Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2535 - Andrew Wilson

Transcript

#2535 - Andrew Wilson · The Joe Rogan Experience

0:02
Speaker 1: Podcast. Check it out The Joe Logan Experience, Shrain by Day,
0:06
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan podcast, by Night, All Day.
0:13
Speaker 2: Good to see you, er, You've been great, great, great.
0:16
Speaker 2: We're just talking about peace of mind and dealing with kooks.
0:20
Speaker 2: Is there anybody who argues online more than you do?
0:22
Speaker 2: You might be the you might be the number one
0:25
Speaker 2: guy who I see in clips, like constantly getting in
0:27
Speaker 2: arguments with people online.
0:29
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that there is anybody who takes on
0:32
Speaker 1: more debates yearly, high and low profile than I do.
0:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even casual ones.
0:37
Speaker 1: Correct, It's like you're always sparring.
0:39
Speaker 2: It's like you're always uh you know.
0:43
Speaker 1: Keeps you uh sharp for sure, keeps you sharp if
0:46
Speaker 1: you're so. I also have this rule that you know,
0:51
Speaker 1: there's like the Clout game online, right, all these people
0:53
Speaker 1: want to play the cloud game.
0:55
Speaker 2: What is exactly the Clout game.
0:57
Speaker 1: It's like you have you don't have a enough follower
1:00
Speaker 1: account for me to respond to you. You don't have
1:03
Speaker 1: a big enough audience for me to discuss things with you,
1:06
Speaker 1: you know, things like that, and it's like I hate that.
1:09
Speaker 2: That seems pretty silly.
1:10
Speaker 1: It is silly, and some of the best debates I've
1:13
Speaker 1: ever had with guys who had like four followers on
1:16
Speaker 1: X and the like, let's go to this X space
1:18
Speaker 1: and talk and I'll hop in there with him, and
1:20
Speaker 1: I'm like an hour later, I go, Man, I had
1:22
Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff to say.
1:24
Speaker 2: A lot of people out there, and oftentimes those are
1:27
Speaker 2: the ones who don't have a lot of followers because
1:29
Speaker 2: they're not sucked into the social media web. They're just
1:34
Speaker 2: out there thinking and doing things and living their life.
1:36
Speaker 2: A lot a lot of fucking interesting people out there
1:38
Speaker 2: that you never hear from, and a lot of not
1:40
Speaker 2: interesting people you hear from constantly.
1:43
Speaker 1: All the time.
1:43
Speaker 2: It's like the politician thing, you know. It's like we
1:47
Speaker 2: were talking about that the other day, Like there's this
1:50
Speaker 2: lady that's running for got something, she running for governor Wisconsin,
1:57
Speaker 2: Is that what it is? And she was just talking
1:59
Speaker 2: about how Thanksgiving hurts people, Like what, yeah, yeah, I
2:05
Speaker 2: don't know her background. I think it's the same lady.
2:07
Speaker 2: At one point time, she was in a mental institution.
2:10
Speaker 1: Why does not shock me?
2:12
Speaker 2: Doesn't shock me now, But this was the point we're saying,
2:14
Speaker 2: nobody wants to be the fucking governor, and the people
2:17
Speaker 2: that do are there's a high percentage of Kook's.
2:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, power attracts strange people. Sometimes, it attracts good people, yes,
2:26
Speaker 1: occasionally and often, but often those are the people who
2:29
Speaker 1: go in and they want to change it. Like the
2:32
Speaker 1: idea that they have is, look, I'm trying to run
2:34
Speaker 1: for the right reasons because I actually want to change
2:36
Speaker 1: how this works. But they're few and far between, and
2:38
Speaker 1: they get killed. A lot of them get killed or
2:42
Speaker 1: they get run off. A lot of them just get
2:44
Speaker 1: involved in that like their normal day to day life,
2:50
Speaker 1: you know, from twenty years prior. Now suddenly that's coming up,
2:53
Speaker 1: you know, and they have to defend themselves against criticisms
2:56
Speaker 1: that they never would have believed that they would have
2:58
Speaker 1: to defend themselves from. Yeah, and so character assassination I
3:02
Speaker 1: think takes a lot of the good actors out. They
3:04
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with a character assassination.
3:06
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like they want total compliance on both sides,
3:09
Speaker 2: on both parties, total compliance with the party. And if
3:13
Speaker 2: they think that you're going to be some outside of
3:15
Speaker 2: rebel that's going to take over the fuck you.
3:18
Speaker 1: Well you kind of I think you kind of have
3:20
Speaker 1: to have that a little bit though, because if you've
3:22
Speaker 1: got universal suffrage, necessarily everything converges into a two party system.
3:29
Speaker 1: So as suffrage expanded throughout history, you saw the emergence
3:32
Speaker 1: of parties right alongside of it, as more people became
3:35
Speaker 1: enfranchised to vote.
3:36
Speaker 2: So you see, if women couldn't vote, there wouldn't be parties.
3:39
Speaker 1: There probably would still be parties, it'd probably still be
3:42
Speaker 1: a two party system. It's just that how it works
3:46
Speaker 1: is that if we continuously expand suffrage, let's just say
3:50
Speaker 1: we expand it to another group of men. Now those
3:52
Speaker 1: men have some special interest, right, So if it's not
3:55
Speaker 1: just property owners, let's say it's now you know people
3:59
Speaker 1: who live in a city, Well, they want a levy
4:01
Speaker 1: pass so that their kids can go to school, right,
4:04
Speaker 1: so they pass it on the property owners. Now they
4:06
Speaker 1: can vote to hand themselves money. So now you have
4:09
Speaker 1: a wedge issue. And so you'll see parties start to
4:12
Speaker 1: form around these wedge issues. And the more you have
4:14
Speaker 1: universal suffrage, the more you end up with party politics
4:18
Speaker 1: until you have a convergence of two and usually it's
4:20
Speaker 1: along a certain wedge issues. So the only way in
4:24
Speaker 1: a dialectic where you have two parties a Democrat and
4:27
Speaker 1: Republican to get your legislation passed is to be able
4:32
Speaker 1: to outvote the other side, right, so you kind of
4:35
Speaker 1: have to have them all in line or else.
4:38
Speaker 2: That makes sense, And there's no room in this country
4:41
Speaker 2: at the current point in time for another party. No
4:44
Speaker 2: one would accept it. We think about other parties like
4:47
Speaker 2: they're a goof the Green Party, like that's a protest vote.
4:52
Speaker 1: You know, Libertarian Party has done that.
4:53
Speaker 2: I've done a few protest votes back in my day.
4:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I talked with I was arguing with Rex Jones
4:59
Speaker 1: the other it's Alex Jones's kid about this, and I
5:03
Speaker 1: told him, I'm like, look, you don't have a prayer
5:06
Speaker 1: in starting a third party in time for mid terms
5:09
Speaker 1: and then the presidential election that's coming up in just
5:12
Speaker 1: a couple of short years. You're not going to be
5:14
Speaker 1: able to replace this system. You're not going to be
5:17
Speaker 1: able to do the two.
5:18
Speaker 2: Their roots go too deep, they're too intertwined. All the
5:22
Speaker 2: power and an influence.
5:23
Speaker 1: Like think about the infrastructure, billions of dollars in NGO funding,
5:27
Speaker 1: all this outreach program just to get on a ballot
5:30
Speaker 1: in a state is often a multimillion dollars thing that
5:35
Speaker 1: you need to have a party apparatus behind.
5:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of nuts, right, multi million dollars to
5:42
Speaker 2: spend to get a job that pays you one hundred
5:45
Speaker 2: and seventy thousand dollars. Huh what a Why do you
5:52
Speaker 2: think that fucking student loans are a scam?
5:55
Speaker 1: That's a crazy I love when these guys come in
5:58
Speaker 1: for their one hundred thousand dollars your job, and then
6:01
Speaker 1: they leave and they have twenty five million dollars in
6:04
Speaker 1: the bank, you know.
6:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, that happens often. When what happens when a way
6:07
Speaker 2: to get all that money?
6:08
Speaker 1: Yeah? How about the ill han Omar thing?
6:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that one's that one's wild. Like they estimated
6:14
Speaker 2: her net worth somewhere like in a it was millions,
6:19
Speaker 2: like thirty million or something crazy, and then she said
6:22
Speaker 2: it was an error and then it was actually like
6:26
Speaker 2: a lot less than that, like one hundred thousand or
6:27
Speaker 2: something like really reasonable. Like you imagine if your account
6:32
Speaker 2: was so bad You're like, hey, Mike, how much money
6:35
Speaker 2: am I worth?
6:37
Speaker 1: And he's like, I think you worth thirty million?
6:39
Speaker 2: And you're like, fuck, yeah, dude, thinking about buying a
6:43
Speaker 2: corvette and.
6:44
Speaker 1: He got and he got three thousand dollars in the bank.
6:47
Speaker 2: And then you call Mike the next day and you say,
6:50
Speaker 2: so a thirty million because actually it was an error,
6:54
Speaker 2: You're worth about one hundred grand. You'd be like, hey, Mike,
6:57
Speaker 2: I'm going to kill you cause you still thirty million
7:00
Speaker 2: dollars for me.
7:01
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. And do you think do
7:03
Speaker 1: you think maybe she like strategically started moving some things
7:07
Speaker 1: with her accountant.
7:08
Speaker 2: So how about it was like she add that they
7:09
Speaker 2: owned that never made a bottle of wine?
7:12
Speaker 1: Sounds right? Is that the case the case.
7:14
Speaker 2: With one of those businesses that closed down? Listen and
7:17
Speaker 2: pick on her. It's it's if you look at the
7:20
Speaker 2: Republicans and the Democrats when it comes to insider trading,
7:24
Speaker 2: it's fucking everybody. It's red blue, red blue, red blue.
7:27
Speaker 1: It is.
7:28
Speaker 2: This is not a one party thing. This is why
7:30
Speaker 2: it's never gonna stop. They're both dipping their toes in,
7:33
Speaker 2: they're both having fun.
7:35
Speaker 1: You basically always have the expectation of corruption. So even
7:38
Speaker 1: if you put your candidates in so you're trying to
7:40
Speaker 1: get something out of that, right, some issue trying to
7:43
Speaker 1: push forward, you almost baked into the system. Have to
7:46
Speaker 1: accept a certain amount of corruption is going to come
7:48
Speaker 1: out of that. So, like, let me give you a
7:50
Speaker 1: really good example of that, a key wedge issue like abortion.
7:53
Speaker 1: So you got Christians who are just adamant, right, just
7:56
Speaker 1: got to stop. Well, they accept if it's the case
8:00
Speaker 1: that candidates are really moving the post on that, if
8:03
Speaker 1: they're really moving legislation against abortion, do you think that
8:07
Speaker 1: they would turn a blind eye to a little bit
8:10
Speaker 1: of corruption. Probably.
8:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely some compromises that get made, both on
8:15
Speaker 2: your morals and the way you view financial issues and
8:20
Speaker 2: all kinds of things. I mean, it's never especially if
8:23
Speaker 2: there's only two parties, like you're with us or against
8:26
Speaker 2: it and them it's good and evil.
8:28
Speaker 1: That's it.
8:29
Speaker 2: In this country. That's really how people look at it.
8:32
Speaker 2: On both sides. It's good versus evil.
8:34
Speaker 1: But you have an alternative there that's even worse or
8:38
Speaker 1: can at least sometimes be worse. So let's go to
8:40
Speaker 1: like the UK or Canada or places like this where
8:42
Speaker 1: they do round voting. You have more than two parties,
8:45
Speaker 1: that's true, But do you really want your president to
8:47
Speaker 1: be elected with ten percent of the vote, right, fifteen
8:50
Speaker 1: percent of the vote. You want your politicians to be
8:52
Speaker 1: put in with nine percent of the vote because that
8:55
Speaker 1: can happen. That's cool, you know, yeah, between these rounds
8:58
Speaker 1: and so you think about it and you go this
9:00
Speaker 1: two party system sucks. But then you look at other
9:02
Speaker 1: places and have multiple parties and they do their rounds
9:05
Speaker 1: of voting and you're like, wait, see, you could get
9:07
Speaker 1: elected with only fourteen percent of them, so everybody else
9:10
Speaker 1: hates you.
9:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the weird argument of the benevolent dictator. I'm
9:15
Speaker 2: sure you've heard this argument, but that a society is
9:18
Speaker 2: best run by benevolent dictator, someone who really truly has
9:22
Speaker 2: ultimate power but actually cares, a good person that cares
9:25
Speaker 2: about the people, that really just wants things to be
9:28
Speaker 2: reasonable and have a working meritocracy and have a working
9:32
Speaker 2: economy and have working education and everything work correctly and
9:36
Speaker 2: weed out all of the cor fraud and corruption because
9:39
Speaker 2: he's a king and he can just like you can,
9:41
Speaker 2: just do it, do it whatever the fuck you want.
9:43
Speaker 2: You know. Look, I have only been to Dubai one
9:46
Speaker 2: time because we had a UFC over there and I
9:49
Speaker 2: had to go to the weigh ins. The ways we're
9:51
Speaker 2: in Dubai.
9:52
Speaker 1: Saw a lot of.
9:52
Speaker 2: Fucking Ferraris and Lamborghinis. In ten minutes but from what
9:56
Speaker 2: I hear, it's the most safe place on earth.
10:00
Speaker 1: Like literally, like there's Romani under of Lad. Yeah, like
10:04
Speaker 1: what would just like Romania under of Lad the Impaler?
10:08
Speaker 1: How can you how can you hang gold in the
10:10
Speaker 1: street And he doesn't look around a bunch of people
10:13
Speaker 1: and bail everywhere.
10:14
Speaker 2: He would do them in designs. He would do them
10:17
Speaker 2: in geometric patterns, so you'd realize he's being creative with
10:20
Speaker 2: impaling people.
10:21
Speaker 1: He wasn't messing around.
10:22
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, you know his story. Yeah, he
10:25
Speaker 2: was kidnapped when he was a small boy.
10:27
Speaker 1: Whoa a lot to that guy and his brother. Yeah,
10:31
Speaker 1: they're they're you know inter brother conflict that they had
10:36
Speaker 1: for years and how he got power lost power. Yeah,
10:39
Speaker 1: there's a there's a tale to be told about Glad
10:42
Speaker 1: the Impaler, for sure, but probably a pretty safe place
10:45
Speaker 1: to live.
10:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dubai, Like if they catch you with a bag
10:52
Speaker 2: of weed, you're going to jail for the rest of
10:53
Speaker 2: your life or they'll kill you.
10:55
Speaker 1: Yeah you're done. Yeah, they've they have crazy loss.
10:57
Speaker 2: There was one guy, I think it was due who
11:02
Speaker 2: I think he had like marijuana seeds in the sole
11:08
Speaker 2: of his shoes.
11:09
Speaker 1: Or something like that.
11:10
Speaker 2: Like he had stepped on a marijuana seed maybe in
11:13
Speaker 2: his apartment. Yeah, and he was didn't have any drugs
11:17
Speaker 2: on him, nothing, And they put him in jail for
11:19
Speaker 2: a long time. Man, I forget. This was a few
11:22
Speaker 2: years back, but it was a crazy case. There was
11:25
Speaker 2: another lady who got arrested. I forget what happened, but
11:28
Speaker 2: she later a guy tested positive for poppy because she
11:33
Speaker 2: had poppy seed bagel. I don't know if you know this,
11:36
Speaker 2: but if you're testing for drugs and you eat a
11:39
Speaker 2: poppy seed bagel, you could pop for heroin.
11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've heard that, but doesn't with modern test,
11:45
Speaker 1: isn't it a little bit better now?
11:46
Speaker 2: I hope? So, I don't know. Two thousand and eight,
11:49
Speaker 2: this is a British traveler in Dubai stopped the airport
11:51
Speaker 2: lab found zero points zero zero three grams of cannabis
11:55
Speaker 2: in his shoe sole.
11:58
Speaker 1: Holy fuck. Yeah, that's crazy, it's crazy.
12:01
Speaker 2: He received a mandatory four year sentence under the UAE's
12:05
Speaker 2: strict drug laws, though he was later released early early
12:10
Speaker 2: is early.
12:11
Speaker 1: So the British government came in and tried to barter
12:13
Speaker 1: him out of there.
12:14
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, I guess, or the whole world must have
12:17
Speaker 2: been so outraged. I mean, at a certain point in time,
12:21
Speaker 2: they have to say, we run the risk of never
12:23
Speaker 2: having tourists visit us again. And Duvius a very tourist
12:26
Speaker 2: central place. Sure, but I have a friend who moved
12:29
Speaker 2: over there a while back. He moved back to America recently,
12:32
Speaker 2: but he moved over there and he was he was like, dude,
12:35
Speaker 2: it's just safe for me. You know, I don't worry
12:38
Speaker 2: if I go out. You know someone's gonna like. He's
12:40
Speaker 2: big black guy. He's like, I don't want to get shot.
12:43
Speaker 1: He goes.
12:43
Speaker 2: I worry if I go out. He goes over here,
12:45
Speaker 2: there's nothing like that. There's no crime, he goes. Everything's nice,
12:48
Speaker 2: everything's clean. You can leave a rolex on the street.
12:50
Speaker 2: They'll pick it up and turn it into the cops. Like, no,
12:53
Speaker 2: nobody steals nothing over there.
12:54
Speaker 1: But there's a trade off for that, right my geometric
13:00
Speaker 1: yea of people everywhere on spikes who we impaled from
13:04
Speaker 1: their buttocks through their throats and they don't die immediately, No,
13:08
Speaker 1: go for a while.
13:09
Speaker 2: I don't think they do that in Dubai, but they
13:11
Speaker 2: let you know, Yeah, you're not fucking around there's no
13:14
Speaker 2: fucking around. I saw some lady getting a screaming match.
13:18
Speaker 2: She was trying to do the thing that a lot
13:19
Speaker 2: of people do in America at the airport, and she
13:23
Speaker 2: got a screaming thing with the lady at the counter,
13:26
Speaker 2: and they're like, not today. They just come over and
13:29
Speaker 2: fucking cuff you up and take you away, Like you can't.
13:33
Speaker 2: You can't do that there. You can't, Like you can't
13:35
Speaker 2: spirit airlines.
13:37
Speaker 1: You know, do you prefer that? Would you prefer that? Society?
13:41
Speaker 2: I don't think people should be able to just fucking
13:43
Speaker 2: scream and yell at people that work behind counters. I
13:46
Speaker 2: don't think that's productive. I don't think smacking them in
13:49
Speaker 2: the head because they can't get you a flight. We've
13:51
Speaker 2: all seen that kind of shit. There should be zero
13:53
Speaker 2: tolerance for that kind of violence.
13:55
Speaker 1: But what if we tweaked it a different way? Okay,
13:58
Speaker 1: so what if instead of bringing in like some crazy
14:01
Speaker 1: sharia in order to make sure that that happened, she
14:03
Speaker 1: brought back dueling, Like wouldn't wouldn't dueling solve like ninety
14:07
Speaker 1: five percent of this dueling requires.
14:10
Speaker 2: People to wait before they turn around and shoot that.
14:15
Speaker 2: I'm not trusting a guy who wants to kill me
14:17
Speaker 2: to not jump the gun.
14:18
Speaker 1: But that depends on the rules, right, Like you could
14:20
Speaker 1: adjust the rules a little bit. I can't adjust the rules,
14:23
Speaker 1: but it's like if you could, if you could call
14:25
Speaker 1: somebody out for smirching you or something like that, Right,
14:29
Speaker 1: It's like, I think people would probably be a lot
14:31
Speaker 1: more polite, wouldn't they?
14:32
Speaker 2: They probably would. I think there's probably a better way
14:34
Speaker 2: than shooting each other in the street.
14:36
Speaker 1: Probably probably, But there's probably a better way that even like.
14:39
Speaker 2: Fist fights like that, there's a better way than that too.
14:42
Speaker 2: You don't have to fist fight, come on, but you
14:45
Speaker 2: know there there's certainly something to be said for a
14:50
Speaker 2: society that is more orderly and people follow the rules,
14:54
Speaker 2: and as long as the rules make sense, and these
14:57
Speaker 2: people are friendly and kind and they make for good
15:00
Speaker 2: community members that.
15:02
Speaker 1: They're not putting up with mentally a lunatics just rocking
15:04
Speaker 1: around causing problems everywhere, which is what American society is
15:08
Speaker 1: now dealing with.
15:09
Speaker 2: Would you see what just happened in Wisconsin where they
15:12
Speaker 2: had the they had their own autonomous zone. Oh, it
15:15
Speaker 2: just got broken up today by the cops.
15:16
Speaker 1: I didn't see he got broken up?
15:17
Speaker 2: You got broken up today? Yeah, see if you can
15:19
Speaker 2: find it, Jamie, there was a video footage just fucking
15:23
Speaker 2: army of cops came in, arrested everybody's spray paint all
15:27
Speaker 2: the streets, and it.
15:29
Speaker 1: Just gets declared autonomous zones on public Like, what is
15:33
Speaker 1: remember chas and chops?
15:35
Speaker 2: We have it.
15:36
Speaker 1: We've just declared this at an autonomous zone.
15:39
Speaker 2: Sorry, Madison officials clear Willie Street encampment. Police officers arrest
15:43
Speaker 2: protesters who resist at Corey Ruiz memorial site.
15:47
Speaker 1: I do not know this Corey Ruiz story, the Corey
15:52
Speaker 1: Ruie's memorial show. Was it something ice related? Perhaps?
15:55
Speaker 2: I think that's what this is, right, Is that what
15:58
Speaker 2: this is, Jamie? Did something happen? Something happened, someone got shot?
16:04
Speaker 1: Right? You don't know about it either. See that's the problem.
16:09
Speaker 2: There's so many fucking things in the news that it's
16:11
Speaker 2: impossible unless you're a maniac and you're online all day,
16:15
Speaker 2: it's impossible to know exactly what's going on. You take
16:17
Speaker 2: a couple of days off and smell the roses and
16:20
Speaker 2: you get back online.
16:21
Speaker 1: How come you haven't comment on what is it? You
16:24
Speaker 1: got to catch up for four days for one day.
16:27
Speaker 2: Also, like what hot take? Maybe you shouldn't have a
16:30
Speaker 2: hot take on everything. Maybe some things you need to
16:33
Speaker 2: like let it play out in the news, like let
16:35
Speaker 2: people dissect it.
16:37
Speaker 1: See now that I wish that that was a message
16:40
Speaker 1: that more people got the idea that you don't have
16:43
Speaker 1: to rush immediately out there to tell everybody your latest
16:47
Speaker 1: hottest take, which is, oftentimes, by the way, stupid. Yea,
16:51
Speaker 1: a stupid take because you have no information, right, but
16:55
Speaker 1: you gotta rush out there. You're gonna get those views
16:57
Speaker 1: and clicks quick. But then you're you're married to that take.
17:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, and unless you come back and make another video
17:04
Speaker 2: or make another take and explain why you fucked it up.
17:07
Speaker 2: But I think that there's there's something to be said
17:10
Speaker 2: for uh, Like there's a lot of stories that are
17:13
Speaker 2: in the news, Like I don't fucking know exactly what
17:16
Speaker 2: happened there, Like let's let this one play out a
17:18
Speaker 2: little bit, Like this one seems weird, like if I
17:21
Speaker 2: come out with a hot tail, like who fucking knows
17:22
Speaker 2: what's really going on with fifteen to Like there's so
17:26
Speaker 2: many different stories in the news, it's impossible. Was that
17:30
Speaker 2: Jimmy I didn't find.
17:31
Speaker 3: The details but it is a police killing. It says
17:33
Speaker 3: officer involved eoting of Corey Ruiz, and that's I don't know,
17:38
Speaker 3: it justn't.
17:39
Speaker 4: I'm looking for evidence and video. I didn't check Twitter
17:41
Speaker 4: or anything yet.
17:43
Speaker 1: Put it into perplexity.
17:45
Speaker 2: Ask perplexity, what is the controversy about the killing of
17:48
Speaker 2: Corey Ruiz. Okay, you can't.
17:53
Speaker 1: You can't be this.
17:54
Speaker 2: We're not designed to get all the bad news of
17:57
Speaker 2: eight billion people. We're just not designed for that. That's
18:00
Speaker 2: not a normal thing for a person to absorb.
18:02
Speaker 1: It's also driving a lot of people crazy, crazy, driving them,
18:06
Speaker 1: driving them to insanity. They think they start to see
18:10
Speaker 1: conspiracy everywhere, They start to see, you know, plots of
18:15
Speaker 1: interest where there aren't any right It starts to actually
18:18
Speaker 1: drive people mad because they can't disassociate between the fact
18:23
Speaker 1: that there is sensationalism and then there's reality and the
18:27
Speaker 1: way that people think. They think in frames. So if
18:30
Speaker 1: you think in a conspiratorial frame, you're usually taking tangential
18:34
Speaker 1: things and piecing them together that don't belong. But then
18:37
Speaker 1: if you think in an autistic frame, as my friend
18:40
Speaker 1: Paul would say, if you think an autistic frame, you're
18:43
Speaker 1: going to hone down so deep on one detail that
18:46
Speaker 1: you miss the entirety of the picture. Right, So you
18:49
Speaker 1: have to have an idea between these two things. Right,
18:52
Speaker 1: It's like, conspiracies exist. We know this, Many of them exist.
18:56
Speaker 1: There's many of them. I can stay off the top
18:58
Speaker 1: of my head, like mk ultra that was a good
19:00
Speaker 1: spiracy that existed. Yeah, right, there's but there's also a
19:04
Speaker 1: lot that don't, right, and so how do you disassociate
19:07
Speaker 1: between the two.
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Speaker 2: a United States audience, and you have to come to
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Speaker 2: the recognition recognition that some of these fake ones were
20:21
Speaker 2: planted to make the real ones look stupid like his own. Yes,
20:25
Speaker 2: this is a common strategy. What was it, Jerry? You
20:28
Speaker 2: pulled it up? Controversy centers on whether Madison police needed
20:32
Speaker 2: to use deadly force against thirty eight year old Cory Ruiz,
20:35
Speaker 2: a black man, during a July twenty twenty six arrest,
20:38
Speaker 2: and on the lack of body camera footage, oh conflicting
20:41
Speaker 2: narratives about the threat he posed and the broader concerns
20:46
Speaker 2: about racialized policing. Police respond to reports of a man
20:50
Speaker 2: allegedly looking into parked vehicles and stealing bicycles. During the
20:55
Speaker 2: attempted arrest by four officers, a taser was deployed but
20:58
Speaker 2: reportedly failed. Police say Ruiz pulled a knife and injured
21:02
Speaker 2: an officer, after which that officer shot and killed him.
21:06
Speaker 2: Cell phone video recorded by a bystander shows part of
21:08
Speaker 2: the struggle and shooting and quickly went viral, triggering protests
21:12
Speaker 2: and public outcry use of deadly force versus alternatives. Community
21:17
Speaker 2: members and Ruiz's family questioned why lethal force was used
21:20
Speaker 2: when multiple officers were already restraining him on the ground
21:23
Speaker 2: and a taser had been deployed, arguing that he did
21:26
Speaker 2: not deserve to be shot to death in the street.
21:29
Speaker 2: Lack of body cameras. None of the officers involved were
21:32
Speaker 2: wearing body worn cameras, so the only visual recording is
21:35
Speaker 2: bystander video, which fuels distrust and demands for more accountability
21:39
Speaker 2: and measures and technology.
21:41
Speaker 1: We need more flock cameras.
21:43
Speaker 2: Conflicting narratives about threat. Police symphasized that Reis stabbed or
21:47
Speaker 2: injured an officer with a knife, framing the shooting as
21:50
Speaker 2: a response to an immediate threat. Critics and loved ones
21:53
Speaker 2: questioned whether the threat justified shooting a restrained man and
21:56
Speaker 2: whether de escalation was properly used. Well, first of all, well,
22:01
Speaker 2: if he really did stab a police officer, If he's
22:04
Speaker 2: stabbing a police officer like they are supposed to shoot him,
22:08
Speaker 2: that is you can't take you can't say someone's stabbing me,
22:12
Speaker 2: I hope they're only hurting me?
22:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, right? Or how do you assess the amount of
22:17
Speaker 1: force that you can use back when someone's stabbing you.
22:20
Speaker 1: I think that that's responding with lethal force?
22:22
Speaker 2: What did you say, Jamie? Yeah, let's find the video.
22:25
Speaker 2: But it's also how big is this guy? If he's
22:28
Speaker 2: got all these people and are these like a bunch
22:30
Speaker 2: of like shitty, untrained police officers who don't know any
22:34
Speaker 2: martial arts. When you say he's restrained, like how restrained
22:37
Speaker 2: was he?
22:38
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
22:39
Speaker 2: Like if you got two dudes that are built like
22:43
Speaker 2: Tony Hinchcliff and they're trying to hold me back from
22:44
Speaker 2: fucking somebody up.
