Latest / The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke / 170: Why Occupational Therapy Is Built for Quantum Biology The Missing Link: Why You Know What to Do (But Don’t Do It)

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170: Why Occupational Therapy Is Built for Quantum Biology The Missing Link: Why You Know What to Do (But Don’t Do It) · The Reverse Aging Club with Meredith Oke

0:00
Kristen Gilbert, welcome to the Quantum Biology Collective podcast.
0:04
It is a pleasure to have you here. Thanks, Meredith. I'm
0:07
really grateful to be here with you. Okay. So you have 10
0:11
years under your belt as an occupational therapist, and
0:15
you have such a, a unique take on it cuz you say that
0:19
occupational therapy is perfectly suited to champion
0:23
quantum biology. I love that. So tell us a little bit about
0:27
what kind of work you did and how you see those two things coming together.
0:31
Yeah, so I was originally drawn to occupational
0:34
therapy because of the breadth of this
0:38
profession. Like, what you actually do in OT can be
0:41
so broad, it can look like almost anything.
0:45
And as someone who has a really
0:48
diverse set of interests, this is super appealing for me
0:52
and I think if we were called functional therapists, that would
0:56
make so much more sense because I'm happy to
0:59
advocate for defining what OT is. Most people don't know what
1:03
it is, and it is such a valuable profession because what we
1:07
do is we meet people where they're at and we
1:10
assess how they're functioning in the world, and then
1:15
we get to work with them on— in the mental health
1:18
sector, what I've been doing for 10 years is so supporting people with
1:22
individualized goal setting, setting up healthy
1:25
routines. So with quantum biology and
1:29
circadian health, I have found this to be
1:32
absolutely foundational with my clients in public
1:36
practice, especially when we can start with
1:39
light hygiene. Because when I give people a pair of blue
1:43
blockers— and I have a loaner pair, you know— when I set them up with
1:47
that and when they can take it on to actually get outside in the morning
1:51
Sometimes with people who are struggling, we have to start whenever
1:55
you get up and slowly work it back to actual sunrise.
1:59
But when people take this on, inevitably they come back a
2:03
week later and they like, I feel like a different person.
2:06
Wow. Yeah. And that's just after one week of—
2:10
Yes. Light hygiene. Yes. And
2:14
circadian rhythm optimization. It's so powerful. I,
2:18
I I just continue to be amazed whenever I hear these stories.
2:22
We just, it's, we dismiss it, we ignore it, we don't really think about it,
2:26
but it's so, so powerful. It's incredible.
2:29
And so what I started to see over time in clinical
2:33
practice was like, I'd be helping people out, we'd set up
2:36
routine, incorporating their goals, it's individualized,
2:40
everything's going well, and then all of a sudden everything falls apart.
2:44
They're like, I, I don't know why, I just stopped doing all the
2:48
things. And so then I got really curious because that's
2:52
as far as the traditional OT skill set
2:55
extends. And I was like, what if there's this self-sabotage?
2:59
What if there are these deeply seated illusory
3:03
beliefs of lack of self-worthiness
3:07
that's really what's causing people to
3:10
sabotage their progress again and again. And so I
3:14
did Gabor Maté's Compassionate Inquiry
3:17
program. I studied that for a year and work with people
3:21
with addictions. And then I also took
3:24
somatic relational therapy, which is a, a branch
3:28
of somatic experiencing. And that has
3:32
been invaluable in terms of being able to work
3:36
with people through the nervous system and to
3:39
help them expand their capacity to hold
3:43
joy. Because we all have this upper limit
3:47
problem, right? It's a subconscious upper limit where we only allow
3:50
ourselves to feel so good. And usually this gets
3:54
dictated very early on in life. And as soon as we
3:57
bump up against that upper limit, there will be— the
4:01
sabotage comes in. Everything falls apart. We're not really
4:05
sure what happens. And I mean, I don't think anyone is immune
4:08
to this because so many people say, oh, I know I should
4:12
be doing X, Y, and Z. I know I should be going outside
4:16
at sunrise or eating a certain way, but
4:20
I tried that and I had a New Year's resolution and then it just
4:24
fell apart. Not sure why. Back to baseline,
4:27
which isn't really where people want to be, but it's where they end up.
4:31
And so this is really the work that I do with people,
4:35
is like, how can we create self-care
4:39
that facilitates coherence, right? And how
4:43
can we expand the nervous system to hold
4:46
this new rhythm of being as we integrate
4:50
with the rhythms of nature and our own rhythms,
4:54
you You know, how can we create this routine that supports
4:58
that structure that then allows people to truly
5:01
expand into the life that they
5:06
fully desire? I love that. And Kristin, it's
5:09
such an important piece. And I remember
5:13
years ago, someone, you know, one of my mentors using the
5:17
metaphor that it's like we've set like an internal thermostat to a
5:21
certain temperature. And no matter what we do, you know,
5:24
if we're trying to cool the house down and no matter how many windows we
5:28
open, our being is going to try and find a way to go
5:32
back to that. Cause that's where the thermostat, that's where the
5:35
thermostat is set. So the thermostat is set to
5:39
like, you can have like 33% joy, but no more.
5:43
It's like, no matter what, when we start to go back
5:46
past that, it's like, there's some kind of internal trigger that's like, no, no, no,
5:50
no, no, no. Yeah. And then mentally, intellectually, we're like, we would—
5:54
I would like to continue. I'd like to get to 40 or 50,
5:57
but it just feels like we can't. There's like an invisible wall.
