Latest / Rusty's Garage / Charlie Schwerkolt - Part 1

Transcript

Charlie Schwerkolt - Part 1 · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:14
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust, and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:23
  I'm Rusty's Garage.
• 0:27
  For this episode, I'm on the Gold Coast in a cool garage.
• 0:31
  It's not mine, but I wish it was.
• 0:33
  I'm sitting with my guest, Charlie Schwerkolt, supercars team owner, successful business owner, and very proud family man from a long line of Schwerkoltz who emigrated here several generations ago now and have done well through sheer hard work.
• 0:49
  Charlie hasn't been afraid to roll the dice a bit.
• 0:53
  Actually, the more correct term would be to take a calculated punt, and it's paid off.
• 0:58
  More on that later.
• 0:59
  In this chat, you'll learn about his background and the incredible job he's done expanding their forklift business, which was started well before his move into motorsport.
• 1:09
  These days, you know him from Team 18, currently running Gen 3 Camaros for Mark Winterbottom and Scott Pye.
• 1:17
  But David Reynolds is going to join them next year, as we have recently learned.
• 1:21
  For a time, he was involved with Dick Johnson Racing over a decade ago when James Courtney won the title.
• 1:28
  Charlie doesn't go deep into it, but sadly his friendship with DJ is no longer.
• 1:34
  And so far, time hasn't been able to heal it.
• 1:38
  Keep in mind when we get to that subject that Dick or the Johnson family aren't a part of this convo and they may have a different view of things.
• 1:47
  form your own opinion and as I always try and do take a balanced approach motorsport is a tough business and it happens sometimes this after all is Charlie's story and it's more wide-reaching than just motorsport there will be takeaways here for those of you with small businesses and wait till we get to the cars there are some beauties here
• 2:11
  Oh, and he's been voting with a former US president.
• 2:15
  That's a great story.
• 2:17
  Ever since I've known Charlie, he has always, always greeted me with this beaming smile, and today is no different.
• 2:24
  He has this zest for life and a work ethic I truly admire.
• 2:29
  In the midst of his busy schedule and a phone that rings its head off, we have somehow found a window for an overdue podcast convo.
• 2:37
  I hope you enjoy being part of it.
• 2:42
  It is fantastic to catch up with you.
• 2:43
  I want to get to some of the cool cars we are sitting around a little bit later in the chat.
• 2:49
  Can we take people on a little bit of a journey of your story pre-racing?
• 2:56
  I want to talk the Schwerkol family, if I can, and I'll talk to you.
• 3:00
  You have German origins that date back, I think the family emigrated here in kind of almost the mid-1800s, didn't they?
• 3:08
  Yeah, correct.
• 3:09
  Yeah, thanks, Rusty.
• 3:10
  Great to be chatting today.
• 3:11
  Really, really exciting to do this little piece with us together.
• 3:17
  Yeah, the Schwergott name's a German name and we go way, way back into the...
• 3:22
  I think we came out to Australia in the 1850s and immigrants from Prussia was then near Berlin and came out to Australia to do some farming and live a better life.
• 3:34
  And I think my great
• 3:36
  great-grandfather August Schwerkamp, just got married and then hopped in a boat called the Emmylou, I think that was its name or something like that.
• 3:44
  Out of Hamburg, I think.
• 3:45
  Wasn't it the Hamburg?
• 3:46
  That's it, Hamburg.
• 3:47
  And then sailed out to Australia and it's quite incredible.
• 3:50
  10% of the people died of scurvy or one of those diseases then and anyway, they survived and they went to Melbourne.
• 4:01
  and in Northcote and started a little farm there and thinking Northcote's right in the centre of Melbourne now and they had a farm there of a couple of acres.
• 4:09
  The family are an industrious slot, aren't they mate?
• 4:12
  When you look back over history, you've all had this immense work ethic.
• 4:17
  So orchard produce, you've alluded to there a moment ago, I think road materials, charcoal was some of the early kind of
• 4:23
  Work?
• 4:24
  Yeah, that's right.
• 4:25
  So after Northcote, they wanted more land, and so they ventured way out into Mitcham-Nunna-Wadding area, which is still right in the centre of Melbourne today, and I think they ended up with about 150 acres in total, which was a big property then back in those days, and as you said, mined, did some quarrying and all that sort of stuff, and then eventually looking for something extra to do,
• 4:53
  got into empty bottle collecting and started a business called Shwerko Bottle Yards.
• 4:59
  Which is, I think, if I'm right, the early origins perhaps of the term bottle-o.
• 5:05
  It was about people leaving their bottles outside and being collected and things like that, wasn't it?
• 5:11
  Yeah, that's right.
• 5:12
  Back in the day, there's only really two ways of getting rid of your beer bottles and drinkers and you could either leave them in your backyard and you collect the amount like 20 dozen, 24 dozen, or you take them to a scout hall.
• 5:27
  So that's how it all started and collecting these bottles started a great little business and then they got into bottle washing, washing the bottles and then selling them back to the wineries and the breweries and this all started even before Carlton United Brewery was even born.
• 5:42
  It was, you know, there was Richmond Brewery, Carlton Brewery, Abbotsford and all these breweries and started all that and collecting bottles and, you know, dad had, well, my grandfather's had about 60-odd horses.
• 5:55
  going around the streets of Melbourne, Paran.
• 5:57
  That's where it was based in the end after Mitchum and Unawarting area.
• 6:01
  They moved to Paran and started that whole thing there and became really successful there.
• 6:06
  Councils kind of hustled in on the business, basically, didn't they?
• 6:10
  And it might have been your grandfather.
• 6:12
  I can't remember.
• 6:12
  Perhaps your great-grandfather, I want to say, had a kind of light bulb moment, or was it your dad that had the light bulb moment around you?
• 6:19
  It's actually Dad.
• 6:20
  So my grandfather was born at Schwercock Cottage.
• 6:23
  His name was Charles.
• 6:25
  And the father, he's also Charles.
