Latest / Ridiculous History / CLASSIC: The Weird World of Meat Jell-O (A Gelatin Origin Story)

Transcript

CLASSIC: The Weird World of Meat Jell-O (A Gelatin Origin Story) · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You guys know, I think cookbooks and menus are a
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: form of literature. Read a lot of these ridiculous historians
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Max Noll and I they called me Ben. We had
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: a we had a moment in January of twenty eighteen
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: where we got super into.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Gelatin Into is maybe a strong way of putting it.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I think jello on its own is a delightful treat.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: It's locale, it's squishy, and it goes down easy if
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: you have a sore throat. Great for hospital days. You know,
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of line personally. I don't know
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: what you guys's favorite jello flavors are.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we used to be friends.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry, I just I'm a little basically blue,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: well blue, what is blue?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Jealous flavor? Blue? Yeah, we have a blue drink. We
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: have an episode on artificial flavoring coming up in the future,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: in the future of ridiculous history. And gelatine itself is
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: an amazing technology. I mean, it's it's ancient, but it's
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: also I don't know, it's still so fascinating. It's so fun.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a person who plays with my food. I love
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that stuff.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Remember Jello jigglers guy, Yeah, itello that you'd cut out
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: with cookie cutters, and oh man, there was a golden
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: time when Bill Cosby before we knew too much about that.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, he was the guy and he was the jigglers.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: All that stuff didn't age very well now that we know. Uh.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: But here's the thing. Jello in that form and it's
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: purest form, the little bit of food coloring and some
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: sweetener and you know whatever artificial flavoring a delight. Well,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: you start mixing in mayonnaise and olives and pickles and
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: celery and shoot of slivers of meat, oh geez, or
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the earlier versions of it with things called aspects, which
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: would be a gelatine kind of with meat chunks, you know,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: sort of suspended there. It really it becomes pretty cursed.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: There's an actually what I was looking for and talk
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: was this guy has a channel called I Spy Antiques.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: He does a video where he tries to make a
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: jello salad that he found in his grandmother's recipe book
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: and he makes it in like a lamb cake mold
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: and it ends up being this just cursed green, weird lumpy.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: It's got like green peppers in it. He takes a
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: bite and it's just like he he curses God.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Essentially, I never understood it, and that's what that's what
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: comes to the forefront in today's classic episode. If you
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: like us, are alive in twenty twenty four and you're
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: wondering why why did gelatine become such a thing. Nowadays
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: it's relegated to the world the desserts. But once upon
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: a time, folks, as we will learn together today, gelatine
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: was considered like a savory medium, a savory path for
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: a main dish. And it's just it's it's a centerpiece.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Dare we say, you know, we say, yeah, yeah, it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a It's a cavalcade of culinary catastrophe. Anyway, here it
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: is ridiculous History. Is a production of iHeartRadio, America's most
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: famous dessert. There's always room for Jel. Hello, my name
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: is Ben. I know.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gonna take me a minute to wrap my
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: head around. It's not worth it, No, it is worth it.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: You you you kind of just broke my brain. But
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm Noel and I think this is ridiculous history.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: And today we're talking about Gello, but not just any
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: gel I mean, we're gonna cover, We're gonna run the
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: game of all gelatinous products, but specifically today we're talking
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: about meat jello.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: It's a real thing, and it's something that you and
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I and our super producer Casey Pegrin have talked about
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: off air in the past, before we even started doing
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: this show, which is amazing when you think about it,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: You and I and Casey and probably some of you
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: friends and neighbors have a preoccupation, a morbid fascination with gelatine.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. I mean, I have a very distinct
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: memory from my childhood, and it was my mother really
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: prided herself on doing these very elegant table settings, and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: she carried on this tradition from her mother, who always
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: used to make a little side dish with the alarmingly
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: odd name of gentleman's salad. What is this gentleman's salad?
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: You might ask?
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: What is this gentleman's salad?
