Latest / After Maghrib 🌙 / English man reads the Qur'an for the FIRST time (Ft. Wilf Lovatt)

Transcript

English man reads the Qur'an for the FIRST time (Ft. Wilf Lovatt) · After Maghrib 🌙

0:00
This Milad Rahman, Hum Sam Aliq and welcome back to After
0:02
Maghrib, wherever you are listening around the world, it's
0:05
a pleasure to be on with you again.
0:06
This week we have a fascinating discussion.
0:09
Whereas last week we talked about Muslims and the wider
0:11
world, today we're talking about the wider world's perspective of
0:14
Muslims and Islam. And in order to do that, we are
0:16
focusing on the Holy Quran today and the perspective of Islam to
0:21
those perhaps who are not Muslim or even to us as Muslims, how to
0:23
understand and to study the holy religion.
0:26
So you will see for the first time we have a bit more voices
0:32
on set and a bit less space. And three people joining me as
0:37
well today. It's on my right.
0:39
None other than my dear brother Muhammad Ali.
0:51
I'll. Handle that bro my Co host
0:54
today. I'm joking no one can replace.
0:58
I'm going. To present you my nights.
1:07
How you doing? So guys, we obviously, as
1:09
mentioned, obviously we want to talk about the Holy Quran today
1:12
and we want to understand the Holy Quran obviously in a in a
1:15
relationship with the Azelbaijan Islam ahead of the holy month of
1:19
Muharram and of course towards the end of this lunar calendar
1:22
year as well. So to do that, we want to
1:25
understand the Quran from an internal perspective.
1:27
Of course, Muhammad Ali is leading a series on Jumani
1:30
Knights on the Tufsiro of the Holy Quran, but also from an
1:32
external perspective. So in order to do to do that, we
1:35
have brought on our dear brother and friend, Wilf Lovett, who's
1:39
joined us and has come all the way down from Lancaster to be
1:42
here. Wilf, hi, welcome to after
1:44
Maghlib. Thanks.
1:44
For having me. Thanks.
1:46
Thanks for coming down. It's your first time in London.
1:49
Yeah, I'm first time on a podcast as well, so.
1:52
Making a debut. Yeah, absolutely.
1:54
It's I've enjoyed London since I've been here, to be honest.
1:57
Yeah. Yeah, good, good.
1:59
So I mean, for those who don't know, Wolf is, if you don't mind
2:03
me saying, obviously you can elaborate far better than I can,
2:05
is a social media influencer. He's got over 1/4 of a million
2:09
followers online, and he's been focusing on the religion of
2:12
Islam and studying religious texts, which of course, started
2:15
with the Holy Quran. You're now 15 suraj into the
2:19
holy of Quran and you are trying to release content regularly the
2:23
same time you're visiting mosques, communities, speaking
2:25
to scholars. Have I kind of hit the nail on
2:28
the head? I hope.
2:29
Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's kind of the
2:32
general idea at the moment. And I like you say, I'm
2:35
currently on Sora 15. I've been doing Quran like
2:39
analysis or analysis however you want to say it for about 6
2:44
months now alongside the mosque visits and trying out some of
2:50
the traditions and that type of thing.
2:51
So. Nice, good.
2:53
Well, it's an honor to have you on.
2:55
We've been trying to get you on for a long time and we've also
2:58
been trying to get Mohammed Ali on as well for the last three
3:02
weeks since your last appearance.
3:04
So Saeed, over to you. Where do we?
3:06
Where do we kind? Of kick off OK, so you know on
3:08
the way here to the studio. So after the aftermath of
3:11
studio, we had a brief chat in the car.
3:12
On the car journey I picked up Will from the hotel and
3:16
hopefully I gave you a pleasant experience.
3:18
Yeah. But for those of us who want to
3:21
know more about you, first of all, who are you and why are you
3:26
researching into Islam? Tell us more about you.
3:30
Yes, rather. Than Hawaii.
3:32
Sorry, I've been loved. Yeah, I'm not sure how to
3:34
approach this, but yeah, so I'm currently 20 years old.
3:37
I'm in my so I'm in the second year or I've just finished the
3:41
second year of my legal studies at Lancaster University.
3:46
And, and to be fair, what, what got me interested in Islam, if
3:51
that was the broader question, is I've been making content on
3:55
my political, geographical, historical topics for a few
3:59
years, but not, not usually speaking on it for a long time.
4:03
I kind of just presented facts and that type of thing.
4:07
And then so I was doing that for a while and my initial interest
4:12
in Islam kind of came through that.
4:14
So I remember I think it was last year's Hajj pilgrimage.
4:19
So around the last year. It's funny how it's been like a
4:22
year. Yeah, about about a year.
4:24
So I remember seeing some clips from the pilgrimage on my feed
4:30
and stuff like that. And I spoke to a few people who
4:33
were on it either as a volunteer or as a, you know, as a Pilgrim
4:37
themselves. And I thought it was quite
4:39
fascinating because at that time I didn't know much about Islam.
4:43
I know some, you know, just the basics, I guess most people
4:46
know. And yeah, so I think it was
4:50
around that time I got my first Koran, the Marmaduke pic 41,
4:53
which is the one I still use. It's got the Arabic and the
4:57
English and, and then when I, when I've been doing my
5:01
analysis, I'll, I'll obviously read it and then I'll try and
5:06
get some further context. There's quite a few good
5:09
websites for that and good scholars and then try and form
5:14
a, you know, a proper summary, I guess from that and A and a, a
5:19
proper analysis. But yeah, back to so.
5:22
So I was talking about last year.
5:24
That's when I initially got the Koran for the first time, but
5:28
then I didn't end up reading it for a few months, to be honest.
5:32
It was kind of just on my shelf because I do have an interest in
5:36
a lot of, you know, political, historical topics and that type
5:40
of thing. So I kind of put it to the side
5:43
almost didn't really think about it.
5:45
It wasn't anything deliberate. It was just, you know, kind of
5:48
slipped from my mind. So then I'd say around 6-7
5:55
months ago started making a bit more content on Middle Eastern
5:58
politics and that type of thing. So around then I started getting
6:02
a few, quite a bit more Muslim viewers on my pages.
6:06
And following that, there's quite a lot of people who
6:09
started inviting me to look into Islam and that type of thing.
6:13
So around that time, I kind of thought, you know what?
6:16
Because while people were doing that, I was kind of looking at
6:21
into some of the basics and some of the history myself, you know,
6:25
different perspectives, few debates on religion without
6:28
knowing too much, but you know, having a look.
6:32
So, you know, when I obviously was looking at the basics and
6:37
different perspectives on some and that type of thing, and then
6:41
obviously people were inviting me to have a, a deeper look, I
6:44
decided that it'd be worth doing a, a deeper analysis.
6:49
So obviously what I what I started a few months ago is
6:54
going through each sort of the sort of the Quran, you know,
6:59
from the perspective of, of first time reader.
