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Melissa Conner - Future of PR and Building Meaningful Brands · She’s Smart

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to She's Smart. I'm your host, Maria Robotham.
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Today's guest is someone whose work you've probably seen, even if you didn't realize it.
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I'm talking about Melissa Conner, Partner and Managing Director at Jennifer
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Bette Communications, the go-to PR agency for fast-growing, purpose-driven consumer brands.
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Melissa is not only a powerhouse in the world of communications,
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having worked with brands like Magic Spoon,
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Fashionphile, parachute dermalogica and
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midi health to name a few she's also a local mom
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a community builder and someone who deeply understands the
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art of storytelling and connection she started her
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journey with a gut instinct and a good pair of boots and today she helps lead
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a team of 50 driving change in an industry that's evolving faster than ever
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in this conversation we talk entrepreneurship why she believes pr professionals
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are the editors before the editors and how she's helping shape conversations around tariffs,
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small businesses, and women's health.
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We also talk about building community and what makes a brand truly press-worthy.
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Melissa is smart, insightful, and just really fun to hang out with.
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So get cozy as we connect, learn, and laugh together on She's Smart.
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Music.
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We'll be right back.
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So many questions about all of this thank you for coming to
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she smart oh my god thanks i was so excited that shoday put us together i love
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her you're from connecticut yeah born and raised which part i'm born and raised
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in danbury i went off to college i went to fordham thought i was gonna live
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in the city forever in brooklyn and raise my family and then the pandemic happened
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My parents live in New Milford,
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and we're so grateful and lucky that they have space and land.
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So we went with our, at that time, 16-month-old daughter.
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I was pregnant with my second daughter, who was due June 2020.
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Oh, my God, I'm going to have this baby in Connecticut. Back in the hospital
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where I was born, my childhood gynecologist.
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And she's since delivered my third child.
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And where I used to be a candy striper, I'm like, this is so wild.
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But then I was like, OK, where are we going to live once this baby comes?
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We can't leave my parents forever.
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I wasn't going back to our two bedroom in Brooklyn as much as I loved it,
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but it was deep pandemic time.
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I don't want to be there with a newborn and a toddler.
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So I just woke up one day. I was like, guess what, Sean, my husband.
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I was like, we need to buy a house.
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And his head like spun off his body because, you know, I don't think he wasn't
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right. Like we just apartment living.
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We were living in an apartment and we were planning on living in Brooklyn forever
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and buying in Brooklyn and staying there. I think he was just so he's also a
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business owner. So he's focused on his business, too.
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So for me to wake up one day and just say we need to buy a house,
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it just kind of threw him.
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But I knew that was the right thing. Like my gut, my instinct is usually right.
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My mom and I just started looking for houses and I would drag him with us and
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be like, OK, we found some great houses. We had a great realtor and we found
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our house. We are so lucky.
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It's not a normal first home. We got lucky based on the market.
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No one was leaving the city yet. People were still hunkering down.
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So we moved out before the wave. So if we waited any longer,
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it would have gotten insane.
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Yeah. And super competitive. So we got really, really lucky.
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We like live in our dream home and it's amazing and we're so lucky.
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We ended up having a third child because we moved here. We were in New York
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for almost 10 years. I was pregnant with our second. I have two boys.
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I'm from California, so I wanted space. I didn't want to live in the city forever.
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My husband would have stayed there.
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He still commutes. I was like, I need to be away. I need to be out here.
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We found Weston on a whim.
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It was not on our radar. We drive to Rhode Island every summer,
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spend our summers up there. We always would drive through. We knew Westport. We knew Ridgefield.
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Weston just kind of was, our realtor was like, hey, you guys want to check this out?
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And then I looked at the schools and I'm like, wow, these schools are ranked
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higher than my high school in California, which is an incredible school.
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Like, all right, this could work. And now it's been like 11 years.
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Amazing. So your youngest goes to the co-op?
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So my younger two go to the co-op. Grace is in the fours. She's moving up here.
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The co-op is this. I remember...
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We looked at all the preschools, but when I drove into the co-op,
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it's the same as when I picked my college. I drove in and I was like,
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this is it. This is how it feels.
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This is like preschool. I want them outside as much as possible.
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And I love the philosophy.
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I love that it's a community. I'm very community oriented. So I love when it's part of the mission.
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We fell in love with it and made the best friends there.
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We're like, we all came here at the same time. We all met each other.
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We're so lucky. Our husbands are all friends.
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And we were able to build a community of people in our foundation of living
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out in the suburbs. What's your life going to be like?
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You have to make new friends now in your mid-30s. You're like,
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oh, but the co-op honestly made it really easy.
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It does. I loved it there. I loved it so much the first year when we were in
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the city, I had applied to preschools for Easton.
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I thought we would still be. I'm like, hopefully he'll get into one.
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We lived in Tribeca. He got into zero. Oh, no.
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When we came here, I was driving around pregnant.
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Easton was back in the city with a babysitter, just trying to find a place for him.
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And I drove up, looked at the co-op online, and I drove up and met Pat,
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the old director. I loved her.
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And I'm like, oh, this is the place. I loved it so much, I ran the fundraiser
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the first year. Gala. Yeah.
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And it was at our house. A James Bond theme.
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I did it for three years because I loved it so much. I did it for my first two years.
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I took a break last year and this year, and I'm going to do it next year,
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my last year. Oh, that's awesome. I'm going to go out with a bang.
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I love it. I think it's so important when you're moving from a different place
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to get involved, even if it's like minor things.
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So I'm president of our PTO. I'm at the middle school right now.
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And I always tell the parents who are like, I want to do something.
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You can have a full-time job.
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There is going to be something that you can be a part of. For sure.
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To be involved. You could volunteer once. We get you in the library.
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There's always something. And I think for moms moving out here, not knowing anyone.
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My whole family's in California. My husband's family is in Florida.
