Latest / Business Roundtable / From Burnout to Blueprint: Building Sustainable Growth

Transcript

From Burnout to Blueprint: Building Sustainable Growth · Business Roundtable

0:31
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm
0:35
Speaker 1: your host, David Carr, stud your Business, and this week
0:38
Speaker 1: I have another brand new guests, Jesse Gilmore, founder of
0:40
Speaker 1: Niche Control with me. I've known Jesse for years, and
0:44
Speaker 1: one of the things I really love about Jesse is
0:46
Speaker 1: his story and you're gonna hear about it about breaking
0:51
Speaker 1: free from the grind and really building scalable systems. If anything,
0:55
Speaker 1: I've known I need scalable systems and processes. And so
1:00
Speaker 1: Jesse has been helping marketing agency owners among other business
1:03
Speaker 1: owners from operators to CEOs, and he's got some great
1:07
Speaker 1: tools and resources we're going to share on the podcast.
1:09
Speaker 1: So welcome to the Business Roundtable. Jesse.
1:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, David. I'm
1:14
Speaker 2: excited to talk to you and your audience.
1:17
Speaker 1: Thank you, absolutely, no, I think you're you're For those
1:20
Speaker 1: of you that have not connected with Jesse or find
1:22
Speaker 1: him on LinkedIn, he's amazing at posting just real world
1:26
Speaker 1: examples from his own life about his journey and where
1:30
Speaker 1: he's at and what he's learned. And he's been so
1:33
Speaker 1: gracious to me sharing some of those resources as well.
1:36
Speaker 1: And so Jesse, you know if you wouldn't mind just
1:39
Speaker 1: step us back, walk us through your journey and what
1:42
Speaker 1: got you tofin found Niche in Control, and you know,
1:46
Speaker 1: just give us your a little bit of a story
1:48
Speaker 1: in your background.
1:49
Speaker 2: Sure absolutely, I can talk probably all thirty minutes. I'll
1:53
Speaker 2: try to keep it relatively short and compect. So Niche
1:57
Speaker 2: and Control is my fourth business, and my first three
1:59
Speaker 2: businesses were based around my skills. If I didn't work, work,
2:02
Speaker 2: didn't get done, didn't really understand a lot about systems,
2:05
Speaker 2: and I felt like a failure. And my first three
2:08
Speaker 2: businesses because they actually dissolved while the business was growing.
2:11
Speaker 2: Because I was working sixty or eighty hour weeks for years,
2:14
Speaker 2: I got to experience what people call burnout, and it's
2:17
Speaker 2: not just a trendy word. It actually sucks. And it
2:22
Speaker 2: wasn't until I went into corporate America where I learned
2:25
Speaker 2: the power of systems and the way of taking knowledge
2:28
Speaker 2: that might be learned through experience or you know, twenty
2:32
Speaker 2: plus years of doing a certain thing and being able
2:34
Speaker 2: to make it more systematic and then be able to
2:36
Speaker 2: train other people on it, that I started realizing in
2:39
Speaker 2: corporate America as the thing that I was missing was systems.
2:42
Speaker 2: So in twenty nineteen, I started Niching Control because the
2:46
Speaker 2: systems that we were building in corporate led towards the
2:48
Speaker 2: business acquisition one hundred and eighty million dollars, and I
2:51
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's kind of cool. I just I
2:54
Speaker 2: learned how businesses get acquired, right, And Niche Control originally
2:58
Speaker 2: was kind of like my fall option, right because if
3:01
Speaker 2: the acquisition happens and I get let go, got to
3:04
Speaker 2: figure out something. And I didn't really understand what my
3:07
Speaker 2: niche really was, which is kind of funny. Niche in
3:09
Speaker 2: control and I started working with business owners, and very
3:13
Speaker 2: quickly I figured out that a lot of business owners
3:17
Speaker 2: do not understand systems, and they do not understand how
3:20
Speaker 2: to make a business not feel like a job and
3:25
Speaker 2: feel more like an actual business. And so I started
3:28
Speaker 2: to work with different types of clients, and through the
3:33
Speaker 2: grace of God, I connected with a marketing agency owner
3:36
Speaker 2: and took them from fifteen thousand to one hundred thousand
3:38
Speaker 2: and nine months, and I was like, WHOA, Okay, So
3:41
Speaker 2: I figured out something, and what I started to do
3:45
Speaker 2: was package kind of what we had done over those
3:47
Speaker 2: nine months and put it into something I call leverage.
3:50
Speaker 2: For growth, which we'll probably talking about lot more about
3:53
Speaker 2: and over the last five and a half years of
3:56
Speaker 2: specialized in marketing agencies and helping them really transition from
4:01
Speaker 2: being that operator, the same person that I was in
4:03
Speaker 2: my first three businesses, to being more of a CEO,
4:06
Speaker 2: where you you own a business, you lead people, and
4:10
Speaker 2: the business is not dependent upon you.
4:12
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. No, I mean it's so important. I mean,
4:14
Speaker 1: whether you're a marketing agent or not. But I've seen
4:16
Speaker 1: this particularly because I see a lot of solorepreneurs or
4:19
Speaker 1: very intry level folks trying to get going like you said,
4:22
Speaker 1: does see and really they have. They basically just created
4:25
Speaker 1: themselves a job, and that's you know, maybe they're not
4:29
Speaker 1: working for somebody else, but you're basically you're you're you're
4:31
Speaker 1: you're a job. It's not really a business. And I
4:34
Speaker 1: think that's what you're talking about. When you create systems
4:36
Speaker 1: and processes, you're actually creating a business, and it's the
4:39
Speaker 1: one that actually is desirable from the outside of like
4:41
Speaker 1: you said, to be a choir. But if you don't
4:43
Speaker 1: have those, it's not really that desirable because if you're gone,
4:47
Speaker 1: what are you what's remaining? Right?
4:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find out really quickly if you have
4:53
Speaker 2: systems set up to where if you stop working, does
4:56
Speaker 2: work continue? Pretty simple? And then if you if you
5:02
Speaker 2: have to work, are you following a system that gives
5:05
Speaker 2: you a repeatable you know, results or outcome if you're
5:08
Speaker 2: not and everything is in your head and the first
5:10
Speaker 2: step is really just a brainstorm and get everything out
5:13
Speaker 2: of your head. But yeah, but yeah, that the idea
5:16
Speaker 2: of understanding if you have a system's issue. It is
5:19
Speaker 2: just like if you stop working, does work? Does any work?
5:22
Speaker 1: It done?
5:24
Speaker 2: Right?
5:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely you cannot and certainly yeah you can't if you
5:29
Speaker 1: need to start thinking about those developing those if you
5:32
Speaker 1: want other people to come in, whether it's a virtual system,
5:34
Speaker 1: employ it, subcontractor where do they fit within your system?
5:37
Speaker 1: And if it's not clear, yeah, it's very hard, yeah,
5:42
Speaker 1: to grow. So that's that's a great lead in really
5:44
Speaker 1: to the leverage for growth because you've actually created a
5:47
Speaker 1: whole system and a method, a framework if you will,
5:50
Speaker 1: to for success and so maybe you know, would you
5:53
Speaker 1: just go over a bit And I know there's a
5:55
Speaker 1: lot to it, but I think what I love about
5:58
Speaker 1: this framework is it's fairly straightforward. I mean, there's a
6:01
Speaker 1: lot to it sometimes you know, it's just naming these
6:04
Speaker 1: things and describing them. So just I'll let you take
6:06
Speaker 1: it over. Just walk us through your leverage for growth method.
6:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So it's evolved over the years. We're actually
6:13
Speaker 2: on version six doing it pretty much every year we
6:16
Speaker 2: figure out what's working in the market. But the core
6:19
Speaker 2: concept is pretty simple. The majority of people, let's just say,
6:25
Speaker 2: let's just say the person that's listening to this is
6:28
Speaker 2: starting from scratch. You're working the sixty hour weeks. You
6:30
Speaker 2: kind of resonate with my original story and you're like,
6:32
Speaker 2: what the heck do I do? The first step is
6:35
Speaker 2: really just to understand how you're using your time, because
6:38
Speaker 2: the relationship of you and your time gives an indication
6:42
Speaker 2: of your relationship to the business. Right, and when you
6:45
Speaker 2: wake up and you immediately check emails, that's an issue, right.
6:48
Speaker 2: So when you start to look at the analysis of time,
6:52
Speaker 2: you can do what I call it's a four parter.
6:54
Speaker 2: It's what can you eliminate that you're doing right now?
6:57
Speaker 2: What can you automate? You like data trains and just
7:00
Speaker 2: simple stuff right, And then if you can't eliminate it
7:03
Speaker 2: and automate it, can you delegate it to somebody that
7:06
Speaker 2: maybe is like a fourth of what you pay yourself, right,
7:10
Speaker 2: and then from there everything that's left over. What can
7:13
Speaker 2: you time block?
7:14
Speaker 1: Now?
7:14
Speaker 2: Time blocking just is a very intentional use of certain
7:19
Speaker 2: time in order for you to minimize what's called task switching.
7:23
Speaker 2: So if you ever get at the end of a
7:24
Speaker 2: day and you're like, oh, I'm just so exhausted, right,
7:27
Speaker 2: it's decision fatigue because you're just going back and forth
7:30
Speaker 2: between different things. An example of task switching might be
7:33
Speaker 2: that you're working on a website, right, and then you
7:35
Speaker 2: immediately go into a sales call, and then right afterwards
7:39
Speaker 2: then you're in a leadership meeting. Right that it's a
7:41
Speaker 2: horrible noth don't do that. So the main goal with
7:48
Speaker 2: the first step, which is based around time, is to
7:51
Speaker 2: start freeing up time and carving out time to work
7:54
Speaker 2: on the business. And if you can, if you can
7:57
Speaker 2: use the Pareto principle of eighty twenty, so if you're
7:59
Speaker 2: working forty hours and you carve out eight hours per day,
8:04
Speaker 2: eight hours per day, eight hours per week to work
8:07
Speaker 2: on the business, then that's like the first kind of milestone.
8:11
Speaker 2: But let's just say, David, you're the guy that's trying
8:13
Speaker 2: to free up time. Right now, let's say you can't
8:16
Speaker 2: get to the eight hours. You can only find two, right.
8:19
Speaker 2: The next question is what do you do with those two?
8:21
Speaker 2: So you go into step number two, where you just
8:23
Speaker 2: get everything out of your head. You gotta understand what
8:28
Speaker 2: you're doing right now and be able to capture it
8:30
Speaker 2: document it right in the way. Beginning, it's like ugly,
8:33
Speaker 2: it's just like this big brain dump of like I'm
8:36
Speaker 2: doing all these things right, But no matter what, you
8:39
Speaker 2: got to get it all out, and from there you
8:41
Speaker 2: start to document the things that you're doing, the processes,
8:45
Speaker 2: how work gets done, and naturally, even before you start hiring,
8:50
Speaker 2: you can start following your own system. So what used
8:52
Speaker 2: to be two hours worth of work, when you follow
8:55
Speaker 2: your own system that you just built, that two hours
8:59
Speaker 2: now becomes an hour and a half or an hour, right,
9:02
Speaker 2: And then that time that you just freed up gets
9:04
Speaker 2: moved over to working on the business work, right, So
9:07
Speaker 2: then you now have three hours the next week. Just
9:09
Speaker 2: keep on doing that over and over and over and
9:11
Speaker 2: over and over again until you get to a certain
9:14
Speaker 2: point where everything, at least the main parts of what
9:18
Speaker 2: you're doing is documented and naturally you'll hit that eight
9:22
Speaker 2: hours and then you'll also build systems. Now there are
9:25
Speaker 2: more pieces. But is there anything David that you want.
