Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 195. HGSE Global Citizen: Charli Kemp: Looking for the light and rooting oneself in love

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195. HGSE Global Citizen: Charli Kemp: Looking for the light and rooting oneself in love · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
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explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
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Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
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stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy. Hi, I am Doctor Charlie Kemp.
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I have invented a term. I'm Poly residential and I am
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based in Jamaica, Los Angeles and New York.
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Today I'm zooming in or coming to you from Jamaica, Montego
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Bay. Jamaica is normally my home, but
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also again, Los Angeles and New York.
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I've run a nonprofit that I founded and started in 2017.
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Change the tune and change the tune is called this.
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It's a multi entendre. We love to use music, but to use
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music as a transformative force as we create transformative
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learning experiences. Our goal is to revolutionize the
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learning space. So we do after school programs,
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summer programs, coaching. Professional development is big
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piece of artwork, but we do that with all kinds of organizations
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and all kinds of people. Amazing thank you so much,
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Charlie for for making time to be on the podcast.
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I'm very excited to have you and right off the bat, you know, I'm
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already just intrigued with these new terms and and also the
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incredible work that you're doing with your nonprofit and so
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Poly residential like that's that's awesome.
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I'll definitely, you know, speak more to to that and, and I'm
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excited to hear how, how you got to be Poly residential yourself.
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And yeah, so and then also the, the transformative nature of the
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work that you're doing in education is, is truly
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inspiring. I think it's, it's bold to say
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that the work you're doing is transformative.
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I think a lot of times when we think of people in like the
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different like public school spaces, there's just the sense
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of like, just get through the curriculum, get through the
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content, you know, objective hit objective this or that
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benchmark. But to say that the work that
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you're doing is transformative implies something deeper,
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something more profound and something tied to like their
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core. And I think in the times that
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we're living in, that's desperately what we need.
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And so I, I want to learn more about what brought you to that
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work, how you go about that work, what inspires you, right?
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Gets you up out of bed and makes you want to like really engage
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young people and help them along their own paths.
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So, yeah, I, I'd like to pass it over to you, Charlie, to, to
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speak about your, your journey as as an educator and yeah, what
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some of the major influences have been for, for you to, to
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bring you to, to, to the current work that you're doing with
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Change the Tune. Yeah, I think it was 4th grade.
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When I was a kid, there was a poem.
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We had to, everyone had to memorize a poem.
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It was a poem by Langston Hughes and I think it's called Crystal
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Stairs and it's no, it's called mother to son.
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And there's a line that says, well, son, I tell you, life for
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me ain't been no crystal stairs. It's had tacks in it, splints,
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boards torn up all the while I've been climbing.
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And it goes on to say like how the mom has been climbing.
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And I think I loved that poem. And I, I don't even know if I'd
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understood the true depths, but growing up, I so my parents
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split when I was like 2 1/2. And I'll try and make be brief
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with this, but my mom has been challenged with depression
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growing up and my dad was there, but he, I mean, they split.
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So then it was my mom who was the primary caretaker and he
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also moved to Portland, OR. We were in LA at the time.
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And so I didn't grow up wealthy. I grew up with some challenges
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in the household. And one of the things I remember
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as a kid, which kids now all say, but you say that's not
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fair. And my mom would be like, life's
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not fair. And then one day I realized I'm
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like, life's what you make it. And she's like, not really,
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honey. And so I think I'm also a Libra
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and ours is the scale of balance and justice.
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And so I've always like even as a kid, if we had a test, I would
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be advocating for a take home test.
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And teacher was like, OK, we'll do a take home test.
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Like I just, I originally wanted to be a lawyer.
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I had a aunt who was pretty successful financially and both
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of my parents are also very outspoken.
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So I think that mashup of who I was raised with and around, I
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think it made me want to be an outspoken person and inquest for
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like fairness and justice. Fast forward, I was going to go
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to law school and I didn't get into law school coming out of
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college. So I took a year off and then I
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applied to Teach for America simultaneously as lost as at
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simultaneously got into Teach for America the day before I got
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into law school. But I tell people I was too
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scared to go to law school, so I ended up going to do Teach for
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America in New York City in the South Bronx.
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Well, you can imagine if I walked around the first year
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being like law school would have definitely been easier than
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this. And I'm getting to the point of
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like the influences. There's my parents.
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But this piece of going into Teach for America, like I
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realized my mom was right. Life isn't fair like kids in the
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South Bronx. And eventually I also taught in
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East Harlem. Like the way our education
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system has been designed is not fair to be in a classroom that
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has no AC and it's 90° in the summer where there are kids who
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do have AC or to not have adequate materials and supplies
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or I can go on and on and on. But like we say that we have
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this like education system, but our education system is actually
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not a fair system. And so Fast forward, I taught
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for five years and I learned that it wasn't fair, but I
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really wanted to make it fair. So I started doing different
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things in the classroom. And so I think those are some of
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the foundational pieces for me that allowed me wanted me to.
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I left the class and went to Business School to start my own
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org. I didn't know who, what, when,
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where, how, but that's kind of how I got here.
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Wow, thank you so much for for taking us way back to to the 4th
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grade and speaking about these really big, you know,
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influencers in your life, like your your parents, particularly,
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it sounds like your mom and kind of, you know, really like
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through her own struggle trying to share like this is this is
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what I'm encountering. This is these are some of the
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her own pearls of, of wisdom. And I think what often is the
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case with young people is that we, we rebuff that and we, we
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challenge it, which is important.
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But then we also realized that, you know, while that kind of
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reality exists for lots of people, how can we then, you
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know, reshape that or transform that reality into something
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that, you know, really makes it more to that ideal of like what
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you were saying, like, you know, well, why not?
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Life is what you make of it. And probably there's another
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reframing of, you know, that now it's like life is what you like.
