53:26
  including access to a virtual mental health therapy clinic
• 53:29
  providing you with
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: personalized therapists,
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: guided ICBT programs,
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: and live therapy,
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: access to health clinicians 24-7,
• 53:39
  and a holistic array of other health and holistic array of
• 53:42
  other health and
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: wellness resources to support you and your family.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: I just read it the way it's written.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, there are a few weird grammatical things here.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: I've mentioned that.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that was just a...
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: A weird, they just didn't review it properly, I think.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the health and wellness.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's still more.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if there's anything there you want to go deeper on.
• 54:06
  I mean,
• 54:08
  I like that they are I like that they're listing these things
• 54:13
  because.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: What I find with a lot of organizations,
• 54:18
  when they're putting together their employer branding kind of
• 54:21
  strategy and figuring
• 54:23
  out how to communicate the benefits of working for the
• 54:26
  organization beyond the
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: paycheck and kind of supplementary to the mission,
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: the purpose,
• 54:34
  A lot of organizations skip this stuff because they think it
• 54:38
  won't be meaningful.
• 54:39
  But some of the most meaningful supplementary things you can
• 54:43
  attach to a job
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: posting are things like this that don't really cost a whole lot,
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 54:49
  Like even saying things like,
• 54:52
  you know,
• 54:52
  you've got access to virtual mental health care.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's not just chat GPT.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: But even if it's just,
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 55:01
  we're going to pay for a subscription to Telus Health or one of
• 55:05
  the other providers
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: that do this sort of thing,
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: cool,
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: great.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, put that in there.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Some people will just skip over.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 55:14
  I probably would skip over something like that and think it
• 55:16
  doesn't really mean a
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: whole lot to me.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: But for the person who does really find that to be a useful benefit,
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: they're going to gravitate to this a whole lot more because of that.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the pets thing, like,
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Same sort of thing.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: I worked with a chap who had an adorable... I forget what the breed is.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's an Asian breed.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: She knows something or other.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Super, super cute.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: Super full of attitude.
• 55:45
  He didn't want to leave his dog at home in his condo all day
• 55:48
  because the dog would...
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: go mental and probably destroy all this stuff.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like, can I bring the dog to the office?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody had ever asked that before and nobody kind of knew the answer.
• 55:57
  So we had to go through our lease and be like,
• 55:59
  can we have pets in the office?
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are we liable for like, you know, stains and like fur and whatever?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are our responsibilities as the lessee sort of thing?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually someone just said, someone in leadership just said,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Fuck it.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let me bring the dog to the office.
• 56:12
  And I tell you,
• 56:13
  that one act of saying,
• 56:15
  yes,
• 56:15
  you can bring your dog to the office.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: It meant so much to him.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't clear that it would before that conversation happened.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this dog just became beloved by the entire office.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody loved the dog.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: there's a picture of me in,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: 2022,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: laying on the carpeted floor in the office with this dog with,
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: my mask on because it's COVID.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just, like, having a little scritchy.
• 56:44
  Like,
• 56:44
  I'm going to take five minutes and lay on the floor with this
• 56:46
  dog and scratch its neck.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's therapeutic.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's another thing too, right?
• 56:53
  Like if you're trying to create this environment where people
• 56:59
  are supported and
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: they're healthy and you're thinking about like the whole being,
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: whole body wellness,
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: like health,
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: mental,
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: emotional,
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: whatever,
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_00: having pets in the office,
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: as long as they're not too distracting,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: makes a big difference.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Makes a really big difference.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's again,
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm always saying yes,
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: but because I worked in a dog-friendly office,
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: a tech company,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: and I myself would bring one of my dogs in,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: and we had an employee who was
• 57:33
  terrified of dogs she was she was originally from a different
• 57:37
  country um where and
• 57:40
  even like i have a mexican background my mom is like dogs are
• 57:43
  vermin why would you
• 57:44
  get a dog like she was just completely stunned that i got a dog
• 57:49
  when i did um but
• 57:51
  yeah so this this one person was terrified of dogs for her it
• 57:55
  was it made going to
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: work
• 57:57
  like a traumatic experience and so i don't know maybe there's
• 58:01
  some like better hr
• 58:02
  pros out there who have navigated this situation before because
• 58:06
  on the one hand i
• 58:07
  am a dog owner i love dogs i love having dogs in the office but
• 58:10
  i can also feel for
• 58:12
  this person who struggled every single day to come into an
• 58:15
  office where there were
• 58:15
  just dogs roaming around and like we tried to implement rules
• 58:19
  like keep them close
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_03: to your desk and they're not just like free range
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_03: all over the office.
