Latest / Constellations and all that... / 87. Psychedelics, Plant Medicine & the Wisdom Within with Robi Moore

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87. Psychedelics, Plant Medicine & the Wisdom Within with Robi Moore · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world.
• 0:13
  Tracy: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone.
• 0:35
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today, I'm ex- so excited.
• 0:39
  Tracy: This is a long-awaited, I've been really looking forward to this conversation with Robbie Moore.
• 0:44
  Tracy: Welcome, Robbie.
• 0:46
  Robi: Thank you, Tracey.
• 0:47
  Robi: I've been looking forward to our chat, too.
• 0:49
  Robi: It's, uh, it's been a long time coming.
• 0:50
  Robi: Finally doing it.
• 0:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Tracy: And those who can see me can see I've put up a special background just for Robbie, and, uh- I didn't
• 0:56
  Robi: realize that was just for me.
• 0:57
  Robi: Thank you… Tracy: it was just for you.
• 0:59
  Robi: Absolutely.
• 1:00
  Robi: The first time it's been presented.
• 1:02
  Robi: Lovely.
• 1:03
  Tracy: Would you like to share a little bit about yourself, who you are and what you are up to?
• 1:08
  Robi: Sure.
• 1:09
  Robi: Absolutely.
• 1:10
  Robi: So, um, uh, we, we came to meet each other through Constellations.
• 1:14
  Robi: I was co-facilitating a, a training and, and we met each other there.
• 1:19
  Robi: I'm a family constellations, uh, practitioner, a, um, psychotherapist, and I specialize in a version of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, and I train mental health professionals on, um, how to think about psychedelic experiences from a morphic field lens, and- Mm and, uh, how, how, um, constellations and psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy are, um, very much touching the same field.
• 1:52
  Tracy: Fascinating.
• 1:53
  Robi: Mm. I think so.
• 1:54
  Robi: Yeah.
• 1:54
  Robi: So the mushroom is very appropriate today.
• 1:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 1:57
  Tracy: I thought so.
• 1:58
  Tracy: Might not be the right mushroom, but it was the one I found.
• 2:02
  Robi: Well, you have to be very careful which one you eat, apparently.
• 2:05
  Tracy: Apparently.
• 2:05
  Tracy: M- yes, my husband always says, "All mushrooms are edible. They're not all survivable, but they are all edible."
• 2:12
  Robi: Oh, that's very true.
• 2:13
  Tracy: Mm. Okay.
• 2:14
  Tracy: Tell me, how did you get into constellations?
• 2:16
  Tracy: How was your… What was your first introduction
• 2:19
  Robi: to constellations?
• 2:19
  Robi: My, um, a, a friend of mine went to see, uh, went to a constellations day many, many years ago.
• 2:26
  Robi: It would be 2006, I think.
• 2:30
  Robi: And, um, and she said, "I was there all day and I just kept thinking of you. I think you should, you should do this." And so I explored it, and it was very much, um, in my field of interest.
• 2:43
  Tracy: Mm.
• 2:43
  Robi: And so I, I, I, I did some training back in 2009, I think, originally, and, uh, that was, that was where things started for me, and I started bringing it into my therapy work and found it was u- very useful in the one-on-one space, and went and did further training, and at some point started running groups or, uh, workshops, and just found it really lovely to, um, to, to witness what's possible when we acknowledge and attune to the, the history that's alive now.
• 3:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 3:19
  Robi: Yeah.
• 3:20
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 3:21
  Tracy: So who was, who was your original trainer?
• 3:24
  Robi: Uh, originally I trained with Maria.
• 3:27
  Tracy: Oh, wow.
• 3:28
  Tracy: Yep.
• 3:28
  Robi: Yes.
• 3:29
  Robi: And I, I meandered around a few places, but I ended up going back and redoing Maria's training a handful of years later just, just to come at the same material from a different place in myself.
• 3:41
  Robi: Mm.
• 3:42
  Robi: And, uh, it was really useful to do that.
• 3:44
  Tracy: It was, yeah.
• 3:45
  Tracy: Uh, like I had been working in the field for so many years myself, and that was when… I had actually think I met you, um, in Sydney before that briefly, like what, in a big event.
• 3:57
  Robi: Oh, we did back in, um, 2016 Constellation Intensive.
• 4:01
  Tracy: Yes.
• 4:02
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, and then again at Maria's last year, and it was really fascinating just to go back, hey, as a, you're already working in the field, but just to see it from a different perspective.
• 4:12
  Robi: Yes.
• 4:13
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:13
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:13
  Robi: Well, if Maria, Maria's taught me so much, and all of my trainers in that space or teachers in that space, uh, and we're all teachers in that space, have taught me an awful lot.
• 4:24
  Robi: But, uh, what Maria taught me that she still lives by, which I find is amazing in, in her 80s, is, um, to always stay the student.
• 4:33
  Robi: And, and- Yes … the humility of that allows us to always keep learning.
• 4:37
  Robi: Mm. And so, you know, I guess that's what you were doing last year.
• 4:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 4:43
  Robi: I'll be doing that this year, later on this year.
• 4:46
  Robi: Uh, I'm planning on coming over to your, your, uh, side of the pond in the, uh, the, the November weekend.
• 4:53
  Tracy: Oh, fantastic.
• 4:55
  Tracy: That'll be- Yes … very cool.
• 4:57
  Tracy: Very cool.
• 4:58
  Tracy: Coming in through Wellington.
• 5:00
  Robi: Yes.
• 5:01
  Tracy: Great.
• 5:01
  Tracy: I'll look forward to that.
• 5:03
  Tracy: How do you describe your work to people?
• 5:05
  Robi: I try not to.
• 5:07
  Robi: When I, um, when I start constellations workshops, and people often roll their eyes at this, or at least people that have trained in the space, um, but it's just… Maybe it's me being cheeky, but I, I typically say, "Who here hasn't done constellations work?" And there'll be a handful of people that put their hands up, and I simply say, "Okay, well, welcome, and you'll get the hang of it."
• 5:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Robi: So I think that, that really, um, any description is not gonna do justice to anyone's direct experience.
• 5:39
  Robi: And so typically, I only work with, not only, but typically, I, I work with people that have been referred to me, so I don't really have to share anything about what I do.
• 5:48
  Robi: We, we both get an experience of each other as we walk down the path together.
• 5:53
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:54
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 5:55
  Tracy: Tell me a little bit more about the psyche- psychedelic side of that.
• 5:59
  Tracy: How does that process actually work?
• 6:01
  Tracy: 'Cause people are gonna go, "Oh, do we all go to a workshop and have some psychedelics and have a constellation?" How does this work?
• 6:07
  Robi: Right.
• 6:07
  Robi: Well, there's many ways to answer that.
