Latest / Critically Acclaimed Network / We've Got Mail #193 | Critically Acclaimed: The Home Game?!

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We've Got Mail #193 | Critically Acclaimed: The Home Game?! · Critically Acclaimed Network

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, everybody, and welcome back to We've Got Mail!
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the podcast where you can control the conversation right here at the critically claimed network.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what that intro was.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: My name is William B. Beany.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am a film critic, I write for the rap, and everybody calls me Bibbs.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... my name is witty cybald i tomb a film critic i can do it to slash film and uh... and that's it that's all i do okay i can do it to slash film you know what right i i guess for the purposes of this podcast you can call me rock my stream of cool you know rock my stream of cool you're enough you're good enough you're smart enough and gosh darned people thank you
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's sweet of you to say yours weed.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is our podcast where we where we answered your your letters and your emails and you stuff.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how that works.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here our works is very, very simple.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You send us an email our email address is letters it critically claimed.net.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That took me too long with what is our PO box.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you want to send us an actual physical letter, send it to the critically acclaimed network, PO Box 641565 Los Angeles, California, 9 0064, you can do that any time.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we strongly encourage you to do so, and we haven't done one of these in a hot little minute, so I'm sure we have a lot to catch up on, Whitney, why don't you take it away?
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here we got a letter from Daniel.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Daniel.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Daniel.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it says dear willing to be on the end with me, Sybel.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any good fun or interesting ideas for double features of movies that involve the same event or take place around the same time?
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some examples, the post and all the presidents men, September 5 in Munich, darkest hour in Dunkirk, Saturday night, and the first episode of SNL.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's not a film, but still interesting.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Life of Brian and the book of Clarence.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, it would be an interesting fun one.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know there are probably a lot of warm movies.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You could do this kind of double feature with, but I'm hoping to get your vast movie knowledge.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You will have some good ideas outside of war movies.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the great podcast to keep up the good work and Daniel.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fun question, and Whitney and I are big big fans of Double Futures, we believe that Double Futures are not only fun, to watch their fun to program because you get to sort of comment on the topic itself and the quality of each movie and the way each movie tackles each project.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: For example, one good one that I would highly recommend would be to watch
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... which was uh... overshadowed by his movie jfk but is an incredible production with amazing performances from anthony hopkins john Allen uh... and is uh... uh... it's all overstone when he was still at the height of his powers and he was obviously yeah dealing with nixon's whole political career and of course the collapse into a watergate uh... and uh... as a double feature and of the obvious answer uh... might be all the president's men but nope i'm gonna recommend you watch dick
• 3:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dick is a is a somewhat overlooked comedy from I think 1999 starring Michelle Williams and Kirsten Dunst as teenagers who become White House interns and they're kind of
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Daffy teenagers, very silly young people who have no idea what they've stumbled into, and end up a feeding Nixon a lot of pot brownies, and b accidentally becoming deep throat, which at the time this movie was made, the identity of deep throat was not common knowledge.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So both films obviously take a hard stance that Nixon was, even if he was complicated, a real piece of shit.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they do it in a much more, very totally different ways, and so that's the first one that comes to mind.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm trying to think, yeah, I'm a big fan, a huge advocate, in fact, of the idea of programming as a form of criticism.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: They, you've, putting tuned movies next to each other, you're kind of commenting on what each one is saying about the other, and if that's the case,
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would want to watch.
• 4:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, I really want to watch it because I hate the movie, but the Dennis Quaid film, Reagan.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: The biopic of Ronald Reagan.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to see that playing back-to-back with John Carpenter's day live.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, that's...
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: because those two movies are most certainly commenting on one another, they live as a deep condemnation of the sort of crass commercialism and a weird insidious political power of
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just everything at the time.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this idea that money and advertising was all part of this like insidious Alien plot and everything that they're talking about in that movie is the stuff that was coming into being because of Reagan's policies.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So watching this one movie which is this completely disgusting
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: a hegeography of Reagan set a set right next to all of the horrors that his policies wrought would be fantastic to watch I'd want to go on I was thinking in the sort of the western vein specifically films about so-called heroes
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: of the civil war.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I say so called because the characters in these movies would argue with maybe that they were not heroes.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Kevin Costner's dances with wolves, which isn't the greatest western ever made by any stretch, but is better than it usually gets credit for because one best picture against good fellows, which in hindsight looks ridiculous.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even at the time,
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it is a strong movie and it is interesting film about a guy who is treated like a war hero but what he really wants to do is get his far away from humanity as possible after the war and I want to pair that up with the absolutely incredible horror movie raveness which is basically the same thing except with superpowered cannibals where the guy pierces is
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: celebrated as a hero he knows he's a fraud and he wants to get this far away from the humanities possible and he ends up on an outpost at the far far western frontier where dang it wouldn't you know if you eat people you get superpowers it's not everyone knows that so that's a fun little story something I've always loved the conceit and from most cannibal movies that we're just delicious
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the it's a taboo and it's only taboo because we we taste so good.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the it's the only reason and if you eat too much of us, you'll you'll become like a vampire like it's right and the the taboo is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I mean, you're Joey.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Surely it's all in the preparation right I mean surely like you know not just you can't just like throw a throw a person a deep prior and get the same thing as if you like You know, we've we've aged this Ribion honey for 12 months like I take another idea uh speaking of uh Dan's with wolves beating good fellas good fellas is based on the true story of a mafia so who had
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: a very fascinating career and ended up sort of wasting away in witness protection having lost all of the glamour that made him want to be a criminal.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And around the same time that movie came out, another movie came out called My Blue Heaven, starring Steve Martin as a Mafioso who had the beginning of the movie, not the end.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Goes into witness protection.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the whole movie is this fish out of water thing about how a
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a shark's skin suited, you know, sleazy tacky mafia dawn is completely out of place in the suburbs of southern California, and the gag is however this is true, it's based on the same guy.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just, it just picks up with good fellas left off.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So just watch good fellas and then immediately go into my blood.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Have it and it's fucking hilarious.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also the movie is really good.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very underrated film, I find.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I try to think of more like kind of dark mirror, like two, two sides at the same point.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could watch any sort of semi-period accurate hamlet and
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... robbered aggers is the northmen but those are kind of different things on you know historical tax not necessarily
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: and accurate tale of any of any particular sort.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Treating.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You could watch, you could watch Shakespeare in the love, which is another film that I feel is a little underrated because it won best picture over a more popular movie.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which is a fun full of in jokes, comedy romance about Shakespeare writing his own place.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you could watch Rowan Denver, Xenonymous, which is about how Shakespeare didn't do shit.
