Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Survive to Thrive | a conversation with Jessica Turner

Transcript

Survive to Thrive | a conversation with Jessica Turner · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It means so much to have you choose to take our conversation along with you today.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide simple plans for life's most creative endeavors.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: The culture around us lulls us to mediocracy, half awake to our purpose, and more often than not, it seems as if everyone around us is celebrating half-heartedness.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we believe there is more to your story.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Awaken your heart with extraordinary tales of the ordinary.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Find encouragement as you discover your creative purpose and be empowered to create your unique masterpiece in life, family, and community.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you tuned in last week, you heard Katie Roselli and I mention Jessica Turner's newest book, Stretch Too Thin.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you may have been so relieved to know you aren't alone in this feeling.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Know that this feeling of stretch too thin is common, but I think by shifting our perspective about what our work actually is, our work time, and by establishing boundaries, we can find our life rhythm, and it can be more life-giving.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also learning to be more gracious with myself.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning that so much about work, life, and family is just simply about engaging, stepping out in faith, and beginning again even after I think I have failed.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm dubbing this month of hashtag nofailfebruary.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you've started strong in the new year and it hasn't or it didn't go quite as you imagined, then we have an opportunity to reframe and retrain our brain through our experience.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's more to chat about on that subject, but for now, Katie and I are gonna talk about stretch too thin before our conversation with Jessica Turner.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I let's talk about perspective because we throw around that word.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's a core piece of what Simply Wholehearted offers.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of bringing someone, you know, a good friend who knows you, but she isn't involved in any way, shape, or form of all the different things that you're in the process of saying yes and no to, and she brings in perspective.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how powerful can perspective be?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think we underestimate the power of perspective.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: We do, and then we also I think we think somebody needs to know everything, all the details, all the nuances and the details, and the um, and while yes, you and I would prefer to talk concrete stories or examples, sometimes it's as simple as just this outside perspective.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: She walked in and she could tell where I was stressed.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, you know, or she could see where I was carrying something.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, but is that yours to carry?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think part of it too, had was that she has been doing a lot of intentional work on her own of drawing very concrete boundaries and setting her intention every morning.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is what this day holds, and really beginning her day with gratitude, you know, before her feet ever even hit the floor.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for this day.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for all that it holds.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for what I'm gonna learn when it doesn't go the way I want.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And mind you, her husband's gone for a whole year.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, so there was something really profound to sit down with someone who honestly was really part of that time where I got back into writing and um and then he listened to her say, This is what I do, and I feel like I feel like I'm doing okay.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: He's been gone six months, we had this time back together, and you know, we we're in a good spot.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and she's like, is it easy?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, but she's like, I can do it a day at a time, but to see that sort of I don't need to know the ins and outs of her daily life, and she doesn't totally know the ins and outs of mine, but she knows who I am, she knows what I say I believe, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: And she's gonna hold me accountable to those things, and then she has the ability, which is what I think we give our friends, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: The opportunity to speak truth into that when there's a disconnect.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the permission.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Man, if you don't have some good friends like that, you need a life coach who will do those things.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need someone spiritual accountability, you know, physical accountability, emotional accountability.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the other thing too, I think, is sometimes we think we don't have that because we haven't allowed ourselves to have that with the people in our lives.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because it takes vulnerability.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's so key.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: It takes, you know, you may have a small group or a Bible study, but you can go, you can punch in and out of that group without ever getting below the surface.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: You probably won't if either one of us are in the room.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: But but I absolutely do know there's seasons in my life where I went to church, I was in a small group, I was checking all the boxes, but there was nobody that I was really vulnerable with.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I think we have to.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely have to do that because I think God uses the people in our lives to speak truth.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so perspective, and I uh really have liked, I've followed Jessica Turner for a while.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know you probably have longer than I have.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't even remember when I heard first about Fringe Hours, her first book.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I remember a podcast interview.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was way back to me the beginning of podcast listening.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know podcasts have been around for a while.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially, you know, since radio.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember hearing about the life she led and her concept of fringe hours.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was very intrigued.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think I got it from the library as soon as possible because that's what I was doing back then.