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From Academia to Federal Government: Michal's Second Career Pivot · Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search

• 0:00
  Michal Balass 00:01
• 0:01
  Going through the first transition makes you hyper aware of what you want, what you
• 0:02
  don't want, what you're willing to tolerate, what your needs are. And so I wasn't digging
• 0:03
  through all of that the second time around.
• 0:04
  Scott Anthony Barlow 00:16
• 0:05
  Making one intentional career change can set your life on a completely different path.
• 0:06
  And it's not just because you get a new career or you switch industries, it's really all of
• 0:07
  the work that you put into making the career change that actually makes all the
• 0:08
  difference. Going through the effort to learn how to make a very intentional career
• 0:09
  change that lines up more with your strengths and what you want out of life and work,
• 0:10
  well, going through all that effort to be able to make that happen, it doesn't just change
• 0:11
  your job once, it changes how you look at it for your entire life, and you can't go back.
• 0:12
  This is a different episode. We call it, "Where are they now?" series. So on Monday, we
• 0:13
  shared Michal's story from when she first made a career change. And if you haven't
• 0:14
  already heard it, I would say, pause this episode, go back, have a listen. It's right before
• 0:15
  this one. As Michal and I talked about many things regarding her career change that
• 0:16
  she'd made at the time, she also shared how many things were different in her life.
• 0:17
  Meaning, she realized that not only did her priorities begin to shift, but she was also
• 0:18
  able to fine-tune her desires and her goals in ways that she just didn't anticipate. This
• 0:19
  was thanks to all the things that she learned during her initial career change. Pretty
• 0:20
  cool, right? Well, as we started the conversation, Michal goes back and reflects on her
• 0:21
  situation that made her make her first career change. Here she is.
• 0:22
  Michal Balass 01:48
• 0:23
  When we spoke last, I had left my academic job as a professor about maybe three or
• 0:24
  four months. So I was fresh out of academia. And I had a job in an academic setting,
• 0:25
  doing research in a different kind of way. So I wasn't a professor. And I was at that shop
• 0:26
  for about nine months. And I discovered along the way that it didn't quite, it was a very
• 0:27
  good transition job, it didn't really quite fit everything that I was looking for. And I started
• 0:28
  applying to federal jobs on a tip from somebody that said, "Well, based on what you're
• 0:29
  saying and what you're looking for, you might really like the federal government working
• 0:30
  environment." And on a whim, I applied to as many jobs that sounded like they would fit
• 0:31
  what I was looking for. And I forgot about it. Months passed, and that's sort of how the
• 0:32
  federal hiring process goes. And, you know, a few months later, I get a flurry of interview
• 0:33
  requests. And I had forgotten about applying because I thought, you know, I'm a
• 0:34
  cognitive psychologist, I'm a statistician, I'm doing this kind of work, why would the
• 0:35
  federal government want me? And it turns out that they wanted a lot of people like me,
• 0:36
  and that sort of set the stage to where I am now.
• 0:37
  Scott Anthony Barlow 03:13
• 0:38
  Let me ask you about that, though. I'm really curious about that comment that you made
• 0:39
  about, 'why would the federal government want you.' So what is behind that, first of all?
• 0:40
  Michal Balass 03:25
• 0:41
  Well, so my graduate training, which I'm so proud of, using cognitive psychology in
• 0:42
  psycho linguistics, so the psychology of language. I used to, and I still do, actually, do
• 0:43
  research in literacy, learning how to read, vocabulary learning. And when you think
• 0:44
  about that content area, you think that your choices are pretty limited. And right now, I'm
• 0:45
  working in the area of public health in which seven months ago I had zero experience,
• 0:46
  and when I would be applied to jobs for my first transition, my identity was so tightly
• 0:47
  around with the fact that I'm a cognitive psychologist, I was a professor, and people
• 0:48
  have to know this. And they don't. They have to know the kind of skills that you can
• 0:49
  bring to the table. And for me to learn how to spin my training to show, “Hey, because of
• 0:50
  my training, I can learn really fast and have the statistical skills that you need. And you
• 0:51
  don't have to worry about the fact that I'm not trained in public health, I will pick this up
• 0:52
  along the way.” And when I understood that, I can be very confident about that, it
• 0:53
  became really easy. I felt I was getting into these without even having to try.
