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Trump Tariffs Spark Market Volatility · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the
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  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am
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  Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's get more on the market. How to
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  Speaker 2: manage all of this? At James Abatte's managing director and
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  Speaker 2: chief investment officer at Center Asset Management. I mean, here's
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  Speaker 2: my really dumb question, like do you sell and or
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  Speaker 2: is there a level to buy? Like, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: a more sophisticated question than that.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's a level. I mean, let's
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  Speaker 3: think about what markets are doing with us today. But
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  Speaker 3: let's look back at Friday. The selling on Friday, which
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  Speaker 3: just indiscriminate. We have the highest volume day ever on
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  Speaker 3: US trading. I mean ETF volume account for about forty
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  Speaker 3: percent of the volume, which in these there was a
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  Speaker 3: rush to either hedge or de lever positions. And I
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  Speaker 3: think one of the things that was telling to us
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  Speaker 3: is it even the safe havens like consumers, staples, healthcare, utilities,
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  Speaker 3: even domestic infrastructure stocks participated fully in the drawdout, and
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  Speaker 3: I told us that even for the short term, maybe
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  Speaker 3: we might see some stabilization or of vicious counter trendorality
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  Speaker 3: like we're seeing this morning. You know, the bottom line
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  Speaker 3: for us is this is a terrific opportunity, you know,
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  Speaker 3: for true active management, because we think we're on the
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  Speaker 3: cusp of a potential market leadership pivot. We've been in
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  Speaker 3: an environment for the last two years where it's been
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  Speaker 3: the mag seven being the only source of returns, leading
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  Speaker 3: to some extreme concentration. In fact, you know, we saw
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  Speaker 3: a lot of large cap core mutual funds have to
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  Speaker 3: change your investment policies to become non diversified funds because
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  Speaker 3: of the top heavy buyes of the benchmark. So going
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  Speaker 3: back to November, we came out very skeptical of the
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  Speaker 3: analog of just following the Trump trade playbook despite the
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  Speaker 3: post election rally, and stayed that way. But we've had
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  Speaker 3: a tremendous reset in prices. We've seen a rallying treasuries
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  Speaker 3: that I think, you know, leads to opportunities in certain segments.
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  Speaker 4: Of the market, like the regional banks.
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  Speaker 3: You've got treasuries that have prepared the balance sheets fed cuts.
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  Speaker 3: We're the most bullsh on regional banks probably since nineteen
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  Speaker 3: ninety six. I don't want to date myself, because they're
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  Speaker 3: going to be growing and really be the leadership of
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  Speaker 3: the market, we think, because they'll be financing the industrial
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  Speaker 3: heartwain and build out. So our point of investors is
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  Speaker 3: now is the time to have a main street portfolio,
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  Speaker 3: not a Wall Street portfolio. And that's really a key
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  Speaker 3: thing for us.
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  Speaker 5: So what is I guess the constituents of that kind
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  Speaker 5: of portfolio, what are the themes driving it?
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  Speaker 3: The themes that would drive it are basically regional banks, utilities,
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  Speaker 3: other domestic infrastructure plays. I think the first thing to
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  Speaker 3: remember and why we were kind of bearish heading into
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  Speaker 3: this year, was that markets with price with perfection, you know,
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  Speaker 3: inequity risk premium that was essentially zero credit risk was
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  Speaker 3: essentially dismissing any potential of disruption for us.
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  Speaker 4: Deep Seat, the announcement of deep Seat.
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  Speaker 3: Was the first match that was thrown on an over
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  Speaker 3: valued mag seven driven market. The teriffs were kind of
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  Speaker 3: an accelerate. So I think the real key thing to
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  Speaker 3: look here for is on the other side of this trade,
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  Speaker 3: where we do get a rally. I would expect this
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  Speaker 3: to be in an environment where a mag seven does
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  Speaker 3: not lead the other side of the cell here, and
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  Speaker 3: I think that will be confirmation that a Main Street
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  Speaker 3: driven portfolio, not a Wall Street driven portfolio, will be
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  Speaker 3: the one to.
