Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Mark Goodwin | Stablecoins, CBDC's & Ordinals? Oh MY!! | Simply Bitcoin TTO

Transcript

Mark Goodwin | Stablecoins, CBDC's & Ordinals? Oh MY!! | Simply Bitcoin TTO · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
Hey yo, it's your boy Opti, we're back for another tto.
0:06
I'm super excited for this one before I even scheduled.
0:10
Mark, I knew I wanted to have this conversation.
0:13
If you don't know who my Goodwin is, he is one of the editors for
0:17
the physical Bitcoin mag. I have a few of them here.
0:20
He makes these guys, he's the one making these physical ziens
0:23
with my other friend Joe and he continuously has been talking
0:29
about Out CBC stable coin, synthetic dollars and Fiat or
0:34
you know, Fiat on the lightning Bitcoin rails and this is why I
0:38
wanted to bring them on. I feel like this is a good
0:40
conversation. We haven't had on simply Bitcoin
0:43
and I honestly, haven't heard this conversation.
0:45
Anywhere else much, either, I've seen it on Twitter.
0:47
So I was like, you know what, I want to bring you on, and let's
0:51
talk about this Mark and then it turns out that over the weekend
0:55
for the past week or so Mark is basically, you know, Ground
0:59
Zero. For a lot of controversy over on
1:01
bitcoin Twitter. So I am pretty sure by the end
1:05
of today's episode will kind of jump in on that, as well.
1:08
But before I go too far, let me bring in our guests.
1:11
Mark, how you doing, bro? We were talking about this
1:15
behind the scenes but I met Mark officially at Bitcoin 2020 to be
1:21
State and I saw him on Twitter for a while, he was just playing
1:26
playing music playing guitar and I just saw him and I went up to
1:29
him like yo, What's up, bro? I love what you're doing and
1:32
then we just started growing out on one of my favorite singers,
1:34
songwriters, Harry, Nilsson, and ever since then, Mark just been
1:38
on the map with me and I'm just like, I like this guy's cool if
1:41
you know, Harry Nilsson is then this guy is cool.
1:44
So, just like, you know, in my opinion I love what you doing,
1:48
you know, first and foremost. You guys are killing it over
1:51
here on these freaking absolutely beautiful magazines.
1:55
And of course, your coworker or They're over there with Joe
2:01
Rogers. And Joe Rogers is like family to
2:03
me. So I absolutely love what you're
2:05
doing bro. And again I don't know how new
2:09
you are to bitcoin but like you came in hot this last couple of
2:12
months and you have a lot of spicy takes and so I'm sure that
2:17
it might get contentious here in a little bit.
2:18
But anyways say what's up to the crowd?
2:20
Mark how are ya? Yo Opti.
2:22
Thanks so much for having me brother.
2:23
Yeah, I mean as you just said, man, like day one, you know we
2:28
ran into each other at away slice This little gathering of
2:31
the crazies and immediately, you know, you were just so
2:35
supportive and kind and you were like, you were giving me good
2:37
advice. You're like, now, you know, man,
2:39
I love your stuff here. You know, practice to a
2:41
metronome, you know, you were giving me real tangible, you
2:44
know, compliment sandwich it and it's I love that about Bitcoin
2:47
man. Like, you know, Bitcoins a means
2:49
to an end, you know, it's just money and, you know, when you
2:52
can get people together on like a much deeper level and just,
2:56
yeah, I felt at home right away. And yeah, you're the homie and
3:00
Simply Bitcoins the shit and I'm super excited to be here.
3:03
You guys do amazing stuff? And yeah and yeah we'll
3:06
definitely get into the controversy shit for sure.
3:08
I'm not trying to come in hot, you know, I'm always trying to
3:10
come in as a good faith in Gauger, try to do the logical
3:14
thing. And, but of course, you know,
3:16
I'm, you know, I have a strong moral floor and what I believe,
3:20
and I believe in and I'm not going to let the, the commons,
3:26
you know, push me away from what I believe is, right?
3:28
So, Lots of shit to talk about for sure.
3:31
But yeah I mean let's let's get into some of the love it.
3:33
Okay. All their Bitcoins.
3:34
All right bro. So I do have some tweets up
3:37
here. I'm going to pull them up just
3:39
so we have you know a jumping off point and then you can you
3:42
can take them wherever you want. Again.
3:44
I kind of want to just pick your brain and then we'll kind of
3:46
talk this out. And then of course, I think I
3:49
have some tweets leading into the controversies and
3:51
everything. So this first one for the audio
3:53
listeners. This is a tweet.
3:55
This is literally the tweet that I saw.
3:57
It's not the first tweet that I've seen from you Mark talking
3:59
about this. This is a tweet that I sent you.
4:01
And I'm like, yo, bro, like let's talk about this on simply
4:04
so we'll start with this tweet and we'll move into the other
4:07
ones as well. I do have some tweets from our
4:08
boy Joe. So Hey Joe, if you're out there,
4:10
dude, and you want to link to jump on real quick, it's alive
4:14
invite. We're doing it live.
4:16
Okay. Anyways, we got this tweet by
4:18
Marquis go fed. Now being an inter banking
4:20
transfer Network and not a retail.
4:22
CBBC token. Only seems like a victory for
4:25
plebs. If you think the USD is the
4:27
reserve asset and not US Treasury.
4:29
He's it's actually way worse and you got like the 1984 Meme here,
4:33
for the audio listeners and you go don't worry.
4:35
You will get your retail CBD. See from fed chosen Banks back
4:38
by the synthetic UST payment rail, which will allow far more
4:42
costumer restriction rights due to being issued by the private
4:45
sector and not directly by the government.
4:47
Same Playbook add palantir or meta interbank rate and rails
4:50
are far more important than M1 balances and you got a Magoo
4:54
tweet here. I see you in Magoo go back and
4:56
forth all day. Fentanyl is worse than a CBC And
5:00
I think on that same. Same note, this was yesterday,
5:03
you did broke government-issued, CBC woke.
5:06
Retail stable coins are actually the CBD.
5:08
See bespoke here comes Apple pay plus fed now.
5:12
So and we even got Chris. Our boy, Chris down here goes
5:15
spoke, Apple pay plus fed now on lightning and you do you mean
5:18
um, you roof. All right, bro.
5:21
So I do have more stuff here, other tweets here but let's just
5:24
let's just start with the basics.
5:25
What are you trying to get at here?
5:27
And what is the idea? And or and then Yeah, it start
5:30
with that and then I'll add another question.
5:32
Yeah, totally. Well, I think that there's a lot
5:34
of sort of, like, red, herons or like, mcguffin's whatever kind
5:37
of phrase, you want to use when people talk about Central Bank,
5:40
digital currencies, and the main thing that people sort of seemed
5:44
to talk about, is that Central Bank.
5:45
Digital currencies are going to be this like, you know,
5:48
panopticon sort of like just All-Seeing Eye of, you know,
5:53
surveilling all payment rails and all payments by, you know,
5:57
citizens of the government that issues, the CB See, and that's
6:01
really been the like the narrative that's been pushed is
6:04
that it's this total like 1984 shit.
6:07
And unfortunately, I mean I think we have to look at the
6:11
system or in now and realize that we're already there and
6:15
yes, there's cash. And there are some a couple ways
6:17
to do, you know, some things but for the most part, we're
6:20
completely surveilled than every way, Snowden leaks revealed
6:23
that, we know what the NSA is capable of.
6:25
And then, of course, we know, you know what, you know, rights
6:29
have been restored. Stricted in the banking sector
6:31
and in payment rail, sectors, you know, via like, you know,
6:34
Free Speech protests and stuff. We saw that in Canada, you know,
6:38
with the with the trucker movement, right?
6:40
So we're already kind of there. And so this big fear of oh the
6:44
government's going to directly issue a CBC and they're going to
6:47
have control and blacklisting and and they can they can seize
6:50
your your funds and track everything.
6:53
And I think the actual Playbook that we've seen the US
6:57
government run, when they've built This sort of surveillance
7:01
programs. I mentioned palantir and meta
7:04
they and even Twitter up until you know, recently depending on
7:08
how you feel about Elon, you know, heavily heavily heavily
7:12
influenced by government contracts and by government
7:16
agents themselves. And so the Playbook is sort of,
7:19
let's keep these public squares or what should be public
7:23
squares, whether it's communication, networks, social
7:27
media or, you know, eventually you know the banking Sector.
7:30
Let's take these public squares and rather than have to take on
7:33
the sort of government responsibility of giving kind of
7:36
free access, you know, two citizens and have a lot less
7:39
restrictions being in the public sector.
7:43
Instead, we keep it in the private sector, you know, meta
7:47
is a humongous surveillance Network.
7:49
I mean, it collects so much data and it sells all of your data,
7:53
but being it, a private company, I mean, they're able to take
7:57
your data that you're that you sign off for and agree to.
7:59
And Let to, you know, private companies that are often
8:03
contracted by the government as well.
8:05
And so this data is is everywhere I mean you say
8:08
something near an iPhone and it's recorded, there's an
8:11
absolute potential case for that.
8:14
You know, you email something in Gmail you know.
8:16
So we're kind of already in this surveillance state in the sphere
8:21
of the government taking over money in the very you know,
8:25
specific government-issued way to me is, you know, So it's sort
8:30
of like I look at it as almost like, you know, you know,
8:34
there's going to be this push you know from you know these
8:38
these actors basically coming up and being like we need to push
8:41
back against the directly government-issued CB DC.
8:44
We need to give this right to the to the private sector and
8:47
and people get excited about that and think that this is like
8:50
a win for the people and it's really not the private sector is
8:54
one of the biggest problems. Certainly the government induced
8:58
or endorse? Sector is one of the biggest
9:01
problems that Americans and really frankly, the world has to
9:04
deal with and I also think it gets to sort of the mechanisms
9:10
of how the banking system works. And that was that comment on US
9:14
Dollars versus us. Treasuries and the, the the
9:18
asset that the FED is selling that people need to be able to,
9:23
you know, that they need to be able to sell and package up
9:26
their debt. They're these treasuries and
9:29
they're not you S dollars and they sell treasuries to private
9:32
banks, in the private sector, who then take those treasuries,
9:35
and then create M1. And and, and create credit out
9:40
of buying. These treasuries and create
9:41
dollars in your bank account. And that idea of a win that, oh
9:48
it's not a directly issued thing.
