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Navigating Medicaid Reform and Community Care with CalOptima CEO Michael Hunn · Becker’s Payer Issues Podcast

0:00
Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the
0:02
Becker's Payer Issues podcast. Thrilled today to be
0:05
joined by CalOptima Health CEO, Michael Hahn. Michael,
0:08
thanks so much for taking the time to
0:10
be with me on the podcast today.
0:12
Jacob, it's awfully nice to be here and
0:14
really appreciate the invitation.
0:16
Yeah. Likewise. I I appreciate you taking the
0:18
time, Michael. And,
0:20
we're here today to talk with you a
0:21
little bit about the federal reconciliation bill, which,
0:24
of course, as you know, was recently passed
0:26
earlier this month.
0:28
But before we dive into that and all
0:30
the complexities involved in that bill for for
0:32
your organization and and across the wider health
0:34
care system,
0:35
can you remind our listeners, what is CalOptima
0:38
Health? Who do you serve, and and what
0:39
markets,
0:40
are you in?
0:42
So, CalOptima Health serves the Medicaid
0:46
population, which we refer to as Medi Cal
0:50
here in Orange County, California.
0:52
Orange County, California is the sixth largest county
0:56
in The United States,
0:58
here in the state of California.
1:01
We currently are the third largest,
1:04
Medicaid health plan in the state of California.
1:06
We serve
1:08
out of our 3,100,000
1:10
member population,
1:12
we serve about a million in the Medicaid
1:15
program just here in Orange County.
1:17
So what that means is that there are
1:19
a million people out of
1:21
3,000,000 or a third of the county that
1:23
are low income
1:25
or live below the federal poverty level here
1:27
in Orange County.
1:29
We're also a
1:30
what's called a county organized health system.
1:34
Back when we were founded thirty years ago
1:36
in 1994,
1:38
the county decided not to build,
1:41
public hospitals.
1:42
So we don't have a public hospital. We
1:44
administer the Medi Cal program
1:47
through about 10,000
1:49
contracts with providers.
1:51
That includes our doctors, our clinics, our hospitals,
1:55
our skilled nursing facilities, our ambulatory centers, and
1:58
our community clinics.
2:00
So we are a county organized health system.
2:03
We have a separate
2:05
nine member fiduciary board. We are not part
2:08
of the County Of Orange.
2:10
We have a $4,700,000,000
2:12
budget this year.
2:14
90%
2:15
of our revenues come from state tax revenues
2:18
and 10%
2:19
from CMS Medicare.
2:21
So that's a little bit about CalOptima Health.
2:24
Fantastic. Well, appreciate that overview and context for
2:27
our listeners,
2:28
Michael.
2:29
Let's let's dive in and talk about HRM
2:31
one, the the federal reconciliation
2:33
bill that president Trump signed into law on
2:36
July 4.
2:38
Massive bill. So many different things we could
2:40
talk about today. But,
2:42
let's specifically focus on Medicaid where,
2:45
it's anticipated that, Medicaid spending will decrease by
2:49
nearly $1,000,000,000,000
2:50
over the next decade. And, under that same
2:53
timeline, we're expecting the uninsured population
2:56
nationwide to,
2:58
increase by an additional 10,000,000 people.
3:01
And that's that's by 2034
3:03
according to the Congressional Budget Office and their
3:06
latest estimates. So,
3:08
talk to us about the bill's impact on
3:11
the operations and strategy at CalOptima,
3:14
over over the next five to ten years?
3:16
How are you thinking about this internally? How
3:18
are you preparing for this,
3:20
financially?
3:22
So, Jacob,
3:23
one of the things that is important for
3:25
a lot of folks to understand
3:27
right now is that all although HR one
3:31
has been passed and we've got a state,
3:33
budget that our governor signed into law as
3:36
well,
3:37
nothing yet has actually changed in either the
3:40
services,
3:42
or eligibility
3:43
of any of our Medicaid members here, certainly
3:46
in California and certainly here in Orange County.
3:49
So the first messaging we're sending out is
3:52
to our members letting them know,
3:55
one, we haven't shared any of their confidential
3:57
private information.
3:59
Two,
4:00
their benefits and their eligibility
4:02
at this moment in time remains the same.
4:06
And three, please,
4:07
please, please go get your health care services.
4:10
Take your kids in for baby well checks.
4:13
Get your immunizations.
4:14
Do your developmental screenings with your younger children.