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I knew all my friends were still in the city it was like you had to figure it
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out and joining certain things it really helped that like absolutely you definitely
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have to put in the effort you do for sure and it takes some time yeah then you
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find your people and you're like
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you never want to leave it's so true it really is embedded in the community
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yeah we mentioned so I walked in it's like the Westin way it really is for people
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who like to be part of a vibrant active community you also could move here and
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just retire and be quiet and that's fine but But it really is in the spirit
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of the town to do things together, which I like.
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And we're so good at it. Yeah. We're so good at it. So you went to Fordham.
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And then did you decide then that you wanted to go into marketing.
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PR, or was there kind of like a pathway that you got? Yeah. When I was in high
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school, I was like, oh, I want to work in fashion.
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And I didn't know what that meant at all. I was like, I want to work in fashion
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and I want to go into the city of...
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But I had no idea what that meant. I ended up getting into Fordham,
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which I loved. I went to the campus. The minute my dad drove through the gates,
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I was like, yes, this is it.
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Well, my 17-year-old self, I was like, this kind of looks like a Harry Potter campus.
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I was really into it. I also love that it was in the Bronx. It was near the
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zoo and the Botanical Gardens.
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Also, we had the Lincoln Center campus in the city. So I'm like,
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this is a good bridge for me. I'm from the suburbs. I don't know if I could
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be thrown right into the city living.
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That campus at Rose Hill was the perfect middle ground because I had a full
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campus. dorms and traditional college life, but I could hop on the Ram Van to
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Lincoln Center, which was awesome.
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Closer to my junior year, saying, okay, I want to intern somewhere and start
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figuring out what I want to do.
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I was doing business administration and marketing. So I was like,
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I think I need a general degree in business and marketing before I decide exactly
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what I'm going to do. I started applying for internships.
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One was at Brides Magazine or Modern Bride. It doesn't exist anymore.
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I got that internship, but I also was accepted to an internship at a PR firm,
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a small, a very small boutique firm.
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And honestly, the real truth is the PR firm was paying and the magazine wasn't.
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So I was like, you know what? I'm going to start with the PR firm.
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They're paying. I'm a junior.
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It'd be nice to have money. And if I don't like it, I'll do my semester with
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them. And then I'll switch to the publishing side and see what I'm into.
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I got to that PR firm and literally had the time of my life.
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The people who were my bosses then are my best friends now.
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Because it was such a small boutique firm I was able to do so
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much as an intern I basically was working almost like a coordinator I
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was learning how to write press releases how to pitch
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stories how do you build a list and get your pitch to the right editors I was
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also having a good time because I was working with like a fry company so I got
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to play with boots all day and send them out and I remember thinking in my little
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junior self when I was you know we'd get a request from a magazine and said,
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we're doing this shoot in this location.
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Here's the vibe. And then I would go into the sample closet and start picking
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the right pairs of boots for the request.
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I feel like PR people are the editors before the editors because they're only
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choosing from what we send to them if they're not making specific selects.
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When I would see a boot that I sent for a shoot and it would show up in the
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magazine, I was like, oh my goodness, I made that happen.
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I got the right thing in front of the right person to end up in the shoot.
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And I just started connecting these dots of this is storytelling.
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We're starting to craft narratives, even though I was very product focused at
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that time. I was so young and really just working with the product.
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As they started giving me more work, I started realizing that
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I'm pitching them a story. They are vetting and reading through.
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And if they're interested, they're going to write a version of this pitch as the story.
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Not everyone wants to agree with me, but we are editors for the editors,
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journalists for the journalists, because we are breaking a brand down and creating a story.
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Once it runs, you're reading your pitch and the skeleton of that story is your pitch.
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That firm was awesome because I had so much access to do things and do more
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than if I went to a big PR firm.
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I was like, this is what I want to do. I don't want to be on the other side. I want to be on this side.
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I ended up working for them part-time my second half of my junior year and then
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my whole senior year because I worked my schedule where I only had classes,
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I think, Monday and Wednesday.
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So then I worked for them Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. I was in the city working and I loved it.
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I still had the best college experience, had so much fun, partied just like
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everyone else, but I was working a job and making money and it was awesome.
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So what gave you the trajectory to stay on as becoming a founder of a PR firm
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versus going on to a big company and becoming their chief marketing officer
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or moving in that direction?
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Was that an option? Did you even think of that as a possibility?
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What I learned in my career, I was at the Bromley Group then right out of college.
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I was going to go to the Bromley Group as a coordinator, but then I convinced
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HL Group to hire me as a manager because I have technically two years of experience
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under my belt, even though I'm just now graduating.
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I convinced them to give me the manager job. HL Group is a phenomenal communications firm.
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They have different divisions with expertises. I was in the fashion division, learned so much there.
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A client from HL Group went to another agency and asked if I would go there.
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And that's where I met my business partner now.
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We met at Starworks Group, which no longer exists.
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We kind of fell in love with each other. She left after three months because
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she was the VP of our division and wanted to go in-house and have that experience.
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So she went to Alice and Olivia.
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And then I stayed at that agency for probably another year. And I went in-house to theory.
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I want to see the other side. I want to be the client. I want to see how brand operates.
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Like how does e-commerce work with sales, with product development,
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the designers and the supply chain?
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I felt like if I want to be a great publicist, I need to know what it feels
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like to be on the other side and to be the client when hiring agencies.
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So the biggest lesson I learned is as much as I loved watching the inner workings
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of a brand, I can't work at one brand.
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For me, it's not enough. I can't live and breathe one brand.
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Today, I live and breathe JBC.
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That's my brand. But our clients are across fashion, beauty,
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health and wellness, social impact, food and baths, you name it.
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I did go to one more brand in-house, a Canadian fashion brand that was launching
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in the U.S. that doesn't exist anymore called Joe fresh.
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Super fun. Learned a lot. I was able to build the comms team in the U.S.
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From there, I was like, there's no agency I want to go to.