• 6:09
  Robi: But no, I certainly don't bring, and not, not that I bring psychedelics in my work anyway, but, um, I certainly don't sit there and everyone, you know, kind of, um, has a, a big dose of, of mushrooms.
• 6:20
  Robi: The constellations work gets done in the preparation, so, uh, for, for their psychedelic journey, whatever that is.
• 6:30
  Robi: Okay.
• 6:30
  Robi: So, um, I'm really a, a, I guess, a facilitator of somebody's calling.
• 6:35
  Robi: When someone gets the sense that they wanna work with ayahuasca or with psilocybin or whatever the medicine is, I wrap psychotherapy around their journey.
• 6:47
  Robi: So I help them prepare and integrate that experience.
• 6:52
  Robi: And the constellation get, work gets done prior to the, the, um, psychedelic day itself.
• 6:59
  Robi: And so in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, there's a lot of talk around, um, set and setting.
• 7:04
  Robi: Getting the set right and the setting right, and preparing people, um, in the most appropriate way so that they can have a safe journey.
• 7:13
  Robi: And in my experience, the, the most important preparation and resourcing of an individual if they're gonna go down that path is to restore the orders of love so that they can rest in the strength of, of what's in them in the process of facing what, what's coming.
• 7:32
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 7:33
  Tracy: Yeah, because, you know, you… It's the resources to lean into so that if there's fear or panic or-
• 7:41
  Robi: That's right.
• 7:42
  Robi: They're held and moved back into, you know, the arms of, of their, their elders.
• 7:47
  Robi: Yeah.
• 7:47
  Robi: And, uh, and what I've, what I've found is that so many people that have not done that process, this is going back some, some time now, who have not prepared with constellations often have these nebulous kind of confusing psychedelic journeys where, for instance, they, um, they're holding this incredible anxiety that doesn't make any sense to them, and the whole journey was just this confusing anxiousness.
• 8:16
  Robi: Mm. And, and then when we unpack what happened, of course, the, the mother was profoundly anxious, and the, the, the journeygoer's upbringing was holding Mum's anxiety.
• 8:29
  Robi: And so by doing the constellations before the psychedelic experiences, it allows in, in, consistently in almost all cases, space and room for, um, for the person to face what's theirs rather than to face what they're holding that's not theirs.
• 8:48
  Robi: Um-
• 8:48
  Tracy: Yeah, 'cause you've got all this other stuff coming in.
• 8:51
  Tracy: Yes.
• 8:51
  Tracy: And rather than be able to have this experience, you've got all this other stuff going, "Look at me. Look at me." Exactly.
• 8:56
  Tracy: "Just
• 8:56
  Robi: check this out." Yes, but there's not necessarily a sense of, "Ah, this is what I'm holding that's Mum's." It's just, here it is, and it's very powerful, and it doesn't make sense.
• 9:06
  Robi: And so the, the two seem to go hand-in-hand very well.
• 9:10
  Tracy: That's fantastic.
• 9:11
  Tracy: How, how does the association feel about you doing psyched- psychedelic-assisted therapy now?
• 9:18
  Robi: Well, um, well, I'm… My work is to prepare clients and help them integrate for their experiences.
• 9:25
  Robi: The, um- It's a good, it's an important question, I think, because the, the dilemma that's been created is in the media, um, and within the, the clinical trials, is that, um, the clinic- the clinical trials are showing incredible results.
• 9:44
  Robi: Mm. And so the media's saying, "Wow, look at this. This is amazing. People are really healing this condition, that condition, and, and all sorts of other things." And so it's now become very, very public in terms of the efficacy of these medicines.
• 10:00
  Robi: Mm. But so few people are allowed to work with them.
• 10:06
  Robi: Yeah.
• 10:07
  Robi: And, and, and it's un- it's under incredible cost constraints.
• 10:12
  Robi: And so it creates an environment where, um, people want to go and use these medicines to, to heal, and they, you know, they bring about amazing results.
• 10:23
  Robi: And so I attend to that part of the market, people that are saying,"Well, I'm not waiting for 25 years for, um, for, for me to be able to attend to what I'm suffering with now.
• 10:35
  Robi: I'm taking these medicines, and it's happening, and I would like a psychotherapist who can help me prepare and integrate, um, those processes." And so that's really where I operate.
• 10:47
  Tracy: So in Australia, is psilocybin legal?
• 10:51
  Robi: If it's prescribed by- Oh, yeah … um, a qualified, trained, registered psychiatrist.
• 10:59
  Tracy: Okay.
• 11:00
  Robi: Yeah.
• 11:01
  Robi: And I think the conditions currently are, um, uh, treatment-resistant depression for psilocybin and, um, it's also, um, certain criteria around PTSD.
• 11:14
  Tracy: Right.
• 11:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Robi: But anything that f- that falls outside of that is, um, is not, it's not covered, therefore it can't be prescribed.
• 11:23
  Robi: Therefore, if it happens, um, it, it, it's not sanctioned.
• 11:28
  Robi: But of course- Okay … this is what people are doing.
• 11:29
  Robi: People are understanding that, um, that mushrooms literally grow in forests, and, uh, it's, it's impossible to police this, and that they've been ingested for millennia- Mm … uh, with, with incredible results.
• 11:44
  Robi: And so they're finding their own way.
• 11:46
  Robi: But the risk is that, um, without adequate preparation and integration, it's just an- Yeah experience, or at worst, it's a damaging experience.
• 11:57
  Tracy: Yes.
• 11:58
  Tracy: Myself and mushrooms in my youth was- Ah … quite a damaging experience.
• 12:03
  Robi: Oh, really?
• 12:03
  Robi: Do you care to share?
• 12:05
  Tracy: But at, at the same time, it was, it was good because it put me off them.
• 12:08
  Robi: What happened, if you, if you care
• 12:10
  Tracy: to share?
• 12:10
  Tracy: I probably took far too many.
• 12:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Tracy: And, um, and really in those days, I was just w- um, focused on getting as disconnected from reality as I possibly could.
• 12:23
  Robi: And that would have brought you squarely into contact with reality.
• 12:28
  Tracy: Oh, I don't know about that.
• 12:30
  Robi: Okay.
• 12:31
  Robi: Right.
• 12:31
  Robi: It
• 12:31
  Tracy: was… I may have consumed some other things at the times too, but…
• 12:36
  Robi: Yes, I can- I, I- I can re- I can relate.
• 12:39
  Tracy: Yeah, I do remember having like, seeing the, the bench moving and, um- Mm … you know, a child walking with w- showing me a pair of scissors.
• 12:48
  Tracy: I was in the company of some- Of a child, not mine.
• 12:53
  Tracy: I wasn't babysitting.
• 12:54
  Tracy: There was a child in the space, and it, um, just brought up stuff for me.
• 13:00
  Tracy: Like, so all this stuff arose, right?
• 13:02
  Tracy: Yes.