4:18
Make sure you're getting your pharmaceuticals
4:20
for blood pressure
4:21
and diabetes and whatever else,
4:24
and make sure you're going to the doctor.
4:26
And if you can't,
4:28
or don't want to go to the doctor
4:30
because you're concerned about things in the community,
4:34
then try to use telehealth.
4:36
We added on our website,
4:38
caloptima.org
4:40
backslash
4:41
get care,
4:43
a list of our physicians that do telehealth.
4:46
So in preparing for the changes, first and
4:49
foremost, we want people to continue to get
4:52
their care until there is a change in
4:55
the actual benefits eligibility
4:58
and determinations.
5:00
So the work eligibility,
5:02
the soonest that that will start to occur
5:05
for individuals
5:06
that have to perform eighty hours a month
5:09
for able-bodied
5:11
adults without dependents
5:12
under 14 years of age,
5:16
Probably end of next year, so December
5:19
2026,
5:20
December 31,
5:22
but no later than 12/31/2028.
5:26
That's the mandate.
5:28
And so one of the things we'll look
5:30
at is making sure that our eligibility,
5:34
which is determined by our social service agency,
5:38
is kept up to date, And we, as
5:40
the health plan, are aware of who is
5:43
and is not eligible to receive services.
5:46
So our initial preparation
5:48
is, one, letting people know that right now,
5:51
nothing has changed.
5:53
Next, as we get ready to start implementing
5:56
eligibility
5:57
changes,
5:58
most likely, that'll begin to at the 2026.
6:03
Then on the financing, and you're asking how
6:05
are we preparing for it financially,
6:08
we currently have about a hundred and twenty
6:11
days of cash on hand.
6:13
And that doesn't sound like a lot,
6:16
but we spend between 350
6:18
and $400,000,000
6:21
a month in medical care and overhead.
6:24
Our medical care, we spend about 94¢
6:28
of every dollar on care.
6:30
Our administrative
6:32
overhead last year, we're just closing the books,
6:35
for our last fiscal year, which ended June
6:38
30,
6:39
is 4.2%
6:41
to 5.2%.
6:43
The year will close out at 5.2
6:45
for the full year.
6:47
That is one of the lowest administrative overheads
6:50
of any health plan I'm aware of in
6:51
the state of California.
6:53
So we're preparing by being very fiscally prudent,
6:57
and we are preparing to make sure that
6:59
we have adequate reserves in case there's a
7:01
interruption
7:03
in revenues from either the state or the
7:05
feds.
7:06
So those are some of the initial things
7:08
we're looking at, Jacob.
7:10
Absolutely. And and such an important call out
7:12
that you made there in the beginning, Michael,
7:13
that benefits have not been affected yet, and
7:17
these changes will really start to become,
7:20
more real towards the end of next year,
7:22
and that your members need to be proactive
7:24
with with, getting their services now before anything
7:27
concretely
7:28
changes.
7:30
I'm glad you brought up the work requirements
7:32
piece of all this because that's been, you
7:34
know, some of the main focus, we've seen
7:36
across the media, certainly one of the biggest
7:38
changes,
7:39
for Medicaid.
7:40
So
7:41
can you talk about how you think the
7:43
relationship
7:44
between,
7:45
just in California, the Medi Cal
7:47
with the states and then with your organization,
7:50
a managed care organization,
7:52
how will that influence the relationship between,
7:55
states and and these and private insurers across
7:58
the country?
8:00
So
8:01
we work very closely here in California with
8:03
the Department of Health Care Services,
8:06
DHCS.
8:08
We also for those that have,
8:11
covered California
8:12
exchange products, we work closely with the Department
8:15
of Managed Health Care, the DMHC.
8:19
And then from a regulatory
8:21
standpoint,
8:22
our commercial
8:23
plans here in the state,
8:25
we have a a board called the California
8:28
Association of Health Plans. I have the privilege
8:30
of serving on that board,
8:32
and it's representative of both the commercial
8:36
as well as the
8:38
public plans.
8:39
And I think together,
8:41
we try to work very collaboratively
8:44
with DHCS
8:45
and DMHC
8:47
to come up with policy and implementations
8:50
that make sense,
8:51
but also understanding
8:53
the state has to maintain its budget and
8:55
has its struggles, of course.
8:57
But we wanna be as collegial as possible.
9:00
We wanna work on solutions
9:02
together.
