Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 105: Are You a Validation Junkie? How Approval Addiction Destroys Authenticity

Transcript

105: Are You a Validation Junkie? How Approval Addiction Destroys Authenticity · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey, everybody. OK, so if you heard of this
0:01
thing called a validation junkie, I think I've talked
0:04
about it in past podcast episodes, but what is a
0:07
validation junkie? Are you 1?
0:11
And let's think about this question.
0:12
When did somebody else's opinion become more important than your
0:15
own? Think about that in your life.
0:17
Just kind of reflect on that for a second.
0:19
When did somebody else's thoughts and opinions become
0:23
more important than your own? What was that like?
0:25
OK. That's what we're going to get
0:27
into today. Welcome to be on the Facade.
0:31
I'm your host, Luke Gordon, men's program director at Choose
0:33
Recovery Services and founder of the Blueprint Institute.
0:36
For years I've had the privilege of working with men who are
0:39
tired of living behind masks, tired of repeating the same
0:42
patterns, and ready for something more.
0:45
It's worth. It's deeply personal to me
0:46
because my own recovery journey has taught me first hand both
0:49
the challenges and the rewards of pursuing authenticity.
0:53
This podcast exists to help men build lives rooted in
0:56
authenticity, integrity, and meaningful connection.
0:59
Together we're going to explore recovery, relationships,
1:02
emotional health, and personal growth, and the challenges that
1:05
keep us from becoming who we truly want to be.
1:08
Through honest conversations, practical tools and real world
1:11
insights, and occasional stories from my own journey, my goal is
1:14
to help you better understand yourself, strengthen your
1:17
relationships, and create lasting change.
1:19
So whether this is your first episode or you've been with us
1:22
from the very beginning, you're joining a community of men
1:25
committed to doing the deeper work.
1:26
So welcome to Beyond the Facade. Let's get started all.
1:32
Right. So everybody, welcome back.
1:35
Glad that you were here. And we had this podcast episode,
1:38
I don't remember how many it was ago, couple months ago, 2-3
1:41
months ago, we had Ryan join us and it was on humility and we
1:46
were trying to decide between three different podcasts, which
1:49
one we're going to release and ended up going humility and it
1:52
hit pretty well. It's probably one of the most
1:54
well received podcast in a little while.
1:56
I don't know what that says about me that I didn't know
1:58
humility was going to hit so hard as far as the podcast goes,
2:01
but it did. And Ryan, you were is your idea.
2:05
Do you want to talk about a part of your recovery journey?
2:07
So welcome back. I'm glad to have you here.
2:10
For those who didn't listen that episode, reintroduce yourself.
2:12
Tell us what you want us to want people to know about you.
2:16
Well, boy, you use the phrase validation junkie, and I
2:20
remember the first time you said that to me, I was like, it was a
2:25
fighting word. What do you mean?
2:26
The validation junkie? What does that mean?
2:28
So now I, yeah, I mean a little bit about me.
2:31
Just been doing recovery for almost 4 years now.
2:35
I've been working on my recovery, diving into a lot of
2:38
things about myself that I didn't know, things I didn't
2:40
want to really acknowledge or address, right.
2:44
All the things you push down, but your program has been great
2:47
and you guys are you just do a phenomenal job.
2:50
So I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be supportive and
2:53
take all the areas where I made mistakes or where, you know, I,
2:58
I feel like if a guy like me can do this and give back and say,
3:02
hey, here's all the things that I here's the way I was a mess
3:06
and here's the things that I have looked at now I want to
3:08
share that and, and if I can do it, anybody can do it.
3:12
So just. Think thank you Ryan, Ryan's a
3:16
peer mentor in one of our some of our men's groups and the
3:19
recovery world might call you a bit of a sponsor.
3:22
It's like, hey, go get a sponsor.
3:23
Somebody that's walked the path already before me, somebody that
3:25
can speak truth to me and validate me and experiences that
3:28
are hard. So I just want all of us to be
3:31
able to be around people like Ryan, who's walked the journey,
3:34
knows what it looks like, and then gets a chance to hear his
3:36
voice and the pain associated and also the the joys of
3:40
recovery. So glad you're back here, Ryan.
3:42
So we're going to jump to this podcast episode.
3:44
I'm going to give you an analogy that was shared with me that I
3:48
really loved. And then Ryan, I want to hear
3:50
more about if you could just think for a second when I called
3:53
you a validation junkie, what came up for you and what the
3:55
context of that was that you can remember.
3:58
But here's what it's like the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
4:02
And so I like the book. Just be careful with the book
4:05
because it's not extremely sensitive to trade partners.
4:07
But if you haven't read it, pick it up.
4:09
But it talks about no more Mr. Nice Guy really living a life
4:13
where other people accept me through my own performance,
4:15
through how I show up in the way that they want me to.
