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Voddie Baucham - The Homosexual Agenda in Education · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: All right, we're doing a slight switch in this session.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: When I came in yesterday.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I forget exactly who was sharing, but they were just
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: talking about some of the legal issues and some of
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the legal ramifications of changes to the code as it
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: relates to marriage and same-sex relationships and things of this nature.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: And I've been dealing with this issue for about a
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: decade and have gone from warning Christians about what was happening,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: why it was happening, how it was happening, and what
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the implications were, to now informing Christians about what happened
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and how it happened and what the implications are. And
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: talking about how it is that we need to be
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: prepared to respond to this issue. Because the way these
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: things have come about has led to not only changes
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: in the law, but it also led to changes in
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the way even churches think about this topic of homosexuality.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: And I'll just give you an example of what has happened.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Imagine this.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Imagine I'm standing up here to preach a message about.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Adultery, right?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: And as I introduce my message on adultery, I say, listen,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I just want everybody to know I love adulterers. I
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: have friends who are adulterers. And I think that we
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: need to be kind to adulterers. We need to embrace adulterers.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that we need....
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: That would sound kind of odd, wouldn't it?
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: If I was talking about pedophilia, or if I was
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: talking about drunkenness, it would sound odd. But folks, that's
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: the way almost every sermon on homosexuality starts today.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: With a thousand....
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Explanations, and apologies for what's about to come. There's a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: reason for that. And the reason for that is the
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: same reason that causes Christians on the whole to not
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: know how to deal with this issue, to not know
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: how to think about this issue, and also to not
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: know how to respond to this issue.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Let me warn you ahead of time, not that this.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Is going to be graphic or anything like that, although
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I wrestle with that. But let me warn you that
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: we probably won't get through all of this. And as
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: far as the graphic side of it, I really wrestle
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: with whether or not this ought to be graphic.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Because one of the things I believe is I believe
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: every person, before.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: They vote on any issue regarding safe sex whatever needs
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to go to a gay parade, a gay pride parade.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: It's one of the most vulgar things you'll ever experience.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: It's nothing like the picture that's painted of the homosexual lifestyle.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's vulgar.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: And I will say this, if there was a heterosexual
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: parade and we performed some of the acts that are
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: performed in the gay pride.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Parade, we would go to jail.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Period.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: We would go to jail. But they don't. They don't.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to explain to you why. Listen to
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: this from Mark Stein.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: In the old days, there was sodomy, an act. In
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the late 19th century, the word homosexuality was coined, a condition.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: A generation ago, the accepted term became gay, an identity.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Each formulation raises the stakes. One can object to and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: even criminalize an act. One is obligated to be sympathetic
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: toward a condition, but once it's a full-fledged, 24-7 identity,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: like being Hispanic or Inuit, anything less than wholehearted acceptance
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: gets you marked as a bigot. The transformation of a
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: crime against nature, by the way, that's what sodomy means.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Sodom is a crime against nature. It's unnatural sexual acts.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: A crime against nature into a co-equal civic identity within
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: little more than the span of one human lifetime, is
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: one of the most remarkable victories ever achieved by any
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: minority group in the Western world. A minority that didn't
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: even exist in a formal sense a century ago has
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: managed to overwhelm and overhaul a universal social institution thousands
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of years old. This is what happened right before the.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Watching eyes of all of us who are alive today.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Why blackness?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: You saw the magazine article there, Gay is the New Black.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: That was from The Advocate. The Advocate was the leading
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: homosexual magazine. But why blackness? Why did they choose blackness?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: And it was chosen strategically, by the way, to hitch
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: their wagon to the black civil rights movement in the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: United States. And the gay rights movement all over the
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: world was headquartered there.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But why blackness? Listen to this from that article in
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: The Advocate.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: We have no natural allies and therefore cannot rely on
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: the assistance of any group. We have only tactical allies,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: people who do not want barbarous things done to us
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: because they fear the same thing may someday be done
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to them. So again, they're recognizing the only way that
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: we have allies is that somehow we equate ourselves with
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: something else. This is from Kirk and Madsen. Russell Kirk
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: and Hunter Madsen are two professors from Harvard University, one
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: in marketing, the other in psychology. They wrote a book
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: that was published in 1989. It was called After the Ball.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: The subtitle was How America Will Overcome Its Fear and
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Hatred of Days in the Decade of the Nineties. The
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: book was a propaganda strategy on changing the way people
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: think about homosexuality. It reads today like a historical account
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: of what happened. You have to constantly remind yourself this
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: was written in 1989.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Okay? Listen to Kirk and Madison.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: To suggest in public that homosexuality might be chosen is
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to open.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: The can of worms labeled.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Moral choice and sin and give the religious intransigence a
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: stick to beat us with. Straights must be taught that
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it is as natural for some persons to be a
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: homosexual as it is for others to be heterosexual. Wickedness
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: and seduction have nothing to do with it.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: By the way, the.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Overwhelming majority of Christians in church believe this. Kirk and
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Maxon not only didn't believe it, but according to their writing,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: they knew it not to be true and didn't care.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It was important to their strategy that you be made
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: to believe Wickedness and seduction have nothing to do with it.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: And since no choice is involved, gayness can be no
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: more blameworthy than straightness. In fact, it is simply a
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: matter of the odds, 1 in 10, as to who
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: turns out gay and who straight. Each heterosexual must be
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: led to realize that he might easily have been born
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: homosexual himself. By the way, this 1 in 10 number,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: they admit in the book that it's not accurate. Yet,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: they refer to it as a mantra that they need
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to repeat. Because if you repeat a mantra often enough,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: people begin to believe it.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And it just.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: sounds more compelling to say 1 in 10.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So they repeat, 1 in 10.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: The most widely accepted study on sexual practice in the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: United States, for example, is the National Health and Social
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Life Survey. And according to the NHSLS, only.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: 2.8% of males and.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: 1.4% of the female population identify themselves as gay, lesbian,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: or bisexual. So between 1.4 and 2.8%. That's all.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But the 1 in 10 mantra had to continually be repeated.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Listen to this, John McKellar. He's the openly homosexual founder
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: of a group called HOPE, Homosexuals Against Pride Extremism. So
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: understand that this is a practicing homosexual who's saying this.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: The modern change in opinion concerning homosexuality, though presented as
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: scientific advance, is contradicted rather than supported by science. A
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: masterful public relations campaign orchestrated by the gay pride extremists
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: has achieved a transformation in public morals consistent with widespread
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: abandonment of the Judeo-Christian ethics upon which our civilization is based.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Though hailed as progress, It is really a reversion to
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: ancient pagan practices supported by a counterculture restatement of gnostic
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: moral relativism. You need to understand that homosexual practice is
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: not new. The homosexual movement is not new. This is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: ancient paganism. that has been repackaged. This is a religious movement.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: It's always been a religious movement. It continues to be
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: a religious movement. Who are the key exponents of this
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: gay equals black ideology? Who are the people that have
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: been used to really promote this idea and establish it
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: as really an undisputed fact in the minds of most
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: people in the West? Homosexual activists, obviously. Black civil rights leaders.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Black civil rights leaders in the US were critical to
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: this because.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: The whole world looks at the.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Civil rights movement in America fondly and sees it as
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: a very important victory in human rights throughout the world. Judges,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: business and political leaders, and religious leaders. Yes, religious leaders
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: have been absolutely critical in this process. First, homosexual activists.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I've already told you about After the Ball. It's a
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: tough book to get your hands on, and it's very expensive.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: It's only a word back. I have one.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It's also a tough book to read for a number
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: of reasons, not least of which is, you realize, been
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: absolutely manipulated. But then there's also a section in it
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: where they say if the propaganda campaign was going to
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: succeed that the homosexual community needed to stop doing certain
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: things publicly. And so its description of the homosexual lifestyle
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: as it is and as they know it to be.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Is quite disturbing.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: But that's why Kirk and Madsen argue that if our
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: strategy is going to succeed, this stuff has to stop.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Being so public. The moment. What was the moment?
