Latest / Skin Anarchy / Jenny Patinkin talks Derma Roller truth

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Jenny Patinkin talks Derma Roller truth · Skin Anarchy

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Five powerful five progress with your friends four player co-op with cross player cross progression on all platforms.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to level four available now, rated and premature.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have another very special guest, and I'm so excited that she made the time to come on the show.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want to welcome Jenny Patinkin uh and just introduce a little bit about her.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: She's a makeup artist, an author.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um she has her own line, which is a best-selling line.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've been featured, Jenny, in almost every reputable publication.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I really want to congratulate you on that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's the nicest introduction ever.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for having me.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's my pleasure.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess the biggest part of my story is that I'm a real late bloomer in the beauty industry.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't start until I was 40.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: I and I started with zero experience in beauty.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was a stay-at-home mom and had been for 10 years.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had had um a career in marketing um before that.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I decided to stay home with my kids.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have three daughters.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And when my oldest was 10 and my youngest was six, I decided to look into going into the beauty business.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, it was just a very organic series of twists and turns that that led me to where I am today.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I I didn't, it wasn't intentional.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of, it really like, I really think that there is um some force in the universe that led me to this career.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about what went behind this, what happened behind the scenes when you were creating your your concept for your line.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it started when I was working as a beauty expert on a website and I would shoot video content for products from other brands.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had launched my brand in a small way, but I was really focusing on building an on-camera um career.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so other brands would send me their products and they would send me all of their marketing materials and their clinical studies and all of the language and verbiage that they wanted me to use.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it occurred to me that people were using the same sets of words in the same sequences over and over and over again to the point where I became suspicious, um, where it just none of it could possibly be what they were all saying.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: And all of these products were performing differently and they looked different and they smelled different, but they all had the same marketing terminology.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, really, what was most important to me when I was developing my beauty tools was that I was giving people genuine information that wasn't a lot of fluff and spin.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I am extremely careful not to oversell what my products can do.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the other thing that came out of working as an on-camera beauty expert is that I learned a lot of the FTC regulations about what you can and cannot say, claims that you can make, ways that you can get around making those claims, but still kind of make those claims.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um it really became very important to me to give actual information and not just marketing fluff about the benefit of using an at-home photo.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: What was your um what was the you know, to the point message that you went with?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for me, I'm a big believer in gentle, conservative, easy beauty care.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I wrote a book a few years ago called Lazy Perfection, and that's really what it circled around was lazy perfection.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't think that it all needs to be as complicated as it has been portrayed as needing to be.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think there's been a dip in the last maybe year in terms of um, you know, everybody was so excited about these 16-step Korean beauty plans.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they feel great and they're very soothing, but they're really time consuming.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's not a ton of evidence that they're going to do for your skin what they promise.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, really, everything is built around this concept of lazy perfection.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes sense, and just simplification.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, for sure.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's because there's burnout in the beauty industry, especially now during COVID, where people can't get into the stores to look and feel and touch and smell, and people don't have the um disposable income that you know that they had pre-COVID to spend on a million products, and people are looking for simplicity, but actually.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I completely agree.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also it's a um conversation around uh the amount of space you're using because I know that there are a lot of people that have like a hundred products and on their shelf, and then they look and they're like, I don't even know what to use at this point.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um Right.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that was the jumping off point for me when I started with my makeup brushes.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first product that was in my assortment, and it really came out of frustration as a consumer going to buy makeup brushes and being told that I needed five different makeup brushes to do one part of it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's and it just it was it seemed excessive.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is, it's it's very excessive.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you uh mentioned your brush because that's something I really wanted to learn more about from you was you know, you got you know, you're got the Allure Award for it, and it's a vegan brush, and I really want to dive into that concept.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't, I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't understand the um like I guess the foundation of the whole vegan beauty movement.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not because I don't believe in it, but but I'm not uh uh well versed in it.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to hear um what it means to be uh a vegan beauty product or what you think that is.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's all about not having any animal product, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's makeup brushes are fur.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what they are.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: If they have natural animal hair, it's fur.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I started out with a natural hair makeup brush collection.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll tell you the big changing point for me, what really flipped a switch was I went on vacation to Africa with my family, and we were on safari and seeing all of these amazing animals just out in the wild in their own habitats, just living free.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it really triggered something in me about not wanting to use animal hair anymore, not wearing fur anymore.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I try to, you know, at least explore vegan leather options with my accessories and apparel.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that comes with its own set of issues, of course, from an environmental standpoint, but um I just couldn't be comfortable with fur anymore after that experience.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so the vegan brushes that had been out there um felt like plastic.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they are, they are a type of plastic.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're a nylon filament, most of them.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: The one that you probably have heard of the most is Taclon.