Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 04 - Marc De Garidel, CEO Abivax & Chairman Ipsen

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Episode 04 - Marc De Garidel, CEO Abivax & Chairman Ipsen · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:05
  Welcome to the Bio Hub. Today I have a guest who needs
• 0:08
  no introduction, but I'll do it anyway. 40 years of experience
• 0:12
  across biotech and pharma. 6 years as CEO of Ipson, where he
• 0:16
  currently serves as Chairman. He led the successful sale of
• 0:19
  Sinkhole Pharma for $1.8 billion to AstraZeneca and the sale of
• 0:24
  Corvidia to Novo Nordis for $2.1 billion.
• 0:27
  Now he serves as the CEO of ABI Vax, who just completed the
• 0:30
  largest ever NASDAQ IPO for a French biotech.
• 0:34
  Such a pleasure to introduce Mark the Garridal.
• 0:37
  How are you, Mark? I'm.
• 0:39
  Good. Thanks Max for inviting me.
• 0:42
  No, it's an absolute pleasure, honestly an an honour really is.
• 0:46
  And we've had, we've had some good guests so far, but yeah,
• 0:49
  really a pleasure to have you and yeah, let's, let's just kick
• 0:54
  things off. So you've obviously been
• 0:57
  incredibly successful throughout your career.
• 1:00
  What was the initial inspiration for you to get into biotechs on
• 1:03
  the world? I would say it was more, you
• 1:07
  know, an accident I would say because you know I was doing my
• 1:11
  graduate studies an MBA in the US when at the end of the the
• 1:15
  program I was interviewed by a number of companies, actually a
• 1:18
  number of them were pharma companies.
• 1:20
  And as you know, I got interviewed, I got into the
• 1:24
  excitement of, you know, the, the developing new drugs, trying
• 1:28
  to make a difference in patients life and having also, you know,
• 1:33
  a look at essentially you know, global business.
• 1:35
  Because you know, when I was really young I did a lot of
• 1:38
  travelling around the world. I was probably a curious guy and
• 1:43
  so I thought, you know, drugs are good for everyone.
• 1:46
  So it's probably really truly international business.
• 1:48
  So I'll get exposed to different countries.
• 1:50
  So I thought it's good and then probably my mother actually was
• 1:53
  a nurse. So probably a bit of the genes
• 1:57
  you know came back to say already doing good things for
• 2:01
  patients is, is, is, is of value to society.
• 2:04
  So I think you know that's that was the background.
• 2:09
  Yeah. So, so you're interviewing for
• 2:11
  overalls as well in different industries and then just
• 2:13
  happened to to fall into to this industry?
• 2:17
  Yes, absolutely. Exactly.
• 2:19
  Yeah. Initially, you know, I was an
• 2:20
  engineer and I realized that the civil engineer, I realized that
• 2:25
  probably if I were to build bridges, it would collapse.
• 2:28
  So the interest of the interest of mankind, it would be good to
• 2:35
  not not to pursue, you know, engineering in in, in practice.
• 2:38
  So yeah, that. Makes sense.
• 2:48
  I think that that leads nicely to the next question.
• 2:51
  What were the most significant challenges and achievements
• 2:53
  during your six years as CEO of Epson?
• 2:56
  And what led you to making the decision to step down as CEO?
• 3:01
  Yeah. So I think you know talking
• 3:03
  about the challenges initially to me there were two kind of
• 3:05
  challenges, one was related to the business and two the fact
• 3:09
  that there was a new CEO. So in terms of the business, you
• 3:12
  know it's in late 2010 when I joined had a major set back for
• 3:17
  drug at GLP One actually you know the the class that now is
• 3:21
  becoming so successful with both Lily and and and Novo but so the
• 3:28
  the tribe was being developed with Rush, the phase three
• 3:31
  failed and it's in stock was you know divided by two.
• 3:37
  So that's one I think one of the reason why they wanted to to get
• 3:41
  a a new CEO but in addition you know it's a legacy business in
• 3:46
  the primary care arena which growth also was slowing down
• 3:52
  significantly. It was providing a lot of cash
• 3:55
  but not not enough growth. And then on specialist side, the
• 3:59
  drugs that were sold by Ipsan were actually good drugs.