7:01
So yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing since and
7:06
alongside the Quran readings of obviously I'm going in
7:09
chronological order, but alongside this I'm also
7:13
watching, you know, different videos from scholars, Youtubers,
7:19
different people's perspectives. So although I haven't sat down
7:23
manually and started reading the hadiths and later parts of the
7:27
Koran, it's they're often referenced in a lot of the
7:31
content I watch. So I think when I get there
7:34
it'll mean them a familiarity with.
7:37
The it's interesting because you are of course, and you're
7:40
practising Christian and we had this conversation yesterday as
7:43
well. You're a believer in God and you
7:46
have a spiritual connection with God as well.
7:49
And today we'll have a fascinating conversation.
7:52
We wanna know more about your journey into looking into Islam
7:55
and the Quran. Obviously, Mohammed, from your
7:57
perspective on the internal analysis of the Quran and, and
8:01
how the two meet and how they interlink, because I think
8:04
there's lessons for, for us to learn, especially for myself as
8:06
well. We also will talk a bit about
8:09
for the viewers kind of benefit. We're going to talk a bit about
8:13
general questions that Wolf has, general kind of topics which we
8:17
have for Wolf as well, questions that we have for him talking
8:20
about the, the different communities within Islam.
8:23
So as the son of Al Jamar and the Shia community as well,
8:26
where we differ and how we differ and so on and so forth.
8:29
But Muhammad, just based on what Wolf said and his, his, his
8:33
procedure, his method of studying the hood of Quran, how
8:37
would you, how would you assess it?
8:40
Does it? Does it?
8:41
Is it? Is it a great way of looking at
8:43
it for for someone who wants to begin?
8:44
So I think if you're, if you are looking at reading the Quran as
8:48
a first time reader, I think it is really good to just take it
8:52
at face value. Go through the book itself in
8:55
the beginning. Because obviously you don't want
8:57
to overwhelm yourself as well with looking at too many
8:59
commentaries or too many different kinds of views around
9:03
the Quran before you actually get a feel of it yourself.
9:06
Of course, obviously that Quran is actually in the Arabic
9:09
language and the Arabic language is quite a deep language as well
9:13
and very complicated. So a lot of the time if you were
9:17
to go and look deeper, you would see a lot of differences.
9:20
And I think that before you kind of get exposed to to those
9:24
differences, it's good to have your own experience with the
9:26
Quran. So I think what you're doing is
9:28
great. I think it's great that you're
9:29
also watching scholars alongside it.
9:32
And yeah, that just gives you a, a, a bigger feel to the Quran
9:37
and a better feel. So that I think it's great what
9:39
what Wolf is, is doing. And obviously I've enjoyed this
9:42
content as well. I appreciate it mate.
9:45
Thank you very much. Can I just add and I, I, I
9:48
genuinely commend you for picking up the Quran and going
9:51
through it because this is going to be a fact for many of us
9:54
listening. I think more than half of us
9:57
never open up the Quran unless it's the month of Ramadan.
10:01
Half of us never open up the Quran unless a loved one has
10:04
passed away and we want to recite in the, in the honours
10:07
and blessings towards them. So it's it's something like what
10:11
made you like you mentioned you went to Hajj.
10:13
Sorry you saw videos of you saw videos of Hajj.
10:17
I. Haven't even had.
10:19
Myself, the videos I've seen of Mecca and Medina online, it does
10:26
seem like a very stunning thing, so.
10:28
It is. It's absolutely because you
10:30
mentioned an interesting point. Like I think there was a moment
10:32
of critical thinking here because you were like, you know
10:34
what? I've seen the footage, I've seen
10:36
how the House of God looks like, I've seen the Moscow, the
10:39
Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam.
10:42
At the same time I got the Quran where I left it on the shelf.
10:45
But a few months in, you're like, let me open that book up.
10:49
What was what? What was that thought process
10:51
where you said, you know what? Let me open it, let me give it a
10:54
go. And now you're 6-7 months in.
10:57
Is there something that you would say you would want to
10:59
share about the Quran? You've come across something
11:01
interesting, something that you find beneficial, something
11:04
surprising. Yes.
11:06
I mean, if you're talking about like mindset, getting to read it
11:10
in the 1st place. So like I mentioned, it was kind
11:14
of just a mixture of things. It was just genuine interest and
11:19
then obviously getting invited to read it by, you know, some my
11:23
viewers, obviously Muslim viewers and that type of thing.
11:27
And it was just as simple as that, to be honest.
11:30
And but yeah, beyond that, in terms of things I've found
11:34
interesting since reading is a lot of people did tell me, well,
11:38
if you're looking into it for the first time in the Koran, it
11:41
can sometimes be a bit difficult to make sense of it because
11:45
you'll find that or why I found anyway in a lot of thesaurus is,
11:50
you know, there's some history. There's some stories of the
11:53
prophets, there's some rulings on Islamic law and that type of
11:58
thing. It's kind of a mixture of
12:00
things. But to be honest, like I've
12:04
actually quite enjoyed that kind of structure of the text because
12:09
these are all things that do fall within my scope of quite
12:14
wide interest. So when you're or, or when I'm,
12:18
you know, interpreting or coming across these themes regularly
12:23
when I'm doing my readings, it, you know, it kind of reinforces
12:30
things you've learnt already about about the Quran and Islam.
12:35
And, and obviously there's things about the oneness of God
12:39
that say a reoccurring theme as well.
12:42
And then with the stories of the prophets, besides Sauri Yusuf,
12:48
which I've just finished, actually, yeah, that's that's
12:51
the only Saura in the Crown where it kind of it's, it's a
12:55
full story of a prophet the whole way through.
12:57
It's. One of the most beautiful source
12:59
of. Logic, Yeah.
13:01
And then it's my favorite. It's it's a popular favorite.
13:04
Yeah, 100%. And yeah, like, like I say,
13:06
because the rest of the stories of the prophets, you might hear
13:10
certain things about the events later on.
13:13
And it's not even just in regards to the prophets I
13:17
remember in relation to I think it was the battle of badder or
13:21
the battle of or Hood or it might have even been both.
13:24
From what I've read so far, you'll get like smaller details
13:30
about the battle later on in in some later Soros, a few of the I
13:36
can't remember the particular, you know, Sora numbers, but from
13:41
what I can remember, it gave some more intricate information
13:45
about the battle in some of the latest sorts.
13:47
And it's stuff like that when when you come across it, it's
13:52
just interesting how the the text is formulated and you know,
13:56
after I guess doing a level English literature.
14:00
I don't know if I mean it's it's it's a unique structure because
14:05
you can't really describe describe it in any.
14:07
Yeah, I think, I think that's interesting because of course
14:09
when you look at most books that you would read, they've been
14:14
written from beginning to end as the book, as you're reading the
14:18
book. But with the Quran, of course,
14:20
the verses were all revealed at different times and it isn't
14:24
necessarily in chronological order.
