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Reader Feedback—When to Listen and When to Let It Go · Reality Writes

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: I am author Ellie Alexander.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we talk about all things writing, bookish, and whatever else is on our mind.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm here with the tech guy.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh so great to be here.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, what are we talking about today?
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Today we're gonna talk about reader feedback, um, how it's useful, maybe how it's not useful.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna get into it.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Uh I know it's a favorite topic of yours.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: Definitely a favorite topic of mine, um, although for totally different reasons.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: But um, but yeah, okay.
0:44
SPEAKER_02: So before we get started, um, just a quick mention of uh a very novel murder.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: Your latest book came out uh just just a couple weeks ago, January 20th.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, first book in the novel detective series, new series.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: New series.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Um and also uh for those patrons out there, be sure to tune in for the after party uh immediately following this episode over on Ellie's Patreon, where you get to hear all the things that won't be said during this episode.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: There could be a rant coming, maybe.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll have to see.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Sure, there's probably a rant or two.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Given today's topic, I'm thinking, yeah, yeah.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: All right.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: Um okay, well, let's dive in.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
1:37
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: So you um you you preface this by saying that sometimes reader feedback is helpful, sometimes it's not.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: Um not all feedback is created equal, right?
1:50
SPEAKER_02: So um, so let's let's dive into it.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about like and and I guess this this episode is really for uh both readers and writers because we're talking about the people leaving the feedback and then the people who are reading the feedback.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: So um maybe some tips for both coming uh coming through, and maybe some hard truths too.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: Um uh people might learn a thing or two.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: And I think um I think we can start it out by talking about just sort of the author perspective.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: But then in the later part of this episode, I really want to dive into how publishing houses use reader feedback and reviews as well.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: So we we'll definitely cover both sides.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: But for this purpose, we're talking about like how reader feedback might come into an author.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: So that might be a review that a darling out there, or maybe a not so darling, no, I'm just kidding, has posted and shared with an author.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it could be through email, it could be through DMs, it might be at an in-person event, a book signing.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had some doozies over the years.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a line of people waiting to sign books, and there's a reader who comes with, you know, like their own dossier, like this full-on manuscript themselves of everything that um they would have wished I had done differently in a book.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And my advice always is like, that's great.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: You should go write that book.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I wrote the book that I wanted to write.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, thanks.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: So definitely re feedback comes in many forms.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's also public and private.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: So the public stuff would be the the feedback in tr in the form of a review on a website, like Goodreads or you know, Amazon or any of the the um anywhere that uh books get reviewed.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: Um and then um you could also then then there's the private part, which is the the emails, um, the the feedback form submissions on authors' websites, et cetera, et cetera.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: So um so uh it's and then I guess a combination of the two, because you mentioned feedback, direct feedback at like book talks.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Um that's both public and private, because sometimes people give that feedback in a very public setting when it's very private uh information that they're talking about or very pointed opinions.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: Um so what is like give me a couple of mistakes that new writers might make um when the feedback starts coming in.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, so we've talked about this before on other podcasts, and I've talked about it a lot just in general, which is um in terms of the review piece, you really have to remember that ultimately if somebody is if a if a reader's a posting a review on Goodreads or one of the review sites, that really is intended for other readers.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: It's it's not intended for the author.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: So, like my first rule is always don't respond to those.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Nothing good comes out of that, especially if it's a review that isn't as flattering or, you know, maybe something that doesn't resonate with you or something that, you know, you feel like this reviewer even got wrong, like that's on them.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think especially early on in a writing career, it's important to um find a way to sort of insulate yourself from some of that while at the same time um potentially being open to like if you start to see global trends, you know, if you're hearing from readers across all of those ways that I just spoke about that someone might say, like, hey, I've got some feedback for you.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, to take a little side note here, do writers want feedback?
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Like that, that might be a question um for the darlings out there that you start with.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: If you're if you're going to see an author um at an event or you're thinking about like emailing them or sending them a DM, you might want to just start with like, hey, are you looking for feedback or suggestions?
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Are you open to this?
6:07
SPEAKER_00: And you might hear from a writer that's like, yes, actually, I would love some feedback.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Or you might hear from a writer that's like, no, I'm not interested in feedback at all.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: So that's my little caveat just to put out there for the darlings.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, maybe think about how you're approaching that.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody just comes up to you on the street and comments on your outfit, like, you know, am I looking for feedback for what I'm wearing today?