• 4:03
  The probably were under invested.
• 4:04
  So there were you know multiple challenges.
• 4:08
  In addition, the US business was not good.
• 4:10
  There were two acquisitions being made to try to compensate
• 4:13
  for the, you know the erosion of the primary care business that
• 4:18
  didn't go well. So honestly there were also
• 4:21
  issues but but you know there were some good fundamental drugs
• 4:26
  that I thought could be further developed.
• 4:29
  So that was I think the part of the challenges.
• 4:31
  But then you know the next thing was I was a new CEO.
• 4:34
  And you know when you become a new CEO, you know when you
• 4:39
  haven't done it before even though you think you're you're
• 4:42
  prepared, you know you have to learn also as part of this
• 4:45
  process. And you know I think the
• 4:47
  combination of the two LED for me to probably first couple of
• 4:51
  years of you know of serious challenges.
• 4:55
  But I think directionally what I was able to do is I was able to
• 4:59
  you know sort of simplify the company.
• 5:03
  You know, I'm big advocate for my engine days on focus, focus
• 5:07
  and speed, the two combined. So I think there's a long term
• 5:11
  strategy I think was actually I believe appreciated by by by
• 5:15
  Wall Street. And then there was more question
• 5:18
  on how how fast we would deliver and how we would resolve you
• 5:24
  know the US issues with the losses.
• 5:26
  And you know then I think partly I made the right bet on the on
• 5:31
  the leader molecule called symmetridine which was already
• 5:35
  commercialized by by Ibsen for essentially you know an
• 5:39
  indication on the symptoms of neuroendocrine tumors.
• 5:42
  And luckily in 2014, we had the outcome of a great trial which
• 5:49
  showed that the drug could slow down the progression of disease
• 5:53
  by actually more than 50%. So as a result, we're able to
• 5:57
  prepare a launch in the United States to actually relocate the
• 6:02
  subsidiary from the West Coast to the East Coast and and LED
• 6:06
  this drug to become actually a blockbuster drug, which for a
• 6:10
  mid size company you know is pretty exceptional.
• 6:12
  There are not not so many blockbuster drugs that have been
• 6:15
  you know, commercialized by by mid size companies.
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  So it was a good success. And then I think the other thing
• 6:21
  I did before I left was the deal with Exetixis.
• 6:24
  Exetixis was based in California and developed renal cell
• 6:28
  carcinoma treatment which now pretty much has become standard
• 6:32
  of care in the in the world and displaced you know a drug from
• 6:38
  initially from from Pfizer. So it's been obviously changed
• 6:42
  completely the picture of of Ibsen and then another time I'm
• 6:45
  Chairman. I'm pleased to to to see you
• 6:47
  know we we double we triple sales since I arrive we multiply
• 6:51
  EBITDA by 7 and you know our US subsidiary has been obviously
• 6:56
  highly highly profitable and contributed to to to this
• 6:59
  increase. So overall a great experience
• 7:03
  but I lost some hair, more hair on the on the first few years
• 7:09
  and but they survived and then I think you know after six years I
• 7:14
  felt actually pretty good. I know the the company was
• 7:17
  growing you know at about 17% And then I said I think I, you
• 7:21
  know I had the I did what I could.
• 7:24
  It's time for me to to relax a bit to take actually a bit of
• 7:27
  vacation for a while and to you know to think about what I would
• 7:31
  do next and and probably and probably because I am in my
• 7:35
  genes and you know sort of entrepreneurship genes.
• 7:40
  You know it took me a year to figure out what I would do.
• 7:43
  And then luckily I was on the board of number of companies at
• 7:47
  the time and I was able to to speak to, you know one of the
• 7:51
  board member at at Covidia who was actually the chairman and
• 7:56
  who were told me, well we have a nice drug we are developing you
• 8:00
  know early phase two. We need an experience, you know
• 8:04
  CEO that can, you know do studies and and possibly
• 8:07
  commercialize and I got lucky also to enter that that company
• 8:11
  that ultimately you know was sold to to Novo, you know, for
• 8:17
  nearly more than $2 billion. So it's been a, you know, it was
• 8:20
  a great, great, you know, contribution to the development
• 8:25
  of the company and shareholders were, you know, indeed surprised
• 8:29
  and you know, impressed by the the, the quick value accretion
• 8:34
  within the 2 1/2 years. Yeah.