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  Speaker 4: Lead us out.
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  Speaker 2: Main Street has also and will be hit. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: as we were just talking about earlier with Morgan Stanley
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  Speaker 2: is downgrading all the banks. Yes, the ones with the
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  Speaker 2: capital market exposure get hit first, but the mid size banks,
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  Speaker 2: the regional banks, they're not going to be spared either.
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  Speaker 4: Well, we'll think about that or how much of that
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  Speaker 4: has already reflected.
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  Speaker 3: Many of these regional banks, whether it's key regions, they're
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  Speaker 3: trading it less than book value. Many of them have
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  Speaker 3: seen an inflection and the return on equity. But most
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  Speaker 3: of the pain in the regional banks occurred when we
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  Speaker 3: had the sell off driven by the failure of Silicon
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  Speaker 3: Valley Bank and some.
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  Speaker 4: Of the others. They have not yet been in the
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  Speaker 4: growth mode.
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  Speaker 3: Clearly, there could be some credit issues on the lower
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  Speaker 3: end of the consumer, but the concentration of commercial real
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  Speaker 3: estate problems is really dominated in the money center bank.
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  Speaker 3: So as we would avoid the money centers and really
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  Speaker 3: for the first time have an opportunity further down on
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  Speaker 3: the capitalization spectrum with the regional banks.
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  Speaker 5: So what's the how do you price in this environment
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  Speaker 5: where now, James, do you think it's something that is
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  Speaker 5: going to be a longer term issue for this economy?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think when we saw President Trump announced potentially
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  Speaker 3: that there'll be a stay on most tariffs except for China.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, China is the primary target and going to
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  Speaker 3: be the biggest loser. I mean the fact that the
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  Speaker 3: market sold off on their retaliation to the US on
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  Speaker 3: Friday is kind of, in a fundamental sense immaterial.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, our biggest exports of.
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  Speaker 3: China are soybeans, coal, almonds and other things. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: the US owns the asset that China and everybody needs.
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  Speaker 3: The US consumer market the key theater.
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  Speaker 4: And remember with all of this is.
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  Speaker 3: That you know it's we should stay away from blaming China.
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  Speaker 3: It was the US multinational companies that closed down US
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  Speaker 3: production facilities to gain access to cheaper labor and loose
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  Speaker 3: environmental concerns, and now they're the ones that have to
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  Speaker 3: reap the negative consequences of those technology transfers.
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  Speaker 4: As well as the intellectual.
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  Speaker 5: Property teams that the proper allocation of capital. Why produce something,
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  Speaker 5: don't you want to produce it in the lowest cost
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  Speaker 5: environment to pass on the cost savings to US consumers
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  Speaker 5: through lower prices and lower inflation.
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  Speaker 4: Sure, would you.
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  Speaker 3: Rather be unemployed and have access to a seventy nine
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  Speaker 3: dollars flore having jobs?
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  Speaker 5: Unemployee? We've got apployment, James, James, we've got full employment here.
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  Speaker 5: Who's unemployed?
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's it's the quality of the jobs. It's terming
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  Speaker 3: about the competitive edge that you can have as a country.
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  Speaker 3: There are security concerns, I think when you look back.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, so it's not economic, it's security.
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  Speaker 4: It's both.
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  Speaker 3: Actually, you have to have national security issues. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: let's forget that, Chuck Schumer back.
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  Speaker 5: Into the fact that we widgets are being made in China.
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  Speaker 5: That's a security concern to you.
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  Speaker 4: That's not where Trump is going after. He wants the
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  Speaker 4: high value out of things like automrkety is going out.
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  Speaker 3: Technology, pharmaceuticals. That's where he's trying to gear it up, toys,
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  Speaker 3: other things.
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  Speaker 4: Those are not really on the radar.
