Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cherish Perrywinkle kidnap/murder: Mark Klaas speaks out

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Cherish Perrywinkle kidnap/murder: Mark Klaas speaks out · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: June two thousand thirteen, Chilled and one Robinson that Walmart,
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Speaker 1: and you can hear the fear and panic and rain
0:17
Speaker 1: Perry Winkle's voice, shortly after her daughter, Cherished disappears from
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Speaker 1: the Walmart purely get back. You want to him. He
0:25
Speaker 1: befriended them both, offering to buy them snacks at a
0:28
Speaker 1: Walmart store. Instead of doing that, they say, he took
0:31
Speaker 1: eight year old Cherish Perry Winkle and killed her. Her
0:35
Speaker 1: body found in a wooded area. This is Crime Stories
0:39
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Donald Smith is charged with murder and kidnapping,
0:44
Speaker 1: and he is a registered sex offender. Smith's trial, he's
0:47
Speaker 1: from the late several times already, Cherish, I'll feel in
0:51
Speaker 1: head it and and I hope you'll memento me. I
0:57
Speaker 1: guess every three days, you know, to be fair, let's
1:02
Speaker 1: just say once a week, I am in a Target
1:08
Speaker 1: or a Kroger, or a public X or a Costco
1:13
Speaker 1: or a Walmart with my children and it's just me
1:18
Speaker 1: and them. I've been on crowded New York streets many,
1:22
Speaker 1: many times, in museums, you name it. And I'm wondering
1:28
Speaker 1: about that moment when you realize within that crowd, that
1:36
Speaker 1: you really are alone. Your child is gone. That is
1:44
Speaker 1: a story of a little girl named Cherish Perrywinkle, an
1:50
Speaker 1: eight year old little girl. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
1:57
Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with me,
2:03
Speaker 1: long time friend and champion. I guess that's really the
2:09
Speaker 1: only word I could use to describe him. He's a champion.
2:14
Speaker 1: Mark Class is with me, who went to Hell and
2:19
Speaker 1: looked the devil in the face and came back to
2:23
Speaker 1: this earth as a champion for victims, for crime victims. Well,
2:31
Speaker 1: I guess that says it all about how I feel
2:33
Speaker 1: about you, Mark, Class, founder of Class Kids. After your
2:37
Speaker 1: little girl Polly went missing and was murdered. From that
2:43
Speaker 1: point on, your life has been about one thing, and
2:46
Speaker 1: that is helping to find missing people, no matter what
2:50
Speaker 1: it takes. Thank you for being with me, Mark, Well,
2:54
Speaker 1: thank you for having me Nancy, and I can assure
2:56
Speaker 1: you it's a it's a mutual for I. I've enjoyed
3:02
Speaker 1: knowing you and working with you in the past, and
3:04
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about this opportunity as well. You know,
3:08
Speaker 1: Cherish Perrywinkle was with her mother and everybody starts a
3:12
Speaker 1: story at Walmart, but that is not where the story starts.
3:16
Speaker 1: The story does not start in Walmart. The story actually starts.
3:21
Speaker 1: And I think it was a family Dollar or a
3:24
Speaker 1: Dollar General, and cherishes mom had her there and they
3:30
Speaker 1: were buying some clothes for Cherish and her sister. And
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Speaker 1: it's the mom and the two girls and they try
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Speaker 1: to go to check out, and the mom doesn't have
3:41
Speaker 1: enough money and insteps a man and he says, oh, man,
3:48
Speaker 1: you're having a problem. You know what, let me cover that,
3:51
Speaker 1: and you know what else, I'm about to meet my
3:53
Speaker 1: wife up the street at Walmart. Bring your girls up there.
4:00
Speaker 1: I've got some money. I'm gonna buy you guys some clothes.