9:04
And so to the great credit of the
9:06
Department of Health Care Services, the director,
9:10
of DHCS here in California
9:12
is very amenable to meeting.
9:15
It is a very professional
9:17
staff.
9:19
We look at the problems together. We offer
9:22
suggestions,
9:22
recommendations.
9:24
DHCS does reach out to us and ask
9:27
for input,
9:28
and, we're allowed to be able to offer
9:31
suggestions and recommendations
9:33
on implementation.
9:35
We know that implementing work requirements
9:38
and implementing some of the financing changes
9:42
is going to require a lot of collaboration,
9:44
a lot of coordination, and a lot of
9:47
communication.
9:49
And so as we move forward together,
9:51
we are going to try to
9:53
do that
9:55
with as little disruption and impact to services
9:58
to our members.
9:59
Couple of examples.
10:02
On the financing side,
10:04
we have to rely on actuaries. Those are
10:07
the individuals that are skilled
10:10
in looking at, okay, how sick is the
10:13
population?
10:14
And what we do is we look at
10:16
all the claims that get filed for medical
10:19
care.
10:20
And each one of those claims is attached
10:22
to a condition,
10:25
and it gets a numerical
10:27
number.
10:28
And we can aggregate and pull together all
10:30
that data
10:32
and start to project
10:33
how how high of a risk is this
10:36
population,
10:37
how what is their propensity
10:39
for being healthy or unhealthy.
10:42
And then the state, along with us, negotiate
10:45
to set rates
10:47
to be able to reimburse
10:48
to cover the costs that are allowable under
10:51
the Medicaid program.
10:53
And in turn, we pass those monies on
10:55
to the doctors and hospitals
10:58
and providers that provide the care.
11:01
Right now, we are relooking at, okay, if
11:04
there's gonna be changes in enrollment
11:07
and eligibility
11:09
changes,
11:10
and we have, let's say, a 20% decrease
11:13
in the number of individuals that are eligible
11:16
for Medi Cal,
11:17
what does that do to the risk and
11:20
how healthy or unhealthy is the population,
11:23
and how much are we going to need
11:25
in order to take care of them.
11:27
So this is complex work. I'm trying to
11:30
simplify it here for understanding.
11:33
But go forward, we will have to work
11:35
very closely with our state and federal partners
11:39
as we take care of our almost million
11:42
folks. In the Medicare population alone, we have
11:45
a 127,000
11:47
seniors,
11:48
of which about two hundred and eighty five
11:51
are centenarians.
11:53
That's that's a lot of folks over 100
11:55
years old, and I know it because I
11:57
signed birthday cards to all of them.
11:59
But in that, we have to understand
12:02
how that population
12:03
is staying or not staying healthy.
12:06
And our largest
12:08
growing number of individuals
12:10
is our senior population.
12:13
So we are gonna have to be very
12:15
diligent as we look at the finance models
12:17
go forward
12:18
because the seniors, as we age, we become
12:21
more expensive.
12:23
So those are some of the collaborations that
12:25
we will undertake
12:26
with our state and federal colleagues on rate
12:30
setting go forward.
12:32
Absolutely. No. It's a very you're making it
12:34
very clear. This is going to be a
12:36
significant lift for for the Medicaid system,
12:39
for for companies like yours.
12:41
And it's good it's it's good to hear
12:42
that the state is being proactive in in
12:44
managing through some of those challenges that you
12:46
foresee,
12:47
Michael. And I and I I wonder if
12:49
you would offer any advice to others listening
12:51
in, who are also operating in the Medicaid
12:54
states all over the country in terms of,
12:57
how to begin navigating some of these challenges
12:59
that you're foreseeing,
13:01
that will pop up as as this this
13:03
moves forward?
13:05
So, Jacob, I think one of the key
13:07
things, especially in our roles, you know, I
13:10
have
13:11
this great privilege
13:12
to be the current CEO
13:15
at CalOptima Health here in Orange County. I'm
13:18
standing on the shoulders of of the other
13:21
CEOs and the staff
13:23
and the community that have gone
13:25
many, many years before my time here.
13:28
And then I will have my time and
13:30
move on and be part of the heritage
13:32
and legacy.
13:33
But one of the things that we have
13:35
proactively
13:36
worked very hard to do is to create
13:39
communications
13:40
with our county partners.