6:01
Yes. And you bring up the head piece of
6:05
like, we know in, in our head where we want to go, but unless
6:09
we get our subtle body, unless we get all three
6:12
centers of intelligence online with this idea,
6:17
it's not going to happen. And we do that— I do that
6:21
work with people through the nervous system. And I know you've talked a lot
6:24
about the nervous system on this podcast, but
6:28
for me personally and with my
6:32
clients that I work with, so much of it is about slowing
6:36
down and getting current with what's actually
6:39
happening inside of us. And
6:43
So that's why we work on— I work with mindfulness
6:47
and breathwork practices to start to get to know, like,
6:51
what's going on in my body, because so many people
6:54
don't feel anything below the neck. And
6:58
when we can start to feel the body, you know, there might be a lot
7:01
of good reasons why the body is also— why we're cut off from
7:05
the body. But when we can start to drop into
7:09
the wisdom of the body, and when we can connect
7:13
to proper light cycles, when we can connect to nature,
7:17
when we go outside and we experience
7:20
entrainment with the Schumann resonance, when we
7:24
find this rhythmicity of being— this
7:28
is like the foundation for the nervous system to start
7:31
to settle. And the settling is required first
7:35
for us to then be able to expand our capacity
7:39
for joy. Beautifully explained. So the first
7:43
step, and this is really important, especially for people who work with
7:46
clients. I know so many like brilliant coaches and doctors
7:50
and they're like, I'm giving, you know, I have all of this
7:54
guidance for people that, but they're not doing it. So this
7:58
is really helpful. And, or I have guidance for myself and I'm not doing
8:02
it as you were saying. So we're talking about settling
8:05
and that's where— I was on a, on a clarity call the other
8:09
day with the doctor and talking about circadian rhythm. And she's like, well, will it
8:13
help with mental health? And I was like, yes,
8:16
yes, it will. Absolutely. Because what you're
8:20
saying is that first step is to slow and
8:23
settle into the rhythm of our bodies, which
8:27
is connected to the rhythms of nature and light. And
8:31
darkness. And like living in cities and our
8:34
hustle culture, like that promotes
8:37
dissonance. And then when we choose to go to
8:41
nature, when we choose to be in nature,
8:45
simply walking and breathing is such a tremendous
8:48
therapy because it's one of the ways that we can start
8:52
settling and slowing down. And this is
8:55
revolutionary, right? When we are programmed for hustle
8:59
culture and go, go, go, and You know, that's like a survival
9:03
strategy. But when we can come into coherence
9:08
with nature and with ourselves, this is an
9:11
evolutionary strategy. And for me,
9:15
learning how to belong to myself has been
9:18
absolutely integral in my own evolutionary
9:22
process. And I also— it's central to the work
9:26
that I do with people is this idea of belonging.
9:30
Beautiful. Yes, because that is also something I think
9:33
that holds us back. If we're going to change or grow, there's a
9:37
subconscious belief that will be
9:40
rejected on some level, or not— you know, if we are different from
9:43
the people who are around us, we won't belong there anymore. And also,
9:47
like, yeah, just on that note of hustle culture, you know, I have different
9:51
points in my life, you know, I really participate in
9:55
like what I call like the, the regular world, you know, where people are out
9:58
and they're networking and doing things and going to conferences and doing all
10:02
the stuff. And in my experience, it's like, it's not that you need to not
10:05
do that. People are like, oh, well, I don't want to move to a cabin
10:08
in the woods and never talk to anybody, so I'm not going to do this.
10:11
What— in my experience, if I can participate in what
10:15
you're talking about of the slowing down and building
10:19
that as the foundation of my life, then I can go out and
10:22
participate in the the more hustly-bustly type stuff
10:26
without being thrown into decoherence. It's when I— but if
10:30
that's my source, then the burnout comes.
10:34
Yes, yes, because a healthy nervous system is a
10:37
flexible nervous system, right? So when we can
10:41
settle and drop into rest and digest,
10:44
parasympathetic, then, you know, we can go—
10:48
and I feel it when I go to the city because I live in like
10:51
a small somewhat urban area, but when I go to like a big city,
10:55
I drive off the ferry and I'm like, whoa, and I
10:59
feel this stimulation of that. And I'm so grateful that I can go
11:03
back to the settled quality. And it
11:06
is about just connecting to nature everywhere
11:10
I go, for me. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I was on the
11:14
subway in New York City recently, which I
11:17
hadn't done something like that in a long time, and it was like really busy
11:20
time and the subway car was like packed with people and I was like,
11:24
oh yeah, this is— forgot about this.
11:28
But it was kind of fun because I, you know, sort of, I was grounded
11:32
and I was like, you know, in coherence and in my body and it was
11:35
like a fun adventure. So it's not that I can't, we can't
11:39
do those things, but it's, I guess, this awareness
11:43
that there's more. Yeah. And we all
11:46
long to belong. And when we go to nature, we belong
11:50
in nature inherently. And that's what
11:54
creates this coherence, right? It's like allowing
11:58
our physiological rhythms to
12:02
entrain to nature. And, you know, you spoke
12:05
to this external quality of belonging, and I think
12:09
belonging in nature This is why it's therapeutic. One of the many
12:13
reasons why is because we can entrain these
12:17
rhythms, but also when we do the inner work,
12:21
and this is one thing I've investigated a lot in myself,
12:25
is like learning how to truly belong to ourself
12:29
is an essential evolutionary
12:32
strategy for being a successful human in the
12:36
world. And that comes from
12:40
being able to steward ourselves through difficult
12:43
experiences. I went through quite a
12:46
devastating heartbreak almost 2 years ago now,
12:50
and I just felt like I was completely in pieces
12:54
for a long time. And I really leaned on my people.
12:58
I'm so grateful. I have so many wonderful friends that
13:02
supported me through— that, and there
13:06
was a part of that journey I really had to walk alone.