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Turns out Shakespeare was an illiterate cad who was just mooching off of his bedders who were of course you know the aristocracy only the aristocracy could have written Shakespeare's place Yes, and considering the sort of anti-air aristocracy slant that Shakespeare in love has I think that's a pretty funny comparison Ooh the king's speech another best picture winner that is not that underrated, but it's okay
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, uh, that movie is about the King of England who, uh, becomes King after his brother abdicates the throne because he was, uh, he just really wanted to have sex with Wallace, uh, Simpson, uh, and then you could watch Madonna's admittedly not good WEE, which is all about that love affair and also this really embarrassing framing device of the modern day about people's super inspired.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: by that love affair between the then king of England and Nazi sympathizer.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that part that part is not focused on as much in WA now isn't.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it now?
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some good ones.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should probably move on, but we would love if anyone has any particularly fun ones.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: By all means, please write it down.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let us know if we missed anything cool.
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure we did.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were going off the top of our heads.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So anything that's like a particularly good contrast of things that are taking place at the same time, we'd love to see it.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do we got next week?
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, here's a letter from Win, hello, Win.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Win says HiBibs and Rock-Mice from a cool.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your most recent WGM, you posed that the first time travel story was, the time machine, this is a misconception.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was written a couple of weeks back.
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we count magic time travel, it happened for years with little to no explanation.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: The time machine is covered as the first science-based time travel story, instead of just being magic.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's the story called the clock that went backward that came out in 1881, which I think it was just like about a decade before the time machine, that a clock, the main character didn't make it.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: El Anakropete was written by Jasper Fernandezia Vila in 1887, it was the first story where in the main character build a time machine.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ono 7603 is a play.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: about the main characters being transported to the future where gender roles are reversed and it seems like it would be fun fun to act in it was written in 1781 wow but i can tell it's a it's in Danish it seems like it would have been a fun satire to watch and act in that's fun
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: See, myth and religion also have some time travel stories.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's stories in Hinduism, the story of King Rai Vita Kakudhi, the Mahabharata, that's time travel in it.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's very cool.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: The seven sleepers and the esrath mirage are Islamic stories that have time travel in them.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and honey, uh, Miguel, uh, from Judaism as a time travel story.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's very cool.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: A couple of religious examples where the character falls asleep and doesn't age and wakes up to see the future.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've decided to count his time travel.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose I'm counting sleeping for a long time.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: The young shipwright, aka the 300 years hence written by Mary Griffith, is about a man who is buried in a garden due to an explosion and wakes up 300 years later.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, also philosophical question is a Christmas Carol.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a time travel story?
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: if you read it as the spirit centering is dream, which I feel as a solid reading it.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, all our yesterdays win.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, indeed.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are all of all times.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we were, I think, sort of subconsciously focusing on time travel as a science fiction element.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have posited before, and I'm a little embarrassed that it didn't bring it up when this came up, that a Christmas Carol is absolutely a time travel story.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's just
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: revisiting the past without being able to change it.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do believe that as functionally someone looking into the past, I'm looking into at least a possible future.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know how to be anything else.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also, while we were talking about sort of fantastical versions, RIP van Winkle, Buddy team 19 or Washington Irving story.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, guy magically falls asleep.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is is that
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: want to get really technical about it.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Almost every story ever told is a time travel story.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just that you're traveling consistently forward at the same pace.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you think about it further, if you go to like, most of make sure editing, for example, or even just cutting between timelines or not covering every second of everyone's day in a book, we're constantly manipulating time in our stories in order to convey a narrative.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that's just where the reader is spent at for the viewers benefit.
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But every film condenses time and some significant way.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, unless it takes place entirely in real time, which if you do, uh, yeah, which, but though, but those were very rare, aren't they?
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they're just saying not technically every, but yes, the vast majority, uh, do manipulate time in some way.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, any time we or anybody else says that anything was the first anything, we're probably wrong.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's probably something there's probably at least an asterisk next to something ahead of time because nothing exists in a vacuum i think it was marked plain he said something along the lines of uh the only people who could have ever claimed to have had an original idea where we're like atom and even
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: like, you know, religion, but, you know, you have to go back to like, before there were people to find anything that was completely unimploants by other people, and what they have done, or helpless.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, but it's always fun to learn about these things, and I love, you know, I think one of the best ways to learn about cinema or anything else is to find something you love, and then find out what begat that.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the movie you love.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: What did that filmmaker, what was that filmmaker inspired by?
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cool, watch those movies.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: What were those filmmakers inspired by?
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cool, watch those movies.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And pretty soon, a couple of generations later, you've got a pretty working knowledge of a big chunk of gochabitch history.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really cool.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go back far enough, I've always taken a great deal of delight in the fact that the oldest story currently known to humankind, like the one written earliest was the Epic of Gilgamesh, written in ancient Sumurian.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the first sentence of the oldest story we know was he had seen everything.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're starting at the end of the story.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's great.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really fond of a line they repeat in battle-start galactic.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember it's in the original series, but it's in the reboot series, which is all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nice, which is very poetic.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know exactly where it's from.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure someone's already writing an email explaining it.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh... but in any case uh... thank you we always love a correction we do it's yeah we're never we're we're we're sometimes we're like ah dang i should have known that but like seriously we we want to learn and we want to share the knowledge so thank you always always interested in the correction what's our next email
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh next email comes from Marcus uh it says uh deer bibs and wits uh i just started listening again for the first time since 2019 i had a child and some of my hobbies fell by the way side is my priorities changed anyways my love from movies was recently reignited after watching 1960s the apartment well on a plane uh i remember it being on my watchlist back when i was watching movies a lot and decided to give it a try good movie yeah yeah i'll say so
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, my question to you is, what is the best movie you watched for the first time on an airplane?
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, second question, do you guys have a letterboxed account or what is the best way to see your reviews?
