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A Global Peace Leader on Turning Fear Into Action When Democracy Feels Fragile · The Uplifters

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  SPEAKER_03: It's jointhetribe.com, T-R-Y-B.com.
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  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the Uplifters podcast,
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  where every week I have the great privilege of talking to a
• 1:25
  woman in midlife who's
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: doing big,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: brave things and sharing her journey so that we can all do big,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: brave things.
• 1:33
  It's Women's History Month,
• 1:34
  so each week we are featuring a woman who is making history.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: But while we celebrate the women in the past who've made history,
• 1:43
  it's a reminder for all of us that we have the capability to
• 1:46
  make history right
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  SPEAKER_03: now.
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  SPEAKER_03: This week,
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  SPEAKER_03: we're going to talk about,
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  SPEAKER_03: you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: little tiny stuff like democracy,
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  because I kind of think it's something I grew up taking for
• 1:56
  granted a little bit.
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  SPEAKER_03: But I'm learning more and more that it's a living,
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  SPEAKER_03: breathing thing that requires protection,
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  SPEAKER_03: maybe even mothering in a sense.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's like, who better to do it than the mothers?
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  SPEAKER_03: Today's guest is somebody who lives right at that intersection.
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  SPEAKER_03: Her name is Carrie Kennedy.
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  She is a global peace leader with more than two decades of
• 2:24
  experience advancing
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: human rights,
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  SPEAKER_03: protecting our civic spaces,
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  SPEAKER_03: and responding to
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  SPEAKER_03: political violence all around the world.
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  She currently serves as the International Associate General
• 2:38
  Secretary at the
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  SPEAKER_03: American Friends Service Committee,
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: where she oversees peace building.
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  SPEAKER_03: I just think like,
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  I don't know that I've ever heard a more powerful title and it
• 2:49
  literally gives me
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  SPEAKER_03: chills as I say it.
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  SPEAKER_03: And not just because I'm wearing a tank top and a snowy day.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  She is also responsible for overseeing humanitarian response in
• 3:01
  times of crisis and
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  specifically migration programs across four regions and more
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  than 20 country
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  SPEAKER_03: offices.
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  She's been a national voice on humanitarian crises and
• 3:13
  democratic resilience,
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  SPEAKER_03: appearing on CNN,
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  SPEAKER_03: Al Jazeera English,
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  SPEAKER_03: and NPR's Here and Now.
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  She writes about authoritarianism,
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  repression,
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  and how communities build resilience.
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  SPEAKER_03: Here's why she's here today, specifically.
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  SPEAKER_03: As you know,
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  SPEAKER_03: if you've been listening for a while,
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  SPEAKER_03: most of our guests are nominated by previous guests,
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  SPEAKER_03: but this one is mine.
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  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
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  I asked Carrie to be on the show after being introduced to her
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  work in a very local
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  SPEAKER_03: way,
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  SPEAKER_03: despite all of the global work that she does.
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  SPEAKER_03: Recently,
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  a beloved member of our community was seized by ICE and the
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  entire community was
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  SPEAKER_03: shaken.
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  SPEAKER_03: But then Carrie...
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  SPEAKER_03: And a couple of other women stepped forward,
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  SPEAKER_03: not just with outrage,
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  SPEAKER_03: like so many of us were feeling,
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  SPEAKER_03: but with strategy and not just with compassion,
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  SPEAKER_03: which certainly there was an immense amount,
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  SPEAKER_03: but also clarity.
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  SPEAKER_03: She brought us together as a community.
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  SPEAKER_03: She galvanized energy and
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  SPEAKER_03: In forces that held power and influence,
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  she engaged the media and she translated our collective fear
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  into collective
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  SPEAKER_03: action.
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  She kept us motivated and moving forward by creating a sense of
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  belief and engagement.
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  And what I witnessed there was just one example of something
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  that's happening all
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  SPEAKER_03: over the world.
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  SPEAKER_03: It's when a woman understands the mechanisms of change.
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  It's when she understands how to bring the forces together in a
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  state of activation
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  SPEAKER_03: to create change and to create hope.
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  This was led by one person,
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  and that person literally could be any one of us.
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  Carrie holds the knowledge and the wisdom,
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  but she is,
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  I hope,
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  a template for the rest of us.
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  Because in a rare story of good news,
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  our neighbor was released from custody.
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  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
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  SPEAKER_03: So exciting.
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  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Carrie.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
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  SPEAKER_03: So exciting.
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  SPEAKER_03: So huge.
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  And it is with great gratitude,
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  but also great optimism and maybe some pragmatism.
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  SPEAKER_03: that I welcome you, Carrie, to the Uplifters podcast.
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  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being here.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
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  SPEAKER_02: That was so generous and lovely, and I really appreciate it.
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad that we were connected.
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  SPEAKER_02: The wonderful thing about Roberto's case was that I know how to organize,
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  SPEAKER_02: so I could organize quickly,
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  SPEAKER_02: but there were at least three to four other women who...
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  enabled me to be able to mobilize the community because we had
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  a mayor who set up a GoFundMe.
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  I have a friend who gave me a list of media contacts,
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  local media contacts all over New Jersey.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I wrote the press releases.
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  SPEAKER_02: She got me these lists of media contacts.
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  We had another person who was connected to Indivisible and
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  local community groups
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  SPEAKER_02: that blasted these vigils out.
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  SPEAKER_02: So it does take all of us.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it was all women.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yay, women.
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  SPEAKER_02: Really did show up.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it does, you know, in this moment in time,
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  We really do need to stand for our values together and mobilize
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  whenever we see
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  something that is an injustice or that we don't think that is
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  the democracy that we
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  SPEAKER_02: want to live in.
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  SPEAKER_02: It really does take ordinary people, everyday moms and not superheroes.
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  SPEAKER_02: It takes all of us to stand up and collectively act.
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  SPEAKER_02: So thrilled to be here.
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  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
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  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_03: There's so much I want to talk about in this,
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  SPEAKER_03: but let's start with your point about these women coming together.