4:04
Speaker 1: So Rain Perrywinkle and her it's three daughters including Cherish,
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Speaker 1: get together and they go up to the Walmart. There
4:15
Speaker 1: you see a gray haired man looks like an old grandpa,
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Speaker 1: Donald Smith inside the Walmart. And it's a it's a superstore,
4:26
Speaker 1: right mark. It's one of those big ones that has,
4:29
Speaker 1: you know, places to eat in it, you can get
4:31
Speaker 1: your hair cut there, just the works. It's probably a
4:35
Speaker 1: tire place everything. And they're in their shopping and I've
4:42
Speaker 1: looked at the surveillance video very very carefully and the
4:48
Speaker 1: guy says, they've been shopping for a while and they're
4:51
Speaker 1: waiting on his wife to get there. And he goes, hey,
4:54
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't want to make your kids
4:55
Speaker 1: wait anymore. Let's go up front to the McDonald's. Come on, cherfs,
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Speaker 1: let's go up there and get some date. And the
5:01
Speaker 1: mom says, okay, I'll be right out there. It's within
5:03
Speaker 1: the same structure, it's you know what, eighty feet away,
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Speaker 1: and she never sees Cherish again. Cherish is kidnapped, brutally raped,
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Speaker 1: and murdered, and there's no doubt about that. And her
5:22
Speaker 1: body isn't submerged halfway down beneath a tree and a
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Speaker 1: swampy muddy. All I can say is a ditch, that's
5:34
Speaker 1: what happened to Cherish that fast. You know, we can
5:38
Speaker 1: blame the mo I'm sure, and I see things that
5:42
Speaker 1: she did wrong, of course, But you know, Mark, she's
5:46
Speaker 1: not the villain in this scenario. He is, and he
5:51
Speaker 1: was a villain long before he came into contact with
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Speaker 1: Cherish and her mother, because he was already a top
6:00
Speaker 1: tier registered sex offender in the state of Florida. I
6:04
Speaker 1: don't get it. I don't get why he's out walking
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Speaker 1: around to start with, and if I'm correct, his previous
6:10
Speaker 1: offenses were for crimes on girls. That's correct, Nancy, And
6:17
Speaker 1: you know is bad as that sounds. I mean, right
6:20
Speaker 1: now here in the state of California, there is UH
6:24
Speaker 1: an effort supported by all of the p o A s,
6:27
Speaker 1: all of the d a's associations that in effect will
6:31
Speaker 1: gut Megan's Law and basically take two thirds of the
6:35
Speaker 1: individuals that are currently registering on a yearly basis and
6:40
Speaker 1: that the public has asked access to and eliminate them
6:44
Speaker 1: from the from the from the roles altogether. So we're
6:49
Speaker 1: starting to see a trend in this country, and California
6:52
Speaker 1: is oftentimes a bell weather state of dumbing down great
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Speaker 1: laws like Megan's Laws. So we won't even have those
6:59
Speaker 1: kinds protections anymore. Mark, why is this happening? Well, Anty,
7:05
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons is that we have
7:08
Speaker 1: an entire generation of of people that have grown up
7:12
Speaker 1: in a very safe society. You know, when when Pauli
7:15
Speaker 1: was kidnapped back in ninety three, we were pretty much
7:18
Speaker 1: in the middle of a crime epidemic in this country.
7:21
Speaker 1: We had crime rates for violent and non violent crime
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Speaker 1: that had really never been seen in this country before.
7:27
Speaker 1: And as a result, a lot of laws Megan's Law,
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Speaker 1: the Amber Alert, ultimately UH Truth and Sentencing UM three
7:35
Speaker 1: strikes and year outward past to hold criminals accountable for
7:39
Speaker 1: their actions. And over the course of the next several years,
7:44
Speaker 1: we put that that percentage of individuals who commit Haines
7:48
Speaker 1: crime behind bars and kept them behind bars, and crime
7:52
Speaker 1: rates absolutely plummeted. So here we are twenty years later
7:56
Speaker 1: in a situation where we kind of live in relatively
7:59
Speaker 1: safe xiety. We're not seeing the kinds of crimes that
8:02
Speaker 1: we've ever seen before in this country. There's two hundred
8:06
Speaker 1: thousand fewer children being reported missing every year now than
8:10
Speaker 1: the word back in the day. And I think people
8:14
Speaker 1: are complacent and as a result of that UM governments
8:18
Speaker 1: are are easy up on criminal justice statutes and criminals
8:23
Speaker 1: are no longer being held accountable, and we're seeing crime
8:27
Speaker 1: rates go up again yet again. I guess it will
8:29
Speaker 1: take cases like Cherish, Pyra, Winkles and Murdyr to be
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Speaker 1: publicized to make lawmakers think twice. It will take more
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Speaker 1: crime bactiesn't before people come to their senses on the
8:40
Speaker 1: laws you are describing. If you don't believe me, take
8:44
Speaker 1: a listen to cherish his mother when she calls nine
8:48
Speaker 1: one one one Robinson. Hi, that will almost uninteresting and taken?
8:56
Speaker 1: What do you mean taken by stranger? I can't priser? Okay, man?
9:03
Speaker 1: How and you say you have the Walmart old In Turner? Yes,
9:09
Speaker 1: I am okay. When was where did you last her at?
