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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 180 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio, Strike
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: down the Middle of.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Dry disc.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Try these.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions, elevating you
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith News
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Talks be lead Rugby commentator with me as always for
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: at least this week.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: He is about to swam off overseas for.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: A week.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Sabbatical.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Liam Napier is back with us and Liam we records.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: In the wake of the All Blacks worst ever defeat
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Hands of the spring Box in the Capital, It's hard
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: to really zero in on exactly what went wrong apart
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: from everything, so I guess your initial top line thoughts
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: as the All Blacks contemplate just being absolutely walloped by
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: the spring Box.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: Yes, Elliott's it was the sun rose today, but it
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: was a dark day, isn't it?
• 1:33
  Speaker 5: Across the country.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: As you mentioned, the All Blacks heaviest defeat, their largest
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: loss at home, the most points conceded in the second half.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: South Africa scoring thirty six unanswered points, five second half tries,
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: and I think most who witnessed that game were stunned, really,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: and I can't remember in my time as a journalist
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: or even as a fan of the game watching are
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: worse thirty minutes from the All Blacks. And I think,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: to really illustrate that further, hordes of New Zealand fans
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: at the Capton left early. I have never ever seen
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: that at a home All Blacks test in my life.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: No, it was what I think about eleven minutes ago
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: when Coaga Smith made it twenty nine ten, if memory serves,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: locked up from our commentary position and saw that fans
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: were leaving in droves. Really, and you're right, I can't
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: recall an instance like that in New Zealand in the
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: rugby history, and that should send a message to the
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: All Blacks players, the All Blacks coaches New Zealand Rugbig
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: that what they delivered was not good enough across that
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: eighty minutes. And it's hard to because naturally we're going
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: to zero in on the All Blacks because we're in
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: New Zealand podcast. When New Zealand journalists the spring Box
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: were utterly outstanding. They beat the All Blacks in every
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: facet of the game. They deserved to win by that
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: score line, but naturally we're zeroing in on the All
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Blacks and going what on Earth went wrong? At ten
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: to seven and a half time, it felt like the
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: All Blacks obviously they were hit on the score, but
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: it felt like they was still didn't have really have
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: momentum in the game, felt like they were playing from
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: behind a little bit. They were struggling to get the
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: scrum going, but they were in the contest and they've
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: given themselves a freers chance heading into the second spell
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: with that three point lead at the break. But the
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: spring Boks just went up a level after halftime and
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks simply couldn't go with them. They were
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: clinging on, it felt like for a period of time
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: and then basically just went under the water and didn't
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: come back up well.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: There was a massive turning point in that first half
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: when Chesl and Colby gets interset. I think it's about
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: the twenty fourth minute. Billy Proctor had two men outside
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: of some Parker and Lee roy Card. I think they're
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: pretty much marked and the All Blacks attack at that
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: point is just starting to really click. That created the
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Lee Roy Cartera's first test try with sweeping movements across
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: the field, backs and forwards linking some really nice interplay
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: and that was a fourty point momentum swing and it
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: really did felt feel like the All Blacks just couldn't
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: get a grip of the game from then on the
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: spring box in that first half that I think they
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: had something like seventy three percent territory, but the same
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: issues blunted their game. They couldn't we couldn't finish their
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: opening try through R. G. Snyman was ruled out for
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: a couple of knock ons at the base. But then
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: they really got into their work in the second after
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: they and I think we've got a PAUSEEV and just
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: touch on the spring box because it was such a
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: drastic shift in style and it was a big risk.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: After Eden Park, Razi went all in on his veterans
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: at Eden Park. Then he made seven starting changes that
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: back line. I think they had something like one hundred
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: and seventy three caps. Boden Barrett and Jordi Barrett had
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: more caps between them than the whole Springbok back line.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: So it's a hell of a show of faith in
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: in youth in the next generation, and then the spring
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: Box had to actually cope with a number of different injuries.
