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Turning Grief into Growth: Finding Purpose After Loss · Is Your Way In Your Way?

• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Good day everyone.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I would like to welcome you to Is your Way In your Way podcast, and I'm your host, cassandra Crawley-Mayo, and this podcast is all about those individuals who are ready I mean really ready to move forward in their lives.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: They want to overcome obstacles, mitigate those self-imposed barriers or even those limiting beliefs that's preventing you from living your best life, and we talk about topics related to business and personal development and self improvement.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And today we're going to talk about grief.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, grief as a teacher, is the topic of our podcast today, and I'd like to introduce you to our guest speaker, who knows all about it.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to take a deep dive.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Hello Melissa, hi Cassandra.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome, hi, melissa.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me today.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you today.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: What I'd like to do first is I'm going to read a little bit of your bio, just so individuals get to know who you are a bit before we get started.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: You are the founder and CEO of Wishbone, which is W-I-S-H-B-O-N-E wellness.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: It was born out of a passion to help others thrive at the significant life events.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Focusing on transition and loss.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Melissa believes that, with the appropriate support, you can turn the loss into a thoughtful transition that can serve you in ways you may not have even imagined.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Can't wait to hear about that.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Your specialty is working with individuals who have experienced job loss, organizational restructuring, divorce, breakups, death of a loved one, and contemplating where they are now and what to do next.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: So she has a deep curiosity for the creativity in all of us and a desire to help people reach their highest potential.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: This led her to who she is today, as an ICF certified professional coach.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: She works one-on-one and she also works in groups.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Now, icf is an international International Coach Federation, for those who are not aware of what that is.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So, melissa, before we got on, I was just talking about how fascinating to me this topic is.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I know of therapists that talk about it.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But this appears to be your forte.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And it's not just this loss of a loved one, it could be loss of a job, it could be loss of restructuring, divorce, breakup, an animal.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: All of that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: There goes my animal, letting you know that he's involved as well.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Before we really get into this, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your backstory?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: sure, yeah, I would love to um.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: My story is, you know, I had a pretty great upbringing in the way of small town, midwest, and um really was kind of prompted into being a little bit of like an achiever and kind of went right into that career corporate mindset, you know from pretty much guided, I think, from.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I had a father who was in the corporate world and was guided into that and did that for many years, I mean about two and a half decades built a beautiful career in the corporate world.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: That was really pretty great.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I found out a lot about myself and succeeded.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: But a major life event happened and when that happened, it just it, it changed everything for me and, and I think, as it does for so many of us, and yeah, and it was just through that, that life event, that and for me it was the, it was the death of my parents that happened and it, it changed it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It woke something up in me that I didn't know was.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: You know even a part of who I was.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: So it was really.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: It was deeply painful, as as as life events like that can be, but it was also coming out the other side of it.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I'm looking in looking back and I saw how much it taught me and who I became today, you know okay, and you, you know you talked about um.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: With that experience you had a certain kind of awakening.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah so tell us about that awakening part the awakening part, I think, is, um, is is unique to everybody and I think is unique to everybody, and I think sometimes it can just, you know, there's little moments in life that it could be just something as simple as you know, you have a fight with a family member, and there's just these little moments that like build on top of each other that kind of wake you up.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: For me, and I think spirituality is unique to everybody.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: So I think sometimes it can be a relationship you have with a higher power, but sometimes it can just be a deep relationship you have with self and with that awakening, I think for me, my higher self had been living dormant and this life event, it literally shook me open.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: You know, it just kind of woke me up to looking around and realizing I wasn't living, living my truth at all.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So there was something that was not aligned with who I was and how I had been living my life, up until that point that I had to just stop everything and I I did feel completely stuck, confused, overwhelmed and lost.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I was completely lost, and so it I took a moment and, um, I had been working, uh, with a therapist for about five years up until that point which was really really key and helpful in getting me through um, getting me through that because I had been working with them that her before the major life event, and then through that, which was very difficult, and then coming out of that.