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I thought you might ask. I'll tell you what it is.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Ben is a thing that was very in all the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: rage of the highest of fashion in the fifties and sixties,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: mid century and beyond, fell out of fashion a closer
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: to the late seventies the early eighties. But we'll get
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: to that. But what gentleman salad is is a molded
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: gelatinous I don't know if it's a dessert. It's not
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: really served in the place of a dessert. It's sort
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: of a pre meal thing like you'd eat a salad.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: But it's not a leafy green No, it's a weird
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: little gelatinous mound of lime green stuff that's kind of
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: full of nuts, chopped nuts and marshmallows, I want to say,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and topped with a dollop of crim fresh or horseradish, oh,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: if you want to get spicy right exactly. And it's
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: one of these things that as a kid, my mom
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: insisted that I take a bite, even though I just
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: it was just one of those things I just didn't trust.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: My little kid brain kind of recoiled at it. It
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: didn't taste awful, the horseradish, but that was apparently I
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: was missing out on the full impact of the dish.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: But this was a thing, and not just meat jella,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: but jello in general. Gelatin salads was a very easy
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: way for home cooks to show kind of like opulence
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: and class and elegance.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And today, we often think of a salad as something
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: with leafy greens, right, with fresh herbs, fresh vegetables, a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: little bit of cheese, and maybe some protein in the
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: form of nuts or tun or whatever. But a salad
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: essentially is only a mixture of different ingredients. So when
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: we're saying gelatine salad, we are accurately describing this strange
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: phenomenon of throwing everything and the kitchen sink into gelatine.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: And gelatin is a very strange thing when you think
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: about it. We know that it's ancient, that traces of
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: gelatin were found in ancient Egypt, and we generally in
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the West trace the use of gelatin as a food
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: stuff to medieval England.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: That's right. I actually found a gelatin recipe from seventeen
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: forty seven from a London cookbook, from an author by
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: the name of Hannah Glass. And we'll go into a
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: little bit more of the modern ways of making gelatin,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: but this is the old school way. I'm going to
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: read this verbatim because it is delightful. So first, take
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: out the great bones of four calves feet and put
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the feet into a pot with ten quarts of water,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: three ounces of horse shorn, three ounces of ling glass,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: a nutmeg quartered, four blades of mace. Then boil this
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: till it comes to two quarts and strain it through
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a flannel bag. Let it stand twenty four hours. Then
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: scrape all the fat from the top very clean. Then
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: slice it and put to it the whites of six
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: eggs beaten to froth. Boil it a little and strain
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: it again through a flannel bag. Then run the jelly
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: into little high glasses. You may add orange flower water
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: or wine, and sugar and lemon if you please. But
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: this is all fancy.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: As you can see. We are fans of collecting recipes
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: from olden days, and we have found that the measurements
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: get kind of iffy and ad hockey. But this is
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: this is a real recipe. And if you have these calves,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: hoofs or some orange water. Was it orange water or sugar?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: It was orange flower water, orange flower water. If you
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: have this, please feel free to make it. Please send
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: us pictures. I know all three of us would love
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: to see it. Nowadays we use the term jello synonymously
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: with gelatin, but Jello is a name brand with a
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: history of its own. The mix up here the conflation
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: is similar to the way that people say google as
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a verb when they're referring to any Internet So.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Like Kleenex for any kind of tissue.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Or like xerox for copiers or gelatin itself brand names
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: aside is a translucent, colorless and flavorless thing on its own,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and you make it using collagen from various animal parts,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: as we saw in our recipe with calves hooves. It's
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: not just used in food. It's commonly used as a
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: gelling agent in food, but it's used in a bunch
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: of non food applications as well, photography, vitamin capsules.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Sure, and the way it's made today is obviously much
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: more of an industrial process. And just to kind of
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: give you the quick and dirty of how it's made today,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: it's made using largely washed pigskins that are then cleaned.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I actually found a video online where it shows the
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: process in reverse from a nice little gummy bear being
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: popped into someone's mouth, backward to all the different steps
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: of the manufacturing process until it ends up with a
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: cute little piggy looking you in the eye. I think
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: it was kind of designed to make you feel bad
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: about eating gummies, but we're not here to tell you
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: what to do. We are here to tell you how
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: gelatin is made. So these cleaned pigskins are washed and
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: then they are soaked and they're given an acid treatment,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: and the idea is to break down the tissues so
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: that the collagen is kind of made into smaller chunks
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: in these strands of gelatin that they call it gelatin noodles.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: In the manufacturing process, they thicken when they're cooled, and
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: then various stages of hot water extraction is done, and
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it's done up to six or seven times, with the
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: temperature of the water being raised for every step. And
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the earliest extractions are apparently the more powerful, or I
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: guess they hold their shape better, and the subsequent extractions