14:25
So you would see, for example, that the first verse of the
14:29
Quran would have been read in the name of your Lord, and
14:33
that's towards the end of the Quran.
14:35
So you, you there is that that level of, of structure that is,
14:40
is divine is supposed to be that way.
14:42
But also you do realise that some of the verses that came
14:47
earlier, so you'd be able to recognise, for example, there's
14:51
these concepts of having a Meccansella.
14:53
And I know you're familiar with that from your, your videos.
14:58
So you have the Macken period where there is a huge emphasis
15:03
on belief and beliefs in the Quran, beliefs in the oneness of
15:07
God, beliefs in paradise and, and, and in Hellfire in the
15:11
angels in the books that came before.
15:13
And all of these things are very much emphasised in the Macken
15:15
period because that's the beginning of Islam.
15:18
The profits not going to come on the first day and tell them stop
15:20
drinking, stop eating pork, start fasting in Shaka madan,
15:25
pray five times a day. That's going to be too difficult
15:27
for everybody to digest. So you see in the Macken period,
15:31
the emphasis is all on belief. Believe this because of this
15:35
reason, rational reasons, believe in God because you see
15:38
the creation around you, pray or or believe in paradise in hell,
15:42
that's justice or all of all of this emphasis around the
15:45
beliefs. And then you have the Medini
15:47
period where there's the emphasis more on the rulings on
15:50
the akam of praying. And that's because Islam has now
15:54
been around for a significant amount of time now after the
15:58
hijra, now the the people are ready to now take on Islamic
16:02
rulings. Now they're ready to stop
16:04
drinking. Now they're ready to start
16:05
paying five times a day. So although the Quran isn't in a
16:10
chronological order with that level of insight, because
16:12
obviously each Surah you'll be able to see whether it is a
16:15
Meccan Sora or a or a, or a Medani sora.
16:19
So based on that insight, you would be able to kind of
16:23
understand why that verse, why that chapter is focusing on what
16:29
it's focusing on. So yeah.
16:32
Have you found anything in in particular that you've read so
16:35
far which really stood out to you?
16:37
Maybe a story? A particular sorta.
16:39
And also, can I add to that question as well?
16:41
As a Christian, I'm assuming that you would have gone through
16:46
the Bible to some extent and also be familiar with, I mean, I
16:51
don't because a lot of the prophets I mentioned in the
16:53
Quran as well are also obviously mentioned in the Bible.
16:56
So in terms of that, was there anything that stood out to you
16:59
that you were already familiar with?
17:01
Like as you said, you're reading stuff that you already almost
17:03
know, right? So anything that really stood
17:06
out to you, that stood out very similar to Christianity and the
17:11
Bible or anything else that stood out to you.
17:15
Yeah, Well, it's interesting that you raise the point because
17:18
to to be honest, when reading the Bible, most of my knowledge
17:22
of Christianity comes from just like school assemblies from when
17:26
I was at Christian primary school essentially.
17:29
I don't think I've ever actually, which is quite bad.
17:32
You know, as a, as a Christian, I don't think I've ever sat down
17:35
and read the Bible like a whole book or cover to cover
17:41
essentially. So as a result, it is, you know,
17:46
like you say, some of the stories are certainly familiar,
17:49
like with Sora Youssef, because I do remember many of the
17:52
stories when they were discussed or presented to us when I was
17:58
quite young, you know, you know, it's basically just an infant
18:03
growing up to be a junior just before secondary school.
18:06
Like with Sora Youssef. It did.
18:09
It did almost like I remember when I was reading it, I could
18:13
kind of remember it being taught to me.
18:16
So it was very, very interesting because the sort I don't know if
18:21
there was any small differences with the story of Yusuf in the
18:26
Quran and the Bible, but from what I remember from when I was
18:30
taught it when I was a lot younger, seemed pretty much the
18:34
same, to be honest with the because and there was a few
18:38
details that were, you know, that were mentioned in the
18:41
Quran. I was like, OK, where have I
18:44
heard that before? And it wasn't up up until I
18:48
think about halfway through the Sora where I was like, oh,
18:50
actually, I remember this. This is the story of Joseph in
18:55
from the Bible and Christianity. I think it was the part where
19:00
it's the thing about the cows. Yeah.
19:03
So I remember that. But yeah, you know, that's kind
19:08
of where where we've got up to, to be honest.
19:11
Nice. Nice, cool.
19:13
I think there's there's obviously so much which we want
19:16
to go through today, so you have to bear with us.
19:20
Can I ask about your, your experience with the Muslim
19:24
community and also in terms of practice or your testing of
19:27
practice? So of course, you became really
19:30
an Internet sensation, especially in Shahad Almavan.
19:34
And you'll notice obviously that your your social media went
19:38
bazonkers in Almavan in terms of your followers and your
19:42
engagement, which is amazing. And every day for me at least,
19:46
it was fascinating to see what you would have for Sahord and
19:50
what you would have for a bar and how you'd find your fast.
19:52
And if I'm not mistaken, you completed about 15 fasts across
19:56
the month. Firstly, in terms of Almavan,
19:58
why did you past and and secondly, how do you find it?
20:01
Yeah, So when I started reading the Quran and, you know, started
20:08
my journey with Islam as to say, I know it's like maybe a week or
20:14
two in, I didn't realise the Ramadan was so nearby.
20:18
It was, it was only about a month after I initially started
20:21
my Quran reading. So a lot of people actually
20:24
recommended, you know, to try out a few days of fasting and
20:27
see how I found it. So I kind of initially thought,
20:31
OK, let's do 10 days and see how it goes because it's not
20:35
something I've actually done before fasting.
20:37
And I've got a fast metabolism because we're kind of a
20:41
background in long distance running and that type of thing.
20:43
And I'm quite tall as well. So it to know with that.
20:47
But so, yeah, so I was like, OK, let's try this out and see how
20:51
we get on the The interesting thing for me with the Ramadan
20:55
fasting, something I wasn't didn't actually know before up
20:59
until this year, surprisingly, is that it was no food and
21:02
water. I initially thought it was just
21:04
no food, no food. And it was kind of like a.
21:07
Water intermittent fasting, Yeah.
21:10
Yeah, because I know a lot of people do intermittent fasting
21:12
for like health reasons and stuff.
21:14
Even quite a lot of non-Muslims do ask that question when when
21:17
they say not even water. 100 percent, 100%.
21:22
So, yeah. So that was kind of the aspect
21:26
where I was like, OK, this this could be a little bit difficult,
21:29
but I followed the advice. There's some very good advice
21:32
online. And all of my Muslim viewers or
21:35
some people I was speaking to very kindly gave some advice
21:39
about, you know, how to prepare for Sohor, how much water to
21:42
drink in what moderation and that type of thing.
