Latest / Apostle Lazarus Femi / IS POLITICS REALLY A DIRTY GAME TO BE AVOIDED

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IS POLITICS REALLY A DIRTY GAME TO BE AVOIDED · Apostle Lazarus Femi

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It's difficult for people who worked hard for their money
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: to get into certain political positions. First, the amount you
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: must have, the firms and everything. What do we say
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: about these structures are deliberately built locally to restrict those
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: who don't have corruption money to get into marrow.
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  Speaker 2: It's a case of asking why is a monopolist not
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  Speaker 2: being nice and reducing the price of his product?
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  Speaker 3: Doctor albi ib E Madame view process obia and ti
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  Speaker 3: of the they have monopolized power.
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  Speaker 2: What you have is an Africa well democracy no longer
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  Speaker 2: belongs to the people. A two time minister and from
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  Speaker 2: our World Bank Vice present.
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  Speaker 3: Assistant to the President of Nigeria on budget monitoring and
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  Speaker 3: price intelligence.
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  Speaker 2: That was when she was named Madame dull Process. What
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  Speaker 2: has happened is that the politicians have now held them
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  Speaker 2: to democracy india own definition of it as that which
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  Speaker 2: belongs to them. Yes, and so politicians now own Africa's
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  Speaker 2: democracy true to the utter disengagement or poor representation of
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  Speaker 2: the people of the people.
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  Speaker 3: Founder takes Politics and School of Politics, Policy and Governance, an.
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  Speaker 2: Advocate for transparency, good governance, humanitarian and an activist. The
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  Speaker 2: monopolist in an economic model is a prize giver. The
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  Speaker 2: monopolist does not care about quality, They don't care about
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  Speaker 2: the value. They don't worry about competition because of your
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  Speaker 2: position is well entrenched. So this is what Africa is
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  Speaker 2: dealing with. A lot of people haven't understood that the
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  Speaker 2: continent is in a very bad place. Africa's problem is
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  Speaker 2: not political party problem, it's political class problem. Yeah, so
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  Speaker 2: why should they person who gains from bad behavior has
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  Speaker 2: no consequence of punishment for it. Why should they stop?
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  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, if you're watching this now, that means you
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  Speaker 1: have here for intelligent conversations, and this is exactly where
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  Speaker 1: you want to be. We have conversations that will get
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: you at the edge of your seat, and this particular
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  Speaker 1: one is one you don't want to miss. I have
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  Speaker 1: a very honest request from you as we start this conversation,
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  Speaker 1: I like for you to like this broadcast. That helps
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: us to get this to as many people as possible.
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  Speaker 1: You know, we can work together getting intelligent conversations to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: people all over the world. And I like you to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: drop your comment, let us know you feel, let's know
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: how this has impacted you. And one thing you want
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to do also is to subscribe to this YouTube channel,
• 3:13
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• 3:18
  Speaker 1: podcasts or any other kind of video that can be
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: a blessing to you have. I look forward to having
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  Speaker 1: you again and again on this show. Thank you so much.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: This is the first time I'm going to say this
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  Speaker 1: on this podcast. And the privilege to bring you here
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  Speaker 1: today is that of your lifetime, not just about the
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  Speaker 1: positions to be held for all over the world, but
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  Speaker 1: the fact that the quality of the life you're living
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  Speaker 1: speaks more than any other thing. You defined to us,
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  Speaker 1: more than ever what it means to have Christians, those
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  Speaker 1: who carry these values of the Kingdom at the hem
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  Speaker 1: of affairs. And it's so inspiring all the things that
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  Speaker 1: you've done over the years, and I just want to
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  Speaker 1: say thank.
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  Speaker 4: You, fort and so not to have you here.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that Africans generally the young. We Africans
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  Speaker 1: now have the youngest population all over the world. And
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  Speaker 1: it's projected in the next couple of years one at
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  Speaker 1: the very five person use is going to be an
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  Speaker 1: African by a black person.
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  Speaker 4: Now there is anger in the continent starting the quality.
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  Speaker 1: Of leadership, but also if you come down to the
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  Speaker 1: area of it we look at the fact that the
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  Speaker 1: religion as it is, whether Christianity or Islam, has not
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  Speaker 1: been such that has really helped us in terms of
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  Speaker 1: national transformation. It seems to have been used to condition
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  Speaker 1: people in a certain way. And do you think Africans
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  Speaker 1: are expressing anger in the right way towards bad leadership
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  Speaker 1: that we're seen on the continent.
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  Speaker 2: So what you were saying about the continent's demography is
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  Speaker 2: quite true. In fact, what you should know is that
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  Speaker 2: it is not just about Africa becoming two point five
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  Speaker 2: billion people by twenty to fifty. It is the fact
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  Speaker 2: that by twenty fifty, eighty five percent of increases in
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  Speaker 2: global workforce will be African. Yes, now, that is so
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  Speaker 2: standordly statistically significant that he just completely changes everything about
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  Speaker 2: global global productivity. Eighty five percent of increases in global
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  Speaker 2: workforce to come from one continent. That's that's a demographic
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  Speaker 2: DeVault of one precedents.
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  Speaker 1: If I be permitted to interject that there are also
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  Speaker 1: structures setting place to make sure that the workforce in
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  Speaker 1: Africa is reduced to cheap label.
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  Speaker 2: Oh no, let's let's not. Let's not get there quite quickly,
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  Speaker 2: because they're you know, structures.
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  Speaker 4: Like when we as a continent have a label for structures.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's come to that when I have finished
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  Speaker 2: my on the on the map. On the first question
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  Speaker 2: raised one out when when you look at the demographics,
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  Speaker 2: because I want to go beyond the broad population to
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  Speaker 2: get to your question about and whether we're angry enough
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  Speaker 2: they how population average age population across the world is
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  Speaker 2: also very interesting. So in Europe it's forty four years
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  Speaker 2: average age population. In China and also America it's thirty
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  Speaker 2: nine point eight, thirty nine points two in Latin America
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  Speaker 2: is thirty three to thirty four years. In the Middle
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  Speaker 2: East is thirty five years in some subset of the
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  Speaker 2: Middle East, and in some other subset you have, like
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  Speaker 2: you know, something close enough to India, and the Indian
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  Speaker 2: one is twenty nine years average age population. Now Africa's
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  Speaker 2: average age population is eighteen point nine. So it's a
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  Speaker 2: vastly long continued For every one young person in your
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  Speaker 2: there are fifty old people. Yes, the reverse is the
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  Speaker 2: case in Africa, for every one old person there are
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  Speaker 2: fifty young people. So that kind of a population structure
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  Speaker 2: already defines many things. So when it comes to the
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  Speaker 2: matter of anger and how it is expressed, you would
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  Speaker 2: connected to what people are angry about. So they older
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  Speaker 2: generation that would be represented by that one person compared
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  Speaker 2: to the fifty young people. The older generation have been
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  Speaker 2: raised in a certain kind of way.
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  Speaker 5: Mm hm.
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  Speaker 2: They have been through some of the ones that are
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  Speaker 2: still in what we call the silent generation before that's
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  Speaker 2: the ones in the in the eighties and above, and
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  Speaker 2: then the ones that are called the baby boomers. Saw
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  Speaker 2: people like me are early set of the Baby Boomers
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  Speaker 2: in that generation went through. They saw the silent generation.
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  Speaker 2: They saw they saw slave trade, they saw they saw colonialism,
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  Speaker 2: they saw militarization and all of that. My generation saw
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  Speaker 2: only a bit of I'm not even sure we saw
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  Speaker 2: I'm not even show my generation and were the early
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  Speaker 2: ones in my generation, I, for example, they didn't see colonialism.
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  Speaker 2: I was born sixty three. We already had independence. Sixty
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  Speaker 2: three was the republic. You know, it matters because what
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  Speaker 2: then happened with that generation is that it essentially is
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  Speaker 2: that was the generation handed independent society, right politically independent society,
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  Speaker 2: which needed to then be transformed in the way that
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  Speaker 2: say Singapore Liquayyu was handed Singapore and then it needed
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  Speaker 2: to be transformed. Yes, So the failure to achieve that
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  Speaker 2: transformation is now the inheritance of these fifty out of
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  Speaker 2: you know, in the ratio to one, yes, right, So
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  Speaker 2: the fifty that have now been had a continent that
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  Speaker 2: could have been transformed economically but has not been transformed,
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  Speaker 2: is trying to figure out what they make of their inheritance.
