Latest / Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast / Session 2- Philippians- Dan Viner & Jack Johnson- Autumn Bible School 25

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Session 2- Philippians- Dan Viner & Jack Johnson- Autumn Bible School 25 · Woodlands Church Academy's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_12: But before we kick off, I wonder if anyone would like to read the passage for us from today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_12: So one of our values at Bible School is the public reading scripture.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_12: You know, this was a letter that was read out loud to the church that they were in and it was delivered orally.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_12: And that's what we'd like to do.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_12: Would anyone like to read that um that little section?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_12: We can we can break it down.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, go ahead.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_12: Um was there a hand at the back as well, or was that just everyone's reached?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_12: Fantastic.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_12: Okay, I've got a little bit um you yourself at the front, one, two, three.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_12: Um what are we doing?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_12: So we're doing 12.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_12: Um today we're doing excuse me, uh 12 to 30, so just the the second half of of chapter one.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_12: So on the front, if you wouldn't mind reading 12 uh down to 18, uh, and in the middle, if you do 19 to 26, and then at the back, if you could do 27 to the end of the chapter.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_12: Is that right?
• 0:59
  unknown: Thank you.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_12: Brilliant.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_12: When you're ready.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that what has happened to me has actually served to advance the gospel.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and everyone else that I am in chains for Christ.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defenders of the gospel.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up hope for me when I am the chains.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: But what does it matter?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: The important thing is that in every way whether from false motion or true, Christ is preached.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: And because of this, I rejoice.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I will continue to preach.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_16: For I know that as you pray for me, and the Spirit of Jesus helps me, this will lead to my deliverance.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_16: For I fully accept and hope that I will never be ashamed, but that I will continue to behold for Christ as I have been in the past.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_16: And I trust that my life will bring honour to Christ, whether I live or die.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_16: For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_16: But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_16: So I simply don't know which is better.
• 2:26
  unknown: I'm torn between two desires.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_16: I want to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_16: But for your sake, it is better that I continue to live.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_16: Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_16: And when I come to you again, you will have even more reason to take pride in Christ Jesus because of what he is doing through me.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Only let your men are flight away of the gospel of Christ, so that when I come to see you out, I may hear of you, that you are standing firm in my spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel, and not frightened in anything by your openness.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is a clear sign to them of their destruction, but of your salvation and that from God.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him, but also suffer for his sake.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Engaged in the same conflict that you saw ahead, and now here that has yeah.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_12: Awesome.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_12: Right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_12: So um a quick question as we start.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_12: What strikes you, what jumps out at you from this passage?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_12: Is there anything, you know, there's quite a lot there, is anything, yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_10: You know, struggling before Christ is going to privilege.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_10: Um, yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_12: Struggle is a privilege when it's with Christ, for Christ.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_12: Anything else that kind of jumps out at us?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_13: Instead of saying in life, there's you I gain in life through living in Christ, but I gain in death because I died for Christ as well.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_13: There's no you nothing but gain.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, you can't lose.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, so true.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_12: Anything else?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_12: That's all good.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_12: I mean, I made a a little list actually when I was um first reading through this.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_12: There is a lot in this chunk.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_12: There's so much that we could we could pull out.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_12: I mean, here's just a few, you know, post-death, pre-resurrection, existence, hope in the face of suffering, answered prayers, but not how expect, citizenship, love abounding in knowledge and depth of insight, the value of orthopraxy, Jesus sees it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_12: Like, there is so much in this little section here.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_12: There is, you know, you could do a whole sermon series just on this, you know, like 20 verses or so.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_12: You'd write a book, people have.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_12: But I think what what we want to do is to just look at a few things that will hopefully just add some value for us as we read.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_12: This isn't an exhaustive everything in this section.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_12: This is you know, some things that we can look at, you know, we can apply a little toolkit to, and then hopefully give you some of the tools to when you read through Philippians again to gain some extra insight, some extra depth from it.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_12: So as we read through, you know, what strikes us, well, we've mentioned a few things, you know, the struggle, there's sort of almost like a win-win scenario for the believer.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_12: You know, how does that work?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_12: Here's what struck me when I when I first read this was I think particularly positivity.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_12: You know, when I you know when I was talking last week, I said, you know, joy is mentioned in this book over and over and over again, you know, rejoice, I continue to rejoice, I eagerly expect, you know, I hope.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_12: You know, these are the words Paul's using in what is a not altogether positive situation.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_12: You know, like I mentioned last week, he's in a pretty tough place, but you really have to read between the lines to see that because he's constantly just saying, Yeah, I'm great, I'm so happy.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_12: Isn't it all wonderful?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_12: I can't lose.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_12: And that's that's quite interesting.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_12: And as we read through, um, you know, we we can only maybe realize that he's at death's door through a closer reading.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_12: You know, people in good health aren't often debating whether it would be better for them to die or to live.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_12: I I don't tend to feel that way when I've got a bad cold.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_12: Do you know what I mean?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_12: He's clearly at the end of himself physically, you know, whether that's the end of his life, whether he's he's suffering, you know, physically, you know, in his in that sort of middle period.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_12: We don't exactly know when this was written, but clearly he's not in a good way.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_12: But he is he's debating whether living or dying is the best course of action.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_12: That's that's pretty heavy, but that you know, verse 21 to 26 is exactly what that is.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_12: He's not negative, he's not depressed, he's not morbid about it, he's just he's weighing out the pros and cons.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_12: He sees it literally as a win-win, like we said before.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_12: Where does that perspective come from?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_12: The true focus of the passage is is revealed when we we take a bit of a wider view.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_12: This is you know something we often you know try and do, like I mentioned.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_12: Just look at the repeated words.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_12: You know, this is the passage there.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_12: You know, you don't have to be able to read it, just look at the spread.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_12: This is just Christ picked out in pink.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_12: It's virtually every sentence.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_12: Christ is the focus.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_12: It's it's you know, it's all throughout this passage.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_12: It's 11 times in these brief paragraphs.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_12: Paul's thoughts are centered on Christ right at this moment where he's physically suffering, where he's he's emotionally, you know, and you know, spiritually kind of at the end.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_12: And contrast that with how many times he mentions his own situation.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_12: You know, he is literally in chains right now, but he only mentions that twice, briefly, just in one in one sentence.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_12: Instead, his focus is on Jesus, his focus is on Jesus throughout.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_12: And actually, when he does mention his chains, he only says, Oh no, that's really good because Jesus benefits from it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_12: He's not saying, Oh, and it sucks that I'm chained up.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_12: But you know, Jesus is great.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_12: He's saying, No, no, no, guys, I'm in chains and Jesus is winning because of it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_12: Like, the perspective here is is wild, and I I struggle to inhabit that because, well, I've never been chained up, but also when I'm in a tough situation, I don't know, like I've got a two-year-old and he was a nightmare today, and it was, you know, taxing, giving him dinner, and putting him to bed.