Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Be Curious About Your Body with Dr. Gina Hahn

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Be Curious About Your Body with Dr. Gina Hahn · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Mystic Nerd Squad podcast.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Kelly Meyerson, and I'm joined today by Dr.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Gina Hahn, physical therapist.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: And before we get started, I'm just gonna read her wonderful bio so you know a little bit more about her.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Dr.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Gina Hahn, DPTRKC, is an expert pelvic floor physical therapist.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: She chose the pelvic floor as a specialty during her first pregnancy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: She realized the need for and value of this specialization as she moved through an averse event and came out stronger on the other side.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Gina empowers clients and helps them feel fully seen and heard, moving seamlessly from healthcare provider to coach to integrate and address the mind, body, soul of each client for effective and long-lasting results.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: There is so much that I love and I want to unpack in your bio and the work that you do.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: But first of all, welcome and thanks for joining us.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Of course, absolutely.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for inviting me here.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to have this conversation with you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: So in listening to that, I first of all, I relate so much to feeling a shift in your pregnancy and your birth experience.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I feel that at least I can say for me and other moms that I've talked to that there is such a shift that happens when you become a mom.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, whether it's the most positive of experiences or it goes on to the other spectrum of negative and harmful and traumatic experiences, but it really shifts and changes who you are and what you're about.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, it was actually a traumatic experience, the first birth, and then turned into because that's the type of person that I am, um, turned lemons into lemonade, as they say, and really launched me into this trajectory to where I am now almost um five years later.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it was both.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: So so tell me about your physical therapy journey.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: I've talked about before, I'm an occupational therapist and you know, kind of started out in one direction and then quickly like pivoted, was working in nursing home and like pivoted to working in schools and pediatrics and sensory therapy.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: And like that's kind of where I've lasted for my career thus far.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: What about yourself?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, well, I found that it was so interesting in the mentors around me growing up.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I have a mother who was a nurse when I was a child and then got into healthcare policy.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_04: I have two aunts who are in the physical therapy and occupational therapy world, um, just lots of caregivers in my life and caregivers and strong women, female influences as well.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I always knew from a young age that I wanted to be in healthcare.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then as an athlete, I had some injuries and was in physical therapy myself at a young age around middle school and high school, and just thought, this is cool.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: I could do this, I could see myself doing this.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I was the person in high school who was headstrong.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to college to be a physical therapist.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, whenever somebody asks little 15-year-old me, what are you gonna do when you grow up, or what are you thinking about?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's a common question.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: I had an answer.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so it went to uh college to study exercise science, thinking I would just work with athletes, because that was what how I identified at the time, and got through PT school all the while.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: Everything just kept confirming this is for me, this is for me, this is for me.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_04: And the very first weekend of physical therapy school, I injured my tailbone playing indoor soccer.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oof, came into school with a donut pillow, and my professors were just flabbergasted and obviously sort of honed in on me and used me as a model.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: They were like, here's how you can assess and treat, you know, externally over my clothing and all of that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, I volunteered and said, Yes, sure, use me.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's fine.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so after I was a demonstration for the class, she handed me the business card of a pelvic floor physical therapist saying, You should really get this assessed.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: Here's what you might find there.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not a pelvic floor PT, but I know that this is the area because it's your tailbone, it's in your pelvis.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and within three sessions, I could sit comfortably.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_04: And that was really impactful at that time in my life because I was a student and I had to sit for six hours a day with minimal breaks, which is funny in any kind of schooling, but certainly in a as movement specialist, we sit a lot as students.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that was a little tickler early on in my physical therapy.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: This is over 12 years ago.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: And um, so I got out of PT school, I did the sports thing, I was an athletic-minded physical therapist and person and still am.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I had my son.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so I practiced for about six years doing like strength and conditioning and helping people to rehab from surgeries and get them back on the field or get them started in sport and exercise and just knowing and consuming all the research that told me that that was what people needed and bodies needed.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm so grateful for having had that time as a physical therapist and as a the RKC in my name is a Russian kettlebell certification.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah, and then the story of me really pivoting to pelvic floor PT is also shared in the book that you and I both co-authored, Hot Best to Hot Mom.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Have it right here.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: I loved that project.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: That was so fun to be a part of, so creative.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so the story of me sort of pivoting from kind of the traditional orthopedic model into pelvic health.