• 8:40
  And and I suppose it's a side thing to that use the word luck,
• 8:45
  you know you luckily you know you sold that asset is how much
• 8:48
  does that come into it do you think?
• 8:52
  Well, you know, I think it was Pastor who said luck, favour or
• 8:55
  the prepared. So you know, luck doesn't happen
• 9:00
  completely. You know, by by, by, you know,
• 9:02
  coincidence. So you have to to prepare
• 9:05
  yourself. But indisputably, you know, in
• 9:07
  the field of science, you know, there are people who do very
• 9:12
  good work to develop drugs and unfortunately the drug doesn't
• 9:15
  turn out the way, you know, expected.
• 9:17
  So this is where I think luck plays a role.
• 9:20
  But on the flip side you know there are a number of instances
• 9:25
  of good drugs which have been poorly developed end up you know
• 9:30
  with failures and that's what you want to to avoid So so I
• 9:36
  think you know it's I think the the industry in general at least
• 9:40
  what I what I what my belief is is that as a leader is it's you
• 9:46
  know you need to learn learn learn and learn.
• 9:47
  So this is an industry where experience play plays a key
• 9:51
  role, but also because science evolves quickly.
• 9:55
  You learn new things, you know need to, you need to adapt, you
• 10:00
  know, to the new reality. But yeah, I think, you know,
• 10:03
  luck's luck plays a role. But you know, again you can put
• 10:07
  it on your side or I think you know or you can you can have,
• 10:10
  there's still some some execs who are unfortunately all the
• 10:15
  time you know don't develop that luck so, so.
• 10:21
  No, that's true. And I think that's there's no
• 10:24
  other industry like it is there where you use the word look and
• 10:28
  you know it's almost warranted in a way.
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  It's crazy really when you think of it like that moving on to to
• 10:36
  Abbey Vax, you know when when you were looking, you must have
• 10:40
  had so many career opportunities.
• 10:42
  So what? What made you choose Abbey Vax
• 10:44
  as the next one? Well, initially I thought I
• 10:47
  would retire because after the Simco sell, I thought, you know,
• 10:50
  it's time to, yeah, to breathe. To breathe.
• 10:53
  And then one of the investor was in Simcoe and also in in in
• 10:59
  COVID. Yeah.
• 11:00
  So So if you know our partners you know told me Mark if you
• 11:03
  don't want to to work full time we have you know we have
• 11:06
  possibly some chairmanship jobs to you know in our portfolio
• 11:11
  where you could be good. And I told you know the managing
• 11:14
  director Anton Papiernik that it would be great if you could do a
• 11:19
  bit of work for me. So to help me figure out which
• 11:23
  companies were among the top so that again I would not end up in
• 11:29
  a in a place where we don't want want to waste my time.
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  So he picked a couple of companies, I looked at them and
• 11:35
  Abby Vax where was there. And then when I looked at Abby
• 11:38
  Vax in more depth, I found out that I thought well it's not
• 11:42
  only a chairman, it's really ACEO is needed.
• 11:45
  And because the phase three had started, I was very struck by
• 11:50
  the fact that the company was under resourced.
• 11:53
  You know, you know had basically a business model completely
• 11:58
  outsourced. And for a very large phase
• 12:00
  three, you know, $300 million investment, I thought well the
• 12:03
  CEO needs to have a, you know, a lot of experience to to come in
• 12:08
  to to be successful. And in the end what I said to to
• 12:13
  to the partner that's of you know, our partners, I said well
• 12:15
  at the end I think you know I should I should be the CEO and
• 12:19
  we'll do the reverse. You'll find the Chairman later
• 12:22
  because I think it's going to be easier to do it this way.