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: But I was in a moment of like I need something also different, and I wasn't sure what that was.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: And at that moment in my life I had hired a coach and and it was.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: It was through coaching, which is different from therapy, that I was able to sort of get to work, if you will.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's almost like hitting the life gym, you know, and I was able to sort of sit down and get really thoughtful about what was not aligning and what was making me feel so unsettled.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And it revealed so much to me in that work that I worked with somebody for about a year and it was really key in my growth in a very different way than therapy was, because they're both so important in my, in my humble opinion.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting because a therapist versus a coach and you said with a coach you were Do you not work through it with a therapist, like what's explained to the audience again, what's different between the two of them?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Because therapy is not a bad thing, as you mentioned, but yet the coach seemed to have allowed you to pivot a little bit and and figure out what it was that had you in that stuck, overwhelmed, sabotaging place.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, exactly, I think.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I think therapists are that work is so specialized and so unique in that you often go, you know, way back and you kind of address things like you know from from a very you know from when you were a child and when you were much younger, and also maybe what um family systems are happening.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: You know, leading up to what choices you made and where you were, and you can go in and they're there to support you in um a much different way that they're skilled to do than where coaching you're coming in.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: You you have an idea maybe about those things that happened to you as a child, or maybe not.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: But we, what we do is, rather than go into the past as coaches, as professional coaches, we keep you in the present and we look at where you want to go in the future, and so that's the difference we don't go into your past so much or we stay in our lane as coaches because it's like we're not qualified to go into that therapy lane.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So we keep you in the present and we get real curious with you about where is it that you want to go, Like where are you now and where do you want to be, and look at what's getting in your way in those ways and map out a path to get you there.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And with grief it's a little bit, you know, tricky, because grief can bring up so many things that are from the past.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: But what I do is, when I meet with clients, in the beginning we do a really thorough assessment of, like, where are you now, what do you need at this moment, and is coaching really the best thing for you?
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Like, is this the moment that you're ready to get into some action about your stuckness?
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: And and let's map out how we're going to get you there.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to walk you every step of the way.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: But you know, you, you, sometimes, you, you meet with clients and they're, the emotions are so strong that they're, they're, they might be ready to get to work, but they're not really sure yet.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: And so sometimes, even grief support groups are really great for that too.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: If you know, and I think we also as a society have different I think mental health is getting a lot of support these days, but there is some stigma around it.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Thoughtful, it's very concentrated and it can get you from A to Z, maybe a little bit quicker than sometimes what therapy takes people to do, you know, and so it's just kind of because we're all individuals, it really takes like sitting down with people.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: You know what do you, what are you looking to accomplish and, you know, do you have some time to work through a lot of strong emotions and saboteurs and things that are, you know, like really taking the time to examine those and then go back out in the world with the tools that we set you up with, use them and come back and like let's reassess and go through everything and see how that has positively affected you or what didn't work, you know.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Melissa, let me ask you, with all the clients that you've had and we talk about grieving and different aspects, from loss to divorce, to breakups you don't have to be married to have a breakup, job loss Is there a common denominator, or maybe it's a common theme that you found with your clients on why some people grieve harder than others?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Is it guilt?
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Because we all grieve at some point, whether we admit it or not?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: What?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: What?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Because we all grieve at some point, whether we admit it or not.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: You know grieve something and we may not really understand the dynamics of it because at different stages that you go through.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: But I'm curious if there's a common denominator, a common theme with your clients that are grieving, what are you finding?
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: What I find is you said it, you said it yourself, like we there's.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: This is a process and an emotion that nobody can get around in life we all have.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: What I've found, though, is it's really interesting where grief shows up in our lives and for what reasons, and that it's not always from the obvious.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I think grief, you know, people immediately think bereavement.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Often, you know, I think I have a lot of people who are like but but someone you know hasn't passed or died in my life, but I'm feeling these feelings.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And I think that that is.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: The common denominator that I see is that we grieve often, we grieve regularly and we don't always know what's happening to, because emotions can get stuck in various parts of us and I think our bodies are our biggest teachers.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's like what?