9:50
What will, what? Where does that?
9:51
Leave? This power vacuum and it leaves
9:53
it for the public for the private sector to come in and
9:56
release basically retail cdc's. That are backed by US.
10:01
Treasuries, the US government is, is completely inundated with
10:06
debt and they need to, you know, service that debt.
10:11
And the way that they do it is by selling treasuries.
10:13
So who is kind of left to be able to actually you know,
10:17
purchase treasuries and mass in a way to keep this kind of
10:21
economic hegeman going and it's private Banks looking to create,
10:26
you know, M1 basically and then stable coin.
10:29
Issuers. Who are also looking to create
10:32
M1 in the form of like stable coins.
10:35
But they're the biggest buyers are one of the biggest buyers of
10:38
us, treasuries, and mass. And we've seen, you know, huge
10:41
inflows into stable coins and a lot of fuckery in the stable
10:46
coin world, since a lot of sense 2020.
10:49
And since a lot of this kind of New Economic Policy, you know,
10:54
we've dealt with the Whiplash of cutting rates and now jacking
10:56
them up faster than ever. So, Rolling that all back.
11:01
The the FED now being this basically a interbank payment
11:06
Network that's a 365 24/7. You know, instantaneous
11:13
interbank network is actually a lot worse in that it centralizes
11:19
so much of the way that the banking system is set up and
11:23
really nationalizes the FED even more and makes, you know the the
11:28
the ability to Set, basically, these interbank overnight rates
11:32
where they exchange, treasuries for cash.
11:37
If there's an imbalance one way or the other, and these
11:39
interbank rates are set by the FED there.
11:43
You've probably heard the reverse repo rate, so a repo
11:46
repo rate is just a repurchase agreement and all that means is
11:49
that you're offering to. If you have a lot of cash,
11:52
you're offering to give cash. If you want, treasuries your all
11:55
your offering to give cash to buy some treasuries.
11:59
Just to hold for overnight and you're agreeing to repurchase it
12:02
in the morning and you pay a fee because you know you need these
12:05
treasuries and reverse repo obviously is the opposite of
12:08
that. So it's when you have treasuries
12:10
and you need cash because depositors are trying to get out
12:12
of your bank and, you know, we're all fractional reserved
12:15
anyways, for no one has the deposits but you need to go.
12:18
Hey, I need to, you know, I'll I need to sell these treasuries
12:22
just for a night to just to make sure that in the morning, we
12:24
don't go bankrupt. So we saw this reverse repo
12:28
Market Come out of really know where there was a repo crisis in
12:34
September 2019 and then in 2020 and 2021 we saw the reverse repo
12:39
Market, which used to be like, you know, billions like not that
12:42
much. Go up to, you know, settling two
12:45
trillion dollars a day and we've been in that world now for like
12:48
two years and that interbank overnight rate is now you know
12:54
about 5%. It's really high so that yield
12:56
is really really high and what fed Now basically does, is it
13:00
gives it like instant ability to make whole any bank and then set
13:05
the rate to whatever it wants of any of these interbank
13:09
transfers? Which, you know, because every
13:12
bank is fractionally reserved, it just gives more and more and
13:14
more power, to the Federal Reserve banking system, and it's
13:21
going to most likely continue to obviously onshore the dollar and
13:27
take power away from these over Shore.
13:29
Offshore dollar markets like the Euro Market.
13:32
This is a pretty much a direct attack on the Libor, which is
13:37
the rate, the overbank, the overnight rate in London.
13:40
That's set by a bunch of European Banks.
13:42
This, this reverse repo yield going up, is basically, you
13:47
know, hey you can bring you can make a lot more money by coming
13:50
to the u.s. and storing your capital in the US, which is the
13:53
reason why you raise interest rates, you know, you want to get
13:58
rid of these inflationary. Effects from printing, all this
14:00
money, you know, hey, you know, we want to crush demand, give us
14:04
your dollars and will give you 5%.
14:08
Everyone is starting to pour into the US banking system and
14:12
buying treasuries to get these crazy yields.
14:15
So we're seeing like a nationalization a
14:17
centralization, we're seeing Regional Banks fail, we're
14:22
seeing deposits going into the you know big American for banks
14:26
and then we're seeing this new thing coming out in July.
14:30
Which is going to make that ever more efficient and give ever
14:33
more power to, you know, whoever is sitting at the computer that
14:37
wants to, you know, put another digit in and change the, you
14:40
know, the overnight rate. So, to me, I think fed now is
14:43
actually a lot more dangerous than just a government-issued.
14:47
I mean, I don't think the government issued direct CDC
14:49
would be worse than, you know, sort of the surveillance and
14:54
right to Blacklist and The Trusted third party - of our
14:58
banking system or Or already stable corn providers as, is it
15:02
really wouldn't be that much worse?
15:05
Whereas this centralization and nationalization of the United
15:08
States banking system towards the Federal Reserve is a lot
15:12
more perverse. Absolutely love it.
15:15
I hope everyone was following along because I'm like you
15:18
hitting me with stuff I'm like yeah this this sounds the sounds
15:21
right to me. But I mean if we've learned
15:22
anything in the recent you know in the recent future and the
15:25
recent news is that the private sector is an extension of
15:29
Tutions like it's not like a conspiracy theory anymore.
15:33
Like this is factual, this is how things work in the modern
15:36
world and as you're saying and I've had this conversation with
15:39
not only you and Joe but a couple other friends.
15:42
Like it's very obvious that money is already digital and we
15:45
are already surveilled, like, we are basically already in the CBC
15:48
system. It's just not as obvious.
15:50
And of course, you know, this is one of the beautiful aspects of
15:52
Bitcoin that we love so much. It's a system completely out of
15:56
anyone's control, but it's absolutely amazing.
15:58
The men, Well gymnastics that people have to go through to not
16:01
endorse Bitcoin to little literally solve whatever problem
16:05
that they think they're trying to solve.
16:06
And you're just like guys, like Bitcoin fixes, it's like Bitcoin
16:09
is my stable coin like what are you guys talking about?
16:11
Like why what why are you guys over complicating?
16:13
All this stuff, but absolutely love it.
16:15
Okay, let's get into this one at one of these other tweets
16:17
because I do kind of want to keep this around an hour.
16:19
And it'll seem like we could probably do this for like 2
16:21
hours, so, all right. Yeah, absolutely.
16:24
I'll be 45. All right, so you gave him the
16:27
basics. I think we're going to tie this
16:29
in. Some tweets at Joe's been saying
16:31
and I'm sure you and Joe have this conversation every single
16:33
day, so I can always imagine what.
16:36
Okay, so I can only imagine that, you know, exactly what
16:38
just saying here. So again for the audio
16:40
listeners, we got some tweets by Joe Rogers.
16:43
He goes cvtc's are coming whether you like it or not.
16:45
In the US, they'll be cloaked the stable coins, they'll be
16:47
more blatant. Other jurisdiction.
16:49
Spooks will try to convince you that these synthetic dollars
16:51
should ride on bitcoin rails and you should, you should support
16:55
this reject their frame. And one more stable coins and
16:57
cbc's are just Those people who support these Technologies are
17:01
regarded and or evil. Okay.
17:04
So that's gel Rogers. But anyways, Mark.
17:08
Yes. Are you privy to these
17:10
conversations? What is just saying in these
17:12
very eloquent tweets here? Yeah, I mean, Joe definitely has
17:15
a way with words. He's straight to the point and
17:18
Savage and I love them for it. I mean there's a lot there's a
17:22
lot to talk about there. I would say one of the main
17:25
things that we do talk about a lot is this Of stable coins
17:32
being this like Freedom technology and how stable coins
17:36
are banking the unbanked. And they're giving, you know,
17:40
people in hyper-inflated countries you know access to the
17:43
dollar and how it's this like you know, loving act, basically
17:47
to you know, sell you know the global South stable coins.
17:53
Right? I mean, it's this big thing.
17:54
It's virtue signal the lot. It's talked about a lot and I
17:58
would say that like, like there is some truth to it and a sense
18:02
where, if you really are in one of these places like in
18:04
Argentina, Venezuela or whatever, where you're seeing
18:07
huge bouts of inflation, like true.
18:09
True. True inflation.
18:11
Yeah. Like, there's a protecting your
18:13
purchasing power using the dollar I totally understand that
18:17
but like what is the dollar like what is the dollar system?
18:20
And the dollar system is a very perverse empirical
18:23
military-to-military estate, like industrial complex Petro
18:27
dollar, derivative It's a, it's not a great thing.
18:32
I mean, the US government is, you know, one of the biggest
18:36
terrorist organizations in the world.
18:38
Frankly, if you look at, you know, the numbers, you know,
18:42
since we basically started this war on terror like post 9/11,
18:45
it's like who's killed more Americans than any one.
18:49
It's the US government and the way they financed this
18:52
imperialism and this you know, colonialism depending on where
18:56
it is. Some of it colonialism literally
18:58
for you know, Loyal with the, with the mechanics of the Petro
19:01
dollar, you know? This, you know, we're basically
19:06
financing the US government to continue on their bullshit by
19:10
supporting and building out rails to sell petrol dollars.
19:14
And, and this idea that we run banking or were banking the
19:18
unbanked, it's like, well, no, you're charging them money to
19:21
use your bank account, you know, I mean, stable coins, are not
19:26
like a trustless thing. They're a completely, you know,
19:28
trusted Party and they have counterparty risk.
19:32
And you know, that's something that, you know, I think was
19:35
obvious before. But clearly we should have
19:36
learned with signature and Silver Gate and some of these
19:39
connections and then obviously, of course, some of the more
19:42
collaborative teams like with Luna or whatever, these
19:44
algorithmic attempts, you know, that that but definitely more.
19:50
So the the direct issuance from stable corn providers like us DC
19:54
or or tether that or Busa be USD that Are getting exposure to us,
20:00
treasuries in order to get that yield and then issuing stable
20:04
coins on top of it. So like what are you really
20:06
supporting when you're building? Stable coin rails, you're
20:09
selling petrodollar. Derivatives, like don't fool
20:12
yourself. Like that's what it is and and
20:15
why do bitcoiners want to do that?