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  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things we know is that women in my life,
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  as much as we get this story that we're past peak and beyond
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  relevance and impact,
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  SPEAKER_03: the truth is neurologically,
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  we are primed for impact and we are better resourced at this
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  stage of life than at
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  SPEAKER_03: any other
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  SPEAKER_03: And your story there,
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  SPEAKER_03: I think,
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  is a really powerful example of this because we are capable of
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  rallying not just
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  SPEAKER_03: our own knowledge,
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  SPEAKER_03: wisdom,
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  SPEAKER_03: and experience,
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  SPEAKER_03: but also our networks and of our tools for collaboration.
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  SPEAKER_03: So you've been at this a really long time.
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  SPEAKER_03: You've spent your entire career doing this work.
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  How do you lead this work differently as a midlife woman than
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  you did maybe in your 20s?
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  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a really good question.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I think that I know my power and my strength.
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  I don't apologize for anything at this point in time in my
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  life,
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  in my career.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I can tap into, as you said, vast networks of people, of resources.
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  SPEAKER_02: I think the
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  SPEAKER_02: For maybe in my 20s, I would be less collaborative.
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  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'd want to go out alone or maybe I'd hesitate about a decision.
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  SPEAKER_02: Now,
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  SPEAKER_02: with Roberto's example,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  I saw an issue and I immediately acted and mobilized people
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  together to immediate
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  SPEAKER_02: act.
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  SPEAKER_02: There's no second guessing.
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  SPEAKER_02: They're seeing what needs to be done and then just mobilizing.
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  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, we have this experience to do that.
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  SPEAKER_02: I've done that in earlier cases with the PAC.
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  So I do a lot of global work,
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  but I've also tried to bring that work home to the United
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  States.
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  SPEAKER_02: And so 20 years ago,
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  I was in Afghanistan training women members of parliament
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  during an election where
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  SPEAKER_02: they just opened the seats for women members of parliament.
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  SPEAKER_02: So
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  SPEAKER_02: And women were being threatened.
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  We were moving from safe house to safe house every day to do
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  these trainings
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  SPEAKER_02: because most of the women had thought was issued against them.
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  SPEAKER_02: So,
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  SPEAKER_02: but it was a time where Americans were,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: promoting democracy overseas and were saying,
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  SPEAKER_02: we're going to stand with you.
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  SPEAKER_02: We're going to stand for women's empowerment.
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  SPEAKER_02: And when I was leaving, so they had the election.
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  SPEAKER_02: It was great.
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  SPEAKER_02: They had 29, I think at that time, 29% of women in elected office.
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  SPEAKER_02: We at that point had like 26 or 27.
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  So women running at the threat of death in Afghanistan had more
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  women in elected
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  SPEAKER_02: office than we had in the United States.
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  SPEAKER_02: And when I left, you know, I said, what can I do to support you?
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  SPEAKER_02: And they said, you know, go home and get more women elected.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I came home and did that and started a pack.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, as the years go on, I've just... But it took time.
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  SPEAKER_02: I moved to New Jersey from Pennsylvania, started a pack here.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I think I've learned through the years that...
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  SPEAKER_02: You know,
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  SPEAKER_02: you just have to see wherever you see an issue that concerns you,
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  SPEAKER_02: you just have to do what you can to remedy that.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it could be big, it could be small.
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  SPEAKER_02: Pack, you know, is local.
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  It's,
• 9:46
  you know,
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  raises a few hundred thousand dollars,
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  both of those packs,
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  but it's something.
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  SPEAKER_02: And it means that I'm moving into action,
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  which is like the thing that I've gotten better and better at
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  through the decades.
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  SPEAKER_02: is to where before I might ponder, what might I do?
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  SPEAKER_02: And I might spend a lot of time thinking about it.
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  SPEAKER_02: I know I really ask.
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  SPEAKER_02: I say, okay, I'm going to test something and then I'm okay with failure.
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  SPEAKER_02: If I fail, that's okay.
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to learn and I'll revise.
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  SPEAKER_02: But I...
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  really think that I used to have a much more kind of critical
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  hesitancy about,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
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  SPEAKER_02: thinking through all of the options and what could possibly go wrong.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have that in... Maybe once I hit 50, that's gone.
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  SPEAKER_02: I hope so for all of us.
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  SPEAKER_03: But I don't actually think that's the case, right?
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  I do think,
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  you know,
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  research shows that we do have a greater sense of identity,
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  certainty.
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  SPEAKER_03: We know who we are, to your point about like acting from our values and
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  SPEAKER_03: By 65, our identity certainty is pretty well stabilized, right?
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  SPEAKER_03: So that increases up to 65.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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  And that is why I think certainly we see more people become
• 10:49
  politically active and
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  SPEAKER_03: engaged in second half of life.
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  SPEAKER_03: Also, because of course, there's
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: resources.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's more resources.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's less caregiving energy being spent.
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  SPEAKER_03: And so it's a good time for it.
• 11:03
  And I think there are actually,
• 11:06
  we joke like,
• 11:08
  you give fewer fucks in the second half of life.
• 11:10
  And I think what I'm hearing you distinguish is we actually
• 11:12
  maybe give more fucks
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  SPEAKER_03: about some things and fewer fucks about other things.
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  SPEAKER_02: You summarize that absolutely perfectly.
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  SPEAKER_02: Yes,
• 11:22
  there is so much that just doesn't bother me or I won't give
• 11:25
  any emotional space to
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: anymore,
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  SPEAKER_02: which I may have,
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  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: a decade ago or two decades ago.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I really know what matters to me.
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  And I don't hesitate now to act when I see that there's an
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  issue that will affect
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  SPEAKER_02: my family,
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  SPEAKER_02: my community,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: myself,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: women,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: America,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: global democracy.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it is really a honing in on like, I know what's important.
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  SPEAKER_02: I know when I need to like act.
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  SPEAKER_02: And I know what my strengths and skill sets are.