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I don't know, thinking of trying to incorporate the transform,
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like how you transform it or what with what purpose are you
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transforming it as well? And it sounds like all these
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different like, you know, potential career pathways that
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you were going to go down like law school, but then deciding,
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no, I'm going to pivot into education.
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And then now I'm going to pivot, you know, to like the business
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side, but for the purpose of education, like it, it provided
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necessary experience and like just texture around.
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Well, OK, now that I have my purpose, like how am I going to
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achieve that ends? But you know, for you to, you
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know, you, you, you say it so like it's, it's, it seems like,
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of course, that was like your purpose, right?
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To, to make the education system more fair or to create the kind
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of conditions so that, you know, kids who come from, you know,
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maybe it's low income, disadvantaged, marginalized
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backgrounds can, can actually grow up like enjoying learning,
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right? Wanting to go to school, wanting
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to imagine their future. But I'm sure that it was a, it
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was, it was a very rocky road for you in terms of I really
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identifying and having conviction in that purpose.
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And I'm just, I'm just curious because I think this is
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something that a lot of people struggle with, myself included.
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What, what does it mean to have like conviction in, in the work
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that you're doing, right? And the deeper purpose, because
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you articulated it so beautifully and so succinctly.
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But I'm sure to get to that point of refinement, there was a
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journey or there's a story behind it, and I'd love to hear
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more about that. Yeah, I think and I will name
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like I'm in this, I'm in a very transitional phase in my life.
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And so that conviction is shifting in what it looks like
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and what I'm like, my conviction is centering on, I think the
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gift of both of my parents. And they're, they're they my
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father passed, but they both were really powerful people who
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were clear on like they were clear.
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So for example, as you were talking about my purpose, I
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think it when I distill down my purpose, I think my biggest
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purpose is to show people that there are new possibilities and
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innovative ways to do the things that we think have to be done in
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certain ways. So for example, I don't know if
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we said this on this call, but like I used if a teacher was
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giving a test and I was like, we all not ready for it.
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Can we make it a take home test and like persuade the teacher to
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do that? That's a very like micro, but
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like I think I'm learning right now to listen to my body.
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And there's an energy that you feel, I feel in my chest
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sometimes that like speaks to me that says this is what is right.
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This is what is just. And when things feel unfair, it
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feels almost like you're in a prison.
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Like it's confining like that's like not real.
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And so one thing I want to explicitly name to is clear in
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this call, if you're, if you're listening to us, you may not see
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it, but I'm a black woman. And I think my mom set of
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experiences to your point earlier, like she did know how
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to explicitly say, I don't think she always said it's because I'm
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a black woman that I think things are unfair.
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And this is a set of treatments. But as I've grown older, I went
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to college, I went to Spelman College, which is a historically
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Black women's college, and we're taught a lot around how
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societies develop the systems, the structures, how race impacts
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that. So I think that was one of the
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initial places which a book we read you probably are familiar
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with is Pedagogy of the Oppressed.
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That was like the first book we read when we get there in this
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class called African Diaspora in the World, and it's written by
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Apollo. I always mispronounce it.
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It's Brazilian fairy. Yeah, Fairy.
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And the book is called Pedagogy of the Press, but there's a
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chapter that we have to read, The Banking System of Education.
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And I'm just getting to college. I'm 18 years old.
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And I read this chapter and it's all about how our whole worlds
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and our whole systems are like, basically, if you've ever read
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the book Animal Farm, like you're, it's like you're
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supposed to be factory workers so that we can like replicate
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the systems and keep things going and maintain status quo.
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So the way schools are designed, I'm making you just doing a
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bunch of breeding and writing in arithmetic so that you can go in
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and be a factory worker and do what I told you.
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Schools are not designed for people to be critical thinkers.
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Like test the test. You can do a multiple choice
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test. That's not really that hard.
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Like in my life, in my career, I haven't really needed tests.
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Like you are doing projects, you're working collaboratively
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together. So I didn't come growing up.
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I felt that in my spirit. And then I got there and I read
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this book and I'm like, yes, forgive me.
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I don't know if I'm allowed to, I'm allowed to curse.
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I'm like, this shit is stupid. Like what do you got me when
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they couldn't get a test for that makes no sense.
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I will, I will. Could use some more expletives.
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And so Spelman in that class was like light bulb moment.
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And then I'm like this university this well, it's a
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college. This college is going to be
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magical. And then I get there and they
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got me taking test. I'm like what you make me read
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this whole chapter for like I thought we was going to build
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the revolution. And then one of the things you
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see in society is like there is like espouse values versus
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inactive values. Come to find out Spelman was
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founded and funded by the Rockefellers.
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So we are again back into the system, funded like we want you
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to be thinking different, but we don't really have the confines
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or the structure to actually build a new system and allow you
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to do things in a different way. And not to say that we didn't do
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projects and what not, but it was still a lot of the learning
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was centered on whiteness and oppressive practices.
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And I was like this is not what I want.
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In the same vein too, I also had really revolutionary teachers
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and people. And so I think conviction means
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looking for the light and following the light, if that
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will. And it's a metaphorical light,
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but it's also a real light. It's like there's a friend of
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mine who says on course, off course, when you are doing,
14:00
making choices in your life, how do you feel when you're on
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course? So, for example, if I'm I'm a
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teaching fellow still at Harvard and I'm teaching the class and I
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get to share with people and engage, I feel on course, of
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course, might be me like doing a spreadsheet around finances.
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I don't really or writing a grant application.
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That's not my spirit. That just where's my benefactor,
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please, because that's not. But coming back to your point
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around like conviction, it's getting clear on what is
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liberation and freedom look like for all people.
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And then like chasing that, giving that like, I'm always
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thinking about not just myself, but connecting it to all and
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like making it fair. How do we make things fair?
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And then also recognizing I'm old enough and experienced
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enough to know that now I'm biased.