4:17
Let's talk integrity here for a second.
4:19
OK, If you have a do you have let's compare integrity to like
4:24
a steel beam, Steel beam. You can build a bridge out of
4:27
it, right? And this bridge goes across this
4:29
river and you can send anything across this bridge for the most
4:32
part, Big O huge 18 Wheeler trucks bunch of the time.
4:36
Think about maybe to some bridge or where a Brooklyn Bridge or
4:39
the San Francisco Bridge, the Golden Gate Bridge, and it's
4:41
built out of steel and this steel has a bunch of integrity.
4:45
Like it doesn't change shape. Drive a truck over it doesn't
4:48
change the shape that it's in. Let's compare the opposite to
4:51
it. Let's say it wet noodle, wet
4:53
noodle. It's it's once it's that wet
4:56
noodle will take the shape of anything.
4:57
It'll take the shape of the spoon that it's in the bowl that
5:00
it's in just laying flat on the countertop, whatever it might
5:03
be. Not a lot of integrity.
5:05
This experience of what as we go through recovery, mine was as I
5:12
would take the shape of anybody and anything that I was around.
5:15
So I'm maybe exaggerating a little bit, but it's a good part
5:18
of my life. If but there was a client, a
5:20
customer, my friend, my partner, whatever it was, I would measure
5:26
them, look at them, size them up and go, boy do they want me to
5:31
be. And that's who I would be.
5:32
And I was a professional at it. I would love to say I've shed
5:35
all those character flaws and weaknesses that help me be able
5:38
to measure and size people up to, to wonder who I should be.
5:41
I still deal with those thoughts.
5:43
But that's what we're talking about today is that lack of
5:47
integrity that I'm going to be who somebody else wants me to
5:49
be. So Ryan, when they think of when
5:51
you think about your journey and you can go back to the time that
5:54
maybe I said, hey, you're a validation junkie.
5:56
What were we talking about? What was that all about what you
5:58
said? Those are fighting words.
5:59
What was happening? If I remember right, we were
6:02
still getting to know each other, right?
6:05
And you were just asking me some questions and you just assessed
6:10
it really quick. You're like, I know what the
6:11
problem is. You're a validation company.
6:13
Then I was like, nobody's ever said what is that?
6:16
You know what I mean? But but it was so spot on.
6:19
And it's, it was a moment of back to humility, but being
6:22
like, OK, what does he really mean versus like, no, I'm not,
6:26
you know what I mean? And I think in that moment, I
6:30
was so curious about learning about myself that I just
6:33
received it and I started really exploring, hey, what does that
6:36
mean? And what areas of my life have I
6:40
really been so subjected to, to validation in letting that drive
6:46
me versus my own values and wants?
6:49
So that was for me. What was what were you like?
6:53
Well, if you identified as being a validation junkie, what would
6:56
it give you? What would it?
6:57
What was it like a day in the life of validation junkie?
7:00
It's funny, at a younger age I almost used to pride myself on.
7:05
I used to call myself a chameleon before I even knew
7:08
what validation was. I remember thinking, man, I can
7:11
hang out with anybody. I can find something relatable
7:15
and I can hang out with this, this crowd or this crowd or this
7:18
crowd in post D-Day and into recovery.
7:23
I look back at that as that wasn't a positive.
7:26
That was actually not a good thing.
7:27
You know, you can be respectful in all those areas, but when you
7:31
feel like you can constantly conform no matter who you're
7:34
around, and you can take the shape of the people around you,
7:39
there's no direction then. And part of it is needing to
7:41
feel accepted all the time. Right.
7:44
What were the good and bad parts about being a validation junkie?
7:47
What felt good? What felt bad?
7:50
The good parts were feeling acceptable for sure.
7:55
It's lonely to hold your values in areas where it could cast you
8:02
in a perceived negative light because you're not conforming to
8:08
maybe what a group of friends want you to do or how they want
8:11
you to act or something they want you to go do.
8:14
It's lonely because if you're going to hold on your values and
8:17
you're not going to conform to just getting that approval on
8:20
that acceptance that comes from the validation that it's, it can
8:25
be lonely, right? Because other people may not
8:28
agree with you holding your values.
8:30
So I would say in that case, that's a, it's a positive long
8:35
term, but maybe in the throes of it, it feels really lonely and
8:39
heavy. To know why?
8:41
How come? Why does it feel so lonely and
8:43
heavy? Because in that moment you don't
8:47
have the approval of people. Maybe that you want the approval
8:51
or maybe because you you're not. No, it's because you lack
8:56
confidence in yourself, right? You lack a feeling of who I am
9:00
without the approval of others. Who am I?
9:03
Where and where does that get anchored right?
9:06
So OK. So let's think about it like a
9:09
drug, y'all, Let's think about it for a second.
