Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Lindsay Rhodes reacts to NFL Draft, Utes get 2 OL drafted in the 1st round, Rams taking Ty Simpson in round 1 + more

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Lindsay Rhodes reacts to NFL Draft, Utes get 2 OL drafted in the 1st round, Rams taking Ty Simpson in round 1 + more · The Sean O'Connell Show

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  Speaker 1: Your two's a Sean O'Connell show for the Murdoch Chevrolet
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Studio of ESPNE. Welcome back to the Sean O'Connell Show
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: on a Monday and post NFL Draft Monday, we're lucky
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  Speaker 1: enough to welcome in Lindsay Rhoads from summer Sports. Her
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  Speaker 1: and the rest of the crew working hard on draft
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  Speaker 1: and draft analysis all through the weekend, and she's still
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  Speaker 1: kind of enough to give us a few minutes here
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  Speaker 1: on a Monday. Lindsay, welcome back to the show. How
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  Speaker 1: are you hey?
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  Speaker 2: I'm great.
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  Speaker 1: How are you? I'm doing awesome? So you know, did
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  Speaker 1: you take a nice deep breath on Sunday and give yourself,
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  Speaker 1: give yourself a chance to, I guess, get away from
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  Speaker 1: all this draft stuff that occupied everyone's life for three days.
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  Speaker 2: I tell you what it's. I'm excited to no longer
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  Speaker 2: be asking the questions I feel like I should, like
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  Speaker 2: three months just asking the same questions over and over
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  Speaker 2: again in my head and had definitely overthought it by
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  Speaker 2: the end, and like that last week prior to the draft,
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  Speaker 2: it couldn't get here fast enough. So I'm happy that
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  Speaker 2: it's now passed and we can start evaluating with the
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  Speaker 2: different you know what the moves mean for the different teams,
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  Speaker 2: and we've essentially got our rosters. So that's a fun pivot.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Because you used the word overthought. One of the
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  Speaker 1: things that interests me most in the NFL Draft is
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  Speaker 1: when I see a pick and I'm like, oh, they
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  Speaker 1: overthought that one, or that one might have been the
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  Speaker 1: result of some overthinking. Was there any pick, doesn't even
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  Speaker 1: matter what round where you thought, or maybe it's not
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  Speaker 1: a pick. Maybe a team skipped on somebody they really
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  Speaker 1: needed because maybe they were overthinking it. Did anything jump
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  Speaker 1: out for you that would be in your mind overthinking?
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  Speaker 2: To be honest. It's also it's all such a blur
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  Speaker 2: at this point in terms of trying to figure out
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  Speaker 2: teams strategies because we're trying to look at all thirty
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  Speaker 2: two and obviously there's a high emphasis on the guys
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  Speaker 2: that are going like the top three rounds, and so
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  Speaker 2: I'm still going a team by team to try and
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  Speaker 2: figure out if they were able to Cause there were
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  Speaker 2: definitely picks in the first round where I went. I
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  Speaker 2: did not think that that was going to happen, or
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  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have done that, But then what you have
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  Speaker 2: to do on the back end is sort of look
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  Speaker 2: at now once they put all seven rounds together, and
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  Speaker 2: then even sometimes there were some undrafted free agents, Like
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  Speaker 2: there were some guys that hit free agency that we
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  Speaker 2: really liked and had really high scores on as super Sports,
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  Speaker 2: and so sometimes you're able to address the position you
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  Speaker 2: thought that they were going to get early on with
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  Speaker 2: somebody a little bit later and maybe get some value
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  Speaker 2: at some of those positions. There was a draft that
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  Speaker 2: I and I know this is definitely not what you asked,
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  Speaker 2: but like the Browns ability to maneuver the board in
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  Speaker 2: this draft when you look at the whole class is
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  Speaker 2: kind of fascinating. They got so many good players according
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  Speaker 2: to our grades at SUMER, which are made up by
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  Speaker 2: former NFL evaluators that are longtime NFL scouts who provide
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  Speaker 2: US scouting reports that are very similar to the kind
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  Speaker 2: that they would have provided for teams. Plus we have
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  Speaker 2: a mix of analytics and can kind of put all