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Where are you feeling the emotion, how is it coming up?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: And then we start kind of there where what's happening with you, and oftentimes it can lead us down a road of, um, oh my gosh, you know, like I, like, I'm not even sure, I didn't even, I didn't even know that that was upsetting for me, for example, like something that maybe is going on with self, instead of even what's going on, you know, as a, as a particular event that happened.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, for example, if you use the, yes, I just had a breakup and while that has me sad, upset, lonely, angry, there's all sorts of different emotions that can come up.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: But with grief you go through a process and that process isn't linear and so a lot of times what people don't you know, aren't sure and don't understand is like when that process is happening.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: You know, what do they do, how do they?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: What are some tools to get through each wave?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, we.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I think people have heard the the waves sort of metaphor.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: You know like, yeah, people have heard the waves sort of metaphor.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: You know like grief and trauma and sadness comes in as waves.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: But I think that when you're going through those waves it's like how do we get through them?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: How do we come out the other side of a wave?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: How do we look back and look at what just happened, at what just happened?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: See it as a teacher for the next you know wave that might come through in life, for for another reason that grief has, you know, surfacing in our life.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: So I think that's what I you know when I say like grief as a teacher.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: When we're in it it's painful and you can't see clearly and it just feels like we're stuck and and we don't know what to do.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: But when we move through it, on the other side of that can can sometimes be a beautiful gift or a beautiful revealing of something about ourselves that we didn't even, you know, know was true, something that we've, you know, thought and felt our whole lives, but we're not acknowledging something that's standing in our way.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: But so the, the coaching piece is walking with clients every step of the way through through those painful moments, getting those gifts and those reveals.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: On the other side of it, to inform you know the confusion, the overwhelm, the stuckness, mapping out Cause oftentimes they don't know what they want, they don't know where they want to go, they're not sure what the next step is.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: They just know something's not in alignment and that's where the gold is.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: You know that's where.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: That's interesting because of what I know.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: This is the bereavement part.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, usually I've witnessed individuals and even myself, when I lost my parents you know, I realize how short life was, you know and I was like, oh my gosh, I better, you know, I better do all that I want to do, because life is short and even though I miss them a lot, I think about.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: There's not a day that I don't think about my parents, and there are times when I'm like, wow, I wish I could call my mom because I really need to talk to her about something and I'm curious to what she would do, or curious to what my dad would say about that.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Is that a way?
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Well, is that a modality or methodology?
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: When you talked about what is our purpose, you talked about that people in some instances realize what their purpose is when that happens, is that why it's also a grief as a teacher, you think?
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: or not really.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I think absolutely.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: I mean that's just.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your, your intuition is just is kind of hitting it right at the core of what we're talking about and I think it's it's.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It's that.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I mean I love the word waking up, but I don't know if that's like a term that is, you know, understood by by a lot of people.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: But I mean, no matter what your beliefs are of like you know, today or or tomorrow, or spirituality, or what happens, you know, when we all go pass away, I think at the end of the day there's a part of us that is our true self and that part of who we are gets molded and shaped.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we talk about this all the time as as children, we, you know, we are who we are and then kind of society and our life and and families happen to us and sometimes we stay true to who we are and sometimes we, for survival reasons, we kind of mold ourselves into how we need to survive and and I think oftentimes it takes a real big jolt, sometimes a real big, you know, shaking you up moment, to sort of wake you up almost from like, I don't mean like from a dream state but really wake you up to.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: To wait a minute Like this is not who I.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: You know how I want to live this is not you know, and it can happen so many times when people you know, get an illness.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: They have something that they've, you know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: They've come over and they've come to the other side of and they're healed now and they're, they're, they're and it's.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: It's changed everything for them.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So that's why I think it's really important that people know that bereavement is certainly a big loss.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: It is I mean, it's one of the biggest losses but loss is happening, loss and grief is happening to us all the time.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on a personal level, you know, one thing that was a really perplexing grief moment for myself was I had gotten, I had given up alcohol about three years ago now, and that was a process and while it was an addictive behavior, I just recognized something, I was doing something that wasn't healthy and I was ready to examine like you know I'm I don't want to do this anymore Right, what came out of that in that next three years was a really interesting and slightly painful, sometimes grieving process and I was like what is happening to me?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I couldn't understand, and now understanding more of what that was and sort of being on the other side of a wave of that, it was a lot.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: I was grieving the loss of myself, a loss of a part of me, of a story that just isn't who I want to be today, but I loved her, I loved her Parts of her and I worked hard because I was, you know, and I worked, you know, hardcore because I was in it and I was used.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I called in my supports.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: You know you call in.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: You know I go to therapy and coaching regularly personally myself.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: So I had those supports in place but I couldn't have gotten through that, you know, to be able to see through the weeds.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: You know that you do when you're in it, and that was, you know, I just still today.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm like, wow, I can't believe that that was such a hard grieving moment Because it seemed like the usual thing people talk about.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: You know we talk about grieving.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: A lot of the things you listed earlier, yeah, of a loved one, death of a pet.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: You know, divorce, breakup, loss of a job, you know, because these are identity things.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: You know, and I think that um that, that sobriety kind of thing was part of my identity.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize was you know.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I think and yeah, yeah, that's fascinating, I never thought of like alcohol shopping, eating yeah, the addictive mode can be a form of grieving when you let go of it, and then that to me sounds like that was part of who you were.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: However, it didn't work for you, so you had to work through that to release yourself from that.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: It sounds like Right.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And letting go.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was a real like letting go process, which is a process I do a lot with clients.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: It's like there is a lot of like how are we going to move through and let go?
