Latest / Books4Guys / What If George Washington Returned? William Gensburger on American History, Leadership, Patriotism, and the Future of the Nation

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What If George Washington Returned? William Gensburger on American History, Leadership, Patriotism, and the Future of the Nation · Books4Guys

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into today's episode, I want to thank our executive development partner, Standard Pursuit.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Founded by Hunter Didrickson, Standard Pursuit is a coaching community built for founders, entrepreneurs, and high performers who are ready to step into the next version of themselves.
• 0:16
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• 0:27
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• 0:34
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• 0:43
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• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get to today's episode.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really wanted to wear that for this interview.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, William, it is an honor to talk with you and very excited to talk about your book.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to make sure I say the title just to kick things off.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: The Path of Duty and Honor If George Washington Returned.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love where it's got the novel for America's 250th year.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking about how it couldn't be more perfect timing for you and JC.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is a co-authored book for you guys to like.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: He should not be here today because he is out in Namibia.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: A little far from you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: But he he's he said, send the link, send the link.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I will do that as soon as we're done.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, sounds good.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, William, just to kick things off, I'd love to give you the mic for just a couple minutes.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love for you just to give an overview of the inspiration behind getting together and writing this novel and just your thoughts behind it, the timing of it, and just how it all came together.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to do that.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And thanks for having me.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it's an interesting story.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: In 2010, a good friend of mine who's an ABC News anchor in San Francisco, Dan Ashley, we would hang out and he said, let's do a screenplay.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: We thought, yeah, we could do a screenplay, you know, make it big.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: He had this idea from years earlier when he was in South Carolina.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: He said, It'd be kind of cool if George Washington came back.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so we did.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: We bounced it around.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: We wrote a handful of drafts.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: It never finished and it never went anywhere.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then he got distracted doing other things, including a music career that he now has.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it sort of went on the shelf for a while.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I got around to asking him.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, would it be okay if I try to make a novel out of it?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, yeah, but my blessing, go for it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I took the basics of what we had started, which is really just the idea of George Washington appearing, the principal characters, although they weren't really overly defined at the time.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it percolated and percolated.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd have these images of the books starting with George Washington in his full outfit on horseback, charging through traffic, getting on top of cars for some reason, had undefined.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, flash forward a couple more years.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And another good friend of mine, which is JC Ryan, who's a best-selling author, he's got like 35 books, and I've known him for about 10 years.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, look, you know, we're coming up on the 250th anniversary.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: This would be a perfect time to bring George Washington back.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so we went back and forth on that for a while.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't want it to be a clone.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want it to be time travel.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want it to be a ghost.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is George Washington.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be George Washington.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't explain how he got there.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I thought, well, that's kind of irrelevant.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as you'll see in the course of the book, we actually prove that he is actually George Washington.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not giving anything away with that.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But he's a little better version, though.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's about early 50s, 53, 54.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's got reddish-brown hair, good teeth, which is a plus, because if you know any history about George, he had a heck of a time with the dentists.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then we needed to find a really good story to go with it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so the idea was he's back now to save America.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: But specifically, he's back to actually save the president of the United States, who in this non-political novel, nonpartisan novel, I should say, is a female president.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh but you you kind of get a sense of where she's coming from.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: But with the course of him coming back, it gives us an opportunity to really go back and dig into the history, which is itself fascinating.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so everything in this novel is historically accurate.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the words he says are historically accurate also, but if you ever read any of his writings, he's he goes on and on and on.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to make them a little bit more concise.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a lot of fun.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we sat down.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, he I'm I'm in America.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: He at the time was in Australia.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so the way we would do it was video chats like this and bounce ideas.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, this works, this doesn't work.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then one of us would start the draft for the chapter.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then it would be sent to the other one who dissect it, say, no, no, I'm not too bad, I don't like this, send it back, and we'd go back and forth a few times until we had something that was good, but also a combination of our writing styles as well.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's essentially what happened.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is so, so fascinating.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And just I just think your idea and what you put together is so incredible because again, just the timing and someone who follows history, and it uh it just it's a unique storyline, and it actually really does create some thought-provoking uh scenarios where you're you know, the main question is like, what would George Washington think if he was here today?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: What would be his initial thoughts on just the the state of our country, the state of the world, how everything works together?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just what would his thoughts be and how would he uh walk through those?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I had wanted to have some ads that says George is back and he's pissed.
