Latest / Career Catalyst / Episode 2 Career Catalyst: Mail Room to Board room with Kevin Graziadei
Transcript
- Rory: Hi everybody, welcome to Career Catalyst. I'm Rory Devine, your host. We are being produced by our normal co-host Derek Lozaro today. So you'll be hearing from him, but maybe not seeing him on camera. We are very lucky. We have a great guest for us today. He is a project, senior project manager. at Amazon ⁓ Web Services, AWS for the insiders, if you will. And I just wanted to introduce Kevin. Kevin, thank you so much for coming, joining. Now, yeah, I botched your title, so why don't you tell us what your official title was when you were working at AWS? Yeah, thank you, Rory. Great to be here. Yeah, it's evolved a little bit throughout my four years at AWS, but it's a strategic program leader and kind of a little bit of a blend of business development as well. Got it. And we wanted you to come in today because you kind of sit atop the bleeding edge of entertainment technology, which is constantly in the headlines, and specifically ⁓ strategic innovation and project management, which is kind of an ever-changing landscape with the market over the last few years. So tell us, this is a podcast about careers, this is Career Catalyst. So ⁓ what got you started in technology and what made you pursue entertainment technology, given that you have a career? that spans 20, is it 26 years? 26 years, 22 at Fox Studios and then four years at AWS and Amazon Studios. Yeah, it's actually interesting to say that I'm in my mid-career and I've only had two gigs. It's been an amazing journey. I started right out of college, an internship at 20th Century Fox. Many roles kind of started in the kind of low level script runner as an intern, learning the ins and outs of the business and kind of rounding out after 22 years leading the project management team. then got recruited to join AWS to kind of help build out an entertainment and media team supporting the Amazon ⁓ businesses for AWS. So it's been an interesting journey in those two very different companies, ⁓ but it's... At end of the day, the project management has been my passion. And now when you blend that with entertainment, it's a very interesting area. And I know we'll talk a little bit about the relationship part of it and the communications and areas that I think are key to successful project management and entertainment. So let's back that up, because you said a couple things there that were very interesting to me. So first and foremost, you're in college locally, I'm assuming, because you got an internship. So was this a non-technical internship? did you look at, I want to be in entertainment. I live in Southern California. I found just the first internship available at a studio. Is that what happened? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, let me go back to the origin story. I went to school back East, so I'm a New York native, went to school in Vermont, got a PR degree, then... Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm still defrosting after 26 years. So then I then made my way to Boston to Emerson College and focused on media and visual media arts. furthest geographical way from Southern California. So, okay. television production and that's a really interesting space because we're going through the digital revolution of ⁓ physical to digital ways of production. ⁓ So through that journey, ⁓ Emerson has a program to come out to LA to do internships. So I did that and came out from Boston to LA in mid-January ⁓ in 2000 and started my internship. ⁓ I actually went back to my father and said, know, landing in LA, 75 degrees, like this is the life ⁓ I'm not leaving, this is where I wanna be. And it was fitting, the entertainment capital, so it was just a perfect fit, and I never went back. ⁓ But that internship at 20th Century Fox was really the beginning of learning the business, learning the entertainment business, and what better way to be a script runner or a production assistant on a studio lot, 22 years old, right out of college, and it just kind of a sponge. learning the ins and outs of the business and driving a little golf cart around the lot. was just a ⁓ really fun and exciting time. Wow, okay, so you're running scripts. Does that internship evolve into full time or did you have to apply for something from there? Like how did you kind of translate that script running internship into something else? Yeah, so I was at a crossroads, right? So it was okay. I get out of school. The PA work is certainly something I can continue to do. And I didn't want to go into the freelance world. I wanted to stick with the business. So that was where I kind of explored opportunities within Fox and landed a coordinator position in the corporate side in technology. Now, this is 2000, the beginning of like information security where CISOs did didn't exist, the heads of ⁓ IT security were still kind of in its infancy and Fox was starting that program. And so I had opportunity to join and be an assistant and a coordinator in that team that was being established. So I just jumped on it. Emily, let me, kind of the sponge, if you will, to learn about. this space, technology. I don't have a technology background. And so I just kind of looked