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Instant reaction: Kevin McGonigle agrees to 8-year, $150M contract extension · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:08
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode a Tiger Territory, part of
0:10
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Kieren Seckley
0:13
Speaker 1: with me is always a man who knows to stay
0:15
Speaker 1: on the balls of his feet, but always be on
0:16
Speaker 1: his toes. He's Cody Stavenagen.
0:18
Speaker 2: How are we doing doing good? You gotta stay on
0:21
Speaker 2: your toes. We had just finished recording our normal episode
0:25
Speaker 2: and guess what news came down. Kevin McGonagall contract extension
0:31
Speaker 2: eight years, one hundred and fifty million dollars guaranteed, Kieran,
0:36
Speaker 2: Kevin McGonagall is going to be a Detroit Tiger for
0:39
Speaker 2: a long time.
0:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like when this when this news first broke,
0:45
Speaker 1: I mean I have to say I was surprised. I
0:47
Speaker 1: didn't I didn't really get a whole lot of hints
0:49
Speaker 1: other than just speculation that like, oh, you know, wouldn't
0:51
Speaker 1: be cool if they signed him to an extension, And
0:54
Speaker 1: I just kind of figured he was off to a
0:56
Speaker 1: terrort start, you know, why rush it, but gonna not
0:59
Speaker 1: gonna stay that he did the wrong thing here turning
1:02
Speaker 1: down that kind of money. And then also he'd be
1:04
Speaker 1: a free agent, you know before he turns thirty years old,
1:07
Speaker 1: so that's obviously a part of this if you look
1:09
Speaker 1: at the long long term. But like my first thought, Cody,
1:12
Speaker 1: is when the Tigers drafted McGonagall thirty seventh overall in
1:17
Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty three, there's no way that they
1:21
Speaker 1: were knowing that in multiple facets they were getting like
1:26
Speaker 1: the perfect player. And what I mean by that is
1:29
Speaker 1: not somebody who's eighty grade and everything. What I mean
1:32
Speaker 1: by that is somebody who has like the most important
1:35
Speaker 1: skill in the game, and that's obviously the hit tool
1:38
Speaker 1: that has shown to be quite damn good and could
1:42
Speaker 1: potentially be elite. You also have a guy who is athletic,
1:48
Speaker 1: who runs and fits into your culture that way perfectly.
1:51
Speaker 3: We just saw that on Tuesday Night.
1:53
Speaker 1: You have somebody who is mentally as strong as any
1:56
Speaker 1: player I can remember to this point at this age,
2:00
Speaker 1: because we joke all the time, it's like, how do
2:02
Speaker 1: you what do you mean?
2:03
Speaker 3: He's gonna get pitched differently?
2:04
Speaker 1: He's being pitched like a like like like a veteran already,
2:07
Speaker 1: he's getting that kind of respect from his opponents, Cody,
2:11
Speaker 1: and then obviously the cherry on top of him being
2:14
Speaker 1: like the perfect player from the organization is agreeing to
2:17
Speaker 1: a long term contract extension and thus eliminating a lot
2:20
Speaker 1: of drama, you know, later on in his career. So like,
2:25
Speaker 1: like all things, all things turn up Kevin McGonagall, and
2:28
Speaker 1: this is just another chapter in the very beginning of
2:32
Speaker 1: what could be like a very long book storied career.
2:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I think the thing to
2:38
Speaker 2: dive into is like, Okay, how do we actually feel
2:41
Speaker 2: about this deal and the structure of this deal. I
2:45
Speaker 2: am kind of one record normally not a fan of
2:48
Speaker 2: these these extensions for elite young players. I'm a little
2:52
Speaker 2: more I guess in the Scott Boris camp of like
2:54
Speaker 2: it could hurt your long time, long term value. But man,
2:59
Speaker 2: in terms of these this is a pretty good one
3:01
Speaker 2: eight one point fifty. That is more than Connor Griffin's
3:05
Speaker 2: nine to one forty deal. There are escalators that couldn't
3:10
Speaker 2: take this. We don't actually know the exact escalators at
3:13
Speaker 2: the time of this recording. I'm sure there it's probably
3:15
Speaker 2: like win MVP or something so probably quite lofty, but
3:19
Speaker 2: could take this deal up to one hundred and sixty
3:24
Speaker 2: million guaranteed. As far as these contracts go Kieran, I
3:28
Speaker 2: kind of like this. First off, props to the Tigers
3:32
Speaker 2: for getting this done. Scott Harris talked, you know, from
3:35
Speaker 2: day one. I'm sure he'll mention this later today about
3:39
Speaker 2: wanting to acquire, develop and retain young talent. To retain
3:44
Speaker 2: elite talent, you have to pay up. And this was
3:47
Speaker 2: not really a low ball offer. We sort of knew
3:51
Speaker 2: there had been some level of discussions. I was not
3:54
Speaker 2: anticipating a deal getting done, clearly, Ad that's my track.
3:57
Speaker 2: Craiker to being wrong about Scott Harrison his moves. The
4:01
Speaker 2: Tigers operate in silence, and mcgonagall's agency kept this under
4:05
Speaker 2: wraps pretty well. Some agencies will go around touting negotiations.
4:09
Speaker 2: They were not biting on that. But I look at
4:13
Speaker 2: this deal. The Tigers were willing to pay Kevin McGonagall
4:17
Speaker 2: a lot of money early in his career. Sixteen million
4:21
Speaker 2: in what would be his ARB one season's that's a
4:25
Speaker 2: pretty high total right there. Twenty one. I mean he's
4:30
Speaker 2: going to be making twenty plus million for what the
4:34
Speaker 2: final five years of this contract. That that's not a
4:37
Speaker 2: low ball offer. Now mcgonagall's going to be eight years.
4:42
Speaker 2: This will take him through I believe his age twenty
4:44
Speaker 2: nine season, you could argue, you know, his most lucrative
4:49
Speaker 2: years could be twenty seven to twenty eight, twenty nine.
4:52
Speaker 2: You know, if he's the player we think he is,
4:54
Speaker 2: he could be worth well over thirty million on the
4:57
Speaker 2: open market. But I like that he's still I'm getting
5:00
Speaker 2: quite a bag here, right. I think this is a
5:02
Speaker 2: pretty good middle ground where you do guarantee your self
5:06
Speaker 2: generational wealth, which is the point of signing these contracts.
5:11
Speaker 2: And is it maybe limiting his earning in his prime years?
5:14
Speaker 2: It could be if he's the player we think he
5:16
Speaker 2: can become, it could be. But again, this isn't like
5:20
Speaker 2: the Colt Keith deal, which tops out around fifteen million.
5:24
Speaker 2: Like there, I liked that there's a ceiling. I like
5:26
Speaker 2: that this is pumping them up to sixteen million early,
5:29
Speaker 2: twenty one million early. There's a fourteen million dollars signing
5:33
Speaker 2: bonus he will collect over the years. This is guaranteed,
5:37
Speaker 2: does not prohibit the Tigers from earning a prospect Promotion
5:41
Speaker 2: incentive pick if McGonagall were to win Rookie of the
5:44
Speaker 2: Year or you know, place in the top three of
5:47
Speaker 2: MVP in the next two years. So you can see
5:49
Speaker 2: kind of all the factors that work. Because this doesn't
5:53
Speaker 2: kick in until next season. I don't believe it should
5:57
Speaker 2: affect their positioning with the luxury tax this year. So
6:01
Speaker 2: kind of a lot of things to like about this
6:03
Speaker 2: deal and how it got done.
6:06
Speaker 1: Is there a upcoming CBA element to this from either side,
6:11
Speaker 1: because there is some speculation about about a lockout, and
6:16
Speaker 1: you know what the hang up with the lockout will be,
6:18
Speaker 1: i e. Salary cap uh and and you know what
6:22
Speaker 1: would that mean for teams to have guys under long contracts?
6:26
Speaker 1: Is there going to be some sort of grandfathering policy?
6:28
Speaker 1: Like these are all like just kind of things in
6:30
Speaker 1: the air speculation. So I'm curious whether there was any
6:34
Speaker 1: motivation from either side to get something like this done,
6:36
Speaker 1: Whether whether the Tigers wanted to essentially get ahead of
6:41
Speaker 1: the market in a way you'd be more expensive but
6:44
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to worry about it, and then McGonagall
6:45
Speaker 1: also get his team getting ahead of the market on
6:48
Speaker 1: what could end up being you know, less less money
6:52
Speaker 1: to go around, you know, by the time he would
6:54
Speaker 1: have hit free agency or whatever. So I wonder how
6:56
Speaker 1: much of that played into it, because that is something
6:58
Speaker 1: spectative league.
7:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know the exact answer, but yeah, what
7:03
Speaker 2: you just said. The fact that we've seen so many
7:05
Speaker 2: of these deals league wide, cold Emerson, Connor Griffin, there
7:08
Speaker 2: have been others as well, seems indicate something is going
7:12
Speaker 2: on that is forcing maybe both teams and players to
7:15
Speaker 2: be a little more proactive in getting these deals finished up.
7:19
Speaker 2: I think it's one of several factors, but I do
7:22
Speaker 2: think the looming labor uncertainty has to be has to
7:25
Speaker 2: be playing some role in why so many of these
7:27
Speaker 2: deals have popped up.
7:30
Speaker 1: So I guess the question now is like, is there
7:35
Speaker 1: any sort of hang up to this from the tiger's side?
7:39
Speaker 1: So basically I'm asking you you've observed Kevin McGonagall, you know,
7:43
Speaker 1: throughout this we'll just include We'll just say this year,
7:46
Speaker 1: like this, this calendar year with like, you know, is
7:50
Speaker 1: he gonna make the team too? He has to make
7:53
Speaker 1: the team to like he is your shortstop and you'r
7:58
Speaker 1: you know, lead off, second in the order bat. It's
8:03
Speaker 1: all happened so fast, and now a contract excession. It's
8:05
Speaker 1: all happened so fast. It's only April fifteenth, right, But
8:08
Speaker 1: is there any sort like do you from what you observe,
8:11
Speaker 1: what makes this a good or bad I don't want
8:14
Speaker 1: to lead you in any direction good or bad gamble
8:16
Speaker 1: for the.
8:17
Speaker 2: Tigers, well, yeah, like I said, if you want to
8:20
Speaker 2: lock up good players, you have to pay to do it. Clearly,
8:23
Speaker 2: this is a sign of their confidence in Kevin McGonagall,
8:27
Speaker 2: and another reason, like maybe it's time to start changing
8:32
Speaker 2: our lens and how we view the Tigers from signing
8:34
Speaker 2: the from ber Valdez deal to getting this done. It
8:37
Speaker 2: used to be easy to come on here and say, well,
8:38
Speaker 2: they're probably not gonna spend if they don't have to,
8:40
Speaker 2: And that was certainly one reason I didn't think they
8:43
Speaker 2: would get a McGonagall deal done this soon. Again, maybe
8:47
Speaker 2: the CBA could tip the scales here a little bit,
8:50
Speaker 2: but you know, you want to pay this guy, you
8:53
Speaker 2: think he's a franchise player, But wouldn't wouldn't you want
8:55
Speaker 2: to be sure, wouldn't you want to see him have
8:57
Speaker 2: a three war season a four war season? First? I mean,
9:00
Speaker 2: they didn't do this sort of deal with Riley Green
9:04
Speaker 2: or Spencer Torklsen. I don't know if there were other
9:07
Speaker 2: factors that went into it, or if their evaluations were
9:10
Speaker 2: just different when those guys and maybe being proven right
9:12
Speaker 2: a little bit now, but clearly this is like, Okay,
9:16
Speaker 2: we think this kid's legit. We are going to pay him.
9:18
Speaker 2: We don't need to see anymore. And look, is he
9:22
Speaker 2: just a really good player or is he a Hall
9:24
Speaker 2: of Famer? Those are two different things. Those are things
9:28
Speaker 2: that are impossible to know right now. But it is
9:31
Speaker 2: very clear that this guy's talented, that this guy has
9:34
Speaker 2: tremendous makeup, that the floor for this guy's career should
9:39
Speaker 2: be pretty dang high. So is there a little bit
9:43
Speaker 2: of a roll of the die guarantee? Is someone one
9:45
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million?
9:46
Speaker 4: Sure?
9:46
Speaker 2: There always is, right, there are so many uncontrollables and
9:50
Speaker 2: non nobles in baseball, But you could argue that that
9:54
Speaker 2: is well worth the price of jury to lock up
9:58
Speaker 2: Kevin McGonagall for the next eight seasons.
10:02
Speaker 1: Positionally, it doesn't have a don't have a problem with
10:06
Speaker 1: you know, some of this money going to I mean,
10:09
Speaker 1: as of now, we sort of expect him not to
10:10
Speaker 1: be a shortstop forever, so like any any thoughts.
10:14
Speaker 2: On that that's interesting. We are doing this pretty quickly
10:19
Speaker 2: after this deal came out, so I can't claim to
10:21
Speaker 2: have crunched every aspect of this. I mean, he's going
10:24
Speaker 2: to be playing if he's not playing shortstop, he's going
10:26
Speaker 2: to be playing second or third. He's you could argue
10:30
Speaker 2: his war is only going to go up if he's
10:32
Speaker 2: playing second base, where there's not a huge crop of stars. Now,
10:37
Speaker 2: second basement tend maybe as a result of what the
10:40
Speaker 2: talent level is like in that position, don't tend to
10:42
Speaker 2: make as much. But no, because I mean this is Look,
10:47
Speaker 2: if Kevin McGonagall is a four war player, you know
10:51
Speaker 2: that could be worth at least twenty eight million on
10:53
Speaker 2: the open market, regardless of his position. So that's a
10:57
Speaker 2: good way to view this deal. If McGonagall is worth
10:59
Speaker 2: three to four war, you know per year, you were
11:02
Speaker 2: already easily winning this contract. Clearly you are, you are.
11:06
Speaker 2: We'll go back to the deal structure. You're buying out
11:09
Speaker 2: his ARB years. You'll pay him a little bit more
11:12
Speaker 2: early on, but you potentially will be paying him less
11:16
Speaker 2: late in the deal, or probably about what he would
11:18
Speaker 2: be worth, you know, through the ARB process. Although we'll
11:22
Speaker 2: see what Trek scougle getting thirty two million means even
11:25
Speaker 2: maybe for position players. But yeah, the big thing is
11:29
Speaker 2: you get him twenty thirty two, twenty thirty three, twenty
11:32
Speaker 2: thirty four, those are the times he should be, in theory,
11:37
Speaker 2: at his peak, in his absolute prime, and could be
11:41
Speaker 2: worth a lot more than twenty three million. We'll see
11:45
Speaker 2: what McGonagall ends up being. But speak standing here right
11:48
Speaker 2: now today, I think it's a great deal for the Tigers,
11:52
Speaker 2: and I actually think it's better than a lot of
11:54
Speaker 2: these contract extensions. Look for the player, Kevin McGonagall is
11:58
Speaker 2: going to be a wealthy man starting now.
12:02
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny like he now has the biggest
12:05
Speaker 1: contract on the team. Uh, you know, and later in
12:09
Speaker 1: this episode, you know, not nine career earnings obviously, but
12:13
Speaker 1: just like the biggest, you know, biggest contract on the team.
12:15
Speaker 1: And uh, he he has a teammate that at this
12:18
Speaker 1: time next year will be probably may have a twice
12:21
Speaker 1: as big a contract, and that's Trek's schoogle you just mentioned.
12:24
Speaker 1: Is this something that we should sort of reset our
12:27
Speaker 1: thoughts on the Tigers. Let's just say Trek Scooble re
12:32
Speaker 1: signs with the Tigers. Let's just say in that hypothetical scenario,
12:36
Speaker 1: we'll look back at fromber, We'll look back at the
12:38
Speaker 1: McGonagall extension as signs that the Tigers were willing to
12:42
Speaker 1: play ball for that. So we're not gonna make this
12:44
Speaker 1: about Trek Schouble, but I'm just saying, like, now the
12:47
Speaker 1: Tigers are open up, open up their wallets, and their
12:50
Speaker 1: willingness is probably just as important as the as the wallet.
12:55
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe this is a sign of things to come
12:57
Speaker 1: or maybe that maybe maybe not, but just you know.
13:01
Speaker 3: That's what a lot the mind goes after that.