• 0:54
  Scott Anthony Barlow 04:44
• 0:55
  I definitely want to come back and dig deeper into how to spend my training portion, and
• 0:56
  the giving interviews without even having to try, because I think that our listeners
• 0:57
  absolutely want to hear more. But before we do that, I think it's really important to give
• 0:58
  some context as to what were some of the biggest learnings that you had first time
• 0:59
  around, and specifically you went through and when we got that and meet you the first
• 1:00
  time, you had just recently had the realization that academia maybe wasn't where
• 1:01
  exactly you want it to be over the long term. And you were experimenting with a lot of
• 1:02
  different things you had, even started a side hustle with a photography business. And
• 1:03
  you were looking at a lot of different opportunities in a variety of different ways. And I
• 1:04
  remember that, there's a lot of ways that you could describe that first transition, however
• 1:05
  easy was probably not one of them. Is that fair to say?
• 1:06
  Michal Balass 05:44
• 1:07
  Yes.
• 1:08
  Scott Anthony Barlow 05:46
• 1:09
  Okay. So, along those lines, I'm curious, before we even get into this most recent
• 1:10
  transition, which it sounds like you've done an amazing job with, what do you feel like
• 1:11
  were some of your biggest learnings the first time around?
• 1:12
  Michal Balass 06:01
• 1:13
  I wish I could take credit for this, because I recently heard it. And I felt that it
• 1:14
  characterizes what my learnings were the first time around. And I was really focused on
• 1:15
  what I wanted to be instead of who I wanted to be. And I learned in that first transition,
• 1:16
  to focus on who I wanted to be, and what is going on in my life right now that sort of
• 1:17
  restricts or eliminate some of these other possibilities. And focusing on the 'who' instead
• 1:18
  of the 'what' made it really easy to find a path forward. And it's finding the path that
• 1:19
  makes it go more smoothly and a little bit more easily, if that makes sense.
• 1:20
  Scott Anthony Barlow 06:46
• 1:21
  Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And it also resonates with me on a lot of different
• 1:22
  levels, both me personally, but also even, you know, there's been some really good
• 1:23
  research done around this too, people who are more resilient are those people who are
• 1:24
  very focused on instead of bringing into you know, I'm a CEO, and that's part of my
• 1:25
  identity, or I am a "insert your title here", instead, more focused on the type of person
• 1:26
  that they are, and want to be. And that translates into resiliency as well, which was very,
• 1:27
  very interesting to me. So what you say resonates on that level, too. But I'm curious,
• 1:28
  what way did you see that play out for you? What did that mean in your world?
• 1:29
  Michal Balass 07:33
• 1:30
  It meant that I had to shed a little bit of the identity that I had before; it meant a lot to me.
• 1:31
  And I knew myself as a professor, as a cognitive psychologist. And I have to sort of
• 1:32
  think about myself as somebody who is really a researcher who's curious about the
• 1:33
  world, that really enjoys statistics, and wants to make an impact and meaningful impact
• 1:34
  in the day to day work that she's doing. And because of that, I think that helped me
• 1:35
  rebrand myself a little bit in a less restrictive way. So I'm still a researcher, and I'm still a
• 1:36
  cognitive psychologist. But being a researcher opens a lot of different opportunities in
• 1:37
  different content areas, than saying that I'm a cognitive psychologist. And I'm still the
• 1:38
  same person, it's just really thinking about yourself in a different way that opens up
• 1:39
  other opportunities.
• 1:40
  Scott Anthony Barlow 08:36
• 1:41
  That's interesting that you bring up the branding side as well. Because I think on the
• 1:42
  psychological level, it helps tremendously around identity, like you were mentioning, but
• 1:43
  also, it helps as you're thinking about it differently, it becomes easier. It seems like to
• 1:44
  translate it into the branding and even more tangible side to it. And you know, I actually
• 1:45
  too, I'm curious, because I have got kids, you're a parent. This idea has actually recently
• 1:46
  changed the way that I interact with my kids, my children, because everybody in the
• 1:47
  world is like, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" You know, in casual
• 1:48
  conversation, as they, you know, as we're standing there, and they meet the kids and
• 1:49
  everything else. And we have, especially recently worked really hard to not cause
• 1:50
  people to think about them, or not cause our children to think about themselves as any
• 1:51
  one particular thing like my son plays hockey, and instead of identifying as a hockey
• 1:52
  player, having him identify more is the type of person who's going to give his all into
• 1:53
  sports, or whatever it is that he does, and be all in and that type of thing. But I'm curious
• 1:54
  what your experience has been in that regard, too.