• 6:29
  Dad worked hard since he was about 15 years old and collected the bottles, worked the bottle yards really, really hard.
• 6:35
  And it's a hard business.
• 6:38
  It's really hard.
• 6:39
  Bottle-o's, scrap metal, bottles.
• 6:41
  bit of theft, bit of dodgy stuff going on everywhere.
• 6:45
  And it's a hard game.
• 6:48
  And you're talking censors.
• 6:49
  You know, I remember when I was a kid starting, we'd pay eight cents a dozen.
• 6:53
  That's all you'd pay.
• 6:54
  And these people would collect 24 dozen bottles and you get $1.92, which is quite incredible.
• 7:00
  But anyway, Dad worked it hard.
• 7:03
  And I think in 1973, the councils changed the way they collected bottles.
• 7:07
  You could put your bottles out on the nature strip for the garbos to get them.
• 7:11
  So that sort of ruined the bottle yard business to a degree and entered recycling companies like Vizzy and all that sort of stuff.
• 7:19
  And then dad thought, bloody hell, what am I going to do?
• 7:21
  And being inventive in, you know, tried to work out what he's going to do.
• 7:27
  And he had three forklifts in the bottle yard and he thought, okay, well, I'll loan them out, rent them out, try and sell them.
• 7:35
  So he ended up renting them out in our street in Mount Waverley after we moved there and
• 7:41
  And he rented them out and I thought, this is not a bad little business.
• 7:43
  So he started a company called Waverly Forklifts back in 1973.
• 7:48
  And before you know it, I joined in 1976 and there was 12 forklifts.
• 7:53
  And it's quite incredible how it all started.
• 7:56
  50th anniversary year.
• 7:58
  That's amazing.
• 7:59
  And what it's become from those very humble beginnings is...
• 8:04
  Massive, true national representation in Australia.
• 8:07
  It's huge, isn't it?
• 8:09
  Oh, it's massive.
• 8:10
  It's a massive business now.
• 8:11
  Give people a snapshot just in a basic way if you can.
• 8:14
  Yeah, look, so Waverley's grown to be a truly independent, the largest independent forklift company in Australia.
• 8:22
  It's got a branch, as you said, in every state in Australia.
• 8:24
  It's running way over 5,500 forklifts in its rental fleet now.
• 8:29
  It's Toyota's biggest customer in Australia.
• 8:31
  It's a fantastic business.
• 8:33
  Yeah.
• 8:34
  It's like any business had its ups and downs and recessions and all that sort of stuff.
• 8:38
  But we've soldiered on.
• 8:40
  I've been there 45 years and I honestly still love going there every day.
• 8:44
  I've got a great team of people and, yeah, it's a truly fantastic business.
• 8:49
  And so, yeah, it's going well.
• 8:51
  We'll touch more on a couple of other aspects of the business and things that you've done over time through this conversation.
• 8:57
  I love the fact that you brought up that Charles is a reoccurring name in the family.
• 9:00
  I reckon that's important too.
• 9:02
  And it was perhaps your great-great-grandmother who was a very good historian.
• 9:06
  She has preserved a lot of the memories, the writings, the memories.
• 9:11
  business cards, receipts, photos, and so on, that date right back, hasn't she?
• 9:16
  The Waverly Way is this book that has been put together to encompass, to celebrate these 50 years, and it's got some amazing things that she's kept or started the process of keeping.
• 9:26
  Yeah, look, it's actually my auntie.
• 9:29
  Is it your auntie?
• 9:29
  Dad's sister.
• 9:31
  Auntie Rosie, I'll call her, and she's on the White Horse Historical Society and Schwerko Cottage, our old cottage that the family had from the 1850s is still going and it's open to the public.
• 9:43
  So she's sort of in charge of that area and the artefacts, the whole thing, the history, and it's one of the oldest buildings still standing in Melbourne and it's quite incredible history.
• 9:53
  And to have all that documentation and...
• 9:56
  History, it's really incredible and it's great to go up there.
• 10:00
  I don't go off and up there much, but it's great to see that cottage, you know, still standing, you know, nearly 150 odd years ago.
• 10:08
  You restored an old buggy, I think, too, or had one restored, didn't you?
• 10:12
  Yeah, well, it was parked in one part of the museum.
• 10:16
  We had to move it across.
• 10:17
  So being adaptive, go and get an old forklift and move it across, lift it right over some fences and put it in there.
• 10:24
  So yeah, that was incredible.
• 10:25
  And for anyone in Melbourne, it's worth going and have a look at Shwerghal Cottage.
• 10:30
  It's a very special place.
• 10:31
  There is a transport to the business too, WFL Transport, and it links it kind of all together, forklift transport, doesn't it?
• 10:40
  Correct.
• 10:41
  So Waverley's a one-stop shop.
• 10:44
  And my dad started by saying, you know, when you get a forklift that you want the driver to be the ambassador and deliver the forklift.
• 10:53
  So the first person, here's your new forklift, et cetera.
• 10:56
  So we've kept on that journey with our customer-owned trucks, no subcontractors, it's all our own gear.
• 11:03
  And so, yeah, we're moving hundreds of forklifts a day and there's hundreds going out every day.
• 11:08
  So we use our own drivers.
• 11:10
  I think there's about 40-odd trucks in the fleet now.
• 11:12
  In every state in Australia, we just deliver forklifts.
• 11:15
  That's all we do and it's great.
• 11:17
  You talked about moving into the business, I think you said, around the mid-'70s there.
• 11:22
  Am I correct in saying that it was about 1988, maybe 30, 35 years ago, that you kind of effectively took charge, if you like, that...
• 11:32
  How old were you then?
• 11:33
  How big was that step?
• 11:34
  How big were the learnings?
• 11:35
  Obviously, if you've been immersed in the family business, there's hands-on stuff you've learned along the way, but when you find yourself in charge, it's a very different deal, Charlie, isn't it?
• 11:45
  It is.
• 11:46
  So, yeah.
• 11:46
  So, I joined in 1976.
• 11:48
  I was 15.