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  Speaker 2: that information together to come up with our own version
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  Speaker 2: of a big board that kind of thing, and the
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  Speaker 2: Browns just crushed it. I think that they may be
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  Speaker 2: walked away with potentially six starters and so the depth
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  Speaker 2: of their draft is one that I think when you
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  Speaker 2: start to look at it, you might like if Denzel Boston,
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  Speaker 2: if somebody had taken him earlier and that had been
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  Speaker 2: the only wide receiver that they've added to their room,
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  Speaker 2: then I would have been a little bit wary of
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  Speaker 2: that because I think there's a contested catch element that
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  Speaker 2: in my brain goes a little bit sounds a little
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  Speaker 2: bit too close to like Keon Coleman's profile coming out,
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  Speaker 2: which has not worked out yet for the Bills, And
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  Speaker 2: so I have some concerns about Denzel Boston. But then
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  Speaker 2: when you put him in a room where you're like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: this is the second wide receiver that we're adding, we're
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  Speaker 2: also adding a casey conception on who's a very different
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  Speaker 2: kind of wide receiver. And now you put them all
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  Speaker 2: together in a group of wide receivers, and now I
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  Speaker 2: really like what they were able to do from a
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  Speaker 2: value standpoint. So it's kind of a bigger process for
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  Speaker 2: me where I try and limit those initial reactions and
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  Speaker 2: then kind of look at the class as a whole
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  Speaker 2: and whether they were able to accomplish the things that
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  Speaker 2: we think that they needed to.
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  Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned the Browns because obviously the first
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  Speaker 1: pick for the Browns draft is a guy that we
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  Speaker 1: are very familiar with here in Utah. And they took
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  Speaker 1: Spencer Fondo, not at six where they initially held the pick.
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  Speaker 1: They dropped down to nine and still got the guy
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  Speaker 1: they wanted there. And the interesting thing for me was
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  Speaker 1: if you watch, you know the conversations they were having
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  Speaker 1: with them, and I get it. It's just a coach
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  Speaker 1: calling and saying, hey, we're going to draft you. They said,
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  Speaker 1: we think you're a foundational left tackle for us. Cool
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  Speaker 1: and it's three years since he's played left tackle? What, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: should I read too much into that? Should not read
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  Speaker 1: anything into that, because that's a transition. He's an amazing athlete,
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  Speaker 1: he's a great player. He's a wonderful, hardworking person. But
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  Speaker 1: that's a big that's a big ask.
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  Speaker 2: It very much is. I think that the Browns are
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  Speaker 2: a good place for him to go for the questions
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  Speaker 2: that our scouts had attached to his profile. And there's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of upside by the way, but I think
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  Speaker 2: that our scouts had concerns about, like the quest he
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  Speaker 2: was the guy amongst the offensive tackles that our scouts
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  Speaker 2: consistently were like, I can't quite totally put my finger
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  Speaker 2: on him. And part of it is what you said
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  Speaker 2: that you'd played right tackle for his last few years
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  Speaker 2: at Utah and and you know, so is he an
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  Speaker 2: NFL left tackle. We haven't really seen him do that
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  Speaker 2: consistently at a high level. We haven't seen him past
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  Speaker 2: protect at a high level consistently because there were such
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  Speaker 2: a ground based attack and then there there were we
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  Speaker 2: had once scout use the word tweener to describe him
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  Speaker 2: because just from a high standpoint, he wasn't sure if
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  Speaker 2: he was long enough to play offensive tackle, but he
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  Speaker 2: wasn't sure that he had the density to anchor on
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  Speaker 2: the inside. And to their questions about where he plays,
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  Speaker 2: but Mike Mayock pointed out that at the Senior Bowl
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  Speaker 2: they kicked him into to the center and had him
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  Speaker 2: taking snaps at center, and he was impressed with his
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  Speaker 2: ability to do that and thought that he might actually
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  Speaker 2: be a gad that ends up at center in the NFL.
