Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #51: When Your Adult Child Is Suicidal: What Every Parent Must Do Right Now

Transcript

#51: When Your Adult Child Is Suicidal: What Every Parent Must Do Right Now · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot overstate the hope.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's so important for parents to remember that it may take a long time.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: It may take a lot of phone calls.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: It may take a lot of treatment options.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: It may take a lot of medication trials.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: It may take a lot of patience.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it will take a lot of patience.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: But your child can get better.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Are things going to go back to exactly the way they were before?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: There might be a new normal.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: But people can recover from mental health struggles and they can live fulfilling, meaningful, happy lives if they get the treatment and the support that they need.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want parents to remember that more than anybody else, they can be that hope for their child.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because inherently, struggling with a mental health issue brings can bring hopelessness.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the person who is best suited to remind them who they really are, aside from their symptoms, aside from their diagnosis, aside from their treatment, the best person to remind them of who they really are is their parent or their family member, that person that loves them and knows who they're supposed to be when they're well.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I would also encourage parents to remember that that's your job.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Keep reminding your kid that they're smart, that they're funny, that they're good at sports, that they're that they're that that they're an amazing friend.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Remind them of who they really are, and that helps bring hope too.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch, a podcast that speaks directly to worried and frustrated parents of adult children.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: If your young adult is unmotivated, struggles with low self-confidence, has difficulty keeping a job, prefers to spend time alone, is disrespectful, yet relies on you for everything, well, you're in the right place.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: Before we begin, I want to acknowledge that today's topic is very sensitive and may be triggering, especially if you're a parent of an adult child who's experiencing suicidal thoughts or severe depression.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: My guest today is Tara Rolstadt, speaker, author, and a trained mental health advocate with more than 15 years experience.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: She's the founder of the Parenting and Mental Health Conference and has partnered with NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: Her newest book, What to Do Right Now When Your Child is Suicidal, is a step-by-step guide for parents facing one of the most frightening times of their lives.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: As a parent and foster parent of adult children with mental health struggles, Tara's lived experience is a testament that you and your adult child can get through this.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Today's conversation is meant to offer you hope, support, and compassionate guidance.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_04: You'll find all the important resources in the show notes.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: As always, remember to hit the follow button so you never miss an episode.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I really hope you share this conversation with someone who needs to hear it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: Let's get started.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Tara.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to launch.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: I am really glad to have you here today.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to be here.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: I have already, as we discussed, I've already warned our listener in the intro about this episode because this is such a sensitive topic.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: But with suicide now one of the leading causes of death among young adults, it's a conversation we can't avoid.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_04: So thank you for being here.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're exactly right.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: We can't avoid it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm glad we're talking about it.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_04: Your newest book, What to Do Right Now When Your Child is Suicidal, is a step-by-step guide with practical tools for parents who are facing an immediate crisis.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: But before we get into that, I'd love to start off by asking you if you can share with the listener a bit about yourself, your personal story, and why you felt this book needed to be written.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote this book because my family has been through it, uh, been through it, and found so little to support us in the situation.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: So until about 15 years ago, my family was incredibly um boring, uh, had never had any major struggles at all in our family with mental health that we were aware of, that we knew about.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And about 15 years ago, my husband and I, at the time we had three little kids of our own, two, five, and seven.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we were called to take in a couple of our nieces as foster kids.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now they were my brother's kids, but my brother had died many, many years before.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, their childhood after he passed had been very unsafe.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: They had experienced a lot of abuse, a lot of trauma.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so they came to us with significant mental health issues because of that trauma and abuse.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh one of the girls was 14, and her story is the one I share, and uh, with her permission.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be honest with you, until that point, I didn't really know much about mental health issues.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I knew the little bit I'd read in women's magazines, because this was, you know, long enough ago that people still read magazines.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that was really it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And almost overnight we had this child in our home who was actively self-harming.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: She was suicidal, she was experiencing significant post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD, um, which for her meant hypervigilance, not not sleeping.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um she was very, her emotions were very erratic, and she was very, very, very depressed all the time.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a crash course that started then and went on for the next several years as we walked alongside her trying to help her heal and go through mental health treatment and become the person she was meant to be.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it all started.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: So because you have such a long history of parenting with mental health, with mental illness and suicide ideation, looking back, what do you wish you could tell the younger version of yourself?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: Is there something that you would have done differently?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we don't have time for that long list of things, Sherry.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: The things I would have done differently, the mistakes I would not have made.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Next book.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, exactly.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: I first of all, I would have told myself, my younger self, my inexperienced, naive, absolutely clueless self, hang on, it's gonna be okay.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is gonna feel hopeless and it's gonna feel hard for a really long time, but you're gonna come out the other side and so will she.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be okay.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because we had years where we weren't sure about that, where we weren't sure if she would survive her mental health struggles.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh that little peek into the future certainly would have been helpful, and we don't ever get that, right?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: We don't ever actually get that assurance of how things are gonna turn out.