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  SPEAKER_02: I've spent a decade organizing,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: defending democracy,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: defending human rights,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: and building peace in authoritarian contexts.
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  SPEAKER_02: So I know what I know.
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  SPEAKER_02: Like, I know how to mobilize.
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  SPEAKER_02: I know how to support human rights defenders.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I know how to build peace.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know how to do quiet diplomacy.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when I see a space where my skills add value,
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  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to jump in right away without hesitancy.
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  SPEAKER_02: If I see, I might not, because there's, we are, you
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: In midlife, we have so many connections and resources.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to do everything.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I might not jump into a space where I don't have the right skill set,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: but I might tackle a friend to say,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: there's a problem.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Can you address this?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is, it's really not trying to do everything.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, that's, I think I'm really leaning into where I'm strong.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: where I'm experienced, where I can mobilize quickly.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you know, you're always learning and you're always doing.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just was looking up like, how do I get better at Spanish and French?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because so many people are calling me.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: I speak the two most random languages in the world besides English,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Tongan and Tetum,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: which like only a million other people speak in the world.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: But so many people are calling me in Spanish right now.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, my God, my high school Spanish is not keeping up.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I am trying to expand my skills,
• 13:07
  but it's always in service of what it is that I want to
• 13:10
  accomplish in the world and
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: the impact that I want to have in my community.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Have you always known what your strengths and your purpose were?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's so funny because I have five brothers.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have three half brothers, two brothers, a twin and a younger brother.
• 13:26
  And we grew up in,
• 13:27
  you know,
• 13:28
  a smallish house in New Jersey,
• 13:30
  in Union,
• 13:30
  New Jersey.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I have always been a little fiery.
• 13:34
  And I was always a peace builder because you had to have your
• 13:38
  voice heard in a
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: family with five boys.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there was always fighting in this small space.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I was always in the middle trying to break up fights.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: which is funny.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I do think that I knew at a young age that I was, yes, I did know.
• 13:53
  And,
• 13:54
  you know,
• 13:54
  when I was three,
• 13:55
  I wanted to be the first woman president.
• 13:56
  Like,
• 13:57
  you know,
• 13:57
  so I had a goal of impact in the world that has continued.
• 14:04
  And then I went into the Peace Corps right after college and
• 14:06
  lived on a tiny,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: tiny little island in the South Pacific.
• 14:09
  And then just continued on that trajectory of building peace
• 14:13
  and trying to create a
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: better world.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so interesting.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's
• 14:17
  somewhat unusual for somebody to have such a clear and
• 14:22
  consistent through line.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 14:24
  And I've had what I call like thunderbolt moments where it's
• 14:27
  like a redirection.
• 14:29
  So I was in the Peace Corps and then I came back and moved to
• 14:32
  New York and did some
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: work in economic development,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: which was,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: a little bit still in that international development space,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: but a little bit more kind of economically focused.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then 9-11 happened.
• 14:44
  And I was actually at Rikers Island that day doing a training
• 14:48
  for youth offenders.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And my twin brother was in the North Tower,
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: which was the first tower that was hit and the second one to fall.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And he was a few floors below where the plane hit.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: So he did survive, but it was an awful day.
• 15:04
  And I had a detective from Brooklyn drive me across the
• 15:08
  Brooklyn Bridge as people
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: are streaming covered in soot.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm trying to find him.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: He was a runner,
• 15:14
  and you can see him when he comes out on some of the video
• 15:17
  footage with all of the
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: debris from the building collapsing behind him.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then that was a moment where I said,
• 15:23
  I have to understand why we have political violence and what
• 15:28
  would cause these mass
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: atrocities and how do I stop it?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: it's,
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've had those moments and the same thing with Afghanistan where I've,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: really said,
• 15:38
  how do we make sure we have a more unified democracy and that
• 15:42
  we are walking that
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: talk on the United States that we,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was going as an international person overseas all the time,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: building democracy,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: talking about human rights,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: women's inclusion,
• 15:52
  but I'm not seeing it play out in the same robust way in the
• 15:54
  United States.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: So how,
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a few moments in my career where I've kind of had a North Star,
• 16:01
  but then have had these moments that really have focused me and
• 16:06
  continued on my
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: path.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost like the funnel just narrows a little bit.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great way to describe it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's so interesting to me listening to you because,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: going to this idea of identity certainty,
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: you seem like someone who
• 16:24
  from a very early age was clear on your value system and your
• 16:28
  beliefs and your
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: purpose and have just continuously stepped into that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: And what that seems to have enabled you to do that is actually,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: pretty rare and remarkable is
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: is to,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: in times of great uncertainty,
• 16:44
  we've heard you say this over and over again already in your
• 16:47
  storytelling,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: in times of uncertainty and sort of like really big,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: messy,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: murky problems,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: you find a way to translate all of the uncertainty into action.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: which I think is what we all want to do.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: We want to engage.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: A life without purpose really, truly feels meaningless.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so we all want to have a positive impact.
• 17:12
  Nobody wants to sit in their house all day and feel overwhelmed
• 17:17
  and victimized.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yet, without a clear path, that's what happens to so many people.
• 17:23
  And so I'm trying to sort of get my head around for all of us
• 17:28
  how we might begin to
• 17:30
  translate this sense of collective overwhelm from a response of
• 17:35
  inaction to one of
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: small action.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that question so much.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And because that is...
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: The way that we change the context in which we're living,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: if there is authoritarian drift,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: if there is regression of rights,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: there is this number,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: this number 3.5,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: which Erica Chen,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: these scholars,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Erica Chenwith and Maria Stefan,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: who are scholars on civil resistance,
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: That nonviolence resistance is the way,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: the most effective strategy for change,
• 18:25
  and that you need 3.5% of the population in a sustained fashion
• 18:29
  to do small acts
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: that add up to collective energy.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think people think when you,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: if you think about defending democracy,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: or if you think about like authoritarian context,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: people think,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: there's going to be a violent election over,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: that's overthrown,
• 18:44
  or there's going to be military coming in in tanks that are
• 18:47
  going to take over a
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: leader.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that it is not the way that it happens,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: that there's small administrative,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: mostly legally bound changes that expand a small group's power.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that change happens by individual people.