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  Speaker 5: Pharmaceutical companies are in New Jersey, James, Thanks for journey
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  Speaker 5: Appreciate it. James About, the managing director and chief investment
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  Speaker 5: officer of Center Asset Management, Appreciate it.
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
• 6:53
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• 6:59
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  Speaker 2: All right, let's go to the autos because they ain't
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  Speaker 2: getting any love you got. GM stock is down by
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  Speaker 2: about another three point seven percent. Kevin Tynan is director
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  Speaker 2: of research at the Presidio Group A joining us to
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  Speaker 2: discuss all things auto. Kevin, I mean, how bad can
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  Speaker 2: it get for these guys? Like, where's the low here
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  Speaker 2: in these in the stocks?
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  Speaker 5: You know?
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  Speaker 6: The interesting thing, Alex is that if this is, if
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  Speaker 6: tariffs are a supply constraint for the auto industry, for
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  Speaker 6: the US auto industry going forward, the last time we
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  Speaker 6: had a supply constraint, from twenty twenty to twenty twenty
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  Speaker 6: three was actually the most profitable time for the dealer
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  Speaker 6: groups and for manufacturers. So it kind of puts supply
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  Speaker 6: and demand, or has the potential to put supply and
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  Speaker 6: demand back in balance and or utilize more of the
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  Speaker 6: domestic capacity. And this actually could be a good thing
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  Speaker 6: because we're not oversupplied with this narrow margin environment that
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  Speaker 6: this industry has struggled with for decades. So it's kind
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  Speaker 6: of interesting that it looks like an opportunity because you're
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  Speaker 6: talking about tightening up pricing or firming up pricing and
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  Speaker 6: expanding margins going forward.
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  Speaker 2: Guys jump in on that for one second. Yeah, but
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  Speaker 2: then we've heard like you have Ford, I think Volkswagen
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  Speaker 2: also like Volkswagen's laying off some workers in the US,
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  Speaker 2: Ford is now discounting their cars or to get people
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  Speaker 2: in the lot. That feels really different from twenty twenty.
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  Speaker 4: Well, the difference is it effects.
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  Speaker 6: Where twenty twenty was supply chain disruption across the board, right,
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  Speaker 6: almost everybody was impacted the same. Because the supply chain
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  Speaker 6: is common through a lot of automakers. This is very
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  Speaker 6: different depending on what your production footprint looks like. So
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  Speaker 6: for those right, for example, if you look at US
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  Speaker 6: automotive factories in the fourth quarter, utilization was sixty five percent,
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  Speaker 6: right where you're really looking for eighty eighty plus to be,
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  Speaker 6: you know, utilization for your auto factories in this country.
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  Speaker 6: So the idea is that you're going to have manufacturers
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  Speaker 6: that don't have enough capacity here to ramp up and
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  Speaker 6: are going to be penalized by that. And then you
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  Speaker 6: have the ability for manufacturers who do have capacity here
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  Speaker 6: that is being underutilized to ramp up output output to
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  Speaker 6: make up some of that difference or those lost units.
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  Speaker 6: The way I look at it as this right, sixteen
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  Speaker 6: million units were sold in the US in twenty twenty four,
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  Speaker 6: about eleven million were produced here. So if you think
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  Speaker 6: about five million units in play, whether they get built
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  Speaker 6: or not built, there's the opportunity for domestic capacity to
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  Speaker 6: absorb some of those five million units. And when you
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  Speaker 6: think about it, twenty twenty two, which was the most
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  Speaker 6: profitable year for manufacturers and dealers, was only a thirteen
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  Speaker 6: point eight million unit market, So this can be profitable
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  Speaker 6: for manufacturers on smaller volume. And I think the headline
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  Speaker 6: is this takes units out overall and that all sales
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  Speaker 6: are good sales, which isn't necessarily true. This will improve
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  Speaker 6: the quality of sales because supplying the man will be
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  Speaker 6: in balance.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, that's what I thought too. That's why I'm very
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  Speaker 5: surprised that auto stocks have been trading down. Shouldn't this
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  Speaker 5: be the tariff environment? Should this not be good news?