9:12
Junkie is in junkie free drugs, whatever you call it, how good
9:17
it feels to take a hit, right like.
9:20
Addicted. Yeah, how good does it take?
9:22
I'll I'll go first, Ryan, and feel free to follow me if you
9:25
want. But man, I'm telling you, you
9:28
get A and today, like right for somebody.
9:30
I have to check myself even today, like hey, I like your
9:33
podcast or hey, thanks for being somebody's that helped me in my
9:38
life get where I'm trying to go. But you made a difference.
9:40
Let's think about back in the day, I used to be in the cell.
9:43
I used to be in cells and leadership and I'd get some
9:46
award. So National explained award man,
9:49
I just felt like it was like I'm enough, like I'm I have value
9:54
like that is I felt good, right? And it was a high that I didn't
9:59
mind chasing. I was like, it's worth the
10:01
effort because I want that again, like that.
10:04
That means I'm going to be OK. If I can win something that
10:08
nobody else has, get something that nobody else has, that means
10:12
a lot. That means that's that felt like
10:14
I was going to be able to make it like life was going to be OK
10:16
to the get validation meant I'm going to make it through this
10:19
Life OK. I'm going to be all right.
10:21
In fact, knowledge would be all right.
10:22
I'm I matter. I'm enough.
10:24
So what about you, Ryan? Yeah, along those same lines,
10:29
it's man validation from your parents, right?
10:35
Validation from friends, validation for work, sports, all
10:40
those things are they feel so good in the moment.
10:45
But as we know, the moment doesn't last.
10:49
You know, we need it again or you want it to be more intense.
10:52
The next time where you think I can do, it's going to feel even
10:56
better because I'm going to do more.
10:58
And then you're chasing that constant, that constant pursuit
11:02
of validation because we rely on that to feel normal and to feel
11:08
yourself worth. Normal, right?
11:12
Normal. Yeah, that's cool.
11:13
I love that you talked about the escalating piece of the
11:15
insatiable part of being a validation junkie.
11:18
I want it to be stronger next time.
11:20
I want it to be better next time and it be better next time.
11:24
And let's tie into this, y'all, what type of validation is most
11:30
important to me? And for me, it was for me, it
11:34
was trying to get it from somebody who really easily
11:37
didn't give it, trying to find the places that existed that
11:41
were validation that was hard to get it from.
11:44
So I would find it in the crevices of life that weren't
11:48
good, like the opposite sex. The places where the normal
11:53
phrase now didn't carry as much. Now I needed to find it from
11:56
places that were the opposite sex relationships through
11:59
flirting, seeking out after maybe somebody who would tell me
12:03
that I'd I'm enough and good enough in a really
12:05
inappropriate, unhelpful way. And not knowing how destructive
12:09
that was. Who was just feeding that beast,
12:11
feeding that animal that was like, oh, when I remember
12:15
getting in places that people weren't really responsible to
12:18
give it to me with the opposite sex.
12:21
Through flirting, through engaging in relationships that
12:25
aren't appropriate. They're outside my values.
12:27
Yeah. Any thoughts on this Ryan?
12:30
That was when the when it really started to get unhealthy for me
12:34
was when I started to tie myself worth amongst my peers in high
12:41
school by how successful I was with women, right?
12:47
With girls, if girls wanted me and if I could or I know this is
12:52
definitely insensitive and it was, but it's if I can say I
12:56
made out with the girl this weekend or I did acts with the
12:58
girl this weekend and I could talk about that with my buddies
13:02
and boast about it. It was something I had that I
13:08
felt like maybe they didn't have because there were parts of me
13:11
in high school and in those formative years, I wasn't the
13:15
best athlete. I wasn't the strongest guy.
13:18
And I was in there. I was in the is in the median
13:21
range, right? But I wasn't a high performer by
13:23
any means. And I felt like maybe in that
13:26
side of things, I developed this unhealthy level of being, this
13:31
really feels good to maybe do something that nobody else is
13:35
getting or nobody else's to me. And I started to tie myself
13:39
worth to the approval and the conquest for women.
13:46
And I think I thought that would stop when I got married, but it
13:51
doesn't go away because I didn't have, I didn't have myself worth
13:56
tied to anything other than unhealthy feedback from the
14:00
opposite sex or not unhealthy, but just those those
14:03
affirmations that were just empty and temporary.
14:07
So yeah. And that's, I think that's
14:10
something I see happens with a lot of younger kids or people
14:13
entering into my marriages. I think they think that's just
14:16
all the unhealthy habits of the adolescence just go away with
14:19
marriage and they don't. Doesn't change it.
14:22
Yeah. And let's just notice for the
14:25
people around us, specifically our partners, how unfair it is
14:29
that this world we built for ourselves, I built for myself of
14:33
needing that affirmation, which means I have space for you.