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it comes from that birth that I had with my son.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: It was an emergency C-section.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and yeah, ever since then I've I pivoted to pelvic floor and haven't looked back and really love the work that I'm doing, love the people that come through my door.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's way more intimate.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, so and I'm sure we'll touch on that a bit.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: That was my big long journey into where I am today.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: And the journey continues.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I totally relate to being in high school, and people are like, I don't know what I want to do with my life.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, Well, I've been working with my guidance counselor and I've narrowed it down to occupational therapy, and I've spent time shadowing an occupational therapist and finding out what that's all about.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: So oh my gosh, totally geeking out on like that being the the like very like girl who knows what she wants in life journey and like we need to know what we want and what we're doing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so your chapter is chapter nine, your body has changed, honor it with curiosity and rest.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I I love this, and I really I'm sure um, listener, you may or may not have had an experience as a new mom, a birthing experience that is not what you planned for.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I know in in my experience, I had a very specific plan for how my birth experience was going to go.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: My son came two and a half weeks early.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had to have pitocin.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: I had to be in bed when I had planned to be moving around and being able to labor in movement, and that did not happen.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it all felt very out of control.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I didn't feel very cared for, acknowledged.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my opinions didn't seem to land anywhere.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: There seemed to be a lot of um disagreement among people.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, for example, the nurse came in and she was like, Oh, you're you're fully dilated, let's cancel your um uh spinal medicine and uh let's just go get the doctor.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: And the doctor comes in and he's like, Oh no, you're only seven.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: If we if you push now, you're gonna tear terribly.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, No, no, no, we we have to wait.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: So then I had to wait longer to get medicine.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And from, I don't know if people know, but when they give you the pitocin and they break your water, like labor happens at like warp speed, which I I had no idea about.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was completely unprepared and feeling like someone who always over-prepares for everything, I was like, I literally have no idea what I'm doing right now.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it was terrifying.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: And my poor husband was like, I don't even know what to do for you.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what to how to help you.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: So when I read your chapter, um, I just resonated so much with that experience of being somebody who is always so, so super prepared and over controlled to being completely out of control.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is not my plan.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I wonder if you could walk us through a little bit of that um and some of the things that you've learned from that experience.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, you just you just hit home on that for sure.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: That was a lot of my own healing after the fact was understanding in therapy why was this so traumatic?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because up until then, in my own life, I have I grew up in privilege.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: I had this false sense of control over my whole world.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: If I wanted to go to college, I went to college.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_04: If I wanted to go to PT school, I went to PT school.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_04: If I wanted to meet a husband, I met a husband.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like there was just like I just what I wanted came naturally, you know, came easily.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: And and uh I believe some of that is is how I approach the world and and that I am an open person, but a lot of it is also the privilege that I grew up in.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_04: So this first big moment in life, becoming a mom, being not controlled and feeling like I had the opposite, if there can be an opposite experience um than the one that I wanted, that is what happened.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_04: So how did I come through that?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: I came through that with a lot of hardship.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um the very the whole first year of Anthony's life was this facade of like, I'm okay because my baby's okay, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like I would tell my story, and the women who knew birth work, and I know you know, they are the women who I keep close to the chest, um, doulas and friends who were gonna become midwives and lactation consultants and um oh gosh, other moms who had had a traumatic experience who had nothing to do with healthcare, you know, they would say they would really hold space for me and my story.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: And then there was a whole other subset of people in my life who were like, well, at least your baby's okay.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, Yeah, too, true.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_04: And that totally discounts that like now the baby's the there's this hierarchy of like the the baby being okay means that my experience was wiped, you know.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and to the listeners who do have the experience of your baby having to go to the NICU, or God forbid, a loss of the child.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I see you, and I can understand that that is a deep grief and a totally different traumatic experience that you do need to deal with.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: And you've just birthed the baby, so there's both going on, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I could I want to hold space for both.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: So uh it taught me a lot, and it taught me how to hold space, it taught me when I was seen by other people, I felt what it meant to, I felt the feeling of like this is a safe space for me to share.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and this person's not going to solve this for me, but they're just present with me and seeing me and hearing me.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I've really brought that into my style of care that I give to other people as a physical therapist, yeah, as well as helping moms to know that they can do everything right in pregnancy, absolutely everything.