Latest / White Fox Talking / E37: A Conversation with Dave Jones: Advocacy for Outdoor Activities and Healing Through Nature

Transcript

E37: A Conversation with Dave Jones: Advocacy for Outdoor Activities and Healing Through Nature · White Fox Talking

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
0:02
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Chalon Valentine and I'm here with Seb.
0:05
Speaker 1: How are you, Seb?
0:05
Speaker 1: Hi Charlie, Are you good?
0:06
Speaker 1: I didn't say you know.
0:08
Speaker 1: You asked how you were.
0:10
Speaker 1: I didn't want to tell you why you've been so secretive.
0:14
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you?
0:15
Speaker 1: Stop playing up, Not like me.
0:17
Speaker 1: Stop playing up Stressful times.
0:20
Speaker 1: I'm still busy, as usual.
0:22
Speaker 1: That one Absolutely.
0:22
Speaker 1: Let me just get rid of my phone off there in case it starts beeping, which generally nobody would call me until we're doing something.
0:28
Speaker 1: Who's in today?
0:29
Speaker 1: In today, this is a gentleman, Dave Jones, A bit of a Welsh legend, who came through the mountain training scheme.
0:37
Speaker 1: I met him there on an eventful mountain leader.
0:40
Speaker 1: He's training and then he's gone on and now he's a mountain leader, fully qualified, and he's out.
0:47
Speaker 2: Mine's only just started recording.
0:48
Speaker 2: Is that a problem?
0:50
Speaker 3: No, that's fine.
0:50
Speaker 3: Oh, it's fine.
0:51
Speaker 3: That's Dave there.
0:52
Speaker 3: That's Dave putting in.
0:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't keep him shut, so you can't keep him quiet.
0:58
Speaker 3: So might as well just jump straight in.
1:00
Speaker 3: Well, I was just jumped straight in.
1:01
Speaker 3: Now he's here.
1:03
Speaker 1: Oh, Dave, I'll give you the big intro and you've jumped, it's all good.
1:06
Speaker 1: How are you mate?
1:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really good, Chas, I'm really good.
1:09
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us.
1:10
Speaker 1: A little bit short notes, but we did want you on because we're doing this series that's Sebed planned.
1:18
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, what was it again?
1:20
Speaker 1: Nature Therapy we're the long-stin-sizz Nature Therapy series.
1:22
Speaker 1: But obviously I did and forgot to tell Sebed.
1:24
Speaker 1: So yeah, dave, if I've just give a little bit of an intro there, but if you'd like to give us a little bit of background for the listeners, your sort of story, and then we'll sort of dig deeper and tell everyone about you, yeah, of course.
1:37
Speaker 2: I'm a qualified mountaineer from Wales.
1:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I started got into the outdoors just over six years ago now.
1:43
Speaker 2: It was a fruit of time after losing my mother.
1:46
Speaker 2: I haven't really looked back since.
1:47
Speaker 2: It's been quite a good healer for me, really took me out of a dark place and it's just what I just carried on doing and it's just progressed further and further.
1:58
Speaker 2: Challenges have got more harder and goals have got higher.
2:02
Speaker 1: Conversely, the rewards are better out there.
2:04
Speaker 1: Take it.
2:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, of course.
2:07
Speaker 1: So what were you doing before the mountain stuff you do If you're not implicating yourself.
2:12
Speaker 2: I do, I do.
2:12
Speaker 2: I've always worked full-time.
2:14
Speaker 2: I've always worked full-time.
2:15
Speaker 2: But since I've been hiking, it was just it's been.
2:19
Speaker 2: That's been my every weekend and you know, from start to finish all year round.
2:24
Speaker 2: But yeah, before that I was just a bit of a party animal.
2:26
Speaker 2: I was a DJ for six years, so that was a heavy lifestyle, yeah.
2:34
Speaker 1: Sceptels is.
2:35
Speaker 1: Sceptels is a word of DJ.
2:37
Speaker 1: No one again.
2:38
Speaker 3: No one again.
2:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I suppose they're fairly similar to both myself and Sceptel, but in that sort of night club world, night shift world, which is not really great for the mind, I suppose.
2:50
Speaker 2: No well, I've done the dolls the same as you with them in the past.
2:53
Speaker 2: Bit of security work.
2:54
Speaker 2: I've been a part-time manager.
2:56
Speaker 2: You know I've done a bit of everything in the nightclub industry.
3:00
Speaker 2: I've seen some sights.
3:01
Speaker 2: Let's just say so have I.
3:03
Speaker 1: How about we all?
3:04
Speaker 1: Seb was collecting glasses in a nightclub when I first met him.
3:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all.
3:09
Speaker 1: I don't know what your thoughts are both of you, actually but it's all sort of life experience, isn't it?
3:14
Speaker 1: And Calyx are building, you meet an awful lot of people.
3:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I met some great people in the clubs and I had some great nights.
