Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the wonderful Joumana about her choice of Time Heist

Transcript

Talks to the wonderful Joumana about her choice of Time Heist · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:41
  Commentary podcast. I am so excited today because I
• 0:46
  have a new guest with me. Jomana, how are you doing today?
• 0:50
  Hey. I'm great.
• 0:51
  It's so nice to be here. Now I've heard a rumour that
• 0:54
  you're all alone tonight, is that true?
• 0:59
  I've heard a rumour that Miles Richardson and Sean Carson are
• 1:01
  coming around later too. Is that true?
• 1:04
  Oh, that would be nice. Wouldn't.
• 1:09
  It I'm going to ask you about that in a minute.
• 1:12
  First of all, can I ask you? It's a pretty big question, so
• 1:16
  go to town with it. But how on earth did you find
• 1:19
  Doctor Who? And what is your Doctor Who
• 1:21
  journey? Right.
• 1:23
  Well, I'm going to I'm going to kind of keep it in in a fairly
• 1:28
  small nutshell. But so I moved here to the UK in
• 1:32
  2013 and you cannot be in the UK without hearing about this show.
• 1:40
  And I don't watch TV at all. But somehow by the time the
• 1:44
  pandemic started, it was like, what is this thing?
• 1:48
  Everybody's talking about it. Every you know, there's I hear I
• 1:53
  wasn't trained at one point. And this older woman, you know,
• 1:56
  like in her easily in her 60s, was on the phone and then
• 1:58
  suddenly she goes, oh, you've turned into a dialect.
• 2:01
  And I'm like, this is, you know, this is very unusual, but
• 2:05
  clearly this show is just. And, you know, stuff like that
• 2:09
  kept happening, kept happening, but what I imagined was not.
• 2:18
  I don't know. I, I, it's hard for me to
• 2:20
  reconstruct what it, what it was amounting to in my head at the
• 2:24
  time, but I thought that was sci-fi or whatever, another
• 2:28
  stupid sci-fi show with it turns out it is a stupid sci-fi show,
• 2:31
  but in the best. So I wasn't, I wasn't intrigued.
• 2:36
  But in the end, when you know, I have, I have a friend who's
• 2:39
  almost 80 who started talking to me about the TARDIS and how this
• 2:42
  police box still survives in this show.
• 2:44
  And I'm like, what is going on? OK, pandemic happens.
• 2:51
  I'm alone in my flat for the foreseeable future with nothing
• 2:55
  to do except my knitting. And, you know, there were these
• 2:59
  clips circulating online. There was somebody sent their
• 3:02
  Dalek up the village St. going human.
• 3:06
  Did you see that? It was on the BBC.
• 3:08
  And I was like. What?
• 3:11
  Oh, say, stay inside, stay inside.
• 3:14
  Stay in doors, all humans. When the lockdown started and I
• 3:18
  was like. You must have fought us.
• 3:20
  We're just mad, right? Like I am clearly missing on an
• 3:24
  important social phenomenon in this country.
• 3:28
  Well, I have nothing to do with. So let's let's give it a go.
• 3:32
  And at that time, Jodie was the was the Doctor and she put in a
• 3:36
  clip that shot in her cupboard, apparently that was really
• 3:40
  lovely. And I watched The Woman Who Fell
• 3:43
  to Earth. That was the first one I
• 3:44
  watched. It didn't kind of, it didn't
• 3:49
  hook me, but I thought, oh, actually, that's that's really
• 3:52
  nice. You know, that has AI can see it
• 3:54
  has a heart and it's not what I imagined at all, but I left it
• 3:57
  there. It didn't and I cannot remember
• 4:01
  why. I then a little later bought
• 4:05
  season 10 and started to watch not not season 10, sorry season
• 4:08
  9. So I just made the season and
• 4:10
  started watching it and as soon as I started I was hooked.
• 4:14
  Like completely like I I binged, I started bingeing and then I
• 4:19
  had to go to the his previous season and then I had to start
• 4:23
  watching all of new and completely non linear order.
• 4:27
  It was ridiculous. I don't know how I jumped back
• 4:29
  and forth season by season at random.
• 4:31
  So you just put it together like a big jigsaw.
• 4:34
  Oh, completely. It was ridiculous.
• 4:36
  I, I, I, I don't even know. It was like I only watch
• 4:39
  Capaldi. I wasn't really interested in
• 4:41
  the I was so owed by him and he was so perfect for me that when
• 4:46
  I saw, you know, tenant and and Matt Smith for for me, I don't
• 4:51
  watch TV. And by the way, I need to give
• 4:54
  you a warning. I have no TV literacy at all.
• 4:56
  And if I did? Leave it to all I don't worry,
• 4:59
  I've done nothing. Episodes with nothing.
• 5:01
  Oh no, you're lying. You you, you totally do.
• 5:04
  But if I did it wouldn't even be British.
• 5:06
  So you know, to me these were all complete unknowns I had
• 5:09
  never heard of any of I just saw 2 two young men during the
• 5:13
  earlier doctor. I was like, no, I'm not really,
• 5:16
  you know, but then I wanted to see Lara's story and then I the
• 5:21
  River Song came up. I'm like, oh, who's she?
• 5:23
  And then I went back. So anyway, so it was it was a
• 5:26
  completely ridiculous non linear process, but I swallowed up knew
• 5:31
  who repeatedly. It was like during the entire
• 5:35
  panda, you know. For me it was 2 long years.
• 5:37
  Every evening from 7 I would just sit there with my knitting
• 5:41
  and watch Doctor Who till 10 while I knitted.
• 5:43
  That sounds like heaven, that. Sounds wonderful.
• 5:46
  I don't know at what point I lost this, but yes.
• 5:52
  And then for some reason, Oh yes, no, I, I, I subbed to the
• 5:58
  BBC Doctor Who newsletter and at one point they, they announced a
• 6:02
  Big Finish, River Song tense Dr. box set.
• 6:07
  And I was like. What is this?
• 6:11
  What? This big?
• 6:12
  Finish and I looked and at the time the price was kind of put
• 6:17
  me off a bit because but it was so tempting and then they put
• 6:20
  out the word doctor box set and I was like OK, that's.
• 6:23
  A slippery slope, you know. How much shelf space have you
• 6:29
  lost now? No, I, I I only buy the
• 6:31
  downloads because I have no, no one bed.
• 6:33
  I have no space at all. But you know, my bank account
• 6:36
  has failed. And then through the big finish,
• 6:42
  eventually you kind of meet the classic doctor.
• 6:44
  And I had put this no, this isn't a red line.
• 6:46
  I will not start on the classics because this is the ready.
• 6:50
  Yeah, right. This 5th Doctor sounds really
• 6:54
  nice. So by that token, through Big
• 7:01
  Finish I kind of started and again non linear because I
• 7:04
  started with the 5th Doctor and then I think I think maybe Big
• 7:10
  Tom Baker and then Pertwee and then the other, you know, so it
• 7:13
  was like. So I'm a.
• 7:14
  Streamer or were you literally getting DVDs or?
• 7:19
  No to to watch the classics. I subscribe to Brit Box.
• 7:23
  Smart. OK, All in one box.
• 7:25
  Literally. Yeah, yeah.
• 7:29
  And I was like, well I am watching 3 hours a day of Doctor
• 7:33
  Who. This is worth it.
• 7:34
  Mind you, I never watched anything else on Brit Box.
• 7:37
  Oh, and I only, I only got Brit Box because I couldn't buy all
• 7:42
  of them on my iTunes. So I knew who I have it all but
• 7:47
  for some reason classic Doctor Who only some episodes are
• 7:50
  available which is very annoying and so to watch the rest I had
• 7:53
  to. So anyway, so that is my very
• 7:55
  messy journey that's. Quite a journey from what the
• 7:58
  hell is this program everyone's talking about to well now I've
• 8:01
  seen everything. I know, and The funny thing is,
• 8:04
  I saw absolutely everything before I talked to a single
• 8:07
  other fan. Oh, really?
• 8:10
  Complete vacuum, no voices in my head, just me and the episode.
• 8:15
  So you formulated all of your opinions.
• 8:17
  On your own. Oh, that's so refreshing to
• 8:19
  hear. Pretty much nobody.
• 8:21
  So what was your first fan event then?
• 8:23
  Like what was? When did you first sort of
• 8:25
  branch out and start meeting people?
• 8:28
  OK, so that would be two years ago and what happened?
• 8:35
  So I was following the Finish on Twitter and at one point, like
• 8:40
  early in 2023 when I had just started listening to Gallifrey
• 8:44
  and absolutely adored it, I Big Finish retweeted something that
• 8:50
  Shawn Carlson had posted about Gallifrey 1.
• 8:53
  And I was like, oh, he's on Twitter.
• 8:56
  Do I? Do I not because I'm not really
• 8:58
  a kind of or I follow the celebrities because I'm and I
• 9:02
  was like, oh, let's go on then. And then I found he's a quite a
• 9:08
  friendly person and you can exchange.
• 9:10
  And we had a few a few brief chats and then he he said he was
• 9:15
  coming to a convention that was regenerations.
• 9:17
  It was the last one that happened in Swansea late late
• 9:20
  2020. Yeah, that's right.
• 9:23
  And I was like, oh, I've never been to a convention.
• 9:25
  I'm not a crowds person. I don't you know, I don't know
• 9:27
  if. I would.
• 9:28
  I'm exactly the same issue. I didn't know how I would feel,
• 9:32
  I would feel out of place, etcetera, but I thought I really
• 9:34
  want to meet him. So I, I signed up and before I
• 9:39
  even went, one other Gallifrey fan who you might have met
• 9:43
  Lizzie, she's online as well, contacted me privately and said
• 9:47
  I'm, I also love Gallifrey. Do you want to chat about it?
• 9:49
  And we just started chatting like like so I started.
• 9:54
  So she was kind of my first really Whovian friend.
• 9:57
  I mean, I have a university friend who watches Doctor Who,
• 9:59
  but we, he watched it before me, but we never really talked about
• 10:06
  it that much. I mean, we do a bit, but he's,
• 10:08
  you know, I rarely see him. He he's living in Turkey now.
• 10:13
  OK. So, yes, so and when I went to
• 10:17
  Regen and match Home and others of, you know, Tenchelo was there
• 10:22
  and the the the Doctors, you know, the fifth, no, not fifth,
• 10:26
  sorry. Colin Baker was there, Sylvester
• 10:28
  McCoy and a few people, but and a bunch of northern heads.
• 10:32
  Oh. I'm glad you brought it up.
• 10:37
  And I found myself in the Europe and Sean was handing out
• 10:41
  official northern heads. I found my.
• 10:44
  People found my people. Well, you explain this, please.
• 10:49
  So, and anybody who might not know because I make the old
• 10:53
  reference right to the Northern heads, Yeah, scandalous ones of
• 10:57
  that. So I do apologise.
• 10:59
  But so, So what? Now I'll tell you this.
• 11:01
  So I knew when I saw spoke to you, I realised there was this
• 11:05
  group of women and men. You tell me today as well that,
• 11:11
  you know, have a slight obsession with Sean Carson.
• 11:14
  So I went online and I went, surely you're not Narvin from
• 11:17
  Gallifrey. Anyway, I went online.
• 11:20
  I suddenly started seeing pictures of him, leather jackets
• 11:22
  with a bit of scruff around his face.
• 11:24
  I was like, I'm going to start following Sean Castle on
• 11:28
  Twitter. The time War, Time War and
• 11:31
  Urban. So what's this all about?
• 11:38
  You've listened to the Gallifrey series.
• 11:41
  All of them. Yes.
• 11:42
  OK, great. So I mean, for anybody who
• 11:44
  doesn't know, so Gallifrey, it's 20 years old now, but it's this
• 11:49
  West Wing in space that Gary Russell started and and so
• 11:54
  Romana is president of Gallifrey.
• 11:56
  Leela is there as her her bodyguard.
• 11:58
  There's K9 in the beginning. There is Brax Yatel, Miles
• 12:03
  Richardson, who you know the voice known also known as the.
• 12:07
  Voice. Why doesn't he do talk in books?
• 12:11
  I'd listen every night before I go to sleep.
• 12:13
  I think he's done a few, but honestly, I mean, I just, I
• 12:16
  don't know, like, like I said, you know, there's men and
• 12:19
  there's Miles Richardson. I have no idea what word he came
• 12:24
  from, but I let me tell you so. And they created this character
• 12:31
  to be kind of a bad guy, kind of a, you know, a snarky politician
• 12:36
  who is slimy in the background, etcetera, called Narvin.
• 12:39
  And originally they wanted to just kill him off in the in the
• 12:41
  first season, but they wrote the part for Sean, who had impressed
• 12:46
  Gary in the previous Big Finish story.
• 12:49
  The oh Oh my God that it's just gone from my mind.
• 12:57
  A Doctor Who 1. No, yes, it is 1/8 Doctor.
• 13:00
  Very strange story. A history of fear.
• 13:03
  Oh, seasons of fear. No, no, no, no.
• 13:08
  Oh, oh, oh, the Jim Mortimer one.
• 13:10
  The divergent universe is it in that one?
• 13:12
  It's in the divergent universe, yes.
• 13:14
  Yeah, Natural History of fear. Natural History of fear, that's
• 13:16
  the one. We got there.
• 13:17
  That's the one. And he's, you know, he, he is
• 13:20
  excellent in it. He, he impressed everybody.
• 13:24
  So they wanted to bring him back and they wrote this part for
• 13:26
  him. And The thing is that it's a,
• 13:29
  it's a, it's a situation where the character takes a life of
• 13:33
  his own on the page that you hadn't planned and becomes so
• 13:38
  much more than you thought. And it was a very clear, so the,
• 13:42
  and, and the Norman as a character go through an arc that
• 13:45
  I have not seen in any other character.
• 13:47
  And he starts as this guy that you want to kick, right?
• 13:50
  And he, he, he's plotting against Romana, etcetera.
• 13:53
  But the thing, the different thing, the thing that's
• 13:55
  different. Oh my God, this is turning into
• 13:58
  a Galloway podcast. Hi.
• 14:00
  Whoa. Never.
• 14:02
  Mind is that he he can't stand Romana, but his loyalty to
• 14:06
  Gallifrey is absolute. So he's not a corrupt
• 14:09
  politician. He's just he he doesn't agree
• 14:13
  with her, but because he's she's the president, he is loyal to
• 14:18
  her even though he can't stand her, you know, and it's a very
• 14:20
  interesting thing. And in the beginning he's very
• 14:22
  dismissive towards Leela and the, you know, scandalist like
• 14:25
  the race, patronizing and racist.
• 14:28
  But as they are all thrown together in various adventures,
• 14:31
  he kind of he goes through this shift and.
• 14:36
  Such It's a dramatic shift, isn't it?
• 14:39
  It's true, but it's so well written and so organic and you,
• 14:42
  you see it happen. You see him struggling with, you
• 14:46
  know, his beliefs, etcetera, and then given and in the end, he's
• 14:49
  transformed by his friendship, this friendship with these two
• 14:52
  people. And of course, the the the
• 14:55
  loathing of Leela turns into love for Leela, which is so
• 15:00
  beautiful. Oh my.
• 15:01
  God of adore each other, don't they?
• 15:03
  Adore each. It's like it's it's the pride
• 15:05
  and Prejudice thing. Yeah, in space and it's
• 15:08
  beautiful and they're and they're all incredible actors
• 15:11
  and and you know, Sean is just, he is possibly the nicest man
• 15:15
  and in the universe, he's absolutely adorable and he and
• 15:21
  yes, so you know, This is why he has a cult.
• 15:25
  Following, You know it's a wonderful character.
• 15:27
  I love it when a cult following just pops up out of something,
• 15:31
  you know, it's sort of Doctor Who adjacent is niche Gallifrey.