• 13:02
  Tracy: And I didn't know how to deal with it, so it just became this- Yeah … for me, a nightmare at the time.
• 13:07
  Robi: Yes.
• 13:08
  Robi: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Robi: I think that's the definition of a bad trip.
• 13:10
  Robi: It's where, um, you know, in a different environment where you're attended to, that would've been a useful trip.
• 13:16
  Robi: But because you were- Oh, absolutely completely untended, it was a very difficult experience by the sounds of
• 13:22
  Tracy: it.
• 13:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:23
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:23
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 13:24
  Tracy: I was r- I was just trying to forget everything, not think about it at the time.
• 13:28
  Robi: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:30
  Robi: Yes, and so part of my work is to kind of intercept those sorts of places and help people face what needs to be faced before the day, rather than, you know, kind of- Mm leaving them to face what happens on the day and not know what's going on, which, which happens.
• 13:49
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:50
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Tracy: I know that, um, that we have a doctor here in, in New Zealand that has a license for LSD to assist people with palliative care.
• 14:01
  Robi: Yes, okay.
• 14:03
  Tracy: And which feels like such a beautiful offering-
• 14:05
  Robi: Yeah… Tracy: for before, you Yeah.
• 14:09
  Tracy: Being able to have that experience and let go of those things that are creating the anxiety and the fear and,
• 14:16
  Robi: yeah.
• 14:16
  Robi: Yeah.
• 14:17
  Robi: Yes, from what I understand, most of that anxiety and fear is, is the fear, the fear of death itself.
• 14:23
  Robi: And the- Mm … experience tends to give them an experience of something beyond what we call this life, and, and that seems to be very soothing.
• 14:33
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 14:36
  Tracy: I had, I had had a conversation with my mum about it, and she was quite … And Mum never did any, um, drugs or anything.
• 14:45
  Tracy: But she was, she was considering it, yeah.
• 14:48
  Tracy: Mm. For the experience.
• 14:49
  Tracy: But it, it didn't get to that point, but, um-
• 14:52
  Robi: Right… Tracy: because I happened to and, with this doctor- Yeah and that, so, um, but anyway, it fascinated me.
• 15:02
  Robi: Yes.
• 15:02
  Tracy: I think it would be, yeah.
• 15:03
  Tracy: It's a, it's a great resource.
• 15:05
  Tracy: Well, it's been, you
• 15:05
  Robi: know, it, it is fascinating, and it's been around, it meaning these medicines, have been around for millennia.
• 15:13
  Robi: And it's only really the, the injury imposed by the, the, the so-called war on drugs that was actually more an agenda around America's situation with Mexico, um, that, that, that all of these, um, explorations have really been shut down.
• 15:32
  Tracy: Can you explain that a bit more?
• 15:34
  Robi: Yeah, so, um, Ronald, Ronald Reagan brought forward the war on drugs.
• 15:39
  Robi: And, um, and, and part of, part of what they did is they sensationalized, um, people smoking marijuana.
• 15:48
  Robi: They were showing photos of people on, I think, um, I think it was heroin.
• 15:53
  Robi: Uh, uh, and if you smoke marijuana, then this is what you look like.
• 15:56
  Robi: And so they, there was a lot of misinformation around- Mm … um, drugs.
• 16:03
  Robi: But there was a political agenda, which we don't have to go into here, that was the impetus behind that, um, campaign.
• 16:10
  Robi: But it, you know, it really did land, and it was very effective.
• 16:16
  Robi: And Margaret Thatcher, in tandem, also initiated that war on, on drugs.
• 16:22
  Robi: And so people have a very, um, uh, inaccurate view on what a drug is versus what a medicine is.
• 16:31
  Tracy: Yes.
• 16:32
  Tracy: Right.
• 16:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Tracy: Mm. And, and there's the misuse of the medicine as well, too, isn't there?
• 16:37
  Robi: Yes.
• 16:37
  Robi: Well, a medicine can become a drug.
• 16:40
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Tracy: You
• 16:41
  Robi: know, like the definition of a drug in, in terms of what we're speaking of is that someone takes it to get a response and that response moves them further away from their pain.
• 16:53
  Robi: But they have to keep taking the drug to stay away from their pain, but they have to keep taking more and more of the drug because it becomes, you know, um, more accustomed within their system.
• 17:05
  Robi: That's typically our definition of, of drugs moving into addiction.
• 17:10
  Robi: Whereas a medicine- Yes … is of- often the opposite.
• 17:13
  Robi: We take the medicine to engage with and face what we haven't been facing, and we may take that medicine several times and quite often we need even less medicine because we become more attuned and more sensitive to what's happening.
• 17:27
  Robi: Mm.
• 17:27
  Tracy: I like that definition.
• 17:28
  Tracy: That's great.
• 17:29
  Robi: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Robi: And I, and when I say medicines, I'm speaking of plant medicines.
• 17:32
  Robi: So ayahuascas- Yeah … the Amazon kind of, uh, master plants and, um, you know, mushrooms, peyote, um, wachuma, the, the cactus medicines, those sorts of things.
• 17:45
  Tracy: I've f- I've found now that I'm so sensitive.
• 17:48
  Tracy: I've been in an environment where, um … Bufo.
• 17:52
  Tracy: You've heard of Bufo?
• 17:53
  Robi: I have.
• 17:54
  Robi: Which is- I hear, I hear that's a very potent and ancient medicine.
• 17:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:00
  Tracy: And, um, and I was invited to partake and, but it, my body was a very much a no, but I also got a, but I need to be there.
• 18:10
  Robi: Okay.
• 18:11
  Tracy: So I went to the circle and, um, and I didn't partake in the medicine itself, but I could feel it.
• 18:18
  Tracy: So there was one person in particular who came who had, um, in her earlier days had had quite a few seizures, and she hadn't for a very long time and she wanted to experience the medicine and she was, she was sort of on the edge and, um, that when she realized that I was there, she felt comfortable to do it.
• 18:39
  Robi: Uh-huh.
• 18:40
  Tracy: Which was totally her, her choice, right?
• 18:42
  Tracy: Um, and so I sat with her and I felt the experience as much as she did and I didn't even consume it.
• 18:49
  Tracy: Yes.
• 18:50
  Tracy: But it was the energy that was in that space.
• 18:53
  Robi: That's right.
• 18:54
  Robi: So what you're speaking of, um, I would suggest is, is the, um, crossover between psychedelics and, um, constellations, the direct engagement with the morphic field.
• 19:06
  Tracy: It was a fascinating experience and, and, and, and in a deepening of n- me knowing- Of, and of understanding myself, I guess, in that way.
• 19:15
  Tracy: You know, like constellation work in itself helped me to understand the things that I'd always ex- you know, I'd experience stuff and I'd be like, "Why do I experience this?
• 19:23
  Tracy: Why do, what is my… Why do I feel very different as soon as I step into this space?" Or, you know, the sensitivities and the morphic field, absolutely.
