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19: Get Doolen w/ Jon Doolen · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  I'm Kelly Siegel and this is harder than life a podcast about self-love self-awareness business and health We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple practical advice. You can start using today. Let's get living
• 0:15
  I am Kelly Siegel and this is Harder Than Life. I have a seven-time U.S. Army Medal winner, a 30-year master of logistics and operations, a father, a husband, leader, mentor, and all-around good guy. Ladies and gentlemen, the sexy, smart, and sweet, the man that can, let me introduce you to the one and only John Doolin. That's awesome, man. Thank you for that. I don't think I've ever been introduced that way.
• 0:41
  John, I'm gonna deviate from my, I was driving over here today and I just realized something and
• 0:47
  I owe you a thank you, because literally three years ago, it's March 2nd, this won't air for a month or so, it's March 2nd, it was three years ago, that you set wheels in motion that have us sitting here today living arguably our best life to date. And the reason why I want to talk about this is because at the time,
• 1:14
  Now that you've read my book, Harder Than Life, you realize you were part of a chain of events that happened boom, boom, boom to me. That if I was a lesser man, could have turned me into, sent me into a spiral. So thank you. And just to be clear, John...
• 1:33
  fired me and little did he know what was going on behind the scenes as I was battling two women that were chasing after me to take away my daughter. And then the pandemic hit. So within a week, there was four different life events that happened where my head was spinning. And you didn't know any of that until you read my book. Yeah.
• 1:58
  And here we are three years later, and I got nostalgic because now we're friends, and we're in better places, both of us. And that could have just went so bad. So whenever you think that life is working against you, it's working for you. And that is a classic example where I remember at one point,
• 2:23
  Right when at 5 o'clock on March 20th, 2020, that I just, I got the final blow of bad news that I'd lost my daughter for a couple of weeks and the pandemic was hitting and nobody knew what was going on. And I'm looking around like, what is going on? I remember looking up and going, what are you trying to teach me? You know, talking to God.
• 2:49
  And I said, and I literally said this, I am tougher than this. You know I am tough. There's nothing you're going to do to break me. I looked over at my scotch, which was in the book, and I just said, I'm going to grab a cigar and I'm going to leave. And I just went for a long drive, and I cleared my head, and it was, all right, here's what I got to do, and I checked it off.
• 3:08
  So having said that, I've deviated from thinking, what are your thoughts on that? Because you're in the positivity business, and that is the litmus. I don't think anybody's going to have to deal with what I had to deal with. That's a little much, but I'm hard-headed, very hard-headed. And I learn begrudgingly through difficult times. But I'm telling you, life is so good now. Thank God that happened. I agree. Couldn't agree more. So it's interesting, Kelly, because...
• 3:38
  when, you know, I've marked up the book, you know that. I brought you a clean copy. So you could either give it away or I could sign it, whatever you want. So thank you. That's an honor. Thank you. So when we first met, it was shortly after I moved to Michigan. And
• 3:58
  I don't know that we ever had this conversation because I don't think you and I ever really went down the faith path of any discussion except for I would send you the text message because you're the only person I can get away with texting at 430 in the morning. You know, happy Hanukkah, you know, whatever, whatever the situation was. But...
• 4:16
  Um, I, I, I'm in Michigan today, I believe because God puts us where we're supposed to be. And something I never got to tell you was through the whole process of negotiating the deal to move to Michigan. I kept saying, no, no, no. And every time I said no, something happened that I finally had to turn to my wife and say, I've been praying for a change. And every time I say no.
• 4:46
  The reason I'm saying no gets resolved. I think this is where I'm supposed to go, which we all know the story, I ended up there. Day one, I said to myself, I think I might have made a mistake. I was there for less than an hour, and I said, something's not right here.
• 5:09
  But obviously I stuck it out. March 23rd was a Monday, I believe. It was either 20th or 23rd. I don't remember which day it was specifically, but it was a Monday. It was the day the governor signed the paper shutting us down. I had an offer from another company. A good offer that I eventually took. But at that moment I said, I can't do this right now because if I do this right now, everybody's going to write me off and say...
• 5:39
  you did this because the governor shows down.
• 5:44
  it was coincided with the events you just talked about. Had I just said yes to that, that moment between us wouldn't have happened. And now the reality is I believe everything happens for a reason. And I agree with you. I, I'm living a great life now. I'm living the best life right now. Yeah. And you know, when I read your book, I, the, the, the blue marks are every moment where I said, holy crap, I,
• 6:12
  We are so much alike. Our journey has been so similar. Now, I did not know what you were going through. And I'll tell you that that really did break my heart a little bit. I want to tell you that I part of the journey that come of this, the good part of this as. By writing the book, I realized vulnerability is cool. And I could have had that conversation with you, but I was too afraid. I had to process that. Literally what God did is took everything from me. Everything. Everything.
• 6:41
  I lost my daughter, who's the only thing that matters, as you read in the book. Oh, I knew that before. I lost, I thought I was losing my company. I lost my freedom, and it just took away my gym. Took away everything. I lost everything, and I systematically built it back, and here we are three years later. Our revenue's stronger, and then everything started happening good. Oh, yeah. If I could just sit, and I did, I just sat,
• 7:08
  In that weekend, the 21st and 22nd, I just sat by myself all weekend long crying.