20:17
Like why would B Corners want to put Petro dollar derivatives
20:20
into the base layer and then transact with stable coins on
20:25
Lightning? I think, I think that that's
20:29
very Hurry, like counter to a lot of the, this sort of hate to
20:34
say Mission because I don't think anyone should imbue the
20:36
mission of what Bitcoin is but you know, the potential of what
20:40
Bitcoin could be as really like defanging this, honestly,
20:45
frankly this this, this terrible thing in the US dollar system
20:49
and to me, it just seems very confused and maybe a slightly
20:57
naive at what the actual mechanism.
20:59
Is that are being created, it's like creating a real to be able
21:02
to Dollar eyes the world even faster than it already is I
21:07
don't really want to participate in that, like I don't respect
21:11
the state, I don't respect the Federal Reserve.
21:14
I think that the way that they've manipulated interest
21:16
rates and and you know, the the support and the bailing out of
21:22
the private sector, after 2008 that left millions of people
21:25
without homes and no one went to jail for it. and and, you know,
21:31
the political divide of like every you know, Fed chair since
21:35
volcker in the late 70s through Powell has been nominated by one
21:40
party and renominated by the other every single one except
21:43
Yellen and that stuff is just like like there's this a big
21:48
purple party and imperialistic terrorist organization that
21:54
operates by selling US dollar debt and I don't want to build
21:59
out those tools. I don't want to help those
22:01
people. I think those people deserve the
22:04
worst and Bitcoin has a chance to really replace the reserve
22:08
asset of us treasuries in the global economy in a way that the
22:16
dollar really hasn't been challenged before.
22:20
And I think to build out rails that support the dollar system
22:24
when we have an alternative here to bring the Dollar on to
22:27
bitcoin, just seems like one of the Sacrilegious things you
22:31
could do but you know, Bitcoin is a Public Square and people
22:36
are going to shove shit in the witness and build tools that
22:39
they want. And I understand why people
22:42
realize and think that by doing this, you know, number will go
22:46
up sailor at pack. Bitcoin talked a lot about this
22:50
like this is a multi-trillion dollar industry to put stable
22:53
coins on Lightning because lightning is a more Superior
22:56
efficient, you know, payment, Protocol.
23:00
And so why wouldn't we want dollars on there?
23:02
You know, we can sling Dollars around, you know, trust us lie
23:04
and instantaneously, it's like well can you sling dollars trust
23:07
thusly? No, you can't, it's impossible.
23:11
There's no such thing as a stable coin, there's trusted
23:14
third parties and there's petrodollar.
23:16
Derivatives and while I think being the, the greed and me and
23:20
the number go up and me understands that probably would
23:24
we would probably monetize quicker and US dollar.
23:29
Asians Anyway by bringing in this system and introducing it
23:33
to the main layer. But I would rather us go slow.
23:38
I mean I would rather High per Bitcoin ization, take longer and
23:42
we do it safer and do it right then try to rush into anything
23:45
crazy and and perhaps save the dollar system in the long term
23:50
by connecting it with this demand inelastic commodity, that
23:55
is Bitcoin. And that's what I wrote this
23:57
book about the Bitcoin doll. Dollar is about so much of the
24:00
stuff we've talked about. But the basic thesis is like the
24:04
US government is going to do, whatever the hell it can to keep
24:07
the dollar alive. We've learned that over and over
24:09
again. Whether it was seasoned golden
24:11
33, whether it was the Nixon shock and 71 whether it was the
24:16
petrodollar set it you know mechanisms and Saudi Arabia and
24:20
the 80s and 90s post 70s. The US dollar system is going to
24:25
do whatever it needs to survive as a net purchasing economy.
24:29
And not really care too much about the individual dollar
24:31
price and Bitcoin is kind of this perfect energy commodity
24:36
that can kind of replace the Petrol in the petrodollar.
24:40
And we can kind of connect Bitcoin to the dollar in this
24:44
sort of, Monopoly of the ins and outs of the Bitcoin system,
24:48
which is exactly how the petrodollar was, was, was
24:51
designed. And I think we should reject a
24:55
lot of that stuff. As as much as we can, as big It
24:59
coiners knowing and understanding full well that you
25:04
know, the u.s. dollar system is is a net negative for the world
25:10
and it was a tool that served its place.
25:14
And now we have a better one and we should move on.
25:19
Love it. I could you could you explain I
25:21
uq definitely touched on it but more more more.
25:27
Obviously, what do you guys mean?
25:28
You and Joe because I think you guys are the only ones that I've
25:30
heard say this the synthetic Petro dollar system.
25:34
Yeah. Yeah I mean again I kept at it,
25:37
get it gets back to that, you know.
25:41
So so you know, the dollar is digitized already.
25:45
So I think when we say synthetic pet, Dollar system, it means
25:49
you're taking you know, so again, so okay.
25:52
Well, we'll look at the petrodollar really quick, so we
25:55
cut off the tie from gold. You want to tie your fiat
25:58
currency to some sort of energy commodity because it means that
26:05
the fiat currency is pegged to something that's hard to
26:10
produce. So, gold is a fan, it was a
26:12
fantastic technological tool or money technical or financial
26:16
tool for a long. NG time because, you know, it
26:19
was hard to get out of the ground and there was an
26:23
extraction rate, you know, sub a couple percent that you could
26:27
even with modern, you know, gold mining that you could actually,
26:30
you know, increase the supply of gold.
26:33
It's like a 2% a year kind of thing and that that doesn't nice
26:37
thing where it kind of it you know it makes it makes the Fiat
26:42
money hard to just create out of willy-nilly.
26:46
So you want your Fiat tied to G. It makes a lot of sense.
26:50
So gold had a, had some issues with the way that the u.s.
26:55
dollar system wanted to grow and expand because of its extraction
26:58
rate out of the ground was like below the, the inflation rate
27:02
of, you know, what the dollars that we were printing, you know,
27:05
basically the world economy called our Bluff Charles de
27:08
Gaulle, came brought all his ships and grabbed all the gold
27:11
that France had given in the in the Bretton Woods system and you
27:15
know, brought it back to France. And there was a collapse in the
27:19
London Gold pool and you know all of these things happened and
27:22
then you know, Nixon you know, severed the the gold window.
27:26
But so we were kind of just free float in there for a while and
27:31
and you know, smartly even though I think it's incredibly
27:36
unethical and disgusting, they saw that, you know, oil was sort
27:40
of the new energy commodity that was necessary for all of these
27:44
countries that were industrializing.
27:46
So the u.s. went in and Military operation.
27:49
And basically spent the last 50 years mucking around in the
27:53
Middle East and creating and setting up, you know military
27:58
operations in order to create a monopoly on the buying and
28:04
selling of Petrol in the US dollar denominations.
28:08
So basically what they did is they created a mechanism to
28:12
offset their inflationary effects of of, you know, dollar
28:16
expansion inside the United States, and they always had a
28:20
buyer who needed to buy dollars first from their local
28:23
currencies to be able to buy oil if they wanted to industrialize,
28:27
everyone wanted to industrialize and needed to industrialize.
28:30
So you had guaranteed buyers. So you could print money and
28:33
print money and it was no problem.
28:36
So, that's kind of what the petrodollar is.
28:38
It's this system where, you know, we can blow out the
28:41
monetary Supply and we have guaranteed buyers.
28:45
And so when your digitizing and dollar I, you know, the There.
28:49
And whether it's, you know, these stable coins or Zell or
28:52
Bank of America or whatever, you know, there's digital dollars,
28:57
it's basically a synthesized, you know, Petro dollar
29:00
derivative because it's it's, you know, it's value.
29:04
Its monetary value is based on this Petro dollar Monopoly
29:07
mechanism and so I think that's what Joe means when he says
29:12
that. That's certainly what I mean
29:14
when I say it. So you're not just like, buying
29:17
a magical stable Coin token. It's like you're buying
29:20
government debt and you're participating or your boss or
29:23
you're paying someone who bought government debt to use their
29:27
bank account. Basically, if you buy, like a
29:28
tether or something, and so, that's sort of what I mean.
29:32
When it's, you know, you're creating rails to sell,
29:36
basically government debt. You know, two people in
29:38
Indonesia to unbanked people or to unbanked people in the global
29:43
South. You're like, Hey, by these in
29:45
effect, you're buying Petro dollar derivatives.
29:48
Because the mechanism that upholds, the value of the dollar
29:51
is the Petro dollar. And of course, I think that's
29:54
changed a lot. I think the last couple years,
29:57
we've moved away from the Petro dollar and a lot of ways, you
30:01
know, we've seen some really wacky things.
30:03
We've seen petrol trades between Russia and China settled in
30:08
Euros. I mean what the hell is that?
30:09
It doesn't even like, that's insane.
30:12
And we're seeing bricks we're seeing these, you know, the the
30:16
petrol Juan you know, you on You know, we're seeing these kind of
30:20
new competitors coming out that are looking at, you know, that's
30:24
been a kind of topic of the last, you know, few weeks is
30:27
this like d dollarization everyone.
30:29
It's like a buzzword and I think in a lot of ways, the dollar
30:32
system is stronger than ever against the world economy.
30:36
And we saw that with the appreciation of the Dixie and
30:39
sort of this relative strength index against other Global
30:42
currencies, we saw the pound go almost below a dollar.
30:46
We saw the Euro go below a dollar.
30:48
The US system has this mathematical issue that it needs
30:53
to deal with, which is this humongous debt.
30:56
We have like, 32 trillion dollars of debt and you, you
31:01
know, we're crushing demand and crushing tax receipts, by
31:04
jacking up, interest rates, we need to service our government
31:09
and we need to service our debt and there's a limit to how much
31:12
treasuries we really can sell. And so, you know, we're probably
31:18
Matically going to have to print to pay for this and it will
31:22
probably take longer than everybody thinks and they'll
31:24
probably raise rates a lot, you know, higher than everybody
31:26
thinks. But you know, it's just math.
31:29
I mean it really is it's runaway Debt Service and The Debt
31:33
Service now is so high. It's beyond the GDP growth of
31:36
the United States year-over-year.
31:39
So we're actually paying more money now to uphold our
31:43
currency, then we are to our military budget or our
31:47
government spending like just That service, which is kind of
31:50
one of those folk rooms were, like, once you pass that point,
31:52
it's like, why are we even doing this?