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: They lost their fullback Fussy, they lost their starting first five.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Sasha Rhinanuk came and went, but Damien Willimpson was the
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: key to that Springbox game and the way they played
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: the off floading that the width, the ball movement. We
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: haven't seen the Springbox play successfully like that for a
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: long time, and it did feel like a real turning
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: point for the Box and the way that they will
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: now go forward.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: It felt like the game plan that Tony Brown was
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: trying to implement at Alice Park that didn't quite come
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: to pass, or at least did for thirty forty minutes
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: of that game and then fell apart in the second spell.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: It felt like that was the fruits of that labor.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: That was a bit more understanding of what they were
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: trying to do, a bit more confidence in the game plan,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: and they just overran the All Blacks and by the
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: end of it, they were running rings around the All Blacks.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: The All Blacks look fatigue, that looked tired, and by
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the eightieth minute, the spring Box, who had to dip
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: into the bench. Did you said early, we're looking the
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: fresher team, looking at the more confident team. They played
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: with pace and power and just ran over the All
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Blacks into submission.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: Well, there's been Springbok performances in recent times where they've
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: overpowered the All Blacks or won through their physicality or
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: their ability under the high ball and their kicking game.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: But they tore the All Blacks two shreds. They did
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: an All Blacks to the All Blacks almost and the
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: fundamentals were still there. They did a number on the
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: All Black scrum. Jason Ryan came out and said, after
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: the big tight head at Eden Park that will never
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: happen again. Well, the All Black scrum did not improve.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: The All Blacks lineout imploded, particularly when Brody McAllister came
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: off the bench, and there was some weird tactical decisions
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: around where they were throwing at that time, which probably
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: didn't help him. But the Springboks just feasted on the
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: All Blacks mistakes. They grew in confidence and then in
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: that last twenty minutes when the Springboks are running rampant,
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: I think you've got a question. Not necessarily the All
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Blacks effort, but the heads dropped, and you should never
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: see that from the All Blacks. Some of their defense
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: was feeble. They missed forty six tackles.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is unacceptable for an All Black.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: So they missed forty in Buenos aidis remembory off the
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: top of my head, though obviously careering to a defeat
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: at that point in the game, but to blow it
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: out to a record margin I thought was really poor.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: The game was done probably before Quagasmith made it what
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, late in the game, with about eleven minutes
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: to go, but to con see two more tries Simon
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Estehesen in the closing stages, the heads did drop, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: that is inexcusable, I think from an all Black side. Yes,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: if you're going to lose, lose with your heads held high,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: with some valor, with something, with some pride in your performance.
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: But if anything, they basically switched off and resigned themselves
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: to the defeat.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: Well, look at the first half.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: Look at Jordi Barrett's sack on Cheslin Colby, Try savor.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: That's the sort of effort, the benchmark effort, that you
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: expect from all Black teams, regardless of the score. Regardless
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: of the occasion, regardless of the opposition, And I don't
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: think we saw that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: And you're right.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: It comes down to pride, pride in your performance, pride
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: in the jersey. And you know, the All Blacks are
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: built up and sold around the world. Is this mythical
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: beast that's you know, has history and legacy. Well, that
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: sort of standards damages the brand massively.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: And there's been two of these sort of defeats in
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: recent years thirty five to seven in London in twenty
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: twenty three under a different coaching set up. Now this
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: performance over the weekend forty three to ten and winning,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: you know, is what this legacy of the All Blacks
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: is built on. Every team is going to lose, but
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: their record is something they sell around the globe, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: to lose by that margin creates ripples, creates headlines, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: I think it could do damage to the All Blacks brand,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: just if we go away from that topic, just from
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: the game itself for just a moment. I think these
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: losses do hurt the All Black's reputation around the globe.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, of course it does, because the All Blacks
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: brand's built on excellence, on innovation on leading the world.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: And I think if you look at a couple of
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: weeks ago, the All Black swe number one in the world,
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: while you and I and most rugby followers question that,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: and I think we're now seeing the reason why, because
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: if you broaden the context out, the patchy form of
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: this All Black team has been in the spotlight going
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: right back to July. Really against the French team that
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: was significantly under strength, they pulled out one performance against
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: the weakest French team of that whole series. Then they
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: go one on one in Argentina, pull out of performance
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: at Eden Park when they're backs to the wall when
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: the occasion demanded it Artie Severe's hundredth and they spoke
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: so much about getting back to that same mental level.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: Maybe they focused on that too much, I'm not too sure.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: But to then lose to the spring Books again the
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: following week, that they're consistently inconsistent, and for a coaching team,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: that sort of suggests to me that they're being found out.
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: They've been worked out, that teams are playing them once,
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: playing them twice, and they're not showing them enough different pitches.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: No, and this isn't just a Robertson era issue for
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks. It goes back to the Foster era
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: and even the latter stages of the Hanson era where
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: there were a few losses and obviously culminated in that
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: defeat it to England in twenty nineteen. But it feels
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: like the All Blacks have been stagnant for a number
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: of years now and this is through different coaches. So
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: is that the players that are the issue? Is that
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: the coaching is not up to standard? Is is it
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: a bit of both?