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  Speaker 2: So they, however, are also products of a generation that
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  Speaker 2: has not quite operated with the tenets of accountability, and
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  Speaker 2: so that lack of acceptance of the culture of accountability
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  Speaker 2: in a modern state structure. In the African system, there
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  Speaker 2: was accountability, but in a modern state structure we lost
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  Speaker 2: those systems of accountability. And so that has meant that
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  Speaker 2: they've raised children in ways that don't support accountability. And
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  Speaker 2: because they have raised children that way, the younger generation
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  Speaker 2: are still they're vexed, they are angry, but they don't
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  Speaker 2: fully quite have the environment in which to express the
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  Speaker 2: anger properly and constructively. And then the ones who want
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  Speaker 2: to express the anger are not supported by the rest
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  Speaker 2: because the rest have been raised to be cowardly above
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  Speaker 2: about demanding accountability, and so their parents say to them,
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  Speaker 2: don't worry, everything will be fine, but everything won't be
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  Speaker 2: fine until something is done about everything. So for the
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  Speaker 2: ones who even try to break out of that mode
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  Speaker 2: and express anger, understanding how to to actually clarify what
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  Speaker 2: you're angry about? Understand it? So a young person today
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  Speaker 2: would would not quickly be analytical about why the situation
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  Speaker 2: they find themselves in the way it is they need
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  Speaker 2: to be. They can't. You can't. You can't say I'm angry.
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  Speaker 2: What are you angry about? I'm just angry. No, you
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  Speaker 2: can't just be angry. You can connect your anger to
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  Speaker 2: many things should be. Any African child who has not
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  Speaker 2: had the opportunity to go to a school that gave
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  Speaker 2: them am foundational skills in literacy, numbracy, and critical thinking,
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  Speaker 2: socio emotional skills should be angry. Why because the absence
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  Speaker 2: of those strong foundational skills will follow them through life.
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  Speaker 2: It will follow them. It doesn't matter what it can
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  Speaker 2: promote them into middle school, they go to university or whatever.
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  Speaker 2: It's still there, the foundation, the foundational gap is still there,
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  Speaker 2: and so they will not The research says it, their
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  Speaker 2: ending gap will still be wide compared to those who
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  Speaker 2: got foundationals strong foundational skills, So just getting the younger
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  Speaker 2: ones to be interested in those guys of analytical data,
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  Speaker 2: being able to connect data to your situation. I am
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  Speaker 2: struggling because there was a lack of that foundation that
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  Speaker 2: to enable me to be the kind of person who
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  Speaker 2: by the time I have done university, I have the
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  Speaker 2: kinds of skills that the university education should have given me,
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  Speaker 2: and so I can compare with my with my contemporaries
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  Speaker 2: in the world because of those skills, or the person
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  Speaker 2: says I had those skills, but the structure of the
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  Speaker 2: economy has not expanded sufficiently for me to get a job.
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  Speaker 2: And even when people say create something, there are many
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  Speaker 2: barriers that stand against me inhibiting anything that I have.
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  Speaker 2: I'm trying to create. So you have to be very
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  Speaker 2: good in articulating it. And the reason that you have
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  Speaker 2: to be good at articulating why you're angry is because
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  Speaker 2: you then know who you're going to face right to
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  Speaker 2: demand accountability for.
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  Speaker 5: Do you People are placing their own questions.
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  Speaker 2: I think that sometimes they actually are looking for the
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  Speaker 2: soft targets to take up. So for example, you know
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  Speaker 2: you can people can be angry and what they should
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  Speaker 2: be doing is going to the local government chairman and
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  Speaker 2: saying where's the budget, where's the budget for the local government?
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  Speaker 2: Why are the things that a local government should do
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  Speaker 2: not being done? But they could live the local government
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  Speaker 2: chairperson and his collapse and just look for the man
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  Speaker 2: who is running a little business in the community, and
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  Speaker 2: they go after him and say, you've been doing this,
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  Speaker 2: then you've been selling here for many years? What have
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  Speaker 2: you done for us? Excuse me? One man is trying
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  Speaker 2: to do beness in the community you live in. The
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  Speaker 2: local government chairman who is spending money that belongs to
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  Speaker 2: the public. You don't think that you can face them,
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  Speaker 2: so you look for itself. So it's always that there's
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  Speaker 2: this underlining coward dice that is inhibited the effectiveness of
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  Speaker 2: the anger. And so more and more I say to
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  Speaker 2: the younger generation of Africans, we have to be more analytical.
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  Speaker 2: If you come to the School of Politics, Policy and
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  Speaker 2: Governance s PPG that I'm using to train a new
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  Speaker 2: generation of Africans that we lead a public sphares. The
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  Speaker 2: first thing you learn is that in God we trust
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  Speaker 2: every other person. Everyone else mus bring data. Everyone tells
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  Speaker 2: me you're angry, give that backs your anger, because that
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  Speaker 2: data is going to ultimately be your pathway knowing how
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  Speaker 2: to solve.
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  Speaker 1: I mean on that subject of anger, I mean it's
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  Speaker 1: a difficult mix. How we have been able to mix
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  Speaker 1: anger and cowardice. Now you, for instance, you can be
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  Speaker 1: angry and yes, it's a very funny mix.
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  Speaker 2: The people who are angry and it's the world that true,
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  Speaker 2: what did the world do to them?
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  Speaker 1: It's an incredible mix because like we know, in Nigeria,
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  Speaker 1: we don't have history of our parents who fought for
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: independence compared to care where we had the mama who
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  Speaker 1: stood against the British and one, so we don't have
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  Speaker 1: a culture of seeing what it means to stand up
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  Speaker 1: to power. And then so it is forming in the
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  Speaker 1: young people now that because of that gap, there is
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  Speaker 1: now the call.
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  Speaker 4: Sort of trying to kick at the low angel fruit.
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  Speaker 2: It's it's it's the same thing. We're literally saying the
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  Speaker 2: same thing as I as I was saying to you, uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know before the program started. It's it's you ultimately
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  Speaker 2: would trace patterns of social norms and the inheritance of
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  Speaker 2: those norms two the beginning of time of any society. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so so where where we want to be cowards?
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  Speaker 5: No?
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  Speaker 2: I don't think we were born to be colds. I
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  Speaker 2: think that you know, what has happened over time is
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: a deliination between the what I call the Actually, it's
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  Speaker 2: not even my, my, my, my intellectual property. It belongs
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: to somebody called Peter, Peter, Peter, trying to remember Peter's
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  Speaker 2: last name. Now he's a professor. Algeria talked about the
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: public and private. You know, society in the sense of
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  Speaker 2: the public being when it consents the common good, and
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: then the private being, you know, when it consents the
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: immediate community. So, for example, you would find that people
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  Speaker 2: are quicker to ensuring that the money that they contribute
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: to the town union is not stolen. But if somebody
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  Speaker 2: steals the money at the local government, it doesn't mean anything, okay.
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  Speaker 2: So that byfocation can be part of why you find
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  Speaker 2: people when it has to do with all of us
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  Speaker 2: are being affected by this situation. We all need to
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  Speaker 2: come together and fight against it. Everyone is thinking, what
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  Speaker 2: if five people have to die in the process of
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: fighting for all of us. I don't want to be
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  Speaker 2: one of those five people. That's the thinking. So that
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  Speaker 2: mindset will make it not possible to easily mobilize to
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  Speaker 2: defend the public good. It's a mindset that just does
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  Speaker 2: not enable collective action, and you need that kind of
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  Speaker 2: collective action in order to create a new nun in society.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So when you compare what's going on with the Kenyans
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  Speaker 2: for a long time, also the young, you know, the
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  Speaker 2: generation of the Kenyans didn't immediately start fighting. It got
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  Speaker 2: to the point where they realized that this is beginning
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to look exactly like what the colonials did to us,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: except that in this case you have domestic colonialists. You know,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: because all of the people ruining governance in Africa as
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: as as Africans, and they are worse than what you know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: you could even imagine because they're doing it to their own.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: They're doing it to their own you know, the idea
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: of the colonialists conquering Africa, taking over Africa, these are
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  Speaker 2: this is a next tunnel in cushion. But when people
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  Speaker 2: who are flesh and blood of your of you are
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  Speaker 2: saying that they somehow deserve a better life than the
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  Speaker 2: rest of you, that is that is reprehensible and that
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  Speaker 2: is something that should make everybody say, no, you can't
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: do this. But because of this feeling of the artificial state.
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  Speaker 2: In other words, they look at people look at a
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: state and they say, I can't see myself in it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: They can't see themselves in it. So when you tell them,
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  Speaker 2: let's fight for the state, they say, why if anybody
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: would die fighting, shouldn't be me. They look at the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: way that they have always destroyed the possibility of collective action.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You see, all those mothers were uneven fathers in the
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: market square, in the market space of Nigeria, of in
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  Speaker 2: a republic of When they're in that market space, do
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  Speaker 2: you ever hear them fighting over religion, over ethnic group
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  Speaker 2: or whatever else. You don't hear them. They are there
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: for a mission. They're in the market space. They learn
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: how to cooperate, they learn how to collaborate, they learn
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: how to compete, but they are guided by the idea
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: that we just need to live peacefully in order to
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: get our business going. Right now, once the political people
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: get into the relationship, yes it changes, he hasn't that always?