• 15:35
  I know it's popular, but it's I just think it's wonderful that
• 15:39
  he gets to go to these events and there's a load of beautiful
• 15:42
  women and men that are following.
• 15:44
  Him. Around he must say to him, could
• 15:49
  you sort me out for another one please?
• 15:50
  And I saw him at the The Big Finish tape in full Northern
• 15:57
  costume. Yeah, yeah.
• 15:59
  Oh, wonderful. He had one done and and he's
• 16:03
  surprised that was at at this real generation thing where
• 16:06
  there was like a handful of us and we're going to he arranged
• 16:10
  for us to do photos because he wasn't on the schedule for
• 16:12
  photos, but he arranged and we're waiting for him in the
• 16:15
  studio and he turns up and in the northern costume and nobody
• 16:18
  had ever we screamed basically. Amazing.
• 16:23
  How many? How many women and men fainted?
• 16:27
  How many were on the floor, for God's sakes?
• 16:29
  Again. It was so lovely, but you had,
• 16:34
  you know, we are such a desperate, you know, they're all
• 16:37
  ages by far the Yeah, I mean not be the oldest side.
• 16:40
  There are others. But it's just like Doctor Who,
• 16:42
  right? It's desperate people from.
• 16:44
  All around the world and it's wonderful and we're all friends
• 16:47
  and it, it doesn't matter. And that's, that's what's 1 And
• 16:50
  that's why I really started coming to conventions and
• 16:53
  meeting people because everybody's so lovely.
• 16:55
  Isn't it astonishing, the communities that build?
• 16:59
  Oh, it's. Wonderful, you know, and the
• 17:00
  connections that people make. Well, I've started this, what,
• 17:04
  nearly five years ago now, 1000 episodes ago.
• 17:07
  My God, you know, I had like 3 or 4 guests and now we we're
• 17:12
  approaching like the 150th guest and people are meeting up and
• 17:16
  we're doing big socials. It's just extraordinary.
• 17:18
  It's wonderful. It's just absolutely fantastic.
• 17:21
  So yeah. Well look, I would love to talk
• 17:24
  about Gallifrey, so the cows come home, because I bloody love
• 17:27
  that series. Oh my God.
• 17:29
  Special. Stuff.
• 17:31
  But why don't you tell everybody what we're actually here to talk
• 17:34
  about today? I'm Heist.
• 17:38
  Yeah, now I've got a couple of questions for you #1 is you
• 17:43
  could have chosen any episode from series 8 and you chose Time
• 17:47
  Hoist. So let's start there.
• 17:49
  But also OK, because clearly this is another love affair.
• 17:53
  Peter Capaldi's 12th Doctor. Yes.
• 17:59
  What's the question? So well, one, why Time Heist,
• 18:02
  and two, why the 12 Doctor? OK, time has because it's a
• 18:07
  story I really love. It's really satisfying and I can
• 18:10
  go into more detail later, but it's it's also a story that I
• 18:14
  can put on for somebody who's never watched Doctor Who before
• 18:17
  and they will find it equally satisfying and easy to follow,
• 18:22
  you know, relatively and it's just gorgeous.
• 18:26
  And also, I kind of, I didn't feel like picking a very
• 18:30
  controversial episode and having to defend it the whole podcast.
• 18:34
  Let's leave that for when I'm a bit more seasoned.
• 18:35
  Didn't I say to you, how about world enough attire where the
• 18:38
  Doctor falls and you're like, yeah, maybe later.
• 18:42
  Yeah, but not because I don't think they're good.
• 18:44
  It's just because I find them very very painful and traumatic
• 18:47
  like. Like, this one is a breeze,
• 18:52
  right? It's like a Hollywood
• 18:53
  blockbuster. It's an episode of Hustle, You
• 18:55
  know it's. A comfort watch.
• 18:56
  I don't even know what hustle is, but yes.
• 18:58
  Oh, OK. I'll explain as we go through,
• 19:00
  don't you worry, because that that will sort of tie into some
• 19:03
  of the things I've got to say. Well, why the 12th Doctor?
• 19:06
  Well, I mean, obviously he was my first, but he really hooked
• 19:10
  me into the show. It can be very funny, but
• 19:16
  because basically I saw myself in, I was like, yes, This is why
• 19:18
  I'm insulted. A grumpy old man hired.
• 19:22
  He doesn't understand humans most of the time.
• 19:25
  You. Don't strike me as a grumpy old
• 19:27
  man, you. Know.
• 19:28
  No, I've, I've, you know, I have mellowed since, but you know, I
• 19:33
  was, yeah, stuff has happened to me.
• 19:36
  Understanding humans, I understand.
• 19:38
  Completely you. Know I'll turn on the news every
• 19:40
  day and go Oh my God, what's up now I'll stop looking.
• 19:45
  Yeah. Did you like all of that era?
• 19:50
  Like, are you a massive fan of sort of eight through to 10 the
• 19:53
  whole run? I am a massive fan of of that
• 19:58
  doctor. Some stories I think are weaker
• 20:01
  than others. I don't think there is any that
• 20:04
  I really dislike, but I will concede that some have not been
• 20:10
  done as well as they could have done or.
• 20:13
  Etcetera. But yes, I am a big fan of that
• 20:15
  here. I I think it has more depth than
• 20:18
  any of the others and probably that's why it's so little or
• 20:22
  it's so often misunderstood because people have expectations
• 20:26
  of the show and very often episode is trying to say
• 20:28
  something and by the looks of it, the audience is not at all
• 20:32
  ready to see what it's trying to.
• 20:34
  Say, I remember when Capote was cast and it was just greeted
• 20:38
  with acclaim like the the casting, because people were
• 20:41
  like, my God, he's an amazing actor.
• 20:44
  And then Series 8 came out and there was this real push back
• 20:48
  because he was, you know, the doctor that said, oh, if you
• 20:52
  wanna have a chat with him, he's that layer over there and into
• 20:55
  the dark. You know things.
• 20:57
  Like that and people going, I mean, Fraser tells me that's the
• 21:00
  point where his wife stood up and went, Nah, I'm done.
• 21:02
  Like he's he's not very nice man.
• 21:05
  And obviously it was sort of doing the Mr. Darcy thing,
• 21:08
  right? Of like he's initially very cold
• 21:11
  and like you said, doesn't really understand the world he's
• 21:14
  in, but he warms up as he goes along.
• 21:17
  Like you get something like Husbands of River Song where
• 21:20
  he's in the snow laughing with her in the snow.
• 21:24
  All of that. Everything and they come back
• 21:27
  last season. He's just wonderful.
• 21:29
  I think he's he's extraordinary. Yeah, no, he is wonderful.
• 21:33
  But the the The thing is OK, this is my big of course.
• 21:41
  You know. Confession time.
• 21:43
  Go for it. No, it's just that.
• 21:46
  OK, so I'll watch it without contact.
• 21:47
  So I didn't know who came before.
• 21:48
  And I understand if you've been with very cuddly Matt Smith for
• 21:51
  a few years, you're going to have a bit of a shock.
• 21:54
  But the point is, you know, no, he's not very nice.
• 21:56
  He's just been reset completely. It's a new regeneration cycle,
• 22:00
  right? And he's just been fighting a
• 22:01
  war for 900 years and suddenly he's reset to his basically what
• 22:07
  where he started as an alien who doesn't really understand
• 22:11
  humans, who is very has gone through great trauma, who like
• 22:16
  alien, he's alien. He does not.
• 22:19
  So people say, oh, he's not very nice.
• 22:22
  No, he's not nice. Why should he be?
• 22:24
  Not being nice is not the same as being good.
• 22:26
  You know, it's not the same and it's, I find it very superficial
• 22:31
  the way people kind of look at how each of the not just this
• 22:35
  one, but you know, I, I see how people kind of deconstruct every
• 22:38
  episode like, oh, that was not a very nice thing for him to say.
• 22:41
  That was and they judge every moment of the.
• 22:45
  You've heard this podcast, have you?
• 22:47
  Oh, I. Have I mean?
• 22:48
  I wish you guys good. But most of the time though,
• 22:52
  sometimes I think people take themselves very serious.
• 22:56
  Not me, I hope. No, no, no, no.
• 22:59
  I wouldn't be here otherwise. I'll never to.
• 23:01
  Experience this but. Yeah, you are right people.
• 23:05
  But, you know, but these same people would resent being judged
• 23:08
  on everything they do. Yes, Right.
• 23:10
  And I find that very hypocritical.
• 23:13
  And I'm like, you know, my son says this is the doctor.
• 23:16
  You know who he is? You know, he is always going to
• 23:18
  give his life for you. Why do you care how he behaves?
• 23:22
  He doesn't, you know, and I think that's, oh, not just that.
• 23:27
  It's, it's not just that they expect him to behave by human
• 23:30
  niceties. They expect him to behave by
• 23:32
  British niceties. Because I'm telling you, I come
• 23:34
  from a different culture. We don't, we don't, we are not
• 23:37
  nice and polite to each. Actually, I'll tell you what,
• 23:39
  we're polite to our enemies. If somebody is polite to you.
• 23:43
  Where I come from, which is Lebanon, you're like, oh, he
• 23:45
  doesn't like me. Would you like me to start being
• 23:50
  mean to you right now to prove that I like you?
• 23:54
  I mean, I've got 2, All right? I've got this fabulous pair of
• 23:57
  Polish cleaners at work, right? They're wonderful women.
• 24:00
  But honestly, they talk to each other and I don't understand a
• 24:03
  word they're saying because obviously I don't speak Polish.
• 24:06
  And they sound like they're shouting and screaming at each
• 24:08
  other. I went in one day.
• 24:09
  I went, oh, my God, what's going on?
• 24:11
  And they were like, no, we're just talking, you know, Jesus
• 24:15
  Christ. Yeah, you are right.
• 24:18
  There is that expectation, there isn't there to to to behave
• 24:22
  nicely, to behave Britishly. I was not sure as a word, but.
• 24:27
  And you know, and I what I love about this doctor is he is in
• 24:31
  the beginning, but as you said, by the end of his run, he has
• 24:35
  relearned to behave, to be among humans and to, you know, to
• 24:39
  mellow, etcetera. But in the beginning he's very
• 24:41
  raw, he's very real. He will always just tell you the
• 24:44
  truth as it is without and he doesn't understand why you have
• 24:49
  to coat it with nice tears. Why do we need it packaged in
• 24:51
  something soft? It's the truth, you know?
• 24:54
  It's so refreshing, isn't it? Like if we could all be like
• 24:57
  that, there'd be no problems. I was like that because, you
• 25:00
  know, I had AI had a similar journey.
• 25:02
  I had the I came here because I was tired of war and I came here
• 25:05
  and I had five years of therapy to get through my trauma in
• 25:08
  PTSD. And I was super raw.
• 25:10
  And if you had seen me when I landed in this in this country,
• 25:15
  my friends tell me I used to be terrifying.
• 25:17
  You know, I was just fierce. And I did not take any shit.
• 25:23
  And I did not care about people's feelings.
• 25:26
  I just cared about, you know, because my bullshit radar is
• 25:30
  very sensitive and I have no 0 tolerance for it.
• 25:32
  And then when somebody said something that even smells
• 25:36
  slightly of bullshit, I would just chop the head off.
• 25:38
  You know, it's just like no tolerance.
• 25:42
  I may be decapitated by the end of this course.
• 25:44
  No. No, no, that's the thing.
• 25:46
  I've I've, I've also kind of gradually as, as I felt safer
• 25:51
  and as I kind of worked through the trauma, I I mellowed a lot
• 25:54
  and and now I actually care about people's things.
• 26:00
  I will still chop people's head off if they're full of share.
• 26:05
  I do like that biting people though, you know that That's you
• 26:07
  know when people can be fierce. Oh, absolutely, But you know,
• 26:11
  that's why I really I really relate to all his, you know, the
• 26:15
  way he started and the way he kind of just learned to be soft
• 26:21
  and I found it. I and I think it's an
• 26:23
  extraordinary arc and the by an extraordinary actor who has
• 26:28
  clearly had a depth of life experience to allow him to
• 26:32
  portray that because I adore David Tennant.
• 26:36
  I think he's incredible. But when he started, he was too
• 26:38
  young to have a kind of life experience.
• 26:42
  Yeah. By the way, I don't think he was
• 26:43
  a prick. I I have a very different
• 26:44
  opinion of of his daughter than you.
• 26:46
  I know how what you think about him, but that's another.
• 26:48
  Podcast I think I said a stronger word than prick, but.
• 26:53
  But but yeah, I mean what? And when you hear Capaldi
• 26:56
  talking about the show, clearly what he sees things in it that I
• 27:01
  see in it that it's both human and cosmic.
• 27:04
  And for me, because I'm also, I have a particular spiritual path
• 27:07
  where I am very open to really big stories that take you beyond
• 27:14
  humanity and into something much deeper.
• 27:17
  I really connected with that. Now re watching it, I can see
• 27:26
  that it wasn't a lot of it. Maybe I have put there myself.
• 27:31
  I know that Capaldi would have put it there because he talks
• 27:33
  about it. But in the in the production,
• 27:36
  maybe it was not done quite as clear as that.
• 27:40
  So I filled in the gaps. But I think, yeah, I think
• 27:43
  that's why this round, this is my round.
• 27:45
  This is absolutely. Can I?
• 27:47
  You're not a little secret. I love Capaldi of Series 8 in
• 27:53
  the same reason I really love Colin in season 22.
• 27:58
  And I think there was push back against both of those Doctors
• 28:01
  because they were a little prickly.
• 28:03
  They were a bit distanced. They were very alien.
• 28:06
  And Colin used to say as well, you know, yeah, I want to be the
• 28:08
  Doctor that will step over a body and go, Oh, well, but if a
• 28:12
  butterfly is squashed, I'll be like, oh, God, no, An absolutely
• 28:15
  devastated. And I think he's got that as
• 28:18
  well. Like, his priorities are
• 28:19
  different. He's not a human being.
• 28:21
  He doesn't think like us. His focus is on keeping people
• 28:26
  alive, not on sparing their feelings.
• 28:28
  But you know what? You get what you get when.
• 28:32
  And he's so restrained now. I did enjoy shooting at where as
• 28:36
  a Doctor, but he just gave so much in every episode.
• 28:40
  It just had to get sort of bigger and bigger.
• 28:42
  He had to cry more tears and be more excitable because, you
• 28:46
  know, like, where can you go from there?
• 28:48
  If you're already high, you can only go higher.
• 28:51
  Whereas Capaldi held back so much in that first season, the
• 28:57
  payoff for me is that scene in Dark Water where he says to
• 29:01
  Clara, do you think that betraying me?
• 29:05
  Oh my God, you. Possibly think and that and and
• 29:07
  I just get goosebumps talking. To you about it because it's so
• 29:10
  beautiful. Beautiful.
• 29:11
  I adore that. I think this is the best, the
• 29:14
  best scene ever and the best definition of proper friendship.
• 29:19
  Yeah, so. And it's like, it's not about
• 29:21
  being nice to each other. It's not about it's, it's that
• 29:25
  you can be horrible to each other and you will still, you
• 29:27
  know, stand by each other no matter what.
• 29:30
  And I think it's just absolutely fucking incredible.
• 29:33
  And that's what it's about. And I don't understand why
• 29:36
  people as soon as somebody is behaves in a matter that's a bit
• 29:40
  aloof or a bit rough, they're like, oh, no, I can't, I'm not
• 29:43
  dealing with that. Like really, you don't have
• 29:45
  friends or family in your life who are difficult to to deal
• 29:48
  with, but you still deal with them because.
• 29:51
  Because for them. Yeah.
• 29:53
  So where's your love for the doctor?