14:36
I have the I have space for you if you're there to give me good
14:39
feedback, to tell them I'm enough because that's what I'm
14:41
after. That means if you have something
14:43
else for me, some type of feedback means I probably won't
14:48
have space for you because I haven't built a life around.
14:50
That. Conflict avoidance.
14:52
You're nodding a lot. What's going on here?
14:54
I just, I'm like, totally. That's exactly how it was.
14:57
I thought my marriage was going to be just constantly positive.
15:01
And man, what are just the level of just emotional maturity to go
15:05
into a marriage thinking that as soon as we tie the knot, yeah,
15:08
we might have difficulties, but it's not going to be anything
15:12
really challenging. Yeah.
15:15
It's just, it's just so unfortunate to your poem.
15:18
It just feels so terrible that I had that all built up before I
15:23
got married. And Yep.
15:25
And size 2012 there's it's still really heavy.
15:31
Yeah, Couple things that I wanted to touch on here.
15:34
It's not just that it's unfair to a partner, but what we're
15:36
supposed to bring to a relationship, which means it's
15:39
the undone work if they were externally trying to get the OR
15:43
enjoying validation versus needing validation.
15:46
I understand the difference between external identity versus
15:48
internal identity. So validation is like
15:51
outsourcing your worth saying, OK, my worth comes from what
15:56
other people say about me, how other people feel about me.
15:59
It's performance driven. It's I got to perform in order
16:02
to get love. And maybe you could just go back
16:03
to the family of origin. Did your worth, did your did you
16:08
have to go to other people to go?
16:09
Who am I? Am I told who I am?
16:11
Or was there an invitation to explore who you were?
16:15
Was an exploration process or did you just need to become
16:17
another version of what other people had, who other people
16:19
were? So if you had a chance to kind
16:23
of do that exploration of who am I, What's my identity, that my
16:27
worth doesn't come from my behavior.
16:29
You're probably not here listen to this podcast because you
16:33
struggle with compulsive behavior from secrecy and hiding
16:37
because it was more about connection than it was
16:39
performance. So I just want to say some signs
16:43
that if you're living in for validation is there's going to
16:46
be a lot of people pleasing going on.
16:47
There's going to be, I'm really worried about other people think
16:50
there's going to be some conflict avoidance.
16:52
I don't want to say anything that's going to upset somebody.
16:55
And I can't lean into some area where somebody sees something
16:58
differently than I do. And I can hang with that, not
17:01
argue with that and I try to get a point, but understand it and
17:04
and see through that, that in type of intimacy.
17:07
Maybe some other signs for validations.
17:09
You're over explaining. You're like, I need somebody
17:13
else to understand something a certain way.
17:16
They need to see it. There's some fear of
17:18
disappointing other people. It's like, I'm so afraid that
17:21
I'll disappoint somebody at whatever level, something that's
17:24
visible or something that's not. And then here's another side to
17:28
look for. If you're living from validation
17:30
changing depending on who's in the room.
17:33
I kind of mentioned that earlier in this podcast, but I can scan
17:36
the room, I can see who's there and I'm going to depend the room
17:40
depends on how I should show up and behave.
17:42
And by the way, when those rooms mix, when family mixes with
17:46
professional, but you're like, you're in there and you're like,
17:49
Oh my goodness. I feel like I'm pulled into
17:51
suit. I feel like I need to be.
17:52
I feel like I'm already splitting apart.
17:54
I hate this place because I have these two rims that are mixing
17:56
and now I don't know how to show up.
17:58
So any thoughts on any of that, Ryan?
18:00
Yes, disappointing others is a is a big thing I still struggle
18:05
with and I think that definitely goes back to family origin, you
18:08
know, of wanting my parents approval so badly that if I ever
18:14
disappointed them, I felt man, so much change, so ashamed
18:18
around that so much. I'm just I've failed.
18:22
I'm never going to be on all that negative self talk happens.
18:25
So to this day, I still have some unhealthy emotional cues
18:32
from disappointing somebody and I have to really be aware of
18:35
that. And that's important with
18:37
recovery, right? Because even in recovery, going
18:40
to disappoint your spouse and it's important to be able to
18:43
still be still have that integrity even in light of
18:47
disappointing thing with places maybe where we still need to
18:51
work and that's hard. We're going to take a quick
18:55
break for a moment. I want to let you know of some
18:57
things that we have coming up with Choose Recovery Services.
19:01
Hey, so let's talk about our reclaimed intensive.
19:03
Coming up, I know we have some. Buzz around it and I'm hoping.
19:05
We get to see you there, but let me tell you what it's about.
19:08
Have you ever? Felt like a part of you
19:10
genuinely wants recovery while another part of you keep
19:13
sabotaging it. Where one part wants like
19:15
connection to another part wants escape.
19:18
Where one part wants honesty and another part wants to hide.
