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Fall in Love with A Cheap Old House. But Know This First. · Own It with Angie Hicks

• 0:00
  - There's no question.
• 0:00
  Old houses are filled with character.
• 0:02
  Keep away from five-minute trends.
• 0:05
  Keep true to the house.
• 0:06
  And then consider yourself a steward of it
• 0:08
  in a greater timeline.
• 0:10
  - My guests today are Elizabeth and Ethan Finkelstein,
• 0:13
  the couple behind "Cheap Old Houses."
• 0:16
  You may have seen 'em on HGTV,
• 0:18
  or if you've fallen down the rabbit hole
• 0:20
  of their Instagram feed,
• 0:22
  you know the dream they're selling:
• 0:24
  beautiful old historic homes with great bones
• 0:27
  at prices that actually make sense.
• 0:30
  Welcome back to "Own It."
• 0:31
  I'm your host, Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie.
• 0:35
  On this show, we talk about what it really takes
• 0:38
  to own your home without it owning you.
• 0:40
  Buying a cheap old house isn't just a fun side project.
• 0:44
  It's actually a big financial decision
• 0:46
  and a lifestyle decision.
• 0:48
  It can also be a structural decision too.
• 0:51
  Elizabeth and Ethan will walk us through
• 0:53
  how to assess one of these properties,
• 0:55
  how to finance it,
• 0:56
  and then also whether you should pick up
• 0:58
  that paintbrush yourself
• 0:59
  or whether you should leave it to a pro.
• 1:01
  What I really liked about this conversation
• 1:03
  was how they taught us to think differently
• 1:05
  about what home ownership can look like.
• 1:08
  (air popping)
• 1:09
  Elizabeth, Ethan, welcome to the show.
• 1:11
  I'm so excited to chat with you.
• 1:13
  I would love to just start out
• 1:15
  with how you all got started with "Cheap Old Houses."
• 1:18
  What was your inspiration,
• 1:20
  and what led you to, you know, to building cheap old houses?
• 1:24
  - It's kind of the only thing we can do.
• 1:26
  I know that sounds crazy.
• 1:27
  I do really believe
• 1:28
  that we're all put on this earth to do something,
• 1:30
  and I think we feel very much that it's in our blood,
• 1:33
  and I guess it took us a little while to find that thing
• 1:36
  although old houses have been in our lives forever,
• 1:39
  but, you know, for us it was really a combination
• 1:42
  of feeling like acquiring a house is a pipe dream
• 1:46
  for so many people,
• 1:48
  and loving old homes,
• 1:50
  having grown up in them, working with them,
• 1:52
  I have a master's degree in historic preservation,
• 1:54
  and just understanding
• 1:57
  that there is so much housing stock out there
• 1:59
  if you're willing to think outside the box.
• 2:01
  It was sort of our sort of house hack solution to a problem.
• 2:05
  - We were posting old houses for sale
• 2:07
  at all price points on social media
• 2:10
  a little over 10 years ago,
• 2:11
  maybe like 15 years ago now.
• 2:13
  - Oh, gosh.
• 2:14
  - Elizabeth was posting these houses,
• 2:16
  these cheap houses that she found
• 2:17
  on "Country Living Magazine,"
• 2:18
  and then we started our own blog on "CIRCA Old Houses,"
• 2:21
  and it was a fan favorite every single week,
• 2:25
  and it went viral every single week,
• 2:27
  these cheap old houses.
• 2:28
  And we were, at the same time,
• 2:29
  looking for a cheap old house for ourselves to fix up
• 2:33
  and not flip per se, but to live in.
• 2:35
  And it was sort of just this pipe dream.
• 2:37
  We had always wanted this for ourselves,
• 2:40
  and I think the moment that we knew we hit something
• 2:43
  was when "New York Magazine" wrote about us
• 2:45
  about four years after we posted these cheap old houses,
• 2:48
  and they wrote a four or five page essay
• 2:50
  on cheap old houses,"
• 2:52
  and this beautiful thing that people buying these things,
• 2:55
  and they said, "Would you change your life
• 2:56
  "for a cheap old house that you saw on the internet?"
• 2:59
  And that was the moment that hit us,
• 3:00
  where we were like, "Wow! Like people are doing this.
• 3:03
  We're not just posting this on the internet.
• 3:05
  People are home shopping on our Instagram feed.
• 3:08
  - So I know I might hit on a sore point,
• 3:11
  but I'm going to go right to the heart of this.
• 3:12
  So, Elizabeth, I know that you get really upset
• 3:16
  when people say that old houses are money pits.
• 3:20
  Tell me why.
• 3:21
  - (sighs) Angie, you know, we've talked about this before.
• 3:24
  (Ethan laughing)
• 3:25
  (all laughing)
• 3:26
  I know that you and I have had many a conversation
• 3:28
  about old houses being money pits.
• 3:30
  I would say this.
• 3:32
  All houses need maintenance.
• 3:34
  New houses need maintenance.
• 3:35
  Old houses need maintenance.