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, what else I would have told myself?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I would have told myself to get educated as quickly and as fully as possible because so many of us come into parenting with absolutely no background in understanding mental health disorders or how they're treated.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would have encouraged me to sleep as much as I could, whenever I could, um, because sleep was going to be uh at risk for a while since I still had a two-year-old and I had a suicidal 14-year-old.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would have encouraged myself to get a therapist for myself the moment things got hard.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't, and it was years of um this child needing the highest levels of mental health treatment and in and out of the psych unit, in and out of residential mental health treatment.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody ever said to me, Hey, girlfriend, you should probably get some extra support for yourself.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it would have been so helpful because this is what I think parents don't understand, people don't understand.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to go to therapy j only if you have a diagnosis.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: You go to therapy because whatever you're going through is too freaking hard to do by yourself.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's um it's too freaking hard to do without some expert backup, to without an another opinion, without somebody to bounce off ideas or your scary thoughts that you don't even want to burden your spouse or your family or your friends with.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I would have done that a lot earlier.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_04: And how was your attitude towards suicide at that time or mental illness at the time?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: What how did you feel about it when your niece would would talk about it?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have a certain terrifying, absolutely terrifying?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you realize very quickly that even if it's a child in your home, you can't have full control over their actions.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can't.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot sit next to them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, forever.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea that we might lose her was sometimes so terrifying and overwhelming that it was hard to think straight.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was hard to manage the rest of my life.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, I had four other kids at home, all little, all of whom needed to eat three times a day, every day, plus snacks.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then they had to go to school and we had to do laundry, and somebody had to drive people that here and there.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was a lot going on.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I was managing all of that while managing this kind of existential terror of whether or not my niece would survive.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and even when things were fairly stable, and we had periods of time where where it felt like things were fairly stable, there was still just um a lot of depression, a lot of anxiety.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: There was still just helping her manage her emotions, which had never been grounded in the foundation of a healthy family and healthy attachment and healthy um love.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of it was overwhelming.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: How did this impact?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, you're how how long did this last?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: So she was 14 when it started.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Your kids were little.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: She was 14 when it started, the the kids were super little, and um she was in and out of our home until she aged out of foster care and um moved into her own apartment.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh even then I was and am her primary family person, and so that responsibility didn't end then as it doesn't with our biological kids.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um they're ours going forward, and so she's she's now in her early 30s, spoiler alert, she's doing great.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, and I'm still her primary family person and still love her and talk to her and support her and encourage her.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Did what what was the impact on the other kids?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, when they were little, it's different because I you know, little kids are little kids, but as your your children were getting older, were they uh affected?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Did they see what was going on with with the family, with her and you and your husband?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well what role do you think, or how do you think that might have impacted your kids as they were getting older?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Some of that is still to be determined for sure.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: My kids are now uh in their late teens and early 20s, but they certainly lost some time and some focus from me.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to hope and pray that that loss is balanced out by what they gained from watching our family come around these girls and take care of them and love them.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: They learned from a very, very early age to talk about brains and talk about the fact that sometimes brains get sick and need extra help, and sometimes brains get so sick that people need to go to a doctor, they might even need to go to the hospital.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my kids learned how to visit people in residential mental health treatment, which by the way is not a super fun visit.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they learned how to bring milkshakes and silly crafts and board games.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um they learned all of those things at a really young age, and I hope and I believe that that made them more open to the conversation.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: It made them more comfortable with talking about it with their friends, and hopefully when they grow up, if they become parents, talking about it with their kids.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it was stressful.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was stressful for them.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I sometimes it was sad for them.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I I don't know all of the impacts yet.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we'll never know for sure all of the impacts.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: In one of your blogs, you write about the three myths we need to bust about suicide.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna ask you about those myths throughout the conversation.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_04: So let's start with myth one.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Talking about suicide will make someone more likely to attempt it, true or false?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: False, false, false, false, false.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Talking about suicide will not make a person think about suicide if they haven't already thought about it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And this extends to our children because we do not want to have that conversation with our kids.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: We would much rather think that our kids have never even contemplated suicide, that they don't even know what it means.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: But that is, if I was 90, I would say that was poppycock.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because they have.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: They know what it is, and they're talking about it with their friends, they've seen it on TV, they know about it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so what happens when we talk about suicide openly to a person who maybe is thinking about suicide or who has maybe struggled with those thoughts, is we let them know we're a safe place.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: We let them know we're a safe person to talk to, and that we can handle those big, scary feelings, and we're not gonna judge them, we're not gonna shame them, and we're not gonna run away from it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And in turn, what that does is for a person who's struggling with suicidality or suicidal thinking, it reduces their stress level.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: It takes some of the intensity out of those thoughts because they're not alone with them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's always okay to ask a person about it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's always okay to ask your kids about suicide.