• 19:01
  I mean,
• 19:02
  we saw in Minnesota a withdrawal because people showed up on
• 19:06
  the streets.
• 19:07
  So many people were writing letters to Congress and their
• 19:10
  elected officials.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: There was no denying an output of neighbors saying,
• 19:15
  People who were never politically active saying,
• 19:17
  we don't want tanks in our street.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: we see with Target and Costco,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: when Target made changes to just to take down their DEI programming,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: people boycotted Target and their profits have gone down dramatically.
• 19:34
  Costco said,
• 19:35
  we are going to double down and we're actually we're not
• 19:38
  backing out.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to dive into it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to expand our DEI programming.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they have reaped the rewards of that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say if you're somebody who doesn't know how to show up,
• 19:49
  the first thing you can do and maybe the most important thing
• 19:52
  you could do is spend
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: time.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: with your values.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: So money does impact our system.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And especially in the United States,
• 20:01
  I would think about we're researching companies and making sure
• 20:05
  that the companies
• 20:05
  where you're spending your hard-earned money align with the
• 20:09
  values that you want to
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: promote.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one way.
• 20:12
  There's so many kind of protests and vigils and trainings right
• 20:15
  now on Know Your Rights and
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: Show up.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are inclined to participate in that way, that's a great way.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And our democracy needs nonviolent action.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I would stand up.
• 20:26
  I would look at,
• 20:27
  you know,
• 20:28
  if you're active in a church or in a school,
• 20:31
  mutual aid networks.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And whether that's for natural disaster with climate change,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: we're seeing more natural disasters where neighbors might need help.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: We saw this during COVID.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: During COVID,
• 20:40
  I set up a neighborhood helpers program for a period of time
• 20:43
  where we just
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: organized community members for people who couldn't go out to shop.
• 20:48
  And we would organize groceries for them and drop them off at
• 20:51
  their house.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: These are really simple things that you can do.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to start it or organize it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can find one that exists.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's food pantries all over our local area in Monmouth.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you can find a way to engage.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can also go to AFSC.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I work.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we have volunteer opportunities.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have nonviolent movement opportunities to participate in actions.
• 21:13
  There's always congressional alerts so that you can choose the
• 21:17
  issue that's important to you.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can sign a letter.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can sign a petition.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to do big things every day.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:25
  choosing one thing a week and deciding to call your
• 21:28
  congressperson and getting your
• 21:29
  position on paper or on the phone or using your dollars and
• 21:34
  where you participate,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: all those things add up and one person makes a difference there.
• 21:39
  I love that menu of options because it really is saying like,
• 21:44
  meet yourself where you are.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, talk to each other.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there is, this is something where I think
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: When we see deeper polarization and division in the United States,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: in the peacebuilding community,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: we look at neuroscience.
• 22:00
  And I'm sure in your work that you've studied mirror neurons
• 22:06
  and how you are more
• 22:07
  empathetic to people who are in your in-group and less
• 22:10
  empathetic to people in your
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: out-group.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you can train your brain to have your in-group be more expansive.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So your in-group, like my in-group could be my neighbors.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: It could be redheads.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: It could be people who speak Tonga.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: It could be people who are peace builders.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: It could be people who have children in the schools that we have.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the more we're aware of our brain,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: the way that our brain operates and biology,
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: and the more we can say,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Find commonality with as many people as you can,
• 22:40
  and then you can have broader conversations where you can try
• 22:43
  to find value that
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: expands,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: that doesn't polarize,
• 22:48
  but actually goes against that and really tries to expand
• 22:51
  inclusivity and who is
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: American and who counts as.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think everybody can do that in an individual capacity.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you disagree with somebody,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: rather than kind of digging in and being polarized,
• 23:03
  really trying to think about how can I find commonality with
• 23:06
  this person where we
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: might be able to open dialogue,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: have more respect,
• 23:11
  And I think that there is a tendency right now in this point in
• 23:14
  time where people
• 23:15
  are kind of getting more entrenched in their positions and
• 23:18
  having less dialogue
• 23:19
  because of our algorithms and understanding that people also
• 23:23
  need their safe space.
• 23:23
  So people have to make decisions about where they engage and
• 23:25
  how they engage.
• 23:26
  But I think that we will be better if we try to find more
• 23:30
  common ground with more
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: people around us,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: especially starting at a local community level.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do that with your neighbor's.
• 23:36
  I know you do that because you've told me really amazing things
• 23:39
  that you've done.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you share that too here, like with the sourdough bread.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's such a great example of building peace in community.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we can all do that every day.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: We went out and shoveled all of our neighbors.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're so lovely.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: The other day.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Are you serious?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was a good workout.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it was a good excuse to talk to neighbors.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: we hit everyone,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: obviously,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: but anybody who was outside,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: we were like,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: can we lend a hand?
• 24:07
  And the woman who lost her husband recently,
• 24:09
  we went and shoveled for her.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: And for us, it was just like, it was a no brainer.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:16
  And it was very important community building because we want to
• 24:21
  belong in our
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: community,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: which means we need to engage and make an effort in belonging.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you do that.
• 24:28
  And such a good example for the kids,
• 24:30
  for your children,
• 24:30
  and to do that as a family.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's amazing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: And we are, yes, biologically driven to want to belong.
• 24:36
  That is like our most fundamental human need is to connect and
• 24:39
  see each other.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that freeze that everybody's feeling right now,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: that darkness,
• 24:44
  is because we're getting this onslaught of information in a
• 24:47
  non-natural way.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: The connections that we normally have are becoming divisive.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: who said,
• 25:14
  this feels so dark and it's so encouraging to just see how we
• 25:19
  can just make these
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: little changes to make the world a better place.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I worry about,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: our kids,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: especially who are looking at like,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: what does the future look like?