• 7:15
  Woe is me. And then Monday enacted the plan and started checking things off. By Wednesday, I had my daughter back. By the week later, we started getting things getting right with financially. And then when I tell you a series of events, just chain of events just happened for me. By that going away, we qualified for the PPP loans. I met Chrissy, who was in our book. And I just...
• 7:40
  John, thank you. And now I get to enjoy you for you because neither one of us were our best self then. We were both scared and nervous and two inner children were forced to interact. And I'm speaking a little bit out of turn, but I'm gonna give you all the time you want, but I'm grateful.
• 8:05
  I'm getting choked up because life is so good right now and everything worked out. And I just want to let you know I love you. And I'm really, really close. I'm glad that we stayed friends. And you were an upstanding person. And you called me and said, I owe you an apology. And most people don't. They just dig in and they double down on the wrongness. And you didn't. And that's why you're here today. And we're going to introduce the world today.
• 8:31
  to John Doolin, getdoolin.com. You got to look this guy up. He's, the positivity is second to none. And I just getdoolin.com is number one. So I want to flip this over to you. We did the, the, the machine. I love you. I'm very happy. Everything happens for you and not to you. When you're going through hard times, just keep going. John, what's your story? Why does it matter? Why does your story matter?
• 8:58
  So thank you for all of that, Kelly, because the way things went down, you knew and you even said it to me at the time. I know you're just doing your job. But it's because of what you did for me that I'm living my best life. And I think you know where I'm going with this. Stop it. You're literally making me. All right. So I'm going to go there a little bit. So here's the thing.
• 9:26
  You did something for me while I was sitting out my non-compete. You don't realize, or maybe you do, I don't know, because you never answer the question when I asked you point blank. But because of what you did, you allowed my non-compete to go away
• 9:42
  And when that went away, it opened up a door for me to go back into my industry of logistics, which I love. And where I landed, I want to read this to you because you're going to think you wrote it. Our purpose, this is my company's purpose. Riverstone Logistics is a company I work for. We exist to use our God-given talents and opportunities to love our neighbors, serve our community, and improve our industry. Hmm.
• 10:10
  And it is because of what I'm allowed to do with Riverstone and Riverstone completely embraces my get Doolin positivity message and the mentoring. You know, I mentor with a couple of different agencies for veterans that are leaving the service, any branch of the service, although Army is the one I prefer. So I'm mentoring right now about 20 different people.
• 10:34
  helping them transition their career into the civilian world. And I get to do all of this. I do have to travel a bit, but for the most part, I get to work from home. And so I get to be with my kids. Our daughters are the same age. And I met your daughter. I could see it from a mile away. That is your world.
• 10:53
  I'll be honest, I'm glad I didn't know what you were going through when you were going through it, because it would have crushed me. You know I lived away from my family for five months when I first moved to Michigan. Towards the end of that time period...
• 11:05
  it was horrible. I couldn't stand it. I was, I probably drove my wife insane with just how needy I was towards the end of that five months. So, you know, that that's, that's what I'm doing now. Now it is, what can I give back? How can I help other people to live their best life? Because I look around me and I'm blessed. I've got an amazing wife, amazing kids, and
• 11:31
  We are friends because you have the ability to see through. I have the ability to see through that surface layer. The vulnerability you talk about, there's a guy, Nick Freitas, he's a Virginia politician. He's got an Instagram page that's just hilarious. You should check it out sometime. Just real simple. Reminds me of the guy from Parks and Rec, the main character there.
• 11:55
  Just real simple messages every day. But he said something one day that you and I relate to. And that is, you know, when it hits the fan, you've got to have that tough side. You've got to be able to get in and get the job done. But where you and I come together is you've got to also have that vulnerable side. You've got to be able to relate to people. You've got to meet them where they are. You've got to be able to help them step forward.
• 12:22
  Because what I get out of this, and it was great, I was telling one of my mentees this, because she was asking me, why do you sacrifice so much of your time for other people? And I said, because I'm building my network.
• 12:35
  What I'm doing right now is what other people did for me. I have mentors that I look up to in my industry, and they've been there for me. When I needed advice, when I just needed to vent, when I was going off on the deep end with my anxiety, they talked me down. And I get to be that person for other people now. And the truth is, if you hadn't done for me what you did for me when you did it, that door that opened wouldn't have been open for me.
• 13:01
  you know, all I did was just, just fight and scrap and be kind. In the end, I was, you know, I, when you called to tell me, I was actually walking through Birmingham with my daughter and we, you know, I had to keep a straight face on with her and she's like, what's wrong? I got nothing, nothing. And I was like, Ooh, and that was tough. So I,
• 13:23
  You know, everything, you have to lose in order to win. You do. You have to. And you want good losses. And that was a good loss, man, for both of us. And I'm very, very grateful for it. And so I want to dig deep into this. And we're already 15 minutes into this. And I want the world to know all about you. So it says on your website, it's on getduelen.com. That's D-
• 13:50
  get D O O L E N.com. It says be 1% better today than you were yesterday. Tell the listeners how you recommend they do that. You know what, Kelly? It's, it's simple, uh, from being, just being a good human perspective on the way here, I took a ride on red. Didn't, didn't, it was legal. There was, there was nobody I interfered with.
• 14:15
  And I'm 100 yards down the road, and I see in my rearview mirror, a car just comes right up on me. And I thought, hmm, that's weird. First thing I could have said was, well, I'm going to slow down and teach him a lesson. But you know what I said? I have no idea what that guy's going through. Maybe he's rushing to the hospital. Maybe he's going somewhere.