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Here's why they got together in 1988, these leading homosexual activists,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and created this strategy that later became Kirk and Madsen's book.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: If you remember, that's the height of the AIDS crisis. AIDS,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: though a loose canon, is a canon indeed. As cynical
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: as it may seem, AIDS gives us a chance, however brief,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to establish ourselves as a victimized minority, legitimately deserving of
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: America's special protection and care. This, therefore, is the question
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and the challenge. How can we surmount our insurmountable opportunity?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: How can we maximize the sympathy and minimize the fear? How,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: given the horrid hand that AIDS has dealt us, can
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: we best play it? And that's what they did. They
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: used the AIDS crisis to propel their movement. The method, again,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: from after the ball. The campaign we outlined in after
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the ball, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising. Propaganda,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: it's not a positive word. They acknowledge that it's not
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: a positive word. Listen to how the authors, who say
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: this is a propaganda campaign, define propaganda and the problems
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: that people have with it. Three characteristics distinguish propaganda from
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: other modes of communication and contribute to its sinister reputation.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: What are the three things? It relies on emotional manipulation.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It uses lies, like one in ten, among others, and
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: is subjective and one-sided.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: This is how they describe their campaign.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Relying on emotional manipulation, using lies, and being subjective and one-sided.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Tell our side of the story as movingly as possible.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: In the battle for hearts and minds, effective propaganda knows
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: enough to put its best foot forward. This is what
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: our own media campaign must do. and it was absolutely
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: a media campaign. Three-step process, desensitizing, jamming, and conversion. By
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: the way, these are the three steps of brainwashing. This
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: was their process. First, desensitizing. To desensitize straights to gays
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: and gayness, inundate them in a continuous flood of gay-related
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: advertising presented in the least offensive fashion possible.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: If straights can't shut off the shower.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: They may at least eventually get used to being wet.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So first, step number one, desensitize people to homosexuality. Put
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: it out there again and again and again and again
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: and again. We've been desensitized, by the way. You see
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: it everywhere. There used to be times where if you
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: saw two gay characters on a show, you would say, what,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: can you believe this? Or on a commercial for whatever.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: We'd be up in arms. You'd be writing letters.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: And now when you see it, you've been desensitized. It's worked.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: It's worked.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: You think nothing of it anymore. You think it's natural
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: and normal now. That was strategic. Use movies, television shows, commercials,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: outed actors and athletes. It's important when somebody famous oust
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: themselves as homosexuals.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: You know, Margaret Thatcher died, and our president couldn't be
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: bothered to show up, right? But a former NBA.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Player came out, and he was jumping on the spot.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Because that was an opportunity that couldn't be missed. There
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: was a homosexual football player in the draft last year.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: That was something that absolutely could not be missed. It's
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: very important.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why that in particular is important
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit later on. But the fact of the
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: matter is, making the most of these types of things
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: is another method of desensitizing and convincing people that it's everywhere.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: One in ten, right?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: It's everywhere.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Every walk of life. Desensitizing is nothing without jamming.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: What's jamming?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Well, accuse religious people. Gays can use talk to muddy
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the moral waters. That is, to undercut the rationalizations that
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: justify religious bigotry and to jam some of its psychic rewards.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So portray anti-gay institutions as antiquated, backwards, badly out of
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: step with the times, and with the latest findings in psychology.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So one of the ways you use jamming is... He says,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you know, we want to confuse the psychic rewards. So,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: you know people, nobody wants to be called a skinhead,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: nobody wants to be identified with the.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: KKK, right?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: So what you do is, when you talk about homosexuality,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and when you talk about people who are opposed to homosexuality,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: you identify them with skinheads and with the KKK and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: so and so. So that way, whenever people respond like
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: they would naturally respond, image must always be forced into
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: their mind that they're responding like these groups that none
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: of us want to be identified with, which is why
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: pastors always apologize at the beginning of a sermon about homosexuality,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: because they've been jammed. Now, we also want to present
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: these people as out of step with the latest findings
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: in psychology. And so we convince people that psychology, for example...
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: has found a biological link to homosexuality, which it has not,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: nor would it matter if it had. So we refer
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to the LaVey Brain Study, the Bailey and Pillar Twin Study,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Hamer's X-Chromosome Study, you know, Savick's Pheromone Study.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: We refer to these studies.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: By the way, when these studies come out, the news
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: media presents these studies as these groundbreaking findings, and they.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: bury the reality of what the study actually concluded, which
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: is nothing. Nothing.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: We found absolutely nothing. Which is quite interesting, because we
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: can't prove that homosexuality exists. We can prove that sodomy exists,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the act of of unnatural sex.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: But we can't prove.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: That there are people who are like this by their
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: very nature.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Because we've never found a genetic link. Why is that important?
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Because we're giving specific and special rights to a group
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: of people that we aren't even sure really exist. We
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: know there are people who practice this But again, if
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you wanna know whether or not I'm black, you can
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: test me genetically. You can see it, right? But you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: can also test me genetically to find that out. If
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: somebody says that they are part of a particular group
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of people, right? You can test them genetically to figure
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: that out. Somebody says they're gay, you just have to
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: take their word for it. You just gotta take their
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: word for it, okay? By the way, we also have
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: 2000 year old evidence that people stop it. 1 Corinthians
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: chapter six, such were some of you, right? There's never
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: been a person who stopped being black. Here's the deal,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: you test Michael Jackson's DNA, doesn't matter what he did
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to his skin, right? We always think about that, right?
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter what he did to his skin.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if a person has gender reassignment. If
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you were born XX, you stay XX. If you were
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: born XY, you stay XY. Right? But this here, there
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: are people who practice this lifestyle who don't anymore and
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: now they're married. Legitimately so. There's even a term for
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: it for a young lady. You ever heard the term lugs?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Lesbian until graduation?