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_12: I don't think about how that glorifies God when I'm in the moment, because in that small example, I'm just stressed out and frustrated, and I just would like the thing to be over so I can do something else.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_12: He's in the middle of a life or death situation, and all he's thinking about is Jesus.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_12: When we're talking about the issues that we face to one another, even to ourselves, how often are we stressing Jesus?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_12: How often are we, you know, peppering everything that we're reflecting on with Jesus?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_12: Are we fatalistic or are we trusting in God's planning and provision, just like Paul is doing here?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_12: So I've got a question here, um, based on you know this passage.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_12: Paul says he's in chains for Christ.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_12: Now we don't have to get too kind of too Calvinist about it, but in in your groups, you know, twos and threes, do you think God meant for this to happen?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_12: Do you think that God put Paul in chains?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_12: Now we've solved it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_12: Um what does everyone think?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_12: Any thoughts?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_12: It's not on this side of the room.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_12: We had some readers from over here.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_12: Over here.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_12: This sort of third.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_12: What are you guys talking about?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_12: Any thoughts?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_12: What are we chat about?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_12: Just football?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_14: Probably not, but maybe.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_12: Probably not, but maybe.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_12: So God meant for Paul to be in prison.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_12: Probably not, but maybe.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_12: But he could.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't think that okay.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think he did.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think God put put Paul in chains personally.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think he was put in chains because of what he was saying, what he was preaching.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe the maybe the Jews or the Romans of that time they didn't they were against what he was saying, yeah.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Because they were against Jesus when he was preaching and they crucified him.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: And because Paul was continuing after Jesus, they took offence to it and decided to imprison him.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_12: So it's a human-level cause that then God is working, working above and sort of through.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: What did it say in I think somewhere in an axe, isn't it?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Where it says every day uh we're like sheep for the slaughter.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_12: No, um, yeah, that it's uh that's an old testament prophecy.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_12: You know, every day we're loaded by lambs for the slaughter.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think it says somewhere in an axe as well, to that.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, I think it's a quote.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, but yeah, so God's working above a human, a human cause.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_12: What about you guys in the middle?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_12: What were you saying?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_13: We debated it, we chatted it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_13: It was um we sort of like um sort of said actually that like it was it was God's will for Paul to be obedient to him, for Paul to go out and spread the good news of the gospel, and Paul wanted to do that despite of the consequences he knew would be in place, and in fact, he finds found joy finds joy in that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_13: So I guess it depends which way you look at it.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_13: So you could argue in that case, yes, it was God's will for Paul to be in prison because he knew that'd be a consequence, because Paul knew that'd be a consequence of obedience, and there'd actually be joy in that, but it was actually God's will for him to go out and talk about it, that was just the consequence.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_13: I think if I do something, there's not currently talking to the ends of that, if I do something wrong, um and that's against God's will, that that's my will because God gives him the free will and the power to do that, um, in the same place that the Romans had the will to imprison him other than that was God's will um to have him imprisoned.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_12: It's like a secondary thing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_12: You know, God says, you know, I want you to spread the gospel, sure, and as a result of that, he's he's been imprisoned, but God can work through that.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_12: Interesting.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_12: Any any other thoughts on that?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_05: God knew what uh Paul was like when he was.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, he knew how he could spread the word.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, and he could use him in any circumstance, you know, in spite of his imprisonment.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_12: What about what about you guys?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_12: Because this sort of half the room, any thoughts?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_10: What has been said already, to be honest.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_10: Um I was just mentioning the quote, like Jesus said, just remember before um when they hated you, they hated me first.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_10: So Jesus is obedient to the Father's will.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_10: Um and they he died for it.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_10: I feel like you know, if you're gonna be spreading the gospel, people are gonna be after you, aren't they?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, that's true.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_10: And like what was said before, God is able to use you no matter what condition you're in, if He if He wants, and you know, um if you believe in free will, then God's not gonna force you to preach the gospel, He's not gonna force you into prison, personally.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_10: I don't believe that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_10: So yeah, I can only agree with what was being said to be honest.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_12: So no one no one feels like actually, Paul saying, I'm in chains for Christ, you know, because of my chains, the gospel is being preached.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_12: It's it's really yeah, what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_12: No one feels like that was God's intent.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_18: I'm sure if Paul wasn't in prison, he would have been preaching and the gospel would be being advanced.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_12: Would he have been able to access that level of you know Roman high society if he hadn't been imprisoned in the midst of them?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_18: I suspect it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_12: I mean, I'm just uh you know, I'm just asking a question.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_18: I suspect if we reached more people outside of prison, we would have had freedom of movement.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_18: Um people would come to nearly might not be a marketplace, and there would have been a great number of people, different people would have done it anyway, but it doesn't look that easy and change positive force anymore.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_18: Yeah, I mean uh basically I think I'll just uh the situation was like a training convergence angle and Roman guards or whether it was in the marketplace free.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_12: Um I'm obviously you know I'm being psyched as CS.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_12: No, no, but it's it's great because I think that's really important.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_12: But I think it's it's important to to contend with these ideas and and to you know discuss them together.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_12: I think that's the whole point of reading the Bible in community, that's what we're aiming to do here.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_12: And it's I think it's okay to have different views on that as well.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_12: Um, but I you know I want to kind of say maybe I've I've asked the wrong question, you know, but it it's maybe not did God let this happen, did he make it happen, did he fail to prevent it happening, but maybe in situations like this, how do we partner with God in spite of the situation?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_12: Maybe that's the way to look at it, not looking for causality, but looking for how God can use the situation, regardless of how it happened, maybe.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_12: Whether we think, you know, well, it's all part of God's plan.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_12: God was everything for good, you know.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_12: Um we've probably heard that phrase tried out by people, and and I think it's a valid, it's a valid perspective, but I think sometimes it's you know, it's more important to ask, you know, how can we partner with God?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_12: And I think that's what we see Paul doing.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_12: And I wonder how often we, when we're in a situation like, well not necessarily like this, but a challenging situation, whether from a faith perspective or not, how often are we seeing setbacks instead of solutions for other issues?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_12: Because what we see in this passage is that Paul turns his obstacles into opportunities.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_12: He he's chained up and he's in prison.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_12: Great, I've got a captive audience.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_12: Because he's not just, you know, in a cell block with a holiday of other people.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_12: Roman prison wasn't quite like that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_12: He's locked in a room and there's a guard in there with him.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_12: There's a Praetorian guard, you know, we see uh in uh in this passage where basically Paul says everyone in the palace has heard about Christ because of me.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_12: That the word palace is not like a it's not like a king's residence, it's it's the the praetorium.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_12: It's basically the the word is is like a guardhouse for the elite Praetorian guards, the kind of the elite of the elite, and they have a very strong affinity for the emperor, basically.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_12: So Paul is locked in there for his whole his whole time with one of these elite guards, and they're on a rotation through, and he's like, oh my gosh, great.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_12: You know, I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_12: You can't get away.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_12: You're you're stood here for your entire shift, and I'm just gonna t I'm just gonna talk to you.