13:42
In a lot of circumstances,
13:44
the Medicaid program that's operated by the county
13:48
health plan
13:50
is separate from the county,
13:52
and we have a social service agency that
13:55
actually does the eligibility,
13:58
helps the individuals to fill out the applications.
14:03
The social service agency for the county is
14:05
the one that actually submits the application to
14:08
the state.
14:09
The state says yes or no,
14:12
then sends back a file to the social
14:14
service agency saying, here are all the eligible
14:17
members that have been approved.
14:19
The social service agency then sends us a
14:22
file
14:24
and says, please go ahead and proceed to
14:26
put these folks on the Medi Cal role
14:29
in Orange County.
14:30
We issue an insurance card,
14:33
assign them to a medical group and a
14:35
medical home and a primary care doctor.
14:38
What we have done the last few years
14:40
is that we have had routine standing meetings
14:43
with the executive leadership of the social service
14:46
agency,
14:47
and we work hand in hand,
14:50
with the director and his team.
14:53
We go to community
14:55
events together.
14:56
They're there with their computers and their multilingual
14:59
staff signing people up and helping them navigate
15:03
the application
15:05
process to remain eligible or to achieve eligibility
15:09
for Medi Cal.
15:11
We go to those same community events, and
15:13
we have our informational
15:15
booth,
15:16
And we actually coordinate
15:18
our communications
15:20
with the county social service agency
15:23
so that the members in the community in
15:25
all nine threshold languages that we have, English,
15:29
Spanish, Vietnamese,
15:31
Chinese, Korean,
15:32
Farsi, Russian, etcetera,
15:35
that we're both saying the exact same thing,
15:38
that we're sending the exact same messages.
15:41
Even the most recent letter we sent out,
15:44
and we text our members.
15:46
We do about 250,000
15:48
texts a a week,
15:51
and we told them, hey. Your privacy is
15:53
is protected. Your benefits and eligibility have remained
15:56
the same, and please go get your health
15:58
care.
15:59
We are both saying the same thing.
16:02
I would encourage those around the country that
16:05
listen in, and I have great regard, Jacob,
16:07
for Becker's and their reach in health care
16:10
and their updates that you send out on
16:13
all sorts of disciplines,
16:15
I would encourage them to have strong working
16:18
relationships.
16:19
The way it started for us,
16:21
I picked up the phone and I called
16:23
the director of the social service agency, and
16:26
I said, this is who I am. I'd
16:28
really like to start to work better with
16:30
you.
16:31
Let's get together and have a conversation.
16:34
And it started with a dinner.
16:37
And from there, we have built a standing
16:40
relationship.
16:41
We work collaboratively
16:43
at community events together,
16:45
and we're now planning and coordinating with all
16:48
these changes because
16:50
they field about 80,000
16:52
phone calls a month. We field about 80,000
16:56
a month.
16:57
Now we're saying the same thing
17:00
from the same talking points to ensure that
17:02
members are getting consistent
17:05
information.
17:06
That to me would be a huge win
17:09
for the community and our Medi Cal, Medicaid
17:12
members
17:14
that they're counting on us to get this
17:16
stuff right.
17:18
And I don't know that we can do
17:19
that if we're in separate silos.
17:21
So I would really strongly encourage,
17:24
try to punch a hole in the silo
17:27
and, string a phone line across
17:29
and talk to your colleague at the county
17:32
where,
17:33
they do the eligibility,
17:35
and you as the health plan provide the
17:37
care
17:38
communicate with each other. That would be one
17:40
of my key messages, Jacob.
17:42
Absolutely. Working, you know, more closely with your
17:45
state partners and and engaging more deeply,
17:48
with your community and with your members and
17:49
patients,
17:50
is is clearly going to be so key
17:52
here over the next few years.
17:55
Michael, throughout this entire process over these last
17:57
several months in terms of,
18:00
what we've been hearing from from the insurance
18:02
community and from providers and and large hospital
18:05
groups all over the country, There's a real,
18:07
fear here around what is coming over over
18:10
the next decade,
18:12
and certainly what we've heard on the ground
18:14
from from members and from patients all over
18:17
the country,
18:18
worried about losing their benefits.
18:21
So on the flip side of of that,
18:23
is there anything you would mention,
18:25
in terms of specific provisions of the bill
18:27
that you think could potentially
18:30
reduce administrative burdens or or even just create
18:33
new opportunities for innovation,
18:36
in in managed care?
