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From Musician to Filmmaker: Ben Phan's Creative Journey · Epic Entrepreneurs

• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I am super excited I've got Ben from Ben Fon Audio on with us.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I got that wrong, didn't I?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: It's Ben Fon Studios, my apologies.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: So Ben Fon Studios, he does audio and video, obviously.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So, ben, welcome to the show.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks, bill, thanks for having me.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Ben, tell us a little bit about your business and how you came to be here.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Thanks, bill.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I run a video production company, so we do a wide range of productions, from documentaries, music videos, commercials, and our specialty is really telling stories.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: That's what I care most about All right.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about the stories.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's obviously a hot topic and you know we, as communicators and as consumers of communication, we resonate with stories.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about that, the whole story thing.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: So you know, for me, a big theme in my life is resilience.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: So stories of resilience, stories of people overcoming great odds, you know, difficult situations, overcoming that, stories of resilience, that's what I really really find inspiring, really really find inspiring.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, even within other contexts, I think there's still always a human message and that's at the core of what we try to do with our video work.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So tell us about the resilience part.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So my, my dad came over from Vietnam in 1975.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: He escaped the war, came here, you know, became, eventually became a citizen, worked really hard to give me the life that I had.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: So that's something that I've always appreciated and not taken for granted.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I try to tell, use my skills in a way that can help support and help shine light on people who you know might not otherwise have that support and help shine light on people who you know might not otherwise have that.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I think resilience is I mean, I don't know persistence, resilience, whatever you want to call it has definitely been a theme in my life, that's, you know, when I first started in business, it was all about persistence and just hanging in there and just showing up and doing those kind of things.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So about persistence and just hanging in there and just showing up and doing those kind of things, so, um, all right, so I got that.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: So you tell stories and you do that a lot of ways, it sounds like.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: So how'd you get in this business in the first place?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so actually I was a professional musician for 10 years before I got into video production and the the story behind that is I was hiring videographers, to you know film bands I was in and you know, sometimes they'd be filming the bass player while the guitar player was taking a solo and, you know, not understanding the music, and I thought, let me learn a little bit about this, and I ended up starting by writing and directing my own music videos and then eventually I just realized that what I really loved was the whole process of, you know, audio visual storytelling, and and I also kind of grew out to where I didn't really want that attention on myself anymore and and to be on stage.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I wanted to help, you know, bring others to to the stage.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: That's super interesting.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I have another client that was 10 years doing it, being a professional musician as well.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: He's actually in the financial planning space now, but he still plays.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: He still gets out there and plays some stuff and joins some bands.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: He's in a band now, so I don't know if it ever leaves you, do you still play at all?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: I do a little bit, mainly private events.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what's your instruments?
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Guitar and voice.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I got it, okay.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome, that is awesome.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting how one career can lead to figuring out what you really are supposed to be doing, absolutely, and how you can.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: You just said, hey, I can do this better, and that was.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what you just said, right?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Editing a video is very similar to like composing music and recording music.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: It's all about tension and release and build up, and so there's a lot of skills that transfer.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Cool.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So let's switch gears and talk a little bit about business here.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: If you had to start over in business, what would you do differently?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: What would you do differently?
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Hmm, that's a good question.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't really know how to answer that, and maybe that's a good thing.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I I think that things have evolved, you know, really naturally for me, and during times when I felt like things were difficult, it was because you know I needed to make a shift in the direction that I was focused on.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And you know, I'm still and I'm still learning a lot.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: But ultimately, I think putting the relationships first and putting the people first and following my passion is how I continue to thrive.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that theme.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I love the relationships first and following the passion.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe you wouldn't have done anything differently because there's no way you could have.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And gotten to where you were.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was just the path that was meant to be all along.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'm not somebody who says no regrets.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I definitely have a lot of regrets, but also I love where I'm at now, so I wouldn't change anything if that makes sense.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: No, I understand.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people wouldn't change anything.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But if they had to do it over again, maybe there was a shortcut or an easier way or something, Right?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: But I don't know in your case that there is.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like it.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: There probably is, but for some reason I'm drawing a blank.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: No, it's all right, it there probably is, but for some reason I'm drawing a blank.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: No, it's all right, it's all right.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: So what have been some of your biggest learnings in business?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Well, being an artist and a creative, you know, I've had to look over my contracts that I'm sending and you know, doing my tax payments, estimated tax payments throughout the year, things like that that you know I would not call say I'm passionate about, but things that you have to do to, you know, to function.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I understand, no, I understand.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So what are some common misconceptions about running a business?