31:56
The only way this Ponzi kind of keeps going and it is a Ponzi is
32:00
if people are buying treasuries and buying government debt and
32:04
stable coins are just a really clever way to hide, you know,
32:07
billions and billions of dollars of Treasury sales and they kind
32:11
of hide behind this like virtue thing and not aren't really
32:14
necessarily always honest about, you know the real mechanism
32:17
behind the US Dollar system, which is pretty messed up.
32:21
I think that's where a lot of the, the shaking our fists and,
32:25
and saying things against the retail, CB D C's of stable
32:30
coins. Well, yeah, I mean, we say it
32:32
all the time on the show. It really is Bitcoin or slavery
32:35
and you know, anyone that's been around the Bitcoin space for a
32:38
while knows that stable coins are only stable until they're
32:40
not. And what, what's the mean, you
32:42
know, sats are my stable coin like to me on the Bitcoin
32:45
standard? I don't think I've ever felt
32:47
safer. Just like gel.
32:49
Bitcoind, this Bitcoins of stablest monetary Network in the
32:52
world like it's not the Bitcoin price, that's unstable.
32:55
It's the Fiat price against Bitcoin.
32:57
That's a stable. I want people at once you like
32:59
unplug from like the Fiat mindset, you're just like, oh
33:03
wait, why like why was I afraid of All This and like you're not
33:07
the first person actually you and Joe are not the first ones
33:10
to tell me. You like stable coins are the
33:12
enemy but you guys are the ones that you go so hard on Twitter
33:15
that I'm like, okay. Like we can have this
33:17
conversation. Ation now but it really is
33:19
amazing and you brought this up. So I'm kind of circling back a
33:22
little bit but it really is amazing that in the global South
33:26
like that. They do gravitate toward stable
33:28
coins first and it seems of less of a mental leap for most people
33:32
to jump into a stable coin versus, you know, jump into the
33:35
quote-unquote volatile Bitcoin standard and I like, I just I
33:40
really just doesn't make sense to me.
33:42
Obviously, I looked at the traditional Financial world,
33:45
through the Bitcoin land. So I want to ask you like, how
33:47
did you All this, did you look at the the Fiat world through
33:50
the Bitcoin Blend? Or did you look at Bitcoin
33:53
through the Fiat lens and then you wrap your head around?
33:55
What is actually going on? I mean, great question so a
34:01
couple answers I was lucky enough adopted, but was raised
34:06
by two CPAs, my mom and my dad run a an accounting firm outside
34:12
of Boston. I'm very different from them,
34:15
you know, but they taught me very, very, very well.
34:18
Well, and they had me like, you know, managing a fake checkbook.
34:22
When I was like, eight years old and learning about compounding
34:25
interest and back, when compounding interest in a
34:27
checking account existed. And, you know, I was really
34:31
exposed to sort of the value of a dollar really early on, I had,
34:36
you know, a sort of a leg up on financial literacy.
34:40
And so, you know, I can't deny that for sure, that was a huge
34:43
part of it. And then obviously, you know,
34:46
being able to talk to my parents about some of this F.
34:48
But I would say, definitely through the Bitcoin lens.
34:52
I mean, I was just living in the Bay Area and got exposed to
34:55
bitcoin, just literally like happenstance the guy that set up
35:00
soak Road 2.0 after Ross was arrested was a regular at my bar
35:03
and I didn't know he was doing that shit but he just explained,
35:06
you know Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, right?
35:10
Which it really was back. Then you know, when its monetary
35:12
policy was highly, you know, you know inflating, you know, 50% of
35:17
all I never were issued in the first Epoch and then 25% in the
35:21
next, you know, it's it makes sense that its main use was sort
35:24
of this medium of exchange. But anyway, 2017 happened got
35:28
sucked into Bitcoin again. I didn't really know that it
35:33
could go up. I didn't realize that it could
35:35
appreciate when I first, you know, heard about it.
35:37
I thought it was just like a way to buy drugs.
35:39
Basically and so yeah I got really exposed to bitcoin, you
35:46
know, like the the Sort of cast of characters in The Thought
35:51
leaders, if you will, I would say.
35:53
Honestly, mostly from watching the Keiser report, you know, I
35:57
was a huge Keiser report fan and, you know, during that era
36:00
twenty Seventeen eighteen nineteen and they just
36:03
introduced me basically to like everybody.
36:06
All the people that, you know, we all know and love and writers
36:08
and authors, and they had everybody on the show and now I
36:11
just got introduced to a new person every week.
36:13
Basically started reading a lot and Hi.
36:18
Yeah. It's like Bitcoin is so
36:20
multi-dimensional that. There's so many layers to get
36:22
lost into it. I love getting into some of the
36:24
Privacy stuff, the game theory like kind of system stuff but
36:28
I've really spent the last like year just really kind of being
36:31
obsessed with the dollar system. It's purposefully, you know,
36:37
obfuscated like the the the issues with the dollar system
36:41
ironically like, are that there are private parts of it that
36:46
people don't understand. Not like, it's the, it's the
36:51
lack of transparency of the dollar system and, and at why
36:54
they make it so difficult to really, you know, know what's
36:58
going on. I mean, it's not a mistake that
37:00
most people don't understand how the banking Plumbing works
37:03
because it is ridiculously complicated and every time
37:06
something breaks, they put up a new standing operation and
37:09
there's a new four letter, acronym, and a new rate.
37:13
And a new thing. I mean, it's happened.
37:14
I'm a young, I'm a relatively young guy and I've seen that the
37:18
New buzzword rate change like three times and I haven't even
37:21
been paying attention that long. So I would say Bitcoin really
37:26
was the like, you know, the the mindset switch.
37:31
But because of that, I had to look at the dollar system
37:34
because I was seeing that really like, you know, I would look at
37:37
charts and look at all these things.
37:38
And the thing that I found was the most correlated with the
37:41
Bitcoin price was the dollar Index and it was the strength of
37:45
the dollar and you could see when the dollar was going up,
37:47
Bitcoin was going down. In reverse.
37:50
And so I wanted to know how that worked.
37:53
And once you start digging at something like that, you just
37:56
start picking away at like the scab of the surface of the US
38:00
dollar system. And and next thing you know,
38:02
you're like wow, short-term interest rates rule everything
38:06
and then you're like, wait, no it's not really short term
38:08
interest rates. It's this overnight yield.
38:09
And and like you start looking at the politics and the history
38:13
of of the, you know, the FED chairs and how the Federal
38:16
Reserve started and And why the petrodollar system was set up.
38:20
And I mean, it's just so deep, there's so much history, so much
38:23
math and you and the beauty of it is that it's, you know, you
38:28
can, you can articulate a lot of it empirically, you know, like
38:32
through data points. So I did just like a lot of
38:36
research on a lot of these like, you know, pretty big important
38:40
moments in dollar system history that I had never heard of and
38:44
shout out to my boy Haldeman goo.
38:46
You know, he told me to look into This thing and 85 called
38:50
The Plaza Accord and I had literally never even heard of
38:53
it. And it was kind of the first big
38:57
coordinated Central Banking in like the Fiat era, where, you
39:02
know, the G5 at the time all got together in this little Hotel in
39:06
New York and basically all agreed to, you know, devalue the
39:09
Dollar by 50% in like six weeks and to promote growth and do all
39:14
these other things. Sometimes, as a strong dollar is
39:17
not good for the For the growth of the economy and an ironic way
39:21
if everything's priced in dollars.
39:22
That means everything is more expensive in this strange way,
39:24
you know, labor and inside the country domestically so they did
39:28
this big crazy coordinated thing and it's like, why would the US
39:31
dollar system agreed to do value?
39:34
Okay, clearly, there's something that I don't understand about
39:37
the dollar, that it would be within the u.s. dollars interest
39:40
and the government's interest to devalue the dollar against the
39:43
Yen. The, you know, the Yen against
39:45
the Deutsche Mark against the pound.
39:47
Like, why would we do this? And dude, it's just endless like
39:52
the dollar system is so crazy and I feel like I'm starting to
39:55
get like a relatively. Okay, kind of understanding on
39:59
like a 101 level of of how it works but like all even I'll end
40:03
it with this. I I bought my dad, you know,
40:06
I've been orange killing them for years and the last few years
40:09
he's like really got it. And one of the things that
40:11
really clicked for him was I gave him, Nick body has layered
40:14
money and he read it. And again my dad CPA, he He was
40:18
a he was a partner at Arthur Andersen and Ernst & Young, like
40:21
he worked at some of these like heavy accounting firms and he
40:24
read Nikki redneck bought his book and he sent me this really
40:27
funny email and he was like, man, I had no idea how much
40:30
trust was in the u.s. dollar system.
40:33
And it's like you're an accountant at one of the biggest
40:35
accounting firms in the US dollar system and you had no
40:39
idea about all the trust that's in this thing and and, you know,
40:43
I would talk to some of his, you know, his clients and his
40:46
friends, you know, you know. The in 2020 and 2021 when things
40:50
are popping off. People were really asking a lot
40:52
of questions and people would say to me like what business
40:54
school did you go to? I'm like no I went to music
40:57
school and I dropped out and then went back to school for
40:59
electrical engineering. I've never never studied
41:01
Business formerly at all and one of the dudes was like, that's
41:05
probably why, you know, so much about the dollar system, you
41:07
know, because it's like, I didn't learn the propaganda and
41:10
I just got to kind of look at it as this, like late-night kind
41:14
of, you know, nerd hobbyist. Dude.
41:16
That just like wanted to learn about.
41:18
Out, you know, the systems that control me, you know, basically
41:22
long and short and so Bitcoin definitely was the was the
41:26
reason to look. And then also, you know, it gave
41:28
me, you know, the time to look, you know, it's become my job.
41:32
Now to obsess over a weird thing and write a weird piece about it
41:36
and talk to people about it, you know.
41:37
Like this is what I do now. So Bitcoin has like, given me,
41:40
not only the, the interest to do it but also like the literal
41:44
time to do it. So yeah, I would say definitely
41:47
the Bitcoin lens. I'm winded, answer, absolutely
41:49
love it. Yeah man.
41:50
It really is amazing like how the dollar and economics in
41:54
general are just so complicated on purpose and yes like I was
41:58
completely oblivious to all this stuff and that's why I always I
42:02
always fall back to the Axiom of like keep it simple stupid.