13:09
And I had to meet the
13:13
darkest, most scared, most in pain parts of
13:18
myself from my highest self and steward those
13:21
parts to really truly be with all the parts
13:25
of myself in order to put myself back
13:29
together. And this was an initiation. It was
13:33
a really important initiation because I did collude
13:37
in my own victim mentality with that for a long time, but
13:40
there's dissonance with that, right? And it's
13:44
like when I could truly meet myself with
13:48
care and compassion for the oldest
13:52
exiled parts of myself that were in so much pain
13:56
This was essentially just a
13:59
completely transformative experience in my life because
14:02
I really truly developed this
14:06
quality of self-belonging. And once you
14:10
have that, that cannot be taken from you. Once
14:14
you understand how to meet all the different
14:18
parts of yourselves, it's a skill, and it's
14:21
skill that I can now support others in
14:25
discovering in themselves. And that
14:29
was such a dark night of my soul, but I can say
14:32
I am so much better for it now, and I
14:36
have alchemized that experience
14:40
into my soul offering and my inspired
14:44
work. Yeah, you know, Kelly Ritter made the point to me that
14:48
often finding the right practitioner, it can be about
14:52
that person's specialized knowledge, but it's
14:56
often about finding somebody who
15:00
embodies where you need to go. Yes, because
15:04
a stronger biofield will
15:08
uplevel other weaker, weaker biofields around them,
15:12
right? And this is also, like, in terms of
15:15
quantum biology, we understand, like, we attract the
15:19
people that are meant to work with us, and that
15:23
is usually because we have these gems that
15:26
alter our biofield. It's all out there to
15:30
be perceived, you know, whether we're conscious of
15:34
that or not. But it really is
15:37
like— so much of the therapeutic relationship is about that
15:41
quantum resonance. And it's such
15:44
a beautiful experience when you click into that with someone
15:48
as well. It's like, for me, it's
15:52
nourishing, like doing this work with people. It doesn't take from
15:56
me. It doesn't— I don't take on other
16:00
people's stuff. I am able to— it
16:03
nourishes me in a way that maybe wasn't
16:08
possible before I understood things from the quantum
16:11
biology perspective, from the subtle body perspective,
16:15
from the perspective of the biofield
16:19
and how we carry trauma in our bodies. All
16:23
of these things— say more about that, because that's something that I
16:27
find so empowering about studying
16:31
quantum biology. I talk to a lot of
16:34
scientists and doctors who approach it from a very
16:38
almost materialist perspective, even though we're talking about things on
16:42
the quantum scale. But I feel like quantum biology
16:46
has the potential to be the bridge to give
16:49
that scientific foundation to the types of things that you're talking about, such
16:53
as the subtle bodies. Yes, absolutely.
16:57
Well, Eileen McKusick talks— about how we store
17:00
our trauma in our biofield. And so
17:04
this is one way of looking at it. There's so many different ways to look
17:07
at trauma and how we carry trauma and how we can
17:11
release it, which is amazing. There's just such a myriad of
17:15
ways. So we also store trauma in
17:18
our metabolic water, in our exclusion zone
17:22
water, and we don't have studies right now
17:26
to prove this. But we also know that we store it in
17:29
our fascia, which is likely in the metabolic water.
17:33
And as body workers— body workers will tell you, you can
17:37
press on a certain point and this flood of emotions come
17:41
back. And these things bubble up in order to
17:45
dissipate. But again, the nervous system has to be ready for
17:48
trauma release, because if things come flooding back,
17:53
then we end up— we can end up getting ensnared in them
17:57
again. And so we need to feel regulated and often
18:01
co-regulated for that to happen. But quantum biology gives us
18:04
so much information about the layers of our subtle
18:08
body as well. And I work with the
18:12
Enneagram with my clients, whether they know it or not. Usually
18:16
they know it. I like to introduce the idea. And
18:20
on a subtle body, body level, the Enneagram talks about
18:23
the three centers of intelligence. And we can
18:27
store trauma in the belly or the body center. We can store
18:31
trauma in the heart center where our emotional intelligence
18:35
resides. We can store it in our heads. And when we can get
18:39
all three of these centers communicating with each
18:42
other, first we need to bring them online, and then when they get to talk
18:46
talking to each other, then that is really when we
18:50
can release what isn't serving us and come back to
18:53
a regulated state and then move
18:57
forward in a new way, in a more whole way. And this work
19:01
happens in the subtle body. So when you're working with someone
19:05
to move through that, you know, we started out by talking
19:08
about raising the ceiling on our joy
19:12
capacity or our success capacity or our
19:16
financial stability capacity, or whatever it is. Those are probably the
19:20
big three, or health capacity. So you talked about that first
19:24
piece being to slow down
19:27
and integrate into our rhythm, which is connected to the
19:31
rhythm of nature, grounding, light and dark
19:36
cycles. So then this— the next phase is moving up through
19:39
these subtle bodies. Yeah. I think so.
19:43
And so I have a 6-week course that I've
19:47
designed, and in each week we learn— we get a different
19:50
lesson about quantum biology and circadian health, and then we
19:54
also get a different nervous system regulation
19:58
technique. And in week 2, we learn the
20:02
3 centers of intelligence meditation,
20:06
and initially We're simply tuning into these parts of
20:09
our body and becoming aware of what they
20:14
represent. And when I first started working with one of my teachers, whose name
20:17
is Carly Forrest, she was cueing us to
20:21
feel our belly. And this was an entire
20:25
retreat where I was like, what do you mean? I don't
20:28
feel anything. Like, I don't feel anything
20:32
in my belly. And then At the first retreat, I was kind of like,
20:36
yeah, belly, whatever, cool, see ya. And then I came back a year
20:39
later and she's still talking about the belly, and I was like,
20:43
okay, why can't I feel this part of my body? And I find
20:47
that curiosity is such a key
20:50
way in of like, okay, obviously I have a
20:54
belly, why am I cut off from my belly?