• 1:55
  Michal Balass 09:56
• 1:56
  It's been really hard. And I'm laughing, because for people like me who've had similar
• 1:57
  experiences, you're going to school and you're investing so much time in the 'what',
• 1:58
  you're going to be this thing. And then you go and do this thing, right, you have arrived,
• 1:59
  and you get there. And you look around. And you said, "Well, I don't know that I want to
• 2:00
  be this 'what' face." And I sort of, and trying to shift to the 'who' and the type of person
• 2:01
  and thinking about this is my personality. And I'm a sensitive person, and I care about
• 2:02
  people. And I need to be in an environment where people are like-minded, and what
• 2:03
  can I do that embraces those things that are part of me. And it's really, really hard. I
• 2:04
  think about it, like, "Oh, it was really, really easy. I just sort of thought about myself in a
• 2:05
  different way." But I think that's why, in the past three years, I think I started working with
• 2:06
  Lisa Lewis three years ago. I think that's why it has taken me that long to get to this
• 2:07
  point. And I can see myself changing over time. So I'm trying to think about once I get to
• 2:08
  a certain space, that I'll still be evolving. And in 5 years or 10 years, I might want to do
• 2:09
  something different. And that's okay. I'm trying to commit to the moment and the short
• 2:10
  term and do the best work that I can do that is aligned with who I am. And you know,
• 2:11
  and worry about the rest later.
• 2:12
  Scott Anthony Barlow 11:33
• 2:13
  One of the things that you mentioned to me before we really got into this conversation
• 2:14
  and hit the record button is that, compared to your first transition, this second transition
• 2:15
  was much easier. And I'm curious, one, what you meant by that? I promised you I was
• 2:16
  gonna ask about this later. Because I am really legitimately curious about what your
• 2:17
  experience was like, as it relates to that second transition. But that was a really
• 2:18
  interesting comment. So tell me what you meant by that and how you felt it was easier.
• 2:19
  Michal Balass 12:08
• 2:20
  I think going through the first transition makes you hyper aware of what you want, what
• 2:21
  you don't want, what you're willing to tolerate, what your needs are. And so I wasn't
• 2:22
  digging through all of that the second time around. I had spent a long time, the first
• 2:23
  transition trying to figure out, "Okay, well, how do I feel about this? Does this feel
• 2:24
  comfortable? Does this feel like something that I would want to do?" And the second
• 2:25
  time around, I already knew all of that stuff. And I've done a lot of research, and I just
• 2:26
  continued doing what I learned from you, and the podcast is to continue having
• 2:27
  conversations and to continue engaging in relationship building. And you never know
• 2:28
  who's going to give you this little nugget of information that is going to open up the
• 2:29
  whole world to you. And it was a casual conversation that I was having with a colleague
• 2:30
  whose husband works in the federal government. And she said, "He's kind of like you,
• 2:31
  and you might enjoy this. Why don't you just try to see what happens?" And that's how I
• 2:32
  got here. So one of the reasons why I think the second transition is a lot easier is
• 2:33
  because you do all the hard work the first time, and you're always made aware of this
• 2:34
  works for me, this doesn't. And when you feel that things are going awry, or you have a
• 2:35
  sense of I want something more, it's a little bit easier to get on that, you know, job
• 2:36
  search, train, and start doing work.
• 2:37
  Scott Anthony Barlow 13:41
• 2:38
  So I'm really interested in that, though, because I would say that one of the things I've
• 2:39
  observed is, even before we got the opportunity to work with you, you were a pretty
• 2:40
  self-aware person. Compared to the average person out there, you were pretty
• 2:41
  self-aware already.
• 2:42
  Michal Balass 14:00
• 2:43
  For better or worse.