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um they might be annoyed, they might be frustrated, that, but it it's not gonna make the situation worse.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what you mean in one of your suggestions in your book, I believe you say ask the hard questions.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you're worried about it, if you even have an inkling that this might be an issue, it's okay to say, hey, I've noticed this, you seem shut down, I've noticed you're not hanging out with your friends, whatever it is that you've seen, kind of voice that to them and then say, sometimes, you know, people can get really depressed or feel hopeless.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, you know, people even think about ending their life or hurting themselves or killing themselves.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is that something you've ever thought about?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you have ever thought about that, I want you to know you can talk to me about it and it's gonna be okay, and we'll get help.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: So is that what you mean when you talk about getting real?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because you do mention that a lot.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: You get say get real with yourself, with what your kid is experiencing.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: It seems like you you really encourage parents to talk about mental health with their kids.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: It seems like you're a big advocate of that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge advocate for that because nothing good happens when we don't talk about it.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing good happens when we allow mental health struggles to stay secret, to stay in the dark.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: What that does is it gives people a really clear message, whether we intend it to be or not, gives them a very clear message.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Don't talk about this.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not available to that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: That scares me.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can't handle that, you can't handle that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's not talk about it.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a recipe for disaster, honestly.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: What advice do you have for a parent when they first discover that their child might be suicidal?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: What's the very first thing that you suggest they do?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've got two answers to that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: One is breathe because you're gonna stop breathing for a minute.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's not healthy.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So take a deep breath.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second one is take your child seriously.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we dealt with this with my niece for years, and then uh she grew up and moved out, and our kids continue to grow up as kids do.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And as life would have it, our middle child we discovered, lives with severe depression and autism and anxiety and ADHD.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: So complex kid.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to face this with her a few years ago.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: She came to us one morning and shared that she was suicidal.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: This was a surprise.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as I said, we'd known that she was depressed and had anxiety, and she'd just been diagnosed with ADHD, but we didn't know how serious it was.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in that moment, all of the lessons that I'd learned with my niece, everything that we've been through, that came home in a very, very personal way.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to take your kids seriously in that moment.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: The temptation is to think they don't really mean that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're this is a phase.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, some parents even think their kids just trying to get attention, don't do that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Take your kid seriously.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I just I can't put it any more baldly than that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I suppose that I could say, because if you don't, dot dot dot, you don't you don't want to live in that dot dot dot.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so the first thing that you should do is find out first thing you should do is thank them for sharing it with you, actually.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for letting me know that you're feeling that way.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's so scary.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so sorry you're doing you're feeling that way.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then find out, um, are these just uh are these are are these just thoughts or do the thoughts involve plans?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: To have they thought about how they would do it, when they would do it.
• 20:21
  unknown: That's okay.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um those are the kinds of questions that will help you decide is this something that we can manage and then get an an urgent appointment with the um a therapist or psychiatrist, or is do we need to head to the emergency room?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you are even the slightest bit concerned about their immediate physical safety or your ability to keep them safe, it's it's an emergency room situation.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, unless your community has an like an urgent walk-in clinic for mental health issues, which is is even a better situation, but not all communities have that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, too often the emergency room is kind of the first step for those really urgent um immediate suicidal crises.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: But you can always call 988, which not a lot of people know about yet.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: 988 is the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, and it's 24-7.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can call and they'll tell you, like you share with them what's going on and and that you're worried about this person.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what do you do?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: How how what are my next steps?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll help you make a plan based on what's available in your local community.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Your kids should also know that number, by the way.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: They should know that number, they should have it in their phone, they should know they can text if they don't want to call.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: They can text it and they'll get trained help back.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm gonna put it in the show notes.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's 988.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: 988.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, when I'm speaking, To audiences, I have them pull their phones out and make a new contact, which is a whole hysterical generational thing because some of us can never remember how to create a new contact.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I tell them, you know, it might feel silly for me to ask you to put a three-digit number in your phone, but in a crisis, we don't always think clearly.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so how fantastic to have it there and you can search for it.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: I love the fact that you identified uh whether or not there's a plan.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like that's next level.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: And when a parent says, my child refuses help or denies that there's a problem, what then can they do?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: They they come to you, but when you want to take it to the next level of getting them help, bringing them to emergency, getting on the phone, they like start to minimize it because now you're involved and you're getting like you're getting worried and you want to do something about it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: How do you what what does a parent do in that situation when now the the adult child or young kid says, no, it's not that bad?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Again, if you are worried about somebody's immediate physical safety, you can always call 911.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I mean if you're concerned that a person is literally about to hurt themselves and is at risk of immediate physical danger, you can call 911.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, and and often you can request a trained mental health responder, crisis person, to come out with that that team, um, and that can be really helpful.