9:18
Speaker 1: I made him in today Dollar General. He saw that
9:20
Speaker 1: I was struggling to buy them some clothes. Keep hervous
9:24
Speaker 1: here to buy us some clothes. And the only reason
9:27
Speaker 1: I went with him because she said his wife was
9:30
Speaker 1: gonna be here because I told him I gonna take
9:32
Speaker 1: rides with strangers. Okay, man, what' and her her last name?
9:39
Speaker 1: Can you start up on me please? And is she
9:42
Speaker 1: a white female? Black female? Excuse me? Is she a
9:46
Speaker 1: white or black female? What? What case? From? No? Remember
9:52
Speaker 1: what course she's wearing because I'm panicking right now. I'm
9:54
Speaker 1: trying to notathantic. Okay. And she was lasting what this
9:58
Speaker 1: man is she went? He said he was going to
10:01
Speaker 1: McDonald's And he, dude, he doesn't been there because the
10:05
Speaker 1: store is closed right now? Okay? Is he a white
10:11
Speaker 1: man or a black man? The white man's he's got
10:13
Speaker 1: white short hair, and he's got dark eyebrows. He said, dark,
10:17
Speaker 1: dark short hair. No, he's got white hair, his dark eyebrows.
10:27
Speaker 1: I had a strange feeling get back he when I
10:28
Speaker 1: first met him, and he took her to the He
10:31
Speaker 1: took her to the to the dressing room twice, and
10:35
Speaker 1: I was hoping that she would be okay, and I
10:37
Speaker 1: was looking at the shoes and I didn't want him
10:40
Speaker 1: to think that I was overly protective freaking out. But
10:44
Speaker 1: now they're not here, and I find it very odd
10:49
Speaker 1: because he knew that. Okay, man, what called a vehicle?
10:54
Speaker 1: Does he drive? That's a white fan that Do you
11:00
Speaker 1: remember any stickers or anything on the side of the van,
11:02
Speaker 1: anything that you can remember at all? Did he have
11:04
Speaker 1: tenant windows or anything? And know he's got Corton in
11:09
Speaker 1: the name. And then tricked a good look and he said,
11:14
Speaker 1: what I did, take a good look at the vands. Okay,
11:18
Speaker 1: do you remember what? Did you see any tag on
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Speaker 1: it or anything? Want a tag? No? I didn't look
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Speaker 1: at that. They're like a fool. Okay, can't you remember
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Speaker 1: what he had on? No? I don't remember anything because
11:33
Speaker 1: I'm kindicking right now, okay, man, what's your name? My name,
11:39
Speaker 1: he said, his name is Don. He said he was
11:44
Speaker 1: supposed to beat his wife here, and he's why they
11:46
Speaker 1: were showing up. But I couldn't figure out why his
11:48
Speaker 1: wife did hen show up at Dollar General. And he
11:54
Speaker 1: told you that he y'all were gonna meet his wife
11:56
Speaker 1: at um the Walmart. This first, she was suposed to
12:00
Speaker 1: shop at Dollar General and then he was gonna meet
12:03
Speaker 1: with her at at Walmart. And we've been here probably
12:07
Speaker 1: two hours, and she didn't show up. And I had
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Speaker 1: had this card full of clothes and he said he
12:15
Speaker 1: was going to pay for with a hundred dollar gift card.
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Speaker 1: And I excuse me. I had a bad feeling. I thought, well,
12:24
Speaker 1: I feel like pinching myself because this is too good
12:26
Speaker 1: to be true. So I got to the checkout. He's
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Speaker 1: not here. Isn't here. Now I'm hoping he's not raping
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Speaker 1: her right now, because I've had that done to me.
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Speaker 1: It's not it's not the fun mcause she's she's supposed
12:48
Speaker 1: to go to shell A, Florida in the morning. Who
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Speaker 1: the plane And he knows as I told him this,
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Speaker 1: he knew when the store was closing, he had a
12:58
Speaker 1: bad feeling about him. Okay, how long have you been
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Speaker 1: looking for you? When was the last time he saw?
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Speaker 1: How long ago? About half an hour ago? Got ready
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Speaker 1: for her for half an hour. Yes, there's nobody in
13:12
Speaker 1: the store, and he knew the store was closy. He
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Speaker 1: said he was good to McDonald's. She went with him.