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: I think it's a bit of everything.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: And look, we also have to have a bit of
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: perspective test rugby, isn't it is an incredibly competitive beast.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: No team in this Rugby Championship has won back to
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: back games. They're all two and two, So what a
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: tournament from a neutral's perspective. But the All Blacks, as
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: we've sort of touched on here, they've built their whole ethos,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: their brand around being number one, around being excellent, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: they demand the highest of standards and they've come back
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: to the pack massively and I think that was maybe
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: always going to happen, But there's some real question marks
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: around areas of their game that aren't improving and haven't
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: improved for some time, and the flip flop of.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: Results around leadership, coaching innovation.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: You know, the All Blacks, where's the number WI We've
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: seen a little bit of that and the set piece
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: plays that came off at Eden Park, but we're not
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: seeing it often enough. I think it was quite telling
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: that the All Blacks winn at Eden Park with Wayne
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: Smith and that coaching group and then have a massive
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: step backwards when he's not there the following week.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Indeed, looking at some of those stats last night, yes,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Sava Boss the territory, the All Blacks couldn't play in
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: the right areas of the ground. They didn't have enough
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: quality ball, They were suffocated and they were often going
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: backwards when they did get their opportunities. And for an
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: All Blacks team, they need to be able to swing momentum.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: And they had a moment in the second spell where
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: it felt like they needed a little we win, little
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: moment just to try and hook back in and get
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: back into the Test match. They got a penalty, they
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: had a lineer in s Afogo's twenty two and then
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: walls the tea. He gets penalized off the back of
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: that for obstruction, the pressure of vlve way off the
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: string looks just as the All Blacks were trying apply
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: some heat for the first time of the game. It
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: was those little things that the All Blacks just weren't
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: able to get right. But then the issues compounded over
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: the course of the game. And for me, I think
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: the issue with the All Blacks is that once they
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: get put on the back foot this team, they can't
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: seem to find a way to get on the front
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: foot again. And that's an intangible, it's an unknown thing,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: but you can kind of sense it watching the game.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: Is that when they put under pressure for long periods
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: of time, there's no one looking for, you know, playing
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: for territory, playing for a fifty twenty two, trying to
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: lift the team and swing the momentum. It feels like
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: they're almost resigned to, you know, playing and trying to
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: call their way back to the surface when it's simply
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: not working.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very fair observation. The lack of composure
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I think we've seen when things aren't going their way.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: And I think about Argentina, the loss over there and
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: the way in which that train inspired with a late
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: try to Somersny Takyaho and then a yellow card to
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: sever Reese and then some botched line outs again down
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: the stretch. That lack of composure, the lack of clinical finishing.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: You mentioned that the line out there, but also Will
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Jordan a couple of moments there was a sweeping movement
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: he went through and I'm not sure if he was
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: trying to hit Billy Procter on the outside, but his
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: pass has gone long, it falls at Leroy Carter's feet
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: and the opportunity goes begging. Then late in the match,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: Will Jordan reaches out and grounds the ball before the line.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: So deal Black's had chances, But it's the ability that
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: you talking about to wrestle the momentum back. And yeah,
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: it's difficult against the team as big and powerful and
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: in this case as skillful and ambitious as the spring
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: Box were. But you need your on field leaders to
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: stand up. You need somebody to grab the game and
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: change the momentum to pull off a big play, and
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: we're not seeing that from the All Blacks when they're
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: really under the pump.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: No we're not.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Aerially they'll put under pressure again in that match. I
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: don't know what the issue is well, I do not
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: what the issue is they can't catch. I don't know
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: why they haven't been able to fix it or find
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: fixes to it. It seems like every team in the
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: world now knows that's the way to strike fear into
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks is by going to the skies and
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: putting the All Blacks under pressure, because you know they're
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: going to cake it under that high ball more often
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: than not. And these are some good players that are
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: just seemingly incapable of catching high balls, and they've trained it,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: They've put a lot of effort into training. Doesn't seem
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: to be fixing anything that's on that side of the ball.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: But it's also when the All Blacks go aerial themselves,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I don't think they're getting enough distance or height from
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: their own kicks. They keep them low, they don't get
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: a lot of distance on them, whereas our start we
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: saw Money Libbock and a couple of other spring box
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: because go really high, you know there's a lot of
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: hangtime on those. It creates the indecision around it and
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: puts pressure on We're not seeing that from the All Black.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: So I think on both sides of the aerial game,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: they've got a hell of a lot to fix.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: It feels very akin to two thousand and nine, when
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: I think it was the ELVs experimental law variations came
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: in and the kicking was very prevalent. And we're at
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: that point in rugby at the moment where World Rugby
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: have clamped down on escorts and anyone surrounding the jumper,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: and the All Blacks aren't coping with it.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: They haven't made their adjustments.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's a technical thing, maybe it's tact tactical, but
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: they're not getting it right.