21:45
So I think what I did thinking back, so with Sohor, a lot of
21:52
people recommend they're just having something like something
21:54
that isn't going to I guess bloat you before you go to bed,
21:58
so. Which is a mistake, but a lot of
22:00
museums still do. I think, I think I remember some
22:02
of your source. Can I try?
22:04
Yeah, yeah. The Weetabix.
22:06
That was the first one. Banana.
22:08
Proper English. Yeah, yoga dates.
22:12
This is the stuff that I was seeing on your on your timeline
22:14
daily. Yeah, I moved on from the
22:16
Weetabix because I remember I had it and then like, you know,
22:20
I ate it and then went to bed about an hour later after I'd
22:23
done the video and, you know, I drowned the water and stuff.
22:28
But I did feel a bit bloated, you know, You know, when you get
22:30
a bit of heart, but when you go to bed.
22:32
So I was like, OK, you know. It's not doing it for you.
22:35
Yeah. So I was like, am I just going
22:38
to have to firm this for the period or should I maybe change
22:41
it up a bit? So luckily a lot of people
22:44
recommended something light, so just a banana and a yoghurt or
22:49
something like that because it gives, you know, I guess a
22:52
necessary amount of nutrients while also not not bloating you.
22:58
So I'd had I'd have that and then I'd also drink 2 litres of
23:03
water, I think over the course of about half an hour to an
23:06
hour. That's a.
23:09
Lot of daily intake, yeah. Maybe maybe not 2 liters, but
23:14
between like 1-1 to 2A. Lot of water.
23:18
Yeah. Someone like at an event a few
23:23
weeks beforehand and they said they they recommended drinking
23:26
like 7 to 8 glasses of water during sahor.
23:30
That's they said, that's what they did and.
23:32
They were just, they were just worried people.
23:36
Well, but you did a really good just 15 fast amazing, my love.
23:40
Bless you honestly. Like that was amazing.
23:42
Absolutely amazing, honestly. 15 whole day first time.
23:46
And you know, do you do you feel like at any stage during those
23:49
fast or from when you started your journey into research into
23:52
the Quran when it comes to like your friend circle or your peers
23:56
at university or family? Did they say like Wolf, what are
23:59
you doing? Like what's going on?
24:02
Did you face any of this or not? Success.
24:05
There's some interest, but I wouldn't really say any of it
24:07
was negative, luckily. And you know, it's quite how
24:10
would you? What what about in terms of the
24:12
spirituality elements? So obviously Ramadan is such a
24:16
spiritual period. You went to the mosque a lot and
24:20
you were you went to the fetter praise as well and what not.
24:24
How was the spiritual element of you did the environment and
24:27
aura? Well, it was, it was very
24:29
fascinating to experience for the first time because before
24:33
Ramadan, before aid, of course I hadn't, I don't think I'd ever
24:37
been to a mosque like inside before.
24:40
So you know, when you mix that with going there for the first
24:45
time, meeting the community, speaking to people about their
24:49
experience practicing Islam and that type of thing, I found it
24:53
very fascinating. And when you talk about the
24:56
spirit spirituality aspect, so I think I mentioned in a couple of
25:02
more videos, actually I, I didn't listen to music
25:07
throughout the period. I substituted that I'm with
25:10
nasheeds and Islamic podcasts. He does so much more than a lot
25:16
of us. I love Muslims.
25:19
Yeah, so which I'll be honest because I am a musician, like I
25:23
play the trumpet, the piano and guitar and I also, so it was one
25:28
of my favorite things if I'm being 100% honest, which
25:31
probably isn't. You know, that's OK.
25:33
That's. Fine.
25:34
How do you find that though? Was was that hard for you being
25:37
someone that's a musician and like not being able to to do
25:42
what you love? Well, it was, it was difficult
25:46
to the end of it because I do just like, you know, when I'm
25:51
just chilling, sometimes I'll just randomly pick up the guitar
25:55
and start like playing some riff or something.
25:58
So I couldn't do that. And but do you know why It's
26:00
It's interesting because although I substituted the music
26:04
out of nasheeds and Islamic podcasts, I still actually
26:08
listen to nasheeds to this day. I kind of listened to it
26:11
alongside what I usually listen to.
26:14
Can I recommend a Nasheed artist to you?
26:16
Yeah, sure. He's honestly, honestly, he's an
26:20
ashed artist. How did one.
26:22
Which thousand? Says here, yeah, yeah, yeah,
26:25
yeah. You'll you'll see after we've
26:26
finished. Shall we you guys?
26:28
Are. Yeah, I never know.
26:29
I'll have to have a look then. Yeah, he's well known.
26:32
Is it in? Yeah, why some carbalay?
26:35
Is it in Arabic or? It's no, I mainly reside in
26:39
English and I keep the Arabic outside of studio work.
26:44
Oh sorry, I keep the English outside of studio work.
26:46
Excellent, because the I think I'm just trying to think so
26:51
someone told me the requirement for like to qualifies a Nasheed
26:56
instead of like a piece of music almost.
26:59
And so obviously there's no musical instruments, but there's
27:02
like a very specific drum you can have and then there's
27:07
obviously you can sing or vocals, I guess.
27:10
Yeah, so there is difference of opinion usually with regards to
27:13
what instruments are allowed and what isn't.
27:15
But usually that drum, the one that you'd be referring to would
27:18
be the one with no back, if I'm right, I think they call it.
27:22
Yeah, that's exactly. They used to use it in war.
27:26
And it was very common at the time of the Prophet as well.
27:28
Even when the Prophet entered into Medina, there are some
27:32
reports that the people of Medina hit the that type of drum
27:36
specifically in his in welcoming him.
27:39
So, yeah, with regards to like Islamic history, that that
27:42
specific instrument does have quite a bit of significance.
27:44
And that's why, generally speaking, in the sheets, it's
27:47
it's used because that's what would have been used at the time
27:50
of the Prophet. Cool.
27:53
Yeah, All right guys. So moving, moving the
27:54
conversation further. You are now in London, of
27:59
course, and we've kind of taken over your life and fact in fact
28:03
in the whole itinerary view which which you've been doing
28:05
amazing with today, you met different on Omar, different
28:10
chefs, you went to different Islamic centres.
28:13
Shout out to Stanmore in the morning.
28:15
You went to die in Islam after Dohar, and now you are here
28:20
after Magdav, so things work out, right?
28:23
So obviously this is your first experience interacting with the
28:27
Shia community up until now, of course, you've interacted with
28:31
the Sunni community. We are in many ways very
28:35
similar. Of course, with the knowledge of
28:38
the communities comes different experiences.
28:40
You meet different people. How has your interaction been
28:43
with the communities, all the different communities you've
28:45
been to, and how has your research into the differences
28:50
and the similarities between both sects been for you?
28:54
Yeah, so the experiences with pretty much everyone I've, you
28:58
know, visited or who I've gone to a mosque or an event with has
29:03
been, it's been excellent, to be honest, pretty much every time
29:07
has been a very positive experience.