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it becomes a little bit weaker.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that baffles us about this
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: process is that most people growing up don't know the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: gelatine or your favorite flavor of jello does derive ultimately
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: from these animal proteins. I think, you know, it's not
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: quite on the level of Santa Claus spoiler alert everybody,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: but I think a lot of kids have no understanding
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: of the origin of gelatin that we just walked through
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and today we're asking why jello and gelatin fiend food
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: dishes became so prevalent for a time. It was a
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: fat They rose and they fell, and you can find
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: different cookbooks or different articles citing this rise. But we
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to track down the answer. And I want to
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: give a big shout out to Dan Myers over at
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the Daily Meal. In January of last year, he tackled
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: this question about why there were so many gelatin based
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: dishes in the nineteen fifties and the nineteen sixties. And
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: you know, you and I have looked through these old
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: recipes and it's true jello today is treated mainly as
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a dessert, but during that time period it would be
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the entire meal. You would have the sweet and the
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: savory together in this mold. There's really no other way
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to say it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and those molds themselves were staples of mid century
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: kitchens and all kinds of shapes. But this goes way
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: way farther back than the nineteen fifties and sixties, far
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: back really to medieval England.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And while while we're here in the medieval era in
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Western Europe, we need to add a we need to
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: add another aspect to the story another aspect to the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: story gross, I'm proud of that one. So one of
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: the one of the most important things about gelatine, aside
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: from it being a luxurious food stuff, is that it
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: was a pretty effective preserve. We have to remember that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: this was centuries before anything like refrigeration existed totally.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And also not to mention an article from history dot
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: com called Jiggle It The History of Geladin's Aspects and Jellies.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: The writer Nate Barksdale mentions the fact that, you know,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: we've talked about this in the Protestant Reformation and Butter episode.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Catholics were not allowed to eat meat on Fridays, so
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: there were late medieval cooks who came up with ways
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: of making jelly out of fish, and that was like
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: they would boil fish stock, even use the swim bladders
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and an eels were ways of making these meat jellies.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And there was another fish jelly product called icing glass
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: that was made using sturgeon. So this was a way
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: of being able to preserve that food and also you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: not eat pig products.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And jellied eels, by the way, are a traditional English
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: dish that is still popular today. And I really want
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: to try it. Have you ever tried jellied eals? Just
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: on the off chance we didn't talk about Oh no, no, no,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you're not into.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: It, not for me, thank you?
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Well, well, you know, let's put a pin in it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want to pear pressure you, but you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: what is life if not to be lived my old friend.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: One more little story in Japan, even in the late
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: sixteen hundreds, from the same hisstory dot com article, there
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was an innkeeper from Kyoto named Minoya Tarizoman who found
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: some congealed soup, some fish soup that had been thrown
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: away and discarded, and noticed that it was congealing. So
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: that kind of became the inspiration for seaweed jellies that
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: became quite popular throughout.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Asia and remain popular today. So we're doing pretty well
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: going chronologically here. Let's look at the first patent. The
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: first patent for the manufacturer of gelatin arrives in seventeen
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: fifty four in England and at the time kind of
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a novelty, but everybody knew about it. It's just now
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: somebody got the rights to it and it took off,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: especially with the upper crust.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, and it wasn't the patent that was
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: going to really win the day for gelatin based products.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: That comes a little later, but we do have the
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: introduction of kind of someone you could consider to be
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: the world's first celebrity chef, a man by the name
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: of Marie Antoine Karame, and in an NPR piece by
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Nicole Jankowski, she kind of describes how Karame really revolutionized
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the use of gelatin for these opulent culinary creations. He
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: was actually born the sixteenth child of very very poor
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: parents in Paris in the late seventeen hundreds, either seventeen
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: eighty three or seventeen eighty four, and was abandoned by
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: his parents during the most violent days of the French Revolution.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Worked his way up from a kitchen boy to a
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: apprentice of a well known pastry chef named Sylvan Bailey,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: and then found his way to having his own shop.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: And that was largely because he created these insane edible
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: replicas of late eighteenth century buildings, some of the most
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: famous buildings, things like the ancient ruins of Athens or
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Chinese fortresses and things like that, and they were quite
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: tall and were displayed in the window of his bakery
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and he turned some heads, folks like Napoleon Bonaparte and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: French diplomats like Charles Maurice did telerand Paragord decided to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: employ him, and Paragord actually got him to make a
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: full menu for his own personal estate. And it was
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: later when his creations made it to Europe when the
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Prince Regent, George the fourth asked him to come over
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and prepare a menu for a party that he was having.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: You see, was a huge fan of aspic, and I've
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: kind of been asking myself, like, what's different in aspec