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I think you have a continuing to do the pods and certainly mark us.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, as for the,
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: of airplane movies.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I went on a business trip to Florida kind of recently, so I had a lot of time on a plane, but I had failed to grab a pair of headphones.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: to listen to listen to a movie so um what I did was I found a movie that I was very familiar with and decided to see what the experience would be like if I watched that whole movie without any sound and just watching the subtitle right uh so I chose the Wizard of Oz and movie I've seen a hundred times
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that was a very, um, unusual experience because that's a, that's a musical.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's songs in it.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's all of the audio is just sort of echoing in my brain.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And because I've seen it so much, I think I didn't even really need to.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just sort of like, looking at a picture of an old friend in that case.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're feeling in the gaps mentally.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's an old, uh, uh, critical studies trick.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, where especially if you want to study things like visual storytelling, cinematography, editing in particular, uh, take a movie and just remove all the sound because sound smooths out a lot.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sound smooths out transitions sound is able to fill in gaps in narrative that you've forgotten to film or or just plan to convey and sound in the first place.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And not every movie.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: functions like, for example, a silent movie where everything was visually designed, you know, some a lot of them are better than others, but everything was specifically designed to work without sound.
• 19:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So everything had to be very, very clear.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had a similar experience at an airplane.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was as many years ago, and I didn't, I think I couldn't, it was back when you had to like pay for headphones, and I couldn't afford them, or I did this and have the money, or whatever.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but the person next to me was watching something and I had never seen Marley and me Uh, which is a book starring uh, it's a base on a book.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It stars Owen Wilson as a guy who gets a dog.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: The dog is very very wonderful and unfortunately it's a movie about a dog So unless it's like specifically Beethoven and like very very cutesy
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: bad things often happen to the dog in dog movies, like an old yellow turner in hooch itself.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm watching this movie and I'm finding that although you know, it doesn't seem to be terribly rich and complicated narrative story telling, it was very clear.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of the emotions were coming out in a very, very concise, very effective
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: way that is a just a cleanly told narrative and I think honestly there's a decent chance I appreciate Marley and me more because that was my introduction than if I had probably seen it with sound which I know been most of the manipulative mayor made out work but like you know that was I again I had a lot of respect from Marley and me just right off the bat the correct answer for me though the best movie I've ever watched in an airplane was geostorm
• 21:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that is a perfect airplane cover I was flying back from somewhere.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't fucking know But I was I was on a particularly long plane ride from the east coast of the west coast and The only movies that appealed to me that they had available were junk so I watched What was I think it was a King Arthur legend of the sword whichever one guy richy did Oh god, that's a terrible movie the whole movie is made up of of like
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: montage is just every other scene is a bunch of stuff happening all at once and nothing actually moving forward or making sense.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just a bad movie, but then I follow that up with geostorm, which is an incredibly inane movie, just absolute nonsense, and even by the standards of like theme devlin directed it, and he was the writer for a lot of role in demographics, more popular films like Independent Stay, and
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was clearly trying to get that independence day magic going and it's just we found a way to cure the world's weather problems by controlling the was satellites, but oh no, the satellites broke and now we have a geostorm and now the president is being rescued by the scientist's brother and his
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Secret Service Girlfriend, who is played exactly like she would play a Terminator, which I love, she's an incredible performance, and we're like just outrunning lightning, and it's just this is the fucking best movie.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just the best movie.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: the problem is that the kind of movies like the kind of junk I would want to see on an airplane if I only have access to like ginger ale nuts and like really shitty gin like the kind of movie I would want to watch in that scenario I couldn't watch on a plane because I wanted them to have like a lot of gore nudity and I don't think they offer those kinds of films on those little seatback screens yeah no like I totally get it like watching I don't know some
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like watching Bumblebee isn't going to get, isn't even going to get you back to normal.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need a much more powerful shot for you in particular.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I totally get that, so one last note before we move on.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last time I was on an airplane, I noticed that, hey, this citizen came on this airplane.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, shoot, they matted it.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like before they cut off the top and bottom of the screen.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: If anyone, yeah, if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, before the 1950s, movies were pretty much universally presented, what we call a cadobing ratio, which isn't a perfect square, but is close enough.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's essentially a square.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then in the 50s, they popularized widescreen and hunter to help sort of compete with television, which was becoming more and more ubiquitous.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then they started eventually in the 90s.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: They started popularizing white screen TVs.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the practice of cropping films to a square, from white screen to a square, was quickly phased out in favor of showing everything in white screen or preferably its original aspect ratio.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: someone in their finite wisdom decided that everything would look better on white screen nobody likes black bars on the side of your screen so we're just going to cut off a third citizen can and I was under the impression.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was under the distinctive impression in the 1980s they threatened to colorize citizen can.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: and it turned out in horse and horse's contract so that he didn't just have director's cut and said it's incant.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: He had director's cut in perpetuity throughout the universe essentially.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one could touch it.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one could colorize it.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was forbidden.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which I'm pretty sure also means you're not allowed to cut it to fucking widescreen So I feel like the airline I would've always dealt her some shit.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I felt the airline I was on could be sued for that and a part of being really wants to really want them to be because God damn it dude There's a movie in that Yeah, that's airplanes, but there was also a second part to this letter.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do we have a letter boxed and how is the best way to see our reviews that some practical stuff that we can just sort of
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's some of our newer listeners know because we we don't have a letter box do we or We created one for the podcast and the quickly fell into this use because I had to run that thing and I
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm bad at that, I don't curate the catalog that way.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people, I love letter box.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got nothing against letter box.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: But letter boxes are people who want to keep track of every single thing that they're watching and also share what they're watching with other people and write reviews.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes short reviews, sometimes long reviews.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's really, really great.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I write my reviews.
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: on other publications.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So spending a lot of time writing them for Letterbox doesn't make a lot of sense, right?
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also remember that when Letterbox was becoming particularly popular, I was playing the movie trivia Shmoadown.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if I cataloged every single movie I was watching, all of the other competitors would get a leg up on me because, oh, he's studying up on the fast, oh, he's really studying on those two.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was a fun and weird era in our lives.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm not unletter boxed, but it is pretty easy to find my reviews.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: The majority of my reviews in print for most of my career are on Rotten Tomatoes.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can go to my author page on Rotten Tomatoes.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just Rotten Tomatoes.com slash author slash William Dashbitty-Annie.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you can just look it up on Google, William Bitty-Annie Rotten Tomatoes.
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can see
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the most recent are first, but it goes back pretty far.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the early reviews are no longer, like, they're dead links now because the sites went under, unfortunately, but that's probably the best way if you just want to read my reviews, but Ron Tomatoes only catalogs reviews.
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so like if I wrote a top 10 list, it's not on there.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so you can go to my author page at the rap as well.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can check that out.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I've written for a lot of other publications as well, but less consistently.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so, you know, you can, you can try to check out my name at, uh, Bloody Disgusting or wrote for there for a while.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote for slash for a while, like you.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: although you went career and yeah but yeah the author page at the publications where you've seen our work is a good place to start but Rotten Tomatoes is a particularly good aggregate of just our links yeah yeah yeah yeah that is true you can go to because I write for a slash film they we each have an author page you can go to I think it's just slashfilm.com slash author slash Whitney Sybold you can find all my
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how many things are there with me?