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Not selecting Caleb Clark has been a big glaring mistake
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: for me. He's your best aerial exponent on the edge.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying he's going to come in and solve
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: the issue overnight, but he's tall, he's great in the air,
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: not just under the high ball, but from kickoffs as well.
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: Often gets the restarts back, So I think he has
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: to come into the frame and whatever the All Blacks
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: are doing at training with Paul noodles in their faces
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: or what's the crash pad where we're jumping up, it's
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: not working. So maybe we've talked previously about a mike
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: the kick or some specialized outside help. I'm not sure
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: if that's the answer, but I think also we're seeing
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: here the fact that wingers and outside backs aren't necessarily
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: exposed to this in Super rugby. It's not part of
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Super rugby, isn't really the kicking is not as prevalent.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: So the All Blacks have been exposed there. But it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: not just one issue. Is it that that's one element?
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: But there are several parts of their game that aren't
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: improving week to week.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: No, they're not.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Lineout was shambles late in the game. Brady McAllister came
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: on and the line out felder bits. The hooker gets
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of the blame for that, and it's the
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: way it goes. But you'd have to seriously question whether
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: McAllister gets another All Blacks opportunity.
• 18:25
  Speaker 5: It's twice now, yeah, exactly.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: He came off the bench in Hamilton in the third
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: French Test and miss first three throws. So yeah, there's
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: a number of different moving parts to a lineout, but
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: there's a real common theme there.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: There is scrum time. You touched on it earlier, but
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks said they worked on it. They put
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: a lot of resource into it this week, Well, it
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: didn't look like it. And the problem being is that
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I know they got a scrum penalty at least once
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: last night, but when you start painting those pictures to
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the referee, it's very hard to unshow them to the
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: referee and he's seeing momentum going one way or the
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: other and they were going backwards and so it's very,
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: very hard to get back into that contest. But the
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: All Blacks have prided themselves over on their scrum the
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: last couple of years. Well, it feels like I've taking
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: a massive leap backwards in that part of the game
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: over the last.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Couple of weeks.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's widely recognized that South Africa's the
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: best scrummaging team and wild Rugby ox Niche is the
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: if not the then one of the best scrummages in
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: the world game, and the All Blacks have really struggled
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: to match that. And tyro A Lomax was promoted to
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: try and shore up that scrum and he had some success,
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: but the All Blacks were very much on the back
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: foot throughout that game. It looked like they were basically
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: trying to get the ball in and out as quickly
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: as possible, and they were back peddling most of the time.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: So it's a key focus for.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Jason Ryan and it will be a real source of
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: dented pride because the set piece is the best attacking
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: strike platform in the game at the moment defenses have
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: to set back. We saw the All Blacks have that
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: success there at Eden Park, and when you set pieces
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: under pressure, it's really hard for any elements of your
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: of your game to come together.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Try try ten sixty every tackle, get up again.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Before time.
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: It's Rugby Direct.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: It's interesting just seeing a lot of the comments around
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: the game last night and some of the reactions from
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: commentators and that sort of thing.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And we've just come back from the airport and you
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: said Mills Mooley and I.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Said this, I Kiaran Reid said a couple of critical
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: comments postgame last night as well. Apparently you know something
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: along the lines of there is something wrong inside this team.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: How do you fix that?
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: I guess is the question.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: Well, I think we're at the point now and it's
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: not knee jerk because we're eighteen months into Scott Robertson's tenure,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: and I think from the outset there were question marks
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: about the inexperience at test level of this coaching team,
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: the balance of it in terms of forwards.
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: And backs, and just how it's operating as well.
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: And I think there are serious question marks about that
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: that coaching team.
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: But how do you think it's functioning well?
