Latest / The Bow Disciples Podcast / Victory HLR is the best arrow EVER???

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Victory HLR is the best arrow EVER??? · The Bow Disciples Podcast

0:00
But we have a special guest today.
0:02
Let me start this off. Yeah, we got my boy Nate from
0:04
victory. Let's go, my guy for sure.
0:07
Now little bit of back story about me and Nate.
0:10
So I didn't even shoot for victory until this year.
0:12
This is my first year and it it's kind of crazy because being
0:17
like 2 locals, you know, Victory being local, me being local.
0:20
Are you? A San Diego like local local
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too. Or I'm originally from Wyoming.
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I got stationed out here back in 98.
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So you've been here? For so I mean, I guess, yeah,
0:29
I'm a transplant that is now considered local.
0:32
Yeah, OK. I'm not there yet.
0:34
I don't know if I ever wanted to be there yet.
0:35
I'm not there yet. I mean more so like the company
0:39
too, like Victory being local, me being local.
0:42
It was a match that that made sense.
0:45
You know what I'm saying? Bow Shop carries Victory.
0:47
So I'm a Bow Shop guy and that's kind of where our story starts
0:52
as you used to work at Bow Shop. When when I got out of the Navy
0:57
like 14 years ago, they had downsized and I was hanging out
1:01
down to the Bow and Arrow shop with Bruce all the time.
1:04
And he bought a couple bows. And after I got out, he's like,
1:07
what are you going to do? I'm like, well, I don't know.
1:09
I'm just hanging out right now, man.
1:11
I got some cash saved up and he's like, well, wanna wanna
1:14
hang out and like, work here. Yeah, cool.
1:17
And so Bruce. Why?
1:18
Why didn't I get that offer when I got out?
1:22
I think it's been Bruce to see me work on.
1:26
Yeah, she's still on the job, but so OK.
1:29
Yeah, yeah. But anyways, continue I just I.
1:32
So yeah, where I, I ended up, like in the actual industry, I
1:37
mean, I shot a bow from the time I was a little kid, but in the
1:39
industry, working in the industry, started the bow and
1:41
arrow shop in Lakeside. And then that's where I met your
1:46
dad and he used to come in and he'd always brag you up like you
1:51
were just a teenager at the time.
1:53
They were like riding dirt bikes and stuff like, yo, go check
1:55
this out or yeah, hunting trips and you go, hey, check, check
1:58
out James. And yeah.
1:59
So then I finally met you down there and you know like tuned
2:02
bows for you guys and did stuff like that and then ended up
2:05
getting a call from Victory and got a starting position there
2:09
and kind of just worked my way up in the company to QC manager
2:13
now. Well, and so that was almost 13
2:16
years ago. Yeah, yeah, cuz she was asking
2:19
like how long ago you worked at the Bow shop And I was like, has
2:23
to be 10 years at least. So I was close, but still not
2:26
quite. So yeah.
2:28
I mean, what a, what a how was that start, you know, working
2:31
from your entry point being in just a local pro shop to
2:35
actually be in more on the, I guess you would say
2:38
manufacturing or distribution level?
2:40
Like factoring side of it. What was that like?
2:42
Because that's a pretty big shift.
2:43
It was, but I, I felt like I was in a unique position because I
2:48
understood what was going on at the shop level and the
2:51
frustrations at the shop level. And so I could apply that to the
2:56
manufacturing side and try, and I mean, I started out as
3:00
technical sales customer support and I was doing a lot of, you
3:04
know, tech calls and you know, if there is any warranty issues
3:09
or shops having, you know, any issues with any product received
3:13
or anything like that. And so I thought I was in a
3:15
unique position because I was just coming out of a shop.
3:19
So I was still putting, you know, relating all of that to
3:22
the, you know, the manufacturing side.
3:25
And. It was definitely helpful
3:27
because sometimes when a shop calls and they get a
3:30
manufacturer, it's they don't know if somebody's worked in a
3:32
bow shop or you know, they don't, they don't know you from
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Adam and you know, he goes, Hey, I was actually just working in a
3:39
shop, you know, three months ago, so I understand your
3:41
frustration. Let me help you out.
3:44
And so it definitely helped that make started there.
3:46
Yeah, that makes I I do think that the shop has probably the
3:50
most one-on-one time with the consumer, you know what I mean?
3:54
So by working in a shop and then go into like, you know, a more
3:59
individualize, like whether it be a knot company or a bow
4:02
company or arrow company or broadheads, whatever.
4:05
That's such a good starting point because you really do have
4:08
a more of a connection with the shop owners who have probably
4:10
the tightest connection with the consumer.
4:13
So that's an awesome start. And then Victory, obviously, I
4:16
mean, nowadays got to be, you know, definitely a top 2 arrow
4:20
company. It's Easton and Victory.
4:22
I would say top. Two I think as.
4:24
Well, yeah, and again, I had shot gold temp a long time being
4:28
a bow shop guy. And one thing I really liked
4:31
about the gold temp like Hunters and the velocity pros was
4:34
there's very durable. Like those suckers were hard to
4:37
break, you know, Absolutely. Which I I like.
4:39
And I was always nervous to shoot a smaller diameter arrow
4:43
like the HLR for example, which I shoot now.
4:46
But my biggest concern was always that I was going to shoot
4:48
them. They were going to be real
4:49
brittle for some reason. Yeah.
4:51
And when I switched to the HLR I really have not had durability
4:56
issues. Like they are a durable arrow.
4:59
I'll shoot a. Weave on the outside of the
5:01
thing. Just as to that durability, I
5:02
mean that's a huge factor there. Yeah, and I think they're one of
5:06
my favorite parts too, about victory arrows.
5:08
And maybe you can go into this a little bit if it's a patent or
5:10
how y'all do it is. I think they're the most
5:12
aesthetic arrows because of the visual weave on the exterior of
5:17
the arrow. And no other arrow that I'm
5:19
aware of has that. So how is that a thing that
5:22
you're? A lot of people think that
5:24
that's a graphic great, like, oh, well, no, that's just
5:27
something that they quit on the outside of the arrow.
5:29
And once you explain to them how the arrows are are made, that
5:32
that weed is part of the carbon that it is prepared into that
5:36
arrow. And that's what adds to that
5:38
durability, allows that arrow to recover faster on shot.
5:41
Just because of, you know, you got your 90s and your uni's and
5:45
they could only do so much as far as react, you know, allowing
5:49
the the reaction to the arrow. But that weave the way it's
5:53
orientated, it allows that thing to recover so much faster on
5:56
shots. So you still have paradox of
5:58
arrow, but it just recovers faster, which translates to a
6:00
flatter shooting. Now it's not wasting energy
6:03
trying to recover down range. Which is cool because like I
6:07
said, not only is it super aesthetic in my opinion, but it
6:11
also is functional. So to me, I've had a great time
6:14
shooting victory and I mean since I've switched I've really
6:17
only shot the HLR other than in Africa when you help set me up
6:20
with the RIP TKO which was great as well.
6:24
A little more grain weight there for you.
6:26
Yeah, exactly. And the outfitter wanted me at
6:28
like 5515 grains. So we ended up getting there.
6:32
I was like right at 5:10, 5/15. It was just what they wanted.
6:35
I usually shoot about 5:00, 4/10, 4:20 to do.
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That for Africa, my arrow would go like 10 feet.
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I don't quite know. I will down the road.
6:47
We'll figure that one out. But.
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Well, luckily we're I think we're gonna get to.
6:50
That today a little bit are, yeah, it's we're going to look
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at some new options for you. Yeah, for sure.
6:55
Small people, small problems equal.
6:58
They're not small problems to me like.
7:00
No, absolutely not. We're a whole different category
7:04
of difficulty I think. Like it's not hard, it just
7:07
takes a little more time to combine all the right components
7:11
to figure out what works best. Like it's just the littlest of
7:18
things cuz like even like the, we did a shoot this past weekend
7:22
and you know, for anything under 20 James to just stick his 20
7:25
pin on it and it goes right there.
7:26
Cuz I suppose just going fast enough for me, I'm still having
7:29
to gauge like, OK, I need to still aim like an inch low
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because I'm going to hit high. And like anything between that
7:37
20 and 30 range for him makes like this much of a difference
7:40
for me, makes like this much of a difference.