• 58:24
  But dogs are going to dog and they're going to go wander around
• 58:29
  and see people.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that that's a difficult one too, right?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: That might be a drawing point for someone.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's allergies too, right?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: There are allergies.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are allergic to dogs.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: I have one hypoallergenic dog and one that's not.
• 58:45
  And that was the only one that I would bring to the office for
• 58:48
  exactly that reason.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's difficult to know.
• 58:53
  in a hybrid situation i think there's an easy solution it's
• 58:55
  kind of like here are
• 58:56
  the days where dogs will be in the office um but it doesn't
• 58:59
  help with the allergies
• 59:00
  but it helps with anybody who has a fear of of dogs um you know
• 59:06
  stay home when the
• 59:06
  dogs are there i i don't know i don't know but i can see it
• 59:10
  being a selling point
• 59:11
  and that i can see it being a deterrent for some people i think
• 59:13
  that that category
• 59:15
  is like a much smaller category but it's just like things
• 59:18
  things to think about
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: right like you do have to be honest of the fact that
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: especially if you're going to be in like a diverse environment,
• 59:28
  there's going to be different lived experiences and different
• 59:30
  cultural backgrounds.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: on that kind of thought,
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: like maybe that's another good reason to kind of pick a position,
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: and say,
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:43
  we're going to be a dog friendly office and we're really going
• 59:46
  to communicate it
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: heavily and whatnot.
• 59:48
  So everybody who comes into a role there,
• 59:53
  they know they know they're going to be dogs there.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: if it's not for you,
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: then at least,
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: upfront for you,
• 1:00:00
  accept an offer before you invest time in interviewing this
• 1:00:02
  company and saying,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to work here.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, dogs, I can't do dogs.
• 1:00:07
  It would be really interesting if somebody was like,
• 1:00:10
  I would love to work here.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do dogs.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can you make an accommodation for me?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: That would get really messy.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it's and this is and again,
• 1:00:21
  this goes back to like what I what I firmly believe is that
• 1:00:24
  we're functioning in
• 1:00:26
  like frameworks and workplace processes built on a workplace
• 1:00:32
  that doesn't exist
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: anymore.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like these are these are newer type
• 1:00:38
  issues that we're trying to navigate and um you can't just yeah
• 1:00:43
  you can't just
• 1:00:43
  apply like old ways of thinking to new ways of working it just
• 1:00:46
  doesn't it just
• 1:00:48
  doesn't fly so um yeah you and you mentioned this too i think
• 1:00:53
  listing what benefits
• 1:00:54
  you have a lot of people will say like we've got great benefits
• 1:00:57
  well what are they
• 1:00:58
  i would love to know uh what they are a little bit more
• 1:01:01
  detailed the way that this
• 1:01:02
  one has detailed i think that's great it's important to people
• 1:01:05
  again different
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_03: we're in a different work
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: like vibe right now.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's completely different.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so things like this are very important.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is it family coverage?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are the premiums paid for by the company?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is it a split?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like that can be a differentiator for someone too.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah.
• 1:01:27
  And then quick note,
• 1:01:29
  ICBT is inference-based cognitive behavioral therapy.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_03: Just so that- Okay.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that one either.
• 1:01:38
  um and then there's more yes of course there's more I've been
• 1:01:44
  saying so many
• 1:01:45
  fucking words there's got to be more there's got to be more
• 1:01:49
  again when you go to
• 1:01:50
  the like the the the meat of the role itself it's so short this
• 1:01:53
  is how you know
• 1:01:54
  it's like all about marketing and promotion because the rest of
• 1:01:57
  it is all just like
• 1:01:58
  here's why we're so wonderful not that there's anything wrong
• 1:02:01
  with that we ask for
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: more of that
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: in other episodes.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_03: So join us.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: At this company, we celebrate diverse perspectives and experiences.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_03: We welcome unique voices and talents,
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: especially those not traditionally embraced by advertising.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: Discover more about our culture and work.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think there was a link here that I removed.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: Creating meaningful work means embracing different perspectives.
• 1:02:23
  We are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate
• 1:02:26
  based on age,
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: color,
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: ability,
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: national origin,
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: race,
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: religion,
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: sex,
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: or sexual orientation.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_03: Not only are these provisions protected by provincial and federal law,
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: embracing difference is what makes this company what it is.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: and we wouldn't have it any other way.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: We pride ourselves on our inclusive and accessible workplace.