13:03
Speaker 2: Is right, Yeah, And I don't even really want to
13:06
Speaker 2: speculate on that. I would say, I think these are
13:09
Speaker 2: two different situations, two different philosophies. Really, this is the acquired,
13:16
Speaker 2: develop retain young talent. The Schooble deal is like, do
13:20
Speaker 2: you want to pay a pitcher who will be in
13:22
Speaker 2: his thirties forty plus million a year? Terrek Scouble might
13:27
Speaker 2: just be well worth that, but just philosophically from a
13:30
Speaker 2: team building standpoint, it's a little bit different than paying
13:35
Speaker 2: a little bit more early to ensure you get a
13:37
Speaker 2: position player for their prime years. Well, we're talking about
13:41
Speaker 2: the Tigers are moving a little bit differently these days.
13:43
Speaker 2: So if you want to hold out some hope that
13:45
Speaker 2: they could at least be in the running to keep
13:47
Speaker 2: Trek scruble. I mean, here is here's a piece of evidence.
13:54
Speaker 3: Very true.
13:54
Speaker 1: And mcgonaldo's career is often running and I'm excited to
13:59
Speaker 1: watch it because he's been, he's been.
14:00
Speaker 3: There's been no disappointment with him. He's obviously you.
14:03
Speaker 1: Know, he had an air on Tuesday night, like he's
14:05
Speaker 1: he's gonna go through rough stretches, but damn it is
14:09
Speaker 1: he a draw? You bet you can't go anywhere when
14:11
Speaker 1: he's at the plate, and then even and then even
14:13
Speaker 1: in the field, Like I just feel like he's a
14:15
Speaker 1: fun player. The watching Now the Tigers, we'll get to
14:18
Speaker 1: put him out there and Tigers fans will get to
14:20
Speaker 1: watch him for another eight years guarantee. All Right, so
14:26
Speaker 1: this is a breaking news portion of our podcast. We
14:28
Speaker 1: had just got done recording our midweek podcast, which we
14:31
Speaker 1: talked about Tuesday's game and then a little thought exercise
14:34
Speaker 1: regarding another shortstop on the team, although not currently playing shortstop,
14:38
Speaker 1: Javier Bayaz uh So, hope you guys enjoyed that, but
14:42
Speaker 1: we wanted to come in here and give an instant
14:45
Speaker 1: reaction for you guys regarding Kevin McGonagall, which again eight
14:48
Speaker 1: years one hundred and fifty million dollar contract extension could
14:51
Speaker 1: be worth up to one hundred and sixty million, So
14:53
Speaker 1: that is a sign enough for the Kevin McGonagall portion
14:56
Speaker 1: of the podcast. Please stay tuned for us talking about
14:58
Speaker 1: Tuesday Night and hobby bias, and welcome into another episode
15:13
Speaker 1: of Tiger Territory for the Foul Territory Network, Tiger's podcast,
15:17
Speaker 1: I'm Curious Actly with me is always a man who
15:19
Speaker 1: has never unintentionally lost a pen. He is Cody statement, Eggan,
15:23
Speaker 1: how you doing?
15:24
Speaker 2: I have lost a ton of pintons, man, I just
15:26
Speaker 2: can't keep track of them for some reason.
15:30
Speaker 3: No, it's very difficult. It's very difficult.
15:32
Speaker 4: All right.
15:32
Speaker 3: We are recording this Wednesday morning.
15:35
Speaker 1: So you know, last night we we wanted to do
15:38
Speaker 1: like a little bit of a thought exercise with this episode,
15:40
Speaker 1: and if we did one post game, we kind of
15:43
Speaker 1: figured we would just like latch onto everything that you
15:45
Speaker 1: know happened, you know, on Tuesday night. But we are
15:48
Speaker 1: gonna mention, you know, you know, some some fun events
15:50
Speaker 1: from Tuesday Night. But there is like a grander thought
15:53
Speaker 1: exercise that will do in the second half of this podcast.
15:55
Speaker 1: But but first off, Cody had two to one you know,
15:58
Speaker 1: fast and exciting and and and and historic. There I
16:02
Speaker 1: say victory for the Tigers. In regards to how it ended. Uh,
16:07
Speaker 1: it's funny. I talked last time we we pressed record,
16:12
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, this wasn't even like the
16:14
Speaker 1: gritty Tigs. This was just like a really good team
16:17
Speaker 1: kind of going out and playing really good baseball.
16:20
Speaker 3: And then the next game they just do like the old.
16:23
Speaker 1: Fashioned gritty Tigs when get you know, hold hold the
16:28
Speaker 1: uh hold the opponent to you know, in this case
16:30
Speaker 1: one run, but a few runs and then have the
16:32
Speaker 1: comeback late with some some opportune based running and some
16:37
Speaker 1: some timely hitting.
16:38
Speaker 3: So uh, maybe maybe.
16:40
Speaker 1: That's the way to start out the Tigers. They're still gritty.
16:42
Speaker 1: They're they're they're they're they're still gritty. After all, they
16:45
Speaker 1: could be good and gritty as.
16:46
Speaker 2: We say, yeah, yeah, care. I think the best version
16:49
Speaker 2: of this team like maintains the gritty Tigs element and
16:53
Speaker 2: just kind of, you know, raises the bar a little bit,
16:56
Speaker 2: has a little more star power, maybe just runs teams
17:00
Speaker 2: off the field a little bit more often. Now, we
17:02
Speaker 2: haven't seen a ton of that yet, And for a stretch,
17:05
Speaker 2: especially in Minnesota, we saw the bad version of the Tigers,
17:09
Speaker 2: but I think it's good as we kind of talked
17:12
Speaker 2: about to see that brand of play. I thought that
17:15
Speaker 2: Tuesday game was just like the quintessential Tigers when it
17:18
Speaker 2: felt like going back to the September of twenty twenty four,
17:22
Speaker 2: where it's like it's the eighth inning, they're losing, but
17:26
Speaker 2: you just kind of felt like they were going to
17:28
Speaker 2: find a way, and sure enough, they did find a way.
17:31
Speaker 2: And it was Zach McKinstry with a great read on
17:33
Speaker 2: the ball, it's a score on a ball in the dirt.
17:36
Speaker 2: And was Kevin McGonagall going scoring from first on a
17:40
Speaker 2: ball Dylan Dingler just ripped down the line. And it
17:42
Speaker 2: wasn't necessarily I mean, mcgonagall's might be a star and
17:46
Speaker 2: Dylan Dingler is kind of becoming a star in his
17:49
Speaker 2: own right. But it wasn't you know, it wasn't even
17:52
Speaker 2: Riley Green, or it wasn't you know, some big name.
17:55
Speaker 2: It was kind of just these guys. You had a rookie,
17:57
Speaker 2: you had a third year catcher, you had you're do
18:01
Speaker 2: it all utility guy in McKinstry kind of leading the
18:04
Speaker 2: way toward that victory. You had great pitching even if
18:08
Speaker 2: it wasn't electric from Braveldis struck out one guy over
18:11
Speaker 2: seven innings, but just kept getting balls on the ground.
18:15
Speaker 2: And then Will Vest real quick, kind of an acknowledgment
18:20
Speaker 2: to will Vest, who was not good in Minnesota, and
18:23
Speaker 2: I talked about being worried for him. Vest was one
18:26
Speaker 2: of the guys hit with a stomach bug that's kind
18:28
Speaker 2: of gone through the team. I think he said he
18:30
Speaker 2: lost like seven pounds. So if you want to know
18:32
Speaker 2: why he came out throwing like ninety three in Minnesota,
18:35
Speaker 2: that was probably why. I still want to see like
18:37
Speaker 2: ninety eight, ninety nine all of us. But hey, ninety
18:40
Speaker 2: six with a nasty slider, good steps, struck out the side,
18:44
Speaker 2: best outing he's had in a while. All around a
18:47
Speaker 2: really good game, and here the Tigers are on a
18:49
Speaker 2: little bit of a winning streak.
18:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, a couple a couple of times I thought,
18:56
Speaker 1: man is from We're about to be mad at the
18:59
Speaker 1: at the scouting step because it just seems like a
19:01
Speaker 1: lot of these ground balls are finding holes, now you
19:04
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like, you know, going against the
19:06
Speaker 1: skying report a little bit. But obviously he was able
19:09
Speaker 1: to regroup seven innings seven strong endings. Like you said,
19:12
Speaker 1: I did laugh about Kevin McGonagall. Like the foot speed.