6:29
SPEAKER_00: No.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Am I looking for feedback on what you think about my book?
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Not necessarily.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, but knowing that if you're hearing across the board, you know, so if readers are DMing me, uh DMing me, uh, emailing me, if I'm at in-person events and I'm hearing the same consistent patterns about, you know, maybe some like gaping plot hole or character development, or, you know, if you start to see trends and themes that are really consistent, that might be worth paying attention to.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And that might be something that then, you know, perhaps if you have beta readers or an editor or any kind of publishing team that they they first and foremost would be the people you would want to have bring that to your attention.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have that and you're out there indie publishing, it might be worth, you know, using your own discernment and going through some of the reviews and seeing, like, well, is there a pattern here?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Is there an opportunity for me to strengthen my writing per se?
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Potentially.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: And uh but but also to be careful with that because two people does not a pattern make.
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, right?
7:38
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, you just you like writers would need to be careful about that because the you know, this is the age of the internet, and uh oh man, just within the last couple of years, everybody likes to give their opinion on things.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: And you're not you're not gonna please no matter what you write, you're not gonna please everybody all the time.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: So it definitely a pattern or a trend is it's really important to discern that over just a couple of opinions from you know a few people.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Um that is interesting though, because you like readers or right readers, writers do ask for feedback in the form of early readers, right?
8:25
SPEAKER_02: And so that would be a good time to identify trends if you send your book out to 10 early readers, for example, and seven or eight of them have similar feedback around a particular character or particular plot point, that is probably something to pay attention to.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: But that's a time that you are actually soliciting that feedback.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: You as a writer, I am saying I'm interested in feedback.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: If I'm at a book signing and a reader comes up to me and is just like ready to be like, well, I hate this character, I hate this plot point.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, there's nothing I can do with that.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: First of all, the book is written, it's out there.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't have to love it.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: It might not resonate with you, but like, thanks.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think and and that that gets into so we talked a little bit about, you know, where like feedback does matter, uh, where reader feedback does matter.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: And and that that would be an area where it really doesn't.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: Um it because a lot of the times I think as a as a writer, you're gonna get reader feedback in the form of comments like the one that you just said, um, that are an opinion, but stated as though it were some sort of universal truth.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, that, you know, that that, you know, they didn't like this character, so therefore that character is terrible.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: And that's, you know, that's a slippery slope, right?
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Um it's a real slippery slope.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, on the flip side, over the years, I've had lots of readers who have come um with fun suggestions for me.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And um, it's always interesting because sometimes if a reader has a thought about a character or let's say a plot point or a subplot or what they think might be happening with a subplot, there have been a few instances where readers have come up with things where I'm like, oh my gosh, like that's genius.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: I gotta, I gotta tuck that away.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I hadn't even considered that.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, or, you know, maybe a reader will be like, if we're looking at, let's use the bake shop mysteries, for example.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Andy is the long-running barista at tort.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And years ago, a reader was like, oh my gosh, Andy's my favorite.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: I love him so much.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Please, please, please at some point let him go on some kind of a coffee trip.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that had already been like in the back of my mind.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: But then when this opportunity came up to go to Costa Rica with you, I was like, well, okay, here's Andy's book.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, of course.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, on the flip side, I've gotten um feedback from readers over the years who um like hate Lance because he's gay and will say things like, I can't believe that you are your publisher, your publisher, your publisher pushing this gay agenda on you and forcing you to include a gay character in your book.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, they don't, they have no idea.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's all me.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Lance is based on two really good friends.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, and that's not how publishing works.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: So, like, it's really it could be the gamut.
11:18
unknown: Right.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: So you as the writer have to decide what parts, if anything, resonate or strike that you want to take and what you have to just sort of let go.
11:30
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: And and I think uh you get both from the same people sometimes too, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_02: Because uh the you brought up the example of somebody really loving Andy and and you know, and I mean everybody loves Andy, right?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Andy's just he's a cool character in in the bake shop.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: Who doesn't love Andy?