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and gelatin in general. It turns out aspec specifically involves
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: using like a meat broth, like it's called a consumme,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and it typically is savory, so it can include things
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: like vegetables or sliced beef or chicken or anything you
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: could think of. And Krame coined this term chou freu,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: which was French for hot cold, and the idea was
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: that parts of it would be cooked and then it
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: would be served cold. But the whole idea was it
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: was a big it was a show. It was a
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: culinary display of that opulence that you talked about. This
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: is not something that anyone could have. You had to
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: have a whole staff to be able to prepare this thing.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it was a pretty serious, almost scientific process
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: of straining and setting, and in a time before industrialization
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and refrigeration, it was a really big deal to be
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: able to make this stuff. And it caught on in
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: New York high society as well, and even Thomas Jeffer
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Senators Monticello Estate, was a huge fan of having wine
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: gelatin served with meals.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: And that's a very interesting point there about the luxurious
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: nature and the luxurious origin of this food stuff, of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: this application of food, because later we're going to see
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: this change to a matter of convenience as well as status.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: We left off the story with Thomas Jefferson, Let's fast
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: forward to eighteen forty five when we meet a fellow
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: named Peter Cooper. Along with being the inventor of the
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: first American built steam locomotive, Pete I'm gonna call him.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Pete created a way to make gelatine more accessible to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the masses by making it a powder. This is where
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: we see another patent come into play. He called this
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: stuff portable gelatine because all you had to do was
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: to add hot water and Unfortunately, although it's sure caught
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: on later, Pete did not have much success marketing it,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and he didn't really pursue his invention. Occasionally he sold
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: it to cooks, but he didn't commercialize it beyond that.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: He was actually more into powdered glue. Believe it or not.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Why don't you think it caught on? It seemed like
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: it was such a to do to make this stuff
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: and for someone to be able to be like, hey,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: I got the quick fix right here for your gel cooking.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Right. That's a good point and it's a great question.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: So let's go to Rochester, New York, a little town
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: outside of there, in fact, called Leroy. This is where
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: we meet a couple by the name of Pearl and
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: may wait two at the time that we find them
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: are running a not entirely successful cough syrup and laxative business.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: It's a good combo. They should make a combination cough
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: syrup laxative from when you can't poop and you have
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: a bit of a group that they can have that
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: that can the tagline.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: It could be like that combination Pizza Hut and taco
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: bell song. I think we just figured out their marketing
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: So what's the scoop, Ben, What did old pearl in
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: May come up with?
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, Noel, because fortunately for this episode,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: it wasn't all mediocre laxatiff business, especially because we're a
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: family show. According to the Chemical Heritage Foundation, the Weight
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: couple was looking around for something they could do differently right,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a way to evolve their business into a more successful entity,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and they obtained that earlier patent for powdered gelatin. They
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: also encountered one of the big cons of gelatin at
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the time, which is that it was tasteless. It was
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: just sort of like this translucent.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Goop or you see a con. I see a blank
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: slate rife for innovation, and luckily.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: They did too, because they realized that they could add
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: syrups to this, and the gelatine, while it may not
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: have a flavor of its own, is an excellent platform
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: for other flavors. They blank slated it just as you said.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: They added sugar fruit syrups like raspberry, strawberry, lemon, orange.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: No word if it's orange flour, but orange that's close enough.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Orange flour is so vague. What kind of flower are
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: we talking?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: About I guess literally any flour that is orange rosewater.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting too, Ben, because before the Weights came
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: into the picture, your buddy Peter Cooper, he didn't just
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: patent the gelatin. He patented a gelatin dessert mix of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: his own creation, which was a powdered mix with lemons, sugar, eggs,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and various spices. But he just didn't have that marketing
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: prow ass that was required to really sell this to
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: the world. And there was a zeitgeist, the element to
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: this stuff too, that we'll get into in just a second.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: For now, you're probably wondering, folks, where did this name
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: jello come from? We'll tell you. So the Weight couple
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: had this gelatin idea right, and that they flavored it,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: made it about eighty eight percent sugar, but they were overjoyed.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Nobody was worried about the sugar content at that time.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: They were overjoyed because it tasted good. And may wait
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: named this new favorite dessert jello. It's important combining the
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: words gelatine and jelly, both of which derive from the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Latin meaning to congeal or to freeze.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: And oh man, it's good.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's mine.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I thought that was good. As for the O part,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: historians attribute it to just a naming trend. It was
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: apparently very popular to add oh at the end of
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: your product name.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Whammo, there we go, bingo.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like you're on a roll tally ho which
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I give us that that last one is?