• 11:49
  I went to ...
• 11:52
  I ended up going to Campbell or Grammar.
• 11:53
  I didn't really want to go.
• 11:55
  I wanted to go to Jordanville Tech, hands-on type of thing, but mum said you've got to get an education in maths and English especially, which I thankfully, you know, I did learn that part.
• 12:06
  But I didn't really want to be there.
• 12:08
  I really wanted out.
• 12:09
  So I just turned 15 and the school said...
• 12:12
  No, you've got to go.
• 12:13
  This is not for you.
• 12:15
  Not for me at all.
• 12:17
  So I moved in and I was on the bottles for a year and it was really interesting going around picking up bottles with the bottle merchants.
• 12:28
  You know, Dad's bottom business at the time and making all that work.
• 12:31
  And then I did an apprenticeship as a forklift mechanic and learning the ropes and working with Dad.
• 12:38
  And that was good.
• 12:39
  I learned the ropes.
• 12:41
  But I could see when I got my truck licence, delivering these old second-hand forklifts Dad had, that there's got to be better.
• 12:47
  The customers are complaining about the oil leaks.
• 12:49
  The technology, even though there wasn't much back then, but the forklift masts were the old centre ram type and...
• 12:57
  heavy steering and lots of oil leaks and I thought there's got to be a better way.
• 13:02
  And I thought, why don't we get some new forklifts, brand new ones, invest.
• 13:05
  And dad said no.
• 13:07
  And because at the time dad didn't borrow money, that was the really old school way of doing it.
• 13:12
  And you don't borrow money, you only pay for what you can afford.
• 13:16
  So we sort of came up with a plan that I took over the business then in 1988 and
• 13:24
  And the first thing I did was go and buy 20 brand new forklifts.
• 13:28
  And I thought, back in the time, I thought, I felt like it was Alan Bond.
• 13:31
  This is massive.
• 13:32
  This is just huge.
• 13:34
  Big step.
• 13:35
  But unfortunately, we had this recession that came on that we had to have.
• 13:39
  And they all came back.
• 13:40
  So...
• 13:42
  I had to get them out and interest rates then, you know, you talk about interest rates today, you know, 5% and 6% and 7%.
• 13:48
  What are we talking about?
• 13:49
  17% or something, were we?
• 13:51
  18.5% I got to and so, yeah, it was massive.
• 13:53
  So I had to get them out and I remember we did get them out in the fruit season and they –
• 14:01
  That was the beginning, getting them out.
• 14:03
  We were about service and making it work for customers.
• 14:08
  So we got them out and then the journey began of slowly building and building and building and where it is today.
• 14:15
  We get lots of people that run their own businesses that listen to the pod.
• 14:20
  probably can't give away all the secrets of success, but is there an overarching message that you would say?
• 14:25
  What do you reckon is one of the key ingredients to why you are 50 years later where we are?
• 14:32
  What's been one of the underpinning things, do you think, for you?
• 14:35
  Look, there's quite a few things.
• 14:36
  One, the passion.
• 14:38
  I seriously, after 46 years, I've been there my whole life, but as a permanent employee there, 46 years, and I have the passion and the drive to make it work, and I...
• 14:49
  It's my baby and I've built it up and I love it.
• 14:51
  I love the passion that I've got for that business.
• 14:55
  And obviously the big thing is the people.
• 14:57
  I've got some incredible people.
• 14:59
  Some have been there 30 years or plus and there's some really special people.
• 15:05
  And we work as a team to make it the best forklift company in Australia.
• 15:10
  And, of course, you build a good culture.
• 15:12
  The culture is incredible we've got and...
• 15:16
  Staff retention's good.
• 15:17
  We're in this environment, a lot of people moving around and we've got good staff retention and it's great.
• 15:23
  It's a great place.
• 15:25
  And so yeah, it's a very special thing.
• 15:27
  I love that you brought up truck driving because it's not uncommon for us to see pics of you doing that.
• 15:32
  When you go through the book, there's a really cool shot of an old Bedford with I reckon a Holden 308 V8 in it.
• 15:39
  Did you drive that?
• 15:40
  Yeah, I did.
• 15:40
  Did you?
• 15:41
  Many, many years.
• 15:42
  I used to, in the very early days, picking up bottles from Yarra Glen and there was driving up from Mount Waverley to Yarra Glen, had a few hills and all that and it had an old petrol 6 and a blue smoke and I thought, we've got to go faster than this, so let's put a V8 in it and that's what you did.
• 15:57
  But...
• 15:57
  It created problems putting a V8 because vacuum brakes back in the day and you'd have to really stamp on the brake pedal to stop because they had so much go.
• 16:05
  But look... You still drive them now, don't you?
• 16:08
  I've seen relatively recent picks, haven't I?
• 16:10
  Yes, yeah, and I still... Look, that's your roots where you grew up and you never forget that ever.
• 16:17
  I've got respect as a driver in the whole business.
• 16:19
  I'll match any of the truck drivers there and have a bit of fun with them on the radio, et cetera.
• 16:23
  But that's how you grew up.
• 16:26
  And yeah, I love hopping in a truck now and then.
• 16:28
  It's good fun.
• 16:30
  And you see a lot.
• 16:31
  You learn a lot.
• 16:32
  And you learn about your business, where the forklifts are going, et cetera.
• 16:36
  But it's a long way from the old petrol Bedford, that's for sure.
• 16:39
  And we've got some beautiful Kenworths and he knows now.
• 16:41
  And yeah, it's fabulous.
• 16:48
  you have a presence at lots of events and I immediately think of things like the Australian Formula One Grand Prix we've seen Supercross at Marvel Stadium for example Spring Carnival and you've also done some stuff around some big name music acts haven't you?
• 17:04
  Yeah, look, part of the business, a lot of short-term events.
• 17:09
  And as you said, the Grand Prix, that's our biggest.
• 17:13
  When it came to Melbourne, we missed the first year.
• 17:16
  They had lots of troubles with the forklifts, but we supply all the gear for the Grand Prix and it's a special event.