20:58
And from there opened up like so many
21:02
layers of social conditioning, you know, of like our
21:06
bellies, how they're supposed to look, you know, as women, all
21:09
this self-scrutiny. So these are like the
21:13
layers of trauma as they're peeling back that show
21:17
up when we start to steward these parts of
21:21
ourselves. So learning how to meet what was in the belly was
21:25
actually a process for me that took years.
21:28
And it's an incredibly valuable process because
21:32
our belly, it's like our gut instinct,
21:35
right? It's like when we just know something in our
21:39
bones, when we get that sacred no, I call it— the belly is
21:43
like the home to the sacred no. When we just get that zing
21:47
of like, nope, that's not okay. So it's home to our sense
21:50
of boundaries and it's also home to anger.
21:54
And so when we have a healthy belly, we
21:58
can really develop— we can be in
22:01
right relationship with anger, because anger gets
22:04
set aside in a lot of spiritual communities.
22:09
And it's a frequency, like, we need to have access to the
22:13
full range of frequencies. And one of
22:17
my Enneagram teachers was talking about being able
22:20
to feel and hold the totality of anger when it
22:24
shows up, to be able to contain that in the body, to not need
22:28
to put it on anybody else, but to feel
22:32
the powerful mobilizing heat of anger
22:35
in its totality. And, you know, the reality
22:39
is that emotions have a 90-second trajectory. So
22:43
if we develop the awareness to
22:46
meet ourselves in the experience that we're having, and we can
22:50
hold on— hold it for 90 seconds, we can trust
22:53
that zing of intensity will then move through
22:58
us in a very short period of time. And then we can be in
23:01
right relationship with anger, because anger shows up when boundaries
23:05
have been crossed. Like, it's a healthy emotion. It's
23:09
not healthy to get programmed into that frequency and run
23:13
that frequency. Right. It's not healthy
23:16
to get programmed in, to run on it, to use it as fuel,
23:20
and it's not healthy either to just ignore it, pretend
23:24
it's not there, but it is a powerful messenger. And I
23:27
love this so much because I think a lot of the time we hold
23:32
ourselves in a state of dysregulation or a state of
23:36
dissonance by unconsciously trying to avoid certain types
23:40
of feelings, right? Like our mind just like, oh, not gonna think that, or just—
23:43
and so we're in this continuous state of like avoidance
23:46
and duck and cover and like, because we can't just be with
23:50
the totality of it because it's like, I don't know how to have that feeling.
23:53
And so when we feel that little spark, it's like,
23:57
nope. So this practice you're describing, it
24:01
like opens us to feel the feeling, move through it and be like,
24:05
oh, I'm still here. It didn't kill me. I also didn't kill
24:08
anyone else. Like, I just sat here and felt it. And then
24:12
like our— that expansion process is opened up.
24:16
And I'm going to tell a quick story because I think this is like
24:20
so key on the anger piece. This was years ago, but I
24:23
got a piece of information about somebody who is
24:27
relatively close to me. And it turned out that there had been information that had
24:30
been withheld from me for a long time. And I— was told
24:34
it, and I was just like filled with
24:39
rage. And so at first— and there was a part of me that was
24:43
like, okay, like, this doesn't actually directly affect
24:46
you. Like, why do I feel so angry? And then it
24:50
was like, oh, because I have been doing things
24:54
I don't want to do to make this other person comfortable. I have been, you
24:57
know, and I had— all of a sudden I could see the whole, like, the
25:00
full dynamics of the relationship laid out and all of the ways that I played
25:04
into it. So as opposed to this being like, oh, that was
25:08
a dumb decision. Why'd she— like, it was like so
25:11
much more because— but it was mine,
25:15
not hers. Well, and way to
25:18
be curious first and foremost, and
25:22
then also take responsibility for your role in
25:25
it. Because when we have— when we avoid
25:29
these uncomfortable feelings, Often then we need
25:33
some numbing, we reach for numbing strategies in order
25:37
to cover them up. And even, you know, Gabor Maté
25:41
talks about depression being repression, is like
25:45
this pushing down of our human
25:49
experience. But when we have a regulated nervous
25:52
system, then we can come from a settled place,
25:55
get activated, and in these, like,
25:59
waves of resonance and resilience, come back to that
26:03
place and be able to get curious. Wow, that was a
26:07
strong reaction. What's underneath that for me? Because
26:10
that is an evolutionary strategy, you know. This is
26:14
how we learn, and this is how we become more whole
26:18
humans, is to be able to experience the
26:21
totality of what it means to be on this planet right
26:25
now. Yeah, and being on this planet right now is
26:29
like no joke. It's no joke. And if you're here listening to
26:33
a conversation like this, like, you are most
26:36
likely dialed right into it. It's advanced
26:40
practice being on this planet right now, right? And all the
26:44
more reason that we absolutely need
26:47
healthy self-care. We need circadian strategies. We
26:51
need to cultivate our own inner coherence to
26:55
be able to navigate what's out there. Like, the
26:59
world needs this work right now more than
27:03
ever. Yeah. And I think it was Julie Shauna was talking
27:06
about, like, stabilizers. She's like, I feel the call
27:10
for stabilizers. And when I hear you describe your work,
27:13
I'm like, okay, Kristen, is planting her flag as
27:17
a stabilizer. Yes. And you know, if you're listening
27:21
to this and you're like, oh, maybe I should, you know, work with someone like
27:24
that. Yes. And I think you're sharing your story of the heartbreak
27:28
was important because as you know, an author I
27:32
used to read a lot of a long time ago used to say like spiritual
27:35
growth isn't a pleasure cruise. But that word that you
27:39
used, initiation. I think is so
27:43
powerful because it gives it meaning. Yes. And for me, it
27:47
was an initiation into healthy attachment
27:50
with myself, which is another way of saying
27:55
self-belonging, because I had to own in myself that I had an
27:59
unhealthy attachment to this person, and that was what
28:02
was creating the suffering for me. And
28:06
the reality is, like, we are so good at creating our own
28:10
suffering And when we can get out from under the
28:14
victim mentality and see it, then we can
28:18
really empower ourselves to liberate
28:22
ourselves. And yes, most often we do need
28:25
professional support for that too. And it can be such a
28:29
beautiful process of co-regulation to be
28:33
stewarded through that by someone else. Yes. 'Cause
28:37
it's— once you enter that space where— and you put it so beautifully,
28:41
right? Like, all the parts of myself are okay, and
28:44
I'm not in disconnection from the
28:49
darkness, from, you know, the worst things I've ever done and
28:52
the worst I've ever felt and the worst I've ever been treated. Like,
28:56
I can meet them and make peace with them,
29:00
which then allows me to be of service to others.