• 1:02:44
  If you need any accommodations during the interview process to
• 1:02:47
  make it work for
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: you,
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: let us know.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do cool stuff together.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: Apply now.
• 1:02:53
  And it goes on about another part of the entrepreneurial
• 1:02:56
  network that they're part of.
• 1:02:58
  It's a unique partnership of forward thinking creative agencies
• 1:03:02
  as a network.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: We unabashedly believe anything is possible.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 1:03:06
  Because possibility is what powers the big dreams and limitless
• 1:03:09
  drive of an
• 1:03:10
  entrepreneur and entrepreneurial agencies are what we're made
• 1:03:14
  of a whole network of
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: them together with
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_03: Blank agencies,
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: we use our collective strengths to form bespoke,
• 1:03:22
  innovative and integrative integrated teams that deliver a
• 1:03:25
  positive impact on your
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: business.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: That means faster time to market,
• 1:03:28
  less bureaucracy to navigate and no end to the creative magic
• 1:03:32
  making of our
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: clients.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: And there, that's it.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: OK, that was it was it was interesting.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: So they said we don't discriminate provincial and federal law,
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: but they also kind of took it one step further and said,
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: because it's the right thing to do and it makes for better business.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good for them for staking out that position that it's it's quite smart.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to be a cynical bugger here for a second,
• 1:04:01
  but it's very smart for them to do that because it's going to
• 1:04:06
  create a friction
• 1:04:09
  point or a barrier to dissuade people who don't share those
• 1:04:15
  kind of values.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:17
  Like there are some people who would read that particular part
• 1:04:20
  and be like,
• 1:04:20
  oh,
• 1:04:20
  yeah.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my God.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest,
• 1:04:26
  it sounds like they don't want people who kind of have that
• 1:04:31
  particular mindset
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: working in their agency anyway.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of positioning this up there,
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: up front,
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: out there to be like,
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: this is what we're all about.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't like it, they didn't say this, I'm saying it.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't like it, fuck off.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's smart.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's smart because there is, because advertising is so creative,
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: compared to a lot of industries.
• 1:04:55
  Morale and cultural and value clash problems have an outsized
• 1:05:02
  effect on the
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: productivity of the business.
• 1:05:04
  If you have teams that don't work really well together in this
• 1:05:08
  industry,
• 1:05:08
  you're done.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like in other industries, you can't work around it, right?
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: you go sit in that desk over there,
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: you go sit in that desk over there like we're good.
• 1:05:17
  We'll put you in your corners and just don't like yell at each
• 1:05:20
  other in the office
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: that we'll make it work.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: But in advertising,
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:05:24
  you're toast because you're selling time and the output of that
• 1:05:27
  time has to be has
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: to be really,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: really creative stuff that someone will pay for.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't want to pay for it, your clients are going to be fired.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have harmony in the office.
• 1:05:40
  So they're kind of thinking about that and putting that into
• 1:05:43
  the job posting,
• 1:05:44
  which I like.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's smart.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: It also kind of aligns with my values, too.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, I kind of dig this.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there are other people who it's not going to align with their values.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: At least they're being upfront and clear about it.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_03: I like it too.
• 1:05:59
  I think it goes a little bit beyond the whole equal opportunity
• 1:06:03
  and we will
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: accommodate you during the interview process statement.
• 1:06:07
  There's a little bit more to it and putting it out there like
• 1:06:09
  that,
• 1:06:10
  I think is great.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: But that's it.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, there is no salary listed.
• 1:06:18
  And we talked about this,
• 1:06:22
  the two of us,
• 1:06:23
  about how this is a job in Ontario and as of...