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so many.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've write about four articles a day these days.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about my point is what I think recently you told me you think you figured out the number, or at least you recently crossed the big threshold.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I recently submitted, I submitted my first article to slash film in November of 2021.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And since then, I have,
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have contributed 5,000 articles to that website.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: 5,000 articles, that's 5,00, that's what you say if you were to guess, and I know it varies.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you were to guess the average length of those articles, what would you say to averages out to?
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we write that everything's structured in a very specific way over its lash film, so each of our my articles has to be like between 500 and 850 words, although a lot of them are a lot longer than that.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So why don't we just say, let's let's just say 800 as an average just on just because we don't.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that is.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is four million words.
• 30:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that sounds about right.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, which is I'm pretty sure that's like the equivalent of like quite a few novels at this point.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just all there.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like film with a compendium of Whitney's wisdom and wit and insights.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I highly recommend you check it out because you can learn a lot about film history.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can learn a lot of, uh, you can learn a hell of a lot about Gilligan's Island and Star Trek.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh gosh, yeah, I'm kind of the resident Star Trek guy.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I was just put in charge of a regular call on called Trexpertise, which delves into like the really nerdy stuff, like how dilithium crystals actually work inside an engine and I have this great book from the 90s called it's just called the Star Trek Max generation technical manual and Rick Sternbach and Michael Kuda the technical advisors on the show just put together everything like the actual
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: imaginary physics that went into every single piece of imaginary tech on the show.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really handy when I'm writing these articles, but you know, mine has a little bit more more wit to them.
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, because you're with me.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, but thank you for asking those really great questions.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whitney, why don't we move on?
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's see.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's our next letter.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... this one comes from this one's a little bit long it comes from mark and mark says uh... bibbs and uh... and there's three emojis a rock a king the scottish flag and a snowflake nice rock my stomach cool very very nice rock my stomach all the remember i think it was uh... the rink and bass special it was here comes Santa Claus it was the origin of Santa Claus and the villain was burger myster mister burger
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: because he was the organizer and his last thing was myster burger and I think that's one of the funniest names anyone's ever come up with.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what's what's that?
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's letting?
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I have been meaning to email you for many years at this point, but if struggle to get my thoughts down on paper or you know on screen, however, that idiom goes in a tech-to-connected world.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Either way, I keep meaning to send video game recommendations to Whitney, who's professed a narrow taste in video games, actually hurt my soul whenever they come up.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whitney's query one time about the scoring system in unpacking a game that is extremely meditative, coming of age, exploring...
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exploration of a young woman's life through the items she keeps between moves was a question akin to asking when the fight scene will happen in persona.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course it's only because the pair of you opened my mind to the vastness of cinema that I could even describe persona also would have been told you that persona is a Japanese RPG series about school kids fighting monsters, but I digress.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is not that email.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You are safe for me.
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Similarly, semi-coherently rambling about video games for now.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: In the most recent, you've got mail at least of the time of writing.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot to press send so you may have recorded another one by now.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You said you should have a critically kind board game at a common game format immediately came to my mind.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: and then immediately left my mind because I was busy at work packing freshly baked bread as as my want, but something Twitter triggered my memory this morning and somehow I managed to dash off this entirely unplayed tested and unproved variant of a common card game format.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The critically acclaimed game.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is going to be a...
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear it.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Inspired by Apple's two Apple's snake oil and cards against humanity.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: What you need, a pack of small blank index cards, three or more players in a good knowledge of phones, set up, split the pack of index cards between the players sort of evenly.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: On each card, the players write the name of a film they have seen and find interesting, then place those cards face down in a pile in the middle of the table.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Once everyone has run out of index cards, the movies they can think of, or patience, shuffle the pile and discard any blank cards.
• 34:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I lost a little bit.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dealage player a hand of six cards.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, the players have the option to remove any films from their hands.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are unfamiliar with and return those cards to the bottom of the deck, then draw back up to six.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: If any of the newly drawn cards are also films they aren't familiar with, they will draw, et cetera, et cetera.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, make sure you have a reader with a peter or a letter box.
• 34:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ask the player who wrote the card or simply faint knowledge or bluff their way through the game.
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gameplay.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The player who most recently watched a movie in a theater goes first.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... if one or two more players were the same screening as the player who who sitting on the left this player is the critic who okay like this far the critic chooses a card uh... from their hands reads it out and either briefly describes the film to best of their knowledge or asks whoever wrote the card
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: sir my eyes are going to do so going going clockwise around the table each player chooses a card from their hand places it in front of them and tries to explain why their film would make a great second half of a double feature when combined with the critics fell that's cool I like this this this is really fun we're gonna do this and this we're really gonna do this this is a great idea for a game I love this
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this, this, this, this is fantastic.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're too, this is the first question we asked in this, we've got mail was about a loom of double features.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was about double features.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, appropriate.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: This explanation can be critical technical philosophical emotional ironic comedic or even as creative as the player which is essentially anything goes short of threats or bribery.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, once all players have proposed their double features, the critic chooses the one they feel is the best, similarly they may judge on any criteria they want short of favoritism or pay.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: The winner player takes the critics card places on top of their own played card and puts the play cards to one side.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the other players place their play cards into this card pile.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The winning player is now the critic gameplay repeats until all of the games are played.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I like this game.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really fun game.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I already know how to play it.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I figured it out already.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's a really, really good system.
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, obviously, it's derivative of Apple's, is it apples to apples is what it's called?
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is, you know, the cards against the end, with those, those kinds of games.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is fine.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a perfectly acceptable play style.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's, you know,
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't think close enough to any of those to run the rescue feeling, you know, like, been there, done that, but yeah, that's really, it's so simple, too.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's get the index cards, everyone write the names of movies that they've seen or feeling they can do, and then, yeah, divvy them up, that's really clever.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are totally gonna play that game.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a little bit more the end of the game once the final round has ended and all cards have been played the players count on many They have the player with the most double features wins and is critically acclaimed Nice in the case of a tie-all tied players are critically acclaimed Nice the critically acclaimed players look through all of the double features and decide on a favorite the players now have to choose to either watch that double feature Play the game again or just do something else
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I actually watching it at the end as, you know, a good way to fill the whole way.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that you at least find this of some interest in the unlikely event that it brings some level of joy and our entertainment, let it be known that it cannot equal one billion of the entertainment and enlightenment you have provided me over the years.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Your gentleman have done nothing but expand my horizons and make me consider arch that I never would have done otherwise for just shy of a decade and for that I only have the most sincere praise mark.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you, Mark.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a great game.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's really fun?