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh yeah, this I'm I'm totally getting what this woman is saying, and this makes sense to me, helped frame some things differently.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really good perspective, and she's incredibly practical, and I I appreciate that about her a lot.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you've followed Jessica for a while and you were part of the launch team for her newest book.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear more from your perspective.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've read it, uh, you were part of the conversation that we're gonna be sharing here in a little bit.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of good stuff.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I really I appreciate her practical approach on a lot of things.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think I I probably read The Fringe Hours sometime in the first year it came out.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was in a season of I was working from home, um, had a pretty significant job.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: I had a kid, had was had another one on the way, and was like, how do I fit it all in?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: Not to mention my volunteer, you know, side things.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I really appreciated, especially as I stepped back from working full-time, her approach to taking care of ourselves, her approach to using our time wisely.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and I really appreciate her um data-driven writing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so when I saw that she had this book, Stretched Too Thin, coming out, um, it came out in the fall, I jumped on it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you know, I love to help writers and authors, and um, she had a pretty sizable launch team, so I think I was sort of hanging on the fringes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I mean, she had she had a lot of folks and it had a lot of buzz.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when it the harback or when the paper copy first came out, I was traveling for work in September and it was on every um shelf in both of the airports I went to really that's interesting.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: There, and it's it's how working moms can lose the guilt and thrive.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really practical approach to addressing that feeling of we've got so many things that we're juggling.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: How do you do that well?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think she speaks to she speaks to something that a lot of us wrestle with.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I know for me, my I really love the heart of it because I think there's so many.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've gotten to know so many active duty women who are married and have kids, and um, they may be married to another military member, and um they feel, I mean, I think stretch too thin is just obviously um they took the words right out of their mouth, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: So um I really appreciated that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was excited to see it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it's been wildly successful because of that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's been in target.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and for me, I really appreciate the opportunity to remember too that if I feel like that, there's probably an element, there's some truth that I've I've forgotten.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, there's just maybe even man, I can identify with that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: I want to do, I want to take a step back.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of like anytime I find myself saying should or never or always, there's probably some heart work to do.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Not homework, heartwork.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but um I think too, I think the stretch too thin is that okay, like I feel like this.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Here are some practical solutions which help me slow down as a mom that justify how I feel, so I don't feel like I'm crazy anymore.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: But also let's for me trying to work from home and build a side business as an author and volunteer and parent and real life, there's a lot of practical things that remind me that um what I say I believe needs to match what I'm living.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that God prepares us and he equips us, and some of what he uses to equip me is data-driven writing that's gonna take that idea of how do I do this better?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um and how do I thrive?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because if this is indeed the time and space in which I'm called, then he has everything I need.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as you talk about living what you believe, how does that concept of or what is it that you do besides the practical, the the elements that Jessica really spells out in her book that helps you live what you believe when you're feeling stretched too thin?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think some of it is looking at okay, I feel like the I feel stretched too thin because I'm I have a project that I'm working on that I'm a paid consultant on.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um I have responsibilities, I we're doing this, I have kids who are homesick.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um sometimes it's as simple as saying, well, what do I believe about God here right now?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um the moments where I feel like I absolutely can't do this anymore.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: I can't.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can't do this.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: This is too much, I'm gonna throw it all out.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, how many times have you heard me say that?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just quitting everything.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm quitting it all.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's all going out.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: But if I do that, that's ultimately rooted in I can't.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do I believe it's on me to do all the things?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Or do I believe that God is with me?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do I believe that God equips me?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do I believe that God daily bears my burdens?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and sometimes it literally has to get down into I am lonely.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, where's the Bible verse that addresses that?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Psalm 68 says God sets the lonely in families.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: My physical family, other than my husband and my kids, my immediate family's not anywhere near me.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Who's my family here?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's God who God gave me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm exhausted.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Where's the Bible verse for that?