• 3:37
  I would rather work on a house
• 3:40
  that has materials that I can fix
• 3:42
  versus new materials: aluminum, vinyl, plastic,
• 3:46
  things that you can't repair
• 3:48
  and that have to go in a landfill.
• 3:49
  I think the notion that old houses require more
• 3:53
  has a lot of nuance and isn't necessarily true.
• 3:56
  I know plenty of new houses that are built poorly, terribly,
• 3:59
  went up very quickly with cheap materials
• 4:01
  that might not need a ton of maintenance now,
• 4:04
  but, in 10 years,
• 4:04
  I don't want to be the owner of that house.
• 4:06
  - Are there things, when you think about,
• 4:08
  you know, kind of, if you're thinking about
• 4:10
  going in and saying, "Hey, I want to own an old house,"
• 4:13
  like what do you need to assess in yourself
• 4:16
  whether you're going to be a good old house owner
• 4:19
  because I think some people find it intimidating
• 4:21
  quite honestly, right,
• 4:22
  because they're just like, "Oh, this is a project.
• 4:24
  "This is a labor of love."
• 4:26
  What makes me a good old house person?
• 4:29
  - I think you have to have the love.
• 4:31
  I think, just from a very superficial standpoint,
• 4:34
  I like to say, "Are you the kind of person that thinks,
• 4:36
  "'I want go to the beach every weekend?'
• 4:37
  "Or are you the kind of person that's like,
• 4:39
  "'Wow, I can't wait till the weekend hits.
• 4:40
  "'I've a lot of projects I want to work on.'"
• 4:42
  I think there are two kinds of people,
• 4:44
  and if you're in the right camp there,
• 4:47
  that's a starting point.
• 4:48
  - I think that that's the real thing
• 4:50
  is if you enjoy the projects
• 4:52
  and you enjoy working on your house,
• 4:53
  and, you know, if you have young kids, you're home anyway.
• 4:56
  It depends on your lifestyle
• 4:57
  and where you are in your life and your season of life,
• 5:00
  but if you are a beach person
• 5:02
  or, you know, someone who likes to fish,
• 5:04
  you know, hopefully you have a stream in your backyard
• 5:06
  or the beach outside.
• 5:08
  (Angie and Elizabeth laughing)
• 5:09
  (all laughing)
• 5:10
  - So, for someone who's listening
• 5:11
  who might be considering buying an older house,
• 5:14
  who doesn't know if it's worth investing in,
• 5:16
  what's the first thing you would tell them?
• 5:19
  - I would look at the structure itself.
• 5:21
  I think you have to make sure
• 5:22
  that the structure is in good condition.
• 5:24
  It's very easy to fall in love, speaking from experience.
• 5:28
  with all the pretty stuff.
• 5:29
  There's no question, old houses are filled with character.
• 5:33
  It's what makes them pop on Instagram.
• 5:35
  It's what makes us successful. People love it.
• 5:36
  It taps into sort of this nostalgia and beauty,
• 5:39
  and they love that.
• 5:40
  It's very easy to fall in love with that.
• 5:42
  And I think if you're looking at a house,
• 5:43
  you have to understand
• 5:44
  that if what you're buying can fit into your lifestyle,
• 5:48
  either you have to have enough money to fix it
• 5:50
  if it needs extreme repairs,
• 5:52
  or you have to be handy and crafty
• 5:53
  and have the time to be able to do that.
• 5:55
  And it also depends on what the house needs.
• 5:58
  So if the house has active water issues,
• 6:01
  you need to be able to seal them up.
• 6:02
  If the foundation requires, you know, heavy lifting,
• 6:07
  that's something that you can consider.
• 6:09
  If there are just aesthetic problems,
• 6:11
  and you have a lot of patience,
• 6:12
  and you can work on your house over time,
• 6:13
  I mean that's a great buy.
• 6:15
  I think also if you're buying,
• 6:17
  this is an, you know, age-old adage,
• 6:20
  but if you're buying the worst house on the best block,
• 6:23
  you know, that's going to go far for you.
• 6:24
  So there are a lot of factors to consider.
• 6:26
  I don't think this is a one-size-fits-all answer.
• 6:29
  - All houses are going to take some investment.
• 6:32
  I think looking at the cheap or affordable price
• 6:36
  or cheapest house on the block
• 6:38
  is always sort of a good nod to
• 6:42
  if you can get a little bit of value out of it.
• 6:43
  So, you know, we don't like to look at houses
• 6:46
  as investments, personally,
• 6:47
  but obviously that's a big, huge part of it
• 6:50
  in terms of home ownership and trying to acquire, you know,
• 6:54
  that wealth and have that house gain for you.
• 6:58
  So I think the bones matter a lot.
• 7:00
  I think, yeah, buying the worst house on the block
• 7:04
  can sometimes work
• 7:05
  as long as you're smart
• 7:06
  with the maintenance and the repairs.
• 7:09
  - I will say too, there is emotional investment.