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The culture of agencies is pretty negative, to be honest.
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Do I really want to go into an environment like that? Not really. But I also wasn't,
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There was no brand. I was like, I can live and breathe that brand long term.
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And so I didn't really know what to do. He's now my husband,
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but at the time it was my boyfriend.
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And he was like, we don't have a mortgage. We don't have kids.
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There's no risk. Why don't you freelance? I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit.
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When I was younger, I threw newspapers. I want to have my own money,
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even though my mom drove me to do it.
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Like I've always been entrepreneurial, wanting to do things myself.
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So he's like, just do it. This is your chance.
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You know, people go freelance. So I did. The minute you tell people you're available,
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it just comes your way. You've created the space. Really.
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And I remember I'm like, well, what kind of brands do I want to work with if
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I'm going to freelance? Now I get to choose.
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And I thought about everything I'd done before. Where was I the most passionate?
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What was I most excited about? And it went back to one of my very first clients
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at HL Group called Tom, which everyone knows now.
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But I was working with them when they were only like six months old. They had just launched.
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And no one knew what it was. People were like, what the heck is one for one?
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No one understood this radical transparency, this radical giving.
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I realized I had a founder who was super charismatic and had a great story. It was a great brand.
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The shoes were fun and cool and I had the give back. I'm like,
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that's when I was the most passionate because I had a lot to work with and I
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felt personally bought into the brand.
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I only want to work with brands that are bringing value to the world.
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It's fine if they want you to buy something, but is it better for you?
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Is it bringing something interesting, new and positive?
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They were very small, but it was fun. I was having the best time of my life.
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I was working from home. I think I was 25.
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I loved the flexibility of it. You have to be a self-motivator.
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That's why I was like, I need to choose brands that really make me excited.
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I was doing that for six months, and then I found out that Jen,
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my business partner now, had left her job in-house and was consulting with big
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brands who needed to innovate on their digital campaigns.
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They needed senior support, almost like a fractional CMO she was working at,
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what we would call it now.
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She ended up taking on a project that was a larger scope that she can do as one.
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And this other woman who we all worked with at Starworks, who is now our SVP
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of fashion, has worked with us forever.
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Melissa is freelancing and we had maybe lost touch for a few months.
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She goes, you should reach out and see if she'll help you with that.
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We started working together on one brand, then another brand wanted to sign us.
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It's two senior people with a lot of experience, and I'm getting more out of it than a whole agency.
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Word started spreading. We kept signing things. We had to a point where we could
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not sign anything else without help. Do we keep just doing this,
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the two of us, and have to say no to things?
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Or do we hire someone? We were like, let's just hire someone.
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Too many good things are coming to say no to. So we made our first hire. We made our first hire.
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At that point, I said, OK, we need to formalize our relationship.
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I became a partner. She had already LLC'd Jennifer Beck Communications.
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I'm like, fine. I have zero ego.
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Great. I can always blame you and say it's your name on the door if I need to.
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Sorry, Jennifer. She's heard this before. It was great. Everyone always asks,
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how does it work? I'm like, it just does. I can't explain it.
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We know each other so well. We know what each other's weaknesses and strengths
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are. we have deep trust, deep respect, which are key to having a long-term relationship.
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Just like being married.
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I always say she was kind of my first life partner because I wasn't married when we started.
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That relationship, it's like I am
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in two marriages because they are very profound. There's a lot at stake.
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So that was 11 years ago. And now we're 50 people. So.
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Holy cow. The relationship that you and Jennifer have, like you said,
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it has to be stable. You have to be able to understand and work together in
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a way that's like working with your partner.
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Do you find that you each have roles that you play?
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Like not even realizing it, they've just naturally come to be.
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I've been co-president with people for years and different philanthropies and boards.
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And I find that the best people I've worked with just kind of know,
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you know that person's strengths. She knows your strengths.
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So you were able to just start doing things cohesively without even talking
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about it. Is that you two work together almost? Yeah.
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Yes. And sometimes when we have specific conversations about what each of us
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is doing, we almost laugh because we're like, we don't need to have this conversation.
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That's right. We know each other so well. We know what we're good at.
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We know what we're not really good at. And so...
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And there's also places where we overlap. You know, we definitely do overlap in a lot of places.
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And it's funny when we are looking at startups, advisors or investors are always
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like, no, founders need to have completely different skill sets and no overlap.
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And that's how it works. I don't believe in that at all. Some overlap is good.
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That is what you bond over. How we both see certain things eye to eye.
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She's better at numbers. While I respect the P&L and I know I have to think
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about how we hire and grow the business, she has a superpower of getting in
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the weeds and looking at it regularly.
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I'm more focused on clients and strategy and making sure the team is executing
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it. Well, she loves that and knows it. And it's her passion.
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She likes to come in on the creative side, brainstorming new ideas.
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She's so good on the fly with coming
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up with group pitches where I'm more analytical about how we do our job.
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And so it works really well. And then on the money side, sometimes I'm the dreamer.
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My husband would say I'm the dreamer at home, too.
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I go myself the chief magic maker. So, you know, I think on the other side with
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our business, I'm the one who's like, OK, so where's our retreat going to be?
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Are we flying everyone in? How is this going to be super fun?
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And she'll say, OK, yes, I know how important this is, but here's the budget.
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So we have this good balance. It just works. There's no formula. It works.
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So when you're bringing in new clients, you have some incredible clients right
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now, right? You have Fashionphile, Urban Stems, Parachute.
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I saw Magic Spoon. Yes, we launched Magic Spoon. They're the best.
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My sister lives in California.
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It's their kid's favorite cereal. Loves the bowls. Bowls that go with it.
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Oh, my gosh. They sent us a set of a bowl and spoon.
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And we have three kids. So my husband went and chose more sets because my kids
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were fighting over them. So now they each have their own bowl,
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their own Magic Spoon. Everyone's happy.