• 14:33
  So I got out of his way. I let him pass me. He told me I was number one. So I must have done something to impress the guy. But, you know, it's moments like that because we all have those moments. I don't know what that guy was going through, but the speed limit wasn't for him. So I moved out of his way to let him go because I was going too slow.
• 14:52
  We all have those moments. Every day throughout our life, you have these moments where you come in contact with other people and you have a choice. You can leave your shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot or you can put it back. You can hold the door for the person behind you or you cannot. Now, I'll tell you some of the things I do.
• 15:08
  If I am in a restaurant or a place of business where there's a law enforcement officer or first responder or soldier, I will absolutely do anything I can to confidentially pay for whatever it is they're buying. A few times I've stepped right in front, I've asked their permission. Some of them don't like it. But these are just simple ways. You've heard the thing about pay for the meal of the person behind you. If I can see that the person behind me is wearing some type of service uniform, if it's a construction worker, a nurse, a police officer, whatever,
• 15:38
  absolutely there's no doubt about it. I'm paying for whatever it is they're buying. That is backfired on me one time. They were getting a lot of stuff, but I still did it. You know, and a lot of people don't have those means. I love that. I love it. I got to tell you a funny story. So you, you read in my book that I was, that I did a little jail stint and I was criminal justice major. But the funniest thing is, so my daughter and I, every Sunday go to breakfast, every other Sunday, go to breakfast and we were at brunch and I bought, there was a place right by my house where it,
• 16:08
  So 10, 12 police officers go and have brunch. And I, I said, Hey, do you, I want to pick up their bill, but don't say anything. I picked up their bill. Of course, one of them knew me from who knows what, probably, you know, philanthropy or anyways, uh, the next time I was there, they bought us breakfast and my daughter goes, dad, that's a turn of events. The police are actually buying you breakfast.
• 16:33
  So my buddies from Western and everybody that knows what I've been through with law enforcement, police did buy me breakfast. So and then they come over and talked. And now I've got a really good relationship with everybody. So it is just loving yourself and just realizing that we're all human. Yeah. And literally through all the stuff that we did. And when I first met you, I was like, oh, my God, this guy's driving me nuts. But I could tell that you were in an unwinnable situation.
• 17:03
  And so was I. You know, here's the thing though, Kelly. I hope that some of the people that work with me watch this because I get that a lot. There's a gentleman who lives in Charlotte, North Carolina. He runs one of my docs for me. Super great guy. He makes no bones about the fact that he would like to punch me in the face. I wanted to do that a couple of times. You know, in my life, I've never actually been punched in the face one time. But I... In the army? Nobody? No, no, seriously. Yeah.
• 17:34
  but I've been told many times that people have had that urge, but here's, here's what's interesting is the same people who have that urge end up being my closest friends. Yeah. Because what they see is the passion that I have towards things being done right is the same passion I have towards the friendship, the relationship, whatever it is, your life is now my life and whatever I can do to help your life be better. That's what boils into that. Be 1% better today. Yeah.
• 18:01
  It doesn't have to be rocket science. It doesn't have to be coming out of pocket paying for people's meals. But being a better person is free. Paying somebody a compliment. I'm at a restaurant a couple weeks back. The person I'm with got upset their food was cold. I am not someone who normally complains at a restaurant because I've worked in a restaurant. I know that life. But he was really mad. So all I attempted to do was let the manager know, hey, just so you know, we waited a really long time for our food and it was cold when it got here.
• 18:31
  The interaction didn't go well. I got upset. The seven-year-old sitting across the table from me looked up at her and said, my burger was delicious. Thank you. Snapped me right back to reality in that moment. I said, you know what? So what? My food was cold. So what? Yeah. You know? Kids are humbling, man. Yeah. You've said leadership and self-development are your superpowers. Please explain it.
• 18:57
  Yeah, so, you know, I devour books, probably over 300 books a year easily. And I'm constantly listening to audio books. And so self-help books, biographies, history stuff.
• 19:16
  Anything that can just help me see the world from someone else's perspective. And so this is, you know, in every, you know, there was a company a while back that we both knew that about every 45 days I'd have to lay off 20% of the workforce. Never once did they hold me personally accountable. I would always look them straight in the eye and say, here's where we're at. Financially, this is where we're at.
• 19:42
  Always. They might've been mad at the moment, but every single one of those people always came back to me and said, I consider you a mentor. You always care about me. You always want to help me do better. And every chance I had, I helped those people find something new. Well, that's just being, you'll hear me say this, like being genuine and authentic and people can see through it. And I knew that, uh, I knew that
• 20:08
  you weren't being genuine authentic with me when we first met and I knew you were being told to be that way. So I never held it against you, which was the best decision I've ever made. One of the best decisions I've ever made. So, uh, I, you went into that. So I actually have a question about books. So I know that you're an avid reader. What, so what's your favorite book besides harder than life? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So this one, I, I will pick only because, um, um,
• 20:37
  I've recently actually answered this question to somebody else. John Maxwell's 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. It was the first, uh, audio book I ever listened to on cassette tape, uh, back in ladies and gentlemen, he just showed his age. My producer, Grant's like, uh, what's a cassette tape?