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: They can watch, you know, drink lots of water, eat really nourishing food, exercise, take all the classes, the things that make you feel like you're preparing, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's really trying to control the situation.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: You can do all of those things, and birth still might not go the way that you want it to go, and it's not your fault.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_04: Totally.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, so those are all the things, those are the two main things.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Being able to hold space for folks when they do have a traumatic experience and trying to prepare them that the work they're doing now in their pregnancy is going to help them in their recovery.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's not exactly going to influence the labor, so to speak.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I think that that's huge.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think the experience of needing to heal, whether it's physical, emotional, mental, or all of the above, after.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the things that I personally found challenging was I knew what my life looked like as a like as a person and a practicing therapist.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then I had to merge in mom.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that for me was one of the more challenging aspects of after having my son, because you know, you get your your three months, which is so short in hindsight.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um conversation.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure we're both, you know, in the same like vein of, yeah, that's not really long enough for much of anything.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um totally arbitrary.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's not based on any research as to like your healing time or the baby development time.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's just no, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, we could have a whole conversation on that.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: We could.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, you know, don't just that little, I can see like this is Let me put a lid on that steaming pot over here.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Touch point.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I know that's I think that's a big one for so many of us who, you know, while I don't typically in my my daytime work as an occupational therapist work with moms, but a lot of my coaching work and helping is is with working moms who really do struggle with trying to balance all of those pieces.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we'll we'll keep it on the micro level of talking about our uh recovery.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you when you had your experience as a new mom and the birth experience you didn't you didn't really anticipate or prepare for, and then you kind of came back to pelvic floor, which is ironically from your story where you started, um, even before you really had your full physical therapy journey, you had your own personal experience with pelvic floor therapy.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, how how did that happen for you after your birth experience?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_04: You know, being on this Mystic Nerd podcast, I believe the universe sort of gave me a sign early on, you know, they were they were planting a seed.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um how did I come back to it?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: It became this I would say it started in pregnancy.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: In my pregnancy, I fell in love with being pregnant.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: I fell in love with this idea of my body knowing and having all this intuition to just grow this little being inside of me.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: It was fascinating and it was a very special time.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and again, I privilege or whatever we want to call this particular section, which is like I had a fairly easy pregnancy, you know, chalk it up to some genetics.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I didn't have a tough time.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: I had this really sweet, life-changing moment.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, I I've had a lot of body positivity prior.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: I had a lot of body positivity in pregnancy too.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so I was just drawn to specifically birth and postpartum, and thought to myself, this is a world that is calling to me.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: I thought I told my husband, can I go back and be a midwife?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, is that what I'm saying?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: Am I yeah, am I gonna go back to school and do this?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, talking to I had um midwives caring for me and you know, chit-chatted with them a bit and learned that they have this like on call piece and thought to myself, well, that piece doesn't really as you know feel so attractive.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, as a physical therapist, what can I do?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_04: How can I how can I be involved?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, well, dub pelvic floor, physical therapy, right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it just was calling to me, Kelly.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how else to say that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was, and then it became intentional, but there was first this just like draw, like I was, yeah, it was just magnet, magnetism.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think that happens, especially, you know, when you have a newborn, there's so many pieces of that that you're drawn into, and so many specialists that we connect with at that time.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for me, it was lactation consultants because um my son had a tongue tie and a lip tie that we didn't know at first.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we had the experience of like, okay, we've got to take care of this tongue tie lip tie.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: The best person is in Manhattan.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: I live in northern New Jersey.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So driving with a three-week-old baby into Manhattan to go get a surgery, I'm like, this is like the, you know, the kind of stuff you go through that you can never anticipate.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: It turned out wonderful.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: And after that, our our breastfeeding journey was so much easier, you know, once that was repaired.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I totally I relate to that and really feeling like I just wanted anytime I talk to a a soon to become mom or a new mom, I just want to give her all the information because I feel like I was there, there is like so much information, like information overload.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: But then there were these gems, these pieces that I feel are almost universal, that I'm like, if if I had known that before.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, you you kind of teeter on the edge of like, am I overwhelming this new mom to be versus new mom?