• 6:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: But but it is a dichotomy.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's an extreme contrast if you look at what these people, not just him, obviously, the degree of thought and work that went into drafting the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, to really try to guess all the pitfalls that could happen and give opportunities to correct.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: We've gone a long way since then, and I think we've gone astray in in many areas, especially in our government, which I think we need to have some back to basics, so to speak.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a good opportunity to kind of do that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because how do you argue with George Washington when he comes, you know, before a modern Congress and says, hey, let's chat?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, you don't, and it's him.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things we found pretty much universally, the readers love George Washington.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I we'd been getting comments like, I wish that that he was around in our time now.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I wish this the way he handled things was the way we handle it now.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: People are wanting a sequel.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like, we don't know about that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Bring back Lincoln.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think that's just, you know, too much of a good thing is not a good thing.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, and that did that did get me thinking, though, and not that you guys have to put this type of work out there, but each president, especially that had an impact, you know, like in Abe Lincoln.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be interesting to bring, you know, him back and say, hey, here's where we're at now.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about this?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, based off what you fought for and kind of the you know, some of the things he planted his flag in and and made an impact.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's probably a handful of presidents that you could do that with, and it'd be a really fascinating story and and again, thoughts on what their view would be.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: You run the danger, though, that it would become like everything when you do something for the first time, it's always novel, and then you run the risk that it's going to be watered down for the sake of selling a few books.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't want that, which was why, for example, we don't tell you how he came to be.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, George Washington would say it was Providence.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he actually does say that in the book.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no uh you don't need to know how he came back.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fact of the matter is something pulled him back.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so and it draws on a lot of different uh things like Mount Vernon and and all the elements around what would have been George Washington's life.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so it makes it a lot of fun.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun to write.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting too, William.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was having this discussion the other day because when you hear 1776, it kind of sounds like a very long time ago.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Then when you look at 250 years and you think, okay, if my grandparents lived to be 90, my parents did like it's only a handful of generations that have come across and been here since the inception of America.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that many people look at look at what's changed.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, 1776, no antibiotics.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's the point.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: How much has changed in those 250 years and and and some of the stuff you hinted at too, just some of the chaos we've put ourselves in in that quick span of time as well, to where, yeah, I think everyone agrees there needs to be some change for the better to kind of get ourselves on a path that's a little bit uh more in line with the constitution.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that I was looking for something there like that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it is intriguing because I think, and again, I think more people probably agree with that than disagree.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think it's a fascinating, just a different way to explore the thoughts on this is having this theoretical idea that if George Washington came back, would he be proud?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Would you know, a ask Congress and Senate that question.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: What what would he think?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what are we doing here?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the fact that 250 years later is beyond most uh governmental structures.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most empires don't last 200 plus years.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that we're still standing is a good sign.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: What we do with it, of course, is a whole other question.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you one thing that that the other reason I thought it was a good story.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Voting turnout's abysmal.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: The average person doesn't know, they couldn't name you the three people in, you know, in line of secession from the president down.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the founding principles was the fact that it's a republic, and I don't remember which one of them said it, but it's a republic as long as you can keep it, and it requires an informed populace in order to do that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, I think, where we've gone astray because we're so busy with shiny objects now.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of information has gone by the wayside.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we are not, we were, it was originally intended that we were the ones to keep government in check.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the media too, that's another story.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: But between that, those two, the government was would not be corrupt because they would always be held accountable to us.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: But now most people feel the government is running us, and most people don't feel empowered to be able to do anything to change anything.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that was an interesting angle that we wanted to explore.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think it resonates in the book because we talk about it a lot.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like where where what's the line that's drawn?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But and we also wanted to have a good fun book.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a fun story.