7:43
So there's just like every little piece I have to take into
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account for to make sure that I'm getting the most efficiency
7:53
out of what I'm doing. Because if you don't, I mean,
7:56
anybody should be doing that, I think.
7:59
But you could get away with, you know, some things when you got a
8:04
faster bow and a heavier poundage and whatnot.
8:08
And me, I'm over here like I shoot a deer.
8:10
I should be happy. Like, yeah, I got a deer and I'm
8:13
like, man, that's not a lot of penetration.
8:17
That shouldn't be the first thing that crosses my mind.
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But it is because it goes into like, man, if I were to run that
8:22
weight in this setup for elk season, like that would not go
8:26
well. Or, you know, and I'm not a big
8:29
fan of switching arrows around. I know for certain animals, in
8:32
certain cases you need to, but you know, it's I'd like to find
8:37
something that I can run consistently across the board.
8:41
Yeah, yeah. And I don't even care about like
8:43
3D season, like I'll run the same thing for 3D season it.
8:47
We. Need to tune your bow to me?
8:48
Yeah. I mean, what do you, I mean,
8:50
still tune your bow, but you're not gonna have to adjust side
8:52
tapes or anything like that. If you run the same arrow all
8:55
year long for everything. You just we've got one set up.
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Yep. And for me, I think that helps
9:01
repeatable for anybody again, but like, it helps
9:04
repeatability. It helps, you know, like knowing
9:06
your equipment. James has never been a big fan
9:09
of like, switching his air outs per season or whatnot.
9:14
Like my sister does it all the time.
9:16
And, you know, she's fast at it and she loves it.
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And she builds her stuff out to make sure this bows tune for,
9:22
you know, a 290 grain arrow and blah, blah, blah.
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I'm like, Nah, I'm out on that. So yeah, I got to figure out,
9:32
you know, what's going to work, what's going to work.
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So right now you're shooting the VAP 450.
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Yeah, VAP 450, which is actually good old MFJJ, was the one who
9:46
kind of I think pushed her into that arrow a little bit, he
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said. This one right here I think
9:51
would be a pretty good fit, but. Second, I had the Vaps before,
9:56
but it was the five hundreds. I didn't know that a 450 existed
10:02
and I went to the bow shop. They did happen to have them
10:05
there. It was an older box though.
10:07
So it's actually an outsert that I think you guys don't even make
10:10
any more. It's a 35 grain outsert.
10:13
So that was the original version of the Shock Outsert that we
10:17
designed and that was before we went to the which they held up
10:20
good. But the the post on it wasn't
10:25
very long. And so some people had issues
10:29
with them. There could be bending issues or
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anything like that. And then when we designed that
10:34
new shock TL, two piece that's pressed together that you put
10:37
that thing on a concentricity gauge just like plus or minus
10:40
half a thou 'cause you know, everybody not like, OK, you make
10:44
a great arrow. But if you have a, a garbage
10:47
component, it does nothing for that great arrow.
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And so it was one of those we, you know, looked at that and
10:54
like, you know what this is, it works OK.
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But we can, we can absolutely do better.
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And so that's when we designed the new shock TL, which that's
11:02
what comes with them now. But so like you're 450, you're
11:05
at 6.6 grain per inch right now on that.
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But if you went into a, let's just say a RIP XV, right, and a
11:16
400 spine, which is going to allow you to run a little bit
11:19
more insert wave, right? Not to be scared of.
11:22
That right, So the two O 4 diameter will be the same
11:24
diameter James is shooting, but it's going to allow you to have
11:28
a lot higher FOC and that's only 5.9 grains per inch at a 400
11:34
spine. So that's an option or back to
11:38
the VAT in a 400 spine, 7.2 grains per inch.
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Run ahead of your insert the shock TL, you know 75 or 95 and
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you're going to get a lot more penetration.
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You were talking about Wanda you were working on want some more
11:53
penetration. Think about the old school guys
11:58
re curves, right? They weren't shooting 350 feet
12:01
per second. You know, they shooting a stick
12:06
and string and they weighed up that front of that arrow and
12:10
they killed everything. Yep.
12:11
Yeah, it's so true. I mean, even back, you know,
12:16
when I was like, I don't know, 10 or 12 or whatever tiny I did,
12:21
I was a late bloomer, you know what I mean?
12:23
So, but like when I would be shooting stuff with my PSE
12:27
Spider, yeah, I shot a bull elk in 2006 with my PSE Spider.
12:31
I was super small and I had a pass through on that sucker.
12:34
And let me tell you that that that arrow wasn't 600 grains.
12:39
I can tell you that right now. I don't know what it was, but I
12:41
had a frigging muzzy tip with the screw on little caps that
12:44
they used to have. Classic broad head, by the way.
12:48
And to your point, I think, I think sometimes people get in
12:52
the weeds about it a little bit too much, but I think that arrow
12:56
setup sounds really good for Brianna.
12:58
I don't. Know I don't think it's in the
13:00
weeds per SE because like like legit if I pass through an
13:03
animal anytime this over this next 12 months I would actually
13:08
shit myself like I'd pull you and I would shit myself like
13:12
make. Sure.
13:12
You wear your brown pants? Yeah.
13:14
I'm in brown pants. Maybe some bimbers on like
13:16
nobody will know but because that is never happened.
13:20
I mean, like I've come through and touched the other side, but
13:23
like, I don't know, other than like maybe a Turkey, I'm never
13:26
broken through the other side of an animal.
13:29
And at 50 lbs, like you know how many people?
13:32
And is it just my 25 inch Midget draw?
13:35
Like I don't know if we can say that word, but my short person
13:39
draw like at 50 lbs, it's not like low, low poundage for the
13:44
average woman in the world. So why can't I make it through
13:47
an animal then? So let's try 6 pack of the VAT,
13:51
4 hundreds with a heavier answer and a six pack of the RIP X VS
13:55
with the heavier insert. With the heavier insert, I run a
14:00
125 grain right now in the front.
14:03
Would I still keep that extra 25 grains with the heavier insert
14:06
or would I swap to the 100 grain?
14:10
Should I either, I mean, put the, the heavier insert on, see
14:14
what it does through paper, you know, put the 125, you know, see
14:17
what it indicates through paper and or just, I mean, shoot down
14:22
range and see what you walk. You know, I mean, shoot your
14:25
target and see which way that tail of that arrow is sticking.
14:27
And then you OK. Yep, I'm showing, showing weak.
14:32
So take 25 grains off of that thing, stiffen it back up or,
14:37
you know, I'm showing stiff. So I need to add a little more
14:38
weight. Yeah.
14:39
But I mean, you, you guys, you're like you said, we're
14:43
local. We've got some options and let
14:45
them let's play. Yeah.
14:47
I think that's important too is yeah, grab a bunch of options,
14:50
see which ones fly best, kind of have maybe a target weight
14:53
you're looking for. You know, on your elk you had
14:55
360 something that worked pretty well with the, you know, the
14:58
setup you had. So maybe kind of aim for that
15:00
same weight range, like 350 ish. Give it a try.
15:04
Like you said, just kind of mess around and see what you come up
15:07
with. But what arrow do you shoot?
15:11
Right now I'm shooting the HLRS, Yeah, but I've got kind of a
15:14
different setup in your running. OK, I brought something.
15:19
Let me see if I can. I got too much stuff in my
15:20
pockets here. Yeah, it does.
15:24
I got. A where we got here.
15:27
OK, so that right there is the insert you're running with your
15:33
HLRS. This right here is a new insert
15:39
we designed, put together and. Oof.
15:43
So. It's longer.
15:44
It is. By a lot, that is.
15:46
Centimeter, that is. Titanium.
15:48
Oh, shoot. OK, Yeah.
15:50
Everyone's entering the titanium.
15:52
Oh yeah, so now I can run the titanium beast with the titanium
15:56
insert? That thing, you know what I'm
15:57
saying? I mean I I haven't had any
15:59
problems with this as of. Yet, yeah.