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so some of some of it is really um retraining my thoughts so that I can live out of that instead of living out of my emotions.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because my emotion says I'm stretched too thin and I'm done.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so my emotion says, quit everything.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm done.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Amy, good luck with your podcast.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for not scrapping me.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I need the practical things that are in Jessica's book that say how to take my mental load and how to do that better in my marriage, in parenting, and my work, um, because most all of us work.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: I loved her Pete her um, you know, 70% of American moms with kids under three work in some way, shape, or form.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's a lot of us.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just either or, there's a lot of and.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, for sure.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I love it because it's kind of continuing the conversation that we had at the end of December and then again last week, but just that idea of if I'm gonna live what I believe, which is that Christ is never gonna ask me, God is never gonna ask me to do more than I can handle, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that is one using the practices of just say no, January, saying no to the things that I think I should be doing, saying yes, giving our best yes to the most important things of our season.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then really believing that no matter what happens in my day and how my day flows, that if I am actively have given him my day and I'm actively working onto all the things that have been put before me, then what needs to get done gets done, which I don't do that well.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's some personalities.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: I my husband's at Anneagram 9.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: He gets done, you know, with the stuff and he feels or he gets the end of the day and he got done what he could, and for the most part, he can leave it and you know what's done is done, and tomorrow's another day.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that, and I have so much to learn.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do that well, but I think that's part of the the idea, not only because that is what Christ does offer is to go, hey, you did a great job, be proud of what you accomplished, enjoy, be fully present.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: All of those things that again going to the mental load aspect that you know Jessica talks about in her book.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's part of the process of going, okay, I'm confident that the Lord's gonna enable me to do everything that is required of me today, the most important things, and then what's done is done.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, one of the um one of my just say no Januaries was um the the saying no to the lie that says I always have to get it right the first time, every time.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And you could even say it's the lie that says you have to get it all done completely, the way you planned, exactly, every time.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I need that poster right here.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and the flip side is saying yes to grace, you know, saying yes to trying to missing the mark, but you got out there and celebrating anyway.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Which was epically learned when my instant pot failed, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Which is terrible.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: You confirmed every reason why I have not tried the Instapot, because that's exactly what I'm afraid of.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: It said burn.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: It might as well have said fail.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what did you do for dinner that night?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I tried.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You tried, that's right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we celebrate it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You learn from your mistakes, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Surely it won't happen again.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: Surely it will.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just need to pass on to the rest of us how not to make the same mistake.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: You SOS text your friends who use them all the time.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: And first they laugh at you.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then they laugh some more.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then eventually they say, read the instructions.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Who has time for that?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: Funny thing, I did that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, Jessica's book has had great success.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you uh listened last week, then you know to go ahead and buy the ebook on sale.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what current prices are um going on today, but it's available at Target, Amazon, all the book places.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And there's an audible.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: She reads it to you.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're an audible listener, yeah, that's brilliant.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: You like listening to it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the way that it's set up in terms of chapters and kind of like breaks it down into talking about marriage and work and parenting, you could take it a chapter at a time.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's a walk.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and not so surprising.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I was gonna say is not very surprisingly, many of our podcast friends they love the audible books because that's how we roll.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: We like to pair our activities.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like to call it multitasking anymore.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that'll be up in a conversation eventually, but I've learned that multitasking is a problem.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But pairing, this is strategic and this is fruitful, not multitasking.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, but we'll have to save that for another day.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: This has been great once again.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's so fun to have you two weeks in a row, ramping us up.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna get to listen to you and myself asking Jessica all sorts of questions.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks so much for giving us your lunch.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're so excited about your book and the message of stretch too thin.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I love recommending it because I know I'm like, listen, here's somebody who gets it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: She's living it, she's doing it.