Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Historic Preservation | Niles Parker | S8 E17

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Future of Historic Preservation | Niles Parker | S8 E17 · FUTURE OF XYZ

• 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:16:20 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this week's edition of Future of XYZ. Niles Parker is joining us for a conversation about the future of historic preservation. Niles, welcome to the Future of XYZ. 00:00:16:22 - 00:00:19:07 Speaker 2 Thanks, Lisa. Great to be with you, too. 00:00:19:09 - 00:00:47:02 Speaker 1 well, I'm thrilled you're here as the executive director or Gosnell executive director of the Nantucket Historical Association. plus a long standing museum background and masters in museum studies from Cooperstown among other things. You really have a long and and storied history in, in historic preservation and cultural work, I would argue, as a cultural steward. 00:00:47:04 - 00:01:07:19 Speaker 1 we're going to be talking about the specifics, really, of kind of what Nantucket Historical Association and so many other organizations like it around the world do. So let's start, as we always do with, my favorite question, in context of your expertise in today's conversation, how do we define historic preservation? 00:01:07:21 - 00:01:29:10 Speaker 2 Oh, I think historic preservation, it's important to note, is a very dynamic practice, one that I think at its outset and still in some ways is about obviously preserving a building or an object or posterity or preserving history. I think that is somewhat rapidly coming to mean a whole lot of other things. And I think we'll get a chance to talk about. 00:01:29:11 - 00:01:47:12 Speaker 2 But, who gets to select what’s saved. How is it saved. And importantly, I think looking beyond just the structure itself, maybe the means for building the structure or said artifact and the processes that are behind what it is that we're saving. 00:01:47:14 - 00:02:13:12 Speaker 1 It's super interesting. I mean, the NHA, as you call it, the Nantucket Historical Association, preserves as well as interprets and shares diverse stories, in this case of the island of Nantucket, off the coast of Massachusetts with audiences through its collection. But properties, programs, research and a lot more. In my experience, I often see historic preservation as something that is. 00:02:13:14 - 00:02:33:08 Speaker 1 I hate to say this, but reserved for very wealthy communities such as Nantucket generally is, and or those where there is kind of a very active civil engagement with cultural and historic interest. Simply, do you agree or disagree with that being the case? 00:02:33:10 - 00:02:57:05 Speaker 2 So I think there's certainly a history of historic preservation being located in typically wealthier communities. I'm not sure that's true as much anymore. I think there's barely been a, targeted effort to think about what's important to save and how that transcends certain zip codes, and that whose stories are important to save and whose stories are important to tell. 00:02:57:07 - 00:03:18:13 Speaker 2 And I think from that standpoint, the field's made great progress, you know, over the last 20 or 30 years. And so it's been much more democratized, if you will, from that standpoint, I know I do think sorry, I do think the whole issue of civic involvement is critical. And wherever you have a really successful historic preservation district, you're going to typically have high civic engagement. 00:03:18:15 - 00:03:44:05 Speaker 1 It makes sense. And do you sense, and I'm thrilled to hear that. As someone who spends a lot of time in Europe and on each coast of the U.S., but also works for an international, you know, design institute. I'm curious about the difference between Nantucket, obviously, is, a tiny old maritime, you know, whaling town kind of community from back in the day, globally speaking 00:03:44:05 - 00:03:50:17 Speaker 1 are there major differences between what historic preservation looks like here and elsewhere? 00:03:50:19 - 00:04:26:23 Speaker 2 So really interesting question. And, I'll push back slightly on the notion of, of Nantucket being this tiny, sort of little whaling town. I mean, it is tiny, you know, no question about it. But, Nantucket, even at the height of its whaling powers was an uber globally connected island. It had contacts in almost every corner of the world, trading partners with, you know, England and France and literally the Pacific Ocean, some of the first to discover the Pacific. 