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's just a name brand.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's you know, like Kleenex or whatever.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a brand name, Taclon.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for me, I didn't want to give up the sensory experience of using a natural hairbrush.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to give up the um way, the technical way that those brushes apply your makeup.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Any any top-level makeup artist will tell you that natural hair brushes are best.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I really just wanted to find a way to develop a filament for my brushes that looked and felt and performed the same way as natural hair.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's so that's that's what I did.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: It took a really long time, but that's what I did.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I found a Korean manufacturer who has a very cool technology for developing filaments that are finer than a human hair.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: They yeah, they don't have um a coating of plastic on top of them, and they are just incredibly flexible and soft.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that really, you know, that really changed the course of my business was switching away from fur to vegan.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's I I love that you shared that perspective with me because I am sitting here thinking, especially when you started talking about the technology, um, we have, you know what I mean, if we can replace uh norm organic and natural occurring insulin in our body with, you know, pharmaceuticals, I mean, we can definitely replace for an animal, you know, just animal derived ingredients, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like utilizing our our labs to the full capacity.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it's amazing that you went out there and said, I want to really find the best and optimal way to do this.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's I mean, I love seeing that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think a lot of people are doing it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the thing about a lot of um synthetic vegan makeup brushes is that they they still feel like plastic.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they've got a coating and a sheen on them.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: The makeup doesn't adhere to them well enough to distribute nicely on your skin.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I do feel really proud that my makeup brushes, like you really are we have a tagline actually that says if you didn't know they're vegan, you would never know they're vegan.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because they really look like natural hair and feel like well, in my opinion, I think that's better than natural hair.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you to expand on something that is naturally occurring in nature is the foundation of science, in my opinion.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like we gain our uh our insight and our you know, our motivation from what naturally occurs on our planet.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So to not take that step and to not optimize it and and you know find ways to be more resourceful, I think that's um I don't know, I I find that to be a little irresponsible.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think this is amazing.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I I love your the way that you're doing this, but I really want to hear about your journey as a makeup artist because I'm sure all of that experience really fed into all of um all of your vision and you know what you wanted to come out with.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So could you share that with us, just your makeup background?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, definitely.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as I was saying earlier, I didn't start until I was 40.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I did some training here in Chicago.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I did private one-on-one training with a very well-known makeup artist, and then I continued my training in London, and I got signed by a big international agency about three weeks later and just jumped in and started working.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt very out of my element because when you're 40 and you're starting in any new career, everybody is young.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was working with I was working with models who were 12, 13, 14 years old.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, my oldest daughter at the time was 11.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I bet that was awesome for her.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it well, it was, I'll tell you, it it became uncomfortable for me very quickly because her friends were starting to model a couple of them, and I lived in fear of being booked on a shoot with one of my daughter's friends because I just I had a hard time as a mom getting comfortable with the way that the photographers worked with these very young models.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there are many, many, many very professional photographers out there.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly encountered a few who were viewing these young girls as commodities and not as human beings.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I just couldn't get comfortable with it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I did quite a bit of um commercial work and editorial work and celebrity work.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I still do celebrity work if if somebody is, you know, if there's a cover shoot or if there is an event or something here in Chicago.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, that's not happening these days, but um, but what really um sparked a passion for me was teaching people how to apply makeup, and that's where I focused my business.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So a few years after I had been, you know, working this very intense schedule with all of these professional artistry shoots, I opened up a business called um Lazy Perfection Beauty School.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: At the time it was Dollface Beauty School, it's now Lazy Perfection Beauty School.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was working with a lot of women like me who were in their early 40s and who looked were looking in the mirror and thinking to themselves, hmm, something is different about my face.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can't exactly put my finger on what, but what I'm doing with my makeup isn't working anymore.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really where I honed the lazy perfection aesthetic and approach because I'm not only a firm believer in simplicity, including in your makeup application, um, but also in wearing less makeup as you get older.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where everything started to develop.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's where the impetus for developing a line of makeup brushes came from.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because I at the time it was this big YouTube surge of makeup artists and beauty experts who were doing this very full coverage.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Instagram makeup log.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: The Instagram, and you know, not to take away from the artistry of it, it's incredibly technical and artistic.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, but it wasn't, it wasn't my style, and it certainly didn't fit into the whole lazy perfection philosophy or aesthetic.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I developed beauty tools that were going to give me and by extension, my customers the application that they wanted.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I just found that more people wanted to wear less makeup than the reverse.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um so, you know, from there it led me to this opportunity, as I was mentioning before, about being an on-camera beauty expert.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was getting a ton of exposure from that, which led me to getting a book deal.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, I started doing more um seminars and masterclasses and speaking gigs, and really, you know, getting out there and kind of preaching the lazy perfection word, yeah, and talking about anti-aging, and to bring it back to what we were talking about earlier in the conversation, getting back to this message that simplicity is great, and you don't need to buy into all of the confusing marketing messages that are out there.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so great to hear you say the idea of simple makeup, um, quick, you know what I mean, a quick makeup routine because I'm not gonna lie to you, you know, I've been in a professional track my whole adult career.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I at no point had the time to put on a lot of makeup, but I was always a huge makeup enthusiast.