Latest / Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast / The Silversmith Deep Dive (Ch 9–18): Ary’s Split Soul, Daddy Smyth, & Stolen Magic Theories

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The Silversmith Deep Dive (Ch 9–18): Ary’s Split Soul, Daddy Smyth, & Stolen Magic Theories · Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast

• Rachel: Welcome to Deep Trope, where we go deep into fantasy and romance books, one trope at a time. I'm Rachel, romantasy theorist. Kate: And I'm Kate, lover of all things dark and spicy. Rachel: And today is episode two in our four episode deep dive of The Silversmith by LJ Claren. This episode will cover chapters nine through eighteen of the book from the perspective of two people who have read the full book. So that means spoilers. If you don't know who the Butcher of Nyrida is, pause the podcast and come back once you've finished reading. Kate: We're still a new podcast, so we truly appreciate every like, subscribe, and share. Go ahead, get your friend invested in another unfinished series, be the chaos you want to see in the world. Our goal is to make sure every romance and fantasy reader has a book bestie to gush over their favorite theories and their favorite spicy scenes. So be sure to connect with us on social media to join in all the fun. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Facebook at Deep Trope Podcast. Rachel: And this is an extra fun time to and this is an extra exciting time to join us on social media because we're going to be running a little giveaway soon with a few bookish items, including a ⁓ including one of these shirts that I'm wearing. You can't really see it for video watchers. You can see it a little bit. ⁓ it's by Storylines by Sav. They she has a great tropes collection t shirt with some of our favorite tropes on. Yeah. Let me start that over. And this is a and this is an extra exciting time to join us on social media because we're going to be running a fun little giveaway soon with some of our favorite bookish items, including a shirt from Storylines by Sav, which is just she just has the cutest bookish attire. And I have one on now for anybody watching on video, you can kind of see. ⁓ it's sort of like a Thank you. Kate: It's very cute. Rachel: It's like a gallery wall of all of our favorite tropes. So I think ⁓ I think if you're listening to this podcast, it's a shirt that you would definitely want to have in your collection. Kate: Am am I eligible to enter the giveaway, Rachel? Okay, I guess I'll just get one of my own. ⁓ I love it. Rachel: Mmm I don't know about that. Yeah, I think you can just invest in your own. And it comes in a couple of different colors, so we could either match or ⁓ yeah. You can have a different Kate: Well, you know I'm gonna get black though. Come on. Rachel: And a quick note before we begin, be sure to check the content warnings on the Silversmith because all trigger warnings from the book apply to this podcast. We're two unfiltered, opinionated millennials, so maybe grab your headphones if you're around anyone who doesn't appreciate Smyth's dirty mu- We're two unfiltered, opinionated millennials, so maybe grab your headphones if you're around anyone who doesn't appreciate Smyth's dirty mouth as much as the rest of us. Alright, let's join Ary Smyth Gemma and the three idiots on their journey to Brinnea We start in chapter nine, and Ary has just burned down her house, and their journey has just begun. As they depart, Ary describes the ashes from her house flying into the sky. And Kate, put your tinfoil hat on because I think we've got some major clues here about Ary's power. She describes Phillip and Oliver's spirits as now being free, and she says she can feel their contentment. This is now the second time that she's referenced feelings about their souls specifically. And in our last episode, we noted that Ary felt Penny the chicken's soul flee from the barn after the wolf killed her. So I'm wondering if she has some kind of afterlife power. Kate: My hat is secured. ⁓ I definitely think that she does. Whether it's tied to the god of healing and regeneration, or maybe a god that we haven't learned about yet. I don't know. But ⁓ noticing the comings and goings of souls is like not standard human business. So I definitely flagged that. ⁓ Rachel: So we're noting this here, but we also learn more about Ary later in this book. Or excuse me, let me start again. So we're noting this here, but we're also going to learn more about Ary later in this episode that I think might even tie to this. Kate: Yeah, there's layers. There are layers to this. Rachel: Finn and Ary chat along the journey, and we learn a little bit more about Simeon and Molochai's powers here as well. Simeon won't tell anyone where the source of his and Molochai's power comes from, because he says if Molochai captured them, he would know and torture them versus a quick death. And I don't know, to me this feels like fake news from an old man who wants to hoard power for himself. Kate: Agreed, like how convenient. Of course it's just for everyone's safety that only Simeon knows where the source of power is. Certainly it would just be too dangerous for anyone else to have power. Trust me, obey me, and fear Molochai. Rachel: Mm. Kate: Which like the last one, fair. You should fear Molochai but I think you should fear Simeon too. Honestly, you should fear or distrust, I should say, maybe not fear, but you should definitely distrust any man with a lust for power, like I said last time. It's it's always shady. You can't trust their motives. Rachel: I agree. And this character of Simeon is a little bit confusing. Why did he partner with the Wintertons in the first place? Who are they? What did they have that he needed? ⁓ because ⁓ after we know that he's he has more power than anybody besides Molochai. R ⁓ excuse me. Let me start this over. ⁓ This character of Simeon is a bit confusing too. I want to know why did he partner with the Winterton's in the first place? Like, who are they? ⁓ do they have that he needed? Because other than Molochai, Simeon is the most powerful in the land, right? ⁓ Christabel's death, ⁓ didn't he just rule his people directly? Why is he waiting for Ary? Kate: Right. Rachel: And it's been 400 years at this point, so I'm really not buying this idea of a woman needing to be the figurehead because of, you know. It's been 400 years at this point, so I'm really not buying this story of a woman needing to be the figurehead in a res as a I'm sorry, Kate, I'm like not saying this correctly. Kate: Do you need to write it out? Rachel: No, I think I have it. It's been four hundred years at this point, so I'm really not buying this idea of a woman needing to be a figurehead as a response to the Rexus family and you know the evil rulers that were all male within that line. Kate: Right. mean, it's been generations, you know, like maybe ⁓ as a direct response to that, sure. But at this point, that's not like a valid excuse. So I agree. I think we need to learn more about him, Simeon, and his motivations. I think I have like maybe two initial ideas. Either it has something to do with making sure that Ary accesses her full power before Simeon tries to take it from her, because Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: I know that that's Molochai's intention ultimately, but I don't put it past Simeon for that to be his goal as well. I think he also wants her power. ⁓ and so I don't know what Elias exactly would have to do with that, but it's, you know, I just imagine that he has something to do with that process and like bringing out her power and that. You know, Simeon is just kind of using him as a stepping stone to get to that ultimate goal. Or it could also just be mind games that Simeon just wants a figurehead in the official seat of power while he can pull the strings from the background and evade accusations of being power hungry, you know, like helping to keep up this facade that he has of like, I'm the good guy, look, I'm not even the ruler here, you know. Like, I just want you guys to all be safe from this evil dude. He's the bad guy that wants all the power. I'm in the background, you know, so maybe it's all just trying to keep up that facade. I don't know. Rachel: Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah. Well, we'll note it as we continue to learn more about him. And hopefully we learn more about him in book two as well. Fingers crossed. Kate: Yeah. And again, like the this whole Winterton thing of like what is their role? What is their like do they have a connection to the powers as well? You know, like I really can't wait to to learn more about them and their role in all of this. Rachel: Right. Yes, I agree. We also learn more about Caz here. He is married to a woman named Marin, and she's pregnant and due the second week of Reynar. And everything we hear about Marin in this book, she sounds like a spitfire of a woman from, you know, just all of Caz's stories about her and references to her. So again, that's another character that I'm hoping we get to s meet eventually. Kate: Yeah, same. Well, especially because you know, they they talk about the similarities between Caz and Finn and the fact that Finn also loves a Spitfire of a woman. Rachel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, if she's anything like Gemma, I think we'll like her. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: They make camp that night, and while the others are on patrol, Smyth sits with Ary at the fire and teaches her how to create and maintain a fire. She makes a comment about not remembering anything from before the accident, but she has plenty of room in her brain for whatever he teaches her. And she thinks, quote, I don't know what I was looking for from him. Praise. Okay, that's the second time that she's referenced this, so I definitely think that Ary has some kind of a praise kink. She's a good girl. Kate: She is a good girl and she's definitely looking for praise. I mean, with Elowen as a mother, is it any wonder that she's desperate for someone to praise her? Or at least not berate her and blame her for everything bad that's ever happened? I'm glad that Smyth can give Air Ary. I'm glad that Smyth can give Ary what she needs. Because again, I feel like this is just a response to like being desperate to not have people ⁓ in life that Resent her. Rachel: We learn a lot about Smyth and Ary in this scene, and it's really sort of it's sort of like a little date for them, right? They're getting to know one another, they're sharing information back and forth. Really, it's more Smyth sharing information because he knows Ary better than she knows herself. ⁓ so let's let's ⁓ let's give you a little data dump on them. Smyth's real name is Gavin. Ary thinks Smyth fits him. It's strong, it's straightforward, unembellished. Kate: Right. Rachel: But she really likes this softer name. And we get a and we get a little hint of a smile from him when she says his name for the first time. That being said, this is our first hint of a sort of Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde situation. Kate: What do you think? Smyth in the sheets? ⁓ I'm it's the opp opposite. Okay. What do you think? Smyth in the streets and Gavin in the sheets? Although I feel like maybe I would like Smyth in the Sheets as well. Rachel: I I agree. I think it's like a he's only nice to her situation. That's a trope. ⁓ Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: Like only like it's kinda like grumpy in sunshine, but there's another phrase for it. Like only nice to her. I don't know. Only sweet to her. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Not familiar with that trope, I guess. Kate: I mean I I am. I'm trying to think of like what what the name of that would I don't know that there's I've seen a different name for that. Rachel: Yeah, like only nice to her. Is that the trope? Yeah. Yeah, only nice to her. Okay. So that yeah, I think it's like a I think it's sort of like an only nice for her situation. That's really their trope. Sort of grumpy in sunshine. she really brings out like the nice side of him. Kate: Yeah. I I feel like that's it. Yeah, which I appreciate because with that trope, I think it's it's cute and it kind of brings up the it usually goes hand in hand with like a possessiveness kind of trope, which I sometimes enjoy. but I do like when the FMC brings out the nicer side of him, not just to her, but to others, to be like, Hey, maybe don't be an asshole to every single person if they don't deserve it. Rachel: Uh-huh. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Some other facts. Smyth's favorite color is green, like Ary's eyes. He was born a bastard and his mother died during childbirth, so he doesn't have a last name. Ary looks concerned at this, and of course, self sacrificing Smyth tells her not to worry about him. And we get another good girl when Ary jokes, Who said I'm worried about you? So this is our second good girl. Smyth tells Ary her name ⁓ excuse me. Smyth tells Ary her middle name is Jay because her mother loved blue jays, which are a symbol of courage in the face of fear. And this really confuses Ary because Elowen hated birds. Kate: Well, so I guess that's not the mother that he's talking about, Ary, but you don't know that yet. But also fucking ⁓ Rachel: Can you say that again? Wait, sorry, can you say that again? It didn't come through something weird sounded it sounded weird. Kate: Okay. Well, that's because that's not the mother that he's talking about, Ary, but ⁓ you don't know that yet. But also, fucking Elowen you hate birds? Like what do you mean? Rachel: Yeah. I mean they do like maybe they just made her patio furniture all messy. Kate: Okay, but like just what a curmudgeon. She's the worst. Rachel: Yeah, I know. Eloin Elowin is the worst. Even if she is just tired of cleaning her car off. Kate: Ha ha ha. Okay. I mean what car? Rachel: Her horse cart. Her Flintstone mobile. Ary uses the phrase gentle assertiveness to describe javin. Ary. Ary uses the phrase gentle assertiveness to describe Gavin. And this just feels so accurate. But also when I read this, I was like, this is Daddy. Like we had that whole episode of what is Daddy in Fourth Wing with AX Harleston And when I read this description, I was like, ⁓ my gosh, that is the number one description of Daddy. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Like just that that soft confidence, right? Of like, trust me, I know what I'm doing. But he doesn't have to be aggressive about it. He just exudes that vibe and very daddy. Rachel: Yes. Mm-hmm. And Ary thinks so too, because they almost kiss. Kate: Almost. Rachel: Almost, but motherfucking Ezra the cockblock shows up and tells them that the perimeter is clear. Thanks, Ezra. Kate: Okay. Great. Rachel: In this scene, we learn Arian Smyth's birthdays, which I also think, ⁓ In this scene, we also learned Ariane Smyth's birthdays. In this scene, we also learn Ary and Smyth's birthdays, which I think gives us some clues about their connection to the gods, potentially. So Smyth's birthday is the thirteenth of Helios, which is the seventh month of the year. So July 13th, essentially. Kate: Right. And Helios is the god of fire, which does feel fitting for Smyth, since he would burn the world down for Ary. Also, he burns for her, like no MMC that I've ever seen. Rachel: That is so true. Ary's is the third of Nyxar which is essentially December, the twelfth month of the year, and her birthday is a few weeks before solstice. Kate: Yeah. And Nyxar is the god of celestial night, but we'll learn more about him in a little bit. So I I do think that this is important. I agree. I think let's talk about it when we learn a little bit more about the gods. Rachel: Is her birthday a few weeks before solstice or a few days? I just realized that I messed that up. Kate: ⁓ let me double I I feel like it might be days. Rachel: Yeah, I think it is days. 'Cause I feel like that's why I was like ⁓ wha of course my Kindle thing is what's the Kindle app call? Like the URL reader? Kate: Okay. I'll find it. ⁓ I don't know. I just have it downloaded on my Rachel: I don't have like anything saved on this computer so my URLs aren't coming through. Kate: No, it is a few weeks. Rachel: Okay. Kate: Because it's the third of Nyxar. The third of December. The winters winter solstice is the twenty first, right? Rachel: ⁓ is at the end of s yeah, yeah, or around then. Okay. Kate: Yeah. Okay, so we're we're okay. Rachel: So we'll just continue and we'll cut this whole section. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Rachel: actually let me say re say that line and you can say your thing 'cause I I don't remember how you left off and I d I don't know if it's gonna sound weird for me. Kate: Okay. Rachel: Ary's birthday is the third of Nyxar, which is the twelfth year ⁓ Ary's birthday is the third of Nyxar, which is the twelfth month of the year, so essentially December, and a few weeks before solstice. Kate: And we know that Nyxar is the god of celestial night, but I'm not gonna get too far into it. I think that this is something really important to note these birthdays. ⁓ but I wanna talk about it when we get a little bit more information about the gods later in this episode. So hold on to that thought. Rachel: All right. Smyth disappears for over an hour. So once everybody once everybody's back at camp and interrupting this almost kiss, Smyth disappears for over an hour, presumably to furiously masturbate in the woods. Kate: I mean, God, I hope so. Because if he is not jerking it on the reg I fear for the health of his junk, to be honest. He has been waiting 400 years for her. And I fear that Ary might not be able to handle the centuries of buildup. Like he's gotta be getting released somewhere, right? We know that he's not fucking other women. So yeah, he must be just furiously masturbating all the time. Rachel: ⁓ he has to be. He has to be. Yeah. I mean there's multiple times that he just disappears into the woods and this is what I'm assuming is happening each time. Kate: That's true. I mean again, like it ha like we we have not even scratched the surface of the level of blue balls that this man is going to have in this book. So it's again, for the sake of his health and well being, I hope that he is. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. The next day they travel to Freyburn, a larger village. Is it Freyburn or Freyburn? Freyburn. Freyburn. Yeah. The next day they travel to Freyburn, which is a larger village, and it's decorated for solstice. And it just sounds like the cutest little town. It's covered in snow and there's wreaths on the doors. And there they sell and we learn that in this town they celebrate the solstice. Kate: ⁓ think Fraber. Rachel: As well as, wait. And we learn that in this town, not only do they celebrate the solstice, they're also celebrating this as the day that Simeon and Molochai liberated the lands from the Rexus dynasty. This is very interesting. Ary notes, she's like, they still they still celebrate that, even though, you know, Molochai's Insidions are ⁓ let me say this again. This is very interesting, and Ary notes it as well, you know, the fact that they're Still celebrating this despite the fact that there's this ongoing war with Molochai. And we know that Solstice is a few days after Ary was born, or a few weeks after Ary was born. This stands out to me this stood out to me while reading it. While reading this, it stood out to me that we learn in the previous chapter that Solstice is a few days before Ary was born or a few weeks before Ary is born. And then we're experiencing Solstice. And the fact that Simeon and Molochai liberated the lands right around Solstice made me wonder is Ary actually the source of their power? Kate: But her power is rent from the Selvaren and the Selvaren power is different from the power that Molochai Rachel: True. Yes. We do learn that at the very end when Molochai meets Ary. Kate: And Simeon have. But I was thinking about that too, because we get a few other clues that like like something was taken from Ary, right? We're like, was it a baby? Maybe. But could it have been power? Also possible. So there there's, you know, I feel like we're kind of picking up on the same things of something was taken from her, and we know that these two stole something. But Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: I also was thinking about what Gemma had said about the how they overthrew the Rexus dynasty because they made a deal with the twelve gods. That's what she says. That's how they did it. But I mean, instead of making a deal, could they have defied the gods and stole the power from Ary, like you said? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Is this tied to her abdomin ab is this tied to her abdominal scar? Like this stole power from where it resides in her body somehow? They stole her magic baby? Rachel: Maybe. At the very end, when Molochai and Ary have their showdown, or really his attack. I don't even know if you can call it a showdown, his attack on Ary, he says that there's something much larger than the war between old b two old men. So to your point, if they made a deal with the Selvaren Are there is there were the Silv were the Selvaren actually the original gods? Or were there other gods at play here? And is Ary somehow tied to those original gods and the deal was something to do with Ary? I don't know, because she has the magic of the Salva Selvaren. Kate: She does, but well and I know like we can't really put much stock into the prophecy at this point 'cause Right. Hang on. I'm sorry, I had to cough. Rachel: Well it's real. It's made up. No, you're good. Kate: So yeah, the prophecy is made up, so we can't put it much stock into that, but it does still mention, you know, that she has ancient blood. So it's one of those things like we know that the prophecy is a lie, but a lot of lies still have some truth to them. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: So, you know, does the fact that she have ancient blood is it more ancient than the Selvaren? I don't know. I didn't really think about that. Rachel: Well, this is something we'll keep our eye on as we continue to deep dive this, and I know we have a lot more thoughts on the gods as we continue in this episode even. Kate: Yes. Rachel: Events like Solstice always stand out to me though, like in any book, an event like Solstice or ⁓ Like an equinox, they always stand out to me because there's a reason that like the Celts, it like so many different there's a reason that so many different religions and cultures sort of celebrate these events, right? And it comes through in like so many different lore, like magic lore, like Celtic lore. And I just have to I'm just cu let me say this again. I'm just gonna read what I wrote because I'm like Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Floppiness. Again though, I noting ⁓ again though, I do wanna note the significance of solstice. Events like solstice or equinox always stand out to me in books, especially When we're already getting hints about souls and a connection to this other world. In different religions and folklore, these times of the year are often considered times when the veils between worlds are at their thin are at their thinnest. In different religions and folklore, these times throughout the year are often considered times when the veils between worlds at are at their thinnest. So I'm curious if there was potentially a magical portal or in solstice that made it possible. For Molochai for Molochai and Simeon to defeat the Selv or to make their deal with the Selvaren to defeat the Rexis dynasty. Kate: I mean it's definitely possible. ⁓ because I feel like the like the winter solstice is the darkest day of the year. So knowing that like Nyxar is the god of celestial night, I assume that like the winter solstice is tied to Nyxar because it's when he would be at his most powerful, presumably, right? Because it's the darkest day of the year. Rachel: Uh-huh. Kate: And so maybe they pulled from that added power somehow. You know, like like you said, like maybe the veil is thinner than maybe Nyxar was more powerful and they were able to, yeah, just kind of harness that additional strength or benefit from that. ⁓ Rachel: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: I don't know. Rachel: Something to mull over. Ary and Gavin stop at a shop in town. Ary and Gavin stop at a shop. In Freyburn, Ary and Gavin stop at a shop where he tells her to pick anything she wants. Okay, Daddy. The shopkeeper thinks he's her captor. And Gavin has this line about if I was holding you against your will. And Gavin has this line about if I was holding you against your will, you would know it. And then when Gavin reassures her that he will buy her anything she wants, he says he has had time to accumulate wealth. Kate: Every time we meet like an immortal or otherwise ancient character, I have the thought that if they're not wealthy, then they must be either extremely fucking dumb or extremely fucking altruistic. And Gavin is like neither of these things. So of course he has wealth. Rachel: course. And he's just been dying t ⁓ been waiting four hundred years to like buy some clothes for his lady, you know? Like he just wants to spoil Ary. ⁓ Kate: ⁓ yeah, ⁓ yeah. Rachel: They meet the cr after after their shopping spree, they meet the crew for dinner at a tavern and we get an interesting p ⁓ Kate: Wait, wait, wait. Did you wanna say that line about his tattoos? Rachel: yes, thank you. In the shop, Gavin also rolls up his sleeves ⁓ Ary sees his tattoos and she asks him about them, but he quickly changes the topic. So this is another little clue, like what are all those tattoos, what are all those tally marks going up his arm? And she really notes like there's so many of them. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: After their shopping spree, they meet the crew for dinner at a tavern, and we get an interesting piece of world building here. Caz and Finn tell stories about their time in the barracks, which is the army training location a day's walk from the caves. Buckle in because we get a major download on their on their training here. So every spring, the new recruits travel to the barracks to participate in a series of training tests called commencement. Hold on. Let me just start this section again. I feel like I I feel like I'm doing a really poor job today. Let me start over. All right. After their shopping spree, they meet the crew at After their shopping spree, Ary and Smyth meet the crew for dinner at a tavern. And we get an interesting piece of world building here as Caz and Finn tell stories about their time in the barracks, which is the army training location a day's walk from the caves. So every spring, the new recruits travel to the barracks to participate in a series of training tests called commencement, the last step before they join the army. Elias and his commanders lead it and they determine the tasks. The last test is typically fighting the commanders, and they decide if you fought well enough to give them a good contest, and at that point you pass and you're able to join the army. Occasionally, Elias steps in to fight. The last people who Elias Elias, Elias. What were we calling him? Elias. Kate: Elias. Rachel: The last people who Elias stepped in to fight were Hendrick Sharp and Otis Stahl, who were in Finn's year. And anytime that we get very specific names, I'm gonna call it out because I assume that we're gonna hear something about them or their family or something related to them at some point in the series. So, Hendrick Sharp and Otis Stahl, along with Hendrick's brother Micah, were hanging out with this man, Alec Gerard. And The crew believes that Elias was trying to scare them off from becoming his crony, and that's why he stepped in to fight them. So immediately we know that this Alec is not a good guy, but here's where it gets dark. Elias originally had two sisters, an older sister and a younger sister. And we learned earlier in the book that the butcher killed his younger sister, Willa, along with their parents. The older one, Helena, was courted by Alec Gerard. But It ended abruptly, and people suspect he did something unsavory is the term that they use. But there wasn't any proof. And Helena ⁓ I don't know if they do say h ⁓ unsavory if I said that. So I'm gonna say that again. The older one, the older sister, Helena, was courted by Alec Gerard, but it ended abruptly. And people suspect he did something unsavory, but there wasn't any proof. And Helena then died a few weeks later during a run-in with Insidions. Finn says that Elias never would have done anything since Gerard was too valuable of a fighter. So again, whenever we get details like this, I wonder why we were getting them. Yes, it gives us details about what Ary's army will be like, but it also gives us background on who Elias is. He has every right to punish Alec Gerard. But keeps him in his army because of his fighting skills. So either Elias has very little morals, or they are so desperate for fighters that he feels like he can't hold his county, or they are so desperate for So either Elias has very little morals, or they are so desperate for fighters that he