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Bengals Booth Podcast: Super Freak · Bengals Booth Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: I get everybody on Dan Horden.
0:05
Speaker 2: Thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast.
0:08
Speaker 1: The super free, super free.
0:11
Speaker 2: Addition, as I pose five questions to the mutant Bengals
0:16
Speaker 2: rookie Chris Jenkins. Plus Can't Lee Platt, the guy who
0:20
Speaker 2: invented relative athletics score discusses the freakiness of this year's
0:24
Speaker 2: draft class, and finally, I'll talk to a quarterback who
0:28
Speaker 2: is back on the Bengals roster six years after being
0:31
Speaker 2: drafted by Cincinnati. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to
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Speaker 2: of the Bengals. Now here's a quick reminder that you
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1:01
Speaker 2: to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever you
1:05
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Howard denneroff.
1:11
Speaker 2: On Wednesday, it was announced that Howard is leaving Westwood
1:14
Speaker 2: One Sports after being the executive producer of its national
1:19
Speaker 2: radio broadcasts for roughly thirty years. So if you were
1:23
Speaker 2: in your car and couldn't be in front of the
1:26
Speaker 2: TV for part of a Super Bowl or the Final Four,
1:29
Speaker 2: or the Masters, or the Kentucky Derby or the Olympics,
1:33
Speaker 2: and wound up listening on the radio, chances are Howard
1:37
Speaker 2: was in charge of the broadcast. I don't know of
1:40
Speaker 2: anybody in any walk of life who does his or
1:43
Speaker 2: her job better. Howard's knowledge, attention to detail, and ear
1:49
Speaker 2: for what makes a great broadcast and broadcaster is simply unmatched.
1:55
Speaker 2: I don't know what he plans to do next, but
1:57
Speaker 2: any company would be fortunate to higher Howard Denaroff. Now
2:03
Speaker 2: let's get to football. Last week on this podcast, I
2:06
Speaker 2: posed five questions to first round draft pick of Marius Mims, where,
2:11
Speaker 2: among other things, we learned that he hasn't surrendered a
2:14
Speaker 2: sack since he was a junior in high school. That
2:18
Speaker 2: was five years ago. I told him, Marius, we'd all
2:21
Speaker 2: be perfectly happy if he averages one sack allowed every
2:24
Speaker 2: five years in Cincinnati. Now time for another round of
2:29
Speaker 2: five questions with the team's second round selection, a defensive
2:34
Speaker 2: tackle out of Michigan with a fantastic nickname. Time for
2:40
Speaker 2: five questions with second round draft pick Chris Jenkins. Question
2:44
Speaker 2: number one is, Bengals fans have now learned your nickname
2:47
Speaker 2: is the Mutant, which is a fantastic sports nickname. What
2:53
Speaker 2: did you think the first time you heard it? And
2:55
Speaker 2: is there a better sports nickname than the Mutant?
3:00
Speaker 3: So, you know, my sophomore year, that's when our head
3:02
Speaker 3: strength coach, Coach heard gave me that nickname. And this
3:05
Speaker 3: is before I earned my stripes. I've really proved myself
3:07
Speaker 3: on the team, so you know, getting that from him
3:09
Speaker 3: when I first heard it, you know, I was kind
3:11
Speaker 3: of starshucking the moment. I was kind of shocked, and
3:13
Speaker 3: then the whole team embraced that before I feel like
3:16
Speaker 3: I really embraced it. And you know, ever since I
3:18
Speaker 3: got that nickname, you know, I just tried to embrace
3:22
Speaker 3: what people saw in me and just get that right back.
3:24
Speaker 2: And then so Mamba Magic, I mean, does anything compare?
3:29
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you think, all right, that one's
3:30
Speaker 2: even better?
3:31
Speaker 3: I think no, I think the Mutant definitely up there.
3:33
Speaker 3: But with that, with such a cold nickname, that just
3:36
Speaker 3: means I have to be that much colder on the field.
3:38
Speaker 1: I like it all right.
3:40
Speaker 2: There's a guy that puts out a freak list every
3:42
Speaker 2: year before the college football season, supposedly the top one
3:45
Speaker 2: hundred athletic freaks in college football. You were in the
3:48
Speaker 2: top ten prior to last year. And one of the
3:51
Speaker 2: things they showed, which is some video that's now like
3:54
Speaker 2: making the rounds on the internet, it's called the Turkish
3:57
Speaker 2: get up that you did with one hundred seven tventy
4:00
Speaker 2: pound dumbbells. I didn't even know they existed at one
4:03
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy pounds. Describe the Turkish get up?
4:06
Speaker 3: Well, the Turkish get up, you know, it's really like
4:08
Speaker 3: a full body movement. It's a full body lift. You know,
4:11
Speaker 3: you start with it, you're holding you know, one hundred
4:13
Speaker 3: and seventy or one hundred and seventy pounds, you know,
4:15
Speaker 3: on a single arm and start off, but you got
4:17
Speaker 3: to use your core to push up off the ground.
4:19
Speaker 3: You got to be able to stand up with it
4:20
Speaker 3: all the way off the ground and then get back
4:22
Speaker 3: down with it without without it fall and without losing
4:24
Speaker 3: track of it. And you know, that's really something where
4:27
Speaker 3: before I really came to the Canda, Michigan. I didn't
4:29
Speaker 3: even know I could do, let alone do that much
4:32
Speaker 3: amount of weight, So, you know, and really, those dumbells
4:34
Speaker 3: get to about two ten and I've yet to break
4:36
Speaker 3: the record there yet. But really I'm trying to get
4:40
Speaker 3: I really won't feel satisfied until I could at least
4:42
Speaker 3: get to some completely unheard of I want to break
4:45
Speaker 3: the limit the heaviest dumb bell if I could do
4:47
Speaker 3: it with it.
4:47
Speaker 1: Oh heck yeah, all right.
4:49
Speaker 2: For people that haven't checked it out, look up Chris Jenkins, Turkish,
4:52
Speaker 2: get up.
4:52
Speaker 1: You will be impressed. Question number three.
4:55
Speaker 2: You were the captain on a national championship team last
4:57
Speaker 2: year with the Wolverines. They just released them video sometime
5:00
Speaker 2: in the last week or two of your national championship
5:03
Speaker 2: rings and what they're going to look like. I assume
5:05
Speaker 2: you've seen that. What'd you think and what other swag
5:08
Speaker 2: do you have? Did you save from the national championship?
5:12
Speaker 1: Well?
5:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, no rings. When we saw them, they're beautiful, man,
5:14
Speaker 3: The Rose Bowl ring, it is honestly the best, to
5:17
Speaker 3: be honest, is beautiful. But you know, finally getting those rings,
5:20
Speaker 3: seeing them and putting them on, man, it was just
5:22
Speaker 3: having that jip. You know that's what you worked for
5:25
Speaker 3: and having that and to be honest with you, don't
5:27
Speaker 3: got no other jet really from the natty you know,
5:29
Speaker 3: I don't got I really don't. I'm not that joypy
5:31
Speaker 3: in general. So that's what makes the rings that much better.
5:34
Speaker 3: That's why we got to get more and more and more,
5:36
Speaker 3: as many as possible.
5:37
Speaker 1: So you've actually had the ring. It wasn't just video.
