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Episode Two Hundred Seventy Two: Week Of Horror · The Death Of Journalism

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Death of Journalism podcast. My name is
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: John Zigler. I'm your host of today's show. It has
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: been a very busy and tragic week in the news,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and we'll try to get to all of it. Public
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: mass shootings, the brutal murder of Rob Reiner and his wife,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and Trump's reaction. Susy Wilds blames the Vanity Fair for
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: her own attacks on the Trump White House. The candae
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: owens Erica Kirkfield goes nuclear and Michigan's football coach gets
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: fired for cause and arrested on the same day, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the story is somehow already largely faded away. It has
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: been a week of horror all over the world. We
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: have the story in Australia where Jews are slaughtered at
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the beginning of Hanukkah. We have the shooting at the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: University of Brown, Brown University, where we still do not
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: even know the identity of the shooter, where two people
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: are dead and many others are wounded. We have the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: brutal slaying of Rob Reiner and his wife. All sorts
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: of terrible news going on in the world that is
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: really kind of difficult to comprehend. The Australian news is
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: really probably the most disturbing for a number of reasons.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Although there were some videos of heroism that came out
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: of that horrific situation. I just do not understand, I
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: really do not understand what seems to be a wave
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: of anti Semitism that has spread throughout the entire world,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: in which we're seeing even here in the United States,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: even within the conservative movement, which I do think plays
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a role in the entire Candae Owens controversy, which we'll
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: get to shortly. As far as what's going on at Brown,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the cluelessness or the apparent cluelessness that is going on
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: with regard to that investigation, it's really very easy as
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: a conservative to look at that and go, well, gee,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: this is what happens when Ivy League liberal academics are
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: in charge of trying to figure out what's going on here.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But this is just bizarre in this day and age
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: where we have this many cameras and this kind of
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: technology to try to track somebody down, and here we
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: are several days later, and as of this taping, we
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: have no idea who did this. It appears as if
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator is not close to being apprehended. The videos
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that have been released are almost comical in how completely
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: useless they are, and unfortunately, two innocent people are dead,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: many others are wounded, and we really have no idea
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: how or why this happened. Now there is some reporting
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: indicating that this may have been a situation where there
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: was an Islamic extremist that was perpetrating this. We don't
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: know this. There were apparently are our ear witness accounts
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: of al acbar being said during the attack, but we
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: don't have that confirmed. The authorities, of course, are terrified
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: of verifying that for obvious political reasons. But it appears
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: as if Brown has absolutely no idea what they're doing.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It seems as if the FBI doesn't what he would
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you want to touch this because it seems like the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: whole thing is a total disaster as of this moment.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: This of course, could change by the time you hear
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: this podcast, because obviously, you know, in any moment, we
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: could find out that we finally do have the perpetrator.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: But it appears at this moment as if it's possible
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: that this person got away with this, at least for
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the time being, which is just absolutely mind blowing in
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: this day and age. And then there's the story of
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner and his wife, which has gotten probably the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: most news coverage, at least here in the United States
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: over the last several days. And I think there's important
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: context here with regard to who Rob Reiner is and
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: what your view of him is, especially in light of
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: how President Trump responded to Rob Reiner's brutal death, apparently
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: at the hands of his son, and obviously with his
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: wife also being killed alongside him in their Brentwood home.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I like Rob Reiner. I thought that Rob Reiner's career
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: was extraordinary. The diversity of work is almost unparalleled, doing dramas,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: doing commones, every different kind of movie, obviously being an
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: actor as well. I thought he was a very talented guy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I thought he was a very smart guy. I quote
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: this is Spinal Tap all the time. It's one of
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: my favorite movies. Yes, he was very very liberal, and
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: yes he criticized Donald Trump, sometimes inaccurately, specifically when it
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: came to Russia Gate. But I had no problem with
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: him as a person, not just because I have no
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: problem with liberals in general, especially if they're well intentioned
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: and good faith actors. And I think Rob Reiner was
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: generally a good faith actor. I think he was generally
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: well intentioned, even in his often wrongheaded political beliefs, And
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: so I liked him as an entertainer, and I didn't
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: hate him as a liberal because he wasn't completely loony tunes.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: He said some things that were wrong and inaccurate, but
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: as far as liberals go, I didn't think he was
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: all that bad. Frankly, if all liberals were like him,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I think we would be in a much better place
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: than we currently are. So I didn't consider him to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: be the worst that the left has to offer. And
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: so I think that's important context with regard to how
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: some on the right, especially Donald Trump, ended up reacting
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to his brutal death. Now, as far as what actually transpired,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: it appears as if after an incident at Conan O'Brien's
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Christmas party where their son Nick got agitated for some
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: reason and it caused a massive incident. It appears as
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: if later that night Nick Reiner killed his parents with
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: a knife, then went to a hotel, then tried to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: get on a train, it appears, and was apprehended. Now,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing, in this day and age that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: we didn't know about this until basically almost twenty four
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: hours later. As far as a news story was concerned,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it wasn't even confirmed that Nick Reiner had been arrested
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: until even longer than that, like thirty six hours apparently
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: after the actual murder. And when I saw the initial
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: news reports here in Los Angeles, I have to say,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: it was so soft towards Nick Reiner that it almost
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: felt like we were reporting on Rob Reiner and his
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: wife having died of natural causes. And that's not an exaggeration.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: That's basically what happened as far as the way the
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: news media was portraying this. And I'm keep thinking, wait,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: a hold on a second. I mean, yes, he had
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not been officially arrested at this point, but it was
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: obvious that Nick Reiner the Sun had been the perpetrator
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of this horrible double murder. And I think the news
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: media is so reticent whenever there's a situation where somebody
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: has a quote unquote illness, which Nick Reiner apparently did
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: or seemingly very obviously did, having gone to rehab over
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a dozen times, that somehow, even subconsciously, we've gotten to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the point where they don't get Blaine, that it's not
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: totally their fault that they committed this horrific, horrendous act.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: You can't even imagine something as terrible as this, right,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, taking a knife to your parents as an
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: adult and killing them in their own home and then
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: leaving their dead bodies there. That's what all the evidence
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: indicates Nick Reiner did. And yet there's been very little
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: outrage towards Nick Reiner. In fact, I've probably received more
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: outrage on my social media posts about this, which I
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: think were actually well attentioned and very respectful to Rob
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Reiner then i've seen publicly with regard to outrage and anger,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: whether it's in the media or on social media, towards
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator of the double murder. And what I'm referring
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to is that I posted on x two different videos.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: One was of Rob Reiner on The Today Show back