00:04:26:23 - 00:04:49:02 Speaker 2 So Nantucket has always been this very connected, very global place, at least since the 1760s. and in some ways, that's as true today. More true today than ever. people from all over the world come to Nantucket. I mean, if we were to walk out this door right now it's packed out there with people from around the world. 00:04:49:04 - 00:05:18:17 Speaker 2 There's a brand to Nantucket that's known around the world. I think a lot of that, though, stems from the early historic preservation efforts that were made here on the island. Nantucket, was one of the first and still one of the largest historic districts on the National Register. and Nantucket has always sort of taken pride in preserving what's here and how that feeds into the sense of place. 00:05:18:19 - 00:05:49:00 Speaker 2 And so I think that, you know, we've had a leg up on the US in some ways for most of the US in some ways for that work that's happened here as it relates to the international, you know, the question that you asked about, I think it's much more common in other countries, you know, particularly in Europe, where you just have that sensibility sort of built into, society and expectations and the architecture and how people have lived for hundreds, if not thousands of years. 00:05:49:02 - 00:06:16:02 Speaker 1 It's, it's it's really interesting, to think about and that sense of place, as you say, kind of preserving what's here and how that feeds into a sense of place, as you say, like Europe, the Middle East have have known that for so long. And other places in the world have known that for longer than we have. I want to jump into some of the technical aspects, because historic preservation isn't one thing, and it's not just alone. 00:06:16:03 - 00:06:35:11 Speaker 1 I mean, if you think about buildings, you know, it requires architects and landscape architects and engineers, but it also requires craftspeople and investors and again, communities. What are the kind of factors, run as quickly through just for people listening, like as we think about the future of this, like who needs to be involved in historic preservation? 00:06:35:13 - 00:07:09:07 Speaker 2 It's such an important question because, I think it's all rapidly changing and, something that I want to get to is the impact of climate, on this, which is changing every day. And so, you know, I think, first of all, bringing a different mindset to how we think about historic preservation involves people at the policy level, certainly involves homeowners, contractors, people who are doing the work on the building, to bring that mindset to, hey, there are elements of this building or this, this place that are important to save for these following reasons. 00:07:09:09 - 00:07:50:07 Speaker 2 So I think that always needs to be reexamined. I think there tends to be, over time, changes in popular culture that maybe people start shifting to, tear it down, gotta get the inside out. And I think we're always fighting that and trying to, you know, educate people or I know you don't need to do that. that being said, I do think there are really important materials questions, training questions for the people who are doing the work on the structures themselves, where the contractors, the carpenters, the roofers, the masons, you know, it's not necessarily, you don't necessarily want to rip out certain pieces of wood when a lot of contractors now think 00:07:50:08 - 00:08:09:20 Speaker 2 it's just going to be cheaper and easier for me to rip out that post, and they can do a scarf joint or something to salvage part of it and save it for these following reasons. So I think, again, education on those techniques, on why it's important in some cases, often is better to leave some of that original fabric in place. 00:08:09:22 - 00:08:16:10 Speaker 2 and so that, you know, building that mindset, having that education, I think is critically, critically important. 00:08:16:12 - 00:08:41:20 Speaker 1 It leads to a question of craft. But I want to I want to just ask a very timely question that isn't really about historic preservation at all, but about conversion. So as we're recording this in mid-July, there is simultaneously in New York City right now, a Pfizer old corporate headquarters building that has, become structurally irrelevant in its conversion to residential. 00:08:41:22 - 00:09:05:02 Speaker 1 There are a lot of conversations about why that is, but basically, a block radius of buildings has been evacuated because of this. I'm curious because that's not historic preservation, per se. It's it's it's reuse and repurpose. But if this were a landmark building, would this have ever been possible? Is there like an argument for historic preservation 00:09:06:02 - 00:09:12:20 Speaker 1 even when something isn't necessarily per se historic or needing to be preserved? 