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to call this Mark Cope's critically acclaimed card game.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to give him full credit because this is his idea.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 38:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did Mark give his full name in the email?
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't want to...
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was signed off Mark Cope.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just want to make sure.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you, we give your name based on the name that you write down.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you sign off.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you leave it anonymous, we leave it anonymous.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you say like, you know,
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Philamdering in Philadelphia, we would call you that.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're choice, but there you go.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or if you give your name, I mean, give your name.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to make sure that we were saying right thing.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, that's you should get credit for that.
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is a really good game.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I totally sign off on that.
• 38:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really fun.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we are definitely going to do that.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we will try to return back.
• 38:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how fast we can get to that big, but it's really, really fun idea.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about what that means.
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really great.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK, well thank you for that.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was cool.
• 39:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was tight.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: What do we got next?
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, here's a letter from a Shad.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Shad.
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it's a Star Trek letter.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: What about you guys?
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, guys, after having to take a break from the Patreon, do some health related bills.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am back.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm sorry about your health related bills.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Those are never fun.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm back.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am catching up on the episode and wanted to leave some information on the episode force of nature.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's the episode of next narration where they can't go faster than warp five.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, like they read.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the one where they realize that their warp engines are like
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: damaging to a certain area of space, and Federation says you now can't go faster than warp five, because that's that's uh it was an episode They came out supposed to be an environmental episode.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was episode They came out in the early 90s and in the early 90s people were really Finally starting to rally together and realize that fossil fuels and things like aerosol cans We're extremely damaging to the environment
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And people were calling for legislation and other forms of incentives to curb those emissions in order to heal the ozone layer make the air more breathable all that kind of stuff and
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: they thought it would be interesting to do a Star Trek episode in which they found out that simply traveling at warp, the thing that they have to do in order to travel.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the show is predicated on.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: What if that was deleterious to the environment of space itself?
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they had to start actually thinking about
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Reserving that resource and being very careful with how they used it, which I think is an interesting idea on paper not very well told dramatically in the episode interesting idea on paper, but also Pretty much only got in the way and they only the only went back to it a couple of times, but I expect something to talk about what it what's the rest of the letter Well, you pointed out to me that after that they started instead of saying like warp one, they would say maximum warp, which is something I didn't even really notice
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like whatever is the best available to us, kind of just covered all the bases.
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, anyway, the only mention the Warp 5 limitation once more during the next generation, and that's during the episode, the Pegasus.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never mentioned on Deep Space 9, but the technical manual for Voyager states that the folding discells were designed to help alleviate the Warp Field issue.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't gotten to Star Trek Voyager yet, but the ship, when it's traveling at sublight speeds, is folded like kind of flat.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when it goes to warp the Nacell's fold up into a different configuration and then it zips off to warp.
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's any, it's a neat design.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It looks cool.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I do like that.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because Voyager was considered like a top of the line experimental ship and had this cool kind of like living technology in it.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like wasn't it like moss or something in it that like,
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just like, yeah, it was, it wasn't moss, but it was like organic, uh, there was like an organic compound in the computer gel packs.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they could store information in this kind of liquid state.
• 42:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was pretty cool.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's much like in the later episodes of MSD3K, Mystery Sense series 3000, where movies are not kept on DVDs or on film strips, they are kept in tubes of water.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, like the information is stored in the liquid somewhere, which is fun.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, so I was unaware that that was the justification for that.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's great because one of the things we've been postulating is that in a utopian society like the one spoused in Star Trek, that I was achieved but a spoused, they would want to fix that.
• 42:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They would want to do something about that.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And surely they would make making warp travel safe.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: a top priority, and maybe the reason why they did mention it was because they fixed it, which is a good idea.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, probably would have been even better to point that out in the text, you know, I was saying that because if we're talking about YouTube, because they're always bragging about how they're post capitalism, what if they were, um, post environmental waste.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be great about that, too.
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, Shad continues to say, they never say exactly how the folding the cells help.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one line of information and now we don't ever have to talk about it.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Personally, I think they added a TEMZERION filter, and that's what's solved.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: The problem?
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a Simpsons reference, so how a principal skinner's real name is Armin TEMZERION.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but at the end of the episode where we found out he was in prison, he was in the real principal scanner.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: They made it illegal to mention that he's not the real principal scanner, so that they never have to reference that plot point ever again.
• 43:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's right, it's brutal.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and that because that wasn't in the show, it's just in a technical manual.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Only nerds like us are going to be saying, well, you know, actually.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's you, but it's useful information.
• 44:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's useful information.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, they brought up a big thing and then they just kind of dropped it.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's nice to know that somewhere, even if it's just jotted down on a book somewhere, someone was like, no, we got that.
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have to worry about that.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little more set.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's just a technical thing because it's just a little blip.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot more satisfying than saying somehow Palpatine returned.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Which feels like it should be like a huge plot point and should have been built up for two movies or whatever, but if they were just like, oh, hey, how do we fix the Millennium Falcons, you know, hyperdrive, um, that went there and that went there and we're good.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think we can all get behind the that's not a big deal.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's nice.
• 44:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you.
• 44:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did bit.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's good trivia.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, glad to be back listening to the show.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And please, when you get to Star Trek generations, the movie, do a full-length commentary on that one.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was a Star Trek convention in Tulsa, Oklahoma just after that movie came out.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the author of the nitpicker's Guide to Next Generation Truckers, Phil Farron was there.
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he did an entire panel about how the errors
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: in generations.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a room full of trekkies ripping it apart.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: One movie for a solid hour.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was glorious.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that sounds about right.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for all you do, Shad.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can probably do a comment about that for generations.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll try to remember right with the decent chance we'll space out because that's at least a few months away.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's a good idea.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's fun.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Generations is a weird flick.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, generations came at like a weird time in my fandom, because I was like, like, deeper into Star Trek, then the hour I ever was.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that movie came out, and I'm watching it multiple times in the theater, and I'm talking about it with friends, and it's like, I didn't even really give a thought to its quality.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And think it was like, is it a good movie?
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a bad movie?