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So because of that, the state is not enabling m collaboration,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: cooperation and healthy competition. What it is doing is it
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  Speaker 2: is dividing that up and even saying the state is
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: perhaps not completely right, I actually simply say, the political class,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: the politicians, they are praying on those primodial tendencies for
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: their own gain. And because they are doing that, when
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: you say to people, let us come and fight that
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  Speaker 2: they already have been told. Why are you going to
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: fight your own brother? Why are you going to fight
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  Speaker 2: your own sisters? Command this fellow is making it impossible
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  Speaker 2: for your children to have the prospects of good life. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: you don't like yourself about your generation coming after you.
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  Speaker 2: I mean you want a society that works. That's what
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  Speaker 2: you're looking for. So so so so that this idea
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  Speaker 2: of an Africa where the younger generation are so much
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  Speaker 2: more beginning to see that they can be as good
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  Speaker 2: as the rest of the world. So when you see
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: what technology has been able to do, yes, it's it's
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: it's leveling the playing field for those who at least
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: have some minimum set of skill skills to engage technology.
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  Speaker 2: And what that is doing is that it is helping
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  Speaker 2: more of the young people to either completely disconnect from
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  Speaker 2: the local so they've already migrated to the global and
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  Speaker 2: the standards of the global ah enabling them giving them
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: economic opportunities. So they say, I'm doing well. Forget these people,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: so they can be located here, but they are connected
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  Speaker 2: with the rest of the world, and so they say forget,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: just forget it. But the thing though, is it would
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: be a big mistake for this generation to think in
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  Speaker 2: the way that our generation and the ones before us thought,
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  Speaker 2: which is just do well. Once you do well, then
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: the country is doing well. And then look, you met.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: You judge whether a country people are doing well by
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: the number of them that are doing well, by the
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: number of them, by the number of them that are
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: doing well. The fact that we have some twenty percent
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of Africans who are living the quality of life of
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: contemporaries in any other forcial countries of the world does
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: not mean when Africa is doing well because we have
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: shiny lights in you know, that's when we have the lights,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: you know. But because we have you know, nice looking
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: estates like the one where we're speaking from today, does
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: not mean that that's the story. So a continent that's
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: that's estimated to be the one that would have modern
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: eighty percent of the remaining poor people in the world
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: by twenty thirty eighty percent cannot simply be celebrating that
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: if few of our children as stars and that we need, yes,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: our children to be stars.
• 29:06
  Speaker 5: And that leads me to the next question.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Do you think that the softing of Africa is deliberately
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: architected to be so by the Western world?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: You know? I like I like when people ask this
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: question because it gives me the opportunity to say, you
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: don't know what is doing. You know, you see, because
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: there is that anybody who says that that it doesn't exist.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm frequently fighting that, you know, I'm one
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: of the loudest Africans globally speaking about the collapse of
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: the existing multilateral order and how it is necessary that
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: we should design a new multilateral order that is inclusive
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and that is that is very mindful of the structural
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: imbalances that happened just by vsue of the history of
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: how the national states have been formed around the world,
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: especially on our continent. Right, So I am the the.
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: The the.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Guy what do you call it waving the card that
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: all the existing multilateral systems in institutions are not fit
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: for purpose because there have been radical changes in the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: in the world. For example, just sharing demographic data with
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: you have to be mindful of that. You know, the
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: U N is basically rendered redundant these days simply because
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: you have the the great power competition between China and
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: and the US, and you know, and yet we have
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: so many globe issues that need to be solved, whether
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: it's you know, issues of terrorism, of climate change, cybersecurity issues,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: the AI, what are we going to do in terms
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: of its governance, dealing with inequality, very very wide inequality,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: acute inequalities. So these are real issues that need to
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: be solved, and in the normal framework that we currently have,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: they're no longer being solved. So you need a new
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: multilateral So the architecture that you refer to is indeed
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: problematic and it's created certain levels of barriers for Africa.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: For example, when you look at the wto the World
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Strade Organization, there was a time that it served the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: purpose for the ones that created that were the architects
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: of it. So the conversation then was so much about
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: free trade. Today the same free trade is under mind
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: by some of the policies that the same countries that
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: that trumpeted free trade to Africa and gave US lectures
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: on free trade are pursuing for their own interest. So
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: it's a very it's a world that has really empowered
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: the strong much more than it has cared about what
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: happens with the weaker systems, with the weaker countries. However,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: that's not the full story. You see, Africa would be
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: in a stronger position to face off to the rest
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: of the world where we're running ourselves well. Our greatest
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: vulnerability is the poor governance of our own continent. Our
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: continent has not run itself well. So we're in a
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: situation now where you look at illicit flows that leave
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: the continent to go to illicit flows as in you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: corruption money, you know, corruption process and all kinds of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: things that flow out to the from the continent. In
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: the Atrillian Now, it is unbelievable that that would happen
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: to a continent that needs exactly such flows to invest
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: in its development, in its in building its human capital,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: in building its critical infrastructure from power to uh technology backbones,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: to to water systems, to you know, to roads and
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: to rails and pots, you know, the infrastructure that leads
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: to growth and all of the the investments that we
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: need in order to build the systems. You know, just
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you can't get the development until you have those systems
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: in place we need all the money, but that money
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: gets pillaged and lands in the in the countries that
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: don't need them. Okay, so who did that?
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: We are people who did that.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, A people did that? You can and which is
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: something that we do frequently because of my backgrounds a
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: co founder of Transparence International. We're talking about the fact
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that those countries have a duty to not allow money
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: that's been thretted out of Africa to land in their
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: countries and they sit on them, you know, so they
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: have a duty global duty, as we have been saying.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Then you think of the fact that all of this
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: is coming from you know, leadership that is not that
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: is not strategic, that is not thinking of tomorrow. So
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: where are those flows mostly coming from? Two thirds of
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: African countries have one form of minerals or the other
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: two tads. Now you look at minerals and you behave
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: as if it's going to be there forever. Of course
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: not Gabon is grandfather in oil because the reserves over
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: time they dry up, they dry up. So when you
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: have those kinds of leaders who are not thinking of
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: the intergenerational, you know, implications of decisions that are being
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: made today you can hold somebody else accountable for that.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: So we must know what factor is driving you know
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: what at any point in time. So you're right to
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: point out these global dimension of the problem of Africa's
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: under development. I mean, someone who wrote a book, I
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: think it was Walter Rodney who talked about how Europe
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that developed Africa, you know, and there are many other
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: scholars that have paid attention to that. So Claude Aki,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: you know, one of our own professor Aki, your generation
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: probably never know again, you know, but it was such
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: a brilliant political economy, you know, political scientists, you know,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: from the University of Pottacot. He had a lot of
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: this is around that. So there are structural impediments. But
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: guess what. We got independence the same time as Singapore,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: as Malaysia, as South Korea, and a lot of them
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: have gone through similar kinds of or even have even
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: a country like Indonesia Indonesia if you didn't put its
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: name as Indonesia and you just laid all these characteristics,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: you think you're talking of Nigeria, and yet they have
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: those kinds of issues too. But leadership, yes, just completely
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: decided we will do our meaning we will take responsibility
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: for that which we must do. Because while we're taking
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: responsibility for that which we must do, it empowers us
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: with the moral authority and the strength to confront the
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: external issues, that issues that are holding us back.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Now while we talk about I mean, that's a very
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: profound one. So now we've seen what they do, as
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Global said, now we look inward. The current structure we
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: have in Nigeria does not allow people. Really it's difficult
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: for people who work hard for their money to get
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: into certain political positions. First, the amount you must have,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: the firms and everything. What do we say about these
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: structures that deliberately viewed locally to restrict those who don't
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: have corruption money to get into power.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Well, it's it's the it's the case of asking why
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: would why is a monopolist not being nice? And when
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: you send the prize of his product? Mm hmmm mmm yeah, true, true,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: what incentive does a monopolist have to reduce the price
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: of his product? They have monopolized power. So what you
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: have is an Africa where democracy no longer belongs to
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: the people because the people, frankly, have not shown themselves
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: to appreciate and understand their duties and responsibilities in democracy. Okay,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: So what has happened is that the politicians have now
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: held them to democracy in their own definition of it,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: as that which belongs to them. And so politicians now
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: own Africa's democracy to the outer disengagement or poor representation
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: of the people of the people. Now they are taking
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: all the all the spoils of governance. They have her gemony,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: over all the apparadise of the state. When I say
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: state here, I'm in country, right, So they have these
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: and the people that's how we started the lack of
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: the collective engagement of the people in saying this is
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: not right. We collectively say that what you've done is
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: not right. We collectively use what the instruments of democracy
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: give to us to call you to orders for doing
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the wrong thing. That doesn't happen. So what do you
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: think they monopolist politicians assume? Not that they assume. What
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: do you think they play out? They play out the
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: conduct of the monopolist. Exactly wish is that there's no
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: incentive to do anything because there is no consequence for
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: not doing anything. The monopolist in an economic model is
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: a prize giver. He gives you the price he's not
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: a price taker. The monopolist does not care about quality
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: because whatever quality they give to you as a consum
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: that's what you ask you take it. They don't care
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: about the value. Whatever value they give, they don't worry
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: about competition because your position is well entrenched. So this
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: is what Africa is dealing with. A lot of people
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: haven't understood that the continent is in a very bad