13:19
Speaker 1: I should have told her to stay with me. He
13:24
Speaker 1: was going to the McDonald's inside of the store. Yes,
13:27
Speaker 1: there's a McDonald's, has said the store. He wasn't here. Oh,
13:31
Speaker 1: somebody said they told him, but she's not here. He
13:33
Speaker 1: should have had the uh, the nerves to stay here
13:38
Speaker 1: and wait. She must go the panicking butt out. Okay, man,
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Speaker 1: why are you in the store? Now? Are you outside
13:52
Speaker 1: or where? So? I'm in the front of the store.
13:54
Speaker 1: I think I need to hang up because no, man,
13:57
Speaker 1: are you a white emale, black emil? So? Do you
14:01
Speaker 1: have on that's five a what call a shirt do
14:04
Speaker 1: you have on? I have on a short black polka
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Speaker 1: dot dress and brown flip flop sandals. Do have long
14:14
Speaker 1: red hair? Are you right in front of the store?
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Speaker 1: Exuse me? Who are you talking to the Walmart employee?
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Speaker 1: They're they're talking to my girls? Because I haven't had
14:28
Speaker 1: anything to eat. What's you say, ma'am? I haven't had
14:32
Speaker 1: anything to eat for the Walmart employee was talking to
14:35
Speaker 1: my girls, talking to your who my girls? Okay, you
14:39
Speaker 1: have more kids with you? Yes, I have to my
14:42
Speaker 1: other ones. I think he I think he took her. Okay, man,
14:47
Speaker 1: you have do you think she's been hiking? You say
14:50
Speaker 1: you have other kids with you? Yes? I do. He was,
14:54
Speaker 1: he was he was giving too much attention. Kay. He
15:06
Speaker 1: wanted her to buy these really tall shoes that were
15:10
Speaker 1: women's shoes, and I told him no, I said there's
15:12
Speaker 1: too high for her. I wouldn't even where shoes that high.
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Speaker 1: Maybe he was grooming her out. To God, he doesn't
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Speaker 1: kill her, and not to God, he doesn't rape birth. Okay,
15:24
Speaker 1: And when did you meet him today? I met him
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Speaker 1: that Dollar General on Edgewood. I was struggling with my
15:31
Speaker 1: money to buy the girl some clothes. And he saw
15:33
Speaker 1: that what I was doing, and he waited for us
15:37
Speaker 1: outside the stores, and he said that he was waiting
15:40
Speaker 1: on his wife to show up, and so I waited
15:43
Speaker 1: around to meet her and she didn't show up, and
15:46
Speaker 1: then he said he was going to give us a
15:49
Speaker 1: ride over here to Walmart, and then we waited in
15:53
Speaker 1: the parking lot for maybe twenty minutes for her to
15:56
Speaker 1: show up. She didn't show up, so we all went
15:59
Speaker 1: into the store. We've been here about two hours and
16:06
Speaker 1: she didn't show up. And I don't understand why he
16:10
Speaker 1: would leave right now unless he's got a right, right
16:12
Speaker 1: killer the taily reason, I'm wasting my tim standing here,
16:17
Speaker 1: You're not wasting your time, and we have officers on
16:19
Speaker 1: my way to you. I can't remember what wary. I
16:27
Speaker 1: need to sit down became they closed my eyes and
16:31
Speaker 1: trying to remember what wary. Okay, man, I'm just standing
16:37
Speaker 1: frunning the store and then and yes, try to think
16:40
Speaker 1: about what she's wearing and what he's wearing, so when
16:42
Speaker 1: the officers get there, you can tell them, okay, yeah, okay,
16:45
Speaker 1: can you think of anything else about the van or anything?
16:49
Speaker 1: And he had a line around the van as if
16:51
Speaker 1: it were maybe a mental a middle. I'm not a
16:55
Speaker 1: sticker that maybe I don't know how it's played like
17:00
Speaker 1: a like a pinstripe. You remember all one color the
17:03
Speaker 1: line wise, I think it was dark, maybe like a silver.
17:12
Speaker 1: And it had a big space in the middle of
17:15
Speaker 1: the van where he had taken out where he had
17:18
Speaker 1: taken out a couple of seats, said he put my
17:21
Speaker 1: stroller in there, or I put the stroller in there.
17:26
Speaker 1: M h. I don't want him to kill it, or
17:33
Speaker 1: I want to be one of those parents that very
17:36
Speaker 1: going through this. I steel I feel responsible because I
17:45
Speaker 1: I totally when I first met he that uh says
17:49
Speaker 1: a little bit scared of it because I thought he
17:51
Speaker 1: was waiting to rob us outside the dollor in general,
17:53
Speaker 1: because he was just staying there. And he said, well,
17:57
Speaker 1: if you really want that dress for I don't get
18:01
Speaker 1: it for her. I should have told him no, my
18:08
Speaker 1: my girls need closer beds. Why I let him do it?