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was, didn't even really care.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's a Star Trek movie, and this is the thing in front of me, and that's what I'm going to obsess about.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, and the thing is with generations is that they kind of just had a good hook, you know, the card and Kirk meat and team up at some point.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but A, that only happens right at the end of the movie and B, they didn't think out the rest of the movie.
• 46:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's got to be it's got to be a reason to get to there.
• 46:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got to be excited until then and they just kind of filled it with just like, hey,
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the phenomenon of we had to give them something to do like this this is the this is the movie.
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We got to do something special.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very curious how the Mandalorian and Grogo is going to turn out and that regard because Have you watched that show with me at all.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I haven't seen a single frame of that.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I watched I think some of it and then I caught up.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just finished actually catching up because I'm going to see them moving a couple of days.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that show is
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it looks very cinematic, you know, they do a bunch of stuff that you would normally only get to see in movie theaters because it's so expensive and visual effects, have you?
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But also like every episode is like it's own little kind of mini movie and I'm thinking of myself The line between what the man the Lorian does on TV and what justifies making a feature film like what kind of leap Justifies, okay, now we need to see this one in theaters Um
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: is a very different, I think, than going from like a network television budget to like a $75 million blockbuster.
• 47:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I'm curious if they're gonna, it may or may not be good.
• 48:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious if they're gonna be able to make the spectacle worthwhile and set it aside from the show.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, they're in the movie, and movie, it was really good.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we'll see you in the case.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you for writing it.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here's another letter.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Grace one comes from Mirror Universe Harry Mud.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is another Star Trek letter.
• 48:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like it.
• 48:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: uh... gentle beings i've been enjoying your coverage of tgds nine uh... and would like to clear up some miscontractions they come up during your rewatch i wish i'd thought of that miscontractions uh... yeah that that copyright that sounds like something will be in too yeah uh... anyway uh... i have included several pauses for you bibs to comment on the premise i suggest
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Someone's been paying attention to how this works.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: With that in mind, please enjoy my explanation for why Deep Space 9 technology doesn't behave the same way as Federation Tech.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: The enterprise is a Starfleet flagship in one of the most advanced Federation vessels in service as of Star Trek Next Generation.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Deep Space 9 takes place on a non-Federation station using technology from multiple non-Federation manufacturers.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason hollow suites and Federation holidays have operate identically any more than
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We knew that we knew that the space station was built by the Kardashians, and we've talked about that a lot.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Kardashians have different designs, specifications.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: They work on different frequencies, y'all y'all y'all y'all, it's not the same tech.
• 49:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But pointing out that probably applies to tech all over the ship is probably something I don't think we've addressed directly, and it's a good point.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he says that also explains why quarks hollow sweet seems to have fewer safeguards federation rules done as a ceremony apply on a bejorn station run partly by a foreign e business entering someone else's hollow sweet program might be illegal in the federation
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Kork is not exactly known for a Compliance standards to pause for discussion.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's I'll take your answer.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say it's right now to be fair the the Federation doesn't have great like Regulations on the holiday guy.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're man like they just really don't they're kind of I think it's constantly breaking Endangering lives creating new life
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, being used to be weird and creepy about your co-workers or fallen love with a real person, but like a fake AI version of them.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really meant to see that wouldn't mean it.
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the holiday is kind of gross, actually, in the way it tends to, whatever it breaks it is, anyway.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: that's a little little messed up in it.
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so anything I think quarks are probably designed to be not a year by nature, no pun intended.
• 50:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't really a part more just a casual reference, but yeah, no, I don't, I don't, I think we're giving Starfleet a little too much credit for saying that there's a regulator, but fair enough.
• 51:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, you could ask, why would the holiday given allow real-person simulations if that can obviously be abused?
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because Starfleet assumes its officers are professionals.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: The system runs partly on trust and social norms, creating sexualized replicas of real co-workers is considered creepy, unethical, and deeply inappropriate behavior in a Federation culture.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: The technology exists because they're legitimate uses for it.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, when Troy runs the Kobayashi Maru command test, the emotional impact comes from sacrificing a Jordi specifically and we haven't gotten to that episode.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's from the episode that I know and self, that's coming up pretty shortly.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: The scenario only works because the simulation uses real person, real people that the subject knows personally.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's not how, I think even an idealized society like Starfleet, that's not how rules work.
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have rules to cover worst case scenario and the people who would, like, there's a reason why we outlaw murder.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: right theoretically we all agree that murder is bad and yet it keeps happening funny uh so you know we we make sure that that is clearly on the book says something we do not approve of unless of course
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're executing a murderer, which is, you know, hypocritical, but that's a whole backgrounds.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, that's, that's how rules work.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We make rules to cover the people who would break rules of the situations in which those rules might be broken.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and uh, who is the community?
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's some community and who is talking about this and he was just like, listen, I do drugs like a champion.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: but like someone else is just like, oh, you're ruining it for everybody because you're not responsible with your addictive drugs.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how that works.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I still think they need regulations.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we discussed this once.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the idea that
• 53:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Commanding officers who probably have different restrictions.
• 53:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if like, you know, the barber on the enterprise needs to create like perfect replicas.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe how about this?
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: What if if you're not, if there isn't a damn good reason for it and I think only like command should have the access to that, you're only allowed to create imperfect replicas of people.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: like they don't ask like they don't look quite right or they look kind of low red or their voices a little bit off so that you couldn't like copy their voice pattern and you know give someone a false order on the ship I think that might actually have about this they have a big they have a big letter H on their forehead for hologram okay like on red door that would be funny by the way I think everyone is required to take a drink every time I complain about the
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: that's all this, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging it, you're just chugging
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: or Jordi shared his access code one time and Barclay abused it who can say positive it's got yeah no i don't think i don't think uh... he's they i don't think he's here's what i think i think that if you're creating it i do put it of someone who is real still alive and specially someone who's like a crew member on the ship like a co-worker or something like that i think they should be derezed to like virtue of fighter graphics
• 54:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just like they look like polygons.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they should look like the money for nothing music video.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they should just like recognizable in sort of like a cartoon kind of abstract way.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But not actually convincing.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: They think that's and they and they they need to be like it's like when they change the voice of Kermit like the new current voice of Kermit is like the wrong permit like it's just like you're not even close to Kermit.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I understand you're not going to be exactly the same as the old kermits, but and if you one thing, if it was like a totally different take and it kind of works, but there's like, no, you're just you just not kermit.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every every like, if you wanted to make a holiday simulation where you teamed up with Picard to like go treasure hunting, A, he should look like PS1 graphics of Picard and do he should sound like not kermit.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, that's gotta be good enough.