at it as an opportunity to learn another part of the business, like still keeping me in the ⁓ studio system, the entertainment industry as a whole. And so just from there kind of took the opportunities as they came. Right. Yeah, forgive me security people, but did you see this as a, this is probably a sector that not everybody wants to be in, but it keeps me in the studio and I just moved across the country. Is that kind of what was going through your mind? Yeah, mean, IT security is not the sexy part of entertainment or even in IT for that matter. So I just looked at it as a chance to learn. Yeah, keep me in the studio, but also, ⁓ again, being in the lot to be able to learn and network and meet people and also just also contribute to my, you know, my skill sets. Right. are very transferable. And so I think that was a perfect fit. I had an incredible mentor that hired me into that position and still to this day is heavily influenced of my career. And so I just embraced it and learned. And from that opportunity, I was pretty much in that organization for my 22 years at Fox. And it was like, hey, the advice my mentor was like, project management is probably a really great space for you because it blends your creative people, background, and technology, bridging the gap between the technical to the business. And it kind of was the like, know, kind of a-ha moment for me. Whereas, okay, I could bring great value into this ⁓ team and provide my skill sets or contribute my skill sets to this. ⁓ Got it, so you weren't one of those people who were like tinkering with computers when they were like 12 or 13, but you got the pull to technology after you kind of joined the studio and you saw like a pathway for you there. area. Yeah, exactly. A consumer of technology, but not necessarily playing with it. And I think that was where a lot of times I felt myself was, maybe I shouldn't be in this space because I didn't have the technical background. And then it was over time as years go on and I kind of evolved my project management. journey, it's not needing to have the skill sets in tech, but to know the human and the people side. And I'm like, this is great. This is where I love to help the technical, kind of the gap filler, the bridge between the tech and the business. And that's where I think I just then doubled down. said, OK, this is a great area to help. There's a lot of communications and people skills that come with that. project management space. Right, so you're embedded in with the security team, evolving into project management. Now would you say you chose project management work or you mentioned a mentor? Was the mentor someone that you, after being involved at the studio, they kind of told you here are your strengths, here are your skill sets, here's where I think you should go? Yeah, was actually a really simple piece of advice that stuck with me till this day is relationships. And I think that is key is a relationship superpower, having the ability to relate with people. Maybe that's a little bit of my PR background, the people person that I am, that it's important that that skill set could be used for the role that I was in. I think that piece of advice stuck with me and then helped me kind of decide and confirm that this is a great space to be in. Right, mean especially in entertainment, it's relationships, but entertainment technology sounds like it's almost no different. Yeah, yeah, I think project management, these are all like transferable skills, right? But I think in entertainment, right, you have, yes, a lot of, you know, interesting personalities that you're going to come across in entertainment. And it's a it's an interesting part of like, corporate America, where is ⁓ you really have to just, you know, what you're going to do to get stuff done is those relationships, right? And I always looked at it as my mental model was, you know, you want to be respectful and appreciative of anybody that helps contribute, whether it be someone in the mail room to the C-suite. And I think that that was something that it's like, and I always go back to like, I say my script runner days of driving around the golf cart and getting to know people, that actually was what kept me in the studio for as long as I did, because I had those relationships. people see me kind of grow up, right? It becomes a family. And you're like, you know, from the days of, you know, getting married, to buying your first house, to having a family or starting a family. Those colleagues you get to know up and down the organization get to know you personally. And I think that that's so invaluable. it's, especially now in the days of virtual world of collaborating, it's starting to be lost. And I think that trying to bring that back into the workforce is an important area. Yeah, and we've actually met through work. I was working, staffing, consulting over at Amazon Studios. And I can say firsthand, I've heard you say it, and I hear you walk the walk, but you're an empathy first person. I don't know anyone over there that hasn't said anything really incredibly nice about you. So you've done a really good job of walking that walk from what I've seen. Yeah, thank you. it's, you know, was, was a, think that that's the piece of it takes time, you