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I have a set of privileges that when I think things are fair,
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there are others who think they're not.
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And I need to be able to listen and be open.
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So I hope that answers. Oh yes, most definitely.
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And thank you so much for Charlie for really like
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wrestling with that because it is a like the word conviction.
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I don't think people just walk up on the street and just ask
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you like, what is your conviction in life?
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And, and like, and for you to like, you know, treat it with
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that seriousness of like really thinking like, like, yeah, where
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you're, as you said, like you're in a period of, of transition or
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this just kind of deeper reflection on like, how are you,
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you know, in like in, in this, this process of like growth,
15:39
right? Of like building a top, this a
15:41
foundation building, you know, upon the legacies, right, of
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those who came before you. You talked about your, your,
15:50
your parents, both of them being very outspoken and, and very
15:53
bold and, and direct. And, and I think that, you know,
15:57
really understanding how that is such an incredible gift, right?
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That I think people really seek clarity through that kind of
16:05
direct form of just telling you this is what it is.
16:09
And not just for the sake of trying to like tell you that
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they're right, but it's more like cutting through, I think a
16:14
lot of different layers. But I think of like bureaucracy
16:17
maybe, or just of like kind of like wishy washy.
16:20
What do you really mean? And, and I think that that's,
16:23
that's very important to really make progress to advance in
16:27
like, what are these new possibilities that you're
16:29
talking about? And you know, the, the
16:32
conversation that you had about, you know, this, this incredible
16:36
learning from like the this particular chapter in pedagogy
16:39
of the the oppressed. I think that, you know, to
16:43
cultivate like the critical mind is, is so important.
16:47
But often times then from there there's like this kind of like
16:50
horizon, right, of like, you know, like this new vantage
16:54
point of like, wow, what a view. I see all these inequities.
16:58
I see all of these things that are wrong, these injustices.
17:01
And rather than like kind of looking out and like, you know,
17:04
wonder of like, wow, like you're like looking out from a
17:06
skyscraper, it's more of like a shock and can maybe even, you
17:10
know, produce a feeling of like dismay.
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I would feel in terms of like, oh, I've been wronged.
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You know, I've been, I've been tricked.
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I've been, you know, like bamboozled, you know, all these
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things, But then then it, you know, comes down to to you
17:26
making the decision. Well, all right, there's work
17:29
that I can do. You know, I'm going to move in
17:31
this direction. And, you know, I was really
17:34
struck by what you shared about like, you know, conviction being
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like, like, it's like looking for the light, I think is how
17:41
you you framed it. And and definitely like when
17:44
when someone is like engaged in work and they truly are like
17:49
enjoying it, they're happy. They they like that they, they
17:52
light up, right. We we have that in for common,
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kind of like, you know, vocab vernacular, right?
17:57
Like people say that and it's so obvious that like, yeah, they're
18:00
on course. Look at how much conviction they
18:02
have in the work. Another framing that I was like,
18:05
I was recently reading a book by Daisaku Ikeda, who's a Japanese
18:11
philosopher, Buddhist leader. And, and it was a long these
18:15
times like the, the, the, the work of like, you know,
18:18
educators and like the value of education.
18:21
And instead of conviction, like he was using the word like, like
18:25
when someone's engaged in their studies, they need to have
18:27
passionate commitment. So maybe it's like a different
18:31
framing, but it's something that maybe, you know, in this
18:34
transition period, like Ioffer up to you as like something
18:37
where like, you know, it's not like copping from one thing to
18:41
another. I feel like commitment is still
18:43
a through line that we can stay with, like genuine authenticity.
18:46
But the conviction thing gets to like that deeper, like light
18:49
that emerges. That is also really hard to pin
18:51
down. And I don't know if you have any
18:53
thoughts about that. Yes.
18:55
So in Teach for America, I don't know if it was the actual
18:58
mission, but it's relentless pursuit of excellence.
19:01
And I used to as a teacher make my kids say like we are here for
19:05
relentless pursuit of excellence.
19:08
One of the other things my father growing up used to tell
19:10
me is you can do anything you put your mind to.
19:13
So imagine my mom being like life's not fair, but my dad
19:15
being like you can do anything you put your mind to.
19:17
Talk about the balance of that. But I do believe that you, but
19:23
so then there's the tension of, of both.
19:25
But I, I think I, I err on that. I can do anything I put my mind
19:28
to. And so when we talk about
19:32
relentless pursuit of excellence, I had a parent once
19:34
who said, you act like our kids are going to be president of the
19:38
United States. Like you're so and I'm like,
19:41
you're damn straight. I do like because there's a,
19:44
there's a like a meme or a call. It's like, what if the cure for
19:47
cancer is trapped inside a child who doesn't have access to high
19:52
quality education? Like to me, any and it that I
19:56
can do anything I put my mind to.
19:58
I believe that any individual that's like at my core that that
20:03
relentless pursuit of excellent. I I believe that every
20:06
individual can be excellent and it's not defined by what I
20:09
define excellence by. It's defined by like, what's
20:12
your passion and your vision and your mission and like.
20:17
You can realize that with adequate support.
20:19
I think another book is Outliers and it talks about like, it's
20:24
not just like people are like, oh, I'm successful and I'm a
20:28
black woman, forgive my friend, you're a fucking outlier.
20:32
Like if we look at the system and the numbers, it's not the
20:35
same. And not, not that every
20:37
successful black woman is an outlier, but like if we look at
20:40
the numbers and we look at fairness, there are constraints
20:45
and also structures that allow people to get to where they need
20:50
to be and forget. And maybe we should cut out the
20:52
fringe because I don't know if kids will listen to this, but I
20:55
think there are a set of conditions that make people
20:58
successful. For example, in our after school
21:00
program, we always feed kids and we feed our staff because you
21:04
come in and the school food sucks.