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, I'm not sure.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, I'll say one you know for being self-employed.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I think people think if you're self-employed, you don't have a boss, you're your own boss.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: That's so true.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true to a certain extent, but the reality is, every one of my clients is my boss, you know, at the end of the day, so I can, I can, you know, create my own schedule and say when I'm available or not.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: But you know, if I have a different creative opinion than one of my clients and they're you know, they're hiring me to make a video for them.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Ultimately they're going to, they're going to get the say, the final, say so.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Everybody thinks they're going to like a lot of people go into business because they don't want to work for somebody else, but you end up working for your clients and your team and your whoever I mean you're going to.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: There's always accountability.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So what do you attribute your growth to?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: I think, a combination of things, one pursuing what I'm interested in, and I think that that is one of the biggest ways for me to prevent burnout following my passion.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: And and to you know I think I'm I'm scrappy to a certain extent, like I told you about my dad coming here and, you know, didn't not speaking any English and just figuring out how to make it work.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I think that some of that's been passed on to me.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So, you know, didn't not speaking any English and just figuring out how to make it work.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I think that some of that's been passed on to me.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: So, you know, throughout some of the hard times, like COVID, or coming through the hurricane, when a lot of the work dried up, you know I just I have a big network because I believe in having a lot of relationships and you know, I really reached out to my network and figured out some ways to drum up new work and to work with some other people and collaborate.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: So I would say that scrappiness is a big part of it.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I love that Scrappiness and relationships.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Now there's a lesson yeah, be scrappy and make sure you got plenty of good relationships.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: I you know that seems to be a theme on a lot of podcasts here in Western North Carolina at least my podcast People are very focused on relationships and building those relationships so that rather than you know, hey, how can you help me?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: You know, or if you're not a prospect or you're not a client, then you know, I think then they don't.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: You know, in some I was just talking to New York you probably wouldn't get.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: That You're like, well, I can't, you know, you're not a prospect for me, so I'll just move on to the next one.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: And but in Western North Carolina you get, you get that relationship thing.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Hey, there's probably a way we can help each other.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure it might be more difficult in other areas, but yeah, I just I love people.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I care about people and and um, even if it's people who are doing totally different, that may not have any need, I'm still, you know, if they, if they have a spark, if they're excited about what they're doing, and um, I think there's value in just connecting and hearing what's going on for them, you know 100% yeah, because you never know how you can help.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think all of us are here to help serve.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: So how do you?
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: It seems like you've got a pretty good grip on it, but let me see if that's right, Do you?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: how do you balance?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not so sure sometimes.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Well, everybody's like that.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: So how do you balance your personal life with running a business?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It's something that is kind of a balancing act.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I think people tend to think of balance as a fixed thing, but I think it's much more like we're continuing to balance and as things change, you have to adjust the balance in real time.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: You know, for example, I got married about a year and a half ago.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Congratulations time, you know for example, I got married about a year and a half ago.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, congratulations, thank you.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my wife moved in and you know, so that changed the equation a little bit, balancing some different things.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, being self-employed, there's no normal work hours and I'm kind of always thinking about the projects that I'm working on, and I noticed, like, laying in bed at night, I tend to come up with a lot of ideas.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I found that sometimes it really benefits me to work outside of normal hours or to stay up late, but at other times it's important to you know like, my wife and I have a date tonight we're going out to dinner and going to see one of our favorite artists and it's like that's time not to work tonight.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: You know, so it's a balancing thing and I often do it wrong, but I continue to just try to try to balance in real time.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you, if there was one thing well done on that, by the way, the date and all the wedding and I would if there's one thing I would do differently for sure would be to have a regular date night.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: You know cause, when I I mean I started in business not long after we were married and I was, you know, we both worked hard and we it wasn't that we never had dates, but a regular date night.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I would recommend that to anyone.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And that's good advice.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's, that's that.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: That would that would help it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: So well done on enjoying it, and there's plenty of that to do around here.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: So so I don't know, do you have regular employees or is it more like people that you collaborate with, or how does that work?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I?
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: have a kind of a secondary and maybe tertiary, you know, a network of people.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So, for example, you know, when I'm talking with a potential client, it's always like you know what's your budget and then within that we figure out okay, you know, with that budget it's going to be just me and here's, you know, here are the sacrifices we're going to make.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And if the budget's higher, we're able to hire a sound, a location sound mixer.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: We're able to have to hire a gaffer to do the lighting and be able to hire a second camera, op or another producer, and that's just going to make your project so much better.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: You know set, design, art department, that kind of thing.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So it really depends.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes people, people just want, you know, to tell a story and they're not as concerned with the production value, and other times people really want their stuff to look, you know, high end.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So, um, I'm always, I'm always excited to work with a team, but at the same time I never want to take somebody's money if it's not going to return, if it's not going to be a good return on investment for them, so I'll leave.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I'll tell people sometimes like you don't need to.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: You know this doesn't need to look like a certain way.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: You know you can spend less on this and even though I don't get to have my my crew on it, you know.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: So what do you look for?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, whether they're outsourced or full-time employees, what?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: What do you look for in in a team member?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it always.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: It comes back to the relationships again.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: It's like, how are we going to work under stress?