16:02
But that right there, that thing's AI mean it does not bend
16:07
concrete wall steel. Play Wow and you know I'm a
16:10
durability guy. Oh, 100%.
16:12
Especially out West because like, you know, aside from maybe
16:17
hitting a tree out east, like if you Shank one out here, like the
16:24
likelihood is you're hitting a rock or you're hitting a rock
16:27
under the sand that you didn't know was under the sand.
16:30
And so you think you're safe. You know, like, oh, this looks
16:33
like soft ground. Turns out there's about 1000
16:36
rocks under new ball. Oh yeah.
16:37
Oh, a yard sale or you're like you.
16:39
Do like Bruce and I used to do and go up on Mount Laguna and go
16:42
shoot ground squirrels all after.
16:43
Oh yeah, that's a way to test. And all of it, you know, it's, I
16:46
mean, you even when you hit one, you're still hitting dirt and
16:50
rock and yeah, or, or the one that's sitting on the rock and
16:54
he's like, I bet you $20 you can't hit that.
16:57
It's 990 yards. Boom.
17:01
Yeah, that sucks. Yeah.
17:03
You love when you save them. So are those.
17:05
Can you get those inserts right now?
17:07
Are those out? Yeah.
17:08
They're coming. That's going to be for 26. 26
17:10
There you go. So we, we do have them coming
17:13
and they'll be for, I mean HLR. We're making the, the three
17:18
primary sizes for the HLR, the 250 through the 500 on that
17:22
sweet, which fits some of the other stuff.
17:25
We're going to see how they do. And if they do like we think
17:29
they're going to do, then we'll expand the sizes to to fit the
17:32
rest of our 204 line. Yeah, yeah, dude.
17:35
I I didn't think we get in the weeds as much about arrows so
17:38
fast. People love this, you know, like
17:41
the they. Do people love Arrow?
17:43
Or bag of fun. But people are die hard over
17:47
arrow videos, arrow builds, arrow reviews, any component to
17:51
an arrow like all the techie stuff that it comes with.
17:53
I know James doesn't love the in the weeds about it, but people
17:56
just love and I think. I do love it, I just don't do 40
17:59
videos a year about it. There's a couple guys.
18:01
That I'm possibly getting in trouble at work for not shooting
18:05
more content as far as like our Tech Tuesday videos that I do.
18:12
This year's been super busy. I haven't really had a chance.
18:16
I know that a lot of companies were slow this year.
18:20
Victory was not. I mean, at this point, I can't
18:23
even remember what my boat looks like and had a chest to shoot.
18:26
Yeah. So yeah, it's definitely been
18:29
busy for us. Well dude I mean the HLR has to
18:32
be like one of the highest selling arrows in years it seems
18:35
like. Yes, everyone's shooting.
18:37
It as fast as we can build in the.
18:39
I mean, we're shipping as fast as we can.
18:41
That's crazy. I mean, even if it doesn't have
18:45
all the packaging, you would just put a rubber band around
18:47
it. We need them, yeah.
18:48
Yeah, OK. Isn't that crazy?
18:50
On the way, dude. Yeah.
18:52
And it's kind of crazy that like the two big brands, like I said,
18:54
Easton came out with a very similar, you know, kind of their
18:57
version of the HR this year, the five mil, what I think it's just
19:00
called the five mil 5. O or the.
19:02
Five O that's what it is, Easton 5 O so, and I know that's
19:05
killing it for Easton too. So it's kind of funny that the
19:08
two big brands came out with a similar arrow, and they're both
19:10
absolutely moving. Has been going through them like
19:14
nobody's business. So what do you think it is
19:16
that's making those two arrows in particular so popular?
19:19
Is it just like a size that people have been really wanting?
19:21
Diameter, yeah, because I mean, it's not micro, it's not
19:25
standard. Is that right in the middle of
19:27
the road and you've got your guys that, you know, your die
19:30
hard standard diameter guys are finally catching on me.
19:34
Yeah. Oh, a little bit smaller, less
19:36
wind drift. Yeah, a little more penetration
19:39
to it, you know, you know, the componentry tapers back to the
19:42
shaft, so you got less friction moving through a target.
19:45
You know, it's and I mean, it's just I think the grain weight,
19:51
the overall weight of the arrow itself called kind of falls in
19:54
that spot where everybody was like everything was either too
19:57
heavy or too light. This is kind of the sweet spot.
20:01
Yeah, yeah. No, I'm not.
20:02
Like I said, I've been love and it's been performing super well
20:05
for me and I like the RIP TKO as well.
20:08
I mean, that arrow was very durable and I was blowing
20:13
through stuff in Africa a lot with that arrow.
20:17
Did you happen to see my Impala skull shot?
20:20
Dude that was wild. Is that not crazy?
20:23
So here's the crazy part about that clip is when I edit it and
20:27
I go frame by frame, my arrow actually would have connected
20:30
perfect right in the front of the chest.
20:32
But he ducked and turned just enough to catch that skull.
20:36
The arrow and the broadhead were just just fine, ready to go
20:39
again. Yeah, I mean, the arrow was
20:41
fine. Broadhead, The tip was bent just
20:44
slightly. Obviously the blades were
20:45
dulled, but it shut back up, ready to go.
20:47
And I'm like, that's what I look for.
20:49
Like hitting something so hard. You can't hit something harder
20:52
than a skull. Hardly.
20:53
And it was still. Like you did not go through the
20:56
eye socket, Like you went through the school.
20:59
Stickiest part of the school. Yeah, yeah.
21:01
So I mean that that was, I was so impressed.
21:04
And you actually set, you gave me another version too that I
21:09
didn't end up using. I think it was the RIP s s
21:11
maybe? Yeah, cuz you.
21:13
So what's the deal with those? So the RIP S S is similar to the
21:17
RIP TKO, but it's got our stainless steel mesh impregnated
21:23
with the carbon. And so it gets you into a hybrid
21:25
arrow. So you know, a lot of people
21:27
like a hybrid arrow the the carbon metal fusion.
21:32
And so the RIP s s is a hybrid arrow that does not take a set.
21:38
So say you take AI mean another manufacturer's hybrid arrow and
21:44
you flex that thing and you hold that for, you know, 10/20/30
21:49
seconds and you let it go and put it on a spin and it's going
21:52
to go. Oh, it'll bend.
21:54
Right. Yeah, Take ours, flex it, hold
21:57
it, put it on there. Really.
21:59
Yeah, it's just the way that the the mesh is designed and the way
22:03
it's it's laid up with the carbon, it's not going to take
22:06
that set. It's going to flex and recover.
22:09
So you don't have to worry about.
22:10
It blows my mind. Like the, you know, the engineer
22:14
that's in the background, you know, like we'll go out and you
22:17
talk about them and, and we, you know, talk about them on the the
22:21
Internet and whatnot. But like, we're just talking
22:24
about it. We're not the person who like
22:26
had this idea in their brain and then was able to actually put it
22:31
to paper and then put it to product.
22:33
Like that person's a genius. And in my eyes, like, I don't
22:36
understand how they figure this stuff out.
22:38
Just scientists. I don't know.
22:43
That's one of the things I love about Victory is yes, we have
22:46
engineers, but the arrow designs that we've come up with in the
22:51
last few years that are so popular are kind of a collective
22:56
group. We sit down in a weekly meeting
22:59
and say, OK, we we're playing with these, you know, arrows
23:03
right now. We need to think of a new arrow.
23:06
And so like we had the VAP started out with the Vap and
23:11
just the the V force and then the target lines way back in the
23:15
day. And then we tried A2O four
23:19
diameter and Jason and I actually were shooting the
23:21
prototype of the two O 4 diameter reading when I first
23:24
started with the company. And well, what's that?
23:27
You know, no labels, no, nothing on it.
23:29
It just blank shafts and everybody wanted it.
23:33
So we're like, OK, that's how the RIP came about.
23:35
And well, we got to do something new.
23:37
So we found the weave and made the TKO versions.
23:41
And so I'm doing all the testing and all that stuff.
23:43
Yep, holds up good, super durable.
23:46
I don't know why though, but this heavier spine arrow is
23:49
shooting the same spot as my lighter spine arrow and it
23:53
shouldn't be. And that's when we started doing
23:55
the slow MO video and realized that the weave allows the air to
23:59
recover faster, which. Keeps it flatter.