11:49
SPEAKER_02: But you take Andy and you you as LE Alexander make a statement of I think if when the Bake Shop mysteries are made into a streaming series, Andy will be played by.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I have no idea.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I I would put I put you on the spot, but let's hit you.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: You throw out a name.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: The same the same readers that love Andy would like a lot of them are coming with the the torches and pitchforks for you.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Ellie, that is wrong.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Andy is not gonna be played by that person, and it's like, whoa, hold on, like pump the brakes.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: This is so so it is it it it is um like like everything, uh writing is a form of art that is very, very subjective by you know, um from the people who consume it.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: And you're going to get people who love it, you're gonna get people who hate it, and you're gonna get people who do both and want to tell you about it, you know, what they thought about it.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: So um so yeah, I think that I think that's good advice though, of um you know, for writers out there in terms of like what to what to pay attention to, what to look for, and and kind of what to um uh you know stay away from.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: But that being said, getting negative feedback is never easy.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: So like from a writer perspective, like how do you stop that from making you mad, hurting your feelings, like making you want to stop writing?
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you do?
13:30
SPEAKER_00: I know.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this I I feel like this is a learned skill.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: It's muscle memory.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: It's really, you know, as you're starting writing, if you're a new writer out there, um, you know, really like practicing boundaries around this, how much attention you pay to something.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite quotes is um where our um where our attention goes, our energy flows, right?
13:55
SPEAKER_00: So if I'm giving all of my attention to the negative reviews and I'm ignoring, you know, the hundreds of lovely, wonderful reviews or like DMs and emails and chats that I get to have with readers, like like it's all gonna focus there.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, that's just kind of how our brains are hardwired.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna hold on to that one negative review or one reader who was like, you know, emailing you at two o'clock in the morning because they've just finished the book and they hated it.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Um so for me, like my my firm line is if if a reader is, darlings, if you're reaching out to me, like please reach out.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: I love getting your messages and DMs and emails.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if if a reader's reaching out in any sort of a positive tone, I'm I'm gonna respond.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: But um, to the readers who are just like, I hated this, I can't believe you did this, this is awful, like whatever.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, if they're just if it if somebody's coming at you with nothing that is constructive, helpful, welcome, they don't get my attention.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna respond.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: It just gets deleted.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it goes in a special reader hate mail folder so that I can use it for rants later, but like I'm not gonna give that my attention and energy and time.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: And and I don't think other writers should.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, you're not gonna win that argument.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's so subjective.
15:15
unknown: Right.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: It's entirely subjective.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: It is.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is so subjective that it is just it is wild.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, the the um the feedback folder is definitely something that, well, you know, I have I have a very large cache of just like hilarious feedback uh that one day I am going to write a book about um the way people provide feedback.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to use a lot of these as examples.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: I guess for the darlings out there, I would want to know, like just from a personal level.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think anybody listening to this podcast is probably any of these people leaving feedback like this or contacting authors and and and saying stuff like this.
16:03
SPEAKER_02: But but in case you are, I kind of want to know like what's your motivation?
16:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you think is actually going to change by you saying this?
16:10
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the you know, providing this type of feedback, like that you hated a character or that you thought the author should have done something differently.
16:18
SPEAKER_02: Like it the problem is the book's printed, it's done, it's good, it's out in the world.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Like nothing that you say at that point is going to make an author go back and rewrite a story to republish a book.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: It's just not gonna happen.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: No.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, but that brings up a good point because you brought up like how publishers might use feedback um and how you know reader feedback might or might not influence things um in in the publishing world.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh, can you talk a little bit about that?
16:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do want to talk about that.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: But um well, as you were talking, I the I did think of one other point, which is that like sometimes I do think that a reader is so invested in your story that it feels like it belongs to them, which I absolutely kind of love that piece.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: And I've certainly gotten feedback from readers who are like that and they're like, I just love this so much, but you know, I wish this could have been different.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not gonna come at you for that.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not gonna delete that message.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna respond.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that somebody might care deeply.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: It's um, it's usually when somebody has an agenda that's really just about like your own singular opinion on something where you're like, no, uh-uh.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, so if we're talking about from sort of like a publishing perspective, and let's say that you have been indie published, you've you've been a successful indie published author for a few years and you have a new series idea, or maybe a publishing house or an agent or somebody has reached out to you and is interested in extending that series with you, maybe republishing the backlist, anything like that.
17:56
SPEAKER_00: Editors andor agents, they are gonna go to a Goodreads, let's say, and going to scour the reviews and get a good sense of like, oh, like we talked about at the beginning, beginning of the episode, are there trends here?