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: place because if you don't correct the monopoly of the
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: politics of the continent by a few politicians that have
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: control through their political parties, and they might you might
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: think that these are different political parties. It doesn't. It doesn't.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Forget it. Africa's problem is not political party problem. It's
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: political class problem. Because they can wake up this morning
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: and be one party and by the next morning then
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: another party, and they carry the same min in set,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: so they when you look at the the fact of
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: the homogeneity of their political mindset, it means that there
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: is a political culture that rewards the behavior of the
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: monopolist politicians and never punishes the behavior. So why should
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: they person who gains from bad behavior has no consequence
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: of punishment for it? Why should they stop? Something must
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: stop them and The thing that must stop them is
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: very clear. You first, you have to say, this kind
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: of a mindset cannot be on forever. Otherwise we're all
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the continent is gone, right, So why how do we
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: get a new mindset? In terms of the political The
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: political culture has to change, and it can only change
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: when you build a different kind of political mindset. You're
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: building leaders who would put character at the center of
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: what they will be as politicians, who will think of
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: competence as something that they must have because they want
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: to produce results, unlike the ones who are just interested
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: in just accessing power in order to access the finance
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: right their money. They have to have the capacity to
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: solve complex problems, simple problems. They just can solve the
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: public problems. Right, So you build a new political class
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: by training people that you consider to be ready for
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that kind of training. Yes, you are right. You train them,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: and mass they entered, they stopped being your generation. Frankly
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: wants to repeat the same pattern by sort of saying
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: we don't care about politics. You, Well, my gen I
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: lent it because when I was in government, I hated politics.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: I hated politics so much I couldn't stand the idea
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: of me being associated with politics and the politicians. They
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: I entered government as a technocrat. I didn't enter government
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: as a politican, as someone who was in the political
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: party or anything. And I and even as by the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: time I was in government, I wasn't in the politics.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: The party didn't know me as a politician. Yeah, okay.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: So and then we leave government after the years of
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: reforms that we did. What do you think on themined
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: the reforms? Politics? True politics just took all the reforms
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: and tinted them as much as today when I when
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: when people say me, they said, Madam, due process, Ah,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I remember when you were doing due process in this country.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Due process is no longer due process. What happened to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: your process? It's politics. Politics killed a reform that the
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: world celebrated. Another reform that I that I that I
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: was responsible for with my team is there. The extractive
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: industry is Transparency Initiative. It's called NATI Nigeria extractive. That's
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: the I mean. We got such global global acolades for
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: being in the first country that's signed on to not
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: just design and implement, adopt, design and implement the principles
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: of transparency in the oil and gas sector and in
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: the mineral sector we got it was part of the
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: reason for that reduction for Nigeria NiTi. We in our
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: own case we went further and underpendage with law. So
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: you have the Neiti Act that brought into existence the
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: agency that is known as NAITI. I don't even know
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: whether anybody knows that it exists, but once upon a time, yeah,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: it's one of the indicators. You know, to get that reduction,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you don't just go and negotiate. There is a set
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: of reforms that you must do. So those reforms were
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: things that were important for us, and so they were known.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: There were known reforms where a day today the politics
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: has just who luted them out? So that I then
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: look back and I say, it was stupid, of course
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: to have ignored the politics. You can be as technocratic
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: as you want for the politics will come for that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: work that you have, okay to come for it. And
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: so it was after I had observed what politics is
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: doing to the to the countries, to the to my
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: own country and all the other countries in my advantage
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: position as a VP at the World Bank, that I
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: came to the realization that wait a minute, it was
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: people like me that Plato was speaking to He said
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: that those who think that politics is beneath them will
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: be ruled by their inferiors. He was. It was a
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: moment of revelation. I had sent those sports before, but
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't ever pay attention to it until he came home.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I saw what politics and politics look at the time
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: we're living government in two thousand and seven. Nobody could
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: have told me that some of the things that have
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: gone wrong it happened because we thought we had to
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: put or that I don't wanted to send as if
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: we had greeted an eldor. I do know there was
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: still so much we didn't You know, we did modest work,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: but all you needed is modest work to build and
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: modest to build on and that would happen. I was
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: succeeded by some minister of education that when they asked,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: what is your your mission in education, he said, it's
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: still reform as reforms, oh politics politics. So when your
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: generation looks at the continent and you say I'm angry,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: well you're not asking the right questions that lead to
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: how to address the anger. You would all updicate responsibility
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: in the way that we did. Thinking we're doing the
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: technical things. Leave the politics. Let them be doing their politics.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Who were you leaving the politics to? You see the
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: difference between us and what Liquy you did? Was that
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: liaqu why you took his technical people and turned them
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: to techno politicians. Yeah?
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: True, that's what it is. Do you think democracy can
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: be Africa?
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: We haven't practiced democracy.
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: Is it designed to work?
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: It can work because it has worked in other places.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: We haven't practiced democracy properly so called. What we have
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: done is what I explained to you. Look, post independence,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: after the countries got their democracies and their independence, what
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: do you think happened? Quarrel? Some fis, yes, across a
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: number of the countries of the continent, before you knew
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: it ethnic rivalry, before you knew it this you know,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: some group captured the power, helped them do it and
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: basically did where we started from, which is take it
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: to themselves. They basically are mustered and held them to
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: the power. And you know, we've still got some people
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: who were you know, presidents when their country got independents,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: or people who you know fought some desports to cover
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and became desports themselves. Would you call those types of situations.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Practicing democracy no Africa, you know, tends to pretend that, yeah,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: you know, democracy is not. Democracy is a simple thing.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Democracy is the worst form of government until you've tried
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: the others. Did you get that good? This is Yes,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: it's the worst form of government. Wait until you try
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: all the others, you know, because I mean, we grew up,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: we grew up on the military rule. And I'm sorry,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, so so so so so so. Part of
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: what's going on is you've got societies that I won't
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: actually understood and practiced the ethos of democracy, the principles,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: the values of democracy. Because the idea of democracy is
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: that it enables accountability. It's the corner stone of it's
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: it's it is. It is uncored on the rule of law,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: the rule of law, not the rule, not the whims,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: not the cap process of man. Rule of law. So
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: there there's there are rules of the game, so there's
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: a clarity as to what should happen. It is uncored
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: on constitutionalism. Yes, and and and and and that and
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: that no man, no woman is above the law. Democracy
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: properly practiced would mean that you have that political freedom
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: that leads to economic freedom. Okay, economic freedom when you
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: when you have democracy that is well practiced based on
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: the rule of law, it enables you have institutional mechanisms
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: that that would guide not just the government but the
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: people those in business. So there is something about it.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: It then leads to this sense of the freedom to idea,
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: to to to think of ideas, and to know that
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: the rule of law protects your ideas and would reward
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: your ideas. So on the basis of that, you would
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: say that people would flourish. Right, people will flourish. So
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: in a society where bad behavior is rewarded and good
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: behavior is punished, what do you think is the is
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: the issue? The issue is that there are no rules
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: of law. Okay, there are no rules to that that
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: ensure that the it is the right thing that is rewarded.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's there's a discussion. The Bible will say
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: there's an error. So we have been erroneous in practicing democracy,
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and then we cry that democracy is not working in
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: in if you want to know where that democracy works,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: look for families that are held. You will say that
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: democracy works.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: Ah, real family, it's.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Healthy families, families that are working. Well. I'm not just
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: talking about physical health. I'm saying, yeah, when you look
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: at the families, because father is there accomuntable, yes, allowing
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: the children to you know, to know that good behavior
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: gets rewarded, bad behavior gets punished. Everybody is striving because
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: there are rules that guide. There's a mission statement for
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: the family people are you know? And then you look
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: at the other one where it's a house of confusion,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you would know that. Yeah. And then when you look
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: at that and you say, you're practicing democracy, but it's
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: not working. It's not working well.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: I used to feel that it was designed.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: So for instance, I personally feel that we got independence
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: at the time that we're not already structured.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: No, I think we should not even have been colonized,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: not to talk of being told, you know, I shouldn't
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: be thinking that we got independence, but also.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Of the opinion that we put our colonial masters and
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: are currently dere side by side. Some younger people say
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: seem to believe that they prefer the colonial mass.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: They shouldn't think that way. They should they should correct
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: what's wrong at home, because it's a defeatist mindset. My goodness,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: how can you possibly say your your your your you
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: were you're better rough with some external explain came to
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: exploit you, to extract out of you. That's like, you know,
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: that's it annoys me when I when I see this
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: lend helplessness. Are you crying your you're doing victimhood? What
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: kind of victimhood is that? Oh? You know the the
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: other people that made me a victim are better than
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: this new people? What's that? Gosh? That is that's despicable?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It is, you know. So what you should know is
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: that you should say to yourself, there is absolutely no reason.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: That was the that was the basinis of Liquys leadership.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: He said, Lique you was a man of dignity and
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: you know, such a honorable fellow. He just said, have
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: there the British thing that they're superior to have? Have
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: to have colonized us? So we're going to prove to them.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Well he did, because canna is something. Britain's incompact capita
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: is half that of Singapore today. Singapore is that eighty five?