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I was old. Yeah, do you think of anything? No,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: you're right there, like Wizzo, like not only product names,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: but even like company names, right.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, Blinko, Rinko, et cetera probably had a futuristic vibe. Apparently,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: according to the Dictionary of Trade Origins, which is a
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: real book, the practice began because adding oh seemed visually appealing.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: In addition, you could take a common word and easily
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: modify it to make a trademark. An example would be graino,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: real thing.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, draino. That's a legacy one too. And it's cool too,
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: because one thing that's neat about the jello thing I
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: mean needs not the right word. But it's sort of
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: like our buddy Edward Burnees who sort of figured out
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: how to show the pork industry how they could sell
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: this disgusting byproduct we now know as bacon and make
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: it like the number one breakfast food in America. Gelatine
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: was just a way of like using these discarded scraps
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: and bits from the meat packing industry and turning it
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: into something you could then sell back to the public.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: But the most important aspect of it that had been
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: missing up to this point was that marketing win that
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Edward Burnees who is the godfather of advertising. That's sort
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: of spin, yeah, exactly. So Pearl and May were great
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: at making Jello, but they weren't super fantastic at selling it,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: and they didn't have the capital to push it out
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: successfully in the market. And that's why on September eighth,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety nine, the couple sold the formula, patent
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: and the name entire Jello, the entire brand of Jello
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: to their neighbor, a man named Frank Woodward, who at
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: the time was the owner of the Genesee Food Company,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: and they sold it for about what was it, four
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars. Yeah, and with our handy dandy
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: inflation calculator, that equates to roughly eleven grand by today's standards.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: So Woodward knew his business. He was already successful at
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: selling packaged food and he took the techniques he learned
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and applied them to jello. He had his salesforce dressed
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in fancy suits and go around to houses offering free samples,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: right just like the bad kids do in every drug
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: war PSA the first one's free. And they would do
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: so many things to convince grocery store owners to stock
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: shelves with boxes of this powdered gelatine jello. And they
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: still had the original four flavors strawberry, raspberry, lemon, and orange.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: But it didn't succeed. Still, like three people have tried
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: this now with you know, middling success.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: And a great article on Sirius Eats by Sarah Gray
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: that kind of chronicles the history of the jello salad
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: mentions a little book by the name of the Jungle
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: by Upton Sinclair. It came out in nineteen oh six
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that essentially single handedly helped establish the Food and Drug Act,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: which created the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration that
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: we know today. And it became a big deal for
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: food to have labels and for things to be seen
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: as safe and pure. And Jello really jumped all over
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: that and started using terms like the safety bag and
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the repeated the word pure, according to this article, no
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: less than three times, even adding it to like the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: company's slogan.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Right, So let's take a closer look at Woodward here.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So he's doing his best. He's got the expertise. It
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: was around nineteen oh four when he and a new
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: employee named William Hummelbaugh had a brilliant idea. They put
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: ads for Jello in The Lady's Home Journal, a nationally
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: syndicated magazine, and they featured smiling, fashionable homemakers in spotless
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: white aprons, proclaiming that jello was quote America's favorite dessert,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and along with the worries of safety that were also
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist at the time, jello was propelled to
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: the mainstream. Annual sales jumped to two hundred and fifty
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars that would be around six a little over
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: six million today, and kids were begging for the dessert
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: because I'm sure, as you know, folks, if you can
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: convince kids to want something, the parents will usually follow
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the lead. And as Noel said, the cookbooks began to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: take off. World War One did affect rationing, and after
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: World War Two, Gelatin's success persisted, it became seen as
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a creative cooking tool, and at this point, finally, after
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: numerous people had tried to market gelatine, it began to
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: take off. And it took off in the craziest way.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: We found some weird examples.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. A guy named Charles Knox who had
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: his own I don't know. I look at it as
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: sort of the utilitarian cousin of Jello. It was just
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the Knox Gelatin company, and just to pack it looks
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: very much the same today as it did then, very
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: little bells and whistles, no flavors. He took it to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: the World's Fair in nineteen oh four and had a
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: competition where anyone could submit their own recipes using gelatin,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and a woman who here in this Serious Eats articles