24:02
Absolutely, yeah. That's cool though, cuz like the
24:05
hunter, you know, the shooter is involved with the process.
24:09
Like I think about we watched a video yesterday on this Ford
24:13
Bronco EE bike E it's not an E bike though they call it an E
24:18
mountain bike. And you know, all the mountain
24:23
bikers got up in arms about this thing and this dude is testing
24:28
it and he's, you know, a proficient mountain biker.
24:31
And he's like, essentially, you could tell that this thing is
24:34
just made for like the Ford Bronco owner who wants a cute
24:39
bike on the back of his vehicle. Like somebody who rides mountain
24:42
bikes did not actually create this mountain bike.
24:46
Like the seat is non adjustable. The the torque.
24:49
It does not work like torque should work like the where the
24:53
just all the stuff about the bike does not actually scream.
24:56
This helps a mountain biker in any way, shape or form and was
24:59
not built by a mountain biker, but yet they call it an E
25:03
mountain bike. And so it's cool when the hunter
25:07
or the shooter can be involved in the process and even like
25:10
down to the idea portion of it because so many people like
25:14
James has this all the time with people who come up with, you
25:16
know, become good idea fairies or whatever, Like some of them
25:19
are really good ideas. And it's just a matter of how
25:23
can we make that come a life? Put it to market.
25:27
A lot of times it's actually funny cuz our website is a big
25:30
part of what we do, Merch, some archery products, our archery
25:34
games. And a lot of times I'll have
25:38
people like pitch an idea and I know it's a good one when I hear
25:43
multiple people tell me the same thing and then I go, OK, maybe
25:46
that's one that I should like. Invest in doing.
25:48
They don't know each other. Exactly, exactly.
25:51
That's when I take it seriously go OK, I need to invest the
25:53
money and maybe do that then if because that's obvious need to
25:56
your point of people that don't know each other but are in the
25:59
same space and maybe do different things in the space.
26:02
Something clearly people in the space.
26:03
Want right, right. So I think.
26:05
See A need for. Well, Easton 5 O Victory, HLR 2
26:10
completely different companies who do not work together came
26:15
out with similar arrows. So that just tells you right
26:17
there. I mean, what, you know, we got
26:19
to look at what the market wants and you know, everybody's
26:22
saying, hey, we should do this. Well, guess what, we need to do
26:25
something like that. Dude, what percentage of the
26:28
arrow sales would you say are like target arrows versus
26:32
hunting arrows? I would imagine hunting arrows
26:34
got to do like 90%. So in the US, yes, I mean,
26:40
major, you're probably 80% hunting, 20% target.
26:43
In the US, European, it's all target essentially really.
26:50
I mean there is some countries you're allowed to hunt, but not
26:52
many, but not many. And so that's why they have such
26:55
a huge target market. But I think hunting arrow sales,
27:04
I mean you still have like your Vegas shoot, but most of your 3D
27:07
stuff and not like with tack. Yeah.
27:10
Everybody's shooting their hunting setup almost year round
27:14
now, whereas before it was like during hunting season, you know,
27:18
prepping for hunting season you got your hunting setup and then
27:20
offseason you got your target set up.
27:22
But a lot more people are just shooting their hunt hunt rig
27:26
year round. Well, I think so many events
27:29
like TAC are now popping up that are not, they're not target
27:35
friendly. Like they're not target boat
27:37
friendly. It's not an ASA shoot that's 40
27:39
and under. Like you're looking at, you go
27:41
out to a course and your, your shortest 1 might be 45 out to
27:46
127. And like, you're not launching
27:49
your target Reg with your 8 power scope and your, you know,
27:53
lenses at 127 yards. So they're going out there with
27:57
their hunting setups. And I think it's cool because
28:01
something we always preach is like, you know, and we we argue
28:05
this a little bit on at the last pod that's not out yet, but you
28:08
know, East versus West Coast, like that bow may go under the
28:12
bed after archery month ends and then the shotgun and the rifle
28:17
come out and whatnot out here. There's so many more events that
28:20
are pushing you to keep your hunting rig out year round and
28:23
practice all those type of shots that like you could
28:26
realistically have on an animal out here.
28:29
Like I just took one on a black tail where for a lack of better
28:35
terms, like there was no visible portion of the body or vitals,
28:39
but I knew from tack at that distance I'm going to sail right
28:43
over that Bush. I knew I could see his head.
28:46
I knew about then where his, you know, leg and abdomen are going
28:49
to start. And I could take that shot
28:52
without doing events like tack and shooting your hunting rig
28:54
year round. Like you should not actually
28:58
take that shot if you haven't practiced it.
29:00
Yeah, and that's the thing too. I mean, that's why I think it's
29:02
so important to know. I always say learn the
29:04
trajectory of your bow because that shot, for example, I
29:08
believe was about 52 yards, if I remember, 54 yards, and that's
29:13
54. And you know that like two more
29:16
yards. But like, you know that because
29:21
you know your trajectory and you could see, like like you said,
29:24
you can see the outline note, you knew where to hold, but you
29:27
also knew that your arrow was going to perfectly arc in where
29:30
it needed to be because you knew your trajectory.
29:33
So to me, that's always super important because one.
29:35
Got a? Rainbow well in my in my archery
29:39
hunting. Life.
29:41
I mean, I've shot a lot of stuff where I couldn't clearly see
29:44
behind the shoulder. I have not like that was the
29:46
first true shot. I've launched an animal that was
29:49
not completely visible. Yeah, and then and which is
29:52
good, but when you're out there spotting, stalking, it's imagine
29:56
how many more options you can give yourself if you do know
29:59
your trajectory. And now you go, OK, he's at 35
30:02
and sure I can't see him, but I know for sure that that Bush is
30:05
the height of his back. I'm even at 35.
30:07
I'm going to dip right in over the Bush.
30:10
Just important to know. So I think shooting all the time
30:12
is really important and obviously trust in your
30:15
equipment. So it's dope to have good
30:18
arrows. I mean, the HLR is a freaking
30:20
thing. You're.
30:20
Switching your stuff. If you want to just just make
30:24
sure you know what everything does.
30:25
Like I think sometimes people set up for target and then like
30:30
they just run it through the paper and they make sure
30:33
everything looks good, but then they have no idea what the
30:36
trajectory of the arrow is going to be.
30:38
Like, you know what? What is my art going to look
30:41
like? Can I get through this window?
30:44
Because they set the bow up, but they've never actually shot it
30:47
enough so. Well, that, I mean, good on tact
30:52
right there. I mean, kudos to those guys for
30:54
setting up a course that mimics hunting scenarios.
30:58
You know, there's so many people that, oh, we've got a 3D course
31:01
set up and you go and shoot it and it's OK.
31:03
You've got your, you know, ram sitting there, you've got your
31:06
elk sitting there. But it's just OK.
31:09
Straight lane down to a wide open target like not even like a
31:12
portion of it is covered like the entire target is.
31:15
And I get it for like competitions, like I do
31:18
understand, but for fun shoots and whatnot like test people
31:23
make them figure out what does and doesn't work for their
31:26
setup. That's why I love the dinosaur
31:28
shot that's been at every single Boat Disciples challenge all
31:32
three years. It's the only shot we've brought
31:34
back all three years is this dinosaur shot.
31:36
And it really makes you learn your trajectory.
31:39
The tree that you gotta shoot under.
31:40
I mean, bro, there's gotta be 100 arrows in that sucker and
31:46
every year I can go up, Brianna can go up a small purse.
31:49
Anyone can hit it, but you got to just think about trajectory.
31:52
A lot of people don't they step up, smoke the tree.
31:54
And that's why I like even even our shoot is so cool because it
32:00
like we do mix in a ton of stuff that's going to make you learn
32:05
trajectory. Also, push your limits, make you
32:07
shoot far through a small hole, down, down or up a steep angle.
32:13
And yeah, sure, you're not going to shoot 115 yards hunting, but
32:18
if you can shoot 115 yards, now you go.
32:20
OK, now you know, I feel a lot more comfortable at 60.
32:23
Take a secondary shot or a secondary shot, Absolutely.