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: It's a thing. It's a thing. So much of a
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: thing that there's a name for it. Okay? Alright. Last
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: step is conversion. So we have desensitizing. What is desensitizing?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Just bombard you with images so that it no longer
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: bothers you anymore.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: You get used to it. You're not even offended by it.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Your conscience gets sealed. Jamming. Jamming is we present to
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: you images.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: By the way, I was going to say, I was
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: going to explain to you why the athletes and actors
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and famous people are very important to this movement, because
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: that's part of the jamming. See, we want to think,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: especially in terms of homosexual men, we want to think
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: about limp-wristed effeminate men. Well, if a big, strong athlete
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: comes out as gay, that jams our perception.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Of who homosexuals are.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: This is why one of the ads that they proposed
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: after the ball was a cigarette ad with the Marlboro Man.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: You know the Marlboro Man, right? He's a rugged cowboy.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And so the idea was we need an ad that
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: has the rugged cowboy as being gay because that would
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: be another sort of ultimate jamming technique. They didn't do
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that ad, but they did do a movie called Brokeback Mountain,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: which was the exact same thing.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: You follow?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: That was jamming, okay? All right, last is conversion. Conversion
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: is not about making people sodomites. Both desensitization and jamming,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: though extremely useful, are mere preludes to our longest, though necessarily,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: our highest, I'm sorry, though necessarily.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Long-range goal, which is conversion.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: It isn't enough that anti-gay bigots should become confused about
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: us or even indifferent to us. We are safest in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: the long run if we can actually make them like us.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Please don't confuse conversion with political subversion. By conversion, we
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: actually mean something more profoundly threatening to the American way
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: of life, without which no truly sweeping social change can occur. See,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: they had to send people's children home from school calling
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: their parents bigots because they've been desensitized and jammed and
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: converted in the classroom and are now homosexual advocates who
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: are calling their parents religion and morality into question.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And this is what happened.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Christian families all over the Western world Tell the same
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: story of children who come back from school all of
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a sudden with this propaganda about homosexuality.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Calling mom and dad bigots. Calling the church bigoted.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: It's happening everywhere. This is what was happening. Conversion.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: We mean conversion of the average American's emotions, mind, and
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: will through a planned psychological attack in the form of
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: propaganda fed to the nation.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Via the media and the schools. There it was in 1989. Okay? Coercion.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: This is the ultimate end of conversion. Coercion.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Expressing himself of Greek vigor and perhaps an extremist tone
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: even for gay activists, ACT UP leader Steve Warren intoned
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: an ominous sounding alarm for religious Jews and Christians in
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: his September 1987 warning to the homophobes. Despite the threatening tone,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: this was published by The Advocate, the nation's most prominent
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: gay magazine.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Listen to this.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Number one, henceforth, homosexuality will be spoken of in your
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: churches and synagogue as an honorable estate. Number two, you
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: can either let us marry people of the same sex,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: or better yet, abolish marriage altogether. Number three, you will
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: be expected to offer ceremonies that bless our sexual arrangements.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: You will also instruct your people in homosexual as well
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: as heterosexual behavior. And you will go out of your
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: way to make certain that homosexual youths are allowed to date,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: attend religious functions together, openly display affection, and enjoy each
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: other's sexuality without embarrassment or guilt. Number four, if any
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: of the older people in your midst object, you will
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: deal with them sternly, making certain they renounce their ugly
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: and ignorant homophobia.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Or suffer public humiliation.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Number five, you will also make certain that laws are
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: passed forbidding discrimination against homosexuals and heavy punishments are assessed.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Number six, finally, we will in all likelihood want to
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: expunge a number of passages from your scriptures and rewrite others,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: eliminating preferential treatment for marriage and use of words that
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: will allow for homosexual interpretations of passages describing biblical lovers
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: such as Ruth and Boaz or Solomon and the Queen
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: of Sheba. Warning, if all these things do not come
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: to pass quickly, we will subject Orthodox Jews and Christians
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: to the most sustained hatred and vilification in recent memory.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: We have captured the liberal establishment and the press. We
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: have already beaten you on a number of battlefields. You
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: have neither the faith nor the strength to fight us,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: so you might as well surrender now. That's the movement, folks,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: that's got us kowtowing. That's the movement that's got us
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: saying the problem is the churches haven't been nice enough.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: That's the movement. This is what they did to it.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: This was 1987, folks. This is 1987.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: By the way, there's a Harvard law professor who recently
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: wrote an article saying almost the same thing just last month.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: The 900-pound gorilla was never going to be happy with
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: marriage ceremonies. The church must be crushed. This is not
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: over by a long shot. If this is right based
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: on the premise that they argued.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: We must be stopped. We must be punished. This is
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: how they must deal with us. And yet, and yet....
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: We think if we're just nice enough. Secondly, black civil
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: rights leaders. Julian Bond, former head of the NAACP. African
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Americans were the only Americans who were enslaved for two centuries,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: but we were far from the only Americans suffering discrimination
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: then and now. Sexual disposition parallels race. In other words,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: gay is the new black. Coretta Scott King. the widow
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Banning same-sex marriage is
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: a form of gay bashing.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Because gay is the new black.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Michael Steele, former chair of the Republican National Committee. Now,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the Republicans are the conservatives in the U.S., right? Michael
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Steele was... a black politician who was the head of
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the Republican National Committee. He's the guy who's responsible for
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: helping get Republicans elected to office. He is the conservative voice, right?
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Listen to what Michael Steele said in GQ magazine. Oh, no,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever really subscribed to that view
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that you can turn it on and off like a
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: water tap. I think that there's a whole lot that
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: goes into the makeup of an individual that you just
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: can't simply say, oh, like tomorrow morning, I'm going to
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: stop being gay. It's like saying tomorrow morning, I'm going
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to stop being black.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Because gay is the new black. Doesn't matter which side
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: of the political aisle you're on. Judges and the courts.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Jurisprudence versus social engineering. I'm not a lawyer, nor do
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I play one on TV, although it's all I ever
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: wanted to be.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: And before I.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Started preaching and changed my major, my senior year in college,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I was pre-law in international business, wanted to practice international law.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: But you don't have to be a lawyer in order
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: to understand what's happening in our courts. You just need
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to be able to read, okay?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Listen to the California Supreme Court in their decision.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Our state now recognizes that an individual's capacity to establish
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: a loving, long-term, committed relationship with another person and responsibly
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to care for and raise children does not depend upon
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the individual's sexual orientation. And more generally, that an individual's
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: sexual orientation, like a person's race or gender, does not
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: legal rights.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: We therefore conclude that in view of the substance.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And significance of the fundamental constitutional right to form a
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: family relationship, wherever that one is, the California Constitution properly
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right to
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: all Californians, whether gay or heterosexual, and to same-sex couples,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: as well as to opposite-sex couples, by the way. Again,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the idea that sexual orientation parallels race, no evidence whatsoever
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: to support that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Okay? In fact, quite the contrary, we have evidence that
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: it's not the same.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Thing, but the California Supreme Court acted based on the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: assumption that it is the same thing.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Here's the problem with that. Here's our precedent. If a
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: lesbian is a woman.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: who is directed toward other women in her sexual orientation,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: then we need to let her marry a.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Woman, right?