• 29:55
  Suddenly the moment he doesn't says something you don't like
• 29:58
  you, you betray them basically by by just walking away and like
• 30:03
  come on. Without going after, you know,
• 30:06
  just the whole of social media now, I feel we may have already
• 30:10
  gone there. I do think if people don't
• 30:12
  conform to a certain set of expectations, then people really
• 30:18
  object. You know, it's like the scene in
• 30:22
  Can You Hear Me? The Jodie Whitaker story where
• 30:24
  where Graham says, I'm really scared I could be dying.
• 30:28
  And she doesn't know how to respond to that.
• 30:30
  She and I do, you know what? I lost my mum and I spoke to so
• 30:34
  many people where I said, look, my mum is terminally ill.
• 30:37
  They had no clue how to respond. And that is so natural, you
• 30:41
  know, like, but people were going, how dare she, how dare
• 30:45
  she not come for him and things like that just because it's
• 30:47
  something that that they can do. You know, it's a very strange
• 30:51
  state of affairs. The more I think about it, you
• 30:53
  know, the more the 12 doctors appear like me as well.
• 30:57
  Yeah, no, yeah. I don't know what, how there
• 31:01
  isn't a manual for these things. Nobody has the answer to
• 31:04
  everything. And there isn't one way of, of
• 31:09
  behaving with people. And now I feel like there is
• 31:12
  there is this culture of this is the proper way of, you know,
• 31:18
  giving a compliment. Like you don't tell a woman
• 31:21
  she's beautiful. You have to tell her she's
• 31:23
  smart. And I'm like, you know, I'm
• 31:24
  sorry. Please feel free to tell me, you
• 31:28
  know, but but more seriously, you know, I, I will take any,
• 31:33
  anything in the spirit in which it's intended and not stop at
• 31:36
  the words. Because people come from
• 31:38
  different cultures, people have different ways of wording
• 31:40
  things. And I find, you know, the way,
• 31:42
  the way the the Doctor Who fandom demands a certain
• 31:45
  behaviour tells me these are, these people are all xenophobic,
• 31:48
  basically. And it's there, right?
• 31:51
  You think that this fandom wouldn't attract those people,
• 31:54
  but it is definitely there. Denial.
• 31:58
  It has to come out somewhere, but.
• 32:01
  Oh my God, this is such a refreshingly forthright
• 32:03
  conversation. Fuck time now I don't want to
• 32:05
  talk about that anymore. Let's keep going that out.
• 32:07
  We probably should talk. About time eyes.
• 32:09
  That is, after all, what the podcast episode will say.
• 32:14
  Well, look, but before I go into the episode, can I confess
• 32:17
  another thing to you, please? I get a bit confused, really,
• 32:21
  because I'm not very keen on Clara.
• 32:23
  But, well, it is a thing, you know, that she's the one person
• 32:28
  in all of Doctor Who that really makes me question my sexuality.
• 32:31
  I mean, she's just so pretty. And in this because her costume
• 32:35
  in this. Good grief.
• 32:36
  Yes. And you know what, Joe?
• 32:38
  I met Jenna just in February. She knows.
• 32:43
  She is very nice. She was a bit poor thing.
• 32:45
  She she she she was staying a distance from the table because
• 32:49
  it was all guys and me. And I totally do not blame her
• 32:52
  because she's very small and she just had the baby and she was
• 32:56
  clearly feeling vulnerable, but she looked like she just stepped
• 32:59
  out of time heist. She was she I she's gorgeous.
• 33:04
  She's just has not aged today. And yeah, she's she's, she's
• 33:08
  lovely, she's lovely. But.
• 33:09
  Everyone mocks me when I talk about her and this episode and
• 33:12
  then, you know, that red dress and journey to the center of the
• 33:14
  TARDIS. I say, look, I'm the gayest man
• 33:16
  in all the podcasting, but I'm so confused when I watch Jenna
• 33:19
  Cole. She is very, very pretty.
• 33:23
  Well, look, should we go in and watch this thing?
• 33:25
  Because unfortunately I've got to tell you there is a test
• 33:28
  afterwards and fam have come together with a list of
• 33:31
  questions for you, OK? Of which I have already said,
• 33:36
  please don't blame me for Fraser Gregory's.
• 33:38
  In there somewhere I will not blame.
• 33:40
  You well look. Do you want to count us into the
• 33:42
  episode? Yes, I know.
• 33:43
  Let me find it, OK. This unusually sort of, because
• 33:48
  eight's dark, right? Eight's pretty dark overall.
• 33:51
  This is such a light it. Is light, yeah.
• 33:54
  Bouncy episode, you'll have a lot of fun.
• 33:58
  OK, 321 Oh, I need to turn the sound down.
• 34:06
  OK, you know, Jemma and I got very confused.
• 34:08
  I thought the titles were going off and then suddenly a couple
• 34:11
  of these heads going round and round in a washing machine.
• 34:15
  I love that. It's like, is it the time
• 34:17
  vortex? No.
• 34:18
  Oh. Look, Clara's got a goldfish.
• 34:24
  So we're doing this, aren't we? At the start of the season,
• 34:26
  we're doing Clara and Danny. They've met at the school and
• 34:31
  let's say the Doctor's less than impressed with the relationship.
• 34:35
  How do you feel about that? Well, I, I can understand.
• 34:40
  I mean, it's like your best friend that you've just been
• 34:44
  doing everything with and going on adventure with for years and
• 34:47
  years. And then there's a, there's
• 34:51
  another person. I mean, I I totally because when
• 34:55
  I have this has not happened to me very recently, but you know,
• 34:59
  if I have a really close guy friend and there's nothing
• 35:02
  romantic between us, but suddenly they get a girlfriend
• 35:04
  usually, usually I lose them. Yeah, I know.
• 35:08
  What you're saying here when they get into a relationship,
• 35:11
  and I think even though the doctor doesn't, he doesn't seem
• 35:14
  to really understand the relationship thing, we can feel
• 35:16
  that he's no longer the the centre of Clara's attention and
• 35:20
  he and you know, at this point he doesn't have anybody else.
• 35:24
  Who else does he have? He's completely alone, so.
• 35:27
  She's the one that's helping him navigate this massive question.
• 35:30
  He's got AM IA good man because he just doesn't know anymore.
• 35:35
  Exactly. Now look, she's already in that
• 35:38
  costume. Look with the tie.
• 35:39
  Open. It's a very good.
• 35:41
  It's really good though. She's ready for the heist
• 35:44
  already. Look like she knows.
• 35:46
  Well, I mean thank God, because Can you imagine in her usual
• 35:49
  miniskirts? That would have been really
• 35:50
  embarrassing. Yes, that's very true.
• 35:54
  I was having a look around her house.
• 35:55
  She knows. Oh, bloody hell.
• 35:56
  What's going on now? Oh yes, memory worms.
• 36:00
  Oh. It's great I this card is
• 36:02
  fantastic, it's just nothing happens when you answer the
• 36:06
  wrong. Do you know what?
• 36:09
  There's not enough puppets. And Doctor Who.
• 36:11
  That worm is just amazing. Oh my God, is that Jonathan
• 36:15
  Bailey I see? Jesus Christ, it's all going on.
• 36:20
  I only realized today that Sabra Pippa Bennett Werner is
• 36:27
  President Olivia in the later gala phrase.
• 36:30
  No, I was listening to 1 of hers.
• 36:33
  The other. Day.
• 36:36
  So it all comes back to Gallifrey.
• 36:40
  How is Jonathan Bailey linked to Gallifrey?
• 36:42
  We'll find a way. All right?
• 36:45
  Yeah. I mean, I saw him in Wicked at
• 36:47
  the cinema. Boy, he's got some charisma.
• 36:52
  He is. He is.
• 36:53
  I have to say he's very, he's very pretty.
• 36:56
  So we're straight into the plot here.
• 36:58
  Yes. Everybody's memories has been
• 37:00
  wiped and they've. Been told what's going.
• 37:03
  On. You're going to rob a bank, OK.
• 37:05
  And I'm not how confused doctors like really what what happened,
• 37:11
  how it's. A great way of grabbing your
• 37:14
  attention isn't. It fantastic.
• 37:16
  It's. So this music, Joanna, oh boy.
• 37:19
  And now I just don't like this screechy music.
• 37:22
  I can't hear it now. Thank God.
• 37:25
  Are you are you fan of this version of the theme tune?
• 37:29
  I am, but to be honest I can barely tell.
• 37:32
  Oh, OK. Fair.
• 37:33
  I can kind of tell the tunes apart, but, you know, I cannot
• 37:37
  tell the Tardises apart. I cannot tell the Daleks apart.
• 37:40
  Oh, I can barely tell the Screwdrivers apart.
• 37:42
  You know, for me, this is not a diamond.
• 37:44
  It's fair. And then frankly, you're more
• 37:47
  the saener for for that being the case.
• 37:51
  Oh. Capaldi looks sharp, like he's
• 37:53
  in a black suit. I.
• 37:55
  Know he looks. Look at this CGI shot going
• 37:58
  right down through the atmosphere and then into the
• 38:01
  bank. That's great.
• 38:02
  It's a great looking episode. It is.
• 38:05
  Visually, the all the aesthetic is just incredible.
• 38:08
  I only had one issue with the visuals this time, and it
• 38:13
  reminds me of an old problem I have with Blake 7, and that is
• 38:16
  somewhere in the middle of the episode we spent, we spent about
• 38:20
  15 minutes in one corridor, right?
• 38:23
  And they keep using this one, but they just keep changing the
• 38:26
  colour gels to make it look like they're on different floors, you
• 38:29
  know? But there's some money on the
• 38:31
  screen. This is very clever exposition
• 38:35
  via like the bank's own corporate thing.
• 38:39
  It works very well. And then there already is
• 38:42
  somebody's pounding on the door. There's no time to breathe.
• 38:47
  Yeah, but no time to ask the questions of what's going on
• 38:49
  because. When I realized, oh, they're
• 38:51
  actually in the bank right now. OK, I mean, that is a great
• 38:55
  move. The whole thing about losing
• 38:57
  their memories. So you know they've thrown into
• 38:59
  the plot with nothing you know with.
• 39:01
  Us, we're on the same level. We're just hanging along.
• 39:05
  I just love the Doctor having a new gang as well.
• 39:08
  Like I love all the gangs, you know, like a Capaldi gets, you
• 39:12
  know, Madam Vastra and all of that and and 10 has Jackie and
• 39:15
  Mickey and all of that. But when it's just a one episode
• 39:18
  gang. Oh.
• 39:19
  It's so much fun and this is very it's it's like between
• 39:22
  Ocean 11 and X-Men. Yes, they've all got their
• 39:26
  superpowers, haven't they? In different ways.
• 39:29
  And Clara, you know, she's got her.
• 39:30
  Oh, God, what's he doing with that worm?
• 39:33
  Sorry. It's very rude looking.
• 39:38
  I wonder if they made a toy of that worm.
• 39:41
  I have no idea. I don't know, I don't really buy
• 39:45
  Doctor Who toys. Have you got?
• 39:47
  Any Me neither. I mean honestly, I spend enough
• 39:50
  money on Doctor Who has this. It's the one concession to me
• 39:53
  being an adult is I don't buy the toys.
• 39:55
  That's it. That is it.
• 39:58
  Running down corridors? Great.
• 40:00
  Great. These two guest actors, like
• 40:04
  you're just going to do a lot of running, all right?
• 40:09
  He's taking charge already, I said.
• 40:12
  I think you can tell that Jonathan Bailey has just got a
• 40:15
  great future ahead of him in acting, because he really does.
• 40:19
  He just holds his own and he has to go up against Capaldi quite a
• 40:22
  few times in this episode. Doesn't he get one great line?
• 40:26
  What is it? Oh, is that why you call
• 40:28
  yourself a Doctor? Professional detachment.
• 40:33
  Have you ever robbed a bank, Jovana?
• 40:36
  No, I can't say that. No, me not either.
• 40:41
  But now can I tell you about hustle?
• 40:43
  Oh yes. Yes, so it was, it ran for about
• 40:45
  7 seasons and it was basically a heist plot every week, but not
• 40:49
  banks. They would all have to play
• 40:51
  different parts. They were like a professional
• 40:53
  heist team and they'd be hired in to take down crooks.
• 40:57
  And every week there was a plan like this and it was all sort of
• 41:00
  slow motion things, everyone playing different parts, very
• 41:04
  stylish, very sexy. And this, that's kind of what
• 41:07
  this is based on. Oh, I.
• 41:09
  See. In the future.
• 41:10
  So this thing here, you know, where they walk into the bank in
• 41:13
  a minute and they're sort of swaggering in slow motion, and
• 41:16
  that is very, very hustle. Oh, I see.
• 41:19
  Because I always associate it with Ocean 11, which is the one.
• 41:23
  I think it's kind of. Yeah.
• 41:25
  And the music as well, It's very much that is there you go, the
• 41:29
  slow motion. I know, don't they look cool?
• 41:32
  They look amazing. I mean it is gorgeous.
• 41:35
  Look at that. If that was me and they said
• 41:37
  right, we need you to walk very cool in slow motion, I would
• 41:41
  trip over or just look. I'm sure they're not actually
• 41:44
  walking in slow motion. Can you please just walk very
• 41:51
  slow? I could Infinity when they're
• 41:53
  trying to run in slow motion and it's just the most slow.
• 41:57
  I watched that the other week. You know, to do that for another
• 41:59
  podcast. You're right, they was doing
• 42:00
  that. Oh, that great monster's about
• 42:03
  to come out The teller. Yes.
• 42:06
  It's a great bit of design work. It is, it really is and.
• 42:12
  Now I think. This is a little bit, a little
• 42:16
  bit on the nose. How do I say racist?
• 42:19
  But do you see all the extras here?
• 42:21
  They've got like sheiks and and things like that?
• 42:24
  There's like, there's, you know, really there's no, it's sort of
• 42:28
  leaning into a certain type of person has money if you look at
• 42:31
  the crowd. Yes, well, it is reality, you
• 42:39
  know, It's not an exaggeration. I just want to.
• 42:43
  I just want to be a fantasy lad, that's it.
• 42:44
  All it's OK, I'm telling you it's I'm telling you it's not a
• 42:49
  fantasy. Those eyes of the teller.
• 42:53
  This is extraordinary, isn't it? And and and the eyes blink.
• 42:57
  I mean, it's like, whoa. Just don't watch the
• 43:01
  confidential. Was this still confidential this
• 43:03
  year? No, They must have done a clip
• 43:05
  because there was a there was a video of how they did hit right.
• 43:09
  And he's got all of these little electronic surfer.
• 43:11
  Every time he moves, it goes. We don't get to hear that.
• 43:17
  Yeah, you know this man who has his brain turned to soup and it
• 43:22
  starts leaking out of his eyes? Yeah, sort of how I feel most
• 43:25
  mornings, if I'm honest, with his flat.
• 43:30
  I mean the Flathead is quite strong.
• 43:33
  Oh my God, yeah, this is very yeah.
• 43:36
  Was you a big fan of Ocean's 11 then?
• 43:39
  Yes, yes, I I love it. I think it's it has the same.
• 43:44
  I remember Ocean 11, it came out not long after 911 and I
• 43:49
  remember it at the time it was like after this, this real gloom
• 43:54
  and and fear that we had for a while.
• 43:56
  This movie comes out and it's a breath of fresh air and it's
• 44:00
  light and it's clever and it's it doesn't take itself seriously
• 44:03
  and it's a satisfying ending. It's just entertainment.
• 44:07
  I'm so stupid when I watch these movies because I just believe
• 44:11
  the plot as it's playing out and you know, there's always like a
• 44:13
  trick or two and I'm just going, oh, right, yeah, it's all
• 44:16
  working OK. Oh, no, it's all gone wrong.
• 44:18
  No way. The whole thing been going wrong
• 44:20
  was all the set up, all the like, oh every time every time.
• 44:24
  And I just enjoyed it so much and I watched it several times
• 44:27
  and it's, it's just enjoyable. It's.