32:26
Yes, yeah. And I always say that's
32:27
something you should be ready to do.
32:28
Like if I were to shoot a deer at 45 yards, he'd run out to
32:32
120. Why wouldn't you try to get a
32:35
follow up? If you're proficient at that,
32:38
Ranger is no reason you should not take that.
32:40
Shot no, because more damage. My dad always taught me that as
32:42
a kid, he said. Dude, I don't care if you
32:44
pinwheel and perfect. If you have a chance to shoot
32:47
him again, shoot him again. That's what I was going to say
32:50
is you're like watching James over to what's his.
32:53
This was the third year upon at Arizona and over the first two
32:57
years like I wouldn't go on. I go on the stocks with now and
33:01
I filmed for him in the first couple of years.
33:04
I would just stay in glass. I think mostly you're just like
33:08
you learn. I don't want to mess this up
33:11
now. Now he thinks I'm decent enough
33:14
to follow along with him, but you would watch him through the
33:18
glass and like it didn't matter what the shot was like it's just
33:22
automatic that an air, a second arrow comes out of the quiver
33:25
and immediately reloads as he's watching the animal and where it
33:28
goes and what it's doing. Because in case he does need to
33:32
take it, like if he doesn't see it fall over and it stops, he's
33:35
already drawing back the bow and shooting again regardless. 100 I
33:38
just think that's responsible in a smart move because weird stuff
33:42
happens in hunting. I have had a couple of
33:44
instances, maybe you have as well, where I I've smoked stuff
33:48
like perfect shots literally on film and the animal like never
33:53
never died or just like didn't go down, didn't go down.
33:56
And it's like, bro, I know I hit him like what should be a double
34:00
lung heart and somehow I don't know what causes it, but
34:04
occasionally it just doesn't do the job.
34:06
Like I watched this one, the best example of it is this
34:10
episode of Bone Collector, years years old, where I think Waddell
34:13
shoots this buck. Whitetail couldn't be a better
34:17
shot. Like if you said, here's where I
34:19
want to hit it perfect. That's exactly where you hit it
34:21
with a big expandable broadhead. This deer runs off 30-40 minutes
34:27
later. It comes by T bones, blind
34:29
feeding, just chilling with dripping blood out of this hole.
34:33
T-bone shoots it again in the same spot and then it dies in 20
34:37
seconds. Wow.
34:37
But it's like, explain to me how he hit it there and it didn't
34:41
die. And I've seen that personally a
34:43
few times. So you could be tricked and go,
34:46
I don't need to shoot them again.
34:47
And boy, you'll regret it sometimes.
34:49
Yeah, that was always said the same thing.
34:51
Yeah. Shoot once.
34:52
Load another arrow. Watch where that animal goes.
34:54
Get another arrow in there. Get ready to shoot.
34:56
Again. Yeah, they're freaking perfect.
34:58
I mean even I mean gun hunting. Same thing.
35:01
You shoot, rack another round and follow your animal.
35:04
Yeah, same deal. Dude.
35:06
That's amazing. Do you ever do like the I'm
35:09
always so interested by people that go work booths like year
35:12
round, Like say, like my buddy Billy who works in the ultra
35:15
view booth and he's at every tack for like 15.
35:19
For what? What are you talking about?
35:20
You know Billy? Yeah.
35:22
Have you ever done that job where you go like hit a ton of
35:25
booths? So not a ton.
35:29
So this past year I went and did like indoor nationals, ran a
35:34
booth there. I was in the Netherlands.
35:38
So for the JBD Kings of Kings of Archery tournament, I'm actually
35:43
going back again this year. I was asked to go back this
35:46
year. So in November I'll be flying
35:48
into Amsterdam and then catching a train to the Netherlands.
35:52
Going to do. You need an influencer to go
35:54
with you to run the booth. Dude, if you want to.
35:55
Go. I'm more than welcome, bro.
35:58
I might be in. I may very well more than
36:00
welcome Yeah sure Brianna can stay home your.
36:04
Motherland that includes the home city of Amsterdam.
36:08
I love it. I love it.
36:09
I have been, but it's been a long time.
36:11
Yes. We.
36:11
So you let me know. Yeah.
36:15
And you know, we've got our our reps and our pro shooters and
36:19
stuff. That's who usually, you know,
36:21
runs a booth. I'm the guy to make sure
36:23
everybody has the booths to have everything displayed.
36:27
But I have not been the guy that does like every shoot and that
36:31
just sounds like a whole lot of travel and.
36:34
Oh dude, that that that's why I'm so intrigued by people that
36:37
do it cuz I'm like, dude, that's the I know how much we travel
36:40
and it's like a lot, but those guys, it's like always I.
36:44
Mean think about. It's always the.
36:45
Same thing, too. That's what makes it kind of
36:48
like, tough to me. We're always doing different.
36:50
Yeah. So it's like, you know, you're
36:52
getting some variety and some fun.
36:54
Whereas like when you're Billy doing all the booths, which is
36:57
cool and he's really good at it, but I'm like, dude, you at some
37:00
point by Stop 13, I'm so impressed you're still standing
37:06
there set up. Tear down drive, set up tear
37:09
just like man it's impressive. Oh.
37:11
Absolutely would be what's like miserable to me because some of
37:14
those are like 20 plus hour drives for them.
37:17
It's like you can't just hop on a plane, ship all your stuff out
37:21
and show up like you're driving all of that equipment, all of
37:24
your merch, like every single time.
37:28
Is he hauling a trailer or is he able to load it all on a truck?
37:31
OK, a trailer like suit. His trailer converts into their
37:36
like sales booth. Yep, kind.
37:37
Of like Lancasters. Yeah, Yeah, exactly.
37:39
Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, I always thought
37:43
that was crazy, but this is I I I am curious about this.
37:46
I don't know if you can really talk about it, but maybe you
37:48
can. Victory's owned by Mitsubishi.
37:51
Is that correct? Real.
37:52
So what's like the pros and cons of being owned by such a massive
37:57
company? It is a big company, absolutely.
38:00
And most of our well, all of our aero competitors are customers
38:06
of Mitsubishi, OK. And so it's, I mean the, the
38:12
amount of carbon that Mitsubishi sells is so extravagant.
38:18
I mean, it's just, I mean they sell so much carbon.
38:22
The cool thing about our position there, though, is we
38:26
get to play and come up with different carbon resin contents
38:31
and play, OK, you know what, I kind of like this material, but
38:35
let's add some more of this or less of this and come up with,
38:40
you know, unique recipes of, of carbon.
38:46
And that's what allows us to come out with the arrows that we
38:49
do is because we are owned by Mitsubishi.
38:51
We're vertically integrated in that we control our carbon from,
38:56
you know, the the fiber to the prepreg to the roll to how the
39:01
arrows met. I mean everything.
39:03
It's hard to finish. And so whereas other companies,
39:06
they can call up and say, hey, I need to order carbon.
39:09
I need something close to this. And they say, OK, yeah, we've
39:13
got this, this and this. Take your pick.
39:16
Yeah. So we we get to play.
39:19
Experimenting, yes. So basically that, I mean, it's
39:22
kind of the best of both worlds because you guys probably have
39:25
the budget and the capabilities to get these, you know, sort of
39:31
proprietary tough word, tough word builds and molds and
39:35
makeups of a product, but also the freedom that it sounds like
39:39
you have with the company. They're not like making sure you
39:42
don't do the XYZ. They're like, yo kind of go do
39:45
it, you know? So I imagine you're able to
39:47
build stuff and test stuff at the very least.
39:51
That maybe would be harder for some of the like competitor,
39:55
competitor brands, you know which I think so.
39:57
And we're kind of, I mean, we've always been known as a carbon
40:00
arrow experts, but we're kind of looking at some other, you know,
40:05
looking at kayak tubes. We're, we're in that market as
40:09
well, climbing sticks, building some climbing sticks for some
40:14
companies and stabilizer tubes. And you know, we, we've got a
40:20
anything that's a tube is made of carbon, we can build it.
40:23
That's sick. Yeah, that's awesome.
40:26
Now I have a I'm going to go back to my aero build for a
40:29
second. You should go back to your aero
40:31
build for a second. Yeah, now the OK.