19:17
Speaker 1: There's just more examples of the foot speed and the
19:19
Speaker 1: sprint speed. The foot speed would be getting out of
19:21
Speaker 1: the way of getting out of.
19:23
Speaker 3: The batter's box.
19:24
Speaker 1: I mean he sprinted out of that batter's box to
19:26
Speaker 1: clear the path for uh mckin street to get to
19:30
Speaker 1: get home, even though obviously there wasn't a play. And
19:32
Speaker 1: then fast enough, you know, and obviously the Royals no speed.
19:35
Speaker 1: They have this guy named Bobby wit Junior on the team.
19:37
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever heard of him, but
19:39
Speaker 1: you know, getting around the bases fast enough that you
19:42
Speaker 1: know they cut off the throw.
19:44
Speaker 3: It wasn't you know, Dan Diggerson, God bless him. I
19:46
Speaker 3: love listening to him.
19:47
Speaker 1: He's like, throw it in the plate, and it's like
19:49
Speaker 1: it wasn't at the plate. They cut it off because
19:51
Speaker 1: they didn't even bother. They didn't even bother trying to
19:54
Speaker 1: throw out m McGonagall in that situation.
19:56
Speaker 3: So uh, overall a real fun game. And then you know.
20:00
Speaker 1: The historic piece to this, Cody got to see ken
20:04
Speaker 1: Lee Jansen get into sole possession of third place on
20:08
Speaker 1: the Old Time saves list, and that's probably the biggest
20:12
Speaker 1: story of the game. I mean, he is a remarkable story.
20:16
Speaker 1: Jason Bonnetti put it really put it really great on
20:19
Speaker 1: the TV broadcast, and then you wrote a story that's
20:21
Speaker 1: available on the Athletic of just like I don't know,
20:24
Speaker 1: sometimes we take certain things for granted and think maybe
20:28
Speaker 1: these guys just have it all cush, you know, and
20:31
Speaker 1: to get to for ken Lee, to get to this
20:34
Speaker 1: point has not been some cush journey, and it seems
20:38
Speaker 1: like he's aware of that, and it seems like he
20:40
Speaker 1: was pretty reflective with you guys.
20:42
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's fascinating talking to Kenley Jensen. Here he is
20:45
Speaker 2: passing Lee Smith for third on the all time save list,
20:48
Speaker 2: and he gets going about moments you know, people thought
20:52
Speaker 2: he might be done, or he himself thought he was done.
20:55
Speaker 2: He talked about kind of the low point of his career,
20:57
Speaker 2: which was after the twenty twenty World Series. He did
21:01
Speaker 2: not record the final out of that World Series. He
21:03
Speaker 2: had struggled, he had kind of lost the closure role
21:06
Speaker 2: to Julio Urius, and he was basically, you know, I
21:11
Speaker 2: think we can use the word depressed, like at that
21:13
Speaker 2: point in his career, he had a lot of self doubt.
21:17
Speaker 2: And let's keep in mind he was thirty two, thirty three,
21:20
Speaker 2: he had been at the Sports Apex, he had been
21:23
Speaker 2: an elite closer here. A lot of athletes struggle with this,
21:26
Speaker 2: and oftentimes it's early in their career, in their careers
21:29
Speaker 2: as they're trying to find their footing. Kenley Jansen kind
21:32
Speaker 2: of in the middle of his career, had to do
21:34
Speaker 2: a complete mental reset. He sought therapy. He started, you know,
21:40
Speaker 2: getting off social media, doing breathing exercises, doing meditation, put
21:44
Speaker 2: in a lot of work to get in a better
21:46
Speaker 2: place mentally. He called it like losing a couple pounds
21:50
Speaker 2: up here in your mind. He is kind of like
21:52
Speaker 2: running a bunch of stuff through a paper shredder just
21:55
Speaker 2: to kind of get rid of it, get in a
21:57
Speaker 2: more clear space. And so that's what he's thinking about
22:00
Speaker 2: on the night he passes Lee Smith as pretty interesting,
22:04
Speaker 2: pretty enlightening, and I think maybe more interesting that he
22:08
Speaker 2: shared some version of that message with his teammates in
22:11
Speaker 2: the clubhouse. I think it was pretty quick, it was
22:13
Speaker 2: pretty brief, but whatever he said talking about his career
22:16
Speaker 2: path easy to forget. This guy came up as a
22:19
Speaker 2: catcher seemed to resonate with some of his younger teammates,
22:23
Speaker 2: and that kind of leads me to a bigger point
22:27
Speaker 2: of like, I don't know how the Kiley Jansen signing
22:30
Speaker 2: will work out long term. Like it's tough to say.
22:32
Speaker 2: I guess I'm among those who had at least some
22:34
Speaker 2: level of doubts regarding Kinley Jansen at age thirty eight,
22:38
Speaker 2: coming off a season where is underlying metrics weren't good.
22:41
Speaker 2: If he keeps throwing ninety six, things might be different.
22:45
Speaker 2: But anyway, like just to have that veteran presence that
22:50
Speaker 2: the Tigers have got in Jansen, We've seen some of
22:52
Speaker 2: it from Justin Verlander. There is a level of perspective
22:56
Speaker 2: in this room that just wasn't quite present before. For
22:59
Speaker 2: as much as the Tigers have been young and fun
23:01
Speaker 2: and gritty, I think their youth has been exposed. Their
23:04
Speaker 2: inexperience has kind of been shown up at times. To
23:08
Speaker 2: have a guy like Kinley Janssen sit in the middle
23:11
Speaker 2: of the room and kind of lay out his story
23:13
Speaker 2: and the stuff he's been through and say, hey, it's
23:15
Speaker 2: not always going to be easy, never give up. I
23:18
Speaker 2: think there's some level of value in that I wrote
23:20
Speaker 2: in this story about like you know it was it
23:23
Speaker 2: was cool hearing Kevin McGonagall say, you know, when a
23:25
Speaker 2: guy like that speaks, you want to listen to everything
23:27
Speaker 2: he says. On the list of amazing things Kevin McGonagall does,
23:31
Speaker 2: I'm glad he you know, he seemed to be so
23:34
Speaker 2: in tune and aware of that. So right now, Kevin
23:36
Speaker 2: mcgonagall's life is freaking great. Okay, just got an endorsement
23:41
Speaker 2: with the Mercedes Benz dealership. Like he's about to do
23:44
Speaker 2: a baid card signing. Everything he does on the you know,
23:46
Speaker 2: everything he touches turns to gold. He's twenty one. He's
23:49
Speaker 2: on top of the world in some form or fashion,
23:52
Speaker 2: whether it's through struggles or maybe just the unfortunately seen
23:56
Speaker 2: it happen a lot with athletes, like the the the
23:59
Speaker 2: costs of success and fame, like there will be a
24:02
Speaker 2: time where things aren't so easy for Kevin McGonagall, And
24:06
Speaker 2: I think it's good that he's hearing lessons like this
24:09
Speaker 2: from a guy like Kenley Jansen right now. I think
24:11
Speaker 2: there's something intangible about that that could have some real
24:15
Speaker 2: value for this team.
24:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, value is a good word there and
24:21
Speaker 1: I'll add one more thing about ken Lee. Sometimes we
24:26
Speaker 1: also assume that the older player is, you know, going
24:31
Speaker 1: to do sort of the mentor thing, you know, I mean,
24:34
Speaker 1: the wisdom thing, and it really, you know, just become
24:38
Speaker 1: an older player and all of a sudden want to
24:40
Speaker 1: like impart wisdom on younger players. You have to actually
24:43
Speaker 1: want to do it. There are plenty of examples of
24:45
Speaker 1: guys that don't actually want to do that. They just
24:48
Speaker 1: want to maintain their level of play as long as
24:51
Speaker 1: they can and not have any other distraction.
24:54
Speaker 3: So the fact that ken.
24:54
Speaker 1: Lee is so willing to do this, that is in
24:58
Speaker 1: part like an immeasure value of him in the clubhouse
25:02
Speaker 1: in addition to what he can do.
25:05
Speaker 3: On the field.
25:06
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to take a quick break,
25:09
Speaker 1: and then after we'll get to some more toblical notes
25:12
Speaker 1: and then a thought exercise to close out the podcast.
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Speaker 3: Him we sent you all right, coming back here.
