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Occultinarium - EP 7 - Animals · OCCULTINARIUM

• Lynn: Good evening and welcome to tonight's episode of the Occultinarium. are the voices of the Occultinarium ⁓ tonight's lovely hosts ⁓ Luigi: I'm Luigi. Amelie: Amelie Adriana: Adriana. Lynn: And Lynn. Tonight's episode we wanted to go a little bit... well, not off-record, but off... is it off-topic? I'm not sure, we'll see, we might get on-topic with the magic and the weird. We wanted to talk about animals. Pretty straightforward, you might think. It was all off of a tangent because we all know that Luigi loves ducks. and we started talking about ducks and how amazing they are and then I'm like and what are we supposed what are we going to record next session I'm like let's talk about animals so here we are about our favorite animals and they're our favorites and maybe a little bit into childhood and if there's if there's any magical connection we have to those animals and ⁓ if they're connected to spiritual animals or not. I think we were thinking of tackling in an extra episode because ⁓ animals and power animals is a big topic. So we'll probably see you in a later episode for that, as well as mystical creatures. That's amazing. All As always, we're going to do a tarot card that we are going to pick in the beginning. and this time it's going to be me again so I will shuffle and pick one in secret and at the end of the episode we will reveal it but if you feel like guessing drop in the comments below we can start if you just go a little round around ⁓ very and say our top animals if it's one it's one up to three whatever ⁓ because magical let's see Amelie what's your favorite animal? or your favorite animals. Amelie: My favourite favourite animal is bats. I like bats. I think they're great, they're cute and all of that. I also do like cats. It's just so, I just feel like it's so generic. I do like cats because they just, they just do whatever they please. I do like bats. I mean, I like a lot of animals but I think those ones are the two that I like top favourite. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: Like top, top favor. Lynn: favorite. What about you, Luigi? Luigi: we did already discuss how much I like ducks. ⁓ think when I grew up I had a lot of them running around the garden. But I have to speak from a perspective of favorite favorite animal or animals, definitely ⁓ crow the raven. ⁓ You know, corvus, I suppose, ⁓ a type bird. Very intelligent, great personalities. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Luigi: almost human, I would say, ⁓ and elephants. I think I only seen an elephant once in my life, but I got very teary when I saw it and they're just so majestic. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, yeah I can hook in on that ⁓ in a bit but Adriana what's your favorite? Adriana: I love all animals. the them. ⁓ But me, the dog. dog ⁓ is a special in my life. Because I grew up with dogs. We have several animals. father used to bring very exotic animals from the Amazonian rainforest, like deers and you know. Lynn: You Amelie: You have to pick some. Lynn: pick favorites. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Adriana: ⁓ little tigers that is like Tigrillo's that and so on it was as pets so yeah so but to me it always like my companions and ⁓ you I adore them I adore dogs but snakes ⁓ I snakes ⁓ so yes I love a snake and I love to feel them for the Boa Constrictor and so on when I was at uni Lynn: ⁓ wow, wow. Mm. Cool. Yeah. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: studying biology, microbiology. I have a colleague that he was specializing in crocodiles and reptiles. He had crocodiles and had snakes in his house. And I love, there was one boa constrictor. I love to hold her and put it underneath of my chair because they are cold-blood animals. The sensation in your skin is so delicious. Lynn: Wow. Wow. Luigi: Jeez. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: is all the sensation is amazing, you know. So Charlie and I have an anecdote. We went to a bar one night and we're like eight biologists and crazy people. And I decided to take the snake with me. When I was ordering my cocktail, I put my hand like that and the snake came out and they threw us out of the bar because I have a snake with me. Luigi: Surprise, surprise. Adriana: So yes, it's dogs and snakes, I have, yeah, genuinely love, I think I have more love for animals than for humans. So yes, I think animals has been always my companions. And yes, I have a lot of anecdotes growing up in Colombia. yeah, you it's like your father bring you a deer or a little Lynn: Wow. Adriana: tiger, know, as a pet. So, but yeah, so yes. Lynn: Yeah, yeah. Is it those small, is it those small jungle deers you mean? Because I know there's like these tiny little deers, is those, you mean? Yeah, these tiny ones. Yeah. Shika or something. Yeah. Adriana: Yes, there was like a bambi one. I think someone killed the mother and this was an orphan. So father brought it home like, take a new pet. ⁓ yes. But dogs and snakes ⁓ are favorite ones. Lynn: Wow, that's the dream. Wow, yeah, yeah. For me, it I mean, I'm on the same boat as Adriana. I love pretty much all animals except for parasites. I love ⁓ animals. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ the better humans, but ⁓ all know that. We are also ⁓ animals, think. ⁓ It's the human being is my least favorite animal. think they're right there with the parasites. Amelie: How about you, Len? Adriana: Yes. ⁓ Yes. we are, yes. Lynn: Yeah, well, well, there's exceptions like you guys, you know, but my my favorites now, ⁓ top favorite is Foxes so Foxes. yes. And Black Panthers because I got to be special. And also Corvids, crows, crows. Corvid types. I found interesting, Adriana, that Adriana: Hehehehehe ⁓ Okay. ⁓ Lynn: out of the many animals there are you actually picked or picked but for you both animals are in the Chinese zodiac as well. Did you ever realize this? So you picked zodiac animal. Adriana: Yeah, ⁓ no. And I'm a horse. I'm a horse. And in the solar one, I'm a taurus. So I can have a zoo completely there. yes. Plus animal guides ⁓ as Lynn: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you have a sue. That's right. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, there's a lot. And for Luigi, like your theme seems to be ⁓ flying, like you have birds. You seem to be very much into the birds. Yeah. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: Yeah, I did notice that. Yeah, I think I like creatures that fly. And I think it's because, whether you want to consider that spiritually or metaphorically, I have bit of a... To me, the ability to fly represents the key to freedom. know, obviously ⁓ we fly out of our own accord. We machinery, I suppose. ⁓ So really, I say envy, I don't mean that I... Adriana: Yes, yes. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mm. Luigi: envy with a withering sensation. I get inspired by the fact that birds have this not magical, natural ability to take flight, you know, like no limits and they can get to explore the world at their own pace. They get a different perspective than ours. They get almost a divine perspective, I guess, from up there. Yeah. Lynn: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm. It's very eco-roozy, yeah. Amelie: I do love crows as well, crows and ravens, they're just so intelligent. I have the couple that is living in one of the trees here and I see them from time to time and it's so cute because it's definitely like a married couple kind of a thing, know. He goes, finds some food, she comes and you can see them like it's like Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: clockwork sometimes if you go out at the same time and it's really nice to see. Luigi: Mmm. Yeah, was ⁓ one that we had ⁓ growing up. nephews at the time, they were very little. And obviously growing up in London, you know, in a big city, ⁓ don't really get to see ⁓ pets. Well, you don't really get to see pets all the time, but also I guess you don't get to see ⁓ pets such as, for example, a raven. ⁓ when they saw her, you know, the raven that we used to raise in the garden, they ⁓ very ⁓ and they were screaming and shouting and throwing their arms around it sounds cute, it was cute, but she got very scared, you know, because she sees all this crazy movement and she starts getting very agitated and flaps the wings ⁓ and in like in a position of, not attack, but you know, like wants to pack, like stay away from me. ⁓ And I came in between her and my nephews and it's, I was so amazed by that because as soon as she saw my body, ⁓ Adriana: Hmm. Lynn: Mmm. Mmm. Luigi: ⁓ she stopped. Almost like, ⁓ and I felt like, I'm being recognized. ⁓ been seen. Lynn: Wow, yeah. Yeah, I mean they do recognize faces people people, you know figured that out yeah Yes Yeah, they even Yeah, and they even think they will teach their children as well So if you and that's like my kind of planning as I go out there and I have like there's a few flocks of crows around Adriana: and for very long time they have a great memory. They can remember someone. Luigi: Mm. Lynn: that I've been working for several years to become my friends. ⁓ winter, it's like the first time that there are two of them, I think, or maybe it's three, it's like from different flocks, but that actually have come to my hand and pick food from my hand. And it was like the best ⁓ days It's like, yeah, know, I'm just sitting there like, yes. I'm like, just come on, you can do it. And then they go like, mm, mm, mm, mm. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: And I'm like, yeah, you know, such an elated feeling. I think to be ⁓ be trusted by wild animals, you know, ⁓ ⁓ it means. it so much. So, ⁓ yeah, really I love I love those two flocks and and sometimes that there's I mean, always lots of stories, but I've had this first experience that was like one of the experiences that were like kind of like. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: established a report. Lynn: wow what the hell. I was like out with my dog I was ⁓ like this park area, public park and there were like some people around right ⁓ and see that there's like one or two crows and then I start you know throwing some food and I thought like I don't think this is my flock because they were kind of shy and I know from the flocks that know me there's always like one or two that come like swooping in and are like ⁓ there you are you know where's our food you know. But these were really shy. So I was just like, you know, like giving them some treats. And then after five minutes and I was listening to music, I wasn't even like fully like focused. After a few minutes, there were like 10 and then there were like 15 and there were like 20 and there were 30. And I was just walking. And at the end, I was like walking with this flock of crows of like 50. I mean, in different like they were in different distance to me. But I counted and there were like around 50. They're like flew with me while I was walking. And then that was so interesting to see. was, ⁓ I wished I had like some really cool outfit at that point, you know, ⁓ it's winter. So it's like my winter coat and my dog vest and stuff. ⁓ not really that cool at all, but I was walking and then the ⁓ of interesting thing to see is how people react because so many people don't react. They're on their phones the entire time. Adriana: wonderful. Lynn: they don't see anything. If I were walking around and somebody was like in a fucking flock of ravens or crows or even pigeons or whatever, I would be like, what's going on? You know, but people are like, you know, they don't see it. And some people were like, you know, they were like, some people were gawking. They were like, what is this? I'm just like, no, I'm just walking with my crows. Amelie: I find like when I was living in London, I found that the crows were the animals that you could get the closest to. It was crows and squirrels as well. I do love squirrels. They're just funny, but kind of independent. Like it kind of depends what park. I lived really close to Hampstead Heath. So there was a lot of like squirrels, quite a lot of crows as well. But, ⁓ surprise, surprise. One of my favorite places to go to, to like Lynn: Yeah, yeah. Amelie: just relax was the Highgate Cemetery. was like, surprise, surprise. But it was really close to me. It was pretty close. I mean, it was a bit of a walk from where I lived, but it was really nice, specifically summertime, just to walk there. And there, there was definitely like crows around. And when you're like sitting and walking, you kind of like sit. Lynn: Of course, I've been... yeah, of course. It's so lovely though. Yeah. Luigi: Hahaha Amelie: and talk to them or they come to you or you just have like a connection with them. I also found like there's the, there was few like magpies as well, but it is the crows that are, that they just, they just look like they're very curious of you. But like, you know, who are you? What are you doing? It's almost like they want to know who you are. Well, I found like the magpies are more like, Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Mmm. Mm, mm. Amelie: I'm here, look at me. I'm sassy, but like that. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's that's quite true. Or yeah, I find that might be true. There's also like lots of magpies here in Oslo and also a couple like one couple that knows a little bit. Like I've not seen them in ages, but they're also some that came closer and you know took up a little bit of contact. ⁓ And remember that was the first time I actually heard them sing or like, you know. They have like a quite melodious voice if they want to. It's not just like, you know, when I was like sitting there, I was like, wow, can you do that again? I will give you more food. I was sitting there doing like that, that twittering and I'm like, wow, this actually looks that actually sounds nice. Yeah. Yes, entertainment, of course, you got to you got to give the artists some. ⁓ Yeah. Right. Luigi: Paid entertainment. ⁓ You can reward them. Amelie: Yes. Although I'm talking. Luigi: Yeah, I find them quite mystical as well. Amelie: The magpies, yeah. I mean, talking about like crows and stuff, actually, found a lot people think that bats are just like in caves and places, but actually quite a few places where I lived, I used to bats flying around in the evening and where I am right as well. Lynn: Mm. Amelie: Like if I go out in the evening, obviously not now because they're hibernating, but in the evening just before the sun goes completely down, you can see loads of them ⁓ the cute ones are like the really tiny ones and they're just really fast as well. ⁓ it's just really interesting. I normally just go out and look at them and talk to them and they're just just so tiny. I mean, like I'm kind of hoping that they were like... Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Amelie: Come sit on my shoulder. Actually not. So when I was a little, don't, I don't know how old I was. The where my mum used to live, they have a silver mine. ⁓ It's like it's, it's an old silver mine. So you can go there and visit it. ⁓ And that's in Sweden. Yeah, that's in Sweden. That's in Sweden. So I must've been, like maybe eight or nine or something like that. Lynn: Is that in Poland or is that in Sweden? That's in Sweden, yeah. Amelie: And we're like, let's go and visit this mine and see what's down there. ⁓ And there like, most people go to certain like ⁓ level, but then there's like an one that is even deeper. And obviously ⁓ they all decided to go there. I got ⁓ so scared because bat flew out and he just grabbed my hair and pulled it, like with a feet and I just had like a proper fit and I ⁓ like, and man was like, don't scream that much because like it's a cave, things can fall. ⁓ So then, like, I kind of like got, yeah, it was like, but I if he just said that just to say it, but ⁓ that at time, Adriana: Okay. Yes. Lynn: ⁓ Right. Luigi: Control your panic Lynn: Yeah Amelie: I got really scared, but I don't think it was because of was because of it was a bat. I think it was because it came from out of nowhere in a place where I was already scared and it was really dark as well. So I couldn't see it. So I guess that was like, yeah. Yeah. And you, I don't know. I wasn't expecting any animals to be down there to be honest, because there's a lot of people visiting and I just did not expect any animals to be there. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Luigi: And it's the shock as well. Lynn: Yeah, it's a shock, right? Then you just, yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Amelie: So he scared me, but maybe he was just trying to say like, look, I'm here, so you better worship me. So that's what I did. So they wouldn't scare me anymore. after that, we like that. ⁓ Lynn: Ha Adriana: Hahaha! Lynn: ⁓ yeah, that's great. mean, I like bats. ⁓ My best friend, ⁓ her favorite animals, also bats, ⁓ the fruit bats, like South American ones, especially like flying foxes. Yeah, she loves those. They're so pretty and they're so large too. they're, yeah. ⁓ But when I was a child ⁓ or also like up, a teen, Adriana: Mm-hmm. Amelie: Mmm. Lynn: used to have this big zoo where I used to live. One of biggest ⁓ in the and it's actually doing, ⁓ it's done lot of like great work to rehabilitate animals and make it as nice for the animals as possible in the zoo as well. ⁓ But you know, way they had like a little bat cave ⁓ and that was like a little area where you could go in. There were like bats and other kind of small nocturnal animals like scorpions and stuff. It was a very small space and a lot of people that would go in there and they would not realize that the bats were flying around freely, you know, because people it is dark, they go in, you know, they look, they're like, okay, there's a few scorpions, there's axolotlis. It's fine. We