• 2:44
  Scott Anthony Barlow 14:01
• 2:45
  For better or for worse. But I think that that's been something that I have been really
• 2:46
  fascinated about. Because, you know, we get, through the podcast, and through our
• 2:47
  company, I've had the opportunity to meet so many people that are already very
• 2:48
  self-aware, especially compared to the average person. And at the same time, you
• 2:49
  know, as they go through the type of process that you're describing, and getting to know
• 2:50
  themselves on a different level, and what they want and need as it relates to their work
• 2:51
  and their life, something is different, and something is like we... It's at a deeper level. So
• 2:52
  I'm curious just for you, what you feel like that something was? Because it sounds like
• 2:53
  knowing and doing the hard work for that the first time, even though you were already
• 2:54
  pretty self-aware, was, in some ways, a bit of a game changer for you and just paved
• 2:55
  the way for future times around.
• 2:56
  Michal Balass 15:01
• 2:57
  I think going through the process and being self-aware gives you this sense of the Sixth
• 2:58
  Sense. And if I can go back and think about at what point in my first transition job I
• 2:59
  started feeling that I needed something different, and I can't really pinpoint exactly, I was
• 3:00
  at that job for about four or five months. And I was pretty pleased. And I felt really good
• 3:01
  about the work that I was doing. And I sort of had the sense that I would reach the full
• 3:02
  capacity at that job pretty quickly. And it wasn't some, like, I was thinking about it
• 3:03
  consciously. It's sort of something that happened because I went through the process.
• 3:04
  And I knew, "Okay, well, I'm going to start planning now. So I don't get to that point
• 3:05
  where I feel that I'm stuck." And having gone through the process the first time, you can
• 3:06
  sort of gauge, it's just that experience gives you this sense of "Okay, well, maybe I need
• 3:07
  to start thinking about what the next step is."
• 3:08
  Scott Anthony Barlow 16:07
• 3:09
  So then, what did you feel like were some of those actual tangible pieces as you were
• 3:10
  working in the, you know, the role that you transitioned to when we talked the last time
• 3:11
  around on the podcast, what were some of those recognition signs for you where it
• 3:12
  started to pop up and you thought, "Hmm.. Maybe I should pay attention to this, and I
• 3:13
  should begin this transition again quicker."
• 3:14
  Michal Balass 16:30
• 3:15
  Sure. So when I first started my job, the onboarding was a steep learning curve, but
• 3:16
  three months into it, four months into it, I was getting my work done. And I was getting it
• 3:17
  done very quickly. And there wasn't more for me to do. And I would create my own
• 3:18
  projects to preoccupy my time. And I acquired a lot of skills in that way. And it was very
• 3:19
  obvious that there was nowhere for me to move up. And I was a little sad about that,
• 3:20
  because I really like the academic environment. I like being on campus. But I also
• 3:21
  realized that if I'm going to get bored, I'm going to feel disconnected. And it's not going
• 3:22
  to be good for me, it's not going to be good for my employer, and I didn't want to get to
• 3:23
  that point. That was one. The other thing that happened that sort of gave me a sense
• 3:24
  that I need to be thinking about the transition is that there was also an administrative
• 3:25
  change. And in that administrative change, changed some of the culture in the office,
• 3:26
  and it wasn't something that I felt very aligned with. And for me, given what had
• 3:27
  happened to me in my first job when I was a professor, it was really important to me not
• 3:28
  to get to that point where I'm really unhappy, because when I get to that point, and it's
• 3:29
  really hard for me to see the forest through the trees. And in a way, this helped me,
• 3:30
  working on this earlier, it helped me keep logical and to be very practical. And to be
• 3:31
  honest, having not had this experience before, I don't think I would have been able to do
• 3:32
  and get to the point where I am now. I think sometimes people who are self-aware and
• 3:33
  are very productive when things go bad, or if things don't feel quite right, they just work
• 3:34
  harder at it. And they have to unlearn that because you can put so much time and effort
• 3:35
  into a bad situation, and it's not going to make it change, right? There's just so many
• 3:36
  things that you can control, and learning how to sort of step back and think about,
• 3:37
  "Okay, well, how do I make this better in the short term, and how do I move forward?"
• 3:38
  That's something that I wouldn't have been able to do had I not had the first experience.