• 7:12
  I think this is a place you're going to be in
• 7:14
  every day of your life,
• 7:16
  and you need to love it,
• 7:17
  and there are certainly times
• 7:18
  when we have worked on old houses
• 7:20
  where we're probably not going to get back
• 7:21
  what we put into it,
• 7:22
  but we love the thing we put in, and it's our house,
• 7:25
  and it's, if you think of houses just as, you know,
• 7:29
  sticks and stones and sort of just materials
• 7:31
  that are very transactional,
• 7:33
  you're going to have a different approach
• 7:34
  to what you think of an investment as being.
• 7:37
  - Sometimes it is hard to define
• 7:39
  where kind of your financial head stops
• 7:43
  and your emotional heart comes in and plays in this.
• 7:47
  When you're talking to people that are redoing houses,
• 7:49
  like how do they think about that?
• 7:51
  I mean, because it is honestly,
• 7:52
  it's like there's an element of how much enjoyment
• 7:55
  you get out of the home while you're living in it.
• 7:57
  - I think it's a few different factors.
• 8:00
  On the barometer scale,
• 8:02
  we know we're like 70% emotional and 30% financial focused.
• 8:06
  I think you have to know where-
• 8:08
  - Which one of us are you talking about?
• 8:09
  (all laughing)
• 8:11
  - Well, we both have, we both play our parts.
• 8:13
  - That's why we make a great team. (laughs)
• 8:15
  - And there there's a part to that 70%.
• 8:17
  Maybe I'm 50%, and Elizabeth is 20%,
• 8:19
  and, you know, or she's 50% emotional.
• 8:22
  (Elizabeth laughing)
• 8:23
  But, you know, I think you try to find that balance
• 8:25
  and find out where you are on the barometer,
• 8:27
  especially when you're buying that house.
• 8:30
  And then things also do change.
• 8:31
  You know, if you're in the house for 5, 10 years,
• 8:34
  a lot of stuff is going to change,
• 8:35
  and if you're deciding to stay,
• 8:37
  or if you're deciding to go,
• 8:39
  so I think the seasonality of just living there
• 8:41
  and focusing on kind of how you live there
• 8:45
  and if you're going to stick it for the long term.
• 8:47
  - You both have seen so many of these old houses.
• 8:50
  What are things, what are features you're like,
• 8:52
  "Hey, this one's got real potential because of X."
• 8:56
  - Yeah, I think anytime a house is in truly original state,
• 8:59
  I get very excited,
• 9:00
  and I know our audience does as well.
• 9:03
  You know, when the original features are in the house.
• 9:06
  If a house settles over time,
• 9:08
  its original windows settle with it.
• 9:10
  They're shaped like the house, the features that are in it.
• 9:13
  And they say, right,
• 9:14
  there are no right angles in old houses.
• 9:16
  But the things that were there in the beginning
• 9:20
  have shifted and formed with the house,
• 9:22
  so that nothing will fit better
• 9:24
  than the original features in a house.
• 9:26
  So we always try to encourage people,
• 9:28
  if you're buying a house, to keep those bones.
• 9:31
  Anything affixed to the house,
• 9:33
  save as much of that as you possibly can.
• 9:36
  And then your own personal stuff in the house
• 9:38
  that's movable, have fun with that; express yourself.
• 9:41
  If it doesn't go with the era of the house but you love it,
• 9:44
  you know, that's not as important to us,
• 9:46
  but you are not the only person
• 9:48
  that's going to live in that house,
• 9:49
  and, fortunately, the people before you living there
• 9:52
  didn't muck it up before you,
• 9:54
  and that's why you have this beautiful, you know, thing.
• 9:57
  So we say keep away from five-minute trends,
• 10:01
  keep true to the house,
• 10:02
  and then consider yourself a steward of it
• 10:05
  in a greater timeline.
• 10:06
  - Sometimes you can find these little gems
• 10:09
  with some modern LVL flooring over,
• 10:12
  and then you have the old wood floors underneath.
• 10:15
  So that's something easy.
• 10:16
  You can kind of peek in the corner.
• 10:17
  Or maybe you have carpets.
• 10:18
  So that's a really fun one to have,
• 10:20
  old original flooring in the house.
• 10:23
  I think old fireplaces, old mantles,
• 10:25
  obviously the newel posts when you walk in.
• 10:28
  Original windows, we like,
• 10:30
  but some people might want that more modern window,
• 10:33
  but I think a lot of these houses, you're coming in,
• 10:36
  and potentially there's hasn't been updating
• 10:39
  of plumbing, electrical, sometimes HVAC systems.
• 10:42
  So those are the core things.
• 10:43
  And insulation, you know.
• 10:45
  I think it depends on
• 10:48
  if these houses have had some of that updating
• 10:51
  and some of that love.
• 10:52
  So those are the things that, you know, aren't...
• 10:55
  Those are the financial, non-emotional side of things
• 10:59
  that if they have been updated, that's amazing.
• 11:01
  - I'm a big fan of fireplaces.