• 44:29
  Yeah, I don't want you to think I'm that sort of a person, but
• 44:32
  you know, George Clooney. Oh my God.
• 44:35
  Yeah. Oh, come on.
• 44:36
  It's George Clooney, I think. We all we're.
• 44:38
  Still. Who is now married to a very
• 44:41
  prominent Lebanese lawyer, I might say is part of the family
• 44:44
  now. Oh, it's Keely Hawes, isn't it,
• 44:48
  playing Miss Dell Fox? If you say so, I'm sorry, I've
• 44:52
  never. I don't know her now.
• 44:55
  I know she's a big deal in England, right, But I don't know
• 44:58
  her from anything. I think she was in Spooks which
• 45:01
  is like a spy drama but I never watched that.
• 45:04
  So. I mean, it's a it's a great
• 45:06
  turn, right? She's fun villain.
• 45:08
  She she's brilliant in this I she is absolutely brilliant.
• 45:11
  I love her as the clones and well, we'll we'll get to the
• 45:15
  director soon, but yeah, she's she's really excellent.
• 45:18
  I. Really have that how you don't
• 45:20
  come to any of this even with like performance expectations?
• 45:23
  No, I just, it's all new to me and I, I just.
• 45:28
  Like the purest opinion I could possibly have on it.
• 45:31
  Yeah, I'm not comparing it to anything else.
• 45:34
  You know, it's not like, oh, this actor is usually better.
• 45:37
  Whether, I don't know. This is a new fresh face to me.
• 45:41
  It's a very large lift. It is a large lift.
• 45:48
  But I do like the camera angle when they come in looking down.
• 45:51
  I mean, Douglas McKinnon, the director, he's just shooting
• 45:54
  this in every possible way he can.
• 45:57
  The direction is incredible. It's just, it's, it's like a
• 46:00
  comic book. Yes, yeah.
• 46:03
  Do you read a lot of comics? I don't read a lot now, but I
• 46:07
  was brought up on them and I made comics.
• 46:08
  I have a history as a comics. You know you.
• 46:12
  Made some Gallifrey ones, haven't you?
• 46:14
  I, I did these are I'm doing for fun, but I, I was known as a
• 46:17
  comic author and I played a lot with different, yeah, different
• 46:21
  things. So I'm I'm very interested in
• 46:23
  comics as. AI know you listen to some of
• 46:26
  these Gary Russell right? And I know because you put on
• 46:30
  Blue Sky that this is one of your favourites.
• 46:31
  So you probably are listening to this, right?
• 46:33
  She's a fabulous artist. And get a Kickstarter going.
• 46:36
  All right? We want the Germana comic strip
• 46:38
  on the shelves. Yeah, Let's see if he pays
• 46:43
  attention to that. If not, I'll give him a kick.
• 46:46
  Right. What's going on with the plot?
• 46:48
  I've totally lost. It we're about to try this bomb
• 46:50
  and I and I, I love how he's like, don't be pessimistic.
• 46:53
  It will affect him morally. Like what?
• 46:55
  More than us dying. It just comes straight to the
• 47:01
  point, don't he? Yes.
• 47:02
  He's so funny. He's the.
• 47:04
  Person you need, right, If you're in life or death
• 47:06
  situations. He goes, yeah, do you know what?
• 47:08
  You probably aren't going to make it out of here alive if I'm
• 47:10
  honest. Why are you in charge?
• 47:12
  Just the eyebrows and everybody's like, yeah, yeah,
• 47:14
  that makes sense. He weaponizes those eyebrows.
• 47:18
  Do. You remember when he turned up
• 47:21
  in Day of the Doctor? It was the scariest thing in the
• 47:24
  whole episode. Oh geez, I was.
• 47:29
  No, Sir. Was it all 12 of them?
• 47:31
  Oh no, all 13. Right.
• 47:37
  And. We were both waiting.
• 47:43
  Oh, I didn't quite have the desired effect.
• 47:46
  Oh Clara, Clara, oh, oh. And I always, you know, in the
• 47:54
  scene, I always think how he's not trying to shield Clara from
• 47:57
  the explosion. And probably if he tried Clara,
• 48:00
  I would kick him in the shins. Yeah.
• 48:02
  If Pertwee, If Pertwee was Clara's doctor, he'd be bruised.
• 48:07
  Wouldn't. He.
• 48:08
  Would be bruised, yes. Yeah, I'm not great with
• 48:11
  heights, you know, so I can't imagine I'll be going down that
• 48:14
  hole. Oh, look at that.
• 48:16
  The way it all just repairs the. Floor.
• 48:18
  It's. Brilliant.
• 48:20
  And and the doctors at night, you know, it's like, oh wow,
• 48:22
  this is so clever. Where do they find these
• 48:26
  industrial locations with all these pipes?
• 48:29
  It's like every spaceship. It all looks like this, doesn't
• 48:32
  it? It does I I'm wondering if this
• 48:34
  was used for the 10th Doctor's last episodes.
• 48:42
  Very similar, right? End of time.
• 48:45
  And like 42 has that look as well, doesn't it?
• 48:48
  And yes, but it does look lovely.
• 48:52
  I mean, that's one thing, you know, we sort of rat on the new
• 48:56
  series for for dating, you know, because nothing dates like
• 48:59
  science fiction. But Jesus Christ, I think this
• 49:02
  still looks amazing. I I, I think it totally looks
• 49:05
  amazing. 10 years old. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:09
  Yes, Jenna, you look amazing too, all right?
• 49:14
  Oh, and it's nice as well, but there are personal stakes for
• 49:18
  both Sabre and Sioness. So they're they don't realise it
• 49:22
  yet because they've got no memory, but they're both robbing
• 49:25
  the bank for a reason. And then after they think
• 49:29
  they're dead, when you get that moment of triumph, yeah, they're
• 49:33
  alive. The Doctor gets to give them the
• 49:35
  two. Things.
• 49:36
  It's a proper hero moment. And they're, yeah, it's, it's
• 49:41
  great. And, and it's so interesting
• 49:44
  that throughout this episode you're like, OK, they're robbing
• 49:46
  a bank. We're invested and them robbing
• 49:48
  the bank. We have no idea why the Doctor.
• 49:50
  Is trying to rob the. Bank, we don't really know.
• 49:55
  Like we know, Miss Dale Fox has said.
• 49:56
  But we don't really know who owns the bank.
• 49:58
  We don't really know what they're trying to rob.
• 50:02
  You know what could drive the doctor to do something like
• 50:06
  that? I like to think, you know, Oh my
• 50:08
  God, this would be great. Right?
• 50:10
  So you get the novenits together.
• 50:12
  Yeah. And I'll assemble the ham fam,
• 50:14
  Right. And together, we'll pull off a
• 50:16
  heist where we're in a convention where we'll sort of
• 50:21
  steal Sean Carlson and Miles Richardson, you know?
• 50:29
  Imagine. Us coming down the ceiling on a
• 50:31
  wire, you know you ain't grabbing them.
• 50:34
  Oh boy. What should we call it?
• 50:36
  Hottie Heist or something like that.
• 50:41
  Oh dear. But you know, like, do you
• 50:43
  remember pilot of the Date with Michelle Ryan as Lady Christina?
• 50:49
  That had a bit of a heisty bit at the start, didn't it?
• 50:51
  When she was in the museum. Yes, very much.
• 50:55
  But it didn't really commit to it like this does.
• 50:57
  No, it was just a way to introduce the bored aristocrat
• 51:00
  who is committing crimes because he has nothing else to do.
• 51:04
  That's kind of sexy as well, you know?
• 51:07
  If. You're into that kind of thing.
• 51:10
  I've started to think I'm into everything.
• 51:15
  Oh, but now look, here's that corridor I was telling you
• 51:18
  about, right? Keep an eye on how many
• 51:19
  different colours this corridor gets.
• 51:21
  Oh, I know, I know. It's I, I reckon it's like the
• 51:25
  one corridor. It's probably in the parking lot
• 51:27
  somewhere, you know, underground parking.
• 51:29
  Yeah, it looks sort of Spacey. We'll use it, you know.
• 51:32
  Have you been to the BFI? Yes.
• 51:35
  You know, that's where they shot like frontier in space, all
• 51:39
  those concrete, that's where the.
• 51:41
  Oaklands are attacking the brutalist architecture, yes.
• 51:44
  Anything that looks mildly futuristic, we'll shoot there.
• 51:48
  Well, as they should. As they should they.
• 51:50
  Should it's just the vaults then?
• 51:52
  Is that where we are now, or we're heading towards the
• 51:54
  vaults? They're heading, they're trying.
• 51:55
  SI is trying to open the vault and I don't know what these two
• 52:00
  are doing. I've forgotten you.
• 52:03
  Know what's really funny? That if we do do this heist to
• 52:06
  get Shawn Carlson, I can also say that sigh is trying to open.
• 52:09
  But that'll be my sigh, you know?
• 52:12
  Right, I've got. I've got my.
• 52:17
  Own sigh. Yeah.
• 52:18
  Oh yeah. Oh, the man with the Flathead.
• 52:23
  I find that pretty interesting because that gives you a very
• 52:26
  plausible reason why they would choose to use the shredders
• 52:29
  rather than be taken. Because you see that and you're
• 52:32
  like, yeah, I totally get why they would just prefer to die.
• 52:37
  I like as well that in the Steven Moffett era, he
• 52:41
  frequently does this with his monsters.
• 52:44
  They get like a tragic, you know, they're they're sometimes
• 52:48
  being held against their will. It's the same in hide, isn't it?
• 52:51
  You think it's a monster and it's just looking for its lover.
• 52:56
  Yeah. It's the same twist in this,
• 52:57
  isn't it? Look, I love that.
• 52:59
  I love that first because it's about don't judge by appearance.
• 53:02
  Everybody has a story and I love.
• 53:05
  One of the reasons why I adore the Doctor as a character is
• 53:08
  that he will always give them the chance.
• 53:12
  He will always try to find out first if there's something they
• 53:16
  need to stop doing what they're doing.
• 53:18
  I mean, I think when it gets pulled out in chains, I think
• 53:21
  the doctor knows everything he needs to know about how.
• 53:23
  Right, exactly. There's coercion here.
• 53:27
  Did. You say don't.
• 53:27
  Don't just buy appearances there.
• 53:30
  Oh, good. I'll need to confess something
• 53:31
  else to you then. My other half is a teller.
• 53:33
  If he brings in a cup of tea, don't be too shocked.
• 53:35
  All right, you've got to get used to.
• 53:41
  I'll just come out with this bullshit, all right?
• 53:43
  Just nod. You don't even have to laugh.
• 53:46
  Just nod, OK? Got it.
• 53:50
  Oh, but look how sort of like even the the the wetness of the
• 53:55
  glass and that like it's been trapped in there and it's
• 53:58
  breathing loads. Exactly.
• 54:00
  It's yeah. Yeah.
• 54:06
  I mean, you can't even at this point, you don't know the story.
• 54:10
  You can't, you still kind of feel some sympathy because
• 54:13
  clearly it's a slave. You know it's.
• 54:17
  AI mean, had we gone into the story right, with everybody with
• 54:21
  their memories intact, will there be no mystery?
• 54:24
  Would that because we know why they're there, what they're
• 54:26
  doing. So the fact that we're piercing
• 54:27
  this together alongside them, Yeah, I think it is super
• 54:30
  clever. It's it's, it's brilliant
• 54:32
  storytelling. And this bit, now where is this
• 54:37
  the bit where she sacrifices herself, Sabre or you think she?
• 54:40
  Has well. Well it's not that she
• 54:41
  sacrifices herself, it's that she she's caught by the teller
• 54:44
  and she prefers to to just be dematerialised rather than have
• 54:53
  her brain. I can't even imagine imagine
• 54:56
  choosing between two fights on the spot.
• 54:59
  Yeah, I know that's. Terrifying.
• 55:01
  Yeah, yeah. But this is where we think she
• 55:04
  dies, yeah. Already we're seeing a
• 55:06
  difference in the 12th Doctor because he looks genuinely moved
• 55:10
  by the fact that she has chosen to die that way, whereas in Into
• 55:15
  the Dalek he really was cracking jokes.
• 55:17
  About the diet. Well, yes, if you like.
• 55:22
  But The thing is, for instance, I, this does not, this does not
• 55:25
  surprise me because even, even when we're into the Dalek and I,
• 55:29
  you know, I watched it not knowing anything.
• 55:31
  But to me, the way he behaved was the way somebody behaves
• 55:37
  when they are so raw and they feel so much and it's so
• 55:40
  unbearable that I have to clamp it down with, you know,
• 55:44
  insensitive voice cracks and whatever because they're,
• 55:47
  they're feeling too much. So I never took it as a sign
• 55:50
  that he doesn't care. I took it as a sign that oh
• 55:52
  gosh, he is. This is too much for him.
• 55:55
  I have a really black sense of humour, so I get it as well, you
• 55:58
  know, Like sometimes you, I don't know, you just want to
• 56:00
  break with a joke, you know, Even if it's.
• 56:03
  Not appropriate. Gallo's humour.
• 56:05
  I mean, I know that because we, you know, I've, we survived the
• 56:09
  war by, by making very inappropriate jokes, you know,
• 56:13
  while being bombed. And it was just, Oh my goodness.
• 56:17
  I mean, I don't know if it's the, if it's the the moment
• 56:21
  today. Now go on.
• 56:23
  So I, I, there's somebody who worked as an ambulance orchard
• 56:29
  during the war who they would just go and collect bodies, tell
• 56:33
  the story of and they just, there were too many bodies and
• 56:36
  they just packed them standing in the ambulance and they left
• 56:39
  it. They left it and then they ran
• 56:42
  because the next person who was going to come open the doors.
• 56:47
  No, I get it. I get.
• 56:49
  It but I I find it hysterical. Just what an incredible person
• 56:55
  to do that job. I know.
• 56:57
  Oh my goodness. And yeah, exactly.
• 57:00
  And, and you cannot survive psychically if you don't use
• 57:05
  humour that way. And of course, I mean, if you're
• 57:08
  not in that situation, it's completely inappropriate to joke
• 57:11
  about it because you're not going through it.
• 57:14
  But if you're going through it, it's the only way you can remain
• 57:16
  sane, I mean. My story's a little, a little
• 57:20
  less traumatic, but when my nan died, right?
• 57:23
  And this is my nanny Ford, who I couldn't stand.
• 57:26
  Oh, she was a cow as she died and she had a heart attack.
• 57:30
  And we're sitting there and everyone's sort of very solemn
• 57:32
  and sad in the funeral. And then she comes.
• 57:35
  My heart will go on. That was the song.
• 57:38
  And she had a heart attack and she didn't even have a fucking
• 57:41
  heart. I mean, I could, my shoulders
• 57:43
  were. Shaking, I was laughing so.
• 57:47
  Hard. Oh, well, yeah, we deal with
• 57:49
  things in different ways, right? Absolutely and and that's why
• 57:52
  people should not judge. There isn't 1 correct way of
• 57:55
  dealing with any given situation.
• 57:57
  We do though, don't we? It's you're right, we should be
• 58:00
  better at this. Should be better at especially
• 58:02
  this than them, because this is a show about not judging by
• 58:06
  appearance, about having compassion for people who are
• 58:08
  completely different from you, about trying to find out what
• 58:11
  they need before you, you know? What was it that Yaz had written
• 58:16
  on her hand? What would doctor?
• 58:19
  Do exactly. Yeah.
• 58:23
  Oh gosh, You see this ring of lights here that sides that
• 58:26
  there's a really cool picture of Capaldi by that green ring of
• 58:30
  lights. It's the picture.
• 58:31
  It's the Steel 1, the iPlayer. Man, oh man, he did have, I
• 58:36
  mean, I, I, I do think it's sad that he doesn't want to come
• 58:41
  back to Doctor Who. And he's made that abundantly
• 58:43
  clear in interviews, hasn't he? But recently he gave an
• 58:45
  interview where he was, he gave a really good reason in that he
• 58:50
  said, you know, I, I was the doctor when I played the doctor.