• 17:22
  It creates work from the end of January right through to May type of thing.
• 17:26
  Setting up and dismantling.
• 17:27
  Correct, all the concrete blocks and the fencing.
• 17:30
  And even though the track's just under six kilometres, there's fencing blocks on both sides of the track.
• 17:37
  So there's about 12 kilometres of blocks and debris fencing and all that sort of stuff.
• 17:41
  And then all the pit lane stuff with our friends at Gibson Freight and do all that.
• 17:46
  And so there's about 180 bits of gear.
• 17:49
  just at the Grand Prix doing that.
• 17:50
  And then, as you said, the concerts, you know, we've got Taylor Swift coming up soon.
• 17:54
  That'll be 35, 40 machines just going for that concert in every state in Australia, spring racing.
• 18:00
  That's starting now and I just found out today we're delivering our first forklifts to the Tennis Open, which doesn't start till January, and they're starting to build all the precinct there, so machines are going there.
• 18:12
  Every supercar event, there's gear goes everywhere.
• 18:15
  And, yeah, it's great that you can be in any state in Australia, oh, there's some of my forklifts there, and, you know, they're everywhere.
• 18:22
  The daughter of every race driver in the country that loves Taylor Swift is about to call you.
• 18:26
  Good luck with that.
• 18:27
  Well, I've been trying to get tickets for my daughter, and even though we do the forklifts, we still can't.
• 18:32
  She's pretty close with the tickets.
• 18:34
  She won't give any away.
• 18:35
  So I think –
• 18:36
  Yeah, I think we'll be missing out.
• 18:38
  Before we go to racing, because people will be on the edge of their seat wanting to know more about that, can we ask about...
• 18:44
  moments where you've dealt with tough stuff.
• 18:46
  You've talked about the recession we had to have and big interest rates.
• 18:50
  We've had COVID recently and so on.
• 18:52
  What's the key in your mind?
• 18:53
  Because you haven't been afraid to have a go, Charlie.
• 18:56
  Your dad was a bit more perhaps on the cautious side in a business sense and that still serves you well, but you've not been afraid to have a go.
• 19:05
  What's been the secret of navigating some of the tougher moments economically or business-wise?
• 19:09
  Oh, look, you've got to make a decision sometimes.
• 19:13
  You've got to stick to that decision and just go with it.
• 19:16
  We've obviously had plenty of challenging times and probably the biggest challenge has been COVID.
• 19:22
  That was very challenging in the beginning.
• 19:24
  And I'll never forget we're at the Grand Prix.
• 19:26
  And of course, I've got all this gear going around and we're racing ironically at the same time.
• 19:30
  And then I sort of had a bit of a hunch what was going on because of our interaction there.
• 19:35
  And
• 19:36
  We were told that morning, hey, listen, your forklifts are going to start packing up today.
• 19:41
  And I thought, far out.
• 19:43
  But in that next couple of weeks, we had 500 forklifts come back in about a three to four week period.
• 19:49
  And I never forget going back to the boardroom with our staff.
• 19:52
  We've got de-hires everywhere.
• 19:53
  And it was the unknown.
• 19:55
  People didn't know what was going on at all.
• 19:57
  And it was a bit scary then.
• 19:58
  That was probably the scariest thing.
• 20:00
  You could navigate through those early days.
• 20:02
  There was not as much to lose, and I had a lot to lose when you had 500 forklifts come back and potentially more.
• 20:08
  But obviously those tough times, opportunity also, for those who are brave, I'm not scared to take a risk.
• 20:16
  And we could see it starting to turn in, that was May 20, I think, no, March 2020 when it all started, but we could see it starting to turn, slow right down in about August.
• 20:27
  And I'm thinking...
• 20:28
  I think there's going to be a shortage of machines.
• 20:31
  Just they're going everywhere in the world and why don't we buy a massive amount of machines?
• 20:36
  So I came up with a new plan.
• 20:38
  Yes, it was a big risk and we bought a lot of machines off Toyota and then they started going out and then got more machines and as you know in some of the...
• 20:47
  The world is stock is king.
• 20:49
  Yes.
• 20:49
  And we had the stock.
• 20:50
  And so we grew the business dramatically in 21 and 22 of just servicing all our customers that have grown with us.
• 20:58
  And it's been good, but just never give up.
• 21:12
  From one legendary team boss to another.
• 21:14
  Strap in and maybe get a beer.
• 21:16
  Drink responsibly please otherwise Rusty will get me in trouble.
• 21:20
  Now, imagine managing two of the most competitive drivers on the planet.
• 21:24
  Craig Lowndes and Mark Scaife.
• 21:26
  Over to Jeff Grech to tell us all about it.
• 21:29
  Those two blokes were a handful, but boy, did they lift the team.
• 21:35
  I mean, there wouldn't have been a day gone by when those two were in the workshop that there was not a positive come out of any negative.
• 21:45
  But absolutely, as a team manager, that's when the hair started receding and one beer a night turned into a couple.
• 21:56
  catch the legendary former Holden Racing team boss, Jeff Gregg, in the garage library.
• 22:02
  People would be interested to know about, I mean, we're surrounded by some very cool cars.
• 22:06
  You're a car person.
• 22:07
  There are, in your office, you have some special Marcus Ambrose helmets.
• 22:11
  There's all kinds of memorabilia that surrounds us here.
• 22:14
  So the place oozes it.
• 22:16
  Did you race karts when you were younger and how did you go?
• 22:20
  I did race karts and I loved it.
• 22:22
  And I still, when we do a corporate function with some of our sponsors and I'll still go and have a go and getting a little bit rusty at the moment.
• 22:32
  But, you know, I'll always, the two drivers will be one and two and then I'd probably always come third.
• 22:37
  But I love my karting and I started Oakley Kart Club.
• 22:42
  With a mate of mine, Mark.
• 22:43
  Famous Oscar Piasprey.
• 22:44
  I think that's home for him.
• 22:45
  Yeah, no, it was probably a little bit earlier than that.