• 20:58
  So, uh, now any book by John Maxwell, um, is amazing. So that's probably my favorite book of all time because it changed my life. It changed the direction of my life. And, um, but man, there's so many, there's so many good ones. Uh, Jocko wrote a book. You know, we all know about the one, uh, the, the discipline book. Um, you know, uh, God, I cannot think of the name of it right now. I don't think of it either. Extreme Ownership. Yeah. Extreme Ownership. Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:26
  But he actually wrote another one about the business world. So they went in and they did a workshop, and out of that workshop came a book that takes all of the extreme ownership rules and the dichotomy of leadership. And it puts them into, and it's essentially, it's one of the better books I've read ever.
• 21:50
  in the last 10 years about everyday business leadership and just being a good person, being a good human. So that might be my second one. But quite frankly, it really changes on how emotionally what I'm going through when I read it, like emotional intelligence is, that's like my new jam. And in the last two years specifically, what I've come to realize is it's actually not all about me.
• 22:17
  And that has been shocking for me, Kelly, because I lived my entire adult life thinking everything everyone did had something to do with how they felt about me. And when you have that moment in life where you stand back, like the situation you were going through.
• 22:35
  When we had that final conversation, it was like a breakup. You and I went from talking every day to you wouldn't take my calls. Everything was returned with let the attorneys talk to each other. And I was like, holy crap. I had no idea what you're going through. I was internalizing all that that Kelly hates me.
• 22:57
  So my favorite book is The Four Agreements. You've read it. Yes. So don't take anything personal. Don't make any assumptions. Those are the two hardest ones. Be impeccable with your word is easy for me and always do your best. Simple. The don't make assumptions and what did I just say the other one was? Don't make assumptions and don't take anything personal. Those are the hardest ones. They are. I took that personal too because...
• 23:22
  We can't get into details, but it wasn't my fault. Yes. There was nothing we did. To this day, I don't know what it was, but I still am going to sit back and go, thank you. Thank you. It was good for everybody. Yeah. So again, just stay the course. So I love the four agreements. What was the Jackal? Do you have Jackal's books open? There was another book. Yeah. The other one, Discipline Equals Freedom.
• 23:48
  There was one thing about a bank robbery that he wrote. It was his most recent one. I read that. I haven't read his most recent one yet. It was about being happy with what you have.
• 24:01
  So he took it kind of a satire. I liked it. I'm getting more and more and more. I've read so many about it. They just become repetitive. I mean, even my book, you see how many things I cited from other books. There's only so much that's new. So I kind of like the satires and, you know, like Patrick Liciane books and whatnot. So I am an avid reader. So that's one area where we completely differ. If a book goes fable on me, I'm like, ah.
• 24:29
  I can't do it. If it's telling a true story, I'm cool with that. Well, it's always a true story, but it's fabled characters. Now, I can't go fiction. I just... Yeah. I'm like, it just bores me. Same. I want to be feeding my mind. But lately, I've been reading a lot of the... Like, I'm reading...
• 24:49
  Jay Shetty's nine rules of love or eight rules of love right now. I just, I love love. And I, I just, some of the things that I used to look up to you, I still look up to when I'm a team. I love that you are a family man. I said it in the intro. I love that. Here's what you love your wife and your kids. And, and,
• 25:06
  That's what matters. And that's why we're here talking. And I could see that you're a good person through and through. And I'm looking. I was waiting for us to have this so we could have our bonding moment. And then we're going to start talking more. I just wanted to kind of give it a minute so we didn't steal anything. I wanted this to be absolutely off the cuff. And as soon as this airs, not even as soon as this airs, now that we're done, when we record this, you're going to start hearing from me. I'm going to start sending you things. And we're still friends. We always have been.
• 25:34
  Even during that stuff, that's just the legal guys made you do that. I didn't dislike you. I didn't even hold you accountable. The moment you said it, I felt relieved. Let's talk about some of the winning habits. Boy, 25 minutes into this, quick. What's the first thing you do in the morning? Sadly, I check my messages. I'm in logistics. You never know what can happen overnight. Oh, that's exactly what they teach you not to, and that's exactly what I do, just so you know. I'm waiting for the John Doolin, something's downed.
• 26:05
  So yeah, I do the same thing. And it's because when you're in this business of, of personal development, I get a lot of messages in the middle of the night from people that are having issues. And, and I try to be there for everybody because I'm tough. I'm harder than life. So I, I, I, I got enough to, to pour into everybody's cup. So what's the last thing you do before bed? I check my messages.
• 26:32
  We got to talk. So, all right. Mentor mentees that are listening to him. Don't do as he says, not as he does. You know, it's funny you mentioned that because with this social media thing, I, last time we met, I told you, I was like, this LinkedIn thing is blowing up. I'm getting in amazing reach. So I've actually taken on some mentees from Thailand and just other parts of the country or other parts of the world.
• 26:59
  Which has been really cool, but the time zones throw things off. And so that's another reason why it's the first and last thing I do because I wanna be available. If they have a question, I don't want them to have to wait 12 hours. So it's, I was gonna say, cause I've been to Thailand as you read in the book, 12 hours time difference. So they're ahead of us 12 hours. So it's insane.
• 27:18
  Check your message. That's funny. The trendy thing to do in personal development is to put yourself in hard situations over and over with the, like the ice baths and they tell you to run right into the, to the proverbial storm. What is something that you're, well, having served in the army,
• 27:36
  Nothing as hard as that, but what's something you do to challenge yourself daily? So for me, it is the thing you hate, you know, whatever it is you're afraid of. So I'm not a numbers guy. So that's been what I'm diving into the financial side of our business. And luckily, the guy that I work with right now,
• 27:57
  That's his thing. That's his superpower is math, the numbers, the finances. And where I see my career going is that COO route. You got to know the numbers. You have to know them back your hand. That's the goal that I have for myself. So that is the thing I've been doing to challenge myself lately is I have to be an expert in the numbers of our business.