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. I believe this was while he was
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: promoting a movie that he did with his son, Nick Reiner,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: which was basically a fictional account of Nick Reiner's battle
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: with addiction. That seems to be what the movie was
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: really all about. I've not seen the movie, but that's
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: clearly from all the promotions about it that I've seen
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: in light of the brutal murders, that's clearly what the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: intention of the movie was. Rob Reiner and his son
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: worked on this movie together. It was somehow cathartic for them,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: and they got to understand each other better. And I
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: posted this remarkable video of Rob Reiner talking on the
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Today Show back in twenty sixteen about the making of
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the movie and what he learned and what he believes
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: should be the philosophy of dealing with problems like that
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: that occurred in his life with regard to his son
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Nick Reiner having this drug addiction. And I was struck
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: by this interview because it is dripping with liberal speak,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that this was where the liberal and Rob Reiner really
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: comes out, where the where the liberal philosophy is that
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: we have to be understanding, we have to be gentle,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: We can't punish anybody, we have to understand their perspective.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: And it's all very, very soft, and it's not you
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: at all keeping with a conservative view or a traditional
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: view of how you deal with problem kids or problems
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: in general, problem behavior in general. And and so this
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: was the clip that I posted on X with a
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: very I would say, snarky but simple question, which was basically, Hey,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I wonder whether or not we should have a conversation
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: about whether or not Rob Reiner's clearly very liberal educational
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: and parental strategy actually worked here, whether or not we
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: can learn from this tragedy. Now you might argue, oh,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: it's too soon, Ji, Well, this whole idea that's too
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: soon always is very strange to me because the news
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: cycle is now about fifteen minutes long. Our attention spans
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: are incredibly short. So what exactly are you supposed to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: have this conversation? And I wasn't blaming Rob Reiner for
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: his own death, obviously that would be incredibly stupid. I
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: was simply asking and suggesting that maybe we ought to
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: look at how we deal with problems like a Nick
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Reiner and whether or not constant forgiveness, constant coddling, sending
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: them to a very expensive rehab over a dozen times,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: doing a movie with them. See the movie part of this,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I think is really incredibly interesting and very primary to
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: this whole issue. So, I mean, what lesson did Nick
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Reiner learn from getting to make a movie he wrote
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the movie? Nick Reiner did make a movie with his
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: dad because of his addiction to drugs. Did that give
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: him the signal that this was a really bad thing
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: or did this actually work out well for him? Because
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people in Hollywood, that's a dream
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you have, you screenwrite a movie that gets made because
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner is your collaborator on this happens to be
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: your dad. I would suggest, whether intentioned or not, this
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: sent Nick Reiner a message that not only was his
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: behavior okay, it was actually something that was rewarded. Human
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: beings respond obviously to rewards and punishments. I talk about
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: incentive structures all the time, and it certainly appears to
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: me based upon the fact pattern, the timeline and this
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: clip on the Today Show, that Rob Reiner, while he
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: was clearly well intentioned, I want to make that clear,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: but you know, the road to hell is paid with
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: good intentions. Maybe the rote double murder is paid with
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: good intentions. Having your child kill you in your own
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: home with a knife is paid with good intentions. Rob
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Reiner had good intentions, but he was paving the way
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: for this problem to never be fixed, whether he realized
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: it or not. And so here was the clip that
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I posted on x An interview with Rob Reiner on
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: the Today Show promoting this movie that he did about
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: his son with his son back in twenty sixteen, it.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Was very personal. I mean, it's not a secret, but
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: my son, Nick, who was one of the writers of
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the screenplay, had his problems with substance abuse and he
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: went through a number of rehab programs from the time
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: he was fifteen to nineteen. He's doing very good now,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: but what I didn't understand is the depth of what
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: he was going through, and the process of making this
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: film not only forced me to see what he was experiencing,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: but I think it forced him to see what I
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: went through and what his mother went through. And hopefully
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the film is a reflection of that.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's going to be tremendously helpful for so
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: many people to understand.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Hopefully, hopefully we have to not punish people who have problems.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: We have to help them, and I think we're going
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in that direction. Now. People are starting to recognize it
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: because it's been given a national spotlight on the campaign
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: trip Now.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: The key moment in that interview to me is towards
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: the end when Rob Reiner says, we can't punish people
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: who have problems. We can't punish people who have problems. Okay,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: that's an interesting philosophy, that's an interesting strategy, But I'm
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: not convinced that that's something that is viable, and I'm
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: certainly not convinced that it's worked in this particular case.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Obviously, twenty twenty hindsight, I can't stand twenty twenty hindsight.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: If this had all worked out well, we never would
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: have been talking about this, obviously, so that's built in.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I get that this is twenty twenty hindsight, but I
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: still think there's something that Cannon should be learned by this,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: because isn't it at least possible. Isn't it at least
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: possible that maybe when we say you can't punish people
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: with problems, that maybe those problems are persistent because they're
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: not being punished. I mean, isn't that at least worthy
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: of consideration. Isn't that at least worthy of some semblance
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: of discussion and debate in light of this horrific tragedy.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I think it is. But of course we don't live
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: in that world anymore. Because I posted that video along
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: with another audio clip from a podcast interview that Nick
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Reiner did, and I believe this is two years later,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So this is after the movie has been made and released,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: after essentially he's been rewarded for his addiction and constant
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: attempts to go to rehab that were unsuccessful. He's doing
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: this podcast interview and listen to him talk about his
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: addiction and a situation where he trashed his parents home.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: But listen most carefully to his tone and attitude and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: whether or not he had any regret, whether or not
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: he thinks he did anything wrong. He's actually laughing, joking,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: chuckling about this, and to me, this is again twenty
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: twenty hindsight, but it's very very telling about what's really
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: going on here, what may have really happened with regard
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: to how his bad behavior was enabled at every step
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of the way and could have obviously resulted in this
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: horrific double murdered tragedy. And so here was Nick Reiner
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: on a podcast telling this story of having trashed his
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: parents home, and this this interview was done, I believe
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: was coke and something else, and I was up for
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: days on end and I started punching out different things
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: in my guest house.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Like a frame, like like what like a stuff that
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: I think I started with the TV, and then I
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: went over to the lamp, and then progressively I just
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: everything in the guest house got wrecked.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Did you punch the TV?
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I literally punched it.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Did you like lasserate your hands? I mean that sounds
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Did you hurt yourself?