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: If a homosexual man is pointed toward other men in
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: his sexual orientation, we need to.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Let that homosexual man marry.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: If a bisexual is simultaneously pointed toward a man and
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: a woman in his immutable sexual orientation, we need to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: let him marry Both. You don't have to be a
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: lawyer to figure that out. That's the can of worms
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: they opened.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Political leaders. President Barack Obama.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: While we have come a long way since the Stonewall
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: riots in 1969, we still.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Have a lot of work to do.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Too often the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: those seeking to divide us, like him. But at its core,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: the issue is about who we are as Americans. Rarely
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: do I agree with this man, but he's spot on
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: in that last statement, right? By the way, he refers
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: to the Stonewall riots. Why the Stonewall riots? Stonewall is
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: now seen as this very important moment in the homosexual movement.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: As in most mafia-run joints, Stonewall operators exploited the opportunity
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: to blackmail successful older patrons. A staff member would strike
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: up a conversation with a successful-looking man, learn his.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Name and profession.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: If the mark worked in a law firm or was
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a stockbroker, he was later blackmailed with the threat of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: being outed to his colleagues. The discovery of this operation
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: led to the famous Stonewall raid on June 28, 1969.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Sometime in early 1969, Interpol, the UN-affiliated international police organization,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: noticed an unusual number of negotiable bonds surfacing in foreign
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: currencies and requested that the New York Police Department investigate
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: whether they were counterfeit. Police detectives found that the mafia
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: had been acquiring large numbers of bonds by blackmailing gay
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: employees of New York banks.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: This was Stonewall. I could go on.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: But I'll stop there. Let me say this last thing
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: about Stonewall. Here's our president talking about a Stonewall legend.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Frank Kamini, now in his 80s, a courageous gay rights
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: pioneer and sexual libertarian of the most extreme kind, a
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: man who wrote in 2008, let us have more and
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: better enjoyment of more and better sexual perversions by whatever definition,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: by more and more consenting adults. And if bestiality with
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: consenting animals provides happiness to some people, let them pursue
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: their happiness and let us have more and better enjoyment,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: more and better heart for pornography by those to whom
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: such viewing provides happiness. A man who stated that the
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: God of the Bible is a sinful, homophobic bigot who
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: needs to repent of this man, President Obama said, and
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: so we are proud of you, Frank. And we are
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: grateful to you for your leadership. The Obama LGBT agenda.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I'll believe that.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: That was in education. This is very important in education.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Arne Duncan, Secretary of Education. Obama comes to the White House,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: he comes from Chicago. It's traditional that you bring secretaries
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: to certain departments from your home state. So Arne Duncan
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: was the Secretary of Education in Illinois.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: And he did a.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Great job, because while he was Secretary of Education, only
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: 83% of the students could not read at grade level.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: And only 87% couldn't do math at grade level. And
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: only 77% couldn't write at grade level, and only 84%
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: couldn't do science at grade level. So he was awesome.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And then he was brought to Washington, D.C. to be
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Secretary of Education for the United States of America. Obviously
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: because he was so awesome, right? Even more astonishing, the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Secretary-Elect managed to achieve these arresting results by spending a modest.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: $ 10, 555 per pupil per year.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: By the way, that would be $ 42, 220 for a family
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: with four children. Imagine having that much for your home
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: school budget. And results that terrible. They take your kids.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Right? Why is this important?
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: He started the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Bill Ayers and Barack
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Obama served together on that board. Bill Ayers, Weather Underground.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Bomb police stations. At least one police officer killed by
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: he and his wife, Bernadine Dorn. These 60s radicals. Angelou's
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Living Room, Barack Obama's political career started. These guys connected
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to the Annenberg Challenge. Endorsed the establishment of the Chicago
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Social Justice High.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: School's Pride Campus. This was the first openly gay high
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: school campus anywhere. That's Arne Duncan.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Arne Duncan comes, and he's now the Secretary of Education. Now,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Kevin Jennings, you need to know who Kevin Jennings is.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: He's the founder of Glistener. the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Educational Network. Their goal is to have a gay-straight alliance
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: in every school.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: They're pretty close.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Their strategy was to use the Safe Schools Anti-Bullying Curriculum.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: The Safe Schools Anti-Bullying Curriculum is a homosexual propaganda campaign.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Arne Duncan brought Kevin Jennings to Washington as the Safe
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Schools Czar, so he could get the.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Safe Schools campaign.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Anti-bullying campaign in every American school. It's homosexual propaganda. Do
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: y'all understand what's happening here? Business leaders. Steve Jobs, the
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: former CEO of Apple. Man, you should get you something else.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: You can't find a computer made by a company that
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: is not knee-deep in the homosexual agenda. or an operating system,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: or anything else. Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google. I won't
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: even read all this stuff that they say. I want
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: to get to this. I want to get to the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: religious leaders.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Brian McLaren. We know this name, right?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Listen to Brian McLaren in Christianity Today. Perhaps we need
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: a five-year moratorium on making pronouncements. In the meantime, we'll
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: practice prayerful Christian dialogue, listening respectfully, disagreeing agreeably, When decisions
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: need to be made, they'll be admittedly provisional. We'll keep
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: our ears attuned to scholars and biblical studies, theology, ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: and related fields. Then in five years, if we have clarity,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: we will speak. If not, we'll set another five years
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: for ongoing reflection.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: After all, many.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Important issues in church history took centuries to figure out.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: By the way, that's not true. Maybe this moratorium would
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: help us resist the wind of doctrines blowing rigorously from
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: the left and the right, so we can patiently wait
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: for the wind of the Spirit to set our course.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Because the Bible is obviously not clear on this issue.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Gene Robinson.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Is that name familiar to you? The first openly gay
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Episcopal bishop. That's the Church of England on our side
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: of the waters. People know that he was openly homosexual.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: What they don't know is that he was an admitted
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: alcoholic and that he was a married man who abandoned
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: his wife and children for his gay lover. That's the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: guy who became the first openly gay bishop in the
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Episcopal Church. He's disqualified not only because of his homosexuality,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: but his drunkenness and his abandonment of his family. But again,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: he was celebrated. The pro-homosexual strategy. Here's where the rubber
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: meets the road, all right? And in these last minutes,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: let's just deal with this. This strategy, ad hominem attacks, intimidation,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: question-baiting logic, and genetic fallacies. Argument ad hominem. That's an
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: argument against the man, okay? Against the person. And you're
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a debate, and you have this
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: stronger argument, and the person goes, so you're ugly.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: That's argument ad hominem. You're a terrible person. That means
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you're winning the debate, by the way. U.S. Representative Barney Frank,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: he said, I wouldn't want the homosexual marriage issue to
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: go to the United States Supreme Court now because that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: homophobe Antonin Scalia, who died last year, it's the worst
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: thing he did as a Supreme Court justice, has too
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: many votes on this current court. Now, that's a member
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: of Congress talking about a sitting judge on the Supreme Court.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Notice he is a homophobe. You are a homophobe. Your
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: position is not homophobic. Your belief is not homophobic. You are.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: It's an attack of you as a person. It's an
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: attack of your character. You are a homophobe. You are
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: not worthy of participation in this society. Okay? Begging the question.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Now the phrase begging the question, we use this a
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: lot and we just almost always use it wrongly.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: We go, well, that begs the question. And what we
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: mean is that raises the question. Begging the question refers
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to the question in a formal debate. That is, the
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: issue being debated, one side may ask the other side
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: to concede certain points in order to speed up the proceedings.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: To beg the question is to ask that the very
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: point of being argued be conceded. We're arguing as to
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: whether or not you kick your dog, right? And so
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I go, now, when you kick your dog, do you
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: do it with your right or your left foot? Well, actually,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: that's what we're debating. If you say when you kick
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: your dog, you're begging the question, which means you are
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: assuming the fact that we're supposed to be debating, okay?