9:28
Speaker 1: To Yeah, no, I want to. It reminds me of
9:32
Speaker 1: a book I read years ago called Getting Things Done
9:34
Speaker 1: by Dave Allen. But this idea of breaking things down
9:36
Speaker 1: I think is really important. I don't think a lot
9:38
Speaker 1: of people honestly account for their time. Like you said,
9:41
Speaker 1: reclaim your time to look at it, and you know,
9:46
Speaker 1: I like to say, well, what is on your calendar
9:49
Speaker 1: or not on your calendar that you're doing, Like I
9:50
Speaker 1: think sometimes people just don't account for it and like
9:52
Speaker 1: they don't realize how much time it actually takes and
9:56
Speaker 1: counting the cost. So I really think what you're saying is,
9:58
Speaker 1: look at all this get clear and at first it
10:01
Speaker 1: is kind of muddy and messy, and you're doing all
10:04
Speaker 1: these things, and I think this is I would say,
10:08
Speaker 1: it's not a one and done right, this is something
10:09
Speaker 1: you continually look at and you're evaluating.
10:12
Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, Yeah, the use of time. It should switch
10:17
Speaker 2: because if you think about if anybody is a fan
10:20
Speaker 2: of psychology, the more aware and more intentional that you
10:23
Speaker 2: become about something, the more things are going to start changing.
10:26
Speaker 2: There's like a framework called OCTAR. It's an awareness, knowledge, desire,
10:32
Speaker 2: action results, right, and the first step towards any change
10:36
Speaker 2: is based around awareness. So the natural process of actually
10:39
Speaker 2: doing a time log, and one thing I should preface
10:43
Speaker 2: is the fact that it should be for both personal
10:45
Speaker 2: and professional. So it should include things like your sleep,
10:48
Speaker 2: your morning routines or nighttime routines, when you're beginning and
10:52
Speaker 2: ending work or is there a beginning and end right?
10:55
Speaker 2: And what will naturally happen is that as you become
10:58
Speaker 2: more aware of it, it'll starts naturally going oh, I
11:01
Speaker 2: probably should move this over here, or I should do X,
11:04
Speaker 2: Y and z. So the use of time the first
11:06
Speaker 2: time you do it is going to shift. The time
11:08
Speaker 2: that you build systems is going to shift again. So
11:11
Speaker 2: this process is it's cyclical. You have to go through
11:14
Speaker 2: it a quite a few times.
11:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, well I like that too. I mean I've
11:18
Speaker 1: talked about this on my other podcast and tells Une
11:21
Speaker 1: Leadership podcast. You and I use a system called the
11:24
Speaker 1: core four or foundational understanding. What is your and I
11:27
Speaker 1: even have my full focus planner here Another tool like
11:30
Speaker 1: what is your startup routines, what's your end of the
11:32
Speaker 1: day of routines. I think those are things that evolve
11:34
Speaker 1: and you have to tweak it and figure out what
11:35
Speaker 1: works best for you. Because sometimes I think Jesse speak
11:39
Speaker 1: to this too, because sometimes we look at other people
11:41
Speaker 1: think well, well they do it this way or that way.
11:43
Speaker 1: It's like, well, it may work for them, but it
11:45
Speaker 1: may not work for you. So don't just apply to
11:47
Speaker 1: somebody else's system. You have to test and see what
11:50
Speaker 1: works for you and what's going on in your life.
11:53
Speaker 1: Like you said, personally and professionally, it's not just one
11:56
Speaker 1: of the other domains.
11:58
Speaker 2: And one thing that is though, there are scientific things
12:03
Speaker 2: that are telling you how to handle a morning and
12:05
Speaker 2: how to handle a nighttime, things like the blue lights
12:08
Speaker 2: and blue lights. And then in the way beginning with
12:12
Speaker 2: Core four, I think one of the essence and the
12:14
Speaker 2: innate kind of like principles behind it is that you're
12:19
Speaker 2: giving to yourself before you're giving to others, and you
12:22
Speaker 2: kind of fill up your cup in order for you
12:24
Speaker 2: to fill up others. And I think those very simple
12:27
Speaker 2: things like where you wake up and immediately if you
12:29
Speaker 2: go into the news or social media or checking emails,
12:33
Speaker 2: you're immediately, just giving all the energy you just built
12:36
Speaker 2: from sleep giving it to something else. So we could
12:39
Speaker 2: probably talk for another Yeah, we could go out and
12:41
Speaker 2: it's just on time and morning routines.
12:44
Speaker 1: But let's go through the growth method. So you talked about,
12:47
Speaker 1: you know, reclaiming time, kind of simplifying some things, breaking
12:50
Speaker 1: it down. Go on, keep taking us through the rest
12:53
Speaker 1: of this framework.
12:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so step number one free up your time. If
12:57
Speaker 2: you can hit the goal of eight to ten hours
13:00
Speaker 2: a week to work on the business, and that's not
13:02
Speaker 2: additional time, it's time that you freed up. Then you
13:05
Speaker 2: start moving that into step number two, which is based
13:07
Speaker 2: around building those scalable systems, getting everything out of your
13:09
Speaker 2: head and your team's head, and just system procedures. Now,
13:13
Speaker 2: depending on the size of the team, I'll just do
13:16
Speaker 2: one little tidbit with this as well, depending on the
13:18
Speaker 2: size of the team. If you're working with a larger team,
13:21
Speaker 2: you can do a thing called value stream mapping, where
13:23
Speaker 2: you actually get the team to crowdsource all the information.
13:27
Speaker 2: That works really well with teams. If you're more of
13:29
Speaker 2: like a solopreneur, it's really just a brain dump and
13:31
Speaker 2: then you're reorganizing it. One key tip. It's probably found
13:36
Speaker 2: in my book there you go.
13:38
Speaker 1: Which link to that.
13:40
Speaker 2: By the way, Yeah, anybody that wants a free copy
13:43
Speaker 2: of the book, I'll give them look at that.
13:46
Speaker 1: So you're listening, you're getting value, all all sorts of
13:48
Speaker 1: value here on the.