29:09
Everyone's been lovely, you know, very accepting.
29:12
And when it comes to the the differences between Shia and
29:17
Sunni and my research before this visit, actually it was, it
29:22
was a question I had because I was quite interested in it and I
29:25
did ask a few people. But obviously you want to hear
29:27
from both perspectives what, you know, people who profess to
29:31
practice each sect, I guess you'd call it, or each school of
29:37
thought. Yeah, yeah, that, that that's
29:39
it. And hear from, you know, the
29:41
people themselves, whether that be scholars or, you know, just
29:45
people who are practising in each, in each school of thought.
29:50
So before this weekend, my, my only knowledge of the, you know,
29:55
the differences was the line of succession of the Prophet after
29:59
the, after his death. But beyond that, I wasn't too
30:05
sure. Like I knew there's kind of a
30:07
dispute, you know, a group of people for it should be Ali and
30:11
a group of people thought it should be Abu Baker.
30:13
And up until pretty much today, actually, the sheikhs actually
30:18
outlined the the Shia sheikhs today who I spoke to outlined,
30:25
you know, in quite comprehensive detail how that kind of worked
30:29
the line of succession. And then following on from that,
30:33
what happened with slightly different practices in some
30:37
instances in terms of how the Salah prayer is performed and,
30:42
you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, obviously I'm
30:47
still no expert, I'm still learning.
30:48
But yeah, it's, it's been very interesting today, especially to
30:53
listen to and hear about some of the differences.
30:56
And I know it can sometimes be a bit of a controversial topic
31:01
almost. So I've, you know, I've kind of
31:03
refrained from talking about it thus far because, you know,
31:07
it's, I think it's one of those things where you've got to hear
31:10
from the people directly to listen to the opinions and to
31:14
also listen to, you know, the the school of Fort in, in detail
31:19
before commenting on it. So yeah.
31:23
I mean, but you're a researcher, right?
31:24
So it doesn't have to be always controversial.
31:28
A lot of the time it can be academic.
31:30
I mean, you, me and Mohammed met up last night and we had a
31:34
really nice chat and we talked about black and white
31:38
differences and similarities between the schools of thoughts
31:43
and how we feel, at least as a podcaster said, I'm sure you'll
31:46
agree. But we, we try to exclude the
31:49
emotion with it and, and look at the rationale when it comes to
31:52
opinions, especially the opinions of Shia Muslims and
31:57
with the rationale and then comes loyalty.
31:58
And with loyalty then comes emotion for us.
32:01
And we, that emotion of course fills us with pride and honour
32:06
to be followers of Amir Ali Ali Salaam, to be followers of Imam
32:10
Ali, who of course himself was a follower of the Holy Prophet
32:13
Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Salaam.
32:15
And to be to be given the title of, of being a follower of Ali,
32:20
a Shia of Ali in itself is something that fills us with
32:23
pride. And we know that that is
32:24
all-encompassing because being a follower of Ali is being a
32:27
follower of Muhammad, being a follow up Muhammad is, is to
32:29
abide by the, the rulings and the, and the commands of our
32:32
last panel to Allah. So we, we try our best at least
32:37
as as a podcast. And I think you've probably
32:39
found thus far as a Shia community to avoid unnecessary
32:44
sectarianism and a lot of the, the narrative and the rhetoric
32:48
that comes within, I'd say the Muslim community in, in the UK,
32:52
which sometimes is confrontational when it doesn't
32:54
need to be. What do you guys think?
32:58
I echo every word you said. That's that's, I think that's
33:01
literally what makes our, our, our beliefs and how happy that's
33:05
something that we are comfortable with.
33:07
Like if, if someone ever wants to approach any of our LMR, any
33:10
of our scholars or any of our anyone who practices the the 12
33:15
of school of four is that ask us, inquire with us.
33:19
We're not going to shy away from it.
33:20
We're not going to hide anything away from you.
33:22
We're going to be legit. We're going to say it as it is
33:25
and as clear as they. I'm not trying to say other
33:27
school thoughts don't do this, but what I'm trying to say is
33:30
that we are proud of our history and we are proud of our belief.
33:34
We are proud of our acrid there, that we are comfortable to say
33:37
that these are the pristine teachings of Rasul Allah
33:40
Muhammad Sallallallahu Ali Hawaihi Wasallam as told by him.
33:43
And so our source always goes back to, as Ahmed alluded to,
33:47
which was Imam, IE representative Rasul Allah in
33:51
every sense is that Rasulullah ultimini goes back to Allah
33:54
subhanahu Watala. So there's always like a direct
33:56
chain of connection from the Creator to his messengers to his
34:00
representatives on this earth. And, you know, in our car
34:04
journey on the way here, we spoke a little about, you know,
34:08
should we look at the differences?
34:10
But something I noticed is that you had the photo uploaded today
34:14
on your Instagram page. OK.
34:16
And it was based on a a visit you had Darren Islam sent to
34:21
here in northwest London. And I was just going through the
34:24
comments. I, I don't want to take the
34:26
conversation this way, but I was just going through these
34:28
comments and I was like, why would you do this to someone
34:30
inquiring about Islam? But I just want to know what is
34:34
going through your head when you read such comments because you
34:38
visited a Shia centre, for example.
34:40
Yes, I mean, I said that. I mean, that's why I said it's
34:44
kind of a bit of a difficult subject, almost bit
34:48
controversial almost when when you're covering it.
34:51
I do understand, like, of course, you know, if someone's
34:56
been exposed to certain narrative about, you know, Shia
35:01
or Sunni, whether than whether you practice any school of four,
35:04
how you know that can sometimes turn into a, a negative thing.
35:08
And then as a result, you know, since that's, that's how you've
35:13
been raised, you kind of carry that train of thought on.
35:17
But to be honest, when it comes to comments and stuff like that,
35:22
I I think it's important when you're looking at comments and
35:26
addressing like either criticism or constructive criticism to
35:32
understand whether you know, the person, I guess making the
35:37
comment is actually trying to offer this comment is, is
35:44
offering potential benefit or whether it's from a place of
35:49
maybe emotion, I guess. So when you know, when I look
35:54
through comments, maybe the post from today, for example, I
35:59
understand, yeah, there's a lot of emotion attached to the
36:01
subject. And I think when you look
36:03
through the comments, it is it's probably mainly an emotional
36:08
response from certain people. And I think, but you know, on
36:14
the whole, there's someone who's just looking into it, trying to
36:17
learn. You're seeing it from the
36:18
outside. In there, yeah, that's it.
36:20
So someone who's just trying to learn, you don't want to.
36:26
I don't put too much thought into it because The thing is
36:30
with online comment sections and stuff like that, you've got to
36:34
make the clear distinction about not taking some comments and
36:39
generalising. So I tried to do that like I'll,
36:44
you know, like today where there's some comments made in
36:47
the comment section about, you know, certain things about the
36:52
trip and and that sort of thing. I kind of tried to just, you
36:56
know, put it to the back of my mind and it doesn't, it doesn't
36:59
affect me too much to be honest. It's, it's about knowing where
37:02
to where to take on board criticism and where, you know,
37:06
it's perhaps more of a, an emotional, I guess, response.