know, when you build. trusting relationships, and you wanna do that in anything you do, And it's like, whether it be your management, to your colleagues, to your partners, treating everybody with respect, and know that they're trying to help, right? And at the end of the day, when you can do that, and you can do that with great people, and you up having fun, right, along the way. And you make great friends, like we have, and certainly sharing a lot in common, and doing fun things like this, it's great. owed to relationships and how important it is to keep and maintain those healthy relationships. Yeah, and now we see each other every Friday with our kids at just call it the local local gym for lack of a better term. So that's great. So tell us so 22 years at Fox growing. I don't know what your official title was by the time you left. Yep. So what changed after, what was your title officially had you evolved into after those 22 years? And then what was the sea change that made you move over to Amazon? Yeah, so I kind of rounded out my time at Fox. I didn't think I was gonna leave. And I was a director of ⁓ project management. So at that point I kind of rode the Fox and Disney merger, kind of spun off, when Fox spun off and started its new Fox entity, I had the opportunity to join and kind of help build project management capabilities. So I did that for a couple of years. ⁓ so being the director of PMO, there was, at that point, ⁓ just kind of just seeing what other things are out there. Mid-career opportunities within Fox is what actually I was pursuing, you know, seeing. And I ended up landing a role with ⁓ supporting the CIO and kind of like a pseudo, it was project management, you know, not necessarily a chief of staff title, but it was doing a lot of those functions, like supporting him, preparing for key briefings, ⁓ kind of working with the leadership team. And so I loved that. And I kind of at the same time, It's you know, what other areas could I bring my skill sets and then it just so happened ⁓ Colleagues that had been a part of the Disney Fox merger ⁓ Went to Disney then some landed other elsewhere and ⁓ was then recommended and recruited for a role at AWS. So the colleague that ⁓ Yeah, exactly goes back to relationships ⁓ He was like, hey, this is an amazing opportunity to build though. The key thing here was to build something new Personal network, personal relationships again. at AWS that didn't exist for their media and entertainment team. So AWS supporting ⁓ the Amazon media properties, so like Amazon MGM Studios and Prime Video, Amazon Music, Audible, these properties need. the AWS help. And so when they were looking to have a strategic program leader join AWS professional services, I was a perfect fit for that role. So I went for it. I think it was a hard time filling the role. And when I was recommended and certainly a mile down the street, it was an easy fit that they wanted to have someone in LA with many experience at that time having had been a life for at Fox. Yeah. Yeah, you're a cross-section of content management, technology, all intersecting at the same time. And then all these new kind of content generators are popping up. I can see. It's interesting to hear it as a production assistant intern, then reporting to the CIO after 22 years, helping prep and brief, and then finding yourself at a brand new studio is pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was hard. It was probably the hardest year of my career because when I left, I left that family. And that was a little bit of a, you go through a little bit of that mourning, right? And it's like, what did I do? I left something that I was so comfortable with. I knew everything and everyone, like the back of my hand and, know, close friends of the family as well. But it was like the hardest, but the best decision. Right. to be able to join. And so when that time came where I went through the ⁓ torturous AWS or Amazon loop process of going through a Senate hearing for the role, and when I was officially offered the position, I think it was one of those like. The hardest thing of telling my mentor and the leadership at ⁓ Fox that I had been given the opportunity to join AWS, there was just full on support. Like, this is awesome, great, go for it, Kevin. Great time for your career to try this. Like, what Amazon was doing at the time, they were going through the acquisition of MGM. It just came from the Fox Disney, ⁓ and bifurcation. So it was like, I had a lot of that experience. It was just timing was perfect. It couldn't have been better. Right. was just a perfect position for me to join. It sat at a really interesting position of sales and delivery, which we can talk a little bit more about. But it was a really great time and no regrets. And so it's like one of those, what makes you uncomfortable in the end, makes you a stronger person of going through that change. Right, curious, stay uncomfortable. That's what I hear is that. And find a mentor is kind of a through line that we hear from a lot of these people with the careers that are similar to yours. yeah, I think more current steady state. us about what were you doing at Amazon? How was project management running at Amazon right now? Or how was it back then when