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And final, I think that's hard to say, because what if you create a clearly Barclay though, it's like going into personnel files, because the computer has the images of the senior staff like in its file somewhere.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the computer can create those people.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You probably couldn't just go in and create someone from scratch and
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Accidentally make it look exactly like them right?
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be extremely hard to do you would have to be doing it on purpose I mean, I guess you could do it subconsciously like oh that looks a little like riker, but like I don't think you would come up with anything nearly that exact if you were just If you hit randomized, I don't think that would be a thing.
• 56:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 56:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, finally, the ending of a fistful of data with Warf kissing a female version of data.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't endorse Warf's horror, because it's supposed to be gay.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't endorse Warf's horror as supposed to be gay panic.
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Warf is honorable and deeply uncomfortable with the idea that he was forced to have a romantic encounter with a holographic version of his crewmate without their consent.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: From his perspective, that's humiliating and dishonorable and in front of his son, no less.
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pause to discuss.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually good point.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we criticize that point because it looks like a gay panic joke that oh, no Warf is gonna have to like be kind of snugly and might have to kiss a man and that's what was making him comfortable But no, that's a good point.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He the fact that it was a friend of his was what what made it uncomfortable.
• 57:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: He was fine with shooting all the other data as though
• 57:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but that he's taking their lives in honorable combat, that's okay.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, you know, for war, for war, if I can see that, that kind of tracks.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's listen, there's a, there's a concept in Marvel Comics called The No Price, where you acknowledge, you acknowledge that there is some kind of inconsistency or logical fallacy or this character shouldn't have been wearing this costume and this era, yada, yada, yada.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And but instead of just complaining, hey, that's wrong.
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You have to come up with a workaround, a reason why that makes sense.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can do that, you're going to no price.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: For a festival of data as you win a no price, that's a good no price.
• 58:18
  [UNKNOWN]: All right.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, yes, the scene is absolutely gay panic and written like a 1990 sitcom style sexuality joke, but Michael Dorn is 100% deserves a more charitable read than war freaked out because gay.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please let me know if you'd like to address the cloaking device.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not nearly as long as this treat us.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sure.
• 58:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely something about it.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, no, we got to do it because we recently in episode that we covered on all our yesterday's, it's on a Patreon page where we there's a whole episode about how the Federation
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Federation's enemies often have cloaking devices.
• 58:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Their spaceships are invisible in space.
• 58:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why does the Federation have that?
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the reasons are unclear.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're unclear.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not terribly convincing.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty obvious that they made that as an arbitrary story decision to just make sure that the enterprise has at least something akin to a weakness.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but they've struggled to justify it in the continuity of the show because in the continuity of the show Not entirely sure that makes sense Not entirely sure that makes sense But yeah, so to say email we'd love to we'd love to read it.
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think we have time for one more.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, uh
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, hold on.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a P.S.
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a little low post script.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it's a, it says love snack fam.
• 59:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, that's, that's my, that's my wife's podcast.
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: My wife and my son try limited edition snacks.
• 59:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have their own, their own podcast now.
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So look up snack fan podcast.
• 59:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, first couple of episodes.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can find the first couple of episodes on our feed, but you can also go to the snack fan.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: podcasts, it's a separate podcast, not related to ours other than, like, you know, biologically.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, uh, but it's its own thing.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a link at the bottom of our descriptions of our most recent episodes, head on over there, subscribe, don't miss a single snack.
• 1:00:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, and post script the real reason why Kirk didn't save you to the killer is because of the temporal prime directive, why did he take Jillian Taylor and voyage home because they changed the temporal prime directive.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can do this all day.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a little thin, but okay, I'll let it go.
• 1:00:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they had a temporal one directive yet.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like in the original series, when they went back in time the first time it was considered quite unexpected and novel, not something that we had a lot of rules for existing about.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting thought.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have time for one more letter.
• 1:00:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's one more letter.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: This one comes from Jesse.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Jesse.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Jesse.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, my two favorite critics.
• 1:00:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: a while ago on we've got mail you read a letter from my grandmother using your platform as an interface to get me to watch the towering inferno game glad we get a follow up of this oh we get a little follow up on this one okay i love it uh let's see uh for what it's worth getting my name in the title of an episode was my favorite podcast and it's a great way to do just about anything hey
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, I'm not sure why I didn't take her advice sooner.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: She has a fantastic hit rate.
• 1:01:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Donny Darko, Godzilla and Requiem for a dream of being among her most successful suggestions.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's cool, Grandma.
• 1:01:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But something about towering in Furno may be a verse to watching it.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It had a cast I knew I'd like and a premise that seemed to make for a really exciting movie.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the reason is, I didn't watch it previously.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hearing you to talk about it and its significance directly to me, convinced me and I really liked it.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I am struck by the fact that outside of Thoroughly I mentioned in the social network, I've never seen discussion of the film outside dedicated film communities.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: You lost your place.
• 1:01:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sorry.
• 1:01:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: My immediate guest for this phenomenon was that the film was so overshadowed by Die Hard, which makes sense given the Roderick Thorpe who wrote the book Die Hard was based on was supposedly inspired by the towering in Furno.
• 1:02:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are very similar movies after all.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even still.
• 1:02:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I've never seen a movie so popular on the mainstream fall so hard out of the public eye.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although I suppose if one did, I would know about it precisely because it, I wouldn't know about it precisely because it isn't in the public eye.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I ask what other movies met the same fate as the towering in front of, old movies, the old to the better, that were hugely influential and popular at the time that people nowadays don't talk about or don't remember at all.
• 1:02:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your fantastic podcasts, Jesse.
• 1:02:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, I mean, Francis, the talking mule comes into the mind of media.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, those weren't like, billion dollar blockbusters, even if he would just for inflation.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there was an entire franchise in the 1950s.
• 1:02:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: A multiple film movie franchise.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: People wanted a lot.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: of Francis the talking mule.
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now here's the premise.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a statement here because it's it's a lot Francis is a talking mule there.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I said it.
• 1:03:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was it.
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was enough.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was enough for the get bolts of the skills.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we don't talk about it anymore because it was pillory by the Catholic church for having an unholy talking animal in it.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that there are a lot of like really successful series that they just sort of milked into non-existence and yeah people just don't talk about anymore.
• 1:03:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look up how many blondie movies there are.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Based on the old comic strip, there were like
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like five of those a year for like 10 years.
• 1:03:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was enough.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the reason.
• 1:03:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So many of these blondes.
• 1:03:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those were like B movies.