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I don't know, I don't I probably gave I got the sneak peek as part of your launch, and um it's like um you're gonna need this book, and if you don't buy it, I will.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna need this book.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a lot of several of my girlfriends who work full-time and they juggle all the things.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I love I loved telling folks who don't read books that that your message of the way you broke it down and made it real bite-size in the different chapter headings.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you can tell us a little bit about the genesis of the book and the structure and why um why you did it the way you did.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: So Stretch Too Thin is my second book.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_04: My first book was called The Fringe Ours Making Time for You, which was dedicated to women and the importance of self-care.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so I had signed a two-book deal and I had to decide what to do next.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so I thought, you know, what really would make sense would be for me to do like a six-month trial of slowing down.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I was terrible at it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_04: And there was no, I went to my publisher and I said, I was wrong.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_04: I am not the poster child for slowing down.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: This is not the season of life that I'm in.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so as I thought about what do I know and what resources are needed, I thought about my experience as a working mom.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: I work full-time in corporate America outside of the home and have a significant side hustle and three kids and a husband.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so I did a survey and surveyed 2,000 working moms and asked what their biggest pain points were.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_04: And their pain points were of no surprise to anyone, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: It was investing in their marriages, making time for themselves, making time to clean their homes and manage their homes and how to juggle that, right?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_04: It was feeling like they were good moms, you know, just things that we talk about and think about all the time.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's what Stretch Toothin is about.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: It is about each of those pain points, and every chapter goes through one of those struggles.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I interviewed dozens of working moms in addition to the survey.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so it really is a book that I think any working mom can see themselves in and say, okay, I'm not alone in this.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: Here's what I can do to maybe make things a little better.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: What surprised you the most?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you, you know, went about for one project and then you're like turn in a little bit to embrace this project as you talk, as you did the research, was there anything that surprised you were in your own journey as you were writing out your story?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there's a couple of different ways I could answer that.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: I think in terms of the data that I found, I was surprised that more women didn't say that they struggled with boundaries with their work.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: I felt like that was the one part of the survey that I didn't know was totally honest because I think if you ask most working moms, they would say that they're looking at email at night on their phones.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would argue that that is a lack of a boundary, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that we aren't being boundary.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: In separating time that we're investing in work with time, you know, at home or with our family.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would say that technology has made it more difficult in that that line is harder to draw.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: And women didn't really cite that as being a problem for the most part.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was something like a third of the respondents said that work boundaries were a challenge for them.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I felt like that number should have been higher.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe if I had put more definition around what that looks like, um, but I really wanted it to be kind of just people's perceptions.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: But then when I got that raw number, it didn't kind of ring true to me as opposed to what I know in my own life and what I know for other women that I've spoken to.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So what have you done to better help draw that boundary line?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you do to address that in the book?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_04: I work really hard to not be on my corporate work email at night.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that is something that's been an important boundary for me.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: I try to not have my phone tethered to my hand when I'm on the couch sitting with the kids, watching a show or doing that sort of thing, that it isn't, you know, at arm's length away, but that it's in another room that time from 5:30 to 8 o'clock.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_04: I try to not be on social media.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: Certainly there are exceptions to that.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: And certainly there are times where you'll see me on there.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes, though, it's an illusion because I've scheduled the content.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: So people think I'm on there, but I'm I'm actually not.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um but you know, I tried, I just try to be when I'm with my kids, I'm really with my kids.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the research shows that it is the quality of the time that we spend with our kids, not the quantity.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that was really life-giving research for me to know that even though I'm away from my kids 40 plus hours a week, that when I'm with them, I'm fully present.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: And like last night I got home from a work event and I was tired.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: And honestly, I had another writing project that was due for my lifestyle blog that I hadn't been able to finish in the morning before work.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so I came home intending to work some more.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: And my kids really wanted to play a game.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: And at first I said no, and then I was like, why am I saying no?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's 20 minutes, you know?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so I got down on the floor and played Yahtzee with everybody else and had a great time.