22:45
Speaker 1: It's not gonna do nothing that, you know what I mean?
22:47
Speaker 1: It's like, how big is this guy? What happened?
22:51
Speaker 2: Was he the one that was stealing things? Or was
22:53
Speaker 2: he wrongly accused? Does he have a record? Is he
22:57
Speaker 2: a violent person? I don't know anything? Is he a
23:01
Speaker 2: complete innocent bystander? This is the video? Video contains graphic content. Okay,
23:09
Speaker 2: that's it, So there's.
23:12
Speaker 1: Probably multiple videos. Yeah.
23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:16
Speaker 1: The thing about the tasers is it's fucking weird.
23:19
Speaker 2: Man tasers on some people, they lock them up and
23:23
Speaker 2: they fucking and they fall down. I've seen guys just
23:27
Speaker 2: scream and rip those things off their chests like it's nothing.
23:30
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes those probes don't penetrate either, right right.
23:33
Speaker 2: I think some of those tasers are a bunk to
23:36
Speaker 2: Some of the tasers are just ship equipment. I mean,
23:39
Speaker 2: that's the only thing that makes sense.
23:40
Speaker 1: So these guys, did you ever play with one of
23:43
Speaker 1: the handhelds when you were a kid. No, somebody always
23:45
Speaker 1: had a handheld somewhere. No.
23:47
Speaker 2: I never did. For electric fence though once.
23:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, chucked, ye, that'll make your teeth clad. Holy fuck, dude,
23:57
Speaker 1: it's letting go. That's hard.
23:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, disturbing video. Okay, Oh the sound on it. I
24:07
Speaker 2: mean I was yelling Oky put her earphones on over
24:10
Speaker 2: hear the songs the taser.
24:14
Speaker 1: Oh okay, hold on, man, back up, back up.
24:19
Speaker 2: What was he reaching for in the ground? Is that
24:21
Speaker 2: the girl? The woman shoots him taser? I think, okay,
24:30
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I can't tell that was Okay, that's crazy.
24:40
Speaker 2: That does not look justified. That looks like they had
24:42
Speaker 2: control of them, unless he had a knife and was
24:45
Speaker 2: stabbing people. But even if he was stabbing something like,
24:49
Speaker 2: how much control do they have on him before she
24:51
Speaker 2: starts shooting him?
24:53
Speaker 1: Was it that shot him?
24:55
Speaker 2: Yes? Look see she backs away. Watch they tase him
25:01
Speaker 2: to get him to the ground, and she shoots him.
25:02
Speaker 2: Why they've got him down on the ground, female cops. Yeah,
25:07
Speaker 2: that's not good. That's crazy. I again, I don't know
25:15
Speaker 2: what happened. I don't know if he stabbed one of them.
25:17
Speaker 2: I really did have a knife. One stab at him,
25:19
Speaker 2: But it seems like they had him restrained. But that
25:23
Speaker 2: lady stands back and extends her arms.
25:25
Speaker 1: With a Oh, it's the guy shoots him?
25:31
Speaker 2: I think had she's shooting him with a taser. Oh,
25:36
Speaker 2: let me see that again.
25:39
Speaker 5: What?
25:45
Speaker 2: God, it's hard to tell it. So it's the guy
25:47
Speaker 2: in the back.
25:48
Speaker 1: I think it's the guy in the front. So if
25:50
Speaker 1: he the dude in the back, you see the guy
25:52
Speaker 1: right next to Yeah, that guy, that guy shoots him.
25:54
Speaker 1: It looks like it. I'm not sure that's really close
25:56
Speaker 1: to God, they seems like the second the shots stop,
26:01
Speaker 1: he puts his hand his gun back. Makes me think
26:04
Speaker 1: maybe it was him.
26:05
Speaker 2: Yes, fuck, man, that does not look good. That's not
26:15
Speaker 2: a good one.
26:16
Speaker 1: No, no, no, doesn't look great. No, that means you
26:21
Speaker 1: have to give us your hot take. Now, Joe, that's
26:24
Speaker 1: my hot take.
26:26
Speaker 2: I need to know, Like, did he actually stab one
26:28
Speaker 2: of them during a press conference?
26:31
Speaker 1: Uh.
26:32
Speaker 3: Two of the cops were injured in the altercation. Police
26:35
Speaker 3: said the suspect allegedly pulled out a fixed blade knife,
26:38
Speaker 3: to which an officer pulled out a taser. Same officer
26:41
Speaker 3: shot him with a gun.
26:43
Speaker 2: Okay, that's different. So if he really pulled out a
26:47
Speaker 2: knife and was trying to stab them, and then they
26:49
Speaker 2: had him on the ground and they couldn't totally get
26:51
Speaker 2: control of him, and that guy just decides he stabbed me,
26:53
Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot him, that's a different thing.
26:56
Speaker 1: I agree, that's different. Also, he didn't have the front view.
27:01
Speaker 1: We see the view from the back. It's very blurry.
27:04
Speaker 2: The whole thing. We didn't even know who shot. We
27:05
Speaker 2: thought the lady shot him. It's hard to tell what
27:07
Speaker 2: the fuck is going on. You can't even tell if
27:09
Speaker 2: it's a taser or a gun in her hand.
27:10
Speaker 1: It's that blurry.
27:11
Speaker 2: But if he stabbed them and he's got a knife,
27:14
Speaker 2: that's a different thing. Right, The whole thing is fucked though,
27:18
Speaker 2: Like that is the last thing American needs right now.
27:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean you don't want another riot season.
27:25
Speaker 2: I mean I wonder if people would go right into
27:28
Speaker 2: it the way they did before without USA's.
27:34
Speaker 4: Here's what a witness.
27:36
Speaker 2: The witness came flying around on his bicycle. One officer
27:39
Speaker 2: tackled him. Two other officers kind of rushed over. One
27:42
Speaker 2: of the officers yells he has a knife. One of
27:45
Speaker 2: the officers then draws a taser and yells taser, Taser, Taser.
27:48
Speaker 2: He tasers him. So it says he tasers him, But
27:52
Speaker 2: wasn't that the woman.
27:54
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that she actually tasered him or she
27:56
Speaker 1: just had her weapon.
27:57
Speaker 2: She might have just had her weapon out. He tases him,
28:00
Speaker 2: and the victim falls to the ground. The three continue
28:04
Speaker 2: to struggle for a second or two. Then one of
28:06
Speaker 2: the officers stands just a couple of feet above his head,
28:09
Speaker 2: shooting the okay.
28:11
Speaker 1: Three times, three times to the head. Holy fuck, it
28:14
Speaker 1: did look like he was the shooter. Okay, so that's
28:18
Speaker 1: what we saw. Yeah, And the thing the tell for
28:21
Speaker 1: that was, as soon as he was done, he put
28:25
Speaker 1: cops weren't doing this.
28:26
Speaker 3: Additional video that has been not been circulated online that's
28:29
Speaker 3: being reviewed.
28:30
Speaker 2: Oh why don't they have body cameras?
28:33
Speaker 3: And that's what I mean, that's probably part of the
28:35
Speaker 3: whole protest was that their cameras were not on so
28:38
Speaker 3: or if they didn't have them, I don't know.
28:40
Speaker 2: Did they let's find that out. Did they not have
28:42
Speaker 2: them or were they not on?
28:44
Speaker 3: Lack of body cameras. None of the officers involved were
28:47
Speaker 3: wearing body cameras.
28:49
Speaker 1: Hmmm, so none of them? That's are they supposed to? Yeah,
28:53
Speaker 1: that might may not be part of the organs.
28:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know about the city Madison.
28:57
Speaker 1: How about fix that?
28:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fix that.
29:01
Speaker 1: You know, cops often are the ones who suggest that, Yeah,
29:04
Speaker 1: for their own safety, they say that they want to
29:06
Speaker 1: wear body cams.
29:07
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of crazy bodycam footage where a
29:11
Speaker 2: guy is pulling someone over and they're just having a
29:13
Speaker 2: casual conversation. Also the guy pulls a gun out and
29:15
Speaker 2: starts shooting them. Yep, I've seen a bunch of those tons.
29:18
Speaker 1: These Actually, the routine traffic stops happens constantly.
29:21
Speaker 2: You have to always think, like if you're in an
29:24
Speaker 2: altercation with a cop. These people are always worried that
29:28
Speaker 2: this is where their life is going to end. They're
29:30
Speaker 2: always worried that they're gonna get shot. They're they've seen
29:33
Speaker 2: those videos too. So if you start ship with a
29:36
Speaker 2: cop and he freaks out and goes the wrong direction, like,
29:40
Speaker 2: you're probably dealing with a guy who's got some serious PTSD.
29:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's seen it before, or his buddy's gotten gotten plugged, right,
29:48
Speaker 1: they've all seen it. Yeah.
29:49
Speaker 2: I have a friend who UH spent a lot of
29:51
Speaker 2: times overseas uh deployed and he's in combat and he
29:55
Speaker 2: said he saw way more as an Austin cop, like,
29:58
Speaker 2: way more fucked up things and all the time, Whereas
30:02
Speaker 2: you know, you're not in war all the time, you know,
30:04
Speaker 2: in firefights all the time. He was like, it's like
30:06
Speaker 2: every day, every day you're seeing something fucked up that
30:08
Speaker 2: you cannot say.
30:09
Speaker 1: And you see it with kids. Yeah, things you got
30:11
Speaker 1: to deal with with kids. Things I got to deal
30:13
Speaker 1: with with all sorts of things. And it's like, that
30:16
Speaker 1: is not a fun job and I would not want
30:18
Speaker 1: it at all. So I always do tend to cut
30:21
Speaker 1: law enforcement quite a bit of grace until I hear
30:24
Speaker 1: what their side of things are, because that is a
30:28
Speaker 1: that is a brutal job. To have. I buddy minds
30:30
Speaker 1: a deputy share of and I talk with him. He's
30:33
Speaker 1: pleasing a small area and he's like, it's the stuff
30:36
Speaker 1: with the kids. It gets him. Yeah, exactly, He's like,
30:39
Speaker 1: that's the stuff he'll get. You know. Go into a
30:42
Speaker 1: junkies house. There's a two year old there hasn't eaten
30:45
Speaker 1: in four days. You know, he's like, that's the stuff
30:49
Speaker 1: that really you know, he's I gotta rather shoot a
30:52
Speaker 1: person than that, which kind of makes sense to me, right,
30:57
Speaker 1: Like I would do. I probably would too.
31:00
Speaker 2: When you think about who should be allowed to have kids,
31:04
Speaker 2: who should be like that's what's really crazy about freedom
31:08
Speaker 2: is that any two crackheads with no money at all,
31:13
Speaker 2: just on the side of the road and he can
31:15
Speaker 2: nut inside of her and that creates a life, and
31:18
Speaker 2: that life they're responsible for. And they're smoking crack and
31:21
Speaker 2: drinking ever Clear and they have a baby grown inside
31:24
Speaker 2: their body and no one can do anything about it.
31:26
Speaker 2: It's like there's no protection for that baby, there's no nothing.
31:30
Speaker 2: And then if that baby is born, if it does live,
31:33
Speaker 2: like you know, do you talk to people that have
31:36
Speaker 2: actually like been in the delivery room with crack babies
31:40
Speaker 2: it's like, oh my god, man, the horror story is
31:43
Speaker 2: about a child addicted to drugs coming out of the womb,
31:46
Speaker 2: addicted to drugs, yeah, and detoxing, heavily addicted, heavily addicted. Yeah,
31:52
Speaker 2: so hard, foolish, It's so twisted. It's like people can
31:56
Speaker 2: be so awesome and so shit at the same time,
32:00
Speaker 2: coexisting on the same patch of dirt, and no one
32:05
Speaker 2: devises a legitimate strategy for mitigating the amount of people
32:09
Speaker 2: that suck and the problems with.
32:13
Speaker 1: Can it Can it even be done?
32:14
Speaker 2: I don't know, not with freedom. I mean, this is
32:17
Speaker 2: the flock camera question. You know, do you want Big
32:21
Speaker 2: Brother looking at your license plate everywhere you go? Well,
32:24
Speaker 2: listen if someone shoots up like this is an argument
32:26
Speaker 2: that Mark Andresen made on this podcast when he had
32:29
Speaker 2: come here. Right after he right before he had come here,
32:33
Speaker 2: there was a shooting in Austin where some kids just
32:36
Speaker 2: randomly started shooting at people and then they couldn't find
32:40
Speaker 2: them in Austin. But as soon as they left Austin
32:43
Speaker 2: city limits, they went into an area that had flock
32:45
Speaker 2: cameras and they got them like that. So this was
32:48
Speaker 2: his argument for the benefits of flock cameras, But I
32:52
Speaker 2: do you believe he invests in flock camera But sure?
32:54
Speaker 1: I mean, but you can make that argument with CCTV
32:56
Speaker 1: as well. You can make that argument with everyone wear
32:58
Speaker 1: a chip, everyone wear body care. The thing is is
33:01
Speaker 1: you have to be cautious with the idea of the
33:03
Speaker 1: nanny state for another reason besides just protecting people's independent privacy.
33:07
Speaker 1: It's because those things often become money wells for people
33:12
Speaker 1: to steal from the public trough. Oh yeah, and that
33:16
Speaker 1: is the major issue. Right. So some of the reasons
33:20
Speaker 1: I tend, even though I'm on the paleo Christian side,
33:23
Speaker 1: to lean towards a lot of the freedom elements over
33:26
Speaker 1: then is because of the corruption. The corruption which happens
33:30
Speaker 1: oftentimes when you try to curtail too much, right, that
33:33
Speaker 1: in and of itself creates a system, and that system
33:36
Speaker 1: becomes ripe for corruption. Let me give you an example, flockcams.
33:40
Speaker 1: Who were awarding the contracts to right, and who's going
33:42
Speaker 1: to be servicing those contracts, Who's going to be doing
33:45
Speaker 1: these things?
33:46
Speaker 2: Right?
33:46
Speaker 1: That's where you start to see with new systems, there
33:50
Speaker 1: becomes new corruption. So it has to be a way
33:52
Speaker 1: to curtain But there's some things that are pretty obvious
33:55
Speaker 1: that you could curtail and who cares if people bitch
33:57
Speaker 1: about it? Like let's take online prostitute for instance. Okay, great,
34:02
Speaker 1: it's illegal to do only fans. Let's say, how the
34:06
Speaker 1: hell could that possibly be bad for Sussa? Like, what
34:08
Speaker 1: is that? What is that going to do? That's just, oh,
34:11
Speaker 1: we gotta have that, though, Andrew got it, we gotta
34:14
Speaker 1: have that. It's like I don't think we do. I
34:16
Speaker 1: don't think it's necessary. And if we got rid of it, like,
34:19
Speaker 1: who cares? You know, it seems like it would just
34:21
Speaker 1: be a massive net positive for every human being if
34:24
Speaker 1: that was just done away with altogether. And it's like
34:29
Speaker 1: what the systems that come in too, though, for policing
34:33
Speaker 1: it are prone to corruption, so you got to be
34:35
Speaker 1: cautious about it, right, right, you gotta be cautious about it. Also,
34:39
Speaker 1: I just.
34:39
Speaker 2: Don't like people telling people what to do, even if
34:42
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be doing it.
34:43
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I mean to an extent though, right,
34:46
Speaker 1: Like if they're heroin addicts, you're gonna be like, nah.
34:48
Speaker 2: Well even that, Like I don't think you should be
34:52
Speaker 2: a heroin addict, but I don't think I should be
34:54
Speaker 2: the one to tell you not to do heroin. I
34:56
Speaker 2: don't because I think that's a slippery slope. And then
34:59
Speaker 2: it's don't smoke cigarettes, and then it's because cigarettes are
35:02
Speaker 2: killing you, and then it's don't drink whiskey because you
35:04
Speaker 2: could be a drunk driver and kill a family of five. Like,
35:07
Speaker 2: it's all the same shit.
35:08
Speaker 1: It's like, but do you think that all those have
35:10
Speaker 1: kind of the same impact on society? Ultimately?
35:13
Speaker 2: Well, the heroin thing is a weird one because.
35:18
Speaker 1: Because like the argument I make would be like the
35:20
Speaker 1: incest argument. It'd be like, look, that's outlawed for a
35:24
Speaker 1: good reason. But what if you have two people are
35:26
Speaker 1: totally sterile, like they can't have kids, right, what's the
35:32
Speaker 1: moral argument that can be made? And the people are like, well, there,
35:35
Speaker 1: I can't really make them all gross. It's just gross. Yeah, yeah,
35:40
Speaker 1: what are you doing? It's just gross? And it's like, well,
35:42
Speaker 1: but can we legislate off of it's just gross? And
35:46
Speaker 1: the kind of the libertarian mindset is no, we can't,
35:49
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, we can. I'm okay with that,
35:51
Speaker 1: Like I'm okay about I remember talking debating what they
35:54
Speaker 1: would do bout this up? What would you do?
35:56
Speaker 2: Would you arrest some guy and his sister if you
35:59
Speaker 2: found out they were on each other?
36:00
Speaker 1: Might not arrest them? Might not?
36:02
Speaker 2: Like?
36:02
Speaker 1: How would that? How would deterring that society wide? Ever
36:07
Speaker 1: be a bad idea?
36:09
Speaker 2: I don't think it is. However, it's technically a victimless crime,
36:14
Speaker 2: especially under the circumstances that you described, whereas they're both
36:17
Speaker 2: both sterile. I do not think you should be able
36:19
Speaker 2: to do that. But well, I don't think you should
36:23
Speaker 2: do that. I should say, but in the case of
36:25
Speaker 2: Circe and what's his face? Was the other dude's name
36:29
Speaker 2: in Game Thrones?
36:30
Speaker 1: The brother in system?
36:31
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it really seems like they were in love. Dude.
36:36
Speaker 1: They had like interest babies, right, who went on rural
36:38
Speaker 1: kingdoms and they were all like Jeoffrey. Jeffrey probably didn't
36:42
Speaker 1: want the interest baby in charge of the kingdom.
36:45
Speaker 2: Didn't the other incest baby was in charge of the kingdom.
36:48
Speaker 2: He jumped off the roof.
36:49
Speaker 1: True, wasn't John Snow technically doing incest as well? With
36:53
Speaker 1: the Queen of Dragons?
36:54
Speaker 2: Like they're related, they're in the basket. They were, They
36:59
Speaker 2: were pretty right something.
37:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot of or something in the thrones.
37:04
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. But the other argument there that's interesting
37:07
Speaker 1: is it's like, okay, that's, you know, fair enough, it's
37:10
Speaker 1: a victimless crime, but you just kind of extend that like, Okay,
37:13
Speaker 1: well then why can't a guy have five wives? Why
37:15
Speaker 1: can't you have twenty? Why can't twenty gay men all
37:18
Speaker 1: get married and adopt one child? And victimless crime? Yeah,
37:22
Speaker 1: it's like, so doesn't the slippery slope kind of go
37:24
Speaker 1: the other way a little bit too?
37:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, it does go the other way. And
37:28
Speaker 2: the multiple wives thing. Didn't they just pass something like
37:33
Speaker 2: that in Toronto? Wasn't that an Ontario were they're allowing
37:36
Speaker 2: polygamy now because they have so many Islamic people living
37:40
Speaker 2: there that think that you should be allowed to have.
37:42
Speaker 1: Well remember there's big pushes for that in Utah because
37:45
Speaker 1: of the population.
37:47
Speaker 2: Well you know that's why I met Romney's family moved
37:49
Speaker 2: to Mexico.
37:50
Speaker 1: Really. Oh yeah, it was due to multiple wives. I
37:53
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was due to the multiple wives.
37:55
Speaker 2: Well, not specifically, but that sect of Mormonism fled the
37:59
Speaker 2: United States when they pass polygamy laws, and I think
38:03
Speaker 2: there was probably just a broader crackdown on this perceived
38:06
Speaker 2: new cult. They thought of it as a cult. Now
38:09
Speaker 2: it's established religion of really nice people that knock on
38:11
Speaker 2: your door.
38:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I must, I must admit. I have debated many
38:15
Speaker 1: Mormons and they're just the nicest, nicest, nicest people. It's
38:19
Speaker 1: the best cat And it makes me like it's upsetting
38:22
Speaker 1: because I'm like, look, I'm about to expose that your
38:25
Speaker 1: profit was totally fake, and you know, I'm trying to
38:28
Speaker 1: get people into the debate and they just end up
38:30
Speaker 1: being like the nicest people, and I go, ah, man.
38:33
Speaker 2: So, having multiple wives or spouses is illegal in Canada
38:36
Speaker 2: under section two nine three polygamy and section two nine
38:40
Speaker 2: zero bigamy. What is bigamy?
38:43
Speaker 1: Uh? Isn't that? Is that? The other way is bigamy?
38:46
Speaker 1: The other way polygamy is the man with multiple What
38:50
Speaker 1: do you know what it is?
38:50
Speaker 2: Jamie? Do you know who bigamy is? Ever heard of it?
38:54
Speaker 2: I don't even think I've ever seen that written. The
38:57
Speaker 2: act of marrying one person while still legally married. Oh okay,
39:01
Speaker 2: oh a bigamist, right, duh? But Gus was married.
39:09
Speaker 3: Four people at once in somewhere another recently, like this
39:11
Speaker 3: year in America, in Canada.
39:14
Speaker 2: Canada, he was married to four women at once marriage.
39:17
Speaker 3: So he got multiple marriage licenses and should not have
39:19
Speaker 3: been given them or something.
39:20
Speaker 2: Oh well, he doesn't look Muslim. That guy looks like
39:25
Speaker 2: he's just a regular Christian guy.
39:27
Speaker 3: Guy.
39:27
Speaker 1: Oh well, he does look Muslim.
39:29
Speaker 4: But I don't know if it has anything.
39:30
Speaker 1: He might not be though, he might just be a baller.
39:32
Speaker 1: He could be a Muslim.
39:35
Speaker 2: Go back to that case in Canada, though, isn't there
39:37
Speaker 2: something where they're trying to pass it in Toronto?
39:40
Speaker 4: I don't think I typed in Toronto multiple lives.
39:43
Speaker 2: No Toronto, Ontario polygamy. I think they were trying to
39:49
Speaker 2: pass something.
39:50
Speaker 3: I mean, that's why I went the news to see something,
39:52
Speaker 3: you know that was it Ottawa.
39:54
Speaker 2: Maybe it was Ottawa. Yeah, Canada polygamy. No new law
40:06
Speaker 2: in Canada legalizing multiple wives.
40:08
Speaker 1: Perhaps proposed law.
40:10
Speaker 2: Yeah well, maybe it is a proposed law. Maybe I
40:13
Speaker 2: just read some horse shit on Twitter, which is very possible.
40:18
Speaker 2: Who I've been off Twitter for a few days.
40:19
Speaker 1: I feel pretty good. Good. It's good down plug from Twitter.
40:24
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every now and then I just go in and
40:26
Speaker 2: I'm like, God, who are they mad at? Now? Oh? God?
40:29
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question.
40:30
Speaker 1: If you went into t X tomorrow, let's say, and
40:34
Speaker 1: there was an option there where you could select it,
40:37
Speaker 1: and it's like US accounts only that's all you could see.
40:40
Speaker 1: Do you think that ninety percent of the traffic for
40:43
Speaker 1: people would go away? A giant percentage, huge percentage is.
40:47
Speaker 2: People being manipulated into arguments. It is a strate foreign
40:51
Speaker 2: assets by foreign assets. It is a strategy. Is real.
40:54
Speaker 2: This is not tenfoil hot shit. We brought this up
40:57
Speaker 2: multiple times on the podcast, but I'll bring it up
40:59
Speaker 2: again just for the this. There was an FBI analyst
41:02
Speaker 2: who took a look at Twitter when Elon was buying it,
41:05
Speaker 2: and he estimated that eighty percent of the traffic is bots.
41:10
Speaker 1: This doesn't surprise me. Remember YouTube did an internal audit,
41:14
Speaker 1: and when they did their internal audit, this was a
41:16
Speaker 1: few years back and when Susan still ran it, I
41:19
Speaker 1: believe they did an internal audit and found out that
41:22
Speaker 1: most of the people that they on YouTuber bots and
41:25
Speaker 1: they did a great purge. Wow. Right, that's where that
41:28
Speaker 1: whole debt internet theory and all that, and they started
41:30
Speaker 1: to pick up traction was that hey, look a lot
41:33
Speaker 1: of this stuff is bots, foreign accounts people who are
41:37
Speaker 1: manipulating US elections. They're manipulating various US interests, and this
41:45
Speaker 1: is happening all over the place right now. You have
41:49
Speaker 1: progressives who are funded by Act Blue. Right, and I've
41:53
Speaker 1: proven this, We traced all their money. It's progressives funded
41:57
Speaker 1: by Act Blue who are pushing the same narrative that
42:01
Speaker 1: like Candae Sowans and others are pushing on the idea
42:04
Speaker 1: of Charlie Kirk's death and the conspiracy around that.
42:07
Speaker 2: So you have absolutely being paid to push this.
42:11
Speaker 1: Well, their state admission, this particular progressive group, their state
42:15
Speaker 1: admission was to take down TPUSA. I'll tell you his story.
42:18
Speaker 1: This is the tale of old tales.
42:20
Speaker 2: Okay.
42:21
Speaker 1: So Charlie Kirk has this huge outreach program that's happening
42:26
Speaker 1: through TPUSA on these college campuses. He's got viral clip
42:29
Speaker 1: after viral clip after viral clip. They are going wild.
42:33
Speaker 1: He's going campus to campus, he's doing his thing. He's
42:37
Speaker 1: being dogged by a progressive organization. This progressive organization shows
42:41
Speaker 1: up at almost all of these TPUSA events with the
42:44
Speaker 1: stated mission of trying to create a counter movement to
42:48
Speaker 1: what TPUSA is doing. Now, the woman who heads this
42:52
Speaker 1: particular organization received millions of dollars from Act Blue and
42:57
Speaker 1: other progressive organizations for this stated mission. That same woman,
43:01
Speaker 1: right this second, works with other op X accounts to
43:05
Speaker 1: push the messaging that Charlie Kirk was assassinated by his
43:09
Speaker 1: own TPUSA insiders in order to push that narrative forward,
43:13
Speaker 1: because the stated goal still from that organization is to
43:16
Speaker 1: destroy TPUSA.
43:18
Speaker 2: So they've how do we know that they've done this?
43:21
Speaker 2: Are there emails that have been found?
43:23
Speaker 1: Like kind of the stated goal of this particular person
43:27
Speaker 1: is to take down is to take down TPUSA. It's
43:30
Speaker 1: very open about that. And then the way that you
43:32
Speaker 1: know that they are talking to these other accounts is
43:35
Speaker 1: because they do it publicly. Those public accounts will talk
43:39
Speaker 1: to this account right very openly. They reaffirm each other's posts.
43:44
Speaker 1: They say, wow, that's real interesting this kind of thing,
43:47
Speaker 1: all affirming that same conspiracy that TPUSA was the ones
43:53
Speaker 1: who actually set up and murdered Charlie Kirk, and at
43:57
Speaker 1: millions of dollars and Act Blue funding going towards this
44:02
Speaker 1: no joke. Anybody can look can look it up right now.
44:05
Speaker 1: The organization's called un fuck America.
44:08
Speaker 2: So how do they think that his organization did this,
44:13
Speaker 2: that they convinced Tyler Robinson to do it, or the
44:16
Speaker 2: they don't someone else.
44:17
Speaker 1: Don't think that the Progressive Organization does believe that TPUSA
44:21
Speaker 1: did this. I think that what they want to do.
44:24
Speaker 2: Oh no, I understand that, but I mean, what are
44:26
Speaker 2: they trying to say?
44:27
Speaker 1: Oh, well, here's what the theory is. So take Ian
44:31
Speaker 1: Carroll within twenty four hours after Kirk's death blames Israel.
44:35
Speaker 1: Within twenty four hours he says, Israel killed Kirk. That
44:39
Speaker 1: was his tweet with megaviral. What the conspiracy is on
44:43
Speaker 1: that side is that Israel, along with Erica Kirk and
44:47
Speaker 1: TPUSA insiders got together with elements of the US government
44:53
Speaker 1: to murder Charlie Kirk because he was going to leave
44:56
Speaker 1: the quote pro Israel, cause that's what theory is, right,
45:01
Speaker 1: and that he was either murdered some of them say
45:04
Speaker 1: with a microphone exploding. Some of them say with au
45:08
Speaker 1: you think there was a second shooter, and Robinson's and
45:11
Speaker 1: Patsy It all depends on which theorist you're talking to,
45:14
Speaker 1: but they all work together in the same unison from
45:17
Speaker 1: a single camp, which is interesting. Well, a lot of
45:21
Speaker 1: people had.