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those were all like, you know, 70 minutes long.
• 1:03:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were kind of reconcurrently with other features.
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you still don't make like two dozen of those if they're not popular.
• 1:03:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just don't.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You make a couple maybe, but like, and then you're done.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, people flocked to see Blondie, the comic strip,
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: about the uh... beautiful housewife and her uh... dopey husband who likes really gigantic sandwiches um... you know that's that was it that was enough that was enough you could build an entire movie franchise based on that um... one movie that i is actually movie i've never seen even though i know it's a famous and it's critically claimed uh... but
• 1:04:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is on the, if you would just for inflation, it is one of the top 10 highest grossing movies of all time.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I have never, and again, this isn't necessarily the best metric by which, again, gauge popularity, but I've never had anyone quote it.
• 1:04:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've never seen it referenced sort of idly in anything except like one Calvin and Hobbs comic strip.
• 1:04:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that movie is Dr. Javago.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Dr. Javago was a big damn deal back in the day.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our parents know Dr. Chavago, but yeah, like our generation and younger, don't watch Dr. Chavago.
• 1:05:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you would just... You might know Lara's theme, like the famous piece of music from the movie, but you... Yeah, nobody... Yeah, it's like the theme from a summer place, nobody talks about the movie anymore, but you might recognize the score.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you adjust for inflation, Dr. Chavago, at least domestically, outgrossed Star Wars Episode 7, the Force Awakens.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, hang on.
• 1:05:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It outgrossed every Star Wars except the first one.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was a bigger movie.
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was bigger than any Transformers.
• 1:05:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: That outgrossed.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: That outgrossed more.
• 1:05:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: That outgrossed to Avatar.
• 1:05:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Javago was bigger than Avatar when it came out.
• 1:05:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying it's gone it's it's still I think reasonably respected but yeah it just doesn't come up it's not very highly rated on the highest we was you know best movies of all time lists it doesn't just it just doesn't get the attention and I and I'm part of the problem I've never seen it actually I need to get around to that.
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, the towering in Fernou is really interesting, interesting choice because the towering in Fernou was part of a whole trend of disaster movies that were just huge throughout the 1970s.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: These ideas of getting a gigantic cast of really big stars together and putting them all in various stories within a big disaster scenario.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Turing in Fernou, burning building in earthquake, shipwreck,
• 1:06:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was a whole lot of airplane crash movies, the airport series were all big airport huge, the original airport, which is going to be about an airline disaster, that was, that's also one of the highest grocery movies all the time.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty far under Dr. Javago, but I think it's in like the top 25 or 50 adjusted for inflation.
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, and it's fun.
• 1:06:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: The multiple sequels, it was nominated for Best Picture.
• 1:06:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it won at least one Academy Award.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're gone.
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: All the airport movies can be trusted, like they're not like deleted.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank God, but like those were at least until the last one.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those were huge blockbuster, successful motion pictures and nobody seems to care anymore.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody, they don't know where I've never seen like at a locals and we're in Los Angeles.
• 1:07:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we have like multiple the American cinema techs and who Beverly.
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of different local theaters that screen a lot of old moves.
• 1:07:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: You see like archive for granted a lot.
• 1:07:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I've ever seen anyone screen a screen airport or any of the airport sequels.
• 1:07:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's got.
• 1:07:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of more recent blockbusters are already vanishing.
• 1:07:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember the DC extended universe?
• 1:07:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think all.
• 1:07:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were like four.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think some of those are like, ran for like.
• 1:07:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, but because the studio was so eager to sort of restart that mythology, and because there were so many terrible bombs, especially out of the middle of that thing, I think they're just sort of slipping from the mass consciousness in a really significant way, like how
• 1:08:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: People talked a lot about Justice League, and they made a big stink about how Justice League was not made in the proper way, because the director suffered a personal tragedy and it had to step off, and so it's spent all this money to make this other version.
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now that we have a new version of Superman, that whole kerfuffle seems like so far in the past.
• 1:08:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like something that we just, is now a footnote.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares anymore about the two different cuts of Justice League.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:08:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I think whenever it comes up, I think there's almost a universal agreement that for all of its flaws, the Snyder cut was the better film.
• 1:08:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose so, but who cares about the Snyder cut anymore?
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Who's passionate about defending?
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's only gonna come up in like footnotes now.
• 1:09:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's already been pushed down the docket.
• 1:09:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like when you start to consider how many bombs there were, like Aquaman part two, or, or, you know, blue beetle or black atom.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what, just right there, all of these goals.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: These films are not really well-rememmedible.
• 1:09:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: All the examples you just gave were like the last three films.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: like it was like that and the shazam sequel like those were they did those were not block hit block busters that lost favor that it's a franchise that lost favor over time and I don't think that's the same thing.
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas I think some of the like man of steel still has fans that man V Superman Those still very divisive some people are still I think really big fans heck even birds of prey Which was a massive bomb there are people myself included who go out of their way to champion that film because we think it's really cool So I don't know if those are all the best examples, but I would you know I was thinking when you were talking about that
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's happening.
• 1:10:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel as though it's confirmed, but I'm pretty sure that this is happening already to the Michael Bay Transformers movies.
• 1:10:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those ones still are a part of the kind of, like, they love a lot of the main over a billion dollars.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're very popular when they came out.
• 1:10:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, I don't think anyone gave enough of a shit about the stories to revisit them very often.
• 1:10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like people will get together like, hey, let's watch the Lord of the Rings movies over the weekend.
• 1:10:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they still really care about those stories and those characters.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think when it came to those transformers movies, those were such empty spectacle that a lot of people just wanted to go see empty spectacle.
• 1:10:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: they have no desire to revisit it because we have new empty spectacles and we have other movies that are both spectacular and good.
• 1:10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think those are dying out.
• 1:10:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think those are, I like some of the later ones.
• 1:10:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think something Bumblebee is fun.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the Transformers One, the animated movie is actually pretty excellent.
• 1:11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But those Michael Bay movie are done.
• 1:11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even the good ones are junk.
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like the best Michael B.
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jets over the movies are not good movies with a good story or interesting characters.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're just superficial and I think that tends to die out very quickly.
• 1:11:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
• 1:11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is it for we've got, male.
• 1:11:27
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• 1:12:16
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• 1:12:27
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• 1:12:44
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• 1:13:02
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• 1:13:03
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• 1:13:23
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• 1:13:26
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• 1:13:32
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• 1:14:02
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• 1:14:10
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• 1:14:12
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