• 28:20
  Well, I can answer that question for you. Just spend less money than you make. It's pretty easy. Make more money. That's the easiest thing. Yes. Tell us about this.
• 28:30
  Doses of Doolin or hashtag doses of Doolin. So Army veteran friend now that I actually met him on LinkedIn. His name is Neil. I think he was teasing me a little bit one day and commented on that and hashtagged it on LinkedIn that he looks forward to his doses of Doolin every day.
• 28:52
  because I'm constantly out there just spewing whatever it is I feel like you need to know. And here's, for me, my motivation is quotes. So I'll read a quote, and they're loaded in my phone. I've got a little app where I grab them and pull them in.
• 29:08
  And I'll take a quick moment and whatever that quote reminded me of, I write it. So the stuff you see posted, most of that comes from months ago. Of course. I do the same thing. Yeah. And I take notes and then I save memes and then I record videos on it. So it's, you know, that's why I said there's nothing new anymore. Right. So...
• 29:29
  is that if I start tagging things in that and other social media, will it show up? Like if I, I do a lot of Instagram posts and I, because we're going to obviously use that for, make sure that gets added to our social media when we do this. So you'll see all this stuff come out and it's, it's awesome. Yeah. So what's the best piece of advice you've ever received? Yeah.
• 29:51
  The best piece of advice I've ever received was the woman that I married. You know, we met at a bar in college over spring break. It was March. March is a good March for me. It's Feast or Fabbit with you. Yeah. And, you know, what happened was I had met someone at work in the Army, right?
• 30:20
  And that person invited my roommates and I out to an event. And that person worked with the woman who was my wife. And I remember it was a line of people coming in. And the moment my wife and I shook hands, we didn't let go. We stayed tuned in and...
• 30:40
  I won't lie. I was more than slightly intoxicated at the time. And, uh, Oh, that's how, how beer goggled. Yeah. And so, um, so she had given me her phone number. This was back in the day before cell phones. And, uh, I lived a block away from the bar and all I remember was getting home, checking the caller ID and saying to my roommate, uh, I'm not going to be a good one.
• 31:06
  who is this person? This person called us like 20 minutes ago. And he's like, those are the girls from the bar. Call them back. And we had an after party raging at our house. I just told this story a couple nights ago at a church event. My roommate said, let's... I just see my producer laughing at you right now. Church event telling about getting hammered or rager. It was a wine tasting.
• 31:35
  Um, so, uh, my roommate said, Hey, let's go. Let's go to their house. And it was, you know, they were having a little party at their house as well. So we, we literally left our own after party at our house, people in our house partying. And so that was the best advice ever because it really changed my life. Um, what was the advice? I missed it. Let's go to that party. Let's go to that party. That's funny. Um, what's the worst advice you've ever received?
• 32:03
  The worst advice I've ever received. You know, Kelly, that's a tough one because I've already said, I believe everything happens for a reason. And I, I think even the bad things that have happened in my life, they happened to me for a reason because they're, they help me to be a better mentor because I can actually speak from experience.
• 32:25
  So I can pick one if you want one, because I've made a lot of mistakes, but I couldn't pick one out of the crowd. Only if it would help the listeners and it leads to the heart of their life and is a life lesson. Is there a good life lesson in it? Yeah, you know, here's what I'll say. I'll say the worst advice I've ever received is when I've taken other people's opinion for who someone is.
• 32:55
  That I love. Yes. Yeah, because it's happened too many times in my life to the point now that I have to remind myself when I hear someone say something good or bad about someone else, ignore it. Now remember, it's going through all their childhood trauma, all their filters, all their, and then coming out with their spin on it. And I like to figure that out myself. That's what we all need in politics and just in the world. Yes. It's just take the message and not the mess. And I get it.
• 33:25
  We're going to switch a little bit and talk a lot about the get Doolin.com because I've spent a lot of time on it the last two weeks for viewing it. And you really are helping people and giving back. And I couldn't be more proud. So we want to focus on that because the world needs lots and lots and lots of positivity.
• 33:45
  You offer career guidance, almost as if it's counseling regarding toxic work environments or being passed over for promotions. What creates a toxic work environment? How does one know if they're in one? The second question was the bigger one, because if it's all you've ever known, you might not know it. So talk about that. You know, so for me, the easiest way, because that's actually, I've been asked that question by folks like, well, how do I know?
• 34:15
  I said, very simple. When you wake up in the morning, are you excited to go to work? Well, no, but who is? Well, I am. I really can't wait to get to work. Now. Yeah, now. There was a period of time. You're right. You know, and here's what's interesting is when I lived in Nebraska, I had it every morning. I was thrilled to get to work. I loved what I did. But then there was a period of time here, almost four years, where...
• 34:42
  I realized I'm not where I'm supposed to be. I mean, I'm where I'm supposed to be because I've got to figure out what my role is here. But when, you know, so the real blazing signs that people come to me with is, I've got this person that is just driving me insane and they're constantly nagging and the person is either my boss, my coworker, whoever. But they just make it miserable for me to go there. So what I can do and what I do with those folks is I say,
• 35:12
  Do you have an out? What's your resume look like? What's your job options look like? Are you happy where you're at financially? Do you have the ability to leave where you're at and go somewhere else? And if the answer is an absolute, oh yeah, I got all these other options.