21:06
So I know that you need to eat and I know you need to be
21:08
satiated. We do mindfulness and and we do
21:11
that in most of our trainings too.
21:12
If we're, if we're working with people, we want to make sure
21:15
they're fed. If we're working with people, we
21:17
want to ground them because the world right now is a hot mess.
21:20
And like we need to come together and ground ourselves.
21:24
And so coming back to your point around like conviction, it's
21:29
almost like the inalienable rights we have in our in
21:32
America, which are questionable here, but like there are there
21:36
are things that we as humans should have and part of that is
21:40
we should be able to thrive. And so that's the conviction for
21:43
me. How do we all listen to this
21:46
song? I think it was Cardi B best
21:47
life. Like I want to live my everyone
21:49
should be able to live their best life.
21:51
And that's the conviction right there.
21:54
Wow, I, I love that. Thank you so much for, for
21:57
sharing. And I also feel like on top of
21:59
that conviction, it comes from what I'm gathering is that
22:04
there's like this, this belief, this like unwavering belief in
22:09
the potential of each, each student of yours, each learner
22:14
to become that, you know, next big leader, right?
22:18
That the next, you know, world class researcher who discovers
22:21
the cure for cancer. But it's, it stems from like
22:25
this core value, I think that you're Speaking of.
22:28
And, and it doesn't matter if you're in the, in the Bronx or
22:31
you're, you know, in Jamaica or you're in Los Angeles, Like, you
22:35
know, as long as there's, you know, a child in front of you
22:39
that wants to learn, like then you're going to go all in for
22:43
that relentless pursuit of excellence that you were saying,
22:45
because anything less than that would be a disservice, right?
22:49
Because you know, you've, you've bought into that, that mission
22:52
and you're saying, I'm going to give it my all because I would
22:55
imagine, you know, for your from your own like upbringing, like
22:58
you had people within your community, maybe specific
23:02
teachers, like people who just saw that potential in you and
23:07
wanted to cultivate that in you, right.
23:09
And so trying to pay that forward.
23:11
I think it's so important. And, and then, you know, you
23:14
were speaking though, like that there, there's these kind of
23:18
like larger, Oh, hold on, before I get into that, I, I did want
23:21
to point out like, you know, in the work that you're doing, you
23:23
know, change the tune. You, you said something really,
23:27
I think so, so profound, right, Because we think, oh, we just
23:31
need to give them curriculum. We just need to tell them like,
23:33
this is the syllabus and this is how they're going to learn.
23:36
But you said, no, like you, you, they need to be satiated.
23:39
They need to have food, right? Did they, did they have a proper
23:42
meal? Did they have a healthy meal?
23:44
And, you know, how are you going to learn if you're thinking like
23:47
all your thoughts go to your stomach?
23:50
So I just, you know, wanted to call, call that out because I
23:52
feel like, you know, it's, it's, it's so true.
23:55
Like a lot of, you know, schools, you know, like that,
23:58
like public schools, that's where like children get their
24:01
meal, right? And they rely upon that.
24:04
So like really kind of like understanding the, the larger
24:07
kind of like just totality of where the student is and how
24:11
that you can best support them to, to learn.
24:13
I think it's, it's so important. And so I, I wanted to kind of
24:17
have more, you know, I, I would like to learn a little bit more
24:21
about like the, the work that you do at change the tune
24:23
because you know, in, in a sense that you've been, you know,
24:26
like, you know, studied various different, you know,
24:29
universities, you've taken different tracks.
24:31
You've like focused your attention on business and
24:34
education, education leadership. And, and all of that is kind of
24:38
like funneling into, you know, these like efforts to like
24:42
create these after school programs and, and educational,
24:45
you know, yeah, educational programs.
24:48
So I'd love to hear a little bit more about kind of what, what
24:51
you guys are doing, you know, on the ground and how that ties
24:57
into this like deeper conviction of like really bringing out the
24:59
full potential in in each, each child.
25:03
Yeah. Thank you again for this
25:06
opportunity. I think so at our core right
25:10
now, what we're currently doing, just pragmatically, we run this
25:15
summer. We had our 8th summer at USC
25:17
where we have about 50 kids from not just Los Angeles like we
25:21
have kids come in from Arizona and Texas this year.
25:24
It's a completely free summer camp for kids ages 10.
25:27
I think the oldest we've had is probably 18 at a point and it's
25:32
a four week day camp where kids do mindfulness, yoga, art,
25:37
music, field trips around STEAM. And like our culminating project
25:43
is they create social justice business plans.
25:47
We run an after school program at a local Los Angeles school
25:50
and we do kind of all those things envelope in gardening and
25:54
cooking because we have the space and time and energy to do
25:56
that as well. And then we also our biggest
26:02
piece of our work is developing leaders as in professional
26:06
development and then doing executive coaching.
26:08
We work with some justice serving organizations, Oakland
26:12
Unified and Justice Serving Network, Oakland Unified summer
26:15
learning division. We work with them helping them
26:17
build out the capacity of their summer leaders.
26:19
And then also the Justice Serving Network has about 46
26:23
organizations that serve justice impacted youth.
26:26
We've also worked with New York for the last three or four
26:29
years. They're foster care
26:30
coordinators. And if I were to distill down
26:34
kind of what we do and then I'll both ways to your point around
26:39
leadership, I don't know how political you want to get, but
26:45
there is a dearth of leadership in our world in general.
26:49
I think people if we talk a lot about Maslow's hierarchy of
26:54
needs, but Maslow's is about self actualization, which is
26:58
problematic. That's why we operate in silos.
27:00
That's why we separate the head and the body when we're
27:04
learning, when it's all connected and like we should
27:06
think about the things because if I'm just at the top of his
27:09
pyramid is self actualization, but he took it from the
27:13
Blackfoot nation, which it's all about at the top.
27:17
It's community actualization and then cultural perpetuity.