18:12
Speaker 1: But I'm so sorry these ladies have to put all
18:15
Speaker 1: the clothes back in the store. Can't you remember anything
18:25
Speaker 1: else about him whenever you were talking to him. Did
18:27
Speaker 1: he sounds funny, like he had an accident, accent or anything,
18:31
Speaker 1: or he said he works for habitacks? He said he
18:34
Speaker 1: worked for habitats. Yes. Did he say where they lived? No,
18:42
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. He said his wife is from
18:48
Speaker 1: the Virgin Islands. We had a little chat in the
18:51
Speaker 1: in the van all the way over. And did he
18:59
Speaker 1: say he lived on my side of town or anything
19:01
Speaker 1: he said he was. He didn't. He didn't know this
19:04
Speaker 1: part of town. He wasn't sure about this part of town.
19:13
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, he knows the store is closed. He knows
19:16
Speaker 1: McDonald's is closed. One of the world would he takes.
19:20
Speaker 1: I don't see the van in the in the parking
19:22
Speaker 1: lot or anything where y'all left it. Well, have you
19:28
Speaker 1: been outside to the parking lot? I went outside the door,
19:32
Speaker 1: but I don't I don't think I see the van.
19:38
Speaker 1: I'll tek. Yeah, yeah, he took hers, he took it away. Okay,
19:43
Speaker 1: who are you speaking with, ma'am. I'm speaking to a
19:45
Speaker 1: Walmart employees. Oh my gosh, Oh my god. Are you
19:55
Speaker 1: outside now, ma'am? Yeah, there's Chick police officers. That Chick
19:58
Speaker 1: police closed. Go ahead to speak with officers. Even after
20:04
Speaker 1: this nine one one call Mark Class, the response to
20:07
Speaker 1: Rain Perrywinkle's emergency call was delayed by police officers. They
20:13
Speaker 1: were saying they were suggesting maybe the mom was confused,
20:17
Speaker 1: maybe the child was in this. I don't know what happened,
20:20
Speaker 1: but their response was delayed. After that, there was a
20:24
Speaker 1: seven week internal investigation that revealed the Jackson sheriff's office
20:30
Speaker 1: doubted the mom's story because she Mark was in the
20:34
Speaker 1: middle of a custody battle over the kids, so they
20:38
Speaker 1: just assumed, hey, she's making this up, and there was
20:43
Speaker 1: a delay in getting and saving Cherish Perrywinkle, Mark, did
20:48
Speaker 1: you know that part? Well, I didn't know that part.
20:51
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the irony is abound heavily in this case.
20:56
Speaker 1: I mean, she was taken out of a Walmart, which
20:59
Speaker 1: is where the whole Code Adam program was born, and
21:04
Speaker 1: that in fact, is a lockdown of the store once
21:07
Speaker 1: a child is discovered to have been missing. So the
21:10
Speaker 1: first thing that should have been available to law enforcements
21:12
Speaker 1: when they finally did arrive at that scene should have
21:16
Speaker 1: been the surveillance video. They should have easily been able
21:19
Speaker 1: to look at that surveillance video see this man walking
21:22
Speaker 1: out with this little girl, and then take the appropriate action,
21:26
Speaker 1: which obviously in this case would have been to to
21:30
Speaker 1: ask for an amber alert to be activated. And they
21:34
Speaker 1: failed to do any of those things. Mark class, I
21:37
Speaker 1: know you know all this like the back of your hand,
21:39
Speaker 1: but our listeners may not. Could you explain the genesis
21:43
Speaker 1: of Code Adam, Well, the genesis of Code Adam was
21:47
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Adam Walsh back in I believe the
21:51
Speaker 1: very early eighties or perhaps the mid eighties in Hollywood, Florida.
21:55
Speaker 1: He was with his mother at a Shears store and
21:59
Speaker 1: she left him loan in a nisle so that he
22:02
Speaker 1: could play with some toys while she did some more
22:04
Speaker 1: serious shopping. And when she came back a very few
22:07
Speaker 1: minutes later to find him, he was absolutely missing, and
22:11
Speaker 1: that ultimately led to well they found, They found Adam.