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: I don't even remember at this point.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Again, to be clear, I acknowledge all of this is
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty hindsight, and we don't know a lot. There's
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of things we don't know. Hopefully we're going
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to get more information. Who knows what we're going to
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: learn from Nick Reiner. You know, what the nature of
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: his trial is going to be, Whether he's going to
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: plead guilty. We don't know any of that. Of course,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: there's part of me that thinks, you know, big upon
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the Menendez brothers precedent, you know, twenty thirty years for now,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to be you know, somebody's going to be
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: sticking up for Nick Reiner, who's going to come up
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: with some sort of abuse excuse that his parents did
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: a lousy job with him because of his drug drug addiction,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and they abused him into doing this or some sort
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of bullshit that the way we are going, the way
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: we're heading, and with the Menendez brothers president. Now, they
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: haven't gotten out of prison yet, but they've they've had
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of people support them after they blew the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: heads off of both of their parents and lied about
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: why they did it. And I don't believe the abuse
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: excuse in any way, shape or form there. But here
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: we are in you know, twenty twenty four to twenty
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: twenty five, and people were buying into that. You could certainly,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: at least theoretically see a scenario that you know, ten
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: twenty thirty years to now this somehow gets revisited. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I'm the more important point in the short run is
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: that we don't know the facts. And I'm always very
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: hesitant to get ahead of the facts, but I do
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: believe that we have enough of a fact pattern to
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: at least consider this, at least consider this issue about
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: how it is that this happened and how it is
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that spoiled kids end up the way that they do.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And this is an issue that I'm pretty passionate about
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: because I'm very concerned about my own kids being spoiled. Obviously,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I don't have anywhere near the resources that Rob Reiner did,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: either publicly or financially. It's a completely different world, and
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I'm actually happy about that. I'm actually happy that my
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: kids don't have that kind of problem, because it can
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: often be a problem. It seems like a dream to
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: have a parent that was Rob Reiner, but there comes
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: with it an awful lot of temptation and an awful
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: lot of challenges. I've seen it in other people's lives.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: My father's dealt with a lot of high net worth individuals.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: We talked about this when my father I did on
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the phone just yesterday about he is I've seen incredibly
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: similar situations where especially the sons of very rich and
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: successful men have a very very difficult time, often with
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: drug addiction. It is my philosophy, it's been my father's philosophy,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: that as a father, you want to create a safety net,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: but you don't want to create a catapult when it
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: comes to influencing someone's life and making their path so
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: easy that they never have any challenges, they never see
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: any sort of punishment. They get away with all sorts
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: of very bad behavior and when you get away with
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: bad behavior, and you even rewarded for your bad behavior,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you get a movie made about your bad behavior. Guess
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: what happens. Your bad behavior doesn't dissipate, it escalates. And
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: so again I want to make clear, Rob Ryan, I'm
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: sure had all sorts of good intentions. He seemed like
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: a decent guy to me. I really do think he
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: was a good guy, an extremely talented director and actor.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And it's a huge loss. You cannot write the history
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: of Hollywood without Rob Reiner. I mean a few good men.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: When Harriett Sally this is spinal tab meathead from all
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: in the family, I mean, it is a remarkable, remarkable career.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And let's not forget about his wife either, the mom
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: who got slaughtered by her son. And I've seen just
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a remarkable lack of anger towards the guy who perpetrated
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the double murder. In fact, when I posted those two
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: clips and simply asked the question whether or not we should
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: have a debate about whether or not Rob Reiner's parental
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and educational philosophy was vindicated here, or whether or not
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: it should be criticized, those weren't the words I used.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I was even softerter than that. I literally got more
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: anger directed towards me that I have seen online directed
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: towards Nick Reiner. Now I don't care about that, except
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: for the fact, from a societal perspective, that's very, very troubling,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that makes very that makes no sense to me, that
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it's very concerning that somehow the guy that wants to
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: ask a legitimate question about what might be able to
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: be learned from this from a societal perspective, gets more
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: anger directed at him than the person that slaughtered their
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: parents in their home. Where was the anger? Where's the outrage,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: whether it's in the media or social media. And I
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: think it's all because of our view of addiction. There
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: are so many people, and I think it's probably most
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: prominent among people who think they have some sort of
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: addiction or have dealt with people that do that. Somehow,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the addiction not just mitigates the blame that someone should
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: get for committing a horrendous act, it almost totally dissipates it,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: almost like it's a total excuse, like a complete blanket excuse. Oh, well,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: we can't blame they had a disease, like it was
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: cancer or something like something you could not possibly control.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not pretending that there aren't challenges of addiction. I'm
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: sure addiction is real. By the way, starting down that
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: road is the biggest problem. And how did that happen,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's certainly consistent with the liberal
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: thinking that you know, drugs are are okay, you know
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: pot's cool, and you know that's generally the way these
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: things start when you're a kid. I have no idea
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: how Nick Reiner got into his drug use, but that's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: certainly far more consistent with a liberal philosophy when it
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: comes to parenting than a conservative one. But once you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: start down this path, it's Katie bar the door, especially
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: when you're coddled and spoiled and enabled and even rewarded
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: for your drug addiction and you go to rehab over
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a dozen times and it doesn't work and you still
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: keep getting coddled. At least that appears to have been
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the case. Well, folks, we've gone way too far. I
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: talk about the swinging pendulum all the time. We have
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: gone way way too far when it comes to feeling
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: like an addiction is a disease, and therefore we can't
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: blame anybody for almost anything that they do. It's really
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: very troubling. It might be the most Obviously, the most
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: troubling part of this is two innocent people were slaughtered
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: by their son and their home. But from a societal perspective,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I'm rather concerned that we're now living in a world
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: where all of a sudden, if you know, if you
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: have an addiction, you don't get full blame. Now I'm
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: not suggesting he's not gonna get full punishment under the law,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: at least I hope that's not gonna be a situation
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: we have to worry about. But from the perspective of
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: the public and the media, I'm just not seeing any
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: of the anger and outrage directed towards the guy who
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: perpetrated the murder nearly as much as, Like I said,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: even I got on a stupid social media a post
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: and by the way, this isn't aside, but in my
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: mind it's a similar situation. Also happening this week, there
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was a murder suicide in Alabama involving a former television
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: sports reporter by the name of Christina Chambers that I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: found to be quite amazing, not just because it was
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a terrible tragedy where a husband and wife were left
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: dead with a toddler in the house. But when I
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: went to investigate what happened here, because I was very curious,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this this former television sports reporter. It
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: seemed to be very popular, very well connected within the
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: female television sports reporter community. You know, I was presuming
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: then when I saw murder suicide, that she must have
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: been the victim, obviously, right, I mean, everyone just presumes
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the guy has to be the one that committed the murder,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that killed himself and left their child alone in a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: ho with two dead parents. But here's how her former
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: TV station WBrC Channel six in Birmingham, Alabama. This is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: how they a news organization, tweeted or posted about on
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: x regarding her death a murder suicide. They wrote, we
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: are absolutely heartbroken to share this news. We have confirmed
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: former WBrC sports supporter Christina Chambers is one of the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: two people found dead in a Hoover home Tuesday morning.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Please keep their family and your wb RC family in
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: your thoughts as we navigate this loss. Now, this is
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: a news organization found dead in their home. What what
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this was? By all accounts of murder suicide? Yet I
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: spent several minutes trying to find a news organization that
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: actually reported on who did the killing, and I'm again
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I'm still presuming it has to be the man for
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a number of reasons. I don't know his name, I
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: didn't see a picture of him. Obviously, zero outraged dards
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: what he did, and I think part of it is
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: now part of it is we don't have all the facts,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: but I think we have enough of the facts. Part
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of it is he killed himself. And much like the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: drug addiction situation, and I've talked about as many times
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: on the podcast previously, somehow suicide has gone from being
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: like the worst thing you could do to being a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lot like addiction and being a mitigating factor when people
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: evaluate your crimes. This is as bad as a catch.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You're killed the mother of your child and left you're dead,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: left the toddler alone in the house, apparently with two
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: dead parents. It doesn't get any worse to this. I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: can't even find the guy's David picture. Forget about outrage
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: about what he did, and then think about it this way.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: If if he had just killed his wife and left
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: your dead there with the child in the house, and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: then escaped, right, can you imagine the man hunted Alabama.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, normal everyday citizens would be out there with
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: their shotguns. His picture would be everywhere. He'd be shot
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: on site, no questions asked. Plus we would just look
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: at it completely differently. Oh he killed himself. Oh, mental
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: illness is terrible. We have a mental illness problem in
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: this country, which we clearly do. We clearly have a
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: massive mental illness problem in this country. But I think
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: part of the problem is how we're evaluating these horrendous acts.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And I just I'm stunned when they're going back to
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: the Rhiner situation. I'm totally stunned by the reaction to
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: this on numerous levels. But I had to say, the
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: reaction that's most shocking, even though I guess it shouldn't
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: be given the history here, came from President Trump himself.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: President Trump, you know, reacted in this to this situation
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: as badly as he has ever reacted to any circumstance
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: in either of his presidencies. You know, I almost hesitate
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to even read what he posted on social media. But
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: since this is the Death of Journalism podcast, and I'm
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: an ardently anti Trump conservative who tries to be as
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: fair as I possibly can to Trump, and Trump is
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: obviously a huge part of this podcast. I feel somewhat
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: obligated to for the record, read what Trump posted in
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of the Reiner double murder, and it's just
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it's just horrendous, even by Trump's standards. But this is
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: what the President of the United States wrote and decided
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to send publicly apparently, you know, I don't know whether
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: anyone else saw this. I'm almost hoping no one else
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: did see this to say, mister president, that looks good.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, and it's senn. But this is what the
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: President of the United States decided to publicly pronounce in
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of the death of an American icon. Regardless
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: of whether you agree or disagree with him on his politics.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner was an American icon, a huge part of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the entertainment history of this country, someone who was beloved
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: by millions of people, and rightfully so. And here's what
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the President of the States wrote. A very sad thing
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: happened last night in Hollywood. Rob Reiner, a tortured and
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: struggling but once very talented movie director and comedy star,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: has passed away together with his wife Michelle. By the way,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: passed away. What the hell is that? Reportedly due to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding and
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: incurable affliction with a mind rippling disease known as Trump
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Derangement syndrome all in capital letters, sometimes referred to as
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: as TDS. He was known to have driven people crazy
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: capital letters by his raging obsession of of not with
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, at least get your word usage proper. It's
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: just unbelievable President of States, his raging obsession of President
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Donald J. Trump, with his obvious paranoia, reaching new heights
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations of
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: greatness and with the golden Age of America upon us,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: perhaps like never before. May Robin Michelle rest in peace.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, when I sent that to my wife, who
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: is a Trump supporter, all I did was texted to her.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: She was at school when it happened, and she called
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: me during her lunch break and asked me whether or
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: not that was real. That's what she said to me.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, that's actually real, and she was like,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: what the fuck? What the fuck? And I think that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that was the general reaction to most Americans, What the fuck?