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: And we had a great time together.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: And my husband did bedtime and I was able to dive into that project.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I was able to be really present with them.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think so often we think, oh, it's too much, or there's just a lot of time needed, but a lot of times it isn't a lot of time that's meaningful for our kids.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's just that we're really present when we're with them.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's interesting because you can speak to both sides, one, the corporate job, but then the side hustle, the work from home.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like sometimes I go, oh, it'd be so much easier if I was just clocking at nine to five to be fully present in the evening.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I find myself, you know, with the side hustle, several side hustles, you know, like squeezing it in those margins and finding that boundary line really tough to draw.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, I think you're right.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're onto something there that maybe not everyone is being honest because I think that is actually the struggle that I hear of, you know, putting away the phone or putting down the computer, stepping away to do something more meaningful and connect and be fully present instead of doing all those extra things.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I think it's interesting how you even depict that is that I'm squeezing in my side hustle, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: So instead of being boundary, let's talk about it from the flip side of this is the time that I'm going to work, even though I'm at home, this is my work time.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: You know, my husband works full time from home, and we had family who were like, well, why can't Matthew do that?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: Why can't Matthew do that?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, he's working, even though he's at home.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is a boundary time for him where he's getting that work done.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so I would just encourage you or other people who are listening that when you're working, even if you're working from home and it's maybe not a traditional office setting, that is your time to work.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so be fully present and engaged in that, so that then you can be fully present and engaged in something else when you're not working.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Hey Jessica, to tag on to that, talk to us about I've heard you explain it in other places, your definition of a working model.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's really, I think it's expansive and I think it's really helpful because I think too many folks think, oh, well, I don't work nine to five, I don't clock into corporate America.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I've heard you talk about this and I think it's really encouraging because as you look at the demographics for women who work, um, they're growing.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's fewer and fewer of what it's not an either-or quite as much as it used to be.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: So 70% of American moms with children under the age of 18 work.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: And that definition of work is that you're bringing in some sort of income.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I frankly find it exhausting when women say to me that they're stay-at-home moms, and then I find out that they sell pampered chef or oils or LulaRoe or whatever, or they have a blog that's bringing in an income.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you're not a stay-at-home mom.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: You are a work-at-home mom.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like you are a working mom, like you are somebody who's working.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: Your place of employment happens to be your home.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: And with that, affords a lot of great flexibility and benefits, but you are a working mom.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I do think that it's important to recognize that if you are bringing in an income, then you're a working mom.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, I've heard it also said, and I kind of have an eye roll with it.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_04: Well, all moms are working moms, you know, because parenting is a job.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, that is true.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: But in the context of what I'm talking about in my platform and the book starts too thin, it really is for women who are juggling something that involves bringing in an income in addition to other responsibilities.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think more moms who are stay-at-home moms want to figure out how to do it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: They may not have found their niche yet or what it is that they want to do, but they want to even grasp a vision of, okay, how can I do this stay-at-home mom thing, but also bring in some source source of income for my family.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be, you know, a win-win.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is a great your message is a great swag way of going, it can be done, it can happen.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be either or, and it doesn't have to be one thing or another.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: It could be the both and the process of just learning out how to really do boundaries.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Just right, it may be um, you know, I've read your work and followed your stuff since before fringe hours.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um can you talk a little bit because I think it speaks to what Amy is saying.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: The your message in the fringe hours about looking for the spaces in your life, um, to speak to the mom who goes, I feel stretched too thin.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: But this this writing that I'm doing or this blogging or this side hustle um is actually really life-giving.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I wonder if I could make money.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I feel like you've really lived that.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you've looked at the things where you're gonna spend your time and um and you've made a space, you've carved it out, but it's been very intentional.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so really that's maybe for me, having read both your books, um, that space that that goes from one to the other.