• 11:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: George Bullet goes on a book tour.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And but you know, so I and and that's I think one of the most positive things that we've received, aside from liking George Washington, is just it was a fun read.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: They liked the read, and that's what we wanted entertainment.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not lecturing you.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're not bashing you on the head with this political view or that political view, but no, and I think that's why, again, this is such a good book, because in you know, it's entertaining, but it does also make you think.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I love books like that.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you and I was actually gonna ask you a couple of questions of just like, what were some things that you in your research discovered that, you know, while trying to make things entertaining, may have troubled you a little bit to find out and kind of see the trajectory that's taken place.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you mentioned something very strong there, and and I agree because even with me and my friends and people I talk to about, you know, politics, and I don't I don't really talk politics that much, but a lot of us don't think we have that much of an impact.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, it doesn't seem like what we think really matters, and it doesn't seem like we can really make a difference, and it doesn't matter who gets elected, they're not really listening to us.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what's the point of wasting our time to go stand in line and and vote?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a horrible way to think.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems that every election cycle that gets worse and worse because we're not getting what we're voting for.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't even matter which side of the aisle you're on because both sides feel that way.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, correct.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think um again, it comes back down to people need to be involved.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest one.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's involved.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you see this problem in the news all the time, not even at a government level, but at a school board level.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have the school board members are totally ignoring their constituents.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's only one solution.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: People have to get involved.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: We outnumber everybody else.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: If people get together, we're a much larger body of people.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, every I think all these groups are counting on the fact we're very apathetic, be bothered, it's work, somebody else will take care of it.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in that regard, it's a decay of what was originally intended.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and really the question now comes down to okay, well, that's a natural byproduct, but can they do anything about it?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Can they can we fix it?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can the people do something about it?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can't count on the government to do something about it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know the answer to that question, to be honest with you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're all sort of waiting and watching.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: The alternatives aren't good.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it seemed like, you know, when you look back in history, patriotism, if nothing else, could motivate people to step up and get involved.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm thinking even, you know, in my era, I do remember 9-11, and I remember just the last big patriotic moment.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the American flags everywhere, people together.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been in I've lived in certain cities where things happen and you see people rally together in a in a little bit of a smaller way.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: But even now, patriotism, i it's almost been you gotta be careful even to put an American flag out because someone judges you for a certain way, and you're like, Well, hold on a second.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all here together and it's the greatest country.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they've gave they've given it a label, and part of that's a political label.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are patriotic, you have to be conservative.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they it's it's unfortunate.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh and it's also unfortunate you hear so many people in this country it's like, well, what's there to be proud of in America?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, the fact that you can actually say that is point number one.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So because go try that in some other countries.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I think it's I think it's it's complicated and and difficult and but I hate to say it because if you look in his history, historically, we band together in bad times.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So a world war or, you know, a terrorist attack.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but who wants that?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh do we need to call on that in order so we all get together again and and act normally?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't yeah, there's gotta be a more logical way than that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm asking these questions, all kind of geared towards your book and wondering what George Washington, if he was to stand up in the pulpit and and have some sort of magical speech to unite the country, what would that look like?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what are some things he could say to get everybody on the same page to to want to move forward together?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a very noble thing to think about and want, and and it makes you want it to happen.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: George Washington to come back and let's see what this you see what what what he can do, because um, yeah, it feels like it would take someone like that to be able to really you know, swing the pendulum, sort of say.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: The nice thing we we introduce him with um a couple with a bunch of other people, obviously.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Nathan, uh Nathan's an author who actually wrote a book called By George, which has in it a controversial thing that George Washington had an illegitimate child.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he's making bank and book signings, and he's the one that actually finds George Washington and is connected to him and Nathan's 15-year-old rebellious son Tommy, and then a news reporter, Sarah.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the three of them sort of wind up developing a relationship with George and and help each other through finding out why George is there, which leads them through an interesting path.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: But but I think what also resonates with readership is is that interaction.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we if you meet a celebrity, for example, most of the time people are in awe.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: They don't know what to say, they forget, oh, it's just a human being that puts the pants on the same way we all do.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've got that label.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so here we've got a big celebrity.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, George Washington is a big celebrity.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so we get to deal with him, though, on a human level, as though he was a roommate.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so you get that added benefit of really getting to know the guy in a lot of different ways that you wouldn't if you read about it in a newspaper, for example.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I think that's the other fun part, is is it's it's the it's a growth that they all have together.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course he finds out why he's there.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But there are a lot of other interesting little bits along the way.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's fun.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the history part was fascinating too, because we did a lot of research on it, and that included um and this of course you can do nowadays because with AI and uh you know the internet, you can go to a location you haven't been and stand in front of something you will never see and actually get that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were able to do a lot of research on that.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that includes, I mean, I found some interesting things, not in the book.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: George Washington died.