5:39
Speaker 3: Oh no, we got the rings. We got the rings
5:41
Speaker 3: right now, all four of them, all four of the
5:43
Speaker 3: beautiful rings, right where they belong.
5:46
Speaker 1: Nice. Okay, I didn't see that.
5:48
Speaker 2: Question Number four for Chris Jenkins, your coach at Michigan
5:51
Speaker 2: was Jim Harbaugh. Tremendous coach now with the LA Chargers,
5:55
Speaker 2: but famously quirky.
5:57
Speaker 1: Do you have a best Jim Harbaugh story?
5:59
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think I want to say his really, his
6:02
Speaker 3: workout stories are the best stories for me because you
6:04
Speaker 3: wouldn't expect it, like say, whatever you're wearing now, whatever
6:07
Speaker 3: I'm wearing now plus a polo plus a cap khakis.
6:11
Speaker 3: He's he's working like that at six am. It don't
6:13
Speaker 3: matter if we're getting in the if coach, our strength
6:16
Speaker 3: coach told us to get in the cold top submerge,
6:19
Speaker 3: you know, as a mental test before we do a workout.
6:21
Speaker 3: He would do that in the khakis and a polo
6:23
Speaker 3: before not working at it. Both like, that's that's his
6:26
Speaker 3: type of versity, and that's what we fell in love with,
6:28
Speaker 3: you know, you know, being at Michigan because you know
6:30
Speaker 3: you're gonna you're gonna.
6:31
Speaker 1: Do that cold top in the khakis. Absolutely, that is fantastic.
6:35
Speaker 1: I wish there was a video of.
6:36
Speaker 2: That on the end ofnet all right, fifth and final question,
6:39
Speaker 2: tell us something about you that not many people know.
6:44
Speaker 3: Really probably not a lot of people know, But I'm
6:46
Speaker 3: an anime lover. I'm really just a nerd in general,
6:50
Speaker 3: huge nerd, Like I got comic book collection at the crib,
6:53
Speaker 3: you know that I've had since I was like young,
6:54
Speaker 3: in like a ten year old. So you know, when
6:57
Speaker 3: I'm off the field, I'm really just like i'd say,
6:59
Speaker 3: like a giant dork and a big football jock's body.
7:01
Speaker 3: Like me and me on and off the field are
7:03
Speaker 3: kind of two completely different people. But at the same time,
7:06
Speaker 3: you know, like it's yeah, I'm just I'm just a
7:09
Speaker 3: nerd for real, for real, legos all that.
7:11
Speaker 1: Oh my kid, loves lego.
7:12
Speaker 2: Do you remember former NFL defensive lineman Mike Daniels, mostly
7:17
Speaker 2: of the Packers, a little bit with the Bengals, Absolutely,
7:19
Speaker 2: a little bit.
7:20
Speaker 3: If I'm if I'm not mistaken, I think he might
7:23
Speaker 3: have played with my uncle for the time.
7:26
Speaker 2: Well, I bring it up because he was a huge
7:27
Speaker 2: anime guy. So you're not the only NFL defensive tackle
7:31
Speaker 2: who loves animating.
7:32
Speaker 3: Okay, No, that's what's up. Nah, that's what's up. Then
7:34
Speaker 3: we definitely gonna have to collab at some point on anime,
7:37
Speaker 3: you know, at least in the off season, at least
7:39
Speaker 3: when we know you feel me during in season. We
7:41
Speaker 3: gotta we gotta take our business.
7:43
Speaker 1: All right.
7:43
Speaker 2: The mutant is off the hot seat. I appreciate your time.
7:46
Speaker 2: Look forward to gtting to know you better.
7:47
Speaker 3: Yes, appreciate you. Thank you for having me, Thank you
7:49
Speaker 3: very much.
7:51
Speaker 2: So the Turkish get up is not the only evidence
7:54
Speaker 2: that Chris Jenkins is a physical freak. His forty yard dash,
7:58
Speaker 2: broad jump, and then press numbers were all graded as
8:02
Speaker 2: elite by a guy that many of you have undoubtedly
8:05
Speaker 2: heard of, Kent Lee Platt, the inventor of raz Or
8:10
Speaker 2: relative athletic score that takes many of the things that
8:13
Speaker 2: are measured at the combine like height, weight, forty times,
8:18
Speaker 2: vertical leap, etc. And combines them to form one number
8:22
Speaker 2: on a scale of one to ten. Jenkins RAS score
8:26
Speaker 2: was eight point nine to nine, which is very high
8:29
Speaker 2: for a defensive tackle. I caught up with Kent this
8:32
Speaker 2: week to discuss his work and what it tells us
8:35
Speaker 2: about the Bengals. Can't you are described on the internet
8:40
Speaker 2: as a map chunkie and a football nerd?
8:43
Speaker 1: Is that accurate?
8:45
Speaker 4: That's very accurate. That's what I go for.
8:48
Speaker 1: I love it.
8:49
Speaker 2: So give us a description for how our as relative
8:53
Speaker 2: athletic score came about.
8:56
Speaker 4: So I started rasback in twenty thirteen. This was the
8:59
Speaker 4: Leveon Beld. It wasn't just Leveon Bell, but he was
9:02
Speaker 4: kind of the catalyst, like that turning point that really
9:05
Speaker 4: made me want to go through with doing something about it.
9:08
Speaker 4: But at the time he had run a four to
9:10
Speaker 4: six in the forty yard dash and the entire argument
9:13
Speaker 4: about him going into the draft that year was about
9:17
Speaker 4: how unathletic Leveon Bell was and I just did not
9:20
Speaker 4: It just didn't track with what the data actually said.
9:24
Speaker 4: And I'd been looking at the data for a while,
9:25
Speaker 4: so I knew that, but just the fact that that
9:27
Speaker 4: was the whole argument was he ran a bad forty.
9:29
Speaker 4: He's unathletic. You're talking about the guy that was two
9:32
Speaker 4: hundred and thirty pounds as a running back, and he
9:34
Speaker 4: had a six seventy five to three cone, which is
9:36
Speaker 4: one of the better three cones you can possibly get
9:38
Speaker 4: for any physician, let alone a two hundred and thirty
9:40
Speaker 4: pounds running back. So the idea that we use all
9:44
Speaker 4: those terms that don't really mean anything if they don't
9:46
Speaker 4: have any context behind him. I wanted to add a
9:48
Speaker 4: little bit of that context. So I developed a system
9:51
Speaker 4: that puts all of those testing numbers on a zero
9:53
Speaker 4: to ten scale compared to the player's position group, dating
9:57
Speaker 4: back all the way back into nineteen eighty seven until
9:59
Speaker 4: the player draft year. Everything is stop light color coded again,
10:03
Speaker 4: because it's easy, it's accessible. The intention is that anybody
10:07
Speaker 4: can look at these scores and kind of understand what
10:09
Speaker 4: they mean and what they're for. And it's been a
10:12
Speaker 4: lot of fun and I feel like people have enjoyed
10:14
Speaker 4: it so far.
10:15
Speaker 2: There's no questions that fans enjoy it. Have you gotten
10:18
Speaker 2: feedback from NFL teams.