29:03
Yeah, well, it's a way of— I think of it as filling in my own
29:07
holes. You know, if I have this like hole, this energetic leak where I'm
29:11
like asking somebody else to fulfill
29:15
something for me, then I'm like leaking them my
29:19
power. And so as we learn how to more fully
29:23
belong to ourselves, it's like we're sealing in these holes. We're like,
29:27
I can take care of me. I don't need somebody
29:30
else to do something for me in order for me to feel okay.
29:34
Like I can do that for me and I can tend to my
29:38
most exiled parts in a way that, you know, I have
29:42
a regular relationship with my inner child now. Like
29:45
we hang out, like we talk and I take her for ice
29:49
cream
29:53
sometimes. Which she loves, by the way. Yes. Yeah, they love that. Yeah. And
29:57
all— that's a beautiful part of ourselves as well that we've often
30:01
exiled. So you also have a strong background in music.
30:05
Yes. Let's talk about how music and
30:09
rhythm play into the rhythm of nature and the rhythm
30:13
of everything we've been talking about. Yes. I love this. Thank
30:16
you for bringing this forward, Meredith. Music
30:20
is absolutely like my lifeblood. Like,
30:24
I don't know where I would be without music. I actually have
30:27
an undergrad in classical music,
30:31
and there's an interesting story of
30:35
self-belonging with music, because when I was in music school,
30:38
by the time I was done classical music school, I felt like
30:42
it had just ground the love out of it for me. Like, I was— I
30:46
could produce on command, I could learn songs written by dead guys,
30:50
I could complete all my assignments and get honors and all
30:54
that, but it just became dry for me.
30:57
And then I left classical music, and
31:01
then 10 years— were you, were you the singer or a musician, or did you
31:05
play an instrument, or what was your— I'm a piano
31:09
player. Okay. And I did education and composition
31:13
majors at U of T, so it's a very competitive music
31:17
school. Wow. Okay, for the non-Canadians out there, Kristen and I
31:21
are Canadian. Yes. The music program at University
31:24
of Toronto is top tier. That is no joke. All right.
31:29
Yeah. Rigor. A lot of rigor, but not a lot of soul is what I'm
31:32
meaning. Yeah, absolutely. And then about 10
31:35
years later, I just felt this call to learn how to DJ
31:39
because I'd been going to festivals and enjoying electronic music. And
31:43
I was like, I really want to express myself in this
31:47
way. And having had all the classical
31:51
background, it was just like, it began this process
31:54
of belonging to myself by doing something completely
31:58
different. Didn't really have anything to do with classical music. I was like, this is
32:02
just for me. This is for me. And this feels so good
32:05
and I love it. And I love performing. I
32:09
love facilitating an experience. And on the
32:12
surface, yes, DJing might seem like, seem like it is not so
32:16
quantum because you're up late, you're
32:20
in environments where there's blue light, you know,
32:23
there— you're pushing your body. But what's
32:27
magical about it is like kind of being
32:30
the driver of the spaceship and facilitating an
32:34
experience of oneness through rhythmic entrainment for
32:38
people. Oh, what a great description of
32:42
DJing! It has been a minute since I— actually, no, that's not true. I was
32:45
going to say I haven't done that in a long time, but that's not true.
32:48
I went to a music festival last spring and did that. Yes,
32:51
it's amazing. And I just— a quick note, like, it's not quantum in
32:55
the sense that we are, you know, it's out of alignment
32:58
with circadian rhythm, but I do think participating in really
33:02
high vibe activities is worth it and balances it all
33:06
out. So. Absolutely. And, you know, talk about
33:10
belonging, like the festival community. There's so
33:13
much belonging there. There's so much communion. And
33:17
what's happening with rhythmic entrainment is like all of
33:21
our nervous systems are getting entrained to the
33:24
same rhythm. And this is a very real phenomena. It's
33:28
like similar to if you take a whole bunch of grandfather clocks and you put
33:31
them in a room together and all the pendulums are
33:35
swinging in different directions, an hour later, you'll go back to the room,
33:38
and all the pendulums will be
33:42
entrained. And that is a quantum phenomena. And
33:46
that's what happens to our bodies when we're on a dance floor.
33:49
And then we can also look at things from
33:53
the perspective of our metabolic water.
33:56
And I've been delving into Cymatics lately,
34:00
which is so cool. It's such an amazing science to
34:04
have a visual representation of the
34:07
frequency of sound. And knowing that
34:11
we're 75% water by mass,
34:14
but 99% water by molecule,
34:18
knowing that our internal waters are
34:21
literally responding to frequency in a psychedelic way.