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_12: I'm gonna build relationships, I'm gonna preach to you.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_12: And what happens?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_12: You know, the tables are turned, and the guards spread the word because they're like, flip, I've just he's just talk for eight hours straight about this guy, Jesus.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_12: Who what who is this Jesus guy?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_12: What's going on?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_12: Ask him another question when you go in.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_12: Like, you can you can picture it happening, can't you?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_12: And suddenly there's this uh aggressive preaching strategy that rotates through the whole guards, and suddenly, like we're saying, Paul's access to this different strata of society and God's word is being preached.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_12: You know, you can just imagine that absolutely talking to their game, because he we know Paul's a guy who likes to talk, and when he's not got anything else to do, he's got one guy who's in there with him and can't get away, and he's just gonna preach him.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_12: So, whether this is literally, you know, Imperial Guard post in Ephesus, as we said before, whether he's imprisoned in Rome in the heart of the Empire, it doesn't really matter.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_12: He's preaching to the highest corridors of power, and people are talking about Jesus because of Paul's imprisonment.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_12: He's taken the obstacle of imprisonment, he's away from his congregations, he's away from the synagogues and the fora where he might preach to a load of people, but he's he's taken the opportunity.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_12: And you know, he's locked away from his mission field, he's locked away from his churches.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_12: Well, that's an obstacle, but instead, that's encouraged the other believers to stand firm.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_12: We we've probably seen in our lives, in our situations, one believer on fire can inspire thousands just by their faith, just by their perseverance, by their character in the face of suffering.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_12: I don't know, like there's a plaque on the wall right there.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_12: Rob Scott Cook, you know, that's one guy, you know, him and Pam together, they they started the church.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_12: But how many of us have been inspired by his faith personally?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_12: Thousands of people, I'm sure, you know, in Wood Eastern around Bristol, and that's just one person.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_12: Let alone, you know, Paul, who started all these churches all across the Mediterranean, and he everyone knows about him because he's writing to them, he's telling them what's going on, and he's like, no guys, this is great.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_12: Christ is being preached.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_12: How inspiring would that be?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_12: It's you know, it's another country he's writing to, whether he's in Ephesus, in Turkey, or in Roman Italy, he's writing to Philippi, which is a sea away, and they're being inspired and encouraged by him.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_12: That's amazing.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_12: He's taken his obstacle and turned it into an opportunity.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_12: There's the passage where you know, verse 15 uh through to 18, it's true some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, you know, whether from false motives or true Christ is preached.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_12: It's not 100% certain what he's referring to here.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_12: You know, it could be that you know people are trying to steal his thunder while he's out, you know, they're trying to claim his churches or whatever.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_12: It could be, you know, people saying, Oh, have you heard about this guy?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_12: You know, he's just been locked up, he you know, he's proclaiming a new emperor Jesus, but obviously he's in prison and the guy's dead, so no big deal.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_12: It doesn't really matter.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_12: Whether they're being sarcastic about his message or they're trying to preach the gospel to take over his ministry, he says he doesn't care.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_12: When it comes to Jesus, whatever the motive behind the preaching, God can redeem the outcome.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_12: Whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached, and because of this I rejoice.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_12: It's maybe interesting to consider as a side note.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_12: We are in a an age of increasingly seeing a lot of kind of big Christian leaders kind of falling in third commas, you know, people who've got a big ministry or a following being found out to have some like secret sin, or you know, actually post you know posthumously revealed to be quite a nasty piece of work.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_12: Does that negate their ministry?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_12: Do the people who were maybe came to faith because of a a Ravi Zacharias or a Mark Driscoll or Bill Heibels or wherever it's that does that mean that their faith is invalid?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_12: I I don't think so.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_12: I think God can redeem the mission in spite of the you know the delivery.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_12: I I'm there's a personal thing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_12: I'm always I'm always fascinated by the ministry of Judas.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_12: He's one of the twelve.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_12: You know, clearly we all know how it ends, but it never says, Oh, Jesus sent out the twelve and they cast out demons and healed the sick, except for Judas, it didn't really work for him.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_12: Like, it happened, you know, he he had a spiritual ministry and and God was able to use him, even though clearly there was something going on internally that meant that he wasn't he wasn't quite there.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_12: But God is able to use, you know, this ministry that doesn't quite look like how we think it should, but God is bigger than the negative impacts of the kind of the human level, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached, and Paul rejoices.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_12: So we then see Paul facing all these obstacles, and he references that the Philippians are praying for him, which is great.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_12: You know, verse 19, he says, Um, I know that through your prayers and the help uh given by the Spirit of Christ Jesus, what has happened to me and his imprisonment, these people talking negatively about it, that's going to turn out for my deliverance.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_12: And then he says that you know everything's gonna work out.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_12: You know, your Bible might say salvation, deliverance.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_12: When we think of deliverance, what do we think?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_12: I think you know, we probably think of freedom, especially in Paul's current context.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_12: Remember, he's in prison, he's literally, he's changed the wall.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_12: He's not free.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_12: But he says that their prayers and the spirit will give him courage to avoid shrinking from his task.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_12: He's not thinking about physical freedom.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_12: He's thinking about his mission, he's thinking about being empowered to do what.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_12: Jesus has brought him into this place to do.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_12: He says to live is Christ, to die is gain.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_12: There's um a quote from a theologian John Stott I came across when I was preparing this, which is he says that Christ is the center of Christianity, all else is circumference.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_12: And in Paul's scenario, from his perspective, his chains, his imprisonment, his physical situation, that's circumference.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_12: Christ is the center, and everything else is an irrelevance in some ways.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_12: How much of our lives, of our church, of our community of faith is Jesus?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_12: How much do we allow the circumference to dominate our thinking?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_12: Even good stuff, you know, like, you know, who's doing the worship, who's setting up for tea, who's you know, unwelcome, and all that really important stuff that makes church happen, that builds community.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_12: But how much do we allow that circumference to dominate the center, to take Christ's position?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_12: You know, Paul's imprisoned, but he's not thinking about his physical situation, he's thinking only about his mission.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_12: We're not gonna dwell too much on that, you know, but we're not really being asked to make that sort of choice today.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_12: But it does beg the question: could we think this way?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_12: We, you know, we can truly live when we're prepared to die, just like Paul says.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_12: His conclusion, as he goes on, you know, uh, for me to live is Christ, to die as gain.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_12: It's a perfect outworking of what we considered last week in in chapter 1, verses 9 to 10.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_12: And this is my prayer that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that you may be able to discern what is best, may be pure and blameless, until the day of Christ.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_12: He's reflecting on what the Philippians most need.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_12: He's drawing on his intimate knowledge and love for them, and he ultimately decides that even though for him it's less good to not be physically with Jesus, he should stay for their encouragement, for their support.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_12: You know, he's torn between two.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_12: I desire to depart, be with Christ, which is better by far, but it's more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_12: Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, I will continue with all of you.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_12: But that's not what he wants, but because of his love for the church, the people he's writing to, he he decides to stay.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_12: I wonder, as we as we think about this, you know, we're obviously not physically chained, but I wonder if we take a couple of minutes now, let's think about what those chains, you know, metaphorically could be for us.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_12: You know, can you think of an answer to a prayer that you you couldn't see at the time you maybe you were aware of any later?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_12: What might it genuinely look like to not fear death like Paul?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_12: Maybe just pick pick one of those questions, and let's have another conversation in our group because we've got a few minutes to go, and then we'll we'll feed back.