19:21
And let me give you one more. Where one part wants to be
19:25
present with your kids, your partner, and your life, but
19:28
another part you wants to numb out, want to check out, wants to
19:31
disappear altogether. Many men spend years fighting
19:36
this internal battle without even understanding what's
19:38
actually happening beneath the surface.
19:41
The truth is, you're not broken. You're not crazy.
19:44
You're not fighting against yourself by accident, you're
19:47
carrying a system of parts that were developed for a reason.
19:50
That's why we create the reclaimed intensive.
19:53
So reclaim is a four day men's intensive build around internal
19:56
family systems and parts work in other various tools of recovery
20:00
so. Together we want to.
20:01
Identify these different parts of you and we want to understand
20:05
the wounds and what they're protecting and how to be LED
20:09
through your internal system so you can find some clarity and
20:12
confidence and self energy that you haven't had before.
20:15
Because this isn't about trying harder.
20:17
It's about understanding what's happening inside of you.
20:19
So if you're struggling and you want to move beyond managing
20:24
some of the systems and start addressing it or please join us
20:28
from August 18th to the 21st in Spanish Fork, UT.
20:31
So go ahead and visit chooserecoveryservices.com.
20:34
Go to the intensive section and with the reclaimed incentives
20:38
and even if you want to schedule a consultation, we can talk
20:41
about it more. Let's get back to our episode.
20:48
Can you actually stop and think about if you have any examples
20:51
of fear of disappointing somebody when you did but you
20:53
still acting from a place of integrity or maybe the lacquer
20:56
you had to come back and fix it or repair it?
20:59
I still have trouble. We did the whole podcast on
21:02
humility, right? And I truly believe that is a
21:05
major cornerstone of recovery. Good.
21:07
I still have issues with pride. I still do.
21:10
There was part of how I protected myself was to deflect
21:14
and be defensive and all those things.
21:15
That goes back again to early childhood days when so in
21:20
moments when I show up pridefully about something or
21:24
then I get that feedback from staff, she was telling me she
21:27
disappointed in how I showed up or something just like that.
21:31
Sucks. I hate that.
21:32
Or if or maybe I forgot to do something around the house,
21:36
right, she asked me to do this and this and we just didn't
21:39
prioritize it. So then I forgot about it and
21:42
then I really let her down. And that brings up those
21:45
feelings of pride. And I want to, sometimes I want
21:48
to just defend myself, right, or not take accountability.
21:51
And that's, those are all areas where disappointing, that
21:54
disappointing feeling triggers a lot of other things for me like
22:00
defense mechanisms. So I have to be aware of that.
22:03
And it's the best thing Steph said to me one point, because we
22:07
were talking about this, we've been able to call it out.
22:10
I'm really saying I just really hate disappointing you.
22:12
And she goes, do you not think that I disappoint you every day
22:16
with the way I over overshoot my mouth or I say something in
22:20
color somewhere? Because Steph's very blunt,
22:24
right? She doesn't care who she's
22:25
around. She's she'll speak her mind.
22:28
And I'm like, you're right. Yeah, you do disappoint me
22:31
sometimes. That's OK, I still love you.
22:34
Why do I have to feel like just because I disappointed you, you
22:36
don't love me? That's what comes up for me.
22:38
It's that deep where I'm like, man, she must.
22:41
Not as deep as the. But it was a great, such a
22:45
simple thing for her to give me that perspective on that really
22:49
was like, you know what, yeah, it's OK to disappoint somebody.
22:53
It's OK to have somebody disappointed in you.
22:54
It doesn't mean that I'm less than.
22:58
It doesn't mean that I no longer have self worth as her husband,
23:02
right on a dad, right? Still have self worth.
23:05
No one was Aries. I still have value, even though
23:08
I disappointed in a moment, but trying to avoid that in an early
23:12
age. I hated that it was so terrible
23:15
to have somebody feel this man. So you did everything.
23:18
I did everything I could to avoid that.
23:21
And I think what happens is, to your point with the wet noodle,
23:24
then you just start conforming and you're no longer a bridge a
23:29
a sturdy bridge. You're just conforming to
23:31
appease everybody to try to and avoid the feeling of discipline.
23:36
So yeah. Look, think, if you think about
23:38
it, if your goal is never to disappoint anybody, you'll
23:41
inevitably like disappoint yourself because if your goal is
23:45
more I'm going to live by my values, there will be times when
23:48
you're going to disappoint others.
23:49
And that's not selfishness, that's reality.
23:52
So validation says things like I need everyone else to be OK with
23:56
me, but integrity says I can care about your feelings without
24:00
becoming responsible for them. And I think it's just that
24:03
conflict doesn't feel safe. It just feels so scary, like
24:06
something's wrong if there's conflict.
24:09
And can I want to relate to you, Ryan, in in this aspect of this
24:14
piece of being fearful of disappointing others?