• 3:39
  Scott Anthony Barlow 19:04
• 3:40
  That's interesting. And you mentioned, putting tons of time and effort is the default for,
• 3:41
  you know, especially people that have a tendency to be high performers, especially
• 3:42
  going along with that, that self-awareness and some of the other pieces too. I would say
• 3:43
  that I've also witnessed that people can put tons and tons of time and effort and energy,
• 3:44
  and go back into that default to just work harder or try harder, or try to make it work in
• 3:45
  one way or another. Even if it's a good situation, but not an ideal situation. As well. I'm
• 3:46
  one. It's really interesting to hear that you were able to trigger completely differently.
• 3:47
  And, you know, it also brings up a different question. A little bit behind the scenes before
• 3:48
  we hit the record button here. One of the things you asked, as since we were talking
• 3:49
  about, oh, we're doing this series, where we're bringing on people that have been on the
• 3:50
  podcast before that we've had the opportunity to help, you know, called “Where Are
• 3:51
  They Now?” And you said, how many of those people had transitioned into other jobs or
• 3:52
  other roles or other opportunities, since the point in time where we helped them, and
• 3:53
  when we're talking to them now. And I told you about, you know, 60-ish percent is what I
• 3:54
  would guess. And I'm curious, one, why you asked, and were you surprised? You said
• 3:55
  you weren't surprised by that. But why weren't you surprised by it?
• 3:56
  Michal Balass 20:32
• 3:57
  I'm not surprised by it, because I think my experience is similar to other people's
• 3:58
  experience where you've been doing something for a really long time, and your first
• 3:59
  transition comes up, and you do this interview, and you do so well, and you get the job,
• 4:00
  and at that point, you don't, at least for me, I didn't feel that I fully knew myself to know
• 4:01
  that this transition job, and I hate calling that transition job, and this job that I had
• 4:02
  transitioned to is exactly the right fit. And the process that you go through sticks with
• 4:03
  you. It's not like you change jobs, and it ends, right?
• 4:04
  Scott Anthony Barlow 21:15
• 4:05
  It is not a one and done.
• 4:06
  Michal Balass 21:16
• 4:07
  Yes, self discovery does not end after that. And, you know, your personal life also
• 4:08
  changes. My son now is three, and he has different needs. And I want to be around
• 4:09
  more. And it changes how you think about your job. So it's not surprising to me that the
• 4:10
  first job after that transition may be a good fit, but it might not be the ideal fit. And, you
• 4:11
  know, another transition might be required. It was true for me, and I would assume that
• 4:12
  it would probably be true for others as well.
• 4:13
  Scott Anthony Barlow 21:52
• 4:14
  But I think what I'm hearing from you and what I've been putting together and what's
• 4:15
  been really fun for me as I've been having these conversations is that I've heard similar
• 4:16
  things again, and again, to what I... what you said earlier, actually, and that it paves the
• 4:17
  way for something that is even more ideal, or even better, or something that you couldn't
• 4:18
  quite imagine at that particular time until you had that continuous iteration that you're
• 4:19
  talking about. I can't remember what word you used. I think you used evolution, maybe.
• 4:20
  Michal Balass 22:20
• 4:21
  Yes. And I think the things that I was thinking about when I wanted to make my first
• 4:22
  transition were completely different than the things that I was thinking about for my
• 4:23
  second transition. So for my first transition, I was really focused about, as I said,
• 4:24
  rebranding myself, taking the essence of what I can do, and showing somebody else
• 4:25
  that I can be of value for what they're doing. And that was my focus. The second time
• 4:26
  around, I was focused about meaningful work again, but also thinking about how does
• 4:27
  this job fits into my lifestyle? And how will it fit for the things that I'm thinking about doing
• 4:28
  in the future? And the thought processes were completely different.
• 4:29
  Scott Anthony Barlow 23:07
• 4:30
  That's pretty cool. And I don't want to gloss over how this second transition was made.
• 4:31
  Because at the beginning of this, you said, "I really focused on how to spend my training
• 4:32
  and my learning into this next role here." So I'm really curious, what did you mean by
• 4:33
  that? And how did you do that?