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  Speaker 6: Eventually it should be right if that's if it goes
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  Speaker 6: according to plan, where now we're at eighty percent capacity
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  Speaker 6: for our automotive factories. The other thing too, and I
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  Speaker 6: think Paul the burden on the manufacturers because they have
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  Speaker 6: to right size or utilize more of that capacity. That
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  Speaker 6: lift is heavier for the manufacturing base than it is
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  Speaker 6: for the retailers. The retailers went through this process of
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  Speaker 6: supply constraint fewer units and have sort of rationalized their
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  Speaker 6: cost structure more recently than the manufacturers did. Right, They
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  Speaker 6: idled plants, but they really didn't take out that capacity.
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  Speaker 6: So I think there's a little bit more of a
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  Speaker 6: longer lead time to get that production where it needs
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  Speaker 6: to be. And that's a global issue, right. Automotive capacity
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  Speaker 6: globally is a problem and some of it needs to
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  Speaker 6: come out. So I think you're going to see a
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  Speaker 6: different impact on the manufacturing stocks versus the retailer stocks.
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  Speaker 6: And at the end of the day, the consumer ultimately
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  Speaker 6: just pays more for everything.
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  Speaker 2: That's such an interesting take. Let me add on one
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  Speaker 2: more layer. What about the steel and aluminum tariffs and
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  Speaker 2: pretty much tariffs. That's the input part. You mentioned that
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  Speaker 2: we could maybe absorb about those five million cars that
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  Speaker 2: were bought that weren't made in the US. What's the
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  Speaker 2: layer though on top of that when it comes to
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  Speaker 2: these derivative tariffs, and I.
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  Speaker 6: Think that's an impact on the supply base, right, You're
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  Speaker 6: going to have some suppliers smaller and depending again what
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  Speaker 6: your production footprint looks like, that are very much impacted.
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  Speaker 6: Where there may be one or few big contracts where
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  Speaker 6: margins are razor thin that this throws everything out of balance.
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  Speaker 6: But again, even if you think about that at the
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  Speaker 6: materials and the supplier tier two three going to be
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  Speaker 6: a problem at the end of the day, that's supply constraint,
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  Speaker 6: and as you move through the value chain, that impacts
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  Speaker 6: the manufacturers differently or the retailers differently. If you think
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  Speaker 6: about the US auto market going back, it's least profitable
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  Speaker 6: when there's the most inventory we're and it's the most
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  Speaker 6: profitable when there's the least inventory. So we're moving to
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  Speaker 6: this period where we're coming out of a rebuild of
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  Speaker 6: inventory back to dangerous levels, I would argue, and that
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  Speaker 6: gets right sized back to a two to one ratio
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  Speaker 6: inventory to sales, and it's actually a good thing longer term.
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  Speaker 6: There's going to be some pain right now in the uncertainty,
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  Speaker 6: but if it's according to plan, supply and demand come
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  Speaker 6: and balance and margins are just better.
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  Speaker 5: Kevin, we got about a minute left. Does this uncertainty
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  Speaker 5: in the auto business impact the changeover to EV's I'm
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  Speaker 5: not even sure where we are there, but is there
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  Speaker 5: an impact?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, and I think that was happening happening
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  Speaker 6: organically anyway. I think what's what this does, or this
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  Speaker 6: administration does, is it takes some of the demand levers
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  Speaker 6: out of there, which relieves some of the financial pressure
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  Speaker 6: on manufacturers to do a technology that has proven unprofitable.
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  Speaker 6: So I think you're starting to see that at state
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  Speaker 6: by state level. In terms of the California Air Resources
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  Speaker 6: Board waivers, Virginia didn't go for theirs. There's talk about
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  Speaker 6: every other state saying like, we can't go one hundred
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  Speaker 6: percent EV or battery electric and plug in harbrid by
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  Speaker 6: twenty thirty five, we're going to lose units to noncarved states.