27:21
So for example, when people were like climate change is not real,
27:25
that's that selfish stuff. That's people operating in
27:28
silos. So what I believe, what we
27:32
believe in change the tune is our education system has
27:35
socialized us into being bad leaders.
27:38
The reason why we have bad leaders is because the way our
27:42
education system works, we are not conditioned to think about
27:46
what would it look like if I don't just care about myself,
27:49
but I want to be a good steward to ensure that our lands, our
27:53
world, our people are successful and they thrive in life.
27:57
So for example, if I'm doing a math test, what does that have
28:00
to do with the world versus in our programs?
28:03
You're creating a social justice business plan where you have to
28:05
design A financial model where you're actually solving A
28:09
sustainable development goal issue.
28:10
So for example, world hunger kids have come up with a project
28:15
where they've built in a protein based cereal at a super low cost
28:19
that they can be able to feed the homeless people and be able
28:21
to sell at a tasty, nutritious and delicious.
28:24
And then they price pointed it and think thought about like the
28:27
money that they would be able to first of all, the cost, but then
28:29
to be able to use to impact people.
28:32
Or this year we've also introduced kids into nanochips.
28:36
Kids came up with a teddy bear that activates with a nanochip
28:41
when it like, for example, if you if there's been a child
28:45
abuse allegation, they have to have that teddy bear in the
28:47
house. And so if they hear yelling or
28:49
screaming or any kind of loud noise, it activates, it starts
28:51
recording and it can alert the police.
28:53
Kids designed this in our summer camp.
28:55
There's a financial model that goes with this if they're
28:57
thinking about the hypothesis in the scientific method about how
29:00
it all works. And so, so I could just be like,
29:03
hey, let's do some more math problems and science problems
29:05
and have you guys write papers. Or I could have you think about
29:08
what are some challenges we're facing in our community and how
29:11
do we design projects that we could actually actualize.
29:14
And so that empowers kids. They have to get up and present
29:17
in front of others. They have to work in teams
29:19
together so that when they're going to become the future
29:23
president, Congress, member, leader of a company, they're not
29:28
just thinking about themselves. They're thinking about others
29:31
and how to impact others. And like that's the goal of
29:35
change the tune. We do the same thing with our
29:36
teachers. I'm not just going to sit even
29:39
though I'm lecturing and this is a podcast, but like they might
29:42
make smoothies and they think about the health implication of
29:45
the smoothie, the mathematical ratio of the smoothie, how you
29:48
feel after having the smoothie. There's the interaction.
29:52
How are we going to decide what goes in the smoothie?
29:54
How did we listen to one another?
29:55
Like thinking about, OK, well, Scott's allergic to
29:59
strawberries. So even though I love
30:00
strawberries, maybe we can use blueberries and raspberries
30:03
because he can have those and but you know, the tension of
30:06
working together and making sure that everyone is nourished and
30:09
fed. And so all that to say, how do
30:13
we create better leaders? And you, it's not that you have
30:16
to lead 50 and 100 people, even leading ourselves to show up,
30:19
not just for ourselves before the collective.
30:24
Wow, that's, that's so amazing. You're doing incredible work.
30:27
And I'm, I'm so inspired by what you were sharing about, really
30:31
thinking of like the next generation of, of, of leaders
30:35
and, and then giving young people the opportunity, but also
30:39
giving them the full like, respect and credit from their
30:42
efforts that like, Hey, you can create valuable projects that
30:47
impact your community right now. And, and, you know, I, I find
30:52
that with like a lot of schools, we don't really stop to ask them
30:56
like, Hey, what are you seeing in your community that you want
30:58
to transform? We're we're just having them
31:01
come into the, the, the class. And then it's that lecture.
31:04
It's that, hey, this is the agenda.
31:06
This is what you need to do. This is going to help set you up
31:09
for the future when no one knows the future really is.
31:13
But I think that there's like this core, maybe it's a core
31:18
principle that you're, I feel like you're articulating in
31:21
terms of like understanding one's impact and having that
31:26
rooted in community in a very selfless way.
31:29
Right in. In a way, yeah.
31:31
You said two keywords, agenda. There are agendas for the
31:35
future, but I believe in Co constructing.
31:38
And so to your point, we can have an agenda for the future or
31:43
we could Co construct the future that we would want to be able to
31:45
see, which is really what I want kids to be able to do.
31:48
Like how do we? Yeah, there's an agenda and
31:51
there's a program that's broken and not designed for all.
31:55
Let's push that aside. What do we want to see and how
31:57
do we do that? And adults too.
32:00
It's not just kids. It's getting adults to see that
32:03
there are multiple ways in which we can do learning.
32:06
There are multiple ways to connect with youth.
32:08
There are multiple ways they can lead themselves and work
32:10
together with each other. True, definitely.
32:14
And you know, this, this work that you're doing it just, I
32:18
feel like there's, there's so many like connections with the
32:22
concept of global citizenship. And I kind of wanted to ask your
32:25
thoughts if, if this is the term that, that you think about or
32:29
that you've yeah, like kind of implemented in a, in a very kind
32:34
of like intentional way with your programming.
32:36
Because you know, even just from like what you've already shared,
32:39
I'm like, my, my, my head is like buzzing with all these
32:42
different, you know, things. But I'm, I'm wondering if that
32:44
was like, you know, front of mind or if that's something that
32:47
you like later kind of realize like, Oh, I can incorporate
32:50
this, this concept more. Just kind of curious like where
32:54
that concept lands with you? So hugely one, I'll say the core
32:59
of our program since we've started has been the United
33:02
Nations Sustainable Development Goals.
33:04
And if you're not familiar with them, say what you will about
33:06
the United Nations, I have no like I'm not even getting into
33:09
that. I think the goals are a great
33:11
set of tools that can be used as structures to be able to build
33:20
collective solutions, structures, projects, programs.