• 22:47
  No, I know that, but that's where I'm telling people that's where he's from.
• 22:50
  And then I remember going, I came fifth in an Australian title at Brooklyn and it was the last year of Brooklyn, so I don't know when that was.
• 22:57
  It was...
• 22:58
  80s or something.
• 23:00
  That was the last before Todd Road and that was the Melbourne's track then.
• 23:03
  Tell me about the cart.
• 23:04
  What class?
• 23:04
  What class?
• 23:05
  I was Clubman Light.
• 23:06
  So yes, just the MR100 engine, you'll remember now.
• 23:10
  And it's probably some bits and pieces floating around, but loved it.
• 23:14
  And every Sunday, I'd be somewhere around Victoria doing that and throw the cart in the back of the truck and it was good fun.
• 23:20
  And I've always had that interest in
• 23:23
  car racing.
• 23:23
  I wanted to go speedway.
• 23:24
  I wanted to do other things, but look, work, Forklift's really got in the way and had a love for building a beautiful business, which I did.
• 23:32
  But that interest in cars and car racing has been there.
• 23:35
  And as a kid, dad, take me to Bathurst all the time.
• 23:40
  And I remember in the sixties and seventies going up there and Bill Brown, and there's a photo of me with Bill Brown rolling that HO Falcon right across the top.
• 23:47
  Right across the
• 23:48
  atop and I'm standing next to it and it's on this little fence there and it's incredible.
• 23:52
  And going to Sandown as a kid because we lived only about four or five k's from Sandown and the old pits there and C. Alan Moffat, of course, and Bond and all my heroes there.
• 24:03
  And it was special times.
• 24:05
  And so, yes, I've been there.
• 24:07
  watched it all the time and loved it.
• 24:08
  I really have.
• 24:09
  So what you've now ended up doing as a team owner and so on was the early genesis for, let's call it a Waverley forklift involvement or more of a presence, if you like, even if you weren't racing in a karting sense like you were.
• 24:26
  There is a pick in the book.
• 24:27
  I think it's Mark Walker and he's got an HQ Holden that's on a flatbed of...
• 24:31
  of yours.
• 24:32
  I mean, is that some of the early stuff where you were supporting people perhaps and so on?
• 24:35
  For sure.
• 24:36
  Yeah, look, we were definitely – I saw a front guard the other day of Owen Kelly and supporting Owen Kelly for something and a few others and all that sort of stuff.
• 24:46
  Excellent.
• 24:47
  And I enjoy, you know, people getting success out of it.
• 24:50
  And so, yeah, wherever I can help, I did.
• 24:53
  And so, yeah, there's always been an involvement.
• 24:57
  a small one all the way through to the DJI days.
• 25:01
  Wow.
• 25:02
  So is that the first kind of big step to go and play, or did you do something else in a racing involvement sense?
• 25:10
  And how did the kind of conversation come about?
• 25:12
  Obviously you two at that stage knew each other pretty well.
• 25:14
  How did you get involved, and when did it kick off?
• 25:17
  2008?
• 25:18
  No, well, look, it actually started in 2001, I think it was.
• 25:23
  I was going to the touring car races where you were compensating there probably way back then, I'm not sure.
• 25:28
  Before grey hair, Charlie.
• 25:32
  And with a bunch of mates, we'd go to the races.
• 25:34
  We'd go to Bathurst and hop on a light plane somewhere and tour around Australia.
• 25:39
  And it was special doing those with fun things and all that sort of stuff.
• 25:44
  But obviously I had a serious thing of looking around and, you know,
• 25:46
  Anyway, this one particular time I went up with a friend, Gary, and we had a couple of seats on the way back from Winton.
• 25:53
  So...
• 25:55
  Gary said, look, I know Dick Johnson and do you mind if, you know, he'll come back on the plane.
• 26:00
  So I think it was Dick and John Bauer that came back.
• 26:03
  I'm not sure.
• 26:04
  But they came back on the plane.
• 26:06
  And Dick being Dick, I sat next to him and he said, so what do you do?
• 26:11
  I've never met Dick in my life.
• 26:12
  And I said, look, I rent forklifts out and sell and rent forklifts out.
• 26:16
  And straightaway he said, I need a new forklift.
• 26:19
  Why don't we hook up?
• 26:20
  And I reckon he's done his homework.
• 26:22
  Why don't we hook up and see if we can do some sort of a deal?
• 26:26
  So I think it was a couple of weeks later.
• 26:28
  This is an 01.
• 26:29
  I went up to his workshop and he gave me a ride with him and a door for the car, which I've still got somewhere, and a few other bits and pieces.
• 26:40
  I think I put my name on Waverley Forklifts on the car back then.
• 26:43
  Excellent.
• 26:44
  And we struck a friendship.
• 26:47
  And so that was 01.
• 26:48
  And then sort of it started really 02, 03 and sort of being involved with the team and then, you know,
• 26:55
  Just on a friendly, not rushing in or out, absolutely not doing much at all.
• 27:00
  And then ended up sort of sponsoring the team a little bit in 04, 05, just on a very small way and helping where I could, helping a mate.
• 27:09
  And it would ultimately get to a point where you were kind of heavily involved and in a hands-on way with the team, weren't you?
• 27:18
  Yeah.
• 27:20
  Where I could help, I guess...
• 27:24
  It was a learning thing if I, you know, to be honest, you know, the car racing thing, the whole thing.
• 27:29
  Was it your commercial strength?
• 27:30
  What was it that you were bringing to the table?
• 27:32
  Yeah, just the commercial side.
• 27:33
  Yeah, the commercial side and just another sounding board.
• 27:37
  He had David Siegel looking after the drivers and doing PR and all that sort of stuff there and.
• 27:42
  and at the time Steve Chalker was running it, and then I was just another sounding board as a mate, really, and we used to go boating together and doing quite a few things like that, and so it was good.
• 27:55
  I enjoyed those early days for sure.
• 27:57
  It was good.