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  Speaker 6: So I think you're starting to see that that pressure
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  Speaker 6: from government back off a little bit and let the
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  Speaker 6: market be a little bit more organic and grow that
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  Speaker 6: demand naturally.
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  Speaker 5: All right, Kevin, Kevin, great to talk with you, as always.
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  Speaker 5: Kevin Tyn and Director of Research at the Presidio Group,
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: joining us from New Jersey via zoom. Appreciate getting some
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: of his time.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live
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  Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Applecarplay and Android Auto
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• 14:24
  Speaker 1: get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: Think back to the election, to the turn of the calendar.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: You're into twenty twenty five animal spirits, and nowhere did
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: animal spirits run more rampant than on Global Wall Street.
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: Let's get some deal making. You're gonna have be easy money.
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: We're gonna have less regulation, we're gonna have pro business policies.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Capital market, it's gonna be wide open, yep.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: And let's go rip it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: A little bit different tone here today, particularly punctuated by
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: the letter from Jamie Diamond to his shareholders.
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: Here.
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: Stritenana Rogen joins us here a Bloomberg News He's a
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: senior financial reporter. Sree Times have changed, my friend, over
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: the last few months. What are your sources on Wall
• 15:01
  Speaker 5: Street saying about deal making IPOs? I see a big
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: loan got postponed today to fund the buyout.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: So what's happening?
• 15:10
  Speaker 7: And they're looking for dog walking appointments. I mean, look,
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: the sentiment is honestly captured by Isabel's story today, where
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: if you look at the big take we have out
• 15:17
  Speaker 7: on Bloomberg today, the Headlindal trays Wall Street is just
• 15:20
  Speaker 7: collateral damage in Trump's trade war. Both of you are
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: right five months ago, when after the election, the biggest
• 15:27
  Speaker 7: reaction in the markets came from these firms index to
• 15:30
  Speaker 7: Wall Street, Index to deal Making Index to Capital Markets,
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: who were certain that regulation was going to go down,
• 15:36
  Speaker 7: all the obstacles going to get out of their way,
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: and it was going to be boom time for their business.
• 15:41
  Speaker 7: The only problem was they were not taking President Donald
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: Trump seriously, or at least President elect Donald Trump or
• 15:47
  Speaker 7: the man who was campaigning to be president seriously when
• 15:52
  Speaker 7: on the campaign trail repeatedly he talked about his decades
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: long desire to change the global trade order. Tariffs are
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: not something that's an idea that's been injected in Trump's
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: head in the last week or two weeks or a
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: few weeks before that. He's been talking about that for
• 16:09
  Speaker 7: nearly forty years. The problem was Wall Street refused to
• 16:12
  Speaker 7: take that seriously. Now they're being forced to confront it,
• 16:16
  Speaker 7: and the reaction hasn't been great.
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  Speaker 2: And Jamie Diamond talked about in his letter right that
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  Speaker 2: there could be irreversible damage if it's not turned around
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: or change relatively quickly. What did that entail? What was
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  Speaker 2: that really speaking to and to.
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  Speaker 7: Me, it was interesting that Jamie said that again his
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: annual shareholder letters something that people look forward to, not
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: necessarily the Warren Buffett letter, but with his stature as
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: the elder statesman in the banking sector, every time Jamie
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  Speaker 7: Diamond has something to say, people pay attention. It's a
• 16:43
  Speaker 7: sixty page missive, so most of it was written weeks
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: and months in advance, but there was a lot of
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  Speaker 7: changes made in the last forty eight hours. And the
• 16:52
  Speaker 7: one that we're all drilling into is the is this
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  Speaker 7: commentary on Tariff's and he's clear that that the longer
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  Speaker 7: this goes on, the negative effects negative impact will be cumulative,
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: and that's what a lot of people have been talking
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: about even if you start trying to change course, you
• 17:07
  Speaker 7: try to negotiate those a commentary from a Goldman partner
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: over the weekend who said, it's really hard to put
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  Speaker 7: the toothpaste back in the tube once it's out. And
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: that's the concern for Waltreet. If you are taking away
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  Speaker 7: the critical ingredient that businesses need, that bankers need, that
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  Speaker 7: the economy needs, which is certainty that gives you confidence,
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  Speaker 7: then what hope do you have?