• 12:25
  So you know that's when I joined in in early May of 2023 and I
• 12:33
  actually started my first day was at a big Congress in in
• 12:36
  America, the DDW Congress where I was able to to meet with us
• 12:41
  the top 10 kilos in the world of field they know of psoriatic
• 12:46
  colitis and Crohn's disease. So I believe as it's called and
• 12:50
  you know I saw a lot of excitement you know among the
• 12:53
  doctors about what we are doing. So that's how you know in the
• 12:58
  end I decided to to be another time, another CEO, so probably
• 13:03
  this time for the last time, so that's.
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  That's such a great story, actually, because it makes you
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  think. How many other companies are
• 13:12
  there like Avivax, You've got this great science that just,
• 13:15
  you know, maybe not spotted. Why do why do you think that
• 13:20
  happens, Do you think? Well, I think it's partly
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  because you know I got the benefits simply of having a
• 13:28
  large experience. You know I, you know I I was
• 13:31
  working beef pharma, I worked in small companies, I worked in
• 13:35
  mid, mid sized companies. So I've been able to accumulate
• 13:38
  throughout my career in a bunch of, you know, a bunch of looks
• 13:42
  at different things. I've seen a lot of failures.
• 13:44
  I've seen some successes and you know, it's hard to find.
• 13:48
  There are not too many CEOs like this.
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  I mean, you know, in the world there are, I know maybe 50 like
• 13:53
  you like me, but it's not, you know, it's not in the hundreds.
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  So I I think that at the end of the day that that's part of why,
• 14:02
  you know, experience counts in this, you know, in this field
• 14:07
  so. No, you're right.
• 14:09
  Yeah, I mean my my main trade is recruitment.
• 14:12
  So I know that people of your calibre are extremely hard to
• 14:16
  come by and then you've got to get the timings right and
• 14:20
  everything like that. So you know, sometimes it is
• 14:22
  almost written and the the the stars align and all of that.
• 14:27
  Yeah, no, exactly so. But again, it's a fascinating
• 14:30
  industry. I think that's why, you know,
• 14:31
  it's so important to do, to want to learn.
• 14:33
  I mean the key is success factor is you have to learn, you have
• 14:37
  to be humble. Science you know leads to to be
• 14:40
  humble because of people who think they have invented
• 14:42
  everything and usually you know are pretty dreadful and usually
• 14:46
  don't deliver anything in our industry.
• 14:49
  So because there are always surprises and and you need to
• 14:52
  rebound and you need to be you know, adaptive to things.
• 14:58
  No, agreed, agreed. And then you know, looking back
• 15:01
  at the last year, 2023 to look at it for you, you know, it
• 15:06
  seems like a pretty big year, you know, record-breaking IPO,
• 15:09
  opening the Boston office and you have to talk me through it.
• 15:14
  Yeah, I mean again, so I think what I tried to do when I joined
• 15:17
  in early May, you know two weeks after I said to the board,
• 15:22
  independently of the strategy which we are going to define in
• 15:24
  the next two months with the team, we already need to beef up
• 15:28
  the resources. We are about 50 people, you know
• 15:30
  together, mostly based in France and I said we need to multiply
• 15:36
  by two and by the end of the year.
• 15:38
  So we need to hire 50 people. I have not done the strategy
• 15:41
  yet, but I can tell you just the execution of the phase three.
• 15:45
  If you want to have a successful phase three, we need to beef up
• 15:48
  a number of capabilities in particularly around clinical
• 15:51
  development. You know statistics that are
• 15:53
  management, pharmacovigilance, you know a number of key
• 15:55
  functions that we are not I think in my view properly
• 15:59
  staffed because they were all externalized.
• 16:02
  So we you know quickly decided to hire and then we got again
• 16:07
  lucky because Arena Pharmaceuticals were been sold
• 16:10
  to to the, you know to Pfizer in the field of IBD basically
• 16:16
  released the number of of talents which we were able to
• 16:18
  grab. And then I brought some people
• 16:21
  from Cinco in in his room. I had obviously a lot of trust
• 16:25
  and then on on top of that I had a really good core of people in
• 16:29
  Paris. We had you know brought the
• 16:31
  company to our idea a very nice level at the end of the phase
• 16:34
  two. So you know we combine the three
• 16:35
  things and we're able to advance and reinforce you know the
• 16:39
  execution of the of the company. So that was one.