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: That's what it means to beg the question. It doesn't
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: mean to raise the question. Begging the question is a
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: logical flaw in an argument.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Okay? So, how do they beg the question?
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: Number one, they say homosexuality is as immutable as ethnicity. Folks,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: that's begging the question. They're stating as fact something that
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: we're debating that hasn't been proved. That's question begging logic.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: And again, most Christians believe this to be true.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: And factual, though it is not. How do we know
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: it's not? Again, I told you, 1 Corinthians 6, verses
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: 9 to 11. Do you not know that the unrighteous
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor dovers, nor men
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: some of you.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the Spirit of our God. That's 2,000 year old evidence
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: that people stopped practicing homosexuality. We don't even need 2,000-year-old evidence.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: It happens today. It happens today. Second, homosexuals are denied
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: a fundamental right when they are not allowed to marry.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: That's questions begging logic.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: It's not true, actually.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Even without the laws being changed, homosexuals have always been
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: allowed to marry.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: How could they be prevented from marrying if there's no test? Right?
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Listen to this.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: This was in an article a few years ago.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: I'm married with two children.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Three years ago, I found out my husband was having
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: an affair with another man. He still lives at home
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: and continues the relationship with that man. I don't have
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: it in me to throw him out and get on
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: with my life. I'm afraid to bring up two children alone.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: That means he's homosexual.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: And he's married.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Right? Nobody took a blood test and said, actually, sir,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you can't marry her because we just discovered you're homosexual
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and homosexuals are allowed to marry.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Right? Right?
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: A married man, Thomas Beattie, who used to be a woman,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: says that he is pregnant and will give birth to
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: a baby girl in July.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Take it right out of the headlines. Yeah, try to
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: wrap your head around that one, all right?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. There are people who have attended
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: to homosexuals and they were married. Yeah, but you say,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: but they have to marry someone of the opposite sex. Yes,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: which means the law is applied to them exactly as
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: it's applied to me, and that is justice. Iowa Supreme
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Court recognized this and listen to what they did. It
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: is true the marriage statute does not expressly prohibit gay
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: and lesbian persons from marrying.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: By the way, drop the mic right there. It should
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: be over. That means the law is not being violated and.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Nobody's rights are being violated because the law is being
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: applied equally to all persons.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: They just admitted it. We're done, right? No, we're not.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: It does, however, require that if they marry, it must
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: be to someone of the opposite sex.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: By the way, same for me. So still, no problem.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Viewed in the complete context of marriage, including intimacy, civil
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: marriage with a person of the opposite sex is as
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: unappealing to a gay or lesbian.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Person as civil marriage with a person of the same
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: sex is to a heterosexual. By the way, did they
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: prove that? No.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: They beg the question. How could you prove that? And
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: by the way, this is law. Who cares how appealing
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: something is? Thus, the right of a gay or lesbian
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: person under the marriage statute to enter into civil marriage
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: only with a person of the opposite sex is no
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: right at all.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Because if you don't want to practice the right, it's
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: not a right. Under such a law, Gay or.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Lesbian individuals cannot simultaneously fulfill.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Their deeply felt need for a.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Committed personal relationship as influenced by their sexual orientation, again,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: begging the question, and gain civil status and intended benefits
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: guaranteed by the statute. Instead, a gay or lesbian person
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: can only gain the same rights under the statute as
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: a heterosexual person by negating the very trait that defines
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: gay and lesbian people as a class, their sexual orientation. Again,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: they beg the question. Here's the logic. Homosexuals have the
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: right to marry. They do not desire to exercise the
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: right as it currently exists. Therefore, they do not have
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the right and the law must be changed. Can we
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: agree that that's their syllogism? Right? I'm not putting words
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: in anybody's mouth, right? That's what the Supreme Court of
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Iowa just said. That's their syllogism. So, let's take the
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: same logic, the same syllogism. Pacifists have the right to
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: join the military. They do not desire to exercise the
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: right as it currently exists. Therefore, they do not have
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: the right and the law must be changed. We must
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: create a military that doesn't fight so that pacifists can
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: enjoy the right like other people can. Irrefutable logic. This
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: is ironclad, folks. And it demonstrates the folly of what,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: for example, your country just did not long ago. It's
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous. But apparently there's nobody who can stand up
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: in a courtroom and do this.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Three.
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: It is wrong to pass legislation that takes fundamental rights
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: away from or discriminates against a group of people.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Happens all the time. Happens all the time. Right?
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Where I'm from, convicts can lose the right to vote.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: There's a group of people who lose fundamental rights. Right?
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Happens all the time, folks. So they're begging the question
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: and it's not true. But here's the other issue.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: The idea is that when two people love each other,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: they should be allowed to get married. Right?
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: So they're starting with that Beatles philosophy.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: All you need is love.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I come back with a little Tina Turner theology. What's
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: love got to do with it?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: All right? By the way, let's take that statement.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: First, when?
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: We discriminate against 13-year-olds. They can't get married. Right? Two.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Because they say when two people love each other. This
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: is discriminatory because we discriminate against polyamory and polygamy.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Right? If the numerosity requirement is there, then even when
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: two people marry. Right? is a huge problem. Well, that's
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: an exaggeration. No, it's not.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: I won't go into all of this, but you know
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: polygamy and polyamory are coming, right? Because we've set a precedent,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: and they're about to kick the door wide open. People,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: that discriminates against bestiality and zoorastic. What if I don't
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: want to marry a person? So even this statement, when
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: two people love each other, that's discriminating.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Against people who want to marry a non-person. Well, that's
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: an exaggeration, right?