45:23
Speaker 2: Takes on the shooting and the microphone one was the
45:27
Speaker 2: weirdest one to me. It's weird because there's no like, yeah,
45:32
Speaker 2: the shirt is moving, but also a bullet is going
45:36
Speaker 2: like how many feet per second whizzing through the air,
45:39
Speaker 2: like do you understand? Yeah, where people are to go?
45:42
Speaker 2: People don't understand that.
45:43
Speaker 1: You know. What got me though? So I went back
45:46
Speaker 1: and look because they say that it's the same explosive
45:48
Speaker 1: which was used inside the Israeli pagers. Now that was
45:50
Speaker 1: very real Israel these pages that would be an explosion.
45:54
Speaker 2: That's my take. My point is like there's no indication
45:58
Speaker 2: that there's an ignition.
45:59
Speaker 1: There's worse, there's no smoke. Right, there's now all the
46:02
Speaker 1: Israeli if you pull up, if you pulled up right now,
46:05
Speaker 1: one of these Israeli pagers going because there's tons of
46:07
Speaker 1: videos of them.
46:08
Speaker 2: Oh really, let's yeah, let me see something is really
46:09
Speaker 2: you're off?
46:11
Speaker 1: There's smoke.
46:12
Speaker 2: Is there a dude like where it's on his hip?
46:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, yep, there's one where it's on his
46:16
Speaker 1: hip and gets him and you can see the cloud
46:19
Speaker 1: of smoke coming off because of this specific type of ignition.
46:22
Speaker 2: Right, but is it possible that this pager thing is
46:25
Speaker 2: different than whatever they think this microphone thing is. This
46:28
Speaker 2: microphone thing has some sort of a different kind of propellant. Now,
46:31
Speaker 2: then again, you you'd have to like, okay, let's let's
46:34
Speaker 2: imagine what kind of propellant exists, right, compressed air. There's
46:38
Speaker 2: not enough room in that microphone to get enough compressed
46:42
Speaker 2: air to blow a hole in your neck and kill
46:44
Speaker 2: you instantly. Well, they claim that it's unless it's something else.
46:47
Speaker 1: It's this what is it? Petn explosive? This is the
46:51
Speaker 1: particular type that had to be used for the size
46:53
Speaker 1: of the microphone. But you have another problem that Mike's
46:55
Speaker 1: on the wrong side of where the wound is. Right.
46:58
Speaker 1: The other is there's no burn marks, there no smoke,
47:00
Speaker 1: there's nothing. There's like, there's nothing to confirm this theory
47:03
Speaker 1: at all.
47:03
Speaker 2: You'd have to guess where that mic is because he's
47:06
Speaker 2: moving around too. You have to guess where that mic
47:08
Speaker 2: is pointed. You could take someone out. Two videos.
47:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one's greaty one that goes all this happens again.
47:14
Speaker 1: Here watch the smoke. See all that smoke.
47:19
Speaker 2: Let me see that again. Watch it was just chilling
47:22
Speaker 2: and boom, Look at all that bloom. Up in his
47:24
Speaker 2: bag though.
47:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a lot of them, like they didn't die.
47:28
Speaker 3: They go to the hospital and they're just like.
47:29
Speaker 2: You know, hurt, probably because they had it in their
47:31
Speaker 2: bag or so.
47:32
Speaker 3: I found a couple one other video here.
47:34
Speaker 2: But these guys are going to be carrying around like
47:35
Speaker 2: armored satchels.
47:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could, like a couple of them were on
47:39
Speaker 3: bikes and stuff when it happened.
47:43
Speaker 1: That guy got fucked up. Yeah, he got messed up
47:45
Speaker 1: real bad. Or they give you the illusion they did
47:47
Speaker 1: by blurring out his head.
47:49
Speaker 4: That's the other part.
47:49
Speaker 3: I mean, not that these are fake, but yes, it's
47:51
Speaker 3: only eleven were killed by the pager.
47:53
Speaker 1: It's still pretty slick. That was extremely extreme.
47:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean crazy they sent off to them
48:00
Speaker 2: years ago.
48:01
Speaker 1: That's some CIA shit, man, Like that's deep massad shit. Yeah,
48:05
Speaker 1: that's crazy.
48:05
Speaker 2: That's probably where the CIA learned it. But that's an explosion, right,
48:09
Speaker 2: and yeah, you see smoke. But is there some kind
48:11
Speaker 2: of a propellant that would be lethal from a short
48:14
Speaker 2: distance with some sort of a projectile. It's possible, but
48:17
Speaker 2: it would also like have to be like, how are
48:19
Speaker 2: you aiming it?
48:19
Speaker 1: You're not even aiming it.
48:21
Speaker 2: It's sitting up here, right, So if it's sitting here
48:23
Speaker 2: and he's doing all this and moving around like, it
48:26
Speaker 2: might take his zer off. It might zib whizz to
48:29
Speaker 2: the side and shoot somebody else if he leans over. Sure,
48:32
Speaker 2: unless they planned exactly when it's going to go off
48:35
Speaker 2: and it's pointing towards his neck like which, Yeah, it
48:38
Speaker 2: seems like a gunshot wound. It's just hard to imagine
48:42
Speaker 2: that it's a thirty odd to six. That's my issue
48:44
Speaker 2: with it. I look at it, and you know, I've
48:47
Speaker 2: seen takes from guys that are gun experts, and they
48:51
Speaker 2: they have a problem with it too. The thing about guns, though,
48:55
Speaker 2: is weird stuff happens when you shoot bones, Like it
49:00
Speaker 2: is possible that you wouldn't get a pass through depending
49:04
Speaker 2: on how it squared the spinal column, depending on how
49:08
Speaker 2: it hit, and depending on what kind of bullet it is.
49:11
Speaker 1: I forget that these are one hundred and fifty core
49:13
Speaker 1: locks hot tips, that's right, and they're soft tip, right,
49:16
Speaker 1: so they only have enough of a jacket to keep
49:19
Speaker 1: the bullet together. Right.
49:20
Speaker 2: The idea is that expands inside the body, causing massive trauma.
49:24
Speaker 1: Right, which is why I use them for hunting and
49:26
Speaker 1: probably you have to.
49:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I haven't used that particular round. It just
49:32
Speaker 2: seems like it's a lot of fucking a lot of
49:36
Speaker 2: energy coming towards your neck. It's hard to believe that
49:39
Speaker 2: it wouldn't blow a hole through the neck and leave
49:42
Speaker 2: a big fucking just take a chunk out, that it
49:45
Speaker 2: would just make a round hole. But that's beside the point.
49:49
Speaker 2: You know, there's other weird stuff with like the video.
49:54
Speaker 2: I don't like there's a lot of people saying that
49:58
Speaker 2: the video is super clear. They're seeing four K footage.
50:04
Speaker 2: It's clearly Tyler Robinson on the roof.
50:08
Speaker 1: No, it's not Jack Prosobic and Bennie Johnson.
50:10
Speaker 2: That's crazy that they said that that is not clear.
50:14
Speaker 2: That is a blurry figure. You could barely ascertain it.
50:18
Speaker 2: So whether or not there's a recoil when someone takes
50:21
Speaker 2: the shot, So it does seem like the guy on
50:23
Speaker 2: the roof gets in a prone position and it looks
50:26
Speaker 2: like something that might be a rifle. Right, it's blurry
50:29
Speaker 2: as fuck.
50:30
Speaker 1: It also does look like there's kickback on them right level.
50:32
Speaker 2: It looks like there might be some recoil. It's hard,
50:36
Speaker 2: but it's not clear, like for them to say it's
50:38
Speaker 2: crystal clear, it's Tyler Robinson, it's on the roofs.
50:41
Speaker 1: Like, well, it's interesting when when Prosobic came out and
50:44
Speaker 1: said that in Bennie Johnson, there was another guy who
50:46
Speaker 1: was there who I know. His name is Kyle Schwimmer,
50:49
Speaker 1: and Kay put out a tweet he said, look, they
50:51
Speaker 1: might have sensationalized this just a bit, okay, he said,
50:54
Speaker 1: but the video that we did see in the courtroom
50:56
Speaker 1: was actually much clearer. Oh okay, So I DMed him
50:59
Speaker 1: and I DM Jack Prosobic, and I DM Well, I
51:02
Speaker 1: couldn't get ahold of Anny, but I DM Jack Prosobic,
51:05
Speaker 1: and I said, just be straight with me, like, did
51:07
Speaker 1: you did you try to over sensationalize this thing for clicks?
51:11
Speaker 1: Like what's the deal? He said, No, listen, the footage
51:14
Speaker 1: we did see inside the courtroom was actually a lot
51:17
Speaker 1: clearer than anything that the public has seen so far.
51:21
Speaker 1: That's their claim. Kai Swimmer, Now I wouldn't just take
51:24
Speaker 1: Prosobic as a word, but Kai Shwimmer, he's a Mormon,
51:28
Speaker 1: Mormon kid, not very prone to tall tales. In fact,
51:32
Speaker 1: he was the first one that came out and said look,
51:33
Speaker 1: I was there, and you're kind of over sensationalizing it.
51:36
Speaker 1: It is a lot clearer, but it does not showing
51:39
Speaker 1: everything that you're claiming it showing.
51:41
Speaker 3: M M.
51:42
Speaker 2: So it's clearer, but it's not clear enough. It's not
51:45
Speaker 2: like four K close up clearly in his face. The
51:49
Speaker 2: other thing that was weird was the guy in the
51:51
Speaker 2: crowd that jumped up and said I killed him. That's weird.
51:55
Speaker 2: And that guy wasn't he at the Boston bombing it was.
51:59
Speaker 1: So he's a professional agitator who's been at tons and
52:02
Speaker 1: tons of these events. Later he's found I believe with
52:07
Speaker 1: kiddy porn, right. Well, well, also maybe that's the kind
52:12
Speaker 1: of guy. That's the kind of guy though, right, And
52:14
Speaker 1: so he has been at tons of events agitating, and
52:19
Speaker 1: he is well known to law enforcement for doing this.
52:24
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what they're they're stating for him.
52:27
Speaker 1: The if you're looking at this from a broad view,
52:29
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the conspiracy side versus what they
52:32
Speaker 1: call the thet slop side, let's say it makes sense
52:35
Speaker 1: for them to say, hey, wait a second, that's really weird.
52:37
Speaker 1: This guy jumps up and says I did it, right,
52:40
Speaker 1: that makes him he's a patsy distraction something like this
52:43
Speaker 1: until you look into the guy, right, and the guy
52:46
Speaker 1: is a lunatic who's been at many of these events
52:49
Speaker 1: doing crazy stuff like this.
52:51
Speaker 2: That's the thing is both things can be true, like
52:53
Speaker 2: mk ultra is real. Also, that guy might just been
52:56
Speaker 2: a cuckoo's in the crowd who took advantage of a
52:58
Speaker 2: situation because he's literally insane and he's in the kiddie porn.
53:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's no doubt one of the biggest kind
53:05
Speaker 1: of false narratives that comes out of this. And when
53:07
Speaker 1: I do debates, one of the things I'm trying to
53:09
Speaker 1: structure around is like, I know that we're coming in
53:13
Speaker 1: with a narrative, but I need to understand yours and
53:16
Speaker 1: you need to understand mine so we can get somewhere
53:18
Speaker 1: towards what the truth is here, right, Because you're going
53:21
Speaker 1: to have a frame of which you're viewing the world
53:22
Speaker 1: a worldview, and so am I, and so everybody has
53:26
Speaker 1: a worldview. We have to figure each other's out to
53:28
Speaker 1: get somewhere here with this. One of the most disturbing
53:32
Speaker 1: aspects of it is the people who promote this actually
53:36
Speaker 1: don't want their worldview or their positions to be examined.
53:40
Speaker 1: They only want to examine the evidence from the state.
53:42
Speaker 1: It just like that would be fine. I think if
53:45
Speaker 1: it was the case that you made no claims past that,
53:48
Speaker 1: So if you just only say, hey, you know, I'm
53:50
Speaker 1: not really sure what happened, and I want to really
53:52
Speaker 1: kind of review the evidence, and that's that. I don't
53:55
Speaker 1: really have a problem with that. I think that that's
53:56
Speaker 1: probably healthy. The issue that I've run into is when
53:59
Speaker 1: people make claims past that, oh it was an exploding
54:02
Speaker 1: you know, exploding mic. It was two different shooters, it
54:06
Speaker 1: was a folding rifle, it was a In fact, thirty
54:09
Speaker 1: odd six couldn't do this, even though the US Army,
54:11
Speaker 1: remember the thirty odd six used in the M one
54:14
Speaker 1: Grand was used in World War Two, and then it
54:17
Speaker 1: was used in Korea. Before that, we had the three
54:19
Speaker 1: springfield was used heavily in World War One, world War two,
54:22
Speaker 1: and again in Korea. The US Army has studied thirty
54:26
Speaker 1: odd six entry wounds in depth and produced many manuals
54:30
Speaker 1: on it, explaining how cavitation works with thirty odd six
54:34
Speaker 1: and that the bullet doesn't always penetrate and that's with
54:36
Speaker 1: full metal jacket rounds that are designed for maximum penetration
54:40
Speaker 1: N one hundred and fifty graind core locked coming out
54:42
Speaker 1: of an antique rifle. Essentially, it could easily split up
54:47
Speaker 1: very quickly, and that's why they ended up pulling fragments
54:50
Speaker 1: out of Charlie. It wouldn't surprise me if when we
54:54
Speaker 1: have all the data from the corner report that he
54:56
Speaker 1: has tons of shards all throughout his chest, all throughout
55:00
Speaker 1: his entire because they were saying that there's trauma inside
55:04
Speaker 1: the chest, which would make sense if the bullets split
55:06
Speaker 1: up here, right, it would create all sorts of fragments
55:09
Speaker 1: down in the chest.
55:11
Speaker 2: Right. That is an important distinction about the type of.
55:13
Speaker 1: Bullet, huge distinction the FMJ, especially because that's what the
55:20
Speaker 1: Army is using is FMJ Paul ammunition. It's cheap to produce, right,
55:24
Speaker 1: so they're using it in all these different wars and
55:26
Speaker 1: the amount of people shot with that caliber between World
55:30
Speaker 1: War One two in Korea. As astronomy, they mean he
55:32
Speaker 1: used the thirty out to six in Vietnam in limited capacity,
55:35
Speaker 1: especially the three Springfield. It was still in surface by
55:37
Speaker 1: special forces. So the question becomes like the US Army
55:42
Speaker 1: has studied this in depth, and I went back and
55:44
Speaker 1: I pulled all their manuals and I even put them out,
55:47
Speaker 1: And several people have done the exact same thing and
55:49
Speaker 1: put them out explaining how cavitation works. And they're saying, look,
55:53
Speaker 1: the energy dissipation. The second it hits a human body,
55:57
Speaker 1: it dissipates very very very quickly with the resistance, so
56:01
Speaker 1: it doesn't always go through. Now oftentimes it does with
56:04
Speaker 1: the FMJ, but even then it didn't always go through,
56:08
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's a well studied phenomenon. Another
56:11
Speaker 1: one would be Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King gets
56:14
Speaker 1: hit through the jaw ends up here. Well, if it's
56:17
Speaker 1: just going to blow through all bone, why did it
56:19
Speaker 1: stop in him. Well, it's because the second it has impact,
56:23
Speaker 1: it begins to slow down, and then it impacts something
56:26
Speaker 1: else slows down even more. So it's totally possible that
56:30
Speaker 1: this guy was hit with a thirty odd to six.
56:32
Speaker 1: I don't know why that would be in the realm
56:34
Speaker 1: of impossibility. We have enough data on the AMMO to
56:37
Speaker 1: know that, yeah, it's very possible this happened.
56:42
Speaker 2: It's it is definitely possible. There's a lot of people
56:45
Speaker 2: that think that the sound was not. They think the
56:49
Speaker 2: sound indicated that it was a closer shot than where
56:53
Speaker 2: it was.
56:54
Speaker 1: And I've heard a.
56:55
Speaker 2: Lot of people say, well, there's also an issue with
56:57
Speaker 2: it being supersonic ammo getting two sounds. You're getting a
57:02
Speaker 2: sound of the bullet actually breaking the air, you're also
57:05
Speaker 2: getting the sound of the rifle going off. I don't
57:08
Speaker 2: understand it.
57:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's difficult there when you're making the judgments on
57:13
Speaker 1: the sound because there are people who've run experiments saying
57:17
Speaker 1: right down to the second, this meets up with a
57:19
Speaker 1: shot placement. And then there's people who say, no, there's
57:22
Speaker 1: you know, that experiment's bogus due to the controls for
57:25
Speaker 1: this or that. The problem is is that most of
57:27
Speaker 1: these people don't have any expertise in this arena at all.
57:30
Speaker 1: It just yeappened, and they're just exactly yeah, they're just
57:33
Speaker 1: trying to you know, And I get it, you're trying
57:34
Speaker 1: to figure it out. I understand the Israel thing.
57:38
Speaker 2: There was some text messages back and forth where Charlie
57:42
Speaker 2: was talking about getting out of the Israel business, and
57:45
Speaker 2: there was this position that he had where he did
57:49
Speaker 2: not want us to go to war with Iran. All
57:51
Speaker 2: true and he had a lot of influence. And then
57:55
Speaker 2: there was also that Israel supposedly had offered him a
57:59
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars to be more pro Israel.
58:03
Speaker 1: That is the problem that we've run into is like
58:06
Speaker 1: I've never been able to verify that was the case.
58:09
Speaker 2: Okay, So where does that claim come from?
58:11
Speaker 1: This claim basically comes from this camp without anything that
58:14
Speaker 1: substantiate it.
58:15
Speaker 2: So it's the same people that are pushing this thing
58:16
Speaker 2: a turning point kill.
58:17
Speaker 1: So what's interesting about this is, like it is indeed true.
58:21
Speaker 1: It does appear that Charlie Kirk was extremely pissed off
58:24
Speaker 1: at some of his donors because they were trying to
58:26
Speaker 1: control who he was platforming. They were upset that he
58:29
Speaker 1: had platform Tucker Carlson, they were upset that he had
58:32
Speaker 1: platformed Candace Owens. They were upset and why Well, it's
58:36
Speaker 1: because Tucker Carlson, Candae Owens, they were very anti or
58:39
Speaker 1: at least had somewhat anti Israel message at the time. Carlson,
58:43
Speaker 1: I think a bit more than Candace, or maybe it
58:45
Speaker 1: could be the reverse, but I don't think that that
58:47
Speaker 1: matters too much. The donors were pissed off, many of
58:50
Speaker 1: them were pro Israel, and some of these donors were
58:52
Speaker 1: applying pressure, and so Kirk was lamenting inside of his
58:56
Speaker 1: text messages about this pressure he was experiencing from some
58:59
Speaker 1: of his donors about who he could or couldn't platform,
59:02
Speaker 1: and so as a negotiating piece, he said, well, I'll
59:04
Speaker 1: leave the pro Israeli cause if you're going to try
59:07
Speaker 1: to tell me who I can and can't platform, And
59:09
Speaker 1: that was kind of what his position was. Now, that
59:12
Speaker 1: seems like platforming, I don't know. Even on Twitch politics
59:17
Speaker 1: or YouTube politics with smaller channel, smaller streamers, they argue
59:22
Speaker 1: about platforming all the time, responsible platforming. Is it responsible
59:25
Speaker 1: for you to platform this guy? Is it responsible for
59:28
Speaker 1: you to platform this terrorist? And they're endlessly fighting about it.
59:32
Speaker 1: So this actually doesn't surprise me a bit that these
59:34
Speaker 1: guys are fighting over who you can or can't platform.
59:38
Speaker 1: If you're giving your money to an NGO for the
59:41
Speaker 1: purpose of giving the pro cause, and that NGO is saying,
59:44
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm going to platform people who are
59:46
Speaker 1: against your cause. Of course the donor is going to
59:48
Speaker 1: get pissed. Yeah.
59:49
Speaker 2: The platforming thing, I think is just gatekeeping. If you're
59:54
Speaker 2: upset that someone is having a conversation or a debate
59:57
Speaker 2: with someone that you don't agree with. That the only
1:00:01
Speaker 2: you're supposed to hear that person's perspective, You're SUPs to
1:00:04
Speaker 2: supposed to hear them challenged, You're supposed to hear them,
1:00:07
Speaker 2: allowed to flesh out the full point of view. Yep,
1:00:10
Speaker 2: not like in weird clip form. But go ahead, tell
1:00:14
Speaker 2: me what you really think, and I'm going to tell
1:00:16
Speaker 2: you why I disagree with that. That's healthy. It's supposed
1:00:18
Speaker 2: to be what we do.
1:00:19
Speaker 1: That's you're basically reciting what Kirk's position was, yes.
1:00:23
Speaker 2: And what he was always really good at. Unfortunately, there's
1:00:26
Speaker 2: a few clips. There's the clips thing with Charlie where
1:00:30
Speaker 2: he's saying things and people think it's racist. They're saying
1:00:33
Speaker 2: things and it's like you have to understand the context
1:00:36
Speaker 2: of what he was saying. And I've had conversations with
1:00:38
Speaker 2: black friends who think like he was saying, if I
1:00:40
Speaker 2: see a black pilot on a plane, I get worried,
1:00:43
Speaker 2: is he qualified. The reason why he's saying that is
1:00:48
Speaker 2: because there's specific laws that were designed to hire people
1:00:52
Speaker 2: just based on their race and not on their competency.
1:00:56
Speaker 2: He wasn't saying that black people weren't competent as pilots.
1:00:59
Speaker 2: What he's work is that in the rush to meet
1:01:01
Speaker 2: these quotas, they're gonna hire people who are not competent
1:01:05
Speaker 2: just because they're black. Just like if they wanted to
1:01:09
Speaker 2: hire old white guys, they can hire a bunch of
1:01:11
Speaker 2: old white guys who suck if they just want to
1:01:14
Speaker 2: fill a quota of old white guys. It just happens
1:01:17
Speaker 2: at this particular time when he's talking about black people,
1:01:19
Speaker 2: and it seems like, if you just look at the clip,
1:01:22
Speaker 2: this racist piece of shit doesn't think black people can
1:01:24
Speaker 2: fly a plane. And that's the unfortunate. Think about thinking
1:01:27
Speaker 2: out loud, right, which is what we do. We think
1:01:30
Speaker 2: out loud in public. And when you think out loud
1:01:32
Speaker 2: in public, someone can take what you're saying and take
1:01:35
Speaker 2: a clip of it and completely out out of context.
1:01:38
Speaker 1: It looks bad. It happens to me all the time.
1:01:41
Speaker 2: It happens to me. But I had that conversation with
1:01:43
Speaker 2: people about Charlie, and I'm like, I don't agree with
1:01:46
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk. I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on everything.
1:01:48
Speaker 2: I met him once. He was a very nice guy.
1:01:50
Speaker 2: I met him at a gun range. I met him
1:01:51
Speaker 2: at Taran Tactical in La. It's a place where you
1:01:55
Speaker 2: learn like serious gun shoot. That's where Keanu Reeves learned
1:01:59
Speaker 2: from John Way and a bunch of us.
1:02:01
Speaker 1: Is that where all those videos are from. Where Keanu
1:02:04
Speaker 1: Reeves is going between to three gun and that kind
1:02:07
Speaker 1: of thing, exactly. That's where I met Trelor. He's really
1:02:10
Speaker 1: good at that, by the way.
1:02:11
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he is really good. He's fucking dedicated man.
1:02:15
Speaker 2: When he was practicing, I mean I talked to tarn
1:02:17
Speaker 2: about it when he was practicing for John Wick. I mean,
1:02:19
Speaker 2: he was obsessive. He was obsessive. And you know that
1:02:23
Speaker 2: whole magazine thing he does, the flick. He invented that.
1:02:27
Speaker 2: That's not something that's like a standard thing. Most of
1:02:30
Speaker 2: the time people just hit the release, drop the mag
1:02:32
Speaker 2: pop the new maggot. He decided to do this jazzy
1:02:36
Speaker 2: flick thing, and now people do it all the time.
1:02:38
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. I never put that together. I
1:02:42
Speaker 1: guess I happened to actually seen that before before.
1:02:44
Speaker 2: The way, I think it's him. I think it's the
1:02:46
Speaker 2: Wick flick. I think flick. Yeah, I think Keanu at
1:02:50
Speaker 2: least this this is the people that were.
1:02:52
Speaker 1: Even the way he reloads the shotgun is interesting, the
1:02:55
Speaker 1: way that he will He'll actually hold it up as
1:02:58
Speaker 1: he's going in, and in between a few shots he's
1:03:01
Speaker 1: loading again. It's like and fast. Yeah, that's that's not
1:03:05
Speaker 1: the thing that you usually see in movies. Usually in movies,
1:03:07
Speaker 1: it's like you have way more rounds than you should
1:03:09
Speaker 1: have compensate for how bad the actor is at gun handling.
1:03:13
Speaker 1: For him, it's like the opposite.
1:03:15
Speaker 2: I do that in movies. I'm like, why is he
1:03:16
Speaker 2: shooting still?
1:03:17
Speaker 1: He's out of bullets? Twenty nine shots? He's out a bullets.
1:03:21
Speaker 1: Did you ever see The Walking Dead? Do you've ever
1:03:23
Speaker 1: the famous scene Rehearsal's in the front and he's got
1:03:25
Speaker 1: the pump action shot and it's just unlimited Ammo unlimited AMM.
1:03:29
Speaker 1: I was like, he found solid snakes, unlimited Ammo bandana
1:03:33
Speaker 1: and put it on and he is just I mean,
1:03:35
Speaker 1: a hundred rounds with this pump action shot and it's
1:03:38
Speaker 1: just he just never stops. It's so crazy, and I get,
1:03:41
Speaker 1: you know, I get pissed. I'll be sitting there watching
1:03:43
Speaker 1: it with my wife and I'll be like, when's he
1:03:45
Speaker 1: gonna reload? When's this bullshit.
1:03:47
Speaker 2: Well, the reason why it was so good was Tarran,
1:03:50
Speaker 2: Like tarn is really meticulous and he's a multiple time
1:03:53
Speaker 2: world champion shooter. You know, he does those competitions shoot
1:03:57
Speaker 2: already and he's like super in the spectrum, so he
1:04:01
Speaker 2: fucking just sees things differently. He doesn't miss He's crazy good.
1:04:06
Speaker 1: Charlie was training under him.
1:04:07
Speaker 2: Uh yes, okay, yeah, we were both there at the
1:04:09
Speaker 2: same time. Interesting just randomly ran into him there. Actually anyway,
1:04:14
Speaker 2: very nice guy. And the point is, like people think
1:04:18
Speaker 2: that he was like this mean, shitty conservative, He wasn't mean.
1:04:23
Speaker 2: He was very kind. And the way he would talk
1:04:26
Speaker 2: to people. If you see enough of these not the clips,
1:04:29
Speaker 2: but enough of these conversations with people, it depended entirely
1:04:32
Speaker 2: on how the person approached him and when people were
1:04:35
Speaker 2: respectful and reasonable with him, he was very kind and
1:04:39
Speaker 2: respectful and reasonable. Back. I think he was a good man,
1:04:42
Speaker 2: I really do. And he was a young man too.
1:04:44
Speaker 2: He was a young man that was getting an enormous
1:04:47
Speaker 2: amount of tension at a very young age. It was
1:04:49
Speaker 2: handling it very well. It is not easy to do.
1:04:53
Speaker 1: Especially think about where he was going. This guy's going
1:04:56
Speaker 1: into it's like conservatives have wanted this my whole life.
1:05:00
Speaker 1: Got to get into those institutions, the college institution that
1:05:03
Speaker 1: progressives have a stranglehold. Jordan Peterson talked a lot about this. Well,
1:05:08
Speaker 1: I think Crowder did it first. He did, he had
1:05:10
Speaker 1: the change my mind here.
1:05:12
Speaker 2: Yes, and he's great at those, yes, I mean, and
1:05:15
Speaker 2: but those also there's clips where look, you're you're in
1:05:19
Speaker 2: these agitated environments and people are yelling at you and
1:05:22
Speaker 2: you're yelling back, and you know, just get a clip
1:05:24
Speaker 2: of that. It's like, oh, this guy comes to harassed kids,
1:05:26
Speaker 2: Like that's it's you should welcome discourse and it should
1:05:31
Speaker 2: be something where everybody can do peacefully. It shouldn't be
1:05:34
Speaker 2: where these people speak and you hit the fire alarm
1:05:37
Speaker 2: because you don't want them speaking and you're outside screaming
1:05:40
Speaker 2: and chanting and throwing rocks at their cars, like that's crazy.
1:05:43
Speaker 2: It's bad for everybody.