40:37
I actually think this iced coffee is quite good.
40:39
On a side note, I really like it.
40:41
OK interesting. I might do another cup.
40:43
I'm going to be wired but. Just work through that.
40:46
So I'm trying. To do you not like it Really.
40:48
You bring up your point, I'm going to get a little refill.
40:50
OK, you do that. So I have always shot fixed
40:58
blades. OK, last year I ventured into
41:03
the world of expandables. You put a beast on the front of
41:06
that thing. Yeah, and I think and no, this
41:11
is not to the beast. This is just I don't think I did
41:15
enough testing before heading out and I on top of that, Jinx
41:23
myself said I'd never injured an animal, you know, like his.
41:26
James was having a rough year the year before that set myself
41:30
down a mental turmoil over the last year and switch back to a
41:35
fixed At what point in your arrow expertise can a person be
41:43
using a fix or an expandable expandable because I I'm still
41:48
we're going to do there's a broadhead test next week.
41:52
We're waiting for some Ballistics to come in.
41:54
Stuff is not cheap and I'm very interested to see how it
42:00
performs. We're only doing it with my
42:01
setup because this is like for a small person, what should you be
42:05
shooting? I don't personally think that I
42:10
should or could shoot an expandable.
42:12
You're kind of right at that precipice like that 50 to 55
42:18
right in there is kind of the, I mean cut on contacts at the
42:24
lower poundages. I mean, obviously it's going to
42:28
inflict more damage immediately, whereas, you know, the, the
42:32
lower poundage, it takes a lot of energy sometimes to open up
42:35
those blades. That's what I like.
42:37
My concern is you hit. Bone while you're doing that,
42:41
whereas you know somebody has a a higher poundage bow, if they
42:45
hit bone, that air is going to deflect a lot faster and still
42:48
allow those blades to open. But getting into a higher FOC, I
42:56
mean you guys getting Ballistics gel?
43:01
She it's all going to be her too.
43:03
So it's going to be, it's going to be a broad head test, but
43:07
only, well, you don't like my Brad from home, It's my Brad
43:11
from home improvement part. Now then I'm just let a
43:14
professional at least style like cut some layers in and whatnot.
43:18
I just. I love the mullet.
43:21
I think it's looking prime time to be honest with you, but that.
43:24
Just needs a little. But anyway, so she's OP, so
43:29
Brianna is, it's gonna be a broadhead arrow test, mostly
43:34
broadhead that is only for small pound, small poundage, small
43:38
draw. So I think that's pretty
43:39
interesting because there's plenty of ballistic gel
43:42
broadhead tests that you can go watch, but not too many that
43:46
I've seen or come across that are.
43:49
A billion views because I am that minority of shooters out
43:53
there, which is fine, but I think those people should still
43:56
be able to to see those. Out of information that they can
44:00
call? Absolutely no, I agree.
44:02
It's I think it's great that you're doing that because I
44:05
mean, like you just said, small percentage, There's not a lot of
44:08
people putting out content for that lighter pounded short
44:11
arrow. Everybody's like, okay, we're
44:13
shooting at 70 lbs Thirty inches or 65 lbs and 28 inches.
44:18
That's almost every single video out there.
44:22
We've even contemplated like in a year doing the bow reviews,
44:26
but doing them at his and doing them at mine because every bow
44:30
review comes out and they compare, you know, the numbers
44:33
that the bow company says to setting up essentially the same
44:37
setup, which is a 70 LB like 29 inch straw every single time.
44:41
And it's like, I get that's the majority of people out there, I
44:45
suppose, but like what about the rest of us short Cubans in the
44:49
world? So you think somewhere between
44:52
like that 5055 precipice and poundish, because that is my
44:58
it's nothing to the the piece of equipment itself, any
45:01
expandable, you know, whether it's beast rage, you know,
45:04
whatever it is. I for that penetration purpose,
45:09
I worry about the energy I immediately lose upon that
45:13
entrance and expansion of the blade.
45:16
Whereas a fix like the science just makes sense, like there's
45:21
nothing changing the energy other than the entrance itself.
45:28
After that, it just keeps going at that speed and you know,
45:32
slows down overtime. Whereas I think a lot of energy
45:36
is lost in that expansion. And then you add the penetration
45:40
on top of it, then add if you hit a bone like it just seems to
45:49
too too many variables in the in the kitchen for me to think that
45:54
even a semi low poundage they're OK to shoot.
46:00
I mean, look at the the length of the blades and stuff too
46:04
plays a factor. So if you have an expandable
46:05
with the shorter blades, it doesn't take quite as much
46:08
energy to fully expand that. But if you have an expandable
46:10
that's got long blades, it takes more energy but you get into a,
46:14
you know, a fixed blade cut on a contact.
46:17
One I played with recently was the the Iron Will.
46:21
That's popular. I really like that it's shot
46:23
great Annihilator there, the old school like there's a shotgun
46:27
slug hole, you know, those are fun to shoot as well.
46:32
But yeah, I mean there's some great options and I mean it when
46:37
you guys are doing the ballistic stuff.
46:39
If you need any help or anything like that, I mean I've got like
46:42
three blocks sitting at the warehouse right now that I.
46:45
Wish I had done that before I went to.
46:46
That's what I was looking to. Say that stuff I tell you what
46:49
is not not cheap for the amount you get and they come in small.
46:54
Either you got to make it yourself or they come in fairly
46:57
small blocks. Like I ordered 2 just to be safe
47:00
if. You guys, once you when you're
47:02
done, if you, I've got the the cooker, I've got the mold.
47:06
So once you're done shooting it, if you want to remold it, yeah,
47:10
just bring bring it up to the office and we'll throw it in the
47:13
the cooker and then just pour it in the mold and reuse it.
47:17
Yeah, we could do that tomorrow when we go up because we're
47:19
going to be filming some content for the Victory YouTube channel
47:23
and Facebook. Is that where you put it?
47:25
Facebook. YouTube.
47:25
Or like our Instagram, Facebook. Yeah.
47:28
Cool. Yeah, No, we're.
47:30
Not telling my arrow we have. To Oh, we're still.
47:32
The arrow as well. OK, go ahead.
47:34
Yeah, I didn't know if you had more to say.
47:37
No, I was going to switch topics but go.
47:39
Ahead. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
47:42
I'm really focused on these arrows here.
47:45
So you feel safe if I went to a 400 spine OK, that makes me feel
47:49
better because I have never contemplated that a single time
47:52
like going to 450 gave me somewhat of a heart attack.
47:57
Now the back end you guys put they can either come plain shaft
48:03
or they come fletched the vein, the flex right now the vein that
48:12
comes on them, is it a boning or boning like?
48:16
So it's AHP style. Blazer like.
48:18
Yeah, it's HP style, but the the vein I'm really liking right now
48:23
is the AAE Hybrid 26. OK.
48:28
And there was actually, I can't remember where it was, somebody
48:32
did some testing on just arrows, right?
48:36
Not like one company over another and look, breaking down
48:39
veins and everything. And that hybrid 26 was one of
48:42
the higher rated things on the market right now.
48:45
Phenomena as far as decibels, it's not very loud.
48:50
You don't need primer or anything.
48:51
You just throw some glue on that thing, stick it on there.
48:54
And I really like the guidance and how well that vein performs.
49:00
A. A You did a great job when they
49:02
made that vein. What's your feeling on the on
49:05
wraps on arrows? So.
49:10
I love asking every, every time we have a pod now someone's
49:13
involved in Arrows are Hunting, I'm asking this question.
49:16
I mean. They can definitely make the
49:19
back of your arrow look pretty. I don't think that adding the
49:24
weight of a wrap is worth it, that's just my opinion.
49:30
I like everybody's answers, you know.
49:32
You know it's. One way or the other.
49:34
I build a lot of arrows for a lot of people in the industry
49:37
and you know, a lot of people, they want wraps on their arrows,
49:41
which when it comes to reflexing and stuff like that, I mean,
49:44
wraps do kind of make it easy, but the more stuff you add, the
49:50
more stuff can go wrong. Yeah.