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or am I giving her the the information that either makes her feel seen, heard, understood, or just quells some of that anxiety related to what she's going through?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and because I work so closely with this population, I often ask, do you want resources?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_04: You know, instead of just sending them or yes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if they're asking those questions, which to be fair, I kind of operate in this like bubble or this vacuum of like women seeking information.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: True.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: True.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes they had to work to find me, even.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and then other times they're sent from their GYN or their midwife.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it I I tend to get the population of women uh and moms who who want the resources, but I always ask the question.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think back to you know, some of the things you read in my bio, just helping people feel fully seen and heard.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: Whatever that means for them, holding space.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of fear, there's a lot of unknown that can happen during this time, pregnancy postpartum, as well as in a handful of years or you know, another decade after that, you're starting in perimenopause and and ebbing towards menopause, you know.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's another big shift.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_04: I'm mid-30s.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that's another big shift in life, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: Not everybody becomes a mom, every woman's gonna go through menopause, you know.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_04: So there's this other big population of people that I need to educate, hold space for, provide resources for.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that um just kind of back to your point of like wanting to prepare them, that I do I want to like meet them right at that line and just say, like, okay, does this feel overwhelming?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: No, okay, great.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: Let's let's continue.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: If it does, let's back up.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_04: What's overwhelming?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: Let's talk about it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I am a resource queen.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: I love to provide people with more information, even a podcast, just to listen and get information.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, a book.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I I do love to be able to do that.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm often consuming all of this information as well.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think, you know, mentioning a book, we'll we'll promote her again.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: Hot mess to hot mom.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Hot mom.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: Our lead author was Tara Daleyon.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And what I want to say about this too is like, don't be put off by the title.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're not all trying to be like some sort of like celebrity level, gorgeous.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's about hot mom, like in that space of feeling good, doing what lights you up.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's transformational tools for thriving after childbirth and beyond.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that and beyond could be like, and beyond, like uh, because I think that it's such a it feels like a million years when you're in the midst of postpartum, but it really is such a small fraction.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think what you touched upon, the idea that, you know, not every woman becomes a mother by either their own birth or by adoption or any other means, but every woman will experience the transition um from a menstruating woman to a perimenopausal to a menopausal woman.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm in that perimenopausal phase of life.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I think uh it just blows my mind.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: I on the last episode, um, I spoke with Julie Blanfin from Stretch Your Spirit, also in the book.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we we talked about that, that this is just such an unknown territory.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I don't understand why.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I do understand why.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's a lot of layers to why, but um for me, I I had my son when I was 38.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's right, 37 or 38.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I never felt like I got back into a natural rhythm in life.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it took me until I was about 46 that I was like, oh wait, because I was, I went from like giving birth to like moving into peri-menopausal phase of life.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that had it was less of me getting my body back, which I mean, that's like a whole other angle, but less about that and more about my body just already naturally ready to go through the next phase.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: I just happened to do everything all within like a small frame of time.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think that that is such a special area too, and a little diversion, but um, as a pelvic floor PT, I'm sure this is so much of what you do as well.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, not really, it doesn't feel like a diversion at all, actually.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: So, so the word that I want to say here are these big hormonal shifts.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's hormones.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's hormones in pregnancy that then change and spike and fall in postpartum.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: And then it's the big hormone shift, really a decline of estrogen in menopause.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: And one of the major factors as to why it's so misunderstood.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'm getting some of this from Dr.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_04: Rachel Rubin, who is a urologist out of the Bethesda Silver Spring area.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, follow her on Instagram if you're not right now, if you are a woman or a female-bodied person.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she's doing a really good job of dispelling the misinformation around menopause and offering really good resources for menopausal women, women.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it was vastly misunderstood because there was this one big research article that came out, the Women's Health Initiative, over 20 years ago, and the results were not an accurate representation of the data.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: So what was what was provided as the results made it sound like hormone therapy causes cancer.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: That was the big, and of course, like that would make anybody say, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna stop using this.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: So not only was every person in the medical field told, better not give hormones because now you're gonna give folks this horrible thing, it stopped being taught in school.