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And yeah, sometimes is it like do we need to forgive ourselves?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Do we need to forgive other people?
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Like what is going on?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And you know that story is unique to every individual.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: We're all so beautifully individualistic that way.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: You know, no one says it's all.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you, you also talked about um.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: This podcast is about is your way, in your way, and you said that through this process, a lot of people are in their way and if, in fact, they um get out of their way, then you know, it's kind of like um, when the student's ready, the teacher will appear.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Could you just share how some of your clients like what?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: What were some of the behaviors that were in their way from releasing or feeling better or overcoming the grief Not that they forgot the situation, but maybe a sense of overcoming?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I think there are a few things that come to mind.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: There are, you know, certainly there are moments where all of us can go through that Like we're a victim.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: We want to play the victim a little bit, so there's like that victim part of us and I think that can if we sit in that sometimes it's really healthy to be in that space for a little bit for a little bit.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Because it can kind of just like.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: You know, coaching is so much about getting curious about what's going on with people and then then getting them.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: But I think a lot of people when they're, when they're coming from that place, they're they're not aware of it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: So I think, like holding up a mirror, um, reflecting back on people what it is they're saying to me as we're going through a session and, you know, mirroring back to them, and I always record my sessions too.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So it's like sometimes back and listen, yeah, what you know what we talked about, and and see if you because because I, that's where coaching is also coaching or therapy or any of these modalities is so key, going to a professional versus friends or family or someone who knows you for help because you need that unbiased Right that is, you know really someone there who has no stake in the.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: There's nothing.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: We don't have any biases, we don't.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: You know, we don't have any selfish tendencies.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: We don't have any.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: We're here strictly to get you from to Z in the in the the clearest way possible.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: And that victim, so pointing out to people, it's like, ooh, I hear something.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I hear something in what you're saying.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you know, it sounds like there's, like you're, you're, you're sitting in a place of stuckness because you feel like things are happening to you.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Does that seem true for you?
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Does that seem, you know?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And, like you know, you kind of bounce it back to to them and then let them and and just explore it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It there's a lot of real value in getting curious.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: So there's.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: So there's the victim piece, yeah, you know being there's.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: We all kind of have this like judge in us.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: You know, this judge, that we are really judging the outside world the way we see it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Or, you know, what I see very often is the judging of self.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, and that can really be a voice.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: You know, like we talk.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: You talk about saboteurs or inner critics.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, that judge, that's a strong one.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I mean it can really stop you from all of the magic that the world needs of you, right, right, staying in that victim, staying in that judgment mode, um, super hard on yourself.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: You know those, all of those, those are really strong, strong and and just so.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: It's like I'm always just trying to keep a keen ear open when I'm just trying to.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm hearing this, you know this, let me.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Let me put, read it back to you, let me say it back to you and and let people hear kind of what's going on with them, because it's, it's often surprising.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: You know, they don't even know, and that's what the idea of working with somebody, versus just trying to go it alone, or a best friend or a sister, a brother, a family member, cause you know, often they're like well, I know you, and don't worry that you're going to be you know you're going to be fine or you're gonna be.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: You know you're gonna be fine or you're gonna get through it and, um, or they often will, you know, take the side of you, because they're, you know, they want you to feel better, they love you, they want you to feel better.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, coaching it it's especially in this kind of like transition, loss, grief arena.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: It it's very tender, but it's also you gotta, I have to come with a little bit of a muscle too, like because the coach piece is like okay, we're gonna examine where you are and and how you're getting in your way and I'm, and we're gonna reveal some things that might be surprising, hard to hear.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, things that you just weren't even expecting, and surprises that come out of nowhere.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's obvious.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: You're qualified Number one.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: You experienced it, you know, and your own yourself went through some things, and you are certified, certified, you're a professional coach when you well, how do people find a coach for the grieving aspect, Because you're the first that I've heard of just specifically the grieving part.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: But how would somebody find one if that's something that they are wanting to have?