3:21
Speaker 2: Most of them don't remember but there's some good ones.
3:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I met a few unsavory people on the doors as well.
3:26
Speaker 1: So whereabouts we working on the doors In Bangor, bangor, north Wales, cool.
3:31
Speaker 1: So if I take you back to sort of childhood, I suppose were you into the outdoors then, oh God no.
3:36
Speaker 1: And I wasn't expecting this big, I couldn't stand the outdoors, hadn't I?
3:41
Speaker 2: So you know it was one of them things.
3:44
Speaker 2: I wasn't very outdoorsy.
3:45
Speaker 2: Childhood was a bit of a gamer, bit of a nerd.
3:47
Speaker 2: I played sports, but I wasn't fully outdoors.
3:50
Speaker 1: Wow, I thought you were going to tell me that you'd had a childhood on the doors and then got into the nightclubs and then found your way back much like myself.
3:57
Speaker 2: But no, blown that out of the water.
3:59
Speaker 1: But that's interesting, isn't it, that you've sort of got into the outdoors later.
4:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm kind of glad that I have because I sort of appreciate it more.
4:06
Speaker 2: I think Younger Dave would not if doing the mountain that first time would not have liked it.
4:12
Speaker 2: I think Younger Dave would have said fuck this, I'm not doing that again.
4:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think it would be yeah, exactly yeah, do you regret not doing it any earlier, though, now that you've done it?
4:22
Speaker 2: Possibly, but you know for my reasonings for doing it wouldn't be the same, so I don't think I'd have the same passion for it.
4:29
Speaker 2: It's hard to say, because I'm kind of glad it's happened when it's happened because it's meant.
4:35
Speaker 2: I've been all in all in with it and it has changed my life a lot, like the opportunities and doors it's opened has been incredible.
4:44
Speaker 1: I suppose we see it because I know you worked some challenge events out which are really rewarding, leading people to aiming for a goal, but sometimes people just do nothing but moan and then it's like you know that they're gonna go out and sell all the kit on gear exchanges, something like that.
5:02
Speaker 2: It takes about five minutes to know you can have a hard day on the mountains.
5:05
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah when you first meet people.
5:08
Speaker 1: But I think they get the reward for that day and then make a choice, don't they?
5:10
Speaker 1: Where we do have a dragging people up the mountains, as young people don't help us.
5:15
Speaker 2: For me it always depends, because I think it's a lot to do with the weather and the views and I think I was quite lucky the first time I went up.
5:22
Speaker 2: I think if it had pissed down all day long I don't think I'd have gone back the next week.
5:25
Speaker 2: It was like it's one of them, because I always reschedule if it's gonna be rainy, shitty.
5:31
Speaker 2: I'll always say to clients listen, do you wanna change the date?
5:34
Speaker 2: I said I've got expensive waterproofs so they'll not bother, they'll take you, but rather you have the best day.
5:40
Speaker 2: Well, that's it.
5:40
Speaker 1: It's not about the money.
5:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's sort of interesting because I remember you didn't have any waterproofs on your mountain league training.
5:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, you know, that was way back Calix.
5:50
Speaker 1: Calix a building, yeah, Like no waterproofs.
5:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, pass move on.
5:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, no worries.
5:55
Speaker 1: Can I ask you?
5:56
Speaker 1: You did mention losing your mum.
5:57
Speaker 1: Do you mind talking about that?
5:59
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, no, of course yeah, yeah.
6:01
Speaker 1: and then into dark times, so touching sort of areas that are personal to you that we don't have to be broadcasting.
6:07
Speaker 1: But I would be interested in these and you mentioned the dark times because I think, from personal experiences, I suppose said to these dark times are what driving you on to do what you're doing now.
6:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely it was.
6:22
Speaker 2: My life could have gone one way or another.
6:24
Speaker 2: Really, I think it was either jail or the way it's gone.
6:27
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it.
6:29
Speaker 2: I think it changed my life for the better.
6:31
Speaker 2: I think it's hard to say something that's I'm just taking it as taking a positive out of a negative situation.
6:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's made me a better person, so it's made me appreciate it a lot more.
6:42
Speaker 1: I suppose I mean correct me for a moment if you know, involved in the sort of nightclub world.
6:48
Speaker 1: And then when there are dark times, there's also temptations, isn't there?
6:52
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course.
6:52
Speaker 2: I mean I've hit the drink hard and you know, we know all no drinks and anti-depressant, anti-depressant, yeah.
7:01
Speaker 1: It is a type I think it's definitely a circle that I got into, or a decreasing.
7:05
Speaker 1: Is it called a decreasing circle, spiral, downward spiral?
7:08
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, because obviously the way it affects your mood, affects your sleep, affects your diet, etc.
7:14
Speaker 1: Etc.
7:15
Speaker 1: So how long did that last?
7:16
Speaker 1: Do you think that period when you sort of and what inspired you to sort of start moving through that?