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: So then we have providers in the field now who were not taught it because at the time they thought they were doing the right thing, but really it was just all a huge misunderstanding.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, we have a lot of work to do because what happens in research doesn't even show up for like 10 years, you know?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so we're there are people that are just like left behind.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so anyway, this era of having access to information, of course, the information on social media has to be vetted, and if you can't vet it yourself, like that's tough, you know?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's hard.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I'm I'll give that resource of Dr.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: Rachel Rubin because I know that that's a a quality resource.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, yes, in Pelvic Floor PT, how what what do I do with these folks?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_04: A I educate them about the same thing I just educated you about.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: B, I provide them resources, and then C, I treat the symptom of it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: So the symptoms that show up are a lot of discomfort with sex because there's this dryness now in your vulva tissue.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because of the lack of estrogen and the dryness, you can have a lot of UTI-like symptoms that recur and recur and recur.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so the real treatment for that is vaginal estrogen, not UTI medicine over and over again.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um so those are two top things that that come through.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, of course, like hip pain, back pain, things just that occur as we get older and and do less and move less.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I get people moving, of course.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then just difficulties with like peeing and pooping.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like all of those things happen at any stage in life, but there are these like predictable things that occur now that we're tracking and following what's going on in menopause.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, so I I help a lot of people around that time of their life.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's huge.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think even just having the conversation around it, um, it's so funny because not funny, haha, but funny, ironic that you talk about something like the the HRT article that came out and the misinformation that was misinterpreted and then communicated on such a large scale.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: It makes me think of the back to sleep um initiative that happens in the what was that, the 80s and 90s.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but like you said, like it takes a little while to permeate.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's still people who are afraid to put their baby to sleep on their belly.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I know for me, a lot of people a lot.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's it's like a like almost like a born-in generational, like people have that fear in their tissue, in their DNA.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, even for me, and like I'm a I'm a pediatric OT.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm a tummy time, like you gotta have tummy time and back time.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you gotta be even, you gotta balance out those muscles.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there were moments that I was like, like the fear came up in me.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, should I be putting my baby on his tummy?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is something gonna happen?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, am I gonna be responsible?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: And is it gonna cause SIDS?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: And like these causal links that are incorrectly made and then have such a huge impact on such a large amount of people.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, look at all of the little ones who have plagiocephaly, and it's just because of that imbalance between being on our tummies and being on our backs and misinformation, and who are you supposed to listen to?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, well, and sleep.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_04: You're such a sleep specialist, too.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Not only does putting a baby on their back mean that they're gonna wake themselves up with their hands gesturing in their face, but who else has to wake up?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: The parents, you know what I mean?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: So, like this simple, yeah, this simple thing.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it does require that they have some head and neck control, and you could speak to that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but I have I have two children.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: So the first we were on his back to sleep, we swaddled him, we had to get him out of the swaddle into a Merlin suit because that keeps his arms out, so then there's all these products we're buying, and then he has to transition from this Merlin suit into nothing.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember thinking to myself, we have created this problem.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: This is silly.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then Maya came along, um, who is our second, and within the first three months of her life, she had all this tummy time, and then for our nap time sleeps that were like in the living room in the bathonet, I just like put her down in her stomach one day and I was like, I'm just gonna keep putting on her.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: And she slept so much better.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like kept doing nap time on her belly and nap time on her belly and nap time on her belly.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then one day I looked at my nose and I was like, I'm not trying to do this overnight, like it's I'm gonna do it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: And this fear, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like this, uh, like I'm there's like an instinct of like this is the right thing, and then also this like horrible fear of like, well, if my baby had like doesn't make it, like this is really not okay.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I will tell you the the triumphant story of she sleeps through the night, she's now 18 months old driving, and that's great.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: She loves to sleep on her belly.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, yeah.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it really is there's there's a short period of time where they're starting to prop up and figure out how to, you know, they do this little and they're like, Can I get my head to the side?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Can I get my head to the side?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: And they can't get their head to the side and they do fall forward.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: So that's not the time.