go back out. But was like, no, no, the bats are flying free. So I would just go in there for like 10 minutes or 15 minutes. I would just stand still. then you for the first like firstly, you would start seeing better obviously, because you get used to the darkness. So suddenly you see them like on the walls and on the ceiling and you see them suddenly you see them flying around. And then if you just stood still, you know, they would also like notice, okay, you're there and you're not moving, you're not doing anything. So they would get really close and you would like able to feel like the, you know, the, air from them. And I also like, at some point I was also just like, because you know, I'm, I'm me, right? So I just stretch out my hand. I'm like, you know, maybe I'm get lucky or something. And I remember one time I actually like, just had my hand out. and then a bat landed on my finger. And I mean, they're tiny, know, they're maybe like this, right? So it kind of landed or half landed, you know, it's kind of a landed on my finger. And then I guess it tried to check what I had a food. So it bit me a little bit on the finger. It like bit me and I was like, and then it flew off. But I had just this like one second where I had a bat in my hand it was so soft and so warm and it surprised me. So I was a little bit like, my finger. ⁓ Amelie: You Maybe he thought that your finger was a worm. Ooh. Lynn: Yeah, I mean, they also fruit, so vegetable and fruit bats. But there were like bananas and stuff strewn around sometimes. And I guess sometimes people maybe offer them food. I don't know. So I think it tested whether my finger was like, or maybe it looked like a banana, know? So it's like, maybe it's a banana. It's like, a banana. Yeah. Yeah, guys, what's that? Amelie: ⁓ yeah. Adriana: Mm-hmm. Well, are a lot of bats in Colombia, obviously, you can expect, in the tropics and vampires bats as well. But the issue is that, yeah, you can go in caves ⁓ in Antioquia where the famous Pablo Escobar has his farm. There is a cave that is ⁓ of Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: vampires. Lynn: Ha ha ha. Adriana: of bats and it's wonderful to be there. But they are very smelly, know, man, the poo is very smelly, guano. so, ⁓ particularly well, just have a farm and they used to make a nest in one of the bedrooms in the ⁓ ceiling. And they are baby, they are making noise all night. So you cannot sleep because it's like a squeaky noise, you know. Lynn: The guano, Yeah. Adriana: So you start seeing them like a little pest there. And particularly they say, oh, be careful, they can have rabies and they can bite you. And you you have to be very careful with that. So the perception of the bat is of fascination, but discussed at the same time that people are very, you know, prehensive. But for example, there is Lynn: Mm-mm. Mmm. Mmm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: monkey howlers, so you can hear the monkeys howling and you can see the bats, but unfortunately sometimes the bats fall in the swimming pool and some drown. I was, yeah like running into swimming pool very early in the morning with the little thing that you know for fishing things, know, ⁓ and trying to save as as I could, know, trying to take them out. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. can drown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Mm. Adriana: of the swimming pool and allow them to dry and so on. Because even if you are scared of an animal or you find that it's not appealing and so on, I have been always compelled to help the animal, even if it's in distress. There are other people say, don't touch it, don't get close or, you know, let it there. And so I was not, I was not, I had to go to help and save them. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: So yes, that is the spirit I have with bats. I love them. I think they are beautiful. I admire their ecosystem for echolocation. I think they are extremely evolved. Some of them, they are beautiful. Some of are quite really particular looking. ⁓ Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Amelie: they're not all very cute. Adriana: They have a beauty that only their mother can love them. ⁓ But I found them fascinating. As a species, I found that they are amazing. Amazing, they sense how they evolve. And it's a mammal that flies. So one of you can request, yes. So yes, I have a lot of admiration and love for the bats as well. ⁓ Amelie: Yeah Lynn: Hmm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, exactly. They cheat the system. Hmm. Yeah. Amelie: I love also you get to see like these little reels and things on Instagram of people that are taking care of bats and they put them in like a little burritos and stuff and their eyes are just like so innocent and so cute. yeah, you just want to like cuddle it and they seem to be so like playful as well. Luigi: I'm sure I'm- Adriana: Mm. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Yeah. Adriana: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Lynn: Yeah, yeah. Mm. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: Yeah, think hopefully I'm not the only one. I'm sure plenty of people do it, but whenever I feel down, sometimes I will go on Instagram and I will look specifically for the many reels where people are feeding the flying foxes. And that usually cheers me up, know, just when they're like, because they're you know, they're wrapped in their own wings, so they're like almost cozy and sleepy, I suppose. And then you feed them the banana pieces. ⁓ Amelie: Yes! Adriana: ⁓ yes. Yes, yes. Mm. Luigi: the little babies. Yeah, yeah, like you can see, you can see that they're enjoying it as well. Like, I don't know, it brings me so much pleasure. So it cheers me up whenever I see that. Lynn: Yeah, I'm gonna go live. Adriana: Yes. ⁓ Yes. Yes. Lynn: Just upside down. Yeah. Amelie: You Lynn: Yeah, yeah, I know something. Amelie: Yeah, you know, I've... The only charity that I... I'm still giving money to every month is the Bat Conservation here in the UK. And I've done this probably for I don't know how long. It must have been maybe like eight years or so around about. Yes. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Hm. Luigi: You're a real patron of the bots. Lynn: Yes. Amelie: It's just something that happened because I was reading stories of how specifically in the UK because it gets so cold so because they're hibernating and then They sometimes because the weather is so up and down and sometimes they wake up and then they don't have any food So a lot of them die because of that So thought Why not? ⁓ So every I'm donating money so they can save bats Adriana: Yes. Amelie: It's in a little suburb somewhere in London. Lynn: That's a good cause. Yeah, that's a real good cause. Yeah, give it to the animals So what about you guys and your, like the favorite animals you have now, are they the same as you had as when you were children or did that change? Or do you remember what your favorite animal was? Yeah, do you remember? Amelie: Yeah. Luigi: No, that's a good question. I think when I was a child my favorite animal was the dolphin. But that's because, you know, when I grew up, like, at least in Italy, or at least ⁓ my circle, Flipper was a big, yeah, it ⁓ was a big film. Like, you know, everybody was watching it. ⁓ also, like, dolphins, they're not necessarily animals that, unless you see them on TV, you know, don't really see them. Lynn: ⁓ yeah, okay. Adriana: Yes. Sleeper, sleeper, sleeper. Yes. Yes. Yes. Lynn: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Hmm. Luigi: outside of your doorstep, isn't it? So I think, I know they're so gracious, emanate joy and happiness. ⁓ I think when I was a child, ⁓ I had the dolphin, but again, for a very cinematography ⁓ reason. ⁓ Adriana: Mm-mm. Lynn: Mm-hmm. What about you Amelie? Do you remember? Or did Amelie: I really liked like rodents. I really like little like mice I rats if they're like white rats with long tails and red eyes. I really love those. ⁓ Rabbits. Really rabbits. My grandfather to have rabbits on his ⁓ little allotment Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Amelie: did eat them eventually and then make coats out of them. But before he did that, I play with them. ⁓ I really into, I couldn't a pet when I was a kid. So I got the hamster ⁓ and yeah, I it was really cute. So I'm not really sure if I like the rodents just because I really liked the rodents or it was a thing because that was the only pet I could have. But my cousins Adriana: Yes. Yes. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm. Luigi: Mmm. Amelie: friend, his best friend, he had a rat and I must have been like six years old or so and I was just totally blown away with this rat. My mum thought he was absolutely disgusting but I thought he was like ever so cute and he let me play with it as well and so I was like yeah I want to have a rat but I could never have a rat but a hamster was okay because they did not have long tails. Lynn: Yeah, all right. about you Adriana? ⁓ Amelie: Apparently. Adriana: Me, no, as I say, I have dogs since I was, I think when I was born that there was already dogs in the house, know, so dogs has been a constant member of the family, probably the only member I really like to be with. No, but I was the only daughter with brothers, only Lynn: Was it different? Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, I'm like that with yeah. Yeah, I'm like that with cats. Adriana: all of the men, you know. So I think that the dog was my refuge, was my companion, and particularly for the symbolism of the dog, you know, the unconditional love and protection and loyalty and kindness. is is your best friend, is your companion, is your guardian. So you feel very protected with the dog. So I think I grew up with the dog, plus all other exotic pets and you know, ⁓ and very but ⁓ my school, you know, ⁓ a... have a lot of gardens and open space and so on. there was a lot of ⁓ frogs that were like this big, green frogs. ⁓ And they were like as well. And I used to use my breaks for and so on, catching the frogs ⁓ and the and play with them. You I found that beautiful frogs. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: They are this big, green, green, green, I found that they were completely beautiful. yeah, playing with beetles, playing with frogs, dogs, deers, little and so ⁓ on. yes, I think that get used to, you get used to, you get used ⁓ to play with frogs beetles. Yeah. ⁓ So yes. Luigi: You name it Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Adriana: No, I never have that fear, element of fear towards animals. lot of people have that jumping or whatever. No, I didn't. I was ⁓ like curiosity to look and them. You know. So yes, I think I have that. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm ⁓ Hmm. Adriana: Probably a close relationship with animals since I was a child, yes. Lynn: Hmm. Yeah, I grew up on the countryside. And Although my grandparents used to live in the city where the aforementioned zoo was and I was born in the city but I always lived outside on the countryside. mean the ⁓ of animals as far as I know is really just learned. If you put a child into a room with whatever animal it will normally not be scared. You can throw snakes on it and it's just gonna be like... interested in it. most of the fear is just learned or look, you know, you look at your parents and what they do. And used to be the neighbour's kid that I had, had a neighbour and he was kind of squeamish. And we all had like gardens then there was like a little like a like a metal thing that went down to the basement and they like sometimes animals would fall like small animals like frogs would fall into that and he was very scared like he was scared of like frogs and toads and mice and then every time there was like something that had been caught in that little thing and they couldn't get back up they would call me and i would get like they was like hey can you can you come i have like a toad in there i'd be like yes so i'd like will come and then catch the toad and then i would have it like a little bucket and i would like Adriana: Mmm. Lynn: have a little bicycle and go to the little we had some small lakes close by or ponds like big ponds i'm not sure what you call them and it would just put them back you know and well the mice that would just you know take out so it was always like this fascination with all kinds of animals really or even spiders like i had no i was not afraid of spiders when i was a child either yeah and i really like yeah Adriana: Yes. Mm. Me too, that was for God to mention it. I'm still not, still my son, my son is petrified of spiders. So he, he called me to say that he has a spider asking me to go to take care. And I'm incapable to kill them. don't want to kill any animal, you know, only if he's a yes, but the rest I... Lynn: No, me neither. I like them. Yeah. Adriana: So I grabbed the spider and very kindly I put her out and I told to them, I said, please don't be in this room because you you are scaring the boy. so, and he was looking at me and say, why are you talking to a spider? You are the most weird mom that everyone can have. said, kill her, kill her. I said, no, no, no, no, we don't kill anything here. We don't kill anything here. Yeah. ⁓ Lynn: Mm. Amelie: It doesn't Luigi: I don't know. Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Amelie: It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't sound crazy to me at all. I, I used to be a bit scared of spiders, but I think it's because my mom was scared of spiders. But the last place I lived in in London, I, was, it was really, really old flat. So there was loads of nooks and crannies and they had spiders coming out. And I just, I, for the first time I was like, ⁓ I'm just to leave you there. Luigi: I don't know if it's... Lynn: Mm. Adriana: Mm. Amelie: they were making these little spider webs and things and there was a spider at first he was it wasn't the same spider but in my mind it was the same spider there was a spider in my in my bathroom and was hanging on the ceiling and I used to call him Herbert the pervert because he was in my bathroom looking at me while I was having a shower ⁓ Adriana: You Amelie: And I think he just got really, really scared. And then I saw him in the kitchen and it was one of those window things. And he was just there and I was like, so now you moved. So I called him Herb because of Herbs in the kitchen and Herbert. So that was Herb and I let him live there. ⁓ And the evening he crawled into that little bit. Lynn: Bluff. Adriana: Yes. Yes. Lynn: Mm-hmm. Adriana: Yeah. Amelie: Or he like, he was sleeping and then he was waking up. So I never used to like close the window properly because I just didn't want to like, it always slightly open because he had the spiderweb. And then one day I did not see him and I was waiting one day, three days, five days, a week and he never came out. And I am very sure that he just died in one of those little Lynn: Mm-hmm. Amelie: Previces, so I made him a little tombstone on the window. So Yeah Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Aww. Adriana: Hahaha! Luigi: ⁓ that's so sweet! It was like your old flatmate! Amelie: That was, he was my old flatmate and I loved him dearly. he's the one that maybe made me ⁓ way less scared of spiders than I used to. And now I know it was just my mom. It wasn't the fact that the spiders, ⁓ I do have some crazy big spiders in the garden. I have to say, I do not really want to like pet them or anything, but I just let them be. Adriana: Mm. No, ⁓ Luigi: I don't know if it's scientific or not and I don't remember where I heard this or read this but you know when you were talking about ⁓ wanting to kill spiders obviously for human for compassionate reasons like we shouldn't harm any life and whatnot but also in addition to that I I don't know if it's all spiders or just certain spiders I think when you kill them they release some kind of either smell or pheromone or something that attracts other spiders so it's recommended not to kill them, specifically not to squash them so that you don't attract more obviously I haven't gone to a proper source to check whether it's true or not but I used it as an additional rationale for not killing them because I told myself no, because if you kill them there will be more so use a cup Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: Mm. Lynn: Hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Amelie: That makes sense. I think it's the same thing with ants as well. I think. Adriana: Mm. Lynn: Hmm or slugs I think maybe I feel like also slugs, I don't I don't know I just know I mean slugs eat each other So if you kill a slug, then others will come to eat. Yeah, they're they're like that. They they eat their own bodies. They ⁓ Luigi: Possibly. Adriana: Yes, yes, yes. Amelie: You know, you say slugs. my gosh. When I first moved to this house, you what? When I was very, very little, I used to find it very fascinating looking at snails and slugs and just sitting there just looking at them and watching them. My mum didn't like it because she found them really disgusting, but I used to find it really fascinating. But I was very little, so I did not know a lot about the world. But when I moved to this house, ⁓ I think... Luigi: ⁓ my Lynn: Not our favorites probably. Mm. Amelie: before I moved here, nobody lived here for quite a few months. So the heating wasn't really on and the kitchen is like an extension to the garden. the first maybe two, three months, like the first time I found a slug in the freaking kitchen on the floor and I was like, ⁓ the heck is that? It was just so weird. And for the first like ⁓ three months, ⁓ Lynn: Ahem. Amelie: kid you not, I could find a random slug here and there and one even crawled right into the like dining room and it just, I got so not scared but it's just, it just, you can be here but in the garden. You can't be