24:17
I want to tell you where I learned it from because I
24:20
carried this generational pattern.
24:22
I did. I was I grabbed the luggage from
24:24
my parents, the baggage and I'm just like, I'll take it.
24:27
I'll take the way that we believe in what we see in other
24:29
people. Me and my mom and dad are
24:31
different, but we have that in common, which is I saw my mom
24:35
and dad have deep fear around disappointing other people's
24:38
really do a lot to make sure their parents stayed happy with
24:41
them. But there was a fear of
24:42
disappointing their God, a fear of disappointing their parents
24:45
and a fear of disappointing other people.
24:47
But mostly of God and parents. And they're lovely people.
24:52
And I've, I mean, man, watching them grow because of it.
24:55
Frankly, even just watching my own recovery, it's been amazing
24:59
watching them. But yeah, I carried that baton.
25:02
I carried that fear of needing to show up a certain way.
25:05
So I just observed them and how they would interact with their
25:09
parents and their parents needing to see them in a certain
25:12
light. And I just carried that on.
25:14
And it's it took a a different role in my life.
25:17
Excuse me? I tried to keep people OK with
25:20
me. I did it in different ways than
25:21
they did, more destructive ways than they did, it looks like.
25:24
But it still existed. I still carry that.
25:27
Couple other things. Where does it come from?
25:29
I wanted to make sure we touch on this childhood, how you adapt
25:32
as a child. That's where this comes from.
25:35
Performance for love, OK? In order for me to be loved.
25:38
And Ryan, you actually brought that up.
25:41
If I perform that, I'll be loved.
25:43
Keeping the peace. That might be something where it
25:45
comes from somewhat somehow you identify that my job is to keep
25:48
peace. My job is to make sure this
25:50
whole everything doesn't get the boat doesn't get rocked too
25:54
much, it doesn't tip over. And that means I got to
25:56
validate. I got to make sure that people
25:59
like me and that's important and shame and fear.
26:02
Anything coming up for you with that, Ryan?
26:03
Any of that? The peace, the part of being a
26:05
peacemaker. That was the story of my
26:08
relationship between my my work life where my dad was actually
26:14
my boss, right? So now I'm working for my dad
26:16
and my dad is my boss and I also have a wife.
26:22
And because I was so afraid of disappointing both of them,
26:29
right? I never prioritized who is the
26:33
one that really matters here. So I never took a side.
26:36
I never stood up for what I really should have and it
26:41
created problems in our marriage for a long time.
26:44
And it's unfair to both people, it really is.
26:47
It was unfair to Steph, it was unfair to my dad because I never
26:52
was really fully honest with either one, mainly my dad.
26:55
I honestly, I was so terrified of not having his approval that
27:02
I wouldn't be honest with him and I would just tell Steph to
27:05
be quiet. Don't bring that up.
27:06
It's only going to cause problems.
27:08
And all I did was like it was an unhonest, an honest and
27:12
unauthentic way to just live life.
27:18
Constantly feeling like I had to just try to appease both sides.
27:22
And I really regret living like that was a terrible way.
27:29
What did it cost you? I don't here's the problem is I
27:35
finally, after 40 years, I finally had this conversation
27:41
with my dad and I was like, hey, I'm really sorry.
27:44
But there were things that I really felt about our
27:47
relationship that I never shared with you.
27:49
How how unfair that I didn't ever give you the chance to
27:54
address that. I just built up a big bagger as
27:56
that mean towards you. And I'm really sorry for that.
27:59
That's really unfortunate that it has to suck and I really feel
28:03
bad that it was that way. But I have to prioritize my life
28:08
differently now. And I have to make sure that my
28:10
wife feels like she is my priority.
28:14
And and I should have done that a long time ago.
28:17
And maybe it would have resulted in me not working with him
28:20
because we could have just figured it out then instead of
28:22
going so long where he all of a sudden feels blindsided by this
28:27
truth that I told him about, right?
28:31
That's just that's it's not fair for him.
28:34
Yeah, thanks for calling. Not fair to him, not fair to
28:36
you. No.
28:38
And he won. And it was again, a lack of
28:40
living in that place of authenticity because I was so
28:44
afraid of not having his approval.
28:46
I needed his validation more than I needed more than I needed
28:52
staff's validation. You know what I mean?
28:54
more than I needed hurt. I might just it's just not good.
28:57
So what I would say to to some of these people listening to
29:00
this podcast is where are you? Where are your priorities and
29:03
how are you letting those things shape your marriage, your
29:07
relationship? Who are you spouse, right or
29:11
above those your priorities For me, what's God, my wife, the
29:16
kids, career, family, right? Those are the list of
29:20
priorities. And I think that having that set
29:24
up that way helps you navigate places where validation can be
29:29
can become unhealthy and you can have your priorities set out.
29:34
Thank you. So let's build on.