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: January 1st,
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: January 2nd,
• 1:06:29
  2026 pay transparency and job posting is required in the
• 1:06:36
  province of Ontario for
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: employers with 25 or more employees.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: I checked the posting again because it's still live and it's not there.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really interesting to me,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: but because it's,
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_03: and there,
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_03: and there are fines,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: like you,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: if you're not compliant with this,
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: it,
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: people,
• 1:06:57
  job seekers can file a complaint to the ministry of labor and
• 1:07:01
  that would trigger a
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: formal investigation.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: Not only can corporations be fined, it's,
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's like 100K for their first conviction.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: It increases, so it goes up every time you continue to not comply.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_03: not just the organization,
• 1:07:25
  individuals like directors within the organization can also be
• 1:07:29
  held liable for
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: these violations.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a big deal.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big deal to not have salaries posted.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, there's probably going to be a grace period.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: But again, it's just one of those things where in this day and age,
• 1:07:42
  why why wouldn't you post it the only reason you wouldn't post
• 1:07:46
  a salary range in a
• 1:07:48
  job posting is for like sketchy nefarious reasons and i don't
• 1:07:52
  like it so yeah yeah
• 1:07:55
  it no good there's no good reason why at this point so i don't
• 1:08:00
  it's it's it's
• 1:08:01
  january 5th today and you mentioned that it's been reposted uh
• 1:08:05
  was was this on
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: linkedin did you find the job posting on linkedin
• 1:08:07
  yeah okay so i i am guessing that the person that's responsible
• 1:08:11
  for this just like
• 1:08:12
  hit the repost button and didn't even look at it again and it
• 1:08:15
  might even be one
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: more clue that the person who wrote it or posting posted it isn't
• 1:08:22
  in maybe this country or really not in this province uh because
• 1:08:28
  they're they're
• 1:08:29
  breaking the rules here by not doing that so it's so it's
• 1:08:31
  interesting but that
• 1:08:32
  being said i'm curious as to what you think that the salary
• 1:08:36
  could or should be for
• 1:08:38
  this role yeah uh you said it was hybrid and it was in toronto
• 1:08:42
  right okay so i i
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: would probably place the value of this job
• 1:08:50
  uh zero to five years experience i'd probably put this at 60 to
• 1:08:56
  80 that would be my
• 1:08:58
  guess um yeah that that that would be my guess and probably
• 1:09:07
  five six years ago it
• 1:09:08
  would have been less than that because this this type of job
• 1:09:12
  there are there are a
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: ton of people
• 1:09:16
  um in the labor market who who could do this job like there's
• 1:09:22
  there there's very
• 1:09:23
  little um there's very little supply side crusher on this job
• 1:09:28
  like there's there's
• 1:09:29
  tons of designers out there like just they're all over the
• 1:09:32
  place um not all of them
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: are good
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: But there's tons of them.
• 1:09:37
  Unfortunately,
• 1:09:39
  supply and demand is a big driver of wages,
• 1:09:42
  of salary,
• 1:09:43
  right?
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when you have more designers than can possibly be employed,
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: that's gonna depress wages,
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: which sucks.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's capitalism, but it is what it is.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'd say 60 to 80 would be what I'd be doing on this job.
• 1:09:59
  I think I was I was thinking more like 70 to 90 and I was just
• 1:10:02
  basing it on kind of
• 1:10:03
  folks I know and companies I've worked at before who've had
• 1:10:06
  similar type in house
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_03: roles.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: But we will never know because it's not posted.
• 1:10:14
  I'm going to stock this posting and see if they do update at
• 1:10:19
  any point and I'll
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_03: follow up with you to see.
• 1:10:22
  whether or not we were on the mark um one thing to note too is
• 1:10:26
  that like the my
• 1:10:28
  overall read on this role is that it sounds like we said really
• 1:10:32
  exciting it sounds
• 1:10:33
  very much like written to um I don't know entice younger crowd
• 1:10:41
  younger generation
• 1:10:42
  um and the company it sounds amazing like they've got they say
• 1:10:45
  a lot of the right
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_03: things they sound super like
• 1:10:49
  with it and understand what it is that the younger generation
• 1:10:52
  is looking for and needs.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_03: However,
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_03: I did look in the Glassdoor and the Glassdoor review,
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_03: the overall rating,
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_03: average rating is 3.2.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I pulled a quote that was my favorite.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not fair of me to do this because I cherry picked one
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_03: negative quote from Glassdoor,
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_03: but it was,
• 1:11:12
  it just goes to show like what you're reading in a job posting
• 1:11:16
  and all the things
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: that they say might not actually be the case,
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: That might not be the reality of working in that organization.
• 1:11:23
  And so the quote was,
• 1:11:24
  toilets are not fit for the amount of time you will spend
• 1:11:28
  crying in them.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Bravo, bravo to whoever wrote that.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Haven't we all been there before?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that person works in marketing, in other words.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't really talk about this, but this industry is brutal.
• 1:11:49
  Even for agencies that are very supportive and have strong
• 1:11:54
  leadership teams and
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: have some respect for boundaries,
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: the very nature of the work that they do
• 1:12:01
  And the fact that it's professional services at the end of the
• 1:12:04
  day means that you
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: are really being driven by the expectation of your clients.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And clients are not always nice.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Clients are sometimes nice in professional services, creative services.