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: This on something? Wow, Britain is that forty two thousand? Wo?
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: He proved it. So would you tell the person from
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Singapore that they would have been better off with Britain?
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: They worked themselves out of it. They worked themselves out
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: of it. They had reason to prove that this was
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: an anomaly. Have we done the same? Have we done
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: the same? It? Look, let's really accept that the values
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: discussion hmm, that entered into the way that public leadership
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: is perceived was the undoing of our continent. People basically said,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: if it has to do with the public interest, dear
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: interest would override it and became a non got normalized
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: as And because where where that nexos between colonial rule
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: and the post independence Africa where I can agree that
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: there is some causation and correlation is that in the
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: modern modern I normally do this in the modern post
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: independent state that Africa now had the institutions of accountability
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: that we heard before Africa was carved up and then
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: colonized were left behind. They didn't get integrated into the
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: alien one that either the French or the or the
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: British or the which are the country the portug you know,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: the Portugues, you know, had had left behind. Okay, so
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: not bring in bridging that left the gap. That's why
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: you have this bifocation. That's why you can go to
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: a Budja still and you would say be a hero
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: to your community. But you can't come to the community
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: and still the god of the other family members, they
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: would come, all of them would join together to finish it. True,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: so that there there's an issue, okay. So so that
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: gap created the the almost what I call the off
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: farming of the public space wos. It would take a
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: generation of and I love I, I love me the genesis.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: I love them. I just really want them to have
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: the understanding that they can't design. Solving Africa's problem is
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: a design issue. They can. They can go back to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: the table and with all the kinds of data that
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: I'm asking them to be interested in, they can design
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: a part way. There's even much more opportunity to transform
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: the continent today than there was during my time. Knowledge
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: is that it's cheapest today than any other time.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: Have you have you ever had anything giving up on
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: your own generation?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I so you know me to be a fighter. I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: don't like to think of helplessness. I don't like to
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: think of you know, I just don't like to think
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: of helplessness. So even if I'm just the one person
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: walking that I'm just going to keep working, you know,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: So I don't I don't like the what what takes
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: away nature from me? Yeah? If I thought of my
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: own generation all the time, I would be too sad.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: I'll be too sad because I feel like sometimes we
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: even the refusal to acknowledge our failures is very dangerous.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: It is too dangerous, you know. You see, you see,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I've sometimes been in a place and somebody of my
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: generation starts telling the story with such with such relish
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: of how you know we were we used to be
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: just one person in one room in the university, or
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: two people in one room, and you're telling little children
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: who went to hostels that were now like, but words,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: what are you doing telling that kind of a story?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Why are you doing that? You know? And you're not
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: telling it with remarks, you know, because yes, you're not
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: even telling it. It's almost like a total lack of
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: awareness that how can you be how can you be present?
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: The past and the present is so bad and this
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: present is something that we all accountable for as a generation.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: So even though I've done my beat in this society,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I still feel uncomfortable for the fact that we don't
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: have the best of a country, of a continental hand
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: over to the generations after us. But even at that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't say. I didn't so because it's it's on
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: the one hand, this is how I feel about my generation,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: But on the other hand, I said to the younger generation,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: for you to be cripple by this poor performance of
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: the older generation, just blaming and blaming, it's not going
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: to be hereful. So it gets to the point where
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: you say, Okay, this is what it is.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: What should we do?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: What shall we do now? And that's why I'm saying
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: that there there is actually a real opportunity for this
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: generation to learn all of the reasons that we failed. Okay,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: for example, you know, our generation always operate at the
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: scarcity mindset, and I'm saying it show up in your
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: own generation. It's this person or that person. M why
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: can't you have one hundred people? You know, you guys,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: you put all over your stars that you like, I
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: am fan something something, I am fun that other person,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: and you just really go for each other. Why shouldn't
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: we have ten thousands of you being stars? I don't know,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: it's a scarcity mentality. This was always the problem. People
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: just fighting to be that one person. Why should there
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: be one person? Why? You know? So that has to
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: be abandoned. It has to be abandoned. You have to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: have an abundant mindset knowing that you can succeed. He
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: can succeed, she can success, she can succeed. All of
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: us can succeed. What does it take for all of
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: us to succeed? That mindset has to be one of
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: your design paths. Okay, Your design path has to be
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: the one that says, what is the thing that has
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: most harmed our society? It is selfishness of those who
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: should govern the public the common good. That selfishness, it
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: should not be seen amongst us. Wow, we cannot, you know,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: love ourselves to the detriment of society. That's a design part.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: When you're sitting to say how do we walk away
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: from this? That will be given? Those are the kinds
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: of things that should matter to you, because you then
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say, oh, do you know see what they have
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: told you know? And then you say, well, if we
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: can just insult all of them, you know, that's the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't go anywhere, doesn't go anywhere. You know,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: two people are handled same situation, and one works the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: part of a lip by you. The other works the
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: part of our old generation. Wow, Wow, it's your tone again.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: Now which one are you going to work? And I'm
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: saying to you that today's world has leveled some things
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: in my generation. For you to be global, you'd send
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: pempal letters from magazines you see, you know, people put
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: their picture say I'm looking for friends in Africa and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: in Melsia and all of that that you would you
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: would write a pamper letter to the address that they
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: have sent. And then of course we had a night
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: post that may keep your letter that you wrote for
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: months before the person that you write into in Europe
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: or Asia gets it, God knows. And then you probably
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: would send a hundred of those kinds of letters and
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: maybe just two in some cases, maybe just one in
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: some cases. Nobody would respond today every one of who's
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: got a global footprint? Am I lie? You have friends
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: that you have never it's online, real time, it's instantaneous, right,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: your global You have a global footprint. It's an opportunity
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: that we didn't have. It converts to something, It converts
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: to something. Think of the kind of knowledge I mean,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: like today's skills are not defined in the way that
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: we define it. I recently was cannot speaker to the
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: vice chancellors from Commonwealth universities New Zealand, Australia cannot in
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: the UK, African countries and the Asian countries of course,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: you know Commonwealth. And I said to them, I said
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: to them, I said, I hope you realize that those
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: young people in your classrooms would rather not be there
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: mm hmm everywhere everywhere you know. But trust me to
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: say it as it is right. I said, they would
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: better not be there. A lot of what they're learning
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: is not what you're teaching them. Wow, I said, today's
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: university has designed is not fit for purpose for the
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: gen Z generation. I said, they've already designed their own university.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: There melod doing this to fulfill some righteousness. And what
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: I can tell you is it that in a few
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: years from now, they're going to abandon the whole thing. Yes,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: universe as correctly constituted. You will argue, it will happen.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: I think Nigerians are still sleeping on on what AI
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: is doing to the world. I think they're sleeping. So
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: your generation is going to be a generation that is
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: about these skills, and these skills are not about sitting
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: for a four year programmed to get it certificate Now
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: that's a that's an incredible opportunity. Or you have to
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: understand it. You have to understand it, you have to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: link in to it, you have to master it. But
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: above all, what your generation doesn't seem to realize is
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: that with AI being able to do the most complex
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: of things or humanity, that what the world will be
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: needed is human beings. Well, the fact that you know
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: calculus will not give you your edge anymore, because A
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: I can do, who needs who needs you doing that?