26:23
Speaker 1: Had some news before the game, Cody first, the shorter
26:27
Speaker 1: term one Jami Jones that was you know, it's funny.
26:29
Speaker 1: Twitter creates sort of like moment in moments in time
26:33
Speaker 1: where everyone's kind of focused on the same thing, and
26:35
Speaker 1: then like forty five minutes later, like we get an
26:38
Speaker 1: explanation and then we kind of forget. But Jami Jones,
26:40
Speaker 1: you know, this is a lefty, you know, we got
26:42
Speaker 1: leftis coming up here for the first time all year,
26:45
Speaker 1: and Jami Jones not in the lineup. That was again
26:47
Speaker 1: like kind of a curious case for about forty five
26:50
Speaker 1: minutes to an hour. Then we find out he has
26:52
Speaker 1: an illness, so that that would explain that. And uh
26:56
Speaker 1: and then Labor Torres every single time Fromber has been
27:01
Speaker 1: on the mound has been in the lineup, Torres has
27:04
Speaker 1: but as a dh so uh so Jabai Jones. Hopefully
27:09
Speaker 1: he feels better. It sounds like it was an unpleasant
27:12
Speaker 1: situation than Labor Torres gets a little every fifth day,
27:15
Speaker 1: gets to be a little lighter on his feet.
27:18
Speaker 3: Is that Is that a coincidence?
27:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, just kind of feel for Jami Jones, who's barely
27:23
Speaker 2: gotten to play, who's been under scrutiny from fans for
27:27
Speaker 2: not having a hit, you know, in a really small
27:30
Speaker 2: sample and some really tough situations against some really tough relievers.
27:34
Speaker 2: You want to see this guy get at least some
27:36
Speaker 2: level at that's getting rhythm. Hopefully he will be feeling
27:39
Speaker 2: okay later in this series and can get to play
27:42
Speaker 2: a little bit, we'll see the glabor thing. I think
27:45
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear a J Hines preferred defense behind groundball
27:49
Speaker 2: specialist fromber Valdez. It's McGonagall at third, Hobby at short,
27:53
Speaker 2: McKinstry at second to work at first. Could that change?
27:59
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, you never know what goes through
28:01
Speaker 2: the mind of AJ Hinch, but seems like that's what
28:04
Speaker 2: he've used us his best in field defense and look
28:06
Speaker 2: like it's not going out on the limb to say
28:08
Speaker 2: Glaber is not a great defensive second basement, so he's
28:11
Speaker 2: probably not going to be in the field behind from
28:14
Speaker 2: or very often.
28:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the longer term piece of this is
28:21
Speaker 1: Parker Meadows. He did end up having surgery on his
28:25
Speaker 1: broken left arm, and I believe the direct quote from
28:30
Speaker 1: AJ Hinch is multiple months. We have it on our
28:32
Speaker 1: screen here multiple months. Obviously still hard to say what
28:36
Speaker 1: the recovery will be, but that is that as the update.
28:39
Speaker 1: So I it's just you know, Parker Metals will not
28:42
Speaker 1: be Roman center Field anytime soon. But I guess if
28:44
Speaker 1: there is a positive is that the injury happened in
28:46
Speaker 1: mid April as opposed to mid July.
28:50
Speaker 2: Yeahs AJ said he thinks Parker will be competitive again
28:54
Speaker 2: this season. I'm not sure exactly what that means, you know,
28:58
Speaker 2: and being competitive versus getting him back to a major
29:01
Speaker 2: league level of play could be two different things. It
29:03
Speaker 2: sounds like it seems like there is some hope he
29:06
Speaker 2: could come back and rejoin this team, but a tough
29:10
Speaker 2: thing to talk about when a guy's in the midst
29:12
Speaker 2: of injury. It's also like, I don't know, man, is
29:15
Speaker 2: there a chance we don't see Parker Meadows play a
29:19
Speaker 2: major league game for the Detroit Tigers again? Like that
29:23
Speaker 2: may not at all be the case. He might come
29:25
Speaker 2: back this year, he might come back next spring and
29:27
Speaker 2: tear it up and be an impact player. But unfortunately,
29:31
Speaker 2: he missed a lot of time last year. He's going
29:34
Speaker 2: to miss a lot of time this year. It's been
29:37
Speaker 2: a while since the tail end of twenty twenty four,
29:39
Speaker 2: when he was as hot as any player on your team.
29:42
Speaker 2: You have Hobby Bye as capable of playing center, You
29:45
Speaker 2: have winsl and Matt Vierling these other guys who can
29:49
Speaker 2: help fill in that role. And you have a young
29:51
Speaker 2: guy and Max Clark who's knocking increasingly loudly on the
29:55
Speaker 2: door and it's gonna be his time at some point. Now,
29:59
Speaker 2: there's a great world where Parker Meadows plays elite center
30:02
Speaker 2: field defense and Max Clark comes up and becomes your
30:05
Speaker 2: everyday right fielder. But there is also a world that
30:09
Speaker 2: starting to seem quite possible where by the time Meadows
30:13
Speaker 2: is back up to full speed, he's kind of been
30:16
Speaker 2: passed over. And what does that mean? I don't know,
30:19
Speaker 2: it's probably you know, I don't necessarily want to speculate
30:22
Speaker 2: on it too much, but it is an unfortunate reality
30:26
Speaker 2: of the injuries Parker has suffered here. What's I mean, Gosh,
30:30
Speaker 2: he had a concussion, he had a broken arm. He's
30:32
Speaker 2: got to be like, really, you know, why me? That's
30:35
Speaker 2: probably you know, you're a tough feeling to fight off.
30:39
Speaker 2: That's probably what I would be thinking. And unfortunately, this
30:43
Speaker 2: is the major leagues, and sometimes this happens to guys
30:45
Speaker 2: where if you're just hurt, you miss too much time,
30:48
Speaker 2: you don't impact the game immediately when you come back,
30:50
Speaker 2: you can get passed over. And that is that is
30:53
Speaker 2: kind of something to think about when we look at
30:56
Speaker 2: the next year plus of the franchise.
31:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I and I do think there is going
31:03
Speaker 1: to be a time that we kind of like more
31:05
Speaker 1: broadly examine all those things that you talked about. In
31:10
Speaker 1: the short term, you know, he's going to be back
31:12
Speaker 1: home in Georgia, which you know, hopefully is good for
31:15
Speaker 1: him being around family and and all that stuff. But
31:18
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, uh, you know, I
31:21
Speaker 1: hope mentally he's able to you know, rehab as well
31:24
Speaker 1: being away from the team and you know, doing all
31:27
Speaker 1: that stuff. So hopefully, hopefully everything is you know, he
31:30
Speaker 1: comes out of this, you know, bigger and better. But
31:33
Speaker 1: in the in the short term, it does leave a
31:36
Speaker 1: hole in center field. That is the past two years
31:40
Speaker 1: now been kind of I guess headline headlinely that's a
31:45
Speaker 1: not a word, but I just made it up, headlinely
31:48
Speaker 1: occupied by hobbier bias, hobby bias in this case, because
31:53
Speaker 1: it's it turns out that hobby bias added an elm
32:00
Speaker 1: of like, uh, added to what an asset he is
32:04
Speaker 1: to the organization over the past couple of years and
32:06
Speaker 1: what he can and the fact that he can play
32:08
Speaker 1: center field. All right, like like you know, we're gonna,
32:12
Speaker 1: we're gonna this is the thought exercise we're gonna kind
32:14
Speaker 1: of walk through a little bit just like the the
32:18
Speaker 1: Hobby Javier Baya's journey in his time with the Tigers,
32:22
Speaker 1: and sort of pose the question like has it has
32:27
Speaker 1: enough good happened to at least open up the door
32:30
Speaker 1: of re examining what how to feel about the hobber
32:35
Speaker 1: hovey time in Detroit. And this is, of course, he's
32:38
Speaker 1: got another year left on his contract after this season,
32:40
Speaker 1: So I guess the way to kind of start out,
32:44
Speaker 1: Cody is, how do you how would you if I
32:49
Speaker 1: just said, like, you know, like your life depended on it?
32:54
Speaker 1: You have four sentences? How do you define the hobvier
32:56
Speaker 1: Baia's tenure in Detroit? Because it's actually more difficult than
33:03
Speaker 1: one would think if you're gonna be fair, because I'll
33:06
Speaker 1: just kind of throw it out here. In twenty twenty two,
33:09
Speaker 1: it's obviously a disappointing year, but he was kind of the.