• 1:12:20
  The way a lot of organizations that hire agencies look at
• 1:12:23
  agencies is like,
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hiring you because you have to.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I hate you.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: I hate your billing models.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I hate everything about you.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like you, but I need you.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's work.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can imagine what that dynamic creates, right?
• 1:12:35
  And when you have an account manager who's getting kind of
• 1:12:38
  pooped on by their client,
• 1:12:40
  And they're like,
• 1:12:41
  that's all bottled up and they don't have a great outlet to
• 1:12:44
  deal with that.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: They go and poop on other people who work with them.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other people poop on other people.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And there's just like,
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: before you know it,
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: there's just shit flying around the agency and you're like,
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: oh my God,
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: this is so ridiculous.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So in agencies, like in advertising agencies,
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not for the faint of heart.
• 1:13:07
  Like,
• 1:13:08
  yeah,
• 1:13:08
  that person,
• 1:13:09
  even though it's one comment,
• 1:13:12
  it's pretty on point.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times being stressed the fuck out.
• 1:13:16
  Yeah,
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_03: it can be the nature of the role itself versus like,
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: inherently some roles are just going to be
• 1:13:24
  Megan Faulkner Browning & Challenging some industries are just
• 1:13:26
  going to be really,
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: really difficult.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it could be more as a result that there was stuff about management,
• 1:13:32
  the typical glass door reviews that you see about managing
• 1:13:35
  management meeting
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_03: together shit together.
• 1:13:37
  Megan Faulkner Browning & Like that's yeah that's not special
• 1:13:40
  to this organization,
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_03: but I don't know if it were in my field.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_03: If I were a heck of a lot younger than I am now.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think that this would be,
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_03: this would seem like a really exciting place to learn,
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:13:55
  to just kind of create a foundation of learning and experience
• 1:13:59
  under my belt.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to rate this job posting?
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'd give this one a I'd give this one like a seven.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was pretty good.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was pretty good.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Despite my despite my criticisms of it, it was it was pretty good.
• 1:14:17
  The one thing that I would kind of do differently if I was the
• 1:14:21
  the person writing
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: this was the job seeker seeker.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would have maybe like 15% less fluffy wordy BS.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're right that like, you know, it's marketing.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: We need to market our organization.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they did do a lot of that,
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: which for some of the ones we've looked at,
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: huge missed opportunity.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_00: But this one, this one's, it's a little, it's a little much.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And some of it is not actually meaningful.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, you know, kind of like, doesn't this sound cool?
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, we're cool.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I agree.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think I would say seven out of 10 as well.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_03: I just find that the actual meat of what the role is,
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_03: it's quite short and the rest is a whole lot of,
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of fluff,
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of like,
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_03: look how cool we are,
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: which is totally fine.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Again,
• 1:15:15
  I think that's why it reads just like they're trying to attract
• 1:15:18
  a certain type of
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_03: generation,
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_03: a certain type of person.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_03: But there was a lot that I liked about it too.
• 1:15:25
  um so not bad not bad for sure a job posting did also do a very
• 1:15:30
  very good job at
• 1:15:32
  kind of glossing over one of the fundamental things about power
• 1:15:36
  dynamics in an
• 1:15:37
  agency when you're a designer uh when you are a designer
• 1:15:41
  working in an agency you
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_00: you do not have power and you do not have authority and you do not have
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Terrible pun, you do not have agency.
• 1:15:54
  So that person who you found the comment where it was like
• 1:15:58
  toilets insufficient for
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_00: the amount of time spent crying in them,
• 1:16:01
  that person could have been the outgoing designer that this
• 1:16:03
  woman was replacing.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that this job would not be without its drama.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think there would be a lot going on.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think it would be very interesting.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you would spend a lot of your life doing the work.
• 1:16:20
  um but yeah foundational learning for sure i think everyone
• 1:16:25
  needs an experience
• 1:16:25
  like that at some point in their career where you wake up and
• 1:16:28
  realize you've just
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_03: spent like
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_03: three years doing only that.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_03: If I was in my 20s and a designer, I'd apply for this.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's how I feel too.
• 1:16:40
  This is so right up my alley and just the ability to travel and
• 1:16:44
  go to different
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_03: offices and things like that,
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think would just be phenomenal.
• 1:16:47
  So I would be willing to overlook some of the other things just
• 1:16:50
  to be able to do that.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, with that, I think we can consider this post roasted.
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• 1:17:27
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• 1:17:29
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