42:05
And you know, like I learned everything through the Bitcoin
42:07
lens and it just really simplified and cut through all
42:10
the noise and now it's just like I look at traditional Financial
42:13
world or in you know, traditional economics.
42:16
I'm like what the hell are you guys?
42:18
Talking about like how do you guys make in sensor?
42:19
This is it makes absolutely no sense to me.
42:21
Like what are you guys even talk?
42:22
Does this make sense to you? Like I think I think there's a
42:25
there's a really important point there that Bitcoin is a state
42:28
change from the normal. I mean, it is a way to, you
42:33
know, basically create uncensored transactions without
42:36
a trusted third party. Like that's an insane thing.
42:41
This like probabilistic solution of the Byzantine, generals
42:44
problem is a state change of money.
42:48
So until you really see that there's an alternative, it is
42:51
kind of hard, maybe to just look at Fiat and see the issues
42:55
because it's like, you know, there isn't an alternative
42:58
that's easy to understand and drunk Bitcoin is a very weird
43:01
thing, it's a database, it's a commodity, it's money.
43:05
It's like I do, it's kind of none of those things.
43:07
I guess it's definitely a database and it's it's own
43:11
thing. It's a totally new you know,
43:15
form of trustless That's never really been possible before at
43:21
all. And then you get into the
43:23
monetary policy stuff and you look at the, you know, acts
43:26
absolute scarcity in a universe. That's like almost literally
43:31
infinite. I mean, it just just barely
43:33
under infant, you know, just humongous, you know, to create a
43:37
system that, you know, again, through probabilistic, you know,
43:41
Game Theory basically but it's a scarce capped economic unit of a
43:48
Now, like what the hell is that? I could never possibly exist in
43:51
any other Forum? There's no way to make to
43:53
create, you know, the synthetic commodity I guess without the
43:59
the the absolute advances technologically that Bitcoin
44:03
brings and its Downstream from the internet, you know.
44:05
It's like we didn't have this connectivity between all of us.
44:09
We wouldn't have an ability to operate Bitcoin and we're just
44:12
like now at a different place where yeah, we're kind of a
44:15
different species with the internet.
44:18
And the way that we connect with each other and the way that we
44:20
have access and can go and pull up instantly, you know, the vast
44:23
knowledge of recorded history and Bitcoin is like, you know,
44:27
the money protocol of that of this internet revolution in this
44:31
interconnectivity Revolution and it's a huge State chain.
44:34
So it's like I don't I don't ever get upset at anybody that
44:38
is having a hard time breaking off the Fiat world because you
44:42
know, it is such a big state change and you have to really
44:45
understand a lot about Bitcoins. To understand why, you know it's
44:50
so important. So I have a lot of patience for
44:53
folks that you know, are you know, still kind of bought in or
44:58
one foot in with to this other world.
45:00
I will say I'll end with this because I know I've been ranting
45:03
but you know it's the easiest time ever to Orange, Bill any
45:05
whole rant? It's just all right thanks.
45:08
So anyway. No it's the easiest time ever to
45:10
orange pill people. It's like just point out the
45:13
window. I mean like inflation is hot.
45:15
Everybody saw them Gaslight. Us and say that you know,
45:19
inflation is transitory. It's I'm not worried about it,
45:22
it's not, it's not that bad, you know?
45:25
And then all, you know, now here we are.
45:27
It's like you can't really ignore that stuff when the
45:30
Cycles get compressed and they happen so fast.
45:32
It's like we forgot what happened in 2008 a little bit,
45:35
you know, like a lot of people forgot about it because it had
45:38
been so long since the last time we basically had a default, you
45:43
know, 20 years or whatever. And now those Cycles are
45:45
compressing and it's like, okay, we Burke 2008.
45:49
Now, we've watched The Big Short 50 times.
45:52
You know, we live through it and there's really good content
45:56
about it. And now we have, you know, the
45:58
post covid bullshit and and all this.
46:00
So like yeah, the as the Cycles compress it gets easier and
46:05
easier to see why an alternative is necessary.
46:08
And then now we got banking things failing, we got fed now
46:11
coming out, we got, you know, this newbie tfd or whatever this
46:15
new fed operation. You know, it's like it's sort of
46:20
tangible. You can see, you know, there's
46:23
there's something brewing and and I think it's it's obvious.
46:27
I think a lot of people are getting the Bitcoin thing and I
46:31
it's cool to see, you know, I hate that I would hate to see
46:34
Bitcoin ization being led by a lot of pain and a lot of
46:37
Destruction and hurt people. I don't want to see that but at
46:42
least we have an alternative, you know, at least we have a way
46:45
to opt out and so, yeah. I mean yeah Bitcoin wow, human
46:51
psychology is weird man. Like you can what's the saying
46:54
lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink it but if
46:56
it's thirsty as hell, it's obviously going to be like give
46:59
me the solution. Exactly.
47:01
Exactly. Like it's almost like Bitcoin
47:03
was made for this exact moment, guys.
47:05
Like if it's almost like you have to sign for, it might be
47:08
causing. You know who the hell knows?
47:12
I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's something I look
47:14
at in this March 2020, bullshit, where I say the petrodollar.
47:18
I died and the Bitcoin dollar was born.
47:20
Yeah. So we saw some mathematical
47:23
crazy shit happened. We saw an oil, Futures Go -
47:27
overnight. That's a crazy trading anomaly.
47:31
That makes no seeming. Like we grew up our entire
47:33
lives. Like the US government like,
47:35
invading countries to get oil. Like, that's just like a Tuesday
47:38
for Americans. And all of a sudden were like,
47:41
pulling out of Afghanistan suddenly, and oils fucking
47:44
trading - and all of this is happening.
47:48
Right before a mathematical moment in the Bitcoin protocol,
47:51
which was, you know, the fourth happening, third having.
47:55
And it's when we went from, you know, relative issuance to below
48:00
2 percent which is, you know, below the rate of of the US
48:05
dollar Target inflation and certainly below the rate or
48:09
exactly at the rate depending on what part of the epoch of gold
48:12
coming out of the ground. So we're, we saw kind of a
48:15
mathematical moment. We saw a political moment, a
48:19
military moment, and then this crazy Futures anomaly in oil and
48:26
then what did we see? Obviously, you know, Bitcoin
48:29
imploded that day as well to 3,500 bucks.
48:32
But at 20 x 10 a year and when you see something like that
48:36
happening, it's like clearly something bigger is going on
48:40
here. There's some, you know, that's,
48:42
that's a pretty big Market. Anomaly and goes against
48:46
everything I've ever known about the This government, which is,
48:49
you know, basically oil based resource colonialism and
48:52
imperialism and making, you know, manipulating oil markets
48:57
with dollars and all of a sudden it's like, hey, we'll pay you -
49:00
you know, will pay a $50 to take a barrel of oil away from us and
49:04
obviously it's not that literal. But that's a wild thing.
49:08
I'm a big, Luke Roman guy and he always talks about, you know,
49:11
he's like he starts off all these things and I say this a
49:14
lot but he's just like no one has any idea what's going on?
49:17
This is Uncharted Territory for Traders and if anyone tells you
49:21
they know what's going on, no one's lived through this.
49:23
We've never been at this point where the US dollar system or
49:27
the reserve world currency, rather has basically run off the
49:30
cliff and it just hasn't fallen yet.
49:32
You know, it's like we can all see the math.
49:34
So we're in this Uncharted kind of place and it's like, I love
49:40
to flood Bitcoin and flood my own bags and try to find things.
49:44
And it's like, yeah, I would Want to be in anything else
49:48
right now. Personally.
49:50
Yeah man. I'm glad that Luke says the
49:53
same, you know, metaphor because I've been saying it, of course,
49:57
I like to break things down to the average person.
49:59
I'm like. All right guys, you guys
50:00
remember when Coyote and Roadrunner would Chase each
50:02
other and the coyote would run off the cliff.
50:04
Exactly. And then he'd look down and only
50:06
when he looked down what he actually fall off the cliff.
50:08
I'm like, yes, that's where we are right now.
50:10
People like this is where we are thousand percent.
50:14
Anyways, I'm sure we could do this forever but I know It
50:18
wouldn't be the right pod for an hour, the last 10, 15, maybe 20
50:22
minutes, whatever we have to do. If we didn't get into all the
50:25
heat, you've been a part of the last couple weeks or so.
50:28
So we have a comment here by Jaime.
50:30
I saw you guys are going back and forth and space.
50:32
He said, jpegs are cool, bro. Let's put them on the blog Tim
50:34
and sell them for a bunch bro. And I saw your article, I did do
50:37
some research over the weekend so I can kind of, you know, wrap
50:40
my head around the opposing view on it because personally and we
50:44
kind of talk touched on this in before we started going live.
50:47
I'm Kind of just the, you know, Bitcoin sound money.
50:50
Maxie I like totally coin as I would love.
50:53
And again, I'm just one person but Bitcoin, as a purely
50:57
monetary, you know, database. Like that's kind of how I look
51:00
at it and so seeing what's happening with ordinals and
51:03
inscriptions the last couple I think it's what like two months
51:06
or something. It does seem like they have been
51:09
adding bloat to the blockchain and you keep mentioning Magoo
51:13
and I did see this tweet. Let me see if I have it
51:15
actually, this one's pretty good.
51:17
I really like this. This and this is you memeing,
51:18
you go Magoo goes, I don't know who is the Arbiter of morality,
51:22
but I do know it's not me or Bitcoin consensus and you go, my
51:25
man spitting. Is this the free market is this?
51:27
The free market and then McGill again, just because you can do
51:30
something with Bitcoin? Doesn't mean you should do it
51:32
100%. I think this is where I'll let
51:35
you come in. What's your thoughts?
51:37
I think I also have some more tweets here.
51:39
But yeah, a total interest of time.
51:42
Maybe you could do like a steel man for and and the Addition.
51:48
And then what? All have a little convo and
51:50
roll. This one out.
51:51
Yeah, thousand percent. And and first off like I just
51:53
want to say like I think the criticism and a lot of ways is
51:59
valid, you know, this is a this is a new thing.
52:03
And, you know, people have used the free market and public goods
52:07
and commodities to scam people all over the place.
52:11
That's not a new thing like. So I think people are really
52:15
wary of this stuff. Because you know, they've just
52:19
seen historically, this type of technology has been used to just
52:22
screw people over do pump and dumps and all that stuff.