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: No.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: As an 18-year-old, he had stoned and clubbed to death
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: two dogs he found engaging in mating.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: He then hung their carcasses from a tree. That's when
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: his personal suffering began. After that, my legs and hands
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: got paralyzed and I lost hearing in my ear, Kumar
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: told the Hindustan Times newspaper. Kumar, now 33, living in
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: the southern India district of Sivaganga, could no longer take
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: the physical pain of the dog curse, so he sought
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: the advice of an astrologer.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Her advice? Her cure for his maladies? Marry a dog.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Which is just what Kumar did on Sunday, November 11, 2007. Kumar,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: sitting beside his bride, recited his marriage vows, declaring, I
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: will take care of it until its death. Then the
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: couple was declared married. You still think it's an exaggeration?
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: It happened.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Does he now get to come to Ireland with his
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: dog and get all the rights with it? Hmm? Well,
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: that's discriminatory because it's when two people love each other.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: And we said marriage shouldn't be discriminatory, right? We discriminate
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: against 13-year-olds and 12-year-olds. We discriminate against polygamy and polyamory.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And we discriminate against bestiality. When two people love each other,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that's discrimination against pragmatic marriages.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Not everybody marries for love, right?
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: When we say when two people love each other, they
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: ought to be able to get married.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: When they love each other.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: This discriminates against people with multiple love interests who choose
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: one over the other. This anti-discriminatory statement is discriminatory at
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: every word. The idea is ridiculous that we shouldn't discriminate
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: in marriage.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: By the way, I can't get married. Why?
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Because I'm already married. Well, that's discrimination against me. Are
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: you smelling what I'm stepping in? We've always discriminated against marriage.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: We always will discriminate in marriage. We have to because
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: we're civilized people. Discrimination and other laws. This is Antonin Scalia. Boy,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I miss this man. The Texas sodomy law undoubtedly imposes
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: constraints on liberty.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: So do laws prohibiting prostitution.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Recreational use of heroin, and for that matter, working more
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: than 60 hours a week in a bakery. Laws discriminate
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: by their very nature. The genetic fallacy. Here's the genetic fallacy.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: A genetic fallacy is arguing that something is untrue because
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: of where.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: It comes from. Right? It's untrue because of where it
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: comes from. You are a Christian. and you're using your
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: religion to impose your morality on me. Sound familiar? You're
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: a Christian.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: You're trying to use your religion to impose your morality
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: on me. Therefore, what you're doing is wrong.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Since your position arises from your religion, your argument is
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: biased and illegitimate. I, on the other hand, am basing
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: my argument on the illegitimate application of the biblical idea
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: that all people are equal before God. However, since I
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: do not believe in the source of my argument, the Bible,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: I have the moral high ground and you have to
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: shut up.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Here's what's interesting. You're trying to impose your morality on me.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: What are you trying to do?
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell you that it's immoral to deny
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: marriage to me if I love this person because discrimination
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: is immoral. Based on what worldview? Because I'm going to
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: say that's based on my worldview that you just hijacked.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: But because you hijacked my worldview and don't claim it
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: as your own, you get to impose the morality that
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: you choose.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: And I don't get to impose the morality that I choose.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: You get to be declared moral, and I get to
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: be declared a bigot.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Well, as we'd say in Texas, that dog won't hunt.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: And yet, it works.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: It works.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: It's got us all tied up in knots.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Not knowing if we're coming or going, and having absolutely
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: no idea. All right.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to stop right.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: There, okay? There's a whole other section here on our
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: responses and whatnot. Let me just give you a couple
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: of these things, okay? There's opposition from within. The idea
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that Jesus never addressed homosexuality. Paul didn't understand loving same-sex relationships.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Love is the overarching ethic of the New Testament. And
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: why do you eat shellfish? These are the four lines
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: of argumentation that we deal with.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: I'm at my hour.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I can run through these quickly and try to help
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: you address these. Or....
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: You can tap out. Okay? Alright. So we do this.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: The first one, Jesus never addressed homosexuality. Raise your hand
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: if you've heard this one before. Jesus never addressed homosexuality.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: First of all, Jesus did address homosexuality. In Matthew 5
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: and in Matthew 19, Jesus addressed homosexuality.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Because Jesus addressed marriage. Marriage.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: And he addressed marriage as a creation ordinance because God
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: made them male and female. So Jesus did address it. Second,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Jesus is a member of the Godhead. This is hugely important.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: This is hugely important. Which means that Jesus was there
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: in salvation. and in spite of Leviticus. The Bible is
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: a unit and you can't pit.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Jesus against Paul. Okay?
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: So, again, this is the thinking progression that we use
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: in order to address that argument. It's ridiculous on its face,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: all right? Next, what Genesis teaches about marriage. We heard
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: that earlier, okay? Jesus echoed that teaching from Genesis, the
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: purposes of marriage, so on and so forth. I'm sorry,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going through these things quickly, but you've heard these things,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: all right? What's wrong with homosexuality? It's a violation of
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: the created order, it denounces procreation, and it blasphemes the illustration.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: And besides that, it denies the need for sanctification. The
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: other thing is, Paul didn't understand homosexuality. Matthew finds, does
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: this mean anything to you? This is the new 900
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: pound gorilla in the church. God and the gay Christian
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: is his book. He's writing this book as one who
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: believes the Bible, and who is reformed and conservative, and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: here's the essence of his argument.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Paul is arguing against sodomy.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: He's arguing against the Greco-Roman practice of heterosexual men using
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: other men for sex. He's not arguing against people who
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: have a homosexual orientation, because Paul wouldn't have understood homosexual orientation.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Okay? This is the Matthew Vines argument, and young people
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: love it. Here's why.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: They go to school every day, and they're told, your
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: mama's a bigot, your daddy's a bigot, your church is
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: a bigot, your Bible is a bigot, your God is
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: a bigot, and they get pounded every day.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, the Matthew.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: Vines argument comes around, and they can hold on to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: the Bible and Christianity and stop the bleeding at school
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: by embracing homosexuality simultaneously. Romans 1 obliterates this, and Vines
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: tries to deal with this in his book, but sadly so.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: We know Romans 1. Let's take a time. Let's move.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: What's love got to do with it, right?
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: It's the other argument that love, love is the overarching
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: ethic of the Bible, and these people are loving each other.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Two lines of attack. First, God is love. And second,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: marriage is love.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: These are the two lines of attack. But is this love?