10:21
Speaker 4: So NFL teams all have their own dedicated analytics departments,
10:23
Speaker 4: They've got their own teams of personnel, they have access
10:26
Speaker 4: to data that we will never have access to. What
10:29
Speaker 4: RAZ provides is a useful analog to what a lot
10:33
Speaker 4: of the NFL teams are using. It's similar to what
10:35
Speaker 4: they use and close enough for some teams that it's
10:38
Speaker 4: virtually indistinguishable. I do talk to scouts fairly regularly, and
10:43
Speaker 4: usually for them when they're coming to me for data,
10:46
Speaker 4: it's just like, hey, I want to see if these
10:48
Speaker 4: two guys are comparable, or hey, can you check and
10:51
Speaker 4: see how many guys fell within this range for forty
10:55
Speaker 4: yard dash at this weight or something like that. It's
10:58
Speaker 4: usually little requests like that. Because I have such good
11:01
Speaker 4: data availability, it's easier to get at my data than
11:04
Speaker 4: a lot of the teams still have. But generally they
11:07
Speaker 4: all have their own stuff that they've been using for years,
11:09
Speaker 4: and this is just similar enough to it.
11:12
Speaker 2: And it seems to me that fans are most interested
11:14
Speaker 2: in RAS in association with the draft. Is that the
11:17
Speaker 2: case for you or are you using it now in
11:20
Speaker 2: other ways as well?
11:22
Speaker 4: I use it for all kinds of stuff outside of
11:24
Speaker 4: not even just the draft, but the NFL, NFL players,
11:28
Speaker 4: college college players that are going to the NFL. They
11:30
Speaker 4: don't really need guys like me to advertise for them,
11:33
Speaker 4: right they don't. They don't need me to go out
11:35
Speaker 4: there and talk about how athletic these guys are. Everyone knows.
11:38
Speaker 4: Everybody can watch it. They're going to get talked about
11:40
Speaker 4: for months leading up to the draft. I do some
11:43
Speaker 4: work with high school students that are trying to get
11:45
Speaker 4: into college. Those guys don't get any anybody to advocate
11:48
Speaker 4: for them. There isn't really a good way to propose
11:50
Speaker 4: or to show the kind of testing that they have.
11:53
Speaker 4: I've been working on that for a couple of years
11:55
Speaker 4: and have made some pretty good headways in doing that
11:57
Speaker 4: and using the metrics in a way that kind of
11:59
Speaker 4: helps high schole students get their names out there. But generally,
12:03
Speaker 4: when it comes to the stuff that's for that's that's
12:05
Speaker 4: like public facing. It's all draft stuff and just looking
12:09
Speaker 4: at neat trends. I mean, I'll do stuff at free
12:11
Speaker 4: agency and other times of the year just because it's fun,
12:15
Speaker 4: Like it's just fun to do that. Does it really
12:17
Speaker 4: matter what a guy tested? Eight nine years ago, but
12:21
Speaker 4: when he came out of the drafts on his second
12:22
Speaker 4: free agency period. No, no, it doesn't matter at all.
12:25
Speaker 4: But it's still fun, you know, it's always good to
12:27
Speaker 4: look back on that stuff and see what's up.
12:29
Speaker 2: We're going to get to the Bengals here in a second.
12:31
Speaker 2: But are there positions where RAZ judges success best and
12:36
Speaker 2: others where it doesn't.
12:38
Speaker 4: Absolutely, tight end is always the one that we bring up.
12:42
Speaker 4: It has one of the cleanest correlations to success for
12:45
Speaker 4: any position, just because it's just one of those positions
12:48
Speaker 4: where you've got to be athletic to win. Every other
12:51
Speaker 4: position has at least one player who has found success
12:56
Speaker 4: in the NFL just despite testing poorly. Tight end doesn't
12:59
Speaker 4: have that. Since since the year two thousand, there's only
13:02
Speaker 4: been one player who had a poor RAZ at tight
13:04
Speaker 4: end who still found reasonable success in the NFL, and
13:07
Speaker 4: it was Jordan Reed, who barely qualified for RAZ because
13:12
Speaker 4: of injury, which was ultimately the story of a good
13:15
Speaker 4: portion of Jordan Reid's career. But every single tight end
13:19
Speaker 4: since the year two thousand has been either a well
13:22
Speaker 4: above average athlete or an elite tier athlete. And you
13:25
Speaker 4: see that every single year. Anytime that guys come out.
13:28
Speaker 4: It's never a good sign on a tight end test poorly. Consequently,
13:32
Speaker 4: you look at the other side and you have guys
13:33
Speaker 4: like our positions like quarterback, where a lot of the
13:36
Speaker 4: skills that make a good quarterback aren't what we're testing
13:39
Speaker 4: with the drills that go into RAZ. If a quarterback
13:43
Speaker 4: is a pocket passer, pretty much none of those metrics
13:45
Speaker 4: are going to matter. You can argue that the cone might,
13:48
Speaker 4: you can argue that the shuttle might, but generally those
13:51
Speaker 4: drills don't really mean a whole lot for the success
13:53
Speaker 4: of a quarterback. While the math says that there's a
13:56
Speaker 4: correlation with center, I've found that there's a lot of
14:00
Speaker 4: NFL centers who have tested poorly and still found NFL success.
14:03
Speaker 4: I generally chalked that up to being just a more
14:05
Speaker 4: cerebral position. You know, you're paying attention more to what
14:09
Speaker 4: a guy has north of the neckline than the general athleticism.
14:12
Speaker 4: The math still tells us that there's a strong correlation there,
14:15
Speaker 4: but there's enough guys that have tested poorly and found
14:17
Speaker 4: success that it's notable to look at that position a
14:20
Speaker 4: little differently.
14:21
Speaker 2: Our guest is Kent Lee Platt. He is the creator
14:24
Speaker 2: of RAS Relative Athletics Score, and he is a great
14:27
Speaker 2: X follow at math bomb. Yes math bomb, you can
14:32
Speaker 2: see his data online as well at rasis dot football.
14:38
Speaker 2: Let's take a look at the Bengals draft class, beginning
14:40
Speaker 2: with their first pick, number eighteen, overall offensive lineman A
14:44
Speaker 2: Marius Mims. He had an Elite RAS score of nine
14:47
Speaker 2: point five nine on a scale up to ten. After
14:50
Speaker 2: the pick, you sent out the following tweet, I'm very
14:54
Speaker 2: happy for Bengals fans as their team took their first
14:58
Speaker 2: Elite RAS offense linemen in a decade. This seems to
15:03
Speaker 2: be something that you've been following for a while where
15:05
Speaker 2: the Bengals are concerned.
15:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not just the Bengals. The overall athleticism on
15:10
Speaker 4: the offensive line was a big deal for me when
15:12
Speaker 4: I first started RAZ because I'm a Lions fan. I
15:16
Speaker 4: follow the Lions. That's my team, and the Lions had
15:19
Speaker 4: one of the least athletic offensive lines in the NFL
15:23
Speaker 4: for for years and years and years, and right around
15:27
Speaker 4: there with them was the Bengals. They were also there
15:29
Speaker 4: with a very unathletic offensive line. The Lions eventually got
15:34
Speaker 4: away from that. They switched general managers they changed their
15:37
Speaker 4: focus a little bit when it came to drafting athletes
15:39
Speaker 4: on the offensive line, but the Bengals never did and
15:41
Speaker 4: it bled into their free agency signings. The type of
15:44
Speaker 4: guys they brought into free agency, it's like they were
15:46
Speaker 4: actively avoiding anyone who could move. And I've had a
15:51
Speaker 4: lot of good laughs. I have a lot of friends
15:52
Speaker 4: that are Bengals fans, and I've been doing this for
15:54
Speaker 4: a while and we've had a lot of really good
15:56
Speaker 4: laughs joking about just how extreme it was, because it's
16:01
Speaker 4: not a small difference. I mean, they're they're on average
16:04
Speaker 4: like three or four points lower on a scale of
16:07
Speaker 4: zero to ten, like three or four points lower than
16:09
Speaker 4: the next worst team in general. So they just just
16:13
Speaker 4: an extreme outlier in that regard. But they drafted a
16:16
Speaker 4: couple of guys in this draft class, and coming from
16:20
Speaker 4: what they've been doing for the last decade and seeing
16:22
Speaker 4: them finally change that has got to be a little
16:24
Speaker 4: bit of a breath of fresh air.
16:26
Speaker 2: So you're right, there's seventh rounder Matt Lee also had
16:29
Speaker 2: a very high eras score. Have you found historically that
16:35
Speaker 2: the higher rated offensive lines in terms of rushing yard
16:39
Speaker 2: sacks allowed, et cetera.
16:40
Speaker 1: Have higher RAS scores.
16:43
Speaker 4: Generally, it's more it's a better indicator of individual performance
16:46
Speaker 4: than it is group. Anytime you look at an average,
16:49
Speaker 4: especially when you only have a couple of a couple
16:51
Speaker 4: of numbers, right so there's only five players on an
16:53
Speaker 4: offensive line, one bad score can really throw off the average,
16:58
Speaker 4: so overall looking that you don't really see that. Now,
17:02
Speaker 4: as far as a general trend, two of the teams
17:04
Speaker 4: that are generally add or near the top are the
17:07
Speaker 4: Chiefs and the Eagles. Those are generally very good teams
17:09
Speaker 4: and they usually have good offensive lines. The Indianapolis Colts
17:13
Speaker 4: have been up and down with their offensive line performance,
17:16
Speaker 4: but they're consistently one of the highest athletic offensive lines
17:20
Speaker 4: in the NFL. So there are some general trends that
17:23
Speaker 4: we can get from it, but we also know that
17:26
Speaker 4: it has to do a little bit with scheme as well.
17:28
Speaker 4: A few years ago, when the Raiders had a good
17:31
Speaker 4: offensive line, that wasn't a very athletic offensive line, but
17:34
Speaker 4: they were also very power heavy. They were all about
17:37
Speaker 4: those big people movers that can just bully people around.
17:40
Speaker 4: So it was very much a schematic choice for them
17:43
Speaker 4: to do that. And when you have teams that follow
17:47
Speaker 4: what the Eagles have been doing for the last fifteen
17:49
Speaker 4: or twenty years. They've been doing it for a long time,
17:51
Speaker 4: and you're trying to find those guys that have all
17:53
Speaker 4: that athleticism. They can move, they can pull along the
17:56
Speaker 4: offensive line. It just opens up a lot of what
17:59
Speaker 4: you can do. Statistically speaking, its correlates better the further
18:05
Speaker 4: on the outside of the offensive line that you are.
18:07
Speaker 4: Tackles have a bigger correlation than guards. Guards have a
18:10
Speaker 4: bigger correlation than center. But you just want athletes when
18:14
Speaker 4: you can get them.
18:16
Speaker 2: So if the Bengals have not historically drafted offensive lineman
18:19
Speaker 2: with high RAZ scores, what about other positions historically?
18:24
Speaker 4: I know that they've they've they've went up and down
18:26
Speaker 4: for wide receivers, but kind of at the extreme. So
18:29
Speaker 4: Jamar Chase was one of the most athletic wide receivers
18:32
Speaker 4: of all time. But then you have guys like T
18:35
Speaker 4: Higgins who didn't test all that well. I actually had
18:38
Speaker 4: a whole thread on t Higgins before he was drafted
18:40
Speaker 4: about how you know, RAZ is really good at at
18:43
Speaker 4: identifying general trends, but there's certain players who have a
18:46
Speaker 4: style of play where it doesn't necessarily illustrate what they're
18:50
Speaker 4: good at. We saw it with Ceedee Lamb, we saw
18:52
Speaker 4: it with Calvin Ridley. We've seen it with my favorite one,
18:56
Speaker 4: An Kwan Bolden, who you know, for An Kwon Bolden,
18:59
Speaker 4: it didn't matter that he wasn't fast or explosive or quick,
19:02
Speaker 4: because if the ball was in the air, it was
19:03
Speaker 4: his football and you had to beat him for it,
19:06
Speaker 4: and most of the time you were losing that fight.
19:08
Speaker 4: You know. With t Higgins, he mostly used his length.
19:12
Speaker 4: He was very adept at boxing players out by using
19:15
Speaker 4: his body and using that control that he had over
19:19
Speaker 4: his size and his length to do a lot of
19:21
Speaker 4: the work for him. It doesn't matter that he didn't
19:24
Speaker 4: run a great forty times because he's not a burner
19:26
Speaker 4: that's trying to outrun everybody. He's using his body and
19:29
Speaker 4: his size to get rid of people. As long as
19:31
Speaker 4: he's not slow, you're fine. And he isn't slow. You know,
19:34
Speaker 4: he tested decent with speed, So sometimes it doesn't really
19:37
Speaker 4: matter as much. If you're looking at the style of play,
19:40
Speaker 4: the Bengals have primarily paid attention to defensive guys on
19:44
Speaker 4: the defensive side, or sorry athletic guys on the defensive
19:47
Speaker 4: side of the ball. They haven't really paid as much
19:49
Speaker 4: obviously the offensive line, and then I said they mixed
19:51
Speaker 4: it up a bit both at running back and at
19:54
Speaker 4: wide receiver. They've done that, so mostly they they paid
19:57
Speaker 4: attention to defense, which could just be keeping up in
20:00
Speaker 4: division because the Steelers have done the same thing, the
20:03
Speaker 4: Ravens have done the same thing, and you really can't
20:06
Speaker 4: let yourself fall behind in a competitive division.
20:10
Speaker 2: So that's a very good segue into my next question,
20:12
Speaker 2: because one member of this year's draft class had a
20:15
Speaker 2: very poor ras score, and that is three hundred and
20:17
Speaker 2: twenty six pound nose tackle McKinley Jackson, the second of
20:21
Speaker 2: their two third round picks. But you tweeted that his
20:24
Speaker 2: score is fine for a nose tackle.
20:27
Speaker 1: Why.