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that's something that they they are wanting to have.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, if there's any coaches as coaches we are networked and we love to support each other.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: So I think, just probably in the same way with therapy you know you have recommendations, you know you have people who, like I, I'm looking for a specific support in this area.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: I think if there's anyone in your life that is a coach, it's like, oftentimes ask them.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: That might not be their area of expertise, but oftentimes they know people who are, and I think there aren't a lot of us out there that do this specific type of it, but certainly there are coaches who can.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: But but certainly there there are coaches who can.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: They can work with you in the space of processing strong emotions and if it's an expertise that they're not feeling qualified, they can refer you to someone who can.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: But I mean, there's also you can go on to the ICF, which is International Coaching Federation.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: You said it earlier, and they have, you know, also a list of people and their different a list of coaches and their different specialties.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, if you're looking for executive leadership, or if you're looking for nutrition, or you know there's a whole wellness sector that you can go to to understand different special, special specialties and modalities that people are really strong in melissa, did you?
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: um, I'm curious to why you selected this, um, I would say this expertise, the grieving yeah, it was your parents.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And because this can be a really touchy, touchy thing and there are some people who are grieving but they don't want to go to grief counseling.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: They think that they're OK.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: So, you know, it's kind of like a doctor, like why, why did you want to be a brain surgeon?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Why did you want to be a cardiologist?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You know it's always something that triggers them to want to do that.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Was it basically your, your parents that triggered you to really want to focus on this?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Was it your parents that triggered you to really want to focus on this?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Was it your parents?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Or was it what you've been through and how you got over it, or through it per se?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a little bit of both, but I think I think what.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: So so the passion for this type of work is what drives you know what, what drove me into pursuing you know what, what avenue of this, because it all, it's, it's all in the in the umbrella of mental health.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: But you know, there's so many different ways that people work in the mental health field and, and I think I, I was so profoundly like, kind of brought to my knees and and and shocked at what I didn't know about grief, what I didn't know about, um, you know, the passing of a loved one.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So when that happened, and because it happened, it just they, both they, they had passed within 10 months of each other and it just was like it was just such a shocking moment that it drove me, I mean, for a minute, I think it drove me into a little bit of some unhealthy behavior.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: But but through that it was like this moment of like, wait a minute, like I, I need to take care of myself, I need to figure this out.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: And as I brought in different supports to take care of myself, in that moment I realized how profoundly helpful it was.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: And then it also revealed to me something that I was deeply passionate about, which was mental health, helping people in this area.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: How do we all like what happens to us when we wake up?
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Why are people walking around often that aren't like woken up to themselves and who they really want to be?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And so it kind of just took me down this path of like deep, deep research, certifications, classes, you know, volunteering for grief, group-profits, co-leading groups, like there were all sorts of things that I just dove into because I was just like I, I was trying to go through my own pain and process my own pain.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but also through it all was like there's a beautiful need here and and people struggle and they don't know what to do with it yeah these aren't taught.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that I don't know if this is a statement that feels true to you, but you know the western cultures, we don't do a great job versus other parts of the world when it comes to teaching ourselves how to um move through the hard things in life.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: That are unavoidable, you know, and deep emotions very simply are that and and so that, to me, just I and, and I think you know, there was a minute where I did want to maybe be a therapist and I was like, wow, this is.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: And then I it was after working with a coach that I realized I'm really more excited about working with people in the moment of now and get to, so it's like really it's, and really getting them to like, you know, let's, let's go to the gym of life.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I use that metaphor and work through what's really got you stuck and we're gonna get you over here to where you want to be.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But what you're?
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: going to learn in between is going to be life changing.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And you can then take even though we're talking, maybe, about grief and loss and transition, those tools are then going to.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: You can take those into your work life, into your relationships, into your families, into your social.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Every part of your life will then benefit from this new set of tools, right?
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, I asked that question because in my opening, I talked about individuals who are ready to move forward in their lives and overcome obstacles and mitigate those self-imposed barriers because in order to that's preventing them from living their best life.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like with you, you found your passion, you found your purpose and when you talked about your backstory, you didn't really this.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like this was something that you always wanted to do.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: You know, this is something that it's like life happened and then, from the teaching that you got, from the life lesson, that helped you decide what it was that you wanted to do.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: And I say that for my listeners because it doesn't have to be something in the past.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: It could be something, an event or you have an advocate for, you have a passion for, you have a burden, for you know could be something that they would like to do and that could be something like living their best life.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So that's why I ask how did you come up with this?