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: By the way, there's another aspect of this whole thing
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: that's so weird, And we don't even know whether not
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Trump even remembers or realizes this. But you know, Michelle
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Reiner and Trump actually had a pretty strong connection back
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: in the day. I didn't know this, but apparently Michelle
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Reiner was a photographer and she took the photograph of
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Trump that was used on the original cover of his
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: book The Art of the Deal. Now it's possible Trump
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't remember that. I don't know, he didn't mention it.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Kind of weird since it's about him, and obviously everything
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: is about him. I mean, this is as narcissistic as
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: it gets. This is completely inappropriate. This would be inappropriate
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: if Donald Trump was purely a private citizen, and that's
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: the way a lot of his fans still evaluate everything
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: he does in this realm. Well, you know, he's a
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: private citizen. Minor was very mean to him, said a
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: lot of nasty things, some of them were inaccurate, especially
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: with regard to Russia Gate. He was a critic and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: an activist against the president. So of course you're not
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: going to say nice things about him when he dies. Eh,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You can say nothing. That's an option. That's
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: an option. But more importantly, he's not a fucking private citizen.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: He's the president of the United States. It's not the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: difficult concept to understand. Something every American used to understand
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that the president is held to a much higher standard
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: than the president's job in times of trouble and crisis
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: is to unite us. Where the United States of America
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: were incredibly divided, maybe more divided than we've been since
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the Civil War. And one of the many, many problems
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: with the Trump presidency is Trump is uniquely ill suited
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: for this position. One because he's not a unitor. He's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a divider. He literally divides. In fact, the only time
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: he ever unites us is when he divides us so badly,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: like he did in this situation that most of the
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: country was united in saying that's ridiculous, what the fuck
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: is that in regard to his post about the Rhiner
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: double murders. So in a weird way, he did unite
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: the country against him because everyone understands how just are
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: almost everyone understands just how completely stupid this was. There
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: were so many problems with that statement. I mean, it
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: was inappropriate, it was narcissistic. By the way, The only
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: way it even makes a little bit of sense is
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: if he somehow believed that Nick Reiner was killing his
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: parents on behalf of Trump, or because of his parents'
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: criticism of Trump, which of course makes no goddamn sense.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: There's no evidence for that whatsoever. But that's the only
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: way you make Trump's statement make any sense at all.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: But the narcissism of it, the referencing of passing away,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the claiming that it was due to the anger he
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: caused others through his massive un yielding an incurable affliction
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: with the mind crippling decease known as Trump derangement syndrome.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is crazy stuff even if
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: he wasn't president of the United States. But he is president,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: and I have said since twenty fifteen that he is
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: uniquely psychologically ill suited, unqualified psychologically. He's unqualified psychologically to
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: hold this position because he is completely incapable, incapable of
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: doing the basic things that are in a president's job description,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: and this is one of them. An American icon dies.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: If you're going to make a public statement, it cannot
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: be like that. And I think this broke through now
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: how much this impacted Trump's overall support. I have no idea,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: but I guarantee that if you did a poll just
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: on the public's reaction to that statement, it would be
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: overwhelmingly negative, at least seventy to seventy five, maybe eighty
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: percent negative towards what Trump said. There at a moment
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: that is going to be remembered, because this is a
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: huge event in American entertainment history, and it obviously happened
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: in a very dramatic fashion. My gosh, I mean, I
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: don't think it's going to turn into OJ two point
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: zero for a lot of different reasons. But it happened
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: right in the same neighborhood as OJ and in Brentwood, California.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: And there's still going to be news regarding this because
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: they still have to deal with the legal proceedings surrounding
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Nick Reiner. So this story is not going to go away.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And Trump. What Trump did there was absolutely incredibly dumb, inappropriate,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: But you know what, not all that surprising. What was
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: surprising in the realm of Trump and his perception and
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: who he is was an interview that Susie Wiles, is
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Chief of Staff, a series of interviews that she apparently
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: gave to Vanity Fair. Now, this is politically one of
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the craziest stories, and that the bar for that is
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: very high in the Trump era, one of the craziest
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: stories of the last decade of the Trump era, because
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you have the chief of Staff of the President United States,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Susie Wiles, who we've talked about many times before on
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the podcast. Trump himself has referred to her as the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: most powerful woman in the world. And here she gives
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: apparently eleven interviews to a liberal legacy media outlet, Vanity Fair,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: to a reporter that's basically unknown or very little known,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and she says several things that are extremely exploded, of controversial, provocative,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and seemingly very critical not just of Trump but of
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: those in his administration. Now, the essence of the report
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: from Vanity Fair after these eleven interviews was summed up
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: basically in one paragraph, and that's what this said. It
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: said this, Over the course of eleven interviews, missus Wiles
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: or ms Wiles, offered pungent assessments of the President and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: his team. Mister Trump quote has an alcoholics personality. Vice
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: President d jd Vance has quote been a conspiracy theorist
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: for a decade unquote, and his conversion from Trump critic
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: to ally was based not on principle, but was quote
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: an avowed Kennamine user and quote an odd odd duck
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: unquote whose actions were not always quote unquote rational and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: left her quote unquote aghast Russell T. Vaught, the budget Director,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: is a right wing absolute zealot and Attorney General Pam
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: BONDI completely whiffed in the handling of the Epstein files. Now,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I agree with a lot, if not almost all, of
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: what Wiles is quoted as saying there. Now, I also
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: acknowledge it's possible that some of this could be taken
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: out of context. But it's clear that these were not misquotes.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: And we know that because after Wiles responded to this,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: because this exploded in controversy as you might expect, she
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: basically said she was taken out of context. She never
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: claimed that she was misquoted, and in fact, it became
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: clear that there are audio tapes of Wiles saying these things,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: although to my knowledge as of this taping, they've not
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: been made public, but The New York Times has said
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: that they have heard the actual words that were used
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: in many of not all, of the key quote in
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: this Vanity Fair article, So this was not a case
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of misquoting. I get that you can say something in
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: jest or as a joke, like for instance, I think
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the JD. Vance thing is probably most likely a joke
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: because JD Vance, I thought, gave a tremendous response when
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: asked about it. He was very straightforward. He says that,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you know, he and Cusey Wiles joke about conspiracies all
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: the time, and then he went on, I thought brilliantly
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: to say, yeah, I believed in a few conspiracies, like
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I believe that the conspiracy that we masked kids in school,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: which was obviously false, and then he are based on
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: a falsehood, and then he referenced a couple of other
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: things that the news media got completely wrong. And so
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: he turned it around on the news media who asked
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: him the question, which I thought was really well done
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: on his part, and he acknowledged that he and and
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Wiles talk about and joke conspiracies all the time. So
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that was all that damaging. And
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: it's obvious anybody who's looked at the history of JD.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Evans that he he did change his position on Trump
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: because he's running for Senate. I mean, I've referred to JD.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Vans as a shape shifter. He is a really almost
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: magical shape shifter, incredibly good at it, and has been
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: able to navigate the Trump issue, you know, better and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: more dramatically than anybody else I know. Obviously, he's the