• 35:26
  then I know why you're really coming to me. You're coming to me to say, should I take those other options? But there's some folks who don't have that out there, you know, here in the Detroit Metro, there's folks who have so much vested in their job that they have to stay and retire from that job. So helping them deal with those other people. And it comes back to a lot of emotional intelligence. Kelly is helping them understand that the person who is bringing that toxic energy to work, they've got their own issues.
• 35:53
  What if it's them? How do you discern if it's them bringing their own talk? Because that happens too. Oh, it does. A lot of people create their own shit storm. I don't usually swear. They do. So that, again, it comes back to the emotional intelligence side of it. They've got to be able to look in the mirror on themselves. They've got to be able to check themselves. You know, it's interesting. Another friend that I've known for 20 years, we've worked together, said to me one day, 15 years ago,
• 36:19
  Hey, I've got this issue, but I don't want to take it to your people because they're a bit toxic and I need you to help me get this solved. We met up, I think two years ago, we were in the same room in the same city. And, uh, this is a guy I didn't expect this from walks in the room. Hadn't seen each other in a couple of years. Gives me a big old hug. This is a guy who's got all kinds of anxiety issues with being touched. And I'm like completely threw me off.
• 36:46
  But we sat down, we had a nice long talk, and I asked him, I said, do you remember this day you came and talked to me about this? Oh, I do. I said, you were talking about me, weren't you?
• 36:58
  And he goes, yep. And I knew you were smart enough to figure it out. He was coming to me because I was pouring that toxic energy because of my own issues, my own anxiety, my own lack of emotional intelligence. And I was, when I would walk in the room, it would change the energy. I had a high performing team. They were hitting all the goals, but they weren't hitting them in the right way.
• 37:22
  And it was that conversation that made me step back and say, how could my team be toxic? And because I looked at my team and said, well, my team is toxic. How do I change that? It started with me. Like he was able to get his message across. I started to change, which caused my team to change, which was a shell shock to them because we'd be in meetings and something would happen. I said, oh, let's, let's just, let's step away from that. How about if we assume positive intent? Oh, yeah.
• 37:50
  Yeah. Ooh. So I'm going to interrupt because if I think it's in the book where I hired an emotional coach and that was her advice to me. Yes. And it changed my life. It's literally, her name, Brittany, she's a dear friend of mine to this day. I mean, everybody that's been a part of me has stayed in my life.
• 38:10
  Like you. And I'm grateful for that. The funniest thing about it is our friend, our IT friend, the mutual friend that I don't know if we're supposed to say anything, but he's the one that really sent this into crazy. He doesn't even know it. He gave me the book, The Four Agreements. He gave it to me the day he resigned. Oh, okay. And I never read it for months until I was ready. Yeah. And when I was ready, I went, oh, because I didn't want to read. I was mad. I'm like, oh, he abandoned me.
• 38:39
  And that's what we did it say. So hopefully he's listening. I have no hard feelings. I love you. I hope everything is well. I'll make sure he's listening. It could have been done better. And one day when we can have a conversation, I'm all open. But he doesn't know that he was a very big part of it. I still have the note that he left me in the four agreement book. I kept it.
• 39:03
  Because I'm grateful for it. And when you talk about everything happening for you, it just keeps happening. So that's fire, man. That's good stuff. And I say that. And you have to dig deep to figure out what their positive intent is. And sometimes it's just survival. Yeah. That's literally what I had to figure out from my ex-wife and my ex-girlfriend is they were hurting.
• 39:27
  And that was their survival was to try to make me hurt. And once I took the focus off of my, me, me, me, me, and put it over there,
• 39:36
  It was so easy to just move to the next step and stop spinning or been the proverbial hamster wheel. So think about that, guys, what we just said. Yes. Move the focus off of you. It's not about you. And then you can actually look at you. So this proverbial is asking about a friend, not asking for a friend, asking about a friend. And that's that's a good guy. Hopefully you keep in touch with him. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Who holds you accountable for?
• 40:05
  You know, the number one person that holds me accountable is my wife. The number two person that holds me accountable is my 11-year-old. And I tell this story from time to time. You know, I ran the Detroit half marathon. And I don't know if everybody that does that refers to it as the Detroit marathon. But anytime I say it that way, my daughter stops. She goes, you mean the half marathon, right, Dad? Yeah.
• 40:29
  You know, and so it's, the accountable part is interesting because my wife holds me accountable simply by being her. Her values cannot be compromised for anything. She will not be dishonest. She will not break a rule. And I, for a very long time of my life, probably right up until, you know, today I've even done it. Sometimes I just, I'm me. I just...
• 40:57
  I'm oblivious and I walked through life. I don't realize some of the things I'm saying or doing. And my wife has been that one to kind of reel me back in and say, Hey, check yourself on this. And 99% of the time she doesn't even realize she did it. And you might find this funny. My wife doesn't read my writing. I have to specifically say, Hey, did you see what I posted today?
• 41:22
  And I posted something a while back that was really important to me. I'd worked on it for a while and I tweaked it and I thought, I'm going to post this on a very specific day. And I posted it and she didn't read it. And like four times I had to say, hey, did you go read that? And so she is the motivation behind a lot of why I try to be a better person every day. Trying to live up to her standards. You're a man of faith, correct? And you didn't mention God. I didn't. No.