• 11:05
  Like I think those can be,
• 11:06
  like, those can make make a house.
• 11:08
  I have one that I like a lot in my house,
• 11:11
  and I'm just, like, if we change the house,
• 11:13
  I think I would reconfigure around it.
• 11:14
  - So in our fixer upper that we bought for $70,000,
• 11:18
  you know, I think most people design their beach home;
• 11:20
  we're designing our winter home
• 11:22
  where we have seven fireplaces in this place,
• 11:25
  and we are designing it around the fireplaces
• 11:28
  because we love that hygge sort of, you know,
• 11:32
  very warm, cozy.
• 11:34
  We live in the northeast; it's very cold.
• 11:37
  It was really cold this last year,
• 11:39
  and, you know, I think we like to plan around the fireplace.
• 11:43
  - Fireplaces are one of those things
• 11:45
  that in all the advancements
• 11:47
  and all the things we've done in homes,
• 11:49
  fireplaces are kind of the same as they've been, (laughs)
• 11:53
  you know, 300 years ago.
• 11:54
  It's just fire heating your house,
• 11:56
  and I think that people love how real that feels,
• 12:00
  and there is a reason why you and us,
• 12:03
  and we always want to kind of gather around that.
• 12:06
  - I feel like it kind of helps
• 12:08
  to replace the phone in your hand,
• 12:10
  and you're like, "Ah, I don't need that.
• 12:12
  "I can cozy up with a book and get back to real life."
• 12:14
  I think Gen Z is coming into this
• 12:16
  where they want real experiences.
• 12:19
  - Hey, we want to actually have something that we can feel.
• 12:22
  Right.
• 12:23
  - Right.
• 12:24
  - So, Ethan, you said you bought your house for $70,000,
• 12:26
  which, you know, that is like, "Wow!"
• 12:29
  to buy a house for $70,000,
• 12:31
  but walk us through what the budget looks like.
• 12:34
  When we're looking at a house that we see on your Instagram,
• 12:36
  and it's, you know, $70,000,
• 12:39
  how should I be thinking about that
• 12:40
  as far as like over the first couple of years
• 12:43
  that I'm owning it.
• 12:44
  Some of those $70,000 ones might be livable; some may not.
• 12:47
  You know, what's the path?
• 12:49
  - Well interestingly, Ethan,
• 12:51
  if you could talk to,
• 12:52
  we have a really good example of this
• 12:54
  because we just finished a house for Ethan's mom
• 12:57
  that we bought for $27,000,
• 12:59
  and we just wrapped that project,
• 13:02
  so we have all the numbers,
• 13:03
  and so I think that, for us too,
• 13:05
  that was an interesting test case
• 13:06
  'cause it was really full circle for us
• 13:08
  in talking about that.
• 13:09
  - So, for us, that house, you know,
• 13:13
  this was a soup to nuts house.
• 13:14
  This is a...
• 13:16
  It needed everything.
• 13:17
  So I have a great perfect budget.
• 13:19
  It's a 2,400 square foot house, three bedrooms.
• 13:24
  It's sort of your average home from the 1880s, 1890s.
• 13:29
  We bought it for $27,000,
• 13:31
  and we worked on it for about a year and a half,
• 13:35
  and the first phase for us
• 13:37
  was really structural, foundational, and systems.
• 13:41
  So we needed to get the basement up and running.
• 13:44
  We needed the floor joists to be up and running.
• 13:46
  Many of the floor joists on the first floor were not good.
• 13:49
  This is a very low, a high-level water,
• 13:52
  high water table area,
• 13:54
  so there's a lot of rot that kind of started to come up,
• 13:58
  but the old bones, the main sticks,
• 14:02
  were all in great working order.
• 14:05
  So we spent $50,000
• 14:06
  on all structural and leveling systems
• 14:11
  and then some exterior painting.
• 14:13
  So that was where we landed for some concrete work,
• 14:18
  basement-leveling work, and putting our basement joists in.
• 14:23
  Then the next 50, I would say, was in systems:
• 14:27
  plumbing, electrical, HVAC.
• 14:30
  So HVAC is about 15,20,
• 14:33
  and then you have electrical 10 to 15
• 14:38
  for whole house rewiring,
• 14:40
  and then plumbing about 10 to 15 as well.
• 14:43
  So just in terms of looking at those,
• 14:45
  and then we're talking drywall, trim, millwork, paint,
• 14:49
  and that's the last 50.
• 14:50
  So we spent $150,000 on one of these soup to nuts projects.
• 14:55
  I hope someone out there buys a house
• 14:58
  that's cheaper and has more things
• 15:00
  than we had in this home, (laughs)
• 15:02
  so they could be a lot more advantaged
• 15:06
  in terms of their budget.
• 15:07
  Obviously you can spend much more.
• 15:09
  Our $70,000 house is a personal pet project of ours.
• 15:12
  So we're doing a lot of things
• 15:14
  like these seven fireplaces
• 15:16
  that no one needs in their house,
• 15:17
  (Elizabeth laughs)
• 15:18
  but we are doing it.