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: There's the question. Matthew 22, 34, 40. The Pharisees come
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: and they ask him, when he saw the Pharisees, or
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: the Sadducees, when the Pharisees heard that he had saw
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: the Sadducees, they gathered together and one of them, a lawyer,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: Asked him a question to test him. Teacher, what is
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: the greatest commandment of the law? And he said to them,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: with all your soul, and with all your mind. This
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: is the great and first commandment. And the second is
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: This is a summary of both tables of the law. Okay?
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Love is not pitted against the law. Love holds the law.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Romans 13, 8 to 10. Listen to this. Owe no
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: one anything except to love each other. For the one
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandment,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: you shall not commit adultery. You shall not murder. You
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: shall not steal. You shall not covet. What's that? Folks,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: that's the second table of the law. And any other commandment.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: are summed up in this word. You should love your
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: neighbor as yourself. So Paul just, for those of you
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: who are saying, well, you say that that's a summary
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: of the second table.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Of the law, but how do we know that? Well,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: because Paul just said that. Okay?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore, it fulfills
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: the law.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Notice he uses the word commandment there twice.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: So he's talking about the Ten Commandments, and specifically the
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: second table of the law. So the idea that you
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: would pit love against the law is completely ridiculous and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: it's obliterated by the New Testament.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: True love hates sin. True love hates sin.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: 1 Corinthians 13, 4-6. Love is patient and kind. Love
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: does not boast. It is not arrogant or rude. It
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: does not insist on its own way. It is not
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: irritable or resentful. It does not rejoice in wrongdoing but
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: rejoices in the truth.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: We're going to have a wedding today. Sorry, I'm not going. Really?
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: You're such a hypocrite. I thought you loved me, right?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: I'm your brother. I'm your sister. I'm your friend. And
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: now you're not going to come? I thought you loved me.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I do love you. But love does not rejoice in wrongdoing,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: and you're about to do wrongdoing. What's more, all love
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: is vertical first. And then horizontally, I cannot delegitimize my
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: vertical love for the God who is love by embracing
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: what that God says is sin. And I cannot prove
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: my love for you by denying my love for God
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: because that would be idolatry. Oh, you who love the Lord,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: hate evil. He preserves the lives of the saints. He
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: delivers them from.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: The hand of the wicked.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil. Hold fast
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Outdo one another in showing honor. Though they know God,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: they not only do them, but they give approval to
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: those who practice them. This is a warning to us.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: True love judges according to God's standard. You know, everybody
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: knows Matthew 7-1. It's the new John 3-16. The old
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: John 3-16 is John 3-16. Right? Everybody knew that. The
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: new John 3-16 and Matthew 7-1. People don't know Matthew 7-1.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: They don't know the verse. They know what's there.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Right? Judge not lest you be judged. And you keep
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: on reading and what do you find?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: You find this illustration of the speck that's in your
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: brother's eye and the log.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: That's in your eye. How does it end?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: You remove the mark from your own eye and then
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: leave your brother alone because the metaphor here is judging. No,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: you remove the mark from your own eye so that
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: you can see clearly to take the speck out of
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: your brother's eye, which is a metaphor for what? Judging
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: your brother. Matthew 7 is about judging properly. It's not
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: about not judging. True love calls the wicked to repent.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Ezekiel 3.18 If I say to the wicked, you shall
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: surely die, and you give him no warning, nor speak
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: to save his life, that wicked person shall die in
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: his iniquity, but his blood I will require in your hands.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: It is not loving to look at the wicked and
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: refuse to call their wickedness wicked. Ephesians 5.10 We expose
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the evil deeds of darkness. Therefore, true love must never
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: treat homosexuality with anything less than utter contempt and loathing.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't sound right. That sounds downright nasty. Notice
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't say homosexuals. I said homosexuality.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Why? Why should we have contempt and loathing for homosexuality?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: They have the highest rates of STDs in the world.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: They have the highest rates of promiscuity in the world
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: the highest rates of domestic violence in the world.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Now, there's this whole domestic violence kick, and the feminists
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: are on the domestic violence bandwagon because it allows them
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: to advance the narrative that the most dangerous thing in
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: the world to a woman is a man, right? Lesbian
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: relationships are far more violent than heterosexual ones. Their rates
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: of domestic violence are off the charts. Highest rates of
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: alcoholism and drug abuse. Highest rates of depression. Highest rates
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: of suicide. Males take 20 to 30 years off their
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: life expectancy. Folks, this is not a lifestyle, it's a
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: death style. Homosexuality is to be looked upon with utter
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: contempt and loathing because it destroys and dehumanizes people.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: We cannot celebrate this. Not if you know what it is. Okay?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: The New Testament.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise endows
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: them with sexual immorality. and pursued unnatural desires, serve as
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: an example by undergoing punishment of eternal fire. Why is
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: this verse important? Because there are people who argue, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Sodom and Gomorrah, they got punished because of a lack
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: of hospitality. Yeah.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Jude says otherwise. Jude says otherwise. Okay?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: So, why do you eat shellfish?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: Why do you eat shellfish? In other words, why do
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: you pick and choose?
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: You say it's an abomination, and I like to lead
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: people to Leviticus to talk about this issue, because I
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: want them to bring up this argument. There was an
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: episode of the West Wing, where President Bartlett is talking
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: to a woman who's supposed to be like, what's the lady,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: the lady psychiatrist, Dr.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Laura Schlesinger.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: And they're in the West Wing during this party, and he.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: Says, I like your show.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: I like how you call homosexuality an abomination. Jacob says,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: President. The Bible does. Ah, yes, it does. Leviticus. Jacob, 1822. Barton,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple questions.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: While I had you here, I want to sell my
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21-7. She's
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: when it was her turn. What would be a good
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: price for her? While you're thinking about that, can I
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: ask you another? My chief of staff, Leo McGarity, insists
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: on working on the Sabbath.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Exodus 35.2 clearly says he should be put to death.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or is
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Leviticus 11, 7.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point?
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Does the whole town really have to be together to
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side?
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: for wearing garments made of two different threads? Think about
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: those questions, would you? This episode was so popular because
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: it put Christians in their place. And it gave what
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: has become the most popular line of argumentation for personal
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: disputes with homosexuals and Christians.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: The why do you get to pick and choose line
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: of argumentation.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: For the sake of time, and I write about this
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: in my lady's book, Expository Apologetics. For the sake of time,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: let me give you the answer. Here's how you respond
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: to that. And I'm really going to shut it down here.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. Alright.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: We'll end with this. So, I bring up with this
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: 1822 and the abomination because I want to. I want,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: I really want them to ask me this question. It's
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: kind of like a boxing technique. There's a saying in boxing.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Don't hook with a hooker.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: And it means if there's someone who's strongest punch is
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: their left hook.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: And your left hook is not your strongest punch.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: If you rely on throwing your left hook, they're going
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: to throw theirs faster and harder than you do.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: They will knock you out before your punch ever reaches them.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: And so, don't hook with a hooker, right? So, if
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: you're a person whose left hook.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: Is really strong, you may come in the ring and
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: put your right hand down a little low. To invite
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: this person to throw their left hook. Because you know,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: by the time their shoulder flinches, yours will land.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: That's what we're doing here. I want them to bring
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: up the why do you pick and choose argument. I
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: really do. So I put my.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Right hand way down here. Like, please punch me right there. Okay?