• 16:42
  Then the first two months is team you know at the top really
• 16:46
  figure out you know what do we want to do next, what are the
• 16:49
  priorities beyond the illustrative colitis which was
• 16:51
  again under development. The question is you know how
• 16:54
  we're going to develop indication.
• 16:55
  So within two months we figure out the strategy.
• 16:59
  We presented that strategy to investor in early September and
• 17:01
  in parallel you know we prepared the the, the ground for an IPO
• 17:07
  on on the NASDAQ and again you know I had a good team financial
• 17:12
  team also here in Paris who were was already you know prepared
• 17:15
  for that. Then I had done an IPO before
• 17:18
  with Simcor just the year before.
• 17:20
  So I knew exactly also what to do and and then you know in in
• 17:25
  in October we're able to pull it together and do you know do do
• 17:29
  this. Yes the largest IPO ever for for
• 17:32
  a French company despite the very difficult times because
• 17:36
  this was right in the middle of you know the beginning of the
• 17:38
  Israel or Gaza war and that was you know that was pretty tough
• 17:43
  environment but nevertheless we're able to raise the money
• 17:46
  and and to continue to execute. So I think you know it's it's
• 17:49
  it's partly the the the the you need to have the foundation you
• 17:52
  need to have good people around you.
• 17:54
  You know I don't you know I need a lot of good people around me
• 17:58
  to be successful. So we we we did we I think the
• 18:01
  risk the company by attracting some very good people and then
• 18:05
  it's all about execution execution you know and making
• 18:07
  sure you have the money to to run good trials because
• 18:10
  blockbusters are not developed you know by doing small studies
• 18:14
  it's very expensive these days. So in the field of IBD, you know
• 18:17
  for psoriatic crisis just to give you a a number, it's cost
• 18:21
  about $200,000 per patient for the study.
• 18:25
  So this this is our extremely expensive study to run.
• 18:30
  Yeah. And it's becoming a common theme
• 18:32
  really from these podcasts, the bio hub podcasts, you know,
• 18:35
  people, people, people so important to to get the essence
• 18:39
  right. And then you're right.
• 18:40
  Then. Then it's all about execution.
• 18:43
  And yeah, especially when you're, you know, you're a
• 18:46
  smaller company. Yeah, because your your team is
• 18:49
  as good as your weakest link. And you know, developing a drug
• 18:52
  is a bit like a puzzle. So you need to put all the
• 18:56
  pieces together and if you miss the one piece, you have no drug.
• 19:01
  So the, so you have to be very attentive to each of the, you
• 19:05
  know, the components, you know the regulatory, again the
• 19:08
  manufacturing, CMC, you know clinical development, clinical
• 19:13
  operations, statistically all these various functions.
• 19:17
  But that's also what makes this job so interesting.
• 19:20
  So it's highly complex, but once you pull the things together,
• 19:23
  you know you can develop a great drug for patients and then
• 19:27
  you're going to make a difference, you know forever in
• 19:29
  the in the life of patients. So that's a wonderful thing.
• 19:33
  Yeah, that's what it all comes down to at the end of the day.
• 19:35
  Yeah. Incredible.
• 19:39
  Yeah. I mean, this falls on so nicely,
• 19:42
  you know, You must be so proud of the team and what you've
• 19:44
  built so far, what makes them so special?
• 19:47
  And then what makes you good, inspiring and motivate and
• 19:51
  manager for them? Yeah, I think, I mean they are
• 19:55
  special because again they come with a great background, but I
• 19:58
  think they have the same, you know, we all have the same
• 20:00
  inspiration. We we think you know our mission
• 20:03
  is very unique. We are developing you know
• 20:06
  likely the 1st or agent that could become standard of care
• 20:12
  you know for the treatment of his psoriatic colitis.