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna put the caveat in there that sometimes calling 911, um, you may get a police officer or a fire uh fire person along with uh ambulance.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes that can escalate a situation or it can make people feel unsafe, depending on what community they're from, depending on what they've been through in the past.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that that's a recommendation that that has to be taken with some thoughtfulness and some care.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're worried about their immediate physical safety and they're refusing to come with you, sometimes that's the only option you have.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, that's very much a last resort emergency situation.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's available for exactly that reason.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_04: Myth number two if someone is suicidal, there's nothing to be done.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: It's inevitable.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: True or false.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely false.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: The vast majority, the fat like more than 90% of people who experience suicidal thinking will not die by suicide.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's a relief.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: They won't.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Most people who experience suicidal thoughts will recover from them.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: They can get help, they will get better, they will feel better.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is a huge problem we have in our country when it comes to mental health and mental illness, is we don't talk about the possibility and the likelihood of recovery.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so oftentimes when people are experiencing really serious mental health struggles or serious mental illness, we kind of give up, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of think, oh, well, this is their life now, that's sad.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's absolutely not the case.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: There is effective treatment for mental illness, effective treatment for serious depression, effective treatment for the most significant suicidal thinking.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, is it a hundred percent effective?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is it easy or fast?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: But there is hope for almost everybody, and everyone, I think I can fairly say that, everyone can experience a higher quality of life if they get the treatment and support that they need from the people around them and from the medical community.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, good.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we shouldn't give up.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta hope.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: You have to hope.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not easy.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I shared, you know, my daughter lives with serious depression, and we're now about four years into this adventure, and it's hard.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: It takes a long time for brains to heal.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it takes a long time to find the right medications, it takes a long time to find the right treatment approach, and then for young adults, it takes a long time for them to put all of that together and then grow up.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's tough.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: But there's hope.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's hope.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: I need people to hang on to that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to us about a safety plan.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: What does a good safety plan look like and who should be involved in that?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Safety plan is generally something put together between the person experiencing the suicidal thinking and their therapist or their treatment team.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll say, okay, what do you need to support you when things are hard?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: What are the tools that you need to have on hand to make sure that you can be safe?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh for a child who's in school, maybe somebody who's in high school or in college, that can include who are you gonna call in those moments?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Who are several people that you could reach out to and call so that you've got someone to talk to when things are hard?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um is there a provider, a therapist that you can call?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: You put 988 on there so that they've got that number.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: But then also, what are other things that you can do in the moment to manage these feelings and manage these emotions?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there are sensory types of things that they'll put sometimes in a safety plan.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, remember to listen to the music that you like, remember to smell that scent that you enjoy.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: These are all grounding things that can pull a person out of those difficult thoughts and into the present moment to get them through moment by moment until that passes.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And somebody listening to this who hasn't kind of been through that may think, I cannot believe she just said listen to music when somebody's suicidal.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds so trivial, but all of those pieces, all of those tools, all of those suggestions when put together in a comprehensive plan are the thing, things that help a person kind of survive moment by moment and get through that really overwhelming sense of suicidal thinking until they're kind of through it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: I remember being so flabbergasted that distraction was an appropriate tool for suicidal thinking and an overwhelming depression and anxiety.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Distraction.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds so minimal, it sounds so trivial.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yet that's how we get through life, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's how all of us get through life.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: We, well, I don't want to think about that right now.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna watch a sheet TV show.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or uh I I can't stay in this emotion.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna go read a book for a little bit, I'm gonna go talk to a friend.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: These are all of the tools we all use on a day-to-day basis, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: That you just have to kind of blow up to super power level to help a person who's struggling with suicidal thinking.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's we call that engaging your senses.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: The five senses, when you engage your senses, you're right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: You you take your thoughts away from that one ruminating thought, and now you're focusing on some doing something else, smelling something else, listening to something else, tasting something else.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_04: When you engage your senses, exactly.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Feeling a fuzzy, comforting blanket or a weighted blanket, or that's that stuffed animal, whatever it is that gives you that comfort in the moment that gets you through to the next moment.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Safety plans can also involve specific things like keeping them safe from objects that they've thought about harming themselves with.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So oftentimes, you know, people may be familiar with locking up medications, locking up sharps, knives, scissors, those kinds of things.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: That can be part of a safety plan.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, certainly uh guns, particularly um for any household that has people struggling with depression, I would say um keep them very, very, very locked and secure.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that is not something to mess around with.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you look at all of the ways people might try to harm themselves, um, guns are the most effective.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, they're the most dangerous.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're the most um you can't really come back from that.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so if if I had young people in the house that were struggling with active suicidality, I would absolutely not have weapons in my house.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Guns.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't do it.