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Are you the kind of person that's able to take feedback in real time and if somebody says this isn't working, can we adjust it?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Not take that personally and then just being you know being good energy?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I would rather have somebody who is a little bit less skilled but a little bit hungrier and, you know, more excited, and you know that much better of a person to be in relationship with.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I've definitely encountered some people who are very good at what they do but who I would not hire for a job, you know, based on personality yeah, yeah, no, if it's not a good fit, it's not a good fit, Right?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's the same for any team.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: That's a great answer, though.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I love the.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I love that you're looking for the good energy and people that show up and can handle stress and and can take feedback and are not.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: They're not going to be offended by the fact.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: We're just doing the work.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: We're still trying to get the job done.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Totally, and it's, you know, I think probably this is probably true in any field, but in the creative field, you know, there's always so much learning and I'm learning new things every day and learning new gear.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: And you know, and I've got some people who I'm learning from, who have been so good to me over the years to answer my questions and bring me on jobs, and I'm actually kind of hoping that some, a person or two, will pop up like that who's kind of younger, not as experienced, but like really hungry and excited, and they can start helping me out and learn some things.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: That will be great.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be great for everybody.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It's a win-win.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, they get to learn from you and they you, you get, you get to teach.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And, as we all know that, when you, when you get to teach, and as we all know, when you get to teach something, you become more expert.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Totally, and even just to have some help on those projects where there isn't really the budget to hire another professional.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: But you know, maybe there's a couple hundred dollars for somebody to come out for a half day and help carry stuff and learn some things yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just hang around and you're going to learn.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: You hang around, you learn some stuff, right.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Yep, and some gear is heavy, so yeah, yes, it is, yes it is.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Studio gear is heavy, all right.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: So this is a little bit of a quick fire round.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: We do.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Epic is an acronym, and so what I'd like is your.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: You know your quick one or two words or sentences about each letter in the acronym.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: So the E is EPIC, I mean education, the E in EPIC is education.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So what are your thoughts on education?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Always learning.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: How about P for planning?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: This will be a few more words.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I apologize for that.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: No, take your time.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: It's good we got time what you don't prepare for, you pay for in production.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna write that down, hang on.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what?
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: say that again, what you don't prepare for you pay for in production, whoa, and I cannot take credit for that quote yeah but it's true, mean the majority of of the hours before a shoot or of a project happened, before you actually pull out the camera, you know.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: What you don't prepare for you pay for.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: You could just leave it at that.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I love that.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure you've proven that a few times.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I've paid for things, plenty of times.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you've proven that a few times.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I've paid for things plenty of times when I'm not preparing?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, especially the first couple of years.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were talking earlier about I, which is inspiration.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess you know passion driven.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: And how about C for commitment?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I think resilience, you know, um, there's two steps forward, one step back.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I think is a lot, of, a lot of how things work in my life and you know, not letting those mistakes, you know, throw you off course, or or or giving up.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: That's really, that's really impactful.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So what do you wish someone had told you before you went into business that you know now?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: in my early twenties, you know, with stars in my eyes, thinking I was going to be a famous rock star, and, um, you know, having unrealistic expectations, and I think I mean people probably did tell me what I wish I knew.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I just wasn't in a place to hear it.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: You know, and I think in those early years, kind of having big dreams, but not the um, the technical skills, uh, to really, you know, follow that up.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I think I think I'm glad that I learned some things the hard way you know what I mean and and tried some things and and got burned out, and you know.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: So, um, I I don't really have a straight answer for that and I apologize but no, no, no, no, no, apologies.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I mean what?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: What?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: What I heard was that you know your advice would be that, you know, try some stuff.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: It isn't all going to work out.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Couldn't have said it better myself.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's what I heard, which was great advice.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, and maybe that's the advice you got somehow and nobody told you.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: But you know, try some stuff and it's not all going to work out.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: So, on the rock star scene, how close did you get to being a rock star?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Not close at all.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I developed a, you know, a decent local following and, you know, sold out some venues like the Altamont Theater, if you remember that.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, gray Eagle ISIS, you know it did well here, um, but it never took off.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: You know more than more than the ashville area yeah, but it was fun it was fun.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: It was fun until it wasn't fun anymore and I kind of outgrew it and outgrew the lifestyle and the late nights.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: And you know um wanted to do more variety of things, you, you know.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that's, that's awesome.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: So if someone wants to get ahold of you they want to.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: They want to take advantage of your skills and arts and all of that how should they reach out to you?
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Sure Um, they can hop on my website, which is benfonstudioscom.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Contact me through there, or my email is ben at benfonstudioscom.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Perfect, I love it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I've looked at some of your stuff.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: You're super talented.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot of cool things, and I love that you're out there telling the world stories.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Bill.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks for being on the podcast.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, bill, appreciate it.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: And until next time, all the best.