• 4:34
  Michal Balass 23:29
• 4:35
  So the market for research psychologists is much bigger than the market for cognitive
• 4:36
  psychologists. Even though a cognitive psychologist is a research psychologist, and the
• 4:37
  training is very similar. We are all trained in how to do good research and statistics and
• 4:38
  making sure that the science is good. So thinking about in making that second
• 4:39
  transition, thinking a little bit more broadly, because I wanted to do impactful work. And
• 4:40
  impactful work comes in all different kinds of content areas. And when I was
• 4:41
  interviewing, I wanted to tell the interviewer, "Yeah, you're looking at my resume. And
• 4:42
  you're wondering, why would somebody with my background would want to be in the
• 4:43
  area of public health?" Well, it's a very compelling mission. And even though I wasn't
• 4:44
  trained in this content area, I was trained in other ways. And this is what I can bring to
• 4:45
  the table. This is the value that I can add, and thinking about my training in a broader
• 4:46
  way, and it wasn't that I was saying things that I wasn't able to do, those are things that I
• 4:47
  could do, just in a different kind of context. And that worked, and being very genuine
• 4:48
  and saying, “I was doing this work before. And I feel I have a higher calling, I feel that I
• 4:49
  want to be more connected with the work that I'm doing and how it affects other people.”
• 4:50
  And being genuine about that was very appealing. And where I work now, nobody bats
• 4:51
  an eye about my previous experience, they actually think that it's something that is
• 4:52
  valuable that I bring to the work.
• 4:53
  Scott Anthony Barlow 25:17
• 4:54
  How did you, when we get into the nitty gritty, because one of the things I heard you
• 4:55
  mentioned earlier is, you know, at one point thought, "Nobody's going to... Nobody's
• 4:56
  gonna think that my previous experience is valuable at the federal government," and
• 4:57
  then somewhere along the way, you had a change of heart. And then you started
• 4:58
  looking at this on a broader perspective. And as you mentioned, rebranding yourself.
• 4:59
  And then you leveraged that to be able to submit a flurry of applications, I think you call
• 5:00
  it. So what took place? What do you feel like were some of the things that really helped
• 5:01
  or that you did during that, that caused people to pay attention? Because I heard you
• 5:02
  say, you know, "I didn't just get one interview, but there were multiple organizations
• 5:03
  reaching back out."
• 5:04
  Michal Balass 26:08
• 5:05
  Yes. So I reached out to anybody that I knew that had a federal position, and asked
• 5:06
  them about the process. And I learned that the federal hiring process doesn't have a
• 5:07
  backdoor option. So you submit your resume, and there's an actual human that reviews
• 5:08
  every resume that is submitted for a particular job. And you have to make sure that in
• 5:09
  your resume, somebody who doesn't have experience in your field or doesn't have
• 5:10
  experience for the job that is advertised can understand what your skills are. And when
• 5:11
  that has that piece of, as I said, that little nugget of information that opens the whole
• 5:12
  world to you, I could think about, "Okay, well, how do I articulate my skills that
• 5:13
  somebody who has no background in statistics can understand that I can do this job?"
• 5:14
  And that was sort of the formula that I used for every resume that I submitted. And I got
• 5:15
  through the first pass, and I know that in the training that you do in the bootcamp for
• 5:16
  people, you advocate to get through the back door, if possible, talk to people, see if you
• 5:17
  can get your resume on their desk. And I think that is a very fantastic method and
• 5:18
  advocate for that 99% of the time. But with the federal hiring process, you can't do that.
• 5:19
  They have very rigorous standards on how resumes are reviewed. So in this case, and
• 5:20
  the interviews that I got, I got through the front door, somebody looked at my resume,
• 5:21
  and it was articulated well enough that they took a chance on me.
• 5:22
  Scott Anthony Barlow 27:53
• 5:23
  I heard you say, and I want to push you just a little bit here on two areas. The first of
• 5:24
  which I heard you say that, you know, "I was able to articulate some of my previous
• 5:25
  experiences in a way that fit what they were looking for." Part of those are my words, not
• 5:26
  yours. What helped you the most with that?