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Or, like you said, during nap time is a great time because a lot of the time you are monitoring them while they're napping in their little thing and you're sitting there and keeping your notebook of all the times that you breastfed and the last time they pooped.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: And oh my gosh, it's such a it's such a great time for data.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I think that's a huge thing.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and sleep can be a challenge for so many reasons.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I I think that's just such a great, like your personal trust and experiment.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: And let's see, like, what we can figure out.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think I can resonate so much with if we're on high alert, our little ones are on high alert, that moral reflex is there.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: So they're ready for danger at any given moment.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times that back position can be such a way to trigger that for them.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: But it takes a lot of things.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: You for bringing that up.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: There, yes, it does, but there are a lot of parallels here between those two um back the back to sleep and the like hormones being bad.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, there are definitely parallels in those two major ideas or you know, like cultural norms that we hold on to that like really don't hold a lot of water.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: So oh my gosh.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: That I mean, that's huge too.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it really speaks to what you mentioned earlier about existing in a state of of privilege and a very like, you know, normed sense of what is typical and how things are supposed to be.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that can really um impact people who maybe don't fall into that category of privilege, um, you know, cultural implications.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, in some cultures, it is normal for the baby to stay with the mom and sleep with the mom.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: And for some people, that's a really terrifying.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's another one, you know, sleeping in the bed with your baby can result in SIDS.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's another, it's a very um specific fact and it's a generalization, and there's a wide spectrum of what could be happening in in that that bed in that family's experience.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: And let's just go back to this intuition piece.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think that that's a big piece of um, you I hope you can hear my wonderful family in the background.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Nope, not at all.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, okay, good.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: Just me.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: They're so sweet.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_04: I love this is uh our Saturday morning routine.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_04: They were just outside playing and now they're they're back inside um with my husband.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: So this intuition, right?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: This is something that you possess, this is something that I possess.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think that this is something that most humans possess, just whether you like tap into it or practice it, or you know, have had any influence as to like what does it really mean to be intuitive?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I like to think, and I've also been told by um clients that I'm really trying to help them be intuitive with their body.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like if I could leave anything on this earth or to each client, it's to help them.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_04: What's the what's the metaphor?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: Teach Amanda fish, right?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was literally thinking that before.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't want to keep catching the fish for you and and giving you the meal.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: I want to teach you how to do it for yourself.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, truly, truly, truly.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: I I want to become just a resource and a coach for people so that you have this moment of, oh my gosh, I'm having for me in my world this symptom.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I have this whole toolbox of things that Gina and I have talked about, or that I've read from this book.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'm gonna start implementing one of these things and see if that starts to change this symptom.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, whatever it may be, peeing your pants, pooping when you don't want to, or being constipated, or having discomfort around intimacy and intercourse with your partner.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know, those are the types of things that come through my door.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, I just want to help folks feel unafraid and know that we're not eliminating things for life.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's unfortunately that's depending on the symptom, not the case, but we can really increase the time between one symptom and the next.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_04: So, like a flare-up of symptoms that they're happening way less often.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: And when they do happen, you're able to get over it sooner, right?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like those are the tools that I want to be handing off to people to help them feel like their own in yeah.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's that's really important.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I feel the same way.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think anything that we give to someone, we we don't want to just hand it on a silver platter, but really give you the underlying foundational piece of being able to understand and manage for yourself.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I get so excited about books like this, because it really is about figuring out for yourself how you heal yourself.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that is what initially drew me to the various projects I've been part of.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think it's so much easier for your first step to be to pick up and read a chapter and try a tool and feel that sense of empowerment that I have the capacity to heal myself.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't have to rely on the experts to do it for me.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's within my own to be like truly empowered and empowered from yourself.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that you say that um, because I think uh, at least from my experience, you know, in in childbirth, that a lot of people present themselves as the expert and they know better than you.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that was one of the most challenging things for me because I had all this self-confidence built through all of my research and studies during my pregnancy and my plan for what would be happening.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then to have people be like, you you really don't know.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously they didn't say you don't know what you're talking about.