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: vice president United States when he at first was an
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: ardent Trump critic and basically compared him to Hitler. So
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: this is not new information. But to me, the most
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: interesting thing that she's quoted as saying here is that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Trump has an alcoholics personality. And why is that interesting? Well,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: first of all, if the chief of staff of the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: president is claiming that the president has an alcoholics personality,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: that's problematic. But it's particularly problematic and difficult to just
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: discard as an issue of an out of context quote
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: when the person's saying that is Susie Wiles. Why Well,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: because if we as we've mentioned before in the podcast
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: several times in a bizarre quirk of fade and history,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: Susie Wiles is the daughter of Pat Summerle, former legendary
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: NFL and golf announcer Pat Summerl who very famously was
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: an alcoholic that caused all sorts of problems for his family,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: including his daughter Susie Wiles. So for Susie Wiles to
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: say that Trump has an alcoholics personality that carries an
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: awful lot of weight and has an extreme negative connotation,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: even though famously Trump doesn't drink any alcohol at all.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that this is, you know, because the
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Trump fans are always going to take the side of
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Trump no matter what this is, how this gets discredited
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: in their minds. Oh my gosh, what a ridiculous thing
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: to be publishing that Trump has an alcoholics personality when
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: everyone knows he doesn't drink alcohol, partially because I believe
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: it was because of his brother having a problem with
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: alcoholism and he wanted to avoid that, by the way,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: which I applaud. I mean, that's very smart on Trump's part,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and I actually think that's one of his more positive
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: personality traits. But for Susie Wiles to essentially be comparing
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Trump to an alcoholic based upon her own experience with
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: her father, Pat summerw that's very troubling. And I have
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: to say that in a normal world, in a pre
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Trump world, if the chief of staff of the president
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: gave eleven interviews, apparently most of not all on tape,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: and said these kind of things about the president and
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: his administration to a liberal legacy media outlet. They would
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: be instantly fired. They would be instantly fired. I mean,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I don't even understand what Wiles was doing. Why in
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the world would you engage in eleven interviews with a
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: liberal legacy media outlet that clearly does not have Donald
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Trump's best interest at heart. It doesn't make any sense
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: in this day and age. But we now live in
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: such an upside down world that the exact opposite thing
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: happened then her getting fired in an unprecedented show of support,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and I mean unprecedented, Virtually everybody in the Trump administration
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: immediately immediately made glowing posts on social media, usually on
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: x about how great Susie Wiles is, how important she is,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: what an amazing job she's doing, and one hundred percent support. Now,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: how why did that happen? Literally, Trump himself sent the
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: message that he was supporting Wiles, and once that was done,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: everyone has to get behind the king. So the king
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: has spoken, and now, weirdly, Susie Wiles has actually become
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: probably more powerful, more untouchable because of the level of
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: support she got even when she stepped in at big time.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: With regard to this, the series of interviews with Vanity Fair,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: everything's upside down. So in a rational world, she gets fired,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: But in the world in which we're now living, she's
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: probably more powerful and more untouchable than she's ever been before.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It's really a remarkable thing. Now. I don't know what
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: her motivations were. I don't know whether or not this
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: was just a lapse in judgment, whether she was naive.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: She certainly doesn't seem like a naive person. She seems
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: very smart, almost machiavellian. I mean, the way that she
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: turned on Ron DeSantis in Florida and Nagavat navigated tru
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: through this incredibly difficult maze of indictments and trying to
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: get the Republican nomination and then the presidency, and she's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: given credit for all that. So I mean, she's clearly
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: not a dumb person. So I don't know what her
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: real motivation here was. And is it possible that some
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: of these statements were taken slightly out of context, Yes,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: but she did say them. I mean, there's not gonna
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: be any lawsuit against Vanity Fair. I can assure you
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: that because it's all on tape and they don't want
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I don't think they want to provide any more attention
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: to some of the things that she said. I'd be
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: curious to hear exactly what she said and to maybe
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: understand the context a little bit better. And if those
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: tapes do become available, I'm sure we'll talk about it
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: again on the podcast. But as of right now, Susie
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Wilds has not only survived this situation, I think she's
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: probably actually prospered with regard to political strength because of it. Now,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: speaking of drama and the soap opera nature of Republican politics,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the last week has seen an extraordinary series of events,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: even by the standards of our very bizarre times, involving
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk and the assassination of her husband, Charlie Kirk,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: and the effort by right wing provocateur podcaster Candace Owens to,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, make money and get attention for promoting
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: crazy conspiracy theories about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I mean I could probably do three hours on everything
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: that has transpired in just the last week when it
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: comes to this particular controversy. I have been very critical
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: of what I refer to as the alliance of lunacy
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that has overtaken an awful lot of the independent right
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: wing media, specifically the alliance of Candace Owens, Talker Carlson,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: and Meg and Kelly, with weirdly Jason Whitlock, conspiracy lover
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: from The Blaze, jumping in on this particular one. I
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: don't really know why. I mean, Jason is wrong about
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: like eighty percent of what he says. The twenty percent
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: is really really good, but the other eighty percent, he's
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: an absolute batshit crazy person, and he's you know, I
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: don't know that he's in the club on this, but
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: he's joined the alliance of Cadis, Tucker and Megan, where
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: they have been promoting. Although Megan, in her classic shape
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: shift her fashion, has been trying to have it all
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: ways and trying to please everybody, and in my opinion,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: has pleased absolutely nobody and hopefully has actually exposed herself
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: as the fraud that I've been telling you that she is.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: For many years. I've been following her very very closely.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I've been involved in stories related to her, Specifically, my
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: friend Matt Lower fromer NBC Today Show host. I've told
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: you many many times she's not to be trusted, and
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I feel very, very vindicated in the way that she
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: has handled this entire situation from essentially back in Candace
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Owens calling Ben Shapiro a liar, which she is, to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: my knowledge, never apologized for, even when Candace Owens has
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: gone out of her way to prove that Ben Shapiro
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: was correct when he said that Candace Owens has essentially
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: been claiming that Erica Kirk and Turning Point USA was
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: behind the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and bizarrely and outrageously,
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Megan Kelly publicly called Ben Shapiro a liar for all
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: intensive purposes with regard to the Alliance of lunacy, I
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: have theorized because it's the only connection I could make
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: that perhaps the lawyer Brian Friedman, who I dealt with
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: on the Michael Jackson case, a very very high profile
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: lawyer here in Los Angeles who represents Tucker Carlson and
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, and who has clearly provided Candace Owens a
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: lot of information on the whole Justin Baldoni lawsuit situation,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and involving Blake Lively, and so maybe that's the connection.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe they all share the Brian Friedman connection. Other than that,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: I can't figure it out. Maybe there's a financial interest
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: that they think that they are protecting because so much
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: of their audience is now conspiracy theorists and people that
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: have lost their fucking minds. But I mean, even by
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theory standards, the entire Candace Owens Charlie Kirk assassination
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: quote unquote theory doesn't even get out of the batter's box.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, there isn't even a theory. There is no theory.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: I want to make this very clear. There is no theory.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: And even the so called alternative fact pattern that Candace
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Owens has tried to claim is suspicious has been discredited
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: at every single turn. So I honestly don't know. Is