37:11
I think, I think that's why I think what, what Ahmed was
37:14
saying, just to echo what he was saying, it's, it's really
37:17
important that and, and we do as she try our best to keep
37:23
everything as academic as possible.
37:25
And obviously someone, as somebody who is interested in
37:28
academia for us is just the hard facts of what happened during
37:33
the time of the prophet, what happened during the time of the
37:35
Imams? Where do we find actual and true
37:39
guidance and as per the Quran and as per what the prophet
37:43
said. And that is where I think the
37:46
academia needs to be really focused and emphasized upon
37:51
before we get to the emotional sides of things.
37:54
But unfortunately, with most Muslims, both Shia and certainly
37:57
included, there are many individuals that are not so well
38:01
versed in the academic side of things, but are very much
38:05
attached to their emotional connection to whichever sector
38:09
is that they follow. And I think it's really
38:10
important to come away from all of that level of emotion when
38:14
looking into a religion like Islam with the differences that
38:18
we have. So yeah, the academic, the study
38:21
is, is is immensely important. I think just to add as well, and
38:26
I know we said that the, the rationale breeds emotion.
38:30
And I think that's because there's confidence in belief and
38:34
the confidence in belief is so critical from at least from the
38:40
perspective. I think as all of us, when we
38:42
look at the research angle of, of religion, we, we've learned
38:47
that I think Shiism, well, we've all been on a journey,
38:49
especially myself, I, I was on a journey where I was looking into
38:52
Sunni Islam and was looking to Shiite Islam and I was trying to
38:55
understand if, if what I'm following is, is correct.
38:58
And I realised that she is, at least to me, is is a sect or, or
39:03
a school of thought which encourages critical thinking,
39:06
which encourages questions. And we've seen that throughout
39:10
history until today. And we've been able to find
39:14
answers where needed. And of course a lot of people
39:19
will look at the Shia school of thought and be able to say that
39:21
this is a school of thought which is very emotional.
39:24
And I think we are, there is a lot of emotion and that comes
39:27
with the love for those who, you know, for, for the Alabama
39:31
Salaam and also those who love them.
39:33
And of course, those who disassociate from the Alabama,
39:36
we, we, we tend to disassociate from them as well.
39:39
We've also spoken a lot about Muharram, which is coming up in
39:43
the, in the coming few weeks, you know, the first month of the
39:45
lunar calendar where we mourn the death of Imam Hussain, the
39:48
grandson, the Holy Prophet, which I think for Muslims around
39:52
the world, hundreds of millions of Muslims is, is a peak time of
39:55
year to mourn his death, a tragedy of Karbala, which
39:58
happened on the 61st year after Hedgela.
40:03
And we've obviously talked about Imam Hussain.
40:05
And I know one of your aspirations is to tour the
40:08
Islamic world and that includes the Arbaian pilgrimage as well.
40:11
From your own perspective or what?
40:15
Whatever basic research you've done?
40:18
What intrigues you about the emotional aspect of Islam and
40:22
particularly Shiism? Why?
40:23
Why are you interested in, for example, hopefully Inshaallah
40:27
one day being able to do the Arbai pilgrimage?
40:31
So the interesting thing is, is I guess if you're talking about
40:38
what what interests me about going on the pilgrimage.
40:42
Yeah, going to Arbai and doing the walk and visiting the
40:45
shrines and so on. Yes, it's, it's really many
40:47
things. It's both a religious side, but
40:51
it's also, you know, as someone who's kind of just got around to
40:54
travelling a bit more recently actually, it just should be a
40:59
great opportunity to visit some very prominent historical sites,
41:04
meet the communities there and kind of embrace the culture
41:08
almost while I'm there. It's all these sorts of things,
41:12
you know, you get when you go on a trip like our buy in from from
41:16
what I've seen and from what I expect if I do manage to go on,
41:19
it is, you know, it's of course the doing of the pilgrimage.
41:24
And then also you've got the like I say, speaking to people,
41:30
speaking with other people on the trip, their reasons for
41:34
going, whether that'd be religious.
41:36
I know a lot of non-Muslims have started going, a few, you know,
41:41
there's been a few vloggers and that type of thing who've done
41:45
the trip in the past few years since it's been safe to go.
41:49
And I think it to be honest, pretty much everything about the
41:53
trip intrigues me because as well as that I've never been to
41:56
a Middle Eastern country, country of that climate.
42:01
So that that, you know, is, is definitely an experience.
42:04
I want to. You told me yesterday say if you
42:07
weren't there, but he told Wolf told me about Ali.
42:09
He said there's natural habitat is between 5 and 10°C.
42:15
He's in for a tree and Iraq in August is not that's a killer.
42:20
Yeah, I. Think the time I went for Albert
42:22
Ian, we was looking at 45°. But a lot of it happens in the
42:26
night time. Great.
42:27
Good luck. Yeah.
42:29
But a lot of it's in the night. It's mainly in the night if
42:32
we're talking about the walk, Yeah.
42:34
So people tend to avoid the the daytime, the noon time because
42:38
that's when the sun is at small peak.
42:40
But the beautiful thing about during the pilgrimage seasons is
42:43
that electricity is pretty much almost 24/7.
42:46
So whenever you need like, to cool down, there's always a
42:48
place where you can go, you know, open a fridge, a freezer,
42:51
drink cold water or be on the some air conditioning.
42:53
So as much as yeah, we say it's too hot, it's easy.
42:56
I think it's easy. It's manageable manageable.
42:58
How many times have you been saved?
43:00
I've been, yeah, I think about six times.
43:05
Or more? Six times, yes.
43:07
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I need, I need like advice
43:10
or tips or so I myself, I've been once, but I haven't done
43:15
yeah, but I haven't I've done bits and pieces of them because
43:18
we were doing media work. So I can experience the fall.
43:21
I did the three day walk. Yeah, because I was back and.
43:23
Forth two day 2 day for. Two day, but I think for the
43:26
slower ones it's. Good.
43:28
Yeah. And if I say advise, travel
43:30
wise, spirituality aside, is pack lights.
43:35
There. Is there is absolutely no point
43:37
when you're going towards Karbala during this, this the
43:40
Irvine season Xiara is that because everything is available
43:44
to you, it's gonna be extremely impossible to not have the
43:49
facilities or the services or amenities that you require
43:52
similar to what you have here in the UK that you wouldn't find
43:55
there. And the beautiful thing about
43:56
it, it's pretty much free. And it's, I don't know, during
44:01
my entire Ziara time when I've been to Karbala during Irvine,
44:04
that I have had to put my hands in my pocket to pay for
44:08
something. It's very impossible.