• 20:14
  So we're extremely privileged to be associated with the
• 20:17
  development of this drug. We believe in it.
• 20:20
  And you know that is very inspiring for, for for all of
• 20:24
  us. You know it's not the me too of
• 20:26
  you know, the six, you know 6 drug in the class.
• 20:31
  You know this is a new mechanism of action.
• 20:33
  This is kind of a ground breaking technology.
• 20:38
  And you know, again, maybe we fail, but at least we would have
• 20:42
  tried to, you know, to launch, you know, a drug that is very
• 20:47
  special for these patients. And remember in IBD these
• 20:50
  patients are young. You know, they are between the
• 20:53
  age of 20 to 40. Their life is misery because
• 20:57
  they have to go constantly to, to, to, to the bathrooms.
• 21:00
  You know, they lose, they lose blood.
• 21:02
  They are fatigue. Very often they cannot have a,
• 21:05
  you know, a good solid professional life and very often
• 21:10
  they are private life is a ruin as well because you know, they
• 21:12
  can't operate an anomaly. So you know this is again
• 21:16
  meaningful development for for all of us and I think you know
• 21:19
  the team is, is very conscious that what we do here is special,
• 21:25
  so. Yeah, yeah.
• 21:28
  It's all about the mission. And I'm guessing like, you know
• 21:31
  what? What you're setting out to do.
• 21:33
  Yeah. So you know what?
• 21:36
  What next? What have we got to look forward
• 21:38
  to with with ABI Vax? Well, I'd be back.
• 21:42
  So you'll know more actually assume because we're going to do
• 21:45
  a press release on a number of activities for 2024.
• 21:48
  So we have a bunch of things that you know we we want to
• 21:52
  accomplish. Obviously the phase three in a
• 21:53
  psoriatic colitis is the number one priority #2 Crohn's disease.
• 21:57
  So we want to start a program in your Phase 2IN Crohn's disease
• 22:02
  but also we have the excitement to have oviphazimab to our drug
• 22:07
  potentially combine with other agents that are out there.
• 22:11
  So we want to start experiments first in you know in mice
• 22:15
  technical experiments to test out those hypothesis but you
• 22:18
  know doctors think that over fazimab could be the treatment
• 22:24
  of choice to to combine with other agents.
• 22:26
  So again, so we we we are very excited about that to have
• 22:30
  hopefully by the year end some earlier results.
• 22:34
  And then finally you know it's all about also making Abby Vax
• 22:38
  more known around the world because we've been, you know now
• 22:43
  that we have a bit more and more funding, we can be more present
• 22:47
  with gastroenterologies. We're going to attend a number
• 22:49
  of key conferences and we're going to publish you know, some,
• 22:52
  I think, first class, 1st class papers about, you know, the
• 22:55
  potential impact of our drug. Amazing.
• 23:00
  Yeah, really amazing. So if 2023 was a big year, then
• 23:03
  so it's 2024. Yeah.
• 23:08
  Exactly, yeah. And then one thing we like, we
• 23:11
  like to do on the on the podcast, just, you know, you've
• 23:15
  had a great career, you're a great leader, just mindset sort
• 23:18
  of things. And one thing a lot of people
• 23:21
  struggle with, including myself actually, is, is work life
• 23:24
  balance. And so how's that been for you?
• 23:29
  And then as an extension to that also, what do you think about
• 23:33
  the progression of working from home and and how that coincides?
• 23:37
  Yeah, so work life balance is a is a is a very essential for a
• 23:42
  leader to succeed. So as you have responsibilities
• 23:48
  indeed work is #1 because that's the way it is.
• 23:52
  But apart from that, I think you need to to to make sure you have
• 23:57
  time to reflect and to take care of your, you know, loved ones.