• 25:28
  And so I think being more practiced at taking these small steps
• 25:31
  and helping our
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: family members and our children take these small steps,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think is really important.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is a message we shared on the last episode.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're listening to this episode with Carrie,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: go back and listen to the last episode if you haven't,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: because I think they're good companion pieces.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: We talked to two opposing mayoral candidates in our small town.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you did.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I saw that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't hear it though.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll need to go and check it.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: In Highlands, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: About,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: like civic disengagement,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: the fact that only 50% of this tiny population voted,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: but also what that says about people's willingness to...
• 26:10
  stand up and create change and the power of rival candidates
• 26:15
  coming back together
• 26:16
  after elections to stand in alignment against common shared
• 26:22
  beliefs and values at
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: this hyperlocal level.
• 26:25
  And so our key takeaway from that conversation was get off
• 26:31
  social media and get social.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I hear that reflected here.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: One thousand percent.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I ran for local office in my small town and did not win,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: but was appointed to serve for a period of time.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm a Democrat.
• 26:47
  This town is there's Democrats and there's Republicans and
• 26:50
  there's some deep division.
• 26:51
  However,
• 26:52
  we're going to see each other at the school pickup and at the
• 26:55
  grocery store.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so civility is really important.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And even if sometimes things got a little tense in the
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: election period for a period of time,
• 27:05
  I know that my neighbor is going to help me shovel snow no
• 27:08
  matter what their
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: political party is if I need it.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so it does allow you to navigate those differences in a better,
• 27:15
  easier way that builds the fabric of our community rather than
• 27:19
  pulls at it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 27:20
  Now,
• 27:21
  I want to talk to you about something that sort of builds on
• 27:23
  this,
• 27:24
  which is that
• 27:25
  We've talked a little about what the experience is of people
• 27:29
  who are feeling
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: paralyzed by the scale and scope of the problem.
• 27:34
  But I want to talk about the people who are just freaking
• 27:37
  exhausted from fighting.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we talked a little bit about where we are right now.
• 27:41
  But I think if we look back,
• 27:43
  there were great surges of civic disobedience and
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: 2020 that felt like powerful force.
• 27:49
  And I think there was a time that felt like change was
• 27:53
  happening for the good of
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: democracy and that we were making a difference.
• 28:00
  And then I think you have a lot of the people who were really
• 28:02
  loud and brave during
• 28:05
  that period are just freaking exhausted and beaten down by what
• 28:10
  has felt like a
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: or a boomerang,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what the right metaphor is there,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: that has left them feeling disempowered.
• 28:18
  So I'm curious as somebody who's been in civic engagement for
• 28:22
  literally decades,
• 28:25
  how you sustain energy and how you sort of reinvigorate that
• 28:29
  when it feels like,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: damn,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: this is exhausting.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is exhausting.
• 28:35
  And like,
• 28:35
  so the work that I do is decades long work,
• 28:38
  not year long work,
• 28:40
  not monthly work.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's decades long.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I once talked to Desmond Tutu about this,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: who's reverend,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: who was really instrumental in the anti-apartheid movement,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: who was a partner with Nelson Mandela.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: I said, what gave you hope during all of these years?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I just kept looking for the good Samaritans.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kept looking whenever I had moments.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: The Mr. Rogers advice.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever things were so dark,
• 29:08
  you will find helpers and you will see people who are doing
• 29:11
  good things in the
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: community.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I look for them for help.
• 29:14
  But the metaphor that I think of for all of us who are in the
• 29:18
  movement in a deep
• 29:19
  way or coming in and out and getting active and coming out is
• 29:23
  that to think of it
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: as a chorus.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Or a choir.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's really beautiful.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: One person, no one person can sustain any movement anywhere in the world.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it relies on collective action.
• 29:38
  And the chorus or the choir,
• 29:41
  if I'm tired and my voice is tired,
• 29:43
  I take a rest.
• 29:45
  And no one is going to notice my silence because the group is
• 29:48
  going to sustain the sound.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what I really say.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have to take care of each other.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: We have to take care of ourselves.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing that's interesting is as I get older,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: I prioritize sleep more where I used to be like,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an early riser.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting up before 30 in the morning.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to do my workout.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Same.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: as my kids became teenagers, they wouldn't talk at me.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not getting up early.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: So like you have to make, you have to shift your lifestyle.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if it,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: and it like,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: if it changes the way that you after your,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: your daily life,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: like you have to be willing to give yourself grace.
• 30:21
  And I do really prioritize like,
• 30:24
  you know,
• 30:25
  going in the sauna,
• 30:26
  doing my workout.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't get my workouts in and,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: and looking for,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: for me,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: meditative workouts as much,
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: as much as possible.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So like
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: I swim,
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: I ski,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: things where I'm like,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: where the noise,
• 30:38
  I try to do things where the noise is shut out and I could get
• 30:43
  into like a state
• 30:45
  where I keep my brain isn't cycling about like what I need to
• 30:48
  do or like what the
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: problems in the world are,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm entering this different state.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And when it's really great, I can do that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: And also I lift heavy.
• 30:55
  That's another time if you have a heavy barbell,
• 30:57
  like you can't be worried about
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: what you have to do to accomplish your work.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're thinking about lifting.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I try to find those things.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I think everyone needs to give themselves grace,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: show up where they can,
• 31:11
  know that it's not about the one person or the 10 people or the
• 31:14
  100 people or the
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: one leader that's going to come save us.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's about the collective.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's about the energy.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And that goal is 3.5 of a sustained population.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm using the United States as an example.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the goal.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Get as many people as possible so that you can give each other breaks.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: It also strikes me from a behavior change standpoint,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: one of the things we talk about,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: all the time is goal setting.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I read about this this week in my newsletter,
• 31:42
  the way that I had to remember and weightlifting specifically
• 31:47
  to your example.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: the power of medium-term goals.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 31:50
  Because I had these short-term goals and having been a runner
• 31:53
  my entire life,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: like I understood what my medium-term goals were.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: It would be to PR in a race.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: It would be to add a new distance goal.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: But now having shifted to weightlifting,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't...