you first got the job that was so radically different? Yeah. I'll tell you that that first year was the hardest. And I think because I went from knowing how to just run project management in the style at Fox, which was more of just high speed, low drag, be really efficient, use the entrepreneurial Fox spirit that was ingrained in everybody, to joining AWS, it was the professional services arm. And so was a lot of learning new ways of doing things. ⁓ I mean that by learning how to go through, and like a traditional consultancy, right, going through a statement of work, and going through resourcing and staffing, like learning all the intricacies, it took a while, it took a good nine months until I hit my stride. So that was where I was like, once I figured that all out and I mastered that, I was like, oh, okay, this is where then I can bring in my people, project management skills, and really accelerate the, the aspect of the motion from when something is sold, a project is sold and I'm responsible to then now deliver it. I looked at it as I never really learned and knew the sales part of it because it was a natural project management. Projects were handed over to the PMO and I'm picking them up in a true delivery capacity. Whereas I'm starting to see the beginning of prospecting and going through that. that phase and learning how to get to the opportunity to be in a launch state. So hence like that sales to delivery motion was just a great journey because that, as I said, I joined as a strategic program leader and became a practice manager, an account executive, and then just rounding out this business development function, which is where I kind of wrapped up. . So to bring it back to the audience listeners, what would you say or how would you recommend given all the changes in the marketplace with AI and automation in the last two or three years, what would you recommend for them, for someone who wants to be a technical project manager, a project manager in IT, or any sort of leadership within entertainment technology? Expensive but tough question to ask. Yeah, no, I mean, think because of all the tech that's coming and the changes with AI, it's one, embrace all that's coming. Learn the skills that are coming and be available, but be open to how that can help you accelerate. But I think it's also important to learn or lean in on your soft skills because I think that... Tech's not going to replace the human. So if you really know... how to relate with people and work, but then use the tech to your advantage to help accelerate what it is. I think that's a ⁓ perfect combination. Because I think you're not going to guess all this talk and hype of AI is coming for jobs. I think you're still going to need that human in the loop. And I think that's where project management is such ⁓ a well-positioned career path, because it really allows you to bridge the technical and the need for relating. and kind of obeying the business needs to the desired outcomes. Got it. How would a graduate entering the workforce now lean into, who's probably spent some time in COVID, missed school, missed some social interaction, how can they lean into their soft skills, in your personal opinion? Yeah, this is a fascinating area for me and I think it's an area that I think it's overlooked a lot is our social and emotional intelligence, right? We hear about EQ a lot now, but I also think that what's being missed is social intelligence. the water cooler talk, right? Because we're in a virtual world now, right? I I think a lot of us, those that have been in our careers for some time, you go to the office Monday through Friday, you're in the office from nine to five or six, you have those social lunches with your colleagues, you have the water cooler talk is what I refer to it, or the coffee runs. You really just have a natural opportunity to harness your soft skills. I think now it really takes an extra effort to exercise that so that you don't lose it. It's a sharpening another tool. networking, that relationship thing that we talked about in the beginning, you want to maintain those relationships, making sure that you make a conceded effort to be in the office. to network with people so that you can ⁓ social gatherings, doing those happy hours, doing virtual. ⁓ One of the things that I was implementing and I was our ⁓ empathy ambassador for our department at AWS where we would host monthly. ⁓ social events. that's a really tricky thing to do because you get the excitement in the beginning and then it wears off as time goes on every month, maybe less and less participants. But you need to be thoughtful about how you engage with people, how you get them to participate. So all kinds of activities to keep people connected. I think. Mm-hmm. just to kind of round that out, is just really leaning in on connecting with people. And the more you can do that, the more confident and comfortable you are with ⁓ your social interactions. Great. tool, AI tools, are you using in your project management? I know you have to embrace all of them, but you mentioned, what do you think are the most mission-critical ones that maybe a project manager in training should be looking at? Yeah. Yeah, I'm just, you my time at AWS, you know, we're reading the dog food, so