Latest / The Source – The Jorgensen Land & Cattle Podcast / Episode 14: Artificial Insemination with ST Genetics

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Episode 14: Artificial Insemination with ST Genetics · The Source – The Jorgensen Land & Cattle Podcast

• speaker-0: Hello folks, welcome back to the source. I am at Texas AM University today at Beef Kettle Short Course and have a pretty cool episode coming today because I'm joined by a guy that we got pretty close thanks to the Beef Leaders Institute, the American Angus Association, and one of his colleagues. So first off, I want to introduce Zach Claude Felter, ST Genetics. Zach Why don't you go ahead and just just give the folks who you are, a little bit of background and then we'll introduce Jared following that. speaker-1: Yeah, so I'm a regional sales manager for the beef semen division of ST genetics and would cover the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Arizona, New Mexico. and kinda my role would help out a little bit with Bull acquisitions and identifying bulls and that kind of thing to bring in, but the main responsibility I have is supporting and assisting the field of independent sales reps that we have across the country, which we've got about forty in my territory. I think there's about a hundred and fifty ish roughly nationwide. but Jared would be one of those guys. and those you know, their their responsibility basically, they're kinda the boots on the ground locally that know the producers and get out and kinda are the face of the company you know to the customers. And so I just help them out when I can and try to support as much as we can to set everybody up for success. speaker-0: Yeah, and you know, Zach, when we first talked about doing this, you know, I reached out to you because we have that relationship and I was pretty excited when you told me you wanted to have Jared join us. we're both maybe young and dumb sometimes. so nice to have a little bit of wisdom. So Jared Monford with Montford Cattle Services, would you go ahead and introduce yourself and some background here to the to the folks? So my name is Jared Montford, Montford Cattle Services we run operate out of Bridgeport, Texas. I'm a fifth generation Calkef producer. Been on the same ground since eighteen eighty eight. my dad and my grandmother started AIing in nineteen eighty eight sold the bulls in eighty nine so we're thirty-five years without a bull on the place. Wow. And Started achieving pretty good success just basically by culling the right cow and keeping the right offspring out of those that are fertile. Yes, sure. So we run about a 90% conception rate on first service with conventional semen. Wow. And then we've seen that also with sex semen at our operation. And then we do embryo transfer on farm with sex semen, and then we take that to the field and work with our clients, both the arm service for AI and then the Embryo transfer work. Wow. And so were you right there one of the first people when you guys started into that AI project in 88, Jared? I was about seven years old at the time, and my grandmother didn't trust me, so you've got to give me a few more years before I was able to get my arm into cows, but probably late middle school is when I started arming cows and getting pregnancies. Wow, that is that is wild. So would you ST wouldn't have been around yet? So when did that connection happen for you Jared and kinda where did you start? So I started working for Gen X in twenty fourteen and then transitioned into S T in twenty nineteen. Okay. Okay. what I wanna do a little bit just to start with is talk about just the way the AI industry has evolved over the last, you know, for you guys since eighty eight and You at Jorgensen Lanic Cattle, we're we're very proud to talk about it because Martin Jorgensen was one of the first ones to go to bat to to bring open AI to the Angus breed. And my goodness what a change to the industry it was at that point. it it would look completely different today, would it not? so Jared and Zach, I'll let you guys kinda take it where you wanna go here. Jared, maybe you start as far as how things have changed up to two thousand nineteen and then you and Zach can ban her a little bit about when you all got together and started So I'll back you up a whole lot farther than that. In our little county in Texas, everybody was dairy producers. Yes, sir. Back in the 40s, 50s, and 60s and 70s and so on and so forth. 200 head was a very large dairy. Absolutely. We were just like them, we had a about a 75 head dairy long before Alice ever thought about or born. So in the 50s, my grandmother would hire out somebody to come and AI her holstein cows. Right. So it was in the late 80s when we decided when we sold out the dairy industry and got into beef cattle that they decided. decided to start doing it personally themselves on their own dairy cattle, I mean on their own beef cattle versus having it hired out. So we actually started in the in the AI business back in the late 50s with everybody else. But we started dabbling with sex semen in 2007. Okay. with Bonview New Design 878 ABS is first bull they put out and we actually hit like what they were expecting 20% lower conception rate. Not going to be very successful on cows but would expect pretty good success on E first and We exactly saw that. We thought that that was very transparent in what we received and we have a lot of our cows in our cow families that still go back to that original Sex Siemen use of two thousand and seven when those offspring hit the ground in two thousand and eight. Okay. So let's go back towards towards eighty eight. You know, do you feel like there was much change in the AI industry up to seven? was it just protocols, different Different setup drugs that side of it or was there actual change in how semen was collected, froze, and delivered to you? We started using natur catching all natural services on natural heats and bringing off a natural heats. And still today we do that very heavily. Now since about two thousand and two, two thousand and three with the implant impl implementing cedars, we started adding cedars to our protocol. So instead of watching twenty one days for an actual standing heat for our first service, now we're watching a three day window of catching all of our cows and heat. So we still use the old seven days co sink with cedars where you put a