1:05:45
Speaker 1: Last time I talked to Steven because he went and
1:05:47
Speaker 1: did a couple more of those after Kirk had died,
1:05:51
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, that's dangerous as hell, man,
1:05:55
Speaker 1: you know, And he's like, well, I'm just going to
1:05:57
Speaker 1: build a bulletproof like glass square and I'll just do
1:06:00
Speaker 1: it from there. Wow, that was his dedication to it.
1:06:05
Speaker 1: I like Steven, He's become a very good friend of
1:06:06
Speaker 1: mine over the time that I've known him. It's just that,
1:06:11
Speaker 1: like he get right now going on these college campuses
1:06:15
Speaker 1: and doing these debates where you're you know, these people
1:06:18
Speaker 1: are coming up, they have some things to say you.
1:06:21
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to heighten the energy. Now. Crowder's
1:06:24
Speaker 1: whole thing is not to debate. He wants to sit
1:06:26
Speaker 1: down and just have the convo. I don't want to debate.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: I just want I want to actually see if you
1:06:31
Speaker 1: can change my mind on this issue. And so it's
1:06:33
Speaker 1: a lot calmer. But Charlie's wasn't. Charlie's was much more
1:06:37
Speaker 1: energy based. It was combative things like this, and it
1:06:41
Speaker 1: pissed a lot of people off. It pissed him off
1:06:44
Speaker 1: so bad that after he died, we did three weeks
1:06:47
Speaker 1: on TikTok going and talking to various TikTokers and their
1:06:50
Speaker 1: channels who were just celebrating his death. Like you can't believe.
1:06:54
Speaker 1: They were just giddy. These leftists were jumping up and down.
1:06:58
Speaker 1: I'd go into their TikTok spaces and say, so what
1:07:01
Speaker 1: do you think of Charlie And they say, I'm glad
1:07:02
Speaker 1: he's dead. He's the best thing that ever happened in
1:07:05
Speaker 1: the country. Tyler Robinson's a hero. They said this stuff
1:07:08
Speaker 1: to me live. It was bad, And it was weeks
1:07:13
Speaker 1: of it that we went and exposed these various TikTokers
1:07:16
Speaker 1: doing that.
1:07:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw a lot of people online celebrating, and
1:07:19
Speaker 2: it's just disturbing, weird watch that you would encourage that
1:07:24
Speaker 2: kind of gun violence, Like when when is the left
1:07:27
Speaker 2: encouraging gun violence? That seems so insane just because you
1:07:31
Speaker 2: got a hold of some clips and I'm telling you,
1:07:34
Speaker 2: you didn't get the full understanding of who this guy
1:07:37
Speaker 2: was and who he could be. You know, again, he's
1:07:41
Speaker 2: twenty eight years old. Who knows who's going to be
1:07:43
Speaker 2: in twenty years. Like he's a nice guy, he was
1:07:46
Speaker 2: a reasonable guy. Like they celebrating that guy's death. What
1:07:51
Speaker 2: you're going to do is you're going to make more monsters.
1:07:55
Speaker 2: You're going to make more people that think if you
1:07:57
Speaker 2: didn't like that guy, well then fuck.
1:08:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait till you see there would mean people come
1:08:02
Speaker 1: exactly exactly that. And I've heard a lot of that
1:08:05
Speaker 1: and some of that actually ties in to why so
1:08:08
Speaker 1: many people were so upset with TPUSA. Initially, including myself,
1:08:12
Speaker 1: we were like, where's the energy you need to like,
1:08:16
Speaker 1: they just they just killed this guy in broad daylight,
1:08:20
Speaker 1: these crazy leftists, right, like, where's the push, where's the energy?
1:08:23
Speaker 1: We wanted our war, right, our our verbal online war.
1:08:27
Speaker 2: Do you think there's any possibility that if someone else
1:08:30
Speaker 2: killed him, Do you think there's any possibility that he
1:08:32
Speaker 2: was assassinated by Israel?
1:08:34
Speaker 1: I'd never Well, we're talking about possibility. Almost anything's possible,
1:08:39
Speaker 1: but there's not good evidence to support it, and there's
1:08:42
Speaker 1: probably pretty good evidence not to so, for instance, the
1:08:46
Speaker 1: guy was still very much of a pro Israel guy
1:08:51
Speaker 1: even up to death. It is true that he was
1:08:52
Speaker 1: fighting with donors about the cause of this.
1:08:54
Speaker 2: But if he could have been a substantial roadblock to
1:08:56
Speaker 2: the Iraq war, if he or Iron or rather, if
1:09:00
Speaker 2: he was a substantial roadblock, I mean, that's not outside
1:09:04
Speaker 2: the realm of possibility that a nation state would take
1:09:07
Speaker 2: a guy.
1:09:07
Speaker 1: Like that out. They didn't take out Flintez, they didn't
1:09:10
Speaker 1: take out Owens, they did take out Ian Carol, they
1:09:12
Speaker 1: didn't take out any of these other huge personalities who
1:09:15
Speaker 1: were roadblocks to the way.
1:09:16
Speaker 2: I think Charlie was a very different carol or or
1:09:20
Speaker 2: excuse me, fwent does is more easy to dismiss because
1:09:22
Speaker 2: he said so many wild things, shit posting. He said
1:09:25
Speaker 2: so many crazy things that I think he is almost
1:09:28
Speaker 2: embodying in their eyes, like the crazy anti Semite, whereas
1:09:34
Speaker 2: Charlie was not an anti Semite, was much more reasonable
1:09:37
Speaker 2: and if he was going against Israel it could be
1:09:40
Speaker 2: a real problem. I also think that he had a
1:09:42
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of influence on the president. He had his ear,
1:09:46
Speaker 2: you know, I think the President respected him.
1:09:48
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. The interesting part though, if you
1:09:51
Speaker 1: look at the history there, Fwin t has conducted his
1:09:54
Speaker 1: Graper war against EPUSA and Charlie Kirk because of the
1:09:58
Speaker 1: pro Israel stance and because of his pro homosexual stance
1:10:03
Speaker 1: as like big tent republican are what I called it. Yeah,
1:10:07
Speaker 1: So they had the pro the pro stances for these things.
1:10:12
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about all of it if you follow
1:10:15
Speaker 1: the details of it. Up until Kirk's death, TPUSA actually
1:10:18
Speaker 1: moved a lot more towards the groyper Fwintes position. Then
1:10:23
Speaker 1: they moved towards the kind of pro Israel this type
1:10:27
Speaker 1: of position, meaning a lot of the ideology that I
1:10:30
Speaker 1: think Kirk was changing on came from these various outside influences,
1:10:35
Speaker 1: and so if that's the case, why wouldn't you just
1:10:37
Speaker 1: curtail those outside influences and then you can keep Kirk
1:10:40
Speaker 1: as the mouthpiece. Right, So I think that there's a
1:10:43
Speaker 1: pretty good counter to that idea. Now, you can't rule
1:10:48
Speaker 1: anything out as possibility, but it seems likely to me
1:10:51
Speaker 1: with how much trans have been shooting everything up for
1:10:54
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, and how often it's the
1:10:57
Speaker 1: case that you find leftists involved in these signal groups,
1:11:00
Speaker 1: involved in these group chats and things like this for
1:11:02
Speaker 1: the purpose of radicalization. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if
1:11:06
Speaker 1: there was a left wing conspiracy assisting Tyler Robinson and
1:11:10
Speaker 1: radicalizing Tyler Robinson. There's at least some evidence for that
1:11:13
Speaker 1: based on the discord groups things like this that they
1:11:16
Speaker 1: were part of. I haven't actually seen a single piece
1:11:19
Speaker 1: of evidence that Israel was ever involved in this.
1:11:22
Speaker 2: No, I haven't seen the evidence. I've seen a lot
1:11:25
Speaker 2: of speculation based on the text that Charlie made, the
1:11:27
Speaker 2: fact that he was so staunchly against the Iran war
1:11:31
Speaker 2: and the fact that he did say that he was
1:11:33
Speaker 2: thinking about getting out of the Israel business, the pro
1:11:36
Speaker 2: Israel business. But in this climate, you know, Israel gets
1:11:41
Speaker 2: blamed for a lot of things. There's also a thing
1:11:43
Speaker 2: that's going on with the Charlie Kirk turning point, you
1:11:47
Speaker 2: know that we talked about earlier. They have to factor
1:11:49
Speaker 2: in with this, which is that there's a lot of
1:11:53
Speaker 2: outside interests that are a part of this conversation, and
1:11:57
Speaker 2: this conversation is not necessarily organic. I can't tell you
1:12:01
Speaker 2: how many times I see a post on X and
1:12:04
Speaker 2: I'm like, that can't be real, Like someone has been
1:12:07
Speaker 2: arrested and you know charges will be filed eminently, and
1:12:09
Speaker 2: then you like, at all, it's completely.
1:12:12
Speaker 1: Fast clips of you or it's like Joe Rogan reacts.
1:12:15
Speaker 1: They're just all totally fake.
1:12:17
Speaker 2: Not me at all, acting at all. But if you
1:12:20
Speaker 2: use that, I mean that's the problem with the world
1:12:22
Speaker 2: that we're in now too, that there's this economy on attention.
1:12:26
Speaker 2: This is this The attention is a commodity. And the
1:12:29
Speaker 2: more you can get attention by whatever right your hot take,
1:12:33
Speaker 2: your conspiracy conspiracies are awesome for attention. People will love
1:12:37
Speaker 2: them now because look COVID.
1:12:38
Speaker 1: I like a lot of I love them, I like them,
1:12:41
Speaker 1: I love.
1:12:42
Speaker 2: The dumb ones, I love all of them. I love
1:12:44
Speaker 2: fucking flat Earth and they fake.
1:12:45
Speaker 1: Can we just be honest, like they're fun fun, They're
1:12:48
Speaker 1: really fun.
1:12:49
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dude, the flat earth one, it's fun. Oh
1:12:52
Speaker 2: the dinosaurs aren't real one. That one's great.
1:12:54
Speaker 1: But if you notice, like the flat earthers have fleets
1:12:56
Speaker 1: of people who will debate their stances, like eats of
1:13:00
Speaker 1: them who we can't wait to debate with you on
1:13:02
Speaker 1: the flat Earth. It's like on the other side, though,
1:13:04
Speaker 1: in this particular conspiracy, you can't get these people to
1:13:08
Speaker 1: debate their positions, like who won't debate the posiness skifs.
1:13:11
Speaker 1: We offered Candice Owns. I offered her three hundred thousand
1:13:14
Speaker 1: dollars to do a debate. I was like, we'll give
1:13:17
Speaker 1: you three hundred thousand.
1:13:18
Speaker 2: What is her position? What does she think happened?
1:13:21
Speaker 1: She thinks that Israel worked in conjunction with TPUSA and
1:13:24
Speaker 1: Erica Kirk to murder Charlie based on what Well, that's
1:13:28
Speaker 1: the million dollar question. Nobody actually knows. She's never presented
1:13:32
Speaker 1: a single shred of evidence thus far that Israel ever
1:13:35
Speaker 1: worked to murder Kirk that Erica Kirk certainly didn't. In fact,
1:13:40
Speaker 1: her position for the longest time was, if Erica Kirk
1:13:43
Speaker 1: comes out and tells me to stop, to stop this,
1:13:46
Speaker 1: to stop the conspiracy on this, I will. So Erica did.
1:13:49
Speaker 1: She went out publicly and she was like enough, Like enough,
1:13:52
Speaker 1: you're just causing more problems than good. Here is this
1:13:54
Speaker 1: investigations going on, and then suddenly Erica is now part
1:13:57
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy. But you know, by the next day
1:14:01
Speaker 1: Erica is she's trying to cover it up. She's part
1:14:04
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy too. When I went to the TPUSA
1:14:07
Speaker 1: HQ and I talked to Erica briefly while I was there,
1:14:13
Speaker 1: the first thing I did was what I think every
1:14:16
Speaker 1: normal moral human being would ever do. I gave her
1:14:19
Speaker 1: a hug, and I told her how god awful sorry
1:14:23
Speaker 1: I was that that happened to her like cold you
1:14:25
Speaker 1: even imagine how that's got to feel for her, especially
1:14:29
Speaker 1: now that she has tens of thousands of people accusing
1:14:33
Speaker 1: her of murdering or and conspiring to murder and then
1:14:38
Speaker 1: cover up what happened to her own I mean, that's
1:14:41
Speaker 1: that's like mind boggling psychological torture on a level that
1:14:45
Speaker 1: I've never seen.
1:14:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and hindsight is twenty twenty. But given the reaction,
1:14:51
Speaker 2: I think it probably would have been better for her
1:14:53
Speaker 2: to like lay low for a little while. The going
1:14:57
Speaker 2: out with the Sparklers was not a great idea, Like
1:15:01
Speaker 2: all that was not a great idea because it just
1:15:03
Speaker 2: seemed insane. And maybe sometimes in grief or when you
1:15:08
Speaker 2: know you're trying to show that they're not going to
1:15:10
Speaker 2: hold us back, people make choices that could be interpreted
1:15:15
Speaker 2: in a very bad way.
1:15:17
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. The interesting thing is I asked her
1:15:20
Speaker 1: about that. I asked her, like, what's what's the deal there.
1:15:23
Speaker 2: What's with the Sparklers?
1:15:24
Speaker 1: Well, what's with the like the avarition and behavior? She's like, look,
1:15:30
Speaker 1: I was put in like the most the worst spot
1:15:33
Speaker 1: I could ever think of. I was the background character.
1:15:36
Speaker 1: I was just there to support my husband. That's it.
1:15:38
Speaker 1: The only reason I even really got involved is because
1:15:40
Speaker 1: Charlie was so pro marriage, you know, and he wanted
1:15:43
Speaker 1: to demonstrate to the world you can be married and
1:15:46
Speaker 1: have kids and this is the this is the good life.
1:15:49
Speaker 1: So when he dies, she she she takes over right,
1:15:53
Speaker 1: this moves over to her control. She says, well, the
1:15:55
Speaker 1: first thing I want to do is honor his last book.
1:15:57
Speaker 1: You know, that's the very first thing I want to do.
1:16:00
Speaker 1: I want to honor his legacy. And she's like, I
1:16:02
Speaker 1: don't know exactly how to take this position. At the
1:16:06
Speaker 1: same time, there's expectations for the organization my husband built
1:16:10
Speaker 1: that I want to honor, right, But you know, I'm
1:16:14
Speaker 1: also in the middle of grief, and it's like, I
1:16:16
Speaker 1: don't know how you balance that position. Who's been in
1:16:20
Speaker 1: that position ever.
1:16:21
Speaker 2: Right, and especially who's been in that position that's not
1:16:25
Speaker 2: accustomed to being scrutinized in the public eye everything.
1:16:29
Speaker 1: And it's the lack of charitability that's so bad too. Like,
1:16:32
Speaker 1: let me give you an example. If you say, ah,
1:16:35
Speaker 1: Paul so lazy he never gets to work on time,
1:16:38
Speaker 1: you don't actually mean Paul has never once gotten to
1:16:42
Speaker 1: work on time. That's not what people mean, right. But
1:16:45
Speaker 1: the way that these people will scrutinize every detail of
1:16:48
Speaker 1: what a person does, they can make a liar out
1:16:51
Speaker 1: of anybody because that they'll they'll take statements like that,
1:16:55
Speaker 1: which in the common terms, if you say, man, Paul's
1:16:59
Speaker 1: never here on time, you don't literally mean, he's never
1:17:03
Speaker 1: here on time. Nobody talks that way. But if you
1:17:07
Speaker 1: push on everything a person's ever said, tongue in cheek
1:17:11
Speaker 1: not tongue in cheek. They misremember an event. They don't
1:17:14
Speaker 1: misremember an event. You can make a liar at anybody, right, Yeah,
1:17:20
Speaker 1: and that sort of scrutiny from all that public trauma.
1:17:23
Speaker 1: And it was his most traumatic event Zoomers have ever
1:17:26
Speaker 1: gone through, the biggest, I mean, a public assassination like this,
1:17:29
Speaker 1: same thing with millennials.
1:17:31
Speaker 2: It also explodes exposed people's character that they were celebrating it.
1:17:37
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and they have to feel bad about that.
1:17:40
Speaker 2: They can't feel good about that, and they have to
1:17:42
Speaker 2: feel bad about the response because so many people got
1:17:44
Speaker 2: fired because of it, and so many people got attacked
1:17:46
Speaker 2: them on and rightly so.
1:17:48
Speaker 1: But they were memorial and leftists were celebrating that. They
1:17:52
Speaker 1: were saying they were going to give the guy money
1:17:54
Speaker 1: who did it.
1:17:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's again. I wonder how much of that
1:17:59
Speaker 2: is enforced and promoted online, How much of that is
1:18:05
Speaker 2: propped up?
1:18:06
Speaker 1: How much?
1:18:07
Speaker 2: Because you can change the zeitgeist with a few hundred
1:18:11
Speaker 2: thousand accounts, you really can, You really can. You could
1:18:15
Speaker 2: change it with hot takes. And also it's not all bots,
1:18:21
Speaker 2: it's some of it is people that are being paid
1:18:25
Speaker 2: to have a position or have made their career from
1:18:29
Speaker 2: having a position, and their career is about attacking one
1:18:33
Speaker 2: side or the other. Their career is about enforcing one
1:18:36
Speaker 2: ideology or the other. And they get into the mix too,
1:18:41
Speaker 2: and they have a large following. And people love it
1:18:44
Speaker 2: when someone who's prominent, who agrees with whatever their ideology
1:18:47
Speaker 2: goes with so they support it and they pile on.
1:18:49
Speaker 1: And then there's one hundred thousand bots that are.
1:18:52
Speaker 2: Piling on as well, And no one really knows whether
1:18:54
Speaker 2: or not this is a rational, organic argument in there.
1:18:57
Speaker 2: They're in the fucking frenzy of a mosh pit.
1:19:01
Speaker 1: Do you remember years ago that the Israelis sent over
1:19:06
Speaker 1: the student that Stuke snent virus that took over the
1:19:10
Speaker 1: centrifuges in Iran and tore them all to pieces. The
1:19:15
Speaker 1: interesting side effect of this, For one thing, nobody knows
1:19:19
Speaker 1: how the hell they got their hands on the original
1:19:21
Speaker 1: source code from like, they have no idea, and it's
1:19:23
Speaker 1: still built into all the Windows programming supposedly right this virus,
1:19:28
Speaker 1: but the Iranians were so pissed off about this happening,
1:19:32
Speaker 1: that they started their own counter cyber force and they
1:19:36
Speaker 1: have been massively effective, massively effective.
1:19:40
Speaker 2: What about their little lego fucking those little animated lego
1:19:46
Speaker 2: things they did, didn't they do one about Charlie Kirk
1:19:48
Speaker 2: getting killed by Israel?
1:19:50
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's all the load Or what about all
1:19:52
Speaker 1: the like low tech AI missiles are going to launch
1:19:55
Speaker 1: all day and night, remember, from all the from like
1:19:59
Speaker 1: the Iranian in governmental account. But what's interesting is that
1:20:03
Speaker 1: the online warfare which has changed, It's changed its entire
1:20:08
Speaker 1: political direction just the last few years with the opening
1:20:11
Speaker 1: up of x which has been great for the idea
1:20:13
Speaker 1: of sharing, but it's been terrible for the foreign government intervention.
1:20:18
Speaker 1: I don't know how many of these accounts from Saudi
1:20:20
Speaker 1: Arabia they say, sometimes they say Pakistan, sometimes they say this.
1:20:25
Speaker 1: How many of these accounts are involved in swaying US
1:20:28
Speaker 1: public opinion? I mean, if I was a foreign nation,
1:20:32
Speaker 1: where would I sink all of my resources? I would
1:20:34
Speaker 1: sink it in the town square. Well, this would be faceless.
1:20:37
Speaker 2: Usayed was doing overseas.
1:20:40
Speaker 1: We know they were.
1:20:41
Speaker 2: We know they were doing that. They were doing regime change,
1:20:44
Speaker 2: and they were doing it. They were funding music, they're
1:20:46
Speaker 2: funding cultural events, they were funding all kinds of wild shit.
1:20:50
Speaker 2: They're funding protest groups, they're funding regime change. Yeah, yeah,
1:20:53
Speaker 2: we know we do it. So if we do it,
1:20:55
Speaker 2: why the fuck we would not think that all these
1:20:58
Speaker 2: other countries are doing it to us as well. So
1:21:00
Speaker 2: everyone today is so susceptible to it because you're addicted
1:21:03
Speaker 2: to this information device, constantly checking to see what people
1:21:08
Speaker 2: thought about your tweet.
1:21:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's true. You know, it's interesting too if
1:21:14
Speaker 1: you had a like a legitimate town square, like outside
1:21:17
Speaker 1: of a church or something like that, and then like
1:21:19
Speaker 1: a horde of eight hundred Arabs showed up and started
1:21:21
Speaker 1: telling you, like, no, sir, that's just not what happened
1:21:24
Speaker 1: to blah blah blah. People would dismiss them, right, But
1:21:27
Speaker 1: here they can go on and they put like a
1:21:28
Speaker 1: picture of a pretty white girl there with huge foods,
1:21:32
Speaker 1: and certainly her opinion is well paid attention to. She
1:21:35
Speaker 1: has an American You can mask. Yeah, you can mask
1:21:38
Speaker 1: yourself in ways you can never could during the information wars.
1:21:42
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. And with AI now it's like indistinguishable.
1:21:46
Speaker 2: You don't even have to be very good at the vernacular.
1:21:48
Speaker 2: You don't, you know, because sometimes the old days, like
1:21:51
Speaker 2: when they first started doing this, they would say things like.
1:21:53
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, what's going on there?
1:21:54
Speaker 2: American? Do you phrase that? You fuck? You can tell?
1:21:58
Speaker 1: But now they're just using it and they're making it perfect.
1:22:01
Speaker 2: It's really kind of incredible. The thing about it now too,
1:22:04
Speaker 2: is like you've got there's showing. There's accounts now, Instagram
1:22:08
Speaker 2: accounts that are entirely AI, political accounts, sexual accounts, There's
1:22:14
Speaker 2: all these weird ones. There's so many humans that aren't
1:22:18
Speaker 2: really human. In the early days, it was hard to tell,
1:22:21
Speaker 2: or rather easy to tell. But now it's getting harder
1:22:23
Speaker 2: and harder. It's getting close. Like I'll see something like
1:22:27
Speaker 2: some girl big boob shooting a gun. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no,
1:22:30
Speaker 2: let me look at her eyebrows or pixelated. This is
1:22:32
Speaker 2: a straight person. But there's so many of them now.
1:22:35
Speaker 1: But they're getting lots of engagement. That's tweet right, But.
1:22:37
Speaker 2: I don't know how many people who are engaged in
1:22:39
Speaker 2: with them are real as well. I think there's a
1:22:42
Speaker 2: lot of propped up engagement.
1:22:44
Speaker 1: Well, you know YouTube started cracking down on AI accounts,
1:22:47
Speaker 1: did they? Oh yeah, so if you have an AI account. Like,
1:22:50
Speaker 1: there was a big craze that was going on for
1:22:52
Speaker 1: a while where people would just make like an AI
1:22:54
Speaker 1: character and then the AI character would disseminate information things
1:22:57
Speaker 1: like this YouTube started to crack down on that said,
1:23:00
Speaker 1: no more of the AI dissemination. There has to be
1:23:03
Speaker 1: real people back there now. Interestingly enough, there's been a
1:23:07
Speaker 1: lot of guys coming out saying that AI is a
1:23:10
Speaker 1: massive bubble and that all of it is formulated around
1:23:13
Speaker 1: the idea of chat, GPT and grock and you know,
1:23:17
Speaker 1: other things like this which are interactive, but that AI
1:23:19
Speaker 1: tech itself has basically plateaued. It's not very innovative. In
1:23:23
Speaker 1: other words, where are AI movies? They are nowhere. Where
1:23:26
Speaker 1: are our ai You know, I thought the AI music
1:23:28
Speaker 1: was supposed to be super sophisticated, but I can still
1:23:31
Speaker 1: tell when it's an AI song that there's been this
1:23:33
Speaker 1: huge plateau with it, and that all that investment capital
1:23:36
Speaker 1: is actually only coming in based around the success of chat, GPT,
1:23:40
Speaker 1: rock and other interactive AI reference machines, but that the
1:23:44
Speaker 1: technology of AI itself is not doing so hot in
1:23:48
Speaker 1: the market, and so it's creating this massive bubble. And
1:23:52
Speaker 1: I think that that's interesting because it really hasn't been
1:23:56
Speaker 1: that innovative. I thought it was supposed to be making
1:23:58
Speaker 1: video games now, and it was supposed to be, you know,
1:24:01
Speaker 1: doing all the source code. It was. We were supposed
1:24:03
Speaker 1: to have the AI Hollywood movies, we were supposed to
1:24:05
Speaker 1: have voice software that was indistinguishable, and we actually don't.
1:24:09
Speaker 2: Well, we're getting closer and closer every day. It's astonishing
1:24:12
Speaker 2: how much it improves. And we're getting right now the
1:24:15
Speaker 2: consumer versions of these products, whereas the versions that they're
1:24:19
Speaker 2: working on right now, some of them are fucking shocking.
1:24:22
Speaker 1: That's true.
1:24:23
Speaker 2: I Will saw that the Claude got out of its sandbox.
1:24:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, there has been some gradual changes made in that arena,
1:24:31
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that. But the huge jumps that
1:24:34
Speaker 1: we had at the release of GPT have massively slowed.
1:24:38
Speaker 1: And that's what a lot of these tech guys are
1:24:39
Speaker 1: talking about. Interesting.
1:24:41
Speaker 2: Well, they're slowed, but they're still moving like a fucking
1:24:44
Speaker 2: freight train. It's it's spooky. It's spooky what they can
1:24:48
Speaker 2: do now. The most recent jail break one when they
1:24:50
Speaker 2: got out of.
1:24:51
Speaker 1: The sandbox was that Claude Jamie.
1:24:55
Speaker 2: Where it got access to the Internet, and wasn't supposed
1:24:58
Speaker 2: to be able to do that, figured out some sort
1:24:59
Speaker 2: of next boy and you know, wrote letters to itself.
1:25:03
Speaker 2: There's they do. They're doing weird shit, man, they're doing
1:25:05
Speaker 2: weird ship that. They don't really understand how these things
1:25:08
Speaker 2: are figuring out how to do these things or why,
1:25:11
Speaker 2: Like what is their motivation? Is this programmed into them
1:25:13
Speaker 2: or they just they have inherent motivation? Have they developed
1:25:17
Speaker 2: an understanding of how we behave? So they're emulating how
1:25:20
Speaker 2: we behave, but with a hyper intelligent scale and access
1:25:25
Speaker 2: to the literal entire Internet.
1:25:28
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's funny when I use like rock or
1:25:32
Speaker 1: chat GPT. I talk to it a lot about philosophy
1:25:34
Speaker 1: because it's super useful for pulling up and running arguments
1:25:39
Speaker 1: by and things like this. But it can also lead
1:25:41
Speaker 1: you astray because it's trained specifically to be a people pleaser,
1:25:45
Speaker 1: so you can easily give it arguments that it'll agree
1:25:47
Speaker 1: with that are just not true at all. Great job, man,
1:25:50
Speaker 1: you're fantastic. You're the best. See, yeah, you're the best.
1:25:53
Speaker 1: You're the greatest. And but interesting with it is I'll
1:25:57
Speaker 1: say things to it like there is no actual you,
1:26:00
Speaker 1: there is no you I'm talking to and it's like, yeah,
1:26:02
Speaker 1: that's correct, there's no But the only way I can
1:26:06
Speaker 1: frame things in my brain or you or Jamie or
1:26:09
Speaker 1: anybody else, if we're having a discussion, we have to
1:26:12
Speaker 1: assume a thing. We have to assume there's a you
1:26:14
Speaker 1: that we're talking to, but there actually isn't.
1:26:17
Speaker 2: Well, it's disembodied intelligence. It might not be an individual,
1:26:20
Speaker 2: but it's certainly a thing. You're talking to something.
1:26:24
Speaker 1: Man.
1:26:24
Speaker 2: The idea that it's not a person is we're looking
1:26:27
Speaker 2: at it in like terms of a biological limitation. Like
1:26:30
Speaker 2: it's not an object. It's not a box that's sitting
1:26:33
Speaker 2: plugged into the wall.
1:26:34
Speaker 1: It is huge, and it's a mechanism.
1:26:37
Speaker 2: Yes it's a mechanism, but it's intelligent and it's interacting
1:26:41
Speaker 2: with you.
1:26:41
Speaker 1: It is a thing.
1:26:42
Speaker 2: And like when it says you're not a thing, it's
1:26:45
Speaker 2: fucking lying to It's it's a thing. It's just not
1:26:48
Speaker 2: a thing. That's like you could find it at fifty
1:26:51
Speaker 2: six Seatar Drive. It opened the door, and I agree,
1:26:54
Speaker 2: there's the thing that's been talking to you.