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It's great. The brands that you have are all...
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Emerging brands they're all fantastic they
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all have some sort of mission behind them how are
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you finding them do they come to you because your catalog
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is exceptional like it's everything i look at as a consumer you want someone
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that's doing something good for the environment giving back in some way a percentage
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is going somewhere they're doing something or just by operating they're doing
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less harm if that makes sense so like grove collaborative is a marketplace that's all clean,
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safe products to help us live healthier lives in our homes, because what we
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don't realize is all of our cleaning products emit toxins into the air,
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live healthier, but also we are going to do this in a way that's more sustainable
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and better for the planet.
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They're on a mission to reduce plastic consumption, which touches everyone.
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Every single brand is the innovator or the challenger to their category.
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We like to work with brands that launch to market like a magic spoon,
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but they all have those through lines. We look at our whole roster.
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They're reinventing something, innovating something that wasn't working and
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providing something better for consumers, whether it's food,
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beauty and wellness or fashion brands.
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So we are really lucky in the beginning, Jen and I had to leverage our network
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and hustle for new brands and assign things we didn't love.
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And like, you know, or we didn't think we're the coolest.
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But, you know, we're like, we have to get our feet wet. We have to just build
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up a body of work outside of what we've done before.
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But now, luckily, we can choose who we work with, but also most of it's word
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of mouth and comes in as a referral, whether it's from existing clients,
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which is the best kind of referral, obviously.
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Investors, the media refer us business, too, because they see how thoughtful
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we are about the brands we work.
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The way we pitch them, those brands, they are very generous in referring us
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when they meet founders or brands. We're like, what agencies are you liking?
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What are you seeing out there? It's the media, clients, investors, other PR firms, too.
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I think it's really important to play nice and be respectful of other agencies.
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There are other agencies who do certain things better than we do,
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and that's fine, or work with a certain category of brand better than we do.
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I think it's important to have healthy relationships with other agencies because
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they've also sent us business and vice versa.
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Playing nice in the sandbox helps. Yeah. Right?
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So Dermalogica, are they a current client? Yes. I have noticed,
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and I don't know when you started working with them, but I used them for years
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when I was younger, living in the city. They had a store in Soho.
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I could go down there and get all my product.
21:09
And now my kid, who's 12, uses their clean products. So we've gone full circle back to Dermalogica.
21:16
For him, it's a great, clean product. And I didn't want to put anything harsh on his skin.
21:22
One of my best friends is an esthetician,
21:23
and she's like, face wash and moisturize. Don't do anything else.
21:27
So I went to them. Yeah, I think Dermalogia is one of those great examples of
21:30
a heritage brand that has a very deep rooted foothold in the space.
21:37
They have a huge spa and medispa foothold, you know, because they are expert
21:44
crafted, you know, by estheticians and science and the products really work.
21:50
So they have this amazing foundation that already exists in brick and mortar
21:54
when you go and get facials they've benefited from is the...
22:00
Prevalence of younger generations caring about their skincare more.
22:03
And that started because women who are older than them are more like their social
22:07
media. We're talking about our skincare routines, the need for hormone care.
22:11
There are so many preteens going through so much of the issue.
22:15
You know, you're finding your identity and now you're dealing with acne.
22:19
I remember when I was younger, it was like proactive was the only option. You had to order it.
22:23
Yeah. But now there's so many options, good or bad.
22:28
When you have a brand that is rooted in science, has a deep history with the
22:33
shoppers, so the moms, I continue to buy.
22:36
Of course, I'm going to now give Clear Start, which is their teen care line
22:40
to my teens. They really benefited from that.
22:42
What they did that never changed was continue to make the best products built by science.
22:48
They've never deviated, no matter what brand is coming around,
22:51
that doesn't have the science and the backing to keep up with them.
22:55
So that's why we love brands that come to us that are more established.
22:59
Obviously, Dermalogica has an unbelievable history. But when they are thinking
23:02
about things in an innovative way and they're thinking about how they're marketing
23:05
and they're like, we understand what's happening in the world.
23:07
They're showing up at F1 and doing cool activations.
23:10
So smart. So when there's a brand who's like, no, we're ready to play.
23:13
That is when we're excited if they're more of a heritage brand.
23:16
Yeah. But that's exciting because you know, they're changing with the times,
23:20
even though they're keeping to what they're good at. Exactly.
23:22
They're staying in their lane. They're doing what they know. it,
23:25
has changed so much. I noticed this just as a human growing up,
23:28
how advertising and media has changed for the years.
23:32
How have you maneuvered through that? Because we've gone through this cycle
23:35
of influencers and now influencers, I know when I talk to my friends,
23:39
you're like, we don't listen to everyone.
23:41
There are certain people we trust because we know they're honest and they're
23:45
not just being given product.
23:46
So I'm so curious about how that works on your end now with trusted people in
23:51
and getting them product and the dynamic of marketing now, how it's changed. A hundred percent.
23:58
I mean, when I was first starting in PR, you'd have a Marie Claire and you're like, I want that boot.
24:04
And you ripped out the page and you would go to the store and be like, I need this boot.
24:07
That obviously doesn't happen anymore. I still rip pages from magazines.
24:10
I love that. I still get magazines.
24:12
And you still get magazines. That's really good. And I still rip pages. Great. I like paper.
24:16
Yeah. I still use a paper planner. Well, I'm the same.
24:19
I use a paper planner and I read physical books. Physical books.
24:22
I cannot read on a screen. I want to smell it. I want to turn the page.
24:26
I want to see my progress.
24:27
I want that experience. I can't look at a screen all day.
24:30
I'm already on a screen. Also, I think the media landscape has changed immensely in the past 15 years.
24:37
It has changed exponentially in the past five. The publicists who are identifying
24:42
that and taking advantage of the new media that emerges cannot sit around and
24:47
wait to be forced to engage with
24:50
a certain new platform or set of voices influencing how consumers consume.