33:12
Speaker 3: Best of the rest.
33:13
Speaker 1: There wasn't really a whole lot going on with the
33:15
Speaker 1: team production wise. Twenty twenty three, it's kind of dire.
33:22
Speaker 1: There's some really low points in there. Twenty twenty four,
33:26
Speaker 1: he's hurt. The Tigers go on this improbable playoff run.
33:30
Speaker 3: It was almost like.
33:31
Speaker 1: An addition, by subtraction that he wasn't like with the
33:34
Speaker 1: team right.
33:36
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty five, though he kind of.
33:40
Speaker 1: He kind of moved into savior territory in a way,
33:43
Speaker 1: because I remind you who was starting in center field
33:46
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the season. Although he just had
33:48
Speaker 1: he just had himself a great moment. So I don't
33:50
Speaker 1: want to dang him too much, but can you imagined
33:53
Speaker 1: that Tigers had to try it out there Ryan Kreidler
33:55
Speaker 1: on a near daily basis in center field, and the
33:59
Speaker 1: fact that Hobby became a center fielder forever it's worth,
34:03
Speaker 1: became an All star starting center fielder. I just feel like,
34:09
Speaker 1: can't be a like, can't be dismissed in the overall
34:13
Speaker 1: Hobby story. So that and then obviously twenty twenty six
34:17
Speaker 1: we might have some of the same as twenty twenty five.
34:20
Speaker 1: This might just be like the new chapter for Hobby.
34:23
Speaker 1: So anyway, how would you kind of you've been there
34:26
Speaker 1: the whole time, We've been there the whole time. How
34:29
Speaker 1: would you classify Hobby buys his time in Detroit?
34:35
Speaker 2: How would I sum it up in a few words?
34:36
Speaker 2: Never a dull moment in a way probably could have
34:41
Speaker 2: predicted that from the beginning. In a way, it's had
34:44
Speaker 2: many more twists and turns than we probably ever could
34:47
Speaker 2: have fathomed. Who would have thought, you know, back in
34:50
Speaker 2: before the twenty twenty two season, that Hobby would be
34:55
Speaker 2: playing center field, that he would be kind of a
34:59
Speaker 2: role player as a utility player on what's a really
35:02
Speaker 2: good team. Who would have thought in twenty twenty three
35:05
Speaker 2: or twenty twenty four that the Tigers would be kind
35:09
Speaker 2: of glad Hobby Bias is around, Like, and it's tough
35:13
Speaker 2: because like, is this a good contract? No, Hobby's been
35:17
Speaker 2: worth four war in five plus seasons. Like, it's a
35:20
Speaker 2: terrible contract. You're paying them a ton. But he in
35:25
Speaker 2: his own way, as we kind of talked about back then,
35:28
Speaker 2: like if you just reframe expectations, there's a path to viability,
35:33
Speaker 2: and Hobby has certainly found that path. And you're right,
35:36
Speaker 2: this simple fact that emerged that he could play center
35:38
Speaker 2: field changes so much about this team, about this roster.
35:42
Speaker 2: You feel like you have another potentially plus defender in
35:48
Speaker 2: center field. What will you get out him of get
35:52
Speaker 2: out of him at the plate? I mean, you never
35:56
Speaker 2: really know, but he's off to a good start this year,
35:58
Speaker 2: which you will certainly take. I'm not necessarily excited about
36:02
Speaker 2: what he's going to contribute offensively, but there is at
36:05
Speaker 2: least something in there which was important that he showed
36:09
Speaker 2: this spring, and he showed it. So yeah. I mean,
36:12
Speaker 2: he's still kind of at the center of your whole puzzle,
36:15
Speaker 2: whether it's how much he's going to play shortstop with
36:16
Speaker 2: McGonagall and the team, or now is he basically your
36:19
Speaker 2: everyday center fielder. I think he's going to get a
36:22
Speaker 2: chance to be something close to that, provided he can
36:26
Speaker 2: somewhat hold his own at the plate. It's really fascinating.
36:30
Speaker 2: I love covering Hovey, I love writing about him. I
36:34
Speaker 2: wonder what it's really like to be his teammate. Like
36:37
Speaker 2: I'd imagine there are probably certain things Hobvey does really okay,
36:40
Speaker 2: really like you know, Hobvey, let's just be real. Hobby
36:43
Speaker 2: gets away with some stuff that other players probably just
36:45
Speaker 2: couldn't really get away with. But at the same time
36:48
Speaker 2: he probably be like, man, no, I kind of love
36:50
Speaker 2: having Hobby on my team. You know, how could you
36:53
Speaker 2: not love having Hovey baias on your Team's That's kind
36:57
Speaker 2: of how I feel about it.
37:00
Speaker 1: Center still center of the puzzle. That's that's such a
37:03
Speaker 1: good way to put it, because because like one of
37:07
Speaker 1: the things that I maintained over the years, and this
37:10
Speaker 1: is I mean, obviously I've gotten a lot wrong, but
37:12
Speaker 1: this is something that I do feel that I got right,
37:15
Speaker 1: was that you can still have this Hobby bias situation
37:20
Speaker 1: and the team grow around him into being a contender.
37:23
Speaker 1: And obviously that's something that has happened over the past
37:26
Speaker 1: couple of years. There is value in Hobby. He's still
37:32
Speaker 1: a draw, like he's been a draw. I remember I
37:34
Speaker 1: went to the MLB All Star Experience when in twenty
37:38
Speaker 1: twenty four when it was about as low as it
37:40
Speaker 1: could get for Hobby, right, and they had banners of
37:43
Speaker 1: him like around you know what I mean, like major
37:46
Speaker 1: League Baseball. They still identified him as a guy to
37:49
Speaker 1: promote even at that time. At It's also worth remembering
37:56
Speaker 1: that the Tigers had no good shortstop options at that
37:59
Speaker 1: time of you know, going into that free agency class,
38:01
Speaker 1: like they were kind of hamstrung by their own incompetence
38:05
Speaker 1: at that time, right, And so that that's part of
38:07
Speaker 1: the path that led Hobby to being here.
38:09
Speaker 3: So in a way, he did provide stability at.
38:12
Speaker 1: You know, one of the most you know, one of,
38:13
Speaker 1: if not the most marquee position on the field. The
38:17
Speaker 1: flair stuff he is that goes into him being a draw.
38:21
Speaker 1: And then two things like you know how you said,
38:25
Speaker 1: like how is it being his teammate.
38:27
Speaker 3: Obviously we have no actual idea, but Hobby has.
38:30
Speaker 1: Been a shield, probably unintentionally, but he has been a
38:35
Speaker 1: shield for guys like Riley Green to try to get
38:38
Speaker 1: their footing in Major League Baseball, for guys like Spectro Torgelsen,
38:42
Speaker 1: who obviously has seen the low we talk about the
38:44
Speaker 1: lows of the game, has seen the lows of the
38:46
Speaker 1: game and emerged. And you know, those guys weren't lacking
38:50
Speaker 1: for talking points, but the fact that Hobby was here
38:52
Speaker 1: always met there was something else to draw the the
38:55
Speaker 1: ire or the eye. And then again like the un
39:00
Speaker 1: selfishness like to change positions at that point in his career.
39:04
Speaker 3: We talk about team chemistry.
39:07
Speaker 1: Whether that's like something that they just say, I don't know,
39:10
Speaker 1: they say it enough that I guess we have to
39:12
Speaker 1: give it some credence. But those two things would contribute it,
39:16
Speaker 1: in my mind to having a more positive outlook of
39:19
Speaker 1: having Hobby as a teammate. And I think back to
39:22
Speaker 1: to Game four of the Alds when the Tigers, you know,
39:26
Speaker 1: they put Hobby and Riley Green up on the on
39:29
Speaker 1: the podium there, and like, you know, it's the future
39:33
Speaker 1: of the franchise and the and the marquee free agent signing,
39:37
Speaker 1: and they're both kind of sharing in this moment, Like
39:39
Speaker 1: if you would have put that picture up there when
39:43
Speaker 1: Hobvey signed, you would have thought everything kind of went
39:46
Speaker 1: a okay, you know what I mean. And that's obviously
39:48
Speaker 1: an oversimplification, but even in that moment, Hobby was like, yeah,
39:51
Speaker 1: it's fine, I you know, I take the booze. Like
39:54
Speaker 1: it was really self reflective. You could tell that Riley
39:57
Speaker 1: still kind of like deferred to Hobby a little bit.