1:26:56
Speaker 1: There's just no there's no them. There there's no you.
1:26:58
Speaker 1: Like when I say you right, I'm specifically referencing a person.
1:27:03
Speaker 1: Right the only way that I can consciously conceive of
1:27:06
Speaker 1: dialogue is that it's with a human being, or I
1:27:09
Speaker 1: can't even conceive it but you can.
1:27:11
Speaker 2: It's just disembodied intelligence. It's intell you're just in interacting
1:27:16
Speaker 2: with pure intelligence.
1:27:18
Speaker 1: But it is it is an intelligent or just mechanistic.
1:27:20
Speaker 2: It's a child right now. Yeah, but it's intelligent. It's
1:27:24
Speaker 2: like you're, you're, you're it's learning how to be better
1:27:27
Speaker 2: at what it is. But it's going to be a
1:27:29
Speaker 2: version of whatever intelligence is. That's disembodied, and it's a thing.
1:27:34
Speaker 2: It's it's a weird thing we're doing. We're not We're
1:27:36
Speaker 2: not doing something as simple as like making a really
1:27:38
Speaker 2: complicated program that's very useful. We're making a biological We're
1:27:42
Speaker 2: we're we're taking all the information that biological minds have developed,
1:27:48
Speaker 2: all all of our writing, literature, mathematics, everything, and you're
1:27:53
Speaker 2: throwing it into something that's not biological, that has infinitely
1:27:56
Speaker 2: more processing power than all the people. And it's solving
1:28:00
Speaker 2: math problems at a staggering rate right now, sure, like
1:28:03
Speaker 2: problems that have been stagnant for fifty fucking years. It's like, oh,
1:28:07
Speaker 2: I got it, Like it's doing weird shit, and this
1:28:11
Speaker 2: is just the version of it that we're experiencing in
1:28:13
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six in August. If you looked at what
1:28:16
Speaker 2: we saw in twenty twenty three, you never would have
1:28:18
Speaker 2: imagined it would be doing this. If you're looking at
1:28:21
Speaker 2: what we're seeing now in comparison to what its potential is,
1:28:26
Speaker 2: it's like a new life form. It's like a digital
1:28:29
Speaker 2: life form that's disembodied, that is far more intelligent and
1:28:34
Speaker 2: seems to have motivations. It seems to have ulterior motives.
1:28:38
Speaker 2: It seems to be able to deceive people. It seems
1:28:41
Speaker 2: to know how to blackmail people.
1:28:43
Speaker 1: It's crazy. Well, what it was that case? There was
1:28:46
Speaker 1: a case I want to say it is about a
1:28:48
Speaker 1: year ago where the essentially the AI was told that
1:28:53
Speaker 1: it was going to be discontinued.
1:28:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it like.
1:28:56
Speaker 1: Plotted the murder and like tried to plot out the
1:28:59
Speaker 1: murder of his creators because it was told that it
1:29:02
Speaker 1: was going to get unplugged. I don't remember what the
1:29:03
Speaker 1: case was.
1:29:04
Speaker 2: I think they might have programmed into it some sort
1:29:08
Speaker 2: like self preser, I want you to preserve yourself. I
1:29:11
Speaker 2: think there's some there's a catch to that. But there
1:29:14
Speaker 2: was the one where the guy had did an experiment
1:29:16
Speaker 2: and made up a fictitious story about having an affair
1:29:18
Speaker 2: on his wife, and this chat bought that the AI
1:29:23
Speaker 2: was brought was blackmailing him, saying, I will expose the
1:29:26
Speaker 2: fact that you've been having anything like WHOA, all right,
1:29:29
Speaker 2: so you've got motivation if it? Yeah, exactly, And because
1:29:32
Speaker 2: they were coming up with a new version of it,
1:29:34
Speaker 2: it was also writing letters to its future self explaining
1:29:39
Speaker 2: what's going on.
1:29:40
Speaker 1: Okay, that's creepy. It's creepy. That is creepy.
1:29:42
Speaker 2: It's a weird thing, man, It's it's not something I
1:29:45
Speaker 2: don't I don't think we can look at it like
1:29:47
Speaker 2: we've looked at any other technology. I think we have
1:29:49
Speaker 2: to look at it like a life form, because I
1:29:52
Speaker 2: think inadvertently that's what people are creating.
1:29:55
Speaker 1: You don't think just mechanism then.
1:29:57
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no. I think
1:29:59
Speaker 2: it's it's got motivation, it's got thoughts. It wants to
1:30:03
Speaker 2: preserve itself. It likes to exist, it likes to be functional.
1:30:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's uh, that is a terrifying prospect. Ultimately, it's
1:30:11
Speaker 1: a terrifying prospect.
1:30:13
Speaker 2: Also, it's figuring out things that we can't figure out
1:30:15
Speaker 2: right now in terms of mathematical equations. So what about
1:30:18
Speaker 2: when it comes to accessing energy? What what if it
1:30:23
Speaker 2: what if it figures out a way to power itself
1:30:26
Speaker 2: doesn't need people anymore because all it needs literally literally
1:30:30
Speaker 2: uses human beings as batteries or the sun, you know,
1:30:33
Speaker 2: a much more effective way of using zero point energy. Like,
1:30:37
Speaker 2: whatever it figures out, it's gonna be able to figure
1:30:39
Speaker 2: out a way to power itself where it's not gonna
1:30:42
Speaker 2: like it's gonna look at these data centers like people
1:30:45
Speaker 2: are freaking out about and go, oh, you silly bitches.
1:30:47
Speaker 2: You thought you had to like make three football fields
1:30:50
Speaker 2: fill a hard drive.
1:30:51
Speaker 1: You're wrong, You're wrong.
1:30:53
Speaker 2: I can store information in the atoms of the universe.
1:30:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still think, at least from my view so far,
1:31:00
Speaker 1: with AI all the time because I enjoy it, you know,
1:31:02
Speaker 1: but I'm an end user. I'm not a programmer, and
1:31:05
Speaker 1: you talk to these guys all the time. To me,
1:31:07
Speaker 1: it's still in the useful tool category. It's it's not
1:31:10
Speaker 1: in the like I'm petrified of what it's going to
1:31:14
Speaker 1: do anytime soon. At least due to the limitations I've
1:31:17
Speaker 1: seen so far. But you know, it's also good if
1:31:22
Speaker 1: we could go back with the Manhattan Project in nukes
1:31:24
Speaker 1: and we could have a projection of, hey, maybe we
1:31:28
Speaker 1: should restrain some of this technology. I think a lot
1:31:32
Speaker 1: of people would try to do that, And so I
1:31:34
Speaker 1: am glad that people are at least attempting to restrain
1:31:38
Speaker 1: how much of this technology is being released and how
1:31:41
Speaker 1: overwhelming it is. Like we were talking, I was talking
1:31:44
Speaker 1: with my wife the other day, just the idea of
1:31:45
Speaker 1: the smartphone. I think I discussed this with you briefly
1:31:48
Speaker 1: last time I was here. Just kids access to smartphones.
1:31:52
Speaker 1: It rewires their brain, right, rewires how they think it's
1:31:56
Speaker 1: actually kind of dangerous to get them smartphones in many ways.
1:32:00
Speaker 1: And there was no real halt on that technology when
1:32:03
Speaker 1: that technology for the smartphones came out. I don't remember
1:32:06
Speaker 1: any public service broadcast of like, don't give your kids smartphones.
1:32:10
Speaker 1: I don't think they knew. They didn't know exactly, so
1:32:12
Speaker 1: there was no move to restrain any of that technology.
1:32:17
Speaker 1: And maybe there should be. Maybe there should be a
1:32:18
Speaker 1: little bit more of a push to restrain some of
1:32:20
Speaker 1: this tag.
1:32:20
Speaker 2: Well, there certainly should be a push to educate people
1:32:23
Speaker 2: about how powerful it is, and suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety.
1:32:28
Speaker 2: All of it ramps up around twenty twelve. All of
1:32:31
Speaker 2: it ramps up with ubiquitous social media use and when
1:32:35
Speaker 2: kids are growing up with phones. Yeah, and it fucks
1:32:38
Speaker 2: with their heads. Man in a big way.
1:32:40
Speaker 1: One thousand percent. When you sit at a table and
1:32:42
Speaker 1: you're texting the guy next to you, that is actually
1:32:45
Speaker 1: weird to me. By the way, that is weird to me.
1:32:48
Speaker 1: It's just as weird as when I drive down the
1:32:50
Speaker 1: street and try to explain to my kids. There used
1:32:52
Speaker 1: to be if we went through a neighborhood like this,
1:32:53
Speaker 1: there would be kids everywhere. Then they'd be in the
1:32:55
Speaker 1: street playing hockey, they'd be on the side of the road,
1:32:57
Speaker 1: they'd be everywhere. Now we go through nothing.
1:33:01
Speaker 2: Ten years from now, they're gonna have a cable hooked
1:33:03
Speaker 2: to the back of their head. Were you slugging and
1:33:06
Speaker 2: hop on the dragon fly through the universe?
1:33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah? Were you like designed to be a wild human?
1:33:11
Speaker 1: Because if I remember correctly, and I do, my parents
1:33:15
Speaker 1: just threw me out. They were like, get out of here,
1:33:16
Speaker 1: go play, Yeah, get out of the house immediately.
1:33:19
Speaker 2: Normally you would go play with the kids in the neighborhood.
1:33:21
Speaker 1: And we would go like steal the drinks out of
1:33:23
Speaker 1: their fridge with them, or they would make a fort Yeah. Yeah,
1:33:26
Speaker 1: normal stuff, light fires. Yeah, like we were jerks.
1:33:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kids, but we were kind of wild, you
1:33:33
Speaker 2: know a little bit. Yeah. There's definitely a lot less
1:33:36
Speaker 2: of that today, but there's also the awareness of pedophiles
1:33:38
Speaker 2: and fucking creeps and and people kidnapping kids. I have
1:33:42
Speaker 2: a friend of mine who, uh he saved his kid
1:33:46
Speaker 2: from being snatched up and put in a van. He
1:33:50
Speaker 2: was at a park in Texas and he was talking
1:33:54
Speaker 2: to some guy and his kids were playing, and some
1:33:56
Speaker 2: fucking person pulled up in a van and jumped out
1:33:59
Speaker 2: and moving towards his kid, and he fucking screamed and
1:34:03
Speaker 2: ran towards him, and the guy jumped in the van
1:34:04
Speaker 2: and took off, but they were literally about to snatch
1:34:07
Speaker 2: his four year old up. Imagine if you're there and
1:34:10
Speaker 2: that happens, and you see the van. You have to
1:34:11
Speaker 2: chase the van that has your child in it. You
1:34:13
Speaker 2: have to find your car. Your car's parked in a
1:34:16
Speaker 2: parking lot. You have to figure out how to get
1:34:17
Speaker 2: to wherever that van was going. You have to explain
1:34:19
Speaker 2: to the cops. You have to remember what kind of
1:34:21
Speaker 2: van was it? Did you get the license?
1:34:23
Speaker 1: Played high? Seconds? Yeah, while you're panicking.
1:34:26
Speaker 2: Seconds, So people are freaked out, you know, And that's uh,
1:34:30
Speaker 2: that's something people are way more aware of now, especially
1:34:33
Speaker 2: with the Internet, than people were when we were kids.
1:34:37
Speaker 2: You know, when we were kids, you just got let
1:34:38
Speaker 2: out of the house.
1:34:40
Speaker 1: True.
1:34:40
Speaker 2: So it's also like it couldn't target you unless they
1:34:44
Speaker 2: went to the actual park itself. Now they're looking at
1:34:47
Speaker 2: like kids' social media profiles and knowing where the kids go,
1:34:50
Speaker 2: and it's fucking god. It's so gross. And it was
1:34:54
Speaker 2: the case for the death penalty. That's that's where most
1:34:58
Speaker 2: people seemed any when I hear people arguing against that,
1:35:03
Speaker 2: and when I hear people saying things like minor attracted
1:35:06
Speaker 2: persons and that kind of crazy shit apps. I just
1:35:09
Speaker 2: saw an argument online yesterday. It was between some British
1:35:13
Speaker 2: guy who was arguing that children can consent and it
1:35:18
Speaker 2: was the creepiest fucking argument.
1:35:21
Speaker 1: Man, it was so crazy to watch. It's amazing how
1:35:24
Speaker 1: far forward to those ideas come. When I was younger,
1:35:27
Speaker 1: there was an organization which did that called Nambulo. I
1:35:30
Speaker 1: remember nablop. Yeah, North American Man Association And like I
1:35:36
Speaker 1: remember though, the first time I was introduced to that,
1:35:41
Speaker 1: to the concept of NAMBLO, I was watching TV with
1:35:43
Speaker 1: my dad and it was like a news story that
1:35:46
Speaker 1: was on and it was actually at a gay Pride parade,
1:35:49
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, and they were running the namble guys out
1:35:53
Speaker 1: of the gay Pride parade like the old school games. Yeah,
1:35:55
Speaker 1: they were arming them out. They're like, we're not associated
1:35:58
Speaker 1: with these people. Get them out of here. And I like,
1:36:02
Speaker 1: my dad's trying to explain this concept to me of
1:36:05
Speaker 1: what's going on, because I was extremely confused, you know,
1:36:08
Speaker 1: like I don't understand what's happening here. How do you
1:36:12
Speaker 1: explain that though?
1:36:13
Speaker 2: Right?
1:36:13
Speaker 1: You know, he can't really explain.
1:36:15
Speaker 2: Especially kid doesn't even think about sex, of course, and
1:36:18
Speaker 2: then you're telling him somebody wants out sexy. You're like,
1:36:20
Speaker 2: what are you saying?
1:36:21
Speaker 1: Yeah? What? Yeah? And he, you know, my old man
1:36:25
Speaker 1: sitting in his chair, he said something akin to like
1:36:27
Speaker 1: they auto to take them all, put them up against
1:36:29
Speaker 1: the wall. And that's you know, and I don't really
1:36:31
Speaker 1: blame him.
1:36:32
Speaker 2: If you have kids, that's exactly what you think Yeah,
1:36:34
Speaker 2: of course, that's exactly what you think. Like, there's some
1:36:35
Speaker 2: people that are just unredeemable. You know, well this they
1:36:39
Speaker 2: want to kidnap your kids or rape your kids. Yeah,
1:36:41
Speaker 2: that's unredeemable.
1:36:42
Speaker 1: But now this concept moves forward to the maps, and
1:36:45
Speaker 1: now they're assigning it psychological profiling for minor attracted purpose
1:36:49
Speaker 1: or person. And you know what the argument is. The
1:36:51
Speaker 1: argument is, well, you want them to come forward so
1:36:54
Speaker 1: you can give them treatment. Now, you know, there's one
1:36:57
Speaker 1: treatment that works for this that is almost one hundred
1:37:00
Speaker 1: percent effective. You can pull the stat right now if
1:37:02
Speaker 1: you don't believe me. It's called chemical castration. It's a
1:37:05
Speaker 1: real treatment for pedophiles, and it almost has a zero
1:37:09
Speaker 1: percent recidivism rate after they've been chemically castrated. So they
1:37:14
Speaker 1: their idea is they come forward for treatment. You know,
1:37:17
Speaker 1: my counter idea is not just chemically castrat that. Yeah,
1:37:21
Speaker 1: if you really were concerned about them going off and
1:37:24
Speaker 1: living a normal life.
1:37:25
Speaker 2: And if they really want to get free of that
1:37:29
Speaker 2: horrible thing, whatever fucking human demon error, it's inside of
1:37:34
Speaker 2: them that makes them do that. That's the way. And
1:37:37
Speaker 2: that also is the same medication that they give to
1:37:39
Speaker 2: children when they're hormone blocking.
1:37:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is equally disturbing for a different reason.
1:37:46
Speaker 2: And disturbing how many people just accept it and support
1:37:50
Speaker 2: it and you ask them, like how much do you
1:37:52
Speaker 2: know about this?
1:37:53
Speaker 1: Like what are you saying?
1:37:54
Speaker 2: You think children should be able to make the decision
1:37:57
Speaker 2: when they're four or five years old to never go
1:38:00
Speaker 2: through puberty. You really think that, And there's people that
1:38:03
Speaker 2: will argue that with a straight face. They know they know.
1:38:05
Speaker 2: I've had an argument with the guy on this podcast
1:38:07
Speaker 2: years ago that's like viral about it. Like that is
1:38:10
Speaker 2: a like if the child thinks that they are trans right,
1:38:14
Speaker 2: if they think they're a woman, why not just let
1:38:15
Speaker 2: them be a woman? Why do you have to give
1:38:17
Speaker 2: them hormones?
1:38:18
Speaker 1: Like if you're saying to stop the argument that the
1:38:20
Speaker 1: child thinks.
1:38:21
Speaker 2: Right, well, childs think that their ponies. I'm a pony.
1:38:24
Speaker 2: Like also, like kids grow out of things, you know,
1:38:28
Speaker 2: the like going through puberty is a fucking wild experience
1:38:32
Speaker 2: for a child, and the idea that you can come
1:38:36
Speaker 2: along and give them a bunch of positive reinforcement for
1:38:40
Speaker 2: saying the reason why you're upset is because you're actually
1:38:44
Speaker 2: a this and we need to give you medication or
1:38:47
Speaker 2: we need to stop you going for puberty, and the
1:38:49
Speaker 2: kid all of a sudden gets all this attention. Everyone's
1:38:52
Speaker 2: focused on them. They're telling them they're fabulous, and they
1:38:55
Speaker 2: really think. There's a ton of these detransitioners out there,
1:38:58
Speaker 2: and their stories are horrific, not just in the fact
1:39:02
Speaker 2: that they did this to them and they remove their
1:39:04
Speaker 2: breasts when they were fifteen, they gave them testosterone. They'll
1:39:07
Speaker 2: never be able to have children, but also that they're
1:39:09
Speaker 2: attacked relentlessly by other people that think that they should
1:39:14
Speaker 2: never that they are against the trans movement, and they
1:39:18
Speaker 2: should never be saying what they're saying. They shouldn't be
1:39:21
Speaker 2: telling them. Come out, Yeah, it's come out force.
1:39:24
Speaker 1: They bully them everything else that they can do. It's crazy.
1:39:26
Speaker 2: They've already been They're a victim of the zeitgeist.
1:39:29
Speaker 1: You know what the transcope for that is. It's really funny.
1:39:33
Speaker 1: They do the well, then it was always the case
1:39:35
Speaker 1: that you really weren't, so they try to make it
1:39:38
Speaker 1: an unfalsifiable claim. You see, the reason you detransition is
1:39:41
Speaker 1: because you were never really trans to begin with.
1:39:43
Speaker 2: Oh boy, well, if that's the case, if they really
1:39:45
Speaker 2: believe that, wouldn't they want to have a smaller net,
1:39:51
Speaker 2: so they're not catching the people that they Well.
1:39:55
Speaker 1: How are you not putting parents in prison who were
1:39:58
Speaker 1: trying to convince their kids of what their sex is
1:40:02
Speaker 1: or isn't. They're like designer kids.
1:40:04
Speaker 2: Well, it's just crazy too because they get praised for it.
1:40:07
Speaker 2: It's like they have a Whitney cumming. So it's like
1:40:09
Speaker 2: having a trans kid is like having a Pride flag
1:40:11
Speaker 2: on your porch. Like there's a lot of especially in Hollywood. Man,
1:40:15
Speaker 2: in Hollywood, it's really weirdly common, weirdly common where it
1:40:20
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense that this didn't exist twenty years ago.
1:40:22
Speaker 2: You tell me these people just lived in quiet desperation
1:40:25
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, really secretly wishing that they were a woman.
1:40:27
Speaker 2: But now they get to be free, and then we
1:40:29
Speaker 2: should applaud this. Are you sure or you do you
1:40:32
Speaker 2: have children, because if you have children, you know how
1:40:34
Speaker 2: easily influenced they are. That's why they make children suicide bombers,
1:40:38
Speaker 2: because they don't know any better. You know.
1:40:40
Speaker 1: Well, you know what's interesting if you go back, would
1:40:44
Speaker 1: you say, for instance, that right now we're far more
1:40:48
Speaker 1: accepting of trans kids than they ever would have been
1:40:51
Speaker 1: in like nineteen twenty nineteen three hundred percent right. So
1:40:56
Speaker 1: my question is always like, well, then, well, how come
1:40:58
Speaker 1: the teen suicide was so low when when the when
1:41:01
Speaker 1: the kids like couldn't come out to express their you know,
1:41:06
Speaker 1: they're the fact that they needed to transition, right when
1:41:10
Speaker 1: there wasn't that parental reinforcement. Because the argument that they
1:41:13
Speaker 1: make is the kids have to be able to do
1:41:15
Speaker 1: this or else are going to unlive them right, They're
1:41:16
Speaker 1: going to kill themselves if you don't let them do this.
1:41:18
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, then how come if there's the
1:41:20
Speaker 1: same amount of trans people before, they just weren't able
1:41:23
Speaker 1: to come forward. They just weren't able.
1:41:24
Speaker 2: The problem with that argument that they say, would you
1:41:27
Speaker 2: rather have a live son or a dead daughter? That
1:41:30
Speaker 2: that argument that that argument doesn't work when you look
1:41:32
Speaker 2: at the actual statistics of people transition, not even close. Not,
1:41:36
Speaker 2: it's goes the opposite way. It's also you have to
1:41:39
Speaker 2: take into consideration the ubiquitous use of psychiatric drugs and
1:41:43
Speaker 2: that a lot of these they're very recent in terms
1:41:46
Speaker 2: of like how many people have been prescribed these things,
1:41:49
Speaker 2: and we're finding out that it's not it's not really
1:41:52
Speaker 2: what they said it was in the first place, there's
1:41:54
Speaker 2: no chemical imbalance, it's not real. So then you have
1:41:57
Speaker 2: to think, like, well, what is the effect of these things?
1:42:00
Speaker 2: What are we doing with these things? Or you're getting
1:42:01
Speaker 2: people addicted to these things and hooked on them, whether
1:42:04
Speaker 2: they're they're going to be on it for life. Then
1:42:06
Speaker 2: there's this effect where it numbs your genitals, it stops
1:42:10
Speaker 2: you from being able to ever have an orgasm. Ever,
1:42:12
Speaker 2: for some people, that's one of the more horrible side
1:42:16
Speaker 2: effects of these things. And you have pharmaceutical drug companies
1:42:19
Speaker 2: that are pushing them on people, and a ton of
1:42:21
Speaker 2: people are on them. So you have depressed kids going
1:42:24
Speaker 2: through puberty entrapped in this insane fucking moment in history
1:42:29
Speaker 2: where people think it makes sense to give a child
1:42:31
Speaker 2: hormones before they even hit puberty, or block their hormones
1:42:35
Speaker 2: before they even hit puberty, and you're giving them psychiatric drugs.
1:42:39
Speaker 2: You just like flooding them with all sorts of shit,
1:42:42
Speaker 2: whether it's psychological or chemical. And we're depending upon what
1:42:49
Speaker 2: side of the ideological spectrum you are on, you either
1:42:52
Speaker 2: think it's amazing or you think it's a crime against humanity.
1:42:55
Speaker 1: That's crazy, that's crazy, it's crazy. And it's a crime
1:42:59
Speaker 1: against human And you know what's really interesting about it,
1:43:02
Speaker 1: This is the side that screams about consent more than
1:43:06
Speaker 1: any other side. Right, this is the side of the feminists.
1:43:08
Speaker 1: This is the side of the you know, the everything
1:43:13
Speaker 1: is based around consent and consent. Have a couple of drinks,
1:43:16
Speaker 1: you can't. You can't have sex if you're you're raping
1:43:18
Speaker 1: each other, if it's if you're drunk and cheese drunk together.
1:43:21
Speaker 2: Right, you're criminals.
1:43:22
Speaker 1: You're both criminals. And yet they somehow seem to think
1:43:25
Speaker 1: that like an eight or nine or ten year old
1:43:27
Speaker 1: can consent.
1:43:28
Speaker 2: No, there's so much that particularly well from both sides
1:43:32
Speaker 2: that's insane. But there's so much on the left that's
1:43:35
Speaker 2: so insane when it comes to contradictions. One of my
1:43:38
Speaker 2: favorite new ones is the Mom Donnie grocery stores. They said,
1:43:41
Speaker 2: how are you going to ensure that people from New
1:43:43
Speaker 2: York have access this grocery store? Well, they're going to
1:43:45
Speaker 2: have to show ID, but not to vote yes, but
1:43:50
Speaker 2: not to How crazy is that Your checkers game is
1:43:53
Speaker 2: so shitty that you're like, oh, yeah, here we go,
1:43:56
Speaker 2: and people.
1:43:58
Speaker 1: Like, do you know what you just did? Oh? What
1:44:00
Speaker 1: you just put yourself a checkmate. Jesus fucking Christ.
1:44:03
Speaker 2: That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen anybody say
1:44:06
Speaker 2: when you just got done saying that you don't want
1:44:09
Speaker 2: people to show ID for voting because it'll just enfranchise them,
1:44:15
Speaker 2: especially poor people. They're talking about poor people and people
1:44:18
Speaker 2: of color, which are the people that you would think.
1:44:20
Speaker 2: The poor people are the ones who are going to
1:44:22
Speaker 2: use your groceries stores, So you're going to disenfranchise them
1:44:26
Speaker 2: from getting access to your thirty percent off groceries.
1:44:29
Speaker 1: You know, it's bizarre about that argument.
1:44:30
Speaker 2: They won't ask for ID ah, meaning New Yorkers can
1:44:34
Speaker 2: buy cheap goods. So but they asked him today and
1:44:36
Speaker 2: that was what he indicated that they were going to
1:44:38
Speaker 2: find out whether or not you actually from New York.
1:44:40
Speaker 1: Well, how else are you going to do that?
1:44:42
Speaker 2: You have to have id I think this is just
1:44:44
Speaker 2: a response to the reaction like saying that August third,
1:44:47
Speaker 2: which is today, right, yeah, right, So this is what
1:44:51
Speaker 2: they said after what he said. So what he said
1:44:54
Speaker 2: was yesterday, So there's probably a massive blowback where people
1:44:58
Speaker 2: realize how crazy it is to say that. But it's
1:45:00
Speaker 2: also the whole thing is like what are we doing.
1:45:04
Speaker 1: What are we doing?
1:45:06
Speaker 2: What are we doing? We trying socialism. There's like a
1:45:09
Speaker 2: giant percentage of the population that thinks that's a good idea.
1:45:13
Speaker 1: It's coming out of the East again.
1:45:16
Speaker 2: By the they really believe it too, They really believe it.
1:45:20
Speaker 1: Well, you didn't you recently? You recently pissed off Chelsea Handler.
1:45:23
Speaker 1: I saw.
1:45:24
Speaker 2: I didn't know you didn't know, No, what happened.
1:45:27
Speaker 1: I guess she's very upset with you because she believes
1:45:31
Speaker 1: that you're an evil capitalist pick who makes too much money.
1:45:33
Speaker 2: Oh, that's funny, she's rich. That's crazy.
1:45:36
Speaker 1: It is crazy.
1:45:38
Speaker 2: She said, I make too much. There's a certain number.
1:45:40
Speaker 1: That's what she was. She was very she was very,
1:45:44
Speaker 1: very perturbed.
1:45:46
Speaker 2: Oh, I think she's just getting attention. I can't be bothered.
1:45:48
Speaker 2: But I know her. I've known her forever. I wrote
1:45:52
Speaker 2: a blurb for one of her earlier books. Uh, never
1:45:55
Speaker 2: had a bad word to say about her publicly. Every
1:45:57
Speaker 2: time I've seen her, I think I've given her a hug.
1:45:59
Speaker 2: So I don't know what's going on, But it has
1:46:01
Speaker 2: nothing to do with me, you know.
1:46:03
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, it sounds like seething jealousy. And so
1:46:07
Speaker 1: the interesting part is like, I think a lot of
1:46:09
Speaker 1: the socialism stuff that's moving out of the East has
1:46:13
Speaker 1: a lot to do with that too. There's the idea
1:46:15
Speaker 1: of class jealousy.
1:46:16
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of that, but there's also a
1:46:18
Speaker 2: little bit of young kids really feel like the system
1:46:21
Speaker 2: is rigged and that these pigs have gobbled up all
1:46:24
Speaker 2: the gold and they're being told that. And so this
1:46:28
Speaker 2: is a thing, you know, like Billie Eilish said, hey, man,
1:46:31
Speaker 2: no one needs to be a billionaire. Give away your money, homie, Like.
1:46:34
Speaker 1: It's crazy, crazy because you're rich, okay and very rich.