feels like he can't hold his army accountable for the atrocities. Atrocities? Atrocities. Kate: Atrocities. Rachel: So either Elias has very little morals or they are so desperate for fighters that he feels like he can't hold his army accountable for atrocities that they commit. It's good that Ary is aware of this because these are the people that she's going to need to lead eventually. Kate: Yeah. I I do feel like I lean more towards that they're desperate for fighters because we also hear that like everybody has lost someone. You know, it seems like this war has just been going on for so long and they are just really trying to hold their ground, you know? So it I'm hoping that it's that one because we already have enough baddies in this. Rachel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I know. Kate: in this story, I don't need Eli like, I don't think Elias is going to end up being like somebody that I really care for that much, just 'cause I don't know how he's gonna compare to Smyth, but I would like to think that he's not another like morally black character. Rachel: Yeah, I I agree. They also specifically mention that Helena died during a run-in with Insidions on the southern border between Avondel and Tudruff. Again, I don't know why this detail is important yet, but when we inevitably need to build a map of our theories, but okay, again, I don't know why this detail is important yet. But when we inevitably need to map out our theories, I think it will be a clue. And I need to blow my nose. Kate: Okay. Good thing you had your backup tissue. Rachel: I'm like literally I might have to go get a roll. I have my hanky. I'll use my hanky. That's gross, but Ary presses the crew on commencement, asking if it happens every year. Everyone is eligible at 18. And when Ary interests and when Ary indicates that she is interested in going through commencement, they laugh at her. She's queen! She doesn't need to go through the trials. But Ary won't hear it. As queen, she believes that she needs to complete the bare minimum requirements and she wants to earn her people's trusts. Trust. And she wants to earn her people's trust. Kate: I I definitely respect this. ⁓ you know, that she wants to to earn her place and show that she's not she's not just a figurehead. She wants to be a true leader. ⁓ but also I like the sound of trials in the next book. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would be great. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we do love trials. And you know who else likes this? Gavin, who looks at her with pride and agrees to train her. So he essentially gives her a nonverbal good girl. Kate: That's a fun trope that we like. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he does. Yeah. Rachel: That night they all sleep in a single room, and Ary wakes to a woman's scream, which she describes as shrill, desperate, and brokenhearted. She is crying and feels pain through her stomach and lower back. She tries to sneak out of the room, but everyone wakes up, asking her what's wrong. Gavin puts his hands on her back and neck and examines her, but she shrinks away and feels dirty. She flees the room needing air, and feels a memory, but she can't quite place it. Gavin follows her out into the snow, where Ary notices blood flowing from her into the snow. And as readers, we realize that she has her period. She has a sort of PTSD reaction, doubling over and vomiting as she remembers a wailing infant, a woman weeping, and the panicked voice of a man. She describes the pain in her stomach as hurting around the curved scar on her stomach. And she feels an overwhelming sadness and feels broken. Feeling like, quote, something precious had been taken from her. She even uses the word torn. This is a tough scene to read. Gemma meets them outside and reassures Ary, explaining that she's always had a tough cycle. And when Ary asks her about the woman that she hears screaming, Gemma says she doesn't hear anything. Kate: I mean, this has gotta be a baby, right? They have to be talking about some kind of traumatic birth story here. Right? Like, I I don't know. Like, I know we we had kind of hinted at that before, where she, you know, was having this feeling like something was taken from her and she has that scar. But like this, we hear an infant crying. She has her period, she's feeling abdominal pain. Like, I don't know if Rachel: Right. Kate: It's either a traumatic birth story or something that is being written specifically to sound exactly like a traumatic birth story. Be and the question for me though, okay, if we're talking about a baby. Rachel: I agree. Kate: Did the baby die? Was the baby stolen and is still out there somewhere? Is the baby how Simeon and Molochai stole her magic? If it's like you were saying, and maybe they stole it from Ary. Like the baby had her magic and maybe they stole it by killing the baby since magic transfers to the killer in that situation. Just like Molochai tried to do with Ary. I don't know. I was just like I Rachel: Right. Kate: At this point, because a at this stage in the book, I was already thinking that maybe Ary had a baby or a miscarriage or something related to that scar and, you know, feeling like she lost something. But then when they had this scene, it just made it s like sound like if that's not what they want us to think, then they want to trick us into thinking that. So Rachel: I don't. Right. Kate: But but if if it were if that was the case though, like how would Molochai have gone back to the source of magic later on, you know? Rachel: Right. That's a good question. Kate: So I don't know. I don't really know how all of my thoughts are like kind of coming together at this stage, but I was like, okay, I thought it was a baby before and now I'm hearing an infant crying and having trauma related to her reproductive cycle. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I agree that it sounds at least like a traumatic, reproductive experience. And I think that women who have experienced pregnancy loss can potentially feel triggered by getting their period. But either way, something happened here, whether it was an actual baby or something along the way during her pregnancy experience. ⁓ but on top of that. Standing in the snow with a man that you are overwhelmingly attracted to and see and seeing your period blood pool beneath you is a horror. It's a horror. ⁓ Kate: ⁓ absolutely. It's every woman's nightmare. I think we all probably have some kind of traumatic experience from our teenage years of ⁓ being, you know, terrified of people realizing that you're on your period. Bleeding through your clothes, whatever, you know, like it everybody who gets a period, Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Kate: probably has a story like that. But also the trauma for Ary, I think is not just tied to it being her period, but also just blood in general, because we know that that triggers her. Rachel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's just there's just a pile of trauma happening here. Yes. Yeah. Kate: So it's kind of twofold. There's so much a pile of trauma. Yeah. Rachel: Good thing my hanky's here. They continue on their journey. They continue on their journey, and everyone continues to be really caring toward Ary and not talking about the night before. At one point during their travels, Caz gives her a piggyback ride when her feet hurt, and she wakes up in the middle of the night to someone having put a blanket on her, presumably Gavin. At breakfast one day, Gavin surprises her with a roll that sounds a lot like a strawberry-filled donut. And Ary loves it and she groans with pleasure, which literally physically pains Gavin. And he yells at her not to do it again and then storms off. Again, we know what he's doing in the woods. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Gemma makes a smart ass comment about it being about a woman because she's never seen a pair of balls wound up so tight, which Ary obviously reacts to. And it seems like that was Gemma's goal because she tells her Gavin is too old for her and reminds her that she's promised to Elias, who is 25. Elias has the kind of and she says, quote, she describes him. She says, quote, Elias has the kind of hair you'd Kill to run your thing. And she describes Elias for Ary, saying, quote, He has the kind of ⁓ my God, Kate, I can't fucking talk. Okay. And Gemma describes Elias to Ary, saying he has quote the kind of hair you'd kill to run your fingers through, thick and shiny and bronze, the face of a god, tall, lean muscle, tight ass. I mean, he sounds hot. Sounds hot. Kate: Yum. Yeah. Rachel: Gemma tells her she deserves her fun though before she gets married. A nice proper fuck. And she adds that Elias has had his share of fun. What a guy. It certainly gives us a little insight into his personality. Kate: Yeah, like most people, pretty much everyone but Gavin, I guess, seem to have a decent amount of respect for him, but ultimately he's still a beautiful, powerful prince. Like do we really expect anything different than for him to kind of be a player? Rachel: No, no, I mean, the picture that I have in my mind based on the description that Gemma gave us and just the things we know about him so far, I think he sounds like a little bit of a fuck boy. Let me say that again. I mean, the description that we have, I I agree. The description that we have, I agree. The description that we have of him so far, based on what Gemma just said and just some of the other details, he sounds like a little bit of a fuck boy to me, personally. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. But also again, it's just kind of what I would expect from him. Rachel: ⁓ I agree. I mean, I will also say she could have just given us that description. We could have known nothing else. And I would have assumed fuck boy because he's blonde. He's blonde. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I'm still standing by the fact that I think that's fair. We have been conditioned to believe that in these books, and it's not very often that we hear otherwise. Rachel: Well, unfortunately, Smyth has returned at this point in the conversation, and it's not good. Ary hears a terrifying growl, and he then cuts himself instead of the apple that he was slicing. And of course, Gemma says, I knew it. Fucking Gemma. Like she's just stirring the pot. And I can't tell about if I and I can't tell if I like her or I think she's really fucking annoying. Kate: For me, it's both. She's definitely abrasive, like you said. Like she's stirring the pot. She's definitely the first one to say exactly how she's feeling. But I do appreciate a confident, outspoken woman in a male dominated society. So I think I still like her, but she is also still annoying. It can be both. Rachel: Yeah, why not both? Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: Ary follows Smyth to calm him down, and he's just furious. He tells her she deserves more than a quick fuck. And they get into a back and forth about that not being fair. Kate: And obviously in the context of Smyth, like it's coming from a much deeper place than just normal jealousy. Like it's coming from 400 years of yearning and like burning for her. But I still don't agree with him here. Like there's definitely a time and a place for a good fling, especially if you're about to enter into an arranged marriage and have nineteen years of memories and experiences to catch up on. Like Again, I I get I obviously get where he's coming from, but I agree with Gemma in the circumstances where Ary doesn't know who Smyth really is, that like, yeah, she should be looking for that before you settle down with a stranger. Rachel: Right. One weird part in this exchange is when Ary says she wants to know Smyth better and he says, quote, No, you would not. What the fuck, Smyth? You can tell here on the reread that he loves her so much, but hates what he's become, and he just assumes that she'll hate him too. Kate: It's heartbreaking. It really is. Rachel: Did you hear what I just said? You froze. Kate: ⁓ yeah I did. Did you not hear what I said? Rachel: That's no. Kate: Okay, should we I don't know where I froze, but do you wanna redo that? Rachel: What the fuck, Smyth? You can tell here on the reread that he loves her so much, but just hates what he's become and assumes that she'll hate him too. Kate: It's heartbreaking. It really is. Rachel: The argument comes to a head when Smyth demands that Ary not marry Elias or even let him touch her. And we get this amazing quote: I'll kill him if he touches you, Ella. You can't protect or keep me from the man meant to be my husband. ⁓ wait, wait, wait, sorry. I'll kill him if he touches me, Ella, Smyth says. And then Ary says, You can't protect me or keep me from the man meant to be my husband. And Smyth says, Then I'll be his fucking nightmare. And Ary agrees, fine, be his nightmare. And he smiles and she describes this as a compromise, saying he brings out both her fury and comfort. And, you know, I believe that we call this sexual tension. Kate: Yes, ma'am. Rachel: But we need to note here the use of the word nightmare. And I actually wonder if this exact line is foreshadowing. But I don't know what. Some kind of dream magic maybe? Kate: I don't know. I mean, it comes up often enough in relation to Smyth that, like you said, it's worth noting, but we have to keep an eye on it because Ary is very drawn to darkness. Nightmares and darkness coincide. So obviously Ary is very drawn to Smyth, but I don't know what Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: he actually has to do with nightmares yet. Rachel: Right. He has to there has to be something. Like this literally sounds like a freaking deal that they made. It almost feels like a little bit of like a deal with the devil situation, you know? Kate: I know. I mean he did make a deal with the devil. Rachel: He did, but did she just make one as well? I don't know. Kate: Good questions. Rachel: Noted. At the end of all of this, Smyth deter at the end of all of this, Smyth determines that they will begin training again tomorrow. And then they proceed to walk 12 hours that day. This man is literally so sexually frustrated, he's going to kill them all with this journey. Kate: Like he's thinking, if I walk until my feet fall off, I won't notice my raging boner. It doesn't work that way, Smyth, 'cause you're still gonna be in her presence the entire time. Rachel: Mm. Training resumes the next day, and Gavin is wearing a navy shirt and stone gray pants. Yesterday, during their argument, it was mentioned that he was in all black. And I like how we get a lot of references to