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's not functioning well enough.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: We can accept that Test rugby the gap has closed,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: but you can't accept a record defeat. And you can't
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: accept that lessons aren't being learned week to week and
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: the same mistakes are being made, and the lack of
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: attacking penetration isn't there and the defensive lapses aren't there.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: We saw South Africa play with pace and power and
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: accuracy last night and all facets of the game. They
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: blasted the All Blacks at ruck time, they were strongest
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: set pieces we've touched on. When they had ball in hand,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: it felt like they were paying it a pace at
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: the just couldn't keep up with. And now the All
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Blacks have talked about wanting to play at pace and
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: play with accuracy and play fast. Well, Spring Walks did
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: that last night, and so I would Haste. I would
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: question whether the game plan is the right one for
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: the all Blacks that they're trying to use at the moments.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I think I'm not sure whether they've got too many
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: cooks in the kitchen around their structure and their attacking
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: play and everything like that, but whether they've got the
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: right people in those places. Because you look at the strongbox,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they've got a huge coaching staff. You've got Jako Piper
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: is the refereeing consultant and he's out there meeting with
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: the referees and everything like that. Dwayne Vermullin is their
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: breakdown specialist. Essentially, they've got any number of coaches, so
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's too many. Potentially, I think it's
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: the right cooks in the kitchen, and Dora say it,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: I think they're lacking and this would be a big
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: step for New Zealand rugby, but you know they're lacking
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: some overseas experience to come in and tell it how
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: it is and how the rest of the world's playing,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: and how the rest of the world looks at rugby
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: and looks at New Zealand, because it feels like New
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Zealand's fallen behind. You know, we export a lot of
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: coaches overseas and they're on high demand. Don't get me wrong,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: but it feels like you actually need some of that
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: outsider perspective. And now I don't know who's available and
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: who's got the kind of CV that would be the
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Ronanagara is probably quite happy at stard Rochelle for example,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: brother and coming in being a member of the All
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Blacks coaching stuff. But you look at the spring Box.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Jerry Flannery is involved there, the irishman Tony Brown part
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: of that stuff as well. They've got a healthy number
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: of South Africans there, but they've got a whole lot
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: of perspectives that allow them to try and figure out
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: the best game plan to utilize these strengths. And I
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: think it'd be pig headed to suggest that New Zealand
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: is the epicenter of rugby and that the five or
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: six key members of that All Blacks coaching stuff, you know,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: other best people for the job.
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a valid point.
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: I know. I'll give you a lot of stick about
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: the cruse and all that sort of thing as well,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: But on a genuine note here, I think the worry
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: for me is it's quite a close shop there and
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: from what I understand of that coaching team, it is
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: now a very close shop, tight knit crew between Hanson,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Scott Robertson and Jason Ryan. Those guys aren't necessarily hugely
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: worldly in their coaching experience, particularly in a test rugby arena.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Where's the discerning voices you talk about the spring box.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: If you think about Russia, Russumus and Tony Brown, They're
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: almost coming from polar opposite views, aren't they. Tony Brown's
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: the attacking mind, the innovation. Russ's very much that old
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: school Springbok rugby well that came together on Saturday night.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: And just in terms of the wider All Blacks coaching team,
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Jason Hollins that the strike coach, how much, say, does
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: he actually get in the attack with Scott Hansen, I'm
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: not too sure. Tammody Ellison's been elevated very quickly into
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: a contact defensive role. Is he ready for that brief
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: when you look around the world at test rugby's defensive coaches.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: So look, with a performance like this, the spotlight goes
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: on everyone, but it does start at the top and
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: it's that patchy form outside of this one off result
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: that that's probably almost more worrying for the All Blacks
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: that they can't string together back to back performances, that
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: they need an occasion or emotion to get to a
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: certain level, and that they are being figured out that
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: they're not progressing.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: And so.