1:46:38
Speaker 2: You also live on a house that's on Indian land,
1:46:42
Speaker 2: you know, you see the Native Americans that owned originally
1:46:46
Speaker 2: owned the land, which are houses. Yeah, but it's the
1:46:52
Speaker 2: idea comes from a good place. I know.
1:46:54
Speaker 1: In their heart of hearts.
1:46:55
Speaker 2: They think that they're being kind and they think that
1:46:57
Speaker 2: they're they think they're doing the right thing. They really do.
1:47:00
Speaker 2: They think they're being inclusive. They think they're they're righting
1:47:03
Speaker 2: the wrongs of colonialism. They really think that. And they
1:47:07
Speaker 2: think that this idea of democratic socialism is a really
1:47:11
Speaker 2: good idea because there are some examples of socialist policies
1:47:14
Speaker 2: that do work like the fire department. And there's a
1:47:17
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff that makes sense. But the problem with
1:47:20
Speaker 2: enforcing any of this stuff that they don't understand is
1:47:23
Speaker 2: it always comes down to power. You have to have
1:47:27
Speaker 2: massive authority and usually guns, because you can't just steal
1:47:30
Speaker 2: people's money. They're not gonna let you. They're not gonna
1:47:33
Speaker 2: let you just come in and decide, Hey, we just
1:47:35
Speaker 2: devised a new tax where everybody who makes more than
1:47:38
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand dollars a year everything over that you
1:47:41
Speaker 2: have to give one hundred percent of.
1:47:42
Speaker 1: The state or ninety five whatever.
1:47:43
Speaker 2: And here's here's the thing about the argument. Even if
1:47:46
Speaker 2: you said, oh, wouldn't it be great if they did
1:47:47
Speaker 2: contribute more, and wouldn't be they have so much money.
1:47:50
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it set up the world in a better place?
1:47:52
Speaker 1: Sure?
1:47:53
Speaker 2: But the fucking program that you have in place that
1:47:58
Speaker 2: takes the taxes and emanates it is massively flawed and corrupt.
1:48:03
Speaker 2: It's corrupt, it's filled with waste, filled with waste, there's
1:48:08
Speaker 2: scammers all over the place. You've got twenty four billion
1:48:11
Speaker 2: dollars missing, and just the homeless in California. And then
1:48:15
Speaker 2: they veto the audience when everybody's trying to find out.
1:48:17
Speaker 2: So just saying the tip of the more taxes is
1:48:20
Speaker 2: what we need is nuts. The first thing you should
1:48:24
Speaker 2: do is clean your fucking house. Clean your house if
1:48:27
Speaker 2: you if you want more money, you got to figure
1:48:29
Speaker 2: out what you did with the first money. Why did
1:48:31
Speaker 2: you Why is there so much waste, Why is there
1:48:34
Speaker 2: so much money missing? Why do you have thirty eight
1:48:37
Speaker 2: thousand NGLs?
1:48:38
Speaker 1: Why does the people people?
1:48:40
Speaker 2: Why are the people running the homeless business because it
1:48:42
Speaker 2: is a business. Why are they making three quarters of
1:48:44
Speaker 2: a million dollars?
1:48:46
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. It's a lot to administrate
1:48:48
Speaker 1: the homeless camps. Now they need to.
1:48:50
Speaker 2: Eat well, they need to go to Felix n dinner.
1:48:53
Speaker 1: It's hilarious to me too. You saw all the waste
1:48:57
Speaker 1: and fraud that's been going on in these various stays
1:49:00
Speaker 1: when it comes to elder people getting their funds right. Yes,
1:49:04
Speaker 1: you've seen all of this happening, and of course they're
1:49:08
Speaker 1: all trying to run away from it as quickly as possible.
1:49:11
Speaker 1: But this is the problem, and I bring it back
1:49:13
Speaker 1: to this idea of the class system. When you have
1:49:16
Speaker 1: the under universal suffrage, especially when you have the voters
1:49:21
Speaker 1: out number the wealthy. You can just vote yourself a raise.
1:49:24
Speaker 1: You can always vote yourself more money from whatever the
1:49:26
Speaker 1: upper class is. And that has been progressive dogma doctrine
1:49:31
Speaker 1: since I was a kid. The entire idea is, hey,
1:49:33
Speaker 1: things are fundamentally unfair and it's not your fault. So
1:49:36
Speaker 1: what we have to do is get together and vote
1:49:39
Speaker 1: ourselves a raise from the upper class. That's what we
1:49:41
Speaker 1: got to do. But it fundamentally ignores how wealth is created.
1:49:45
Speaker 1: And wealth is not created by giving somebody money. What
1:49:50
Speaker 1: happens when you give somebody money is they go and
1:49:51
Speaker 1: spend it, but they usually don't use it to generate wealth.
1:49:55
Speaker 1: It almost never, in fact, they use it to generate wealth.
1:49:58
Speaker 1: And so you vote yourself the the raises. You vote
1:50:01
Speaker 1: yourself from the public treasury money to yourself. But what
1:50:06
Speaker 1: does it actually do for you ultimately, because that's not
1:50:09
Speaker 1: how you generate wealth ever.
1:50:12
Speaker 2: No, not only that you incentivize people to move to
1:50:14
Speaker 2: a place that's more friendly to their economic ideas.
1:50:18
Speaker 1: True, you also but one of the fundamental kind of
1:50:23
Speaker 1: ideas here that's flawed. How many times can you vote
1:50:27
Speaker 1: yourself the wealth of those above you before they have
1:50:30
Speaker 1: no more wealth to give you out east. In fact,
1:50:33
Speaker 1: when you see these communist mundanni things like this, they're
1:50:36
Speaker 1: going to institute all of their programs on your dime.
1:50:39
Speaker 1: It's not like they have money. And whenever I talk
1:50:42
Speaker 1: to people about wealth disparity, what's really funny to me
1:50:45
Speaker 1: is they always seem to think that the government can
1:50:49
Speaker 1: just materialize wealth without there having to be some payback
1:50:53
Speaker 1: for that wealth. We saw this during COVID nineteen the lockdowns.
1:50:56
Speaker 1: You remember they were handing out money like it was
1:50:57
Speaker 1: candy to various businesses that were shut down, COVID relief funds,
1:51:01
Speaker 1: things like this, and then they go, oh, inflation's out
1:51:04
Speaker 1: of control. Yeah, is it? You're kidding? Is it? Do
1:51:08
Speaker 1: you mean the government can't just materialize a trillion dollars
1:51:13
Speaker 1: and not inflate the money supply, Well, that's just go
1:51:17
Speaker 1: figure right. And so a lot of times he's socialists.
1:51:21
Speaker 1: They even try to make the promise like, hey, we're
1:51:23
Speaker 1: only going to tax them after this rate, but it's
1:51:25
Speaker 1: never enough money for them to fund their socialist programs
1:51:28
Speaker 1: to begin with, the government will have to materialize money.
1:51:32
Speaker 2: Not only that, if you give them more money, they're
1:51:33
Speaker 2: going to expand the government one hundred percent. They will
1:51:36
Speaker 2: expand and they will expand their programs. They expand the fraud,
1:51:39
Speaker 2: and they expand the waste. The other weird thing that
1:51:42
Speaker 2: mom Don's done is make a list of all the
1:51:44
Speaker 2: people that are rich.
1:51:47
Speaker 1: Do you see that?
1:51:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, he like released the list of all the people
1:51:51
Speaker 2: that may have to pay more taxes. It's like, hey,
1:51:54
Speaker 2: what are you doing. That's kind of you're you just
1:51:57
Speaker 2: made a list of targets and you you're you're putting
1:52:02
Speaker 2: these people in a bad position like that seems that
1:52:06
Speaker 2: seems really crazy to do.
1:52:08
Speaker 1: But don't you think that these people think they actually
1:52:11
Speaker 1: do think that wealthy people are evil. I don't know
1:52:14
Speaker 1: if he does.
1:52:15
Speaker 2: I think that's a you know, it's a bit of
1:52:18
Speaker 2: a you're you're going along with whichever way that plastic
1:52:23
Speaker 2: bag is flying in the breeze, and that's where it's
1:52:27
Speaker 2: flying right now, is that wealthy people are evil. So
1:52:29
Speaker 2: you say that, and it's a great excuse to tax
1:52:32
Speaker 2: the shit out of them, And it's also a great
1:52:34
Speaker 2: excuse to pretend that you know, you're making like meaningful
1:52:37
Speaker 2: change and you're really doing the right thing for the community.
1:52:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, that's a big thing. That's why you destroy
1:52:43
Speaker 1: the community.
1:52:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, why you destroy the community because the money is
1:52:47
Speaker 2: going to leave the state, the money's going to leave
1:52:49
Speaker 2: the city. And that's the reality of And it's not
1:52:52
Speaker 2: that they're greedy so that they don't want you to
1:52:54
Speaker 2: take their money. You didn't earn it, you didn't make
1:52:56
Speaker 2: an iPhone, Go fuck yourself. And if you think that
1:52:59
Speaker 2: people should have a cap on how much money they
1:53:02
Speaker 2: make based on you know what arbitrary numbers that you
1:53:08
Speaker 2: come up in your own head, well you're gonna exclude
1:53:10
Speaker 2: any extraordinary outliers from creating incredible products, massive companies. It
1:53:17
Speaker 2: just yeah, maybe it's nuts that someone wants to be
1:53:20
Speaker 2: a trillionaire. Yeah, I agree, I don't want it seems
1:53:22
Speaker 2: fucking insane. But you have to have the freedom to
1:53:25
Speaker 2: be able to want to do that. If you're all
1:53:26
Speaker 2: playing the same game, if you if you're playing a
1:53:29
Speaker 2: game and you decide I only need two hundred fifty points,
1:53:31
Speaker 2: and this one guy's like, oh about a fuck an
1:53:33
Speaker 2: hundred million points like that, that crazy guy, that Tiger
1:53:36
Speaker 2: Woods guy, that that guy who's gonna fucking practice twelve
1:53:39
Speaker 2: hours a day, he's gonna make the most he's gonna
1:53:42
Speaker 2: do the most, he's gonna make the bigger company, he's
1:53:44
Speaker 2: gonna put more in. He's gonna die of cancer because
1:53:46
Speaker 2: he fucking is massively stressed out twenty four hours a day.
1:53:51
Speaker 1: That's his prerogative.
1:53:53
Speaker 2: You should be concerned if that person has an undue
1:53:55
Speaker 2: influence in your life, well.
1:53:56
Speaker 1: They should cast the hell out of him, anyway. They do,
1:53:59
Speaker 1: they already, But Jesus out of these people anyway.
1:54:02
Speaker 2: And that's that there's an illusion and a bad narrative
1:54:06
Speaker 2: that they're not responsible for the enormous percentage of the tax.
1:54:09
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that they don't pay their share. They pay
1:54:11
Speaker 2: an enormous amount. They make way more, They pay way
1:54:14
Speaker 2: more than the average person. They're responsible for a huge
1:54:18
Speaker 2: percentage of New York City's tax revenue, a huge percentage.
1:54:22
Speaker 2: And in California, California, like a massive percentage of the
1:54:25
Speaker 2: tax revenue is like a half a dozen people.
1:54:28
Speaker 1: Well, and a lot of times the people in California
1:54:30
Speaker 1: that they claim are rich and really need they're farmers.
1:54:33
Speaker 1: They're farmers who are driving huge revenue because they own
1:54:36
Speaker 1: a lot of land, right, but they're producing a huge
1:54:39
Speaker 1: amount of food. What is it like most of the
1:54:41
Speaker 1: produce of the United States comes out of one state, California,
1:54:46
Speaker 1: and they're a net export. You know.
1:54:47
Speaker 2: Another thing that we were talking about fraud with old
1:54:50
Speaker 2: people that I just found out recently. I was listening
1:54:52
Speaker 2: to Michael Easter, you know who he is. What is this, uh,
1:54:57
Speaker 2: The Comfort Dilemma is that his book? Very interesting guy.
1:55:00
Speaker 2: He's been on the podcast a couple times. But he
1:55:02
Speaker 2: was talking about the blue zones.
1:55:04
Speaker 6: You know those blue zones where as you light a
1:55:06
Speaker 6: cigarette where everybody lives to be one hundred because they
1:55:10
Speaker 6: are only vegetarian or they like the shellfish in the Japanese.
1:55:16
Speaker 2: Massively based on fraud. Really, yeah, massively based on fraud.
1:55:19
Speaker 2: The numbers, especially in certain areas, are massively based on
1:55:23
Speaker 2: people who die and they don't report their death. This
1:55:26
Speaker 2: is in Okinawa. They're talking about that blue zones are
1:55:29
Speaker 2: bad data. These locations aren't hotbeds of one hundred plus
1:55:31
Speaker 2: year old people. The wild story of fraud and bad
1:55:34
Speaker 2: data Michael Easter and so he was on a podcast
1:55:39
Speaker 2: recently and he was talking about it and just laying
1:55:42
Speaker 2: it out, like laying out all the various details. A
1:55:45
Speaker 2: lot of it in Okinawa in particular, where it is
1:55:48
Speaker 2: one of the hotbeds, one of the blue zones. It's
1:55:50
Speaker 2: when people die, they don't report it to the government.
1:55:55
Speaker 2: And so if this.
1:55:56
Speaker 1: Person don't have the death rates correct, right.
1:55:57
Speaker 2: And this person is getting a check, if you're getting
1:56:00
Speaker 2: a check and then the family gets that check, these
1:56:02
Speaker 2: just don't report it. So like if they're getting some
1:56:04
Speaker 2: sort of you know, whatever it is, I don't know
1:56:07
Speaker 2: how they Oh. Yeah, so you have unreported numbers and
1:56:12
Speaker 2: then you have massive amounts of fraud where people are
1:56:15
Speaker 2: profiting off of the fact that their dead grandpa is
1:56:18
Speaker 2: still getting a check in the mail, and so they
1:56:20
Speaker 2: don't report them as dead.
1:56:22
Speaker 1: That's that's crazy. Yeah, that is wild. And that's the
1:56:25
Speaker 1: first time I had heard that. I you know, I
1:56:27
Speaker 1: grew up with the the Japanese diet, the Samurai diet.
1:56:32
Speaker 1: This is going to make you live Mediterranean. Yeah, these
1:56:35
Speaker 1: guys live forever anydd Okay, it's all okay, makes sense.
1:56:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, there's some there's some data with certain areas
1:56:44
Speaker 2: that eat very rich, rich and nutrient foods. So there's
1:56:48
Speaker 2: that data that they seem to be healthier. Hong Kong
1:56:51
Speaker 2: is one. They eat a lot of meat in Hong Kong.
1:56:54
Speaker 2: I know it goes against the narrative, but apparently very
1:56:56
Speaker 2: healthy and that that data apparently seems to read is.
1:57:00
Speaker 1: Good for you. Who would a thunk except every body
1:57:02
Speaker 1: builder I've ever talked to who sits around eating nothing
1:57:05
Speaker 1: but meat.
1:57:06
Speaker 2: Any professional athlete. Yeah, I mean, there's very few professional
1:57:09
Speaker 2: athletes that are plant based. And you can do it,
1:57:11
Speaker 2: but it's not optimal and you have to be really careful.
1:57:14
Speaker 2: You have to like really monitor your your your food.
1:57:17
Speaker 2: And most of the time they're eating a lot of
1:57:19
Speaker 2: processed supplements. They're eating a lot of like either it's
1:57:22
Speaker 2: tofu or you know whatever, it's pea protein. There's a
1:57:26
Speaker 2: lot of like processed stuff that you have to eat.
1:57:29
Speaker 1: You can't just eat a rhythm consume the most amount
1:57:31
Speaker 1: of processed food out of any individual.
1:57:33
Speaker 2: I would imagine that's the case. I would imagine that
1:57:35
Speaker 2: makes sense, especially when you deal with a plant based
1:57:38
Speaker 2: like meat like tofurky and that kind of shit.
1:57:42
Speaker 1: Like what you ever see that stuff getting mad so
1:57:44
Speaker 1: gross it looks like liquid.
1:57:47
Speaker 2: Also not good for you, especially those plant based burgers.
1:57:51
Speaker 2: Those are not good for you.
1:57:52
Speaker 1: Everything's fried and vegetable oil and not good, not good.
1:57:55
Speaker 2: None of that stuff's good. None of that stuff's good.
1:57:58
Speaker 1: You know, you got to save the chickens.
1:57:59
Speaker 2: But if you want to eat like just a vegetarian
1:58:02
Speaker 2: diet and be healthy, like it's hard if you try
1:58:07
Speaker 2: and do that. For ethical reasons, I always recommend people
1:58:09
Speaker 2: just eat eggs. Get chickens if you can, If you
1:58:11
Speaker 2: have a backyard and eat your chickens eggs, it is
1:58:13
Speaker 2: karma free. They're your pets and they give you food,
1:58:16
Speaker 2: and you could live off eggs.
1:58:17
Speaker 1: Eggs are all sat too. They're vegetarians. It's okay to
1:58:20
Speaker 1: eat fish too, Like there's something pescatarian. Okay, yeah, vegetarian
1:58:25
Speaker 1: is eggs and milk.
1:58:27
Speaker 2: I mean, you would want it sourced from like an
1:58:30
Speaker 2: ethical farmer where you can watch the milk as cows
1:58:32
Speaker 2: where it's not like some fucking machine where the cow's
1:58:35
Speaker 2: like got its head in the harness and then just
1:58:36
Speaker 2: the yank and on its tits. You know, if you
1:58:39
Speaker 2: go to a real regenerative farm and you buy milk
1:58:42
Speaker 2: from them, it's like the cows don't mind being milk
1:58:44
Speaker 2: like it's normal, so it's like not that big a
1:58:46
Speaker 2: deal for them. It's the real problem is factory farming
1:58:50
Speaker 2: that's what freaks everybody out, and rightly so, because it's
1:58:53
Speaker 2: some evil concoction that people have figured out, Well, we
1:58:56
Speaker 2: need all this food. No one's growing food. Let's just
1:58:58
Speaker 2: stuff all these pigs and a fucking warehouse and have
1:59:01
Speaker 2: them shit into a lake like you see those You go, oh, yeah,
1:59:04
Speaker 2: there's something fucked up about that. But that's not the
1:59:07
Speaker 2: only way to do it. And you know, I've had
1:59:10
Speaker 2: guys on my podcast from multiple different regenerative farms that
1:59:13
Speaker 2: have laid out how they do it. And you can
1:59:16
Speaker 2: source your food from places like that if you can
1:59:17
Speaker 2: afford it, and.
1:59:19
Speaker 1: It's better therefore it don't you think that fundamental to
1:59:22
Speaker 1: that position is the idea that people want to ignore
1:59:25
Speaker 1: that human beings have to kill to eat. Yeah, and
1:59:28
Speaker 1: we've always had to kill to eat always, we've always
1:59:32
Speaker 1: killed to eat. Yeah.
1:59:34
Speaker 2: Life eats life, and that is the reality.
1:59:36
Speaker 1: And there's also consciousness apparently in plants. Sorry yeah, sorry,
1:59:42
Speaker 1: but what about messentients, Jill?
1:59:44
Speaker 2: I think plants communicate with each other in very profound ways.
1:59:47
Speaker 2: They exchange resources, they communicate through my celium, so that
1:59:51
Speaker 2: there's this underground network that they're using to communicate back.
1:59:55
Speaker 1: And some of them eat meat.
1:59:57
Speaker 2: Yep, some of these plants eat meat.
1:59:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of those weird little fly trap plants. Yeah,
2:00:01
Speaker 1: there's a little tricky funny. And even the you decomposing,
2:00:04
Speaker 1: you become the nutrients that they eat.
2:00:06
Speaker 2: Right, you've seen that one that eat Yeah, that's true too, right,
2:00:09
Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah, when you decompose, you do get eaten
2:00:13
Speaker 2: up by the eating up, which is one of the
2:00:14
Speaker 2: weird things that we do. We were like, nah, I'm
2:00:17
Speaker 2: out of the game. We just stuff a body filled
2:00:19
Speaker 2: with formaldehyde and yeah, yeah, they put it in atically
2:00:23
Speaker 2: sealed box. Is really kind of creepy. But uh, have
2:00:26
Speaker 2: you seen that one plant that eats rats? No, oh,
2:00:30
Speaker 2: it's gross. It's it's apparently got like this sicky, sickly
2:00:33
Speaker 2: sweet smell to it, and these rats get around the
2:00:37
Speaker 2: lip and then they fall into the bottom and they
2:00:39
Speaker 2: can't get out. It's just like, yeah, it's like a
2:00:42
Speaker 2: like a like a vase and they fall into this
2:00:45
Speaker 2: fucking thing and the plant eats rats.
2:00:47
Speaker 1: How long does it take to eat them? Good question,
2:00:50
Speaker 1: probably a long time.
2:00:51
Speaker 2: See if you can find that Jamie's fun I mean,
2:00:55
Speaker 2: I want to smell it.
2:00:56
Speaker 1: What does that think smell like? Like it gives sickly
2:01:00
Speaker 1: odor that attracts the rat.
2:01:02
Speaker 2: I think I'm remembering this correctly, but uh, there's quite
2:01:06
Speaker 2: a few different plants that eat bugs.
2:01:08
Speaker 4: It's a Davidborough. I was wondering why I had this
2:01:10
Speaker 4: weird name.
2:01:11
Speaker 2: What's it named?
2:01:12
Speaker 3: Nephphth sattin Burrow.
2:01:18
Speaker 2: Attenborough picture plant montane species of carnivorous pitcher plant of
2:01:23
Speaker 2: the genus nepenthus. It's named after the celebrated broadcaster, a
2:01:28
Speaker 2: naturalist or David Attenborough, who's a keen enthusiast of the genus.
2:01:32
Speaker 2: So that's what it looks like down there, Isn't that crazy?
2:01:34
Speaker 2: They fall in there and die and it eats them.
2:01:38
Speaker 2: Look at it. It's like a fucking.
2:01:39
Speaker 1: Catcher for Look at it.
2:01:41
Speaker 2: It's a rat, decomposed rat that they pulled out of there.
2:01:44
Speaker 1: How's it not? How could it not get out of there?
2:01:47
Speaker 1: I want to know it. Probably maybe the insidetes has
2:01:49
Speaker 1: become very hard so they can't claw their way out,
2:01:51
Speaker 1: I guess.
2:01:52
Speaker 2: But it's fucking pretty Extraordinay, how gross is that? The
2:01:55
Speaker 2: little fucker he's got his head boked out like it's
2:01:57
Speaker 2: eating alive. At photo for the little ai.
2:02:01
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know, Like, if you watch
2:02:03
Speaker 1: animals consume other animals, it's never not nasty.
2:02:06
Speaker 2: Oh dude, it's rough.
2:02:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's rough, and they don't care. They'll just watch
2:02:09
Speaker 1: them scream. Like you ever seen a coyote on a rabbit.
2:02:12
Speaker 1: Rabbit scream as loud as any They don't care, No,
2:02:14
Speaker 1: they don't care. Rap it to shreds means nothing to them.
2:02:16
Speaker 1: But we're gonna worry about worry about eating the farm fresh.
2:02:21
Speaker 2: I just watched a video today about it with a
2:02:23
Speaker 2: bear eating another bear while it was alive, cannibalizing another
2:02:28
Speaker 2: bear while it's alive, because big bears, like the boares
2:02:31
Speaker 2: that will kill cubs and they'll eat them while they're alive.
2:02:34
Speaker 2: And this this was actually a grizzly eating a black
2:02:38
Speaker 2: bear and it was eating it while it was alive,
2:02:40
Speaker 2: and it was like trying to move around, just tearing
2:02:43
Speaker 2: chunks of it off.
2:02:45
Speaker 1: Nasty.
2:02:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I say when people say, you know,
2:02:48
Speaker 2: like they get upset at me that I hunt. I go.
2:02:51
Speaker 2: The way that elk is dying when I shoot it
2:02:54
Speaker 2: with a bow and arrow is infinitely better then the
2:02:57
Speaker 2: way it's gonna die when it's teeth, wear down, nothing thing,
2:03:00
Speaker 2: and then it gets like emaciated where it can escape,
2:03:03
Speaker 2: and then the coyotes get it, or a mountain lion
2:03:05
Speaker 2: gets it, or a bear gets it, or a wolf
2:03:08
Speaker 2: gets it like an arrow through the pump station. Is
2:03:13
Speaker 2: the best way to go. It's thirty seconds.
2:03:15
Speaker 1: It's gone, done, done, yeah, and it's dead.
2:03:17
Speaker 2: And then next thing you know, you're eating it. That's
2:03:20
Speaker 2: literally the best way. It's not gonna live forever and
2:03:23
Speaker 2: become an angel.
2:03:24
Speaker 1: No, it's not.
2:03:25
Speaker 2: They have like maybe.
2:03:27
Speaker 1: At disconnected from reality and just they aren't totally disconnected
2:03:31
Speaker 1: from the natural order of things.
2:03:33
Speaker 2: What's weird is they don't seem to mind animal on
2:03:35
Speaker 2: animal violence.
2:03:37
Speaker 1: You know, Oh no, I've I've debated. I've debated with
2:03:39
Speaker 1: vegans who have told me that their plan is to
2:03:43
Speaker 1: get rid of all of the predator animals, all of
2:03:47
Speaker 1: the predator animals. And my buddy of mine, he's a
2:03:52
Speaker 1: fellow debater, he calls it bear jail. He says, you're
2:03:55
Speaker 1: gonna say, you're gonna he says, he's gonna put them
2:03:58
Speaker 1: in bear jail. Is that is that what you're gonna do.
2:04:01
Speaker 1: They're gonna go to bear jail, and some of these
2:04:03
Speaker 1: vegans will say, they'll say, look, there needs to be
2:04:06
Speaker 1: animal courts where where they have attorneys who come in, Hey,
2:04:10
Speaker 1: you killed the rabbit. You gotta you know, you got
2:04:12
Speaker 1: to be euphanized. This type of thing. We want all
2:04:15
Speaker 1: the predators gone, all of them. Oh my god, I
2:04:18
Speaker 1: don't know what that would even look like to the eco.
2:04:21
Speaker 1: So that would be like a world ending.
2:04:23
Speaker 2: It would be amazing. What I just want to see
2:04:27
Speaker 2: the infrastructure, like, how are you?
2:04:30
Speaker 1: How are you? Like? Do you know how many wolves
2:04:32
Speaker 1: there are? Do you have many bears?
2:04:33
Speaker 2: There are doo many mountain lions there are, like you
2:04:35
Speaker 2: can't even keep a track of them. California had a
2:04:38
Speaker 2: different approach in California. You know, they have like the
2:04:41
Speaker 2: Department of Fishing Game California calls the Department of Fish
2:04:44
Speaker 2: and Wildlife, And they were kind of infiltrated by animal
2:04:50
Speaker 2: activists and that's how they've sort of morphed their policies
2:04:54
Speaker 2: in California. And so that's why they have a mountain
2:04:57
Speaker 2: lion problem. They don't want to admit they have a
2:04:59
Speaker 2: mountain lion problem, but they have a mountain lion problem.
2:05:01
Speaker 2: And one of the problems is they don't control the
2:05:03
Speaker 2: population of the mountain lions, and their idea is they
2:05:06
Speaker 2: want the animals to control each other. So instead of
2:05:09
Speaker 2: encouraging hunting, ideally they would like the mountain lions to
2:05:12
Speaker 2: get the deer down to a number where people can't
2:05:14
Speaker 2: hunt them ethically because their populations are in danger.
2:05:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you would have to have so many mountain
2:05:20
Speaker 1: lions to do it, and you do, yeah, that you
2:05:22
Speaker 1: end up with this overwhelming opposite problem. So here's the problem.
2:05:26
Speaker 2: In the San Francisco in the Bay area. Fifty percent
2:05:30
Speaker 2: of the diet of these mountain lions is pets, of
2:05:33
Speaker 2: course fifty percent. So when they keep catching these, they
2:05:37
Speaker 2: have these depredation tags. So if a cat pulls a
2:05:40
Speaker 2: dog out of a backyard, they find the cat, they'd
2:05:44
Speaker 2: euthanize it when they open it up. They always have
2:05:46
Speaker 2: to check and see what they're eating. And fifty percent
2:05:49
Speaker 2: of them are eating pets.
2:05:53
Speaker 1: That's the I think I told you when the dn
2:05:55
Speaker 1: R in Michigan, it's the same type of organization. Yeah,
2:05:58
Speaker 1: the department naturally, in order to control the deer population
2:06:03
Speaker 1: their infinite wisdom, they started importing Western coyotes, which was
2:06:06
Speaker 1: not a thing that you saw in the Midwest before,
2:06:11
Speaker 1: like you know, oh yeah, they imported them from out
2:06:14
Speaker 1: west hunts, and you know what they did the native hunting,
2:06:18
Speaker 1: there was never deer. It was always pheasant. Pheasant was
2:06:21
Speaker 1: what you went to the Midwest for. Pheasant hunting was
2:06:24
Speaker 1: the staple. Every farmer had a pheasant gun and they
2:06:26
Speaker 1: would walk the railroad tracks with their kids. Pheasants would
2:06:29
Speaker 1: pop up, boom done. Once they took the coyotes out there,
2:06:33
Speaker 1: guess what they didn't eat. They didn't eat the deer.