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was in their tone and what you're saying about having people feel like they're seen and heard is so huge.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_03: And there's so much that happens with your nervous system in those moments.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, one big thing for me in my practice at this point, whether it's with clients who are struggling with sleep or with my students in school, is co-regulation and teaching self-regulation.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: You need the co-regulation first.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when we feel seen, heard, understood in a safe space, like you said earlier, our nervous system and our body is more available to learn, you know.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when we're in that state of fight, flight, and freeze, we're not available to learn, our frontal lobe is shut off for business, and it's all about survival.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um so getting people out of that survival mode and being willing and able to accept advice and ideas and to start to build their own capacity for inner strength and abilities.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, that beautifully said.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have anything to add.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: I just echo all of those things.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's a it's what I feel in terms of as a practitioner, it's that's my legacy to leave.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_03: That, you know, whether it's working with a specific client and helping them and getting them to understand like this is what should be the norm for the people that are helping us, or to instill that in new practitioners who I meet and spend time with to really overemphasize the importance of being present with someone.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think it also speaks to your ability to be intuitive, that you have to be in such a good mental and physical space to be able to hold that space for them without feeling like you're under pressure to give a specific answer, which I think might be part of the challenge we have in our typical medical system that doctors want to be able to give you an answer.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes there isn't a quick and easy one.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think building that own our own intuition as the best person who is the most knowledgeable about how this body works is really valuable.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to just pivot for a minute.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I I know anyone who has been listening is is just so excited to hear more about you, Gina, and how do they connect with you?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Where can they find you?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, tell us all about what you have going on right now.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I will say I have been on a social media cleanse for a bit.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so come to Instagram.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm at PerformX Therapy.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that'll be, I'm sure, listed in the show notes for um spelling.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: I am there.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: I post uh an Instagram live once a month with some of my pelvic floor colleagues at FX Physical Therapy.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: I am an employee at FX Physical Therapy in their Annapolis location.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_04: I would love for you to come see me if you need what I offer and what I do.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um so Instagram and just knowing that I'm here in Annapolis for you, um, those are the best ways to reach out.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then please consider buying this book for yourself or for other new moms.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I agree that, you know, the the title is very catchy, it's cute.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's not about us wanting to make you a hot mom in the aesthetic way, um, but rather a very informed person.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's written by a bunch of women who have different expertise.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and there's a lot of really awesome information in that book.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: Whether you're a new mom right now or whether you've been a mom for a long time, I think that it's something that you can benefit from.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: I totally agree.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's available on Amazon.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: You can get it in Kindle version if you want to start reading it today.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you have Amazon Prime, you can get it really super quick.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's a fantastic read, good for all uh times of your life as a woman.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um, there's also just beautiful stories of people's experiences.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, I think that I've always been super curious about people's experiences and what they went through and you know how they feel about it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so very fun for being a podcaster because I get to do that all the time.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's great to have just a little peek into each person's experience because a lot of the stories are so universal and relatable for people.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_04: And very different from one another, you know.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you'll definitely you're gonna find yourself in the book at some point and maybe multiple points.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that it has a holistic lens.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really treating the whole person um and not just symptom management.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, Gina, I want to thank you for being here today.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: This was such a great conversation.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really impressed with our ability to put the lid on our hot topics and keep with it, but we can definitely pop back on at another point in time and dive into some of those other topics and go ahead and comment if you feel like one of those topics felt like one you want to hear Gina and I give our um thoughts on, especially when we're talking about some of the misinformation out there in the world.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I really appreciate you.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to hear more about what you're up to in the world.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: We'll put everything in the show notes so you can connect with Gina.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'll also get some information.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was Dr.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Rachel Rubin, is that correct?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, who who may have some other um information out there, especially if you're going through perimenopause or menopause, or just want to be prepared for when it may show up at your doorstep.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Kelly, for what you do.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: All right, thank you for being with us.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I hope you have a great day and go ahead and enjoy all of those resources.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Take care, everybody.