G and R H shot on the front end. put a cedar in and then seven days later pull that cedar out with a shot of prostaglandin and then we do heat detect after that and we're still using the same one. You're probably not gonna get me to change. And the reason why is I've not seen enough data to tell me that one is better than the other one. You bet. You bet. Well as we've rolled up to to now Zach coming into to ST w what year did you start with ST? speaker-1: I started with S T in January of twenty twenty, so r right on the front side of when COVID kicked off. fun interesting times, yeah. But would have started in the office, answering the phone and just doing some consulting in our call center and that kind of thing. And then I guess about a year later, got the opportunity to go to outside sales and was a territory manager, started in the Dakotas and Minnesota, added Montana and Wyoming, and then I guess it would have been think it was July of twenty four. Twenty-three or twenty-four. Anyways. it all runs together. It's slept since then. But switched to the eastern US. Okay. Covered that for about three years for the the outside sales and then just over a year, about a year and a half now I've covered, you know, this kind of our southern region. But yeah, back in twenty twenty is kind of when I got my start. speaker-0: And what had your experience been with the AI industry before before you started it? speaker-1: Yeah, so we my dad was a a crop farmer, row crop farmer in southern Illinois, and we just had commercial cows. And so growing up, we just had a herd bull and kind of turned out that kind of thing. my mother's side of the family was in the purebred scimitol business and we did some showing, was in 4 H and and got got to compete at a lot of national shows. And so that's probably where my first introduction to AI was. our local vet did all the breeding for us and kinda outsource most of that. And then I guess the first time I really got to dabble in it myself was when I was in junior college. went through a an AI training course and got to arm some dairy cows and get a you know, kind of a rough understanding of it then and then transferred from junior college down to Texas AM and went through a repro class and got a lot more extensive understanding of the process and everything there. And then it just kinda built from there and and ST has been a wealth of knowledge as far as learning that, you know, understanding how the business works and then on the backside of collections and media and and handling and all that kind of thing. It's been really cool. speaker-0: Absolutely, absolutely. And so so Jared, talk to me a little bit about from somebody that is an independent cattle service company, how your relationship works with your commercial customers or the customers you're breeding cattle for and the companies that you're you're getting semen from. To talk a little bit about, you know, how you consult with your customers and and what you're what you're pushing for them to use that side of it. So typically the phone rings and answer the phone, they wanna do a consulting and possibly start doing some AI and investigating and that first starts with a farm visit and my eyes are open long before I ever get there. I'm looking at grass, I'm looking at manure, I'm looking if you've got mineral tubs out, if you don't have mineral tubs out or and before I get to your house and see you in person, I've already got a really good assessment of what we're gonna be faced with. And then I wanna look at your pens. The last thing I'm gonna look at is your cow herd. Right. because I gotta l we have to understand that that We're breeding these cows one day out of the year. One day. We have a three hundred and sixty-five day management plan for one day, one straw semen, and how are we going to be beneficial with that one that one dose of semen? So I'm looking back based upon grass production, weather, mineral, manure, all of that stuff to kind of see where we are sitting at from a management standpoint long before we ever get there. And we can kind of have a An understanding of kind of what we're expecting to see on a conception rate just through that drive up to where your pins are located at. Right. So that's kind of where I start with my discussion. And I just start with my discussion with I am not interested to breed their cows this year and never again. Right. I want to breed their cows for the next five years, the next 10 years, the next 15 years, the next 20 years. So wherever we are at that moment, that's our baseline. Right. Now all we can do is go up from there based upon how we do that 365 day calc management. program so I try to bring an entire whole herd approach from a 365 day management program and and I draw off of that obviously from other clients that I've worked with but also from our own personal ranches successes and failures because for us to hit a 90% conception rate and do that consistently from for 25 consecutive years we had our headaches we had our downfalls we had those train wrecks and and they are learning curves if you listen to what it telling you. Yep. So I try to bring all that into that consultation and say, hey, let's do X, Y, and Z and let's change a little bit of our management strategies moving forward so we can really see a good conception rate, not necessarily this year, right, but in the upcoming years to come. Right. And so I I I want both you Jared and Zach to answer this. When somebody calls the phone rings about an AI project, I'm guessing typically it is not this time of year. We're sitting here in July. And and it would be nice if it would have been, right, for us to actually put the correct kind of planning speaker-1: Yeah, no, not a whole lot going on, especially in Texas and the southern states, you know, the Gulf Coast states this time of year it's just There's people doing it, don't get me wrong. sometimes we advise differently just because of the weather conditions and that kind of thing. Plus you're the kind of more in between true summer and fall you get. You gotta think about the backside of that too. Those calves are gonna be born in pretty warm weather. Yep. and you know, you got a lot of environmental factors to think of with the screwworm deal and that. I mean, that's more recent development, but you know, it's like Jared said, management and you know, kind of a whole speaker-0: And so like your