40:00
Speaker 3: He still has that or about him. Is that worth
40:03
Speaker 3: six for one forty?
40:04
Speaker 1: Probably not, But at the same time, like it would
40:07
Speaker 1: like that that ink is dry. So where are you
40:10
Speaker 1: getting value? You're getting value in those ways, and I
40:12
Speaker 1: think that's worth mentioning.
40:14
Speaker 4: Yeah.
40:15
Speaker 2: I said that at the time with the Riley Green thing,
40:17
Speaker 2: And I think if I were, like, you know, in
40:19
Speaker 2: that clubhouse now, I would tell guys like, hey, pay
40:23
Speaker 2: pay attention to Hovey, like, think about what he's been
40:27
Speaker 2: through in his career a little bit. It's like the
40:29
Speaker 2: Kinley Jansen thing. Hovey Bias is not the most vocal leader.
40:33
Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to stand in the middle
40:35
Speaker 2: of the clubhouse and open up his soul like Kinley Jansen.
40:38
Speaker 2: It just did. But this is another guy who has
40:41
Speaker 2: seen it all, been through it all, been criticized as
40:45
Speaker 2: much as almost any player in baseball, I would say,
40:49
Speaker 2: and learned how to let certain things roll off his back,
40:53
Speaker 2: learned how to let certain things fuel him, learned how
40:56
Speaker 2: to handle it like last year and going into this year,
40:59
Speaker 2: I think a little bit of an issue was like
41:01
Speaker 2: some of these young players experiencing criticism or the weight
41:05
Speaker 2: of expectations for the first time. You want to know
41:08
Speaker 2: how to handle that. You might not see it from
41:10
Speaker 2: him vocally, but just like think about it, watch Hovey
41:14
Speaker 2: Bias a little bit. This guy's been through it, whether
41:17
Speaker 2: you know it or not, whether Hobvey is like the
41:19
Speaker 2: vocal leader or not. Again, I think there's some level
41:22
Speaker 2: of value there. And now you have Hobby, you have Verland,
41:25
Speaker 2: or you have Jansen, you even have Kyle Finnigan Now
41:28
Speaker 2: it's not just Hovey Bias who has been through it.
41:31
Speaker 2: You have a lot of guys who know what it
41:34
Speaker 2: takes to be great at this level, and that is
41:37
Speaker 2: something that might just end up being valuable when all
41:41
Speaker 2: of a sudden done.
41:45
Speaker 1: I bring up the context a lot with with Hobby
41:48
Speaker 1: because it's important to note just like where we were at,
41:55
Speaker 1: you know, covering this team, watching this team when when
41:58
Speaker 1: he was signed, and then like what the other options were,
42:02
Speaker 1: so it was a historic you know, shortstop free agent class,
42:08
Speaker 1: Carlos Korea, Trevors story obviously, Bias, Corey Seeger. You throw
42:12
Speaker 1: Marcus Simeon in there just because, like you know, middle endfielder,
42:15
Speaker 1: even though no one really ticketed him as a as
42:17
Speaker 1: a full time shortstop, but a short stop.
42:20
Speaker 3: I mean he could have been, but I don't think
42:22
Speaker 3: it was. It's just like a tier.
42:26
Speaker 1: Below like these guys where it's like shortstop or nothing.
42:28
Speaker 1: I guess would be like the.
42:29
Speaker 2: I mean, Cory Seger should probably be playing third base.
42:32
Speaker 2: But okay, don't don't don't get me off on this.
42:35
Speaker 3: We're into the weeds now.
42:38
Speaker 1: But every but every single one of those like you know,
42:42
Speaker 1: signings and sense or whatever, has come with some sort
42:46
Speaker 1: of yeah, but right, Carlos Korea did the whole player
42:49
Speaker 1: option thing, and and now he's back at you know
42:51
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Now he's back in Houston. You know,
42:53
Speaker 1: Minnesota had the dump salary and and and.
42:57
Speaker 3: You know, how is Carlos Kraja feeling these days? I
43:00
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know how he's feeling.
43:01
Speaker 2: But the Tigers would have signed Carlos Korea to the
43:04
Speaker 2: ten years, three hundred plus million he reportedly wanted. That
43:09
Speaker 2: would be a train wreck.
43:12
Speaker 1: That yes, yes, that would be a train wreck. Corey
43:14
Speaker 1: seeger Marcus Simeon. Look, they led the Texas Rangers to
43:19
Speaker 1: a World Series championship the first time in franchise history.
43:22
Speaker 1: That's the old time, like we you know, mission accomplished.
43:26
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to take anything away from that.
43:29
Speaker 1: But talk about chemistry. Somebody had a chemistry problem on
43:32
Speaker 1: that team because they traded Marcus Simeon too the New
43:34
Speaker 1: York Mets. There was a chemistry problem. I'm not going
43:37
Speaker 1: to say who, but there was a chemistry problem. And
43:40
Speaker 1: by the way, here's a funny stat since you know
43:43
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two on I didn't include this year's games.
43:47
Speaker 1: But from the twenty twenty two season on, the Rangers
43:52
Speaker 1: and the Tigers have the same.
43:53
Speaker 3: Amount of regular season wins.
43:55
Speaker 1: Wow, so you spend ten if you're the Rangers, ten
44:01
Speaker 1: for three twenty five and seven for one seventy five
44:03
Speaker 1: for uh Seeger and Simeon.
44:05
Speaker 3: You did get a World Series.
44:07
Speaker 1: I'm not discounting the World Series at all, but you
44:09
Speaker 1: also haven't made the playoffs any other year than that,
44:11
Speaker 1: and you have the same amount of wins as as
44:13
Speaker 1: the Tigers, who have have definitely felt worse during.
44:18
Speaker 3: That period of time.
44:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, with the with the hobby situation and then Trevor story,
44:22
Speaker 1: like you know, he's had good seasons, but there was
44:25
Speaker 1: you know, there was a weird arm thing at the beginning.
44:27
Speaker 1: There there's an element is he blocking anybody right now?
44:30
Speaker 1: They don't really know what to do. So you know,
44:32
Speaker 1: with some of these prospects, and you know, they made
44:34
Speaker 1: the postseason one time, you know, since since they since
44:38
Speaker 1: they acquired him. Now he did hit well, you had
44:40
Speaker 1: three eighty five in the wild Card. But still and
44:43
Speaker 1: then like I said, Carl's Korea, and I don't count
44:45
Speaker 1: Francisco Lindoor because he he was kind of a part
44:47
Speaker 1: of it, but he you know, signed an extension. But
44:49
Speaker 1: I can tell you they're not loving Francisco Lindoor in
44:51
Speaker 1: New York right now. I know that for a fact.
44:53
Speaker 1: So uh, basically everything comes with some sort of baggage here.
44:56
Speaker 1: Only you know, at the time, we just thought like, oh,
44:59
Speaker 1: Carl's career, boom, let's go. No one really thought Seger
45:02
Speaker 1: was coming to Detroit. But you know, Seeger, you know,
45:05
Speaker 1: let's go. And there's baggage with every single one of them.
45:07
Speaker 1: So I just think that's I don't know more more
45:10
Speaker 1: perspective that I think is kind of important.
45:13
Speaker 2: Somewhere Scott Harris, or like the league officials who want
45:16
Speaker 2: a salary cap or just like see you know, they
45:18
Speaker 2: think these big contracts are terrible. And in a way
45:22
Speaker 2: that is a little bit of a lesson because everyone
45:24
Speaker 2: wanted Carlos Korea and everyone wanted, you know, to sign
45:27
Speaker 2: these big deals and including you know, the hobby Bias deal.
45:31
Speaker 2: And although Seeger is still really good and then Door
45:34
Speaker 2: is still really good, like they're still getting paid for
45:36
Speaker 2: a while, like yeah, that shortstop class man has has
45:40
Speaker 2: not been has not worked out like to the level
45:43
Speaker 2: that that anyone would have thought at the time.
45:47
Speaker 1: If anybody comments on the YouTube for this episode and says, see,
45:51
Speaker 1: that's why the Tigers drapped high school shortstops every year.