33:26
So, for example, eliminating poverty, world hunger, life on
33:32
land, climate change, these are goals in the Sustainable
33:34
Development Goals. So when our kids are thinking
33:37
about what problems they want to solve, they're not thinking
33:39
about only local problems. These are global problems that
33:43
they're thinking about. That's one piece of it. 2 We've
33:47
run programs in the Bahamas. We've done I think five years of
33:51
a summer camp in the Bahamas. And this year we ran a teacher
33:53
workshop. We're moving a little bit more
33:56
with our partners into some teacher workshops.
33:59
I did my residency with Southern New Hampshire University Global
34:02
Education Movement and we did basically we started an
34:06
incubator and an accelerator that we ran for a year where we
34:09
worked with refugees in Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, Lebanon
34:13
and Rwanda. Our work I'm living in Jamaica
34:18
right now and I just want to call out like the hurricane
34:20
category five that came through and ravaged Jamaica is not
34:25
Jamaica's problem to solve. If we talk about climate justice
34:29
and like the campaign for how we show up just as individuals with
34:34
plastics and paper and like what how we care for this earth.
34:38
That is global work in the kids in LA will be working on
34:42
projects to support Jamaica anywhere.
34:45
We're doing things like we will be thinking about the
34:47
interconnection of our world. And so global citizenship to me
34:52
is there's a South African term, Ubuntu.
34:56
I am because we are. And that is not just I am
34:59
because we are in Jamaica. It's I am because the world is
35:03
collectively globally. And so I, I, that's part of what
35:07
education and learning needs to look like is we are
35:10
interconnected. We're not separate.
35:12
And like the ripple I send over here in these Caribbean waters
35:17
will transfer into the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Mediterranean
35:20
Sea. It all matters.
35:25
I couldn't agree with you more and thank you so much though.
35:28
The work that you're doing truly is, you know, not only coast to
35:31
coast within the US, but also international.
35:35
And it sounds like it's just kind of continuing to to build
35:39
right with new projects, new new initiatives.
35:42
And, and, and, and maybe a follow up question that I have
35:46
is like, in terms of like, you know, your students in Los
35:50
Angeles, thinking about the students in Jamaica and building
35:54
projects specifically for them. Maybe it's, you know, in terms
35:58
of disaster relief because of the hurricane.
36:01
That might be something more kind of, you know, relevant and
36:03
top of mind. But like, are there
36:06
opportunities for them to like actually connect with the other
36:10
group of students? And is there like a component of
36:13
like, I don't know if it's visiting them or if, you know,
36:15
if that's not possible connecting, you know, virtually.
36:19
And like I'm just wondering like what the the role that
36:22
friendship plays in this and how you approach friendship?
36:26
Yeah, I think those are great ideas, concepts.
36:30
I'll say a couple of things. During the pandemic, we ran our
36:33
Los Angeles and the Bahamas summer camp online at the same
36:36
time. So kids were all in one cohort
36:38
together and it was beautiful and magical.
36:40
And then the pandemic went away and we went in person and it was
36:44
a lot harder to bring them together, which is, again, the
36:47
human piece. So that is something on me that
36:50
I'm consistently thinking about. Also in our incubator
36:54
accelerator that we ran during the pandemic, it was people in
36:57
Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, all on one call together.
37:03
We're thinking about the ways in which we can connect them
37:06
together. I think I mentioned to you, I'm
37:09
in transition. And so part of my challenge as a
37:11
leader is to figure out how to empower and equip people to do
37:14
things beyond me. My hope, one of my dreams of the
37:19
future is to build a retreat space for kids and teachers.
37:23
Might not be under Change the Tune, but in my next iteration
37:27
of work. And so I think there will be a
37:29
lot more opportunities when we build our own physical space to
37:32
bring people together across the globe.
37:36
I think that's that's great. That sounds like a fantastic
37:38
idea. And it's also just so admirable
37:42
how you know, you've already worked so hard and like created
37:46
such an incredible organization and network, right of, of
37:51
educators and, and activists and you know, just good people right
37:56
to do this work. And yet you're, you're also
37:59
thinking about, you know, like who are your successors, I guess
38:03
is one way of putting it right. Who's going to take the mantle
38:06
and continue this work? And then also looking into
38:10
future projects or future organizations.
38:13
And so I'm, I'm, I'm curious like, because you're the founder
38:17
of, of change the tune. So could you maybe like give us
38:21
some insight into like, what does it take to be the founder
38:24
of, of anything? Like I, I'm just wondering
38:26
because it entails a lot of hardship, but I also, I'm
38:31
curious about the, the sense that like, you know, you
38:34
probably had moments where you were challenged to the point of
38:38
like, do I want to continue in those moments?
38:42
What helped you continue to take the next step and ultimately get
38:47
to where you are now? But I'm sure that there were
38:49
definitely moments maybe of maybe a doubt or a questioning
38:54
of is this the right path? I think probably people, all
38:58
founders experience that. But I'm just wondering like,
39:00
kind of what was it like for you and how did you overcome that?
39:03
Because clearly you did, right? You're here and you're you're
39:06
envisioning new futures. But it's, yeah, I'm just, you
39:09
know, blown away whenever I hear like when I have an opportunity
39:12
to meet a founder like you and being like, wow, that's
39:15
incredible. In this state of transition I've
39:20
asked myself a lot around. To your point.
39:22
I think 1-2 line on self be true.
39:25
I was talking to a friend the other day and I was trying to
39:28
have her do something like I do it and she's a hard introvert
39:33
and I'm an extrovert. One of my gifts and knowing
39:37
myself, I've called it now a consolation.
39:41
But to your point, I have Co conspirators and people who I go
39:45
and I consult with and I talked to.
39:47
And so when I started change the tune, I would go to Scott and
39:49
say, Scott, here's what I'm going to do.