• 15:19
  So it's a little bit of a specialized project that.
• 15:21
  - We plan to be there forever and ever and ever,
• 15:23
  so it's for sure something that we're investing.
• 15:27
  - You're doing it for your life,
• 15:28
  not for, yeah, yeah, not for others.
• 15:30
  - But what's amazing, I'll say,
• 15:32
  in terms of the financial component
• 15:34
  for my mom and her setup
• 15:37
  is that, you know, we got a construction loan
• 15:41
  to get this $150,000,
• 15:43
  and we're paying 6.5% on it,
• 15:45
  and that's equals to about $1,100 a month,
• 15:48
  and we got into the housing game with that house
• 15:51
  by paying it $27,000 and paying it off right away.
• 15:56
  So we didn't have a mortgage on the home per se,
• 15:58
  but we did have a mortgage on the construction,
• 16:00
  and so we're going to be stuck in this for five years
• 16:03
  paying this $1,100,
• 16:04
  but if we wanted to bring it to a 30-year mortgage,
• 16:07
  we could get the payments down to like $600-$700 a month
• 16:10
  which is wicked affordable for my mom,
• 16:13
  and just, I think, a solution for folks
• 16:16
  who are looking for affordable housing
• 16:18
  just all around the country.
• 16:19
  We have these houses that are really all around the country,
• 16:22
  and I think this is a really fun solution tool capability,
• 16:27
  but it's been a fun case study and test for us.
• 16:31
  - Do you feel like you have to be a DIYer
• 16:34
  to tackle an old house,
• 16:36
  or is this something
• 16:37
  that someone that is going to hire it out,
• 16:41
  or do you get your finances upside down
• 16:44
  if you don't have a knack for kind of hanging drywall
• 16:46
  and things like that yourself?
• 16:48
  - I think you need to prioritize.
• 16:50
  So I think you need to know what your skill level is,
• 16:52
  and you need to know what your bank account looks like,
• 16:54
  and parse it out.
• 16:55
  So I absolutely do not think you need to be a DIYer.
• 16:59
  and I would suggest not DIYing things
• 17:01
  that might burn your house down. (laughs)
• 17:03
  (Angie laughing)
• 17:04
  So I say that jokingly,
• 17:05
  but one of the,
• 17:06
  you know, - It's true.
• 17:07
  one of the things that often
• 17:08
  it's not the old house that's the problem.
• 17:10
  It's the thing that the guy did in 1984
• 17:13
  where he, you know, connected something wrong in a new part
• 17:16
  that messed up the old bones of the house.
• 17:18
  So I do think DIY can be as detrimental as it can be great,
• 17:23
  and it can be very great if you find yourself handy
• 17:26
  and you like doing it
• 17:27
  and you want to learn the things.
• 17:29
  We have people in our "Cheap Old Houses" community
• 17:31
  that have figured out how to DIY everything,
• 17:34
  and they do not come from contractor backgrounds.
• 17:36
  So I do think it's possible,
• 17:38
  but we don't feel any bias one way or another.
• 17:42
  I think it's specific to your case,
• 17:43
  and if you can afford to pay an expert,
• 17:45
  by all means pay that expert to come in and do it right.
• 17:48
  - I think, regardless, you're going to want be involved
• 17:51
  because you're going to want to do some paint,
• 17:53
  you might want to do some stripping,
• 17:54
  you might want to do something
• 17:56
  and find out where your place is in it,
• 17:59
  so I think just not shying away
• 18:02
  because there's going to be times
• 18:03
  where your purse strings are a little tight,
• 18:05
  and then you're going to want to spend more on something
• 18:06
  and get it moving fast 'cause you're busy.
• 18:08
  - My takeaway from this
• 18:09
  is be super honest with yourself about whether you can DIY.
• 18:14
  This is not a time to kind of, you know,
• 18:17
  kind of stretch your truth, right?
• 18:20
  If you're in over your head, hire a pro,
• 18:23
  and then also it's a great time to be curious.
• 18:26
  It's a great time to be curious about what they're doing.
• 18:28
  You should invest in time with that contractor you're hiring
• 18:31
  so that you can pick up some tidbits along the way.
• 18:35
  - Oh, yeah.
• 18:36
  Home ownership is such a journey,
• 18:37
  and it's like raising a kid, you know.
• 18:40
  You keep learning as you go.
• 18:42
  There's no manual per se. (laughs)
• 18:43
  - There is no manual. That's exactly right.
• 18:45
  I tell people that there is no manual
• 18:47
  for owning a house and maintaining it.
• 18:50
  I lived, 20 years ago, in a 1920s house.
• 18:53
  I would tell people, I was like,
• 18:55
  "That was my favorite house."
• 18:57
  But we ended up moving, you know, to the suburbs,
• 19:01
  to a newer house when I had my second child
• 19:05
  because we didn't have enough space.