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: only referred to as missus John Cook from Newcastle, Pennsylvania
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: one third prize in the competition with a thing that
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: she created called perfection salad. Not gentleman salad. Perfection salad.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And I actually found a recipe for this thing. I'm
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: gonna describe it to you. It is a mountain of
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: molded orange, kind of foggy gelatin, filled with an assortment
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: of shredded ruffage, and the recipe goes like this, two
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: envelopes unflavored gelatine, a half cup sugar, one teaspoon salt,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: one can apple juice, a half cup lemon juice, two
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: tablespoons vinegar, one cup shredded carrot, one cup sliced celery,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: one cup finally shredded cabbage, a half cup chopped green pepper,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: and one can chopped pimento. And it is if absolutely
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: foul looking, but it caught on. People loved it. They
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: wanted to be part of the jello wave of the future,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and this really kind of created this demand. And another
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: era we're using jello showed opulence because we were entering
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the time of refrigeration.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: As the United States enters this industrial boom, the world
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of two point five kids, a car in every garage,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and endless suburbs, people wanted to keep up with the Joneses,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: and one of the best ways to do it was
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: to have the latest appliance. Right is similar to microwave cooking.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: A little bit later in history, people wanted to have
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: refrigerators and if you were bringing a jello salad to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the pot luck or to the party, that I don't know,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: the kid's birthday party, the barbecue. It showed that you
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and your family had one of those new fangled refrigerators.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And we cannot, we cannot overestimate Missus Cook's effect on
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the demand for jello.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Food.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Historian James Beard observed in his in his book American
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Cookery that Missus Cook's victory at the World's Fair unleashed
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: a demand for congealed salads that, according to Beard, this
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: is in nineteen seventy two. He says, this a demand
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: for congealed salads that has grown alarmingly, particularly in the suburbs.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Alarmingly the invasion of the jella mold. Yeah, he went
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: on to as well, he did, he couched it. He
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: went on to say, quote, the jellied salad does have
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: its delights, though, and it is without question an American innovation,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: no doubt about it, mister Beard here here.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: So now we've set the stage. We've got knocks, we've
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: got jello. We've got people nowadays arguing that you can
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: follow American social history by looking at the history of jello.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: As I know, we haven't really talked about this much,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: but there was a whole kind of iconography associated with
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: jello packaging. Some of the early ones used illustrations by
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Norman Rockwell, right. And then there was what was it
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: ben the jello girl, sort of like a.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Spokes thing, introduced in nineteen oh eight and instrumental, crucial
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: in making American consumers connect the idea of jello with
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: again the purity, the innocence of childhood. And although sales
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: of sugar and you know, therefore jello were rationed during
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: World War One, between the twenties and thirties, the popularity
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: of gelatin salads soars and there were pragmatic reasons behind this.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: The depression forced homemakers to stretch ingredients as far as possible.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: That also included things like sugar that you would have separately,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and many recues require you to add sugar. You didn't
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: have to do that when you're using jello because the
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: sugar was already part of the mix.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a really good point. And so now
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: we see not just the idea of refrigeration that comes
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: into play later, but we also see the idea of status,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: of proving to your friends and neighbors that you can
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: still do some top notch entertaining despite the rations despite
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the shortages. I've got a recipe for all of relish
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: which I've been to save you the save you the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: trouble here, folks, it seems kind of gross. Olives, pickles, celery,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and vinegar all in a lovely a lovely amalgamation with
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: lime jello, right right, But now we see kind of
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a Bernesian if I could use that word, a Bernasian
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: approach to marketing here, or an aspect of it, because
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: we have to ask ourselves, did people genuinely like this
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: stuff or did they instead like being people who could
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: make it?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Well. It's like I said, with my mom and the
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: gentleman salad, her mom would have come from that original
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: time where this was something that was seen as a
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: status symbol, and she was all about these status symbols.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That's where my mom got the whole idea of having
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: a lovely table place setting. It was all very, very
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: important during times where things were much more scarce to
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: show that you were kind of above the fray. I
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: guess I mean it seems a little, I don't know,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: a little shallow to me personally, but I can see
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: how it would have felt important to kind of keep
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: your spirits up and to make your family feel like