7:22
Speaker 2: I went through a pretty bad patch and the thing is, a few months I had to actually move away.
7:27
Speaker 2: I snapped my phone.
7:28
Speaker 2: Snapped my phone and had to move away because I was stuck in a rut around here and moved away, went working away and I'd come back just before my daughter was born.
7:37
Speaker 2: And then that was when we did Snowden and Snowden for charity with a va.
7:42
Speaker 2: I should say but yeah, for charity for the Welsh Air Ambulance.
7:48
Speaker 1: Oh cool, and was that just an event that you and some guys, some people, some friends- yeah, so it was all my family.
7:54
Speaker 2: it was organised by my brother-in-law.
7:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was about 30 of us.
7:57
Speaker 2: All my family went up Snowden together.
7:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful.
8:00
Speaker 2: Did you go up Clonberys Trap?
8:03
Speaker 2: I did, I did and I thought it was hell.
8:05
Speaker 1: Oh really.
8:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was so hard, but I was so overweight at the time and it just wasn't healthy.
8:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so over these years as well, I've got fitter and stronger and healthier.
8:15
Speaker 2: Did you actually seek help for that?
8:16
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm not one for talking, though.
8:20
Speaker 2: Right, you know, over the desk it says that.
8:23
Speaker 2: Just over the desk this you know face to face, asking me these questions and I can't do it.
8:28
Speaker 2: I'd like to say I'd rather go out for a walk, as a week is I know it's anybody who's taken a walk.
8:34
Speaker 2: They'll spill their life story to you and they'll tell you everything and they don't even realise they're doing it.
8:40
Speaker 2: They just opened up and it's yeah.
8:43
Speaker 2: So that's why when I did start, that's how I got into mountain leader training, actually.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.
8:48
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're listening to a podcast with Ali Hollist and what he does is does a bit of counseling therapy and takes people out walking because people relax for yourself with that.
8:59
Speaker 1: What do you, what are your sort of opinions and thoughts which you could tell to anyone else or explain to anyone else why you're more comfortable talking to a stranger, or you would be.
9:10
Speaker 1: Then you would be talking to a sale, I don't know psychologist, or a doctor, or over a desk in the room, I don't know exactly what you're talking about.
9:20
Speaker 2: It's just you feel like they're judging, you know, feeling the judgment, and if you're just talking to a stranger, they're just listening, and I think just listening's enough sometimes rather than analysing what they're saying.
9:33
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get your view though, so that listeners can sort of think or understand what they're going to gain by going into the outdoors and possibly just getting this.
9:42
Speaker 1: Can I say nature therapy.
9:43
Speaker 1: Is that a plug?
9:44
Speaker 1: That's all right.
9:45
Speaker 1: So nature therapy for free and going out and just talking on the mountains.
9:49
Speaker 1: What is it exactly that sort of this environment gives us, so that we can relax and start talking?
9:55
Speaker 2: I don't know.
9:55
Speaker 2: I really don't know what it is.
9:57
Speaker 2: I mean, there's some weird conversations going on the mountains and I mean the two that guaranteed to come up are sex and feces.
10:04
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's like.
10:06
Speaker 2: It's like people just want to tell you your whole life story.
10:09
Speaker 2: They have no filter on the mountain.
10:12
Speaker 2: It's fucking brilliant, it's brilliant, it's the conversations and like wow, quite taking a bunch of school kids out.
10:20
Speaker 1: Do you know what it is a?
10:22
Speaker 1: Well, I won't say school kids, but people do go back to a this well, they lose their, they lose these front stuff.
10:28
Speaker 1: I was out with a group recently, edaar Skyline, with a group of ladies and some conversation they were having, but just being out and just getting on conversations rather than having any hang-ups or anything, just open conversations.
10:41
Speaker 2: Oh, 100%, 100%, I think, is the best place for it, as long as it's not raining, because that will put a dancer on it.
10:48
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, head down, head down.
10:51
Speaker 1: I mean, Sebs being.
10:51
Speaker 1: You've been out with me a few times, haven't you?
10:53
Speaker 1: You're actually three peaks.
10:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:55
Speaker 1: It wasn't raining.
10:56
Speaker 1: Though it wasn't raining, Did you talk much.
10:58
Speaker 1: Are we in tears on that one?
11:00
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't in tears and I don't think I've talked much.
11:03
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it.
11:04
Speaker 1: In your German efficient way.
11:05
Speaker 1: I wanted to beat the 10 hours.
11:07
Speaker 1: Just get on with it.
11:07
Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, I remember it.
11:08
Speaker 1: Get on with it Head down and off we go.
11:10
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your mountain leader journey then, because that got Texas from just going out to enjoy the mountains for yourself or enjoy the environment.
11:21
Speaker 1: So actually did you set out with a purpose of being able to lead people?
11:25
Speaker 2: No, in fact it all stumbled across me by accident.
11:28
Speaker 2: So I grew a bit of a social media following and I then started thinking do you know what?