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_12: We've got an in our group, so um what what do we uh what do we think?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_12: Um these these sorts of questions.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_12: What are our chains today?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, what might it look like to genuinely to not fear them, to not fear death?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_12: Anyone anyone got anything that they want to say?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah, I think we've uh one of the chains for me sometimes can be uh religion itself.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_10: Um I try not to speak too harsh when I say that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_10: I mean, uh you know you can go to one uh congregation and the way they worship Christ can be completely different to another way another congregation does, and they might even argue no, this is the right way, the way they're doing it is the wrong way, but in reality, what is the way that Jesus wants you to live, and I think that can be a change in time.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_05: I agree.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_05: Anyone else?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think uh the change, especially in my life, is distractions.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: The distractions, uh what I'm saying is uh sometimes we can be distracted by sitting instead of reading the Bible, we can be distracted by sitting down watching TV, yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Or or or doing something, we spend time doing other things instead of spending time in the garden reading the Bible.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we can be distracted in a sense of just saying we're changing that way of life, old habits, yeah.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_12: What does it look like to overcome this sort of thing?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_12: Or or not even to overcome it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_12: You know, that's not what Paul's striving to do.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_12: He's striving to, in spite of his chains, glorify God.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_12: What does that look like?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_12: We talked a little bit in our group about about mental health in the the culture of today, particularly younger generations, and you have things like anxiety, depression, your mental health, lots of crisis in lots of ways.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_12: That can be very restrictive, that can be something that chains and restricts particularly young people, but you know, people of all generations, of course.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_12: What does it look like to, in spite of that, glorify God?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_12: To say, you know, to be open about those things and say, I have this thing that I'm struggling with, but God.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_12: You know, it's not even saying I expect or you know, hope that God will fix or or heal this thing.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_12: It's saying actually, in spite of this, I'm gonna trust God, I am gonna glorify God, I am gonna preach the gospel.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_12: What does that look like?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_12: What might it look like to genuinely not fear something like that?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_12: To fear the death, you know, that the kind of deathiness that comes with you know a mental health crisis, with you know a distracted existence that comes with an oppressive, you know, religious you know culture that's maybe overly focused on the circumference rather than the center.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_12: What about what about you guys at the back?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_12: What were you kind of talking about?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: We were trying to think of um what context chains was it turning to.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it sort of came to each other on different sides.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was a changes, you explained it in you know, habits or whatever that are hindering us, but there's also the perspective of um in culture, for instance, um, and you know, you you've turned your life to Christ, and there are all these things that everyone else is doing and you can't.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's also that perspective of like being those in a way are chains, or you know, that that was when we expect to look at that that question you find a bit broad.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_12: Um that's interesting.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_12: But they're sort of then they're self-imposed, but in a positive way, you know, you're restricting yourself from this experience or that experience, but for the glory of God, you know.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_12: I'm sure we can all think of things you know that are in that kind of realm, and actually that can be glorifying and be a real you know a witness in that way.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, with a great perspective.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_12: Does anyone else have anything to feed back before we move on?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_17: Um I think while we're talking about like that fear of death could also be energy.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_17: I think that's what I was gonna know what after that was you know what's going on.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_17: I think that is another another word for that something powerful.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_17: Which is essentially what I think.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_17: Yeah, that's so true.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, we had um a talk actually at um Wood's East where I go um a couple of weeks ago, literally all about that, the fear of death, and how Christ came, we should have life to the full, you know, it's the story of Lazarus, you know, those who believe in me they will not die, but they will live, you know.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_12: And and then in Hebrews the the writer picks up that theme that you know Christ came to free us from the fear of death.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_12: They and you know, the people who've been enslaved by the fear of death, I think you're right, it's something that can be incredibly controlling, and in some ways, you know, animates everything that we do, whether that's a desire to leave a legacy or a desire to perpetuate our existence or to leave stuff behind is a fear of death.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_15: One of the things I find tricky about with the chains is your understanding of where God's will is for you in that moment.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_15: So if you'd give us the example of how the Paul was in prison and singing songs, that's great.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_15: And the other happened, the chains were broken and the shackles fell off, and uh trash and yourself.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_15: So basically, how you understand where you are in God's soul is you discerning God's will, knowing God's will, being able to have a conversation with you, but also the sitting in the suffering.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_15: And am I meant to be in this place?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_15: Is this where you want me to be?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_15: Is this the right place for me?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_15: And for the point to be so positive and not know that tomorrow he's gonna be out or in or whatever is he in the right space.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_15: And that goes a lot to different things in life in terms of saying, Is this is this where I'm meant to be good?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_15: Is this happy?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_15: Is this continue to fight this and being positive despite all of those things as well?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_15: So here you keep on talking about his positivity, which is amazing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_15: And yet there are there are real challenges in it.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_15: I have a real struggle with the passage that we just discussed with the 15 to 18, with the whole thing, it doesn't actually matter why it's being preached as long as it's being preached.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_15: Yeah, that that just to the core feels wrong.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_15: It does.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_12: And I think it's it's okay to have like the negative feelings as well.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_12: I mean, to come back to the story of Lazarus, I just mentioned what does Jesus do before he raises Lazarus from the dead?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_12: Christ.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_12: He's like, he knows that he's gonna raise him from the dead.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_12: He knows that this is all gonna be over, but he looks around him and he says, Flit, this shouldn't be like this.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_12: The people I love are sad.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_12: I'm sad.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_12: This shouldn't happen.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_12: This is not the way my father made it to be.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_12: And it moves him emotionally, he he weeps.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_12: And I think that kind of the grief, the anger, the frustration, those are all incredibly valid responses to a world that is broken.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_12: And you know, Paul's got a perspective here that's like, you know, yes, it's bad, but it, you know, but it's okay because Christ is being preached.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_12: We see elsewhere, you know, I've pleaded over and over again with God to remove this thorn from my flesh.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_12: You know, woe is me, I you know I keep doing what I don't want to do.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_12: What I want to do, I don't do.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_12: You know, we read, you know, we should we should be reading that you know the corpus of Paul's work as a collective.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_12: You know, we're not just picking out this verse or that verse and saying we should always be positive in the face of suffering.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_12: Because sometimes we're not.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_12: Sometimes something's terrible has happened, and that's just terrible.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_12: And we need to acknowledge that, and that's an important and healthy part of responding to those things.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_12: So it's a really, really valid perspective, and thanks for bringing it up.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_12: I I really appreciate that.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_12: And we, you know, we need to kind of sometimes hold those intentions.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_12: You know, a bad thing has happened, but God is still able to use the bad thing to make a good thing happen.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_12: Does that mean it caused the bad thing?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_12: I I would argue probably not.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_12: I don't think that God causes bad things to happen.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_12: I think that you know, for me, that you know, my my opinion is that that would that would challenge my theology of who God is and his and his character.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_12: But some people would argue that God causes everything to happen, and I think that's a valid opinion some people have.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_12: But God can use those negative things to bring good, and it's then how do we partner with God in our negative situation?