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: she lying, is she totally drifting, is it somewhere in
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: the middle. I don't know. But it's just a crazy situation.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: It is such a damning indictment of what the magamedia
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: has become and how the changes in technology have created
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: this independent right wing media that's incredibly influential, very very popular,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: but corrupted to its very poor to the point where
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: we can't even accept the obvious reality of the Charlie
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Kirk assassination. And as far as specifically what happened with
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: regard to Erica Kirk and Candace Owens, the timeline of
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: events is basically that over this past weekend, CBS did
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: something that was unprecedented in the modern era, maybe ever,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: especially considering the left wing bias of CBS. On Saturday night,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: they ran a town hall that Barry Weiss, the editor
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: in chief of CBS News formed liberal Calmness for The
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: New York Times, who has revolted against wokeness, is perceived
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: as moderate. I agree that she's moderate on most issues,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and eventually she got it on the whole COVID panic thing,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: for which I do respect her. I don't think she's brilliant,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: but I think she's at least trying to be fair.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: She hosted this town hall with Erica Kirk, this interview
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: that CBS aired in prime time. Now. It did very
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: poorly in the ratings, which is kind of surprising. My
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: only explanation for that is that the conservative audience just
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: so doesn't trust CBS and isn't even in CBS's stratosphere
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to be exposed to promotion for this thing that they
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: might not have even known it was happening. So it's very,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: very difficult for an outlet like CBS that is so
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: known as being liberally biased to even appeal to conservatives
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: because one there's an errent suspicion by conservatives, and two
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: they might not even know what happened, because, let's face it,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: the only promotion it's really getting other than a little
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: bit online, is through CBS, and conservatives aren't watching CBS,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: especially CBS News to begin with. And you know, there
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: were a lot of different topics that were covered in
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: this interview between Weiss and Erica Kirk, but the one
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: that's most obviously relevant to this discussion involving Candace Owens
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: is where Weiss lays it out and really land based
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: without naming her Candace Owens with regard to this whole
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: conspiracy quote unquote theory that's not even a theory involving
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the assassination of Charlie Kirk and getting Erica Kirk's reaction.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: And so this is kind of the the money clip
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: from that town hall on CBS between Barry Weiss and
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: I want to talk about discernment, yes, okay, being able
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: to separate truth from lives, reality from unreality. A twenty
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: two year old man named Tyler Robinson has been rested
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: and charged with the murder of your husband, and yet
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: there are a huge number of conspiracy theories you might
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: call them brain rot that are spreading right now online
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: about the actual story behind the reality. One people say
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: that Tyler Robinson was actually a Maga Republican or two.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Some people say, you are actually a Masad agent sitting
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: in front of me, and you were Charlie's handler, and
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: Israel killed Charlie right. Other people say that a number
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: of men in the crowd were wearing Maroon T shirts
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: and this signifies that his killing was an elite airborne operation,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: whatever that means. They say that the rings on your fingers,
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: which are.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: My kids and the kid's initial, my wedding band, the
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: metal of Freedom, my engagement rate, but.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Apparently they symbolize some kind of secret plot. There's also
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: a new theory that Egyptian aircraft have been tracking you.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: What is going on? Why are there so many conspiracies
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: spreading about what seems to be a pretty open and shutcase.
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: This is the first time that we have seen evil
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: on display, where we have social media at our fingertips.
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: Something so evil that happened, people are wanting answers immediately.
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: They are wanting to figure out how to wrap their
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: mind around this. Egyptian planes do let's just know, yeah,
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: the Egyptian. Do you believe that Tyler Robinson murdered your husband?
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: Why do you think it is so hard for so
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: many people to believe that reality.
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: Because it's too simple. Again, everyone always has to think
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: there's more to the story. Well, sometimes there's not. I've
• 54:59
  Speaker 5: seen the op topsy report, I've seen our case pull together.
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: I've been in constant contact with our lawyers, are the
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: prosecuting team. I've seen it all.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Now I have no problem in all with Barry Weiss's
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: question there. And you know, one of the more baffling
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: things about this whole town hall was that liberals, especially
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: on social media, had a complete mountdown, a complete mountdown
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: with them having to watch CBS turn into what they
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: perceived as a right wing media outlet where they thought
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: this was so super soft and let's face it, they
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: really don't like Erica Kirk. They didn't like Charlie Kirk.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: They didn't like the fact that they got blamed as
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: a group, as as an entity for celebrating Charlie Kirk's assassination. Yet,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: let's be clear, a lot of liberals did celebrate Charlie
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Kirk's assassination, you know. So I don't think it's inappropriate
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: to at least mark part of the liberal move with
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: that criticism. But I think that's partially why liberals on
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: social media are so sensitive about this issue to begin with.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, they it went very very poorly for them, obviously,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: most prominently with the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel, which I
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: was against and thought was based upon an erroneous interpretation
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: of what he said. But I digress. The point is
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: liberals went crazy in seeing CBS in what they thought
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: was a right wing softball presentation of Erica Kirk. Now,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: part of the problem is not just the legacy of
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: the liberal reaction to the Charlie Kirk assassination. It's also
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: because people don't like Erica Kirk. And I have to
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: say I can understand that. I mean, I have tried
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: to be extremely fair and understanding of Erica Kirk. Obviously,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: she had her husband in the prime of his life,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: taken in the most horrific way possible, and she went
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: from being essentially someone almost no one of them heard
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of before and being thrust into the spotlight. She's now
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the head of a major political organization, and everything that
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: she's gonna do is going to be scrutinized to an
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: extreme level. I will acknowledge and agree with those that
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: say that there's something off about Erica Kirk's reaction to
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: all this, But I'm also willing to give her an
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: awful lot of leeway and slack because of the obviously
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: horrific circumstances. But I will I'm gonna be honest about this.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: I did not like the presentation that she gave, or
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: certainly didn't like it as much as most conservatives did.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: The presentation that she gave at Charlie Kirk's memorial. I
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: didn't like the super melodramatic way which she forgave the
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: killer of Charlie Kirk. Even though the killer of Charlie
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Kirk has never asked for forgiveness, it apparently hasn't even
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: taken full responsibility for what they did. It felt like
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: grand standing to me. I will also acknowledge that the
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: fact that she was a beauty pageant person earlier in
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: her life creates a bias towards me, because this certainly
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: does seem to fit with what people perceive and what
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I perceive as being a reality when it comes to
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: women that are from the beauty pageant world. So I'm
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: not going to pretend that, oh my gosh, you know,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk shouldn't be criticized, or those that are being
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: cynical about her, you know, have some sort of liberal
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: Trump arrangement syndrome or whatever it is. I get it,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: I understand it. I'm trying to be very understanding of
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: her and give her a lot of slack and and
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of leeway here because of the horrific circumstances.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: But I'm not blind to this. I'm very skeptical of
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk given everything that we know. When I say skeptical,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not Hannas Owan's skeptical. I'm just saying that, you know,
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: we're having a situation here where this woman does seem
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: to like the attention, which is consistent with someone from
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: the beauty pageant world, and now all of a sudden,
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: you have a situation where she is thrown very very
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: much in the spotlight that never existed for her as
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: the wife of Charlie Kirk and the mother of his children.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: And so the liberal mountdown, I think is very telling.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I get the skepticism about Erica Kirk, but I'm still