ideal scenario would be a guy that's gonna breed his cows in April. Like we're having that conversation now where we can start thinking through, go ahead and take it from there, both of you a little bit about the different things that that you wanna pick up on as far as mineral packages, what kind of shape the cows need to be in, what we need to think about going into winter. I I'm a firm believer that if you're below Interstate forty Your breeding season needs to start before April fifteenth. We're gonna see a lot of elevated heat stress coming into those cattle coming into May, especially in the early June when we start seeing eight hours a day above 80 degrees, and that's what they are saying elevated heat stress starts. So we want to kind of get in front of that. That means we're gonna be caving in January. It's Texas, we're fine with that. Absolutely. some producers are completely against it, but especially when we're looking at the screw worm, Kevin out in that colder weather is actually gonna end up being beneficial long term. Right. So through those conversations that I want to have, I want to try to get them on the ball. get them rolling. make for certain that they're pushing enough energy to meet the lactational needs that those cows have to where they're back cycling in 60 days. I'd prefer 50 because then you have more, but if they're cycling in 60 days we can work with them. I really try to push the fact that year-round cow care, those cows need to be in the body condition score for six completely year round. Studies have shown time and time again that that's the cheapest. So keep in the body can you score for six. If they're in a four, we've already lost half of our conception rate that we would have had. so how do we keep those cows moving forward on a year round schedule? So are they on full mineral? We really want to see that full mineral package start. If they haven't started it, we really want to see that full mineral package start at month seven. before long before that cow ever ovulates. and people don't realize that the folliculoever of that cow is actually just under eighty days. Right. So essentially she is pregnant and within a week or two of giving birth. when that ovul when that follicular wave starts that we're gonna use for an ovulation to inseminate that one ovulated egg. So people are thinking, hey, we're thirty days out, we need to do something. Essentially that that chain of events started eighty days ago. Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's all about getting postpartum days right, having the cows in the right kind of shape, the right mineral programs. There's just there's a lot of things that exactly what affect success. that can make you and I look bad Zach when the results aren't what they what they wanted them to be. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm I mean, you know, a lot of my daily conversations, I I really like to from a consultation standpoint, push guys, customers, towards people like Jared that have boots on the ground experience in that region. They do it for themselves. You know, I can preach all day long about protocols and that kind of thing, but it carries way more weight when somebody like Jared can go in and give a, you know, ideally a face to face on site consultation, look at their cows, do all that. But a lot of people, you know, at the end of the day it's really easy to blame semen if something goes sideways. And I totally understand. It it's it's a kind of the low hanging fruit for people that want to get grumpy and you know, I'm not saying that that never happens. There's lots of variables involved in the process, you know, with handling and protocols and that kind of thing. But man, if you could get everybody to understand that, like Jared said, it's one day. Right. And if you don't have all of your ducks in a row up to that day, it has a huge effect on how successful or unsuccessful you are with that process. So it's part of it, you know, we're in the industry like that. Customer service, you're gonna you're gonna run into issues every once in a while. But the best thing we can do is try to get ahead of that and at the very least express our opinion and try to give them the option to get, you know, set up and right to where we know that it's going to be successful and try to control as much as we can control on the human side. To let the cow do her job, the semen do its job. Yep. You know, and the calves essentially or replacement heifers or bulls, whatever they're making. Right. Basically strive long term. So speaker-0: And in reality it's really never the semen. If you've got viable semen, it's never the semen. It it it always boils right back down to some kind of a management either a a cut corner or a you don't know what you don't know type of an issue. And that's kind of where I try to step in. And I'm probably the worst on genetic consultation as much as I am a whole herd consultation. we can the bull that you want to use will get you there, but you're whole lot farther down the road if your cow management's where it needs to be prior to breeding. It's really, really inevitable. speaker-1: You bet. Especially in a commercial setting. I mean if you can get kinda in the same ballpark as what you need to be for your goals, we have enough bulls that we can we have a lot of confidence in, proven bulls that we know are gonna work, and if they're not as picky on the bull side, it's it's like clockwork, we can plug one in and know that we're gonna succeed long term. speaker-0: Yeah, and some of them bulls are just sticky. I mean it it some of them do make you look like a hero no matter what you said. speaker-1: Yeah, and a lot of them honestly will overcome some of the management mistakes too. So I mean that's that's one part of the consultation too. If if we know that it's less than ideal or the cows are a little skinny or working facilities are a little sketchy and the cows are a little fast or something, you know, whatever the factor may be, if we have a bull that we have a lot of confidence in that we can plug in there that's proven to kind of cover some gaps there, we do that as much as we can too. speaker-0: And Jared you talked about stepping into Sex Semen and in your operation and in O seven for Kiev's hitting the ground in O eight. And and now you work with with S T and the bread and butter being their sexing technology. Talk a