24:55
What I say to my team all the time is we don't work for the media.
24:59
We work for the consumer.
25:00
We need to think about where he or she is shopping. Where are they consuming?
25:05
How are they making decisions?
25:07
And then making sure our brands show up where they are. We don't work for the
25:10
media. We don't work for our clients, actually. We work for the consumer.
25:13
This was maybe 12 or 14 months ago when Substack started becoming a thing.
25:18
The minute you hear a whisper, we jump on it.
25:21
Our team, they're so savvy and so smart. So they're hearing about it before me and Jen.
25:24
So, you know, so they are their antennas up of where are people gravitating?
25:29
Where are they migrating?
25:30
We've got the older millennial covered. We know where she is.
25:34
But we rely on our team who's under 30 to tell us where's Gen Z? Where's Gen Alpha?
25:39
Because what we've always known to be true is they don't do anything we do.
25:42
They don't have Facebook.
25:43
They think it's weird. They called it old. So for us, we're constantly reading
25:49
trend reports of new media platforms and where they see people showing up and interacting.
25:55
Like people underestimate Reddit where so many folks are getting information.
26:00
How do we get there? We have a journalist on staff. I've been working with her for 12 years.
26:06
She was a journalist, publicist, but now she works for us full time. And she is AR mole.
26:11
She understands. She knows what she hears what other journalists are talking
26:14
about. talking about. She's still getting pitched because she's still writing at a few outlets.
26:18
She is also looking at the trend reports from WGSN and all these great resources.
26:24
Trying to make sure we are ahead of the game.
26:25
I think our team is just, we are not going to wait to be last to the conversation or last to the pitch.
26:33
Anytime a new online outlet launches, we're always the first ones there because
26:39
I'm like, be first because they will answer your pitches.
26:42
Once people start paying attention, they're going to be inundated,
26:44
but they will always open a JVC email because we were there first.
26:47
We gave them real stories early.
26:49
We gifted them early. We engaged with them early.
26:52
That's been one of our tools to make sure that we are showing up in our places.
26:57
Even our clients will be like, why are you pitching that?
26:59
And we're like, trust us. This is where you're going to need to be.
27:02
And then six months later, like that was so smart.
27:04
So that's on the media side. But as far as influencers go, there is a gray line
27:07
between is an influencer or journalist, if they are someone that we should be
27:12
pitching organically, some are and some aren't.
27:15
There's a whole crop of influencers who we engage with just on an organic level
27:19
because they're also technically covering things and covering new brands.
27:23
There's social media, Instagram accounts that now are being pitched directly
27:28
because they're reporting like a news site, a news source, and vetting information
27:32
before they post it. So we're like, wait, we should be pitching them.
27:35
If we have something interesting and new and cool, well, they should be part
27:38
of the pitch matrix. And they started as like an influential just social media
27:42
platform, you know, account on Instagram.
27:44
So it's a really, really gray area.
27:47
There's no hard line of like, yes, influencers are media or no.
27:51
Some are, some aren't. They are part of the mix now. That's how people are discovering
27:55
brands, products, places to eat, places to travel to.
27:59
Like you choose the four or five people that you like their content,
28:04
trust their content. You believe they vet things before.
28:07
Even if they get paid, it's a brand that they will continuously promote.
28:10
And that's where I get a lot of my influence.
28:12
I'm influenced mostly by the people I follow. So they cannot be ignored.
28:16
I think it's fascinating. Same. I also wonder if it's ever going to end.
28:20
I think about it all the time. Right. Like, is there a bubble?
28:22
I remember years, maybe three years ago, there were so many stories and marketing
28:26
publications and fashion trade outlets writing, like, is there going to be an influencer bubble?
28:31
Like, is this going to end? And it was around the time the FTC started saying
28:35
you have to call something sponsored. You have to use the hashtags.
28:38
You have to start disclosing when you're being paid for things.
28:41
And people thought, oh, this is going to be the end of influencers because people
28:43
don't want to look at ads.
28:44
They don't want to look at something that was paid for. And that hasn't happened. Mm-mm.
28:48
So. I think consumers like to see that they're tagged as an ad because then
28:52
you feel like, oh, this is honest.
28:53
Because I remember when influencing started and you'd listen to someone and
28:58
you're like, five people just gave me this same pitch.
29:02
How many of you actually like it and you were just given stuff?
29:05
Right. So I think everyone thought they were just being given things.
29:08
And there was no clarity as to whether they really liked it or not.
29:12
And if they do like it and they put up the ad, I feel like you trust them more. Yeah.
29:18
Because you're like, I was given this. I've used it.
29:21
I'm still talking about it, like you said. I think it's more of the reality show.
29:26
Like there's certain reality shows where people start talking to the camera.
29:28
And I think it's the same with influencers when they didn't pretend that they just had all this stuff.
29:32
That's what was bothering me in the beginning. Tending that you just owned all
29:36
of this stuff. You bought it or whatever.
29:38
And it's like, no, no, you can say I was given this. I like it.
29:41
If you give an influencer something and they don't use it.
29:45
Will you not give things? How does that? There's a difference between organic
29:49
influencer work and paid.
29:52
So if you're working with a brand who doesn't have any budget to pay influencers,
29:56
but they can give product, it's an actual harder job because you have to vet
30:00
even harder and leverage your relationships and knowledge of that person to
30:04
know if they are willing to accept this product.
30:08
There's a high likelihood they'll post about it. But there's no guarantee because
30:11
all you did was gift a product. It relies on your knowledge of that person and
30:15
your relationship with that influencer to know, okay, this has an 80% chance of being posted.
30:20
Brands who don't have money to pay people are usually fine with that as long
30:23
as they feel like it's being strategic.
30:24
The problem is a lot of agencies or experiences are that things just get sent out willy-nilly.
30:31
All this inventory is now out in the world, but they never see those mentions coming back.