44:10
And you know, Iraqis are very hospitable and especially during
44:14
Ziara seasons, everyone just wants to serve anyone that wants
44:18
to walk towards Karbala. And it's beautiful, it's
44:21
magical, it's amazing. And I can guarantee you when you
44:25
go and come back, you'll make so much positive memories.
44:28
Yeah, 100%. I think 22 tips is is as I said,
44:32
Ali said. Pack light and comfortable
44:34
footwear. Those are your two most
44:36
important sketches. Sketches.
44:37
Yeah, yeah. Sketches, yeah.
44:40
Sketches. That's true.
44:40
I. Said Joe.
44:41
Everything. That was my lifesaver.
44:42
I've bought sketches about, I think five Times Now, and I've
44:46
always had to change them off that way.
44:47
Yeah. So they last until the walk.
44:52
Yeah, you'll probably pick up stuff on the way as well.
44:54
So I we made this mistake when we went, we actually took some
44:56
stuff with us and then on the way we ended up picking up books
45:00
and picking up and then by the end of the walk it was getting
45:04
heavy. So yeah, packing light is
45:06
really, really important. And Albain, like said Ali said,
45:09
you get everything literally for free, so.
45:12
By the end of your especially like your exploration of the
45:16
Quran and whatnot, or I mean, when you set out into, into your
45:20
journey of discovery of, of religion, did you have an end
45:23
goal in mind? Do you have like a point where
45:26
you can say this is a target or or kind of a metric that I'm
45:29
trying to achieve? Yeah.
45:31
So it's interesting because a lot of people have asked a
45:34
similar question and in my original video, I said I was
45:38
going to look into all the major religions.
45:41
Obviously start with Islam because that's where I guess the
45:44
majority of my interest is that definitely at the moment and
45:47
hopefully going forward. But yeah, essentially the goal
45:52
was to kind of research or religion or all major religion
45:57
in as much detail as possible. And like I think I mentioned
46:02
earlier, but as well as the theological side, if you look at
46:06
the impact of religion on political systems, legal systems
46:10
around the world, and this is something that's interested me
46:13
about Islam, you know, the different interpretations of
46:16
Islamic law and. Sharia law normally had on the
46:20
Western news outlets. Yeah, Sharia law around, you
46:25
know, the Muslim world and, you know, across the world and that
46:29
type of thing. It's all, you know, with someone
46:33
who studies law. It's all stuff that really
46:35
fascinates me. So yeah, I mean, in terms of the
46:38
end goal, I'm not. I'll be honest, I'm not.
46:41
I'm not too sure where I'll end up, to be honest, in terms of
46:45
having gone through all the major religions, whether I'll
46:49
sit back and kind of reconsider faith or I'll be in a different
46:54
spot. But you know, we'll have to see.
46:56
It should definitely be interesting.
46:58
I think that's a great way to go about it because it's an honest
47:00
way to go about it as well and to see where the what you, what
47:05
you are researching, where it takes you.
47:07
And I think that's, that's just the best way to do it, I think.
47:10
Yeah, I think coming in with any kind of bias or subjectivity
47:14
will probably hold you back more than being honest with yourself,
47:18
with seeing what you see face value and being able to
47:21
appreciate for what it is. Yeah, yeah.
47:24
Absolutely. Yeah, Cool.
47:26
I think we should start getting into the, the last part of the,
47:29
the discussion. Is there anything that you
47:33
perhaps want to ask or anything that you, because I know we've
47:36
spoken a lot in the last few months.
47:39
Is there anything that that maybe piques your interest
47:43
either about Shiism or about Islam in general or the
47:46
community or anything else? Yeah.
47:48
So speaking today with many of the sheikhs, there's a few
47:53
things that have actually that did certainly piqued my interest
47:57
about Shia Islam and that type of thing.
48:01
Visited my first ever Shia mosque today.
48:04
Looking at some of the the differences to some of the
48:08
mosques I've been to before, because usually at the front of
48:11
I guess you would say Sunni mosque, it usually has the
48:15
calligraphy of Allah and the Prophet.
48:18
But in the mosque I went to today, or one of the ones I went
48:21
to, it had to add a law at the top.
48:24
And then it also had the the prophet, and then it had his
48:26
daughter Fatima at the bottom. And then all around the room, it
48:30
had kind of like, yeah, the plaques of the 12 imams.
48:34
So it was like you were telling me yesterday actually, when we
48:38
had a conversation about the line of succession and how that
48:42
kind of differs in Shiism. That's something that does
48:46
interest me and the, I guess the role that the 12 imams played
48:53
throughout the whole period. And like you said, I think if
48:57
I'm getting this right, but they led, this is the belief that
49:00
they led sinless life since she is.
49:03
Infallibles. And that so was it?
49:05
Was it 14 people Who? 14 infallibles including the
49:10
Prophet and his daughter Fatima and the 12 Imams.
49:15
So these 14 individuals we would consider to be completely
49:18
infallible based on a verse from the Quran chapter #33 when you
49:24
get to it, verse 33, God says that indeed Allah only wishes to
49:30
remove all impurities from you. All people of the household
49:33
activate the word we were discussing yesterday and to
49:36
purify you a thorough purification.
49:38
So we take that as our kind of base evidence in the Quran,
49:45
which is also supplemented with a lot of a hadith from the
49:48
Prophet or sayings of the Prophet, where it is evidence
49:53
that these 14 individuals were divinely made sinless and pure
49:58
from all impurities. So and I think something else if
50:03
we can also refer to the Quran when it comes to this chapter 33
50:08
verse 33 is a lovely one everyone always uses, but I
50:10
think there's another one. Correct me if I'm saying
50:13
incorrectly. It's and then which is basically
50:20
a lost fan of he's saying, you know, tell the people, tell the
50:23
Muslims that I'm not asking anything from you except that
50:26
you have nearness and love towards my family to my near
50:29
ones. And that that's one of the
50:31
things. And then, you know, we also have
50:32
this world of hadith and narrations by Rasul Allah.
50:35
And there are many authentic narrations we come across.
50:37
One in particular is called Hadith Thakalane, where Rasul
50:41
Allah Salallahu Alaihi. And he says to all the Muslim,
50:44
to all the believers out there, that I am leaving behind two
50:47
weighty things, the Quran, the book of Allah, and my Ehlil
50:52
Bates, my Ehlil Bates, my Ehlil Bates, which he alluded to three
50:56
times on many, many occasions. So these are like many reasons
50:59
why maybe you'll enter a Shia mosque or some Shia hosseiniya,
51:03
some Shia Imam burgers. You will see us have with the
51:07
calligraphy of the Ilahallah Muhammad Rasulallah, the names
51:11
of the Ehlbate, the Masoomin, Ali Hansal.
51:13
And also I think another important point to note is that
51:17
when we look at the Quran, when we look at the groups of people
51:20
that existed the time of the Prophet, there's three groups of
51:23
people that are spoken about in the Quran.