29:38
I had some stuff written down on the cost of being a validation
29:41
junkie. And just bear with me on this
29:44
one y'all. Because if you're the betrayed
29:46
partner. It's feels like we're I.
29:48
Don't know. I want to have.
29:49
Make sure there's a level of ownership that is involved to
29:51
your level of accountability, But the cost is I'm going to
29:54
lose my voice. I'm going to lose or never get a
29:56
chance to understand my own identity.
29:59
Ton of anxiety. I'm going to resent the world
30:01
for sure. And a lot of times you can feel
30:04
that as a betrayed partner. I think my partner resent me.
30:06
And of course there's often like a no, I don't right, But it's
30:10
you can't lose your voice. You lose your identity and not
30:12
resent because it's a lot. It's powerlessness and
30:14
resentments about being feeling powerless.
30:17
So I stand to reset those around me, even though they're not
30:19
doing anything wrong because they're not giving a chance to
30:22
understand and show up in in intimacy and connection.
30:25
I'm not giving them that chance of making decisions for them.
30:28
The cost is relationships become performance instead of
30:32
connection. So it's about me performing, not
30:33
connecting. So if you're sitting here and
30:36
listening to this podcast going like, OK, great, OK, yeah, I'm
30:40
buying it or whatever, what do I do about it?
30:42
So we're talking about building integrity.
30:44
And this is maybe there needs to be another podcast on this
30:47
piece, But first thing we do is we clarify our values.
30:50
And I hated the idea of values based exercises to begin with
30:53
because I'm like, I don't know who I am, but that's kind of the
30:56
point. I clarify my values, what is
30:58
actually matters to me and actually note notice what
31:02
matters to me through what type of acting out I did.
31:05
The thing I couldn't get was as I had affairs, I cheated.
31:08
So what do I value? And it wasn't I would have got
31:10
caught on. Do I value other women?
31:13
Do I value porn? No, what I value is is feeling
31:16
like I matter. What I value is is feeling like
31:19
what I values is mattering, feeling like I'm enough, like I,
31:23
I mean something in the world. So it was just done a really
31:26
maladaptive, unhealthy ways. So if you're building integrity,
31:29
you're going to have to learn how to disappoint people.
31:31
You have to learn how to, and I'll give it maybe a different
31:34
phrase, I'm going to have to learn how to stay present with
31:37
other people's emotions on how I respond to life and how it
31:40
impacts them. I'm going to need to learn
31:42
boundaries. What does boundaries look like
31:44
for myself? What do my own boundaries look
31:46
like? And this isn't like Ellen, my
31:48
partner. This isn't boundaries against my
31:50
partner. It's not getting even with the
31:52
boundaries that she has. It's where do I end and somebody
31:56
else begin? And then also just, I'm probably
32:00
going to have to build integrity.
32:01
I'm not to ask myself, am I acting from fear or reacting
32:05
from values? So anyway, Ryan, any closing
32:08
thoughts or any things that you feel like you really want to
32:10
share up in this onset before we start to end?
32:14
Yeah, if we have, I want to point out a few different types
32:19
of validation that I, that I'm that come up in the recovery
32:22
world, right? And I think certainly are
32:24
applicable in everyday life from personal life to career to
32:28
family to all this stuff. But emotional validation versus
32:34
identity validation, right? I think it's very important to
32:39
be able to validate emotions that your partner or a Co worker
32:45
or somebody is feeling without feeling like you necessarily
32:48
have to accept the point they're making.
32:52
But to say, yeah, I see how X could be making you feel Y for
32:57
sure. Specifically maybe to some past
32:59
behavior that I used to have or do, and maybe it's triggering
33:06
that my partner or that Steph saw something I still do that
33:10
maybe reminds her of that. And I say, yeah, I can totally
33:14
see how that would maybe scare you, that you.
33:17
So you witnessed this and it reminded you of that, right?
33:21
She's not trying to hurt me in those moments.
33:23
She's just expressing pain, right?
33:26
So to be able to validate her emotionally that I'm in tune
33:29
enough that I can see how me doing something could be painful
33:34
for her, that's a great level of emotional validation, right?
33:39
You agree with that, Luke, Is that how do you resonate that
33:42
with parts of what you do? Emotional validation and then
33:46
identity validation is what we've been talking about.
33:48
I think where it's all about my identity is tied with people's
33:52
approval of me. So I think that those are
33:55
definitely 2 areas to be just aware of because validation can
34:01
come off as being very a negative thing, right?
34:06
But in some it's actually a positive.
34:09
It's good. It's only bad when it becomes
34:11
part of our identity. It's good to be able to do it
34:14
for someone else's emotions. Emotional validation being help
34:17
me understand what I'm experiencing and then identity
34:20
valuation is tell me who I am. Is that the difference between
34:23
the two? I would say so or just validate
34:27
that I'm feeling certain emotions and that you are aware
34:30
that This is why I'm feeling these emotions.