• 27:57
  The zenith, the highlight, of course, is the title, 2010, James Courtney.
• 28:02
  You, to this day, still have a good connection with Adrian Burgess.
• 28:05
  I think Adrian, when he came out from...
• 28:08
  the UK with family you were big on sort of helping them settle in here and things like that I mean that year was fairy tale in many ways and it had its challenges didn't it?
• 28:21
  Yeah, look, it was tumultuous in the end, which is a real shame.
• 28:23
  But going back to Adrian, you know, I never forget.
• 28:26
  It was at Wanneroo.
• 28:28
  It was at Wanneroo.
• 28:29
  I think it was 06.
• 28:32
  Yeah, it was Wanneroo 06.
• 28:35
  And Dick came to me.
• 28:36
  I'm looking for a new team manager.
• 28:38
  And there was two that he was looking at, I think.
• 28:40
  One was Jeff Gregg and one was Adrian Burgess that he flew out from England.
• 28:44
  And Adrian got the gig, which is good, and built up a relationship with Adrian and Adrian.
• 28:49
  And as you said, won the championship in the end.
• 28:51
  But 07 came along and then Dick wanted to – Dick got into strife, as you know, in a big way financially.
• 29:00
  And I think, you know, at the end of 07, he basically sold the team to John Marshall from No Limit Group.
• 29:10
  And Marcus was his son, of course.
• 29:13
  And then – but unfortunately –
• 29:16
  It all fell over in January.
• 29:17
  I'm not sure the reason why.
• 29:18
  And then Dick sort of, can you help me out?
• 29:22
  And so I ended up buying 50% of the team in the beginning of 08 and set about building the team back up again from where it was.
• 29:33
  It was in a bit of a financial mess.
• 29:35
  The tough part was because you had Will Davison, James Courtney came in and so on.
• 29:41
  Naturally, CVJs around.
• 29:42
  So they're...
• 29:45
  The pros were trying to win the title and move forward a certain way.
• 29:49
  And it was tough in a friendship sense for you guys, mate, in the end, wasn't it?
• 29:53
  I mean, did you really even get to celebrate that 2010 title?
• 29:57
  No, not really, no.
• 29:59
  Unfortunately, it was tough and we're pulling at each other.
• 30:05
  One's going the family way and the other's the business model and one's trying to win and it was all over the joint.
• 30:12
  And then, you know, I'm buying Dick out, he's buying me out, the whole thing, and then Nathan Tinkler's involved.
• 30:19
  He's going to rescue the...
• 30:21
  the partnership type of thing and that never happened.
• 30:24
  And so it was a bit messy.
• 30:25
  So unfortunately we split the team up after the championship winning period then.
• 30:32
  And, yeah, it was a very, very tough time, unfortunately.
• 30:35
  No, I didn't celebrate it all really.
• 30:39
  I think I've had a few quiet drinks with James Courtney now and then over the junior Adrian and it was a bit of a sad way to end it.
• 30:46
  But I know I was at the helm of the wheel doing all that and, yeah, I can still help my head high of what we achieved back then and to win that championship is still quite incredible.
• 30:58
  You kept the car.
• 30:59
  That's in reception, isn't it?
• 31:00
  Yes, I got the car, which is great.
• 31:02
  It's a beautiful car.
• 31:03
  It's fully restored and...
• 31:05
  Yeah, I love it.
• 31:05
  Have you had a steer?
• 31:08
  No, but it was funny.
• 31:10
  Current team manager, Bruin, said, why don't you take this car to Goodwood?
• 31:14
  It would be just amazing to take there and do something like that.
• 31:17
  So we talked about the idea of this year, but it was just too rushed.
• 31:21
  But I'd certainly love to take it over there.
• 31:24
  But, yes, I've got to, you know, at the end of this year, I promise myself I've got to get that car out and do some laps and learn how good she is.
• 31:32
  Good on you.
• 31:33
  This might be a question you're not comfortable to answer, and I'll fully respect that if you don't want to.
• 31:37
  Has time healed wounds?
• 31:39
  Are you and Dick able to sort of chat now, or is it just a chapter that's closed and you've gone your way and he's gone his?
• 31:46
  Yeah, look, I don't mind answering it.
• 31:48
  No, it's unfortunately it hasn't really healed anything there.
• 31:54
  He was, I guess, bitter about the whole thing, and...
• 31:58
  just the way it went.
• 31:58
  So I'll say hi, he'll say hi and that's it.
• 32:01
  We move on.
• 32:02
  But the rest of everyone else, yeah, no drummers at all.
• 32:05
  You kept the wreck.
• 32:06
  You decide to embark on your own journey.
• 32:09
  When did you decide that?
• 32:11
  How big was that decision?
• 32:13
  Because you're going from having an involvement, a stakeholding, a partnership, if you will, to charting your own course in supercars.
• 32:23
  Was that something you thought long and hard about?
• 32:25
  And when did you hit the go button?
• 32:27
  Yeah, it was a tough one.
• 32:32
  I'm trying to go back now.
• 32:34
  And I – so in the end, yes, Nathan Tinkle was going to buy us out and then far out it was going to be – it fell over.
• 32:43
  So we basically split the team in half and Dick took his wreck and I took mine, 18, and he had 17 numbers.
• 32:51
  And we split everything, split the debt, split everything and –
• 32:57
  Um, and we go down that path and, and Dick continued on by getting an investor, which was Steve Braybeck, the Crimsafe, Crimsafe owner, and he'll get along and move on.
• 33:07
  And then I decided what I'm going to do with this wreck and the whole thing.
• 33:11
  So I leased it back to Dick for, for the period of, that was part of our deal for 2011 and 2012.
• 33:18
  And I leased it back for those two years.
• 33:22
  And so I sort of out of the sport and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
• 33:27
  just watching from the sidelines, never went to a race or anything like that.
• 33:30
  And a bit of a tough time, obviously, you know, on the front page of the paper.
• 33:34
  It was, yeah, it was a bit of a tough time.
• 33:39
  How dark.