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: not willing to condemn her because you have to understand
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: her horrific circumstances. Well, in the aftermath of this Barry
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Weiss and Erica Kirk town Hall, Cannis Owens maintained her
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: warpath stance. In fact, she of course loved it. I mean,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: this is what Cannis Owens lives. For My gosh, now
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk is effectively responding to me by name. And
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: then Erica Kirk also did a Fox News Channel interview
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: we were similar where it was clearly directed at Candace Owens. Well,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: this is what this is manna from heaven for Candace Owens,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: this is content, this is what she wants. And we
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: had this very very bizarre situation where as things were escalating,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden it was announced that Candace Owens
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: and Erica Kirk were going to meet together. They were
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: going to have a summit to try to resolve this conflict,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: which to me is unresolvable. I mean, you have one
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: person who's in the know, who's now the head of
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: Turning Point USA, who's the widow, who realizes that what
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Candice Owens is saying is a complete and total bullshit.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: And then you have someone who's lying for clicks and
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: money and clout and attention in Candace Owens not even
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: coming up with a remotely plausible or coherent theory as
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: an alternative explanation for what actually transpired here. And so
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: to how in the world you can put these two
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: people on the same level and make them equal and
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: have a situation where you could resolve these difficulties. And
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: this disagreement is beyond me. I mean, that's irre, irreconcilable.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: There's no way to breach that gap unless you know
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: Candace Owens was somehow gonna be willing to say, Oops,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: my bad, I was wrong. I learned the truth. Let
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: me move on. And part of me thought, is it
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: possible that Candace Owens is looking for an out because
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: her theory is not going to go anywhere? So, yes,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: she's been riding this wave and apparently it's been incredibly
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: lucrative for her and getting all sorts of popular podcast
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: episodes to an insane level. But where does she go
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: because there's no remote truth to what she's trying to say,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: So how do you continue to feed that monster? Is
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: it possible she's looking for an out? Is she? Is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: it possible that Candace Owens is looking for a graceful
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: off ramp for this lunacy that she's involved in. And
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I thought the meeting was a bad idea because you know,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: to me, there were only two options. Either the option
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I just laid out, in which case Erica Kirk is
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: helping Candace Owens get out of this trap that she's
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: laid for herself, because you know, you know, you live
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: by the sword, you die by the sword. I mean,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: in the short run, she's been getting all sorts of
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: attention and popularity. But this can't go on because there's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: no place for the story to go because it's all bullshit.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: And I wasn't happy with the first scenario, which I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: actually thought was the more benign scenario where Candass Owens
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: is trying to get help from Erica Kirk to get
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: her out of this. The second scenario is the candiss
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Owans is a snake and just using this for content,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: and whether it's in the short run or the long run,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: is actually gonna turn on Erica Kirk and actually use
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: the meeting to increase her credibility on this I'm so important.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying is so dangerous. Erica Kirk was willing
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: to meet with me for four and a half hours,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: and in a weird way, not just to Didn't it
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: just give her content In the short run, it gave
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: her more credibility to keep running with this bullshit. And
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: we don't know for sure exactly which track candiss Owens
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: is gonna use, but it certainly seems to me, based
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: upon the early returns, that it's the second one where
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Erica Kirk got played. Here. Erica Kirk got played And
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know whether it was because she was well
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: intentioned and just naive, whether or not she's just not
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: used to this world. Does she not understand what a
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: snake candiss Owens is. Did she get bad counsel? And
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: it's possible she got bad counsel because it appears as
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: if that council was coming from Megan Kelly. Megan Kelly
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: who has been doing all sorts of machinations, trying desperately
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: to come up with a position that doesn't harm her,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: and I think failing very badly. Has claimed that her
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: silence on this and her lack of condemnation of Candace
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: Owans for being more overt about blaming Turning Point Us
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: today and effectively Erica Kirk for Charlie Kirk's assassination than
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: ever something. Again, she called Ben Shapiro a liar for
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: saying was because that Megan Kelly was behind the scenes
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: trying to broke her this peace meeting, this summit between
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Candie Owens and Erica Kirk. And I don't think that
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: Meghan's totally lying. Is it possible that she's exaggerating. That's
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: certainly possible, But that's Megan Kelly's narrative. And Megan Kelly
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: has tried everything under the side to try to come
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: up with a narrative that works for her to get
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: herself out of this because she has been at the
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: thick of it. I went especially once she called Ben
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: Shapiro a liar. I mean, there was no going back
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: at that point because she was backing Candace Owans. And
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: so she either has to completely disavowed Candace Owens and
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that she was wrong to call Ben Shapiro a liar,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: which she doesn't seem to be willing to do. I
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: think largely because of ego and maybe because of political
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: circumstances that we're not fully aware of. But for whatever reason,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: she doesn't think that's the option. So now she's trying
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: to get out of condemning Candace by saying, well, I
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: can't condemn candas because I'm trying to do something for
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: the good of the movement. I'm trying to get the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: two of them together and promote Well, okay, I'm willing
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: to accept that. That's again, I'm trying to be as
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: understanding as possible. I always, until proven otherwise, give people
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes that results in me
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: being wrong at first. When it comes to Magan Kelly,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: I think I've been dead on almost all along for
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: many many years. But when I look at what Megan
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Kelly was really doing here to me, the effect of it,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: whether it was the intention or I don't know, the
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: effect of it was to set Erica Kirk up and
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: to put Candace Owens in a situation where she could
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: not lose because of the circumstances I've already outlined. Either
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: she was going to get an off ramp to get
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: herself out of this predicament that she's created by creating
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: an audience that's desperate for the truth about the real
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: story of Charlie Kirk's assassination, which she's never going to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: be able to provide in a remotely credible fashion, or
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: is she looking to continue the wave. You know, Erica
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Kirk just reignited the wave because she just gave Candas
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of credibility and a lot of content. And
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: you know, four and a half hours of meeting, Candas
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: can ride that with all sorts of vague insinuations for
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: weeks and weeks, if not longer than that, And anybody
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: with a brain, because I tweeted about this when we
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: heard about the meeting, well before we knew anything of
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the results of it, understood that this was the obvious
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: reality that Erica Kirk was being set up and apparently
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: was being set up again, either purposely or not purposely,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: or somewhere in between by Megan Kelly, who was brokering
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: this deal. And you know, weirdly, the person who was
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: most outspoken about this on Fox News Channel was Tomy Larren,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: weird that we're dealing with all women here, right. I
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: don't think that's a coincidence. We've got Candace and Megan
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: and Eric Tucker's kind of a girl now too so,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: and now we have Tomy Laren. I'm convinced that Bravo
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: is going to come up with a new reality series
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: called the Real Housewives of Ruby Red Maga County. I mean,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: that's really Brabo couldn't ask for this kind of soap
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: opera on their reality television programming. But Tomy Laren, of
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: all people, went on Fox News Channel and eviscrated Candace
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Owens and the entire concept of this meeting because she understood,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: like I do, what Candace Owens is really all about,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: and how this meeting was going to benefit Candas and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: give her exactly what she wants in this totally fucked
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: up media world where the incentive structure is completely and
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: totally broken and corrupt. And what's really interesting to me