34:25
And that we're all experiencing that, no
34:29
wonder it's so powerful. It's so, so cool. That's
34:33
so cool. Yeah. And so there's another piece
34:36
to the music story that I'd like to tell, which
34:40
is a reclamation that's happened this year
34:43
that is also a part of more fully belonging
34:47
to myself. So I got a free piano, a a
34:50
few years back, and I started toiling around after
34:54
20 years of not playing piano. I was like, I'm just gonna
34:58
lift pop songs, I'm just gonna keep it fun, I don't want to play songs
35:02
written by dead guys, I just want to do this for
35:06
me. And— but then I was realizing I was not super inspired to
35:09
play on that instrument because it wasn't really a quality instrument. And then
35:13
a friend of mine bought a grand piano
35:17
this spring or earlier this year, and I went over to his house
35:20
and I played his grand piano, and I was
35:24
like, oh my God, I was like, oh,
35:28
actually, I think I need a grand piano. And I had told myself
35:31
all these stories about how I couldn't have
35:35
a grand piano. Like, I've always wanted a grand piano as a
35:39
piano player, and I just told myself all these— I had all
35:42
these reasons why I couldn't have one, and then I just realized that it was
35:46
all BS, and I was like, I'm gonna buy myself a
35:49
grand piano. Good for you, Kristen! I love to hear
35:53
it. Okay, yeah. And so I went, I found my— I drove
35:57
all over the island trying to find the piano, and I went to the
36:00
mainland ultimately and bought an incredible
36:04
piano. And I bawled my eyes out as I was
36:08
driving home. I was like, I can't believe I actually did
36:11
that. And it has been such a reclamation to have
36:14
an exquisite instrument to play. It's
36:18
been like— like full body chills with this. It's so good.
36:21
Yeah, it's just been so incredible to sit and
36:25
play and reclaim these old parts of myself, with my young self
36:29
that just loved to play music and then just got really
36:33
separated from that and Now I just— I play
36:36
my piano every day and I'm so in love with it
36:40
and it's just for me. It's so beautiful. I
36:44
just am ecstatic and it has turned out to be a
36:47
gift to my community as well because I've already had
36:51
one piano concert and everyone was so excited to
36:55
come. Like, they were like, piano concert, sign me
36:58
up! Yeah, so I had 30 people come over and we all
37:02
just cozied up and people were just like smiling and
37:06
their eyes closed and listening. And, you know, DJing is
37:10
about the body, it's about the booty. Piano is about the
37:14
heart. And I really saw it received in like such a
37:18
beautiful way. And so it's been
37:22
amazing. I have a grand piano now. What a gift
37:25
to yourself. Like, and that's You know, I mean, we started
37:29
out talking about increasing our capacity
37:32
for joy, and this is just the most perfect
37:36
story to illustrate that, is to give yourself this gift
37:40
of this exquisite instrument and to play it
37:43
just for fun. Mm-hmm. To
37:47
experience the beauty of music. And so I actually— I got
37:51
the Symascope app. Oh, great. After
37:54
I listen to your episode with Jon Stewart Reid, and then I'll put that
37:58
on my piano while I play, and then I kind
38:02
of like, what? And I look at it, so I just— oh my
38:06
God, that's so good. And I think it would be so fun
38:09
to like next piano concert actually like put that
38:13
up on a big screen for people
38:16
to witness as like, this is what's happening inside
38:21
you. When you are in training to this specific
38:25
resonance. Yes. Yeah. Oh, Kristen, you might
38:29
have just invented something
38:32
here. Cymatic— cymatic piano
38:36
concert. It's gonna happen, I can feel it. Yes.
38:41
Yeah. And, you know, I just also want to say, like, how beautiful it is,
38:44
like, to have— to have your community gathered
38:48
around the piano, like, that's— I mean, that's what we
38:52
used to do. Yes, I saw, I saw, like, of
38:56
course, you know, on, on
39:00
Twitter/X, on my screen, but somebody had put a little cartoon from when the radio
39:04
was first invented, and there was a, an illustration
39:07
on the left of all of these people standing around the piano. Someone played
39:11
and someone was singing, and then The illustration on the right, they were all
39:15
just sitting on the couch listening to the radio, and it was like, technology
39:19
is destroying
39:23
community. Yes, I mean, this is what we've done for thousands of years,
39:27
is gather, especially in, you know, it's the dark season
39:30
right now. We get together and we
39:34
gather by the fire. I actually have a wood stove in my space as
39:38
well. And— Oh, nice. And there's infrared
39:42
light. You've got it all covered. Infrared. I've got all these like
39:46
red strip lights decorating my space, and so it's
39:49
all totally circadian. And for people to come
39:53
and again let their bodies entrain to
39:57
that magical resonance, it's like such a
40:00
beautiful gift to offer people. And it feels like a
40:04
midlife transition, you know, because I have been
40:07
DJing and festivaling and dance partying for so
40:11
long. And I was really pleased with
40:14
people's enthusiasm about the more
40:17
quiet, contemplative, heartfelt piano
40:21
experience. Yes. And do you play all kinds of music,
40:25
like classical, pop, all of it? I do. Yeah.
40:29
Now I play whatever I want. I love
40:32
it. Yeah. No more rules.
40:36
Yeah. So I wanna just reflect back, you know, talking to
40:40
you, I'm really seeing something that I don't see all
40:44
that often, which is like— which
40:48
is the expansive,
40:51
creative, woo-oriented, um,
40:55
approach, but combined with like quite a lot of rigor and
40:59
structure and discipline.
41:04
And I, I think sometimes we make those
41:08
things a little mutually exclusive or compartmentalized, right?
41:12
And if it's like, if I'm the person who needs all— a study
41:15
to prove every single thing all the time, then
41:19
I can't go— I can't go into any of the spheres, you know, that we've
41:23
been discussing here. Or on the other end, sometimes it's
41:26
like, well, if I live in this creative,
41:30
intuitive, energetic space, like, I can't I can't go over there
41:34
and like put any structure or rigor around it, 'cause it'll wreck it or
41:38
something. And, uh, you're just like a really nice example of how
41:42
that's not true. Yeah. You know, my best friend, she
41:46
likes to make collages and she made me this collage card
41:50
for Christmas, which has like colorful zebra
41:53
print in the back and then like half
41:57
monk face to here. And then like party
42:02
girl. I was like, wow, you see
42:06
me. And you know, it's like, this is a— I love
42:10
paradox. I love uniting opposing ideas.