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: He could have lived.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: He wound up going out in the cold, wet weather, and he got uh inflammation.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, what's that thing at the back of your throat called?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: The epiglottis or uvulates got I don't remember the name.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, it puffed up and blocked his airways.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course, back then what they would do is bloodletting.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they're draining your blood to try to take care of the demons or whatever.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they wound up taking four pints of blood out of him.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have like five in us.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, my pints are quotes, but no, uh I don't remember, actually.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever it was, four out of five of his blood was gone.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: One of the doctors, he had a team of doctors, and one of them said, Well, let's uh, you know, he's not breathing, let's put a hole right here.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Oh no, no, that's too dangerous, it's gonna kill him, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Tracheotomy.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It would have actually saved his life, but the downside was if he had an infection from that, they didn't have antibiotics.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean it was a better shot than what he had.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So basically the poor guy bled to death and was so weak and didn't put it in the book.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't cheery.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the history part was just fascinating and the locations and when you sit down, for example, Mount Vernon.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: The size of Mount Vernon today is only a shadow of what it once was when he owned it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So things that we don't know that we just superficially see over, so gloss over, I should say.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I I was gonna ask you what were some things that you learned through your discovery that shocked you, or or what are some things you learned that most of us would never know or take the.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I would say shocked.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I entertained would be a better word.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: The man was I okay, so imagine the the real George with the gray hair and and the bone teeth and couldn't really eat at the dinner parties.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: He hosted a lot of parties, and uh he was a good dancer and a great entertainer.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the interesting thing was people would just come to his house and stay for weeks.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, he wrote down, he said, You you know, I'm a public servant, I can't tell them to go away.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And while they're there, he's feeding them, and basically it's coming out of his pocket, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So a completely different uh set of times, but a fascinating guy.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of interest, actually well educated and just generally an interesting guy.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't just go hang out at the White House.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, or any politician's house or anybody, let alone they're gonna feed you.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, definitely not.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You'll you'll walk away in handcuffs at the very least.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is so fascinating.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it just talks you just think about the different era and time and just people and the way we interacted.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just there's so much different to it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it was civil.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was very civil.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: You wrote letters, long letters to people, and you know, you had long letters thanking them for being you know so gracious when you were there.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was slower but more in-depth.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And now we seem to be faster and superficial.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not gonna send you a birthday card, just a happy birthday text is good enough, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Different times, but yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to go back and visit it because when you see the point of origin, you get a sense of what should be versus what is.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think individually, if we start thinking about that kind of stuff, we have an impact because it'll affect what we do.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So this 250th, I mean I we knew that uh there were going to be a lot of celebrations.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so we wanted to make sure we we got the book out in time, but we've also sent the book out to a bunch of people, including the current president and uh a lot of radio personalities and things like that, because the all these people are talking all the time about patriotism in America.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, here you go.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, have a good read.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't ask for anything, not didn't ask for publicity, just here you go.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a fun thing to do.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you said that you've had a lot of Positive feedback and from people who have read it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to know, just from your personal standpoint, what's been the most rewarding part of putting this book out there and what are some things, maybe even unexpected, feedback that you've gotten that you really have enjoyed hearing from people?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's been quite a wide range of it, but I think the one that both JC and I uh really enjoyed, we got what we got, I think, two or three actually, it brought tears to my eyes.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, for that to happen, it has to hit an emotional impact, and that's good.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: That means we did something right.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And beyond just, oh, it was a great book, it's a great story, but that kind of thing with an emotional resonance.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a that was extremely positive.
• 22:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it was actually, it was joyful to write.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we found ourselves sitting there enjoying it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we would have probably two, three times a week, we would have a Zoom call like this and uh and discuss it and and talk about our different perspectives.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, meantime, we had ARC readers going through it and sending us, oh, you made a mistake here, and things like that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: But um it was it was a very enjoyable experience.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as it progressed, it also became an emotional experience, which I think then comes out in the book itself.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so I was sorry to see it end.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, I can imagine I can imagine so, because again, you're I it's probably a lot easier to to write a history book.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can go find the facts, you put it together, you know, you put it out there, but to to do the kind of same amount of research, but put a twist on it and get creative and and put some imagination to it.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I can imagine that's just such a different, more refreshing, exciting sort of process to where you kind of get lost in the story and you want to you want to create something, and and I can imagine it's like a great movie when it's over, you're like, dang, that was awesome.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and that's probably why people are wanting a a sequel, you know.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Keep this keep this story.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's the same thing.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like with great movies, it's like they always ruin well, not always.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I take that back.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: But most of the time we'll ruin it with a sequel.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, just leave it on.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember who said it many years ago.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: They said end it with them wanting more is perhaps the best thing you can do.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I tend to agree.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: You always want, you always want to to want more, and I think that's a great way to to And I think also you well, I'll give you an ex I'll give you a good example.