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: Did the big global investment banks just refresh my memory?
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: Do they provide earnings guidance?
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: Typically they generally tend to talk about what their quarter
• 17:37
  Speaker 7: is looking like. But the problem is when they start
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: reporting earnings starting Friday and through the middle of next week,
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: you will see that a lot of the numbers that
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: they forecast, a lot of the numbers they talked about,
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: which was especially relative to trading expectations and even deal
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: making expectations, they will match them, perhaps even beat them.
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: But nobody really cares anymore because we do not want
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: to know what they did between jan one and March thirty.
• 17:59
  Speaker 7: First one is paying attention to how badly they will
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: be hit going forward. Morgan Stanley's out with a note
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: today downgrading the entire banking sector and the breakdown there
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: is interesting. They talk about how someone like a Goldman Sachs,
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: you will see the immediate impact because the twitch reaction
• 18:16
  Speaker 7: in capital markets and deal making is just it's a snap,
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: you see it. It's evident with respect to slowing down
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: of loan growth and consumer books at banks or consumers
• 18:26
  Speaker 7: falling behind on their loans, that is still something that's
• 18:29
  Speaker 7: out in the future. And perhaps you know, if you're
• 18:32
  Speaker 7: able to somehow navigate through this tariff, whether it's a
• 18:36
  Speaker 7: negotiation or a negotiation, whether he goes away with with
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: sort of the worst case scenario or dials it back
• 18:41
  Speaker 7: a bit, that could have an impact on those things.
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: But where you're seeing the immediate impact just the fact
• 18:46
  Speaker 7: that it is hanging out there is deal making, is
• 18:49
  Speaker 7: capital markets, and when that is shut, banks and firms
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: that are indexed to that part of the business are
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: going to bear the brunt of it.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, but but but but just there's not a last
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Like ten minutes stocks have just turned around. Now you
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: have the S and p up say one and a
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: half percent. You got bonds selling off hard on that
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: back end, like kind of out of nowhere. Isn't that
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: volatility supposed to be good for banks?
• 19:12
  Speaker 7: It turned around is a strong word, because yes, if
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: you if you checked that, if you if you're checked
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: out Friday evening and came in Monday morning and you're
• 19:22
  Speaker 7: down one and a half percent, that's still bad news.
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: But yes, if your weekend ended at six pm Sunday
• 19:26
  Speaker 7: and you were watching Bloomberg surveillance last night and you
• 19:28
  Speaker 7: saw stock futures at down five percent, you started this
• 19:31
  Speaker 7: morning down four and a half percent, down one and
• 19:33
  Speaker 7: a half percent, is not that bad. But again, this
• 19:36
  Speaker 7: is this is not your volatility. This is not good volatility.
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: This is not even informed market reaction. At this point,
• 19:42
  Speaker 7: people are just trying to get how long can this last?
• 19:45
  Speaker 7: Will there be a flip? Donald Trump himself has come
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: out with tons of messages, including his excitement about meeting
• 19:51
  Speaker 7: the Dodgers at the White House this morning. So maybe
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: that's what's causing the positive market reaction.
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: We just don't know, right, We'll.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Stick with that.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: I think that might be the winning forecast there. Shread
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: Don Roger, and thanks so much for joining us giving
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: us the thoughts kind of how Wall Street's trying to
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: price in some of this uncertain to hear from the terrorist.
• 20:08
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