• 29:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_04: So with fringe hours, the the concept of fringe hours is really harnessing those pockets of time that often go underused or wasted altogether and doing something that you love in that time, something that fills you up, something that's a passion project for you.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's more than hobbies, but hobbies is certainly part of it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: Where it can become challenging is sometimes the things that we love become work.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so then if that thing becomes work, then we have to find time and recognize that that thing is now work and we need to do something else that's fulfilling and life-giving.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: So for instance, for me in my story, so I work full time, I leave every day at quarter to eight, I get home at about quarter to six every day.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I started this blog in 2006 that was really just to keep up with family and I was doing a lot of scrapbooking and I saw other professional scrapbookers blogging, and so I wanted to do that because I wanted to kind of get more into that space.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a hobby and it was fun.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Blogging is still fun to me, but it is very much a business and it is a significant amount of income for our family.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so if I'm getting up at 4:30 or five in the morning so that I can write on the blog and get work done for that, I need to be taking care of myself in a different way and finding different time to pour into myself.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because if every day I'm just getting up at five and I'm working on the blog from five to six thirty before I then go to work all day, I'm actually not doing a great job of taking care of myself.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it's important to recognize when something that you're passionate about, something that's a hobby, something that is then bringing an income that is now a work and you've got to do something else that's going to be life-giving to you.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_04: Now, certainly there are going to be seasons where you're going to work a lot and it is going to be harder.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: And that's okay as long as you recognize that that is a season and that you don't stay in that place.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_04: So for instance, I have been in a season of launching a book.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's a hugely busy time for my lifestyle of going into the holidays and working full time.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like I am working a lot of hours.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm recognizing that and then having to be extra intentional of making sure I'm getting enough sleep, making sure that when I'm with my kids that I'm present, you know, doing those things that are going to help me not feel stretched too thin and overwhelmed, even though I'm in a season of high productivity and work.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like for you to ask for help?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because in a season like you're talking about, it is tough.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we can do it alone.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you how do you know what to ask for help for?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what does it look like to ask in in a way that doesn't add more stress to you?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think sometimes that's the hard part is going, uh, I have to let go of control delegating.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't always work out the way we want it to.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm an Enneagram H.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_04: So it's also really hard for me to let go of things.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um little controlling there.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um everything is yes, it really does explain everything if you're familiar with Enneagram.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_04: So Enneagram each.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yes.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yes.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: I I joke that, you know, it's both Mother Teresa and Saddam Hussein.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, hopefully I'm just like somewhere in the middle, right?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's the new one.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, for me, uh the more I ask for help, the more I realize how much I need help and the more comfortable I become with asking for help.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm a big believer in do what only you can do and delegate the rest.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't always practice what I preach, but I think that in theory is really great.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, like some we pay to have a cleaning service come into our house twice a month just to kind of help bring things up to normal, which is a huge help, you know, and it's four women and they're there for two hours.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: So that's eight hours of their work, which is legitimately probably 12 of mine, and they do it better and faster, right?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then that frees me up to do the things that only I can do.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a worthwhile investment for our family.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a big believer in um using services like Amazon Prime, Target.com, Grove Collaborative to streamline all of those things to come to my house.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um something that I talk about a lot in the book is the concept of mental load.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: And mental load is the largely invisible job of noticing and remembering things.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it's, oh, I need to get light bulbs.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that child's shoes are too small, oh, we need to go to the doctor, like all of those things that that running list that women have in their heads.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that is a lot of stress and a lot of work.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: And the way we kind of get around that really is verbalizing it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you're married, talking to your spouse about it, saying, I really need help in this area.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: My husband says to me all the time, I am happy to help with whatever.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't know what you need help with.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know what I don't know.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's funny, I actually was talking to my dad this past weekend about how I was cleaning out the kids' closets, and he said, you know, that's not something that's in my memory at all.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like I didn't one time ever think about that you didn't have clothes that you had grown out of.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like your mother just did that, right?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so those types of things.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think it's just really important to say, hey, I need help with this and and also involve our kids in that and making sure that our kids are helping as well.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm a big believer in training our children young to do laundry, dishes, all the things.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that way they can be part of, you know, and we can pay them for it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be a great way for them to learn entrepreneurship and how to manage their money.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: We could tie all sorts of lessons with that.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, absolutely.