• 19:31
  Tracy: So yeah.
• 19:32
  Tracy: Mm. That was a real highlight.
• 19:34
  Tracy: And that wasn't t- that many years ago, but it was just like, wow.
• 19:36
  Tracy: So I don't even need to take it to have that experience.
• 19:39
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 19:40
  Robi: It is amazing, isn't it?
• 19:41
  Tracy: Mm.
• 19:41
  Robi: But it reminds me recently I, um, I ran a workshop where we constellated, rather than families, we constellated the plant kingdom, so all these different medicines.
• 19:53
  Tracy: Oh.
• 19:53
  Robi: So it was a group of 30 people that all had experience, many of them, um, significant experience, indigenous traditions, taking different medicines.
• 20:05
  Robi: And we constellated things like ayahuasca, um, iboga, um, a, a whole range of Amazonian medicines, and it was profound.
• 20:16
  Robi: People, people kind of ended the day saying, "I can't believe that. It was as if I was on the medicine itself."
• 20:23
  Tracy: So when you say constellated, it was, what was the intention to constella- or was it more of to experience it?
• 20:31
  Robi: Well, the, the intention was individual based on what, what people were working with through their journey.
• 20:39
  Robi: Oh, right.
• 20:40
  Robi: So the intention was let's, let's prepare and integrate whichever it is, or both, um, what, what people's experience is.
• 20:48
  Robi: And so there was a lot of people there that have done what's called a vegetales- vegetalista dieta, which is, um, an Amazonian, um, a grueling process of, um, 10 to 30 days of fasting.
• 21:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Robi: Where they, they eat once a day or once every couple of days.
• 21:08
  Tracy: Oh, yeah.
• 21:08
  Robi: And they ingest ayahuasca many times, but they also diet what's called a master plant.
• 21:15
  Robi: A master plant is one of the, um, wisdom trees or plants from the Amazon with the intention that, um, or to put it in our constellation terms, uh, that the, that the dieter, the dieter will attune to the morphic resonance of that plant.
• 21:32
  Robi: Mm. And they come out with, um, with great healing and great, um, insight and, and, um, new wisdoms in themselves.
• 21:41
  Robi: And so there was a lot of, lot of, lot of people that had done many of those, um, dietas.
• 21:48
  Robi: And so we constellated these trees, and it was incredible how powerful that was for people and how alive these experiences became.
• 21:59
  Robi: Mm.
• 21:59
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 22:01
  Robi: Yes.
• 22:02
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:03
  Tracy: A little… Uh, I was just thinking, um, the, the power of it being in the field.
• 22:07
  Tracy: So after my, after that experience, or many- The bufo experience … but quite a few years up, my, um, yeah, the bufo experience.
• 22:15
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 22:15
  Tracy: And I was, um, I was in a workshop, and- And I just happened to say, "Oh, it feels like the psilocybin energy is here." You know?
• 22:26
  Tracy: Mm. And, um, and a number of us went and had the most amazing constellation.
• 22:33
  Tracy: Like it just- Mm … flowed into a different space.
• 22:37
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 22:37
  Tracy: Or a more expansive space even.
• 22:40
  Tracy: There was just something different about that constellation, so yeah.
• 22:44
  Robi: Oh.
• 22:44
  Robi: Yeah.
• 22:45
  Robi: Sounds like you, um, skillfully kind of attuned to something that was useful for the room.
• 22:51
  Tracy: Well, it was great.
• 22:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 22:52
  Tracy: And, and because it was, uh, a constellation in nature as well, so it was really- Mm … really quite profound.
• 22:58
  Tracy: Um-
• 22:59
  Robi: Yes… Tracy: yeah.
• 23:00
  Robi: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Robi: Lovely.
• 23:01
  Tracy: Wow.
• 23:02
  Tracy: Amazing.
• 23:03
  Tracy: Have you got any… People love examples of the work, things that obviously without crossing any- Mm … confidentiality or anything like that, but anything that you can r- share that may have shifted or you've witnessed or experienced in the field through this work?
• 23:21
  Tracy: The,
• 23:22
  Robi: the constellation work?
• 23:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 23:24
  Tracy: And maybe, maybe with psychedelics or without.
• 23:27
  Tracy: Whatever is there for you to share.
• 23:29
  Robi: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Robi: Right.
• 23:30
  Robi: Well, I think, yeah, there's… What, what to say on that?
• 23:33
  Robi: There's probably a lot to say on that without revealing anything that doesn't need to be revealed.
• 23:39
  Robi: I think that the, um, firstly, the similarities, part of the similarities if we start with constellations as the, the metaphor for psychedelics is that in constellations, you know, we all come with stuff that hasn't, uh, either been faced or we know is there and is unfaceable.
• 24:00
  Tracy: Mm.
• 24:00
  Robi: And so through, through being held through many, there becomes a field of support and coherence large enough to have the person turn towards and face and digest, if not in themselves, in the collective, which is still digesting, so that what's not faceable is faceable.
• 24:23
  Robi: And, and so in many ways that's what the psychedelic medicines do.
• 24:27
  Robi: They allow people an inner resource rather than needing a collection of, um, constellators to be able to turn towards the thing that they didn't even know they were running from.
• 24:39
  Robi: And so I've, I've seen things, you know, quite, quite simply I've seen people smoking for, for many, many, many years after one journey just, um, not have to quit.
• 24:51
  Robi: It just, it just goes to the side.
• 24:54
  Robi: Same with- Yeah … drinking.
• 24:55
  Robi: Certainly long-held traumatic events that, um, seem unchangeable.
• 25:05
  Robi: A- a- and unbearable in lots of instances- Yeah … just, um, often melt away.
• 25:10
  Robi: But not, not through the act of just swallowing psychedelics.
• 25:16
  Robi: Through careful and attuned preparation in, in helping a person know what it is they need to orient towards and face.
• 25:25
  Tracy: Well, that's right, 'cause you're being intentional, aren't you?
• 25:27
  Tracy: You're being present and intentional around what it is that you're, that you're l- gonna look at something rather than just, "I'll just pop this and see what happens."
• 25:35
  Robi: That's right.
• 25:35
  Robi: 'Cause that's a little bit like, you know, just people, people play musical chairs and suddenly there's a dozen people standing in front of us and we don't know, "Well, what's going on here?
• 25:44
  Robi: I don't know." You know?
• 25:46
  Robi: Mm. But similar to constellations.
• 25:48
  Robi: The constellations, the power of constellation is in the witnessing and seeing of what is.
• 25:55
  Robi: And the skill of a constellator is in being able to kind of, um, you know, attune to that constellation so that the, um, the client can see what is.
• 26:09
  Robi: And, and that's very much the same with psychedelic medicines.
• 26:13
  Tracy: Mm.