• 58:53
  If I ever go back, I'll just be a guest.
• 58:56
  And somehow that just lessens who my doctor is.
• 58:59
  During that period, I was the doctor, you know, I I get it.
• 59:04
  I get. It absolutely, you know, he
• 59:05
  takes it seriously and he kind of there's a he brings an
• 59:08
  integrity to the part. And I'm not saying that the
• 59:10
  other actors don't have their own their own way, but he he
• 59:16
  sticks to what he believes. And I and I love that.
• 59:18
  I mean, I would die to see him again as the Doctor, but I
• 59:22
  completely respect the way he he, you know.
• 59:27
  Jacob Dudman, I love you, but please stop putting on that
• 59:30
  Scottish accent. It's no big finishes, right?
• 59:33
  Only Peter Capaldi sounds like Peter Capaldi.
• 59:36
  Yes, yes, I know that's annoys me one day.
• 59:40
  Almost all the audio books they they exaggerated, but they
• 59:43
  exaggerate the the the comical aspect of it.
• 59:46
  And he's not like that at all. He's not this comical grump.
• 59:50
  That is not who this doctor is. Oh gosh, this here on the wall,
• 59:54
  right? So when you first watched this,
• 59:56
  you wouldn't have known who half those people were flashing up on
• 59:58
  the wall. Now.
• 59:59
  Now I do. Now, yes, now I recognize
• 1:00:03
  Charlton among others and. You're in too deep now.
• 1:00:09
  I have I have long passed the the point of no return.
• 1:00:15
  Come on doing podcasts what? What more do you want?
• 1:00:18
  You remember that sane young woman who went?
• 1:00:20
  What the hell was that Dalek doing in the High Street, you
• 1:00:23
  know? I don't, and I'll tell you a
• 1:00:25
  secret, she wasn't as fun. Oh.
• 1:00:27
  Really. My God, it's like when I
• 1:00:31
  discovered Doctor Who, I decided, OK, now it's time to
• 1:00:34
  have a childhood that I did not have.
• 1:00:36
  Love hearing, really embracing. I'm cosplaying.
• 1:00:41
  I went to I went to galley. I wore the urban costume and
• 1:00:45
  mines was like, it makes you look like a nun.
• 1:00:47
  I'm like, what are you saying exactly?
• 1:00:52
  Do you know what? Right.
• 1:00:54
  The only way I could deal with the questions was to be in a
• 1:00:57
  relationship with another Doctor Who fan.
• 1:00:59
  Eventually I found one, but I had to go for a lot of non
• 1:01:02
  Doctor Who fans 1st and all going to me.
• 1:01:04
  Yeah. What are you doing?
• 1:01:05
  Like if, if they don't get it, they don't get it.
• 1:01:10
  Yeah, yeah, Mine is happily very, very understanding,
• 1:01:17
  although he doesn't quite. Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  But when they say. It brings you a lot of joy.
• 1:01:22
  But that's the thing. That's the thing.
• 1:01:24
  He knows it brings me a lot of joy.
• 1:01:25
  It's so sweet. So when I'm done, he's like,
• 1:01:29
  let's watch a Doctor Who episode.
• 1:01:30
  And I'm like, but you don't enjoy it.
• 1:01:32
  I'm like, no, but you, you do. You know what?
• 1:01:36
  I don't even know who you are, who we're talking about, but
• 1:01:38
  thank you for being such a patient man.
• 1:01:43
  Oh, look, now, oh, this is now another thing I love about
• 1:01:47
  Capaldi's Doctor, right as I feel, because we know he's been
• 1:01:49
  a Doctor Who fan all of his life.
• 1:01:51
  He was the one that met Tom Baker when he was younger.
• 1:01:54
  He used to write letters to Doctor Who magazine and all of
• 1:01:57
  this. So for him, this was like the
• 1:01:59
  dream job. So when they had to do that
• 1:02:02
  Sonic screwdriver, he knew exactly what to do with it.
• 1:02:05
  Didn't they like from the from day one?
• 1:02:07
  He was really he is he is amazing.
• 1:02:11
  I mean he he he totally is the doctor.
• 1:02:14
  He's not acting. He is absolutely embodying the
• 1:02:18
  character and and you can see that he has a lot of the heart
• 1:02:21
  now in him. You know that that is the
• 1:02:23
  roughness and the. Well, Hartnell could be a bit
• 1:02:29
  crabby, couldn't he? Oh yeah, but but, you know.
• 1:02:33
  By the time he got to see season series 10, I mean he was
• 1:02:37
  basically Pertwee that huge bouffant haircut.
• 1:02:40
  I. I know, Absolutely.
• 1:02:43
  Yeah. It's funny.
• 1:02:44
  It's kind. Of, you know what's strange
• 1:02:48
  about the 12th Doctor and Clara? Now, I do have issues with that
• 1:02:51
  relationship, but I don't want to talk about it here because
• 1:02:52
  we're loving him today and I'm really enjoying this is I think
• 1:02:57
  they have real chemistry as actors and it's not sexual
• 1:03:03
  chemistry, but it's really powerful on the screen
• 1:03:06
  regardless. And that's kind of refreshing
• 1:03:09
  because I think before this, it's mostly been younger doctors
• 1:03:13
  with pretty companions. This is the first time we've
• 1:03:17
  deliberately sort of pushed away from that and it kind of sizzles
• 1:03:21
  that bit. And Kill the Moon where she
• 1:03:22
  loses her shit at the end in the Sardis.
• 1:03:26
  That's a real chemistry there. Oh, completely.
• 1:03:28
  They are they are fantastic together.
• 1:03:30
  You can and I know that the actors they had this wonderful
• 1:03:35
  friendship. They got along like a house on
• 1:03:37
  fire. And I think this kind of
• 1:03:40
  companionship without I don't like romance and Doctor Who.
• 1:03:43
  I find it very distracting and I find it just.
• 1:03:46
  Except Leela and Navin, that is. But it's never, it's never
• 1:03:51
  enacted in the store. You can, it's, it's, you can,
• 1:03:55
  you can just feel it. You can just feel it.
• 1:03:57
  And that's. Intimated, not consummated.
• 1:04:02
  Exactly. And and you know, they never
• 1:04:04
  then, yeah, they never mushy or anything, but it's just there.
• 1:04:07
  You can just can just tell. And that, that's what it's that
• 1:04:09
  tension that's so wonderful. But you know what you never do
• 1:04:12
  with a will? They won't.
• 1:04:13
  They is you don't make them do it, because then the magic's
• 1:04:16
  gone. The the magic is.
• 1:04:18
  Oh my God. This is going to be the moment.
• 1:04:20
  No, no, it's not OK. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:04:25
  OK, so we're in the vault and they are finding out what they
• 1:04:27
  came for, or or at least what the other two came for.
• 1:04:31
  So PSI wants to be free of the technology, is that right?
• 1:04:34
  PSI wants to. He has.
• 1:04:36
  He has deleted his memories of his family as friends.
• 1:04:39
  He doesn't remember anybody. He wants his memories back.
• 1:04:42
  And. Sabra wants to be normal.
• 1:04:45
  She wants to be able to touch another living person without
• 1:04:48
  turning into them. I mean, imagine being able to do
• 1:04:51
  that. I could beat Shawn Carlson.
• 1:04:53
  For a time. Well, you would have to touch
• 1:04:56
  him first. That would not be a problem,
• 1:05:01
  Sarah. Sure, I hope you're not.
• 1:05:02
  Listening to that. No, I hope you are.
• 1:05:05
  That's love for you. I love this because they're we
• 1:05:10
  think, OK, they are really in trouble now and they're going to
• 1:05:14
  be, they're not even going to be fed to the teller.
• 1:05:16
  They're going to just be shot by these two goons behind them.
• 1:05:21
  I I remember thinking earlier, because I've totally forgotten
• 1:05:24
  this twist completely. Like I said, I'm so dense and I
• 1:05:27
  watch this stuff, but I don't remember thinking, well, why has
• 1:05:30
  one got a helmet on and one hasn't?
• 1:05:33
  And then it all became clear because she had to have her face
• 1:05:36
  clear so she could become her. It is a great sort of, yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Because like, Oh my God, they're like, yes.
• 1:05:46
  Because yeah, yeah. Oh, Clara.
• 1:05:51
  Clara, Clara, Clara. Do you know what am I changing
• 1:05:54
  my mind about? Clara?
• 1:05:56
  I don't know. I think I need to watch the run
• 1:05:58
  again. I'm also ambiguous about Clara,
• 1:06:02
  which is interesting, you know, because at the same time she
• 1:06:05
  annoys me tremendously because she's, she's always lying and I
• 1:06:08
  can't stand that. But at the same time, it's like
• 1:06:12
  I know this companion better than almost any other.
• 1:06:18
  But I, I hold Clara to certain standards that like, for
• 1:06:22
  example, I think she could be a bit selfish and, and, but rose
• 1:06:29
  can as well. And I love that in rose.
• 1:06:31
  So I, I, I mean, I know so many roses, you know, they're always
• 1:06:35
  thinking, what about me, you know?
• 1:06:37
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, early Rose, she's basically a Princess and I
• 1:06:41
  hate Princess who's I mean, I such a pet peeve about
• 1:06:45
  princesses there's. A few of those in Doctor Who
• 1:06:47
  found them Jemana. All right.
• 1:06:50
  Cannot but. We we found the right people,
• 1:06:52
  OK? OK, so now we know where the
• 1:06:58
  TARDIS is. Oh I'm so glad you're explaining
• 1:07:02
  the plot to me. I've forgotten half of this
• 1:07:06
  Jonathan Bailey. Man, that is a great costume
• 1:07:08
  and. And, you know, we think it's
• 1:07:12
  over. That can leave.
• 1:07:13
  And he's like, no, we can continue the mission.
• 1:07:17
  He's the doctor. He was never going to just go,
• 1:07:19
  was he? Oh, there's a wonderful shot in
• 1:07:22
  a minute where we pan across the the vault with Keith.
• 1:07:26
  Yours as is she? Is she called Calabraxos?
• 1:07:29
  Is that her? Name the woman, Yeah.
• 1:07:32
  I love that shot. And they?
• 1:07:34
  Yeah, no, go on. You know, it's great because
• 1:07:38
  it's such a complete surprise, first of all, for some.
• 1:07:40
  OK, obviously I thought it would be a man.
• 1:07:44
  Because I thought it would be Braxtel.
• 1:07:47
  The classical music, The artifacts.
• 1:07:50
  Right. Well, I didn't know about
• 1:07:51
  Braxtel when I first watched this, so first I thought it
• 1:07:54
  would be a man. And then you see her face and
• 1:07:56
  you're like, what? What?
• 1:08:00
  Look at this. This could so be Brexit, tells
• 1:08:02
  study. Yes, yes, it could be.
• 1:08:04
  Oh my God. And Cara Brexit, Yeah, it's it
• 1:08:07
  could be, but I didn't come from that.
• 1:08:10
  This is a personal message to anyone who could be listening to
• 1:08:13
  this. You know, from the Doctor Who
• 1:08:14
  production team are doubt you're listening, but just in case you
• 1:08:17
  are Miles Richardson, all right, He's still a very pretty man.
• 1:08:20
  Get him on the screen as Braxy Hill.
• 1:08:22
  On the screen, my God. I mean, we will lose our shit
• 1:08:25
  completely. I mean, there will be scenes.
• 1:08:33
  Please contain yourself, all right?
• 1:08:37
  No, I'll be screaming as well. I mean, I've been listening to
• 1:08:40
  Blacks Braxley Hill in the Gallifreel disc for 20 years.
• 1:08:44
  Like, that's madness. I still want Benny, you know.
• 1:08:48
  If you if you met him in person you would just be a puddle on
• 1:08:52
  the floor. He is.
• 1:08:54
  I just have to go to one of these ones.
• 1:08:56
  You know, I'll, I'll beat down the way get out the way you
• 1:09:00
  Novanettes. I'm going.
• 1:09:01
  Through all right. Now I did think this was a
• 1:09:05
  subtly different performance from Keely Hall, so like from
• 1:09:09
  the the other Calabraxos. Well, yes, yes, of course.
• 1:09:15
  The clones are like subservient and afraid for their skin
• 1:09:18
  basically. But she is superb.
• 1:09:20
  She is just. Doesn't she say yes?
• 1:09:23
  I'm going to have her killed, you know?
• 1:09:25
  Yes, I'm I'm I'm you know, she's fired.
• 1:09:28
  I'm I'm put. I put the used clones and and
• 1:09:31
  the incinerate every. Now and again they get
• 1:09:35
  rebellious ideas. You know you have to be firm
• 1:09:37
  with them. OK, cuckoo.
• 1:09:41
  I have too many of them ask. She's great, though I do love a
• 1:09:46
  strong woman villain in Doctor Who, like Miss Foster in
• 1:09:50
  Partners in Crime, like Diana Rigg in The Crimson Horror.
• 1:09:54
  Oh. My God, she's so crazy and
• 1:09:57
  she's. Mad and she was the wrong hands.
• 1:10:02
  The doctor is going, Malcolm, like, shut up, shut up.
• 1:10:09
  He does say shut. Up a lot, doesn't he, this
• 1:10:11
  season? Now I wouldn't like that
• 1:10:14
  because. I don't like people telling me
• 1:10:17
  to shut up. But that's only because I never
• 1:10:20
  shut up, so it's the problem. Look now, and he does this so
• 1:10:26
  well as well, He's putting together all the pieces.
• 1:10:29
  I know. And here there's this bit where
• 1:10:31
  he says, what do I know about the architect?
• 1:10:33
  I hate him. And this is when I went, oh,
• 1:10:36
  he's the architect. And look at he's overbearing,
• 1:10:39
  he's manipulative. He likes to think that he's very
• 1:10:42
  clever. And isn't that a fantastic like
• 1:10:45
  he knows himself? Who could be this obnoxious?
• 1:10:49
  Oh, why? He's so self.
• 1:10:54
  Aware. I mean, when he smiles, it is
• 1:10:58
  the most ghoulish thing. It's sort of a grimace rather
• 1:11:03
  than a smile. Although I'm going to say it
• 1:11:06
  again, but I think the the single most romantic moment in
• 1:11:10
  all of Doctor Who is the end of the Husbands of River Song when
• 1:11:13
  they're in front of those towers.
• 1:11:14
  Oh. My God, it's.
• 1:11:16
  Beautiful. I love that episode.
• 1:11:18
  I just. He just looks so at peace with
• 1:11:20
  her, doesn't it? It's lovely.
• 1:11:23
  Yeah. We love you, Peter Capaldi.
• 1:11:26
  We. Do we do?
• 1:11:28
  Absolutely. I've never met him.
• 1:11:29
  I should probably meet him at a convention one time.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah, I don't know if he's still, but you know what it's
• 1:11:35
  like. I wouldn't know what to say to
• 1:11:40
  her. I would just stare like an
• 1:11:41
  idiot. They're used to that.
• 1:11:44
  Though I have. I have.
• 1:11:45
  I have a friend who who she's younger than me and she used to
• 1:11:50
  waitress in the cafe where he was a regular and they had they
• 1:11:53
  had conversations all the time, she said.
• 1:11:55
  He is just wonderful. He's like this grandfatherly
• 1:11:59
  person he's and she just adores him.
• 1:12:02
  John Arnold that comes on this when I I did an interview for
• 1:12:07
  another podcast strangers in space with him.
• 1:12:09
  There's a planet pics and he chose a photograph.
• 1:12:12
  His son meeting Peter Capaldi. Now they waited at the filming
• 1:12:16
  location and they waited for like 5-6 hours or something like
• 1:12:20
  that, right. And just for a chance to
• 1:12:22
  possibly see him. And John said, you know, is
• 1:12:26
  there any chance just like a minute.