• 33:40
  Yeah, pretty dark.
• 33:41
  But I soldiered on.
• 33:43
  I ended up working hard in the business, obviously.
• 33:48
  The Forklift side is still going strong and building.
• 33:50
  And then those mental challenges, you think, wow, could I have done it different and everything, the way it all worked.
• 33:58
  I went and did the Kokoda Trail.
• 34:00
  I went and
• 34:01
  did that with one of the guys, Phil Young, who was a physio on the team.
• 34:06
  And that was challenging.
• 34:06
  That was really good.
• 34:07
  That was a, you know, you climb that mountain there and wow, and you can do anything then.
• 34:13
  Don't undersell that.
• 34:15
  I'm very proud.
• 34:17
  20 years ago, I did a trek to Everest Base Camp with my wife, but I've spoken to others who have done Kokoda.
• 34:23
  I've not done it.
• 34:25
  And, you know, I think Jess Yates has done it.
• 34:28
  I want to say maybe Dylan Alcott too.
• 34:29
  I can't remember.
• 34:30
  But, I mean, grueling, mate.
• 34:32
  I mean, you learn a lot about yourself, I would imagine.
• 34:35
  Yeah, you did for sure.
• 34:36
  I'll never forget.
• 34:37
  I'm cutting 20 kilos, training in the Narang State Forest every – twice a week, three times a week with 20 kilos on my backpack.
• 34:45
  And I'm thinking –
• 34:46
  What am I doing?
• 34:47
  This is just grueling.
• 34:48
  But that training, all that training going up and down with a couple of poles and everything, and it was grueling.
• 34:53
  It was really, really tough.
• 34:54
  And, of course, we went there.
• 34:56
  It rained nonstop for the six days we did it, nonstop.
• 35:00
  And you're in mud up to your ankles through rivers and everything like that.
• 35:04
  But it was nothing compared to what they did in the war, and it was incredible.
• 35:09
  But I got back from there and thinking, you know what?
• 35:12
  this is a great thing to do and it certainly, it's been in my memory of being forever.
• 35:18
  Excellent.
• 35:19
  So you decide to create at some point Team 18.
• 35:25
  At what point did you go, okay, I'm going to hit the go button on this and did it involve a conversation with family?
• 35:35
  How did you sort of bring this all together?
• 35:38
  Yeah, look, so 2011 and 2012 have leased the wreck out and I had a chance.
• 35:43
  Do I sell?
• 35:44
  Do I go and do a customer thing?
• 35:46
  It's too hard to start your own team.
• 35:50
  So I leased the wreck to FPR, the current Tickford people, and I thought I –
• 36:01
  James Courtney was going to drive for me at that stage.
• 36:03
  He stayed – where did he go?
• 36:06
  I can't even remember the puzzle.
• 36:08
  But, yeah, he was going to come along board, but he didn't.
• 36:14
  And I ended up getting Jeldon sponsorship for 2013, 2014, and a very good friend of Nigel –
• 36:23
  was running that and so I ended up thinking, well, the model stacks up.
• 36:27
  I get to go car racing.
• 36:29
  They do all the maintenance, the whole thing.
• 36:31
  I'll buy the car and I thought this is a good way to go racing and still involve, bring the sponsors on, look after the sponsors and had one, Ben Nightingale, he was my commercial guy doing that with me.
• 36:42
  He's now with Ford.
• 36:42
  He's with Ford now, yes.
• 36:45
  And so we started that way and off we went.
• 36:47
  And so Alex Davison took the helm at the wheel there and –
• 36:53
  I think we finished about 11th in that season.
• 36:54
  We got a podium at Phillip Island.
• 36:57
  And for the first year, it wasn't a bad year.
• 37:01
  There are, when you're in that building phase, the Team 18 that we now know today, and you have that,
• 37:08
  um, that supplier connection or that customer connection, if you like, um, it doesn't always mean that, that the ingredients are perfectly there to do what a competitive Charlie's work I wants to, wants to do.
• 37:22
  So that means there are some testing times in that process until you find a structure that works for you.
• 37:28
  And a bit of that happened.
• 37:30
  Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 37:31
  So, yeah.
• 37:32
  Um,
• 37:34
  commercially it's got to be sound for me and the right partners and working with people.
• 37:38
  And I've had a lot of, you know, 2013 and 2014, some of the sponsors way back then are still with us today and building and growing.
• 37:47
  And that's a testament to them to be on the journey with me and getting a lot out of it.
• 37:52
  Because I like to deliver.
• 37:53
  I can't go racing without all these partners.
• 37:55
  And there's some...
• 37:56
  Very special partners like Seiko Watches have been on since 2014 and Manitou Forklift was 2013.
• 38:03
  But, yeah, so I took that journey and kept going that way.
• 38:07
  Jack Perkins came on in 2014.
• 38:11
  I think – I don't think it was –
• 38:15
  It wasn't the best year.
• 38:16
  I think it was very hard, the customer model back then.
• 38:18
  I felt I was the fourth one in the chain there on the queue.
• 38:23
  And it was a bit of a messy year then.
• 38:25
  And I thought, well, 2015, I'm going to change camps from the Ford camp.
• 38:31
  Adrian's running...
• 38:34
  Warpenshaw was a woodworking team.
• 38:35
  Holt Racing Team then, before it was then, while it was called.
• 38:38
  And I thought, this is going to be good.
• 38:40
  Go in there.
• 38:41
  I brought on Leah Holtzworth.
• 38:43
  That's right.
• 38:44
  And away we go.
• 38:46
  Again, this customer model.
• 38:51
  you felt like, are the bits the same bits?
• 38:55
  Why do we have to let James Courtney go past?
• 38:57
  Why is this and all that sort of stuff?
• 38:59
  And I just felt, you know what, this is not exactly...
• 39:02
  If I'm in this, I've got to do it properly.
• 39:05
  And so I thought at the end of 2015, I think it was in New Zealand, I think it was one of the last rounds, I said to Lee...
• 39:13
  I think we're going to go and do this on our own.