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I would look at, like, you know, we just talked about the Instagram makeup and the models, and I was just like, oh, this looks so pretty, you know, I love it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And as much as I'd like to go out there with the fake lashes and the you know what I mean, the whole up thing, updo, I can't wear that into a hospital, you know what I mean?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no way for me to incorporate that into my um my career and my life.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it was almost like all of these products were coming out, and I wanted so much to invest in them, but it's like I'm never gonna use it, you know.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, that the the whole eco-consciousness part of my business really came out of this idea that the beauty industry is terribly wasteful.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it is terribly wasteful.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we are as women, we are so susceptible to advertising and to the suggestion that we can look better if we only buy a certain product, or we can feel younger or more glamorous, or whatever it is, if only we buy another product.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: But we're buying more and more and more, and we're buying products that you know are overpackaged and that don't take into account the impact on the earth.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that's sort of been my focus in the development of the rest of my assortment has been on where I can get to the intersection of luxury, simplicity, and eco-awareness.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love I love that.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's an amazing combination.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's a and it's very hard to achieve.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I truly commend you.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um Thank you.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I you know, and it's going back to that point about you know, women and and the statistics you shared about how a lot of women don't want the, you know, the heavy makeup look, you know, I have so many examples in my mind of women that really do follow that, but they'll still buy into the the brand.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: They derma rolling.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to know, I want to know what you uh like what research you found before you launched that specific product.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because there's a lot of conversation right now around like microneedling and the use of derma rollers to help with what you just said, the absorption of products.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think that everything should, you know what I mean?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think everything should be like a a black and white thing.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we should kind of embrace the gray areas in skincare right now.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um when I saw that, I I wanted to talk to you about it because it's something I've always wanted to incorporate into my routine.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, let me say that I do not take lightly the idea of providing an at-home tool that makes little punctures in the skin.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you do hear horror stories about people who have inflammation in their skin as a consequence of using an at-home dermal rolling or microneedling tool.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: That typically comes from um purchasing, like on Amazon or or somewhere like that, a tool that's got needles that are not really safe, needles of a length that are not really safe for at-home use, and using a rolling technique that can cause micro-tears in the skin.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, that's going to lead to irritation and inflammation.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: I did work with a dermatologist and a medical aesthetician on how to best approach the design of my derma roller and also on how to instruct people to use it in a gentle, conservative way.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this goes back to what I was saying about the messaging with my products.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to kid anybody.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a product that I am promoting as being a collagen-boosting tool.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's very important.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's very important for people to know that in order to trigger the type of collagen that's going to support your skin, you need to get down several layers deep.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to be responsible for somebody putting a needle that deep in their face.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: My my needles are incredibly short.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're probably the shortest on the market.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're just 0.2 millimeters.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And to put that in context, that's the same length as two sheets of paper.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: When you put two sheets of paper together and you look at it from the side, that's how long the needles are on my roller.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're tiny.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um this is just making a tiny painless microchannel in the stratum corneum, right at the surface of the skin, that just allows a slightly deeper cellular access, and it allows the slightly larger molecules in the skincare products that you already know and love to just get in a little bit deeper.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that makes total sense scientifically.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you know, I'm glad to hear you say that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's gratifying.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because uh you're not trying to get into the dermal layers.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're not trying to go that deep because you're that's where all of the molecular pathways take place.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't want to mess with you.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, no, no.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and you your skin needs to be numb to do that.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: You need medical follow up, medical aesthetician, or uh uh a a doctor, but certainly, you know, not me, Jenny Petinkin, beauty expert.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm not You know?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I also I also tell people that there is anecdotal evidence to support the idea that possibly you can thicken the surface of your skin by using this very short needle derma roller.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no clinical evidence.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't make that claim when I'm marketing my product.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's not written on any of my packaging.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, you know, anything that I discuss in any sort of official capacity.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I discuss it with people the same way I'm discussing it with you.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's anecdotal evidence.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of anecdotal evidence.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: But because there's not a clinical study to support it, I can't, I can't make that claim.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can't promise you that's going to happen to your skin.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to realize that correlation does not equate to causation.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the in these studies, because a lot of times people want to say, you know, well, the study said that it's, you know, this and this, but it's like, that's not the answer.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot more information that needs to be out there in the in the world of just, you know, medical science, in especially in the field of dermatology.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's almost for me, it's like a it's like a you know, double-edged sword because everyone wants to jump on this wagon of, well, why isn't everything supported by science?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like, well, there's it's just it's happening, you know, like this is happening.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and the other thing is that these myths sort of perpetuate themselves because they get picked up in one media publication, and then all of a sudden bloggers and influencers and YouTubers are all perpetuating this myth that you know somebody may have incorporated into their marketing materials.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll give you the perfect example.