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Are there themes?
18:12
SPEAKER_00: What are the reviews?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: How are readers resonating with this writing?
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, so sometimes like that can really be beneficial for you then.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: There's kind of this baseline within the publishing industry where it's like anything that has like a 3.7 or higher on good read on Goodreads is considered good.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: You want to be in that like 3.7 or higher.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: If you start to get into like the low threes and there's just like a lot of consistent okay or negative reviews, that might be telling you potentially there's an opportunity for you to strengthen your writing, whether that's lot development or setting or characters or whatever it is.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's not to say that, you know, like let's say you're holding steady at a low three for a series and an editor is interested, they might be the ones to help you grow as a writer and really build that out too.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: But it is something that definitely from the industry side of things, editors pay attention to and again, not low threes based on five reviews.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: We're thinking about right, exactly, exactly.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that can happen is like review bombing can happen.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Like I had a friend who, you know, wrote a character who was trans and got like review bombed for some of them just because of that fact, too.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So there are other factors that go into it.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: But I'm talking about if you're seeing like a consistent pattern of reader feedback, um, that might be worth paying attention to.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes um internally, the publishing house, like that might be part of how they make a decision to continue a series or not continue a series if they're seeing, like, gosh, you know, this one is just consistently like not hitting as well with readers.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: But then you're having professional industry people who are helping to like guide you through that process.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's gonna be my caveat for this whole episode.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't take one or two things to heart.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: But if you do start to see consistent patterns, it could be worth paying attention to.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I mean, to build on that, like you as a writer, um, you over time, and I know you said this is muscle memory at this point, but like, how do you build that filter, I guess, uh uh in the beginning?
20:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you build a filter to know because there's a difference between choosing to read the reviews and choosing not to read read the reviews versus choosing how to uh like intake and process the direct personal private feedback that you get.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm not talking about reviews out on Goodreads and et cetera, but like how do you build the filter around because you get some doozies?
20:55
SPEAKER_02: Like you get you get amazing comments from wonderful readers, some readers who have told you the most heartfelt personal stories and how your books have improved their lives, which is just uh unbelievable.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: Like not in a not not like I can't believe it, but just unbelievable that this is actually happening.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Like that, you know, it's so amazing that um that you get feedback like that, but you get some feedback from people that you know want to tell you how you should have written things, or what a character should have done, or you know, what color something should have been, or that there was a mistake in a book, or you know, I mean, how do you so how do you, as a as a new writer, how do you build that filter to like make sure, because you know me, every one of those that comes in, I'm just like, I'm ready to go.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, no, just to hold on.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Like you have to talk me down all the time.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Calm down, let's take a deep breath.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we're talking about unsolicited uh.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Input and feedback, right?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: So this is not an author going to Goodreads and looking through to see patterns.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about This is not early readers.
22:08
SPEAKER_02: This is just like email to the author, comments on unrelated comments on a social media post.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, you post about the coffee you had that morning, and somebody leaves a comment that says, Andy sucks.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, what?
22:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, okay, so here's really the great thing, and this is important for any darlings out there who are writing.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: We write mysteries.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: You can kill these people in a book.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: Like it's gold.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: It's character gold.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: I've used a lot of names where I'm like, the the thanks for the feedback.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: You're dead.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, that is a benefit of this genre for sure.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: So if you're not writing a mystery, come to the dark side.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Like you can work out your revenge.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but I mean, yes, so I have done that.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: That is true.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: That's a true story.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it depends.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: If someone, uh, I do have a lot of readers, not a lot, but I will have readers who point out like an error or a typo and they're very kind and thoughtful about it.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: That I can usually forward onto my publishing house.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: The book's already been printed.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: It's always so frustrating because it's like, you don't have any idea how many people have touched this and seen it.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: But those things slip through.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: So, like that kind of stuff, I'm happy to pass on because then the ebook can get updated right away.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And when the book goes into its next printing, they can change that.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's kind of like on its own.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: That's a different kind.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: But if we're just talking about someone who is sending you um negative information, I think the worst part for me, and uh, this has been something that I've had to practice over the years, is being caught off guard out in the world, like at a public event or signing.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, same thing.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: I am not kidding about a reader who brought like a thick stack of notes of everything they wanted me to change in a future book.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm trying to be professional, and I'm like, well, wait a minute, like, no, I wouldn't come to your office and give you feedback on how you're running your accounting firm or like whatever it is you do.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So I do try to, I think that's a skill that is important for new writers, is to flip that script and think about like, okay, let's we don't know what these readers do for their job, but let's imagine that person is a teacher.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna walk into their classroom and give them feedback on their lesson plan, right?