little bit about why you made that step into Sex Semen and were willing to to live with in the early days the conception rate loss and the learning curves that had to come with it. Well To be honest, at the end of the day, we have to be in charge of our future. A and I need to know that every single Kefborn moves my needle as far forward as it can, whether that being a genetic evaluation or that being a financial gain, whatever the case may be. I always use the analogy that your cows are your employees. Yep. And they have to maximize profitability with every single calf crop. Yes sir. If that cows j needs to give you a replacement heifer and she gives you a steer, she failed you. But in reality she didn't fail you. You failed her because you didn't give her the tools she needed to do the job. Right. So by using sex semen, you're using you're giving her the tools she needs to do the job. So I started making a transition in twenty nineteen into sec into ST genetics because I knew that if that was going to be the pedestal I was gonna stand on from our operation, then I needed to be able to carry that integrity through with my clientele. So kind of backtrack into where we are today. We were five years exclusively with sex semen. Okay. we use the last four to rebuild our herd completely with sexed heifer semen, both in the AI and the embryo trade, flushing our own cows at our own house. And then this year currently in Udrow Kevin out in September is a hundred percent sexed male on our first service. Okay. So because I don't need any more heifers currently so it it's all about driven by profit. Right. Right. So So you you've gone back and you've you've overhauled the cowherd. Correct. We've we've made all the replacement heifers we need to make. So now this year you wanna recoup as much cost as you can so you made all bulls. Absolutely. And on top of that we have our last set of development heifers currently being developed. So what that allows me to do is to put some of that money from the current cow her cow herd back into this development cost on these heifers and then i it it's gravy from here on out. Right. As far as dollars are concerned. Yeah. So if you're gonna go in and start talking about somebody that you're gonna work with that's gonna go into an AI project. And you're with S T but we're gonna talk, you know we're gonna go conventional, we're gonna use sexed, or we're gonna breed these cows sex or these cows conventional. Kinda just just talk about how that conversation happens and I know Jared has that as much as you do, Jared, so both of you, please just kinda talk about how you go into that that conversation. So the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna tap the brakes. Yep. If you've never AI'd, I do not Do not, do not, do not want you using sex seamen. Yep. Because now it becomes the easiest thing to blame. Right. We need to find out where your baseline is. Let's find out your baseline with conventional seamen. if you're happy with where you are on breeding and if you're c consistently increasing conception rate five percent a year, so on and so forth, and you go from industry average sixty percent, I feel like when you're starting to hit that seventy percent threshold, now let's change gears and now let's do a hundred percent sex semen and see how we fall. Yep. I I I I'm a firm believer that it's a tool in your toolbox But it is never the first tool. It is an elite tool. Yep. And you have to lay the base work down. You have to lay that groundwork down with conventional semen long before you can never start playing with sex semen. Or or it will be an epic failure and you're gonna hate AI, you're gonna hate sex semen, you're gonna hate everything in the process because it wasn't a better understanding on the front end. Right. And I I love how you how you brought that up because, you know, at Jorgensen's with our genomic evaluation and and talking about putting the right bulls in the right places. We know every single one of 'em's a tool and every single one of those cows is a tool. If there's a bunch of ten millimeter cows out there, I'll probably need a bunch of ten millimeter socket bulls. But I but I don't need a truckload of three quarter inch sockets. Not yeah, exactly. So, you know, I love how you bring up let's know what we have. A and I'm gonna add to that that home plates 17 inches wide. If that cow cannot consistently throw over 17 inch home plate, she has to go. Right. So we may keep that cow around so she brings us money, even though she's throwing balls and not strikes. But I'm gonna maximize that cow's efficiency because she can throw strikes, and that's the ones I'm gonna start using sex semen on to keep replacement heifers out of first because she fits what I need on that 17-inch home plate. Yep, you bet. speaker-1: Yeah, and I'll I'll touch on that a little bit too, your earlier comment about, you know, kind of a hybrid between sex and conventional. You see a lot of it, I think, in the the beef on dairy space. the dairymen are as progressive with genomics and genetic testing and that kind of thing as anybody and so they've got their finger on the pulse. twenty four seven of which of their cows they want to propagate and and reproduce with and which ones that you know are filling the need in terms of milk production or cheese or whatever that they don't necessarily want heifers out of. And they'll go, you know, kind of the Angus route or a beef route on those and use sex semen to achieve that. And I think as we progress as beef producers, you know, we're still fighting the battle of adopting genomics and all that. We're we're behind the dairy deal as much as we don't want to admit it in terms of producers accepting that technology and utilizing it as a tool like Jared said, but I think long term if we can find a way Whether it's, you know, seed stock guys obviously are are way more in tune with that in most cases than what commercial guys are. But if you can get your average commercial producer to run some kind of genomic test to figure out what they have, identify those cows individually, you know, tagging calves, I know, throwing rocks here. But if we can fine-tune that process, it makes it way easier long term to maximize the genetic value of your good cows. cows while also utilizing, you know, what I'll call kind of like placeholder cows that you can use for terminal production or whatever you