13:51
Speaker 2: There's a very specific strategy of building systems in there,
13:54
Speaker 2: and it's this inside out approach. Everybody else is telling
13:58
Speaker 2: you to build sales systems and marketing system and then
14:00
Speaker 2: if fulfillment is third or fourth on the list, it
14:04
Speaker 2: actually is the opposite. It needs to be based around
14:06
Speaker 2: fulfillment first, then marketing, then sales. And the reason being
14:10
Speaker 2: is that when you are confident in delivery, it shows
14:14
Speaker 2: up in the confidence in sales calls. When you're confident
14:17
Speaker 2: and fulfillment, you can rest assured that people are empowered,
14:20
Speaker 2: which is one of the steps we'll get into step
14:23
Speaker 2: number one, freeing up the time. Step number two, build
14:26
Speaker 2: the systems. When you build the systems, it sets up
14:28
Speaker 2: for step number three, which is really based around the offer.
14:32
Speaker 2: Because if you build systems, and right now your offer
14:35
Speaker 2: is based around effort. So I'm going to charge one
14:38
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty dollars per hour for ten hours of
14:41
Speaker 2: work right. What happens with the systems is that you
14:44
Speaker 2: used to charge for ten hours, but now you can
14:47
Speaker 2: do the same work for four hours, right, and immediately
14:50
Speaker 2: you go, okay, I need to switch the model. So
14:53
Speaker 2: step number three is where you look at a value
14:56
Speaker 2: based offer. Now, I'm not talking about a Hermosa offer
14:59
Speaker 2: that's ears this and like a million different freaking things ever,
15:03
Speaker 2: which confuses everybody and sounds crappy. It's actually just a
15:07
Speaker 2: very effective, simple, clear, valued based offer and it's got
15:13
Speaker 2: to be priced according to value for your ideal clients. Now,
15:16
Speaker 2: when you build systems, you'll start figuring out what is valuable,
15:19
Speaker 2: what's not valuable. And one of the greatest things we
15:22
Speaker 2: have clients do is what's called why did you purchase interview,
15:24
Speaker 2: another thing inside of the book where you actually ask
15:28
Speaker 2: the questions to the clients. What was life like before
15:31
Speaker 2: working together, what was the decision making process, what made
15:34
Speaker 2: you decide to work together? What results have you gotten?
15:37
Speaker 2: And they'll tell you what is most valuable. When you
15:40
Speaker 2: price according to that, you're automatically starting to figure out
15:43
Speaker 2: product market fit. Now, could I can go into the
15:47
Speaker 2: other two steps, but is there anything that you want
15:49
Speaker 2: to touch on that.
15:51
Speaker 1: That's you know, it's an interesting you know, you're flipping
15:54
Speaker 1: it on its head. But I think of like, could
15:56
Speaker 1: you go I think produced or whatever whatever you think
16:00
Speaker 1: the end product is you do you have confidence in
16:03
Speaker 1: your ability? That's what I hear you're saying, to produce
16:05
Speaker 1: and put that out there. Now, maybe I think sometimes
16:08
Speaker 1: you know, if it's you have to find out is
16:10
Speaker 1: there a market for what you bil? I think that's
16:11
Speaker 1: what sometimes people do too, is maybe that's what they're
16:13
Speaker 1: saying is in the marketing and selling, but you have
16:15
Speaker 1: to figure out do I have a solution that people
16:18
Speaker 1: really want? Or am I building a solution in the silo?
16:22
Speaker 1: And then I think that's maybe what happens is Jesse
16:24
Speaker 1: is like, you've got to get when they say doing
16:26
Speaker 1: the marketing of sales or trying to see is their interest?
16:28
Speaker 1: So you have to kind of know that and then yes,
16:31
Speaker 1: build on the production. But I feel I agree with you.
16:32
Speaker 1: If there's are not confidence that you feel that you
16:35
Speaker 1: can fulfill, then yeah, you're gonna have a difficulty selling
16:38
Speaker 1: it because you're like, I don't know if I'm actually
16:40
Speaker 1: going to be able to make it, make me know, satisfy,
16:45
Speaker 1: meet my and hopefully exceed my client's expectations.
16:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to preface it real quick. The strategies
16:53
Speaker 2: that I'm teaching and I'm talking about are for people
16:55
Speaker 2: that have gone through what's called a proof of concept.
16:58
Speaker 2: So the proof of concept is where you have five
17:00
Speaker 2: paying clients for a service, a very specific service, and
17:02
Speaker 2: you've delivered results where you're getting case studies and testimonials.
17:06
Speaker 2: That's part of the reason why any of the agency
17:07
Speaker 2: owners that read my book and they get excited, they're like,
17:11
Speaker 2: sweet Jesse as a coach, she sounds cool, I am,
17:14
Speaker 2: But if there were before the five paying clients, I'm like,
17:17
Speaker 2: it's not going to work. You have to go through
17:20
Speaker 2: that process. And the reason being is that when you
17:23
Speaker 2: build systems, you want to you don't want to build
17:25
Speaker 2: them prematurely, and you don't want to actually even niche
17:28
Speaker 2: down until you've gone through a process of kind of
17:31
Speaker 2: figuring it out. Very similar to what I was saying
17:34
Speaker 2: with Niche Controls. Founding, I worked with a B two
17:37
Speaker 2: C SaaS company. I worked with a copywriting company. I
17:41
Speaker 2: worked with a couple of different companies until I found
17:44
Speaker 2: in the agency world. So I wanted to preface that
17:47
Speaker 2: because I know sometimes people think that there's a one
17:50
Speaker 2: size fits all. There's not. It's just you got to
17:52
Speaker 2: get past that proof of content.
17:54
Speaker 1: No, that's that's great, Jesse, and I think that's important,
17:56
Speaker 1: important for our audience to hear. So all right, keep going,
17:58
Speaker 1: let's hear the rest of the rest to this framework.
18:01
Speaker 1: COO cool.
18:01
Speaker 2: So if you think about step number three, you've figured
18:04
Speaker 2: out what you're offering to the market based around value,
18:08
Speaker 2: and now you've got to bring it to the market.
18:10
Speaker 2: And step number four is where you fill the pipeline. Now,
18:13
Speaker 2: the majority of people will focus on a lot of
18:16
Speaker 2: times they're heavily relying around referrals or their network, right,
18:20
Speaker 2: and referrals kind of have this ebb and flow if
18:22
Speaker 2: you look at the graph of some months they come in,
18:24
Speaker 2: some months they don't, but they're not really like something
18:28
Speaker 2: to rely upon unless you do what's called an active
18:32
Speaker 2: referral system. But that's one of three client attraction systems.