11:34
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and help people.
11:35
Speaker 2: So I started putting on some mental health hikes, just inviting random strangers to come and have a walk with me.
11:42
Speaker 2: I topped a bit of steak from the mountain leader community because I didn't have qualifications and insurance and stuff, didn't know anything about the scheme at the time.
11:52
Speaker 2: So when I looked into it I thought you know what, actually I'm just going to get it.
11:57
Speaker 2: I'm going to do it legit and legal.
11:58
Speaker 2: They can't say nothing and I can carry on doing what I'm doing.
12:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it?
12:04
Speaker 1: Because you don't actually for anyone listening out there.
12:08
Speaker 1: You don't need any, legally require any qualifications to lead anyone in the mountains.
12:12
Speaker 1: But we do get this.
12:14
Speaker 1: How do you actually take people out and guarantee you're going to bring them home?
12:17
Speaker 1: And the way that I sort of look at it is you know, if you've took it on with a group and you're leading them and you don't really know them, then it's different to a group of friends, isn't it?
12:26
Speaker 1: And if something goes, if something goes pear-shaped and you stood in a coroner's court, how can you explain your way out of?
12:32
Speaker 2: it.
12:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always going to be the family.
12:35
Speaker 2: That's who's.
12:35
Speaker 2: You're not the person, because it was the person that wanted to come.
12:39
Speaker 2: That's the way I see it.
12:40
Speaker 1: We seem to have got so far away from people just going out and enjoying themselves and adventures, because trying to say how, without taking work away from us, I really enjoy that.
12:51
Speaker 1: People want to go out and learn the skills so they can go out there, which is what you did.
12:56
Speaker 1: So did you set off with the intention of doing all these routes to become a mountain leader, or did you just find out that you had enough routes and then found out about the mountain leader?
13:05
Speaker 2: Because they've been oblivious to the whole scheme and just having to go with family and doing all these routes.
13:12
Speaker 2: I've done so much in Scotland.
13:15
Speaker 2: Before I even knew about it by the time I'd signed up it was just like oh yeah, I mean, I've got enough hours.
13:22
Speaker 2: And it was between, I think training and assessment was only three or four weeks.
13:27
Speaker 2: It was just got a breeze through it with.
13:30
Speaker 2: The had some great mentors, charlie being one of them.
13:35
Speaker 1: Oh well, sid, you have to wear Tarquin as well, don't you?
13:38
Speaker 2: Tarquin, you Stephen Hallan, of course, which is amazing.
13:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, who made such a difference in my life with my mountain stuff and what I'm going to In that time that you were doing these routes.
13:48
Speaker 1: What was it giving you, do you think for your?
13:51
Speaker 1: Because obviously you've changed quite a lot by the sound of it from on the doors.
13:55
Speaker 1: I mean my own story.
13:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wore on the door, then I'd go out basically on the pace as an unwind and then I stopped doing that because I was getting up in the morning and going out walking.
14:05
Speaker 1: Were you still in the nightclub scene then and the DJ scene, or was it a transition where you were just going out walking?
14:10
Speaker 2: I have done the doors and gone straight to guide in the morning and you know there's been some sleepless nights and it does catch up.
14:19
Speaker 2: I mean I'm in bed by nine o'clock every night.
14:22
Speaker 2: I'm an early to bed kind of guy, early riser.
14:26
Speaker 1: I think I'd finished Mink Club once and then went straight and did Yorkshire Three Peaks with a group and they were on the group of 15-year-olds and they wanted to get around in a record time, like I was like oh God, that was hard work, that was hard.
14:38
Speaker 1: But, calyxibull, what do you think it would do into your state of mind, mental health, behaviours, health in general, just getting out, To be honest, just losing the weight.
14:46
Speaker 2: And you know, when you're first out you do really feel it and there is no way to train for the mountains except actually getting out there.
14:53
Speaker 2: You can do everything you want in the gym, it's only going to help.
14:56
Speaker 2: But once you get on that mountain it's a whole different ball game.
14:59
Speaker 2: But it's been really good for my health, like my mental attitude.
15:03
Speaker 2: You know, weekends, instead of waking up hungover or not waking up, just staying in bed all day.
15:08
Speaker 2: You know, I'm up at four o'clock in the morning watching the sunrise.
15:11
Speaker 2: I'm down by 12 o'clock.
15:12
Speaker 2: I can go to the pub then and have a pint and just enjoy some food.
15:15
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be drinking all night and then waste the next two days on a weekend.
15:22
Speaker 1: Did I mention that?
15:23
Speaker 1: I mentioned that in that film that I did with Rob.
15:26
Speaker 1: That sense of sort of purpose isn't it You've got, instead of just filling yourself with one distraction I suppose it's like another distraction, but it's one that's good for you.
15:36
Speaker 2: I just feel really good when you know again now in the morning on a Saturday morning, you're down by 12 o'clock and you think I've got a whole day here still.