• 39:15
  We're going to go and start a team on our own.
• 39:17
  And boy, oh boy, did the world open.
• 39:21
  Starting something from scratch is really, really hard.
• 39:24
  You've got to get a team manager.
• 39:25
  You've got to get a car.
• 39:26
  You've got to get staff, the whole thing.
• 39:28
  And I'm not sure if I was the last person to start a team from scratch.
• 39:33
  In the current crop.
• 39:34
  In the current, yeah.
• 39:36
  But, you know, the Groves have bought Kelly's and Erebus bought Stones and Premier's bought Techno.
• 39:42
  So I would think I'd be the last person to start a team from scratch and that was a hard gig.
• 39:48
  So we rented a factory in Dandenong.
• 39:50
  Jeff had a lot of – Jeff Grek was our team manager, got him on board.
• 39:53
  Roland got me a second-hand car.
• 39:55
  It was the – I think it was the car that –
• 40:00
  the wild car that did Bathurst at the time, chassis number one or chassis number 30.
• 40:04
  An Xbox car.
• 40:06
  An Xbox car, yeah.
• 40:07
  Bought that car off him because there was no cars available right at the end of 2015.
• 40:12
  So we're away in 2016 and then I got a naming rights sponsor, Preston High, and they're still good friends today.
• 40:19
  All the naming rights are still friends today from all those years back.
• 40:25
  And then we're away.
• 40:26
  A couple of things.
• 40:26
  I want to, before we sort of immerse ourselves into the current state of play, firstly, it's immediately obvious, because I've seen you do it, and Adrian reminded me, that the commercial...
• 40:41
  management, if you will, the way you look after sponsors, is, I would think, a natural extension of what you do at Waverly.
• 40:48
  It's something you're very good at.
• 40:49
  You've been able to preserve them in the sort of the lengths that you talk about.
• 40:54
  In a business where it can be brutal, where people try and poach each other's sponsors, I'm not being rough when I say that.
• 41:03
  That's a long, almost tradition.
• 41:05
  It's happened for a long, long time.
• 41:07
  How have you gone about...
• 41:08
  keeping their arm around them and fencing them in and what's been key to that do you reckon looking after them really well i i'm i'm proud to say that as i said the the journey that they've been with this has been really solid um i think i've only lost one major sponsor to another team and it was probably money driven um they were looked after very well and you over you know always give more than you promise you over deliver and um communicate well and and uh
• 41:37
  you just, you've, they're investing a lot of money and they want a return and I make sure that they get a return.
• 41:44
  And if they don't, well, let's sort out the problem, what we need and say, yes, we have our sponsor summits and we have all sorts of stuff.
• 41:52
  And once you're with Team 18, it's, you should, providing you're sponsoring a team, yeah, you'll stay there.
• 41:59
  When you're in that customer arrangement that you just talked about before you got to what we really now know as Team 18,
• 42:07
  Did you have a moment perhaps where you talked with colleagues, maybe family, and went, should I really keep doing this?
• 42:15
  Did you contemplate not going any further?
• 42:18
  No, I don't think so.
• 42:19
  No, I can't remember those days.
• 42:21
  It was very difficult.
• 42:24
  when I couldn't deliver what I wanted to deliver, being in a customer team, you only get this, you only get that, you're not allowed to do this and your merchandise is over there, not with them and all this sort of stuff.
• 42:36
  And I just felt I wanted to have a go at doing my own thing and prove to myself that there's a better way of doing it.
• 42:44
  And I thought, well, I'm not a person that gives up and I'm thinking, you know what, I'll go and...
• 42:50
  I'll go and do it the right way commercially how I think it should be done and deliver to those people.
• 42:57
  And so, yeah, colleagues especially and, yeah, we made it work.
• 43:02
  You are the energiser bunny, mate.
• 43:04
  You are this bundle of always outgoing passion and kind of positivity
• 43:12
  Have you been that way your whole life or is that something that has just been learned?
• 43:17
  And does motor racing have its moments where that takes a bit away from you?
• 43:22
  Because I feel like that's your natural quality.
• 43:26
  Yeah, no, I've got this…
• 43:27
  stupid amount of energy all the time.
• 43:29
  Absolutely stupid.
• 43:31
  I'll go to work and everyone's, oh, here he comes.
• 43:35
  And it's a bit of fun and all that.
• 43:37
  I love to have fun at work and Waverly and all that sort of stuff.
• 43:40
  And the same in the race team.
• 43:42
  I'm buzzing around everywhere and what's going on.
• 43:45
  I don't micromanage people.
• 43:46
  Build your people, build your staff the whole time.
• 43:49
  And so we had a lot of fun.
• 43:50
  But, yeah, motor racing can kill that abyss and you can get knocked down, you get turfed off and you can have a cruel engine failure, a rare engine failure on lap one at Bathurst in 2016.
• 44:02
  And I'm thinking this is good, we're looking good on lap one.
• 44:06
  Never forget halfway up the straight.
• 44:09
  No, I think it was on the warm-up lap.
• 44:11
  The engine doesn't feel right.
• 44:13
  And then mountain straight, she's dead.
• 44:15
  And you want to deliver.
• 44:17
  And so, yes, I'm always energising.
• 44:19
  I'm always positive.
• 44:21
  You know, you've got to be around positive people the whole time.
• 44:24
  Negative people don't do anything for me.
• 44:27
  I'm just always positive people.
• 44:36
  That's the end of part one of my podcast with Team 18 Supercars boss, Charlie Schwerkold.
• 44:40
  We are just warming up.
• 44:42
  There is a second installment, a second edition, a part two for you, all loaded up and ready.
• 44:48
  Perfect content to enjoy during the enduro part of the Supercars season.
• 44:54
  And that's when we are scheduled to release this.
• 44:56
  From splitting with DJR and working with other outfits in the pit lane to making the big commitment to go it alone.
• 45:03
  Plus...
• 45:04
  some of the cool cars in his collection and a whole lot more right here on Rusty's Garage.