18:36
Speaker 2: You have a referral system, an outbound system, and inbound system,
18:40
Speaker 2: and you build them with a referral system being first,
18:43
Speaker 2: where you do those why did you purchase interviews and
18:46
Speaker 2: you make it to where it's not so passive, it's
18:48
Speaker 2: actually more active. And then from there, naturally, from those
18:52
Speaker 2: referrals and those client interviews, you're going to start figuring
18:56
Speaker 2: out that they're starting to use certain words to describe things.
19:00
Speaker 1: Right.
19:01
Speaker 2: I did this with my client Susan and Warren and
19:04
Speaker 2: a bunch of other clients, where they started saying spinning wheels,
19:07
Speaker 2: spinning the wheels. They just kept on saying it over
19:09
Speaker 2: and over again. I was like, hmmm, I put it
19:11
Speaker 2: in an outbound campaign. Are you feeling like you're spinning
19:13
Speaker 2: your wheels? I get more? Susan's right, So yes, the
19:18
Speaker 2: setup of a client traction system is to use all
19:21
Speaker 2: three of those to create what's called an exponential demand.
19:25
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
19:26
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? And what you I think so important what
19:29
Speaker 1: you said paying attention to those words, because I feel like,
19:31
Speaker 1: you know, you've experienced incoperating other things. Sometimes it's just
19:34
Speaker 1: getting those right words dialed into like it hits the ear, like,
19:37
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that makes it. It is. It's speaking to me,
19:40
Speaker 1: but you could use something else it doesn't, and it
19:43
Speaker 1: just like it just goes right, like they didn't hear
19:45
Speaker 1: it all and it's like I just got to get
19:46
Speaker 1: the right message. In there. You know.
19:49
Speaker 2: The crazy thing is none of this stuff is going
19:52
Speaker 2: to be able to be captured correctly by AI. So
19:57
Speaker 2: a lot of people right now are rushing towards this AI.
20:01
Speaker 2: You know revolution, AI is going to solve fucking everything.
20:04
Speaker 2: And it's not so like AI is never ever, ever
20:10
Speaker 2: and I use it a lot, but has never said
20:12
Speaker 2: something that my clients have actually said, spinning your wheels,
20:15
Speaker 2: reinventing the wheel. They don't say that right unless I
20:18
Speaker 2: actually give them the give it a testimonium, so that
20:21
Speaker 2: those right words actually just show that you're an insider,
20:24
Speaker 2: but you get the inside glimpse into their whole world.
20:28
Speaker 2: And when you do those interviews, and you do it
20:30
Speaker 2: and what's called an informational interview where you ask a
20:34
Speaker 2: very structured question and then you just let them talk.
20:38
Speaker 2: As opposed to it being like something you're just like
20:40
Speaker 2: trying to like push forward or whatever. That informational interview
20:43
Speaker 2: allows you to gather that information and it's all the
20:47
Speaker 2: stuff that's like, it's like just so worth every goal.
20:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're just minded forul gold there. That's that's awesome, Jesse.
20:55
Speaker 1: And that is a very special system and specific way.
20:58
Speaker 1: And so some people I feel resistant to that because
21:01
Speaker 1: like I want to be organic or whatever, but I
21:04
Speaker 1: find that it actually gives you some more freedom in
21:06
Speaker 1: doing this. I was resistant, even Jesse like having like
21:09
Speaker 1: a sales script, like I don't want to be hivy like,
21:12
Speaker 1: but it's not a bad thing. It's actually giving you
21:14
Speaker 1: some structure I feel in helping you focus and making
21:19
Speaker 1: it more meaningful. You're so, I mean, listen to Jesse
21:22
Speaker 1: what he's saying. This is time tested goal that you're
21:25
Speaker 1: listen hearing.
21:27
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, and even the sales script piece. Yeah, if
21:32
Speaker 2: you get to a place where the systems are too rigid,
21:35
Speaker 2: so you build systems and I have one more step
21:37
Speaker 2: I'll get into and in just a seconds, but with filling
21:40
Speaker 2: your pipeline and really like just looking at systems in general,
21:44
Speaker 2: take a salescript for an example. If things become too
21:48
Speaker 2: rigid where you feel robotic asking questions, right, then go
21:53
Speaker 2: a step higher and allow there to be a framework.
21:56
Speaker 2: So you're moving people through a series of things, and
21:59
Speaker 2: maybe questions are optional, but these are different questions that
22:02
Speaker 2: allow you to get them into that frame, right, So
22:06
Speaker 2: systems don't have to be as rigid as what people
22:09
Speaker 2: think and a lot of the kind of like counterintuitive
22:12
Speaker 2: teachings that I teach agencies is that a lot of
22:15
Speaker 2: times agencies think that they have to be fully customizable,
22:19
Speaker 2: you know, personalized and reinventing the whale all the time,
22:21
Speaker 2: or completely productized. And what I tell them is, seventy
22:25
Speaker 2: five percent of what you do for every client is
22:27
Speaker 2: always the same. You might think it's different, it's it's
22:30
Speaker 2: exactly the same. The other twenty five percent is customs.
22:32
Speaker 2: A client. If you can build systems around the seventy
22:34
Speaker 2: five so you can focus on the twenty five, everything.
22:37
Speaker 1: Works, Yeah, ye powerful, powerful, all right, hit us with
22:43
Speaker 1: your with your last hit. All right.