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So Star Wars is a good example.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Star Wars in 1977 in the theater.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Blew me away, right?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And now, of course, you've got I can't keep up with it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Nine films, 506 TV series, there's 150 books.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I can't look back, go and go, gee, well, episode 45 was really fantastic, you know?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I remember episode one.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was good.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Two and three were okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: They were good too, but I've had so less is more.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've had the same thoughts.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: I saw the new movie and I was like, I don't even know what number this is.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not interested.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, and that's what it numbs you out and it loses that that appeal.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is why books like uh Dune, which were so hard to make into movies and were so popular because it was very immersive and very difficult to translate into a different uh different format.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, they'd now done that with multiples as well.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's the world.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe just leave yours as it is and let it have its moment for many, many, many years to come.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the plan right now.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually working on another series, so which is uh uh more not historical, it's just more entertaining.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So but yeah, I don't I don't know what we would do if we had to do a sequel.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll uh when you have your new work come out too.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: We'll have to have have you both on.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be great.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: As uh I'm sure it's just as exciting.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But William, one more question for you.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: This has been fantastic, by the way.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean when I saw saw your book, I was like, this is what I've been needing.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I need one of these books this year to get excited about.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I am excited, and I think a lot of people will enjoy this, especially because this episode is going to be coming out right around 4th of July.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so I think timing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: But William, one more question.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I ask everyone who comes on the Books for Guys podcast this question, just from a book recommendation standpoint.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always curious what people have enjoyed reading or what they like to recommend to others.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so my question to you is what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what's a book that you love to recommend to other people?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I I think in terms of I like a lot of different genres, but I go back to Dune by Frank Herbert as probably a really solid book that you really once you read it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to read because it's it's pretty long and complicated.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like books that have a little bit of a twist to 'em.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: There was a movie that came out a handful of years ago with uh Ian McKellen called uh what was it called?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Mr.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Holmes.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it was about Sherlock Holmes latter days.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's like age ninety something, and but it was based on a book called A Slight Turn of the Mind, which was really, really good.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the movie and the book are almost identical except for the very end.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I always I always tell people read that one too, because it's it's interesting, whether you like Sherlock Holmes or not, because even if you've never read the character before, it's about an old man who's with dementia that's slowly losing it, who used to be a really brilliant guy, and how he tries to compensate and spend the remainder of his days.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a good book and a good movie.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's a good one.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds fascinating.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's uh it's such an unfair question because you could answer that so many different ways based off what year it is, where you're at in your life.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's always books that mean.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is a good book?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, years ago in college, I read I read uh the Gulag Acapelago by Sol Sanitson, and that was that was a good book.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's a good no, it's actually is a good book, but it's a difficult read, and it's also massive.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting, William, because I've it's been pretty cool as like my reading journey, how each year I seem to challenge myself a little bit more in in picking up different books that maybe like that one where it's a little bit of a tougher read, which is also why I like fiction books so much now, because I need a break sometimes from those tougher reads.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the the ones that make me have to maybe I can only read a page or two at a time, and maybe I need to reread it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just something that challenges the way I think or or provides me with information I've definitely never known or been been interested in before.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So and I but it's been cool.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would have never wanted to accept that challenge, probably even five years ago.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the more, uh just the more I read, the more I kind of want to challenge myself to get something a little more difficult.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Let me throw one more in there.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know when we get done with this and and I chat with him, he goes, You didn't mention my book.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: JC Ryan has a uh well, he's got several series, but one of the series is the book is called The Tenth Cycle.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a bit of a sci-fi one, and the premise behind it is that we are not the first iteration of humanity, that there were various cycles before us, and through whatever circumstances they didn't survive.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole premise of the 10th cycle is that the people in the ninth cycle decided to try to leave a message.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh good book.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about ones that get you into it's entertaining and not too heavy.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a good one.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, that sounds good.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like uh Joe Rogan had a discussion about that recently too.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming back in a lot of discussion about origins and yeah, we we make certain assumptions about our place here.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I oh I love di deep diving in rabbit holes like like that conversation.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: But William, thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all the spotlight, your and JC's book.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've got it on the website.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we're gonna make sure people can see it and all the the show notes here too, for those interested in purchasing and reading it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh William, I I wish you guys nothing but success with this book, especially as we do get to the 250th birthday of America and just all the stuff that'll be uh, you know, celebrated around that, and your book will be a part of that coming out this year.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and I just think it's again, I think it's something that is needed.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people will find enjoyment, and it'll also create some curiosity and some I hope so, yes, some intellectual thinking about some things.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh I just think it's fantastic work, and I can't wait to see all the success you guys have with it.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, William.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.