need to do. And so I think in those situations Sex Siemen really shines. But at the same time, like Jared said, I don't think you need to get the cart ahead of the horse in terms of where you're at in the process of just using AI in general. Right. speaker-0: And you know, you and I had this conversation a little bit yesterday about I don't want you to go ahead and say it what the what the biggest competitor that S T Genetics has because as you said, we sit here and throw rocks at each other, as semen companies and steed stock providers, but go ahead and speaker-1: Yeah, I mean we're we're essentially fighting over scraps. I mean we're you know the the bull stud companies are there's healthy competition, we all get along, but you know, at the end of the day we're all kinda arm wrestling but we're getting absolutely whooped by the herdbull. Absolutely. I mean the AI adoption rate in the beef industry as a whole is very, very low. And so, you know, I think it's important for people to realize how much genetic progress you can make using AI. Now I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that there's not some environmental factors and geographies where AI just isn't an option. Right. that's definitely the case in extreme scenarios, but I would venture to guess that the majority of commercial producers would see significant value in utilizing AI just from a genetic perspective, front loading your calving season, synchronizing your cows, all that kind of thing like we've talked about, you know, but the big hurdle is getting past the herdbull because he is he's king right now. speaker-0: Well, yeah, and I think I think Jared brought it up as far as the management that has to take place for you to have success with that AI program. And if you're not doing that, then don't spend that money and try it. You know, let let's make sure that we take a year and we get everything right if that's what we're gonna do. And if we're not willing to do that work, turn the bulls out and be done with it 'cause Not only are you not gonna buy semen from me, then you're not gonna call Zach or Jared either because you're not gonna buy semen from anybody. speaker-1: Yeah, well and the interesting thing about that too is I think if you're gonna talk to somebody who's, you know, staunchly in the camp of using herdbulls let use herdbulls. The the project or the homework I'll give is synchronize your cows. Right. Get that set up. Set up your herdbulls to where, you know, you don't wanna Work them to death obviously, but set it up to where you can see the benefit of synchronization. And you know, lots of people are willing to spend money and buy good herdbulls and that's great, but there's lots of people that aren't. And when you start comparing the numbers and you look at the genetic progress you can make and the access you have in the entry price to those genetics is way cheaper on the AI side than it is going out and trying to buy a twenty, thirty thousand dollar plus book. Bull that you think, you know, for your operation may be a big needle mover, but you know, and it's not just ST, it's bull studs in general. We go out and and identify the superior genetics and I think it's that's something that people often kinda forget about right now is just how much progress you can make there. speaker-0: Well yeah, and we see it even, you know, at at Jorgenson's with genetic testing for our commercial customers and and even using a bull battery, you know, when we know what the holes are, it's amazing how fast we can go where they wanna go. speaker-1: Exactly. Yeah, you the thing I say all the time is you can't manage what you don't measure. And so if you're shooting if you're shooting in the dark, I mean you you don't even know where the target is, you're not gonna be very successful. So I think the big thing is figuring out where you're at on the map and then trying to, you know, plan your route from there. Because if you don't know what you have, you don't know what you need to fix or you don't know what you're really good at as a cow herd. I mean obviously fertility and Calving interval on that is pretty easy to identify, but there's so many other factors now that we can identify with genomics that can set you up for success that I think you're sh really shooting yourself in the foot if you don't at least try it and try to go that direction. speaker-0: And so Jared, now I'm curious a little bit, in your operation at home, are you using any genetic testing on those females? And then with that, what what records are you keeping that's helping you identify what these superior females are gonna be as you move forward? So I can take you back thirty five years and tell you where we're sitting at on every cow on every pregnancy, how many times it took to get her bred. what we did with her offspring, whether or not they followed in her footsteps. And what we want is we want one cow that settles first service every single service. Correct. for the re her remaining part of her life. So I've got a cow that we just started flushing on. She's a twelve year old cow. She's given me eleven sorry, she's giving me ten Kevs as a twelve year old and seventy five sex step for embryos. when you have cows like that that's Kevin every single year, never missing on first service. And no scenarios, those are cows you want to multiply, obviously. Those are your fertile cows. So let's f isolate and find those fertile cows and let's maximize those fertile cows. Right. Another thing that we do, and I know this is really hard for a lot of guys to understand, is we AI those cattle twice in twice a season. If they do not settle on the second service, they're gone. Yep. Remember that's that home plate, seventeen inches wide. She has to kev out she has to get pregnant in in two cycles. Once we get those first service daughters in the replacement pen, that's the only way they're eligible to be in a replacement pen is being on the first service. Then we breed all of those with synchronization sex semen. If they do not settle if they settle on the first service, then they for life are eligible to be in the replacement pen until they fall out. If they settle on the second service, they will be terminal cross placeholder type cows for the rest of their life. I will never keep a daughter out of them. And yes, that's very hard. And it's very hard to swallow. And I probably called just half of the cow the