• 26:13
  Robi: It's kind of, uh, uh, preparing for, preparing people to face what, what is inevitably what they're gonna face.
• 26:21
  Tracy: And I think, I think a lot of people may have the conception that you get really, you're on this big trip.
• 26:27
  Tracy: Whereas it's, it's… Is it true, this is my understanding, and that it's, um, what's the word?
• 26:34
  Tracy: So like the, the smaller doses and then building up.
• 26:39
  Tracy: Is that the right way?
• 26:39
  Robi: That can sometimes be the way to go.
• 26:42
  Robi: It depends on what people, you know- Okay … o- on where they're at and what they, you know, what they understand and what's, what's safe.
• 26:50
  Robi: Um, but I think that the misconception is that people have to take, um, a heroic dose for anything to happen.
• 26:57
  Robi: Often it's in the subtleties that deep change can happen.
• 27:01
  Robi: You know, people talk about taking a big dose and getting ego death, but actually for someone with a, um, developmental, um, trauma where they haven't got a sense of self, to have such a big dose where the ego disappears is kind of, well, it's kind of what they live with every day.
• 27:20
  Robi: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Robi: So a lower dose that amplifies sensation and allows them to, um, suddenly feel what's in them rather than only live external to themselves is super powerful and much more healing and, um, less injuring or less risk of injuring than a, than a big hero's dose.
• 27:42
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:45
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 27:46
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Tracy: Are there other, um, medicines that you would… that are maybe more accessible for people?
• 27:52
  Tracy: Like, I use cacao.
• 27:54
  Robi: Yes.
• 27:54
  Robi: I've had your cacao.
• 27:55
  Robi: It's delightful.
• 27:56
  Tracy: It's lovely, eh?
• 27:57
  Robi: Mm.
• 27:58
  Tracy: It's very healthy.
• 27:58
  Tracy: Um, and it's such a great, for me, it has been such a great resource for the PTSD and, and just being able to be- Intentional, being present and-
• 28:09
  Robi: I never knew that about cacao, but it makes sense because there's a, there's a deep presence and there's like a, there's a heart, heartness to cacao.
• 28:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Tracy: Well, it's, it's, it's very heart, uh, aware, heart activating.
• 28:23
  Tracy: And, uh, it lowers your blood pressure too, so you know, things… Your whole body, you become much more present.
• 28:29
  Tracy: Um, high in magnesium and, and zinc and selenium, and all, all sorts of different things, so it's supporting your body.
• 28:36
  Tracy: It's been the thing that has kept me from… In fact, I was afraid to take it at the beginning because someone said to me,"Oh, cacao's great. You get really high on it." And I was like, "Oh, done that.
• 28:49
  Tracy: Been there, done that in my little- Sure… my colorful journey of life." Mm-hmm.
• 28:53
  Tracy: Don't think I'll go there.
• 28:54
  Tracy: And then, and then, um, I had a, a journey with some health issues and I thought, "Oh, think I'll give cacao a go, see if I can get what's underneath it." You know?
• 29:05
  Tracy: Like, s- get some insight.
• 29:07
  Tracy: And my body just went, "Oh, this is what you've been waiting for," and just relaxed.
• 29:12
  Tracy: And I was like, "Oh, there's…" Yeah.
• 29:15
  Tracy: So much in that, in that feeling.
• 29:17
  Robi: Yes.
• 29:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Robi: That is the… That's a, a beautiful description of, um, the, the movement of all these medicines is a, is a coming down and a, and an exhale into oneself, into one's body.
• 29:29
  Robi: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Robi: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Robi: Into a state of being able to let go of tension and be in- Yeah … the body they're in.
• 29:38
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 29:39
  Robi: Mm. And so yes, I think there are so many medicines that can do that.
• 29:43
  Robi: Um, and you don't need rocket fuel doses to, to achieve that.
• 29:48
  Robi: But, um, you know, the medicines that I personally have worked with is many Amazon medicines.
• 29:56
  Robi: Um, this is not, you know, um, in clinic.
• 30:00
  Robi: This is in, in me.
• 30:01
  Robi: Um, ayahuasca, psilocybin, uh, did I mention iboga?
• 30:05
  Robi: Iboga, um, was my first one.
• 30:08
  Robi: Um, wachuma.
• 30:10
  Robi: S- Uh, and, and they all have given in, in their teachings, a sense of deepening into the visceral reality of my truth rather than the, the cognitive kind of turning of-
• 30:24
  Tracy: Mm
• 30:25
  Robi: what's happening in the world.
• 30:26
  Tracy: And when we think about our ancestors and how they would have used, used the plants- Mm … and the medicines and the listening to the- To the wisdom of them, hey?
• 30:36
  Robi: That's right, and that's what's really been taken away in this more industrialized, commercialized, Americanized, to use that word, um, kind of world.
• 30:47
  Robi: It's kind of more, you know, information to take charge of and be in power and take control over.
• 30:54
  Robi: Mm. And it's so up here and out there.
• 30:57
  Robi: Whereas what's been lost is the, the listening within.
• 31:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:01
  Tracy: Yeah, well, we're desensitized to it, aren't they, aren't we?
• 31:04
  Tracy: Yes.
• 31:04
  Tracy: And, and there's so much we can go into with that, but, um-
• 31:08
  Robi: Yes, there's a big history in that
• 31:10
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:11
  Tracy: Let's desensitize everyone so they're not aware of their own, um, selves.
• 31:15
  Tracy: Yes.
• 31:15
  Tracy: Hope we take them as far away from- Well, it's much
• 31:18
  Robi: easier to kind of regulate a society if everyone's, uh, ironically dysregulated.
• 31:23
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:26
  Tracy: Yeah, totally agree.
• 31:27
  Tracy: Now you've been in the, in the constellation realm for quite some time.
• 31:30
  Tracy: What d- what changes have you noticed over the years in, um, in the evolution of the work?
• 31:37
  Tracy: Is there anything that stands out for you?
• 31:39
  Tracy: I
• 31:40
  Robi: think that, I, I, I don't know, you might, you might think this as well, I think it looks fairly self-evident to me.
• 31:47
  Robi: Um, and, and that is that people are learning that, that, um, that you can use this technology and point it anywhere.
• 31:56
  Robi: Doesn't have to be pointed at family systems- Mm … for it to work.
• 32:02
  Robi: You know, people are using it with, um, ancient Chinese wisdoms.
• 32:06
  Robi: I'm using it with, you know, Amazonian plant medicine, um, constellations.
• 32:12
  Robi: People are using it in the, um, the corporate space.
• 32:15
  Robi: It, it, it's, you know, once p- what I've noticed is that once people learn the technology, that is you put people down and you template that particular morphic field, you have access to the field, well, that can get pointed anywhere.
• 32:30
  Robi: And I think- Yeah … that's what people are… You know, I'm seeing people just constellate all sorts of novel and, and unusual things that are amazing.