00:09:12:22 - 00:09:32:24 Speaker 2 so again, I can't speak too much about the specific instance in New York. I’ve read about it. I, you know, I know a little bit about it. but a lot I don't know about it, but I think it raises a good point. and, yes, I mean, I think in many instances people who are building structures long ago had techniques and tools that were working perfectly well. 00:09:33:01 - 00:09:54:02 Speaker 2 And in some cases, some of the things that we are now introducing to buildings, chemicals, off gassing, you know, certain, connectors, joinery, things like that aren't doing as good a job and may in fact be causing more harm to the occupants than what was being done years and years ago. So I think it's not always new is better for sure. 00:09:54:04 - 00:10:19:00 Speaker 2 And then if you bring that mindset to thinking about what is still good, what might be salvageable. I think oftentimes you end up with a better product, probably sometimes a safer product and a product that has more charisma character to it. Often I think that brings so much sense of place to a building that I think is sorely lacking, in so much of construction. 00:10:19:00 - 00:10:43:19 Speaker 1 And so much of it totally where it gets value engineered. let's talk about craft quickly, because you just talked about joinery and masonry and, you know, these are things that are often overlooked, certainly in the U.S.. I think, again, coming back to kind of that global perspective, this I mean, the human skill, this is something that, frankly AI is not going to be able to do for us. 00:10:43:19 - 00:11:06:08 Speaker 1 Right? Is like molding. I mean, if you think about some or a gold leaf or any of these physical touches that really made historic buildings spectacular. And of course, those are just two little gilded examples. but it's a creative process that really shapes a sense of heritage. And as you've mentioned a number of times preserves, preserved culture. 00:11:06:10 - 00:11:16:10 Speaker 1 especially in response to AI and synthetic reproduction. What are some of the efforts that are being taken to preserve the skill set of, of craftsmen. 00:11:16:12 - 00:11:59:03 Speaker 2 I’m hearing this more and more. and I think, you know, some of this was, really became evident during Covid, when you saw people starting to really become interested in building or doing something with their hands or crafting and things like that. But this transcends Covid, no question about it. There is, we're seeing, a really massive interest in, building and making in certain kinds of craft activities that I think is probably a lot about some kind of pushback against AI in this world that we're creating, in which algorithms and everything else is just sort of dictated by your feed and by your interests that they know about. 00:11:59:05 - 00:12:26:21 Speaker 2 And taking our jobs. Yeah. You know, so what are we as humans left with and I think, as you just pointed out rightly, here is something that we can do that we can control, that we can still own and make and it's tactile and we can build and that's ours. And that's not going to be taken away that that sense of delight and learning and making that can't be taken away by AI and I think people are realizing that. 00:12:26:21 - 00:12:51:14 Speaker 2 I think it's it's becoming, a really, really important part of a national conversation around what are things that make us human and what can we retain and why. Why do we need to hold onto that tightly. it's just it's fun, like, you know, building and making it's fun. Craft is great. It's fun. And so but I think and I actually think we've we've gone pretty far down the path, particularly when it comes to building. 00:12:51:16 - 00:13:12:22 Speaker 2 And I hear this from builders here on the island and people who are doing projects on their homes that next generation, I don't want to say kids, but younger people, you know, who have grown up digital natives and on their phones all the time doing it, and many of them didn't have shop class in school curriculum growing up. 00:13:12:24 - 00:13:37:03 Speaker 2 We now are coming in where there's not a lot of training for people in these traditional skills to pick up the hammer and go build a house. And I think it's incumbent on us to really think about how do we, as communities, help to build that generation, that next generation of skilled craftsmen, craftspeople and artisans so that they can have a meaningful role in society? 00:13:37:03 - 00:13:50:09 Speaker 2 That's not just algorithm, not just AI, not just computer based. yeah. It's I think that's really reaching sort of a fever pitch. 00:13:50:11 - 00:13:53:11 Speaker 1 That's good. I mean, I think that's that's great. 