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_12: What does that look like to partner with him in those negative situations?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_12: And that's a little bit what Paul goes into in this final section, aware we're running on a little bit, but I'll just quickly touch on what happens in this final section.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_12: It's all about unity, and it's all about in the face of challenge, in the face of a negative environment, in the face of a society that's trying to break them down and crush them, they're facing these challenges.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_12: They're the outsiders.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_12: What does it look like to be united?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_12: And I think it's clear what's relevant to us here.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_12: In the face of massive cultural pressure, how do you hold on to your faith?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_12: That feels relevant to me.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_12: That feels applicable to our culture right now.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_12: We're in the midst of a big cultural battle.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_12: You know, to be honest, whatever side of it you find yourself on, I don't think Christians are split.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_12: I don't think Christians sit neatly on one side of the fence.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_12: I think there's there's plenty of different opinions, probably even in this room.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_12: But what does it look like?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_12: I was listening to a podcast the other day, which ironically was talking about some of these kind of cultural issues, but from a Christian perspective, and um the the guy said something actually I thought was really profound, which is empire requires uniformity, but the kingdom requires unity.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_12: And we're not we're not told we all have to be exactly the same, but we are told that we have to be united.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_12: We all have to conduct ourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_12: That word conduct yourself is is a Greek uh term that Paul uses, it's polyotumi, which literally means be a citizen, be a law-abiding citizen of well, not of Rome, not of Philippi, but of the kingdom.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_12: You're a kingdom citizen in your situation.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_12: I I put this into Bible Hub, which is a very fun online software, which will let you look at in a Greek lexicon.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_12: And this is a verb that's in the present imperative middle second person plural tense, which I did have to write down.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_12: And you don't need to know what that means, but essentially that structure means that it's referring to everyone he's writing to.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_12: It's a command, it's right now in the present, and he's telling them to do it.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_12: The structure of that verb, which you know, you don't have to know all that to you know be able to read that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_12: I just googled it, it's fine.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_12: But like what it means is he's saying this is an absolute imperative.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_12: This isn't a polite suggestion.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_12: Paul's saying, all of you lot, be good citizens.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_12: Conduct yourself in a manner worthy of the gospel.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_12: He's playing on that citizenship we talked about before.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_12: They are both in their local community of believers, they're in their city, Philippi, but they're also part of the global community of heaven.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_12: Don't live like you're an exclusive citizen of the world, he's saying.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_12: Live into your citizenship as a member of the kingdom.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_12: Remember where your true identity lies.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_12: What does this bring for the church?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_12: It brings unity.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_12: It means that we need to stand as one person, as a collective.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_12: In this room, in big church on a Sunday, in our small communities in midweek, as a Christian community in Bristol and England and the world, we should be united as one person to contend for the gospel.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_12: Not necessarily to contend for this social issue or for that political ideology or for that, but for the gospel.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_12: And that's really important.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_12: I've got a couple more questions, but I think I've gone on a little bit too long.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_12: So I'm gonna hand over to Jack now, and um, he's gonna take us through the next section.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_12: But before we do that, has anyone got any questions, anything they want to raise off the back of what we've talked about?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_12: We'll have some more time to discuss, but yeah, has anyone got any anything they want to they want to pick up on?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_12: It's totally okay if not.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_11: Um yeah, I mean I was gonna say like what you just said about conducting yourself in a manner that's uh worth of the gospel and how like that's pretty much impossible for us.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, isn't that kind of the point like how like isn't that the point of the gospel for like yeah?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_12: So yeah, so we we're obviously no, we're never gonna be perfect.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, but does the gospel say, well, I mean like Paul says in one of his other letters, you know, shall I keep on sinning that grace might increase?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_12: By no means.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_12: You know, we are not trying to just do this in our own strength.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_12: We have the spirit in us, you know.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_12: We know that you know when we when we accept Christ, we we get given the spirit, it's a certain deposit of our salvation, and the spirit works to make us more holy, to sanctify us, to make us more like Jesus day by day.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_12: So we have to, you know, we believe that actually as we do this, as we conduct ourselves as as worthy citizens of of heaven and of earth, it's the spirit who's doing that with us, and we have, you know, obviously we partner with the spirit in that.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_12: There is there's plenty of agency that we have, but it's also the spirit works through us to do that, and so we have a choice whether or not we we kind of take up that mantle, but the spirit also works in us to to make us more of that as well.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_12: Does that make sense?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_05: Awesome.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_05: Could you say that uh you're never going to be perfect?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you are, aren't you?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_12: Well, I mean, in this this side of eternity, I would argue that we we're not, but we are being sanctified and made more perfect, made more Christ-like day by day.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_12: But I think this side of the new creation, uh, if I think the Bible suggests that you know we're still gonna make mistakes, there's no distinction, all of sin falls short of the glory of God, but God accepts us and God, you know, will glorify us through the Spirit because of Jesus.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_12: And when we reach eternity, you know, whether that's tomorrow, whether that's after we die and the new creation comes, you know, we're we're made perfect then.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_12: Does that make sense?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_12: Awesome.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_12: Jack?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_13: Imitating Christ's humility.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_13: Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_13: Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_13: Rather, in humility, rather in humility, value others above yourself, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of others.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_13: In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_08: Rather, he made himself nothing.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_08: Therefore, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name of his above every night.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_08: The name of Jesus, every niche of bath, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledged that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_14: So this passage, Philippians 2, starts off relatively simple, feels like it's just a nice little continuation of Philippians 1, where it's all like Paul's really happy, you know, even though he shouldn't really be really happy, he's really happy.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_14: And then we get to a really interesting, bit mind-boggling, beautiful bit of theological poetry.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_14: Um, and so this is my PhD supervisor said um there is hardly a passage in the Bible that has attracted so much theological attention over the centuries than a few verses 6 to 8 from Paul's letter to the 50s.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_14: So thank you, Dan, for giving this bit to me.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_14: Um so kind.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_14: Um we are going to start with some questions, basically.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_14: Um, why do you think Paul starts by encouraging um certain behaviour in the church in Philippi and then proceeds to write a complex theological poem about the being a person of Christ?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_14: Uh and is Paul therefore just moving from the practical to the theological?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_14: And if so, why do you think that?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_14: And if he's not moving from practical to theological, what is he doing?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_14: Does that make sense as a set of questions?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_14: That's fine.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_14: So we have like we have this very practical love people, keep preaching Christ, it's all great, find joy, and then we suddenly get theology about who Jesus is.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_14: Why is that happening?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_14: Is there a connection?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_14: So, for example, we think the person who decides where the numbers go in Philippians splits up one from two, right?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_14: Then they're not original to the text, they're like 12th century, the editions of chapter 1, chapter 2, and so on.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_14: So what when Paul first writes this, like there's there's like it is a continuation.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_14: So, but is it supposed to have a gap or not?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_14: And what difference does it make if we read it with a gap?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_14: Does that make more sense?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_14: Have a chat.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_14: Why is there a complex theological poem in Philippians 2?