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: What the world is going to need in the In
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: the we are at a civilizational inflection point. It's yes,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: this particular civilization is going out. It's going out. It's
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: similar to Hunter Gadhra gave way to agricultural revolution changed
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: the world, and then agricultural revolution gave way to industrial revolution.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: Steam engine changed the world radically. So we are at
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: an civilizational inflection point. And what that essentially means is
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: that you have to play with a different set of rules.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: If you have to, you have to completely just win
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: yourselves of the past paradigm of thought, your thought process,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: your way that you see the world, and now be
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: prepared for what is this new context requiring of me
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: and I am here to just tell you all that
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: that it is not going to is it is. It
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: is going to require your technical skills, but more important
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: to give you a competitive edge, it's going to be
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: your value skill set.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: Values.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what that's always worried about. Now when we gather,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're worried about now when we
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: gather in board meetings that that I am part of,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: and we're having those discussions when we're talking about the
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: value skill sets, because that's the only way we can
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: protect ourselves against the dangers that I will unleash on
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: the world. Huge, dangerous, but the opportunities are incredible and
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: it could be what changes our continent if we had
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: good governance. It's the absence of I am never because
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: this apps sense of good governance could mean that true,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: the level of gap between Africa and the rest of
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: the world, which will be so much I mean like
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: literally it could be. It could resemble what Ellen Musk
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: is already imagining. It carries the ones that you would
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: like to carry to Mars and then leave the rest
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: to be discussion of.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: They to see countries like Luanda who seen care they
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: have structures in their country where they are preparing the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: youth working with them. In terms of air revolution, I've
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: not seen that in Ideria at the moment.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: I think the government, you know, Bosuti Journey is doing
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: something around ai, you know, engaging young people. Oh, yes,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: that's something I don't I don't know the quite the
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: name of it, the name of that one thousand something,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: and I think I have sometimes seen conversations around it.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: But but you know what what Nigeria could be doing
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: right now is just unbelievable. Yeah, it could be unbelievable
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: because you've got to mobilize the entire society. Africa needs
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: to be mobilizing Africans for a post. You know, this
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: whole particular structure. That's the way. And the interesting thing
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: is that education is key for it. But you know,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: the level of education that's most important for the for
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: this revolution is what I started with. Foundational learning. The
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: foundational learning, literacy, numeroucy, social emotional skills, the power of
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: critical thinking. Once you have this foundation, leave the child.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: University education is not going to be in the normal
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: or you know, I'm going to study sociology for four years.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to you know, I hope you know that
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: medicine is going to be completely We've said it.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: We said it.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Medicine. Medical doctors have to prepare themselves, just accountants, lawyers.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's unbelievable. A number of the number of
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: the the financial companies, the banks, and the investment companies
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: in the US already letting go of their retained the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: retainers that they used to have. They don't need them.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: It's a complete transformation of economic structure, you know. And
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: without good governance. That's why if there's anything that the
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: young Africans should be fighting for with all their lives,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: is to just retire all the all the bad ways
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: of politics. That's the most important. It cannot be difficult.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: It cannot be difficult if they understand how to work
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: as it collected it, you know, they and the thing
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: that that is important is to say, what's what's the vision?
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: The vision is to have good governance. Right if studies
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: have shown you that without good governance, you cannot get
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: economic groot. Without economic groot, you cannot reduce poverty without
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: economic grout, you cannot get prosperity without economic growth, you
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: cannot get to development. What are you going to do?
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: You're going to face that particular thing they tell you
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: is your biggest barrier. Once you face that then and
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: you you tackle it, then it's easier to begin to
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: do the things that I don't. You know, one of
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 2: the things that I said to people is nobody is
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: so China coming three decades ago.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: True, very true.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Nobody is so China coming. They just mustard they the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: whole template of how economies grow. Yes, it's the easiest
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: thing to do. But if the toughest thing to do
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: is to create the environment for that mastery, that's what happened, right,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: So creating the environment is you see a lot of
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: the bunch of politicians you have in Nigeria, you think
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: they are they are not thinking beyond Some of them
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: are celebrating the world going on in the Middle East. Hey,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: and because it's bringing more money from oil. True, that's
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: what they're saying.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 5: True, true, true.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: They are saying, Hey, finally our budget will be which budget? Budget?
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: That leads to what what are the outcomes from twenty
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: twenty four twenty twenty five budget? Have they told you?
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: Have they given you the indicators of what the budget
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four twenty twenty five achieved? Now they're saying, Ah,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: the budget they may have budgeted on whatever amount a barrel,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: now it's probably like eighty percent more more than the
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: price at which they budgeted, or maybe maybe would be conservative.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Let's just even say forty percent. That's significant, right. So
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: for the for a lot of them, they're not thinking,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: how do we translate this buffer into more human capital
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: that is fit for purpose, that can be the business
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: of economic rood. How do we translated to critical infrastructure.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: It's a conversion thing. You have money coming from capital
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: that easily that easily dwindles because whether it's oil, like
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: I was telling you, whether it's oil, where it's gas.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: There is a cell by date. Okay, Now, what countries
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: do is to make sure that they plan for the
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: cell by date. By all the money that comes, they
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: spend it well, they put some of it away. So
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: Norway is a typical story of that. Norway has the
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: largest sovereign wealth fund in the world trillion plus something something.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: You know, I've lost kind of what it is now,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: but Norways you know, sovereing well fund. But also whatever
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: they were budgeting, they were making sure that they efficient
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: they are effectively invested in the right place. Priorities to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: give them the society in which people could think of
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: ideas and flourishing their ideas. Because ultimately it is your
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: human capital that drives your growth. The principle these lot
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: of infrastructure and institutions and regulatory systems are bureaucratic, you know,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: context that supports them. All of those ones will happen
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: by the agency of the human being. So if you
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: don't train those human beings, even though even if you
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: have power, but the end the people are not trained,
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: they can't keep the power one and they so human
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: capital is so important. But my point back again to
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: the AI world that we're already in in in fact
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: we've long been in it, you know, is to say
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: every child that goes to school grade one, grade two,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: grade three, by the time they are the age of ten,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: they must have those critical skills of literacy, numercy, social, emotional. Yeah. Yes,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: so that with those foundational skills they can navigate the world.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: That's what that's what research is showing us. And today
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: it's not so nine out of everything don't have it. Wow,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: that's a disaster. In an AI world. Nine out of
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: every ten African children that you see they go to school,
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: but they are not learning. Schooling is not learning.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: Mm hmm. Schooling is not learning?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: What true schooling is not learning? And the way to
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: solve it where we know, you know, structured pedagogy. The
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: method of teaching matters. It's not just about the quality
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: of the teacher, but the method of teaching. Teaching at
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: the right level. Have making sure that every child has
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: access to the kind of textbook that they need. Some
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: of the children doing multilingual teaching, we know evidence of
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: what works. That's why, you know, when I saw the
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: data in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, I saw that data
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: of the study on foundational learning, like what mm hm,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: not that it didn't exist when you know, when I
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: was Minister of Education, I saw that children were not
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: really you know, the level of learning. You know, we're
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: losing more children to being you know, being promoted from
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: one class to the other without having that strong foundation.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: So part of what we began to we had the
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: textbook policy that would address it, so that access to
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: textbook you know, instructional and then instructional materials for the teachers.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: So the kind of training one of the lessons one
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: of the things that we launched when I was Minister
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: of Education was focused on the teachers. So we had
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: uh I think we had step you know, uh the
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: we we also had the program that was addressing in
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: service training for teachers so that you could just improve
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: their method of teaching. We had the teacher upgrade program.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: Stop where what were we doing with this? I met
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: a Ministry of Education, where an education sector where twenty
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: something years before I got there, we had outlawed teacher
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: grid to certificate being all that teachers had in order
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: to teach in primary and secondary school. Because people were
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: holding teacher grade to certificate that they acquired like you know,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: and we're in the classroom teaching and there had not
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: been any kind of upgrade of that. Wow. And so
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: when I when I saw that, you know, stay had
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: a significant number of the teachers. So we designed that
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: program and it was basically it's an upgrade program. So
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: all the colleges of education in the country, all the
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: departments of educating, you know, the faculties of education in
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: the country. The National Teacher Institute in Carduna designed an
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: upgrade program to take people to n c A level.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: See yes, that is National Certificates for Education. That is
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: that is that became the minimum qualificationation for you to
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: be in the classroom.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 5: That that was done when you were.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: When I was, yes, most of my reforms in education,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: I wasn't one of those that were trying to build
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: kinds of classrooms that were not going to be of
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: any use except opportunity for corruption. A lot of those
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: people telling you we built classrooms, so it was a corruption.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: Content ah was a corruption. The things that improve learnin
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: for children. It's not the classroom that you're building.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's now you wish you had done
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 5: then that you didn't do them.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: No, my minute. The only thing that I wish had
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: happened was that Nigerians would have been strong enough to say,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: you don't unravel reforms. A true I am wont for
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: taking accountability, but if you every time that people read
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: through the reforms in education for the actually for the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: young older generation that followed the reforms, every time they're
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: seeing they actually hold me. They cry on my shoulder
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: and say, THI what a miss. Yes, so I don't.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: I don't you know because it was incisive when I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: was Minister of Minerals, because I do. I'm a policy.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: I just I live for policies, you know. So I