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: Scott Robinson when he got the job, knew his coaching
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: team a long way out, didn't he. We've seen change
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: with Liam McDonald moved on and in previous regimes were
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: then Foster. We saw how much of an movements a
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: change in assistance can have. So I don't expect to
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: see change yet. But this is a very live discussion
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: and I don't think it's as simple as beat the
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: Wallabies at Eden Park and everything's right again. Because we've
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: seen this flip flop nature of the All Blacks. We
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: need to see some consistency, some improvement before this coaching
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: team sort of out of the woods.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's important to suggest that this isn't
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: knee jerk stuff. What we saw at sky Stadium was
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I guess the culmination of this stop start, hot, cold
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: All Blacks performance that again, it's not just the Scott
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Robertson area era, but it's basically been going back, you
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: know since twenty twenty, if not slightly before then around
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: two steps for one step back. We saw the Island
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: defeat in twenty twenty two. We saw them go to
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: South Africa and lose and then win and save Foster's job.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: We saw you know, the All Blacks Mount Smart Stadium
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three again to spring Box. Then three
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: four weeks later they lose in London before the World
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: Cup to a record score and the NC. Yeah, that
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: game didn't matter, but it's symptomatic of where the All
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Blacks have been over the last five or six years,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: is that there's been no stake in the ground, right,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: this is the way we play now, and this is
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: the way we play consistently. There's been just any number
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: of steps forward and then following week week after whatever
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: it might be won, two steps backwards.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think we're also seeing just how much of
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: a step up it is from super rugby.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: We see that with players, yep, look at Billy Proctor.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: He has been the best center in Super rugby for
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: at least two years and hasn't made the step up
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: to Test rugby. And I think we're seeing that with
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: coaching as well. Look at the influence that Joe Schmidtz
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: had on the Wallabies. He's a guy that's took transformed.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: Irish came in and my mind was the driving force
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: behind the All Blacks transformation.
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: Then he goes to the Wallabies.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: So test experience matters whether you're a player or a coach,
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: and I think we're seeing those floors born out in
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: this All Black coaching team.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Indeed, just before we wrap up this half of the podcast,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: I guess we'll get into selection discussion next week. You'll
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: be away, but I guess probably a good chance for
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: you to say, now, you know, where do you go
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: to for eden Park? From an All Blacks perspective, you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: it felt like last night players that played well at
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: eden Park went backwards. Felt like it feels like when
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Artie Sava plays well, the All Blacks play well. He
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: didn't play well last night. Cody Taylor will come back
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: in for eden Park. Can Roygard apparently Progression really well,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: so there's two changes there as well. Billy Proctor, I
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: don't know. I thought perhaps even his best Test match
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: last night, but I'm not even sure that's enough to
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: save his Josey for the next seast was leicsterfying a
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Nooku on the horizon. Leroy Carter, we just mentioned him,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: you know, debuting. I thought he had a solid debut.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: But do you make sweeping changes for eden Park and
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: really try and send a message.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: What's the approach here them?
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we will see some change here. Scott
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Robertson retain the faith for eden Park, but with the
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: patche form, I think he's going to have to pull
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: a few levers and that could be less defying a
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: noooko at center. I think cam Rouygar makes a massive difference.
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: You go from effectively fin Lay Christie because he played
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: seventy odd minutes of that game after Nahopam has injured
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: his ankle could be gone for the year, the other
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: ankle so very sad setback for him in his comeback game.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: But fin Lay Christie to cam Rougard's I mean you're
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: jumping like twenty rungs in the half back qu In
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: the world game regards attacking influences, booming left boots will
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: have a massive impact. You mentioned Cody Taylor there. Caleb
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: Clark has to come back in for me. Potentially you
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: could switch Lee Ricarda to the right wing. I don't
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: see any reason why he couldn't do that. Defensively, He's
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: probably got a bit of work to do. But that's
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: right across the board. For this All Black team, will
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Jordan probably goes back to fullback the forward pack. Look,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: they fronted physically against the box. It's a matter maybe
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: it's a technical thing. Maybe to Mighty Williams he wasn't
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: great off the bench, but he could perhaps come in
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: and start. But the Orblick's actually there's not too many
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: players outside that squad that you could go to, is there.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: No, that's the thing, isn't it. You know, these are
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: the players that I think consensus wise, you might quibble
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: over a player here all there, but are regarded as
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: the best player in the country.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You know, Hoskinstitutor still has his fans.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Dalton Papolli still has his fans, but it's not like
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: they're banging down the door at the moment either to
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: be picked out of the NPC.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: The All Blacks have had a look at.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Them and discarded them.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Luke Jacobson's a player that for me has you know,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: been at Tesla for five or six years now. I
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: can't see him, you know, really ever, being you know,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: a first choice All Blacks loose forward. So it's a
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: matter of these players that are there just have to
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: basically deliver, isn't it It is?
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: And for the coaching team to bring out the best
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: in them.
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: That's that's their role.