15:45
Speaker 2: I would still be in bed normally and I mean I've been so productive already and I've got the rest of the day to actually do stuff.
15:52
Speaker 2: But yeah, you can't really play, it's just amazing.
15:56
Speaker 3: So you mentioned some challenges at the beginning that you challenged again bigger.
15:59
Speaker 2: First challenge was just raising money just to go up Snowden.
16:03
Speaker 2: My friend fell off a pylon and paralyzed himself, so I did the national free peaks.
16:08
Speaker 2: Actually, sorry, I did the national free peaks for my brother-in-law's mother after she passed away and then my friend had an accident and he ended up paralyzed.
16:19
Speaker 2: So I was like national free peaks.
16:20
Speaker 2: How can I make it harder?
16:21
Speaker 2: You know I can't keep doing the same thing.
16:23
Speaker 2: So I did it on Christmas Eve and I did it all free, solo.
16:28
Speaker 1: Was that?
16:28
Speaker 1: Was that it was so?
16:29
Speaker 2: stupid.
16:29
Speaker 2: It was soul destroying.
16:30
Speaker 2: I actually cried on Snowden.
16:32
Speaker 2: It was soul destroying weather.
16:36
Speaker 1: When was this?
16:37
Speaker 2: Was this last Christmas?
16:38
Speaker 2: This was last Christmas and then this year I just done the national four peaks solo.
16:44
Speaker 2: It was a duo but shared it in the driving, so we basically did the three, finished at Snowden.
16:51
Speaker 2: I live about five minutes away.
16:53
Speaker 2: So I had two hours sleep at my house because that was the sensible thing to do with the driving, and then we just back to Ben-Evis and did Ben-Evis again.
17:01
Speaker 2: Oh really.
17:03
Speaker 1: All right, I thought you might have gone over into the Mons, or.
17:06
Speaker 2: No, not to.
17:07
Speaker 1: Ireland.
17:07
Speaker 1: That can take a toll anyway, just the travelling with that.
17:11
Speaker 2: I think the driving is really one of the hardest parts of the challenge.
17:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not really for me, I find it tough.
17:17
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I do find the driving tough, both physically and mentally, because I struggle to get out of car when I've been in it for a while and trying to keep mentally focused.
17:26
Speaker 1: But these challenges, so you keep driving yourself to do these.
17:30
Speaker 1: You didn't sound like much from the Christmas one, but you're getting something out of it for yourself on a personal level.
17:37
Speaker 2: I didn't really see him much while he was in a coma for a while and I didn't really see him in hospital.
17:41
Speaker 2: I felt a little bit guilty that I hadn't been there as much as I could while he was in hospital.
17:46
Speaker 2: Obviously, I go see him a lot now, so he's fully paralysed in the chest down.
17:51
Speaker 2: So, I'll go over to his, I'll sit with him and we'll have a takeaway, watch a film together, a couple of beers.
17:56
Speaker 2: I'll spend some time with him, but I just wanted to do something to help him ease back into, I say, normal life.
18:03
Speaker 2: But try and help him get back into some sort of life.
18:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's heavy, isn't it?
18:09
Speaker 1: I suppose, coming from the background, when you've like myself, you've wasted time because you've been just laid in bed after a hangover and then you see somebody that's fully paralysed, it's going to spur you on to do something.
18:21
Speaker 2: He's actually got such a good mental attitude though.
18:24
Speaker 2: He's so positive.
18:25
Speaker 2: He's such a strong guy.
18:26
Speaker 2: He's really upbeat about everything and you know he's taking it on the chin really well.
18:33
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm giving him a shout out if you want, mate.
18:35
Speaker 1: Well, he says to me.
18:37
Speaker 2: I didn't like walking anyway.
18:39
Speaker 2: Oh really, honestly, wow, he thinks I'm mad for going in the mountains.
18:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people do, though, don't they?
18:48
Speaker 1: A lot of people do, but I suppose it's what people like to.
18:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that's some mental strength of what's your pals name, gav?
18:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, some mental strength of Gav there.
18:59
Speaker 1: That's bloody hell Cool.
19:00
Speaker 1: So where are we now, then, with what you're doing?
19:03
Speaker 1: I know you've got, like you said, you've got a big social media presence.
19:06
Speaker 1: Never bloody off it, mate.
19:08
Speaker 1: I can't do it.
19:09
Speaker 1: It's not for me.
19:11
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know, but yeah, where are we at and what are you doing?
19:14
Speaker 1: Well, I know this is a leading question, but you are inspiring other people to get out and obviously join you and do walks and just get out, really aren't?
19:24
Speaker 2: you.
19:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
19:25
Speaker 2: It's just kind of accidentally blew up and I've been on some events for companies and people have been like so you're the influencer.
19:33
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I'm not really an influencer, I'm just a hiker and a guide that's got a big following.