18:38
So one of the things that I'm hopeful
18:40
of
18:41
is that
18:43
together in our individual communities, if you've seen
18:47
one county in The United States, you've seen
18:50
one county. Each community is unique in itself.
18:54
And I do have great concerns about what
18:58
HR one and the the changes will do,
19:01
especially to our hospital partners.
19:04
The bill
19:05
is to trim out 1,200,000,000,000.0
19:09
over the next ten years into 2034.
19:14
Of that, 665,000,000,000
19:18
will come out of our hospitals across the
19:20
country.
19:22
Just here in California,
19:24
that'll be about a $119,000,000,000
19:28
reduced
19:29
here in the community.
19:31
So we are all gonna have to get
19:33
very innovative
19:35
about managing our overhead
19:38
and managing the delivery of care.
19:41
Those innovations
19:42
will also include the implementation
19:44
of AI technologies,
19:46
hopefully, that will make
19:48
processes and functions more efficient.
19:52
Given our administrative
19:54
overhead right now,
19:56
at 5.2%,
19:57
which is, like I said, the lowest that
20:00
I'm aware of in the state with either
20:01
a public or private plan.
20:04
One of the things that we have done
20:05
is starting
20:07
to really
20:08
medically
20:09
manage and oversee
20:11
our key services. So in transplants
20:13
alone,
20:14
we're responsible
20:15
for about a hundred and seventy transplants a
20:18
year,
20:19
and we brought a specialty doctor in who
20:22
is a transplant surgeon.
20:25
And now he's overseeing,
20:27
our transplant
20:28
program,
20:30
and he has been able to streamline
20:33
the
20:33
transplant process,
20:35
streamline and eliminate a lot of
20:38
duplicate or unnecessary
20:40
testing,
20:41
and make much quicker decisions to approve a
20:44
transplant go forward
20:46
or indicate that the patient really doesn't have
20:49
the clinical,
20:51
capability of accepting a transplant
20:54
and making
20:55
really,
20:56
upfront good clinical decisions.
21:00
We did it because I really felt it
21:02
was imperative that we coordinate our care
21:05
and that patients get timely care and not
21:08
be waiting so long for transplants or to
21:11
get on the list for a transplant.
21:14
I then had a request. Well, how are
21:16
we doing with that program? And so I
21:18
ran some financial numbers,
21:20
Keeping in mind, we didn't go into this
21:23
process
21:24
for a financial reason, but we discovered
21:27
because we were managing the program, eliminating a
21:30
lot of duplication and unnecessary
21:33
repeated tests, and it's very expensive in the
21:36
transplant world,
21:38
we ended up reducing our year over year
21:41
cost for transplants by $20,000,000.
21:45
That's an efficiency that if we multiply that
21:48
by all the health plans across the state
21:50
doing transplants,
21:52
what impact could we have
21:54
on really
21:56
not slowing down care, but speeding it up,
21:59
but being a lot more efficient?
22:01
Those are the types of innovations we're gonna
22:03
have to work on together.
22:05
And I think we have been very good
22:07
about wanting to share our experiences. And I
22:10
think
22:11
if there are things that plans are doing
22:13
today that are working well,
22:16
it would be nice to create a toolkit
22:18
of here's what's working well, and we're willing
22:20
to share the white paper
22:22
or the details.
22:24
We are currently preparing a white paper on
22:27
our transplant program
22:29
to share with everybody
22:30
how we were able
22:32
to speed it up,
22:34
become more efficient,
22:35
and the byproduct was we preserved
22:38
very precious health care dollars.
22:41
So that's a little bit about what we
22:42
might be able to do together to innovate.
22:46
Sure. Sure. That's a it's a great example,
22:48
and I I do hope some of our
22:49
listeners take you up on that that white
22:51
paper offer,
22:52
Michael.
22:54
Before we go, we we've heard from GOP
22:57
lawmakers throughout this process and and certainly after
23:00
the bill's passing that the focus here has
23:02
been on improving Medicaid's
23:04
sustainability in the long term.
23:07
So what's your perspective on that given given
23:09
the position you sit in? What do you
23:11
think are some of the most important strategies
23:13
moving forward here, in terms of preserving the
23:16
long term viability
23:18
of the managed care system?
23:21
So we are a firm believer here in
23:23
Orange County. We have had
23:26
a long history of managed care, Medicaid, or
23:29
what we call Medi Cal again.
23:32
And we currently delegate
23:34
about 700,000
23:36
of our members to nine large delegated
23:40
medical groups.