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I grew up in a rural environment.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: My family was hunters, we were people who had guns in the house.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about that at all.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about I want my kid to live.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want my kid to live.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_04: So, how can a parent know for sure if their adult child is depressed?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because you know, with social media today, a lot of the young adults are self-diagnosing.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: They're not always even getting a doctor to go go through the battery of tests with them.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: So I guess what I'm really going for here is what are the signs that parents should be paying attention to.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, I'm gonna be a teeny bit confrontational, if that's okay.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_04: Bring it on, sis.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: If your child thinks they're depressed, your child is depressed.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: Fair enough.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um we have to give them the dignity of respecting what they believe to be true about themselves.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some things that we can all go wildly awry with when it comes to WebMD and the internet and TikTok, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we can misdiagnose ourselves with some sort of rare, terrible cancer or bizarre, rare condition that I I've done it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I think probably most of us have Googled a symptom now and again, and and that can be dangerous, sure.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: But when it comes to depression, a person who believes themselves to be depressed is very likely depressed.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if I'm sad and you say, I don't, I don't think you're really sad, that is not gonna further our relationship.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um my sad might not be your sad.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: My depressed might not look like what you envision depression look like looking like, but there are some human experiences that we can diagnose for ourselves.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that is one of them.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, depression, anxiety.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: We we know what we feel like.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And here's another one.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Here's another way of looking at that situation.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: If your child tells you that they have decided that they um have a condition, um, that they have diagnosed themselves with something, okay, it means that they're experiencing something that they want to name.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: It means they're experiencing something that they need some extra support with, maybe.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So let's just start there.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just start with, okay, what does that look like for you?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me what that feels like.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me how that is affecting your life, and tell me what you think you need to cope better with it.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they don't need anything.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it just feels good for it to have a name right now.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it won't always have that name.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a great conversation starter that gives you an in for helping them figure out how to take better care of themselves.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because the thing that you don't want is a child who is shut down and isn't talking to you.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we can talk about that too.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: But that's a much harder road, right?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Is a child who's not telling you what they're experiencing, who's not willing to be honest with you or with themselves about what's going on.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a kid that's telling you this is what I'm going through, all right, let's deal with that.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: Perfect sense.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: So now I'm gonna go to that kid that's not talking about it because I I I completely appreciate what you're saying.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: When our kids tell us things, we must always listen and take them seriously.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Now let's talk about the kid that's quietly living in their room.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_04: I I want to get to what are the signs.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: I want you to help parents to kind of read the room when the kid isn't coming to you.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: You were lucky.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_04: Your daughter came to you.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: So lucky.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, many of the signs of of depression or or even mental health issues in general are um a person who has pulled away from the activities that they normally enjoy, who has stopped participating in life.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're sleeping all the time, they're not sleeping at all.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they are not able to function in life the way that a person would normally need to function, right?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: But those are all signs that there's something going on.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there are no easy, obvious answers for this.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um but continually, not I say continually, but always being open to the conversation, always being um a person that they can talk to openly is great.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are they gonna continually want to talk about it?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps as much as their mother would like to continually talk about it?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're not.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: They're not.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think being honest with yourself, and that's why I do say get real a lot, like parents' capacity for denial is limitless.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: We really, really don't want to think there's something wrong with our kids.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: We really, really don't want to think it's as bad as we think it might be.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: We really, really don't want to face that there could be a serious problem.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so we will tell ourselves, oh, it's just it's a phase, it's not that bad.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: They'll grow out of it, they're struggling.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's every kid goes through this.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think sometimes you it it helps to have friends to talk to and say, hey, what do you am I am I fooling myself here?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that's also a conversation you have to have carefully, because you don't need that friend who's gonna say, Yeah, you should kick them out.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it just tell them to get out and figure it out themselves.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're not doing anything, lazy, laying around the house all the time.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's not helpful.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what we need.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because if our kid is struggling with a serious mental health issue, what they need is support.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we need to look at supporting our kids, adults or otherwise, with mental health issues, the same way we would look at supporting them if they had another serious chronic illness.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because mental health, mental illness is a chronic illness.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: It is sometimes a serious chronic illness, no different in the level of support that it needs than if your child had um serious diabetes that wasn't controlled, or if they had cancer, or if they had um, I don't know, I'm stretching right now.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: I should have better examples on hands, but I don't.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's okay.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: It all makes sense.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: Anything that's physical, a physical ailment is terrible.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Anything that's physical.