39:53
That internal conviction. I've told Scott what I'm going
39:55
to do. So I need to follow through on
39:56
my words. So that propels me to get things
39:59
done. Or I might say, Scott, can you
40:01
help me with this piece? And then you and I are working
40:04
on these pieces together. So change the Tune is kind of
40:07
I've had many like. For example, when I got to
40:09
Harvard, or just me, I started changing tune.
40:12
Before I went to the doctoral program, I probably had like 4
40:15
people help me write my essay to get in.
40:16
Like full stop. Like it.
40:18
By the time I got done, I was like, this is my story.
40:21
Oh this sounds very polished and very nice.
40:23
Is my story, my genuine story. But like grant applications,
40:27
there's a Maya Angelou amazing videos, like 2 1/2 minutes and
40:33
she's that The thing is put a rainbow in someone's cloud.
40:36
And she says when she goes on stage, she brings her ancestors
40:39
and she says, come with me, I'm going.
40:41
And so for me, the way I as a founder have gone forward is to
40:46
bring people with me to not do it alone.
40:49
Although I feel like I'm the core in doing a lot of it, I've
40:52
never done any of it alone. And I'm very, very clear on
40:55
that. Like, I've had my community give
40:58
money when we first started our after school space.
41:01
There's a cafe in LA, it's called Aura Cafe.
41:04
They gave me space and free food for kids.
41:07
They literally have food and they would allow us to cook
41:09
upstairs like tacos, like a whole other smell inside their
41:12
restaurant with the kids. Like, but that's the gift of
41:16
bringing people along with you. And so even as I go forward, I
41:22
think is is bringing people along.
41:24
The other piece I'll say as a founder that I've had to realize
41:29
that's critical for us right now is like, I need to learn to
41:34
like, give more to people. Like I if, if this doesn't live
41:38
and I can't, like at one point my blood pressure started to go
41:42
up. I had gained a lot of weight.
41:45
Like things were rough. And I have learned though, to
41:51
this point, like I'm very heady, so I carry a lot in my head, but
41:55
then it manifests in my body. But if you're not taking care of
41:57
your body, then eventually your head starts to like erode, if
42:00
you will, and you get less clear and you're not doing the things.
42:04
And so learning to balance and release to others like, and it
42:09
doesn't have to, I think the other thing is a founder that
42:12
I'm getting into is it doesn't need to look though.
42:14
I'm the visionary, doesn't have to look like the vision.
42:17
Did it get done? That's really a bigger question
42:20
and figuring out I think the gift of another gift I have is
42:25
identifying people's gifts. Oh, you're good at this.
42:27
OK, well then you do this. You're good at this.
42:29
Then you do this and also holding people accountable.
42:33
You said you're going to do this.
42:34
Tell me why I got didn't get done or or help me understand
42:37
like this is what I and then also learning when to cut your
42:40
losses and like this isn't a fit.
42:43
You don't want to be a part of the movement.
42:45
OK, not every dead, everybody can't always go you, I want
42:49
everyone to go, but like time and space in place, like
42:52
somebody might not have the energy or the capacity.
42:57
Wow, thank you so much. That was like super insightful
43:01
and and super honest as well. I appreciate that.
43:03
And it's just so evident that, you know, part of, I think this,
43:10
you know, what it takes to be a founder.
43:13
And this is coming from, from, from your own lived experience.
43:16
But it sounds like high level of integrity is important courage
43:21
terms of believing your vision, but also wisdom and knowing that
43:26
it's not going to be necessarily that full vision as like your
43:29
whole imagination, you know, was kind of like taking you, but
43:32
that, you know, you need to like go along with with with others,
43:35
right? And build this, this sense of
43:38
camaraderie, right? There's a song called better
43:41
than I Imagined When you I had a friend, April in my program.
43:46
When you lean on your own understanding, you're limited
43:50
insight. But if I'm able to bring in
43:52
Scott's piece, if I really get honest with myself, it's better
43:57
than I imagined. But if I just stay with myself,
44:02
then I'm I'm it's limited and, and what I want to create is
44:05
like a mosaic, which is not just this narrow view.
44:08
So I just want to name that too. As a founder, you need to
44:11
understand that like true change does not come from the single
44:17
vision of 1. Wow, I love that.
44:20
Yeah, and, and, and also kind of gets to the, I think the
44:23
difficult part of like as a founder, yeah, you, you find
44:25
yourself in the spotlight and yeah, there's a lot of your
44:28
vision. But then what you're saying
44:29
about like, you know, when you bring other people on and then
44:32
you see that vision take, you know, shape and, you know, it
44:36
may become something even better.
44:38
Then I think it it falls on the founder to have that that
44:40
humility, right to say to call it and being like like that was
44:44
because of so and so or I'm so glad that we have you know, you
44:48
know, this person and and like really kind of like it sounds
44:51
like, you know, lifting up everyone and recognizing like,
44:54
yeah, you know, we're we're all on this this ship going, you
44:57
know, in this direction. And then where will we go next
45:01
kind of thing. And so I think that's that's
45:03
really beautiful and you know it.
45:05
And again, like the I just, yeah, I appreciate how like the
45:09
rain, like the the Maya Angelou, like, you know, reference and
45:12
like the rainbow. I think, you know, everyone
45:16
should, should consider themselves a leader in that
45:18
regards when they have that kind of power within them to make a
45:23
decision that is more hopeful, that is meant to inspire, that
45:26
is meant to, yeah, uplift in that way.
45:29
Because sometimes, right, people, people's visions are
45:33
just stormy clouds. And but then that one rainbow
45:36
will catch their attention And that's all you need, right?
45:39
Just kind of breakthrough those difficult storm clouds.
45:43
So you know, this, everything that you shared about and, and,
45:46
and like the work that you're doing right now and even this
45:48
transition period, I find very beautiful.