• 5:27
  Michal Balass 28:15
• 5:28
  I hate to sound like I'm repeating myself, but just thinking about my skills in a broader
• 5:29
  way, and in a genuine way that could help with the mission of the agency that I was
• 5:30
  applying for. I think that's really, really important. I think sometimes we get stuck in
• 5:31
  thinking, "Well, I'm doing work in this area. And I really want to shift into doing
• 5:32
  something else. But I don't have the content to be able to do that." And I don't think
• 5:33
  that's true. Underneath it all, I think employers want people with skills that are applicable
• 5:34
  and transferable, and that they want people who are really anxious to learn as fast as
• 5:35
  possible to do the best job as possible. And articulating that on my resume, articulating
• 5:36
  that on my cover letter, the same to work, I think, and going there in person and
• 5:37
  interviewing and being very genuine and not hiding the experience that I've had before.
• 5:38
  But articulating in a kind of way to say, you know, "I did this body of work before. This is
• 5:39
  what I learned from it. I think this could really help you here.” Was a very successful
• 5:40
  strategy."
• 5:41
  Scott Anthony Barlow 29:33
• 5:42
  When you got down to the nitty gritty of how you did that, was that, you went and locked
• 5:43
  yourself in a, I don't know, a coffee shop, maybe locked yourself in isn't the right word.
• 5:44
  But you went to a coffee shop and you brainstormed for four hours, what did you find
• 5:45
  worked for you to come up with that and think about that and translate that from
• 5:46
  thoughts in your brain down to something that was on digital paper or actual paper, in
• 5:47
  one way or another?
• 5:48
  Michal Balass 30:01
• 5:49
  Sure. So what I did, and this is a, I don't know that this is the most efficient method, is
• 5:50
  that I made a list of all my important accomplishments, all my skills, the things that I did.
• 5:51
  And then I looked at the job application and looked at the language that was articulated
• 5:52
  in the job application, and rebranded what I did in that kind of way. So it was just
• 5:53
  basically understanding where the employers are coming from and what they're looking
• 5:54
  for, and the language that they speak, and showing them that I could speak that
• 5:55
  language, that I can take my experience, and apply to what they're doing. And it wasn't
• 5:56
  easy. It sounds like it's easy, but it's not. It requires really thinking about my experiences
• 5:57
  and what was most important, and articulating what the employer would be looking for.
• 5:58
  Scott Anthony Barlow 31:00
• 5:59
  Very cool, I appreciate you detailing that out. That is super helpful, because part of what
• 6:00
  I'm hearing is that it is not, one, it's not gonna be easy, necessarily. This requires real
• 6:01
  thought and decision making. And you're putting the time and effort into that. But then
• 6:02
  the other thing I am hearing from you is that, you know, as you sat down with that
• 6:03
  brainstormed list of all of your accomplishments and results, and everything that came
• 6:04
  along with it, then a big part of that about that was knowing and understanding and
• 6:05
  doing some of the research on the organization, and then taking also the the job post
• 6:06
  and then the language that is used in there and translating it into that. Is that a fair
• 6:07
  summary of what you did?
• 6:08
  Michal Balass 31:46
• 6:09
  Yes. And if I can offer the listeners a little bit of a tip.
• 6:10
  Scott Anthony Barlow 31:51
• 6:11
  Please.
• 6:12
  Michal Balass 31:52
• 6:13
  If you do this kind of work, your resume will stand out. Because 90% of the people they
• 6:14
  just submit their resume, they don't alter it to fit the job requirements or the description
• 6:15
  or the mission of the organization. And if you spend the time writing a well articulated
• 6:16
  cover letter that shows that you're very interested in the job and why you're interested in
• 6:17
  it, and let your resume reflect that, it's very easy to get to the top of the stack.
• 6:18
  Scott Anthony Barlow 32:23
• 6:19
  We're in the process of hiring for a marketer and growth hacker for our organization.
• 6:20
  And that is literally what the job of that person is to do, or at least a portion of the job, I
• 6:21
  should say, is know and understand the people that we work with and translate a lot of
• 6:22
  what we do into the language of the people that we work with. And that serves as our
• 6:23
  marketing and our content. So I fully expect people to be able to do that in our process.