49:54
If you have a bad batch of wraps, adhesive fails, you know,
50:00
something like that or I just, for me, I just, I, I flex the
50:05
carbon and when I'm ready to reflex, I'll cut off the main
50:09
part of the vein, pull the knockout and set that thing in
50:12
acetone and it just eats away everything.
50:16
Doesn't hurt the arrow at all. And I mean, you got to be
50:20
careful when you do it so it doesn't go up into the ice
50:22
coating because the isotone will start to eat the ice coating.
50:26
On the ice coating, is that the thing that the coating that
50:29
means the like labeling and everything?
50:32
Well, no, it's our nano ceramic coating that we put on every
50:35
arrow. OK?
50:37
And so it's 2 words, right? Got that word of the day, toilet
50:40
paper. I'm doing good.
50:43
OK, so it's a nano ceramic coating that goes on our arrows
50:47
and allows that arrow to pull a lot easier out of the target
50:50
should you ever notice? Does that stop at a certain
50:53
point? The last like 6 to 8 inches
50:56
depending on what arrow it is. For me, that's 2/3 of my arrows.
51:02
They're pretty close to cross bold arrows at this point.
51:06
OK, so let's go even further back to the knock feelings on
51:13
lit knocks versus standard knocks on arrows.
51:17
Are going to shoot lighted knocks to make sure that you
51:21
have enough lighted knocks that you can practice all year long
51:23
and you're not changing the knock right before hunting
51:26
season. So don't do it before I leave in
51:28
two weeks. No, I mean, if you do, make sure
51:31
that you've got some, you know, I.
51:32
Really made. Sure.
51:34
Yeah, practice lighted knocks that are dead already that you
51:37
can just shoot on your regular arrows so it matches the exact
51:40
same grain weight. A lot of people, you know, they
51:44
shoot their standard knock and then they go, oh, I'm going to
51:47
shoot lighted knocks, not realizing that it can change the
51:51
the flight of that arrow because you are meaning going from six
51:55
or eight grains to 26 grains at the back of that arrow shaft.
51:58
Yeah, Now there are some really, I I've done a little tiny bit of
52:02
research. There are some pretty light ones
52:05
out there now, but the ones I ran last year for like 1 hunt,
52:13
they were a lot heavier and I didn't weigh them by themself.
52:16
But when I shot finally into a bag and checked like I was going
52:23
from, you know, in the bag to just barely missing, we're
52:28
talking like 9 inches and drop from and that was shooting.
52:32
Granted we were at like 40 or 50 yards.
52:35
So, you know, one my errors already, you know, drop in speed
52:39
and then I add that extra weight to the back.
52:41
It was drop in speed like nobody's business.
52:43
And so it was like at one point I missed the one point.
52:45
I like just scraping the bottom of the bag.
52:49
So I don't know if you have an opinion like just don't use them
52:52
or just ensure, which I think is the right answer here, like just
52:56
ensure that they're flying the same you're you're using them.
53:02
I, I always just tease people about the wraps thing because
53:04
Westerners like James like don't ever put a wrap on an arrow.
53:08
And to me it's like it's like 6 screens like matter.
53:14
I think, I think the main thing is I, and again, I'm not a
53:18
scientist of arrows, but I think weight in the back of the arrow
53:24
goes a lot further than weight in the front.
53:27
So like 6 grains might not sound like a lot, but because it's at
53:30
the back of the arrow. And if you couple that with say
53:32
like a four vein setup and now a lip knock, all that weight in
53:36
the back like yeah, out of proportion Lee affects the arrow
53:42
than if it's in the front. Is that right?
53:44
Yeah. You should be right.
53:46
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're adding all that in the
53:48
back, like are you compensating with more weight in the front
53:52
then to correct that FOC? If you're not, then you're
53:56
already messing up. Yes, you're I mean, you're just
53:58
you're the more weight you add to the back, the less FOC you're
54:01
going to have and you know, a lot of guys like to get into
54:04
that, like, you know, 13 to 16% FOC range and you start adding
54:10
this stuff and now you're I mean, it starts dropping, but it
54:14
definitely does affect the way the arrow flies.
54:16
So if you do put that stuff on, make sure you, you know, go
54:20
outside your Bowen know Jackie, how those things are going to
54:23
fly. Don't just like, OK, I had I was
54:25
shooting great, you know, at 50 yards with this setup and I'm
54:29
just going to re fletch and add wraps.
54:31
Well, it's going to change the way that arrow flies, and you
54:33
need to make sure that you go inside that thing and after you
54:35
get done changing anything, yeah.
54:38
What's your opinion on a Max FOC percentage?
54:43
Like at the high end, what would the maximum be to you in your
54:46
opinion? Does it depend on the person it
54:50
does on the arrow? It does depend on person, the
54:53
arrow what you're hunting for. I mean, you know that like I
54:59
said that 13 to kind of 16% right in there.
55:03
On a nice big 200 plus # mule deer.
55:05
Yeah, that kind of seems to be the sweet spot.
55:07
It's what we're looking for this year for me, right, James?
55:10
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
55:11
No more basket racks for V, no. Beef dinners only, baby.
55:16
Yeah, I've shot enough fork and fork and horns.
55:19
Now, you know, even out east, like I, I have one nice deer and
55:24
it's at my sister's house mounted because I haven't
55:27
shipped it out here. Outside of that, it's been even
55:30
back east. They were all just, you know,
55:33
spikes or little baskets. And then it seems to be all I
55:35
can get out here are little baskets and forks.
55:38
So I said this year, you know, if one comes in, Jane's going to
55:42
have to probably restrain me and put me in handcuffs from drawing
55:44
my bow because I'll probably just be like, it's good enough
55:47
and I'll just go and dry and shoot it.
55:49
But the, you know, my standard, I think minimum will be a three
55:53
by three this year. Move it up one more point on
55:57
each side. But that's why I'm so hell bent,
56:01
you could say, on this arrow being as good as it can possibly
56:05
because it's the only thing I've never not to say that I haven't
56:08
paid attention to it, but that I've not put any detail in.
56:13
Like I've put a ton into the bow, into the strings, into the
56:17
everything that goes on to there not near as much attention to
56:22
the arrow. And as I decide to try to have a
56:27
little more patience in the a deer that I choose to shoot.
56:30
So as you say, is that your choosing or like, you know, you
56:35
just see something? I want to shoot that one.
56:38
It's mostly that I have had this year or last January was the
56:43
year I had a chance at. Actually it was the first stock
56:48
I'd say I've ever gone on that was on a a very nice deer.
56:53
It was a what do you say? It was like probably 144 by 4.
56:58
And unfortunately I had the expandable on and just at 70
57:08
yards, he was quarter 2 and then takes a long time for my 50 LB
57:13
bow to go 70 yards. And that gave him the time to
57:16
turn toward me even more. And just instead of getting like
57:21
into the backside of the shoulder where I could have
57:23
deflected into vitals, I got the front side.
57:26
The hardest part of the shoulder probably went right into the the
57:28
bone and pocket and joint. And, and we just, we followed
57:34
him for miles and just kept stalking him, kept stalking him.
57:38
And he just wasn't, it wasn't lethal.
57:42
And so I'm like, no, if I can change anything, it's, you know,
57:48
upgrading every part, it's. Getting a pass through this
57:50
year. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:52
Anything. You know more than a Bunny.
57:54
Another pass through a Bunny that counts.
57:56
Another hunter did wind up getting that buck about two
57:59
weeks later, which is great. Yeah, too.
58:01
Was really funny, so we were able to see somebody who knew
58:04
him who had a picture. So it's nice to see that he, you
58:08
know, got put down, I guess. Well, the deer.
58:11
The deer was fine, I was gonna say.
58:13
I mean, a lot of people don't realize how.
58:14
Tough. Oh yeah.
58:15
Actually, gosh, yeah. Dude, they're so crazy tough.
58:18
So I mean, her shot was, you know, that was one of those
58:21
instances where, you know, a few inches different and that deer
58:25
is dead in seconds. It was so close to being a
58:27
perfect shot. Just wasn't.
58:28
And yeah, it's the way the cookie crumbles.
58:31
But I do have one, I think maybe the last question for over an
58:36
hour here and here. Here's my deal, right?