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: There was,
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to go up five pounds and this or that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: But like that wasn't adding up to anything.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: It lacked a sense of significance.
• 32:15
  And then there was like the really far out goal of I'm going to
• 32:19
  be able to be mobile in my 90s.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: I love that goal.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Those are great goals.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: They are not...
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: What are you going to do this year?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Our goals in order to be meaningful need to feel like they
• 32:35
  accumulate into
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: something that is within our eyesight.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, like now I have a medium term goal.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: What is it?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: I just learned the term because I went to my trainer and I was like,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: this is what I'm lacking.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is why it feels sort of silly and meaningless.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I just like show up.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so my new, for my overhead press is to lift a plate.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: which I'll actually get to in like two weeks,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: which is the barbell plus a 45 pound weight on each side.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, now I'm at like a barbell plus 35 pounds on each side.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're very close.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I didn't know that was a thing.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm setting goals all the time.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: I want to get to,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I do try to do this,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: that idea of like the 1% better every day,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: noting that sometimes you're going to backside,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes you're really going to get there,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: but building on some medium goals might be like,
• 33:29
  I have an aspiration to lift like my body weight or like three
• 33:33
  fourths of my body
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: weight in a year,
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: or I want to squat
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Double my body weight, which, you know, I used to be able to do.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't, I can now.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't do that.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's like my body weight, but not.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's my child's body weight maybe.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: it's setting those,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: getting those goals that are like,
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: what can you really accomplish in a year?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or even you've,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you've heard this about the,
• 33:56
  you can do more within a three-year period than you think and
• 34:01
  less than a one-year
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: period.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:03
  So,
• 34:03
  you know,
• 34:04
  I even start to make,
• 34:06
  I do do some goal setting for myself.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, what do I think I want to do in a year?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do I want to do in three years, five years?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I kind of stop.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm always,
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I do like once or twice a year analyze,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: am I spending the right amount of time on work,
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: family,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: other things that bring me joy?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: health.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: so I do actually consciously do these check-ins,
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: not in like a rigorous way,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: but just like,
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: how am I doing?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if something feels off,
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'll sit down and like write about it and think like,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: I need to maybe do less of this and more of that.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always that recalibration to try to get to progress.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:44
  Because I do think like my point in life is like impact in the
• 34:46
  world and progress.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like how do I be a better, kinder, more loving, more present person?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I work for a Quaker organization and I'm not Quaker.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a Catholic, lapsed Catholic who's very Quaker aligned.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: But they have this concept of continuous revelation,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: which is like,
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: how do we as people be more true to the world?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: I freaking love these Quakers.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: If I were going to take up religion, that's totally where I would go.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always on the fence of like, should I just join a meeting?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like work.
• 35:14
  It's like Quakers like to work because they're very socially
• 35:17
  justice-oriented.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, do I want to join a meeting?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the...
• 35:22
  So I do really live out the values of Quakerism and that
• 35:25
  continuous revelation is
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: just beautiful.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're not going to be perfect every day,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: but can you try to be a better,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: like I try to be a better leader,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: a better mom,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: a better community member.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: if I do things that are not right and I make mistakes,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: and then you try to look inside to say like,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: what can I learn from that to be better the next time?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: there's really great kind of foundational,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: humane kind of thinking and processes in Quakerism.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 35:51
  And if we then apply this whole thinking around how we set
• 35:56
  ourselves up for success
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: to this idea of civic engagement,
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think what we're saying is,
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: what is 1% better for you?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is it, I'm gonna make one phone call this month?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 36:10
  I'm going to make one different choice in how I spend my money
• 36:15
  this month.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe my medium-term goal is I'm gonna do that 12 times this year.
• 36:21
  Or maybe the goals aren't even just the action,
• 36:24
  but a measure of I feel more connected.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: I feel less disempowered or more capable of creating change, right?
• 36:34
  And so really being conscious to your point about checking in
• 36:37
  with ourselves about
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: like,
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: what change do we want in the world and in ourselves?
• 36:43
  And how will we measure that success so that we just stop
• 36:46
  feeling like kind of shit
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: on by the world?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:49
  And,
• 36:49
  you know,
• 36:49
  you could even turn off the news and,
• 36:52
  like,
• 36:52
  go walk outside.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: People are always shocked to know how little I listen to the news.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I do not listen.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: I read.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: But newspapers are...
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like the print, you know, press is not as urgent, time-paced.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you're not going back.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're not going back to our whole days where it was,
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: you have to go look at what happened yesterday.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you're not getting that 24-hour pundit cycle.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I love media.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it is, but it is making sure that I'm not hearing what...
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: A news company wants me to hear and I'm consuming news in my own way.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot of people are watching a lot more news lately.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that is not natural for us.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we should try to break that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we live by the beach.
• 37:45
  Part of the reason I moved from Philadelphia to this lovely
• 37:48
  little prison in Monmouth County.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love Philly too.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Philly's a great city.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love it so much.
• 37:53
  But the fact too that like we can walk outside and see the
• 37:56
  ocean and the bay and
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: there is like neuroscience that says that blue,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: the blue of the water like calms your brain.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, try it.
• 38:06
  going into a forest where there's lots of hiking trails or
• 38:08
  green spaces you know
• 38:09
  there's also like scientific data and it says like that calms
• 38:13
  your your adrenal
• 38:14
  system your nervous system so your nervous system so i i would
• 38:18
  look for these
• 38:19
  things too like these are small changes that can like give you
• 38:22
  some hope and
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: balance in this time yeah
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's, I find so often the right advice is to do the opposite.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're sitting all the time, stand up.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you're spending time on a screen, get in nature.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's so wise.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: If you're alone, get together.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: Even because the opposite is always going to be uncomfortable.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also going to rebalance.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the uncomfortable spaces is where we grow.