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  Speaker 2: I guess this is a long winded way of saying
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  Speaker 2: that there's a lot of versatility attached to him. Now
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  Speaker 2: if you're going to take him at nine, which I
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  Speaker 2: very much like to trade back and still able to
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  Speaker 2: get him. That makes me like the pick even more
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  Speaker 2: than I would have at six, which sounds silly because
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  Speaker 2: it's just three picks, but the fact that they maneuvered
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  Speaker 2: the board and were able to add picks in order
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  Speaker 2: to get a guy that they wanted but in a
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  Speaker 2: slightly better spot, and they improved their lot in terms
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  Speaker 2: of their ability to pick up even more players and
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  Speaker 2: take more shots. I just think that the whole thing
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  Speaker 2: was really smart. He goes to an offensive line that
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  Speaker 2: really needs a lot of upgrades, frankly, and so you
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  Speaker 2: ideally want that to be at offensive tackle. The fact
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  Speaker 2: that they say that they see him as a left
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  Speaker 2: tackle is a really good sign. Even if he turns
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  Speaker 2: out not to be a left tackle in the NFL,
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  Speaker 2: there are so many different areas where he could potentially
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  Speaker 2: play for them, And you know, if he turns out
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  Speaker 2: to be a long term Pro Bowl, All Pro caliber
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  Speaker 2: guard or even center, if that's where they end up
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  Speaker 2: putting him, that's not where you would have drafted him
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  Speaker 2: at nine if that's what it ends up being. But
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  Speaker 2: the goal is to make the team better with your pick,
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  Speaker 2: and so you give yourself a wide variance, Like I
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  Speaker 2: think that the floor maybe is raised a little bit
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  Speaker 2: more when you draft study like him in that spot
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  Speaker 2: and he goes to a team where it's not just like, Hey,
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  Speaker 2: we just need a left tackle and that's all we
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  Speaker 2: need and that's going to put us over the top
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  Speaker 2: and everything else we've got stacked. I think that the
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  Speaker 2: Browns could use help in a lot of different positions.
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  Speaker 2: So if he is good and he can get on
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  Speaker 2: the field, that will help them. And so I like
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  Speaker 2: that pick a lot for them.
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  Speaker 1: I'm a Niners fan, and the Niners didn't get any
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  Speaker 1: guys in this draft with local connections in terms of
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  Speaker 1: their college ball. I liked theft, but one thing that
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  Speaker 1: really stuck out for me was how many guys they
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  Speaker 1: drafted with six years of college football experience. Oh and
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  Speaker 1: I'm curious if that's a by design thing, if you
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  Speaker 1: in the scouting departments, if anyone said anything about, like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we really like these guys that have extra years are
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  Speaker 1: more developed, or I mean, we've always talked about that
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  Speaker 1: as like a bad thing in the NFL draft, Like
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  Speaker 1: a he's long in the tooth, he's already ad twenty
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  Speaker 1: four year old by the time you get him. The
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  Speaker 1: Niners drafted four guys with six years, one guy with
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  Speaker 1: five years, and a couple of guys that played all
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  Speaker 1: four years, and that surprised me. What do you make
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  Speaker 1: of it?
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  Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly what to make of it, because
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  Speaker 2: they think from a numbers standpoint, you do want to
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  Speaker 2: get some guys that you're getting earlier in their career
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  Speaker 2: because the goal is to maximize the value of the pick. Obviously,
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  Speaker 2: you want players that can hit the field and that
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  Speaker 2: can compete right away, and you want to add starters
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  Speaker 2: up and down the board as many as you can
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  Speaker 2: is ideal, but you also want to maximize the value
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  Speaker 2: that you're getting for them at their pick on their contract.
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  Speaker 2: And then you want to be thinking about guys that
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  Speaker 2: you can get to play for you for the longest
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  Speaker 2: duration of time. And so if you're picking a bunch
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  Speaker 2: of guys that are already older, then you're just limiting
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: the amount of time that they will be able to
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  Speaker 2: play at a high level for your organization. So I
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  Speaker 2: think I see it a little bit more like you do,
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  Speaker 2: but it might also be you know, the Niners have
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of holes, more than we're used to seeing them. Have,
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  Speaker 2: but at the positions that they don't have holes, they
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  Speaker 2: have some high end players, So they're in a weird
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  Speaker 2: position of being like ready to compete if they can
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: fill those holes. You know, you can go make a
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: run if you're the Niners, But if you don't fill
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: those holes capably, then you kind of might be screwed.