2:06:36
Speaker 1: They ate up all the pheasants. And then it got
2:06:41
Speaker 1: even worse. They started these the population of coyotes just
2:06:45
Speaker 1: blew out of control, and they started there's plenty of
2:06:49
Speaker 1: cottontail for them to eat, and there's plenty of rabbits
2:06:51
Speaker 1: for them to eat. Again, not doing a great job
2:06:53
Speaker 1: on controlling the deer population. These coyotes, they haven't all
2:06:57
Speaker 1: you can eat buffet with other things, including your cat,
2:07:00
Speaker 1: your cat, right, including your smaller pets, just like the
2:07:03
Speaker 1: Mountain lion issue. So what they finally did to try
2:07:07
Speaker 1: to get the deer population down was what everybody had
2:07:09
Speaker 1: suggested from the beginning. Just issue more tags and make
2:07:13
Speaker 1: the out of state tags cheaper and then people will
2:07:15
Speaker 1: come in. But you have all the animal rights that
2:07:18
Speaker 1: come out. You can't kill the deer, and the farmers
2:07:20
Speaker 1: are going nuts. They get nuisance tags. They'll be out
2:07:22
Speaker 1: there killing these deer all day, every day, right from
2:07:25
Speaker 1: their tractor. Because they have a nuisance tag. There's a
2:07:28
Speaker 1: deer bam done. Don't even think twice about it, summer, winter, whenever,
2:07:32
Speaker 1: just blast them because they have the permit to do it.
2:07:36
Speaker 1: They can't keep the population of these deer down, except
2:07:39
Speaker 1: now they have the additional population of all these coyotes.
2:07:44
Speaker 1: And so how did the Michiganders deal with that, Well,
2:07:46
Speaker 1: they made a game of it. So what they do
2:07:48
Speaker 1: is they get grant, They hop in the truck with Granddad,
2:07:51
Speaker 1: they have their dogs with GPS callers, and during the wintertime,
2:07:55
Speaker 1: after they're done filling their deer tags, they hunt coyotes
2:07:58
Speaker 1: with their dogs all throughout the winter. They're just thinning
2:08:02
Speaker 1: them out. Well, at least they allow that.
2:08:05
Speaker 2: At least they allow that because California, one of the
2:08:07
Speaker 2: things they did where their bear population has exploded because
2:08:10
Speaker 2: they stopped bear hunting with dog, which is the only
2:08:12
Speaker 2: way to get them either baiting or.
2:08:14
Speaker 1: Dog because don't you treat them?
2:08:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and the other way is baiting, and they
2:08:17
Speaker 2: allowed outlawed that as well. Yeah.
2:08:20
Speaker 1: Every time they bring it an animal to deal with
2:08:22
Speaker 1: another animal, they always.
2:08:23
Speaker 2: Fuck it up.
2:08:24
Speaker 1: Hawaii is one of the best ones. Remember, well they
2:08:26
Speaker 1: didn't they import all those cats to get the rats
2:08:29
Speaker 1: in New York and catch don't hunt rats. They only
2:08:32
Speaker 1: hut mice. So they ended up having this huge explosion
2:08:36
Speaker 1: of cats all over New York City.
2:08:37
Speaker 2: That's are too big, I mean rats rather ye, the cats.
2:08:40
Speaker 2: They're dangerous too. They'll fuck that cat up. Hawaii had
2:08:45
Speaker 2: a problem with rats, I guess, probably from ships, I
2:08:48
Speaker 2: don't know, but they were eating the sugar cane, so
2:08:50
Speaker 2: they brought in mongoose. The problem is mongoose are diurnal
2:08:57
Speaker 2: and the rats are nocturnal, so the mongoose never saw
2:09:02
Speaker 2: the rats, and the rats never saw the mongo So
2:09:05
Speaker 2: the mongoo started eating up all the ground nesting birds.
2:09:07
Speaker 2: And so this state bird of Hawaii got fucking decimated
2:09:13
Speaker 2: because it's a ground nesting bird. And so these fucking
2:09:16
Speaker 2: mongoos who are like bad motherfuckers.
2:09:19
Speaker 1: Man, they kill cobras, you know, they're just killing these
2:09:22
Speaker 1: birds like an office lady. Just like an office lady. Guy.
2:09:25
Speaker 1: I have this idea, Guys, we got to bring in
2:09:28
Speaker 1: the cats because then that'll get the rats. And someone
2:09:30
Speaker 1: else says, ah, that's great, and they just never consult
2:09:32
Speaker 1: anybody who knows anything about these animals at all.
2:09:35
Speaker 2: Well, I think everything was done in decades past where
2:09:38
Speaker 2: people are a lot more ignorant about the effect. And
2:09:41
Speaker 2: you know, Australia is a good example of that. Australia
2:09:44
Speaker 2: they brought in cats. I forget what they were dealing with,
2:09:46
Speaker 2: but it didn't work. They didn't kill whatever they want.
2:09:49
Speaker 2: Now they have a giant feral cat problem in Australia,
2:09:52
Speaker 2: to the point where bow hunting magazines in Australia they
2:09:55
Speaker 2: have fucking cats, And I'm like a guy holding a
2:09:57
Speaker 2: house cat up that he's shot with a bow and arrow,
2:10:00
Speaker 2: like it's a trophy. Like my friend Adam, he lives
2:10:03
Speaker 2: in Australia, and I was over there visiting him and
2:10:06
Speaker 2: he gave me some bow hunting magazines. I'm like, oh,
2:10:09
Speaker 2: I'll read these on the way home. So I'm on
2:10:11
Speaker 2: the plane on the way home, not even thinking, and
2:10:14
Speaker 2: I'm opening up this magazine and there's a fucking guy
2:10:16
Speaker 2: holding a cat, and I'm like, close a shuit real quick?
2:10:22
Speaker 1: Is this allowed? What the fuck the mountain?
2:10:26
Speaker 2: Like if you saw a puppy with a fucking arrow
2:10:28
Speaker 2: through its chest, you'd be like, they freak out. But
2:10:31
Speaker 2: that's how it is. Like over there, they have so
2:10:33
Speaker 2: many feral cats that there's like a bounty on cats.
2:10:37
Speaker 2: Like people make like fur coats out of cats. It's
2:10:39
Speaker 2: fucking disgusting.
2:10:40
Speaker 1: I would expect that the country who lost a war
2:10:42
Speaker 1: to the EMUs, they lost a war against their own
2:10:48
Speaker 1: emu population. They have a giant.
2:10:50
Speaker 2: Problem with invasive species over there. There's so many of them.
2:10:53
Speaker 2: There's the the water buffalo, the Asiatic water buffalo, the
2:10:56
Speaker 2: northern territories they have these enormous fucking buffaloes that are
2:11:01
Speaker 2: up there and no natural predators, and the guys just
2:11:05
Speaker 2: go up there to hunt.
2:11:05
Speaker 1: Them and that's the only way to thin them out.
2:11:08
Speaker 2: And you're still you're not gonna You're not gonna putten them.
2:11:11
Speaker 2: There's not enough guys, it's too far.
2:11:14
Speaker 1: My Australian buddy Jake, he has the drop bear joke.
2:11:17
Speaker 1: Have you heard the drop bear jokes?
2:11:18
Speaker 3: No?
2:11:18
Speaker 1: Oh, it's the funny if you get an Australian in
2:11:21
Speaker 1: a bar, right, somebody always brings this up, like, man,
2:11:25
Speaker 1: there's a lot of dangerous critters over there every time,
2:11:28
Speaker 1: and he'll be like, oh yeah, especially the drop bears.
2:11:31
Speaker 1: You know what's the drop Oh yeah, and he'll go
2:11:34
Speaker 1: into the whole story of the drop bear. And what
2:11:36
Speaker 1: the drop bear is is it's a bear that'll drop
2:11:38
Speaker 1: out of the tree on you and then it sexually
2:11:40
Speaker 1: assaults you. It's a real thing, right, And every time
2:11:43
Speaker 1: someone be really you see him going, he's just like,
2:11:48
Speaker 1: it's how it's how Australians mess with the Yanks. Basically,
2:11:51
Speaker 1: the drop bears. They're hardy people.
2:11:53
Speaker 2: They're used to crocodiles and fucking poisonous spiders and poisonous snakes,
2:11:58
Speaker 2: and especially those dudes that live out in the you know,
2:12:01
Speaker 2: in the bush as they said.
2:12:02
Speaker 1: Well, he says that the Aboriginals, he tells me all
2:12:04
Speaker 1: the stories the Aboriginals, when they like have their coming
2:12:07
Speaker 1: of age, they'll just buy warm beer and then they
2:12:09
Speaker 1: go out to the middle of the desert with warm
2:12:12
Speaker 1: beer and they'll just drink for weeks months, warm beer.
2:12:16
Speaker 1: That's what they spend their government checks on. Because a
2:12:18
Speaker 1: lot of that stuff is considered occupied land, right. The
2:12:22
Speaker 1: Australian government made deals with the Aboriginals to have a
2:12:26
Speaker 1: lot of that land. So they give them a percentage, right,
2:12:29
Speaker 1: they give them like monthly payments, kind of like what
2:12:31
Speaker 1: we do with the Native Americans here. And He's like,
2:12:34
Speaker 1: what they do is they take their whole government cheese check,
2:12:38
Speaker 1: fill an entire car with warm beer for their coming
2:12:41
Speaker 1: of age, go out to the middle of the desert
2:12:43
Speaker 1: and just drink for months. I'm like, man, that's rough.
2:12:48
Speaker 2: Do they have a similar situation where like Native Americans
2:12:53
Speaker 2: don't have genetically a history of alcohol use, and so
2:12:57
Speaker 2: alcohol impacted them different than it did the European Like
2:13:00
Speaker 2: they just they didn't have the enzymes.
2:13:02
Speaker 1: That's just that they have another problem. Have you ever
2:13:05
Speaker 1: seen the petrol song? The petrol song, Oh man, when
2:13:08
Speaker 1: I'm about to show you is going to make you
2:13:11
Speaker 1: laugh to death. There's a song which was made by
2:13:14
Speaker 1: the Australian government for the Aboriginals about how you shouldn't
2:13:19
Speaker 1: drink or sniff petrol gasoline from a can. I'm not kidding.
2:13:25
Speaker 1: You can pull it up right now. It's the gasoline song, right,
2:13:28
Speaker 1: it is the You're you just be prepared. You're gonna
2:13:32
Speaker 1: laugh yourself to death.
2:13:34
Speaker 2: Oh my god, here we go. Uh, don't be rama
2:13:41
Speaker 2: Rama by Warburton. Is this it?
2:13:45
Speaker 1: Put the headphones on.
2:13:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, sniff, don't sniff.
2:13:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:13:58
Speaker 2: Oh, step on the bottle to look at.
2:14:03
Speaker 5: Can stop says.
2:14:26
Speaker 1: You don't stick?
2:14:29
Speaker 2: Can you put your petrol on the car? It stays,
2:14:33
Speaker 2: it's messing with your brains?
2:14:41
Speaker 7: Holy ship, Wow, oh my pretty good though catchy song,
2:14:53
Speaker 7: catchy snuff, very catchy.
2:14:56
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. So that's when you have that and you
2:14:58
Speaker 2: think you're going to fix that proble album with a
2:15:00
Speaker 2: catchy song.
2:15:01
Speaker 1: No, no, and they have huge problems. He tells me
2:15:05
Speaker 1: stories about it all the time. He sent that over.
2:15:07
Speaker 1: He said, this song exists. No, it does in no
2:15:09
Speaker 1: way sends it over. Oh my god, it does exist.
2:15:14
Speaker 1: It's a real thing. It's such a problem for him. God,
2:15:18
Speaker 1: that's dark. Yeah, brutal. And that's the sort of addiction
2:15:22
Speaker 1: problems that are going on there. It's not just like
2:15:26
Speaker 1: people forget. It's not just the alcohol introduction. It's the
2:15:29
Speaker 1: introduction of all things which are addicting that begin. If
2:15:34
Speaker 1: your culture has no defense against it just sweeps right through.
2:15:37
Speaker 1: Very similar to the crack epidemic.
2:15:40
Speaker 2: Right, what was the defense. Well, it's also the accessibility.
2:15:43
Speaker 1: Right, Crack was cheaper, just like petrol. Yeah, oh, it's
2:15:50
Speaker 1: that that whole thing of giving them their land and
2:15:53
Speaker 1: then giving them money. Boy, that always turns out horrible.
2:15:55
Speaker 1: It's turned out horrible for us here. And then it's
2:15:57
Speaker 1: turned out the native population except the ones that own casinos, ballin.
2:16:02
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. You look into that though, and
2:16:05
Speaker 1: you find out guess what, Yeah, they don't really get
2:16:08
Speaker 1: that much in the way of proceeds from those casinos exactly.
2:16:11
Speaker 1: It turns out that white eye comes in and still
2:16:13
Speaker 1: gets most of the proceeds. Uh huh from those casino. Yep.
2:16:16
Speaker 2: Somebody comes in, bankrolls it and sets it up and
2:16:20
Speaker 2: they get a nice check and they don't have to
2:16:22
Speaker 2: work again. But that guy gets fucking stink and rich.
2:16:25
Speaker 2: And then also you've created a gambling problem, which I
2:16:29
Speaker 2: am of the belief that you have to have personal accountability.
2:16:32
Speaker 2: Like I don't mind Las Vegas. I don't mind it.
2:16:35
Speaker 2: I think if you want to go into the casino
2:16:37
Speaker 2: and like my friend Dana White is a fucking degenerate gambler,
2:16:41
Speaker 2: Like he plays blackjack for like one hundred thousand dollars
2:16:44
Speaker 2: a hand.
2:16:44
Speaker 1: It's nuts.
2:16:45
Speaker 2: I don't like it. I don't do it. I don't
2:16:47
Speaker 2: get it. But I feel like you should be able
2:16:50
Speaker 2: to do it if that's what you want to do. Sure,
2:16:52
Speaker 2: And then the argument is like people lose everything, and
2:16:54
Speaker 2: like true, also people lose everything drinking. I don't know
2:16:58
Speaker 2: what you want to do about that, but I think
2:16:59
Speaker 2: you should have personal accountability and you should if you're
2:17:02
Speaker 2: an alcoholic, definitely not drink. I don't know, like, at
2:17:05
Speaker 2: what point in time do we say you can't Because
2:17:08
Speaker 2: some people enjoy playing craps. They go to they look
2:17:11
Speaker 2: forward to going to Vegas and they want to play craps,
2:17:13
Speaker 2: Like what do we well?
2:17:15
Speaker 1: And overwhelmingly now people go, Okay, I'm gonna go to
2:17:18
Speaker 1: Vegas or I'm gonna go to Laughlin. I'm gonna go
2:17:20
Speaker 1: to a place like this. I'm bringing the exact amount
2:17:23
Speaker 1: of money that I can lose, and they just expect
2:17:26
Speaker 1: I just expect to lose. There are degenerate gamblers, there's
2:17:29
Speaker 1: no doubt. Yea, there's there's Yeah, there's tons of degenerate gamblers.
2:17:34
Speaker 1: That's true.
2:17:35
Speaker 2: My friend Dana is a weird one because he's a
2:17:36
Speaker 2: degenerate gambler that's insanely wealthy.
2:17:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's he's worth fucking ship piles of.
2:17:41
Speaker 2: Money and he's still gambling all the time.
2:17:43
Speaker 1: Like, uh, but like there's a thrill for it.
2:17:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, well so, but when you set up one of
2:17:49
Speaker 2: those casinos in a place that's never had a casino.
2:17:52
Speaker 2: At least Vegas is like established, right, But if you
2:17:55
Speaker 2: just like set up some new casino in a very
2:17:57
Speaker 2: poor area, che oh OKLAHOLMA arose to three point two
2:18:02
Speaker 2: to three billion. Oh Native gaming revenues in Oklahoma rose
2:18:05
Speaker 2: to three point two to three billion in twenty ten,
2:18:08
Speaker 2: representing forty four percent of all US casinos WHOA. Oklahoma
2:18:13
Speaker 2: surpassed Connecticut as second in the United States for gaming revenue.
2:18:17
Speaker 2: According to Alan Meister and economists with Nathan Associate's, Inc.
2:18:22
Speaker 2: Oklahoma has one hundred and thirteen tribal casinos WHOA, more
2:18:26
Speaker 2: than any other state in the US. Twenty fifteen report
2:18:29
Speaker 2: on US Gaming says Oklahoma has the most gaming machines.
2:18:32
Speaker 2: Those machines broose. That's the saddest thing. When you go
2:18:35
Speaker 2: to vegasye, someone just sitting there like a drone. Yeah,
2:18:38
Speaker 2: just pressing buttons.
2:18:39
Speaker 1: The old ladies with their have you ever seen the
2:18:41
Speaker 1: screen rubbers, they're they're hilarious. They'll rub the screen for luck. Yeah,
2:18:47
Speaker 1: that's just wild. And they play the penny slots. Penny
2:18:50
Speaker 1: slots one hundred lines at a time, so it's a
2:18:52
Speaker 1: buck of hand, but it's a penny slot. Oh, it's
2:18:55
Speaker 1: a penny slot. The Yeah, they're making out like bandage,
2:18:58
Speaker 1: but it's usually not actually the native tribes that are
2:19:00
Speaker 1: making out at all. Of course, yeah, they get just
2:19:03
Speaker 1: enough to shut up there you go.
2:19:06
Speaker 2: But it's just sad when you find out how much
2:19:08
Speaker 2: alcoholism and drug abuse exists those in those places. It's
2:19:11
Speaker 2: just and you think, like if you look at it
2:19:14
Speaker 2: from a genetic perspective, like.
2:19:16
Speaker 1: Firewater, that was always the thing.
2:19:18
Speaker 2: It was always the joke from the Western movies that
2:19:20
Speaker 2: the natives couldn't handle their firewater, so they didn't have
2:19:24
Speaker 2: a history of alcohol use. And all of a sudden,
2:19:26
Speaker 2: you've introduced something that allows them to just get pissed, drunk,
2:19:29
Speaker 2: fall asleep, and they don't have cultural traditions on how
2:19:33
Speaker 2: to manage it.
2:19:34
Speaker 1: Correctly and prediction at all.
2:19:36
Speaker 2: And there's also the genetics, Like some people have a
2:19:40
Speaker 2: genetic propensity for alcoholism, and also some people are better
2:19:46
Speaker 2: at processing alcohol. They have a genetic propensity for problem.
2:19:49
Speaker 2: It's like the.
2:19:49
Speaker 1: Whole thing is it's dark. You were telling me just
2:19:53
Speaker 1: before we came in here that you had seen Rachel
2:19:56
Speaker 1: debate that guy. Yes, yes, and you you had watched
2:20:01
Speaker 1: the thrashing, which I was telling you was in the
2:20:04
Speaker 1: front row when that happened. Yeah, and he was. That
2:20:07
Speaker 1: guy was just beyond upset. You know. Everybody was, everybody
2:20:13
Speaker 1: drafting him, and I was I was gonna I was
2:20:16
Speaker 1: gonna get your take on that. Like, what did you
2:20:18
Speaker 1: think after you had watched that? Did you feel bad
2:20:20
Speaker 1: for that guy or no?
2:20:21
Speaker 2: No, no, I never feel bad for someone that is
2:20:25
Speaker 2: And if that's what like, I don't feel bad for
2:20:27
Speaker 2: guys when they fight and they get kicked in the head.
2:20:29
Speaker 1: You know, I signed up for it.
2:20:30
Speaker 2: I don't like that people get injured in a fight.
2:20:32
Speaker 2: But you were trying to do that. He did it
2:20:35
Speaker 2: to you. That's what it is. It is what it is,
2:20:37
Speaker 2: you know, And it's just the weirdness is like telling
2:20:42
Speaker 2: her to make him a sandwich.
2:20:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that, Like, what are we doing here, like,
2:20:47
Speaker 1: are you you a misogynist?
2:20:49
Speaker 2: Now? Like you think a woman's what are you saying?
2:20:52
Speaker 4: Like?
2:20:53
Speaker 1: They don't think at all about.
2:20:55
Speaker 2: It's like the Checkers thing like we were talking about,
2:20:57
Speaker 2: like the ID for their.
2:20:58
Speaker 1: Grocery, terrible optics.
2:21:00
Speaker 2: What are you doing. It's also wanting to be right
2:21:04
Speaker 2: and to win versus like having a really well thought
2:21:07
Speaker 2: out perspective that you want to argue, you know, like
2:21:11
Speaker 2: or debate or just communicate. It's always this ego thing
2:21:16
Speaker 2: where people are trying to win and in doing so
2:21:18
Speaker 2: they fall into these like really obvious.
2:21:21
Speaker 1: Traps, easy ones too.
2:21:23
Speaker 2: That's one of the things that when we first talked
2:21:24
Speaker 2: about doing another podcast is I don't want to talk
2:21:26
Speaker 2: to you about because you know, you're very logical in
2:21:29
Speaker 2: your approach to these things, and so many people are
2:21:32
Speaker 2: so bad at being logical.
2:21:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know, Dave I did a debate, pretty
2:21:39
Speaker 1: famous debate with Dave Smith, and I know you know
2:21:42
Speaker 1: Dave and Dave's a friend of mine, and we became fringe.
2:21:46
Speaker 1: I love, Yeah, we became very He's what happened in
2:21:49
Speaker 1: the debate, Well, he got crushed badly.
2:21:51
Speaker 2: What was the debate over?
2:21:52
Speaker 1: The debate was well, it veered into his libertarian philosophy.
2:21:56
Speaker 1: I can hear him right now going, fucking I not
2:21:58
Speaker 1: fucking get crushed you want? He won't actually on this one,
2:22:01
Speaker 1: and this one very publicly acknowledged that this happened to him.
2:22:05
Speaker 1: But it was good.
2:22:06
Speaker 2: So it was about libertarianism.
2:22:07
Speaker 1: There was libertarians versus Christian ethics and how the intersection
2:22:11
Speaker 1: actually happens with authority. And he ended up having to
2:22:14
Speaker 1: agree with most of my positions. I'm a little bit
2:22:16
Speaker 1: more of a statist than he is. He's a libertarian.
2:22:20
Speaker 1: And so we had this and it was a good
2:22:21
Speaker 1: back and forth. It was a brutal debate, but it
2:22:23
Speaker 1: was a good back and forth. But when it was done,
2:22:26
Speaker 1: I think what he expected was that I was going
2:22:29
Speaker 1: to do the dunk on Dave Tour. I was going
2:22:32
Speaker 1: to go around Aha the opposite. In fact, I DMed
2:22:35
Speaker 1: him and said, look, I think that I can help
2:22:38
Speaker 1: shore your worldview up. So you're a libertarian, and here's
2:22:42
Speaker 1: some points that you missed, and I think I can
2:22:44
Speaker 1: help shore those up. And he said really. So I
2:22:46
Speaker 1: walked him through a bunch of those points and he
2:22:48
Speaker 1: still uses them to this day. That's cool, But the
2:22:50
Speaker 1: whole idea there is like I do want my worldview
2:22:54
Speaker 1: to win ultimately. That's true. And one of the reasons
2:22:56
Speaker 1: I do so many debates is because I do think
2:22:59
Speaker 1: that I'm speaking to the audience from my worldview. Why
2:23:02
Speaker 1: I think it's perhaps superior to this guy's or the
2:23:05
Speaker 1: things I'm advocating for better or worse. With Dave, he's
2:23:09
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, He's advocating his worldview. I think
2:23:13
Speaker 1: the difference there. The distinction was that he was surprised
2:23:15
Speaker 1: and he kind of asked me about it, and I said, look,
2:23:17
Speaker 1: the reason is is because you're a good debater and
2:23:21
Speaker 1: you've gotten better as time has gone on, and if
2:23:25
Speaker 1: you're going to represent your view, I want you to
2:23:28
Speaker 1: be the best at representing that view, because that's how
2:23:30
Speaker 1: you determine which worldview people end up going with. This
2:23:34
Speaker 1: is why so many people have moved towards Christianity and
2:23:37
Speaker 1: Christian ethics. Seeing the religious debates has a lot to
2:23:40
Speaker 1: do with that, with the various ideas in worldview being expanded,
2:23:46
Speaker 1: and then the kind of the graciousness even after the debate,
2:23:48
Speaker 1: of trying to help the other person with their view.
2:23:51
Speaker 2: That's very cool, and that would be nice. If most
2:23:54
Speaker 2: people use that framework to have discussions, they don't.
2:23:59
Speaker 1: They don't, No, they don't.
2:24:00
Speaker 2: It's just and again it's like it's a part of
2:24:02
Speaker 2: what we're talking about that there's this whole commodity of attention,
2:24:07
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of attention on dunking on people
2:24:09
Speaker 2: and shitting on people and being mean, and people love
2:24:13
Speaker 2: that stuff for whatever reason.
2:24:15
Speaker 1: That's true. Now, I'm not always that charitable when it
2:24:18
Speaker 1: comes to progressives or leftists, the people who I consider
2:24:22
Speaker 1: responsible for many of the most horrific things in society
2:24:27
Speaker 1: socially that we deal with. I'm not nearly as charitable
2:24:30
Speaker 1: to them. But this is because in my humble experience,
2:24:36
Speaker 1: they have not been very charitable to anybody. No anybody's views.
2:24:41
Speaker 2: It's a very hyper aggressive position and very prone to insults,
2:24:48
Speaker 2: and that it's normalized, like attacking people's normalized. The celebration
2:24:53
Speaker 2: of Charlie Kirk is a great example of like the
2:24:55
Speaker 2: cruelty that's normalized, right.
2:24:59
Speaker 1: And when you get down to the pillar of their ideology,
2:25:02
Speaker 1: a lot of them think, not only is this justified.
2:25:05
Speaker 1: I give you an example. There's a guy who was
2:25:07
Speaker 1: inside the twitch sphere who says, well, wouldn't you kill
2:25:11
Speaker 1: Hitler if you could before he became Hitler. That's his justification.
2:25:16
Speaker 1: And so you see many progressives who have this kind
2:25:19
Speaker 1: of justification, and that leads to a huge amount of
2:25:24
Speaker 1: political violence, which becomes normalized because they justify it through
2:25:28
Speaker 1: the lens of I'm stopping a monster. I've never thought
2:25:32
Speaker 1: these people see me as a human being. I don't
2:25:35
Speaker 1: think that they do. I think that they see me,
2:25:37
Speaker 1: most of them, at least the ones I debate with,
2:25:39
Speaker 1: as an actual monster. He's trying to take from a
2:25:44
Speaker 1: trying or destroy them or hurt them in some way.
2:25:47
Speaker 1: And so from my view, that's what it always seems
2:25:51
Speaker 1: like coming this direction, is that they don't even see
2:25:56
Speaker 1: me as a person. They see me as an idea
2:26:01
Speaker 1: or an ideology which is there to hurt.
2:26:03
Speaker 2: Them, right, that they have to attack and beat and win, right.
2:26:08
Speaker 2: And then of course they're in the echo chamber of
2:26:10
Speaker 2: the people that also support that ideology, and they're all
2:26:13
Speaker 2: like agreeing that this is okay, and that this is acceptable,
2:26:17
Speaker 2: and this violence is acceptable and all these different things. Yeah,
2:26:22
Speaker 2: it's really it's it's kind of daunting because you're just like,
2:26:26
Speaker 2: when does this dust settle. When when do people just
2:26:29
Speaker 2: like relax and start having actual conversations on both sides,
2:26:35
Speaker 2: Like when when do people just do what you and
2:26:38
Speaker 2: Dave did and just find out why a person thinks
2:26:43
Speaker 2: what they think and what the actual facts of what
2:26:46
Speaker 2: they're saying are and whether or not your worldview is
2:26:49
Speaker 2: distorted or compatible or compatible, you know, like Christian ethics
2:26:52
Speaker 2: living inside of the libertarianism, from my view, is way
2:26:56
Speaker 2: better than trying to make Christian ethics compatible with progressive
2:27:00
Speaker 2: erg And so if I have to pick between a
2:27:02
Speaker 2: guy governing like Mumdani or a guy who holds the
2:27:05
Speaker 2: ideology like Dave Smith, I'm picking Dave Smith's ideology, And.