24:27
SPEAKER_00: Um that's ludicrous.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: That sounds like like who would do that?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: First of all, they wouldn't let you in the building.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: So um, if you can kind of talk yourself through that narrative of like, wait, I wasn't soliciting this kind of information.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: I didn't ask for this.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm at this event with a lot of other readers, like, no, you you also don't get my time now, too.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, thanks, move on.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I try to do the same thing with any sort of um communication that comes in online that way, too.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, and that's a good point because even if you were to be able to get into the building and walk into that classroom and start giving feedback on their lesson planning, they would be furious.
25:07
unknown: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely furious.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: Like in in, you know, and rightfully so.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: So I guess that that is a tip for the darlings out there.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: Like a book talk, re- uh you know, an author talk is not the place to deliver any type of feedback.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: The author's not there to hear about a missing comma on page 57 of their latest book.
25:32
SPEAKER_02: Um they're just not.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I I do think like the more, as especially as new writers, um, the more that you can treat this professionally, because it is, this is my career, this is my profession.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: If you think about that, you're not soliciting feedback for your career or profession in any other capacity, right?
25:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's not appropriate in this case either.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: What would you say to somebody?
25:56
SPEAKER_02: So just for the um the darlings out there uh who might be writers, um what would you say to someone that came in to like an book signing and started in on feedback like that?
26:14
SPEAKER_02: Like because you said you talked about flipping the script, but are there any specific talking points that you can give to new writers or writers who've been doing this forever that just don't know how to handle situations like that?
26:25
SPEAKER_02: Because I've seen you do it and you're always very nice and very polite, but it's just like shut down, you know, like this is because there are other people waiting to get their books signed.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: It's not like this isn't the time or the place to have a discussion about things like that.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: No, and just like I mean, we talk about this so much.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: If you, if you meet me in real life, this I you're getting me, right?
26:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm not some other version of myself when I show up online versus when I show up in the real world.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: So I would say something just like that.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, um, I appreciate uh that you've taken the time to read my book, and I'm not in a position right now to be able to hear a lot of feedback because this book is already published, and I have a lot of people waiting.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much for coming.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: And next.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Here's here's your signed copy.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Next.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: I have sometimes, like sometimes people like have just given me like a page of notes, or you know, when it's their turn, they're like, I just hated that, you know, Jules chose so and so or whatever.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and if somebody physically gives me something like that, I'm just gonna put it in the recycling bin.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna bring it home with me.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, don't.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, no.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and if somebody's like trying to have a conversation in the moment about, you know, like, okay, but why did she do this?
27:48
SPEAKER_00: And could she do this?
27:49
SPEAKER_00: And have you thought about that?
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Then I just always circle back to like, you know what?
27:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm already three books ahead too.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, there, there's no turning back at this point.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: That ship sailed.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: So, like, here's where we are.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: If it doesn't resonate with you, like, that's okay.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: But like, this is the story.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think like anytime you can, as a writer, just remind yourself like, you're right.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, you are the architect of your own story.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm writing the story that I want to tell.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm writing the story that I know from my worldview, from my life experiences, from what I want to share.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: What you would share, even though we've been married for 28 years, would be vastly different than what I write.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's where you're more profanity too.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Way more profanity for sure.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, that's why I read.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: I read widely because I want to read all kinds of stories from varying points of view.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so I think trying to just like remind yourself that ultimately it is your story and no one else gets to dictate where or or how it goes.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: It's always fun if a darling has an idea that sparks something.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: There's also been a few instances where um, so in Bake Shop, this is a little bit of a teaser.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there is going to be a crossover that's happening between another character from another series.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: It's coming.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: I know.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: This year, I act surprised, but I know.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: You know.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I have been planning this for a long time.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And there have been a couple readers who have telegraphed that where I'm like, oh yes, but also, oh shoot.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, is it too obvious?