00:13:53:13 - 00:13:54:00 Speaker 2 Yeah. 00:13:54:02 - 00:14:29:06 Speaker 1 Right. Awareness is the first step. Yeah. We've talked about the that historic preservation is about culture and community. But I think you started talking about like adaptive reuse and modeling and promoting sustainability as well as frankly, you talked about like the Nantucket brand, right? I mean, that's that's creating economic value in 2026 and looking ahead like, how are these various arguments between culture, community and sustainability and economics all kind of like, who's winning, right? 00:14:29:08 - 00:14:51:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. So I think we're we're really leaning into this on Nantucket right now. The issue of salvage and reuse is something that I think was threatened for a long time, where you have, again, these 18th, 19th century homes with beautiful interiors being gutted. we have exteriors are by and large, preserved by historic district commission, but they have no say on the inside. 00:14:51:08 - 00:15:24:01 Speaker 2 And so they're being gutted in many cases, just made all white. You know, contemporary, modern. And so you got these shells of 18th, 19th century houses with these white interiors and, I think that and so these interiors, perfectly good materials are being thrown into the landfill. And then you've got a put it on, but it wasn't on the landfill theory on the island was thrown into a truck, put onto the ferry, put onto another truck, put onto a train and is being shipped to Ohio to be put into a landfill. 00:15:24:03 - 00:15:27:07 Speaker 2 I mean, the cost of that is insane. 00:15:27:09 - 00:15:30:01 Speaker 1 In money and and and carbon. 00:15:30:03 - 00:15:51:08 Speaker 2 Carbon, exactly. So I think what you're starting to see here is a real pushback on that. And the idea of how can you create an ecosystem and a market for reusable materials on the island so you're not, you know, going through all that waste and that you're selling this material, and we're trying to show people how this material is still valuable, how it can be used. 00:15:51:10 - 00:16:10:06 Speaker 2 Again, in many cases, it's it's perfectly good material, as good as something you're going to go buy anywhere else, often better. and it has that, you know, that character to it to it has a story behind it. And so I think that's really becoming important part of what we're trying to talk about here on the island. There are several organizations that are taking a lead on this. 00:16:10:06 - 00:16:34:01 Speaker 2 And, I hope that's something that really begins to, get some momentum behind it, you know, already is, but I think that's true not just on Nantucket. I just, I think that mindset of, you know, not ripping something out if it could be used as is, we're in a different scenario. doesn't always come to people's minds first, I think newer is better. 00:16:34:01 - 00:16:49:13 Speaker 2 And I think, again, an educational moment needs to be had around. Look at the waste that's generated, as you say, not just in materials, but in carbon transportation and things like that. So I, I'm hopeful actually, that we're coming around on that again. And I think we're going to see some real progress. 00:16:49:15 - 00:16:59:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, and also I mean supply dwindling or cost rising, I mean makes it makes it makes the business case, better, which is, of course, in America, very, very material. 00:16:59:20 - 00:17:17:18 Speaker 2 That's right. I mean, it's it's always been money based. What's the best deal? And, but I think the impact of transportation and material costs and inflation and all those things, it's helping to make this point at the same time, like, well, and maybe we don't have to ship stuff off island to throw it away. 00:17:17:24 - 00:17:38:07 Speaker 1 Completely. Well, I think one of the things that you keep kind of like, I won't say dancing around because you've addressed it head on, but I'm not sure that listeners will have pulled this out yet, which is preservation or historic preservation, just in the name, sounds like it's historic and backwards looking, but in fact, it's it's not static and it's not backward looking. 00:17:38:07 - 00:18:11:18 Speaker 1 It's really very much a living practice, because it's ensuring both what we're talking about materiality, traditional techniques, you know, buildings themselves, communities, layouts remain relevant and in dialog with the present. in, in the work that you've done across, I mean, museums and preservation organizations and educational institutes kind of what's the red thread or the appropriate balance between what I'll call stewardship and and storytelling and. 00:18:11:20 - 00:18:42:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think that, you know, at the heart of it all is, I think, storytelling, you know, even when, you know, back when historic preservation was a nascent field, it wasn't about whose stories are you saving and what stories are you telling? And and I think it still is. I think that the preservation and I think that some of the craft and the processes we're now, we're seeing in preservation, increasingly, we're not seeing that as nostalgia. 