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  Speaker 2: And so they might just be looking for guys that
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  Speaker 2: are high end producers where they feel really confident they
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: know where the floor is. Like if you produce consistently
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: for a period of time in college, then from a
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  Speaker 2: data standpoint, there's less There might be less upside, there
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  Speaker 2: might be less room for growth, but there might be
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  Speaker 2: more of a we know what we're getting, And it
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  Speaker 2: might be that the Niners are a team that's looking
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  Speaker 2: specifically for that.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of talk about body language, facial expression.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Who made this choice around the ty Simpson pick? And
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  Speaker 1: I know it's already been talked about a lot, and
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  Speaker 1: you've probably already talked about it a lot. But where
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  Speaker 1: do you net out on the rams using pick number
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  Speaker 1: thirteen for a quarterback that had fifteen college starts?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was surprised by it, and I am a
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  Speaker 2: huge fan of the Rams organization, the way that their
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: front office works. This is the one them and Howie Roseman.
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  Speaker 2: These are like the two organizations that I feel the
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  Speaker 2: least comfortable ever questioning in any way, shape or form,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: because everything that they do seems for work. So they
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  Speaker 2: clearly have a really solid process in place. What it
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: tells me is that people in that organization think that
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  Speaker 2: ty Simpson is the quarterback of the future. And that
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: was the big question attached to ty Simpson for the
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: whole draft was you know, he only had the fifteen
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  Speaker 2: starts and there is and the red flag that you
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  Speaker 2: attached to that is that there is a long history
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  Speaker 2: of guys quarterbacks in particular, who coming to the NFL
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  Speaker 2: with one year of starting experience and we get excited
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: about them and then it just doesn't work out. And
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: this is like the opposite of the Niners conversation we
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: just had, right Like, there's just not that much data
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and so you're going off a small sample size. We
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: can think of there were quarterbacks in this draft who,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: if we'd taken them after last year, they were being
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: discussed as first rounders, and then they came back and
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: then they didn't have the years that we were expecting
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  Speaker 2: them to have and then they plummeted in the draft,
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  Speaker 2: So that one year of experience is kind of a
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  Speaker 2: scary proposition. Less need is somebody who I know, it
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  Speaker 2: had been reported, was one of the general managers that
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: advised his family that he was going to be a
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: first rounder, that he liked his game. I would imagine
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  Speaker 2: that they see him as the heir apparent. You do
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  Speaker 2: not take somebody at thirteen if you're just throwing a
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: dart at your dartboard, which is what I kind of
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: thought most teams would be doing with regards to ty Simpson,
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  Speaker 2: just because the evaluators that I talked to were like,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: we really like him, but there was always a butt
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  Speaker 2: attached to it. And sometimes the butt was just fifteen starts,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: you know, and we just don't have that much of
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: a sample size, and so you don't know, And that's
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  Speaker 2: scary proposition. But I love the fact that he's able
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: to go to a team where he's going to sit
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  Speaker 2: on the bench for a year in a really healthy
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  Speaker 2: organization with a quarterback and a coach that's going to
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  Speaker 2: really be able to develop him. That is the one
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: thing that this league talks about all the time is
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: developing guys and then it just doesn't happen. I roll
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: my eyes every time we talk about a quarterback whose
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: skill set and upside and athleticism and stuff like that.
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  Speaker 2: There's always like an athletic quarterback like Milroe last year
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  Speaker 2: is a perfect example where you go, oh yeah, and
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  Speaker 2: then draft him in the third round and develop him
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: because he does need work. But man, once he develops,
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  Speaker 2: it's going to be exciting. They don't get developed, They
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  Speaker 2: just don't. These coaches don't have time. So he does
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  Speaker 2: go to the perfect situation there where he can afford
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: to sit without any pressure for one year and then
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: kind of do what the Packers have always done, like
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  Speaker 2: get that guy early and then we get the best
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: version of them once they are able to hit the field.
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  Speaker 2: So I like, I love the idea of getting a
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  Speaker 2: quarterback before you need one. That is the perfect situation.