• 1:12:28
  And when he found out how long they'd been waiting, he came
• 1:12:31
  over. He insisted on the picture.
• 1:12:33
  He said he just got down on his hands and knees with the boy and
• 1:12:36
  he was just amazing with he just sounds like an incredible.
• 1:12:40
  He is, yeah, he is an incredible person.
• 1:12:44
  And it's a role where you have to give everything right?
• 1:12:46
  You basically lose your life when you're the doctor.
• 1:12:49
  Oh, yeah, yeah, because you're, you become a symbol.
• 1:12:53
  And he, he, I know that Capaldi took that very seriously.
• 1:12:57
  He said he stopped swearing in public because he wants a
• 1:13:00
  doctor. Of course, because he was known
• 1:13:03
  for the thick of it, wasn't it? Yeah, I've did wonderfully get a
• 1:13:08
  little bit of that you. Know my God, this man can swear.
• 1:13:11
  Yeah. Oh boy.
• 1:13:12
  That is a funny show, though. Talk about being honest.
• 1:13:20
  Oh, he looks like he's having a bit of trouble right now.
• 1:13:24
  Is he empathizing with the teller?
• 1:13:26
  I can't remember. The teller is is kind of eating
• 1:13:29
  his memories and removing the block from the worm so that he
• 1:13:32
  can remember what happened. And we just missed the moment
• 1:13:35
  where he said, Oh no, that's coming in a bit.
• 1:13:38
  So I'm not going to say no. I should certainly hope that you
• 1:13:41
  appreciate that I've held back from how phallic those eyes are
• 1:13:45
  on the teller. All right.
• 1:13:48
  That had never crossed my mind. Oh, I'm so sorry, Shamal.
• 1:13:51
  I'm really sorry. Welcome to Hamster I.
• 1:13:55
  Was wondering, I was wondering where I was going to get the
• 1:13:58
  proper. That's still to come from
• 1:14:02
  Fraser. Just wait, all right?
• 1:14:04
  Oh dear. Oh, this is nice as well.
• 1:14:07
  They pull off this trick again, don't they, in Last Christmas
• 1:14:12
  with Clara when she's the old woman at the end.
• 1:14:15
  Yes, last. Christmas, but not so it was
• 1:14:18
  when Clara was the Christmas special.
• 1:14:20
  You know, with the face huggers face.
• 1:14:23
  Huggers at the end. The thing comes off and she's
• 1:14:26
  the old woman and you think that's really her, and then it
• 1:14:29
  turns out it's another dream again and they go running off to
• 1:14:32
  the TARDIS together. But that's a beautiful scene
• 1:14:35
  because basically she's like, you know, she was, she's a
• 1:14:42
  superb villain, but she's actually not.
• 1:14:45
  It turns out she's not really a villain.
• 1:14:48
  Like she does have regret and she tries to repair.
• 1:14:51
  It's not the teller again, isn't it?
• 1:14:53
  It's not as not everything is as it seems.
• 1:14:56
  Exactly, and also people can change.
• 1:14:58
  It's not like this is you know you've you've said you've done 1
• 1:15:02
  bad thing in your life. That's it, You're cancelled
• 1:15:03
  forever. I think that would have happened
• 1:15:08
  by now. But I, I love this, I, I really
• 1:15:12
  love this because this this twist at the end, this is the
• 1:15:17
  doctor. This is who the doctor is.
• 1:15:19
  We find out all of this is because he's trying and you
• 1:15:24
  know, putting themselves in the in considerable danger for this
• 1:15:27
  is to save a species, even if it's just.
• 1:15:32
  So, Doctor Who? Is that is Doctor Who?
• 1:15:34
  That is the whole show and that is why I love showing this.
• 1:15:38
  It's one of the of the episodes I like showing to a first first
• 1:15:41
  timer. Well, because as well, it is
• 1:15:45
  just really entertaining, stylish as hell, you know, it's.
• 1:15:48
  Fantastic. Is it?
• 1:15:49
  Yeah, it's. Got a great message.
• 1:15:51
  That's great. It's great.
• 1:15:52
  Oh look, you're like Oh my. God.
• 1:15:59
  That's what Mark's like. You know, when I come home from
• 1:16:01
  work and I've been away all day, he's there going, oh, where have
• 1:16:04
  you been? No, he's not.
• 1:16:05
  He's like, oh, are you? Are you home?
• 1:16:07
  Oh great. This will be me in three weeks.
• 1:16:10
  When my when I. Not chained to the wall, I hope.
• 1:16:17
  Good grief, he doesn't listen to this Jesus.
• 1:16:23
  Christ. He will never listen to.
• 1:16:26
  This No, I'm pretty safe from partners, actually, you know,
• 1:16:31
  Thank God. Oh dear it.
• 1:16:34
  Was also very clever how you know it was like do you know
• 1:16:37
  what the most interesting thing about these teleporters is is
• 1:16:40
  that there were six of them and you're like oh right why are
• 1:16:43
  they sick we didn't even. Oh, Oh no.
• 1:16:48
  Now look at these costumes. Oh bless.
• 1:16:52
  And that's the heat. Apparently is.
• 1:16:54
  It Imagine if you were walking your dog that moment across and
• 1:16:58
  you saw those bloody great monsters.
• 1:17:02
  Jesus Christ, you'd crash your bicycle into a tree Now you
• 1:17:07
  remember what you said about how people can grow and change.
• 1:17:11
  I think it's true of all of these characters in the TARDIS
• 1:17:13
  right now. No more so than the Doctor,
• 1:17:16
  who's just found a group of friends and he's there.
• 1:17:19
  They're having a take away, they're having a laugh.
• 1:17:21
  And he'd. Save some some creatures so he's
• 1:17:23
  relaxed and happy, you know? I think Clara gets to see him in
• 1:17:27
  a different light in this episode as well, because things
• 1:17:29
  have been sort of fraught between them until this point.
• 1:17:32
  She. She's now free of.
• 1:17:35
  I mean, she's just touched the doctor and she hasn't changed.
• 1:17:37
  So let's assuming that medicine worked.
• 1:17:41
  Yeah, it's lovely. And then literally just popping
• 1:17:45
  off, dropping everybody home. She goes, no, I'm off for that
• 1:17:50
  date with that really hot Danny pink.
• 1:17:52
  All right, It's been a fun day. But, oh, he does have the line,
• 1:17:58
  doesn't he? He goes, what is it?
• 1:17:59
  Robbing a bank in space. Beat that for a date.
• 1:18:03
  Yeah, competition there. Don't tell me you're not
• 1:18:10
  jealous, Doctor. All right.
• 1:18:14
  Yeah, I think do get a bit icky, I think in the Caretaker where
• 1:18:19
  it gets really a bit nasty between.
• 1:18:23
  Yeah, I think it's exaggerated and it it's I, I don't think it
• 1:18:27
  strikes the right note in the caretaker.
• 1:18:29
  This is true. I think it's a bit because I do
• 1:18:32
  understand the friction. I do understand the the doctor's
• 1:18:35
  insecurity, but and I also understand his dislike of
• 1:18:39
  soldiers, but I think it's overwritten and it it just gets
• 1:18:44
  you, you don't understand why it's quite so unpleasant so.
• 1:18:47
  I mean, Gareth Roberts has never been known for his subtlety, but
• 1:18:51
  maybe let's not go there, right? Well.
• 1:18:53
  OK, I I I had forgotten that the hero.
• 1:18:57
  Yeah, it was his last one. I can't.
• 1:19:00
  I can't really dislike this 1 then.
• 1:19:04
  Now, Are you ready for this? Because we've watched the
• 1:19:07
  episode now we'll do the questions, then I shall ask you.
• 1:19:09
  I don't know if you know about the format here, but I am going
• 1:19:11
  to ask you for three fabulous things to recommend this
• 1:19:14
  episode. But I'll, I'll just start going
• 1:19:16
  through these questions, OK, And see what these idiots from the
• 1:19:20
  ham Pam have got for us. OK, so Michael Mills from the
• 1:19:24
  book club asks, does the highest movie format work in this
• 1:19:29
  episode? Oh, absolutely.
• 1:19:33
  Oh, it works so well. Even in 45 minutes.
• 1:19:37
  It's, it's just perfect. And it's a very good format
• 1:19:39
  because it's very snappy. You have to be quick.
• 1:19:42
  So so the the the the shortness of the episode doesn't interfere
• 1:19:47
  with a kind of storytelling. It's like a puzzle box, isn't
• 1:19:51
  it? And as we sort of explore it,
• 1:19:53
  we're getting more of the answers as we go along.
• 1:19:57
  Yeah, really clever. OK, He also asks.
• 1:19:59
  I know the answer to this because you said it in the
• 1:20:01
  episode. Where did you first encounter
• 1:20:04
  Keely Horse? Here.
• 1:20:09
  In the Bank of Chiropractors. I'm thinking he's suggesting
• 1:20:12
  maybe just go and explore a little more Keely horse.
• 1:20:15
  But now do you know this name Siha?
• 1:20:17
  I've never heard of him. Never heard.
• 1:20:21
  Of him, maybe it'd be somebody someday, he says.
• 1:20:24
  Does the twists and turns of this story make it a decent high
• 1:20:29
  story? Well, we've just answered that,
• 1:20:31
  but. I, I think it's, yeah, I think
• 1:20:33
  it was great. It's not just that it makes it
• 1:20:36
  makes it a great high story. It makes it a great Doctor Who
• 1:20:39
  high story. It is absolutely a Doctor Who
• 1:20:43
  story. It's not just a heist with the
• 1:20:46
  Doctor in it. It's just, yeah.
• 1:20:48
  What? Because that, that's what Doctor
• 1:20:50
  Who has to do, doesn't it? It's like, it's like if they
• 1:20:53
  just did a heist then it's just any old.
• 1:20:55
  Yeah, I mean, it would have been fun, but it wouldn't.
• 1:20:58
  But this is what makes this episode such a work of genius.
• 1:21:02
  Listen to this. Do you want to hear this
• 1:21:03
  egotism? Now why didn't SI join the
• 1:21:06
  TARDIS crew? Says our SI.
• 1:21:09
  The Tardis needs a sigh on board.
• 1:21:12
  I I agree that the TARDIS needs a sigh on board, but one assumes
• 1:21:16
  that now that sigh has recovered his memory of his family and
• 1:21:19
  friends, he's keen to go and see them and not die on an adventure
• 1:21:25
  with the Doctor before he's done that.
• 1:21:27
  Although he did have a nice bit of take away along the way.
• 1:21:31
  You know, when we do our heist, you know, to get Sean Carson out
• 1:21:34
  of that convention. Yeah, the Nova Knights and the
• 1:21:36
  Ham fam. Oh my God, We can have a great
• 1:21:38
  time. I believe that our sigh will
• 1:21:41
  have lost some of his memories as well, you know, but he don't
• 1:21:45
  want to know. I know what those memories are.
• 1:21:46
  He don't want them back. He says as well.
• 1:21:49
  His last question is, should Keely Hawes, very popular, have
• 1:21:54
  played this bigger? No, I don't think so at all.
• 1:21:57
  Two OK, two reasons. First, she's a bank director.
• 1:22:02
  You know, she's not being we have a lot of camp villains,
• 1:22:06
  over the top villain, Doctor Who and they're great, but not
• 1:22:08
  everybody needs to be that. And she's a bank director.
• 1:22:12
  You don't expect somebody to arrive at the position if they
• 1:22:14
  are over the top and camp on the country, they're going to be
• 1:22:18
  kind of contained. And like she does in the
• 1:22:22
  episodes yet, like she keeps them talking while she's
• 1:22:24
  thinking of how to get herself out That and it makes her more
• 1:22:28
  sinister because she looks like she looks cool as a cucumber.
• 1:22:32
  Like she's not scared. The moment she sees they have no
• 1:22:34
  weapon, she's like, oh, OK, you are in my you're in my hands in
• 1:22:38
  that case. So that's the first reason.
• 1:22:40
  And the second reason is Capaldi is playing it up in that scene,
• 1:22:44
  you know, where he goes just completely.
• 1:22:48
  He really comes it up and he goes, oh, Malcolm.
• 1:22:50
  And he does that whole thing with the I am giving you my
• 1:22:53
  phone number and stuff. You cannot have both of them
• 1:22:56
  doing that. It works because he's losing it
• 1:22:59
  and she's staying very good and like what?
• 1:23:02
  What exactly are you doing? So I think they pitched it
• 1:23:05
  perfectly. That is often a problem with
• 1:23:07
  Doctor Who, I think is sometimes actors try and go up to where
• 1:23:11
  somebody else is, and I think the best scenes are where they
• 1:23:15
  gauge it just well. The bit in, I always talk about
• 1:23:19
  the bit in Rings of Akaten, you know where Matt Smith's going.
• 1:23:21
  Take it all, baby, he's somewhere up there.
• 1:23:24
  And then Jenna Coleman just comes in and very quietly goes
• 1:23:27
  the most important leaf in human.
• 1:23:29
  It's so moving because she brings it right now.
• 1:23:33
  Well, OK, you ready for some very intelligent questions now?
• 1:23:36
  Sorry, Sir, I didn't mean that. Nathan Bottomley from Flight for
• 1:23:40
  entirety asks does this live up to its title?
• 1:23:44
  Is it a good high story? What's the yes and no questions
• 1:23:49
  guys? Come on now, try harder.
• 1:23:53
  Asking questions one-on-one. You do not ask yes or no
• 1:23:55
  questions. This is not a yes or no
• 1:23:57
  question. No, I've got a second one here.
• 1:23:59
  How does this story compare to the rest of Series 8?
• 1:24:03
  I think it's one of the best ones.
• 1:24:07
  I I think it's there. There are several in the series
• 1:24:11
  that I really rate and they're all a bit different.
• 1:24:14
  I think this one is it has the the advantage of being not only
• 1:24:19
  very well written but also very, very rewatchable It so it does.
• 1:24:26
  I think that makes it the favorite because Flatline is
• 1:24:31
  great. Flatline excellence.
• 1:24:33
  It is darker and you don't see the Doctor as much.
• 1:24:36
  So maybe you know, you know, the Doctor separates from Clara.
• 1:24:41
  I think it's a fantastic story, but seeing them together in
• 1:24:44
  action like this is just a treat.
• 1:24:47
  I love Mommy and the Orange Express as well.
• 1:24:52
  Choosing all the bangers here. You know, I think there's a lot
• 1:24:56
  of really good ones, but this one, it has a particular sparkle
• 1:24:59
  I find I really enjoy. I I can watch it and watch it
• 1:25:02
  and watch and watch it. This is a leading question now
• 1:25:05
  from Nathan, so be warned. Who is the hottest guest star in
• 1:25:09
  it and why is it Jonathan Bailey?
• 1:25:12
  Well, we don't have a lot of options, do we?
• 1:25:14
  He's like, why? Capaldi's eyebrows Come on.
• 1:25:19
  Yeah, but he said guest actor. Oh, he.
• 1:25:21
  Did otherwise I would have said of course he's Capaldi.
• 1:25:24
  We can't really go for the man with the Flathead, the teller,
• 1:25:31
  the teller. Oh, the teller.
• 1:25:33
  He looks much like Martha Alfred.
• 1:25:35
  But. He's definitely hot when he's
• 1:25:36
  sitting in that cell and. OK, we'll go with the teller.
• 1:25:42
  Oh boy, Nathan, why did you ask this?
• 1:25:44
  Do you think Mr. and Misses Teller have what it takes to
• 1:25:48
  make a go of their relationship in this difficult modern world?
• 1:25:52
  Well, didn't they drop them off on an abandoned planet so that
• 1:25:55
  they could have peace? No Hampstead Heath I believe.