20:28
Speaker 4: Yeah. So the ras US is traditional NFL positional alignments,
20:32
Speaker 4: which it means the defensive tackles but not nose tackle
20:35
Speaker 4: and defensive end but not necessarily edge, which kind of
20:39
Speaker 4: puts us a little bit behind. And I am working
20:41
Speaker 4: on updating that a little bit, modernizing a little bit,
20:43
Speaker 4: But when it comes to nose tackles, you're kind of
20:45
Speaker 4: just looking at the overall testing and saying is this
20:48
Speaker 4: guy such a terrible athlete that he can't stand there
20:51
Speaker 4: and push guys around. You know, nose tackles don't need
20:55
Speaker 4: to run well. They don't run forty yards. They don't
20:58
Speaker 4: even run ten yards most plays. They don't need to
21:01
Speaker 4: be quick or agile. It's great if they are. See
21:04
Speaker 4: all these things are bonuses if they have them, But
21:05
Speaker 4: they don't need to be a quick and agile guy
21:08
Speaker 4: if you're a nose tackle, because that's not how you're
21:11
Speaker 4: moving on a football field. So it doesn't matter if
21:13
Speaker 4: you don't test well there. When you have a nose tackle,
21:16
Speaker 4: you want them to weigh a good amount. Obviously they're big.
21:19
Speaker 4: Size is a big deal for them. He weighs three
21:22
Speaker 4: hundred and twenty six pounds over ninetieth percentile for a
21:24
Speaker 4: defensive tackle. That's great. You got the weight, you're good.
21:27
Speaker 4: You want them to be strong. He had a twenty
21:29
Speaker 4: four bench, which is kind of average, but he's got
21:31
Speaker 4: longer arms so that an average bench is perfectly fine.
21:35
Speaker 4: You would prefer that they have a good broad jump.
21:38
Speaker 4: Bigger guys that can propel themselves forward quickly and with
21:41
Speaker 4: a lot of power. That's a big bonus when you
21:45
Speaker 4: have a guy that's playing on the defensive line and
21:47
Speaker 4: nose tackles that can do that. That's a lot of
21:49
Speaker 4: weight to move forward with, so even having it just
21:52
Speaker 4: above average broad jump is important, and he did for that,
21:56
Speaker 4: and then of course the ten yard split for the
21:58
Speaker 4: exact same reason. You want a guy that can explode
22:00
Speaker 4: out of his stands and use that lower body power
22:04
Speaker 4: to provide force for the rest of his body. He
22:06
Speaker 4: can do that just fine. McKinley. Jackson didn't test well
22:10
Speaker 4: as a defensive tackle. He's not an interior pass rusher.
22:13
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter that he didn't well test well for
22:16
Speaker 4: the same way it doesn't matter that he didn't test
22:17
Speaker 4: well for a receiver. He's not playing that position.
22:21
Speaker 1: Let's hope not now.
22:22
Speaker 2: One player that really stood out to me in terms
22:25
Speaker 2: of his RAS score was the Bengals' second sixth round pick,
22:29
Speaker 2: edge rusher Cedric Johnson. He's a little undersized six three
22:34
Speaker 2: two sixty but had a thirty eight inch vertical ran
22:38
Speaker 2: a four to six three forty. Is that exactly what
22:42
Speaker 2: a team should be looking for in a late sixth
22:45
Speaker 2: round pick. Somebody with measurables like that, quote unquote, A
22:49
Speaker 2: potential diamond in the rock.
22:51
Speaker 4: Absolutely, especially for guys late pass rushers, and I mentioned
22:54
Speaker 4: tight ends earlier on the other side of the ball,
22:57
Speaker 4: that's defensive ends. Those are the types of guys that
22:59
Speaker 4: fall into that category. You want those elite tier athletes.
23:02
Speaker 4: And I've posted threads on it every year about the
23:05
Speaker 4: top sack artists in the NFL, and it is rare
23:09
Speaker 4: that we have a guy with below average testing. It's
23:11
Speaker 4: rare that we have a guy with below elite testing
23:14
Speaker 4: who becomes a double digit sack guy in the NFL.
23:18
Speaker 4: You generally want from a broad perspective, not looking at
23:21
Speaker 4: play style or anything. You want a player that tests
23:23
Speaker 4: really well for agility, and Johnson didn't test well for agility.
23:27
Speaker 4: But that's a broad assumption. Right Again, these positional alignments
23:31
Speaker 4: are not perfect. They're based on pretty outdated concepts. If
23:35
Speaker 4: you have a defensive lineman who is very explosive. You
23:38
Speaker 4: mentioned his vert which was ninety six percentile. He has
23:42
Speaker 4: an almost ninetieth percentile broad jump as well, so very
23:45
Speaker 4: good testing from an explosiveness standpoint, and then he has
23:48
Speaker 4: that speed. That's a guy that can burst off the line.
23:51
Speaker 4: He can use that lower body explosiveness and get off
23:54
Speaker 4: out of his stance very quickly, and he can get
23:56
Speaker 4: up to speed quickly, which is great for pursuit trying
23:59
Speaker 4: to get after the quarterback. Those are all translatable skills,
24:02
Speaker 4: things that you see on a football field. So having
24:04
Speaker 4: traits in that area means there's something there you can develop,
24:08
Speaker 4: something you can work with. Smart teams recognize that and
24:12
Speaker 4: pay attention to it.
24:13
Speaker 2: Our guest has Kent Lee plapped the creative Relative Athletics score.
24:17
Speaker 2: You can and should be following him on x at
24:21
Speaker 2: math bomb. He shares a lot of great data and
24:23
Speaker 2: it's free. Give us your overall impressions of this year's
24:27
Speaker 2: draft class. We've obviously covered a few of the guys,
24:29
Speaker 2: but how about the Bengals class top to bottom.
24:32
Speaker 4: So I already mentioned that I'm very excited that the
24:35
Speaker 4: Bengals are taking a step forward in terms of their
24:37
Speaker 4: offensive line. From an overall athletic standpoint, I think they
24:41
Speaker 4: ranked twenty twenty fourth. There's not a lot of separation
24:44
Speaker 4: when you're ranking, and like this same reason I mentioned
24:46
Speaker 4: before for averaging, it's small numbers in your averaging, so
24:49
Speaker 4: there's not going to be a huge huge difference overall,
24:52
Speaker 4: but generally they went for really strong athletes, and the
24:55
Speaker 4: guys that they took that weren't elite athletes had some
24:58
Speaker 4: elite traits. Tanner McLachlan from Arizona there I think that
25:02
Speaker 4: was another six or seventh round pick. Didn't have elite agility,
25:06
Speaker 4: which is what kept his score from being above that
25:09
Speaker 4: eight elite mark, but he has great speed. You want
25:12
Speaker 4: a guy that can run up the seam cool he's
25:14
Speaker 4: he's got that trade, he's a thing. There's a thing
25:16
Speaker 4: that he can do at an elite level that provides
25:19
Speaker 4: an opportunity for the team to use him to contribute.
25:23
Speaker 4: Not everybody's going to be an All star, and you
25:24
Speaker 4: shouldn't expect them all to be All pros. But if
25:27
Speaker 4: you can contribute from day one, or have those developmental
25:30
Speaker 4: traits that you can contribute long term, then the team
25:33
Speaker 4: can find value for you rather quickly. And getting guys
25:38
Speaker 4: with strong athletic traits, even if it's specialized in areas,
25:41
Speaker 4: is very smart. It's a very very wise way to
25:44
Speaker 4: approach the draft. Guys that don't test well, they've got
25:47
Speaker 4: to have something else to make up for it. They've
25:49
Speaker 4: got They're going to be going up against guys that
25:51
Speaker 4: are way more athletic than them, so they've got to
25:53
Speaker 4: have some other trait that sets them apart. The Bengals
25:58
Speaker 4: very much just avoided having to make decision with their
26:01
Speaker 4: class this year. They didn't take anybody where they'd have
26:03
Speaker 4: to go, Okay, well is this guy going to be
26:05
Speaker 4: an exception? They don't need to worry about it. They
26:07
Speaker 4: didn't take any exceptions. They just took a bunch of
26:09
Speaker 4: really good athletes and called it a day.