23:42
I believe we are the highly the most
23:45
highly delegated,
23:47
health plan on the Medicaid side in California,
23:52
and we have worked very closely with our
23:54
managed care medical group partners.
23:57
We have seen that a member being in
24:00
managed care
24:01
gets far better care than if they're fee
24:04
for service.
24:06
Why?
24:07
They have a medical home, so they belong
24:09
to a medical group and a clinic and
24:12
a primary care doctor.
24:14
Two,
24:15
that managed care model
24:17
reaches out to them consistently
24:19
for their medical care reminders of their checkups,
24:23
reminders of their medications,
24:26
making sure they're following up on any of
24:29
their disease issues or health issues,
24:32
and that they're being managed from a case
24:35
management standpoint
24:37
and given access to other services that we
24:39
as the health plan provide
24:41
or they, as the medical group, provide.
24:44
So we believe that being in a managed
24:47
care model
24:48
in a medical group
24:50
with a medical home and a primary care
24:53
doctor is better for your health
24:56
than being fee for service and no one's
24:58
really tracking or following up for you.
25:02
I do think that it's imperative
25:05
that the program
25:07
continue to provide this coverage
25:10
for those that are low income or live
25:12
below the federal poverty level.
25:14
We believe
25:16
that that access to care is critical.
25:18
But what we don't wanna have happen and
25:21
which could really impact things severely
25:25
is that the individuals
25:26
lose eligibility.
25:28
The plan changes.
25:30
It doesn't change the fact that they need
25:32
health care, and it doesn't change the fact
25:34
that they will have health crisis.
25:37
And where are they all going to go?
25:40
In the end, what I fear is it'll
25:42
land in the emergency room.
25:44
I ran acute care hospitals for almost thirty
25:47
years of my career. I've been the CEO
25:50
of many hospitals
25:51
and have had the great privilege of working
25:53
with so many amazing doctors and
25:56
communities,
25:57
and I don't want the emergency room to
26:00
become the primary care office
26:02
for millions of people. Here in Orange County,
26:05
from an eligibility
26:06
standpoint,
26:07
we could see up to 200,000
26:09
of our members lose coverage.
26:12
Where are they going to go?
26:15
Set aside any of the other issues that
26:17
go with the access to care and just
26:20
focus on the care part. If you need
26:22
emergency care under EMTALA, under federal rules,
26:27
emergency medical treatment rules.
26:30
Every hospital emergency room has to see you
26:33
whether you have means to pay or not,
26:36
but that is gonna put a huge burden
26:38
on our hospitals. So my hope
26:41
is that we can preserve precious
26:44
dollars, be very efficient in our delivery of
26:46
care,
26:47
and still have the ability through our state
26:50
budget
26:51
to fund the care for individuals
26:54
that have no ability to find care for
26:56
themselves.
26:57
So that's my go forward hope. And on
27:00
a
27:01
on another note, I also believe firmly in
27:03
the goodness of the human heart.
27:06
And I know that there are a lot
27:07
of good folks out in our community
27:10
that will figure out how to create,
27:13
either free clinics, free access to care, free
27:16
access to pharmaceuticals,
27:19
free access to eye care, free access to
27:21
dental care.
27:23
We have amazingly,
27:25
good
27:26
community organization
27:27
organizations
27:28
and philanthropists.
27:29
So I also wanna believe
27:32
that many will step forward to care for
27:34
our community.
27:36
Wonderful. I I think that's a great last
27:39
note to leave things on, Michael. So I
27:41
wanna thank you for taking the time to
27:43
sit down with us and and for sharing
27:45
your perspective
27:47
on what is such an important issue,
27:49
especially in the in the years to come.
27:51
So so thank you for taking the time.
27:53
Jacob, thank you. And our our thanks to
27:55
Becker's as well for hosting this. And,
27:59
on my final final note, I really encourage
28:02
folks out there that are responsible for these
28:04
populations.
28:06
Make sure that you always have that element
28:09
of love
28:10
that, we are really here to care for
28:13
each other,
28:14
And, this is really important work, and our
28:17
community
28:19
is truly counting on us to get it
28:21
right. So, Jacob, thank you.
28:23
Yeah. Thank you, Michael. And and to our
28:25
listeners, if you'd like to listen to more
28:27
podcasts from Becker's Health Care, you can visit
28:28
beckershospitalreview.com.