whole the entire nation's cow herd. And that's okay. because if we chase fertility, we can have yield grade, we can have weight gain, we can have winning weights, we can have marbling, we can have feet, legs, other structure, anything else you want. But if we ever neglect fertility, we lose fertility forever. And you gotta start all over again. And fertility is hard, hard to get. Yep. But once you get it, it it is super easy to keep. Right. You just gotta pay attention to what you're doing and measuring or managing what you're measuring. Right. If you can get them bread, you can change them, right? Absolutely. Like if if I need to turn the dial here, you know, Cody Jorgensen always calls it just we're fine-tuning at this point. Absolutely. Don't rock the boat. Yeah, we're we're just we're we're making little tweaks here and there, but as long as we can get bred, we can change Yeah, and I wanna throw a curveball out here that not many people in the nation has ever talked about. I never heard about it, but when I go back and look through our thirty five years of data, I'm seeing some very huge thing just blow out at me. Cows that cycle let's say they cycle on a twenty one day cycle, some cows will cycle on a nineteen day cycle, that doesn't ever change. If they cycle on a twenty three day cycle, that never changes. Wherever they are in their cycle is where they're gonna be for the rest of their life. We have learned that we have our entire cow herd under twenty-one days, twenty-one days and under on that cycle except for one. We have one of them that cycles at a twenty-two-day cycle. So what we have come to learn through all of this is not only is fertility inherit inheritable, highly inheritable when it's good and fertility is highly inheritable when it's bad, but we've learned that those cows that cycle early. Then that 21-day mark is our most fertile females. They also are the same cows that when you do a synchronization protocol, they're the first ones to cycle at the front end of your synchronization protocol. And those cows that cycle later than 21 days are the last ones to cycle. So let's say you're going to be breeding on day three, 60 hours. The cows that was in heat at day four at hour 48, those are your fertile ones. Your cows that are going to be in heat at day at hour 96. Or not at all, those are your least fertile cows. And we have started to see that, but that's a thirty five year study that we've done on farm that sadly nobody in academia is gonna put thirty five years in to follow that and see if they can see the same thing that we're seeing. Right. So it's pretty cool to be able to go back and what you've ma what you've measured, be able to go back and look at it and see, wow, look at those look at what that tells us. You bet. And have there been any and I don't know how much you've tracked it, Jared, have there been any Cow families that have stuck out as being more fertile or has it just been speaker-1: A speaker-0: drive forward of of a group of cows and I'm not gonna say that there's been more cow families as much as there is that we have culled some lines. Okay. I'm gonna say that we've cold more due to a foot issue. We've cold more because that sire line ended up throwing poor quality udders. Okay. Those are the things that I'm gonna say. I'm not gonna say it's a cow family or another cow family. I'm gonna come back and say that the cow families as they set, I'm coming back and realizing that I have bred to a bull I shouldn't have bred to, and I've called that entire lineage out. speaker-1: I'll I'll kind of stack onto that too with I think, you know, to Jared's point, if you everybody, you know, in the AI industry especially, they get their mind wrapped around the idea that one bull one time can fix all the problems. If you have one that's, you know, a quote unquote fixer for feed or utters or whatever the situation may be There's people out there that have the mindset that you can use that bull once and he'll fix all your problems and you'll be golden. Now I do think that there's way more contribution from the cow side than people are willing to admit. Good and bad. but if, you know, somebody like Jared who's put a strong, you know, multi decade effort into identifying the traits that he wants to capitalize on or maximize, if you have a cow base that is hitting all those marks, you're not gonna go off the rails completely with one generation of a bull that maybe didn't hit every mark perfectly. Yep. but also if you maximize that bull and use the right bull and the cow base is behind them, you're gonna really see a lot of success there. And so I think the the main thing there is you have to manage your cows and you have to be strict with your calling and and your management there on the backside. Yep. Because there has never been a perfect bull born. There will never be a perfect bull born. And as many of as we really like and can make progress and do that kind of thing, there's no silver bullet either. Whether hit whether it's semen, whether it's a live bull you turn out. I think you really gotta focus on the cow side and try to maximize both sides of the genetic puzzle there. When you put together you're gonna be setting yourself up for success. speaker-0: Yeah, what we talk about is is if we get the cow piece right, a Jordan Silennon kettle, it doesn't matter what we breed her to. You know, now two generations down the road, if we didn't do the right things, it there may be something pop up. Yes. But to her, we're not gonna mess her up in one meeting. I I will stand on the pedestal and say there's way more to cow power than there ever is to bull power. Yep. And your cow is your backbone of your whole program. Way more than what the bull can ever bring to the table. Yep. And I think, you know, again this all ties back into environment, geography, what your goals are because, you know, we talk about getting the cow piece right and that's gonna mean something different to all three of us sitting here. 