19:40
Speaker 2: So it's not like I go out and I won't just post anything.
19:44
Speaker 2: You know like, just make up content.
19:46
Speaker 2: If I go out that day, I'll post something about it.
19:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not one of these that I'll go and bit my toe in the water and take a picture, yeah, so yeah that might be why I'd have to go.
19:56
Speaker 1: All my posts are all rants, aren't they?
19:57
Speaker 1: Usually, yeah, yeah, usually I've upset somebody or something.
20:04
Speaker 1: Oh, someone's killing on me.
20:05
Speaker 1: So what are you on with at the moment and what we've got lined up?
20:07
Speaker 1: So tomorrow I fly to.
20:09
Speaker 2: Switzerland.
20:09
Speaker 2: All right, cool.
20:10
Speaker 2: So I've been packing my gear this morning.
20:13
Speaker 2: I've got a trip going to Iceland next year for a few clients, so I won't be the guide, obviously, because I'm not an international mountain leader.
20:23
Speaker 2: So I've organised and we've got local guides in Iceland and we're going to do some hiking for a week.
20:29
Speaker 2: We're going to do some of the touristy stuff as well the waterfalls and the geysers and hopefully get up some big mountains in the Thorsmog.
20:36
Speaker 2: That's just open to anybody.
20:38
Speaker 2: If whoever wants to book on, if they feel scared to travel alone or don't want to go hiking abroad alone, it's just well.
20:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I was a big fan of when I did my ML and winter ML and even IML stuff going out and doing all my stuff by myself, to be fair.
20:56
Speaker 1: But there is a lot to be said.
20:58
Speaker 1: We're going out with other people that we've already mentioned, isn't it?
21:01
Speaker 1: You get so much out of it.
21:03
Speaker 1: I mean with the physical fitness, with this being sort of related to the nature, with the green light, blue light if you're near the water, fresh air, seeing nature I don't mention fitness and then community and, just like you say, people just usually start talking, even if you've got a group.
21:21
Speaker 1: So when you're out with a group, do you?
21:23
Speaker 1: You know, I think we did this, we did do this on sort of leadership in the ML, where you start moving around the group and talking to different people, getting different stories.
21:33
Speaker 2: Yes.
21:33
Speaker 2: So what I tend to do is on the easier sections, because you'll always find it, there'll be one in the back that you don't really feel like you're seeing that much of.
21:43
Speaker 2: So I'll always try and filter through the group and I'll just tell them to carry on, send them off in the direction and then filter down through the group and try and give everyone a piece of time, because you know the ones.
21:54
Speaker 2: It always tends to be the ones that'll stay at the back and they feel like they're not really included into the whole day.
22:00
Speaker 2: It's tough, especially if it's bad weather.
22:03
Speaker 2: It's tough to try and do and try and manage.
22:05
Speaker 1: I mean there's quite a big thing on now that we're leadership, isn't there about trying to notice these little signs with people if someone's struggling, or yeah, and I think some of these, you know there's a lot of people out now just for the mental wellbeing, but they might not be talking about it, you know, might be in their own little world.
22:22
Speaker 3: How many, how many people do you take out at a time?
22:24
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a question for both of you, I guess.
22:27
Speaker 2: If I'm working for some companies, I'll send you know a couple of guides to 12 to 20, but personally I'm like on my own.
22:36
Speaker 2: Six to eight.
22:37
Speaker 2: You know anything more than that.
22:38
Speaker 2: I think it's just a bit too much of a handful to manage.
22:41
Speaker 2: You know, if one, if one get, if you're on your own, and you know one has to go down, all down.
22:46
Speaker 1: So yeah, things Same, very similar.
22:49
Speaker 1: I suppose I mean Sean and Cess 12.
22:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, sean says 12, so that's a limit anyway, it's you know.
22:55
Speaker 1: But again, you know you've got to think about.
22:59
Speaker 2: It depends on the rooms as well.
23:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, how can you spend time with everyone if you've got 12 people there, depending on what it is, I'm quite happy with four and six, really Four teaching, 46 teaching, and then maybe eight to 10, leaning, and if it's a challenge, you're just running around anyway at your trying to get them round.
23:19
Speaker 1: They're not really interested, are they?
23:20
Speaker 1: They just want to be rounding the time.
23:23
Speaker 3: You mentioned you had a full-time job.
23:24
Speaker 3: I'm just interested have you made the transition of this becoming now your full-time passion and job, or is this something you want to do in future or where we?
23:36
Speaker 2: have it.
23:36
Speaker 2: I think.
23:38
Speaker 2: I see I don't have a website.
23:40
Speaker 2: I don't.
23:41
Speaker 2: You know.
23:41
Speaker 2: There's only one company I do work for.
23:44
Speaker 2: Really, I think if I wanted to, I could do it full-time.
23:49
Speaker 2: I don't want to turn it into my be all and end all.
23:53
Speaker 2: I don't want to look at the mountains as I've got to go out today because I need to earn money to pay my bills.