• 43:45
  unknown: Does that jump to the Justice Jesus?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_13: We were sort of talking about how it's I mean, in my Bible, I don't know whether I'm I'm reading from NIB, but the passage is type.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_13: Imitating Christ's humility.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_13: We sort of discussed it being like the what to do and then why to do it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_13: And that's a broad gonna be I think they're like they are completely.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_14: So what's the why?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_13: Um the why is because this is I mean first five says itself in relationship will rather have the same mindset as in Christ Jesus, and the why is because that's the that's the way Jesus acted, and we're called to be Christ-like in how we are with other people and in our faith, and that's why we should be acting in selflessness and humility and not in matters.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_14: Because Jesus takes on that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_18: I don't think it's kind of just going to be chilling.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_14: What does that tell us about our theology and our practice?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_14: If you can invert the two, if you can read two then one or one then two.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_14: Theology and practice are always metal.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_14: I mean properly are always met.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_09: How can we be a prisoner so you can be joyful?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_09: And how can and then raise a tension where you can raise a chat line?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_09: And there's the answer of how is it like Jesus as a race attention?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_09: Sometimes wants you to think about it kind of that's impossible.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_09: It is impossible.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, I think it's yeah, and the like it's not just the like Jesus does it, it's that he focuses on Jesus becomes human, like Jesus becomes like you.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_14: So it's not just this idea that the God man can do something, it's this idea that the human person who is also united to the divine can do this, right?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_14: That's I think that's really important.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_14: And so when we think about how we do theology and how we do practical things, they should be linked to each other.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_14: And they can you can start with one and go to the other, and you can start with practice and go to theology.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_14: And they good practice and good theology will always be linked properly.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_14: It doesn't work like a train track where you have one thing, then the next, and the next, right?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_14: It's more like a circle with points, right?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_14: So your practice informs your practice, your feelings, and your theology are mutually mutually informing, right?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_14: Paul has great theology training, right?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_14: And that leads him to persecute the church.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_14: It's his encounter with the spirit that reorientates his theology and therefore informs his own practice, right?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_14: His really great theology training is really useless without his encounter.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_14: And our really great theology is useless without an outworking in practice.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_14: Think about James, faith without works instead.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_14: It's not that the theology doesn't matter though, because Paul then spends a lot of time dealing with a really complex bit of theology.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_14: So it's not that we suddenly go, well, we don't need any theology, right?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_14: Because why is he doing the practice he's doing?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_14: Because of who Jesus is, and that's theological.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_14: And that's really fun.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_14: And I think this is really important for us to think about because when we start talking, describing what we believe, why we act, that will have an impact on people who listen to you.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_14: Uh, I've got a friend who we were at unis together with in Scotland, and um she was in a different church than me, much more conservative church, and she was asked, she asked her home group for like a safe flight home.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_14: And uh one of the there's a new Christian in their home group, and uh he was like, uh God, I just pray that you give her a safe flight home if you will it.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_14: And she was like, No, not like if you will it, like ask for it.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_14: But the sort of church she was in, like the the sort of language from the pulpit, from worship in home groups, that was the sort of accompanying practical language, right?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_14: And that directly informed a theological position, which affected how he prayed, right?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_14: The language we use, which is theological, which is what Paul's doing in chapter two, will inform the practice.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_14: Does that make sense?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_14: Um and so we should think about that if you ever do preaching, if you ever pick songs for worship, um, how you pray, what words you use to pray, um, how you talk about people to people.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_14: All of these things are practical, but they're also theological.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_14: Um, what do we think?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_14: Is I have a slide, please?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_14: I can't remember.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_14: Um so who, in being very nature god, did not consider a quality with God something to be used to his own advantage, rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_14: Um what power does Jesus have?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_14: Uh what does he give up or divest himself of or empty himself of?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_14: In like when Paul's saying this, uh, and what does it mean for him mean for him to be made nothing?
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_14: If Jesus is God, if if he is if Jesus, if the logos exists prior to the incarnation, what happens to God in the incarnation?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_14: Does that make sense as a question?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_14: What when so in being this is verse six and seven, who in being very nature God did not consider a quality with God something to be used to his own advantage, but rather he made himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a servant, uh, being made in human likeness.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_14: So the Greek word here is uh kenosis, which is out emptying.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_14: So what does he empty himself of?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: His deity.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_14: His deity?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_14: He stops being God.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: Well he's part I suppose he's is all man but all god at the same time.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_14: So he can't have then he can't have given up his divinity then, right?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_14: If he he can be all man as well, but that's not an empty.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_14: What is what's have a chat?
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_14: What's what's where's that where's it going?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, no, that's a good question.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_14: Does Jesus lose any divinity?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_14: No.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_14: Good start.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_14: Not heretics.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_09: He loses omniscience, but not omnipresence.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_09: Does he?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_09: Well in Jesus, you you can't be omnipresent omnipresence.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_14: You can't be very omnipresent.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_14: Well, and why is that?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_09: Because he's in the body like ours.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_14: But Ephesians says that Christ ascends to omnipresence.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_09: Sorry?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_14: Ephesians says that Christ ascends to omnipresence.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_09: That's later.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_14: That's later.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_05: That's later.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_14: But that means it's not body, it's not means it's not a body that determines omnipresence or not.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_05: Well, does the spirit potentially more omnipotent, then it?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, so not so I guess this is like knowledge and presence.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_14: So he is not everywhere.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_14: Right.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_14: I'd agree with you, he's not everywhere.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_14: He's not everywhere.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_14: But also, I don't know if that has to be about the body.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_14: That's a difficult, we're not gonna go there, but yeah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_10: I could be talking absolute nonsense, but I think in the uh chat the verse says he lost equality with God.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_10: So is he does he become more than of a slave to the father's will, more so than an equality?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_14: Does he lose equality or does he not consider equality?
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, but this is it.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_14: What do we mean by the language?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_12: That's we touched on that as well, actually, in sort of saying that like it feels like he gets up agency, like he's physically limited, he's temporally limited, and he says, I can't I can do what I see the Father doing.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_12: He gives up that access to divine power except which God works through him in a way modeling.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_14: Does God ever have agency in the way that we have agency?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_14: Does God decide what to do?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_14: Yes.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_14: So if God is perfect and knows all things, then does he perfectly know what he would will?
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_14: Therefore, why would he have to decide anything?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_18: Because he knows it already, so he doesn't need there's no decision.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, so there is no agency to God, but that's not a bad thing.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_14: That's the at least that's the view of Thomas Aquinas.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, not in the curse to God.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, nothing.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_15: But his mind is changed by prayer, changed the reading priority.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_14: Yes, and the amos seven, and the Lord relented.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_14: And Moses, Moses in access to God's prayer is changed, or just and Abraham and basically every prophet apart from uh Elijah, and then and what happens with Elijah the uh Elijah goes, I'm done with Israel, God, you can kill them, and God goes, No, that's not your job.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_14: You're supposed to stand in the gap, right?