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: If your child had a serious, terrible case of pneumonia or long COVID, you wouldn't expect them to get up in Adam the next day and and go back to work in school like nothing happened.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Of course not.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: They would need extra rest for a long time, maybe months.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: They would need uh they would need patience, they would need extra help with things they ought to be able to do on their own for a long time, maybe months.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in the same way, healing and recovering from or living with a serious mental illness can require that extra level of support for a really long time.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: But none of that is going to happen well or effectively if you're not being honest with yourself about what's happening.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really the first step is is this normal or is there something going on here that we need to talk about?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if they absolutely won't talk about it, that's a really hard road.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really, really hard road.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: And all I can encourage you is to say, um, it's okay to set some boundaries.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to say, well, we are going to talk about it because you're living in our house and we're paying for your food.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's okay for me to expect us to have this conversation.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is what adults do.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is what family does.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're gonna talk about this.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you just keep trying.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: I think you've touched on most of these, but are there other common mistakes that parents make?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_04: Unintentionally, of course, when their child is in crisis.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily just when they're in crisis, but I and I have touched on this a little bit, but I do think it's so easy for us to be invalidating to our kids.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was extraordinarily skilled at being invalidating.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and when I say invalidating, I mean when your child tells you they're depressed, and you say, out of the best of intentions, out of love and worry and concern, you say, Oh, honey, you shouldn't be depressed.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're so smart, you have so many friends, you're you're the captain of the soccer team, you are so pretty.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: What that says is what you're telling me about your feelings doesn't count.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not really listening to you.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's invalidating, and it doesn't feel good.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't feel good when someone does it to us, it doesn't feel good when our when we do it to our kids.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I so I mentioned that my daughter has uh is on the autism spectrum, and we didn't find that out until she was about 20.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: She has a psychiatric nurse practitioner that she works with, and they had come to this conclusion together.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not something that we had ever discussed that before or thought about.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: So when she told me, my initial reaction as a mental health expert, author, and speaker was to say, No, you're not.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, invalidating much.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's our natural response sometimes.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's understandable, it's human, but it's also not helpful or kind or compassionate.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to kind of take a breath, listen, I'd educate myself.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the more I learned and the more she explained how it affected her, the more I was able to say, Oh, yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: I get it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we all mess up.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: We all mess up.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and the best you can do is admit it.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Say, gosh, I wish I'd handled that differently.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, shouldn't have said that.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what I wish I would have said.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what I've been thinking about.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: This, this, this is what I wish I would have said.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, our kids will forgive us, and you know what?
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's helpful for them to see that we screw up and that we're willing to face up to it and admit it and do better.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's all we can do.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, in all honesty, I think we're coming from a place of fear.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: We're afraid for them.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're afraid for them, and that's the denial, right?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're scared, we don't want to see what's really right in front of us.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: And if we pretend it's not happening, la la la la la, maybe it will stop happening.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: But that doesn't work with parenting.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, especially for the what's going on on the inside, the internal state of mental state, because when they're younger and they fall and they scrape their knee, it's easy for us to fix their boo-boos, but on the inside, we can't we can't fix and rescue them.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: So we we feel helpless.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a lot of emotions that go into us denying and not validating with all due respect to you.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's because you had already gone through years of it and now it's like, here we go again.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think our emotions can be a real barrier to our kids' healing if we don't own them, if we don't take care of them separately.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: We can't make our kids be responsible for our emotions.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um We can't make our kids be responsible for our fear and our anxiety for their well-being.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: We can't do it.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's not fair to them.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: It adds to the burden that they're already carrying.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's our job as the grown-ups to handle that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll also say that, and this has been, I uh once um we were dealing with my daughter's mental health struggles, I finally did go and get myself a therapist uh because I was starting to have significant anxiety of my own that was manifesting itself physically.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was having panic attack symptoms, I was having racing heartbeat, like the whole thing.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to go and get my own therapist.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been just amazing.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's been so helpful.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things it's been helpful with is beginning to really sit in the fact that this is my daughter's journey.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not my journey.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't wish it on, I wish it wasn't her journey.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I could fix it.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I could take it all away.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I could kiss the boo-boo and make it stop.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: But to a certain extent, she's 22 now.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: She has to walk this out for herself.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's my job to support her, to provide her the resources she needs still because she needs that support.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I can't fix this.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's her life and her experience, and it's unfair and it's awful, but it's hers.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to be separate from that, and I have to be a support and not try to fix it all the time.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because by the way, that drives her crazy.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: Does it?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 45:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: Myth number three.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: These are your myths, right?