51:25
Either it is the general companions, the wives of the
51:28
Prophet, or the athletes, the household of the prophet.
51:33
We see that with regards to the companions, there are positive
51:36
verses and there are negative verses.
51:39
With regards to the wives, we have the same thing.
51:41
We have positive verses and we have negative verses, but it's
51:45
only the athletes in the Quran that is mentioned as a group
51:49
that is only ever spoken about positively.
51:51
So we spoke about the verse 3333.
51:55
We spoke about this verse where the Prophet said that I do not
51:59
ask you of anything except to be kind and virtuous towards my
52:02
family. There's the verse that we spoke
52:05
about yesterday and one that you've alluded to in your clips
52:07
with regards to the Prophet meeting with the Christians.
52:11
And it was in that event that he brought all of his family along
52:15
Mubahala. And, and that again is
52:18
significance and the importance of the family of a prophet, that
52:21
those were the people that he decided to bring along with him
52:24
when challenged with regards to the faith and with regards to
52:27
the religion. These were the four most
52:29
important people to him, even though two of them would have
52:32
been little children at that point.
52:35
So yeah, that we see a lot of emphasis in the Quran with
52:38
regards to the Prophet's family, and they are only ever spoken
52:41
about positively. So for us that it's it's
52:45
logically and rationally the safest people to follow from the
52:48
Quran and the most beautiful of course follow in terms of their
52:54
example of the prophet and how they followed the Prophet.
52:57
Of course, of course this is as it goes without saying, this is
53:00
our belief. So in no way do we want you to
53:02
feel cornered or not like. You.
53:06
Know we, we don't want to impose anything on you.
53:08
And you know, I think from our own research, we've come to
53:11
these conclusions and you will come to your own conclusions
53:14
through your own research as well, I think goes without
53:17
saying. And that final word as well,
53:19
like the, the, the Shia community is highly
53:21
misrepresented. It's highly misunderstood.
53:24
But ultimately you are the judge yourself and and those you meet
53:28
and those who you deem to be trustworthy and reliable
53:30
individuals will be adequate representatives of of the Shia
53:34
school of thought. And the same for Alison or
53:36
Jamar. There are some amazing scholars,
53:38
amazing individuals from the Sunni community who we associate
53:43
with and who we, we, you know, break bread with and who we have
53:46
great respect for as well. So I think all Muslims, all of
53:50
your followers would want to thank you for bringing your
53:54
knowledge, your research to us as a Muslim community, for
53:58
allowing us to learn from you. So thank you so much, Will, for
54:01
everything you do. Hopefully it's not the last time
54:03
we we see you on after muggling. I know we've got obviously some
54:05
stuff in the pipeline together, which is really exciting.
54:09
And yeah, man, hope you you have a great stay in London.
54:14
You're really getting the full London experience now with the
54:17
kebabs and like the fried chicken and everything, but
54:22
hopefully you can engage a lot more with it.
54:24
And yeah, man, it would be great to have you back on again soon.
54:26
Also, just before we finish, I've got two books to to gift to
54:30
you. Wow.
54:31
I. Really appreciate that mate.
54:36
Yeah. You can you can open them up
54:38
now. So one of them is, is a abridged
54:43
exegesis of sora #7, which you would have already read.
54:47
I thought it would be a good idea for you to get basically a
54:49
better idea of the depth of how the Quran is basically the
54:53
exegesis of the Quran. And it's by a very famous
54:56
Shiascolla, one of the most famous Tafasia, which is called
54:59
he's on by Alamo Tabatuwaii. And also we have then I was
55:04
guided by Sheikh Hasimawi, who's a convert to Shiism and his
55:08
story coming from a Sunni background and how he understood
55:13
Shiism and the people that he met and all of his experience.
55:15
So I hope you enjoy those books. And obviously that's from myself
55:18
and from the after another team. Absolutely.
55:21
Well. Nice.
55:23
I mean, thank you very much guys.
55:25
This I've, I very much look forward to getting into this.
55:28
So yes, it's been great to be on and definitely I'll have to come
55:32
back again at some point. Final question, where can people
55:35
find your your content? Yeah, so you can find me on
55:38
Instagram at Wilf Lovett Geo. Hopefully I can.
55:43
You know you can spell that, right?
55:45
I can spell. That what the I reckon, I reckon
55:48
enough. Follow is that if you just write
55:50
Wolf Love, it'll come up, so it'll be fine, yeah.
55:55
Yeah, yeah, you'll be fine. But and then it's Wolf love it
55:58
on TikTok and then on YouTube. I've I've not started doing
56:03
proper long form content yet, but I've uploaded some of like
56:06
the compilations of my Sora analysis or analysis again and
56:14
and that's just willful of it productions so hopefully can
56:18
make some more long to form content.
56:20
Everyone subscribe to will follow him on on all social
56:22
media. Also that's subscribe to the
56:25
podcast that's. Subscribe.
56:26
Also make sure you watch all my that's of course we've had the
56:30
series we're. Entering Week 3.
56:32
We're entry week 3 and Shah, we're going to have five
56:34
episodes in total with regards to our relationship with the
56:37
Quran, how we should interact with the Quran.
56:39
And yeah, after that, we've got some exciting content coming up
56:42
with regards to the history of classical books of hadith.
56:46
Said Ali. Did you enjoy the horror film
56:48
Makata Art? I'll let you know after the
56:52
point. I did enjoy this point, trust
56:54
and I, and I think it, it became a reminder to me that I sort of
56:58
should open up the Quran more and build a better relationship
57:01
with my, with my holy book and better to start.
57:07
And you know, I, I wish you the best in, in this journey of
57:10
trying to understand, I would say the most beautiful religion
57:14
out there and Insha'allah understanding all the different
57:17
sects out there. But in particular, I do want to
57:19
say that with all this research, whether you find Islam at the
57:23
end of the day or not, I do hope and pray that you do find
57:26
benefit from the teachings of Rasul Allah, from, you know why
57:30
Allah makes certain things unlawful.
57:32
Some things are permissible, some things he recommends,
57:35
something he tells you stay far away from.
57:37
Because Islam to us in particular is not just faith,
57:40
it's a way of life. It helps better society.
57:43
And you know, Insha Allah, it gets us to paradise at the end
57:47
of the show all. Right, Wolf, thank you very
57:51
much. Well, Ali, thank you, bro.
57:53
Yeah, Ali, really appreciate your your appearance as well.
57:56
Saying that, Ali, I'm always pleasure.
57:58
Man pleasure bro Wolf Yeah, love this conversation.
58:02
Guys, make sure we subscribe to after marketing.
58:04
We will be back next week. While these guys still share,
58:08
make sure you subscribe. We've got obviously a lot of
58:10
content coming up in the next couple of months and we need
58:13
your data because we've got, yeah, a lot to do and we can
58:16
only do it with your support. So yeah, we will see you next
58:19
week. Take care.
58:21
So I've got a.