22:47
Speaker 2: This is ereak out because I know I go on
22:49
Speaker 2: ram tangents sep. Number one, carve out eight ten hours
22:52
Speaker 2: to work on the business. Use that time and step
22:54
Speaker 2: number two to build the systems. When you're building the systems, naturally,
22:57
Speaker 2: you figure out what your offer is, make sure that
22:59
Speaker 2: you're pricing it according to value and your ideal client,
23:02
Speaker 2: and you've got to bring it to the market by
23:03
Speaker 2: filling up your pipeline. That leads towards step number five,
23:06
Speaker 2: which is David's favorite, empower your people. This is where
23:14
Speaker 2: you build the people systems in order for you to
23:17
Speaker 2: hire the right people, train them effectively, and manage a
23:20
Speaker 2: growing team so you can focus on growth or taking
23:23
Speaker 2: time away for yourself. And naturally, what happens when you
23:27
Speaker 2: step into that role, if you've built it correctly, is
23:31
Speaker 2: that the people that you hire get placed into a
23:33
Speaker 2: container for them to win. That the systems give them
23:38
Speaker 2: an environment to win, the training gives them environment to win,
23:41
Speaker 2: and then when you're managing it, those systems become just measurable.
23:45
Speaker 2: You can measure it, which allows you to lead and
23:48
Speaker 2: focus more on vision. Right. So I know that was
23:52
Speaker 2: speaking to the core of David leadership and.
23:56
Speaker 1: No, I mean it's so important, Jessee, because that's why
23:59
Speaker 1: I love having you on your because you know, I
24:01
Speaker 1: know the value of systems and the frameworks and having
24:04
Speaker 1: somebody like you Jesse on the podcast. Why why we
24:07
Speaker 1: have the Business Driving podcasts is though we have our
24:09
Speaker 1: listeners to get to hear an interat Interact, they may
24:11
Speaker 1: have never heard of you, Jesse or Nicheng Control like,
24:13
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, this Jesse gets it. He can help
24:16
Speaker 1: me and you can go much faster than you can
24:18
Speaker 1: on your own, spinning your wheels in your words of
24:21
Speaker 1: trying to do this and saying, look, no, let me
24:24
Speaker 1: have somebody like Jesse come along inside you help you
24:26
Speaker 1: get that up and running. And you know, and the
24:28
Speaker 1: same thing with me. It's like getting your people in alignment,
24:31
Speaker 1: because I see a lot of business owners struggle with Jesse.
24:33
Speaker 1: They really want their team to step up, but they're like,
24:35
Speaker 1: what do I step up into? I'm not there's not clear.
24:38
Speaker 1: It's not clear to me how to win. And so
24:40
Speaker 1: you've just broken, you know, broke into these five pillars
24:43
Speaker 1: here how to do it at a high level, and
24:45
Speaker 1: there's obviously more details here, but you know, coming alongside
24:50
Speaker 1: and finding out what's working, what's not working, how to adjust.
24:53
Speaker 1: That's the power of hiring somebody like Jesse here with
24:56
Speaker 1: Nicheng Control. So these are these are these are great
25:00
Speaker 1: to hear Jesse, And you know, I think, you know,
25:03
Speaker 1: helping businesses. Now you get to this foundation and then
25:07
Speaker 1: move and actually then scale, right, So you've got to
25:09
Speaker 1: get this before you're still you're building your foundation that
25:12
Speaker 1: you can actually scale up off of if you're off of.
25:15
Speaker 1: But you can't do that if you have you know,
25:17
Speaker 1: if it's if you have a poor foundation.
25:21
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
25:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
25:22
Speaker 2: And one thing I would love to give to your
25:24
Speaker 2: audience is just a quick lit miss test. So regardless
25:27
Speaker 2: of whether or not you're an agency owner or not,
25:29
Speaker 2: doesn't doesn't matter. I want to give you a lot
25:30
Speaker 2: of value. So if you think about the journey of
25:33
Speaker 2: every single founder, So if you are a founder and
25:37
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur and you don't want to own a job,
25:40
Speaker 2: you're going to go through five main stages, not five
25:43
Speaker 2: man transformations within the leverage for growth, but five million
25:46
Speaker 2: stages of your own journey, going from the doer or
25:49
Speaker 2: the subject matter expert all the way to a visionary.
25:51
Speaker 2: So you go from a doer to a trainer. Okay,
25:54
Speaker 2: in order for you to do that, you have to
25:56
Speaker 2: do two things. You have to build operational systems like
25:59
Speaker 2: I was saying before, and also training systems. Training systems
26:02
Speaker 2: is basically taking the operational systems and making a position specific.
26:07
Speaker 2: Does that make sense so far?
26:08
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, following you all right, So you.
26:11
Speaker 2: Go from doer to trainer. Once you go from trainer
26:14
Speaker 2: to the next step, which is management or manager right
26:18
Speaker 2: in In order for you to do that, you build enough
26:19
Speaker 2: training and operational systems. Now, you've got to get into
26:22
Speaker 2: management systems. And as you're building management system like how
26:26
Speaker 2: do you manage the work that's being done and how
26:28
Speaker 2: do you do that without asking people questions all the time?
26:31
Speaker 1: Did you do this? Did you do this? Do you
26:32
Speaker 1: do this right?
26:33
Speaker 2: And then from there you go from manager to leader.
26:37
Speaker 2: In order for you to do that, you have to
26:39
Speaker 2: build leadership systems. It's all that kind of like where's
26:42
Speaker 2: the business going right? And how can we make sure
26:46
Speaker 2: that those managers understand the direction that we're taking them right?
26:51
Speaker 2: And then from there you go from leadership into visionary,
26:53
Speaker 2: which is all based around understanding like where am I
26:56
Speaker 2: going to go in the next five ten years? So,
26:58
Speaker 2: if you think about it, you build you go from
27:01
Speaker 2: doer to trainer to manager to leader to visionary. And
27:06
Speaker 2: in order for you to do that, you just you
27:07
Speaker 2: realize wherever you are, do you feel like you're the
27:09
Speaker 2: doer right now?
27:10
Speaker 1: Okay?
27:10
Speaker 2: What do you need to do? Training systems, operational systems.
27:13
Speaker 2: If you feel like the manager? Okay, you got to
27:15
Speaker 2: figure out management systems right and then have somebody else
27:18
Speaker 2: play in that role. Right. So that should be a
27:21
Speaker 2: good litmus testify. That's a great litmus test, you know.