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  Speaker 2: The only thing that surprised me about them taking him
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  Speaker 2: at thirteen in that sense is that the guys that
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: they passed up and so if you are trying to
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: make a run in a Super Bowl this year, Sick
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: inarguably are and have the horses to do it. Maybe
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: don't even need the thirteenth pick in order to do that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: They're so healthy as an organization. But the guys that
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  Speaker 2: they passed up on, I was like, Ooh, that guy
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: would be real fun to have right now. You know,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: they're passing on like oftentive tackles. They I'm mineral freeling.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: They passed on MacKaye Lemon, who I thought would have
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: been just fascinating in that organization, and so that was
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  Speaker 2: really the thing for me was just what they were
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: passing on. But in terms of process, taking a quarterback
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  Speaker 2: that you think has the tools to be your franchise
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: quarterback and letting him sit for a year, that's best practice.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Our last thing before I let you go, and I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Have you settled on a favorite pick
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: or a favorite fit, like the marriage that you think
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: is going to work out best between player and organization.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I really like, Gosh, there's so many of them. To
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: be honest with you, I'm a huge mckaye Lemon fan
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: from a tape standpoint, and I think that there must
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: be some. You know, it's like where there's smoke, there's
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: fire kind of a thing. Like we heard some stuff
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: after the combine about his meetings not going well. I
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: am likely to believe that that was actually the case,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that some thing went wrong with his interactions with teams,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: because what we saw on tape was a wide receiver
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: who just from a pure evaluation standpoint was a game changer.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: You put the ball in his hands and he picks
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  Speaker 2: up yards, turns into a running back. Is just an
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  Speaker 2: exciting guy. And the type of versatility to go inside
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  Speaker 2: out and what a creative offensive mind can do with
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  Speaker 2: that type of wide receiver, I think is just fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: So the fact that he falls to the Eagles, and
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: then frankly that Stours also was available to them at
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: fifty four, My colleagues and I have had a lot
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: of back and forth about what the Jets did versus
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: what the Eagles did, just from a comparison standpoint, because
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: they both took a high end wide receiver and a
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: high end tight end and frankly similar wide receivers to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: a degree, right the guys who could go inside out.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: The Jets took Sidik and Omar Cooper Junior, and I
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: really I like that combo for them when you put
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: it into the whole package of an offense. But then
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: you also have the Eagles who took Lemon and Sotours.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: We had Tours with the same grade as Kenyon Sideik,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and they have very different strength, like literally opposite skill strength.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Sadiq is a better blocker, Tours is a better pass catcher.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Sadiq's athleticism is off the charts, so you kind of
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: have to respect him in a lot of ways when
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: you have him running arount. But I just think that
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  Speaker 2: that combo of those two guys is such a fascinating
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: example of drafting and prioritization because I think that I
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: think those will be interesting ones to compare as the
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: years go on, like which combo ended up better, because
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I really like all four of those players. And then
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the other guy that I really like to go back
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to the Browns is Casey Concepcion. And I know I'm
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: highlighting a lot of offensive playmakers here wide receivers, but
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: he had very high end production. He's very versatile, top
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: fifteen per sent targets to every depth of the field.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: He had a versatile route tree, great with the ball
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: in his hands, averaged seven point two yards after the
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: catch per catch. Was a guy who actually played more
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: outside with a sixty five percent wide receiver ratio thirty
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: five percent. Slot will probably flip that in the NFL.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: But his air yard chair is target share, his yards
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: per route run, all of these numbers that are really
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: sticky at the wide receiver position were incredibly high. So
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I think he was a good value pick for the
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Browns and somebody that they should be very excited about.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Lindsay, appreciate you giving us some time. Also love that
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: you guys brought Mike Mayock back into the draft analysis thing.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I think he's so good, so well done on that,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: and appreciate the work that all of you do over
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: there at SUMER Sports here a great resource for us.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Appreciate the chat Lindsay Rhoads from Suomer Sports. By the way,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have the same like as ESPN from like
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a brand recognition standpoint, but if you appreciate the the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: overlap of statistical analysis, game tape study, that kind of thing,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: SUMER does a wonderful, wonderful job of it. And they
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: did bring Mike Mayock back on the draft anadlest stuff
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: and their their draft show was awesome. So big thanks
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to Lindsay for swinging by. Gotta take a quick one. Here,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: we come back with the Hot Lunch featuring some Utah
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Mammoth sound bites as we get you ready for Game
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: two at the Delta Center tonight. Devin Jackson's gonna join
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: us at noon and we'll talk more draft with him.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. It's the Sean O'Connell Show on ESPN
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: seven hundred at ninety two one FM.