what Smyth is wearing throughout this book. Like our man's looks good. Kate: Yes, yes he does. Rachel: Ary is clearly irritated with him, though. But Smyth apologizes right away. And he says, I was a prick yesterday. He doesn't explain himself, because how could he? But he does apologize. Training that day includes teaching her a chokehold, and he demonstrates on her and she thinks how easy and he demonstrates on her and she thinks how easily he could snap her neck. Then she jumps up. Then she jumps up onto Gavin to practice on him. And we get some delicious lines here. Quote I don't bite Aryella unless you ask me to. Kate: Ask him, ask him, ask him. Rachel: And then he talks her through it and tells her to wrap her legs around his waist and hook her heels inside his thighs. Kate: This will not be the last time that he tells her to do this. Mark my words. At least I really hope that it's not. Rachel: When Smyth's hair touches Ary's face, she has a line that quote a ripple of lightning flanked by desire, shock, pleasure, and a little bit of terror struck my stomach. Lightning, stomach. Does the lightning foreshadow a type of power? Kate: I don't know. Even for the amount of sexual tension between these two, this is a pretty intense reaction to a brush of hair on her face. So I'm adding this to my pile of evidence for some deeper connection between them, like a fated match. But I don't know the lightning piece of it, you know? I mean, we've heard light in relation to to Ary before, but I don't know specifically lightning, but Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah, I mean that's like a really intense reaction to just brushing against somebody. Rachel: Right, right. I know, and is it like that she just felt like nervous in her stomach, you know, like butterflies? Or is it a reference to the stomach? Because like we talked about, like that's like where her power potentially lives. Kate: Right. Yeah, that's why I'm feeling like it's there's definitely something deeper there than just horniness, right? Than just sexual tension. Cause obviously that's part of it, but unless these people are just so repressed that every emotion that they have is super intense, then it feels like there's something deeper there. So for me, I'm thinking about it like the the connection that they have that I think that they have. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. Well, she continues to tease him in this. I mean, she ⁓ okay. Well, the tension continues to build in this, and Ary apparently loses her mind because she leans into Smyth and says, Why do I have the feeling that I'm the first person in a long time to have you in this position? Like Girl, you're torturing him. You're torturing him. I know sh she doesn't know it, but she's torturing him. Kate: Mm. And again, she she does note that he looks tortured, but she's just like, gosh, I wonder why. Rachel: Mm-hmm. at this moment Gemma the Cockblock and the others appear, asking if they are interrupting in like a very snarky way. And Ezra gives her a whole ear full about how dangerous Smyth is. Thank you, but no one asked. That being said, Ary does take his advice to heart. She knows that Smyth is dangerous, and she says she doesn't actually ⁓ wait. That being said, Ary does take his advice to heart. She knows that Smyth is dangerous and she doesn't actually know him. She's just weirdly drawn to him. Like innately drawn to him. Considering she has basically no memory and knows no one besides Gemma. This has got to be so terrifying and confusing. Her whole life has been a lie at this point. And you can really only trust your gut. But the one person that she has any memory of, Gemma, doesn't trust this other person that she feels drawn to. Kate: Yeah, and as much as I wanted to slap Ezra for putting doubts in her head and being a cockblock again, it's honestly so fair. For all the reasons that you just said, none of these people know Gavin beyond knowing that he's a killing machine and they're sworn to protect Ary, so their distrust of him feels wholly justified at this point. Rachel: Right. Ary says that she feels a thrill just existing and as they can mm. As they continue on their journey, Ary says she feels a thrill just existing in the Waimarin Highlands. Highland, no. ⁓ my god, Kate. Okay. As they continue on their journey, Ary says she feels a thrill just existing in the Waimarin Highlands. As they continue on their journey, Ary says she feels a thrill just existing in the Waimarin Highlands. As they continue on their journey, Ary says she feels a thrill just existing in the Waymaran Highlands, which I am imagining as like the Scottish Highlands. She mentions multiple times how much she loves Waymara, and they're described as like craggy hills and plunging valleys with rivers and whipping winds. I too feel alive in Scotland. This is something we've talked about. a lot. Like I studied abroad there. I love Scotland. It has like a special piece in my heart. ⁓ so girl, I get it. I get it. I don't necessarily think of Scotland as like super, super windy. Maybe it is, but I that's just not something that comes to mind when I think about it. Kate: I think it was it was hella windy when I was there. I'm pretty sure that like where Scotland sits, ⁓ geographically, like it ends up being the windiest country in Europe because of the way the storms come in over the Atlantic. So it definitely can get very windy there, especially at some of the like high points in in the the landscape. ⁓ like I think I was on what is it, Arthur's seat and I was being like blown over or at Edinburgh Castle and yeah. Rachel: Ha ha Yes. Mm. Kate: It can whip through, but there is something about the landscape there that just r feeds your soul, you know, like you feel this like deep connection because it feels it still feels so ancient, you know, and it's there's just something really, really kind of mesmerizing about it. So I would love if this was set in a kind of Scottish Highlands area. Rachel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I also think that it's like I love it so much that I just like forget about anything bad related to it. Like I'm like, ⁓ the Yeah, it doesn't rain. What do you mean? ⁓ and if it does rain, I don't get wet, you know? Like it's like it's like a magical place. Kate: Yeah, you're like nothing bad has ever happened there. Fair. Ha ha. Rachel: I do wonder though, if Ary's connection to Waymara is a hint to anything. Does she does she just happen to love this region the way that we love Scotland? Or is there something that draws her there? Kate: We know that she really can only base things off of her gut instincts, right? So like if she feels drawn to it, it could be that she has genuine memories that draw her there that she just can't remember, right? Like her body remembers, but her mind doesn't. So it could be just one of those situations of like, yeah, maybe it whether she's innately drawn there or Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. Kate: She has memories there that she just can't access. Rachel: They travel, they see a mountain range in the distance of ashy black rock, very different from the beautiful, lush landscape around them. And Caz explains that they were formed from volcanoes. And then he explains what volcanoes are because Ary doesn't remember. And she says, you know, won't the fire burn through? And she knows that it sounds dumb, but she just doesn't have like this piece of information. ⁓ and Gavin makes this comment: give it another. Give it another hundred. And Gavin makes this comment: give it another 400 years and maybe it will. ⁓ that flags something to me. Do you think that this is where Simeon and Molochai source their magic? Earlier in the book, when explaining Simeon and Molochai's power, Gemma said they found it hidden somewhere beneath Nyrida's surface, and they never disclosed exactly where or how. Beneath the surface? Kate: Mm-hmm. But also, like the the clue to me, because obviously we have to take some of what Gemma says as real, but I know like I don't know where she gets all of her information and whether it's been like fed to her by Simeon and if it's if we can fully trust what what she s has to say about history, but Gavin's snarky little comment that's what really made me think Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. Kate: ⁓ what h like the the parallel to 400 years ago when they got their power, yeah, that's what made me think of it more so than what Gemma said, but like that's a good idea. And a volcano is certainly very powerful, and it's one of the few ways that what's buried deep beneath the surface of the earth comes up and is like at the surface. And so it's still Rachel: Yes. Mm-hmm. Kate: Sounds like a God thing to me though. Like I know that the I like the where I'm caught is that, you know, we know that Simeon and Molochai's magic is different from Ary's, and we know that Ary's is from the Selvaren. So but I still am just trying to figure out is like you were saying before, is it like just a different god or different godlike power than the Selvaren? Because getting power from a natural phenomenon like this, from a volcano, still seems like a very godlike thing to me. Like in mythology and those kinds of stories, like powers from nature are tied to the gods. So I don't know. Rachel: Yeah, I I mean it's definitely something for us to keep our eye out for. And we also get this quote in this scene that feels like foreshadowing, where Ary says, quote, one day I would stare right into one of those pools of burning earth just to prove to myself I could. Kate: I feel like we're definitely gonna see that happen. Like the next book is called The Incendiary. What is more incendiary than a volcano? Rachel: Ha ha ha that's interesting. Yeah. I was thinking like the way she words it, it sounds like it's just like her daring herself to like hike up this volcano and look in. But I'm like wondering if like if that's a source of power or a source of one of the gods is if she's like staring down one of these gods, you know? Kate: I mean Helios is the god of fire. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but Rachel: Right. There's tendrils. There's tendrils. Kate: It could be. I mean, but ⁓ I don't know. There's it's just because there's there's already twelve gods that we know about, right? And so there's just so many different ways that th those gods could be at play here. Cause if you think about like Greek mythology, the gods have their hand in everything. Like everything that happens, every like every person's abilities and every like it's all Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: rent from the gods somehow. And so it's just like there's not really any crack or crevice in this that couldn't be related to them. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, we'll see. That night, Ary is so tired she falls asleep into her dinner. Now, was this due just to the traveling? Or do you think it could maybe be that night, Ary falls asleep into her dinner? Now, this could easily be just due to this long ⁓ my god, Kate. That night, Ary falls asleep into her dinner. She's so tired. And this could easily be from just the long travel day. But I also wonder if it's a clue that she's sort of tired out by being so close to a source of magic. Kate: That's an interesting thought. I mean, they did walk for twelve hours, so and she's still digging herself out of literal starvation. But maybe that's what LJ wants us to think. Rachel: Maybe. Yeah. We don't trust it. Kate: Suspicious. Rachel: Gavin is hunting the next morning and Gemma greets her with a cup of tea. We learn some of Gemma's here we learn some of Gemma here we learn some of Gemma's backstory and the obvious sexual tension between her and Finn. ⁓ wait, okay. Gavin is hunt the next morning, Gavin is hunting and Gemma greets her with a cup of tea. And here we learn a little bit more about Gemma's backstory and the obvious sexual tension between her and Finn. Both Gemma and Finn grew up together in the Winterton Caves. Gemma's parents died when she was young. Kate: I feel like that helps to explain why she's so fierce and independent. She probably had to be real scrappy growing up as an orphan. Rachel: True. Since Finn was three years older than her, he refused to pursue anything until she turned 18. And so far nothing has happened between them because when Gemma was selected for commencement and then to be Ary's guide and the secret emissary, ⁓ there just wasn't really time where they've been together since then. She's floated from village to village in Avendrell and Waymara ⁓ after leaving Ary in Warwick. Warwich. So there just really hasn't been the right time for them yet. Kate: Yeah, and like obviously I'm glad he didn't pursue her when she was younger, but it's still pretty creepy when somebody says that they waited until a girl turned eighteen. Like they're only three years apart, which is not a huge deal, but it still comes off so creepy when you say it like that. It just I don't I don't like that, like, ⁓ the day that she turns eighteen, now she's fair game and it's not creepy anymore. I don't know. Just kind of gives me the ick. Rachel: I know, I I wish that that line just wasn't there because I love this book so much and like I hate to critique anything about it, honestly. But if I did have a criticism, it would be that there's these sort of like comments about not crossing a line with questionable ages like that. And it seems like LJ went out of her way to call out that age, as well as Smyth confirming Ary is legal in the flashback later in the book when they meet for the first time. So I like that she's like, everything's great, you know, I'm making sure that everything's above board. There's nothing questionable here. But maybe it's because that I'm older and I would just prefer older characters, but I just don't really understand the purpose. Like, why don't we just age everyone up a year or two so that we don't even have to have this conversation? Kate: Yeah. I I agree. I don't I don't know that it's adding anything except giving me that kind of icky feeling. Rachel: Yeah, yeah. Mm-mm. Gavin returns home Gavin returns from his hunt, soaking wet, carrying a massive red stag, and then he throat It is hot. I don't know that it's hot. Actually, let me say that again. Let me start over. Let me start let me start over. Let me start over. Kate: Hot. Okay, I don't know. I'm actually I'm n Okay. Never mind. I got caught up in the fact that he was soaking wet. I'm like, that's hot, but then like the bloody animal. Rachel: Mm Let's start over because I I you can say that, but I just don't know that I think it's that. Okay. Gavin returns from his hunt soaking wet, carrying a massive red stag. Kate: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Like I wanna say that this is really hot because the thought of Gavin soaking wet is intriguing. But but yeah, I mean I I am personally not attracted to the giant dead bleeding carcass part of it, but the thought of Gavin soaking wet without the carcass, hot. Rachel: I think Ary thought it was hot. Then he throws the carcass on the ground, looks at Ary specifically, and tells her it should cover her for the next few meals. This is just so funny. This is a massive deer, and this man is just so obsessed with making sure she's fed. Kate: Yeah, like ⁓ yeah, that'll be like dinner and maybe breakfast tomorrow. Right? Eat up. Rachel: I mean it's honestly s just so typical of sending a man to the grocery store. They either show up with not nearly the things that make a meal or just like two hundred dollars worth of meat. Kate: Yeah, like ⁓ you I heard that you wanted to make hamburgers. You had that on the list, so I got half a cow and brought it home with me. Rachel: When Smyth looks like he's going to butcher it in front of them, Gemma says, Quote, I swear on all the sons and daughters of Sussero, if you do that right here, right now, I will murder you. And Ary thinks to herself that she doubts one of our twelve ancient gods would bother with Gemma. So is this god like Zeus? Like is he the main god? Because it feels important that they mention him and all of his kids. Kate: I mean, I feel like if anyone was the Zeus of the Selvaren, it would be Nyxar since he is the strongest one. Like Sussero is the god of wind and air. And not that that's obviously not very important, but it just feels like I I don't know if like why she would swear on his sons and daughters in this instance. ⁓ I feel like I would swear maybe on the god of animals here. I don't know. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: I don't really know how you like choose which God to swear on when you have so many to choose from. Growing up in our, you know, Christo fascist leaning country, I always just said, I swear to God. Singular. And I didn't really need to specify which one. So I don't know. How do you like does everybody just have like their favorite god and that's the one that they swear to? Rachel: I assume so. Yeah. Unless there's something like specific to that god, which is the only reason that I was like, hmm, why are we calling out all of his kids, you know? but I'm wondering if it's more than just like a fun little curse. I wonder if this was intentionally seeded here as a hint that potentially demigods walk amongst the humans. Because I know that that was a thing with Zeus and all of his kids, because they were he was like fucking. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: People all the time. Kate: Right. All the damn time. But but like that but the the Greeks were aware of the demigods, right? So like are you saying that if that were the case that like the people in this kingdom would be aware of the demigods, like they know that they're out there? Rachel: Well, I guess if she used it like that, that they would be aware. But my theory is that they're not aware. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: So maybe that theory needs to cook a little bit. Kate: Yeah, we'll we'll let it simmer. Rachel: Ary is worried that the red blood will cause her to have a PTSD reaction, but it doesn't. It feels different for her since it's survival, and also because Gavin is there. And she wonders if that's why he's butchering the animal in front of her to kind of force her through this experience. Obviously, in this scene, I need to call out the fact that the butcher of Nyrida is literally butchering in front of her. So if anything should trigger a PTSD response, it's this. Kate: But this is a very different scene than what she experienced from The Butcher. Like I know that that blood is triggering for her, but the scene that haunts her is not quite so vicious. Rachel: Mm-hmm. True. Mm-hmm. That's true. I also wonder if her insistence that killing for survival is different is our first clue that she will eventually forgive Gavin for what he's done as the butcher. Ary is a bit grossed out by the killing cut, and as she watches, Caz turns to her and whispers that it's always entertaining to watch another man mark his territory. What does this even mean? Kate: Is it like a primal d kind of display of dominance? Like he's he's showing that he is the biggest, strongest man and no one can challenge him for what's his? Rachel: I guess. I mean, it's kind of like, ⁓ I went to Costco for her and I got her all the protein that she needs for the next month. Back off. Kate: It could yeah, that could be it too. I would prefer a man get me some groceries from Costco than butcher an animal in front of me personally, but Rachel: It's just a lot Yeah. Ha ha Gavin trains her after, and when she tells him she brought her knife, like he told her, we get another good girl. So I think that's number three. They bicker again, and it's mostly this kind of dumb argument where Gavin is egging her on, and Ary brings up that Gavin doesn't like Caz, who she views as an older brother, and there's obviously some sort of like tension between Gavin and Caz. ⁓ but we get another little clue about Gavin's history here when Ary asks his age, and he just replies old. But back to the training. Smyth quickly flips Ary over, but she uses her new training to get on his back and bring him into a chokehold. She brings him to the ground and holds a knife to his throat before dropping it. But she's accidentally stabbed him in the shoulder. Which Smyth seems to find amusing, and he finds it amusing throughout the book, which is very funny to me. Kate: Whoopsy. Rachel: Ary obviously freaks out, but he just laughs it off and tells her it won't kill him. She does manage to straddle him during this and has her face on his abdomen. So honestly, yeah, I don't think he minds at all. Kate: Mm. Rachel: Of course, Smyth tells her he's proud of her. This has to be a trope, right? Or is it just a kink? Because it's happening a lot. Kate: I mean, I I think that he likes to be proud of Ary and Ary likes him to be proud of her. I think that it is just their dynamic and I am looking forward to see it develop more. Rachel: ⁓ and Smyth is just proud that stabbing him was an instinct. Like he feels like her training's going well. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is a good sign. Rachel: Ary notes that she didn't even realize that she did it. And that stood out to me because I was just wondering if it is another power. ⁓ stood out to me because Ary notes that she didn't even realize that she had stabbed him. And that stood out to me because I was curious if it might be another power clue. Like if she's some kind of like a metal slinger. Kate: You're mixing your books, Rachel. That was last time. but I was thinking of this as just kind of like one of her suppressed memories because he's trained her before in her like past life. So I think there's some kind of muscle memory training kicking in, kind of like when she rides a horse or swims, or you know, things that she doesn't remember knowing how to do, but her body remembers, even if her mind doesn't. Rachel: I know. I know. Mm-hmm. True, yeah, that's a good point. So you think he trained her previously? Kate: Yeah, well, 'cause didn't I mean, you know, we haven't gotten there quite yet, but that's that's what she asked him to do when they met, so Okay. Rachel: ⁓ right. Yeah. I guess he'd we know that he trained her previously. Yeah. Okay. Cut, cut, cut, cut. I don't need to bring that up. As Smyth cleans up, he cleans the blood off the rings around his neck. And finally we learn and wait, ⁓ wait. As Smyth cleans up, he cleans the blood off the rings around his neck. And finally we and Ary learn about them when Ary asks why he wears them. The larger, more tarnished one belonged to him. The smaller, more delicate ring, engraved with flowers, belonged emphasis on the past tense. To his wife, who he says is lost. Ary presses him on this, lost how, but he says it doesn't matter and what's done is done. But she's just gutted by this and just keeps talking. What was she like? And Smyth says she was perfect. He goes on to explain that she was from a wealthy family that was highly protective of her. And one day she snuck out of her house and into his blacksmith's shop. Telling him she needed a weapon and to learn how to use it. He says it was a miracle that she was interested in him. When he walks away, Ary says Gavin, and she says he has hope in his eyes when he turns. And this is just so heart wrenching because you know he was just hoping she remembered him. Kate: So sad. Rachel: When Ary just says that I'm sorry she was taken from you, his shoulders slump and he realizes her and he realizes that telling her the story didn't work. It didn't trigger any memories from her. This was such a gamble. Gavin is just in this awful situation and he just thought maybe this was her his chance to trigger something for Ary. But instead it just upset Ary even more, making her think he could never love her. Kate: This might not have been the right way to get her to remember, but I still believe that there is a way to unlock her memory somehow. We've gotten glimmers of it in her nightmares and in what her body and her soul remembers. So I'm still hoping that at some point we unlock that and can get kind of a flood of of their time together, you know, when she finally remembers. Rachel: Do you think that they just need to bone? Kate: I mean, what a what a way to click in that muscle memory, you know. I hope so. Cause that I mean that's a that's a great combination of things, right? You've got the like muscle memory of like a physical activity, right? That helps. And then you have the intense emotions. ⁓ you could also potentially have some smells. ⁓ hopefully positive. But you know, like you have all these different things that could trigger memories. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: With ⁓ an activity like that, you know, like his musky kind of sex sexy Well, I'm just saying that's like the one of the strongest memory triggers is scent. So it's it you know musk is a is a strong thing. So Rachel: ⁓ we're gonna keep talking about the smells, huh? Hmm. Right. Okay, all right. They arrive at a very sad dying village. I'm I'm gonna move on. They r ⁓ Kate: You're just gonna move on? Okay. It's fine. It's fine. I mean whatever. If you don't wanna get into I thought we I thought we liked getting into the the spicy scene. Rachel: Maybe once they happen. They arrive at a very sad, dying village just outside of Tovick that has been decimated by Insidions. There are poor, hungry, homeless people scattered around, and Ary approaches a girl laying next to a burned down house and gives her the old winter clothes she has in her bag. Blood marks several of the buildings, and the town stinks of death. Then they find a Kate: Okay, fair enough. Rachel: Man hanging from a tree with his insides on the outside, a sign beneath him, written in his blood, says, Molochai is king in the old language. We learn here that Insidions only use the old language to spite the Selvaren. This is interesting to me. Is it a language from before the Selvaren? How would the old language spite them? Because I imagine if it was their language, it would honor them to use it. And at the Kate: Right. Yeah. Rachel: Right. And at the end of the book, Gavin says a prayer in the language of the Selvaren before Ary is restored to life. So I'm wondering if the language of the Selvaren is like somehow connected to their power. Kate: Right. So there's the old language from before the Selvaren, then there's the Selvaren language, and then now like the the common language now is like some evolution of that. Rachel: I think so. I can't quite tell if it's two languages, the old language of the Selvaren, and now the current language, or if the ones that the Insidions use is literally before the Selvaren completely. Kate: Right. Interesting. Rachel: Cause that could also connect to this whole war with what Molochai is referencing as this war that's greater than two old men. Like if there was some sort of language and gods that were there, that they made some sort of deal with those original gods and now they're sort of warring with the Selvaren. Kate: Yeah. I mean when you have twelve gods like the Selvaren, there's always gonna be all this infighting and stuff, right? So whether it's like gods that were that like split from the Selvaren and are now like just causing trouble and ⁓ antagonizing the the main twelve that we have now. I mean You know, it's just like when you have twelve, the odds of them be there being more than twelve, it feels like it's it there's a a decent chance of that when you already have so many. You know what I mean? Rachel: Yeah, yeah. Based on the man's level of decay, they believe that the Insidions might be nearby and they need to keep moving. But before they leave, Ary insists that they ⁓ take the man down and bury him. And it just is a little signal about who Ary is as a person and as a leader, and you know, just how tender hearted she is. They camp outside the village and everyone quickly falls asleep except Ary, who is upset and staring into the fire, and Gavin, who of course is watching her. And then we get a foot rub, which is the spiciest spice that we're really gonna get this episode. Gavin says that he's been noticing her limp for days and insists that she let him care for her. Ary mentions that she shouldn't get used to it because she's sure Elias won't have time for this, and Gavin mutters that he will if he knows how lucky he is. So now I'm wondering if Gavin has a foot fetish. Kate: Yeah, like you'll touch these feet if you're lucky. Rachel: Yeah. When Ary asks what she did to earn his treatment, Gavin says it's her compassion for the people in the village. Most people wouldn't do that. Simeon certainly wouldn't. So again, that gives us a clue about the kind of ruler that Simeon is. Kate: A bad one. Rachel: Ary says that Gavin would have helped whether she asked him to or not and tells him he's a good man, and tells him he's a good man, but she can tell that he doesn't agree. Ary asks Gavin how many men he's killed, and he dodges the question, and then she asks if he would kill for her, to which he responds, I already have. She asks what he'll do once she's been delivered to Elias, wanting to give him everything. She asks what he'll do once she's been delivered to Elias, wanting to give him something to repay him. But we know there's only one thing that Smyth wants. And we get this devastating line. Quote, the whole damn world has been hellbent on taking the only thing I truly want, what's mine, for a long fucking time. Ary tells him that she hopes he can let go of the pain. But Smyth being Smyth says, I don't let go ever. When Ary turns to leave him, he grabs her wrists and we get our first declaration of love for Ary. She just doesn't know it yet. Alright, I need to read you this quote because it is so epic and I also think that there are concerning clues here. The first time I lost what I wanted, I was young and naive. I let my guard down and it slipped through my grasp. That will not happen aga I'm gonna skip this part actually. So I may never have what I want the way I want it, but the day I let go will be the day I am buried as deep into the fucking ground as they can put me. Even then I'll be damned if I don't try to crawl my way back out. Kate: Is this another clue about the underworld? Rachel: It does kind of sound like it, doesn't it? Kate: I know that's what you want. Rachel: I mean, I hope that it's a clue about the underworld because I really don't fucking like references to Gavin being buried in the ground. Kate: Fair. Rachel: So I don't know which one of them is king or queen of the underworld or if it's the two of them, but it does feel a little I mean, I know we know this man's dramatic, but I don't know. Kate: He is. He's very dramatic. He's very poetic. He he says a lot of shit, you know? It all sounds really nice, but ⁓ we ⁓ we at this point we really don't know how much stake to put in every dramatic thing that he says. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: But yeah, if we get another story that we can tie back to ⁓ Hades Persephone, I don't think either of us would be upset. Rachel: No. And then we're in another nightmare. This time, Ary is descending a black marble staircase curved around a great brightly lit This time Ary is descending a black marble staircase curved around a grand brightly lit foyer. She felt she feels unattached from her body, and Phillip and Oliver's bodies lay at the bottom of the staircase. She describes herself as dispersed shards of light and she feels trapped. Like when she was in the casket. Well, what the fuck does this mean? Is she mixing different memories? Where was this staircase? Cause I don't recognize the staircase. Kate: Right, yeah, I don't think that we've been introduced to this setting before. But the Shards of Light concept is interesting to me because we have seen other references to darkness, but this switch from her feeling attracted to the darkness to now describing herself as shards of light, I think might be important of that like juxtaposition. I have no idea what Phillip and Oliver are doing in this scene though, but my mind just mostly got caught on that light. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Smyth wakes her up from the nightmare and we get another good girl. So that's number four. Kate: Is it number four? Or is it number three? Cause I think I think one of I think one of the good girls that we had from before was a nonverbal. So I don't know that we can count that one. But Rachel: No, it's number Okay, maybe it's number three. I thought it was number four, but it might be number three. Kate: I think it's number three. I think I I I looked this up. but is at this point is he at risk of overusing it? Like is that possible? Does it is does a good girl lose any of its effect if you hear it too often? Rachel: Okay. Good. I don't think it does for Ary. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: Smyth asks Ary if she wants to talk about her nightmare, but she says after or no, no. Smyth asks Ary if she wants to talk about it. And she says after finding Phillip and Oliver, her heart feels like a fungus and she doesn't want to do the same to him. And he again is just so guilty. me say this again. And he says to her, Quote, The damage to me is done, I promise. Better me than you, Ella. Give me your burden. The foreshadowing. Kate: foreshadowing is strong. Rachel: Ary tells him everything, how there was no pain or malice, but it just doesn't make sense. And Smyth keeps apologizing to her. She just doesn't realize it's an actual apology for what he's done. Kate: ⁓ my god, the guilt is eating him alive. Rachel: I know. Ary tells him about the dreams she's been Ary tells him about the dreams she's been having lately, and it appears we get some major clues here. She references different nightmares where her body is trapped or she's bleeding and crying. And quote, my soul is in multiple places at once and I can't find any of them. is Arya Horcrux? Kate: I mean, Rachel: 'Cause that sounds like a whore crux. Kate: I mean her soul is definitely split. I don't know. Rachel: Right. She says it feels like love and joy were ripped out of her. She says it feels like something was taken, but she doesn't know what. And because she doesn't know what was taken, she doesn't know where to look for it. She says, I'm just empty, like I'm not even a whole person. Kate, this really sounds like parts of her soul. Kate: It does. I know. I don't but but in what in what context, right? Rachel: Well, they said we learned in this book that the Sel well, we learned, legend tells us that the Selvaren each gave a piece of their magic to create the world of Nyrida. We know that Ary's magic is different than Simeon and Molochai's magic. I'm curious if Ary is one of those gods, or maybe the original goddess, and we know she's self sacrificing. Did she perhaps give too much to build this world? Kate: I I think that that's a definite possibility. ⁓ I mean, she she gives so much, but she's clearly pained from it, you know? So like did she give it willingly? Rachel: Uh-huh. Yeah, or was it taken from her? Ripped out of her stomach. Kate: Right. Right. That's the question that I have 'cause like, yes, she is very self sacrificing, but the amount of like anguish that she seems to be getting from missing something in her makes me feel like she did not necessarily give whatever was taken from her did not seem to be taken willingly. Rachel: Right. Ary asks Smyth what he does when he has nightmares, and he says he thinks about the last happy thing, and lately it's been her. Kate: Mm. Rachel: By lately, I think he means the last 402 years. Ary brings up the butcher of Nurada and asks if he he Ary brings up the butcher of Nyrida and asks Smyth if he thinks that the butcher will come for her. And Smyth says, I will die before I let that monster touch you. Kate: Yeah, lately as in forever. Is this why he won't fuck her? Like he's worried that some different part of him will come out. Like, I don't know. Rachel: I don't think it works that way. I don't I know I called him Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde but I don't think it's actually like that. I think that, you know, he's just compelled to do Molochai's bidding. I don't think he has like an alternate personality. I think he physically cannot s I think he has to listen to s to Molochai's commands. Kate: So you Right. Right. So you're saying that when he says, I will die before I let that monster touch you, like if he was compelled to hurt her by Molochai, that he would kill himself? Rachel: Well we learn that later in the book. That's why he has the vial around his neck. Kate: ⁓ that's right. Okay, we can cut that. Rachel: I was wondering if you didn't catch the vial, 'cause I added that to the notes, the one chapter. Kate: No, I did I caught the vial, but I the part that I remembered was or that I had seen it in was when she first sees it, not when we learn what it is. So I forgot the part where we learned what it is. Rachel: Well we'll cut it. Kate: Okay, thank you. Rachel: At this point, Ary is falling for Gavin and it's her birthday. At breakfast, he winks at her and mouths happy birthday, and she literally swoons. Kate: A wink from Gavin, like I need to see this. I feel like that cheeky side of him is so rare. Rachel: I know. I know, I know. I want a wink from Gavin. When Gemma reveals that it's Ary's birthday, the three idiots sing to her. Ary can't remember any of her other birthdays, and this feels like it's gonna be a good day. They ri they arrive in Tovick, which is a bustling town, and there's a house of worship to the 12 gods in the center of it. Gavin's friend, who they're planning to stay with, wasn't at his tavern. Kate: It's so cute. Rachel: So they camp outside of the town for the night to wait for him to get back from his travels. This is sus, right? Kate: You mean Damond being gone? Rachel: Yes. Kate: I mean, I think it's mentioned that Damond came back early from his travels, right? They say like, ⁓ we weren't expecting you, but he came back early 'cause he felt like they would need him. but I don't know that we learned where he actually was. Like I'm curious where he travels to, but I have no idea what he would have been up to. Rachel: Right. Yeah. As we keep reading, we'll have to see if we get any hints to that or if we learn why. Cause I that just stood out to me. This weird timeline stands out to me like why couldn't just stay in the tavern that night? Kate: Yeah, don't know. 'Cause like does that mean that there is nobody watching the like that he doesn't have anybody watching the tavern while he's not there? Yeah. I don't know. Rachel: Right. Right. It's only open when Damond's there. Gavin takes Ary in town for a surprise, and they discuss why Simeon wards this town, but not the villages. Gavin says he prioritizes people, places, and things that are critical to stopping Molochai to Gavin says he prioritizes people, places, and things that are critical to stopping Molochai. So is there something magical in the town? Perhaps the place of worship? Kate: Yeah, I'm guessing that the temple is definitely important and could also be why it was rigged with a bomb. Rachel: Right. So what's the birthday surprise? Ary is going to learn how to ride a horse. ⁓ so what's the surprise? Ary is going to learn how to ride a horse. And Smyth is very clear that it is not her birthday gift. She's net She's never ridden a horse before that she can remember. But the second she gets on one, instincts take over and she gallops off on this horse. Smyth can't even catch up. So it appears Ary was Kate: Noted. Rachel: Very good at riding horses at one point. When Smyth does catch up to her and they finish the ride, she says you really did chase me and we get one of my favorite Smyth lines. I will chase you to the ends of the earth, Aryella, though I'd prefer it if you didn't make me. Kate: He keeps saying things like that, but then he pushes her away. Like if he really doesn't want to have to chase her, he might need to stop running away from him or if he really doesn't want to have to chase her, he might need to stop running away himself. Rachel: True. That's a fair point. Kate: Ha ha. Rachel: When Smyth helps Ary down from the horse, her body brushes against him and the tension is thick. Kate: It's giving Darcy hand flex. Rachel: It is. We get some flirtation and then her actual birthday gift, a thick shawl made from the wolf that attacked her. Smyth says it's a ri Smyth says it's a reminder of what happens to anyone or thing that tries to harm her. Kate: Like a romantic version of putting a head on a stake. Rachel: Exactly. Kate: Cute. Rachel: Then he says he has a birthday wish for her. Quote May your light blind your nightmares and your love burn away the life that confines you. This is fucking weird, right? Like what kind of Hallmark card is this? Kate: Yeah, ⁓ is this like a common saying in this world? Their version of may your days be many and your troubles be few. It's just so specific. Rachel: Right. And the light line is interesting. I I do wonder if it's a reference to her magic. Kate: Like the shards of light that she became in her nightmare. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's too specific. Like it doesn't sound like it's just like a nice thing that you say to somebody. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. The others went into town to buy Ary gifts. So from Finn, Ary receives her own map of Nirida with the cave's locations. Wait. So from Finn, Ary receives a drawn map of Nyrida with the cave's location and Elias' army outposts mark in a secret code that he created. So Inc ⁓ considering all of the very specific references to places and things in Nyrida, this sounds very important and like something that will come up throughout the book. Kate: Also like something that I wish that we had. I would love a big map. Okay. Rachel: There's a map at the beginning of the book. ⁓ From Ezra, she receives a history book about Nerda during the Rexus dynasty, Simeon and Molochai. So again, I bet there are clues in here. Maybe the Rexus dynasty wasn't actually bad. Maybe it was just propaganda from Simeon and Molochai. Kate: Okay, never mind. Rachel: From Caz, she receives a set of knives that are designed to skin and cut apart an animal. And specifically a deer, he said, or her own stag. And then Gemma gifted her some art Ollie had made previously. So it's this beautiful found family moment as Ary reflects on how much they mean to her and whether she would make more friends in the caves. Smyth needs to go to the market and Ary insists on coming along, so he gives her rules, and she says, yes, sir, which he tells her not to call him anymore, but she thinks he secretly likes it. They are definitely setting up a Dom Smyth situation, and I am here for it. I'm here for it. Kate: How about a yes daddy, though? Rachel: I think that we'll get that as well, I bet. Kate: I hope so. Rachel: The whole group decides to go along, and as they shop, Ary thinks about her friends, but also the kind of man Elias is. Why wouldn't he have come after her himself? Kate: Great question. Rachel: Ezra and Ary decide to make a break for the temple to see it. And inside the temple, we learn a bit about the gods. It appears they are seasonal. The temple is very colorful, essentially a rainbow of colors. And Ary describes the blue of the winter gods fading into the The temple is very colorful, essentially a rainbow of colors, and Ary describes the blue of the winter gods fading into the violet of spring, then the warm, bright summer colors which then meld into the deeper colors of fall, before ending with Nyxar's darkness. Kate: And here we do get a very detailed description of Nyxar. So I'll quote this. His eyes sparkled like amethysts beneath his hooded black cloak, as if he could blink and drown the world in midnight. The darkness drew me in, my fingers itched to be held by a night that wasn't evil or scary, but soothing, a calming darkness I might claim for myself one day if I could conquer my nightmares. There's a lot. There's a lot in that paragraph. Rachel: There's so much. Kate: Ha ha. Rachel: Like so much that was related to Smyth. Remember, even the nightmares quaked before him? Kate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How is Ary going to conquer her nightmares? Can Smyth help her? Rachel: Wait, is Smyth Nyxar? No. Kate: I don't know. Rachel: No. He would have powers then. He would have powers. Kate: I don't think so, but right. And we're sure that he doesn't or won't. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not getting into them. Rachel: ⁓ no. if you think Smyth has powers? Just being able to be really old? ⁓ Kate: I'm not sure. I just Well, you have that question later down. I don't know if you wanna get into it now, but Rachel: ⁓ sorry. Never mind. Okay. All right. Kate: But again, like we had mentioned earlier, Nyxar is the god of celestial night and is known to be the strongest god. He can move the moon and stars, engulf the whole world in midnight, eclipse every other god, and nullify the effects of their powers. So super fucking strong. Rachel: Yeah, yeah. And throughout the book, Ary is drawn to Nyxar's shadows. And later at the end of the book, she describes Molochai's shadows as different from Nyxar's. So I'm curious why Ary's so drawn to this god. And I wonder if her ability to sense souls perhaps is derived from him. Kate: I think it's possible. I mean, again, we don't know exactly which God would kind of be responsible for that element, but it seems like it could be him. ⁓ Rachel: Well, I'm just connecting like darkness with the underworld and then the underworld with souls. Like I'm just making that connection that we have no evidence for. Kate: Right. Right, because I was also thinking, you know, it could be tied to the god of regeneration, because that's how, you know, Ary ends up healing later on, but I'm not sure about that one yet. I feel like it's definitely tied to one of the gods. I'm just not sure exactly how yet. But going back to Nyxar, so here Ary describes Nyxar's darkness as this soothing darkness that is a complement to the daylight, not a challenge or threat. Like the dark darkness balances the light. Like you need both for a healthy world. Remember when we learned about Smyth and Ary's birthdays? It sounds kind of like the balance between Ary and Smyth, born in the month of darkness and the month of light, respectively. I I feel like maybe there's something there, because remember, Smyth was born Rachel: Uh-huh. Kate: in the month of Helios, which who is the god of fire, so light and dark. I don't know, it's just like it's a balance. Rachel: Interesting. That's very interesting. Kate: So is that part of their connection? Rachel: Yeah, that's such a good point. And like maybe that's you made a point about them being mates. Like maybe that's part of that. Or maybe it's all just symbolic. I mean, it might not mean anything. It might just be symbolism for them being sort of counterpar counterparts to one another. Kate: Maybe. Right. Yeah. It might not be like the reason that they're fated, but yeah, to your point, just another kind of symbolism for their their juxtaposition throughout this book. Rachel: Right. As they turn to go back to the others, a woman grabs Ary, holds a knife to her neck, and tells her to empty her pockets. Kate: Big mistake. Big. Huge. Rachel: She has three men with her who say that Ary She has three men with her who say the man Ary with had money and looked at her like she was his little pet. Kate: Like you're not wrong, you're just an asshole. Rachel: Ezra, a trained warrior, remains calm, saying to release her and he'll get their money. One of the men, who is of course Balding, says he might want to see more than money, and before Ezra can attack, they grab him and hold swords to their sides. But Ary is trained, and she's about to throw an elbow into the woman, but she hears a wet sound before her, and then she's released. She turns to find a knife in the woman's skull. Kate: Whoof. Rachel: And she describes it as being buried to the hilt, which is unfortunately the only sword buried to the hilt that we get in this book. Kate: Wamp womp. Rachel: Gavin had thrown the knife from the door of the temple, which is just wild. Kate: Which holy shit, that's hard to do. Like not even just to aim and be that accurate, but to bury a knife to the hilt in someone's skull at all, let alone from a distance, is insane. Like unless you're going through a soft spot, like an eye socket or something. Like it it's my understanding that it's not that easy to stab through someone's skull. They're known to be quite thick. Rachel: Yeah. Ugh. We get this description of Gavin standing, drowning out the vast, colorful space of worship in dark, uncompromising rage. And again, it just sounds a lot like Nyxar. but I all ⁓ go ahead. Kate: It does. I mean No, you go. Rachel: But I also like this imagery of Gavin as as sort of like this black knight against the beautiful, colorful space. Kate: It's a it's a very visual description that we're getting here. But I'm wondering how much of this is metaphorical and how much of it could be like a physical darkness. Like we get so many references in the book connecting Gavin with darkness and nightmares. It's more than just a vibe. Like it feels like it could be part of his magic if he has some. Rachel: Mm-hmm. ⁓ that's interesting. So you think Gavin has magic? Kate: I think he might. I mean he definitely received gifts from his deal with Molochai, like his strength and immortality. I just don't think that it's that much of a stretch that he could end up having some kind of magic as well. Rachel: Well, I mean Ary is Simeon's daughter, is what they say. She's not. But they say she's Simeon's daughter and the magic passed on to his family. So do we think that Smyth has magic for the same reason? Kate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, why not? ⁓ Rachel: Right. We just don't know what kind. Maybe it's the killing. Maybe he's a metal slinger. Kate: Right. I mean again, like he he's shown to at least be very like abnormally gifted in that way. You know, he's not quite human at this point. So I don't know, but again, just being Molochai's son, having this deal with Molochai, like all those things, and again, just these references to him that feel very either godlike or just otherworldly. Rachel: Yeah. Right. Like he's like the god of death, maybe. Kate: ⁓ just makes me feel like I don't think we've seen everything that Gavin is capable of. Rachel: Yeah. Well Ezra and Ary flee from the temple back to the tavern to meet the others, while Smyth most assuredly kills the three three the three remaining thieves. At the tavern, Kaz gives them a disappoint at the tavern, Caz gives them a disappointed talk. You can't run off like that. Gemma and Finn agree, but nothing is compared to Gavin when he bursts through the tavern's back entrance and after confirming that Ary isn't hurt, grabs Ezra by the throat and berates him for putting Ary in danger. And despite the fact that Smyth could very easily kill him. Ezra has the guts to push back, saying, Hey, you threw a knife at that woman that was holding Ary and Smyth says, Well, I don't miss. Kate: He has had 400 plus years of practice, but Ezra doesn't know that. Ezra doesn't really know much of anything at all, really. Rachel: Ary steps in again, ⁓ that he's going to kill Ezra in his rage ⁓ says, Gavin, you're hurting him. And this is the reveal to everybody of his name. They all think of him as Smyth, and they're all kind of shocked by this. And it just shows how close they've become. ⁓ Ary hangs on Gavin's arm and tries to stop the altercation, a young man walks in joking about Smyth brawling in his pub already. He's in his mid to late twenties with curly chocolate brown hair and glasses. He looks at Ary, then back at Smyth in surprise and awe. So he obviously recognizes her. And then Smyth drops Ezra and leaves the room. The man welcomes them to the Black Badger, but before Ary can catch his name, she storms off after Smyth. She follows him into the bar's storage room, where she describes him as a masterpiece of brooding, which made me chuckle. Kate: Mm-hmm. He's so emo. Rachel: He is. And Smyth is upset with her that she strayed more than five feet from him, which was their agreement, because he could have lost her again. And at first she's touched, but realizes it's just a grief response to his wife. He'll never feel that way for her. And she re she reassures him that she's not his wife and he won't lose her. And he won't lose her. Girl, you're saying all the wrong things. She literally friend zones Smyth, which just destroys him. And he completely shuts down and walks away. And throughout this book, Ary says what she thinks should be the right thing, but it's literally the worst thing ever coming from her. And she just is clueless. We do get another reference to lightning here. He's stiffened like I'd struck him with a bolt of lightning. So again, it's just very frequently referenced. Back with the group, the curly-haired man introduces himself as Damond, and his eyes twinkle, and he's very comfortable in Gavin's presence. So Ary likes him. He's about to describe how he knows Gavin, ⁓ but Smyth cuts him off. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Saying that he just owes him a favor. Damond shows them to their rooms. And at first, Ary thinks they're all just sharing one room with four beds, and she offers to take the floor, which obviously no one would allow. But Damond says, Do you take me for an unprepared host? This room is for the men. You and your saucy friend can have the room across the hall. LOL, your saucy friend. Kate: It's a nice way of putting it, honestly. Rachel: Yeah. ⁓ so thoughts on Damond. I I like him. I think he's hot in like a hipster kind of way. He's like the sassy gay friend who spends all day reading books and just like making fancy cocktails. Kate: Like him. Obviously, he's still forced to keep things from Ary to support Gavin, but I think his instinct is to be a straight shooter, which I appreciate. Rachel: Yeah. Finn asked Damon about his early arrival because he arrived back sooner than later. Er wait. ⁓ I think I'm gonna skip that. ⁓ yeah, I agree. As they retreat to their rooms, Smyth follows Ary and we get an epic apology, which I will not read for Vatim because we're getting to the end. Okay. Yeah. As they retreat back to their rooms, as they retreat to the rooms, Smyth follows my god, Kate. As they retreat to the rooms, Smyth follows Ary and we get an epic apology from him. And this man, I mean, ladies, your men. Kate: 'Cause it's so long. Rachel: need to read these books because you just he knows how to apologi. Yeah, apologize. Okay. As they retreat to the rooms, Smyth follows Ary and we get an epic apology from him. And he just is so good at apologizing. He does have to do it frequently. Yeah. And I like that he does it within 20 minutes of their fight, humbly and in front of Gemma. Kate: He does, but this is a really good one. Yes, that's important. The humble part and like letting other people see that you're being accountable, that's a very key aspect to a good apology. Rachel: He also tells Ary that it's an honor to be her friend, although he looks physically pained to say that. And when Ary tells him that he needs to apologize to Ezra, he says he'll do it for her, even though you know he doesn't want to, and we get a jaw flex as he agrees. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: And I again just love that he's just down so bad for her. Like no one else gets this treatment, but Ary, if you insist, then fine. Even Ezra gets an apology. Kate: Like I said, she makes him a better person, which is good. Because Ezra kind of does deserve an apology. Because Ezra does kind of deserve an apology here, you know? Like I think that Gavin would be a dick if he didn't apologize. So it's the right thing. Rachel: Ary closes the door to her room to clean up before dinner, and again we get a Nyxar reference when she says she wants to crawl into bed and let the black night that she'd seen in the eyes of Nyxar soothe her. So is Nyxar the god of what? Darkness? The underworld? Dreams? How is his darkness soothing her? Kate: Well remember, Ary thinks of his darkness as just a the complement to the daylight. It's not a threat, it's not darkness like conquering the daylight. It's just the balance in the world. So there's you know, she does feel soothed by kind of like the comfort of that that darkness and that balance. Rachel: I need to use my hand key. Kate: Do we have time to actually talk about this outfit or is this another thing that we kind of want to move more quickly through? I'm just looking at the time and this is gonna be a really long episode for you to edit. Rachel: ⁓ well I'm gonna just mention it. ⁓ we don't need to like go into detail. Ary dresses for dinner, and as always, a moment for the fit, black tight pants from Gemma tucked into her boots, a low velvet sage green bell sleeve shirt with a tight cross-wrapped tie around her midriff and a floral design in a darker forest green. I am salivating for this outfit. Like I need the shirt so bad. Kate: Okay. It sounds very moto chic. Rachel: Yeah. And Ary looks at herself in the mirror and she knows she looks good. She's filled out and her boobies are now too large for her small hands, but not someone else's. Kate: I love a good handful. Rachel: Ary meets Smyth in the hallway and he takes one look at her and he says no. No no no no. And then he starts rearranging her hair to cover her neck and chest because girl looks too good. She pushes back on him because of course this is a ridiculous way to behave. And she's like, I have choices. Like I can wear what I want. And he's like, I have choices too. Like I can literally kill everybody that's seen you, that's going to see you in this outfit. Kate: But if he had not been yearning for her for literally 400 years, I would have no patience for this though. Like let women be hot. Okay? Let her be hot. Don't be a jealous asshole who won't let anybody else see that she's amazing. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: I'll allow it this time because he has been tortured for centuries, but this is not something I typically would have patience for. Rachel: Well, maybe Smyth is on to something though, because they go down to the bar and Ary tries to drink Gavin's whiskey and he says no. And this same as the outfit ticked me off, right? Why is he being so protective? But then Ary looks around and sees all these creeps and it starts to click for her, like, mm-hmm. at one point, a ginger creep approaches and will just not take a hint. He pressures her. He pressures her to have something other than water and puts his hand on her arm when he orders Ary a glass of wine. And this is not our move, because our man Gavin Touch Her and Die Smyth says Do you enjoy having hands? And when the guy won't leave her alone continues, how about ⁓ Eyes, ears, a cock. And we love it. Kate: Like we're not being subtle. You are in danger. Rachel: Yeah it's This apparently though is not enough for this freaking guy because he still tries to persuade Ary to leave Smyth. And then Smyth says, touch my girl and you'll never see that hand again. Again, the audacity of this man because he still doesn't drop it. And he says that Ary is asking to be touched. ⁓ fuck off. This guy had roofie energy the second he walked on the page, but that is not the way we talk about women in their beautiful outfits. Like Kate: Women can wear whatever the fuck they want and they're not asking for shit. So but yeah, this guy is such a fucking creep. And before anyone tries to say that this is hyperbole, I urge you to look up a recent video that has been circulating online of a creepy guy who is harassing two teenage girls, and they literally hit him in the face with fucking bear spray, and he still comes at them. And that is why women overwhelmingly choose the bear, because a bear would have left after being sprayed. Rachel: Yes. Kate: Gavin is kind of bear like though, isn't he? Rachel: We like Gavin. Kate: I know. That's why we're choosing the bear. Rachel: ⁓ right. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes. We're choosing the bear. Yeah. Kate: But this other guy is the man and Gavin is basically spraying him with bear spray, saying, I will kill you if you don't leave this woman alone, and he's still coming at them. Rachel: Right. Yeah. Right. Well, Smyth is immediately on his feet, and the guy finally backs away when Smyth threatens to cut out his tongue. Gavin then motions for his fifth drink. And when Ary presses him on why he drank so much, he says it takes the edge off of things he can't have. Kate: I mean, does he have to give himself whiskey dick just to be around her? Rachel: I think so. Kate: It's to dampen the edges a little bit. Rachel: Damond, of course, can't help but joke with Smyth, and he says that okay, I can just keep going. ⁓ as the music starts and people start dancing, Damond places a round of drinks in front of both of them, explaining to Smyth that no one will try anything after his show of dominance. And it sounds like maybe Damond gave Ary Fireball because she describes it as cinnamon whiskey. So she downs two and motions for a third. But Gavin, showing a lot of control, tells her to eat some bread first. Like he doesn't just take the drink away from her, because you know that's what he wants to do. And then he also wants to like throttle Damond. But he says, just have some bread first, at least. Do me a favor. And then she's very happy that she did because she feels the effects, you know, it gives her a moment to feel the effects of the alcohol. And she's like, Yeah, I don't, I'm not trying to lose control of myself, you know. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: ⁓ but it's smart because who hasn't downed Fireball faster than they should have? Kate: For me it was Jaeger and I still can't stand the smell of it. Rachel: Gemma pulls Ary onto the dance floor and she apologizes for being so judgment so judgmental about her relationship with Smyth. Ary and Gemma dance, and it's just a really fun night for everyone except for maybe Gavin who just watches. Or honestly, maybe that was enjoyable for him. Kate: Like it's all that he'll let himself do, so he better enjoy it. Rachel: Right. Ary goes to bed fairly early, before midnight, but she can't sleep. And she gets up during the night to fetch a glass of water from the kitchen. On her way, she overhears Smyth and Damond chatting, and ⁓ things are not quite what they seem. Damond asks Smyth if he's bedded Ary yet, and though she can only hear, not see them, Ary describes what she is positive is a jaw clench. She's barely 20, Damon. And she hears wait. ⁓ okay, I see. She hears him say, she's barely 20, Damond. And then she hears Damond say, and you were 22. What the fuck does that mean? On the reread, we know, but to Ary and first time readers, this is where things get really confusing. Kate: Yeah, I really didn't know what to think when I first read this. I was like, are they talking about when he first fucked somebody? Like I didn't know what they were talking about with the age thing, right? Because 20 seems like a perfectly reasonable age for somebody to be, you know, getting down. You know, so like it's not like that seems like such a young age where he would be like aghast that somebody is suggesting that he sleep with her. Like Rachel: Right. Kate: You know, so I I really wasn't sure what to think because I was like, Well, yeah, if he was twenty two and that's when he was fucking, I'm like, Maybe he's a late bloomer. I don't know. It was confusing. Rachel: Yeah. What he really means is like she's four hundred years too young for me. Kate: Right, right. Which we know now, like you said. Rachel: Right. When Damond asks Smyth about his shoulder, he chuckles and says, She got me. And again, I-this just kills me that he's like so entertained by this. Kate: He's so proud of her. Like I can't imagine what it felt like for him to finally find her and then she was in the sorry state that she was in. To see the fight return in her must have been so satisfying. Rachel: We learn here that Smyth is sure Molochai doesn't know about Ary, and while he has no intention of turning her over to Simeon, he believes Simeon when he says they need the Winterton boy, so he's stuck. And this combo is our first hint that Simeon is maybe not as good as he sounds so far. Smyth certainly doesn't trust him, but he also has a sort of complicated alliance with him. Kate: I mean, I never trusted Simeon from the beginning because he was powerful and i I just I can't trust that in a man. But like I was talking about earlier, I do wonder what role Ilias has to play. I know or is it Elias? Shit. Rachel: True. Elias. It's fine. Kate: But I do I wonder what role Elias has to play. I know Simeon wouldn't have the Wintertons on the throne unless he was benefiting from it somehow. Like, is Elias some kind of sacrificial lamb? Like he's gonna be used to bring out Ary's powers and then take him out of the picture to use her? I don't know, but Rachel: That's interesting. Kate: I'm very curious why they're involved, but I know for sure that it has to benefit Simeon. Rachel: Yeah. Well, we don't learn anymore. And Ary runs into Gemma on her way to the kitchen. Well, we don't learn anymore about that here. And Ary runs into Gemma on her way to the kitchen, who directs her to take the back way so she doesn't go through the bar where the drunks are. ⁓ wait, let me just I'm just gonna do this again. Well, we don't learn any more about that here. And Ary continues to the kitchens and runs into Gemma along the way, who is going to spend the night with Finn. Kate: Get it, girl. Rachel: In the kitchen, Ary is cornered by the ginger creep, who says he's been waiting for her. And he says some absolutely disgusting stuff to her, which we will not be repeating. And Ary's mind races with with what she should do. He has her cornered, but Ary's been trained and she knees him in the groin and screams. Unfortunately, before she can get away, he grabs her by the hair and slams her to the ground. And it's looking like he's going to be a, you know. to attack her. but thank God. Wait, I don't know. I should I just not I just feel like I'm not supposed to stay rape. Kate: You could say assault. Rachel: Okay, assault her. And it's looking like he's going to assault her, but thank God Smyth shows up right on time, throwing him across the room, then swiftly snapping his neck, pausing only to say, What did I tell you about touching my girl? Ary has a sort of panic attack, thinking Gavin is mad at her and that it's her fault that this man is dead. And Gavin commands her to breathe, and as anyone who has had a panic attack knows, sometimes you just need that. Kate: ⁓ yeah, I hyperventilate pretty bad when I'm having a panic attack. Rachel: He is very gentle with her, calming her down, and reassures her that it's not her fault. He's not angry with her. And she could not stop him from killing people for her. He tells her he's not a good man, not worthy of her. And then we get this epic Smyth line. I would give my life if it meant I could shield you from the darkness in this world, but I can't. I can only teach you everything I know. I can show you how to fight and live. And Ella, I need you to live. Kate: I mean, he's not teaching her everything he knows though, right? He's still keeping quite a bit from her. Rachel: Was that a like sex joke? Kate: It is now. Rachel: This just stood out to me because the darkness of the world line again makes me wonder if Ary is not of this world. We know she has Selvaren powers. Is this another clue that she's maybe like a trapped god? Kate: She a trapped God ⁓ does she help create this world like ⁓ suggested before too? I don't know. Rachel: Right. Ary's clothes are in tatters, and Gavin tells her to leave the destroyed panties. He covers her and carries her and carries her to her room, then retor then return. He covers her and carries her to her room, then returns shortly after with white satin lace women's panties that he assures her were never before worn. And he explains he has an apartment there. Ary dropped her questioning quicker than I would have. She teases him a little, but I would have been relentless about those panties. Kate: same? Why did you have them? Why haven't they been worn? Are they his or are they someone else's? If they are his, can we see him in them? Rachel: ⁓ That's interesting. ⁓ that would be a whole different kind of book. Kate: I mean why not? I mean listen, I'm grasping at straws here, okay, because this slow burn is killing me. Rachel: I put that I just that for the record, LJ Claren has tortured Kate so much that she now wants to see Gavin Smyth in white lace panties. Kate: I just wanna know that's hi he's getting some kind of satisfaction somewhere. If this is something that he enjoys, that's great. I just wanna see it. Rachel: Well then Ary decides to torture him even more by asking him to stay until Gemma gets back from her time with Finn. So he pulls a chair up. This poor man. Kate: The chair is a tragedy. Rachel: It is a tragedy. Ary and Gavin have a heart to heart, where she asks, What if she can't do it? Be queen. And this gives and this man gives the best pep talks. Some standout quotes. You're invaluable because you're you. And you, just you, are more than enough to fight for. Considering how everyone cares about her because she is supposed to be their savior. She needed to hear that she as a person has value. And Ary tells Gavin that he makes her feel like she can do it, be queen. And Gavin says, quote, and I will serve you, my queen, until the day I die. Well I fucking hate that. Kate: Is it foreshadowing? Maybe. But don't worry, all the men in our books are going to come back from the underworld, right, Rachel? Rachel: I yeah, I guess so. Kate: Apparently that's her that's our favorite thing to predict. Rachel: That's how I've decided fourth wing, direbound, and now the silversmith will end. Kate: Mm, mm. Rachel: We get our first cuddle and ⁓ we get our first cuddle when Ary crawls into his lap and falls asleep there, which sounds cozy as hell. Kate: As long as Smyth's boner doesn't get in the way. Rachel: I mean, I kinda hope it does. Kate: Yes, obviously we all hope for that, Rachel. Rachel: Well, I think we're all ⁓ frustrated enough that this is it's not a good it's not a good transition. Sorry. Kate: Yeah. ⁓ all right. Well, you know what, I think that's a good enough stopping point for today. Do you want to break down the tropes? Rachel: Yeah, let's break them down. You want me to do it? I think you should do it. I've been talking a lot. You want me to start how about I do this? Okay. Well, on that note, I think that's a good stopping point for today. Should we break down the quotes? The tropes? Nope. Nope. No, no, we shouldn't break down the quotes. Okay. Well, on that note. Well, on that note, I think ⁓ I think that's a good stopping point for today. So Kate, could you count down the tropes for us? Kate: Okay. All right. Nope, nope. Sure. 'Cause I'm frustrated. Alright, no, I'll try that again. It's fine. Sure. All right. So we got a few different good girls. We got found family. We have he trains her, touch her and die. You can never have what ever yeah. You can have whatever you like. Is that a trope? Rachel: Okay. You can have whatever you like. You can have whatever you like. I think it might be. He he shops for her. He pays for her? He pays for her. I think he pays for her as a trope. Kate: Mm. Okay. Alright. So he pays for her or gives her little treats, maybe? Rachel: Gifts or treats, yes. Kate: Yeah, I think that shopping trip was a treat. ⁓ we get jaw clenches, like a lot of them. Get platonic sleepmates. ⁓ we have ⁓ lightweight at a bar, power of the gods, and then like a self sacrificing or I'd die for you. Rachel: Yep, that's a decent amount of tropes. So what is that? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. Ten tropes. Some of them repeated multiple times. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yes. Rachel: All right. Kate: That sounds good. All right. Well, that was a lot to cover, but join us next week and ⁓ shit, never mind. We're almost done. Okay. I know. I know. I know. I'm trying. All right. So thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Deep Trope. Join us next week in the explosive chapters of 19 to 30, which involves the temple bomb. Rachel: Thank you for joining just say it nicely. Kate: Bath time for Ary and a romantic solstice date. Like kind of. Rachel: And if you had a good time, we ask that you please like, subscribe, and share with a friend, or ideally all of your friends on social media. We're still a new podcast and your five-star reviews help so much. If you want to connect with us throughout the week, you can follow us on social media at Deep Trope Podcast. We'd love to hear your thoughts on Ary's connection to Mi. We'd love to hear your thoughts on Ary's connection to Nyxar All right, see you next week. Kate: Bye.