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: And yeah, there's other guys like Peter Luckeye or a
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: few others on the fringe, but they're not really massive
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: game changing shift the needle type selections, are they, So
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: it's up to the All Blacks to drill down and
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: find some quick fixes. What did you make of Scott
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Robinson's reaction to all this? Because he's not great after
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: a defeat, he needs some time to process it, to
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: analyze the game, maybe rewatch it. So immediately postmatch didn't
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: offer a lot, but even one day on from that,
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: reasonably calm and composed, certainly no sense of panic despite
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: being in charge of the biggest defeat in All Black's history,
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: which is another unwanted record on the first defeat at Argentina.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: So yeah, do you think is.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: It a matter of projecting calm while there's maybe a
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: sense of panic behind closed doors? Watch a sort of
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: read on how he's approached the post mortem.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: I think he's just an outwardly calm person in his
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: dealings with the media and tries to keep it a
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: level head whatever's thrown at him. We've seen him passionate
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: in the coach's box during games when they cut two
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: shots of him there, so they're clearly there is a
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: passion for this team, and I don't doubt there is
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: a passion behind what he does and the decisions he
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: makes of the team. I don't think he conveys that
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: necessarily though when he does speak to media. I think
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: it takes a while for him to collect his thoughts
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: on the games and exactly what went wrong. But I
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: guess you've got to almost reflect the public mood in
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: a way, regardless of what your own mood is and
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: what you're trying to convey. You almost have to go, well,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: the public wants to see this, so I have to
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: do it. It's like being a politician in a time
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: of crisis. Whatever, what does the public want to see?
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: What does the public need to see from me this?
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: And you have to pivot to that persona regardless of
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: whether it suits you, whether it regardless of whether you
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: feel like you're playing a character or whatever it might be.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: You almost have to just go this is what the
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: public needs to see from me for this moment in time.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: I'm going to deliver it. And we saw Russi Erasmus
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: when they got beaten by the Wallabies at Alice Park
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: last month. I was listening back to the medi conference
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: this morning. You know he said it was as dog
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: shit and you know most all Blacks fans would have
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: described that performance at sky Stadium as dog shit. Yeah.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Look, Robinson said he was probe today at the airport
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: when we were there about it, and he didn't really
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: go far enough. For me, I think there needs to
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: be a bit more blunt transparency. Honestly, we weren't good enough.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: We didn't get it right. It's unacceptable just that that's
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: the sort of public messaging that I think fans can accept.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: We'll get behind and rather than yeah, there's only a
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: couple of things and we'll draw down into them and
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: then everything will be hunky dory.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: It was a bit yeah, but once over lightly.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: For me, well, it'll be a vacuum of all Blacks
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: noise for the next few days because they're dispersed, and
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: we'll come back in next weekend to build for the Bledislow.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: I've got two quick questions for you, all right, who
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: wins Rugby Championship from here?
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I think South Africa two tests. Importantly, they don't have
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: to go to Argentina. That Test is being played at
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: in Twickenham. If they had to go to Argentina with
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: a travel that's on a tricky way to go from
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: South Africa.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I think they.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Probably went out against the Argentina and take both of
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: those games. With all due respect to Los Pomas, I
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: just think it's a hard road for them to get
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: to this point. So I hope South Africa winning it
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: from the all back. So I think we'll do enough
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: against the Wallabies. Wallaby's third and probably Argentina fourth.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: But it's tight it is, and look that could be
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: a real stake in the ground performance from South Africa.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: It felt like a generational swing and it's going to
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: be fascinating to see what Russia Rasmus does now he rested, dropped.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: Whatever way you want to term it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Damien de Linde, Jesse Crele ebenez Tebeth, Willie LaRue.
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: Are they done and dusted? Does he bring some of
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: them back?
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Because you look at the way Damian Willenson played at
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: twelve and then and then fallback. How do you drop
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: a guy like that after that performance and some of
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: those proven box veterans are not capable of playing in
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: that manner.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: No, but I think it's the horses for courses now
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: for us Erasmus and what he's done over the last
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: two games has gone we can play this way, we
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: can play that, and yep, you'll be able to pick
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: which way we're playing by the players we select. But
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: you know you got to try and defend it. And
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: I think that's a scary thing for opposition teams is
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: now the Sprinklers have found depth and not only personnel
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: but their game plans. And there's not a lot of
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: teams that I don't think in the world at the
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: moment that have a way to stop that.
• 36:56
  Speaker 5: Bill Lex are vulnerable.