• 24:01
  So, you know, personally I've tried to put my family #2,
• 24:05
  especially, you know when the children were young to try to be
• 24:08
  with them and you know, some my colleagues were all going to
• 24:11
  cinema movies and so on. I was you know, with my wife and
• 24:14
  and the children as they grew up, which I think provided me
• 24:18
  with a great satisfaction. And then also I think is the
• 24:21
  third element apart from work and family is also take care of
• 24:25
  yourself physically speaking. So you need to pay attention
• 24:29
  that when you're a lot under stress and most of the jobs you
• 24:33
  know we do, especially when you're CEO, there's a lot of
• 24:36
  stress. So you need to to to take your
• 24:39
  time to relax, to do some physical exercise or mental
• 24:42
  exercise but do things that allow you to take distance and
• 24:47
  to you know sort of a rebalance even for work some of the some
• 24:52
  of the issues because at the end of the day to be highly
• 24:56
  productive in work. What you have agreed to to make
• 25:00
  sure is that you you work not on everything but you work on the
• 25:03
  very important things that are going to make a big difference
• 25:06
  to to to the company and also to to patients.
• 25:09
  And I think some managers tend to be you know, macro managers,
• 25:13
  they tend to to to spread everything so thin, so thin,
• 25:17
  they don't rely so much on their people and as a result, you know
• 25:20
  they are overworked, they are not very productive and in the
• 25:23
  end their performance is not very good.
• 25:25
  So I think it's so work life balance is absolutely essential.
• 25:28
  It's very hard to do and there are obviously moments, you know,
• 25:31
  like when we did our IPO, you know you work literally night
• 25:34
  and day, you have to review documents, you know at 2:00 in
• 25:37
  the morning, you know, then you know it's all about work.
• 25:41
  But then when you have the moment to to relax, you know,
• 25:45
  take advantage of it, take a break, take away, you know for
• 25:47
  example at at the Evacs during Christmas and New Year how we
• 25:51
  said, you know, we close the office.
• 25:52
  So no work, no emails, nothing, you know, and by the way, I
• 25:57
  think I received, I I received only one e-mail and the one
• 26:00
  e-mail was just to to wish me, you know, a good, a good, happy
• 26:04
  new Year. So, so, so it was, you know,
• 26:07
  absolutely, I think an excellent testimony of, you know, you
• 26:13
  know, highlighting the importance of taking a break.
• 26:17
  Yeah, I I I think that's great. I'm just glad that e-mail wasn't
• 26:21
  from me saying something that something that that would have
• 26:28
  related to work that's that's that's a good thing.
• 26:32
  What? What sets your mindset apart
• 26:34
  from the rest and and what has LED you to get ahead of other
• 26:37
  people? Well, I know it's a hard
• 26:40
  question I think to answer. I think you know, obviously you
• 26:43
  need a lot of energy, you need, you know you need to be inspired
• 26:47
  by certain things. But I I think you know in the
• 26:51
  end it's it is exactly what I said a bit before.
• 26:55
  They are I think some leaders want to micromanage everything
• 26:59
  they they they you know they look at everything.
• 27:02
  They make comments on everything that you know but they don't
• 27:04
  concentrate on what's important and they don't are important
• 27:09
  enough and then they don't have a sense of the risk that they
• 27:12
  are taking. You see what I mean.
• 27:15
  So I think part of the, you know, at least to me, there are
• 27:18
  two reasons why I think you have been, you know, doing OK versus
• 27:21
  some of the other colleagues is 1.
• 27:25
  I spend a lot of time thinking what's important even, you know,
• 27:29
  every morning when I wake up, you know, you get tons of
• 27:33
  emails, right? And the temptation is to answer
• 27:36
  all of them, right and then suspend, you know.
• 27:38
  But what you have to figure out is all of those emails, what is
• 27:41
  going to be really important in creating value and you have to
• 27:45
  prioritize them. So I think always focusing on
• 27:48
  the things that have big impact is #1 and I think you know the
• 27:52
  probably the second thing that is relate which is related and
• 27:56
  more specific to the industry is probably because of my you know,
• 28:00
  learning experience. I I understand maybe a bit more
• 28:05
  than others the profile of the drugs and what needs to be done
• 28:09
  to be successful. You know, there are some CEOs
• 28:13
  that are, you know, you know, that are better than others.