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: enjoy policy issues because policies are really looking at the
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: problem and analytically figuring out how to sty you know.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: So in minerals, in the mineral sector, the process of
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: identifying what we needed to do to transform the sector
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: to the level of the country with I benchmarked our
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: reform too. At that time it was Chile. Chile had
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: taken its copper industry as a mining sector, as a
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: mining country and done some important reforms. And then I
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: also then had to read every piece of relevant literature
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: on mining jurisdic and what are the critical success factors
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: for those ones that succeeded. And by doing that and
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: using all the indicators of success and measures that were taken,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: and then putting it side by side the ministry the
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: sector that I had inherited as a minister, I could
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: see clearly what reforms we needed to do and the
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: number of reforms we needed to do for me at
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: the Ministry of Minerals were tight. Hundred and seven reforms tasks. Yes,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: And the President had said to me, you know, I
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: need you to reform the sector in six months. Of course,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: I didn't let him get away with it. I said,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: all these your ministers before you asked me to go
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: to solid minerals. How many months did you give them
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: to reform theirs? I mean, I had to find that right.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: So but I said, he said, I know you will,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: I know you will. Yes, So I went to that
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: sector and one hundred and seven tasks, including the new
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: the Act that under pins the sector. Yes, that was
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: my work with my team, the new Minerals Act, because
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: we needed to have a Minerals Act that was not
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: destroying this sector. The Minerals Act that I had, that
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: I inherited, had Minister Shall, Minister Shall, Minister Shall in
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: a sector that is a private sector sector in the
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: other parts of the world, so you give the minister
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: all the powers. That's not a sector that is that
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: is what do you call it? That is ready. It
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: is a sector that is concentrated power and that discretionary
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: power is it is a turn off for global capital.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: So we had to work on a new legislation that
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: on the stood the context of global capital and how
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: decision making concerning that sector needed to be based on
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: the rule of law. So we changed that legislation. That's
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: why in that legislation you don't define minister's authority.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: In just a few sections because they're not given for expectations.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: Because, for example, the the idea that I would sit
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: in the office and all of you will come and
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: line up in my in my office waiting for to
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: have a meeting with me, so I will give you license.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: What is that? That is social? That is social lesslie
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: annoying theater. So I was like, no, no, no, sorry,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: that's not what my contemporary in other parts of the
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: world that doing your time mm hmm with your time. Yeah,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: I supposed to be taking strategy. I'm supposed to be
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: ambition in the sector, thinking strategy, articulating policy, and I'm
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: going to sit and be haggling license with you people. No,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: so what do you do? We designed what is known
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: as a mining cadastral system. You don't have to come
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: anywhere near my office. There is a technology that enables
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: you go. You ready, you go. First of all, we
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: had to do air bond your physical survey before I
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: became minister, before the administration of President of Passenger. The
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: last airbone at the airborne survey, and it was very limited,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: was done by the British Wow. So we didn't know
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: where we had occurrences of minerals. So so when I
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: when I was minister, we didn't air bond your physical
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: comprehensive and your physical service. And know, the Geological Survey
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Agency used to be a department of the Ministry. Now
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: it's not global practice, so we have to give it
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: its autonomy. We did the legislation that enabled what you
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: call today NGSA Nigerian Geological Survey Agency. It was during
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: my time. So they the data from that air bund
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: your physical survey. You have to translate it that data.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: When you go you say, I'm interested in exploring the
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: existence of uh you know colony in mineral I will
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: tell you the number that that we eventually found. And
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: and then you go to the Geological Survey they said
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: to you, oh, well, this is the data disk that
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: we have on it. You purchase your data disc. Then
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: you go to what replaced that power of the Minister
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: known as the Mining Cadastral Office. The Mining Cadastral Office
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: is a system that you go to you say, these
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: are the coordinates of where this data is showing I
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: would be able to find literer. Wow. You enter the
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: coordinates and it pops up information and says on the exploration,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: meaning somebody has a hold on it to explore on it,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: and it tells you what date that cold will be
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: over for them to reapply. Okay. Now he could also
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: say to you it is available. So what do you do?
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: You just register your interests and it recordeds to the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: level of the second in which you did. Now, when
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: you've done that, and your assistant comes and he's also interested,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: and he enters the exactly this and coordinate, the system
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: tells him it's already under consideration. No consideration now all right.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: And then ultimately what you're require to do is to
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: now put in place all the documentation that is required.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: You take it back into this system. The system tells
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: you that you are recognized as one that has an
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: exploration license and it is called first come, first set.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: It's a technology then so so so so so basically,
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: what the Mining Cadastral Office exists to do is to
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: remove discretion. It cannot be a like Fermi, let me
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: give you license now, okay. So it brought that level
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: of transparency to the final sect of that is this
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: is I'm talking about legislation, all right. So so that
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: I diverted because we're talking education, and I wanted to
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: show you the difference. So in minerals one or seven
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: tasks that includ you did these legislations and building those
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: kuyds of agencies that are necessary to und uppear. But
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: you know what happened. I did the same thing. I
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: benchmarked Nigeria against. I used Singapore as a benchmark contribution
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: for education. By the time I did the same kind
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: of process that I did in solid miners, we needed
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: to do four hundred and six reforms four six, yes,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: one O seven for thirty six. Why they have three
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: levels of education? That that is three phases of education.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: You are at three level. You have many multiple issues
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: in education, you have multi layered matters on governance of education.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: All of those things required changes, all right. So when
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: you now take that kind of a sector and you
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: have analytically outlined what these issues are, what these problems are,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: and you've started solving for them as a country, and
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: suddenly a bunch of people come along and they say, ah,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: that's the question, these ideas, that's where the politics enter
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: and who pays the children of the poor. That's the
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: saddest part for me. People can do whatever they like
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: but it doubly hurts me when the impact of that
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: action is on those that are poor and followable, because
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: the part way for social and economic mobility is that education.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: So I was saying to you that at that time
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: in education, we already saw what was going on in
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: the disconnect between school and learning. The public school system
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: was failing the children of the poor because they were
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: the ones that were in those weak public schools where
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: quality of teacher as well as method of teaching, access
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: to instructional materials, access to textbooks, being able to evaluate
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: and monitor performance in order to measure the data and
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: then learn from it didn't exist. And one of my
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: reforms was precisely on that. So I had seen that
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: there was a problem. We were solving that problem. So
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: all that needed to happen was to continue to solve it,
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: not to stop it and begin to look for opportunities
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: to award contracts. I used to say to my team
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: in education, are you now Ministry of Works? Why are
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: you so interested in the things that consent contracts, you know,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: purchasing and buying when there are policy directions that make
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: a difference. Right now, imagine Nigeria, Kenya, Senegal, Bakiner in
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: this same port doing that. That's how come whereas the
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: rest of the world the average is six out of
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: every ten children not achieving. Our own continent is nine
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: out of every ten children.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: That's huge.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: India came out as eight out of every ten children.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: The Prime Minister was offended by it. You know what
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: he did, He saw that data went to work. Wow,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: in the last four or five years, they have improved
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: learning outcomes of their children by twenty percent by twenty
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: What does this say to you, I'm back to the
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: young generation. You don't see something that offense and then
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: you say I'm angry and then you walk away. It's
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: like a man who looks at himself in the mirror,
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: like the Bible says right. No, he didn't work away.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: He simply said, not under my watch, it will not happen.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: I was a guest of the Indian government together with
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: colleagues within the global system for improving this situation. And
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: it was simple. A leader said, not under my watch
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: will children go to school and not learn.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 5: So for them nights about five everything.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: No, you know, no, No, they've improved the learning outcome
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: by by twenty percent, meaning that children who when failing that,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: now twenty percent in terms of improvement in their learning outcomes.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: So over time, it would just be that the system
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: enables a child that comes through it to be in
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: grade one, grade two Great Tree. By the age of ten,
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: they are ready with all these skills that are foundational
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: for future learning. It's a predictor of life long skills.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: So we're joking and in an AI world, this is
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: the this is it. So imagine an I world when
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: nine out of all these are children don't have this minimum.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: So it's not even a case of they didn't go
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: to university. It's that the minimum that they need to
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: engage this new world we didn't even give to them. Ah. No,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: So being angry it is not enough. He's being effectively angry.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: State you have to be effectively angry.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 5: It's been a long week for you. That's really a
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 5: long day today.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you get be talking about the development.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: You can be talking about development because I kind of look,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: I'm a retired person. I don't have to lift the
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: finger to do anything. But when I look at the continent,
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: you know, so this issue of the foundational learning I
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: am carrying. I'm like you know the world knows me
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: to be carrying it on my head like there's no tomorrow,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: and there are countries that are ready because we know
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: what works. Do you understand you need the political will
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: for people to say these are the things that work,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: we will do it. I will use my leadership to
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: ensure that it is when we do the budgeting for education,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: those things that work are the things we will be
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: putting money to work, not building some ramshackle classrooms that
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: they're not building it for the children. I am telling
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: you on good I know, I know. I did the
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: public pocurementary form in this country. I've advised countries on
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: the continent their public procurement issues. The most of the
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: things you see where the where the politicians are happiest
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: to do around construction. It's all a bad corruption. It
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with you know, the provision of
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: of of something that for the people now none, no,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: forget it. This is the creamy part of their lives.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: So so so frankly speaking for me, your effective anger