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So do you keep a running list somewhere?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have like your, you know, do you write it in your planner?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is it on your phone?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you help keep that overwhelming you?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: I do keep a lot of it in my head.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: I am a big list person.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: I love um May Designs books.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: And so I always have one of those notebooks in my bag.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so I braindump a lot of to-do list type things, but not so much shopping lists.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we're big fans of Alexa, and so I'll tell Amazon, hey, order this for me and that sort of thing.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I I'm probably not as meticulous about those types of things as other people are.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm pretty good about keeping that running in my head.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_04: I highly recommend getting the um Echo Show.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_04: It is um so it's like a little tiny TV screen.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we have it in our kitchen, and like when you stream music, it shows all the lyrics.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I just feel like we are way more engaged with it because we can see a screen and it says, ask your Alexa this or do this, or did you see this news story?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so we have it sitting like right by our kitchen sink.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'll get the news headlines from it in the morning and use it, I think, in ways that I wouldn't have with just the little dot that they have.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: So interesting.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm a big fan of it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was definitely worth the like 200 bucks that it was.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, nice.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: My kids would be so thrilled.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for you, what you know, besides keeping Alexa around to help you keep the lists and all, what's your time management?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Choose to be present.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you write it down?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a do you have your days mapped out in a way that you know exactly when you should put your phone down and the computer down and be present with your kids?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: How does that look for you in the day-to-day?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think it's as formal as what you're describing.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I keep my phone and my purse, and when I get home, my purse hangs up in the dining room and it doesn't come with me, you know?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm able to be present that way because it just isn't right at my side.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_04: We're actually old school and still have a landline.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so we feel like there was a family emergency, those people have our landline.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Basically, the only people who have our landline are our immediate family and telemarketers.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: No one else has it.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so we feel like if there was an emergency, we would be able to be reached through that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, I'm really good about keeping an editorial calendar for my blog so I know when things are due.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I do have a virtual assistant, and so she she kind of helps with um some of the publishing and making sure I stay on task that way.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I've just got my running to-do list and my husband and I, we try once or twice a week to sit down.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: Again, not super formal, but just say, okay, what's coming up for the weekend?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_04: What are the things you need to get done, and work out that so that we can divide and conquer and make sure we both get the time that we need and um that we are able to get everything done that needs to get done.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's really important to recognize what the need to do's are versus the nice to-dos so that you don't get overwhelmed by a to-do list that's actually full of things that doesn't actually have to get done.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: The these silly things that feel urgent in the moment, but they aren't really important.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: How are you celebrating with this book baby number two?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is so much work.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: All the launch, all the writing, all the work that goes into it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: What are you guys doing to celebrate?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we had a book launch party that was really fun here in Nashville that a bunch of my colleagues came to and was at a great bookstore here in Nashville called Parnassa.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: So that was really exciting.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I think we're just celebrating that I'm not writing right now because it was an obscene amount of time that I was working.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I was literally working seven days a week with writing the book.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: So um it is really satisfying that it's out there.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're celebrating every time I receive a message from somebody who says that it has impacted them.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're celebrating whenever we get opportunities for me to go and share this message with groups of people and seeing some of that starting to happen.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just really expectant for the months to come of what this will look like.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think that stretch too thin is a message that has resonated with so many women because it's a conversation that we need to have and it's one that we haven't had a lot of, interestingly.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's so many parenting books out there, but I feel like for moms, they really deal with how to train our children or they talk about like breastfeeding.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there isn't much about like the logistics of actual working motherhood.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: And so um I'm excited to just be a part of the conversation and be speaking with women like you about this because I think it's something that we really need to talk about.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I found in a lot of the things that I write, my professionally I'm a speechwriter, so I do a lot of writing behind the scenes for other folks to say.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that um I've started saying as I plot out to speak is you know, to listen to what's not being said because it's really hard.