• 45:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:45
  unknown: Okay.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: People who talk about or attempt suicide are just looking for attention.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: True or false?
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: False makes me angry and makes me want to say harsh things like, do you really want to screw around and find out?
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a very harsh thing to say.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: But there are some parents who are so deep in their own misunderstanding or willful refusal to learn more about mental health issues that they're very much stuck in that.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: She's just trying to get attention.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's just looking for attention.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Here's my answer to that.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, kids are impulsive.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: They are impulsive.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: And even if they're just trying to get attention, they might screw up and really hurt themselves.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: They might screw up and they might die.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Also, if your child is looking for attention by saying that they're suicidal, that is messed up.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: That is a child who needs mental health treatment, right?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not our job as parents to decide what that mental health issue is, how to treat it, what the treatment plan should be.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's not our job.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's the professionals.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it is our job to take them seriously.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so all you have to do is to look at that situation and think, well, I don't know if they would really act on this, or if there's a possibility that they're trying to get attention.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what I do know is that either way, this is very serious.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a child who is crying out, and you have to take it seriously.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: Other reason that that makes me angry is that thankfully, I have never experienced suicidal thinking.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: I have never known the type of hopelessness that that comes from.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: But for somebody else to say they're just trying to get attention in the face of pain and hopelessness that deep is really insulting to me.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, off stepping off of my soapbox now.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: No don't to the next question.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: I have another question.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_04: What advice do you have for parents who feel guilty, overwhelmed, alone?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_04: You made reference to friends at one point.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: You also made reference, and you actually specified expert advice.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so in other words, what can they do for themselves while caring for their young adult who's struggling?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you are feeling guilty about the situation, if you are wondering if this is your fault somehow, my advice is you ain't got time for that.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: You ain't got time for that.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you are in a situation where you are actively allowing your child to be abused by somebody else in your home, you don't have time to worry about why this happened, how this happened, what are the genetics, was it the brie I ate while I was pregnant?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_02: Stop it.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just stop it.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have time for that.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's no uh positive to be gained from that line of thinking.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you've got too many other things on your to-do list and too many other uh things that need your attention to be wasting your time and energy on a guilt.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not going to get you anywhere.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what can parents do to support themselves?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when you're supporting a child with a mental health issue, you need to be very strategic about self-care.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's very tempting if you're a parent in that situation to roll your eyes when somebody says self-care.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very tempting because you got a lot going on.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: You have a lot on your plate, you don't have time for self-care.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the deal: it's not a luxury, it's not self-indulgent, it's a necessity.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure that you are getting enough sleep.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure that you're fueling your body with food that builds you and doesn't hurt you.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure that you are in regular contact with friends and family that love and support you.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um you need to be sure that you are moving your body regularly and that you're going outside once in a while and looking at some leaves on a tree and getting some exposure to nature because that's so powerful for our brains and it's so healing.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all of those things are critically important to the caregiving process because that's what this is.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: You're a caregiver.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And um we would very much like to think that at the end of this process we will get a gold star for being the ones who toughed it out or pushed through or gritted our teeth and sucked it up and just worked harder.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: I am here to tell you that there is no gold star, there is no award, there is nothing on the other side of that other than physical consequences.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: Physical consequences that come from untreated stress and untreated lack of sleep and worry, and none of it's good.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we need to minimize that by taking care of ourselves.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because by the way, if we're not taking care of ourselves, we're not going to be able to be there for our kids.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they deserve the best of us, not the least of us.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um I love what you're saying.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's just it's almost like beautiful.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I just want to I want the listener to sit with it.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't want to keep coming back at you as something.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I just sometimes I just want to sit in the moment with you and let that resonate with the listener.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_04: But I want you to tell us about your your parenting and mental health conference that you uh that you founded.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is something I've been doing for several years now.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I do it whenever I can find a funder and an audience that a community wants to bring it in.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a conference that gives parents a safe place to come learn about all of this, um, to come hear about how to support their kids, how to what the warning signs are.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: It I share my story, and then I also generally have a panel of experts from the local community, therapists, school counselors, school mental health experts, and they can ask them whatever question they are struggling with and get expert answers from that panel.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then oftentimes there are also other parents that share their stories and share their experiences of parenting kids with various mental health experiences because most kids, um, depression and anxiety are the most common mental health issues that kids experience, but kids also experience eating disorders, they experience bipolar disorder, they experience psychosis.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these are all things that our kids can struggle with.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so having parents who can share what that journey was like for them is really helpful in terms of building community and helping people understand that they're not alone.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: I love the power of community.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, oftentimes I I make reference to how important it is for young adults getting out of their room and finding like-minded individuals and in real life experiences.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: But I love how you are so supportive for parents to have that sense of community.