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: about this is Tommy Laren, at one point in her career,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: was much like Candace Owitz. Remember she was at the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Blaze when the whole Trump thing started. In fact, Tommy
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: larn interviewed me for The Blaze about the Trump candidacy
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: back in twenty sixteen, and it didn't go well historically
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: for me because I was trying to convince her Trump's
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: not a conservative, but he can't win a general election. Well,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: he's not a conservative. I was right about that, but
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I was wrong about him not being able to win
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: a general election. And it was obvious to me at
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: that point that she was trying to jump on the
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: Trump train, which was not something the Blaze was promoting.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: At that time, Glenn Beck was still very much of
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the anti Trump camp. Well, she jettison the Blaze, and
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: the people at the Blaze thought Tomy Laren was a
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: lot like what we now think of Candace Owens. She's
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: a sellout, she's a fraud, she's just trying to do
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: this for her own careers. She's an attractive woman, and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: you know, much like Candace Owens, a young attractive woman
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: that changes all the the rules and changes the whole
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: dynamic of the situation. So Tomy Laren leaves for greener pastures.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: By the way, it was a great career move because
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: the Blaze almost went under until Glenn Beck totally sold
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: out to Donald Trump after he got elected, somewhere in
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: the twenty seventeen twenty eighteen vicinity, And so here we
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: have this bizarre spectacle. Now we're in twenty twenty five,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: and Tomy Laren is the voice of reason. She's the
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: one standing up for principle and calling out Candace Owans
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: for what she really is and why this meeting was
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: a really bad idea. And the only thing that I
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: can think of is it takes one to know what.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: So here was Toby Laren on Fox News Channel and
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: what I thought was by far the best high profile
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: analysis of this whole situation involving the meeting between Candace
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Owens and Erica kirk Well.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 6: I understand why she'd want to take this meeting because
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 6: she wants to put it to rest. And I understand
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 6: because I think she's discovered by now that it's not
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 6: going away anytime soon. And I personally, if I were her,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 6: I wouldn't do the meeting. I wouldn't give this other
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: person any content, because that's what this person is going
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 6: to use it for content, Because when you have nothing
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 6: else to talk about, when you're not talking about conservative policy,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 6: when you're not talking about the conservative agenda or talking
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 6: about young college conservatives on campus, which is what TPUSA does.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 6: You need content, and you need to use other people
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: for your content because you're a vulture. So I wouldn't
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 6: give that person any content. I would ignore them, and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: I would not feed the beast. Now I understand wanting
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 6: to do it and wanting to put it to rest,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 6: but I think it's never going to be for some
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 6: people because they will just continue continue, continue to feed
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 6: off that carcass. And I would hope that at some
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 6: point it ends and some people would find some decency,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 6: But I think they're making way too much money. And
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 6: that's the unfortunate part about social media. There used to
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 6: be a time in media where if you said horrible
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: discussing things, you didn't have much of a platform anymore
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 6: because nobody would touch you. But then social media happened
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 6: and YouTube happened, and suddenly you can say awful, horrible
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 6: things and you can still have an audience and you
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 6: can make a lot of money. So again I find
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: it really discussing we've gotten to that place. And I
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 6: think we also need to talk about the rising anti
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 6: Semitism on the right and how it needs to be
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 6: squashed because I find it repulsive and disgusting.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: Indeed, again I thought that was dead on and very bizarre,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: but almost telling coming from Tomy Larin, given the history
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: that I have outlined for you as to how she
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: has gotten here, and that's to me, that just shows
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: how bizarre, upside down and totally broken the entire right
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: wing media infrastructure is. The entire Magamedia industrial complex is.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: This whole thing is a soap opera, and I don't
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: want to lose sight, even though I've already referenced it.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: What a fraud Megan Kelly has exposed herself as being,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: and how much it really is all about personal relationships
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: and popularity. You know, Dave Rubin, who is a pretty
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: decent right wing commentator, smart guy. Don't agree with him
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: on everything. Nobody's perfect in the Trump era, but he's
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: better than average. He's been a Trump Kelly, a Trump
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Kelly where there's a Freudian slip, a Megan Kelly confidant
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: or friend or ally well, Dave Ruben criticized Megan Kelly
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: for her handling of this whole canvas owned situation, and
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Megan Kelly unfollowed him on X. By the way, Megan
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: Kelly unfollowed me a couple of years ago because I
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: criticized her. I don't even remember what I criticized her for,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: but she and I had had a pretty good relationship.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: She used to share my tweets, we communicated during via
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: direct message. Like I said, I had a relationship with
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: her lawyer, Brian Freeman, who at one point had even
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: suggested that I might become part of a Megan Kelly
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: a conservative network, which never would have worked for a
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: million different reasons, and I knew was never going to work,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: so I never really took that seriously. But the point is,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: this is Megan Kelly's m O. She's a very fragile ego.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: She looked sit everything through the lens of okay, who
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: are my friends and who are my enemies? It's not
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: about the truth, and that's really what is influencing her
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: and causing her a lot of problems with this regard
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: to this whole Charlie Kirk assassination issue, because for whatever reason,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: she either sees Candace Owns as an ally or wants
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: to see candass Owns as an ally, and therefore she
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: cannot criticize her. This is a huge issue in right
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: wing media, especially now that we've gotten into the Internet era,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: the social media era, the podcasting era. You know who
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: goes on whose podcasts. It's all very incestuous. It's all
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: about personal relationships that directly and dramatically influences people's ability
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: to tell the truth. That's part of what I think
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: makes my podcast unique is I have no friends. I
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: don't give a shit about anybody. I'll criticize just about anybody, friend, foe,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: or in between. I'm just gonna tell you what I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: think the truth is, and for better or for worse.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's one the better things about this podcast.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: Megan Kelly can't do that. She views everything through the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: lens of who's my friend, who's my enemy, who's my
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: former friend? Who do I want my friend to be
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: in the future. And I'm going to strategize about what
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: position I should take, not based upon the truth, but
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: what I perceive to be good for me usually in
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: the short run. And for some reason, I think Megan
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Kelly is miscalculated here because I'm seeing and granted it
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: might just be because I'm looking for it, but I'm
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: seeing a lot of significant posts on social media from
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: people who are no longer Megan Kelly fans. I think
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: she has hurt herself here. I hate to be optimistic.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: I hate to believe that people are actually figuring out
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the truth, because that often is not really the case,
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: especially when I want it to be. I mean, I've
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: always had this rule that if I'm looking at something
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: and I want it to be the truth, I hold
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: it to a higher standard. But there are a lot
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: of data points that people are starting to get it
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: that Megan Kelly is a fraud. She's a shape shifter,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: just like I told you years ago. And so we'll
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: keep an eye on how Candie Owens is manipulating this situation.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: But I think it was a major mistake for Erica
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Kirk to meet with the snake that is Candace Owens.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: But I still don't know how in the long run,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Candace Owens gets yourself out of this. I really don't.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: But we'll keep looking at it because I do think
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: it's very telling about just how broken the entire right
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: wing media ecosystem really is. Thanks for listening to today's
• 1:16:27
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• 1:16:30
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• 1:16:44
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• 1:16:59
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