• 19:08
  I don't know that I'm alone in this, right,
• 19:10
  that the old houses, you know, kind of their structure.
• 19:13
  So, you know, people like bigger bathrooms.
• 19:16
  People like bigger closets.
• 19:18
  So what's your take whether you invest in a larger bathroom
• 19:22
  or a larger closet in a house,
• 19:24
  or does that cross the line
• 19:26
  of staying true to the integrity of the house?
• 19:30
  - I do think it is okay to retrofit houses
• 19:34
  for basic modern needs.
• 19:38
  There are things that some old houses just don't have,
• 19:40
  but I think you can do it sensitively.
• 19:43
  I don't think that adding a closet to a house
• 19:45
  necessarily means completely destroying the character
• 19:48
  of the house.
• 19:49
  When you add that closet,
• 19:50
  look at the millwork in the house,
• 19:52
  look at the height of the other doors,
• 19:53
  try to align it, try to match it up.
• 19:56
  You know, if you're just removing a corner of a room,
• 19:59
  it's okay.
• 20:00
  Old houses, in many cases,
• 20:03
  have been added to over time,
• 20:05
  and those are sometimes the quirks of them
• 20:07
  that we love the most, right,
• 20:09
  like the pink 1920s bathroom in the 1850s house.
• 20:13
  It's really fun now 'cause it's a vintage
• 20:15
  even though it might not be original to the house.
• 20:17
  I do think that you can do it sensitively,
• 20:20
  and I don't think the conversation should ever be,
• 20:23
  "Don't do anything.
• 20:24
  "Don't change anything in your old house,"
• 20:25
  because that just creates, you know,
• 20:28
  a world in which people can't evolve.
• 20:30
  And I think people need to be educated
• 20:32
  and really think about how to retrofit these houses
• 20:34
  to modern living for sure.
• 20:36
  Another thing that you didn't mention
• 20:38
  that are very different
• 20:39
  than how we used to live are kitchens.
• 20:41
  In Victorian houses,
• 20:42
  the kitchen was considered dirty, off-limits.
• 20:45
  It was all the way in the back of the house.
• 20:47
  Now we have kitchens,
• 20:48
  that everybody hangs out in the kitchen.
• 20:50
  It's in the center of the home.
• 20:51
  So how do you think about that?
• 20:53
  And it doesn't necessarily mean
• 20:54
  that you have to rip out whatever room
• 20:56
  is in the center of the house of the house
• 20:58
  and put the kitchen there,
• 20:59
  but you can definitely think about ways
• 21:01
  to integrate the kitchen more into the home,
• 21:03
  and that's not a bad thing at all.
• 21:04
  The $70,000 house we own is from the late 1700s.
• 21:08
  It's quite old.
• 21:09
  And even back then,
• 21:10
  when they needed more space,
• 21:11
  they would just add on to the house.
• 21:13
  They didn't have a mentality that you keep the house frozen.
• 21:16
  They would add on.
• 21:16
  And so when we needed more space in that house,
• 21:19
  we did exactly what they would've done back then.
• 21:21
  So the idea of evolving a house is not wrong,
• 21:27
  and so, it's for sure okay to do it,
• 21:30
  but always do it with the character of the house in mind.
• 21:33
  - Yeah. That's great.
• 21:34
  So you've built a community
• 21:36
  of nearly 3 million people that are following you,
• 21:39
  checking out your cheap old houses that you're posting.
• 21:42
  What are people most excited about,
• 21:44
  and what are they looking for right now?
• 21:46
  - I think people always get obsessed
• 21:48
  over the unique properties,
• 21:50
  something that is on a lake or a mill or a bank.
• 21:55
  (Elizabeth laughing)
• 21:56
  These odd properties, these are always fan favorites,
• 21:59
  and they're always cheap over at "Cheap Old Houses."
• 22:02
  - It's always a good idea to spend beneath your means.
• 22:05
  But I think, too, in this AI world,
• 22:07
  we see people really digging deeper into authenticity,
• 22:12
  and that is something that these houses have.
• 22:14
  These houses remind you of a past time,
• 22:18
  or they remind you of, perhaps,
• 22:21
  the kitchen that your great-aunt had
• 22:23
  that you're, like, "Oh my gosh,
• 22:24
  "I've totally been in that kitchen," (laughs)
• 22:26
  And I think that there's something
• 22:28
  that is grounding about that for people.
• 22:31
  People love a good time capsule,
• 22:33
  the kind that looks like the lady left the house in 1947
• 22:36
  and just never came back, (laughs)
• 22:38
  and it's just,
• 22:39
  - Oh, yeah.
• 22:40
  - as it is.
• 22:41
  And I think the combination
• 22:42
  of these houses being cheap and being old
• 22:45
  kind of leads to an interesting study
• 22:49
  in that a lot of them are in places
• 22:52
  where the property values are lower.
• 22:54
  There might not be as much sort of disposable income
• 22:57
  for people to be updating their house constantly.