• 28:16
  You know, see for me, one of the most successful CEOs these days,
• 28:19
  he's a, he's a, you know, Pascal Sawyer at at AstraZeneca who has
• 28:23
  a fantastic grasp on on drugs. And you know he goes on campus
• 28:30
  and he has his backpack. You know, he's the CEO of one of
• 28:32
  the largest company in the world.
• 28:34
  And you see, you see him, you know, going to to to the
• 28:37
  Congress reading abstract. So I think you know what what
• 28:42
  what you need to to to be is you need to understand the, you
• 28:45
  know, you need to be to to to understand the science, you need
• 28:48
  to read things. But you know, you know and you
• 28:54
  need overtime to feel the drug, right.
• 28:56
  It's just hard to describe, but you know that when you see
• 29:00
  there's a result of the drug, you start to know this is going
• 29:03
  to be a good drug or this is going to be a bad drug.
• 29:07
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:09
  So I suppose it comes down to prioritization, but also the,
• 29:13
  you know, visualization of what's to come.
• 29:16
  Yeah, I think that's, yeah, great, great advice and maybe
• 29:22
  this will follow on actually and might have a bit of overlap.
• 29:25
  What advice would you give to young people trying to become
• 29:29
  successful in biotech and pharma?
• 29:33
  Yeah, I would say a few things. You know, learn, learn and
• 29:35
  learn. This is, you know it's it's it's
• 29:38
  what's wonderful about about this industry is that you are,
• 29:42
  you're going to be, you know exposed to constant changes in
• 29:46
  science, new things. And you need to have, you know
• 29:48
  the the the ability and the and the and the desire to, you know
• 29:53
  to to want to learn. Because if you don't, if you
• 29:55
  don't learn, if you don't understand what what you're
• 29:58
  doing, you know you're not going to go everywhere, anywhere.
• 30:00
  So that that's probably one of the of the of the, you know,
• 30:03
  important thing be ready to learn because it's just
• 30:06
  interesting. And two, it's actually one of
• 30:10
  my, my first boss told me one thing, you know, when I was
• 30:13
  actually a younger, a young starter.
• 30:16
  He told me something that actually struck me more of the
• 30:19
  time. But he said very quickly because
• 30:21
  I was very impatient when I was when I was young.
• 30:24
  And he said, he said to me, Mark, it's not how fast you go,
• 30:28
  it is how far you go. And you know there is a lot of
• 30:31
  depth in this, in this statement because you know when you are,
• 30:37
  when you're young, you want to, you know you want to have a
• 30:39
  responsibility very quickly and so on.
• 30:41
  But in this industry in particular because it is so
• 30:43
  complex, I think you need to go through three jobs to learn you
• 30:50
  know different facets of drug development or commercialization
• 30:54
  or you know what you know potentially production.
• 30:57
  So that at the end of the day when you become ACEO you have
• 31:01
  higher chance of success because you have built all this.
• 31:04
  You know you build a house on strong foundation and in this
• 31:08
  industry you need to really understand the foundation if you
• 31:11
  want you know to be I think successful.
• 31:13
  So, so at the expense of wanting to go fast, you know you need
• 31:18
  to, you need to wait a bit before you ultimately have those
• 31:22
  responsibilities. So that's would be my two pieces
• 31:26
  of advice. Yeah, because you see it a lot,
• 31:31
  don't you? You know, graduates coming out
• 31:33
  and straight away using technology, becoming ACEO off
• 31:36
  the bat, you know, without doing all the bits in between.
• 31:40
  And you know it, it does happen where they they're successful.
• 31:42
  But no, majority of the time they they're not.
• 31:45
  And you know, and that's because of everything you just
• 31:47
  explained. Yeah, yeah, I completely get
• 31:50
  that. But yeah, look, it's it's been a
• 31:53
  pleasure Mark. I've really appreciated having
• 31:55
  you on and I've, I've taken so much from it.
• 31:58
  Never mind, you know, everyone else is going to be listening.
• 32:03
  So look, thanks so much for the time.
• 32:06
  Yeah. Well, thank you very much for
• 32:07
  allowing me to to speak to you. So thank you.
• 32:11
  Bye, bye. Thanks, Mark.
• 32:14
  Thanks everyone. Bye.