'Cause I like a little bit of cow that is cute, chubby and bred on time and wean's a big one and that's the only thing I care about. Whereas to maybe Zach, you know, she's gotta have some carcass traits to go with that or or maybe Jared, you know, she's gotta have, you know, there's gotta be something that's a little different. You know, I deal with that with our genetic partners being in Montana and Minnesota and Nebraska where they've all got just a little different need in that cow herd. And that also helps us when we talk about marketing six thousand head of bulls, where we've got genetic partners spread out. we can typically find something that fits what your ideal is and what Jared's ideal is. You know, so getting the cow piece right ties back into speaker-1: Yeah, I I mean everybody likes a different flavor of ice cream, right? You you're not gonna find one. Like I said, there's no perfect bull. There's also not a universal bull. There's bulls that a lot of people like and can get used nationwide. but that's a something that we try to do as well and I would say most bull studs try to do as well is identify, you know, bulls that can fit multiple markets and and try to have something that everybody can use regardless of your goals. And even selling bulls as a seed stock producer like y'all or or anybody else across the country, there's benefits to having some options for people, but I don't think you need to commit to the idea of having options if it makes you stray from the core principles that you're trying to stick to with your cow herd. So you make your cows fit your environment and your situation. And then you identify the bulls that can maximize that cow's potential, I think. you get off in the weeds way too much with people trying to do too much different stuff at the same time or going in different directions and trying too many different bulls on not enough cows. You know, I a lot of the time when I get questions about this, I really recommend trying to stick to as few bulls in terms of different bulls that somebody plugs in, whether it's AI or herd bulls or anything. You really are able to kinda separate the the wheat from the chaff whenever you've got a consistent sire group and you can look at your cows and say, Okay, what worked, what didn't work and it's way easier to figure that out if you breed all fifty cows to the same bull versus fifty cows to five or ten different bulls, you know, that you get into a mess there and you have way too many variables and you can't get yourself cleaned up very good. speaker-0: Yeah, and you just you have no idea, you know, especially if you don't have years and years of data, get into Jared's situation where he can probably breed those fifty cows to ten different bulls because he knows what's gonna work. When you first start that endeavor, you know you don't have enough information about the cows to make that many different decisions. Breed all the same way to one that should work and that will give you cooling criteria moving forward. Correct me if I'm wrong, guys. Exactly. And in reality, we really can't make that culling decision based upon that one bull on that one season. Right. We really have to wait until we get all them daughters in a contemporary and let them kev out again with a different bull. And now that we've stacked two different bulls on top of each other, now we're gonna decide which female's cutting it, which female's not cutting it, now that we've bred identical two different years in a r two different generations in a row. And then we're gonna we're seeing the ones that are are the wheat and the ones that are the shaft at that moment. You know, we don't wanna pull the trigger on those on those cows to early just because we may or may not have read them to something or that didn't make them shine the first time. speaker-1: Yeah, that's another thing I think a a point to make, especially in the cattle industry. You look at poultry and swine about how quick they can make progress, right? And the thing I think we run into a lot with I know I'm I'm as bad as anybody, you know, when it comes to matings and that kind of thing. You're it takes you a a year, nearly, you know, nine months to get the calf and then you need six months to figure out what your general kind of initial interpretation of that calf's quality is. Yep. But you really don't know until that, you know, if it's a heifer calf until she's two or three years old. Exactly. By that time you've got two more calves on the ground out of that cow. Yep. It's a long, slow process. And a lot of guys get really impatient about where they're trying to go and what they're trying to do and and I get it. I like I said, I'm as bad as anybody and I'm as impatient as anybody when it comes to doing that kind of thing. But man, if you're patient and calculated with how you approach these situations, what seems like it's gonna, you know, you look at the schedule and you're like, man, I'm not gonna know anything until five years from now. Right. But five years, you know, we all know five years f flies if you know and by the time you're at that five year mark, if you've been you know know, disciplined and focused on what you're trying to do, you can have your cow herd if necessary completely turned over. Right. Or you can identify the cows like Jared mentioned that that need to be donors and that you need to replicate on mass scale. So I think patience is another one that people probably overlook sometimes and don't necessarily keep at the top of their list but speaker-0: Yeah, and I I think one thing that we have to remember is we're playing chess. And the mating decision that you make this year sets up one that you're gonna make five years from now. Like all these all pro daughters that we're making now, I'm excited to get accolade back on top of them because I'm s excited for the Sky Mere Bull to be on top of the Acolade All Pro Daughters. Yeah. But that's five years from now that we're gonna finally get to make that mating. speaker-1: Right. But I will say this also is when you get to that five year mark and you've stacked all these genetics that you're really wanting to utilize on top of each other, you get to that five year mark, man, and you're humming. And then it's like, shoot, this is what's everybody growling about? This is easy, you know? Like you could just about plug any bull you want to into the scenario and they're gonna work, you know. So it's and that's the kind of situation that we like to see when somebody's got their ducks in a row on the cow side and they've got their records are accurate and up to date and genomics and all that kind of thing. Yep. Which I you know I think it's important to understand that all of those are just tools and what works in your environment is what works. So I mean the the physical measurements