00:18:42:07 - 00:19:19:16 Speaker 2 We're not seeing it as just sort of saving the past. We're really seeing it as this, attempt to look forward, embrace sustainability, think about whose stories are we saving, why it matters to community. I think that is I hope that is I think we've got a ways to go on this, but I hope that that is something that is really embraced by this generation, younger generation who I think, as I said earlier, are starting to push back against AI, algorithmic decision making, that really lacks often character and place. 00:19:19:18 - 00:19:34:13 Speaker 2 And this is something that they can be directly involved in. That is all about those things. And so I think if there is a if there's a through line through it, I do think it's about storytelling and I hope it's about sustainability. 00:19:34:15 - 00:20:03:01 Speaker 1 I mean, I, I certainly hope so too. as someone as, as the global head of sustainability for design organization, you spent your career kind of in this institutional development slash curatorial strategy kind of intersection in historical preservation. I think. I mean, what we just talked about is kind of like taking something historic and and contextualizing it for today. 00:20:03:03 - 00:20:26:18 Speaker 1 Is there is there a modern audience you've talked about, like the growth in the younger generation, but do you see an unfurling evolution of being able to protect historic structures while also making the relevant? I mean, I think about what's happening in the Middle East and the bombing of, of of complete areas of, of historical context. You don't get that back. 00:20:26:18 - 00:20:51:02 Speaker 1 Do you think that some of the positive aspects of what you guys are doing in Nantucket, for instance, combined with the very negative aspects of disregard that's happened in places like Shanghai, as it's gotten built or in cases of war across, you know, the Middle East and Africa, most notably, do you think? And of course, natural disaster in everything, when we lose something, does it make people appreciate it more? 00:20:51:02 - 00:20:55:05 Speaker 1 Or do you think that this is just pushback strictly against technology? 00:20:55:07 - 00:21:16:07 Speaker 2 No, I think I think you raise an important point. I think we do appreciate it more when things are gone. and in fact, I'm glad you asked this question. Over the last couple of years, we've been partnering with ICCROM, the International Center for the Restoration of Cultural Property based out of Rome. And they do incredible work around the world. 00:21:16:09 - 00:21:37:21 Speaker 2 You know, responding to, emergency situations, responding to areas of war. How do you save cultural heritage from some of these things? Or if it is lost, what can we do to start working with communities to repair that? and so for the last several years, we've been bringing, 10 to 12, professionals from around the world who come to Nantucket for a month. 00:21:37:23 - 00:22:02:15 Speaker 2 and the idea is that they're going to work on one of our properties that we're working on to bring their best experience and thinking with them. They also each bring one project that they've been working on from their home countries. And then we get to, you know, workshop all of that together as a group. And so over the course of that month, we're talking about issues like climate change, like material impact from climate change, rising sea level, but they're also bringing their own case studies. 00:22:02:15 - 00:22:25:12 Speaker 2 And so we've had, professionals from many places, as you've just suggested, from the Middle East, from Saudi Arabia, from Japan, from Australia, from Africa, from the Caribbean, who each bring their, project and also the unique circumstances that they're struggling with. And I think one of the nice things is that we get some great feedback. 00:22:25:14 - 00:22:53:16 Speaker 2 We've got this great cohort now of professionals around the world who are staying in touch and kind of building this team, if you will, of, preservation professionals who are leaning on each other or are inspired by each other. As I say, they're all staying in touch. And I think what I'm learning from that and from that group is that, you know, I think some countries are doing amazing, amazing work in this regard and are ahead of us in some ways. 00:22:53:18 - 00:23:16:00 Speaker 2 but there is that growing sense of the importance of place, artifact of structure and again, the stories that are behind those. And how do we preserve those stories? How do we preserve the techniques used in building these things and why that matters? And that doesn't seem to be unique to any one country? I think that's a human thing. 