• 23:00
  So, because of that, they have the same kitchen
• 23:02
  that they had for 70 years,
• 23:03
  and so they're kind of a window into another time.
• 23:06
  In a world where you're scrolling,
• 23:08
  and you're constantly seeing things updating,
• 23:11
  and, you know, these are kind of like the befores,
• 23:12
  and there's something very soothing about that for people.
• 23:16
  - So I have a practical question for you.
• 23:18
  I've been on your Instagram feed.
• 23:19
  I've seen some houses.
• 23:21
  And I'm thinking about this.
• 23:22
  I'm like, just the practical process
• 23:24
  of going through buying a house like this,
• 23:26
  'cause it's probably not near my house today.
• 23:30
  How do I have the support that I need
• 23:32
  to kind of make that decision
• 23:34
  if I'm kind of jumping into an old house for the first time
• 23:38
  'cause sometimes you've got to make a decision quick
• 23:40
  on whether you're buying or not, you know,
• 23:41
  especially if it is priced at a really interesting price.
• 23:44
  What do you suggest to buyers who are venturing out?
• 23:48
  - I think we've heard all the stories
• 23:50
  of how folks have acquired these houses.
• 23:54
  Some folks actually get in their car,
• 23:57
  and they make an appointment with the agent.
• 23:59
  So the first thing is,
• 24:00
  you gotta contact the agent that we list on the post.
• 24:03
  So you're going to contact the agent directly.
• 24:06
  You might be able to have them do a little video tour,
• 24:09
  or they might be able to give you
• 24:10
  a little bit more information.
• 24:11
  So you might want to just kind of contact them,
• 24:13
  see what this house is about,
• 24:16
  get a little bit more information,
• 24:17
  see if it's a project you're worth taking on.
• 24:19
  And then you're going to really want to see it.
• 24:22
  Try to avoid taking on a project
• 24:25
  that is across the country from you
• 24:27
  unless you're going to move there.
• 24:28
  - Or you have family there that can work on it for you.
• 24:30
  I think you will begin to resent it.
• 24:32
  And that's a mistake we haven't made yet
• 24:35
  but we have nearly made,
• 24:37
  and I think we've talked ourselves out of it many times and-
• 24:39
  - But when we first bought our fixer upper,
• 24:42
  I was driving three hours away from the family,
• 24:46
  and I, you know, I was able to stay with family
• 24:50
  when I was working on the house initially,
• 24:53
  but it was like, "Oh, I want to also be home
• 24:55
  "or near the family."
• 24:57
  - So maybe the fixer upper isn't the thing
• 24:59
  that causes you to move across the country.
• 25:01
  Maybe you just need to expand your circle.
• 25:03
  So if you live in a metropolitan area,
• 25:05
  like what towns are within two hours of this area
• 25:09
  that, you know, might have some interesting finds.
• 25:11
  - Definitely.
• 25:12
  - Well and if you can live in the house
• 25:13
  while you're working on it,
• 25:14
  that will make your life easier too.
• 25:16
  If you can at least make one or two rooms livable
• 25:20
  and then be able to work on the rest of the house,
• 25:21
  that will change your situation.
• 25:23
  - I think another point of support
• 25:26
  is if the house has enough systems and services
• 25:29
  that you can get a mortgage.
• 25:32
  That's, you know, a lot of times,
• 25:33
  these cheap old houses are cash only,
• 25:36
  or, you know, you have to fix 'em up,
• 25:38
  and they say, "Bring your contractor."
• 25:40
  (Elizabeth laughing)
• 25:41
  And so I think if you have enough systems and services,
• 25:44
  that kind of gets you,
• 25:46
  even if it's $100,000
• 25:48
  or, you know, under $200,000,
• 25:50
  you're kind of getting that support
• 25:52
  to kind of work on the house while you're in it.
• 25:55
  - Yeah, let's touch on that one more time there, Ethan,
• 25:57
  'cause I think that's important.
• 25:58
  So to qualify for a mortgage,
• 26:00
  a house has to have certain criteria.
• 26:02
  - Right.
• 26:03
  So the house has to have electrical heating and cooling
• 26:08
  or potentially just heating
• 26:10
  if you're in the northeast anyway or in a colder climate,
• 26:13
  and you need a kitchen and a bathroom.
• 26:16
  So you need some basic systems to qualify for a mortgage,
• 26:20
  and if your fixer upper has those,
• 26:24
  you can get assistance from the bank,
• 26:25
  and that kind of gets you in the house
• 26:27
  so you can work on projects a little slower.
• 26:30
  - So you might, when you're debating, it's like,
• 26:31
  "Hey, do I want the $20,000 one,
• 26:33
  "that I'm going to have to pay cash for,
• 26:35
  "versus spend a little bit more
• 26:37
  "and find one that I could live in."
• 26:38
  You might opt to do that.
• 26:41
  - Right.
• 26:42
  - Which brings me back.