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: you had you know, you were one of the halves,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: I guess. But of course, like things do, these kind
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: of Jello salad aspect meat monstrosities fell out of favor,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: and Jello kind of took it was its original place
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: as an easy to make dessert. You had Bill Cosby
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: swooping in, you know, back when he wasn't persona non
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: grata advertising Jello jigglers. Remember Jello jigglers. Sure for kids
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: they used like a little cookie cutter and they were
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: a little They used a little bit stiffer gelatine, I think,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: so you could pick them up and play with them.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: They wanted a gritty reboot. You're absolutely right. By the
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, the golden age of Jello
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: had sort of passed, and that's why in nineteen eighty
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: six they decided to rebrand. They got Bill Cosby, phenomenally
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: successful comic at the time, and it was sort of
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the world made new because Americans were no longer as
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: readily familiar with the concept of aspects. And if you
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: had brought a perfection salad or a couple of other
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: really choice gelatin dishes, that will probably read off at
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: the end. If you brought those to a pot luck
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: in the seventies or eighties, people would be like, what
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: are you doing? I thought we were friends. Why can't
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you just tell me you don't like me?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of like bringing someone a fruitcake for Christmas.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we did do an episode in the Oldest Fruitcake.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Remember that, I do.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: And it goes back to that that question you asked earlier, Ben,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: did people really like the way this stuff tasted? Or
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: was it just like the placebo effect of kind of
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: associating it with status and therefore you could choke it down.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I like all kinds of stuff, Ben, I'm a relatively
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: adventurous eater, but literally every single one of these things
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: seems absolutely inedible and disgusting to me. And I don't
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: think I could ever convince myself otherwise, you know.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we also have to remember that that numerous
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: folks in the audience wrote back about vinegar pie, and
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: you were all absolutely correct. I'm kind of converted. Oh
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: it sounds great, but I'm not gonna tell you what
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna try. Let's let's read off some of
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: these gross recipes you want to for sure. All right,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: So emeralds candle lope is not that bad. You put lime,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: jello and canned pineapp on the candle.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: It's fun.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: It fills the it, it fills the gap.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Mm hm.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: There's another one with a melon. You can do that
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: kind of You cut a half a melon and a
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: half and you put jello in the in the hole
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: and that you know, you can scoop it out, so
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: it's sort of like double texture for your money.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Tell you what though, salmon and cottage cheese with boiled
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: eggs as a garnish. Nah, no, sir, no, I I've
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: just thought it's a jellied lamb salad. No, it's a pass.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I know we talked about lime jelly salads, but do
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: we talk about lime cheese salad.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Nope?
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Do you want to skip that with it? Yeah? How
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: do you?
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Oh? You know, I do have that that I think
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: is a modern example of this actually working and for
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: me personally, there is a place here in Atlanta called
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: the Spotted Trotter that makes their own pataise, and a
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: lot of patais will have a little layer of aspect
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: on the top, so it's just like a small layer
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of like a ginger aspect, so that it's made with
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: like a consume or a beef broth, but it's flavored
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: with ginger. And when it's almost like a jelly or
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: a chutney of some kind. So it's really good for
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: like you know, mixing with a pet or putting on
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a piece of toast or something like that. It sort
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: of mixes the savory with the sweet. But to me,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: it's when you really go full board down that you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: savory jello thing that's just just I like it, maybe
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: as like a garnish or as an additive, but you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: all on its own. Oh boy, and the photography and
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: some of these cookbooks, it's just like who gave the
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: green light to that picture?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: You know. We invite you to check these out firsthand
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: and send us some of your favorites. And favorite here
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: is a tricky word. It can be the one that
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: you were most fascinated by or the one you have
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: actually tried. We of course, are not knocking anybody's personal taste.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: You can send us that stuff to ridiculous at HowStuffWorks
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: dot com or hit us up on the social media
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: the Facebook, the Instagram, where we are also Ridiculous History.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: As always, we'd like to thank our super producer Casey
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Pegram as well as author Maria Trimarchi, who wrote Ridiculous History.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: What's for Dinner Meet Jello available on howstufforks dot com.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Also thanks to our pal Alex Williams for composing our theme,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: and most importantly, thanks to you guys for tuning in
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and hanging out with us for another episode of Ridiculous History.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: to your favorite shows