• 1:26:00
  Same difference. Should anybody be on Hampstead
• 1:26:04
  Heath tomorrow, do watch out. All right, other the two tellers
• 1:26:08
  that have taken residence. Well, let's move on to John
• 1:26:11
  Arnold then, he says, is this Clara's best outfit?
• 1:26:16
  Yeah. Oh yes, I think it's the only
• 1:26:19
  time she ever wears trousers and it looks fantastic.
• 1:26:23
  I think it's really suicer. I'm going to answer this
• 1:26:26
  question for you because you've never watched it.
• 1:26:30
  Does this work as a pastiche of Hustle?
• 1:26:32
  Yes, it does. Yes.
• 1:26:33
  This is basically Hustle in space.
• 1:26:37
  His third question is, could you get more stories out of this
• 1:26:40
  concept? I think like the highest
• 1:26:41
  concept. I I'm sure a good writer could,
• 1:26:48
  but they would have to avoid repeating the same.
• 1:26:53
  You know, like you make. Comparisons, wouldn't you?
• 1:26:56
  Well, yeah, I mean, you don't want to repeat the same.
• 1:26:58
  I mean, this, this is brilliant. And it makes it very difficult
• 1:27:01
  to do something equally brilliant that is not
• 1:27:03
  derivative, you know? But there are some very good
• 1:27:07
  writers out there, so. Yeah.
• 1:27:10
  I suppose if you've said it in a different time zone in past or
• 1:27:13
  something like that. Oh, John, why don't you write it
• 1:27:16
  for us and we'll find out? David Gillespie?
• 1:27:20
  Pratt asks. Series 8 is quite divisive for
• 1:27:24
  fans, some not taken to the darker Dr. and the complex
• 1:27:27
  relationship set up with Clara and Danny.
• 1:27:30
  Time Heist relies less on those themes, so it's the most
• 1:27:35
  accessible story of Series 8. Do you think that's true?
• 1:27:39
  I agree, yeah. And is it one of the most
• 1:27:43
  interesting to revisit? Yeah, Yeah, I think so.
• 1:27:47
  I think so. It's it is light.
• 1:27:49
  It's it doesn't have kind of, it's not addressing a kind of a
• 1:27:56
  deep question like because I think, for instance, kill the
• 1:28:00
  moon brings up something quite deep that can be really talked
• 1:28:04
  about even, you know, even if you don't like the story.
• 1:28:07
  It it is, I think the the point of that is quite a deep
• 1:28:11
  discussion of responsibility and accountability and whatever.
• 1:28:14
  So I don't think Time Heist has a philosophical ethical topic
• 1:28:20
  like that, but it does have this beautiful core of who the Doctor
• 1:28:28
  is. It is somebody who saves people
• 1:28:31
  and, and even by unorthodox means.
• 1:28:33
  So yeah, I think it, I think every time you watch it, you can
• 1:28:38
  find some. Even if you're just looking at
• 1:28:40
  the clever storytelling, you can always discover new things.
• 1:28:45
  I wonder if a lot of one of my objections, some of it's time is
• 1:28:50
  there. A lot of the episodes are ones
• 1:28:54
  with big themes and it and it can be a little heavy and it is
• 1:28:58
  the ones that are just go for the entertainment jugular that I
• 1:29:02
  like the best. I've grown a real fondness for
• 1:29:04
  Robot of Sherwood, you know, just because it's it's light and
• 1:29:08
  it's frothy and it's colourful and I just think you need a bit
• 1:29:11
  of that. It's just rewatchable on those
• 1:29:14
  terms. Oh God, yes.
• 1:29:15
  I mean, I, the occasional darker story is, I think perfectly is a
• 1:29:25
  good idea because the show can do that.
• 1:29:27
  But I don't want to be watching a dark show.
• 1:29:29
  I don't want to be watching a bleak show.
• 1:29:30
  That's not why I I watch Doctor Who because it brings me joy and
• 1:29:34
  it's escapism, you know, it's escapism that is not stupid and
• 1:29:38
  that has a very strong moral core.
• 1:29:42
  When it gets to, I'm going to say the three words don't
• 1:29:45
  cremate me. I'm like, this might be airing
• 1:29:49
  too much in the other direction now.
• 1:29:51
  To be honest, I don't. I don't understand why people
• 1:29:53
  are so offended by that. I I yeah, I don't know why.
• 1:29:57
  I mean, yeah. I just don't want to be burnt
• 1:29:59
  alive going please. Don't do this to me.
• 1:30:05
  No, Why? Why does that offend me so much?
• 1:30:09
  I mean, I cremated my mother, so I don't like the thought of that
• 1:30:14
  happening to her. I of.
• 1:30:17
  Course not, but but you know, it's just.
• 1:30:20
  This it's science. Fiction.
• 1:30:22
  Yeah, but like, Daniel Knight comes on this and he said that
• 1:30:25
  his children were asking him about that afterwards and he's a
• 1:30:31
  religious man and he just didn't know how to talk about that
• 1:30:35
  topic of of what Steven Moffitt was suggesting without going
• 1:30:40
  into some like really awkward conversations.
• 1:30:43
  Yeah, I mean, I understand that. But I think there's many, many,
• 1:30:47
  many instances of things on TV that are going to cause a
• 1:30:51
  complicated or awkward conversation with with there's
• 1:30:54
  no way to. I mean, I think he had the same
• 1:30:59
  issue when that woman became the star of Bethlehem in that
• 1:31:01
  episode. As well so.
• 1:31:03
  You know, right. I mean, where do you, there
• 1:31:06
  isn't a line You can, you can go.
• 1:31:08
  And The thing is it, it is this show never, at no moment does
• 1:31:13
  this show pretend that the science is remotely realistic.
• 1:31:18
  It's, you know, they don't even try to.
• 1:31:19
  They're like, look, we're making this shit up.
• 1:31:22
  Most of us can handle it. Poor old Jason Thompson ties
• 1:31:25
  himself up in knots. I don't you've ever heard him
• 1:31:27
  get on about the science, but bless his heart because he's a
• 1:31:30
  scientist. He gets a bit wound up.
• 1:31:32
  My my boyfriend is a philosopher of science.
• 1:31:36
  I will let you imagine what it's like watching Doctor Who with
• 1:31:40
  somebody who who lectures about space-time as part of his
• 1:31:45
  professional. No.
• 1:31:46
  Why? Not doing this again.
• 1:31:49
  He lectures about space-time. Yes, yes, it's one of these
• 1:31:52
  topics and I'm like, why it was a good idea to make him more?
• 1:31:58
  Why can't he be creative consultant on the series?
• 1:32:03
  Oh no, suddenly we'll be in real science.
• 1:32:05
  It might get a bit dull if. We're talking about real
• 1:32:07
  science. I don't know about that, you
• 1:32:09
  know. I mean love.
• 1:32:10
  Time Monster and I asked him, you know, you know, the
• 1:32:15
  interstitial time thing, like, so just just to this was before
• 1:32:19
  we started dating. I was like, OK, there's this
• 1:32:22
  silly show and they made-up the silly theory, but has it ever
• 1:32:27
  been advanced? And he's like, yes, actually, it
• 1:32:29
  is a, it's like it's, it's a, it's an something they came up
• 1:32:34
  with to be able to work with some theories.
• 1:32:38
  Basically, it's like imaginary numbers.
• 1:32:40
  It's convenient to have them because it allows you to do a
• 1:32:42
  certain thing. So it it actually is a serious
• 1:32:44
  thing out there. Top Tate is not so stupid.
• 1:32:46
  Justice for the Thai monster. Yes, justice for top Tate.
• 1:32:51
  If it would be saying that tonight, well, our Fraser
• 1:32:57
  Gregory says of course he wants to start off with the biggie,
• 1:33:02
  the ultimate the question of all questions.
• 1:33:05
  Oh, dear. Quarks or crotons?
• 1:33:09
  Quarks. Oh, he'll be happy with that.
• 1:33:13
  You can't remember what the crotons are.
• 1:33:14
  I just cannot remember what they're.
• 1:33:16
  There's a reason. For that, you know they're very
• 1:33:18
  unmemorable. What about this one, then?
• 1:33:20
  Snog, marry, have their brain turned into soup?
• 1:33:25
  Clara sigh. And the teller.
• 1:33:30
  Oh. That last one's tough.
• 1:33:35
  Oh jeez, man, No, Clara. Sigh.
• 1:33:46
  The teller. Snog, marry, have their brain
• 1:33:49
  turned into soup. I know what I'd do.
• 1:33:55
  I'd snog the teller just because I could say that I did it, you
• 1:34:00
  know I would marry. Sigh.
• 1:34:03
  Oh, sorry, Clara. I'm going to turn your brain
• 1:34:05
  into marsh. I don't want to turn anybody's
• 1:34:08
  brain to marsh. I'm sorry, I I refuse.
• 1:34:11
  I refuse the premise. What?
• 1:34:13
  Who would you marry of the three?
• 1:34:16
  Sigh. Yeah.
• 1:34:18
  I would I would kill Clara within a week I think.
• 1:34:25
  Give me a few hours. Right?
• 1:34:27
  OK. And why is every question from
• 1:34:30
  him so ridiculous? Capaldi's hair.
• 1:34:32
  Sorry. Capaldi's doctor gets better the
• 1:34:36
  bigger his bouffant gets. True or false?
• 1:34:39
  His hair or his acting gets better.
• 1:34:42
  He just says gets better. It's very ambiguous, no?
• 1:34:47
  I prefer the intermediate stage, not too short and not too long.
• 1:34:52
  Series 9. Yeah, Yeah, I think so.
• 1:34:55
  I think so. On top of a tank with an
• 1:34:57
  electric guitar. Yes, I think so.
• 1:34:59
  I think that was my first introduction to this doctor and
• 1:35:01
  I thought I like him. OK.
• 1:35:05
  Oh, God, I can't believe I ought to read all this out.
• 1:35:07
  Are you ready for this, James Lark?
• 1:35:10
  Yeah. Teacher, you know.
• 1:35:12
  OK, he says. I remember finding this story
• 1:35:15
  very enjoyable, but I haven't been back to it and recall very
• 1:35:18
  little of what happens. Draw your own conclusions.
• 1:35:21
  However, one thing that sticks in my mind is that I felt Keely
• 1:35:24
  Hawes was playing what was becoming a very generic female
• 1:35:27
  Doctor Who villain, another Miss Foster or Miss Kisley or Madam
• 1:35:31
  Kavarian, essentially A businesswoman.
• 1:35:34
  Power dressed in black, Power hairstyle powered and pinned
• 1:35:38
  Power make up, Power cheekbones. What I sensed at the time was a
• 1:35:42
  limited imagination when it came to writing female villainy, and
• 1:35:47
  a cursory glance at the number of women who had written for
• 1:35:49
  knew who at this stage suggested at least one explanation.
• 1:35:53
  So my question. Is.
• 1:35:56
  Bearing in mind that I haven't seen it since and when it was
• 1:35:59
  broadcast, I was young and prone to jump into conclusions.
• 1:36:03
  Well, at least he admits that. Was this a fair judgement or a
• 1:36:07
  bit harsh? Is there anything that sets
• 1:36:10
  Keely Hawes's performance apart beyond the cheekbones?
• 1:36:14
  Might more female writers have resulted in more interesting
• 1:36:18
  female villains? And are strong business women as
• 1:36:24
  scary as Doctor Who male writers seem to believe?
• 1:36:28
  Blimey. OK.
• 1:36:31
  I don't think the women he listed are similar at all, so I
• 1:36:35
  would suggest that maybe he is not seeing the differences
• 1:36:39
  between them. Oh dear, James, you are a
• 1:36:41
  limited man. Sorry, exactly what you've been
• 1:36:44
  complaining about. Cobarian is a psychopath.
• 1:36:48
  She is completely nuts and irredeemable.
• 1:36:51
  Kisly was a child. I don't who's kisly I can.
• 1:36:56
  You know from the bells of Saint John the one who was in the
• 1:36:59
  Perkins. Exactly.
• 1:37:00
  And she was completely possessed.
• 1:37:02
  And yeah, I, I saw Cara Braxos. She, she's in the grey area.
• 1:37:11
  She's very likeable. She's personable, you know, and
• 1:37:14
  she's not a, she's not a psychopath and she's not a
• 1:37:16
  criminal even she is a, she is a bank director.
• 1:37:20
  She's probably a ruthless business person, but everything
• 1:37:23
  she has been doing is obviously perfectly legal now, OK, it's a
• 1:37:27
  fucked up legal system where you can melt somebody's brains
• 1:37:33
  before they even commit the crime.
• 1:37:35
  But she is clearly working within the legal framework and
• 1:37:38
  she's, you know, she's greedy and she by the end of it, she,
• 1:37:42
  she regrets what she, you know, the only really heinous thing
• 1:37:45
  she did was to take the sport creature into adventure.
• 1:37:49
  And at the end of her life, she regrets it and she works to undo
• 1:37:52
  it. And I don't think she's at all
• 1:37:56
  similar to the others and her performances is isn't similar.
• 1:38:00
  You're the closest comparison RC to I'm doing it again.
• 1:38:03
  Say I'm comparing again, but it's within Doctor Who is
• 1:38:07
  actually, I'm not mad when I say this.
• 1:38:09
  I hope it's Helen A from the Happiness Patrol because she's
• 1:38:14
  another slightly over the top but contained performance.
• 1:38:18
  She delivers a dollar of innovation.
• 1:38:20
  She's got a pet that she goes up to and Coos at, just like
• 1:38:25
  Calabraxos does with the teller, and she's just fabulously
• 1:38:29
  watchable in the same way as well.
• 1:38:31
  Like very different characters but in the performance.
• 1:38:33
  Yeah, different. Because again, Helena, she's a
• 1:38:36
  narcissistic megalomaniac and slightly insane.
• 1:38:41
  Fabulous. Love her.
• 1:38:44
  But I would compare more Carabraxos with Yvonne Hartman.
• 1:38:50
  Oh, go on. Because she is.
• 1:38:53
  So, you know. Oh my God.
• 1:38:59
  Blank. Let me help you.
• 1:39:01
  What are you trying to? What's the name of the bloody,
• 1:39:04
  bloody Torchwood? Torchwood.
• 1:39:07
  Jesus, I'm getting really worried about my memory.
• 1:39:09
  That's the reason you forgot that as well.
• 1:39:13
  Words just leave my head. So because Ivonne Hartman, she's
• 1:39:17
  she is very she's a very nice person.
• 1:39:20
  She's very personable. She knows all her employees
• 1:39:22
  names. You know, you kind of like I
• 1:39:26
  like you and and you know, she's not pretending to be nice.
• 1:39:29
  She is genuinely trying to be a warm etcetera.
• 1:39:33
  And then she says something and then you realize her politics
• 1:39:36
  are absolutely horrific. Does that make her a bad guy?
• 1:39:41
  She's like, she wants to bring back Empire, but at the same
• 1:39:43
  time she care, she really clearly cares for people around
• 1:39:47
  her. And it's like, so, so they're
• 1:39:49
  both in this category of people who are like, well, you cannot
• 1:39:52
  call them criminals. You cannot call them.
• 1:39:56
  Well, they're not monsters in in that sense, are they villains?
• 1:40:00
  And it depends on what your moral framework.
• 1:40:03
  Is where you sit. And you can think they are
• 1:40:07
  completely on the wrong side of history and at the same time you
• 1:40:12
  you like them as a person. You know, I can't dislike either
• 1:40:16
  of them because I think they're, they're very personable, you
• 1:40:19
  know, and, you know, we could probably have a cup of tea
• 1:40:22
  together and gossip and have a good time.
• 1:40:25
  And at the same time, I would be like, I really don't like how
• 1:40:27
  you're handling this or that, you know?
• 1:40:30
  So I think they're very interesting.