• 32:40
  Robi: Yeah.
• 32:41
  Robi: And yeah, I think that's, I'm seeing that just happen everywhere.
• 32:46
  Tracy: Yeah, I love that.
• 32:48
  Tracy: I do too.
• 32:48
  Tracy: I see that everywhere.
• 32:48
  Tracy: Um- Mm.
• 32:49
  Robi: Yes, there's always… It's like, "Oh, I never thought about constellating that.
• 32:52
  Robi: What a good idea."
• 32:53
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 32:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:55
  Tracy: I use it and I, um, do a bit of art with it as well.
• 32:59
  Tracy: Oh, you do that?
• 32:59
  Tracy: So sometimes in my workshops or week, um, retreats I'll, I'll add an art practice in.
• 33:06
  Tracy: Um, yeah, and it's quite profound.
• 33:08
  Tracy: So we're taking you through a constellation process but creating art.
• 33:12
  Tracy: I did one around- Mm the inner child, and over the weekend, um, we all did a painting around our inner child and constellated and it was just fascinating and-
• 33:22
  Robi: Mm… Tracy: so powerful what came up.
• 33:24
  Robi: Yeah.
• 33:25
  Robi: Lovely.
• 33:26
  Tracy: And then resources is a big thing for me as well, so bringing in a lot of… Finding the, helping people to find their resources.
• 33:32
  Tracy: What are some of the things that are there for them?
• 33:36
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Robi: Yes.
• 33:37
  Robi: It's so important that, isn't it?
• 33:39
  Robi: 'Cause that's, in this, in this world, resources are what we mistakenly think for zeros and ones in bank accounts.
• 33:47
  Robi: Mm. Um, versus the real resources which we are often without.
• 33:53
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:54
  Tracy: Yeah, disconnected from or disassociated with.
• 33:57
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Robi: Yeah.
• 34:00
  Robi: I think our lands are so, um, so overlooked as the, as a real resource in us quite often.
• 34:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Tracy: Yep.
• 34:10
  Tracy: There's a- Mm … process that are around that as well.
• 34:12
  Tracy: Uh, with your la- your mountain and your rivers and, and also the land and the, you know, the land and the sky- Mm … all the different things that we take for granted.
• 34:22
  Tracy: And you, and you
• 34:23
  Robi: choose representatives for each of those aspects of the land as resources?
• 34:27
  Robi: K-
• 34:27
  Tracy: there's different, yeah, there's different ways you could do it.
• 34:29
  Tracy: You could do it with, um, with objects and place them as those things.
• 34:34
  Tracy: Or, um, the way I like to do it is your ancestral mountain and an ancestral river.
• 34:40
  Tracy: We call it a maunga and a awa.
• 34:42
  Robi: Okay.
• 34:43
  Tracy: And then, and then the ones that are there to support you now in your day.
• 34:46
  Tracy: And, and sometimes, um, people think,"Well, that's my ancestral one as well." But remembering, I remind them that there are millions of ancestors, so there's gonna be more than one mountain and more than one river.
• 34:59
  Tracy: So we'll just- Mm … we won't actually name it as, as a particular one, but just calling it that.
• 35:04
  Robi: Yeah.
• 35:04
  Robi: And then, and then- As more of the, the, the collective flow rather than the un- rather than Uncle Harry.
• 35:11
  Tracy: Yes, exactly.
• 35:12
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:12
  Tracy: And then, and then, um, and then the ones that are there in our daily life.
• 35:16
  Tracy: And, um, and s- sometimes people take this very, very literally, and it's, for them, that's a mountain and this is a river.
• 35:25
  Tracy: And others are like, "Well, that mountain's just become my grandfather." Mm-hmm.
• 35:29
  Tracy: And then that river is my great, my great-grandmother has just arrived.
• 35:32
  Tracy: You know?
• 35:33
  Tracy: Like, that feeling.
• 35:34
  Tracy: Yes.
• 35:34
  Tracy: So, um- Yes … and I don't put, there's no boundary on it.
• 35:37
  Tracy: It's like, what is there for you in this moment?
• 35:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:40
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:40
  Tracy: And then we, we process through the whole group.
• 35:42
  Tracy: So you got five people in a group doing that exercise, and so everybody gets the opportunity to do that.
• 35:47
  Tracy: And it's- Mm … really, really, really powerful.
• 35:49
  Robi: Mm. I like that.
• 35:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:53
  Tracy: The mountains.
• 35:55
  Tracy: And you think about, you know, the plants that grew on those mountains and the waters that fed those plants and, and our ancestral, uh, medicines versus to the medicines that we have today, the ones that grow with us.
• 36:09
  Tracy: And if our ancestors were, say your ancestors were in, um, Scandinavia, as in my… And then you've got where you live now, in Australia or in Aotearoa, the different plants.
• 36:22
  Tracy: But, um, or maybe they're the same.
• 36:25
  Tracy: Maybe you're using dandelion and it grew, and that was what your ancestors were, used a lot of too.
• 36:31
  Tracy: So that connection there as well for people, recognizing that they're taking some ancestral wisdom with them through that, through the plant medicine.
• 36:39
  Tracy: Yes.
• 36:39
  Robi: Yes.
• 36:40
  Robi: Wisdom.
• 36:40
  Robi: We never really know where it's gonna go.
• 36:43
  Tracy: I know.
• 36:43
  Tracy: It's fascinating.
• 36:44
  Robi: Mm.
• 36:44
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:45
  Robi: What a rich history we have to draw on in templating in these constellation ways.
• 36:51
  Tracy: I know.
• 36:51
  Tracy: I know.
• 36:52
  Tracy: There's just… I think it's just, um, boundless.
• 36:56
  Tracy: Is that the right word?
• 36:57
  Tracy: Endless.
• 36:58
  Robi: Yes.
• 36:59
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:59
  Robi: Yes, it really is, isn't it?
• 37:01
  Robi: I had a novel thought that I haven't worked on, haven't done anything around.
• 37:05
  Robi: It was just a thought I had recently, like, oh- if we constellate some of the constellations, you know, speaking of boundless.
• 37:13
  Robi: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Robi: Um, and to see what, what that opens up.
• 37:16
  Robi: I haven't done it, but, uh, anyway, some- something to explore.
• 37:19
  Tracy: Well, that's right, because, 'cause you've got so many constellations, right?
• 37:22
  Tracy: We've just had Matariki, which you would see it as the Pleiades, the Seven Sisters.
• 37:28
  Tracy: Uh-huh.
• 37:29
  Tracy: But here we call it Matariki here, 'cause of the w- when it rises at a certain time, and it's the Maori New Year and that.
• 37:35
  Tracy: And, um, so you've got that constellation, and then you've got Orion's Belt and which we call the Pot.
• 37:41
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 37:41
  Tracy: Uh-huh.