26:11
Speaker 2: How do the Bengals compare to their opponents in the
26:14
Speaker 2: AFC North the Steelers, Ravens, and Browns.
26:17
Speaker 4: So the Steelers, I know, have been trying to get
26:20
Speaker 4: a little bit more defensive on there, are a little
26:22
Speaker 4: bit more athletic on their defense. They've they've had a
26:24
Speaker 4: few a few weaker picks on that side of the
26:27
Speaker 4: ball over the last few years and they've been trying
26:29
Speaker 4: to make up for it. They've generally gotten better there.
26:33
Speaker 4: The Browns have been a little bit up and down
26:35
Speaker 4: with some of that stuff, but they've overall been pretty
26:38
Speaker 4: analytics focused for several years. I mean, they went through
26:41
Speaker 4: what fourteen GMS or something like that. Eventually something had
26:44
Speaker 4: to stick right, But generally they kind of looked at
26:48
Speaker 4: the Ravens are always a difficult team to evaluate because
26:52
Speaker 4: they're they're so they have such a different approach to
26:55
Speaker 4: talent evaluation than any other team in the NFL. So
26:58
Speaker 4: sometimes they will take big, big swings on guys with
27:01
Speaker 4: lower athletic testing. They didn't really do that this year.
27:04
Speaker 4: They tended to focus on on athletes, so did the Browns,
27:07
Speaker 4: so did the Steelers. Overall, the conference as a whole
27:12
Speaker 4: and the division as a whole spent a lot of
27:15
Speaker 4: time trying to find those those top athletes, and that
27:18
Speaker 4: means it's competitive. That means that you're fighting with people
27:20
Speaker 4: who are looking for the same thing. So they're they're
27:23
Speaker 4: all trying to get a bit more fast, a bit
27:25
Speaker 4: more explosive.
27:27
Speaker 2: Looking at the Bengals current roster andre Yosi, Bosh had
27:30
Speaker 2: the highest RAZ at nine point nine to six, which
27:35
Speaker 2: makes sense since he is a world class heptathlete. I
27:39
Speaker 2: imagine that was kind of a fun one to study
27:41
Speaker 2: coming out of Princeton.
27:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, any anytime you get those guys that are that
27:46
Speaker 4: are and I'm using the term it sounds kind of derived,
27:49
Speaker 4: but are just athletes, right, That's that's their whole calling
27:51
Speaker 4: card is the fact that they are extremely strong athletically.
27:56
Speaker 4: It's always exciting to watch those guys grow because it's
27:59
Speaker 4: it is a big risk to take a swing on
28:02
Speaker 4: guys like that. I don't think it's as big of
28:03
Speaker 4: a risk. I actually know some people who who have
28:06
Speaker 4: worked with him and have coached with have coached him,
28:10
Speaker 4: and none of them think that he's this developmental, long
28:14
Speaker 4: term thing. They all believe that he's a guy that
28:16
Speaker 4: can step in and start and start working right away
28:19
Speaker 4: and contribute right away. But when you're looking at it
28:22
Speaker 4: from a broader perspective, you're looking at a guy with
28:25
Speaker 4: all of the traits that you need, not one or two,
28:27
Speaker 4: all of the traits you need to be a successful
28:31
Speaker 4: wide receiver in the NFL, and you give yourself that
28:34
Speaker 4: little playing piece that you can start working into your offense,
28:37
Speaker 4: that you can start trying to find, Okay, what can
28:39
Speaker 4: we do with that? What can we do with a
28:40
Speaker 4: guy that has this size, the speed, this explosiveness, this agility,
28:44
Speaker 4: What can we do to get him more involved. It's
28:47
Speaker 4: always exciting to watch those guys and see how it
28:49
Speaker 4: works out. Sometimes it's a little messy, but sometimes you
28:54
Speaker 4: get guys you don't expect to be as good as
28:57
Speaker 4: they are. Jason Peters was a tight end coming up
29:00
Speaker 4: by college. He was an undrafted tight end who went
29:02
Speaker 4: on to become one of the best offensive tackles in
29:05
Speaker 4: NFL history. Sometimes you take those swings and they work out,
29:08
Speaker 4: and using mid late round picks on guys like that
29:12
Speaker 4: is a good, good idea to go ahead and take
29:15
Speaker 4: those swings.
29:16
Speaker 2: So this offseason, the Chiefs picked up Hollywood Brown. They
29:21
Speaker 2: drafted Xavier Worthy, who set the forty yard dash record
29:25
Speaker 2: at the combine. I'm half convinced that they're going to
29:28
Speaker 2: sign you Saint Bolt tomorrow. It seems like anybody that
29:31
Speaker 2: can run that fast is going to be a Kansas
29:33
Speaker 2: City Chief. Do they stand out as the most athletic
29:37
Speaker 2: team in the NFL? Or are they high on the list?
29:39
Speaker 2: What do you find in looking at Kansas City over
29:42
Speaker 2: the years.
29:43
Speaker 4: I don't think they've been number one in any draft
29:46
Speaker 4: in a while, but they're always very high up there.
29:49
Speaker 4: They're either a top five or top ten team pretty
29:51
Speaker 4: much every year, and that kind of predates Andy Reid.
29:55
Speaker 4: That's not something that was specific just to Andy Reid.
29:58
Speaker 4: It's something they've been doing through multiple, multiple leadership groups.
30:03
Speaker 4: But they they are very much at the top of
30:05
Speaker 4: the NFL when it comes to selecting athletes. They were
30:08
Speaker 4: a top five team this year. Actually they might have
30:12
Speaker 4: think they might have been two. They're they're very very high,
30:15
Speaker 4: whichever it was. They, like you said, they want fast guys.
30:19
Speaker 4: They know who they are, they know what they want
30:21
Speaker 4: to do. They look for the guys that do those
30:23
Speaker 4: things and that that thing just happens to be very
30:26
Speaker 4: fast on offense. So, like you said, if a guy
30:30
Speaker 4: runs fast, he's a he's a candidate to be a chief.
30:33
Speaker 2: Are there any misconceptions about raz.
30:36
Speaker 3: Yes, lots.
30:38
Speaker 4: One of the biggest things that comes up is is
30:40
Speaker 4: how we chart like success or how likely guys are
30:43
Speaker 4: to be successful. A guy testing well doesn't mean that
30:46
Speaker 4: he's going to be successful in the NFL, and it
30:48
Speaker 4: doesn't even really mean that he is likely to be
30:51
Speaker 4: successful in the NFL. Most NFL prospects fail and it's
30:57
Speaker 4: I discussed it every year, but it's just really hard
30:59
Speaker 4: to wrap your around sometimes that there's about two hundred
31:02
Speaker 4: and fifty players that are drafted every year, and of
31:05
Speaker 4: those two hundred and fifty, maybe ten percent will become
31:08
Speaker 4: starters in the NFL, so maybe twenty players something like that.