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: Is this the best Wallabies chance at claiming the Bledders
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: though in five six plus.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Years, Yep, I think it is. We've seen the All
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Blacks get a little bit bullied in recent times. I'm
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: not sure the Wallabies have the players like South Africa
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: to do that. I think if it gets into a
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: running game, the All Blacks should be better. If it
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: gets into a Ford contest, the All Blacks should be better.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: But the Wallabies are playing entertaining and attacking rugby at
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: the moment and when they get a roll on, they're
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: very hard to stop. We saw that at Alice Park.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: We saw it last week in that game in Townsville
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: where they came back from that deficit. We saw it
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: in the game yesterday where they came back from a
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: huge deficit as well and almost full ste a victory
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: despite a full pass. So they're they're close, the Wallabies,
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: so I think it is their best chance.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: What say you?
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: I don't see them winning both games to win the
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: Bletters though, but I can see them getting won. And
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: what I would say about the Wallabies is there is
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: a real depth of character about their team. We saw
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: that Alice Park. We've seen that in those other comebacks.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: They believe in themselves and they know the way they
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: want to play. They've got some phenomenal athletes and Joseph
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: Sui Lee the well led by Harry Wilson, and I
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: think they come over here unburdened, with a bit fearless
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: and they'll have a real crack And Joe Schmidt will
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: know this all black team well, so it's.
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: Going to be bloody interesting to see how that pans out.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Indeed it is.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: Before we go, let's talk the Black fans and South Africa.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: Look.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: South Africa put the Black Funds under some real pressure
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: early on in that game, ten all at halftime, the
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Black fans just a little bit too good after halftime,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: but a wee bit of a scare from the women's
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: box side, who have risen dramatically in the world rankings
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: over the last couple of years. But the Black fans
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: just doing what they're needed to do after halftime. I
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: think Scott Robinson said this morning is almost the inverse
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: of their game from last night. How do you feel
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: their place for Canada next week? Giving Canada just wipe
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: the floor with Australia overnight, Probably.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: A bit nervous, I think interesting to see the Black
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: woman having fifteen man mauls and following their male counterparts
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: of that sort of innovation. I thought the Black Ferns
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: was very, really strong defensively and that when they eventually
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: got some ball that they scored some nice tries, but
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: they were on the back foot for large parts of
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: that match and yeah, semi final. This is when the
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: tournament starts, isn't it. So I think I'm a wee
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: bit nervous for that game.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Well, Canada beat them last year, drew with them earlier.
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: This year, they've been put under Preshia Georgia Miller was
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: subbed off early in that game this morning, I think tactically,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: but also probably to keep her on eyes for a
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: semi final once they got to a twenty points to
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: ten lead. She's talismatic for that team. But I thought
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Alana Bremner started really really well overnight. A couple of
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: rampaging runs, a strong leadership across the park midfields and
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: is Shoe as well. With Amy Duplas ruled out of
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: the tournament, set a final on Waka Setafara went off overnight.
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: So great comeback from a couple of Wilson Baker as well.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: So there's gonna be interesting reselection mixed four of the
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Black Ferns this week and how they figure things out.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: But we look forward to.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: That game against Canada and yeah, let's fingers crossed that
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: the Black Fans get to a World Cup final.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, thoughts of that final three four years ago? Now,
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: that was an absolute doozy, so hoping for a rematch.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: That'll be hell of an occasion, wouldn't it on English soil?
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: It would be indeed that I'll about to us for
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: rugby direct. But it's important to reflect on the ran
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: for the shield result before we do wrap up Canterbury
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: keeping it saved by the bell George Bell after the
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: siren gets them home, keeps the shield and it's rifle
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: home only sort of last two or three minute this
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: game once we go back from the airport, but topsy turvy.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: The shields alive though, and for the first time in
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: four weeks it doesn't change provinces.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, great effort from the Marco and it's not what
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: the nation needed, is it?
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: The shield stage? So the dark day continues.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: No, that was the sun coming through. I think Liam,
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: you'll find thank you ver much as always. Liam, you
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: are off next week, not to heal the voice, but
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: over aweys in America.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: So have a good break.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, cheers, try and find some rest.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why we didn't have a podcast again last week.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: We just thought we'd get Liam to rest the vocal cords.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: Thanks to last and bars English. We will catch you
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: next week.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Where Are We?
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Joined by Nick Bubley, who's going to slot in four
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: next week's podcast, we will catchure them. Thanks to access
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: solutions elevating you and your business to.
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: A higher level.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks B listen live on air
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 42:10
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