27:24
Speaker 1: I literally I was just talking to a client right
27:27
Speaker 1: before we record the podcast Jesse about that where they're
27:31
Speaker 1: in the in the doer kind of management phase. And
27:34
Speaker 1: then this person's a patirly high level person and I'm like,
27:36
Speaker 1: you're totally being underutilized here. You should definitely be a
27:40
Speaker 1: manager and moving into the leadership phase. But the company
27:42
Speaker 1: hasn't seen that, or it hasn't been intentional about it, Jesse.
27:46
Speaker 1: And so what happens is I keep people in certain
27:48
Speaker 1: roles and the company is basically you can't scale. Then
27:51
Speaker 1: you're just flat. That's what I've seen, and it's like, okay.
27:54
Speaker 1: And for me personally, that move between manager and leader,
27:58
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't really at first. I thought they
28:00
Speaker 1: were one of the same, and I realized, no, no, these
28:02
Speaker 1: are two different things. And I realized there's no way
28:06
Speaker 1: I can I don't number one manage well, and then
28:09
Speaker 1: I have to learn how to lead. I can't get
28:10
Speaker 1: people to follow me. And then, like you said, go
28:12
Speaker 1: to that visionary place. And so but what I think
28:16
Speaker 1: is interesting is it's challenging as business owners because we're
28:20
Speaker 1: moving from the known to the unknown, and that is
28:23
Speaker 1: sometimes intimidating. It's it's like I've never done this before,
28:27
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, well all of us this is
28:29
Speaker 1: all new, but that the successful ones are willing to
28:32
Speaker 1: step in there, but not blindly alone. They're looking for
28:35
Speaker 1: help along the way. But you have to be willing
28:38
Speaker 1: to step beyond the known and maybe the bottleneck if
28:41
Speaker 1: you find yourself right. And I've seen you live this out, Jesse.
28:45
Speaker 1: I've seen you step repeatedly, repeatedly like okay, we'll try
28:48
Speaker 1: this thing new, this is thing new, because you're like,
28:51
Speaker 1: this is how we grow.
28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be my high quick start.
28:58
Speaker 1: I guess, feel fast. I mean, like you said, I mean, hey,
29:01
Speaker 1: that didn't work, all right, Well learn from that, I adjudged.
29:05
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen, quite honestly, for those that you know,
29:09
Speaker 1: I've seen Jesse, you literally have shared some amazing insights
29:14
Speaker 1: because we've known each other for a long time and
29:16
Speaker 1: and just I've seen him lived us out. So those
29:19
Speaker 1: are listening or wondering, I mean, Jesse has lived us out.
29:22
Speaker 1: He has you know, had highs and lows, and but
29:25
Speaker 1: he sees the vision of where he's going. And I
29:28
Speaker 1: love that commitment and integrity. Jesse and what you bring
29:32
Speaker 1: to just you personally, but also Michigan control and the
29:36
Speaker 1: way you serve your clients.
29:38
Speaker 2: Thank you man. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I was thinking
29:43
Speaker 2: back because I knew I was going to be on this,
29:45
Speaker 2: and you know, we worked together and Mastermind together really
29:49
Speaker 2: heavily in twenty twenty or two and then twenty twenty three.
29:53
Speaker 2: And during that time it was interesting because I was
29:55
Speaker 2: transitioning out of the one on one coaching, which is
29:58
Speaker 2: like Jesse in a job, and then towards more of
30:03
Speaker 2: a group coaching kind of Mastermind model. And it was
30:07
Speaker 2: interesting because I had a vision and a dream of
30:10
Speaker 2: impacting a million entrepreneurs and I couldn't shake it. And
30:16
Speaker 2: I don't know what people believe that are watching this,
30:19
Speaker 2: but I believe that God called me to do something
30:21
Speaker 2: much bigger than what I was doing. And am I
30:24
Speaker 2: serving just the fifteen coaching clients one on one? Or
30:27
Speaker 2: am I doing that's much bigger kind of thing? And
30:31
Speaker 2: that's how I got called into a vision that led
30:34
Speaker 2: towards writing a book, doing a two seventy five podcasts
30:40
Speaker 2: look at You pro getting it all out there, and
30:45
Speaker 2: then switching my whole model to be able to serve
30:47
Speaker 2: people in a really, really deep way. And I think
30:50
Speaker 2: that people that are kind of in that middle part
30:52
Speaker 2: where they're trying to go from management to leadership, you
30:56
Speaker 2: need space. So you can't get to leadership and understanding
31:00
Speaker 2: direction of things when you're just busy all the time.
31:03
Speaker 2: And you can't actually even get into visionary if you're
31:06
Speaker 2: just busy all the time, right, And so sometimes what
31:09
Speaker 2: you need to do is you just need to step
31:11
Speaker 2: back from everything else that's going on and then just
31:14
Speaker 2: go where do I want to be in five, ten,
31:16
Speaker 2: twenty years, you know? And if that's really hard, where
31:19
Speaker 2: do you want to want to be in a year
31:20
Speaker 2: from now? If no other thing was holding me back?
31:24
Speaker 2: And once you start figuring that out, it'll start pulling
31:27
Speaker 2: on you. And then randomly you might have a dream
31:30
Speaker 2: just like me, and then all of a sudden you're like,
31:31
Speaker 2: I can't shake it. I got to impact a million people,
31:34
Speaker 2: Like it's fundamentally changing everything that I'm doing right.
31:38
Speaker 1: Now, Like you know absolutely well, I mean, you see
31:43
Speaker 1: the possibility. That's what I love about you, Jesse. You
31:46
Speaker 1: see this, and I think I I know for me,
31:50
Speaker 1: I had a scarcity or negative mindset for many years
31:55
Speaker 1: and I had there's a switch turn, and I had
31:58
Speaker 1: this abundant mindset and this way of things of that
32:00
Speaker 1: goddess for me, there's so much better. I I definitely
32:03
Speaker 1: recognize my dreams and visions are I played small. Sometimes
32:08
Speaker 1: I played not to lose instead of playing to win.
32:11
Speaker 1: And to your point, though, I think a lot of
32:13
Speaker 1: people live I can't remember who said this, but this quote.