• 41:51
  Do you want to expand upon that or no? I can, but we don't have enough time. I do have a lot of questions left. And we're 42 minutes into this. Also on your website, you offer a mentoring club. Why is having a mentor so important?
• 42:08
  People want to be heard. They need to be heard. People need someone to just say, hey, am I being crazy about this? And a lot of times my conversations will start. Somebody will text or call me and they'll say, I'm feeling a certain way about this. I just need to talk it through. And so what that is, is it's a group of folks that can come together on a group video call. And it's gotta be a video call. We gotta be able to see each other. We're all over the world. Or it's a one-on-one. I do, I've been doing a lot more one-on-ones lately.
• 42:36
  Because people are starting to get into the groove of just putting their stuff out there and really talking themselves through it to say, I think I'm just making too much of this. I think I am putting this on me when it's not about me. I, yeah, that's so good. You caught me out of, I don't know.
• 42:58
  Yeah. So I don't want to call it therapy. I'm not licensed and I don't offer advice. I ask questions. No, I get it. So I have a dear friend that I call whenever I'm working. And right now I'm going through another change. And every time different levels, you meet different devils. And I'm, I get, I'm trying to get probably more than 1% better every day, but,
• 43:20
  let's just say at 1%. And at some point when you get to a certain level, it, you kind of go through a metamorphosis and, and, and I'm going through that again right now. And all of a sudden I'm really understanding to surrender everything and just let things be. And it's, it's just, I'm doing one for a walk this morning and I'm just, or I went for a walk last night with my dog and I just started crying. Cause I was so grateful that life is good. I knew you were coming. I just, it just, life is good.
• 43:49
  So I don't know where the heck I was going with that other than life is really, really good. And I had, oh, I know what's going on with my friend. So I'll call him and just start talking and say, don't say anything. I'm just going to say, and then I want your opinion. And then before he says anything, I go...
• 44:05
  I just figured it out by just hearing myself talk. And he laughs. And he's like, you do this all the time. And literally, just by calling and asking the question, I can hear myself answer. And then I answer it. And I'm like, oh, got it. Yes. So that's my version. I just recently got a mentor. And it's hard because I'm the hardest on myself.
• 44:27
  they say you're not supposed, but I just am. And you could never say or do anything to me that I don't already say and do to myself. So that's why I don't even pay attention when anybody thinks or says doesn't good or bad. So it's, uh, I have a mentor and he tries to hold me accountable and it's like, dude, it's done. As soon as I say it, consider it done. So every week he's like, did you do it? Come on, man. You know, it's just done. It's what we do. So what do you want your legacy to be?
• 44:56
  So this is on my website. And for me, it is about John Maxwell. The first book that I read of his, one of the things he said was, live your life the way you want your obituary to read.
• 45:11
  And I thought, wow. And a lot of people get touchy about that. They're like, oh, it's so morbid. It's not. I mean, for me, I stop and I think about, what do I want people to say about me when I'm gone? And I do what I do because I want to make my wife proud. I want to make my kids proud. And the writing has been something where I thought, you know, and you and I talked about this, I think, back in October when we met, is that I've got a lot of content already written. I want to leave that legacy so my kids can know who I am.
• 45:41
  You know, in my, my daughter, my 11 year old said this to me one day, do you know what your grandparents did? And I'm like, well, I know one of my grandfathers was a bus driver, but I knew, you know, the males in my family have all served in the army, but yeah.
• 45:58
  what am I leaving behind so that they know? Because my kid, one day I went to her school to do career day. And after that, she's like, huh, I never knew what you did. And I said, well, do you know what I do now? And she's like, no, not really. Logistics. I don't know. You know? And so through my writing, they're going to know who I am through my writing. That's where my legacy will be. And what I hope is that in the end, there will be an army of people who,
• 46:24
  who can come forward and tell stories about how I helped them and therefore they helped others.
• 46:30
  Yeah, you're doing your small apartment. I love it. Make sure that you go to John Doolin. It's spelled J O N D O O L E N on LinkedIn. He's got a huge following and it's it's fantastic. And I just I love what you're doing and I'm proud of you. And anything, you know, you know, now anything you need from me. Yeah, got it. What's I think I know the answer to this one. What is the most important decision you've made in your life?
• 46:57
  The most important decision that I've ever made in my life was going to that party. Yeah, I figured that's what it was. I was going to say it was that. And then this one's probably going to be the same thing, but let's try to find one. If you were offered a mulligan in life, what would you do over?
• 47:12
  And I know it's, let's, let's put the personal development answer of everything happens for you. But what, what is one thing? I knew that you were going to ask that question because I've watched every podcast you've done so far. And, you know, thank you, by the way, you know, you're the one it is.
• 47:30
  That is a hard thing to answer because I feel so blessed with where I am today. But I will tell you, there was an incident in high school where I was going to, we'll just call it a special school for kids that weren't that smart and got in a lot of trouble. And because of the school I was going to and the kids I was hanging around with, I was using language that I wouldn't be proud of.
• 47:58
  And the high school that I actually graduated from was in a very wealthy part of the community. And the majority of those kids were rich white kids. And we were sitting at the mall having lunch one day. And...