• 26:43
  You know, you all have said
• 26:43
  that we were thinking about the American Dream wrong,
• 26:46
  and I think you're actually pointing to something that,
• 26:48
  you know, it could be much more accessible, you know,
• 26:51
  when we think about kind of taking advantage
• 26:53
  of the cheap old housing stock
• 26:55
  that people have kind of left and forgotten.
• 26:57
  So tell me a little bit about that.
• 26:59
  - Well, there's just so much of it,
• 27:00
  and I do think it takes opening your mind
• 27:03
  to maybe different locations,
• 27:05
  but we found in the sort of post-COVID world we live in,
• 27:08
  where there is so much remote work happening,
• 27:13
  and, you know, we live in a very sort of rural area,
• 27:16
  and it has a very high percentage of entrepreneurs,
• 27:19
  so people doing all sorts of things:
• 27:21
  craftsmen, contractors.
• 27:23
  You know, they run their own businesses,
• 27:25
  and so you do have opportunity to move
• 27:26
  wherever, you know, you want to be.
• 27:29
  And I think, I just think our world,
• 27:31
  we're feeling a little bit kind of grossed out
• 27:34
  by, you know, you order something new,
• 27:36
  and it comes to you,
• 27:37
  and it's wrapped in so much styrofoam,
• 27:39
  and all of that is going into the landfill,
• 27:41
  and the thing you bought, you know,
• 27:43
  that took forever to get to you, isn't even well made,
• 27:46
  and I think we live in a very disposable world,
• 27:49
  and so a lot of people are becoming more and more anxious
• 27:52
  to sort of get something that's going to outlive you,
• 27:55
  that you can nurture,
• 27:56
  that feels worth investing in.
• 27:58
  I think the idea that instant gratification
• 28:01
  and you can get everything quickly,
• 28:02
  I think that's exhausting for people.
• 28:04
  I think people are overwhelmed.
• 28:07
  Yes, you can do things instantly,
• 28:08
  but do you have to do everything instantly all the time?
• 28:11
  I think the alternative lifestyle we're proposing,
• 28:15
  which is to slowly and methodically
• 28:18
  and with intention and with saving money,
• 28:22
  work on your house,
• 28:24
  is great permission to throw that philosophy out the window
• 28:28
  and say, "You know what?
• 28:29
  "I'm just going to take my time with this."
• 28:30
  I think people really want that right now.
• 28:33
  I think it's exhausting. (laughs)
• 28:35
  - I think for us, I think that for us,
• 28:38
  I would call us elder millennials.
• 28:41
  So we were maybe one of the first generations
• 28:44
  to really go through a digital evolution
• 28:47
  and to be burnt out by it,
• 28:49
  and then to want to retire
• 28:51
  by painting and doing things methodically and slow.
• 28:55
  I think, as the younger generations come up,
• 28:58
  and we are scrolling constantly
• 28:59
  and just constantly exhausted
• 29:01
  and being blasted in information in digital,
• 29:06
  we are going to want more human experiences,
• 29:09
  and I think that's what this allows us
• 29:11
  is the capability for slow methodical thinking
• 29:15
  and intentional living
• 29:16
  with things that are beautiful around us
• 29:19
  that we want to be surrounded by
• 29:21
  instead of just the scroll.
• 29:24
  - Great. That's great.
• 29:25
  Awesome. Well this has been a lot of fun.
• 29:27
  It was good to catch up.
• 29:28
  - Great to see you.
• 29:29
  - Thanks, Angie.
• 29:30
  - Here's what I'm taking away
• 29:32
  from my chat with Elizabeth and Ethan today.
• 29:34
  On the surface, this feels like a conversation
• 29:36
  about budgets and basements,
• 29:38
  but it's actually more than that.
• 29:40
  It's a new way to think about home.
• 29:42
  It's slow, it's intentional,
• 29:44
  it's something meant to outlast you.
• 29:46
  And for a lot of people right now,
• 29:48
  that feels less like a renovation project
• 29:50
  and more like a relief.
• 29:52
  But as it turns out,
• 29:53
  that philosophy has a business case too.
• 29:56
  Know where you land on the financial to emotional barometer
• 29:59
  and be honest about it.
• 30:01
  Folks that thrive on these projects enjoy the actual work,
• 30:04
  not just the result.
• 30:05
  So you need to clear your weekend calendar.
• 30:08
  The phrase that really stuck with me was actually
• 30:10
  "to consider yourself a steward in a greater timeline,
• 30:13
  "not an owner."
• 30:15
  That's a real mind shift,
• 30:16
  and it really makes you rethink how you define home.
• 30:21
  Thanks for watching "Own It,"
• 30:22
  and if you enjoyed today's episode,
• 30:24
  please subscribe and give us a review,
• 30:26
  and don't forget to share it with someone who could use it.
• 30:29
  No matter what house you live in, live in it
• 30:31
  like someone's going to be living in it after you.
• 30:34
  Skip the five-minute trends.
• 30:36
  Save the bones.
• 30:37
  I'll see you next time.
• 30:39
  This is Angie Hicks with "Own It."
• 30:41
  (air popping)