34:33
And you can be able to do that. I think shows a level of
34:38
emotional maturity, especially if you're the the partner that
34:42
betrayed to the betrayed partner, because you get it.
34:46
That happens a lot, right? And the betrayed guys that are
34:49
the betrayed people know what I'm referring to.
34:51
You get a lot of those moments where strong emotions come
34:57
often, especially early on, right?
34:59
And to be able to validate those emotions, I think is important
35:03
part of learning empathy. OK, So Ryan, I'm really digging
35:08
on what you're saying right now because I think what's what
35:10
certain words, other things can get lost in translation.
35:13
So of course we're going to emotionally validate our
35:15
partners and we have to emotionally validate ourselves.
35:18
But it's not tying in our identity to that, right?
35:20
It's not someone else. It's not somebody else telling
35:24
us to determining our worths and our value, our identity.
35:27
It's really acknowledging and understanding what we're
35:30
experiencing versus who we are. I love that.
35:35
It's great. Yeah, and the last piece would
35:39
be the absolute best kind of validation, which is having your
35:44
parking validated. That's great.
35:49
Sorry, that's a terrible dad joke.
35:51
I'm sorry, I couldn't. No, I appreciate it.
35:54
You can edit that one out if you.
35:56
We're not going to edit that out.
35:58
Well, hey, it's all forms of validation that we're talking
36:00
about today, healthy and unhealthy and just logistical.
36:03
That's what it is. Nothing better than the bargain
36:06
rotated. I don't think that one ever has
36:08
a negative. That was add.
36:11
Hey, I was already excited. I was like, what's this other
36:14
part of validation that I'm missing?
36:16
So thanks for pulling that in and dad jokes are always welcome
36:20
to your the fact that it's easier the better.
36:22
Well, man. I'm going to, Steph's going to
36:24
punch me in the arm for that one.
36:26
See, well, we'll conclude a podcast of that you.
36:29
Thank you, Ryan, I appreciate you so much for coming here.
36:31
I think that I value the way you walked your recovery.
36:34
You and your sweet wife have walked your recovery.
36:36
You guys. Thanks for allowing us to talk
36:39
some validation and how it applied to you and your journey.
36:41
That validation is a gift you all.
36:43
It's not a necessity. Recovery is going to be about
36:45
taking your identity back or maybe forming it if you don't
36:48
know who you are. So it's not about it's not about
36:51
what other people think, it's about you knowing who you are
36:56
before anyone else has the opinion, but you can engage in
36:59
that experience. So you can engage in how you
37:03
show up in the world and how it impacts others and be sure of
37:06
yourself. So if you're beginning of the
37:08
journey, in the middle of the journey, wherever you're at the
37:11
journey, we're just here to support you in that.
37:13
So anyway, thank you, Ryan, and we will talk to you all soon.
37:17
Take care. Thanks, Luke.
37:21
If part of you keeps wondering, should I come to this courage to
37:24
thrive intensive, I want you to listen to that question with
37:28
compassion. Because many women minimize
37:31
their pain, they tell themselves other people have it worse.
37:34
Or I should be over this by now. Or maybe I just need him to get
37:38
better and then I'll be OK. But the trail trauma impacts
37:41
your mind, your body, your nervous system, your sense of
37:45
safety, your identity, and your ability to trust yourself.
37:49
And healing was never meant to happen alone.
37:52
Courage to Thrive is a space where you can finally exhale.
37:55
A space where you don't have to explain why it hurts so deeply.
37:59
A space where women around you simply get it.
38:04
You'll experience powerful workshops, experiential healing
38:07
activities, nervous system support, connection, education,
38:11
and practical tools that you can take home with you.
38:14
Most women leave saying I finally don't feel crazy
38:17
anymore, and many also leave realizing that I matter too.
38:23
So if something inside you feels strong to this experience, honor
38:27
that that quiet voice inside you may already know what you need.
38:32
I hope you'll join us August 25th through 28th in Spanish
38:35
Fork, UT. Thank you for joining me for
38:43
this episode of Beyond the Facade.
38:45
If today's conversation resonates with you, I encourage
38:48
you to explore the resources available through Choose
38:50
Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute.
38:53
Beyond the Thought is presented through a collaboration between
38:56
these two organizations, both of which are committed to helping
38:59
men and families find lasting healing, growth, and recovery
39:03
through coaching, therapy groups, intensives, and
39:07
immersive recovery experiences. Our mission is to help people
39:10
move beyond survival and into lives marked by authenticity,
39:14
connection, and integrity. You'll find links to both
39:18
organizations, along with any resources mentioned in today's
39:21
episode in the show notes. Until next time, keep pursuing
39:24
authenticity, keep doing the work, and keep moving beyond the
39:27
facade.