52:24
So like I understand the pushback on that.
52:26
Personally I have no interest in buying or selling ordinals, I
52:30
don't own any, I have no interest in buying them, I don't
52:34
endorse any collections or anything like that on a personal
52:37
level. I think you should save your
52:38
satoshi's, but I think it's really important to talk about
52:41
like, you know, this is the thing that people care about and
52:45
we've seen a million of them, come on.
52:48
Last couple months. And there's a lot of really
52:51
interesting use cases for this technology.
52:53
That no one really wants to talk about her consider because you
52:57
know, the first use case is put monkey jpegs on the blockchain,
53:03
and firstly, I think Bitcoin is a public good and so people
53:06
should be able to do what they want on it and I will fight to
53:11
the death for the right for someone that even if they're my
53:14
enemy and I hate them to be able to make a valid Bitcoin.
53:17
Is action without my ethics or my bias preventing that.
53:21
I mean, that's why Bitcoins use case exists, right?
53:23
It's that true, no trusted, third parties, and uncensored
53:26
transactions. So the thing that Magoo was
53:30
saying that I completely agree with is just because something
53:34
is within Bitcoin consensus doesn't not mean it's fuckin
53:37
shitty or unethical or a scam you know?
53:40
Like it's of completely valid Bitcoin transaction.
53:42
If I say yo Opti, send me one Bitcoin and I'll send you to and
53:46
then I just keep your Bitcoin. That shitty like that's a bad
53:49
thing to do. That's this Thrifty scammy
53:51
thing. So there was a lot of people and
53:54
I say this on both sides like I think both sides kind of of the
53:57
debate have been kind of lazy in the sense that just because you,
54:01
as Magoo said, just because something's within consensus,
54:04
doesn't make it good. There's pinning attacks, there's
54:06
lightning probes, there's donations scams, you know,
54:08
there's plenty of things within consensus that are bad, so this
54:12
idea that like, well, it's within consensus.
54:14
So, screw it, like, screw you. It's like, well, that doesn't
54:16
necessarily mean it's the right? Thing to do and that was Magoo's
54:19
point and I totally agree. I also think that, you know,
54:24
this idea a lot of people talk about, you know, oh it's just
54:28
this arbitrary code and or it is just this social lens to look at
54:33
Bitcoin and it's arbitrary and who cares?
54:36
And there's a part of that that's true.
54:38
In the sense of Satoshi distribution within
54:41
transactions, you know, satoshis don't exist there.
54:44
This, you know, this is unit that exists on UTI.
54:47
Those but like when the you T x0 is destroyed and new ones are
54:50
made, like there's aren't the same satoshi's that transfer.
54:53
So the ordered index creates this kind of like you know,
54:56
logical Assumption of first, in first out.
54:59
But like that's not true. You know, there's no Tracer.
55:02
There's no, there's nothing that connects the SAT from one new
55:04
txo to the other at all. Unless you make this sort of
55:08
social lens to create a sentimental value to this this
55:12
Satoshi, but the code itself isn't like arbitrary.
55:16
Like there's a code to the way or an index works and there's
55:19
like thousands and thousands and thousands of people that use it.
55:23
And so I think that argument is also week that it's this
55:25
arbitrary thing. It's like no it's a social
55:28
consensus with literal code that's built on top of Bitcoin.
55:31
Just like a lot of other stuff, it's not completely arbitrary.
55:38
So I think the tooling as a whistle blowing time, stamping
55:45
data, durability, and immutability As again, as
55:50
tooling, I think is incredibly powerful and like me as a
55:54
journalist. And as someone who really cares
55:57
about whistleblowers and the ability for people to do that, I
56:00
think Bitcoin is like the this this unbelievable, you know,
56:05
truth database. This commodity that is
56:09
accessible unfettered to anyone on the planet that can, you
56:13
know, pay the fee to get into the block and I think that's
56:16
like way more powerful than than BitTorrent in a lot of ways and
56:19
way more powerful than, you know, a 4chan message board or,
56:23
you know, some of these other services that people have
56:25
suggested kind of just using in lieu of, you know, in describing
56:28
something. So, I, I think that there's so
56:31
many use cases that are incredibly like, like, I mean,
56:36
we're seeing, you know, basically people editing, you
56:42
know, the, the public record in so many ways, there's so many,
56:45
there's so much corruption. There's so much.
56:47
Censoring there's so much Di platforming and like we really
56:53
just need to look at like kind of the last couple years of like
56:55
misinformation from everybody. To kind of see that it's like
57:00
you know this is there's there's an absolute need in this world
57:04
for truth and Bitcoin can can can now kind of serve as a with
57:10
this tooling as a database that is immutable and durable And
57:16
Timely. And that's incredibly powerful
57:18
that that's never existed before.
57:21
And I think it's very naive for people to reject that tooling.
57:27
And I think also it's kind of dumb maybe for the first use
57:30
cases to be selling jpegs. Like, I don't think that's the
57:34
best use case for this tooling, but I will defend the right for
57:38
anyone to use it forever. I don't even think that should
57:40
be controversial. Bitcoin is a database and
57:44
Bitcoin has its own motives beyond our human desires for
57:47
what Bitcoin. Is and Bitcoin itself as a
57:50
protocol wants to create as many reachable nodes as possible.
57:54
And it wants to increase demand for its block space.
57:58
You know, at the end of the day, we say, you know, kw/h or
58:01
Satoshi or whatever, but like, the unit of account of Bitcoin
58:04
is sat 4V B. You know, if there's no blocks,
58:06
based demand, it doesn't matter how much the US dollar value of
58:09
it is worth, what is going to sustain Bitcoin, post issuance
58:14
and probably well before post issuance is transaction.
58:17
These and that comes down stream of there being interest in
58:21
demand for the block space asset itself.
58:24
So what has ordinals done? Its created thousands of more
58:27
reachable nodes with a quasi Financial incentive to remain
58:33
archival nodes. Depending if they want, you
58:36
know, to be able to ensure that their witness data of this thing
58:40
that they've created, you know, exist forever.
58:42
They're going to want to run this.
58:43
So we created more reachable nodes, more economic nodes
58:47
Increased. The demand for Block space and
58:52
with this entire new use case for Bitcoin the database and
58:57
that's what Bitcoin wants and it may not be what we want and we
59:01
may want to, you know, pull the Roger ver and pull up the first
59:04
line of the the Bitcoin white paper and say, it says,
59:07
peer-to-peer cash guys. And it's like, well, there's a
59:10
lot of things people use Bitcoin for that have nothing to do with
59:13
peer-to-peer cash. They have their decentralized
59:16
IDs there. You know, stable coin providers,
59:20
there's there's payment rails. There's time stamping itself
59:24
already in it opportune, there's other use cases for Bitcoin
59:27
email, addresses, sailor, just announced email addresses for
59:30
lightning or whatever. And so this idea that like this
59:34
use case is okay in this one's not, I think is it would be
59:38
exhausting to try to decide that with this with this public good?
59:44
It seems like there's a little bit of selected outrage in that
59:47
sense. So we look at the metrics of
59:50
what ordinals is done in terms of like, you know, increasing
59:53
demand for Block space and making more nodes and getting
59:58
more people interested into Bitcoin.
1:00:01
I just don't know how you can really deny that that that truth
1:00:06
and yeah I think that there's there's absolutely some very
1:00:10
valid criticism about creating a token that you know a token.
1:00:15
Again it's all Bitcoin entirely Bitcoin this is Bitcoin.
1:00:17
In space. But I think you know there's
1:00:21
there's some valid criticism about people, you know, thinking
1:00:23
that it's unethical to, you know, claim that there's an
1:00:28
Associated sat with this arbitrary witness data because
1:00:32
based off this like arbitrary or index thing and you trying to
1:00:35
sell it for more money than its Satoshi value.
1:00:39
Like I think there are some valid criticisms there depending
1:00:43
on how it's done. I think it's very clear what we
1:00:46
did on. Day was absolutely not a pump
1:00:49
and dump and absolutely not money, laundering, or any of
1:00:52
this bullshit. That people were saying that we
1:00:53
were doing. It's like we had very low volume
1:00:56
and we had some really happy buyers that were interested in
1:00:58
buying a physical mag and an ordinal associated with it, and
1:01:02
they seem pretty stoked. And, you know, I think that
1:01:06
that's okay. I don't think that there's, you
1:01:09
know, you're not touching Ponzi rails.
1:01:12
You're not feeding the tallix bags.
1:01:15
You're not selling someone. You know, the sort of off chain,
1:01:20
you know, non-native like you know, you know, fetch of a JPEG
1:01:24
somewhere. It's like, it's all, it's all on
1:01:26
the chain and it helps Bitcoin in so many ways.
1:01:30
And this isn't a block size increase.
1:01:32
This isn't a protocol consensus change its tooling and I think
1:01:38
that this stuff is going to get priced out, like, I don't think
1:01:41
we're going to see huge amounts of inscriptions at the rate that
1:01:45
we've seen when Financial traction, you know,
1:01:48
transactions, you know, are ready?
1:01:51
And we're ready to have full blocks of complete Financial
1:01:53
transactions when we're ready for that.
1:01:56
I mean, ordinals just don't scale like that and that will
1:01:59
make the old ones a lot rarer I suppose, depending on how you
1:02:02
want to look at it. But it's going to be really,
1:02:04
really, really hard at, you know, when it's a variable fee
1:02:07
market and if it 10 x's and you're paying $1000 for an
1:02:10
inscription, that's ten thousand dollars.
1:02:12
If you're paying five cents is 50 Cent's, it's a much.
1:02:14
It's a much smaller. You know, rate change when
1:02:18
you're paying a much smaller fee.
1:02:19
So these things don't really scale that well.
1:02:23
And you know, one of the things that we were excited about
1:02:29
Taproot for was privacy that was one of the main things and, you
1:02:36
know, in some scaling stuff. But one of the main ways that
1:02:38
privacy Works in a utx model system and really in general is
1:02:42
by having an increased in an amenity set.