23:58
Speaker 2: Then I'll stop enjoying it.
24:00
Speaker 2: Like I said, I always say to my clients it's going to rain, we're not going to have a good day.
24:05
Speaker 2: Do you want to change the date?
24:06
Speaker 2: Because I don't need that money that day?
24:09
Speaker 2: If I needed the money, I'd be like right, we're fucking going, you're going to get wet, you're going to be visible, but you're paying me and then it takes out the reason I'm doing it.
24:20
Speaker 2: It takes away, like at the moment yes, it's nice to have a little bit of extra cash from it.
24:26
Speaker 2: You know it's always an added bonus, but it's not the be all and end all and it's not the reason I'm doing it.
24:32
Speaker 1: So on that note it's you know you'll get somebody to the end of a challenge or you see them at the start and then you're going through the challenge and people do have their ups and downs literally.
24:43
Speaker 1: Do you like that, sam yeah?
24:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:46
Speaker 1: Ups and downs, so, but do you get something in return for when they, you know, when you've successfully, you know, just basically open people's horizons and got them on the hills?
24:55
Speaker 2: Because it's not that I guess like so a lot of the time people do it for certain challenges and you know sort of some of them it's because they lost somebody and I get emotional with them on the mountain A lot of the time, if I take them on Snowden, there's a sign at the top that says here you nearer to heaven.
25:12
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was up there and the first time I climbed a mountain was Snowden.
25:16
Speaker 2: And then I went up in the mist and come out on the sun started shining, had a broken spectre, you know, had a cloud inversion and I'd seen this sign on the cafe and I was like, wow, goosebumps.
25:29
Speaker 2: I was like I didn't even know it was there, and like I do.
25:33
Speaker 2: If somebody's lost somebody and I'm taking them up, I will take them to see the sign, but I'll usually send them down, tell them to look right and I'll go around the corner and start crying myself yeah.
25:45
Speaker 1: So yeah, that all comes into that sense of awe, the science of awe which we need to get that.
25:50
Speaker 1: Get that guy in that wrote that book.
25:52
Speaker 3: Dave, I lost my father about four years ago, so you can never really say you know, I know how you feel, because no one understands and every person is different.
26:01
Speaker 3: In that kind of way, do you think a lot about your mother when you out in the mountains?
26:07
Speaker 2: Is it's out where you?
26:08
Speaker 3: predominantly think of your mother or A lot.
26:10
Speaker 2: It started as I just wanted to be something that she was proud of, because I don't think I was in my younger years, I don't think I was somebody that was the best version of myself, and you know I felt bad for that really.
26:22
Speaker 2: And so it's just one of them.
26:24
Speaker 2: I want to make a good change in myself.
26:28
Speaker 2: You know I still, I still still nowadays I still slip.
26:31
Speaker 1: You know I'm on a human, but you know I try and stay on the right path and try and keep my head straight and yeah, I think, on the, on the film that Rob Johnson did, which sort of launched all that, led into all this really, and my mother actually saw it four days before she passed away, which was which good, because she's like oh, you daft, you know, yeah, you daft going out doing that she, you know she'd see stuff on Facebook and like like being like bloody hell, what are you doing?
26:56
Speaker 1: It's so dangerous.
26:57
Speaker 1: But you know she saw that film.
26:59
Speaker 1: She was like, all right, I'm so yeah.
27:00
Speaker 1: So I was so proud of the way that I turned it around from PTSD to actually getting out and talking about and helping others.
27:09
Speaker 1: So it must be pretty similar for yourself, is it?
27:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a similar thing, but my mother didn't get to meet my daughter, so it was just that was a big one.
27:19
Speaker 2: So my, my, listen, my daughter's six in January now.
27:23
Speaker 2: So she was pregnant at the time.
27:25
Speaker 2: My ex-girlfriend.
27:26
Speaker 2: So, yeah, my mum knew I was having a baby, but while she was in hospital, but yeah, she didn't get the chance to meet her.
27:32
Speaker 2: That was always a big regret.
27:34
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, that must be difficult, mate, I suppose.
27:37
Speaker 3: So you said you're going to Switzerland.
27:38
Speaker 3: Are you going with a group?
27:40
Speaker 2: No, no, I had previously booked it for somebody else, but you know we've fallen out.
27:46
Speaker 2: So I've just said to my mate do you want to come to Switzerland?
27:49
Speaker 2: I've already booked and paid for.
27:51
Speaker 2: I said you just change the name on the flight and let's go.
27:57
Speaker 1: Well, there's one thing you won't be going out fishing Switzerland, will you?
27:59
Speaker 1: So probably not with prices.
28:02
Speaker 2: Is it that expensive?
28:03
Speaker 1: It depends where you're going, mate.
28:04
Speaker 1: It depends where you're going.
28:04
Speaker 1: I think we once paid 20.