31:12
Speaker 4: There are over two thousand players in every draft. It's
31:16
Speaker 4: generally about twenty two to twenty five hundred players in
31:19
Speaker 4: every draft. Most of those players won't get drafted. Most
31:23
Speaker 4: of those players will never see an NFL field, They'll
31:25
Speaker 4: never be in an NFL training camp, whether or not
31:29
Speaker 4: they tested well. So when you start looking at things
31:32
Speaker 4: like RAZ, you're looking at what are the successful players
31:35
Speaker 4: in the NFL and what common traits do they share
31:38
Speaker 4: with NFL prospects.
31:40
Speaker 3: And that is.
31:40
Speaker 4: Generally where you find your athletes, your guys like Amarius
31:43
Speaker 4: Mims who have all these very strong athletic traits that
31:47
Speaker 4: line up very well with players who have been successful previously,
31:51
Speaker 4: and if they test well, you look at how they
31:53
Speaker 4: win on the football field. And this is where the
31:56
Speaker 4: biggest misconception is, which is that I'm just the numbers guy, right,
32:00
Speaker 4: and I'm all, it's just the numbers, and that's it.
32:03
Speaker 4: RAZ is meant to be a part of an evaluation.
32:05
Speaker 4: It is not the evaluation. You should never start and
32:08
Speaker 4: stop with RAZ. It should always be a piece of
32:11
Speaker 4: that puzzle. And if you're looking at a guy that
32:14
Speaker 4: tests really well. That's obviously a positive thing, but if
32:17
Speaker 4: it doesn't show up on a football field, you have
32:19
Speaker 4: to ask yourself, why while why am I not seeing
32:22
Speaker 4: those athletic traits? And sometimes it's attitude. Sometimes they just
32:25
Speaker 4: they just check out. They don't really care that much
32:28
Speaker 4: about football, they don't want to be out there. Sometimes
32:30
Speaker 4: it's technique. Danielle Hunter is one of my favorite examples
32:33
Speaker 4: for that because he had none in college. He had
32:36
Speaker 4: I think three total sacks in his career something like
32:39
Speaker 4: that when he was in college. A perennial double digit
32:42
Speaker 4: sack guy now, but he had all those athletic traits,
32:45
Speaker 4: and the Vikings were smart enough to look at that
32:48
Speaker 4: and say, Okay, there's a lot that we can work with.
32:50
Speaker 4: He just needs to do things with his arms. He's
32:52
Speaker 4: got to learn how to use his arms. You know,
32:55
Speaker 4: you've got to be able to marry the testing with
32:58
Speaker 4: the tape, and you've got to have you got I
33:00
Speaker 4: have that gumption to be able to look at a
33:01
Speaker 4: player's testing, whether it's very poor or very good, and
33:05
Speaker 4: if it doesn't match the tape, you've got to be
33:07
Speaker 4: able to say to yourself, I am comfortable drafting this
33:10
Speaker 4: player or I am not regardless of the testing, but
33:13
Speaker 4: you need to acknowledge that, you need to be aware
33:16
Speaker 4: that that's a thing that you're doing, because if you
33:18
Speaker 4: just ignore the numbers, you're going to make mistakes. We
33:21
Speaker 4: see it every year with some of the guys that
33:23
Speaker 4: get drafted, and you always hear people say, oh, you
33:26
Speaker 4: can't measure heart, and yeah, that's I mean, that's true,
33:29
Speaker 4: but it's not inversely proportional to athletic ability. Guys. Guys
33:33
Speaker 4: still got to be able to move, you know.
33:36
Speaker 2: So you take all of these things that are measured
33:38
Speaker 2: at the combine and at players pro day's height, weight,
33:42
Speaker 2: forty time, bench press, broad jump, vertical, three cone drill,
33:47
Speaker 2: et cetera, and combine it into one easy to understand number.
33:52
Speaker 2: But having said all that, do you think that any
33:56
Speaker 2: of those tests is most important?
33:59
Speaker 4: Not for every position. I think for individual types of players,
34:04
Speaker 4: there are some that very much stand out. There's some
34:06
Speaker 4: broad generalizations that you can make the shuttle drill and
34:10
Speaker 4: offensive lineman. If you have a very elite shuttle time
34:14
Speaker 4: four or five or below, there is a very high
34:17
Speaker 4: probability you're going to be an NFL starter. Whether you're
34:21
Speaker 4: drafted in the first round or drafted in the seventh
34:23
Speaker 4: there's a very high probability you're going to end up
34:25
Speaker 4: starting in the NFL. Very hard to ignore when the
34:28
Speaker 4: data lines up that cleanly. For pass rushers, if you
34:33
Speaker 4: want guys that are going to be bending the edge,
34:34
Speaker 4: they're gonna be those agile guys that can bend around
34:37
Speaker 4: the side. You want them to have a really good
34:38
Speaker 4: cone drill. You want them to have a sub seven cone.
34:41
Speaker 4: If you have a speed receiver, obviously you want them
34:43
Speaker 4: to test good in the forty. If a guy runs
34:46
Speaker 4: a four or five and you expect him to be
34:47
Speaker 4: your speedster, there's a lot of corners that are going
34:49
Speaker 4: to be faster than him. That's not going to be
34:51
Speaker 4: as successful as you think it's going to be. So
34:53
Speaker 4: there are some individual traits that are are are specific
34:57
Speaker 4: to individual positions in different areas, but none that are broad.
35:03
Speaker 4: The cone, I think, tends to line up with the
35:06
Speaker 4: most number of positions. So if there was one drill
35:10
Speaker 4: that was the most important one, it's probably going to
35:13
Speaker 4: be the three cone. But I don't think that that's universal.
35:17
Speaker 2: You have lived up to your description as a math
35:20
Speaker 2: chunkie and a football nerd. I have told people how
35:24
Speaker 2: they can find you on Twitter, but where are all
35:26
Speaker 2: the various places that they can see your work?
35:29
Speaker 4: So I'm on multiple socials, I'm primarily on Twitter. You
35:32
Speaker 4: already mentioned that math bomb. My website is RAZ dot Football.
35:35
Speaker 4: You can go and check out anything there for free.
35:37
Speaker 4: We're up to twenty six thousand players I think on
35:41
Speaker 4: there from nineteen eighty seven to twenty twenty four. I
35:45
Speaker 4: also run the Pro Football Network, a mock draft simulator,
35:49
Speaker 4: so if you're one of those people who likes doing
35:51
Speaker 4: mock drafts, you can always give that a try and
35:53
Speaker 4: hopefully you enjoy that as much as you like the
35:55
Speaker 4: other stuff that we do. And if you're just bored
35:58
Speaker 4: and want to talk football, obviously like talking football, so
36:02
Speaker 4: I'm always up for that.
36:04
Speaker 2: Well, this has been great. I've been very intrigued by
36:07
Speaker 2: RAZ for years now, and I'm glad we finally had
36:09
Speaker 2: the opportunity to chat. I appreciate your time, Thanks for
36:12
Speaker 2: coming on the pod, and keep up the great work.
36:15
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, appreciate you having me.