1:02:44
And right now, we have basically Leah floating raft of
1:02:50
transactions that are paid a Taproot scripts that are waiting
1:02:54
to get included into blocks. You know, on a low, sat / v b
1:02:59
rate. That's really good for building
1:03:03
out privacy on the base layer you want to see coin swaps you
1:03:08
know, you want to exchange, you know, come out of an exchange
1:03:10
and do a coin Swap and do a paid a Taproot, you know, it doesn't
1:03:13
matter if you're the only one using Taproot, you're the only
1:03:16
one, you know, there's a There's a much easier ways to trace that
1:03:20
if there's not a lot of activity in paid a Taproot scripts.
1:03:23
Well, now we have a shit ton of activity in that.
1:03:27
So it's like I'm just looking at every metric and it's just like,
1:03:29
it's kind of hard to, you know, really see where this is
1:03:33
actually really bad for Bitcoin outside of the fact that it
1:03:38
absolutely of course, enables people to be able to be
1:03:42
unethical and sell shitty tokens under the, you know, not tokens
1:03:46
but you know, Bitcoin Either under the the claims that is
1:03:49
going to appreciate and that's shitty.
1:03:51
I think that's stupid. That's not that's I don't care
1:03:53
about that stuff at all but all the other stuff seemingly is
1:03:56
like pretty objectively, good for Bitcoin and I guess I
1:04:00
shouldn't say that but it's objectively.
1:04:01
Good for Bitcoin by these empirical metrics.
1:04:06
And yeah I mean I guess I just sort of, I knew people would
1:04:11
freak out about it and I think people will continue to freak
1:04:13
out about it and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way.
1:04:18
But you know, Casey who created ordinals is a really good friend
1:04:22
of mine and I've been talking to him about this for a long time,
1:04:25
a lot longer than most people have realized ordinals existed.
1:04:29
The first writing that I know of was in Q2 2022 of the print
1:04:34
magazine talking about ordinals, I don't know anyone else.
1:04:36
That was really talking about it before, and he's a Savage,
1:04:40
Savage Savage, Bitcoin Maxi and he built something that he
1:04:46
thought was. Actively good for Bitcoin and
1:04:49
was going to help Bitcoin adoption help node counts help
1:04:53
with you know up in transaction fees for minors Revenue which is
1:04:58
really what propels the system. If you're a monetary policy
1:05:02
maximalist that comes down stream from protocol policy, and
1:05:06
protocol health. And I'm a monetary maximalist to
1:05:09
that's why I'm in this shit. That's why I fucking stay up all
1:05:11
night reading about Paul volcker.
1:05:13
It's because I want to know about this shit.
1:05:15
I don't, I don't, I'm not, I I'm not really, you know and nft guy
1:05:21
in any way at all. But this is good for the
1:05:24
protocol, the Bitcoin and I think Casey designed it in a
1:05:29
very specific way to be very good for Bitcoin.
1:05:31
It's packaged in this op fail, you know envelope of code that
1:05:37
doesn't cause your node to need to validate it.
1:05:40
It's it takes less computation to validate a an inscription
1:05:45
than it does like a lightning Channel.
1:05:48
You know, these are very, very pruna below.
1:05:50
If you don't want to you know pass a certain point, you know,
1:05:53
you don't need to hold on to this data.
1:05:54
If you don't want to it's not bloating, the UT.
1:05:56
Exocet it was created very specifically to be as healthy
1:06:00
for Bitcoin as possible and minimize the the pain points,
1:06:05
the granular points, and maximize the utility and
1:06:09
increased nodes and increased demand.
1:06:12
And I don't think you know, again, it's always impossible to
1:06:16
exactly see See when you make tooling and create new
1:06:19
incentives like how it will all play out of course.
1:06:22
But like you know it was done very deliberately in a very
1:06:27
specific way as sort of a love letter sort of thing to bitcoin.
1:06:32
And and I he's convinced me and I think that the the technology
1:06:39
and the adoption proves that and there's a powerful thing going
1:06:43
on and I think that there's a lot of blame that needs to be
1:06:46
put on Maxie is for not understanding.
1:06:49
And I'm a maxi that not understanding that this is Maxie
1:06:52
technology built for Maxis to completely defang the these
1:06:57
these these leeches of alternative currencies that are
1:07:00
claiming to have a use case, when they don't.
1:07:02
And this very clearly takes away, you know, this, this, you
1:07:06
know, one of the main use cases of etherium with this nft shit,
1:07:09
it just completely destroys it, it takes away this fucking
1:07:12
bullshit of bsv of, you know, storage on the, you know, it
1:07:15
takes away the to use cases from these like to Idiot annoying.
1:07:18
You know, hemorrhoids on bitcoin and it brings everybody back
1:07:22
home to bitcoin, it's like II, see it very much?
1:07:26
So as a wonderful thing for Bitcoin, you know, as long as of
1:07:31
course, you know, we understand as a community, kind of like
1:07:34
what our moral floor is and I think that was sort of why we
1:07:37
did this kind of Dutch auction. And the way that we did it, we
1:07:39
were like, listen, these are partially sign.
1:07:41
Bitcoin transactions. Absolutely.
1:07:43
No one on staff is buying these. Absolutely, no one is pumping
1:07:46
and dumping we're not. Money laundering.
1:07:48
If we don't sell a bunch of them like good then people will know
1:07:52
that we're fucking being like, you know, sincere and we're not
1:07:55
trying to do Shady bullshit. Don't sign the priests on
1:07:57
bitcoin transaction. If you don't believe that the
1:08:00
collectible and the content that's related to this purchase
1:08:04
is worth it for you. And I, we knew we'd get a lot of
1:08:08
flack for it, and but I think we stand by, you know, we all have
1:08:12
very, very different opinions on this all across the company.
1:08:16
And I think it's very Nuanced, within even the individuals like
1:08:21
the way I feel, you know, free market capitalism, it's not
1:08:25
hurting Bitcoin, it's objectively, good for Bitcoin
1:08:27
and the tooling is fucking bad ass and we can do so much cool
1:08:31
shit with it. We can put STL files on there,
1:08:33
we can put banned books on there.
1:08:35
We can create Bounty systems. You know where where
1:08:39
investigative journalist can look up and be like, hey, I'm
1:08:42
looking for this piece, this tady cable this this, you know,
1:08:47
you know, Classified leak, and people can can inscribe it and
1:08:51
it, you know, it's durable, and it's immutable and it's timely
1:08:55
and that's the state change for information as well.
1:08:58
So like yeah, let's let the market cook, let's let Bitcoin
1:09:01
cook. It's not about us, it's not
1:09:02
about me. Well, let the market decide and
1:09:08
yeah. Like let's see where this thing
1:09:10
goes. We're going to price out jpegs,
1:09:11
real quick. And and when we do, I think, I
1:09:14
think people will see that there's a real use case for
1:09:16
inscriptions. It's far beyond sentimental
1:09:19
speculation in a way that I think is really good for Bitcoin
1:09:23
and Bitcoin owners in the long term.
1:09:24
Yeah, I'm sure this could be a whole other podcast on its own.
1:09:28
So at the, at the risk of cutting this a little short for
1:09:31
you guys and I'll bring mark back on another time, you know,
1:09:33
like personally, I don't care about jpegs and I don't see
1:09:36
jpegs, having a significant market share in the future.
1:09:38
Like like you said, I think it will get priced out, but smarter
1:09:42
people than me have mentioned that there may be some
1:09:44
interesting development in regards to the size of Tap Root
1:09:48
and put and what may be possible in the future and again, like I,
1:09:51
you know, that's above my pay grade.
1:09:53
But like again, before I get Flack for this, like, I think
1:09:56
jpegs are stupid. But in still, in CAD files on
1:09:59
the blockchain for 3D prints, like, I don't know, that's kind
1:10:02
of cool and my sound money Maximus and me like, cringes,
1:10:05
when I say that, like, I do feel like a shit Corner saying this
1:10:07
guy. So, don't throw me through the
1:10:08
mud yet. But like, you know, the, the
1:10:11
sound money maximus in me. It does feel like it's an
1:10:14
artificially inflated fee price and maybe it's a bit premature.
1:10:18
I know. I know we're always worried
1:10:20
about like when the block subsidy Runs Out will to be a
1:10:23
significant price floor in Fleet in fees to ensure that the
1:10:26
Bitcoin Network continues to you know, go on into the future.
1:10:30
So like again like I think kind of and and this isn't like the
1:10:35
the standard cop out of like let the free market do what it does
1:10:40
and you can scam on the free market and you know, right?
1:10:43
No social layer to that aspect really.
1:10:45
All right, we're very con concept.
1:10:47
What's it called on, you know, the see where it where we're
1:10:50
very aware of, of this conscious launcher.
1:10:53
Yeah, but now it's calmed conscientious now, there's a g
1:10:57
in there. So anyways it doesn't really
1:10:59
matter but I think I think this will play out in time and we
1:11:04
will see if there is any actual development out of this or
1:11:07
whether this is kind of like a shit coin money, grab and oh
1:11:11
that's feeling like oh this is a quick way to make a buck and you
1:11:14
know a ploy to get moisture Corners back on bitcoin.
1:11:17
Coin. When it's like a lot of times
1:11:20
most of the most of the shit Corners, just don't understand
1:11:22
Bitcoin. They don't understand big really
1:11:23
from like a sound money principles like Foundation but
1:11:28
you did say something. And again, we're at we're at an
1:11:30
hour and 11 so I'm sure we could go on for a lot longer.
1:11:33
But you did say something that kind of interested me and you
1:11:37
said something on the ideas of the public good that Bitcoin
1:11:40
network is a public good. And, you know, you said it on
1:11:45
the flip side about like, who am I Control what the public does
1:11:49
on the free market but it does feel like back to that Magoo
1:11:52
tweet you know just because we can doesn't mean we should and I
1:11:55
cuz it coin is a public good. I feel like we do need some
1:11:59
healthy, respect to the common good.
1:12:01
That is Bitcoin and maybe you know, looking at our own
1:12:05
behavior and realizing okay. Is this High Time For Infants
1:12:08
behavior in my am I getting a quick dopamine Rush way?
1:12:11
And it really felt like the last couple of months, there was a
1:12:14
lot of fees that were being out priced because of This
1:12:18
artificial again, I'm using the term artificial price raise of
1:12:23
the fees and, like, I was over paying fees and I'm like, damn,
1:12:26
like you ordered an old motherfuckers like why am I over
1:12:29
paying my fees right now? I just need to make a
1:12:31
transaction so I can survive. But I understand that, you know,
1:12:34
I am just one person and yes, there is a social layer in
1:12:37
Bitcoin. And yes, there is people that
1:12:39
want to, you know, Tinker and develop.