42:14
And like, you can be disciplined and
42:18
wild at the same time. You know, we can embody
42:21
these opposites because then we can also
42:25
occupy anywhere along that continuum, and we
42:29
don't do ourselves any favors when we put ourselves in
42:33
boxes, you know, and we compartmentalize things of like, oh, I'm like
42:37
this, so I should do X, Y, and Z.
42:40
And really it comes back again and again to like
42:44
touching into what is it I re— what is it I need right
42:48
now? I need an early bedtime for the most part.
42:52
And then every once in a while I can push myself. And go out
42:56
and have fun and get fed in a totally different
43:00
way. Because I find being in the boxes is like
43:03
a way where things get dry, like they did in classical music
43:08
school. And I've always just
43:12
really followed my interests. And when I get interested in something,
43:16
I go— like, I go for it, and I go down that
43:19
rabbit hole, and I go down the whole way. And
43:23
my curiosity feeds a lot of different parts of
43:28
me. I have a little saying, nothing like a little obsession to get the job
43:33
done. Absolutely. Yes. And it's
43:36
like sometimes we are a little obsessed and mono-focused
43:40
on something, you know,
43:43
like it's, you know, in get— starting a new habit or getting through a tough
43:47
time or whatever it is. Oh, we don't— yeah, but it's a
43:51
little obsession. I love that. Yeah, it's like, it's okay. And then we go back
43:54
to, you know, being a little more balanced. Yeah, but we have to be open
43:58
to all the different ways of being because they all have their
44:02
role at any given moment. Yes. And
44:05
working with the Enneagram has also really taught
44:09
me how to be a more well-rounded human
44:13
because that little obsession could— can
44:17
burn, burn us out, as you know, right? If it gets out
44:20
of control. And so through working with the Enneagram,
44:24
I've really developed like such a
44:27
deeper understanding of how to slow down and
44:31
what was driving the obsession, what
44:34
was driving the busyness, the
44:38
constant distraction. The constant productivity. Like,
44:42
we cannot be constantly productive. You know,
44:46
we look to nature and we look at the ocean and the wave, it
44:50
crests and it builds and then it falls.
44:54
And when we can— we can't just push and push and push and
44:58
push and expect our lovely bodies to keep performing
45:02
in that way. They're just at a certain point, they're going to be like, uh,
45:05
excuse me. So
45:09
again, coming back to the rhythms of nature,
45:13
coming back to like, what am I feeling
45:16
right now? I feel tired. I'm just gonna go lay on
45:20
my daybed and close my eyes for 5 minutes, and
45:24
I'm just gonna honor my hard-working body's
45:28
need for rest right now. And like, just
45:31
that practice has been so revolutionary for
45:35
me of like, when I'm tired, I
45:40
rest. When I'm hungry, I eat. When I have to
45:43
go pee, I go pee. I don't like override my
45:47
body and wait, you know,
45:51
and to, to be able
45:54
to truly slow down in order to catch up with myself because our
45:58
bodies need us to slow down in order to feel what's
46:01
actually happening, that's been one
46:05
of the greatest gifts of self-belonging for
46:09
me. Yes. Yeah, and back to that
46:13
slowness piece, which is so, so key
46:17
and challenging for some of us who are always— have a lot of
46:21
things we want to be doing. But yeah, you reminded me too, like, irene lyons
46:25
is like, regulating your nervous system is kind of boring.
46:29
Like, like, you got to be like— it's, it's
46:33
just be sitting still. And like what you're saying, it's like, you
46:37
know, you're— I feel like always wanting to
46:40
be stimulated and productive. It's like, take those things away
46:44
and it's like, ah, but then move through that and you
46:48
get to a new place. Yeah, we're so addicted to our
46:52
phones, you know, and they're designed to be addictive. It's like as soon as we
46:55
sit down and we don't have anything to do to do. There's such a strong
46:58
compulsion to just like pull out the phone and scroll and doom
47:03
scroll. And when we can just go, okay, just leave that just
47:07
for a minute— like, the phones are
47:11
constantly programming our nervous system. We know that blue light
47:15
stimulates cortisol. We know that we get a dopamine
47:19
dump when we're scrolling, when we're on our phone too much, like
47:22
We need to keep that dopamine. And so it really is
47:25
a revolutionary act to choose to go,
47:29
I'm just gonna sit here and be a
47:36
person. I'm just gonna like human it up for a minute.
47:40
Yeah, be a human being, not a human
47:43
doing, right? Yeah, so good. Um, okay,
47:47
before we wrap, if you could just give a quick overview of the,
47:51
of the Enneagram, because I realize people might not know what that
47:55
is, and you seem to have a very, uh, interesting approach to it.
47:59
So yes, I love the Enneagram. It
48:03
is at first glance a personality typing system, and maybe you
48:07
did a test at one point and be like, I'm a 2, or
48:11
I'm a 7, or whatever. I think I was a 9. I
48:15
I think. Yeah, I could
48:18
see that. So, tracking? Yeah. Uh, but to me,
48:22
the Enneagram is a psycho-spiritual map designed
48:25
for personal transformation. Okay. And it was created
48:29
by mystic psychiatrists, which is not
48:32
an oxymoron, in the '60s and '70s in
48:36
South America and brought to
48:40
Berkeley Bartó Eszilén by Claudio Naranjo.