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, so so like there you it can be super fun to be chatting with a darling and then try to keep my face passive, like, mm-hmm, that's a great idea.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Where I'm like, that book's already written.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: I've already done that.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, so I guess like, you know, to kind of wrap things up a little bit, the the I the overall the the message here is like readers matter and and the feedback that that readers have matter, but but writers matter too.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: And so right the writers out there need to understand, like, you have to take care of yourself.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, and you can't you can't let um you know one bad apple ruin the whole bunch, right?
30:09
SPEAKER_02: So there's like again, looking for the patterns, um, seeing if there's a trend, not paying attention to the outliers.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: Um what else?
30:19
SPEAKER_02: Um separating the emotion from the like maybe useful bits and pieces.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And and looping back to like, this is your job in your profession.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: You're you're professionally publishing a book.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: So think about how that would play out in another profession.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: I do think this piece is unique to any creative endeavor.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that comes with getting feedback, which is a blessing and a curse sometimes, right?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: So that's just the nature of this field, but it doesn't translate to other places usually.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: So if you can hold on to that, I think it, I think from a writing perspective, that's much more helpful.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do not want the takeaway to be that darlings, I don't want your feedback.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: I do.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: I love hearing.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it is it's it is those outliers where somebody just writes and is like, Ellie, I absolutely hated this book.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: I can't believe you did blah, blah, blah.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, well, thanks.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: And for the darlings out there, yeah, for the darlings out there, definitely reach out to your favorite authors.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Um they love to hear from you.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: They they love it.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, but and I want to address something before we wrap things up fully, that before the I I get all the hate in the comments.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: At no point am I saying if you're if you're not going to say something nice, don't say anything at all.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm not saying don't like you can't provide feedback unless it's only going to be positive feedback.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: But what I am saying is as a reader providing feedback to an author, think about how you're framing it.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Think about how you're writing, like what you're writing and how that is going to impact the the author.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: Think about what is your feedback even actionable?
32:07
SPEAKER_02: Is it something that they can do anything with, or is it just being sent in some sort of mean-spirited way?
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Like just think about that.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's all I I think that's all any writer sh you know is asking for.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: Um they're not asking to just all sunshine and you know, roses.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: It's just, yeah.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: No.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And again, um, I I think it just it does loop back to like, are you interested in feedback?
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Like if you start from that lens, I I most of the time I'm gonna say yes.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, if there's a long line of people, and I know like I have a hundred books to sign, the answer's gonna be no, because that's not fair to everybody else that's here.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I think if you I think tone matters dramatically, and then just asking the question, thinking like, huh, I wonder if they wanna if they're looking for feedback.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: All right.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, that wraps up episode three of season three of reality rights.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Um actually, we've got something fun coming up for the next episode.
33:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you want to tell people about it, give a little preview?
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna do a little dive into um love tropes in the cozy, because it's gonna come out the week of Valentine's Day.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: So why not?
33:25
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh so it'll be a little bit of, you know, we'll be we're in the month of February, so it's uh uh seems appropriate that we start talking a little bit about love.
33:37
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, so for uh for the darlings out there listening to this episode, I'd love to hear, we we would love to hear feedback in the comments.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Um uh, you know, as uh if if there are any writers listening out there, like what's a piece of feedback that you received that actually resonated with you that was helpful, that you know wasn't necessarily positive, but it was something that actually was well written and well received and and ended up leading to some sort of actionable change that you could make.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: And and then for the right uh the readers out there, uh uh, we'd love to hear um, you know, have you been able to get great interactions with any authors out there uh through feedback?
34:24
SPEAKER_02: Like have you had fun interactions?
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Have you had not so fun interactions?
34:29
SPEAKER_02: We don't need to name names, like we don't need to name names, but but I'm just curious uh because I know a lot of readers get to interact with their favorite authors, and I'm always I'm always curious about how it goes uh elsewhere.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: So good question.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: That could that could be revealing, darling.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: I've never had an author respond.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh-oh, that could be a pattern.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just kidding.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I thought you were gonna ask the darlings too, um, that you were gonna solicit feedback about reality rights.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's what we should do in the comments.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Um we can take that too.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Bring it.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: Let's hear your best.
35:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: What do you hate?
35:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: We'll look for trends.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: We will.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: We definitely will.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: All right.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, that does it for this episode of Reality Rights.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh, again, for the patrons out there, head over to Patreon for the after party.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be fun.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, till next time.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: Till next time.