• 48:15
  I forgot where I was and I used some language that I wasn't proud of. And that has stuck with me to this day. And, um, I immediately got held accountable for that. Um, and not that anybody said, Oh, you shouldn't do that. But I immediately felt, why did I act like that? Why did I talk like that? That's not who I am. Like I was trying to fit into a mold and,
• 48:38
  And, um, you know, so that's probably the mulligan. That's the one thing that I, I really think it, that put me in a spot with someone who could have probably been a good friend of mine, but because I spoke the way I spoke, the language I used, that person shut me down and that's it. We're in deviant. Why did you do it?
• 49:00
  Validation? Trying to fit in? Yeah, it's a great question. Because what I said was aggressive, and it had no place in the conversation. Yeah, I think I was just trying to say the funniest thing at the table. So I've never said this because I always do the personal development answer, but it's in the book, I'll say it. I really wish I could take back my...
• 49:25
  My talking to my aunt at my 40th birthday party. That wasn't the smoothest thing. I was, oh my God, that is so embarrassing to this day. I will never forgive myself. I've forgiven myself and she forgives me and she loves me and she's very proud of the man I am. But that's one thing that I could go back and take back. Yeah.
• 49:45
  That's that everything else. My uncle, wouldn't you wish you stopped drinking sooner? Nope. No, wouldn't have been ready. Now I wouldn't be sitting here with you. I wouldn't have gone through everything. I wouldn't have, uh, it just, you know, it's the whole back to the future movie. Like what is the one thing? If you ask, like my big thing is it's noted that my parents, uh,
• 50:07
  Weren't around and they didn't show me love. If they would have showed me love, I probably wouldn't be standing here today because I wouldn't have been so aggressively with a chip on my shoulders, start a company to meet you, to be a customer of yours, and then to be here today to be harder than life. There would be no harder than life.
• 50:23
  So I would never change that because I'm here to help more people. And we've, it's well documented. This is for charity. We're going to write a big check at the end of the year. Still made $0, but we will, we will come in. I'm a closer finisher. I guess I'd say we're going to wrap it up. I'm sure you're ready for this one too, because you listened to it. Cause I just, this is one of my favorite questions. And I added this, John, if you could create one universal law, what would it be and why?
• 50:53
  So, um...
• 50:56
  Because I've listened to your podcast, I actually like somebody else's answer better than mine. And their answer was, for every new law, three have to go off. That was the last one. I love that one. But I'm a constitutionalist. I believe in the pure and unadulterated version of the Constitution of free rights, free speech, carry your weapons. And so for me, it would be, I would just like to simplify it and get back to the point where freedom means something.
• 51:25
  And you do you. And, but you know, for me, what freedom means is I can be me as long as it doesn't hurt you. You can do you as long as it doesn't hurt me. And, you know, a part of the beef I have, you know, words, you know, the mulligan would be take back some words that I didn't want to come out of my mouth. I don't want to in any way say that I support the, you know, the cancel culture and the, you know, that soft culture of people getting offended at other people's words.
• 51:53
  because that's a part of freedom of speech. You should be able to say what you want to say, but you also get to listen to what you want to listen to. But you have to shut it off. You have to have the ownership to say, you know what, that's not for me. I'm going to go somewhere else. John, what did you just say? What is that? What is the term that you just used? You've said it multiple times. Freedom of speech. Emotional intelligence. Oh, emotional intelligence. Okay, all right. It's discerning what matters and what doesn't. And that's what the world needs to understand. Unfortunately, some of this...
• 52:22
  and this is just my opinion, but some of this is just being relevant. Some people, Ooh, if I say this inflammatory thing, I get all these likes and I, and I, all of a sudden I matter and we've got to have the conversation with them that says you matter anyways. It's just your limiting beliefs. It's just something that's growing up in you that you think you don't because everybody matters. And when this is going to sound woo woo and God ish, but when you don't
• 52:52
  when you really don't and you don't have a purpose, the ultimate creator will, will, will, will take care of that. Yeah. And I'm not a religious guy, but I just believe it. I've seen, you've seen karma happen time and time and time again. So don't, don't treat people poorly, people, because ultimately it comes back to you.
• 53:10
  John, we're coming up against it. I don't know how this hour went by so fast. We could talk all day. And I will have you back because we're going to, I'm going to support you and help you more. We're going to build you up. And hopefully the Hunter in the Life podcast builds up and we'll do this again. But how can my people, how can the Seagulls support you?
• 53:28
  So you can find me on every social media platform except TikTok at getduelin. At getduelin. That's my tagline on every social media platform. Just reach out. LinkedIn is blown up, but I'm not a big fan of Facebook, but I went to Facebook because it is the number one platform right now. So the message has to get out. People just have to be better people. And it starts with all of us. We can change the world tomorrow if we choose to be a better human to other humans.
• 53:58
  absolutely i i want to uh you should just have your daughter do the uh tiktok for you we're on tiktok i've never been on it i don't even know what it is she does have a tiktok so i i will not lie i have a tiktok she's the only person i'm connected to but i have it so i can watch her to keep her safe yeah because i've got some friends in it and they tell me there's bad people out there
• 54:16
  There are, man. Don't ever Google like, uh, kidnapping and social media. It's, it's just horrible things going on. And I talked to my daughter all the time about, you know, be careful what you put out there. Um, so, and then just those of you that are coming after his daughter, he is a military guy that has lots of guns and he will shoot. So thank you for coming on. I love you. I'm honored. I'm so glad you're in my life. Um,
• 54:43
  And I want to remind everybody that each and every episode is sponsored by National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. And until next week, be harder than life. Thank you for listening. Please rate and subscribe to Harder Than Life. And let's take this to the next level. Get connected at the links below.