1:12:42
And I think we are seeing in real time like a healthy balance
1:12:45
of the free-market. Trying to figure this out.
1:12:47
Is there something here worth while, or is this just kind of,
1:12:52
you know, playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes?
1:12:55
But on another note, and you can have the last word on this.
1:12:57
Um, not only on this question but in general, I saw on Twitter
1:13:02
that might have been last week. But was there like a huge bug
1:13:06
recently with ordinals or something?
1:13:08
And one of the, the latest developments, I saw that they
1:13:10
lost a lot of inscriptions and they're thinking about rolling
1:13:14
it back or I know there was exactly what it was.
1:13:17
Yeah. So, So basically, yeah, hold on.
1:13:20
Jamie Jamie Gets A cognizant. Thank ya, thank you, brother,
1:13:25
and don't hate me too much. I'm sorry.
1:13:30
Okay, so there was a thing. It's funny that it's really come
1:13:33
up recently because I think it was in like February, but there
1:13:38
was a bug in the ORD software that didn't recognize
1:13:45
inscriptions that Were made only in the sense of the serial
1:13:51
number. You know, like first inscription
1:13:53
is 0 and scription one and script into it.
1:13:55
You know, up to two point one quadrillion or whatever, there
1:13:59
was a bug in the serialization ordering of when, if if this
1:14:07
Associated sat that was you know, connected to the the
1:14:12
witness data to the inscription. If it wasn't the first input in
1:14:17
the Actual inscription funding transaction.
1:14:20
So, there was about, like, 1,200 inscriptions that were made
1:14:27
before they notice, that, that was happening.
1:14:30
So they fixed it. We're now moving forwards, you
1:14:32
know, you can inscribe on multiple multiple inscriptions
1:14:35
on a SAT, you know, you can be the second input.
1:14:38
So, you know, it's sort of moving forward, everything is
1:14:40
totally fine, but there was a sort of a decision to be made of
1:14:44
like okay well we actually have these 1,200 inscriptions.
1:14:47
They're on the blockchain, they're totally their Windows
1:14:50
data, they will never not be there.
1:14:52
And obviously the SATs are there, there's just a numbering
1:14:56
Miss in that, you know. So, basically, there's 1200
1:15:00
inscriptions that were numbered. I think starting somewhere and
1:15:04
the 300,000 somewhere. Like that, I'm not exactly sure.
1:15:08
So they had a community decision, I guess to decide what
1:15:10
they wanted to do. If they wanted to push all of
1:15:13
the inscriptions that had made made pass that 1200 up or if
1:15:16
they wanted to To, you know, what would be better for the
1:15:19
holders of those inscriptions to make it there its own set and
1:15:23
like a different number as sort of these like rare, you know,
1:15:28
miscounted inscription. So, that was the bug, it had
1:15:31
nothing to do with the, I mean, everything's in the box and
1:15:35
they're in the witness data. All of the inscriptions are safe
1:15:39
or fine exist, whatever that means to you.
1:15:43
There was just yeah 1200 that weren't listed and It was a
1:15:47
community decision, I guess to decide, what they were going to
1:15:50
do with it. I don't actually know what they
1:15:52
did with it. But yeah, I mean anytime you
1:15:56
know there's a mistake made by someone or something, you know,
1:16:00
there's there's people really want to come after ordinals and
1:16:03
hate on it, which I totally get. And so yeah, there was a, there
1:16:09
was a bug in the code and this like Alpha, you know, beta code
1:16:13
that yeah, that they had to account for.
1:16:17
For I guess. So I'm not exactly sure what
1:16:21
they decided on but I know that they decided on something and
1:16:26
yeah so awesome. Well Mark we did go over about
1:16:30
15 minutes. They want to give some Last
1:16:32
Words tie a bow tied to this. Yeah totally.
1:16:35
Yeah for sure. Um yeah just wanted to say I
1:16:39
guess just in general like not as a cop out but you know
1:16:42
Bitcoin magazine is a free speech.
1:16:46
You know Bitcoin. Quino only bitcoiners platform
1:16:50
and we love to platform and do things that doesn't always go.
1:16:55
Well with the people that are our base.
1:16:57
I mean, I remember when we did the censorship resistance cover,
1:17:01
you know, people were dming me and being like you and ons, a
1:17:03
bad look for Bitcoin magazine. And it's like, okay this what
1:17:07
the hell are you talking about? And then we did the bouquet lay
1:17:09
cover and the buck and people were like, statism is a terrible
1:17:13
look for it's like, okay I get that, you know, we get that
1:17:16
people got upset. About the SPF cover a little
1:17:19
bit, you know. And and, and also within the
1:17:23
magazines itself, we have, you know, some really good pieces
1:17:27
from people that, you know, believe things that maybe a lot
1:17:29
of other people, don't, you know, depending what side of the
1:17:32
climate, you know, debate you stand on.
1:17:35
You know, we've had people writing about how this is
1:17:38
bullshit and we should just totally ignore it and people
1:17:40
writing like hey if this is a reality how can Bitcoin help?
1:17:44
And I think it would be a loss to not consider a not You know,
1:17:48
platform bitcoiners because as Bitcoin gets more and more
1:17:51
adopted, what it means to be a Bitcoin or changes.
1:17:55
And again, it's really not about us and it's about bitcoiners and
1:17:59
that does not mean that we should start fucking scamming
1:18:01
people because there are scammers and Bitcoin.
1:18:03
I don't mean that. But, you know, we're going to
1:18:06
continue to do weird shit Bitcoin and represent
1:18:09
bitcoiners. And like, you just really can't
1:18:11
deny, ordinals are a Fang to some degree and I don't know
1:18:15
what we'll do in the future with them.
1:18:17
But I do know that Bitcoin is for everyone and you know it's
1:18:23
not it's not my place to be the Arbiter of you know what, what
1:18:27
people can't or shouldn't use Bitcoin for.
1:18:29
And I want to hear their voice. So like you got a fucking Aunty
1:18:33
ordinal pitch and you want to, you want to, you know, get that
1:18:37
out there, like, talk to me reach out to me, like, I'm a
1:18:40
good-faith engage. I have a lot of friends in the
1:18:42
company and outside that think this stuff is total fucking
1:18:45
horseshit and they have a lot of valid points.
1:18:47
And then I have other people that are total D, Jen's and love
1:18:50
this shit. And it's like the most fun
1:18:51
they've ever had in Bitcoin and they're so excited and I think
1:18:53
that they're right too. So you know come find us at
1:18:57
Bitcoin magazine we're about to we may have already launched the
1:18:59
new magazine in this call. I'm not sure.
1:19:03
But we got a new one just about to come out.
1:19:05
I'm very excited about it. Yeah, please support Bitcoin
1:19:08
magazine. I'll see you in Miami.
1:19:11
You know, please reach out and you know, come come come, come
1:19:14
join us. Be on our platform and and you
1:19:16
know, I know that this isn't this homage homogenic thing.
1:19:20
Bitcoiners are continuing to get weirder, and stranger and and,
1:19:25
you know, and be a different thing every day.
1:19:28
So you know come hop along, you can follow me at Mark Goodwin
1:19:31
with an underscore between the W and the i n obviously at Bitcoin
1:19:34
magazine.com and get by the print mag and always listen to
1:19:39
Simply Bitcoin. Yeah it's good.
1:19:41
That I was going to tell them what are you working on but
1:19:44
obviously everyone have their working on.
1:19:47
Yeah. And I finished a book called the
1:19:48
Bitcoin dollar that hopefully will be out before the end of
1:19:51
the year that talks about a lot of the stuff we talked about
1:19:53
today and yeah man, dude off these fucking thanks so much for
1:19:58
having me on brother. It's so much fun and yeah, give
1:20:00
some love to Nico. And yeah, do it again any time.
1:20:04
And well do brother? Yeah, well we'll bring you on a
1:20:07
little bit. Maybe maybe after the next
1:20:09
controversy will help you get you back on.
1:20:11
It may have already happened, I don't know man, just happen.
1:20:13
Who knows but yeah man, really appreciate this the Meaning of
1:20:17
this was pure fire. I know the end got a little
1:20:19
contentious but really appreciate it Mark.
1:20:21
I can't wait to hang out with you in Miami.
1:20:23
And well, we'll grab a beer, or whatever, whatever whatever the
1:20:28
extracurriculars are at that party.
1:20:30
Yes. A little Topo Chico for me.
1:20:32
And then exactly let me roll this out, hang out for a moment
1:20:37
and I'll talk to you behind the scenes.
1:20:38
Sounds great. All right guys, well I hope you
1:20:41
guys enjoyed this. I know this one's a little
1:20:43
different than all the other TTS I've done, but I've been seeing
1:20:46
Mark and Joe Hard on the, you know, Bitcoin real stable coin,
1:20:50
cbc's and I wanted to get that information out, of course, I
1:20:53
probably could have gone two hours with him maybe the next
1:20:55
time I can get Joe and Mark to come in together that might be a
1:20:58
live podcast. Anyways, I know the and got a
1:21:01
little contentious. I saw you guys in the chat,
1:21:03
getting a little spicy. I appreciate all of you guys,
1:21:07
again, I think this is kind of part of the process of everyone.
1:21:12
Not only learning the, the full potential of Bitcoin, but also
1:21:17
standing, The ground and doing what they think is, right and
1:21:19
but I do definitely believe in the idea of if we can't have
1:21:23
these discussions. What are we doing?
1:21:26
We're just in an echo chamber. And hey, I love my echo chamber,
1:21:28
boys and girls but I think this is all good for Bitcoin.
1:21:32
So here we are really hope you guys enjoyed this pod.
1:21:36
Go check out the physical print. I absolutely love them.
1:21:39
I'm glad that Joe is my neighbor right now and I can I can read
1:21:42
the magazines and stuff so I'll see you guys tomorrow.
1:21:46
Of course this is just TTL. We will be live tomorrow 12:15
1:21:50
p.m. eastern time on simply Bitcoin so really appreciate all
1:21:54
you guys. I will see you tomorrow have a
1:21:56
good rest of your day. Let's keep spreading that
1:21:59
Bitcoin signal. Alright peace out guys.