indoors, it can be outdoors but not indoors but I think they crawled through the pipes because it wasn't used for so long. Adriana: you Luigi: There's Nikki. Adriana: Yes, yes. Amelie: Then it took a while to like get rid of the, I haven't seen anything yet, but in the garden, loads of snails, but the slugs, it was, it wasn't even like slugs. Some of them were like green. I it was, ⁓ it just not good. Why am I talking about this? ⁓ Well, ⁓ Luigi: It was a... It was a third encounter of... No, encounter of the third or fourth kind. Lynn: That's a... Mmm. Amelie: Yes, yes, it was, yeah, no, I wish nobody. Adriana: Mmm. Lynn: Yeah, I always used to like snails. I find them really cute with their little houses and I have also stories of me rescuing snails from when the rivers or other little streams went high and then all the snails when I was just rescuing handfuls of snails and I was putting them... I was a weird kid. I was putting them on my face and I like, oh this feels nice. But slugs, not so much with slugs. Slugs I always had this kind of... yeah, it felt a little gross but... I guess I also have this experience, if I guess I must have run over or accidentally stepped on them as well. it's that's just I'm sorry, listeners, that it's really ⁓ trigger warning kind of gross, right? We should have said slugs. Yeah, gets really gross when they pop, right. And that was just, ⁓ yeah, I don't like it. But I also thinking we are probably a little bit privileged. Like I think if if I had like ⁓ Adriana: Yes, yes, yes. Lynn: lived in Australia or been grown up in Australia probably would have been a little bit more afraid of spiders maybe because I mean I think if things if you grow up with like knowing these things can kill you whatever it is I mean either you just either you're like insane and you're just like ⁓ whatever I still like you so maybe I would still be like that I don't know you know with fate but it's more yeah it's exposure you but you ⁓ Luigi: Mmm. Adriana: Thank Yes. Luigi: Or maybe the exposure. No, yeah, because I think I got I don't know the whole of Australia, obviously, but I have a fair amount of friends or acquaintances here that are from Australia. And whenever we talk about not that the topic of spiders come up comes up very often, but whenever we talk about spiders or whenever they witness a spider, they're very chilled. They're like, ⁓ because again, they become part of your environment, you stay away from them. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Luigi: mindful of them, but I guess it also helps you not being so afraid, I guess. Lynn: Yeah, because it's really harmless like all the spiders we have here in Europe. They don't do anything I mean, we barely have any animals that are dangerous to us as humans here in Europe. So Adriana: Yes. Lynn: really kind of privileged and ⁓ different kind of way of relating to animals. again, mean, we could talk about what humans usually do with animals that they're scared of, they kill them, right? So I mean, the wolves and bears, we used to have them in mid Europe. We still have them in Norway. But also here, the relationship is still a little bit iffy because, you know, some people, you know, they're still scared and then they're like, ooh, there's like a wolf pack around, you know, and then... people are like we need to protect the wolves and then the others like no speaking of which when i was a child it was wolves i think wolves was one of the animals always cats so black panther also when i was a child loved black panthers probably like the bagheera had a thing there the jungle book bagheera probably um yeah but the like i never i didn't see Adriana: ⁓ yes. Yes, yes. Lynn: Disney movies as much as you did Luigi when I grew up I wasn't so much into or wasn't always allowed either I don't know it was strange I was didn't see all the movies and but my grandmother used to read me the jungle book like the actual the Kipling original with like with the original Drawings in it. Yeah illustrations. I was the jungle book. So it was both Mowgli and Bagheera, but also the ⁓ Tiki Tavi Adriana: ⁓ yes. Yeah. Luigi: illustrations. Lynn: mongoose and all the other stories that were in this so ⁓ yeah i grew up on that yeah i i like that yeah Adriana: Yes. Luigi: ⁓ that's beautiful. The wolf is very fascinating as an animal and I guess it carries so much symbolism as well. But yeah, was wondering, because we did talk about spiders, but I was just wondering, even though a couple of you, specifically Lynn and Adriana said, I love all animals, but if you want to entertain the thought, is there any other animal that you can think of that you're kind of, quote unquote, petrified of? Lynn: Mm. Mm. Adriana: Yeah. Lynn: ⁓ yeah. Okay, Amelie I think was the first to definitely nod her head. So if you go first, petrifies you Amelie? Amelie: I absolutely detest ticks. They're the most useless bloody animal there is and I wish they could just get abolished. Like I absolutely hate them and I know that there's... that's yeah, yeah. just, it's such a nuisance. I mean, I'd rather be, know, have mosquito bites. ⁓ Lynn: ⁓ yes. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Yes. True. Luigi: That will count as pests. Parasites, yeah. Lynn: That's parasite yeah, like I'm on board. Yeah Adriana: Yes. Yeah. Lynn: Yeah. Amelie: anything and I know it's there's so many other scary animals around the world but I just feel like ticks and also because they're so tiny it's not like you can see them if you see like a tiger you can be like whoa you know and you walk around it you know you see a bear you're like okay kind of know but ticks Lynn: Unless it's in your face, it's like, ⁓ gosh. Amelie: Yeah, exactly. But ticks is just like, you just don't know. Yeah. it's just, Luigi: takes the invisible threat. Lynn: Yeah, yeah, I feel that really changed like when I was a child, like, mean, there must, I feel there weren't as many ticks around when I was a child, because you know, was just strolling around in the fields outside in the meadows and I would not get one. had one tick one time when I was a child. And I didn't even notice my mom noticed, right. But ⁓ I didn't have I wasn't scared. then Adriana: Yes. Lynn: When I got older and I got exposed to like, you know, you just sit somewhere like on a rock and then suddenly you see like ticks crawling around and you're like, ⁓ shit. And then I started getting this trepidation to being like barefoot in like the fields. It's like stuff that I love, but I was like, ⁓ or, know, going barefoot or with like short, like or so ⁓ the woods, because that's how you get ticks. So I got like scared of doing that, you know, and yeah. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: But that's also like because for me the the scary thing about ticks is because you know that the diseases they carry and they carry them often they can kill you. Yeah so this is one of those and like yeah so basically retract what I said earlier like we are quite privileged here but we still have animals that can kill us with the diseases and the ticks are one of those and that's why I yeah I very much do not like them. I've been more exposed now with my Adriana: Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Lynn: job as vet tech obviously we get you know ticks or I have a dog and have a cat but the good thing is now actually since getting a dog and he has tick medication so the ticks die on but since I have a dog he gets all ticks and they die almost immediately and I have not gotten a single tick on me since I got him so I got more relaxed I got a bit more relaxed about them Luigi: He's like a shield. Lynn: Yeah, he's a tick shield, really. Yeah. Amelie: Do ticks like dogs better because of the fur or something? Lynn: I think it's the heat. Yeah, I mean, they are attracted to heat and then they are lower to the ground and they're warmer and then it's much easier to hide. So I think they do attract them easier. We're not as attractive as prey and I think also because we're not as warm. So they would choose, probably would choose a dog over you if you're next to each other. But if you're leaning against a tree. Amelie: Okay, that's it, I'm getting a dog. Lynn: Yeah, but if you're leaning against a tree and there's one like crawling down, it's probably still gonna choose you. It's not gonna go around and then choose your dog, right? So, but I've not had a single tick on me and many that I pick out of him in in tick season. Yeah. Yeah. What about you guys, Adriana? Like, do you have a something that you're afraid of? Adriana: Plenty, all, most of them that are insects, know, ⁓ mosquitoes to me. And I go to Columbia, I attract, I think all the mosquitoes that are in the area. They come to me, you know, God them. ⁓ really, particularly that we grew up with the... Lynn: Plenty. Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ Adriana: apprehension of mosquitoes that give you malaria or they give you dengue or they can give you the other viruses like it was very famous in Brazil as well that is, you get dengue or you get malaria is extremely painful. It is a horrendous diseases, you know. ⁓ yes, I have that. I head lice, Lynn: yeah, lice. ⁓ Adriana: ⁓ that is something that is very creepy. You know, my son, when he was in primary school, he got them and I have nightmares that they were crawling on top of me and so on. ⁓ God. So, yes, insects in general. in a farm in Colombia, I couldn't sleep because in the tropics, there are so many insects that... Lynn: Ooh. Adriana: They're so ugly. Even the mantis, you are going to the toilet and you find a mantis there. You are going to pee and you are looking everywhere because they're attracted. At night time, you turn the lights on and it's like a welcome party for all the insects that you had never imagined they exist in the planet, but they are there. there was one night, I feel... Lynn: I was just waiting for you. Woo. ⁓ Adriana: I couldn't sleep. It was like a chunky noise, like crunchy, crunchy, crunchy noise. And I said, oh my goodness, what is in here? And I put a little torch and I light the torch and I checked where the noise was coming. I was on the wall next to my head because I could hear it. It was a cucaracha like this big. Amelie: You Adriana: eating another insect, the boring egg, crunchy, I could hear the crunchiness. Lynn: ⁓ god. That's nightmare fuel. Yeah. Adriana: I was with the torch, you know, making myself so small, you know, with the light, like the lightsabers of Wars, trying to kill her just with the light, ⁓ I was petrified of fear of that huge cucaracha eating that thing. And I could hear the crunchiness of that. ⁓ so yes, that when you are in a tropical country, believe me. Lynn: ⁓ yeah. Adriana: you are petrified of a lot of things, particularly insects, you know, yeah. Yes. Lynn: Mmm. Yeah, I bet. Amelie: I went to Nicaragua when I was way younger. stayed there for almost a month and we lived like in this village and stuff when yeah, the cockroaches there. I'd never seen such big cockroaches in my entire life. And there was another thing. ⁓ went into a city people you know, when you have like shops on one side and ⁓ like the in the middle. Adriana: Yes. Yes. Amelie: what they what the shop owners did, they were like kicking the cockroaches to the other side. So they would die on the other side. So they will get all the cockroaches over there. So it was like a thing like a game they play. And it was just so normal. I'm why? Why? Adriana: Yeah. this. Yes, ⁓ god. God, no. Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: Another thing is ants, in America you can find ants that huge. They are very big, you know. And my was telling me stories. He loves to us anyway. And he will say in the countryside he knew a man who was a drunkard. And he went walking back to their hut or whatever they used to live. and he fall asleep against a tree and the ants kill him, you know, because can bite humans and they release a poison, you know, and when you have millions of ants on top of you, when they found the man, he was completely covered of ants and he died, you know. So he was saying to me, don't go at night, don't asleep against a tree, Luigi: What was this a real story? Adriana: After my dad, was a serious story. no, and yes, and particularly father was a pilot and he was having like an airline that was flying to the Amazonian rainforest and everything like that. He took me once there I was petrified of all the insects I saw, the ants and the thing that I jumping all over the place. I didn't really enjoy it. I hated the Amazonian rainforest. ⁓ Lynn: Yeah, was this a real story or? Amelie: scorpions as well scorpions Adriana: Because it's like everything grows in quantities, you know, and it seems like everyone wants to feed from you. So it was, yeah, it was not very pleasant. the weather, because it's so humid, it's damp, it's hot, so you feel that you are and sticky, and all these insects is trying to get you. So no. Lynn: Yeah, it was scary. Mm. Mm. Mm. Adriana: No, it's not for me. No. No. Lynn: such a different world. find it so fascinating. We are from Europe, just Southern Europe, Northern Europe, ⁓ you're used to ours and then you bring always this world into the mix, growing up such a different place. ⁓ Adriana: What I love, yes, is like the iguanas the lizards and I them because they eat all the insects. So I'm so happy to see them ⁓ when around. but ⁓ is second, the most ⁓ biodiverse country the planet. So ⁓ obviously, Lynn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Uh-huh. Luigi: What's the first? Adriana: India, I think, or something like that, that is like 10 times bigger than us. But Colombia is, think, the most diverse in nature, in plants and in animals. So imagine you can find everything. And we are the 13 birds. Luigi: Okay. Lynn: Mmm. Wow. Mmm. Luigi: What about the UK is better down at the bottom? Lynn: ⁓ gosh, yeah. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: So yes, we have a lot of different birds. Yes, yes, yes. Lynn: There are so many, they probably count mostly insects, but there are so many insects that haven't even been found yet in the jungles and everything, right? every now and then they discover a new one. But yeah, I find these whole jungles so interesting because you do live very different lives. I have a friend, so this is not my story, but I have a friend who was from Puerto Rico and he grew up quite poor. Adriana: Yes, yes, yes, yes. So, yeah. Yes. Lynn: There's also these stories with animals they just had in the house because you just catch a parrot and then you have a parrot, you know, because why not? Or you have a you catch a monkey and you have a monkey because why not? You know, or an iguana. And he also told me like how amazing or interesting iguanas are. But fear was not so much the insects, but he is like, I mean, it's childhood trauma again, like related. But he told me that when he was very small. Adriana: Yes. Mm, mm. Lynn: their place, got flooded several times. So there were like, there were frogs everywhere. So he has like this trauma of like frogs. Yeah, so it's a bit different. You like them. For him, it was like really scary. Like if he sees frogs or snakes, because they remind him of that time and everything got flooded and they were everywhere. Plus there's poisonous ones, I think, as well. So it's like, you know, it's bit of a different story. Adriana: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Little frogs, are okay, but they are horrendous, are very horrible thoughts. The toads yeah, they are, the big ones, are so old and they swollen like that and so on. And in Colombia, we have the most poisonous frog in the planet. These ones, the little yellow ones that with the black thing like that. Lynn: Mmm, the big ones the bull talk like the big ones. Yeah ⁓ ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Luigi: So lucky. Adriana: So yes, but it's again in the rainforest. Lynn: Just lick it. Just lick it. Amelie: to say, ⁓ it reminds me what episode, was it either Futurama or no, ⁓ maybe it was Simpsons, was it? Lynn: think Futurama or the Simpsons. I also think either Futurama or Simpsons but I feel it's a very Futurama with the toad. There's something, they lick it and I feel it's a Futurama thing. I'm not sure. Luigi you didn't say, what are you scared of? Amelie: Yeah, the toads, the whole toad episode. Adriana: Luigi Luigi: I got... wait, let me think. So, specifically... And this is again childhood episode. Everything that you know, like... ⁓ Even though know that we need the honey bees, ⁓ but even I hear ⁓ the buzzing of a bee, I freak out. Because when I was... So bees, wasps, bumblebees, any other kind Adriana: Cheers. Yes. was. Luigi: be. ⁓ And wasps are very common as well in Italy, know, like, ⁓ especially in the summer, like, and they would choose ⁓ by the windows. So you're like trying to open the window to get some fresh air and then all of a sudden ⁓ nightmares are alive. ⁓ But I think it's because my mom and dad blessed them, I suppose. But ⁓ I was like four ⁓ either or three, I don't know, I was able to talk and walk. But Adriana: Yes. Yes. Yes. Lynn: You Luigi: It wasn't primary school years yet, so was very, very young and very, very susceptible. They were making honey, so they wanted us, my sister and I, to witness the making of the honey. But obviously, my dad had the uniform, know, like with the protection and everything else. My mom and I and my sister, we were just exposed like that. From the very beginning, mostly because I was a very lazy child and a very uninterested child, you know when they said like, come on, let's go, let's go, we were in the car and this was in the mountains and I'm like, you go, I'll stay here. Mostly because I didn't want to go anywhere. But at the back of my subconscious, I was like, something's bad is going to happen. Whenever you drag me in one of yours natural adventure, something bad always happens. And so I kicked a fuss because I was like, no, no, I don't want to go. I want to stay here. And they took me. Adriana: You Luigi: took us. ⁓ dad starts ⁓ smoke at them ⁓ the beehive ⁓ then all of a sudden they get very angry, very mad and they start chasing us. ⁓ whole swarm ⁓ chases and my mom and my sister. I tried block that out so I don't remember 100 % everything but I remember ⁓ hearing them in my ears or even ⁓ getting in ear ⁓ because there so many of them. Lynn: Yeah. Oof. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Luigi: it was very bad. that day, ⁓ time I hear the bzzzz Adriana: Okay. Luigi: yeah, think it's buzzing such as ⁓ bees, but I know that bees are important, but mostly like wasps and hornets, ⁓ and especially those chunky ones, you know, like, not like the Japanese ones, but ⁓ in Italy we got... Lynn: Mm. Luigi: we call them, and I think it's a nickname, I don't think it's the real name, horse killers, because the say is that one sting will kill a human and seven stings will kill a horse. So they're quite chunky and quite big, and when they buzz, it's like a concert. It's like a rave, almost. So they, used to be so scared. I still am, but I obviously don't see them much anymore because here, because of the cold weather, nothing can live. Lynn: wow. There you go, see them. Yeah. Yeah. Luigi: So it's them. And I'm not necessarily terrified, but I am mindful of it because, well, we were, you know, by the mountains, the vipers. So there was a genuine caution towards the vipers because in the northern mountains of Italy, there are quite a lot of vipers. And I don't know if they're deadly, deadly. I mean, I think if you get to the hospital, they can get you treatment. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: Yes. Yes. Luigi: But I mean, and I've never been bit either, but according to stories the bite of a viper can be quite serious. So yeah, that's something that always gave me anxiety as a child because we were like in that area. But naturally, know, snakes, they would, they're more afraid of you than you are of them. I think the only trouble is when they're having babies because they... Lynn: Mm. Luigi: can't move as easily, so if you stomp into their territory then you're gonna be in more danger because the snake will not move, so they'll try to bite you to protect themselves and the eggs. Eggs? Lynn: Yeah. or if you corner them. Yeah, they have eggs. Yeah, if you corner them and they have no way out, then they're more likely to attack. But yeah. Luigi: Yeah, in the wild it's hard to corner them because they can get anywhere but I remember that we were driving and there was something that looked like a stick but it wasn't, it was a pregnant viper and she was chunky, very fat I remember when we stopped, ⁓ dad went out and tried to deal with her but I was petrified because of all those stories I was like, we're gonna die, I'm not gonna see my seventh birthday, ⁓ not gonna live past, I'm not gonna see Spider-Man 2. Adriana: You Luigi: I'm not gonna get to see Spider-Man 2. Adriana: This is so beautiful. Lynn: Yeah, I agree with Adriana. I used to have a pet snake and that was mostly because I've never had a snake and I've always found them interesting and it was in a time where I lived in an apartment. that I wanted an animal but I couldn't like have anything like furry or not something that needs a lot of space so I was like yeah let's get a snake so I got a got a it's ball python in English I got a ball python and ⁓ and him because I mean they're so sweet that they're really social snakes and they really like like you're like warmth and he was very sweet personality and thanks to him ⁓ some the people I knew and that time they got over their fear of snakes because you know you get scared of snakes but then he's just like you know it's like I'm still scared and he would like he would like kiss your face and he was amazing ⁓ yeah now pythons yeah like they're like the the natural is like white with like a brown with the black and spots and like the white Adriana: Mm. Yeah. Luigi: looked it up to see what it looks like. Lynn: They were really cute and they curl up into a ball. That's why they're called ball pythons because they're scared of curl up. So yeah, ⁓ and also really they ⁓ they mean, it's very I think to be with animals that you don't ⁓ know very about or that there's not so much science about like we know obviously we know a lot about dogs because dogs have been with human beings for 10,000s of years and there's been a lot of you know stuff being about dogs not much many other animals and not really snakes either so it's like I know nothing you know I knew nothing of snakes so I got a book before getting a snake and I'm reading through the book and then I had a snake and then it's like this is very interesting and I would have not thought that they would actually be social animals you know it's a reptile it's something that's completely different from us mammals you know it's easy I think it's easier to understand another mammal than it is maybe to understand a bird or like a reptile. Luigi: aww Adriana: the I feel that the dogs are And there is a lot of as well, as you say, not only history and even scientific, but they have been part of a companion of the humanity for so many millennia that is as well esoteric and mystical and everything, you know, psychological approach to dogs that to me it sounds fascinating, know. ⁓ just few information that I didn't know that dogs in various mythologies, are considered psychopomps. Lynn: Hmm. you Adriana: Psychopomps Psychopomps means the guides to the underworld, or soul guides. like, protectors, these magic you know, so ⁓ we have Cerberus ⁓ we know Cerberus for Harry Potter as well. That, yes, ⁓ that is. Lynn: Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Luigi: I forgot you were on the ending. Lynn: I know from Greek mythology, I didn't know that it was in Harry Potter. Adriana: Yes, yes. But it's to prevent the death coming living Hades or the humans, the ones to go into Hades. do you know the three heads can represent the past, the present and the future? So I didn't know that. I didn't know Luigi: It's called something different. Not surprised. Adriana: Well, we have as well Anubis in Egypt, you know, that is often depicted, you know, like the black jackal that is the god of mummification and the afterlife that is acting as psychopomp. I love that word. ⁓ in love with that psychopomp. ⁓ Yeah, psychopomps! Lynn: Yeah, it's a great word. It's a great word. Yeah, yeah, I like it too. I like psycho pumps. Adriana: yes, who leads the souls to see the skull of justice, you know, but you might know that one in the Norse mythology as well, the Garm, that is the guard, that is the guard at the gates of the Helheim yes, I found that, ⁓ you know, dogs has been there part of the, Lynn: Got him. Adriana: history of humanity and it had very symbolic meanings as well in religion like Hinduism. The dogs, were sacred companions to several deities. is the vairava that is a form of Shiva who used a black dog as his vehicle symbolizing protection and loyalty. In the Mahabharata, the hero Yudhishthira refuses to enter heaven without the stray dog that followed him that evil revealed to be Dharma. you know, they go to righteousness. sort of Austrianese, dogs that were considered extremely pure and righteous beings, they have a ritual they both dog gazing at a deceased person to confirm death and to ward off of evil spirits. So I found like that as well in Buddhism, you had the four dogs as well that they represent the Yin and Yang, this the beginning and the end as well, all related as well to this. I found something little research about the pre-Colombian from Columbia. And there was the dogs in one of cultures and the Muiscas. they were associating the dog with afterlife and the elite. So just if you were of high society, they were burying you with your dogs in order for your dog to set a psychopomp again, by helping the others navigate the spiritual journey. Lynn: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Adriana: So I found that it was like another aspect of the dog that is not very well known, that is the sense of being the guardian between this reality and the afterlife, and ⁓ you into the afterlife. But ⁓ it was funny because... Lynn: Hmm. Adriana: You have other cultures that are completely intolerant towards dogs, like Islam, because they consider the saliva of the dog is not good for the purity ritual, for the prayers. Christianity as well, in the Bible metaphors to dogs as to the... Lynn: Mm. Adriana: outsiders and faithful or base instinct, know, so they were the unclean, you know. And just like a historical conflict in the region of like in Persia, now that is Iran, that's already, you know, the same conflict that we have nowadays. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: Persecution of dogs was sometimes used by the conquering Arab forces as a political tool to suppress the indigenous Soroastrian culture, because for them, the dog was held one of the most highest religious regard for these animals. Luigi: I guess like ⁓ some point, maybe not necessarily now, but because we were talking about dogs so much, it might be interesting to have a brief conversation about ⁓ fool's dog, maybe most popular dog out there for us. ⁓ Adriana: Yes, yes, yes, yes, Lynn: Yeah, I mean we have several dogs because the Fool doesn't have one right in the Thoth. But ⁓ we do have the... we have Cerberus Yeah, we have Cerberus in ⁓ the Thoth. the Hermit. Yeah, so there is a dog. But we have several... also a dog in the Ten ⁓ of Disks, isn't there? Ten of Disks is also dog in the Smith Deck. Yeah. Adriana: Yes, the fool has won, yes. Luigi: and in the hermet Adriana: The 10 of these, they have two dogs, yes? Yes. Luigi: That is, yeah. some some rumor that there's three and not even two of them. Yeah, that's another nice conversation. Adriana: Okay. Lynn: Is it though? Is it? Amelie: Maybe we should make an episode about animals in both Thoth deck and the Tarot. Animals in the Tarot. That would be interesting. Lynn: in the tarot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Luigi: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, to be noted. Adriana: So yes, so I think that every relationship that we build up as humans, have grew up with other species as well. And have, you know, created like mystical or spiritual or esoteric relationship or, you know, psychological relationship with animals. And that it will be fascinating to explore a little bit further ⁓ because are part of our psychic, it's part of our personality as well. Lynn: Yeah Hmm. Mm. Hmm. Adriana: We have as well as the Zodiac, they have animals, the Chinese, have animals, we have animal guides, and there is a lot of things that we can go in depth Lynn: Hmm. Hmm. Luigi: Will this be a good time though to reveal the card that you chose at the beginning, Lynn? What do you think? Amelie: Yeah, I think so. Lynn: ⁓ Let ⁓ me see. Yes, I guess it could be a good idea to reveal the card. It not a that has an animal in it, so that is no. ⁓ But I could, you know, I could have just cheated and I could have taken a deck. Luigi: No way! I was backing Mario there. Lynn: that has only animals in it because in that case there might have been but I didn't I could have thought about that earlier but I did not because bling ⁓ no yes we can cheat next time but I have a feeling it has a little bit to do with maybe animal I think it's like if I were to choose any animal that works with this card then it's what Adriana talked about Luigi: Mm. We can cheat next time. Amelie: Yeah. Lynn: Any ideas? No. Luigi: Snakes. No, horses. Oh, I got it wrong. Who's giving the third guess? You took a bow. No. Lynn: No, no. You Adriana: Big cow! Amelie: Is it a snake? Universe card, a snake. I know. ⁓ Lynn: No, no, no, no, you're thinking no, I think you're thinking to either to complicated or easy. Yeah, it's about dogs, but it's the three of disks. It's the three of disks. So, yes, which is all about, you know, cooperation, ⁓ together. And I think for all the animals we talked about, that is that would be like the dog, you know, ⁓ animal that has been Luigi: Dogs. ⁓ it's the free of disks. Adriana: The dog, yes, the dog. Lynn: cultivated to work with us humans for so many thousands of years in different aspects, like first as a hunter and a guardian, the dog still these jobs. We still have hunting dogs, we have protectors, guard dogs, and all these ⁓ different, you know, and now we herding dogs well. It came a little later in history with the herders. Adriana: Mmm. Lynn: But all that, yes. three of discs, ⁓ ⁓ Adriana: Yes, yes. Particularly that in the other deck is like the the Mason in the medieval church that the expertise of collaborating and working together. So yes, that is an association there of yes of progressing or creating things you know associated with a relationship or loyalty and fidelity. Lynn: Mm. Mm. Hmm. Adriana: Yes, excellent. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Lynn: Yeah, like, don't think, I mean, it doesn't only apply to dogs. I feel like we could like ⁓ and be like, you know, we should be cooperating. You know, we could also see this, that we should be cooperating with like, say like, humans, animals, I mean, we're also animals, right? But humans, animals and nature, you know, to make the world go and make it function because we all belong to the same ecosystem. We are all part of the same thing. Adriana: ⁓ Jesus. Yes. Mm-hmm. Lynn: And instead of fighting each other and destroying each other, if we were just to live in harmony, here's the shaman speaking, right? If we were just able to live in or the animist, I'm an animist, right? So instead of just, you know, being stupid destroying if we could just, you know, live together. Luigi: Yeah Lynn: I say live together in harmony is like a little bit, you know, it's a bit pink because if you look at nature, nature is quite cruel and it's quite harsh as well. But there's a balance in everything and there are symbiotic relationships and it works and it's not destructive. You know, you kill because you're hungry, you're not over killing because not for fun and not because of like things like, you know, war or whatnot, you know, it's your... Luigi: Yeah, and I think Adriana: But. But... Luigi: Mm. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: it's for food and there's a balance in all of it and if there's too much of say a rabbit then a lot of rabbits will be killed and also there's a balance again so it's there yeah just work together guys Adriana: But I think it's a... Amelie: also I find in this the Smith deck I also feel like it's about bats because in that ⁓ that darkness over there, there's loads of bats in there. I'm just saying, ⁓ of bats in there. ⁓ Adriana: Yes. Luigi: Hahaha Adriana: Yes. Lynn: Yes, that would be that. Yeah, that is that. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's probably a cat hiding behind the pillar, it's just ready to come out for somebody's stumble over. So yeah, absolutely. I agree. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: and mice and rats. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: Mm. Adriana: Yes. Luigi: I like what you said about the three corners of the pyramid, could very much be the vegetable, mineral and animal kingdom. Lynn: Mm. Adriana: Okay. Lynn: ⁓ that, yeah. Any last words? Luigi: now I really wanna get a dog, ⁓ know, I really wanna get a pet. After this conversation. Amelie: Ha ha ha ha. Adriana: you Lynn: I an extra because I found it but I have a deck right with me that has a lot of animals. ⁓ Again this is Stephanie Laws Verdance deck, her latest tarot deck. And here for the three of coins for her. sorry about that but it's these but they're buzzing in this one. They're not buzzing. There you go. ⁓ Luigi: Oisy bees. the nob as in the quiet. Amelie: Because they're worker bees. They're worker bees. That's why they're there, I assume. Lynn: Yeah, I think it's three different types of bees. So we have in the middle you have the queen bee and then you have a worker bee like a drone bee and you have a honeybee because in the bee hive you have different you also different jobs and you also work together in order to make your hive function. yeah. Luigi: Yeah. Amelie: The Queen Bee. Luigi: Hmm. Adriana: Mm. Amelie: I do like bumblebees though, I just find them so cute because in theory they're basically flying because they want to fly, because they're defying gravity. They're just so big, they're not supposed to be able to fly. But they really want to fly, so they fly. And I think that they're really cute. Lynn: Yes. Yeah. Adriana: Mmm. Lynn: And what does that teach us? What does that teach us? Maybe if you. We can do whatever we want. We just yeah. you really want something, if you really, really want something and don't. Yeah, eat the cake, just eat it. Don't believe what other people say. They're saying you cannot fly, you just. Adriana: There are no limits. There are no limits. Luigi: that we can achieve all that we want. Amelie: that it's okay to be a little bit plump. Adriana: Hahaha Amelie: Eat the cake. Adriana: Yeah. Luigi: We've been taught. Lynn: Maybe don't jump off a cliff, you know, don't do that. unless it's a magical cliff and you're the fool, you might try it. But still, do you really believe in it? Yeah, maybe just make it make it work for you. Luigi: Yeah. Lynn: All righty. So, mote it Well, thanks guys. That's for tonight's episode. We sidestepped a little bit and went into the animal kingdom. I think there was a really interesting insight from all of us with our favorite animals and probably revealed a lot of our psyche. Why we like the animals we like or why we're scared of the animals we are maybe scared of. Luigi: So what'd it be? Yeah. Adriana: Yes. Lynn: you enjoyed just drop a comment below, remember to subscribe and you all in the next ⁓ rabbit Bye! ⁓ Adriana: Mm. Bye. Bye. Luigi: Bye!