• 37:41
  Tracy: All of those different things.
• 37:43
  Tracy: So what does that mean?
• 37:44
  Tracy: And yeah, mate, that would be fascinating.
• 37:46
  Robi: Yes.
• 37:47
  Robi: Yes.
• 37:48
  Robi: It's a lovely curiosity to play with.
• 37:50
  Tracy: Well, I look forward to hearing about it when you, uh, when you've
• 37:53
  Robi: done it.
• 37:53
  Robi: Maybe, may- maybe, maybe that'll happen in New Zealand later in the year.
• 37:56
  Robi: Who knows?
• 37:57
  Tracy: Who knows?
• 37:58
  Tracy: Well, it's a good place for it to start, right?
• 38:00
  Robi: Yes.
• 38:01
  Tracy: Now, workshops.
• 38:03
  Tracy: If someone wanted to do some work with you, how would they get in touch with you?
• 38:07
  Robi: Um, the best way would be through my website, which is- So at,
• 38:12
  Tracy: yep… Robi: which is robbiemoore.com.au.
• 38:16
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 38:17
  Tracy: And we will put that link in the,
• 38:18
  Robi: in the- Or if,
• 38:18
  Tracy: if they,
• 38:19
  Robi: if they're looking more for the psychedelic training, then that would be through groundupsychotherapy.com.au, which is, um, my training business.
• 38:29
  Robi: Um, and I keep the two separate.
• 38:31
  Tracy: So to do that training, what do they need to have?
• 38:35
  Tracy: What credentials does someone need to have to come and do that training with you?
• 38:39
  Robi: They need to be a mental health pr- uh, professional or in training on that path, and they need to have, um, dir- direct, um, experience with and a commitment to building relationships with the medicines that they're- Mm um, on their path, that they're, that they're looking to support people through.
• 39:01
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 39:02
  Tracy: I love that because, yeah.
• 39:04
  Robi: Yes.
• 39:04
  Robi: I've had lots of people come and s- uh, you know, um, o- often they're, they're more medical kind of oriented saying, "I, I, I really wanna learn how to do that.
• 39:12
  Robi: Oh, no, I could never do any of those medicines, but I wanna just do that work." Okay.
• 39:15
  Robi: Well, there's, there's clinical trainings out there to go and do that under the, um, the more medical model, but that's not for me.
• 39:24
  Robi: Mm. Yeah.
• 39:24
  Robi: I, I support… I, I'm s- interested in supporting those that build relationships with the medicines, um, to integrate that into their work.
• 39:35
  Tracy: Oh, it's so important.
• 39:37
  Robi: Yeah, I think so.
• 39:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:39
  Tracy: To understand and, um, you know, and the shamans, for example, that, um, this is my understanding, the shamans will take the medicine themselves, or take a smaller dose of the medicine when they are guiding someone through, like for example, on an Ayahuasca ceremony.
• 39:56
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Tracy: So that there is a resonance in it for them.
• 39:59
  Tracy: Um, not saying that you're doing that, but this is what a shaman would do.
• 40:03
  Robi: Yes.
• 40:04
  Robi: Well, in the circles I sit in, the shamans often take bigger doses
• 40:08
  Tracy: Oh, right.
• 40:09
  Tracy: Okay.
• 40:09
  Tracy: Yes.
• 40:09
  Tracy: Well, they're probably quite used to work that muscle a few times, right?
• 40:12
  Robi: No, that's right.
• 40:13
  Robi: If they, if they're real, you know, well-trained, uh, if- apprenticed shamans.
• 40:19
  Robi: Um- Yeah … but I think that's the key difference because the, the medical model learns about these medicines through research and through neuroscience.
• 40:28
  Robi: So they learn about something outside of themselves.
• 40:31
  Robi: Mm. And so it's cognitive, and it's out there.
• 40:34
  Robi: They know an incredible amount about these medicines, but it's all academic.
• 40:39
  Robi: Or largely, or at least driven and, and led by their academic understanding.
• 40:44
  Robi: Yeah.
• 40:45
  Robi: Whereas a more medicine-led way is, you know, th- the shamans ingest directly and build a relationship with the wisdom of that medicine, and through their own direct experience.
• 40:57
  Robi: And, and so it's that, that side of working that I support therapy around.
• 41:05
  Robi: Not to teach therapists how to be shamans, but if you understand the principle of how a shaman learns, it's through experience.
• 41:14
  Robi: Well then, if we start to analyze and be rational and think about something outside of ourselves, then we're not in coherence with what these medicines actually are.
• 41:25
  Robi: So- Mm … the training is about being in, how do we support clients to stay with their direct experience rather than to analyze, categorize, and solve their experience?
• 41:40
  Robi: Then we're working in coherence and, um, support of the medicine rather than trying to understand it and have power over it.
• 41:50
  Tracy: And for me, that brings up the awareness of, you know, well, um, therapist constellators, and those p- people that are doing this sort of work, but they aren't doing their own work.
• 42:02
  Tracy: They learn the theory of it- Yes but they never do their own work.
• 42:06
  Robi: Yes.
• 42:06
  Tracy: Um, I think there's such a difference.
• 42:08
  Tracy: It
• 42:08
  Robi: happens, hey?
• 42:09
  Robi: It
• 42:09
  Tracy: happens, yeah.
• 42:11
  Tracy: It
• 42:11
  Robi: happens.
• 42:12
  Robi: Like incredibly clever people that- Yeah … that, um, are, are not reconciled within themselves.
• 42:19
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 42:19
  Robi: Mm.
• 42:20
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 42:21
  Tracy: And unfortunately, I th- I've, I have- Observed, um, a lot in the clinical spaces of that.
• 42:29
  Tracy: Uh, yeah.
• 42:31
  Tracy: That's-
• 42:31
  Robi: Yes.
• 42:32
  Robi: Yeah, I think that the, the medical system doesn't require, um… It's probably the same over there.
• 42:37
  Robi: The medical system doesn't require any psychologists to have done their own work.
• 42:43
  Robi: Um, and, and GPs, if someone goes to the GP saying, "I'm mentally unwell," they'll send them straight to a psychologist, which is not terrible, um, you know, by itself, but only if the psychologist has done their own work.
• 43:00
  Robi: Thankfully, psychologists do do their own work, but so many of them don't realize that's important.
• 43:06
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:07
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:09
  Robi: Mm.
• 43:09
  Tracy: I th- oh, I, I mean, I, I believe that more and more people are becoming aware of that and that need to do that, 'cause it can only sustain you for so long, right?
• 43:17
  Robi: That's right.
• 43:18
  Robi: Yeah.
• 43:19
  Robi: And I think, you know, um, psychologists are incredibly clever people.
• 43:23
  Robi: You have to be incredibly clever to qualify to be in those degrees.
• 43:27
  Robi: And so to kind of attend to the emotional side makes them a powerhouse should they wanna do it.