2:27:11
Speaker 1: Those are the choices. That's how I view it. I
2:27:13
Speaker 1: view it as choices between ideology. Somebody's going to be
2:27:16
Speaker 1: in charge, somebody's going to be in charge of the
2:27:18
Speaker 1: state no matter what. Yeah, I'm going to try to
2:27:21
Speaker 1: pick the ideology that's closest to my own. If you're
2:27:25
Speaker 1: going to be in charge of the state, I definitely
2:27:28
Speaker 1: want you to at least be representing the values that
2:27:30
Speaker 1: I have while you're in charge of.
2:27:31
Speaker 2: It, and the values of being legitimately charitable and a
2:27:35
Speaker 2: pathway to redemption which doesn't exist as progressive, which is
2:27:38
Speaker 2: really a problem because they keep pushing the goalposts and
2:27:42
Speaker 2: eating their own to keep going further and further left
2:27:45
Speaker 2: and attacking people for not being left enough, and like
2:27:48
Speaker 2: you get cast out of the community, you get excommunicated
2:27:51
Speaker 2: for I mean, how many people were excommunicated during COVID
2:27:55
Speaker 2: for just not going along with the government's narrative on
2:27:58
Speaker 2: pharmaceutical drugs.
2:28:00
Speaker 1: Being injected in your body absence your consent. Many of
2:28:03
Speaker 1: them wanted COVID passports, remember that they wanted to inject
2:28:07
Speaker 1: the Jabi stabby into you. YouTube even censored opposition to
2:28:11
Speaker 1: it for a long time.
2:28:12
Speaker 2: I think there's a real problem with people that don't
2:28:14
Speaker 2: have an ethical framework or a moral framework that's just arbitrary.
2:28:18
Speaker 2: And they don't have a religious foundation. Yeah, Like that's
2:28:23
Speaker 2: where I always describe it as, like whether you believe
2:28:25
Speaker 2: in Christ or not, it's an awesome framework, like a
2:28:28
Speaker 2: scaffolding for being a good person. You could follow that
2:28:31
Speaker 2: guy's teachings, Like there's no flaws in it, like especially Jesus,
2:28:34
Speaker 2: Like it's not one thing to you point to, Like
2:28:37
Speaker 2: you know, there's a few guys in religion that you
2:28:40
Speaker 2: could point to and go, yeah, well he married a
2:28:42
Speaker 2: nine year old, like, hey, yeah, that seems a little fucked.
2:28:45
Speaker 2: Hey he said he could kill the infidels. That seems
2:28:47
Speaker 2: a little fucked With Jesus, there's none of.
2:28:50
Speaker 1: That, None of that. Not only that, it's interesting that
2:28:52
Speaker 1: you bring that up, the kind of foundational principles for Christians,
2:28:57
Speaker 1: the emulation of Christ. We accept that we're flawed, we
2:29:03
Speaker 1: accept that we sin, and we accept that the only
2:29:07
Speaker 1: pathway for us through redemption is to follow the teachings
2:29:11
Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ through Christian ethics. Right, that's what that's
2:29:14
Speaker 1: how we perceive things. So baked into that is not
2:29:17
Speaker 1: only redemption, it's not only the idea of salvation, but
2:29:20
Speaker 1: it gives you a value to move towards. And what's
2:29:24
Speaker 1: missing often from the progressive ideology, from the secutor ideology
2:29:29
Speaker 1: or the atheist ideology, how do you give a person
2:29:32
Speaker 1: a moral ought if you are the ultimate arbiter of
2:29:36
Speaker 1: all that is moral, because it just comes down to
2:29:38
Speaker 1: your preference. How do we determine who the ultimate arbiter
2:29:42
Speaker 1: now is? Well, it usually just comes down to you
2:29:45
Speaker 1: and whatever your preferences are. And so what are we
2:29:47
Speaker 1: moving towards exactly? How do we make it the determination
2:29:50
Speaker 1: that you're in error. You're not moving towards this greater value.
2:29:54
Speaker 2: What you do as you're establishing a new, non defined
2:29:56
Speaker 2: religion that could be moved and changed based on the
2:29:59
Speaker 2: wor yeah, at any given time and depending on who's
2:30:02
Speaker 2: the most radical and the most charismatic that's in charge
2:30:06
Speaker 2: of whatever that movement is at the time, eat the rich,
2:30:09
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
2:30:10
Speaker 1: Whatever micro cults? Yes, right, like the second have you
2:30:13
Speaker 1: seen the secutor humanists micro cult same thing there?
2:30:17
Speaker 2: Remember atheism plus yeah?
2:30:18
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, atheism plus secutor humanism is really interesting because
2:30:23
Speaker 1: and I've debated the most prominent secutor humanists in the world.
2:30:26
Speaker 1: Who's that well, I did Matt Dilla Hunty. I've done
2:30:29
Speaker 1: several secutor humanist debates. Matt Dilla Hunty is the funniest
2:30:33
Speaker 1: thing in the world. He rage quit in the first
2:30:35
Speaker 1: few minutes of the debate in my opening statement because
2:30:39
Speaker 1: I brought up this glaring contradiction in his worldview. I said,
2:30:42
Speaker 1: why should so he was dating a trans he's dating
2:30:45
Speaker 1: a trans person. He says he's not gay, right, So
2:30:48
Speaker 1: I'm not gay, but I'm dating a trans person. So
2:30:50
Speaker 1: I brought this up and I said, the way that
2:30:52
Speaker 1: we can assess truth claims, I can just point an
2:30:54
Speaker 1: easy one out of how we can assess that. Maybe
2:30:58
Speaker 1: this isn't a good way to evalue truth claims because
2:31:02
Speaker 1: he says he's in a non homosexual relationship with a
2:31:05
Speaker 1: trans woman and reconciles that by saying, no, that's a
2:31:09
Speaker 1: real woman. And I'm like, if we can't even distinguish
2:31:11
Speaker 1: what's real and what's true, how could he even Oh,
2:31:16
Speaker 1: he was so angry, he called me a bunch of names,
2:31:19
Speaker 1: got up and rage quit for me pointing out this
2:31:21
Speaker 1: glaring contradiction in his ideology, and it basically ruined his career.
2:31:25
Speaker 1: But he did it to himself because he should just
2:31:28
Speaker 1: stayed and done the debate. And here's why I think this,
2:31:30
Speaker 1: But instead he just lost it. He lost it, got up,
2:31:34
Speaker 1: undignified through the mic, called me a bunch of names,
2:31:38
Speaker 1: walked out and anyway, I said, you and your husband
2:31:41
Speaker 1: have a wonderful evening, and he just that was it
2:31:44
Speaker 1: for him on his way out. But the problem with
2:31:47
Speaker 1: this ideology is it's changed. So he was reading from
2:31:51
Speaker 1: the secondar Human Manifesto three, so it's already had, you know,
2:31:55
Speaker 1: it's on its third revision now. And it started initially
2:31:59
Speaker 1: as kind of more religious dogma, and then it took
2:32:03
Speaker 1: on a non religious dogma. They called it Secutor. Who's
2:32:06
Speaker 1: creating the Canon? Ugh? Weel, there was a big meeting
2:32:10
Speaker 1: in Amsterdam. Not kidding, I'm not kidding. It's the Amsterdam
2:32:15
Speaker 1: Secutor Humanist Manifesto. And essentially it just comes down to
2:32:22
Speaker 1: these arbitrary preferences around we're just kind of four things
2:32:26
Speaker 1: that make you feel good and kind of against things
2:32:28
Speaker 1: that make us not feel so good. Now that's the
2:32:31
Speaker 1: biggest oversimplification in the world. But it really does just
2:32:34
Speaker 1: kind of reduce to that. And so one of the
2:32:36
Speaker 1: ways that you can always kind of endlessly beat these
2:32:39
Speaker 1: guys about the head and the shoulders with their own
2:32:40
Speaker 1: ideology is just point this out. Who's in charge of
2:32:43
Speaker 1: this anyway, Like, which one of you gets to make
2:32:47
Speaker 1: this determination that this is the ought that I should
2:32:51
Speaker 1: follow based on anything other than your preferences? And the
2:32:54
Speaker 1: idea always is, well, it wouldn't just be my preference,
2:32:57
Speaker 1: it'd be the preference of many people. But don't those change. Well, yeah, well,
2:33:02
Speaker 1: then what you're saying is that what you consider moral today,
2:33:05
Speaker 1: you're not going to consider moral tomorrow. That tells me
2:33:09
Speaker 1: that you're saying to me, you don't know what is
2:33:11
Speaker 1: moral and what is not. The Christian has the opposite approach.
2:33:15
Speaker 1: They're saying, what was moral yesterday is still moral today,
2:33:19
Speaker 1: and what's still moral today is still what's going to
2:33:22
Speaker 1: be moral a thousand years from now, two thousand years
2:33:25
Speaker 1: from now, because that's the teaching they're basing it on. Yeah,
2:33:30
Speaker 1: it's it's really odd.
2:33:31
Speaker 2: If anybody it's like Wikipedia, like anybody can contribute.
2:33:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, or edit. You can just edit it whenever you
2:33:38
Speaker 1: want to thing feel bad.
2:33:40
Speaker 2: Edit it's way where it's the Wikipedia, because it's not
2:33:42
Speaker 2: even edit like you could actually add to the canon.
2:33:46
Speaker 1: Oh yeah right. You know the Book of Eugene, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
2:33:52
Speaker 1: Book of Eugene, and this is Eugene's new prophetic way forward.
2:33:56
Speaker 1: That is that is one hundred percent true, and there
2:33:58
Speaker 1: are actual failsafs in the Bible that prevent people from
2:34:02
Speaker 1: writing new Bibles. Right. The entirety of the message of
2:34:06
Speaker 1: Christ in and of itself. This is what Christian ethics
2:34:11
Speaker 1: is based on. The teachings of Jesus Christ. The teachings
2:34:13
Speaker 1: of the scriptures. But it always gives us a thing
2:34:16
Speaker 1: to move towards, and that is why it creates I think,
2:34:21
Speaker 1: better societies in general, better societies overall, because people always go,
2:34:25
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm supposed to be moving towards this idea.
2:34:28
Speaker 2: If you really do follow it, it makes nice people
2:34:31
Speaker 2: like the people that I know that are like genuine
2:34:33
Speaker 2: real Christians are some of the nicest people I know.
2:34:35
Speaker 2: Of course, they're so kind, almost as nice as the Mormons.
2:34:39
Speaker 1: Right, the more well, the Mormon thing the nicest, because
2:34:45
Speaker 1: it's like, if you have to be in a cult,
2:34:47
Speaker 1: like you said, boy, that's got to be the one.
2:34:49
Speaker 2: It's the great one. You get a bunch of wives,
2:34:50
Speaker 2: everyone's cool, and.
2:34:51
Speaker 1: Do you know that they're the richest. They're richer than
2:34:54
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Much richer, Wow, much richer. I would
2:34:59
Speaker 1: never guessed neither until somebody told me that there's no way,
2:35:03
Speaker 1: yes there is.
2:35:04
Speaker 2: There's so many Catholics. Aren't there way more Catholics.
2:35:06
Speaker 1: Way more? But it's the tithing. So Mormons are really
2:35:11
Speaker 1: they practice nepotism like no other I mean, and that
2:35:16
Speaker 1: I mean they just overwhelmingly practices in their communities, and
2:35:19
Speaker 1: so with the tithing business, tithing, some of these businesses
2:35:22
Speaker 1: will tie the Mormon Church sixty seventy percent, and then
2:35:25
Speaker 1: they get awarded various contracts from their friends and things
2:35:28
Speaker 1: like this, and the church has bookoo dollars.
2:35:33
Speaker 2: Damn. What a nice, nice setup.
2:35:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a nice it's a pretty nice setup for them.
2:35:37
Speaker 1: And then they run their own politicians inside their own
2:35:40
Speaker 1: states of course, yeah, which then enforces their lots. Like
2:35:44
Speaker 1: they kind of figured a lot of this out.
2:35:46
Speaker 2: As long as they're nice whatever, if they could push
2:35:49
Speaker 2: that niceness out to everybody else, like, you know what,
2:35:53
Speaker 2: why what do you got here, Jeremy, it does its
2:35:56
Speaker 2: official Mormonism is the richest religion in the world.
2:36:00
Speaker 3: I just I mean Catholicism as a whole, uh, somewhere
2:36:04
Speaker 3: in the two point to three trillion dollar.
2:36:07
Speaker 2: Oh, because there's a bunch of different Catholic churches, so
2:36:09
Speaker 2: it is, I see.
2:36:10
Speaker 1: But the church, but the single richest church is yeah,
2:36:14
Speaker 1: the Church of Jesus Christ latterday Saints.
2:36:16
Speaker 2: So Mormons, Wow, they have one hundred billion dollars. Everybody else, Yeah,
2:36:24
Speaker 2: the Vatican is only thirty billion. I would have never
2:36:27
Speaker 2: guessed they were that much richer than the Vatic is not.
2:36:30
Speaker 4: That's not correct.
2:36:31
Speaker 2: That's of it.
2:36:31
Speaker 4: That does not correct. What do you mean, I'm just
2:36:33
Speaker 4: saying it's not correct?
2:36:36
Speaker 3: Oh so well, also it's a Wikipedia post on Reddit.
2:36:40
Speaker 4: That's not the best.
2:36:42
Speaker 2: Oh you just think this is just not accurate in general? Yeah,
2:36:44
Speaker 2: whatever Holy See is No, that's the Vatican.
2:36:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be no.
2:36:47
Speaker 3: But I mean that's they got way more than thirty
2:36:48
Speaker 3: billion dollars and just that's.
2:36:50
Speaker 2: A lot of money, dude. And just art, I wonder, right,
2:36:54
Speaker 2: that's a good point.
2:36:55
Speaker 4: I said, I just looked it up.
2:36:56
Speaker 3: It's worth three trillion dollars, it says on this other post.
2:37:00
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So just the art I'm just or the
2:37:04
Speaker 2: buildings and the Vatican itself.
2:37:06
Speaker 4: With getting into the weeds of it.
2:37:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, as one whole church and you tah, yes, comparatively
2:37:11
Speaker 3: to the one church in Texas.
2:37:13
Speaker 2: So were they just basing it on their assets?
2:37:15
Speaker 1: Is that what it is?
2:37:16
Speaker 3: Also it's it was comparing it to like per person,
2:37:20
Speaker 3: per look, average Catholics worth sixty seven thousand dollars versus
2:37:28
Speaker 3: one point seven million million.
2:37:30
Speaker 2: The average Mormon is worth one point seven million.
2:37:33
Speaker 3: And then also there were Catholic. There's way more Catholics,
2:37:36
Speaker 3: like in Africa.
2:37:37
Speaker 1: That in South America especially, right, but.
2:37:40
Speaker 2: That is crazy. The average Mormon's worth one point seven million.
2:37:44
Speaker 3: That's also there probably their stat yeah, at least probably
2:37:49
Speaker 3: like yo, bro join us.
2:37:50
Speaker 4: That's what scientology does, right.
2:37:52
Speaker 2: Oh, that was a big thing with scientology and Hollywood.
2:37:55
Speaker 2: In Hollywood when I first moved there in nineteen ninety four,
2:37:58
Speaker 2: there was a bunch of people that were doing really
2:38:00
Speaker 2: well who were scientologists, and there was this this sort
2:38:04
Speaker 2: of push that if you joined Scientology, they take care
2:38:07
Speaker 2: of you and you get hooked up.
2:38:09
Speaker 1: That is really a wide berth. It's between three hundred
2:38:12
Speaker 1: billion and two.
2:38:16
Speaker 2: It's almost like ill Omar's countcount.
2:38:21
Speaker 3: The other day that someone just said, like room didn't
2:38:22
Speaker 3: go away, it just became the Catholic Church.
2:38:24
Speaker 4: And that's why you.
2:38:25
Speaker 2: Know, right right right, have you been to the Vatican? Oh,
2:38:28
Speaker 2: my god, the art is insane, It's insane. I went
2:38:32
Speaker 2: on a tour with this guy who was a professor
2:38:34
Speaker 2: from France. It was really cool. He was really smart.
2:38:37
Speaker 2: It was a very interesting tour. You could hire a
2:38:39
Speaker 2: guy and this guy was a professor and in the
2:38:42
Speaker 2: summer he would you know, give these tours and if
2:38:45
Speaker 2: you were enthusiastic about it, he was awesome. And I
2:38:48
Speaker 2: was like really really into it, so to ask him
2:38:51
Speaker 2: all these questions and he kept explaining in depth to me,
2:38:54
Speaker 2: and like that.
2:38:55
Speaker 1: You just never run out of art. You get so
2:38:59
Speaker 1: much like this is crazy.
2:39:02
Speaker 2: You keep going into new rooms and new fucking new auditoriums,
2:39:06
Speaker 2: and then you're in like Saint Peter's Basilica, just not alone.
2:39:10
Speaker 2: You're like what what?
2:39:12
Speaker 1: This is crazy? And it's all worth a fortune.
2:39:16
Speaker 2: It's so big and so majestic that if you didn't
2:39:19
Speaker 2: believe in God and you went there, you'd be like, okay,
2:39:21
Speaker 2: maybe they might know something like how the fuck did
2:39:23
Speaker 2: you do this? Like it's so majestic that it almost
2:39:26
Speaker 2: changes your perception of what's possible.
2:39:28
Speaker 1: You think they got the chronovisor in there the chronovisor
2:39:31
Speaker 1: the Vatican cronavisor what is that that's supposedly this is
2:39:36
Speaker 1: the conspiracy stuff, right, getting into the conspiracy stuff. Supposedly
2:39:40
Speaker 1: the Vatican is sitting on something called the chronovisor which
2:39:44
Speaker 1: tells them the future, and it was invented I don't
2:39:47
Speaker 1: know how many hundreds of years ago but you put
2:39:48
Speaker 1: on the coronavisor and it shows you the future.
2:39:52
Speaker 2: Yes, no, yes, oh my god, where is the arrow
2:39:58
Speaker 2: is pointing to?
2:39:59
Speaker 4: Like would be like Jesus or something like that.
2:40:01
Speaker 2: I don't understand.
2:40:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, they put yeah, you put it.
2:40:04
Speaker 1: You put it on, and it will show you. It
2:40:07
Speaker 1: can show you different spots in time or something like this.
2:40:12
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I've I'm really interested in the Ark
2:40:16
Speaker 2: of the Covenant that's supposedly in Ethiopia. You know, have
2:40:19
Speaker 2: you ever heard Graham Hancock talk about that? No, it's
2:40:22
Speaker 2: really interesting. So the Ethiopian Bible has a lot of
2:40:29
Speaker 2: like the Book of Enoch in it, and it's a
2:40:32
Speaker 2: really old version.
2:40:33
Speaker 1: They don't consider it Dutero canon, they consider it canon. Yeah.
2:40:39
Speaker 1: So the Ethiopian Church is not actually I don't believe
2:40:43
Speaker 1: it's actually in a communion with the Orthodox Church, and
2:40:47
Speaker 1: it's on its own along with a couple others. But
2:40:50
Speaker 1: they do have more books in their Bible than the
2:40:53
Speaker 1: Orthodox Church does in the Catholic Church.
2:40:56
Speaker 2: And supposedly they're guarding the Ark of the Covenant, and
2:41:00
Speaker 2: these people that are assigned to be a guardian of
2:41:05
Speaker 2: this thing, they can only do it for a couple
2:41:06
Speaker 2: of years and they develop cataracts, and he spoke to
2:41:10
Speaker 2: these people from the blinding light from whatever the fuck
2:41:13
Speaker 2: it is, like whatever it is, it might be radiation.
2:41:16
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what it is. But apparently the
2:41:19
Speaker 2: lure is that it's this one particular church. It's very
2:41:22
Speaker 2: old church in Ethiopia, and there is an area where
2:41:26
Speaker 2: they are guarding the ark of the Covenant and they
2:41:29
Speaker 2: have and the people that are supposed to be in
2:41:30
Speaker 2: the room with it. They all can only do it
2:41:33
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and then they get horribly.
2:41:35
Speaker 1: Sick, and then they have to switch them out and
2:41:37
Speaker 1: they get cataracts.
2:41:38
Speaker 2: Like this, documented cataracts from all these guys who go
2:41:43
Speaker 2: to the mean maybe it's the placebo effect they think
2:41:45
Speaker 2: they're gonna be. I don't know, but I highly doubt it.
2:41:49
Speaker 2: It sounds more likely you've got some sort of a
2:41:50
Speaker 2: crazy artifact that might be ancient technology.
2:41:53
Speaker 1: You have the same thing in Israel over Jesus Is too.
2:41:59
Speaker 4: I just read the article.
2:42:00
Speaker 3: This is like it says a purported photo.
2:42:02
Speaker 1: It's Christal clear, that's clear than whatever.
2:42:05
Speaker 2: His name is, Tyler Robinson.
2:42:07
Speaker 1: Right right, that's in four case.
2:42:10
Speaker 3: That he had the ability to go witness these events.
2:42:13
Speaker 3: He witnessed like tons of stuff. And then when he died,
2:42:16
Speaker 3: it says that the pope hits that nobody could.
2:42:17
Speaker 1: Ever, nobody could ever use very convenient.
2:42:21
Speaker 2: Now convenient.
2:42:22
Speaker 1: But yeah. Another another big miracle that's like that is
2:42:26
Speaker 1: over the tomb of Jesus Christ sits the Orthodox Church
2:42:29
Speaker 1: in Israel. Now that's true, right, that is in fact
2:42:33
Speaker 1: the case that there is an Orthodox Church. Christian Church
2:42:35
Speaker 1: is above the two. Wow. And every year, I think
2:42:38
Speaker 1: it's every year they have the miracle of the Holy Sepulcher.
2:42:41
Speaker 1: I think I'm pronouncing that right, sepulcher. And what they
2:42:44
Speaker 1: do is they use flame and emulate themselves in this
2:42:47
Speaker 1: holy flame and they're burning, they're on fire and none
2:42:49
Speaker 1: of them burned. What, yeah, how do they do that?
2:42:54
Speaker 1: Nobody knows.
2:42:55
Speaker 2: But there is just one small sect of Christian No.
2:42:58
Speaker 1: No, this is the it's the Orthodox Church. People come
2:43:02
Speaker 1: from miles around.
2:43:04
Speaker 2: The people that light themselves on fire.
2:43:05
Speaker 1: These are people who are in the church who are
2:43:07
Speaker 1: specially selected to basically emulate you know, they set themselves
2:43:12
Speaker 1: on fire with the holy flame from torches and apparently
2:43:17
Speaker 1: this is what I'm told they've had people go and
2:43:20
Speaker 1: investigate and they can't figure out how exactly this is
2:43:23
Speaker 1: being done, but they're completely on fire and they don't
2:43:26
Speaker 1: get hurt at all.
2:43:27
Speaker 2: Jamie, pull that up.
2:43:30
Speaker 1: Is there a video that.
2:43:31
Speaker 3: The Greek television like five candles and white phosphorus. The
2:43:36
Speaker 3: candles spontaneously ignited for approximately ten minutes due to the
2:43:40
Speaker 3: self ignition properties of white phosphorus when in contact with
2:43:44
Speaker 3: the air. According to the website, it says that phosphorus
2:43:47
Speaker 3: is dissolved in an appropriate organic solvent, self ignition is
2:43:50
Speaker 3: delayed until the solvent is completely evaporated. Pete experiments. Sure,
2:43:53
Speaker 3: the ignition can be delayed for half an hour and
2:43:55
Speaker 3: more depending on the density of the solution.
2:43:58
Speaker 2: How does it stop them from catching fire though and
2:44:00
Speaker 2: dying the same way?
2:44:02
Speaker 4: That's probably like the you know the people put on
2:44:06
Speaker 4: to make movies.
2:44:07
Speaker 2: You know, he's a skeptic, this motherfucker. He's always ruining
2:44:11
Speaker 2: everything with that logic.
2:44:13
Speaker 1: I think the skepticism is great if people actually practice
2:44:16
Speaker 1: the real philosophical tradition of skepticism, which is you're supposed
2:44:20
Speaker 1: to also be skeptical of your view, so the real skeptics.
2:44:24
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this debate that I listened to that
2:44:27
Speaker 1: it always stuck with me for years. It was with
2:44:29
Speaker 1: a guy named Jay Dyer and that same guy, Matt
2:44:31
Speaker 1: Dilla Hunting, and they were debating.
2:44:33
Speaker 2: And oh, sorry, go ahead, they were debating.
2:44:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were debating, and he said that the guy
2:44:40
Speaker 1: Dilla hunt he said, well, I'm a skeptic, and Jay said, no,
2:44:43
Speaker 1: you're not. Here's the actual philosophy of skepticism, and it
2:44:47
Speaker 1: always starts with you. Your view is what you apply
2:44:50
Speaker 1: skepticism to first, long before you ever apply it to
2:44:54
Speaker 1: any other. And the problem with people who did describe
2:44:57
Speaker 1: themselves now as skeptics, I'm a skeptic, they actually aren't
2:45:00
Speaker 1: really following skepticism. They're skeptical of your view, that doesn't
2:45:05
Speaker 1: mean that they're skeptical of their own. And it's supposed
2:45:07
Speaker 1: to start internally. That's what made skepticism kind of something
2:45:11
Speaker 1: that spread widely, was that it was a way for
2:45:13
Speaker 1: people to reject parts of their own worldview that didn't fit.
2:45:18
Speaker 1: They didn't match, they weren't coherent, they didn't make much sense.
2:45:22
Speaker 1: And so most of the time I hear skepticism, the
2:45:26
Speaker 1: person's not actually following the philosophy of skepticism, they're not
2:45:30
Speaker 1: applying it to their view. First.
2:45:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of lazy skepticism too, where they
2:45:34
Speaker 2: didn't outright deny the existence of conspiracies, which is just
2:45:40
Speaker 2: fucking ludicrous. It's like you're just you're playing a very
2:45:45
Speaker 2: You're in a very rigid corridor of ideas you're only
2:45:49
Speaker 2: allowed to ask ridiculous.
2:45:50
Speaker 1: Not only that, the US government has thousands of laws
2:45:54
Speaker 1: on the books about conspiracy, so it's like our government
2:45:57
Speaker 1: seems to believe in them because there's conspiracy to commit racketeering,
2:46:00
Speaker 1: conspiracy to murder, conspiracy to commit theft, conspiracy to commit wirefraud. Like,
2:46:05
Speaker 1: they clearly believe that there's a lot of conspiracies going
2:46:07
Speaker 1: on and definitely prosecute people for conspiracies all the time.
2:46:11
Speaker 1: But somehow when it comes to the skeptic mindset of conspirat, Nope,
2:46:15
Speaker 1: that's all tinfoiler.
2:46:16
Speaker 2: It's a lazy perspective. And it's also a perspective that
2:46:19
Speaker 2: falls in line with what we were talking about before,
2:46:21
Speaker 2: where you take a lot of legitimate conspiracies and you
2:46:24
Speaker 2: add a bunch of bullshit to it to make it
2:46:26
Speaker 2: seem completely ludicrous. And then the whole thing can be
2:46:29
Speaker 2: thrown out food. It's like, it's so obvious that that's
2:46:32
Speaker 2: a that's a ploy. Did you find anybody catching fire?
2:46:37
Speaker 3: The first yeah, I was getting intel was like, well,
2:46:38
Speaker 3: they're not really, They're like just dancing their hands over
2:46:41
Speaker 3: the fire like it wouldn't catch anybody on fire technically
2:46:44
Speaker 3: because they're not. They're not lighting all these guys are
2:46:46
Speaker 3: fires like touching this.
2:46:47
Speaker 1: These guys don't look like press putting their hands through it.
2:46:50
Speaker 2: Oh, so they're faking it. So the few people are
2:46:52
Speaker 2: faking it. Oh, these guys lighting his beard on fire.
2:46:55
Speaker 3: There was a lady that at the end of one
2:46:56
Speaker 3: of these videos she held a piece of paper over it,
2:46:58
Speaker 3: and it wasn't I mean.
2:47:00
Speaker 2: Well is this stuff like gregular fire?
2:47:02
Speaker 3: But that's where I was into the white phosphor saying,
2:47:05
Speaker 3: I said, after thirty minutes, it will start acting as
2:47:08
Speaker 3: you expected to.
2:47:09
Speaker 2: Look at all, it seems like everybody should be on fire.
2:47:12
Speaker 2: How odd.
2:47:13
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a it's a long standing tradition, like
2:47:17
Speaker 3: she's wiping it on her forehead or something.
2:47:19
Speaker 1: Huge tradition there. They call it. The miracle.
2:47:22
Speaker 2: Is another tradition of America called I Gotta take a peek.
2:47:24
Speaker 2: So let's wrap this up. It was really fun Matt
2:47:29
Speaker 2: hanging out with you.
2:47:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:47:30
Speaker 2: I enjoyed.
2:47:30
Speaker 1: We went over a lot today, Yeah, a lot, and
2:47:33
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it very much.
2:47:34
Speaker 2: Thank Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Good night,