45:51
And like how you're really like giving yourself this time and
45:54
considering, you know, where you've been, where you're at and
45:56
where you're going to go. It, it's just, it's, it's really
46:00
powerful stuff and it's rooted in change and making, you know,
46:04
transforming the world into a better version and, and the one
46:07
where the future generations can thrive.
46:11
I'm just thinking back to like the beginning of the, the, the
46:14
conversation, you know, when, when you were sharing about your
46:16
mom saying life's not fair. Have you had any recent
46:19
conversations with, with your mom in regards to the work that
46:23
you're doing? And, and would you, do you think
46:26
you've that, do you think that maybe she's changed her tune a
46:29
little bit or, or has she given to say, but like as, or any,
46:34
like, you know, other pearls of, of wisdom that she's offered?
46:37
But I'm I'm sure she's undoubtedly proud of the work
46:40
that you're doing. But I'm just curious like,
46:42
because like, you know, it sounds like you two were kind of
46:44
coming at it from, you know, some that there's that tension
46:47
that you you mentioned, right. So I'm just kind of wondering
46:50
where she's at. I think so, yeah.
46:54
I talk to her all the time. I we don't talk about
46:58
specifically the life's not fair.
46:59
I think for better or worse, I think there's a level of
47:05
rigidity in everyone. And like when you're a founder
47:08
and you have this conviction, like you're like, this is right,
47:11
this is wrong. And I think what she's shown me
47:14
in life, like you watch people's experience and people don't
47:18
always do people well. So I've seen my mom like be
47:22
friends with someone or like something happened in the family
47:24
and it's not the kindest, warmest.
47:26
And yet she still loves and cares for people.
47:29
And I think the greatest lesson in the fairness is like, it's
47:35
not, it's not even about fairness.
47:36
It's actually about love and like caring for one another and
47:40
understanding the complexity, which I kind of have.
47:43
I have a New York dad and he said something similar to me
47:45
recently. And it's like it's, it's really
47:50
grounding and rooting yourself in love and life's not going to
47:55
be fair, but like you get to choose how you show up in
48:00
fairness, if you will. You get to choose how you
48:04
forgive or give grace to or be the person.
48:07
So that I think is what she's modeled as of late.
48:11
And I got to see her be a grandma and like she's a whole
48:16
another person. So it's it's fun because the
48:21
complexity of humans also we get to change.
48:27
We are constantly evolving and changing and we're not the same
48:30
people. So fairness changes to the
48:32
barometer of fairness changes. Beautiful.
48:37
I love, I love that, you know, these lessons learned from those
48:40
closest to us. You know, the message about like
48:43
being rooted in love, I think is so profound and and the fact
48:48
that, yeah, people can change, especially I think with our
48:51
parents, we we, we're closest to them.
48:54
And so we think we know them best, but that we put them in
48:57
these boxes and then we realize, well, maybe the rigidity that we
49:01
see in them can also reflect back certain aspects of
49:03
ourselves. So being having that openness to
49:06
like admit, wow, is this, you know, like there's something
49:10
more to this or like the leaning into the complexity piece of it
49:14
that like, you know, in this moment, it's it's different,
49:16
right? Or life, life events happen and,
49:19
and they responded differently. It's like, are we actually
49:22
taking note of that? Are we, you know, vigilant and
49:26
and really picking up on those nuances?
49:28
I think that's the challenge that we have.
49:31
And then, yeah, and I just really appreciate, you know,
49:33
you, you sharing that. And I'm congratulations on on,
49:37
you know, your mom becoming a grandmother and I'm sure she's,
49:39
you know, very happy in this new stage of, of her life.
49:43
And, you know, I just really appreciate you, Charlie, for
49:46
sharing so much of like, you know, your experiences and the
49:48
work that you're doing. It's just been truly like
49:52
inspiring and makes me have my own conviction about like the
49:55
work that I do and, and really trying to, you know, do the work
49:59
joyfully, but bring along the whole community, like you were
50:02
saying and rooting it in love. So I wanted to ask the final
50:06
question, and this is one that I ask all my guests.
50:08
Any kind of recommendation you'd like to offer up for our
50:12
listeners? Yes, I was thinking about this.
50:16
I think so. We are called Change the Tune is
50:19
the name of the company. And I am obsessed with music.
50:22
And so if you're not, if you're on Spotify, I don't know why my
50:25
names are on the other platinum platforms, but you can look me
50:28
up on Spotify under Charlie Kemp, the song of the rest of
50:32
the year, especially as I navigate Jamaica.
50:35
And please look out if there's a way for you all to support it.
50:38
It's Soldier of love, It's by Sade.
50:41
And I don't know what this, I don't know what I call the
50:45
playlist, but Soldier of Love by Sade.
50:48
Like I think we all need to kind of armor up with love and think
50:51
about how do we show up with love?
50:53
How do we give love? How do we be loved?
50:54
How do we embody love? My next project is going to be
50:58
coming out around this, but I would say Soldier of Love, Check
51:03
it out. Awesome.
51:05
Yeah, I'll, I'll definitely be checking it out.
51:07
And thank you so much for that music recommendation, Charlie.
51:11
And yeah, this is this kind of wrapping up our our
51:14
conversation. I, I wanted to give you the last
51:16
words. Any final send off or like final
51:19
reflection as we're yeah, kind of like winding down.
51:23
Yeah, I think I want to stay on the mode of soldier of love for
51:29
people. Like I think right now more than
51:31
ever, every day we turn on the news and people are like, we're
51:35
in uncharted times since the pandemic.
51:37
I think that's like, and it gets like the stakes any up.
51:41
And I, I just want to say if you have two minutes today, the
51:46
question I would like for you to ask yourself is how am I showing
51:50
up and leading with love in my life for yourself, to yourself
51:55
and also to others. Music.