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: You know, for people to see that it didn't have to be what happened in your backstory.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: It's just could be, like you said, your parents and how you went through things.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: So that's why I brought that up yeah well, it feels in such alignment with your purpose and what your podcast is all about it's like is your way, in your way and right.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: For so many of us it is, and you know we're we might be walking through life a little numb to that even being the case.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Sometimes things happen to us and all of a sudden you're like I don't want to be numb anymore, I want to be much alive, I want to be very much living in my alignment to what lights me up, right, and I think it's really important.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And you know not to get too meta here, and you know it's like for every person who is just a little bit more in alignment or lit up to themselves, you know it's.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: It's like you know we have so much healing that this, this whole planet needs, needs, you know, time, and so it's like you know we have so much healing that this whole planet needs, you know, all the time, and so it's like one step at a time.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: It's nothing.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: No one taught us in college or high school Like we're going to have a grieving course.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: You know what to do, how to overcome it, you know.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: So none of that has been taught to us.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Melissa, do you have anything you'd like to share with my audience?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: For those who, like we talked about it's not just bereavement.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: It could be a job loss, it could be a breakup, a pet I don't want to say that too loud because he'll hear me and then he'll start barking.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: It could be a number of things.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Is there any takeaways that you would like to provide to my listeners about this topic?
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Grief as a teacher.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I, you know there's a couple, you know, lately I've had in the last year or so, I've had a couple other.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I don't want to call them categories, but you know these, these empty nesters and people who are going into retirement yes, that's also, you know, and it's such a joy to work with people in this space, even though they come in and it's it's a difficult moment, but working through, because, you know, I think people forget that, like some people are so excited about retirement but then, but then it comes and they're like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh what am I?
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: going to.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I don't even know who I am.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: What lights me up?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I've been, this has been my identity for, you know, four or five decades, so true four or five decades, and we're thinking with empty nesters.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You know they, they so many parents have lived for their children in the most beautiful way, but it's now their time and they're completely lost to who they are and what they want.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: So so I think those are two really, really key areas that that have been really interesting to work with and people to work with around that.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: And I think, when you go, I have a couple of free offerings that live on my website, and that is Tools for Letting Go is one of them.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Download a PDF or I offer going through this exercise.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: It's a visioning exercise that you can do in about 15 minutes, and I do it free with people all the time, just to get a sense of what that feels like, what that tool can do for you, and then you can take it and run with it.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Or, if you feel you know, inspired, maybe you, we could do a couple sessions together.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: That you know, that's just.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: You know whatever calls to you at that moment.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And then I also, if you're local to Los Angeles, I have a monthly free.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I call it a hike and heal that I offer and I do this once a month and we hike in the local area and it is community movements, nature.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think people that combination don't realize like that can be so healing in and of itself, but movement creates such creativity.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of times when we're stuck, we're lacking creativity and just moving with other people and being able to like, talk it out, work it out, can create magic.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: In those moments and at the end of each of those events, I just do about a 30 minute learning and tool offering.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: So we do a little circle and we and we talk about some grief, exercises and tools that you can take in your everyday life when, when moments come up that you're not sure you know what I do right now.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: So that's a freebie offering that I have all the time going on um okay, what's your uh website?
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: tell my list.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, my website is.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It's called wishbonewellnesscom and that's wishbone with a y.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, u y s h b o n e wellness, okay.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: And they can find out how to contact you on that website.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Correct?
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also have Instagram and Facebook site as well.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, Okay.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: And on Instagram and Facebook is it wishbone or is it your name?
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: It's wishbone underscore wellness.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook Correct, okay, okay.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Well, melissa, you have shared so many gold nuggets and I think I want to take some of your, your free, your freebies.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I think they will be very helpful and um, and to my audience, if, in fact, you believe that this podcast should be shared with others, because there's a lot of wisdom in here.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: You know, when I hear the word grief, I think of bereavement, and that's not.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It's not just bereavement.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I love the fact when the empty nesters you know what.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Now, what do I do?
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: Everybody wants to retire.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: You know, I remember I wanted to retire, but never thought about what is it that I want to do?
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: So I just want to thank you for your time, thank you for your energy, Thank you for your gift, your passion that you have in this and and I'd like to say bye for now, melissa, and I'd like to say bye for now, melissa, and I'd like to tell my audience bye, and I'd like I also want to say God bless you and God bless my audience.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you, cassandra, god bless you, and thank you for your podcast.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: It's so healing.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.