48:44
And it is a living map that
48:47
really shows us how we go to sleep. It's
48:51
shadow work, and, and your type is very much based in what happened to you
48:55
in your early holding environment as a very young person
48:59
and how that shapes you. And the idea is that
49:02
our personality is how we go to
49:06
sleep. So our personality is made up of these strategies that
49:09
we developed in order to hopefully
49:13
get our needs met in that early holding
49:17
environment. And as a parent, you know, like, there's no possible way that
49:21
you can attune to all of your children's needs. And this is the
49:24
human condition, is that we get separated from our
49:29
essence as the personality construct forms as
49:33
a survival strategy. And
49:36
if as adults we're still defaulting to the
49:40
survival strategy that we developed when we were 3, you could see
49:43
that that can cause problems, especially if
49:47
we're just going to sleep and doing the same things over and over again. And
49:50
so the Enneagram shows us how to wake up.
49:54
And whenever you're studying the Enneagram
49:58
you are doing presence practices every day, like the
50:01
three centers of intelligence, because the Enneagram
50:05
says, if you're a Type 7, then
50:10
you may be numbing through busyness and being go, go,
50:13
go. And the Enneagram will show you how
50:17
to recognize those cues in yourself and how to do
50:20
it differently. So the example I just gave
50:24
of choosing to notice when my body is tired, instead
50:28
of pushing, pushing, pushing, and being able to
50:32
rest. That's a simple example.
50:35
And for me personally, I think the Enneagram
50:39
has supported me more than anything else
50:43
in my personal growth, and in becoming a more
50:46
well-rounded human, because the idea is that we want to return to our
50:51
essence, As adults, we want to return to embodying this essence
50:55
that is our birthright, and
50:59
that when we can be present and
51:03
respond in situation, whatever it is,
51:07
with presence rather than defaulting to
51:10
the sleeping automatic way of doing
51:13
things, then we can expand our capacity for
51:17
joy. We can expand our capacity to be here. We
51:21
can come from a regulated place. And
51:26
so there's so much nuance with the Enneagram, and I love talking to
51:30
people about it. And when people do a Rise
51:33
and Shine course, we do get into it. We get into three centers
51:37
meditation. We start to talk about the ways
51:41
that— the patterns of like, oh well, That's a 9 pattern, what
51:45
you're experiencing, and this is how we can recognize it
51:48
when it shows up and have the freedom to choose
51:52
something different. Yeah,
51:56
the freedom to choose, and
52:00
yeah, the— to have a template that supports
52:04
us towards that freedom is so invaluable. So thanks
52:08
for sharing about how that works. Uh, I'm gonna go
52:11
back now and see. It's been— it was a long time. And it's funny, when
52:15
I was doing my executive coaching training, I remember I picked
52:19
like a really— somebody who was like very different from me so I
52:22
could cultivate like different— a different, you
52:26
know, just capacity and parts of myself. And he was like a very kind
52:30
of blunt, gruff, you know, and he'd be like, all right, so this is
52:34
executive coaching. We're here, though, we're talking to business people. He's like, if you're here
52:37
with like some Enneagram shit or something like that, this is not good. This is
52:41
not This is not the place for you. And I remember being like,
52:45
okay, well, I love the Enneagram, but I will keep that to myself for
52:48
this training. Oh, great.
52:52
And he was, he was great. I learned so much from him and he made,
52:55
he made me a much better coach, but that was just reminding
52:59
me of that moment. He's like,
53:02
oh, funny. Uh, um, okay. So
53:07
you. You know, you spent 10 years in occupational therapy
53:11
working in public services, and you have now shifted
53:15
over to become a private practitioner. Yeah. So
53:19
tell us how we can find you. You are certified by the
53:23
Institute of Applied Quantum Biology as, as one of the pieces of
53:26
the many pieces that you bring to your work. Um,
53:31
so lead us there. Help— help the people find
53:35
you. Thank you. Yeah, my website is my
53:38
name, kristengilbert.ca,
53:41
and I also have a YouTube channel
53:44
called Sunhunter_CV. That's short for
53:48
Comox Valley, where I live. I have a bunch of free
53:52
meditations on there, and, um,
53:56
also doing a free sunrise challenge starting
54:00
March 7th and guiding people with that, just encouraging people to get
54:03
out for sunrise, taking a little photo, posting it in the
54:07
WhatsApp group. So nice and sweet and simple.
54:11
I have a course that I've taken 5
54:15
years to design, and it's gone through many iterations,
54:19
and it's solidified more in the last 6 months. So I call it
54:23
Rise and Shine. Nice. And Over the course
54:27
of 6 weeks, people learn all the basics
54:30
of circadian health and quantum biology, and they also
54:34
learn 6 different nervous system regulation
54:38
strategies. And that's like the foundation of
54:42
what I want to establish with people. And then beyond
54:46
that 6 weeks, the work that we do together is the
54:49
more individualized work of What's holding us
54:53
back? What's limiting the amount of joy that we
54:57
can experience? How do we slowly
55:01
expand our nervous system in an integrated way to be able
55:04
to hold these bigger experiences and really
55:08
give ourselves permission to live the life
55:12
that our heart truly desires? So I'll be
55:15
doing that as an online group. Starting at the end of March.
55:19
So if you want to get on my email list, and you'll— I'll be letting
55:23
people know when these things are starting, and I'd love to have
55:27
you. Gorgeous. So that's
55:32
kristengilbert.ca, and it's Kristen, K-R-I-S-T-E-N, Kris-ten Gilbert, dot
55:35
ca. Uh,
55:43
Kristen, thank you so much for being here. This has just This has been
55:47
a really beautiful, expansive
55:50
conversation, and I know that just listening to it is
55:54
gonna be helpful for so many people. And thank you all for listening
55:58
and tuning into this. Sometimes I'm having these chats
56:02
and I'm like, oh yeah, other people are going to listen to this.
56:05
Thank you so much for having me, Meredith. It was really beautiful to connect
56:09
with you. Okay, well, we will do it
56:13
again. Wonderful.