00:23:16:02 - 00:23:45:07 Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't think it's necessarily about a push back to technology. I do think it's, you know, in some, in some sense, response to, some of the unfortunate, you know, emergency issues, natural disasters, war, things like that that we have to deal with. But, I am, at the end of it, I'm really heartened by the seemingly universal human need to preserve these stories that matter. 00:23:45:09 - 00:24:11:13 Speaker 1 I love that, and I think, you know, one of the things as as the executive director at Nantucket Historical Association, which I mean, there's notably one of the countries, you know, most significant local history, history institutions. You've instituted a program that's called heritage craft as cultural stewardship. in terms of this initiative and kind of the critical evolution of how you all approaching preservation, can you just talk about that briefly? 00:24:11:13 - 00:24:21:23 Speaker 1 Because if I've understood it correctly, it's not only preserving actual physical objects of the building, but it's also what we were talking about, which is knowledge, skill and culture. 00:24:22:00 - 00:24:59:06 Speaker 2 That's right. Yeah. At the heart of it is what happens when these people with this experience, with the knowledge of these processes, making these various materials, what happens when they retire or are they, you know, the person who's that next generation is picking up those tools to do it next. And what we're seeing is that, there is not necessarily that next generation trained ready to go, not because of lack of interest, necessarily just because of lack of training opportunities, and that we have kind of focused on new and shiny rather than tradition and what's worked in certain and certain, skill sets. 00:24:59:08 - 00:25:23:00 Speaker 2 I think in England, the UK is just pretty far out in front of us. They've got something called the Red List of Endangered crafts. they are really, pushing this concept forward and doing a great job at it. That's something that, we were inspired by. We've been teaching certain craft classes for 25 years now, anyway, here at Nantucket. 00:25:23:02 - 00:26:05:23 Speaker 2 But it really began to get us thinking when we were looking at, some of the historic preservation we were doing with these professionals from around the world when we have our Nantucket by Design week event here on the island. And then we're looking at the heritage craft programs that we were doing, this idea, thinking around, how can we help not just be a steward for preserving, as you say, these objects of these buildings, but actually be a catalyst for creating training programs and space and opportunities for people to learn about and enjoy learning about making and creating and having the necessary training to be those, you know, stewards along with 00:26:05:23 - 00:26:27:22 Speaker 2 us. So and it's the Feedback's been fantastic. It's really, really exciting to see it again, not unique to us, but it's something that I think is a growing, there's a growing sense of excitement around it. The UK, I think it's doing a bang up job around this issue. exciting to see what they're doing up there. 00:26:27:22 - 00:26:33:17 Speaker 2 And I think this is something too, that's just going to kind of keep rolling out over the next decade. 00:26:33:19 - 00:26:50:24 Speaker 1 I love hearing that. Okay, we're coming up on time, but I want to do a really quick round of quick answers, which is like, one sentence or less. And the questions I'm going to say is like, explain your over under as a gambling man, as a I don't know if you're a gambling man, I'm just making up. 00:26:50:24 - 00:27:00:02 Speaker 1 But pretend you are. In this case, you're over under on the next 10 to 20 years, in terms of historic preservation about each topic. You ready? 00:27:00:04 - 00:27:00:23 Speaker 2 Yep. 00:27:01:00 - 00:27:05:05 Speaker 1 Global trade and supply chain. 00:27:05:07 - 00:27:13:08 Speaker 2 Oh. So, so, so sorry. Do you want me to say under or do you want to qualify it somehow? 00:27:13:10 - 00:27:19:21 Speaker 1 under over and and you can say a word why. 00:27:19:23 - 00:27:27:20 Speaker 2 Under. I'm fairly pessimistic about politics and, some of the thorny issues related to supply chain. 00:27:27:22 - 00:27:30:10 Speaker 1 Historic scholarship. 