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: There is this pervasive myth that using a face roller, not a dermal roller, just a face roller, can help with product absorption.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just impossible because you cannot force a large molecule into your skin unless there is a pathway for that molecule to get through.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I I just I spend so much time telling people it's like I agree.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, the what you said was so perfect.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: The mic, it's channels.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're creating channels with your device, which is a much more logical approach.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because, right, you know, for example, we talk about in dermatology, you know, aquaporns and different membrane channels that are, you know, they're allowing things in and out based on an electrical gradient that naturally occurs in our body.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we can't manipulate that, you know, and I think that's what people need to understand is that you can't go into the the basics of of you know the human body and alter it.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to work with it.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: So when what you said, I really loved is that you're helping creating some channels.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a lot better than saying, well, we're boosting collagen production, because right there's no way, like you said, to do that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and then and then the conversation also about how speeding up your circulation can help boost product absorption.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you would have to create a lot of heat in your skin in order for that to happen.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And there's just no way that it's possible using a manual face roller in your bathroom at home.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think about the whole lymphatic drainage argument around it?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I have seen it with my own eyes.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Again, there's no clinical studies on this, um, but this is a practice that's been around for thousands of years.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Cleopatra used to use face rollers and gua shaw tools.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I always tell my customers that if you roll half of your face and then compare it to the other half, within seconds you will see the difference.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to me, it there is a tangible, visible, instant difference because you have moved those fluids to the lymphatic drainage points.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I just released a body roller tool.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also believe in the benefits of lymphatic drainage on the arms and the legs.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: The lymph system is very close up under the surface of the skin.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you don't need a ton of pressure when you're rolling to move that lymph fluid.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, it it uh to a certain extent drives me crazy to see people uh on social media in particular like jamming a roller up and down their face, pressing moving their skin all over the place.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I mean, and that's what I was saying before.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my collagen is breaking down every second of every day.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to do anything to accelerate it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of like being rough on your skin like that can certainly accelerate.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course it can.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think really the conversation is, you know, the the center point of this these conversations needs to become inflammation of the skin.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because almost every um pathology that I've encountered in the medical research out there, you know, just reading the papers, it's really fundamentally an inflammatory process that you're trying to combat, you know.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um I want to know more about this masterclass.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, can you tell us about the masterclass with Allison McNamara and um what your vision is in that class?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna be talking about a home beauty routine, and we're gonna be pairing uh some of my beauty tools with some of her beauty oils.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, really to talk about how you can get the most out of your at-home beauty routine.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's very interesting.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a you guys are basing it on like a skincare and makeup uh combination?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: No con no makeup.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna start out talking about using an oil to remove your makeup, and we're gonna pair that with my uh reusable organic bamboo cosmetic rounds.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a couple of um techniques that I'm gonna share about how to remove your makeup without tugging on the delicate skin on your face.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's a hot button issue for me because as we age, our collagen and our elastin is weakening just, you know, just from being alive.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so many people are very aggressive when they are touching tools or towels or other products to their face.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm gonna share a couple of little techniques for how you can avoid tugging on that delicate skin.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we're going to talk about derma rolling.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's one of my best-selling tools is an at-home derma roller.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, thank you.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then we're going to talk about how uh using a derma roller can enhance the absorption and performance of the product that you apply afterwards.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Saying about, you know, just people seeing people just going crazy with the rollers on their skin.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I agree with you.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to talk more about that because, you know, like we were talking about, the inf inflammatory process that they're inducing is really what's giving rollers a bad name, in my opinion.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's interesting.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, I just think that there are too many grandiose claims about what a roller can do for you.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's part of the problem.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, the market is incredibly saturated with rollers right now.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and that also is negatively impacting the public opinion of their, you know, how beneficial they are for your skin.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm really, I am a firm, firm, firm believer.
• 30:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm skeptical about everything, having worked for all those years with, you know, prescripted marketing, blah, blah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I really, I really have totally bought into the benefit of using a face roller and a gua sha tool.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just I want to congratulate you on, you know, all of your accomplishments, and then just, you know, wish you the best of luck with this masterclass coming up.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I thank you.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to see you and Allison uh collab.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just Allison's number one fan at this point.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love her work.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I wish you guys the best and I am so thankful again for you coming on the show.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me, and we'll keep an eye out for you on that masterclass, December 6th.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's 5 p.m.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Eastern time.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm I'm gonna join.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, everyone out there.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh, please, you know, f I'll give you guys more information about the masterclass.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for you guys to uh check it out as well with me.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you again, Jenny.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll talk to you guys next time.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
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• 32:34
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