• 1:40:32
  It's a weird conflict, isn't it? When like, you know, you must
• 1:40:37
  have known people and you're like, I certainly have where
• 1:40:39
  I've really loved them. And then they'll say one thing
• 1:40:42
  where our politics are so misaligned.
• 1:40:44
  And I'm like, Christ is so. Problematic.
• 1:40:48
  But that's how people are in real life.
• 1:40:50
  It's not like you're either pure.
• 1:40:52
  No, you're not. And and by the way, the, the,
• 1:40:55
  the criteria for what counts as being on the on the right side
• 1:41:03
  of history changes every few years or so.
• 1:41:05
  You know, it's like a few years from now, maybe you'll be
• 1:41:11
  cancelled for having every eaten meat in your life.
• 1:41:15
  You know, I mean, I don't eat meat, but I can see this coming.
• 1:41:17
  And so it makes no sense, this kind of thing.
• 1:41:20
  And I found these characters very interesting because you are
• 1:41:23
  conflicted about them. You can't put them as bad guy,
• 1:41:28
  good guy. I don't know if I should love
• 1:41:29
  them or dislike them or what. And that that is what makes it
• 1:41:33
  fun. It's why it's why, and I talked
• 1:41:36
  about this recently on a book club, it's why I really dislike
• 1:41:40
  keyboard warriors that go after people because the suggestion
• 1:41:44
  seems to be that they are Lily white and they don't have a
• 1:41:47
  problematic fault and just we all do, right?
• 1:41:50
  We all do. The purity crusades?
• 1:41:52
  No, thank you, You know. We're all a bit more interesting
• 1:41:57
  than that. Exactly.
• 1:41:59
  People are interesting and complex and you have to.
• 1:42:02
  Within television, that just that is the gold, right?
• 1:42:06
  It's when you like that person, but there is a conflict.
• 1:42:10
  Yeah, you, you write a character who is not a facile this or
• 1:42:15
  that. So I disagree that the female
• 1:42:19
  villains are not diverse. And you know, and now we've had
• 1:42:24
  Jinx Monsoon, who is of course of nature onto her.
• 1:42:29
  You know, it's like a whole category onto herself.
• 1:42:31
  And at the end of that, well, for instance, this is not from
• 1:42:35
  the TV, but in Gallifrey you have Darken, who is probably the
• 1:42:39
  most hail. Oh.
• 1:42:40
  My. God, I mean, I've never hated,
• 1:42:43
  you know, I've never hated a Doctor Who character as much
• 1:42:46
  until Conrad Clark came along. And he, he definitely takes the
• 1:42:50
  cake. But you know, so I think we've
• 1:42:52
  had a whole range, but I I think maybe some men cannot really see
• 1:42:59
  this differences between women and they need they need them to
• 1:43:03
  be much starker. No, no, no fans.
• 1:43:05
  James Lark. But I I think maybe it's the
• 1:43:09
  yeah, maybe check your own bio. Are you listening, James Lark?
• 1:43:14
  All right, OK. This has become about you now.
• 1:43:18
  That said, I would, you know, I would welcome more female
• 1:43:20
  writers writing writing women. I regret that we didn't have a
• 1:43:24
  female writer for Jodie's Doctor, for instance, because I
• 1:43:27
  think it would have made a difference.
• 1:43:29
  There was quite a few female writers in that time.
• 1:43:32
  Rosa was written by a woman. Can you hear me?
• 1:43:37
  The Haunting of Villa di Adarti, They were all written by women.
• 1:43:42
  But now we go way off topic. But that's why I think some
• 1:43:48
  people have issues with some of the companions in that time,
• 1:43:51
  because they are portrayed as being very good people, so are
• 1:43:56
  not flawed people, you know? And I, I, I quite like that
• 1:44:00
  because I like the performances, but it is less, it is less
• 1:44:04
  interesting to watch sometimes. Yeah.
• 1:44:07
  You know, I didn't connect with that period and I, I found them
• 1:44:12
  all very forget about the companions from that period, you
• 1:44:16
  know. I have got two more people that
• 1:44:20
  have questions for you here. So our Kieran Pell from the book
• 1:44:23
  club says if you you if you were to set another story around the
• 1:44:29
  Bank of Carabraxos, what would you do with it?
• 1:44:33
  He says. I reckon a good comedy story is
• 1:44:36
  in there about the Doctor needed to take out a loan and having
• 1:44:39
  trouble proving his identity, causing a wild goose chase
• 1:44:43
  across the universe for driver's licence or a passport.
• 1:44:48
  I'd watch that if it was Peter Capaldi.
• 1:44:52
  How do I? Prove who I am.
• 1:44:55
  Yeah, that's a good question. But to answer it properly I will
• 1:44:59
  need to go away and really think about it, because basically I'd
• 1:45:02
  have to come up with a really good story.
• 1:45:04
  Right, Kieran, when I put this episode out, I'm going to send a
• 1:45:07
  message to Jumana and say right, now's the time to put it
• 1:45:11
  underneath in the tweets, OK? Although a quick what comes to
• 1:45:15
  mind is like just getting a mortgage would be an adventure
• 1:45:19
  of its own I think for the doctor.
• 1:45:24
  Having to deal with a bag at all I think would be.
• 1:45:29
  Oh, that would be. OK, well the last questions here
• 1:45:32
  come from Daniel Rawlsley and he has got, I think it's one
• 1:45:37
  question with three sub questions.
• 1:45:39
  Let's just see how this goes. Steve Thompson and Stephen Moffy
• 1:45:43
  are both collaborators on Sherlock, which at the time was
• 1:45:46
  often thought out as Doctor Who's snappy younger cousin.
• 1:45:50
  Like Sherlock, Time Heist is a puzzle box full of mysteries,
• 1:45:54
  misdirection and narrative trickery.
• 1:45:57
  We've a smartly tailored anti hero who has razor sharp
• 1:46:00
  intellect and doesn't really understand human emotions.
• 1:46:04
  One in Doctor Who terms. What does it mean to have an
• 1:46:08
  anti hero as your leading man? And do they get the balance
• 1:46:11
  right? Why?
• 1:46:15
  Why does he call Doctor an anti hero?
• 1:46:18
  Because he doesn't behave the way he would like him to I.
• 1:46:21
  Think so, yeah. Yeah, so sorry that doesn't
• 1:46:24
  we've. Already said he's heroic in
• 1:46:25
  this. He sets them free at the end,
• 1:46:27
  yeah. Exactly. 2 Doesn't Clara look
• 1:46:34
  lovely? There's a big focus on her this
• 1:46:38
  season. Which episodes are the ones you
• 1:46:41
  feel the character or Jenna Coleman is at her best?
• 1:46:54
  How shall we define at her best though?
• 1:46:59
  I mean, I, I went straight to kill the moon.
• 1:47:01
  That was where I was. I just think she's electrifying
• 1:47:04
  at the end of that. I mean, he her acting is
• 1:47:07
  phenomenal, but I think she's being a little breath at the end
• 1:47:10
  of that. Get in your bloody TARDIS all
• 1:47:13
  right? Piss off.
• 1:47:15
  Well, you know, like she she's been, she's been stamping her
• 1:47:17
  foot and demanding to be the Doctor for all these episodes.
• 1:47:20
  And then when she's handed the chance, she throws a tantrum.
• 1:47:23
  I've never heard that reading on that one before.
• 1:47:26
  Yeah, that's my it's like, hello.
• 1:47:29
  What do you want, girl? I suppose if we're seeing her as
• 1:47:32
  a character at her best flat line, she is the Doctor in that
• 1:47:36
  one. You're good at that line.
• 1:47:37
  Yes, true. I mean, look, she's very good in
• 1:47:40
  a lot of things, but it depends like if you.
• 1:47:49
  Yeah, let's see flat line because she she really is.
• 1:47:52
  It's the, you know, she is the doctor in that one.
• 1:47:55
  And I think it kind of, it's the flip.
• 1:47:57
  It's kind of the opposite of Kill the Moon and that, OK, this
• 1:48:01
  time she does it properly, even when it demands being a bit
• 1:48:04
  ruthless and just doing things. She just gets on with it this
• 1:48:08
  time without being a little girl about it.
• 1:48:11
  So yeah, I would say that. I'd also say that I think her
• 1:48:16
  depiction of grief in Dark Water in the first half of that
• 1:48:19
  episode, it's extraordinary because it's so underplayed.
• 1:48:24
  Oh, it's. Fantastic.
• 1:48:25
  It's fantastic. And even though I I hate what
• 1:48:27
  she did, how she betrayed the Doctor, that scene with them,
• 1:48:33
  it's just I think it's the best scene possibly in the entire
• 1:48:36
  show. It's just incredible scene,
• 1:48:39
  incredibly enacted. I think it's phenomenal.
• 1:48:43
  A bit with her Gran in the kitchen as well, Where the
• 1:48:46
  gran's going, You know, it was a it was a terrible thing.
• 1:48:49
  And she goes, no, no, it wasn't. It was boring.
• 1:48:51
  It was, it was mundane. Oh, it's just it's Doctor Who
• 1:48:56
  unlike anything else that episode.
• 1:48:58
  Yeah. Well, his last question is, and
• 1:49:01
  we have covered this, what's your favorite heist films?
• 1:49:06
  I well ocean 11. I haven't seen Ocean's 12, Ocean
• 1:49:12
  Thursday. I think I've watched Ocean's 12
• 1:49:16
  and then there's Ocean's 8, which is the women's version.
• 1:49:21
  What, they only got 8 women in? Yes, yes.
• 1:49:26
  But I always go back to Ocean 11 because it had that.
• 1:49:30
  It was just perfect. Yeah, it was great.
• 1:49:33
  Well, that's the end of our questions now.
• 1:49:35
  I wanted some questions for you because I just wanted a big warm
• 1:49:38
  sort of hug doing your first one from the hand.
• 1:49:40
  Fab. And obviously they are fabulous.
• 1:49:44
  I doubt, even though we have spent sort of two hours talking
• 1:49:47
  about this episode now, could you please just condense down
• 1:49:50
  your thoughts into three fabulous reasons to to recommend
• 1:49:55
  Time Heist to anyone listening? OK, one, it is incredibly
• 1:50:00
  satisfying on every level, like the story, the visuals, the
• 1:50:03
  music, the the character interaction.
• 1:50:08
  It's just, and of course this beautiful resolution that comes
• 1:50:11
  as a twist and that is just so heartwarming.
• 1:50:13
  So I think just it is very rewatchable story and it is
• 1:50:17
  newbie friendly, which does not happen often.
• 1:50:22
  So that's my first 1/2. The doctor having this this kind
• 1:50:32
  of one off team that is very X-Men like and at the same time
• 1:50:37
  Ocean 11 like I think it's so much fun and everybody has
• 1:50:41
  something to do and yeah, it's just it's great.
• 1:50:46
  And three. It's hard when you're on the
• 1:50:49
  spotlight there, isn't it? We I would say, what's her name,
• 1:50:58
  Keely Hose, who's playing 2 characters at least 2 because I
• 1:51:03
  think there's, there's more than one clue, but we see just one.
• 1:51:06
  Yeah. So she's playing 2 characters.
• 1:51:08
  She she's, she's amazing. I she is fantastic.
• 1:51:11
  She looks fantastic. But also she is such a good for
• 1:51:14
  it to the to the doctor. And we kind of we were talking
• 1:51:17
  over the scenes. So we didn't see when she when
• 1:51:20
  he tells her, you know, one day you will be old, you know, you,
• 1:51:25
  you might want to call me someday.
• 1:51:26
  And and she says, oh, you'll be dead.
• 1:51:28
  And he says you'll be old. We'll get on famously.
• 1:51:31
  You know, they the the way they bounce off each other, it's just
• 1:51:36
  phenomenal. I just absolutely love it.
• 1:51:40
  And I'm going to throw in three I'm.
• 1:51:42
  But they're kind of a little general, but only because so
• 1:51:49
  it's the writer, Stephen, is it Stephen Greenhorn, the writer,
• 1:51:53
  the director, Douglas McKinnon and Murray Gold doing the music.
• 1:51:58
  And the reason I'm choosing those 3 as a very general thing
• 1:52:00
  is I think they all got the know of what this episode was.
• 1:52:06
  They had to execute it in a very particular way for it to come
• 1:52:11
  off. It had to have buckets of style.
• 1:52:14
  And that's definitely there in the music as well.
• 1:52:17
  You know, it had to be visually sumptuous.
• 1:52:18
  It had to have pace to it and I think they got it absolutely
• 1:52:23
  right. But extra points to the writer
• 1:52:26
  because previously he wrote a bit of a dog and I think in
• 1:52:33
  Steven Moffett hands he created this really fun puzzle box of an
• 1:52:39
  episode with lots of surprises with great characters and tons
• 1:52:44
  happening in it. So yeah, bravo to all three of
• 1:52:46
  you. You pulled off Doctor Who's
• 1:52:48
  Hustle or Doctor Who's Ocean. 11.
• 1:52:53
  Yamada, thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me.
• 1:52:57
  It's so rare for me to be this positive about you must have a
• 1:53:03
  good effect on me. I'm going to ask you a difficult
• 1:53:07
  a difficult question now, though, before we out, and that
• 1:53:10
  is if you'd be happy to come back.
• 1:53:12
  I'd love to have you back again. I mean, we've loved like like
• 1:53:16
  drains tonight and but you've really made me think a couple of
• 1:53:19
  times as well. I like being challenged, you
• 1:53:22
  know, you've challenged me a couple of times, like people
• 1:53:25
  usually don't because I'm so bloody loud.
• 1:53:29
  Where are we going next? Well, we have, OK, well, we have
• 1:53:36
  two possibilities that we discussed.
• 1:53:39
  What is Gallifrey? We will definitely go there, I
• 1:53:46
  promise. And the other is a novel,
• 1:53:50
  Hunter's Moon. Yes.
• 1:53:53
  Now why this one? I've never read this one.
• 1:53:56
  It's I, I love it. I love it.
• 1:53:58
  You know, I, I originally, I started basically, well,
• 1:54:03
  reading, listening to Doctor Who novels from Audible.
• 1:54:06
  And this one was highly rated. So it's one of the first I
• 1:54:08
  listened to and it's really good.
• 1:54:10
  I've really listened to it several times.
• 1:54:12
  I think it's it's such a good 11th Doctor story.
• 1:54:15
  Paul Finch, is that the writer? That's right.
• 1:54:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:54:19
  Well, I mean, I'm very happy to get reading that if you are
• 1:54:23
  happy to to explore a novel and just very quickly, where can
• 1:54:28
  people find you online? I mean a lot of people listen to
• 1:54:31
  this will know this already, but in case.
• 1:54:34
  OK, so mostly I'm on bluesky@majnuna.com, which is my
• 1:54:39
  my my website as well. So MAJNOU na.com.
• 1:54:45
  I'm also on Instagram at Juan Majnuna.
• 1:54:48
  Although these tend to be my kind of professional, well,
• 1:54:50
  professional like my art and stuff.
• 1:54:54
  I am a for comics and Doctor Gustav Instagram at Jumana draws
• 1:55:00
  in one word I'm. Going to have to put a link to
• 1:55:03
  that. And people can find you on quite
• 1:55:09
  a few other podcasts as well, can't they?
• 1:55:11
  Yes, yes, I'm doing the rounds. It's great.
• 1:55:15
  Everybody here, Oh my God, it's somebody good, right?
• 1:55:18
  Book them quick. It has been a genuine, genuine
• 1:55:24
  delight tonight. Thank you so and it's it's past
• 1:55:28
  11:00. So thanks for your patience as.
• 1:55:30
  Well, no problem. No worries.
• 1:55:32
  Great. So I hope to talk to you again
• 1:55:33
  soon, Joe and. I'll out it there.
• 1:55:36
  I'll I'll end the episode right there.
• 1:55:38
  Man, how easy for that.