58:40
If someone wanted to like get a sponsorship from Victory, right?
58:46
What's like, what do you guys look for?
58:48
What should someone do to cause a lot of people probably are
58:51
curious about that and have a dream of one day getting a bow
58:54
sponsor or a broad arrow or whatever.
58:57
So from your perspective as a guy who works high up with a
59:00
brand like Victory, what do you look for as far as saying yes or
59:04
no to someone seeking a sponsorship?
59:08
Activity in the community as far as the Archer community goes,
59:14
what are they doing? Content creation, peer review is
59:22
a big one. It's I mean, you could sponsor
59:26
somebody, but if everybody thinks that that person is not
59:30
cool, then you know that kind of, you know, whoever you're
59:34
looking at sponsoring is going to represent your brand and you
59:37
want your brand represented in in the best light possible.
59:43
But it's one of those like you don't have to be winning every
59:47
tournament to get a sponsorship. If you're a good proponent of
59:52
the brand, people like you, you're involved with the
59:55
community, you're at multiple shoots, and you're a a good
59:59
voice for the brand and a great brand ambassador.
1:00:03
That's absolutely something we look at.
1:00:05
And I mean, we've got different levels.
1:00:07
I know that they're changing some of the levels this year as
1:00:11
far as the sponsorship stuff goes.
1:00:14
But yeah, it's the, I mean, put together a resume like, hey,
1:00:19
this is, you know, where I hunt, you know, stuff that I've done
1:00:22
in the past, the tournaments that I'm going to, you know,
1:00:26
here's my Instagram page. And I mean, we live in a content
1:00:30
creation world now. I mean, everything's about
1:00:32
content. And so include the that stuff on
1:00:37
an e-mail, send it to info@victoryarchery.com and then
1:00:40
we'll take a look at it and, you know, say, hey, you know what,
1:00:43
this person, you know, we've got kids is, you know, 7-8 year old
1:00:48
kids emailing us about stuff like that.
1:00:50
Oh, yeah. And some of these kids are
1:00:52
hammers. Oh, Hammers.
1:00:54
Jake's made some, well, we've met some like added these tacks
1:00:57
and whatnot that are just, I mean, they're 10 or less years
1:01:00
old and they're out there with full-fledged bows and like,
1:01:04
they're just little social butterflies.
1:01:07
That they have when they shoot, too.
1:01:09
Yeah. It's like you got to be kidding
1:01:11
me. Yep, it's just it blows my mind
1:01:14
because like 1 you can see like the Next up and Comer, like
1:01:18
YouTube or whatnot, but also the Next up and Comer like, you
1:01:21
know, page is a female, but like the the next our Bodie.
1:01:25
That would be I guess, a good example like the next Bodie or
1:01:27
whatever. And I think about how much
1:01:30
earlier these kids are going to be starting in their competition
1:01:33
worlds and their their social, you know, content creation
1:01:37
worlds. Then you know, people James and
1:01:40
I and your age have like, it's just it starts at such a young
1:01:44
age. They're just so much more
1:01:45
educated now because the amount of information is so much easier
1:01:50
to obtain. So you know what I mean?
1:01:52
That's when we were coming up. It was like word of mouth, or
1:01:55
you know, somebody you knew taught you stuff, or you know,
1:01:59
had to go to the library getting encyclopedia and look stuff up
1:02:03
there. Now with the Internet.
1:02:04
Pages existed dial up like and if somebody answered the phone,
1:02:08
well forget it, whatever you look.
1:02:11
At it's gone, you're done on the computer.
1:02:12
Yep, yeah. And now it's just like they just
1:02:15
whip their phone out and boom, like Instagram comes up and.
1:02:18
FOC calculation. Oh Yep, right there.
1:02:21
Yep, got it. Perfect arrow for this ChatGPT.
1:02:24
Yeah. Oh, dude, you know, it's like.
1:02:26
How kids right there won't work anymore?
1:02:28
I don't think they do. Like, oh, probably how schools
1:02:30
are going to start to come back that like you're going to have
1:02:32
to start like in college we had the little blue book, it was
1:02:35
called and you got that book and that's what you wrote your essay
1:02:39
in for your term paper or whatever.
1:02:41
Kids are going to have to start doing that because, like, if
1:02:43
they're allowed to go home and write their essay, guaranteed,
1:02:46
ChatGPT is right in that essay, no doubt about.
1:02:49
It I kind of got a hot take about this.
1:02:51
I think it's a little bit like when there used to be like math
1:02:53
homework and they'd be like, well, you can't use the whatever
1:02:57
they call it, the more fancy calculator.
1:02:59
Yeah, you can only use the basic one.
1:03:02
And then eventually it was like, OK, whatever.
1:03:04
That's. So I think we're going to have
1:03:06
to get to this point where it's like, rather than try to force
1:03:09
kids to not use ChatGPT and stuff like that to for their
1:03:13
education, you're going to have to more educate to that, you
1:03:18
know what I mean? That's like the new thing.
1:03:19
So it's like you can't just not adapt, doesn't matter.
1:03:24
I mean like it used to. My point is like you.
1:03:26
Just had to show your work. My point is like, what's the
1:03:28
point of learning the math in the traditional sense that we
1:03:31
did when you don't have to do that anymore?
1:03:34
So it's like you almost education, I think has such a
1:03:38
random tangent, but I think I think it has to change with
1:03:42
technology because what's the point of learning things the
1:03:45
exact same you did in 1950 when there's so many more tools in
1:03:49
2025. Wouldn't it make more sense to
1:03:51
educate to those tools essentially?
1:03:55
You know what I mean? How you pull up chat GP?
1:03:58
I guess I don't know how it works.
1:03:59
Look, I'm not a doctor or a educator, but I do think it's
1:04:03
kind of goofy to be like, well, we need kids to learn cursive
1:04:06
and write on these pages and do math without tools like it.
1:04:09
That seems goofy to me too. Well, I think it, you know,
1:04:12
become, it really is a random tangent, but like, right, I
1:04:15
don't know, with AI becoming so popular and ChatGPT and all
1:04:20
these things that can essentially solve it for you,
1:04:23
those jobs that required you to have that level of skill just
1:04:29
just are not going to anymore because they're going to have
1:04:32
like they're going to ask you, do you have the technology like
1:04:35
skills to fix this AI computer or whatever.
1:04:40
And then the AI is going to be doing the math and the surgery
1:04:45
and whatnot. Now are you going to have the,
1:04:47
the tech and mechanical skills to fix it?
1:04:49
Which is why I do think you see a lot of, what do you call them,
1:04:54
trade jobs popping back up and becoming more important, which I
1:04:58
think is fantastic because we got in a little period, I think
1:05:02
of time. I, I was in that, that portion
1:05:04
where like college was the big push, like are you going to
1:05:07
college? Are you going to university?
1:05:10
Nope. Military.
1:05:11
Yeah, I wish I'd done it right out the bat.
1:05:14
Did you say right out the bat? Right right off the bat and I
1:05:20
watch sports, but. But anyway, dude, yeah, freaking
1:05:25
killer time, Nate. Thank you bro.
1:05:27
Thank you man. And we'll see you.
1:05:29
Congratulations. We'll see you tomorrow, bro.
1:05:32
Yes. Can't wait.
1:05:33
And they're. Speaking out that arrow.
1:05:34
Yeah, we're going to do some Arrow stuff.
1:05:35
We're going to have additional content, probably a video from
1:05:38
the factory on our main channel, plus on Victory Social from the
1:05:43
headquarters. The headquarters office we will
1:05:47
be going is another trip. Yes, with that, Brianna will
1:05:49
stay home for that one. I'll bring a different filmer,
1:05:52
you know what I mean? So, yeah, but appreciate you
1:05:55
coming, dude. It's been a lot of fun.
1:05:57
Having me for. Sure, and I'm excited for
1:05:58
tomorrow. So check out victoryarchery.com
1:06:02
for all the good, you know, best arrows there are and the HLR
1:06:06
tried and true now baby right. So go get them and the new
1:06:09
titanium inserts coming soon. So thanks bro, we'll see you
1:06:12
tomorrow. Thanks brother.