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's uh I I don't know what I would do without.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: I have a very small, tight group of girlfriends that have we've been friends um for a very long time.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what I would do without them, honestly, to have walked me through all of this with my nieces, with my daughter.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they have kept me upright some days.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: They have, you know, they've been the ones to show up uh with a lasagna because somebody was in the hospital again.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I would encourage everybody that's listening, whether or not you're currently parenting a child with a mental health struggle, know that the things that you would do for a friend who was um coming home from a surgery or a friend who had a new baby, all of those things are exactly the right things to do for a family that's struggling with a mental health crisis.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: Bring them a meal, call them, check in on them, offer to go for a walk, offer to bring over dessert.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: Any of those things that we do for people in those other situations that we're so good at, we're so good at taking people, taking care of people in those situations.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: People who are struggling with a mental health crisis need all the same stuff, right?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such an easy way to be a good friend and to show up and love them.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it means everything.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: So we kind of we're we're playing there's two there's two levels of support here.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: The you're talking about the support from your friends and family, and but we also said that you about this the parenting and mental health conference, which is support from people that are not friends and family, but are going through the same thing.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_04: So what what do you suggest to a parent that wants to talk to people that are going through it?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: As supportive as friends are.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: The first place that I would start is to look and see if they have a local NAMI chapter.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, NAMI is the National Alliance on Mental Illness.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: They're national organization, they're very well respected, and they have a ton of free training and support groups that are all free and evidence-based.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so I talk about NAMI whenever I get the opportunity because it's such a great organization.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they do often have parent support groups where you can go and just kind of share with other people who are walking through that same thing.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if there isn't uh a NAMI chapter in your area that has those available, they often have online options as well, um, Zoom uh type things.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes local behavioral health agencies, local mental health treatment centers will be will run those same types of parent support groups.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another place to look.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then honestly, I I we live in an online world now, and so it's maybe not as good as being together physically, but there are lots of uh Facebook groups for parents of kids who are struggling with things that can also be really helpful in a pinch, right?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: In one of your blog posts, you um you wrote five things I wish someone had told me about parenting a child with mental illness.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: As we wrap up.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna quiz me, are you?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't remember them.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_04: But as we wrap up, is there would you share some of those?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_04: If there, if there's something in there that we didn't already touch on, because we have covered a lot.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_04: Is there something that you can think that we haven't covered?
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm your blog post is going to be in the show notes.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm I love what you write and how you write.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_04: Your whole tone is beautiful.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's so personal.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like we're talking when you're writing.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I encourage people to go to your website.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_04: But is there anything in those five things that we haven't touched on that you would like to share now?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot overstate the hope.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's so important for parents to remember that it may take a long time, it may take a lot of phone calls, it may take a lot of treatment options, it may take a lot of medication trials, it may take a lot of patience.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it will take a lot of patience, but your child can get better.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are things going to go back to exactly the way they were before?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: There might be a new normal, but people can recover from mental health struggles and they can live fulfilling, meaningful, happy lives if they get the treatment and the support that they need.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be really hard to hold on to that hope.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's there.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: People can recover.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want parents to remember that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to remember that when they're frustrated, when it feels like nothing's changing, when it feels like they're never gonna get better, when it feels like this therapist still can't see them, I can't find.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is a it's a difficult road for sure, but there's hope.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's hope.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want parents to remember that more than anybody else, they can be that hope for their child because inherently struggling with a mental health issue brings can bring hopelessness.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the person who is best suited to remind them who they really are, outside from their symptoms, aside from their diagnosis, aside from their treatment, the best person to remind them of who they really are is their parent or their family member, that person that loves them and knows who they're supposed to be when they're well.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I would also encourage parents to remember that that's your job.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: Keep reminding your kid that they're smart, that they're funny, that they're good at sports, that they're that they're that, that they're an amazing friend.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: Remind them of who they really are.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that helps bring hope too.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to, you know, I always want to leave on a positive note, but we are, that is it.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't get any better than that.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_04: That is the most positive, most beautiful thing you could tell parents right now.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I I do want to leave it at that.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_04: But I will, I I do want to tell you, Tara, how much I appreciate you sharing your insight and your story with us and your whole approach to to suicide awareness.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_04: It it makes it makes the topic so much more easier and and solution focused and hopeful.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_04: So honestly, I'm truly grateful that you that I'm that I found you or you found me, or however we came to each other.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_04: I really do appreciate everything you've shared today.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_04: I will obviously leave your book, What to do right now when your child is suicidal in the show notes, how they can how they can find it.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna leave the suicide hotline as well.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh your contact information.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_04: But truly thank you so much.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: Been a great conversation.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: Me too.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Tara.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_04: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_04: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_04: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_04: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to you soon.