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_14: So is that now I do think sometimes I don't think God changes his mind.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_14: This is part of my PhD, but like I don't think that means he can't be affected.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_14: I mean he can be affected.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus also asks us to ask.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_14: And we talked about the widow who continually harangues God in Thessalonians in in every situation by prayer and petition, present the request to God.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_14: So the question really is not, these are now sort of side questions, but like very important side questions.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_14: Like, how does God interact with us?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_14: But what's happening to Jesus?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_15: So we thought that he relinquished his fellowship with the Trinity.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_15: What do you mean by that?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_15: He's not constantly present with his father, he then communicated with his father, he slept.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_15: He when he was a child, he was fed.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_15: He he was not constantly in that communion and fellowship that he had been in beforehand.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_14: Where is the father?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_15: So that's a very good question.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_14: In terms of the constant version, yeah, because I would say there's a um I would say the Trinity is always indwelling within itself.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_14: I mean the spirit seems to descend on Christ in his baptism, not quite sure what's going on there.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_14: Like where is the spirit before that point of Jesus?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_14: Because is the spirit anywhere any ever not somewhere?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, if is God omnipresent, is God everywhere?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_14: Yes, then what is it to be out of fellowship with God?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't the spirit doing that so that people would see?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_14: Maybe the same thing.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_14: But his something happens to Jesus' ministry at the point of baptism, right?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_14: It changes.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_14: And is that just what was supposed to happen following the descendant of the spirit?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_14: Was it just supposed to be uh exemplary?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_15: Or is it something more talking about the omnius and you talk about the omnipresence and you talk about the omniscience?
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_15: Because he does know about wonderful well, he knows his story before he even knows.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_15: But he also gets frustrated.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_15: Why would you get frustrated when you know when the Bible when the when the when the when the disciples are falling asleep or when they're you know upset that the storm is gonna kill them, he still gets angry with them.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_14: Emotions aren't necessarily dependent on experience though, right?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_14: I I can I can in conjunction with your change when you're if you're uh anyone here a Wolves fan.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_14: I used to be current currently currently bottom of the Premier League, right?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_14: You can be pretty sure they're gonna lose next week.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_14: They're still pretty upset about it, right?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_14: I manage one of the one of the uh Woodlands football teams.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_14: I'm pretty sure we're going to lose on Saturday.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_14: Pretty sure.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_14: I'm gonna turn up and try and win anyway, and I'm pretty sure we're going to lose.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, but it's different uh pretty sure.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_14: You're right.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_14: And so uh how does uh if you watch a film for the second time, are you less emotionally affected or are you just differently emotionally affected?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_14: There's some films that always make me cry.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_14: Like every time.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_14: Doesn't matter that I don't, that I know the ending.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: But that's your emotion, that's different to me because it doesn't make me cry.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_14: Sure, we're individuals, that's fine.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_14: But what I guess there might be other things for you that you would say, well, this always happens.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_14: I don't know, it might not be true, but like I would say I would I am just basically more making the general point that knowledge isn't necessarily an effect of on an emotional experience.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_05: Should um that God on second leg be found?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_14: Uh is that what your Bible says?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_14: Is that what your Bible says?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_14: Oh no, what's is it verse seven?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_14: Let's see.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_14: Sorry, verse six.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_14: I guess, well, I guess God is often used synonymously for Father.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_14: But I guess you could also say, is it synonymous with Father and Spirit?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_05: Is part of, isn't it?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_05: The Father is part of, part of God.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_14: He's all of God and part of the Trinity.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_14: He is the full divine essence with a specific hypostasis.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_14: Who knows?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_13: We were sort of discussing that actually, maybe he didn't give up anything, but instead gained like vulnerable the vulnerability of humanity in order to display to us actually he didn't need to do that, but it was to show us actually he does understand.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_13: Um, even though you already understood, but it's the it's the example.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_13: I get it.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_14: And a lot of people would like that and agree with you, but then we do have to do something with the words in the text, which now do not mean what they would seem to me.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_14: We do that all the time, worth saying.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_14: You may not be comfortable with that, but people do that all the time.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_14: Like this is my body, for example.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_14: I think it is the body of Christ in the Eucharist, but lots of people would say no, it's just like Christ's body, it's still bread.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_14: We we do that quite regularly.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_14: Um I don't think um Christ becomes less divine.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_14: I think I don't I think that's important to say.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_14: Um I think we this is one of those places where we have to look at the uh breadth of scripture.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_14: So this Colossians 2 9, for in Christ the fullness of deity lives in bodily form.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_14: So we have to hold that intention with what's happening in Philippians.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_14: Uh and John 1 1, in the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and the word was with uh word was God.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_14: He was with God in the beginning, the word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_14: There are lots of other very like uh high divinity statements about the person of Christ.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_14: Um so I do not think he's less divine than before.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_14: Um, I do think we have some sort of hiddenness, right?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_14: So Christ does not, like not everybody knows he's God, for example.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_14: He still looks like a baby, then he looks like a teenager, then he looks like a human.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_14: He still has to eat and go to the toilet and get sick, right?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_14: Those things are true for Christ's life.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_14: He still weeps.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_14: Um, and by weeps, I mean I don't mean that about emotions, because I think the father can experience emotions, but he has physical tears.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_14: The father and the spirit have no body.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_14: That's a new thing for Christ.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_14: Um he's right, he's not uh omnipresent, um, at least at this point.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_14: Um so Kinosis could as well.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_14: I think he probably is all-knowing, but that some people would say no, some people would say yes.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_04: He did say to the um his disciples that um it comes to the end of time.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_14: Is it only the features of and that is that a question about divine roles, or is that a question about something else?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_14: Is that a question that he's not just going to answer your question?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_14: Like, I'm not there's always going to be attention somewhere in the Bible because that's the beauty of it, right?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_14: And that is so annoying.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_14: Um because we can't just have this nice comfortable answer, we go, here's the answer.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_14: It's not how it works.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_14: Um sorry, um just a quick thing.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_12: Yeah, you just said you think Jesus was an omnipresent at this stage.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_13: Yeah, but he is God, so he would be omnipresent.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_14: Well, the it's still the three.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_14: It's the divine essence.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_14: It's the divine essence.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, but it's still what do you mean by that?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_14: So he uh what it is to be fully God is contained within the person of Christ, but that doesn't mean he's everywhere.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_14: It does in terms of his Trinitarian relations.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, because the fullness of God is also the Father and also the Spirit.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_14: So it's not that God isn't everywhere, it's just that Jesus is located.
• 1:01:28
  unknown: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_14: Does that make sense?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, but he is everywhere because God is everywhere, because he is He is in the sense that the divine nature is somewhere.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_14: That doesn't mean you can that doesn't mean we would say that Christ because Christ, well yeah, but the person of Christ I don't think I don't think is everywhere because he's located.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_14: But that is important to say that Jesus isn't omnipresent.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_14: That doesn't mean the divine nature has ceased to be omnipresent, it just means that the person of Christ isn't.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_14: This is where the language gets like yeah, like complicated.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it does say in the Bible that uh everything is possible in the world.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_14: It does, and it but there's a question, but all possibility is dependent on um on it being a thing to be possible.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_14: I'm gonna park that for a moment.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_14: Okay, so for example, can can God create a square circle?
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_14: No, why not?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_14: Because the definition of a square is yeah, it's definitely not a thing.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_14: God can't do non-things, yeah, right?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_14: It's not that God can't, it's that is not a thing to be done.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, right?
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_14: Does is can God sin?
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_14: No, he's perfectly holy.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_14: It's perfectly fine to say there are things that God can't do, doesn't do, won't do, and yeah, and all that range of that.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_14: So it doesn't mean that no, but so it's in it that is an impossibility for God.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, it means that's different for things being possible in the in a holy sense for us, right?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um but does that mean in the form of Jesus he could be because Jesus had to make decisions not to sin?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: He was tempted many times and he had to say no.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_14: And this is brings us back to the tension of the person of Christ.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_14: Like also when what happens to his divine nature?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: He said, take it from me, not from us.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: So again, he was separated from the case.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_14: But the but the person of Christ is is united.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_14: I I don't think Christ is separated from the Father on the cross.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_06: What?