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we don't talk about the things that are har that are heartbreaking.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's really scary to name the heartbreaking parts of life.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um more and more as I interact with moms who work in some way, shape, or form, but particularly uh military women, you know, women who wear the uniform and are working full-time, um, and then also juggling motherhood alongside it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's the one thing they they don't want to say is how hard that is because they're afraid of the repercussions of saying that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I love the spaces like your book or the places where people open that door and say, let's have this conversation about something that we might not otherwise say.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I think that vulnerability is so important and so needed.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it's an honor to be in this space right now.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: For you, since writing and all of that used to be a hobby, what does look like soul care for you?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: How does it that you spend time refueling um yourself as you continue to pour out in all the different directions?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: So reading has always been my favorite way to take care of myself, and we can equate the number of books I'm reading with basically how well I'm doing that.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so um that's a major.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that continues to be a good benchmark.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_04: I love a good hot bath with a good fiction book that is nirvana for me.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I also still love to craft, even though I haven't scrapbooked in a few years, which actually makes me desperately sad.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I keep saying, I've I said all year that I was going to pick it back up, and and this just wasn't the year for it.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um I prioritized reading over scrapbooking um when I had that time.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: But any sort of crafting, whether that's putting together things for a birthday party for my kids or making Halloween costumes, or I was just looking at taking an embroidery class this winter, those types of things with my hands and fabric and putting things together is really life-giving for me.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is it equally fun for you to do it with your kids, or does it have to be a solo project for you to find it fulfilling?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it has to be by myself.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's not it's fulfilling for me to do craft projects with my kids.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like I taught my little girl how to use my sewing machine this fall, and we had a great time with that, but that is not life-giving to me in the same way that it is creating by myself.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, totally.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, it requires a level of patience from me.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just think sometimes I watch some moms who do crafts with their kids and I think, oh, I wish I was more like that, but I'm not.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: It just requires a lot, and then it's like the mess, and then you know, the drama and the tears that might ensue.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always so much.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is too much.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now that you have this other book and you're still really in the process of sharing the message, and I think we've kind of clarified that there's a timeless element to it.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you have a desire to write again?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have other ideas percolating that you're like, oh, you know, I think this might be the next thing?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're like, uh, give me five years and then ask me the question.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if it's five years, but it's definitely a few more minutes.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: So um I certainly have thoughts of what could be next, but right now I I feel like I need to stay focused on where I'm called right now, which is the message of stretchy thin and not worrying about what the next thing is.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: My husband is a full-time author as well, and he writes children's books.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so he has a book coming out in February that'll be his third um children's book.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're thinking about that and that book launched right now.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: I just feel like we're in the season of launching things, and so I'm not there yet for what could be the next project for me.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of family expansion, yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Birthing lots of books here.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Jessica, thank you for your time.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it, and uh, we're excited to share the message.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know so many are gonna benefit from reading your words and just watching how you do it and you know greening for the message.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_05: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_05: It was a great joy.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you take a few steps after this conversation to practice being present by setting up good boundaries with work, electronics, and what Katie calls the should list.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And to also recognize the value of your work.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: All work which we do into the Lord, even cleaning toilets, is worth doing and doing well.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really believe when we do the hard work of evaluating what is important and we focus on those main things, the rest of the other stuff which demand our attention begin to fall in their proper place.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, next week on our Valentine's Day podcast, we have two lovely guests who happen to be sisters, and we are talking about love to find.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you are single or married, you will want to tune in because we are talking about purity, true love, and the questions the young women in their community are asking.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I couldn't help but ask about Bethany's love story, as she is an official newlywed.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: And also stay tuned on the socials as we're gonna be sharing some of our 21 ways to say I love you, both to your spouse and also a different one for your kids.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're really fun ways, and I encourage you to try them out this month.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, love month, right?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: February.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, we do really appreciate it when you share our episodes with your friends and family.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to invite them to tune in with you as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.