45:54
Speaker 3: Made that name. That's Scott Harris, that's his burner. That's
45:57
Speaker 3: what you know. We found you out, book, We found
46:00
Speaker 3: you out.
46:02
Speaker 1: I did want to read this. This is from your colleague, Chris,
46:05
Speaker 1: Chris Kershner. This is from July of July twenty seventh,
46:10
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, so right before the trade deadline the
46:13
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four season, And I'm just gonna read it,
46:17
Speaker 1: and I just want everybody to just kind of have
46:19
Speaker 1: their organic reaction. This was a male bad question, obviously,
46:22
Speaker 1: Yankees fan. He covers the Yankees, does Chris Yankees fan
46:26
Speaker 1: saying why don't we trade for Javier Bias? You know
46:28
Speaker 1: we can unlock his bat. He's excellent in the field.
46:30
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
46:31
Speaker 1: Again give him my July late July twenty twenty four.
46:35
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you're being sarcastic. John John Be the
46:38
Speaker 1: person who submitted the question. Of all players with at
46:41
Speaker 1: least two hundred played appearances this season, Bias ranks dead
46:44
Speaker 1: last in WRC plus. He has unquestionably been one of
46:48
Speaker 1: the worst major league regulars since signing with the Detroit Tigers.
46:52
Speaker 1: Even if the Tigers wanted to pay his entire salary
46:55
Speaker 1: and give the Yankees an extra ten million out of
46:58
Speaker 1: the kindness of their hearts, the empty roster spot is
47:01
Speaker 1: more valuable. Bias has the worst contract in baseball and
47:05
Speaker 1: possibly holds the title for the worst deal out of
47:08
Speaker 1: any player in North American Sports. The most untradable player
47:12
Speaker 1: in the game is Detroit to keep until the Tigers
47:15
Speaker 1: eventually designate him for assignment.
47:20
Speaker 3: Who that was fire. That was fire from.
47:22
Speaker 6: Chris and didn't seem all that wrong at the time,
47:26
Speaker 6: did not seem worst contract than North American Sports or
47:30
Speaker 6: whatever is probably a step too far, but otherwise, did
47:32
Speaker 6: not really seem off base at the time.
47:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now now that we can laugh about it,
47:39
Speaker 1: because he's just like, again, that's where we were at,
47:44
Speaker 1: and look where we are now in terms of how
47:46
Speaker 1: we see Hobby Bias. And look, I don't know if
47:49
Speaker 1: this means anything, but when he plays center field for
47:52
Speaker 1: the Tigers, he bats to eighty it probably doesn't mean anything,
47:56
Speaker 1: but it is kind of funny to point out a
47:58
Speaker 1: a Tiger on on X posted that last night, so
48:01
Speaker 1: I got a chuckle out of it. He also hits
48:03
Speaker 1: for more power, in drives, in more runs, has a
48:07
Speaker 1: higher ops all that stuff. So I don't know if
48:09
Speaker 1: the means it's just obviously this is the past two seasons,
48:12
Speaker 1: so non inclusing.
48:12
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I think I've seen that going around, and
48:15
Speaker 2: the Tigers win loss record with him in center. I'm
48:19
Speaker 2: hesitant to make too much of that because like when
48:21
Speaker 2: Hovey was in center last year just seemed to kind
48:24
Speaker 2: of happen to coincide with the team being red hot
48:27
Speaker 2: and Hovey having probably the best month of his entire
48:31
Speaker 2: Tigers tenure. Now if it happens again, let's say this
48:36
Speaker 2: coming month, and it's like all right, like something about
48:38
Speaker 2: this guy in center man just brings out the best
48:41
Speaker 2: of them.
48:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. And that's also part of the.
48:48
Speaker 1: Hobby experience too, is just kind of saying, yeah, I
48:50
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know why.
48:52
Speaker 2: He That's the entire essence of the whole thing.
48:58
Speaker 1: I don't know why he's so great, like you know,
49:01
Speaker 1: in the field and smooth and and by the way,
49:03
Speaker 1: I went back in preparation for this, I went back
49:06
Speaker 1: and watched Game three of the Wildcard Series at Cleveland,
49:08
Speaker 1: UH last year, last year, and you know, obviously we
49:11
Speaker 1: were both there, but I went rewatched the game and
49:14
Speaker 1: like I think I counted like four or five times
49:16
Speaker 1: that like like Hobby be like being at either at
49:20
Speaker 1: the center or like the best version of Hobby being
49:23
Speaker 1: crucial to like the most, you know, like the tags
49:25
Speaker 1: on Jose Ramirez obviously the double off the wall to
49:28
Speaker 1: start the rally, like he was what did he bad?
49:31
Speaker 1: I had it written down. I think he beat it
49:33
Speaker 1: four or fifty five in that series. So again, is
49:36
Speaker 1: this all worth six for one?
49:39
Speaker 3: Probably not, but.
49:41
Speaker 1: It hasn't been It hasn't been a zero, and he
49:43
Speaker 1: certainly isn't the worst contract in North American sports. Like
49:46
Speaker 1: there we were gonna be able to look back at
49:48
Speaker 1: the Hobby tenure, which you know, there's still probably some
49:51
Speaker 1: highs and certainly some lows to come in the next
49:54
Speaker 1: UH season, you know, season one in three quarter seasons,
49:59
Speaker 1: but it it's been there have been more highs and
50:02
Speaker 1: I think we there were times that we thought we
50:04
Speaker 1: would even get when he was getting benched and not
50:06
Speaker 1: remember how many outs there were, and you know, it
50:09
Speaker 1: just seemed it just seemed like it got really low.
50:12
Speaker 1: And to his credit, to the Tiger's credit, to AJ's credit,
50:16
Speaker 1: they've been able to Hobby's been also been able to
50:19
Speaker 1: be part of like several highs, and so that's what
50:22
Speaker 1: makes this a fun thought exercise in my opinion.
50:25
Speaker 2: Oh, like I said, I love the Hobby experience. Man.
50:28
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's incredibly frustrating, but I love it. I think
50:32
Speaker 2: maybe I'm just getting old, Like I think there aren't
50:35
Speaker 2: that many, like how many players are there still? That
50:38
Speaker 2: just kind of make you shake your head. In this
50:40
Speaker 2: age where everything is quantified, everything is measured. If a
50:44
Speaker 2: player has like a weakness, they're either targeted ways to
50:48
Speaker 2: help them improve or it's just like, all right, never
50:50
Speaker 2: swing at a slider. And like like the way we teach players,
50:53
Speaker 2: the way they come up. You know, I've been complaining
50:56
Speaker 2: about the products of the Perfect Game System. Hobby is
50:59
Speaker 2: both a creative, artful player and just a complete mystery.
51:04
Speaker 2: I feel like there were more guys like that when
51:07
Speaker 2: I was growing up, and not very many guys anymore.
51:09
Speaker 2: Maybe that's just my Like I said, I'm getting old,
51:12
Speaker 2: But I think that's what I like about Hobby there's
51:14
Speaker 2: just something about it where like it's just it's just different.
51:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again another way to sum it up is
51:23
Speaker 1: not many guys would have had the intestinal fortitude to
51:27
Speaker 1: kind of go through with what he went through and
51:29
Speaker 1: still like in year four of a contract, like have
51:33
Speaker 1: an excellent all Star season and year five of a
51:36
Speaker 1: contract be called upon again to do something completely different,
51:40
Speaker 1: like take that and stride. It's just like another thing,
51:43
Speaker 1: you know, like if you want to say something about hobby,
51:45
Speaker 1: for the most part, feels like he's been hobby a
51:48
Speaker 1: long time and he'll be hobby a long time from now.
51:52
Speaker 1: Kind of seems like the same guy. And there's there's
51:54
Speaker 1: there there is something to be.
51:56
Speaker 3: Said about that.
51:58
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I hope you guys have found that
51:59
Speaker 1: interest saying. If you vehemently disagree, vehemently agree with anything
52:03
Speaker 1: we talked about here, please let us know at Coley,
52:06
Speaker 1: David Hagen, at Quan Underscourse Dectley can comment on a
52:08
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52:11
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52:17
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52:19
Speaker 3: Coey S, David Hagen. I'm Kris Deckley. There. We have
52:22
Speaker 3: great day.