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: is to solve this problem of governance. If we don't
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: solve it, we can. You know, God has given us
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: the faculty for the things that we must do. God
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: is not going to be the one that would tell
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: us to say, you know, we shouldn't be governed by rubbish.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: Ah, looking at your work at it at this age,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: I was at you. I was on goring at your
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: talks of by.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: Sixty Well next on the twenty eight, I'll be sixty
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: three now. So but I you know, like Caleb, I
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: can very much tell you that I feel like I'm
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: mad twenty three. Yes, you know, because it's it's in
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: the mind. Yes, And for me, there's so much the
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: continent has no business feeling. Oh no, we have no
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: business felling. We're not in another round where the minerals
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 2: on our continent will power the next the technologies of today.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: So whether it's lithium battery is going to be so
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: important for everything. Minerals therese critical mineral assets. Now there's
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: a race going on for it. And yet we're not
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: already with governance. If you don't if that's why I'm
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: telling you guys that if you don't understand the power
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: of good governance to take us out of the the depth,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: the what you guys normally called the trenches, what do
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: call that? And that you know your linked Yes, you know,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: that's what if we don't understand the power of good governance.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: This is the greatest obstacle. When somebody tells you that
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: this is your greatest obstacle, what do you do? You
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: face that thing. You don't go and be looking for
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: little little You know there's too much majoring in the minors. Oh,
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: you know, too much of majoring in the minors. So
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: you face that big obstacle, remove it. And it's saying
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 2: because it is your biggest obstacle, it means that all
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: the other obstacles can easily be worked on when you
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: have taken that one out. So so here we are.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: Africa is once again in this thing where Kai, China, America,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: Europe you're all competing for who can get a hold
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: of that the pot of these critical minerals and the continent.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: Right now, what governance system do you have different from
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: the one that massively misused what Africa got from from oil, copper, diamond,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: just name them. But what is different? The only thing
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: that can be different is you've been effectively angry and
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: saying we can't be governed by rubbish across the entire continent.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: You need to say to yourself, you see character, competence, capacity.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: Just character without competence and capacity won't help us because
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: you just have a very good nice man or woman
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: you cannot get we cannot mean's not competent, so it
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: won't help us. So they must have the three because
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: if they if they, if they also become Character is fundamental.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: It is the it is the you know, it is
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: the what do you call it? The there's a word
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: I'm looking for, the bedrock, and the non negotiable. It's
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: the non negotiable. You must have it. And then that
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: person must come with competence and capacity, because with competence
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: they have the cognition to be able to follow to
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: new things, to read it thin and to comprehend it.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: Then that capacity to be able to mobilize solutions to
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: problems and do not faint in the day of adversity.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: You see leaders in Africa when oil prices or copper
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: prizes stumble, they start crying. You're crying. So you came
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: for the world of flourish. You don't know if we're
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: in the world of flourish, why do we need you
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: as a leader? Ah? True, it is time for me
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: to go.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, last question, Then I let you go, the way
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: you work, the years of your track record, the things
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: you've done with world back education, solid minerals, something definitely
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: still keeping you awake at night concerning Africa.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is it? Our children and our grandchildren? You know,
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: it's I think it's unfair to them that they should
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: continue to be looked on as the laggards of the earth.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: It's not a good heritage. It shouldn't be what we
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 2: live for them. It's an error. The Bible says, what
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: does it say about living an inheritance? You know, it's fair?
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: And for me it's it's it's my father raised us
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: with one of many things that we could and the
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: one that has actually really made me be this person
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: that some people look at and they think, how is
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: it a business? He raised us to say that the
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: only usefulness of privilege mm hmm is to use it
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: to bring those with that privilege into a privilege. Otherwise
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: so good, you know. So every time that I think
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: of life, I say, my privilege is useless except I
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: am doing. When I went to government all that time,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: I mean the government I I did the Public Procurement reform,
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: did the nity, did Minister of minerals did Minister of Education.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: In fact, one of my colleagues in the book that
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: they wrote, said that of the Economic Team members, I
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: was the one moved by the President to do so
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 2: many more things than the others. Maybe some too, but
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: due process extractive industries, nating solid minerals education, I was
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: a member of the Economic Team. I was a member
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 2: of the past sector reform team.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: So my using my privilege was important for me to
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: buy in the work that I did and in the
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: way that I did the work. Like Samuel I Will,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 2: I have constantly said it, if I took your good
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: or your cow, please hmm, let us see it. Wow.
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: Because I didn't go to government too it chocolate. I
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: went because I've been fighting for a good society. And
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: so once I then stayed in government, it was all
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: my actions were going to go in the direction of
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: that fight for a good society. I had the leverage
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: to be able to do it in my sphere of responsibility,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: so I did it. Now outside of government, I must
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: continue to use my privilege to fight for a society
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: that works, because that's the only way those people outside
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: of privilege, or those that are weakened by one overpowering
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: Nigeria state and politicians that don't care about the weak
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: and the vulnerable. They would get at least my voice.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Why I'm never going to keep quiet when anything is
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: wrong in this society. I won't keep quiet. You're not
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: afraid afraid of who? They should be afraid of me,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: and I think they are. They are afraid of my voice.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 2: It annoys them, and I like it because someday perhaps
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: it would achieve what it is meant to achieve, which
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: is unlock the minds of everyone to knowing that we
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: don't have to accept this thanks to the way they are.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: No A, it's unfair. The children of the poor need
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: government to work. Yes, If government does not work, the
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: children of the poor cannot escape poverty.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 5: Oh true.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: The basic services that they need, a functional education system,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 2: a functional health system is dependent on the effective governance
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: of Nigeria or Botswana, or Tanzania or Ghana. They need.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: The poor need functioning governments. And when you think of
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: of the way that the politicians who are ruining the
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: chances of the majority, when you think of their pedic
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: where they've come from, their trajectory, I don't like to
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: use the word pedigree. You know, the trajectory. These people
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: mostly came from the bottom. So they now you take
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: off the ladder to enable the children of the poor
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: escape poverty. You're ruining society and sadly they're doing it
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: in a way that is not even intelligence. Because the
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: theory of enlightened self interest says that the middle class
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: have more to lose when society collapses, they are more
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: to lose. So they are more because why they have
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: more at stake. Okay, so what's enlightened self interest says
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: is that it is they now take responsibility for ensuring
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: that there is social mobility and economic mobility. But in
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: our own variant of middle class is some of these
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: people you see who think that you know, pillaging the
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: public treasury, how can it? In some account is the
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: way that you show that you're you're smart.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 3: That is the.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: Du'land who I don't even know how to how to
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: describe that. So so that's what you know, That's why
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: I I continue on this matter of we must get
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: good governance. Right, so you see me do the things
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: that I do, it's because of that. Look at and
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: then when I when I came to the conclusion that
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: persuading this political class that Africa has right now to
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: do the writings. You know, you you can have all
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: the conferences and invite them and talk to them and
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: preach to them, and they're not listening. I mean there's
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: no incentive. I described monopolical you know politics to you, right,
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: they have no incentive to change. So moral suasion doesn't
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: do anything for that. So what must we do. We
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: must build a new political class. That's why I designed
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: the School of Politics, Policy and Governance, the SPPG. So
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: we have to raise a new population of people who
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: think of public leadership on the basinis of the three
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: criteria that I talked about, character, competence, capacity. That's what
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: we train them for. So why should I you know,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: I need to do this. So we have Nigeria, it's
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: in the sixth cohort. We have Kenya. They started their
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: first go Hurt last year. They will graduate the first
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: class their first go Hurt in August. They're already preparing
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: for their second admission. We have Senegal they are starting
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: the admission process for their second court. Then Ghana is
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: coming on starting in the next quarter of this year.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: Where my vision is that at least twenty countries in Africa.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: We have systems for raising these new kind of leaders This,
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: this is it. You're that leadership is what will tackle
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: the governance. And you know the admiration they are normally
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: they the bad governance that has held Africa around for
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: too long. So that's why I will not stop.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, I believe everyone watching this right now few I
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: think there's mixed feelings. First, is your life, Like I said,
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: it's like a light, it's it burns, coruss, it eradicates
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: it and for me, I'm inspired by that and your
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: thoughts process.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 5: I don't even have to describe it.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: I just want to thank you profoundly for coming today
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: despite your very busy schedule. And there are things you've
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: said today that will go down history and as things
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: that will serve as compass for us as we navigate.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 5: We do need your voice more.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: Than ever at this time, and this platform is to
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: break that gap, to get it more closer to my generation.
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 4: And it's so impressive hearing this from you.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: I want to thank you. I want to thank you
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: for you know, the things that you do. I want
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: to thank you for raising the generation to understand that
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: a life of purpose is the most meaningful life, you know,
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: rcially profiting man or to gain the whole world and
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: lose their soul. For every one of us born into
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: this world, there's a purpose behind us. And the worst
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: thing you can do is to take the lowest command
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: denominator of purpose. And I see people who are who
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 2: are becoming so tired, so discouraged by what they see
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: around them, and so they are opting for the least
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: common denominator. They shouldn't, especially the millennials and the gen zs.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: They shouldn't. They should fight for official that that can
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 2: be anything desire for it to be. I believe that
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: Africa can claim the twenty first century. With China and
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: now India increasingly can begin to escape poverty in the
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: way that they have done. How much more Africa and
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: it's every generation is born for its own time.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much for coming.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: so much.