30:36
That's why it needs to be really strategic, super mindful. The relationship has to be there.
30:41
No blind gifting. so you can say, okay, there's a high likelihood within 30,
30:46
60 days, we'll see something back from this person versus paid outreach and paid work.
30:50
I'm paying, how much is an Instagram post? If you like this product,
30:54
we're going to pay you for an Instagram post, two stories and a reel and you
30:59
pay them that flat fee, but then you own that content.
31:02
You tell them the key messages, like what do you want you to say about this
31:04
product? What are the right hashtags?
31:07
You got to tag this brand, this handle and then we
31:09
can repost all of your content without any permission you still want to
31:12
do that with someone who feels authentic to your brand but it is paid and it's
31:15
a business for them this is their full-time job it's their livelihood so it
31:19
should be paid for they've built a following that's not easy as long as it's
31:22
a real following that's the other problem is like looking at you can always
31:25
tell when you look at someone's grid and you look at their how many likes they have and if it's less.
31:30
Than 10% of their total number of followers, usually those are fake followers.
31:35
That's a very easy, quick way to vet if someone has real or fake followers.
31:40
Those who have legitimately built followings, done the work,
31:44
posting content regularly and good content, then they deserve to be paid. Absolutely.
31:49
You know, I think it's a beautiful kind of relationship when it's done really well.
31:54
What makes a brand press worthy in today's market?
31:58
The product or service has to be good. It does not matter how pretty your branding
32:03
is. It doesn't matter how great your story is.
32:04
The product has to be good, whether it tastes good, looks good,
32:08
feels good, does what it says it does, whatever it is.
32:11
It has to be good or the service, whether you're a telehealth platform or whatever.
32:16
It has to be good. For us, we believe in the power of a great leadership story.
32:20
It doesn't have to be a founder. It could be a CEO.
32:22
Are you an all-female C-suite?
32:25
Who's running the business? People connect to people.
32:29
And faceless brands sometimes, you'll still buy it, but you won't feel loyal
32:34
to it. So we love when there's a great story of people to leverage.
32:39
Your branding needs to be catchy, interesting, stand apart from other brands.
32:45
Those three things at its core are what makes brands interesting or worthy of attention.
32:50
But then when you get into the nitty gritty, it's like one of our clients always
32:53
said this, and he's kind of a brand genius, was like, what is the unfair advantage
32:57
you have against your competitors?
33:00
And that's the story. That's what's interesting. That's the nugget you pull
33:02
out and then press the crap out of it. Oh, I love that.
33:06
And I try to think about that all the time, even with our team or how we're running JBC.
33:09
What's our unfair advantage against other people? At the end of the day,
33:12
our unfair advantage is me and Jen because we do not and will not work or run
33:18
a place that we would not want to work for ourselves.
33:21
Or wish I had worked there when I was their age, you know?
33:24
So you always think about, or I think about my husband's company,
33:27
like what's their unfair advantage? Or I think about the girls and the things they're doing.
33:31
That's kind of like, he unlocked this thing.
33:34
This was like eight years ago. What a great value to start with though.
33:38
I love that. What brand is really exciting for you guys right now?
33:42
Oh my gosh, so many. The one that I keep going back to that I'm really pumped
33:46
about is called MidiHealth.
33:47
Are you familiar? So Women's Health, right? Midi Health is a health care company
33:51
addressing women's whole health specific to 30 and up.
33:55
When you're starting to get into perimenopause, menopause, women are not given the proper support.
34:02
We are not prepared for that stage of our life.
34:06
No one told me, you know, once you start turning 35, you should start taking
34:10
folic acid, whether you're done having kids or not.
34:13
We hear about bone density, but what does that actually mean?
34:16
How do we change? Do we have to change our diet around 35?
34:19
The menopause conversation should not start at 50 or when you actually start
34:22
your first hot flash. It should start much earlier. And that's what their focus
34:25
is on giving you preparedness.
34:27
That could be everything from diagnostic testing, supplements,
34:30
medication, hormone replacement therapy, getting a DEXA scan, whatever it is.
34:34
Their whole thesis is women need to be prepared. They need to be set up for
34:38
success, not just dealing with it when it's already happening.
34:41
And this concept of longevity, but in a way that means it's really about live
34:45
your best life for as long as you're here. Yeah.
34:47
And this is true clinical care. It's also accepted by insurance. It is.
34:52
So many healthcare companies that launch, it's all out of pocket.
34:56
So that means the people who have access to money who probably are already set
35:00
up for success are the only ones who can afford it.
35:04
Meanwhile, MidiHealth accepts insurance. So any woman And who has health insurance
35:09
can access this, which I think is the key.
35:11
That's what I'm really excited about. Things that are truly important.
35:15
Shifting culture, righting a wrong or changing something.
35:19
That is when we get really pumped. I love all of our brands.
35:22
We get to choose who we work with. I'm excited about all of them because they're
35:25
all doing something special.
35:27
Mitty is a newer client, so they're probably in their first six months with us.
35:29
I'm very focused on them and I just love them and I think it's amazing.
35:34
So I want to talk about tariffs.
35:35
Yeah. Because you were featured in Fortune magazine.
35:39
This morning, I was talking with my husband and he was like,
35:44
oh, well, the snowboard brand just went on hiatus because of the tariffs.
35:51
And they thought, what is that, 125% in China.
35:55
So this one company, I can't imagine how many others are thinking this.
35:59
In my head, I've seen so many small businesses that I follow,
36:02
like the name stamp, which, you know, I buy for camp and have all those.
36:05
They announced last week, maybe the end of the week before, that they are just
36:10
going to sell through their existing inventory and shut down.
36:13
Like, we're not even going to bother.
36:15
And that's exactly the point of what we did with Juliette.
36:18
So 38 female founders with $800 million in combined revenue are asking for small
36:25
business tariff exemptions.