• 38:56
  I mean,
• 38:56
  I,
• 38:56
  you know,
• 38:57
  and it's like,
• 38:58
  do you make,
• 38:59
  are you uncomfortable now?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then you grow and you're in a better space.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: we have to,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: we are designed to experience,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: to keep testing ourselves and to experience discomfort in a,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: reasonable way,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: not in a space where I loved,
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that you did like the soft 75 and I loved that so much.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Take pressure off.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like challenge yourself and like push yourself to limits.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have to go crazy.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to suck.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: We can actually enjoy being outdoors.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love the headstamps.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: That was like amazing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's such a good goal.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So like, you know,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: How can we do these things that stretch us,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: like that aren't making us painfully uncomfortable,
• 39:46
  but that is where we're going to grow and we're going to be
• 39:48
  nurturing a better
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: future self of ourselves.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: So in this time that you mentioned how afraid our kids are of the future,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: both politically,
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: culturally,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: technologically,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: there is a lot that is uncertain for these kids.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think
• 40:08
  We can learn a lot for ourselves from what we tell our children
• 40:14
  because we tend to
• 40:14
  tap into our better wisdom when we feel like we're handing it
• 40:18
  down to another
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: generation.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm curious what you tell your kids about what matters now.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: when they are afraid of the future.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 40:29
  it was interesting because my kids see me act in the world and
• 40:34
  I feel like they are
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: learning a lesson of engagement and
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're worried.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes they're worried for me,
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: like for the work that I do when I'm traveling to like risky places.
• 40:46
  And I do try to demonstrate by example and words that we have
• 40:52
  to show up for the
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: ideals that we care for.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: What my greatest hope for my children is that they're good people.
• 41:00
  And that they find a way to make an impact in the world that's
• 41:04
  positive in whatever
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: way they define that positive impact to be.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be in my space of peace building community.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: It could be music,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: art,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: it could be engineering,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: science,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: business,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: but think that is what we spend our evenings,
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: talking about when we play game night.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: We think about like, what?
• 41:23
  do we want to do to make a difference in the world and how
• 41:26
  might we do that and
• 41:27
  yeah I think it's scary and I think it's scary too like when
• 41:31
  you are doing it in
• 41:32
  places where it's like smaller town there's less engagement
• 41:36
  like you know in Philly
• 41:37
  everyone we knew is outside with the sign all the time it's so
• 41:40
  it's a you show up
• 41:42
  and are seen in a different way in different settings and so
• 41:47
  you know my advice to
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: them always is like
• 41:49
  you have to be true to yourself no matter what people think
• 41:52
  about you and you have
• 41:53
  to be kind to others but like your path is not their path and
• 41:57
  their path is not
• 41:58
  your path and you know the most important thing is to find to
• 42:04
  try to find that path
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: that works for you and mine has been
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: you know, pretty clear.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I do recognize not everybody's has been,
• 42:12
  but I have so many like friends and colleagues that do amazing
• 42:16
  work that have had
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: done this spiral or the zigzag.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's great too.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like take the path wherever it takes you at this moment.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I really try to really highlight this idea of sense of self and like
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: understanding who you are and what you need.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and that's important, especially I have preteens and teens.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: When that's tricky for that age.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:39
  It's also,
• 42:40
  I think,
• 42:40
  an answer to the question of AI is coming for us is stay true
• 42:46
  to yourself.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the same answer there.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: AI is like great and awful and wonderful.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And there's like, there's always going to be a need for humans.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Always.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Inevitable.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 42:56
  Exactly.
• 42:57
  I keep wanting to close this out and then thinking,
• 42:59
  I've got to ask her this.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Your kids ask the, you mentioned your kids fear for your safety.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think historically,
• 43:08
  I've gone out and done my women's march and I've done my this
• 43:11
  march and my that
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: march and I take my kids and we did our no kings protest and we,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: my kids grow up.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And my daughter, my 17 year old the other day said,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: I am so, like, it was really actually a very sweet moment.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: She was like,
• 43:24
  I'm so grateful that you just made that a part of who we were
• 43:27
  growing up so that it
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: was never a question.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: However,
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I noticed for myself,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: and I suspect I'm not alone,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: that I feel more afraid now because it feels like all bets are off.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: As a privileged middle-class white woman,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: always sort of felt this sense of freedom moving through the world,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: a sense of
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: For the most part,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: certainly there are scary things about being a woman in the world,
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: no doubt.
• 43:53
  But there is an enhanced sense of like lawlessness and fear
• 43:58
  that we now are exposed
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: to and seeing be more pervasive.
• 44:04
  I'm trying to say this in a way that doesn't sound completely
• 44:06
  out of touch with reality.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm curious, like, how do you reconcile that very real physical fear?
• 44:12
  Because you've faced that more directly over and over again
• 44:16
  than the vast majority of us.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have in many countries in which I work.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I do have a comfort with,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in my field because of a certain makeup that makes me me.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a comfort with risk that might be higher.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a way that
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have a practice and some teachings to navigate risk.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, engage diplomatically and in a way that has kept me safe.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say that there is less safety in the world in some spaces,
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: like where as a humanitarian or a peace builder,
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: you always had your vest on and you were fairly protected.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: And in the past years in Gaza and other spaces,
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: we've seen that that protection no longer is as true as it used to be.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or in Minneapolis.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or in Minneapolis, exactly.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think that the world...
• 45:16
  demands us,
• 45:17
  especially those with privilege,
• 45:18
  to stand up in front of those with less privilege.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: That is the only way that social change happens.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think we can be,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: when I do trainings and organizing and safety,
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: which I do do,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: I tell people like to look at how do we reduce risks?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to be savers or heroes.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to make sure we minimize risk.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: But there's not risk-free ways to do,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: to make social change,
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: especially social change where you are
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: trying to dismantle systems of oppression that exist in the world,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: whether that is a political system,
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's a system of patriarchy,
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: there is no risk-free way to do it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen when we got our right to vote as women,
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: the women who were suffragettes were put on feeding tubes,
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: were arrested,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: many were killed.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing with Quakers who fought for civil rights.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Any civil rights movement has had their fair people.