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: Oh, really? Well, you eat shellfish and you do this
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: and you do that. Why do you pick and choose?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: That's interesting that you should ask. Number one, I pick
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and choose. Well, first of all, before we get there,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: let me be clear. You also pick and choose.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: Well, what do you mean?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Well, Leviticus 19 talks about lying to your neighbor and
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: withholding good from your neighbor, right?
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: It talks about lying in court. You don't want any
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: of that, right? Well, no.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you pick and choose as well. Yeah, well,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: I don't pick and choose because it's in Leviticus. Actually,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: you do, and you were raised in a culture that
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: put that in you. The fact that you don't know
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: you pick and choose is irrelevant.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: You pick and choose.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: So first of all, get down off your moral high horse.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Because you pick and choose just like I do. The
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: difference is I know why I pick and choose and
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: that I pick and choose. You not only don't know
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: why you pick and choose until I just informed you,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: you didn't know that you pick and choose. Secondly, I
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: pick and choose because not all laws in the Old
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: Testament are the same. There are laws in the Old
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Testament that are moral laws. There are laws that are
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: civil laws. And there are laws that are judicial laws.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Now the moral laws are forever binding on all people,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: so I pick and choose those laws. However, for example,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I do not pick and choose the ceremonial laws because
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Christ died for sin once for all, but just for
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: the unjust.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: And noted that he might bring us back to God.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Those ceremonial laws pointed forward to the finished work of
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ on the cross. So as a Christian, I
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: wouldn't dare go back to those old laws that pointed
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: forward to what my Savior would do in order to
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: save me from my sin.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: And the New Testament makes it very clear that I shouldn't.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: Going back to those laws would be getting married and
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: then continuing to kiss your wife through a veil. So,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: number one, I pick and choose because of different types
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: of laws. Number two, I pick and choose because I'm
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: a Christian. And if I didn't pick and choose, it
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: would be blasphemous for me to go back to ceremonial laws. Thirdly,
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: I pick and choose because it is absolutely incumbent upon
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: me to have a standard of righteousness outside of myself.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: Because I know that by nature I'm a hypocrite and
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: I'm arrogant. I need a standard beyond me. I don't
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: trust myself to be the arbiter of all truth. So
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: there's the difference between the two of us. By the way,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: please note what just happened. I invited them to throw
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: their left hook. Not so that I could knock them out.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: but because I knew that they were going to choose
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: to have a conversation about this issue, number one, which
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: meant that they would stay there and listen to me
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: while I explain myself. Number three, I'm able to knock
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: them down off their moral high horse and show that
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: they're not morally superior. And number four, I just shared
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: the gospel.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: And that's what matters. Not winning a debate about homosexuality.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Getting to the gospel is what matters. Okay? All right.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Folks, I've taken too much time. There's a whole lot
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: more of this. Some of this you can find online.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Look for Semper Reformanda 2014 from our church, Grace Family
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Baptist Church in Houston.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: We did this before we moved. So there's three sessions
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: of this, two and a half hours, three hours. or so,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: actually probably three and a half hours of this, that
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: you can go and get.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: My hope, I know this is a lot, okay? But
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: my hope is that you at least now understand the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: nature of what.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: We're dealing with, okay?
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: This was not just innocent, loving homosexuals who just found
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: themselves you know, yearning to be married to one another,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: nothing can be further from the truth.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Especially with homosexual men. They don't want marriage. That's not
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: what this is about. Okay?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: That's not what this was ever about. This is about
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: destroying marriage itself. Okay? And so, anyway, I hope you
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: see that. I hope you see that this was strategic
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: in its nature. I hope you see that it's illogical.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: Because here's what worries me. What worries me is that
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: for most Christians, this is their posture. First of all,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you, I've been talking about this for a decade.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: When I started talking about this, people were like, you know,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: why are you talking about this? I believed a decade
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: ago that this was the most important moral issue of
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: our day. I still believe it today. And so people
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: were like, why are you talking about this? Well, then
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: the law comes down in the U.S., and everybody's like,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: where were the pastors? How come the pastors weren't talking
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: about this?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: What?
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: I've been talking about this for a decade, and you
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: said I was obsessing. Now you're saying, where were the pastors?
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: You weren't listening to those of us who were talking
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: about this. You didn't get it.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: And now, here's what I'm seeing. I'm still talking about this,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: and people are like, hey, man, that ship is sailable.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Let's move on. So we went from apathy to fear
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: to apathy again. And here's what you need to know.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: The 900-pound world is not finished. They're not done with us.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: Okay? They're not done with us. And so we need
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: to open our eyes and be ready for what's coming.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: Because our very ability to proclaim the gospel.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Is going to be challenged.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: Here's the other thing. These people are trapped in a
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: death style.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: And the enemy has told them that this is good
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: and this is right. They're standing in front of the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: wrath of God sticking their tongue out. The loving thing
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: to do is not to wipe our hands of this.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: The loving thing to do is to proclaim the gospel
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: to them and to warn them of the judgment that
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: is to come.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Here's another thing.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: God judges nations, not just individuals. He judges nations. And
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: his judgment has already come. His judgment has already come.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: We're in the midst of it in the West right now.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: And it's not done yet. Okay? So for those reasons,
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: this is of the utmost importance. Okay? And beyond that,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: here's what I'm saying. And this is why I wanted
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: to end with that.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: What I'm seeing is that right now, there is an
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: opportunity to engage people like never before. People have been
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: emboldened by this. They want to talk about this because
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: they feel like they have a winning strategy.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: They feel like if they just bring up the shellfish thing,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: you know, they can just beat you down, right? This
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: is an opportunity for us to proclaim the gospel.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: And it's a unique opportunity where people will want to
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: talk to you about this because they think it's a
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: winning strategy for them, okay?
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: So for all those reasons, I think this is of
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: the utmost importance. It's also important.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: Because our children are being desensitized, jammed, and converted. There's
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: some of you in this room, and you have older
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: teenage children, and they're gone on this issue. Some of
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: you have children in their 20s and 30s, and they're
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: absolutely gone on this issue.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: They are so.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Pro-gay, you can't even stand it, because they've been brainwashed
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: on this issue. Well, we need to understand how this happened.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: We need to understand how to engage on this, all right?
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: So I apologize for just sort of flooding you with
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: all of this so quickly and for going over the time.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: But I hope you understand why. And I hope you
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: find this useful.