of fertility and production records and all that kind of thing, I think probably trump that for specific scenarios. But man, if if you're not at least looking at the genomics and the EPDs and that kind of thing, just to get yourself pointed in the right direction, I think you're really selling yourself short. speaker-0: Absolutely. So guys, I've taken plenty of your time today and I sure appreciate you both taking the time to sit down with me. I'm gonna start with you, Jared. If you're gonna look at a at a young man twenty-five to thirty, that's just getting deep in the kettle game and he's thinking about starting into an AI project, what is your number one first piece of advice for him to think about as he's starting into that that endeavor? You need to be able to manage a cow and a ball that can score for six. You need to make for certain that you keep your vaccinations up to date. You need to keep make make for certain that her energy levels are accurate for her time of the season. Her phosphorus levels in the mineral program you're using is where it needs to be for reproduction, as well as vitamin A in that mineral pack. If you can catch your body can score in a six, keep your energy right. keep the phosphorus levels where it needs to be in vitamin A, everything else will slowly fall into place. Now, I've said that from a three hundred and sixty five day Cal Caf management. The biggest killer on AI day is not paying attention to cortisol. Cortisol blocks the LH receptors on the ovary. Cortisol is what produces adrenaline. So if that cow's in that fight, flight or flight adrenaline mindset, when she comes down the chute to get bread, she will not ovulate because the L H has a the L H receptors are blocked by cortisol. So you spend all your time doing the right thing and hire the wrong day help and everything that you've done for the last three hundred and sixty five days, you just flush down the toilet. Right. You you negated because you didn't do the proper things as far as a cattle handling standpoint. And even possibly a facilities standpoint, if you know your cattle handling could be a little bit questionable. Absolutely. And you know, I think I think to sum up kind of where you went with that is you have to do the little things right to achieve I always use the the saying that the Dallas Cowboys used to be extraordinary, now they're just ordinary. We can do everything ordinary in our Cal program and we're gonna remain ordinary. Yep. But when we do every little a small thing, a little extra. Yep. A little extra time is about a little extra do you become extraordinary. Yeah. My my dad had a professor tell him in vet school that if you do the ordinary things extraordinarily well, you will go a long ways in this business and Absolutely. The the more I've been in out of college and in the real world it it is more and more true every day. Zach, I'm gonna turn to you. A livestock judger that's sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old, thinking about college and where life's gonna go. What advice do you have for him? 'Cause we weren't there just all that long ago. It's a lot longer than we wanna admit. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, no, it seems like speaker-0: I had the easier question. speaker-1: Lord, yeah, shaping young minds, right? speaker-0: Yeah. No, that's what we're here for. speaker-1: boy. Well, man the the thing that I would say is don't ever feel like you shouldn't try to capitalize on an opportunity because it's out of your wheelhouse. that in general I think it's easy for people to get comfortable. you know, and kinda get into a vein of something that they're comfortable with and and because it's comfortable you don't really branch out or try new things. But for me, you know, I growing up in southern Illinois on a row crop and commercial cattle outfit, I didn't know a whole lot about Texas or the West or anything like that. And I got opportunities and took advantage of opportunities to get out of my backyard and go explore. And it is a scary venture to move a thousand miles away from home without knowing anybody. Yep. And, you know, my mom moved me to college and in August of twenty thirteen at A and and when she pulled away from the house when we moved in, I was like, Well, this is either gonna work or it isn't, you know So I I think getting outside of your comfort zone is the key. I I had a we had a magnet on my fridge growing up in our house that said life begins at the end of your comfort zone. Yep. And so I think if you can you don't need to just go and jump off a cliff necessarily, but if you're constantly pushing the edge of that comfort zone out further and further, you look back ten or fifteen years and realize something that you had always dreamed of or thought that, you know, my gosh, that I'll never be able to make that happen. You turn around and it's you know, that was step one and you've blown past it and achieved a bunch of stuff that you never thought you would. So speaker-0: And and I think sometimes we've all gotta remember that even when it's not a lot of fun right now, there is something good that comes out of that period. Yep. You speaker-1: Absolutely. speaker-0: will learn a lesson through this that will help you and you know, the big man upstairs probably put you in that spot to where you had that piece of knowledge 'cause he knows you're gonna need it a few years. speaker-1: Yeah, and typically as terrible as some of those situations may be and as miserable as they are, you usually gain a very valuable skill in the middle of those situations. So I think y it's not like you want to volunteer for something that's terrible, right? But if you find yourself in the middle of it, like I said, just stay open minded, try to figure out what you can take away from that situation. And it may be something where you realize I never want to do this again. This is the worst. This was a terrible decision. Yep. I regret it completely. And you know for the rest of your life. Yep. At least you tried it and it sucked and you didn't like it, but you move on and you got more confidence about what you do want moving forward. So You bet. There's lessons in everything. You bet. speaker-0: Well, Zach, Jared, I greatly appreciate y'all's time. This has been a lot of fun. folks, this is the source and we will catch you next time. Thank you, Jamie. speaker-1: Thanks for having us.