28:06
Speaker 3: I've taken a credit card, so Ah OK.
28:08
Speaker 3: I thought you're going up the mountains, yeah.
28:11
Speaker 2: No, we are going up the mountains.
28:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've got a higher car.
28:14
Speaker 2: I think I'm looking at Zermatt and yeah, Zermatt's not cheap.
28:19
Speaker 2: Owen Owen show in Chensy.
28:23
Speaker 2: I'm actually staying in Geneva, so I'll be driving out every day and just go through all the passes and just see where we end up.
28:31
Speaker 1: really yeah well, it's a great place.
28:34
Speaker 1: We've been stunning built up been a few times, but I'm not taking a Gore-Tex jacket, so I'm just wondering.
28:40
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to check where it's not raining, because this big storm's coming in this weekend.
28:45
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's getting to that time of year where things are changing, mate Probably.
28:49
Speaker 2: The past two weeks I've been checking the weather.
28:51
Speaker 2: It's been 20 degrees and sunshine, and when you're going it's dry till Thursday and then it starts pissing down.
29:00
Speaker 1: Well, if you get higher up, it'll be snow, won't it?
29:02
Speaker 1: So, yeah, well, yeah.
29:04
Speaker 3: What's the next challenge then, Dave?
29:06
Speaker 3: Have you made one?
29:08
Speaker 3: Have you got one in mind?
29:09
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm just hoping nobody gets hurt or that passes away anytime soon, because I really don't like challenges, right, I like taking it slow, I like enjoying the views.
29:21
Speaker 2: When people say, have you done the Welsh 3000s?
29:23
Speaker 2: And I go, no, and I go.
29:26
Speaker 2: Why would I want to break my knees and go and just prove an ego thing?
29:29
Speaker 2: I was just like I'd rather walk today, walk tomorrow, walk the day after and you'll do one big walk and you'd be fucked for three weeks.
29:37
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
29:38
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, bit like Tally was after his marathon.
29:43
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm lacking now.
29:43
Speaker 1: I had to bail out my assessment last week because my back had gone long time injuries.
29:50
Speaker 1: So if someone was starting out there wanting to get into walking after listening to this, what would you recommend?
29:56
Speaker 1: I can't take your mountain leader off you now.
29:58
Speaker 1: I've given you it, so yeah.
30:01
Speaker 2: I think I'd recommend just getting out on something low level.
30:05
Speaker 2: Make sure it's going to be an ice take so you're going to get the full benefits and you're going to realize what we're saying when we say it's just wow, Because I still go out now, every single day, when you get these different views, I'm doing the same routes and I'm still like wow.
30:20
Speaker 2: And the client's like, are you still all that buzzing?
30:23
Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, Every time I'm out it's still.
30:26
Speaker 2: You know, I'm fully buzzing, Just fully, full smiles.
30:31
Speaker 2: It's just the endorphin here.
30:34
Speaker 2: It's hard to beat really.
30:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if there was a way of bottling that feeling then it is addictive, isn't it?
30:43
Speaker 1: Let's first it.
30:44
Speaker 2: I find it addictive, yeah it's it Love it.
30:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, and I tell them that pain, that pain when you come off that mountain, it would never taste as good.
30:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, as long as someone else is driving, because I might not be paying man.
30:57
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm paying, yeah, I'm paying.
31:00
Speaker 1: Depending where you are.
31:03
Speaker 3: How can people follow you?
31:04
Speaker 3: Because you did say you're not an influencer, what you are, or you have a big social media following.
31:09
Speaker 3: Where would people follow?
31:11
Speaker 2: you.
31:11
Speaker 2: So it is just Instagram.
31:13
Speaker 2: Really, I do have a Facebook page for my business, but I literally don't post on it.
31:18
Speaker 2: But yes, it's Instagram.
31:20
Speaker 2: So it's the Dave Rave Hikes.
31:23
Speaker 2: So it's Dave.
31:25
Speaker 3: Rave.
31:26
Speaker 2: I say the Dave Rave because there's loads of Dave Raves, but I'm the Dave Rave.
31:32
Speaker 3: I'm the one You're the one.
31:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the one, the chosen one.
31:36
Speaker 1: Yeah well, we'll get all that on the podcast anyway.
31:38
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, put it in the links.
31:40
Speaker 1: Cool, I think it's about time to wrap that up, seb, do you think?
31:44
Speaker 1: And we'll let you get ready and head off to Switzerland.
31:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm just gonna put some walking dead on now and chill out.
31:51
Speaker 1: All right, cool, fair enough, Well have a great time.
31:54
Speaker 1: On my phone.
31:55
Speaker 1: Check it out again, Tim.
31:56
Speaker 1: Have a great time in Switzerland, mate.
31:58
Speaker 1: I know we'll see you on Instagram, obviously, and thanks for joining us, mate.
32:03
Speaker 2: Thanks for your time, dave.
32:04
Speaker 2: Now it's been a pleasure cheers.