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_14: I don't think Christ is separated from the Father from the cross.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_14: So he died, and yeah, in the right.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_14: Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?
• 1:03:32
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_14: Where's the quoting from?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_14: Anyone know?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_06: Psalm 22.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_14: Psalm 22.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_14: What is Psalm 22?
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_14: It's a lament psalm.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_14: The end of Psalm 22 ends in a statement of divine faithfulness.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_14: What is Christ doing?
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_14: He is effectively leading worship from the cross.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_14: It's like it's like the singing the beginning of a song where you know what the second line is.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_14: Anyone hear a lip?
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_14: Anyone here a lippool fan?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_14: I know, I know.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_14: It's the best example I can think of, right?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_14: If I go to Anfield and someone starts going, Oh, fields of Antwerp, and I just joined in, where once we saw King Kenny play, and could he play?
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_14: Someone sings the first line and everyone knows the second line.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_14: Jesus sings the first line of the psalm, everyone knows where the song goes.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_14: Because that's the worship.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_14: We could probably do the same thing with loads of worship songs that we sing on a Sunday here.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_14: We'll sing the first line, you'll know the second line.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't that cheapen a bit what he's he's saying?
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he's in agony.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's I mean, that's another thing.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_14: No, because I think it's genuinely amount.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_14: It's not that he's not upset about it.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_03: I've never heard that before.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, I know that's that's fine, we can have a chat later.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_14: I think we're gonna we've only got five minutes and we've I've got loads of things to talk about.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_14: So uh I love chat.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_14: We're gonna skip past it.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_14: Okay.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_14: This is um this is one way we could think about uh God.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_14: And so this is Luther's uh super eminence, it's called.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_14: Um so he says this is he says, nothing is so great that God could not be greater, nothing is so small that God would not be smaller, nothing is so long that God would not be longer, and nothing is so short that God would not be shorter, nothing is so high that God would not be higher, and nothing is so low that God would not be lower.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_14: I think the part of the point in Philippians is that God models like everything for us, right?
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_14: He is the most beautiful, he is the one who suffers the most, he is the one who cares the most, right?
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_14: He is like any most, whether that's small or big, or impassioned or um together, is God, right?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_14: Because he's bigger than you.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_14: Um and I think this is really interesting, and I think I guess my final set of questions.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_14: Which we'll just do sort of out loud is what does it look like for us to model the behavior of what Paul says is describing his Christ?
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_14: Of this, like Christ will do anything for you.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_14: He is the one who becomes humble, more humble than you could ever imagine being, right?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_14: What does that mean to model that in our church and our community and in our lives?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_14: Any thoughts?
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_07: Um, which um is about someone who is like holy fool and is just meant to be kind and loving to everyone.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_07: And um yourself.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, this like over so so for the other that it looks stupid, I guess.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_14: Anyone else?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_14: What might it look like practically in church today?
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_13: Um maybe uh almost like a a race to serve one another.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_13: Um like not or not to not allow yourself to be served as well, because I think there's also a a good part of that, uh a good part to that, sorry, but like actually being so keen to humble yourself for other people that it's doing the jobs for them that maybe they don't want to do or you don't really want to do for them.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_13: It's loving someone when you don't want to, you know, maybe you don't like them that much.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_13: Um, and it's like trying to adopt that humility, I think.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_14: Attempting to be like real, genuine community for the other.
• 1:07:55
  unknown: Right.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_14: And that doesn't mean you don't have gifts that you shouldn't you shouldn't use.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_14: That's no longer like like being humble doesn't mean don't use the gifts you have, right?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_14: And but sometimes it means also just doing the gritty stuff.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_14: The fact that like I have lots of friends at lots of other churches with lots of theology that doesn't agree with mine, that's fine.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_14: Brothers and sisters of Christ, happy days.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, we can put that aside.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_14: It means I can come to Sunday, come to church on Sunday and sing some songs and go.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_14: I really don't like that bit of theology.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_14: Really annoys me.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_14: Put it down and try and worship anyway.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_14: It's like giving the new preacher a chance because they're new and they're not very good.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_14: And that's fine.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_14: They only get good by doing like 10,000 hours of it.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_14: That's sitting through a lot of boring sermons.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_14: That's fine.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_14: And it's having people over for dinner and being generous with our money and our finances and thinking about where we invest.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_14: About whether we own homes or second homes or third homes and what that might mean.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_14: I'm not telling you the right answer to those things.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_14: Go read my blog.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_14: Again, I have an opinion, you don't have to agree with mine.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_14: That's fine.
• 1:09:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_14: We are close to the end.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_14: Any sort of final questions?
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_14: We have three minutes.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_15: Do you know do you know what the word nothing is in your original?
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_14: No idea.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_14: It'll be on Bible Hub, but I don't know.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_14: I don't have his hand.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_05: Jesus wasn't on omnipresent.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh because it says that uh everything is possible, it means all good things, so that's a good thing, really, isn't it?
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_14: As in what sorry, keep going with that.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_14: What are you trying to where are you going?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_14: Is in him not being omnipresent is a good thing?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that he was omnipresent.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_14: Well, he becomes omnipresent.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_14: Sorry, what's that?
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_14: I'm trying, I'm trying to.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_14: Yeah, I think, I mean, omnipresence is a bit like, well, where is God?
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_14: And this is related to like what is eternity and everlastingness.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_14: Where's how does time function?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_14: Again, welcome to my PhD.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_14: They're all fun questions, they're all side and they play into like how we understand what Paul thinks.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_14: And like Paul doesn't have a fourth century consular view of Trinity, right?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_14: He has at least a proto-Trinitarian theology.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_14: Because as in like we have a theology of Trinity that comes out of Nicaea, particularly, where they and where the Cappadocian fathers in the fourth century start going, how do we talk about Jesus?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_14: And we have we are at a point in history where we go, this is how we talk about Jesus, right?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_14: One divine essence, one individualized hypostatus, which each Trinitarian person has, right?
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_14: So three hypostators, one essence.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_14: That doesn't exist in the first century, right?
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_14: Partly because the Cappadocians redefine what those words mean in order to solve the problems.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_14: Let's go, what if this word meant something else?
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_14: It's really clever, right?
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_14: But Paul is still at the beginning of the letters going, I write to you in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_14: He is worshipping Jesus as God.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_14: Right?
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_14: We still got all the way through like Philippians 1, right?
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_14: He says it's all about Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ, Christ.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_14: So he is like doing what we would look at and say that's some sort of Trinitarian theology.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_14: It's just not necessarily what we would recognize.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_14: That's okay.
• 1:11:58
  unknown: Great.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_14: Shall I pray to finish?
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_14: Dear Lord, we uh uh we thank you for your uh gracious presence with us.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_14: We thank you that uh you can be in the midst of the difficult theology and we can worship you anyway, and we pray that you will bless us as we go into the rest of our weeks as we think of how we uh live like uh you.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_14: Amen.