• 43:34
  Robi: But the- Mm … the same is, is true in the constellations world.
• 43:37
  Robi: Like, you know, we all become better constellators when we have reconciled our own ancestral line, because now we know, now we know what we're doing, and we can- we can support others in doing that, too
• 43:51
  Tracy: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:53
  Tracy: And then, um, and then when the blind spots come up, we can hopefully, hopefully we recognize them and, and we're able to, um, do something about that.
• 44:04
  Robi: Yes.
• 44:05
  Robi: Well, it puts us in, like, right relationship with others, hey?
• 44:08
  Robi: Like, it puts us in the reality of we're all equal here.
• 44:14
  Tracy: Mm. We're
• 44:15
  Robi: all equal in this circle.
• 44:17
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:19
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 44:20
  Tracy: It's fascinating.
• 44:21
  Tracy: There's so much, uh- Yeah … doing good work, Robbie.
• 44:24
  Tracy: Doing great work.
• 44:25
  Robi: As are you.
• 44:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 44:26
  Robi: As are you, Tracey.
• 44:28
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 44:29
  Robi: Mm. I'm looking forward to coming and spending some time with you guys in, in November.
• 44:35
  Tracy: Oh, we look forward to having you as well, yeah, and hearing more.
• 44:38
  Tracy: Maybe you will have, uh… yeah, you'll have some more information around this.
• 44:42
  Tracy: Oh, no, you're gonna try and maybe do the constellation with us on constellations.
• 44:46
  Tracy: Constellating constellations.
• 44:47
  Tracy: See,
• 44:48
  Robi: I'm just seeding, seeding it.
• 44:49
  Robi: We'll see where and when that lands, but it'll happen somewhere.
• 44:51
  Tracy: It might be,
• 44:52
  Robi: it,
• 44:53
  Tracy: it might be a after supper, let's go and play.
• 44:56
  Robi: That's right.
• 44:56
  Tracy: Um, fantastic.
• 44:58
  Tracy: Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the listeners and the viewers before we sign off?
• 45:03
  Robi: Keep constellating.
• 45:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Tracy: It's a funny word, isn't it?
• 45:07
  Tracy: Constellating.
• 45:07
  Tracy: I did-- I have a friend asking me,"What does that even mean?" Like-
• 45:11
  Robi: Yes … constellating.
• 45:13
  Tracy: It's kind of like your own secret language.
• 45:15
  Robi: It is really, isn't it?
• 45:16
  Robi: But it's so accurate.
• 45:17
  Robi: I mean- People talk about the constellations being one of the original origins of the word, and we put ourselves in our own constellations.
• 45:25
  Robi: But there's a lot of people out there that would say that we all, at least in y- you know, i- in body, that, that, um, the dust of the stars is what pumps through our veins.
• 45:36
  Robi: And so we are the stars.
• 45:38
  Robi: And so we are, we are… it's true to say we are constellating the stars.
• 45:43
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 45:43
  Tracy: Exactly.
• 45:44
  Tracy: On
• 45:44
  Robi: that-
• 45:44
  Tracy: Love that.
• 45:45
  Tracy: Love that- Yes … imagery to end that on.
• 45:48
  Tracy: Well,
• 45:49
  Robi: as I say that- Thank you so much … now I really wanna do that constellation around constellations.
• 45:53
  Tracy: Nice.
• 45:54
  Tracy: Nice.
• 45:55
  Tracy: And I'm looking at that beautiful light that you've got behind you, and it's almost like it's, uh, creating its own constellation there for you as well.
• 46:02
  Tracy: It's on the wall.
• 46:03
  Tracy: Just on the corner of, corner of your- Yes … um, screen.
• 46:06
  Tracy: It's beautiful.
• 46:06
  Tracy: Mm. Thank you so much, Robbie, for, um, sharing your time with us, and yeah.
• 46:12
  Tracy: And, and opening- My pleasure … opening up, um, awareness for people.
• 46:16
  Tracy: You know, there are many people that have no idea about this, this pathway with constellations as well, so-
• 46:23
  Robi: Mm
• 46:23
  Tracy: yeah.
• 46:24
  Robi: My pleasure.
• 46:24
  Robi: Thank you for the invitation.
• 46:26
  Tracy: Yeah, really enjoyed it … lovely to
• 46:28
  Robi: see you again.
• 46:29
  Tracy: And you too.
• 46:29
  Tracy: And, and
• 46:30
  Robi: you know, that, that, um, that mushroom behind you really is, is very, very lovely.
• 46:35
  Robi: So, um, I invite you to, to, you know, play around with it on more Zoom sessions.
• 46:41
  Robi: Yeah.
• 46:42
  Robi: It's fantastic.
• 46:43
  Robi: Mm.
• 46:43
  Tracy: I have to find a few more.
• 46:44
  Tracy: I've, I've recently been introduced to Amarita, the mushroom Amarita.
• 46:49
  Tracy: Do you know that one?
• 46:49
  Tracy: Oh,
• 46:50
  Robi: yes.
• 46:50
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 46:51
  Tracy: The red, the red mushroom with the white spots.
• 46:54
  Robi: Yes.
• 46:54
  Tracy: And, um, that our mothers and grandmothers told us was poisonous.
• 46:58
  Tracy: You shouldn't touch that.
• 46:59
  Tracy: Don't touch that- Mm … it's poisonous.
• 47:01
  Tracy: But it's not.
• 47:02
  Tracy: It's not poisonous.
• 47:03
  Tracy: Um-
• 47:04
  Robi: Well, I believe it can be, but it doesn't have to be.
• 47:07
  Tracy: Okay.
• 47:07
  Tracy: Or I'll reframe that.
• 47:08
  Tracy: Maybe it's not poisonous when it's prepared in the correct way.
• 47:12
  Robi: Yes.
• 47:13
  Robi: Yes.
• 47:13
  Tracy: That's- Just for the listeners and the viewers just to get that
• 47:15
  Robi: correct.
• 47:16
  Robi: That's right.
• 47:16
  Robi: Yes.
• 47:17
  Robi: Yes.
• 47:17
  Robi: Any- Don't, don't take any mushroom advice from us here.
• 47:20
  Robi: That's the best way to put it.
• 47:22
  Tracy: Oh, blessings.
• 47:22
  Tracy: Thank you so much, Robbie.
• 47:24
  Robi: Many blessings to you, Tracey.
• 47:25
  Robi: Lovely to see you, and look forward to seeing you in a couple of months.
• 47:28
  Robi: We'll be speaking before then.
• 47:30
  Tracy: Yes, definitely.
• 47:31
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 47:32
  Robi: Take care.
• 47:33
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 47:35
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 47:39
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright, that's Tracey with no E, .cartwright.
• 47:46
  Tracy: And, or head over to my website, traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 47:55
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.