• 46:12
  And now we see today in Minneapolis,
• 46:14
  people who were bystanders and were killed for that.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: That is awful.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone has taken a measured risk.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no way to make this change without some risk.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the more people do it, the more protection there is.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: So this is, again, going back to that collective action.
• 46:33
  Like,
• 46:33
  you know,
• 46:34
  if you can do something with a group of people,
• 46:37
  that's safer.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you know your rights.
• 46:39
  And,
• 46:40
  you know,
• 46:40
  I really urge anybody who's showing up to action to practice
• 46:44
  this.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: nonviolent action and discipline.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: So if somebody's yelling at you, can you react in a calm way?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of this takes practice.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why there's people like me who are in the field,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: who are being safety marshals,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: because we can,
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: and if you can go to a training on de-escalation,
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: there's so many resources out there right now.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Do that.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: practice that de-escalation in your community.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you find something ACLU or somebody else doing something,
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: join that because the more that we are skilled in this,
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: the safer it will be for everybody.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I do live with this idea of shared security.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like none of us have safety until all of us have safety.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's this Ubuntu theory too from South Africa.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: How do we build a world where
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: We are creating more safety and security for everyone,
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: but it does take some courage and some risk.
• 47:35
  And only you know how much,
• 47:37
  what your tolerance is for engagement around that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:41
  I talk a lot about fear thresholds and I wrote that phrase down
• 47:44
  early in our
• 47:45
  conversation because I think about how you have built your fear
• 47:48
  threshold for
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: decades again.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: And each of us,
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: though,
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: has that capacity to build that fear threshold by taking a tiny step in.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I think our brains have a tendency to create soup out of
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: potatoes and onions and carrots.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: And suddenly it just becomes like fear.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: Fear is fear.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not going to step in because I could get injured.
• 48:15
  But the truth is,
• 48:16
  you can step in in ways that have very less physical threat.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: So let's disentangle these ideas.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Step in where you feel comfortable.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Use your money.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Spend and that's like a gym pad.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Call people instead of showing up in person, like all of those things.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Go where you're comfortable.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then also assess the risk because,
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 48:40
  our brains sometimes tell us that there's a heightened risk
• 48:43
  where there might not
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: be.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we miss where the real risk is.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: So because of our,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: we're living in a world where we haven't,
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: our brains haven't caught up to what is fear and what is not.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: also say like,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: try to get to the sense of the reality of the fear as much as possible.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: There's an activity that I do in my daily practice,
• 49:03
  which is I write down everything I'm a little bit afraid of or
• 49:06
  worried about for
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: the day.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then I say, okay, what am I actually worried will happen?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great exercise.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because once I look at that,
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like,
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: that's not that realistic or that's not that big a deal.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can handle that.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then I ask myself, like, how do I make this easier?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great idea.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: And we break it down into little steps.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that worked so powerfully here.
• 49:30
  So I'll be sure to share that technique in the show notes as
• 49:33
  well,
• 49:33
  where I've documented it.
• 49:34
  Carrie,
• 49:35
  I'm just so grateful to be on this planet at the same time as
• 49:39
  you.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so grateful that our paths crossed.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so grateful that you said yes to this conversation,
• 49:45
  but even more so that you're saying yes every day to showing up
• 49:49
  for our collective
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: well-being.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Every guest on the show nominates another guest.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: Who would you like to nominate as an uplifter?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I did nominate, and I wanted somebody who works on my team.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_02: Her name's Marcia.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: She's a fabulous human rights lawyer.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: She's the director of her Latin America work.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: She lives in Costa Rica.
• 50:08
  There was a plane of people who were deported to Costa Rica who
• 50:13
  were not from Latin America.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: They were from Russia, Afghanistan, Armenia.
• 50:20
  And she worked with a journalist and another group,
• 50:23
  I think it was the Jesuits,
• 50:25
  and filed a habeas petition to the Costa Rican government to
• 50:30
  get protection for
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: those and some support for those people because they were just stuck.
• 50:35
  So they had come to the country and then they were just stuck
• 50:37
  there with nothing,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: no way to move.
• 50:40
  So she did get this constitutional win with the Costa Rican
• 50:42
  government to give
• 50:43
  anybody who was mistakenly deported to Costa Rica asylum and
• 50:48
  some protection and
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: some way to move forward and not be stuck in limbo for years.
• 50:53
  So it was really brave and it's a big win and it's something to
• 50:57
  study in Latin
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: America where,
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 50:59
  that's the other side of where we are sending so many people
• 51:02
  through these mass
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: deportations.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: So she'd be lovely.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: I would love to talk to her.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 51:07
  I think I hear in that that potentially there's a blueprint for
• 51:11
  other countries for
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_03: this new time.
• 51:13
  You know,
• 51:13
  again,
• 51:14
  it's like with AI,
• 51:15
  we are not living in past pre-AI times.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: We are living in AI times.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so we are also living politically in some very...
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: unique times.
• 51:24
  And so,
• 51:25
  yeah,
• 51:25
  can we build new responses that respond to where we are now,
• 51:27
  not where we were?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 51:29
  Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this has been, yeah, this has been so great.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I say,
• 51:32
  I'm so glad that we met as well and we'll have to lift weights
• 51:34
  together or sauna
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: together.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or go for a hike or a sauna or all of it.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're so close and we can do all of it, which is so fun.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Carrie.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was a pleasure, really.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: So fun to be here.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
• 51:55
  please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join
• 52:00
  us in conversation
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: Head over to Spotify,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts,
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: or wherever you get your podcasts and like,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: follow,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: and rate our show.
• 52:13
  It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
• 52:17
  ensure you never miss
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: one of these beautiful stories.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Big love.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Painted water, sunshine, with rosemary and ton.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: Dwelling, not perplexing, though you find it vexing.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Toss a star and hover.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Be your own best lover.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Relish in a new prime.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Plant a tree in springtime.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Dance with idle hindsight.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bring the sun to twilight.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: In the pre-chorus.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was like.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: Mommy, stop crying.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're disturbing the peace.