00:27:30:12 - 00:27:35:10 Speaker 2 Over big time over. I just think there's so much burgeoning interest. 00:27:35:12 - 00:27:38:21 Speaker 1 Scrimshaw. You have to explain what it is too. 00:27:38:23 - 00:28:04:14 Speaker 2 So scrimshaw is the carving of, imagery or making things using, whale, whale tooth or whalebone. I'm going over a sentence. Sorry. used to be incredibly popular for collecting. for collectors. It's it's been under now for a couple of decades. there are important, restrictions in place in terms of trading ivory, obviously, that need to be in place. 00:28:04:14 - 00:28:11:02 Speaker 2 And so I think that limits the chance to really go over and make it very collectible again. But I think it's going to probably be 5050. 00:28:11:04 - 00:28:21:19 Speaker 1 Cool. talent development, we've talked about it a lot, but I'm going to give it to you in this context over under. 00:28:21:21 - 00:28:23:13 Speaker 2 Over. I'm optimistic. 00:28:23:15 - 00:28:26:06 Speaker 1 Meaningful public dialog. 00:28:26:08 - 00:28:28:07 Speaker 2 Over. 00:28:28:09 - 00:28:29:01 Speaker 1 An anything. 00:28:29:01 - 00:28:40:16 Speaker 2 I think I think that and that a lot of that's going to be driven by much of what we talked about. But again, people realizing this push back against AI, I think that's going to be a natural part of the conversation. 00:28:40:18 - 00:28:46:00 Speaker 1 Cool. cultural memory. 00:28:46:02 - 00:28:58:08 Speaker 2 Over. And as I said, that is universal. And I think there is just this growing sense of, why it's so important and why people care. 00:28:58:10 - 00:29:07:24 Speaker 1 last, last of the over unders. And it's not really an over under. What haven't I asked you about that you want to say if anything. 00:29:08:01 - 00:29:27:06 Speaker 2 You know, we're facing, we as a society, I think are facing so many challenges. It just feels like we're spinning, you know, as we go a million miles an hour ahead into a world that people are afraid about and I might be saying, I'm making too much of AI, you know, and, and the threats that we face. 00:29:27:06 - 00:29:52:19 Speaker 2 But I it's my hope, you know, looking ahead, that this idea, what makes us humans what's special and how do we cultivate, passion that interested in learning and how do we preserve the work that we as humans can do that really does separate us from other species and from AI robots that are coming down the path. 00:29:52:21 - 00:30:09:01 Speaker 2 How do we do that? And I think at the at the heart of it lies place, lies history, lies craft lies the sense of making and finding a way to come together to preserve all that. I think that's really what really gives me a lot of hope at the end of the day. 00:30:09:03 - 00:30:24:23 Speaker 1 I love that it may you may have a similar answer, but our last question, Niles, is always the same. what is your greatest hope for the future of historic preservation in 25 years? Now, just to round numbers, we're going to say in 2050. 00:30:25:00 - 00:30:54:14 Speaker 2 So I think, I would echo much of what I just said in terms of our desire collectively to, work on preserving that. But I think that historic preservation can really play an important role when it comes to sustainability, salvage and reuse. in the face of climate change, I think there's a lot that we can do to help that conversation be less the climate change conversation be less about is it or isn't it, you know, do we have climate change or not? 00:30:54:20 - 00:31:21:02 Speaker 2 Yes. And much more focused. Right. And much more focused on solutions to how are we dealing with climate change, you know, how do we save this cultural heritage in really strategic, important ways that moves the needle past the politics that have just sort of created a quagmire around this issue for so long now? I think historic preservation, believe it or not, has a chance to really do that. 00:31:21:04 - 00:31:35:24 Speaker 1 I love that, Niles Parker, executive director of the Nantucket Historical Association, thank you so much for joining us today on Future of XYZ. it's a fascinating conversation that deserves much more time as all of our topics do. 00:31:36:01 - 00:31:38:09 Speaker 2 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you. 00:31:38:11 - 00:31:58:09 Speaker 1 For everyone watching, make sure that you subscribe and listen and leave a five star review on your favorite podcast platform, whether that's Apple or Spotify or Amazon or any of the others. and if you're listening and you didn't know, you can watch, we're available on YouTube, and also on Instagram at FutureofXYZ. 00:31:58:09 - 00:32:06:21 Speaker 1 And if design, we look forward to seeing you again in two weeks. Niles, thank you again. And, happy end of summer. 00:32:06:23 - 00:32:07:23 Speaker 2 Thank you.