• 6:24
  And it blows me away that even for a, you know, somebody who that is literally their job,
• 6:25
  we still get tons of tons of things that do not meet that criteria at all, and are not what
• 6:26
  you just described. So yes, you will go to the top of the stack in a variety of different
• 6:27
  ways. And even though it's difficult, it's far easier to make that happen than what you
• 6:28
  imagined. And I do want to say that I have just as a note, although it's not easy
• 6:29
  necessarily to go in the backdoor, there's a variety of different ways that I have been
• 6:30
  successful in helping other people go through the backdoor in federal government, and
• 6:31
  still live within the systems that are in place. For example, one very, very easy way, I
• 6:32
  shouldn't say easy, one very, very simple way that that has happened is being able to
• 6:33
  get in touch and befriend some of the recruiters so they have one other additional extra
• 6:34
  incentive to pull your resume out of the stack, in addition to the amazing language that
• 6:35
  is used inside to resume an application. So that's just one out of many. But I will say to
• 6:36
  your point that there are a lot of systems in place. And it's easier to work within those
• 6:37
  systems, even when you're going through or attempting to go through the back door, if
• 6:38
  you will. So...
• 6:39
  Michal Balass 34:15
• 6:40
  That is true. And if I can add another little tip. I didn't know this while I was applying.
• 6:41
  Now that I've been in the system, I do know this to be true. So on federal job
• 6:42
  applications, at the bottom of the job description, there will be an email there. And that
• 6:43
  email actually goes to a person, a live person who will answer your questions. And so if
• 6:44
  you have questions about the job application, you should email them. And even if you
• 6:45
  don't have questions about the job application, you should email them to show that
• 6:46
  you're interested. And if they can't answer your question, they will tell you that they
• 6:47
  can't. But it's that little boost that gives you a bit of visibility that you wouldn't have
• 6:48
  otherwise.
• 6:49
  Scott Anthony Barlow 35:02
• 6:50
  Absolutely. I appreciate that tip. And speaking of giving advice and tips, here's what I'm
• 6:51
  really curious about: you've gone through now, multiple transitions. And if you think way
• 6:52
  back to that first time around, for just a moment, because we've got many listeners that
• 6:53
  are in that position, you were even the listener in that position, the first time you and I
• 6:54
  got to chat, oh, my goodness, a year and a half, two years ago, right? You know, a year
• 6:55
  and a half, two years ago, it was a totally different situation. And you were discovering
• 6:56
  that, "Hey. This isn't where I want to be for the long term. And this isn't a great fit." So
• 6:57
  now that you're back in that mindset, what advice would you give to people that are
• 6:58
  there, that want to discover what it is that they can be doing and should be doing, and
• 6:59
  make that type of transition that you did?
• 7:00
  Michal Balass 35:55
• 7:01
  I think the first thing that I would say, it's okay that you don't like what you thought your
• 7:02
  dream job is going to be. And it's going to take a while to feel that it's okay, that it's not,
• 7:03
  it's never a loss, all experiences are valuable experiences. And for me and thinking
• 7:04
  about that we were going to talk today, and I knew that you were going to ask me this
• 7:05
  question. For me, what feels like took so long and looking back, it's not really that long,
• 7:06
  is getting to the point of saying to myself, admitting it, that it's okay that I don't like do
• 7:07
  what I'm doing right now. And because I worked so hard for it, and I got to this point,
• 7:08
  and you feel that, well, “I've invested all this time. I don't want to let this go.” And it's
• 7:09
  okay to let it go. And it's just a part of the evolution of yourself. You're going to discover
• 7:10
  that there's a lot of different things that you might like to do. And, you know, tap into
• 7:11
  those things and do little experiments and try things out and see whether you like it or
• 7:12
  not. But at the end of the day, don't ever feel bad about yourself for wanting to change,
• 7:13
  because that is what's going to hold you back. Getting that interview or submitting
• 7:14
  resumes, or working on relationship building is hard. But the hardest work, I think, is
• 7:15
  coming to terms with and being okay with wanting to make a change.
• 7:16
  Scott Anthony Barlow 37:33
• 7:17
  Hey, if you're ready to be clear on what you want and find what fits you, I would say just
• 7:18
  email me — pause this right now — scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put
• 7:19
  “Conversation” in the subject line. I'll connect you with somebody on my team, the right
• 7:20
  person on my team, who can help you discover your ideal career profile. Again, it's
• 7:21
  scott@happentoyourcareer.com.