36:17
Speaker 2: Here's a quick reminder that the Bengals Booth podcast is
36:20
Speaker 2: brought to you by pay Corps, Proud to be the
36:22
Speaker 2: Bengals Official HR software provider by Alta Fiber future proof
36:27
Speaker 2: fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business, and community
36:30
Speaker 2: to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best
36:34
Speaker 2: care for the best fans. Kettering Health is the official
36:38
Speaker 2: healthcare provider of the Bengals. The Bengals open the Rookie
36:42
Speaker 2: Mini Camp on Friday. In addition to their ten draft picks,
36:46
Speaker 2: the Bengals will be signing nearly fifteen undrafted free agents.
36:50
Speaker 2: The team can announce them until they've passed physicals and
36:54
Speaker 2: signed their contracts, but the players and or their colleges
36:58
Speaker 2: have shared their plans to sign at Cincinnati. I checked
37:01
Speaker 2: out the RAS scores for all of those players, and
37:05
Speaker 2: the guy with the highest number is a wide receiver
37:07
Speaker 2: named Cole Burgess. He's from Dan Pitchers alma mater, Cortland,
37:12
Speaker 2: a Division III school in upstate New York, not far
37:15
Speaker 2: from Syracuse. The six foot tall, one hundred ninety two
37:18
Speaker 2: pound Burgess helped the Red Dragons win the Division III
37:22
Speaker 2: national championship last year by catching eighty seven passes for
37:27
Speaker 2: nearly fourteen hundred yards, including sixteen for touchdowns. In his
37:32
Speaker 2: college career, he averaged more than seventeen yards a catch,
37:36
Speaker 2: and Burgess also had three kick returns for touchdowns. His
37:41
Speaker 2: RAS score was nine point eight. That would have ranked
37:45
Speaker 2: eighth among wide receivers who tested at the NFL Combine,
37:49
Speaker 2: as Burgess ran a four four five forty with a
37:52
Speaker 2: forty one and a half inch vertical and he broad
37:55
Speaker 2: jumped more than eleven feet. I'll be eager to get
37:58
Speaker 2: a look at Cole Burgess on Friday. Finally, two years
38:03
Speaker 2: before the Bengals drafted Joe Burrow, they used a seventh
38:06
Speaker 2: round pick on a quarterback from the University of Toledo
38:10
Speaker 2: named Logan Woodside. He never played in the regular season
38:13
Speaker 2: for Cincinnati, but Woodside has played in the NFL for
38:17
Speaker 2: Tennessee and Atlanta. Now, Logan has returned to the Bengals
38:21
Speaker 2: as a free agent and will likely battle an undrafted
38:25
Speaker 2: rookie named Rocky Lombardi who played at Michigan State in
38:28
Speaker 2: Northern Illinois, to be the bengals number three quarterback. I
38:33
Speaker 2: caught up with Logan on his first day back in
38:35
Speaker 2: the Bengals locker room. Logan, It's funny sometimes how things
38:39
Speaker 2: come full circle. You are back with the team that
38:41
Speaker 2: originally drafted you. Tell us about signing with the Bengals.
38:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, super excited, super super grateful to be back and
38:47
Speaker 5: to have this opportunity, and yeah, it's funny how things
38:51
Speaker 5: work out.
38:51
Speaker 3: And then I'm super grateful to be here.
38:53
Speaker 1: What appealed to you about this opportunity?
38:56
Speaker 5: I think just to come back and obviously be a
38:59
Speaker 5: part of a great organization, a team that's had a
39:02
Speaker 5: lot of success over the last couple of years, and
39:05
Speaker 5: you know, just being close to home definitely helps.
39:07
Speaker 3: And uh, just excited to be here.
39:10
Speaker 2: Obviously being a Joe Burrow teammate speaks for itself. But
39:13
Speaker 2: Jake Browning also had a lot of success last year
39:15
Speaker 2: when he got the opportunity.
39:16
Speaker 1: Do you see a.
39:17
Speaker 2: Quarterback room that can help you bring out the best
39:20
Speaker 2: in yourself?
39:21
Speaker 1: I think so.
39:22
Speaker 5: You know, obviously I've known Jake a little bit through
39:24
Speaker 5: college and then you know, obviously meeting him this past
39:27
Speaker 5: week and youet to meet Joe, but excited to do
39:29
Speaker 5: that as well. And two great dudes and obviously great quarterbacks,
39:32
Speaker 5: and I'm excited to be a part of it.
39:34
Speaker 2: You've had some success when given the opportunity to play
39:37
Speaker 2: for other teams in the NFL, how would you characterize
39:39
Speaker 2: your career and how you've done so far, you know.
39:42
Speaker 5: Just tried to you know, fight each and every day
39:44
Speaker 5: to to earn a roster spot, and also just with
39:47
Speaker 5: every opportunity, just just being just being ready and trying
39:50
Speaker 5: to take advantage of that moment.
39:52
Speaker 2: You aren't far from home, as you alluded to. How
39:55
Speaker 2: have friends and family reacted to this news? Really surprised?
39:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, super, they're super excited.
40:00
Speaker 1: You know.
40:01
Speaker 5: Obviously, my wife is super excited to be back here.
40:03
Speaker 5: You know, we met it up here and just excited
40:06
Speaker 5: to be back.
40:07
Speaker 2: Have the Bengals giving you any indication of what your
40:10
Speaker 2: role might be?
40:11
Speaker 1: Are they?
40:12
Speaker 2: Did they tell you they're likely to keep two on
40:14
Speaker 2: the active roster, another person on the practice squad or
40:17
Speaker 2: what kind of info did you get from them?
40:20
Speaker 1: Not a ton of info on that.
40:21
Speaker 5: Just really trying to come in here each and every
40:23
Speaker 5: day and learn my teammates and you know, learn this
40:26
Speaker 5: offense as quickly as possible, and try to find myself
40:28
Speaker 5: a role.
40:29
Speaker 2: We'll certainly be throwing to some great targets. That has
40:32
Speaker 2: to be appealing, I would think to anybody looking to
40:34
Speaker 2: play quarterback in the NFL.
40:36
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, great group of skill receivers and obviously running
40:40
Speaker 5: backs tight ends. So super sided to continue to meet
40:42
Speaker 5: all these guys and continue.
40:43
Speaker 3: To work with them.
40:44
Speaker 1: Welcome back, appreciate your time, Thank you very much.
40:47
Speaker 2: Woodside has played very well in NFL preseason games and
40:52
Speaker 2: in a stint with the San Antonio commanders of the
40:55
Speaker 2: now defunct AAF.
40:57
Speaker 1: That's going to do it.
40:58
Speaker 2: For This episode of the Bengals Booth pot brought to
41:00
Speaker 2: you by pay Core, Proud to be the Bengals official
41:04
Speaker 2: HR software provider, by Ulta Fiber, future proof fiber Internet
41:08
Speaker 2: designed to elevate your home, business and community to a
41:12
Speaker 2: new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for
41:16
Speaker 2: the best fans. Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider
41:20
Speaker 2: of the Bengals. If you haven't done so already, please
41:23
Speaker 2: subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute,
41:25
Speaker 2: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
41:28
Speaker 2: more Bengals fans find us. I'm Dan Hord and thanks
41:32
Speaker 2: for listening to The Bengals Booth Podcast