32:17
Speaker 1: Live lives are quiet desperation. They're they're alone, they don't
32:20
Speaker 1: feel connected, and they're not living in their true purpose
32:22
Speaker 1: and they're calling because they're kind of just settling. And
32:25
Speaker 1: I think you know you and I definitely feel strongly
32:27
Speaker 1: that there's we're called to serve. There's much more for
32:30
Speaker 1: us to do, and I want that for everybody. I
32:35
Speaker 1: know you do. You do as well. Just so that's
32:37
Speaker 1: why I have you on the podcast, because again, you
32:39
Speaker 1: lead from what you live. You are a person of integrity,
32:43
Speaker 1: the person is really you know, showing what it means
32:48
Speaker 1: to go after this and you know it made me.
32:51
Speaker 1: You know, ideally you're going to meet a million or more,
32:54
Speaker 1: you know, but it's it's the race. It's where we're
32:56
Speaker 1: called to go. And everybody's on their own journey. So
32:58
Speaker 1: you don't have to compare yourself to Jesse or or
33:00
Speaker 1: me or anybody else. But it's just important that you
33:02
Speaker 1: go and you hear some tools and resources so that
33:05
Speaker 1: you're not alone and you can you can learn more
33:08
Speaker 1: and check out Jesse's book here, you know.
33:11
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm like, you got to do the three cells
33:14
Speaker 2: in here.
33:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and again, I mean if you're you're specialist
33:20
Speaker 1: obviously with marketing marketing agency owners, but I think you
33:22
Speaker 1: like this is an applicable whether you're a marketing agency
33:25
Speaker 1: or not. I mean, you even have not just your book, Jesse,
33:28
Speaker 1: I know, follow Auto. I know you've done some masterminds
33:30
Speaker 1: and some other great opportunities. So you know, if you're
33:33
Speaker 1: not on a mailing list or following on LinkedIn or
33:36
Speaker 1: you know, social media, we're going to provide all that
33:40
Speaker 1: for our listeners Jesse, so that they can connect and
33:43
Speaker 1: follow up with you. But as we're getting closer, we're
33:45
Speaker 1: a kind of wrapping up the podcast for today and
33:46
Speaker 1: we're going to have you back because I kind of
33:48
Speaker 1: have much more conversations and round table. You know, what
33:51
Speaker 1: would you just say, you know, as as as your
33:54
Speaker 1: your reminder or just key takeaway that you'd want others
33:58
Speaker 1: to to cons or here that might be feeling stuck,
34:02
Speaker 1: you know, not not wanting to start, you know, what
34:04
Speaker 1: to do? What would.
34:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say if you're an entrepreneur listening to this,
34:13
Speaker 2: I have a very special message for you, And then
34:15
Speaker 2: those that are not entrepreneurs, there's another message entrepreneurs. If
34:19
Speaker 2: you are a feeling as though you're owning a job,
34:22
Speaker 2: there's a very specific process, of proven process that you
34:25
Speaker 2: just follow that allows you to get out of that
34:30
Speaker 2: job that you've created into owning a business. And that's
34:33
Speaker 2: what we've talked about here. I would recommend rewatching this
34:37
Speaker 2: numerous times. You can reach out to me on LinkedIn.
34:39
Speaker 2: You can ask me questions just like, Hey, I was
34:42
Speaker 2: I saw the podcast that you and David were talking about.
34:45
Speaker 2: This really resonated. I can give you more resources. I
34:48
Speaker 2: am more than happy and called to help you. So
34:51
Speaker 2: that's the entrepreneurial side For those that are not entrepreneurs,
34:55
Speaker 2: but you might be in that management layer and you're
34:57
Speaker 2: trying to get into the leadership layer that me and
35:00
Speaker 2: David are talking about, the best way for you to
35:03
Speaker 2: get out of management is just to realize that management
35:06
Speaker 2: is like one big routine. You're like, you're running the
35:09
Speaker 2: management right you know, or for you to get into leadership,
35:12
Speaker 2: you have to start actually understanding how to lead yourself,
35:16
Speaker 2: and that you start by understanding where you are currently
35:19
Speaker 2: and where you need to want to go, and then
35:22
Speaker 2: what do you need to become who do you need
35:24
Speaker 2: to become in order for you to start bridging that gap.
35:27
Speaker 2: And when you start making those changes, it is palatable
35:31
Speaker 2: to the people that are following you. They can notice
35:34
Speaker 2: a difference when you start shifting and when you start
35:37
Speaker 2: to lead. It might not be within the same company.
35:41
Speaker 2: I know that, Like you know, that's an interesting kind
35:43
Speaker 2: of like concept. Oh, I want to grow within a company.
35:46
Speaker 2: Sometimes your leadership gets you get pulled into something that's
35:49
Speaker 2: a little bit different than maybe what you're used to.
35:52
Speaker 2: And you're if the job that you're working in right now,
35:56
Speaker 2: that's not going to allow you to go from management
35:58
Speaker 2: to leader. You become the or internally and then you
36:01
Speaker 2: get recruited. Right all the leaders are called there's a
36:06
Speaker 2: reason why you're being called the leadership and if it's
36:09
Speaker 2: too much, if leadership is like something that's conceptual but
36:13
Speaker 2: you're not willing to do the work you're not meant
36:15
Speaker 2: to lead. Yeah, so that's that's well.
36:19
Speaker 1: Thank you Jesse, great words, great words. Thank you guys
36:22
Speaker 1: for listening in checking it out again. We're gonna have
36:25
Speaker 1: all of the links for Jesse. We and I are
36:27
Speaker 1: connected on LinkedIn, so if you guys are thinking with me,
36:29
Speaker 1: you can find Jesse there again. He puts great content out.
36:32
Speaker 1: Thank you for being a resource writing the book. You know,
36:35
Speaker 1: Jesse's a it's a pleasure having you here. Thank you
36:38
Speaker 1: so much for joining us.
36:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, David. I appreciate it all right.
36:41
Speaker 1: Everybody, of course, light subscribe, leave your comments. We'll make
36:44
Speaker 1: sure Jesse and I will respond to them. Again, thanks
36:47
Speaker 1: for being a part of the Business Round of People podcast.
36:49
Speaker 1: Until next time, be well everybody,