36:28
They're asking for three things. tariff exemptions for
36:31
small businesses below a designated revenue or employee threshold
36:35
assessments of tariff impact on small businesses before
36:38
tariffs are put into effect i mean that just
36:41
seems logical like a doubt support for transitions to domestic supply chains
36:46
including through tax incentives grants and technical assistance i was chatting
36:49
with friends yesterday about this because i was so excited to have you on i
36:52
listen to cnbc every morning i can't listen to regular news anymore so i just
36:56
listen to the business stuff and i'm like listening to ceos every morning.
37:00
A CEO came on and he's like, look, for us to move all of our supply chain to
37:05
the United States, it will take three years.
37:08
Three years for it to be made here. He was a huge company. If you're talking
37:12
about a small business, it's impossible.
37:14
Impossible. It's actually impossible. The United States does not have the infrastructure
37:17
for all of this made in America.
37:21
This takes decades to set up warehouses, the right factory workers. Number of factories.
37:28
So what people don't realize there's a lot of things that are made or assembled in America.
37:32
Many of those parts are from outside of our country. Yes.
37:35
And it's because they're made at scale at a better price point.
37:38
So when they are assembled and made in the U.S., we can still afford to buy them.
37:42
Or those countries are the only countries that can make those particular items,
37:47
whether it's an ingredient, a particular piece of technology.
37:50
Packaging, like literally those countries has expertises that do not exist in the U.S.
37:55
And will not exist for decades. And the idea that.
37:59
Imposing these tariffs will help the Made in America movement is a lie. It is not true.
38:06
And so for Juliet, for example, they are an American-based wine company.
38:12
They source their grapes from the U.S.
38:15
However, their packaging comes from outside of the U.S.
38:18
No one here makes the packaging. Their wine is exceptional. They are sustainable.
38:24
The brand is perfect in every way. One of their unfair advantages is their very
38:28
unique, beautiful packaging. that sets them apart from any other wine on the market.
38:34
So tariffs don't help them. They're wonderful. It was their idea,
38:36
like, should we speak up? What do we do? We have access to so many female founders.
38:40
And the reason why we honed in on female
38:42
founders is because they're also disproportionately disadvantaged. Yes.
38:45
For a lot of different reasons. So yes, we could have opened it up to any men,
38:49
women, it didn't matter. And it wasn't the point. The point wasn't,
38:51
oh, just female founders.
38:53
Every small business is impacted. Every midsize business is impacted.
38:56
The idea was just to get voices and coverage and awareness. It was just easier to focus.
39:02
At this point, we're over 50 founders who have signed and over a billion dollars
39:05
in revenue because we're keeping it rolling.
39:07
We have the pause, but that doesn't mean they're going away.
39:10
If this gets in front of the right people who are policymakers,
39:13
lobbyists or advocates that can sound the alarm in D.C.
39:18
And get these exemptions included, then we've done our job. It wasn't just to
39:22
get press and get Juliet more awareness. They wanted to have a voice and have
39:27
actual impact and change and make change that would positively impact so many
39:31
of them, including their competitors.
39:32
It does not matter. It's not about one brand or one category.
39:35
This will completely disrupt small business, entrepreneurs, people trying to build cool new things.
39:43
Could be anyone building a business, but it's the network that women have,
39:48
in particular now, business owners, that is so strong.
39:52
Yes. You're all listening to each other. That is very special.
39:56
I'm going to post all the information down below that people can read about.
39:59
Oh, awesome. Thank you. What emerging trends do you see shaping the future of
40:04
public relations? Oh, boy.
40:07
Changing how we define media relations, number one. And we talk about this every day internally.
40:14
And it's not about expanding services. I think you still have to be the best
40:19
at what you do. It's about evolving how you define media relations. That makes sense.
40:24
There's always been this idea that you have to do media relations and events
40:29
and influencer, and you do have to do their digital marketing,
40:31
you do all these things. But if you don't do them...
40:35
With a North Star in mind, you just do them to do them as a service,
40:38
you end up not being good at it.
40:40
So when we've launched a new service, it's always been to serve the idea of storytelling.
40:45
That has never changed in 11 years because that drives growth for our brands.
40:50
But it's how you change what storytelling means. Now it's showing up in a different way.
40:54
And it could be a video. It could be a 20-second clip.
40:58
It could be our podcast. It could just be a photo in a reel of an influencer.
41:04
But that's still telling a story.
41:05
But how is that all cohesive and strategic and not just throwing things at a
41:11
wall and hoping it sticks?
41:12
Evolving what media relations means and how we define it and how we define where
41:16
and how storytelling happens.
41:18
PR people, media relations folks, should start to own their own media platforms that are independent.
41:27
I said this to my business partner. She's like, you're insane.
41:29
But I'm like, no, that's brilliant. Right. Publishing is so different than it was 10, 15 years ago.
41:36
It's evolving and changing. I go back to my thesis that PR people work for the
41:40
consumer first and foremost, and we are the editors and the journalists before
41:43
the editors and journalists.
41:45
Why not have our own media platform? I feel like that shift should happen here.
41:50
Media folks work so far in the background. I think it's okay to say we are part
41:55
of this ecosystem. We don't have to operate in the shadows.
41:57
We help create the culture because we're bringing the right brands to the right
42:01
people to tell everyone what the culture is.
42:04
Maybe we should start building some of those culture blocks and own them ourselves.
42:09
You heard it here first. I think that's brilliant.
42:12
Thank you. Okay, so at the end, I always ask three questions.
42:14
The first one is, is there anything fun or different on your bucket list?
42:17
It's such a good question. I was thinking a lot about it. I don't have a bucket
42:20
list, which made me ask myself, why don't I have one?
42:25
And I finally answered myself. It's because I live by this mantra of have no
42:32
regrets, regret nothing.
42:34
Every single year I'm thinking about what do I do that year? What is it?