I'm using all the tools that AWS has at our disposal. you kind of have to, and it's encouraged. You can't use anything outside of that when you're on company ⁓ equipment, but on a personal front. I mean, I, as a project manager, like, ⁓ I'm planning my family's ⁓ next, you know, my daughter's spring break, so we're planning our spring vacation. Mm-hmm. So I'll use tools like, simple things like just Gemini to help me plan. So some of the things that are the base fundamental things. So put together a simple project plan of an itinerary. Because at end of the day, that's project management. You're talking about planning a vacation. So I keep it simple. I do that more as a fun thing. Because at the end of the day, I... Yeah. you want to just kind get off the computer, you want to get off the tech and just be out and enjoying life and adventure. So I use the basic tools that are helping me keep organized. Got it. And then I think we're kind of through a lot of the softball questions. One key question I want to ask now, which I think is most precious, is ⁓ you were recently affected by some of the rifts happening at Amazon. ⁓ 26 years in employment is an incredible run for anybody. I know you're going to land on your feet quickly. But what have you learned being back in the job hunt and the job market that has drastically changed for you that you're seeing now? Yeah, so yeah, like, you know, being impacted by the Amazon layoffs last month, so it's been about five weeks. you know, a gut, you know, gut punch type scenario, blindsided, you know, I was considered a top performer at AWS, but it just shows that no one's immune to these things that happen. And especially it's like you kind of you sign up for working at a big company, these things and decisions happen well above, you know, my ⁓ pay grade and it is what it is but I've ⁓ been probably becoming like the best version of myself right now during this time. And I've doubled down on my wellness. You know, I got to work out in this morning. So every day I start with working out. You know, if I've got a busy morning routine with the family, at least getting a walk in with the dog. ⁓ But I'll do stuff for myself, right? And I'm also now just doing everything that I haven't had time to do, whether it be hitting the slopes, you know, midweek. to getting down to the beach, into the water for a swim, to getting into the gym, doing yoga, all these things that I'm like, I wish I had time to do this and that. But then also most importantly, quality time with my 10 year old. That has been, like, none, just the best part of all this, just being around and available. We're doing this podcast in the morning because I want to be home in the afternoon to pick up my daughter and be with her. And she wants to, you know, hit the park. And it's like I can do that. I have that time and availability. ⁓ But I think now and I think because I this mental model of just being clear and thoughtful about my next steps, ⁓ that approach has really helped me just be open to what's coming next. Yeah. prepare, I mean, ask AI tools, just using AI or resume writing tools to help me prepare to market myself on LinkedIn and just really be thoughtful, like, oh wow, if I take a step back for a second, like what I accomplished in the last 26 years, I feel proud of what I've done and I'm excited about the next half of my career and. say next 20 years or so I have left. And I think that is just an interesting time and I'm excited to be able to continue the journey and it'll come. And I'm not like worried about the next step because ⁓ and I think when that next role comes, it'll be the right one. Yeah. and potentially a better one that will just be, as they always say, something you're land under feet, like you said. And I'm confident I will, but I'm also just being really patient with myself. Because it can, it can be a little bit of a ⁓ pity moment where it's like, how did this happen? again, I never welcome those thoughts. I'm just trying to be really. And you even just said earlier, it's a business decision, it's not personal, it had nothing to do with you. It actually had nothing to with your performance either because you were internal classification as a top performer and it still was an impact. So I mean, there's really literally nothing you could have done. So I think that's important for everyone to kind of hear for someone who's in the moment happening. And so I just want that. Yeah. Yeah. ever. to resonate with the listener, so that's really great. ⁓ I know you gotta get going, and I appreciate your time on this morning, you have family obligations. ⁓ This was great, I hope everyone had a chance to listen to it, all the future project managers out there, relationships, networking, find a mentor. If anybody wants to catch up with you, what's the easiest way to touch base with your Connect? Yeah, mean, think LinkedIn, you know, it's ⁓ easy search for me, Kevin Grazia Day. And happy to connect there and share a little bit of my, you know, further and give advice there as well. Thank you. Excellent. Thank you so much. Again, you can find this on Apple Podcasts. You can find this on our website, itcareeracademy.com. Thank you for listening and we'll talk later. Thanks, Kevin. Cool, thank you.