42:38
Like, is it take my three kids six and under Europe, which is ridiculous,
42:43
but we are fine. And looking back at the end of the year and saying,
42:47
I had no regrets. I did all the things I wanted to do.
42:50
Does that mean the sky's the limit? No, but I did it. That's a great answer.
42:55
Is there something you've changed your mind about recently?
42:58
It wasn't recent. It was in the last five years. I believe now aging is a blessing.
43:02
Of course, if you live a long life, you're blessed because you didn't perish early.
43:07
For me, it's more of like aging is a blessing because...
43:10
That means aging in a great way, like embracing the age, right?
43:16
And I remember my early 30s, I was like, God, adulting is so hard.
43:21
Especially then when we bought a house, we're like, oh my God,
43:23
this is so much work. You remember the days when your parents did everything
43:25
for you? That was so easy.
43:28
I was like, this feels rough.
43:30
But then I was like, no, I'm more confident in myself. I'm more comfortable
43:33
with who I am. And I know what I like. I know what I don't like.
43:37
I know who I want to be around and how I want to spend my time.
43:40
And I'm fully confident and comfortable in that.
43:43
Getting older is a blessing and you're lucky you're still here,
43:45
you know? And that's always, I think that also then ties back to like,
43:48
I just want to live every year with no regrets.
43:50
You start giving less care to things you don't care about. Exactly.
43:57
You have no space for it, but then you start giving more to things you do care about.
44:01
Exactly. And there's a grace in that. I also think like a piece in it.
44:05
I know every minute I've spent of my day has been doing the things that matter,
44:10
whether it's for other people, yourself, your kids, whatever.
44:13
But you made your own choice. And I feel like when we're young,
44:16
we do everything for other people, probably to our detriment.
44:20
That is a big theme in this couch, by the way.
44:22
We've all been coming full circle with that one. I love it. And the last question
44:26
is what piece of advice would you give to your younger self?
44:30
So this is a really good one. I wish I had started investing and being more
44:34
financially savvy earlier.
44:36
My parents were great about teaching us about the value of money,
44:41
forcing me to get life insurance at an age where I'm like, what?
44:45
I'm never going to die. However, and I've said this to so many of my friends
44:49
are going to laugh listening to this.
44:50
I think it's insane how much time we spend in school and never are taught a
44:56
practical finance course.
44:57
You leave college not knowing when your loan is going to start kicking in,
45:02
what interest means, like compound interest.
45:06
And then also teaching about compound interest in your favor.
45:09
How do you make that work for yourself? How do you build your retirement?
45:14
We should be talking about this and owning this process when we're 21,
45:17
not when you're older and you're like, oh, my God, I've lost 15 years or 20
45:21
years of being able to do this.
45:22
I asked our operations director how many folks were opted into our 401k.
45:27
And the answer she gave me was shocking because it was so few that I literally
45:33
like called everyone who wasn't signed up.
45:36
I'm like, put in the bare minimum. You need to do something.
45:40
This is a gift. We are giving you free money. Yeah. Like you have to put in something.
45:44
And I'm like, this is probably overstepping my boundaries, but I need you to sign up for this.
45:50
Yeah. This is specific to girls and women. Just like understanding money better,
45:54
understanding your own money better. Yeah.
45:56
And invest early. We all need to understand that.
46:00
I came out of college with student loans and credit card debt.
46:03
I have to get a big job to pay for that. The pressure of it all.
46:07
And it's just unfair.
46:10
That's my advice for my younger self and for any young person.
46:14
The Female Founders Network, are you part of that?
46:16
The Female Founder Collective? Yeah, that one. So that was Rebecca Minkoff.
46:20
Yeah, so Rebecca Minkoff and Allie launched Female Founder Collective.
46:23
You can put the Female Founder Collective stamp on your website or on your window
46:28
that lets people know this is a female-run business.
46:30
But they've built this collective where it's education, resources,
46:34
tools, mentorships, grants.
46:36
You know, it's amazing. We are informal partners with them. Jen and Rebecca go way back.
46:41
About six years ago, we started Female Founder Day with them,
46:45
the conference, which has taken off.
46:48
It's done now twice a year, usually in New York and or L.A. and we just did one in March.
46:54
So yeah, I mean, they're kind of, you know, one of our great partners in the
46:58
network. They're amazing and have supported us so much over the years.
47:01
When we were a much smaller business, we really value them. It's a fantastic
47:04
concept. I've been watching it for years. Oh, it's fabulous.
47:06
I just love when women are like, let's keep putting women out there in the best
47:10
way possible and supporting each other and reminding everyone that this is how we do things.
47:15
Well, and also saying that we are powerful and have influence and the finances
47:21
to help each other and help other people.
47:23
I'm also part of the WeSuite, which is another female organization.
47:28
It's female leaders, so it's not specific to founders, CEOs, CMOs.
47:33
We're working on building a bigger presence in Connecticut and Fairfield County
47:36
because there's so many amazing leaders who have moved from the city out here
47:42
or already lived here just doing amazing things, whether they're running a hedge
47:46
fund or their own business.
47:47
Interior designers or the doctors running big practices.
47:50
So there's a lot of money, experience, and knowledge in Fairfield counties trying
47:55
to extend and bring that network out here.
47:57
Hopefully be kicking off some events with Gray Barnes.
48:00
We'll have more of those happening and getting more Connecticut women joining
48:04
and part of the group. That'll be really nice. I love being a part of organizations.
48:07
I can't be a part of too many. I try to choose the ones where I have so much
48:10
value. She has great events, workshops, and speakers. So it's really beneficial.
48:15
This has been so much fun. Oh, thank you. I'm glad. I'm so much.
48:19
And I'm so grateful that you were able to come on and hang out with me for a
48:22
while. I am just glad to be asked. I love it. This is fantastic.
48:27
Thank you so much for joining me today on She's Smart. New episodes drop every Thursday.
48:32
Don't forget to subscribe and share. Stay cozy.