22:16
Speaker 1: They were never able to get a successful conviction on
22:18
Speaker 1: who had committed that crime against Adam, but ultimately launched
22:22
Speaker 1: his father, John's UM career is one of the great
22:26
Speaker 1: crime fighters of the last half of the twentieth century.
22:30
Speaker 1: UM and then Code Adam then became a It became
22:35
Speaker 1: a template to respond and react when child a child
22:40
Speaker 1: goes missing, things like closing the store down, putting employees
22:44
Speaker 1: on an extra alert, and immediately notifying law enforcement so
22:49
Speaker 1: that they can have a timely response. Mark speaking about
22:53
Speaker 1: being lulled into everyone with me as Mark class tireless
22:57
Speaker 1: victims rights advocate A and knowing what I know, there
23:01
Speaker 1: have been times, now the twins are now nine, that
23:04
Speaker 1: I would let them be together on one row, and
23:07
Speaker 1: I go to the next row, and I time myself
23:10
Speaker 1: as to be to only be gone for three minutes.
23:13
Speaker 1: But the truth is, really they can be gone in
23:16
Speaker 1: three minutes. They can be gone in three minutes, but
23:22
Speaker 1: they're together, Nancy. And it's much more difficult to control
23:25
Speaker 1: two children, especially to two children who I'm sure are
23:29
Speaker 1: is aware is your children of the responses of of strangers,
23:34
Speaker 1: individuals they don't know, etcetera. It would be very, very
23:37
Speaker 1: difficult for them to bamboozle those kids and get them outside.
23:41
Speaker 1: The great danger is when one child is by themselves
23:45
Speaker 1: and really has no other resources than their own young mind.
23:49
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking right now as we're talking, Mark,
23:52
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this guy walking out the door of
23:56
Speaker 1: the Walmart superstore with the little girl beside him, with
24:01
Speaker 1: her beside him, and again everybody's attacked the mom. Yeah,
24:05
Speaker 1: the mom made mistakes, but the mom isn't the killer here. Yes,
24:08
Speaker 1: the mom made mistakes, but she's not the killer. She
24:12
Speaker 1: described that he kept they were looking for clothes, and
24:15
Speaker 1: he kept wanting to get the little girls still like
24:17
Speaker 1: high heels, and she would say no, no, that that
24:21
Speaker 1: wouldn't be right. And I've reviewed the video over and
24:25
Speaker 1: over and over Mark, and so there's the two other
24:28
Speaker 1: little girls and the mother, but even when they're all together,
24:31
Speaker 1: it's like he gets her off to the side. His
24:33
Speaker 1: focus is all on this one eight year old girl.
24:37
Speaker 1: It is very obvious. Then the surveillance video switches and
24:41
Speaker 1: you can see them walking to his vehicle in the
24:45
Speaker 1: parking lot. It's all on video. One has to wonder
24:49
Speaker 1: how law enforcement misconstrues that into some kind of a
24:53
Speaker 1: performance um to gain an advantage in a custody battle.
24:58
Speaker 1: It doesn't even make sense. It's seems to me that
25:00
Speaker 1: you get into that situation, you see that video, and
25:05
Speaker 1: the first thing you do is you respond accordingly. You
25:07
Speaker 1: don't start looking for background information and things to make
25:11
Speaker 1: it not be what it appears to be. There are
25:14
Speaker 1: so many inherent problems as it goes with the Amber alert,
25:19
Speaker 1: and if law enforcement doesn't do their due diligence, doesn't
25:23
Speaker 1: do their duty immediately and respond immediately, then the chances
25:28
Speaker 1: of recovering a child um diminish tremendously. What are the
25:33
Speaker 1: stats on that Mark if it if it's been ten hours,
25:38
Speaker 1: twenty four hours, what are the stats on the likelihood
25:42
Speaker 1: of recovering the child alive. Well, here, here's the problem.
25:47
Speaker 1: In a nutshell, of children that are murdered as a
25:51
Speaker 1: result of abduction will be dead within the first three hours.
25:58
Speaker 1: I think will be d within the first twenty four hours.
26:01
Speaker 1: But it's the three hours that are critical. And the
26:04
Speaker 1: reason that's so critical is because in order to activate
26:07
Speaker 1: an AMBER alert in any state in the United States,
26:11
Speaker 1: the jurisdictional agency really has no authority whatsoever. They can
26:15
Speaker 1: make a recommendation and then send that up the ladder
26:19
Speaker 1: to the amber alert coordinator for the state, who has
26:22
Speaker 1: to be located, has to be notified and has to
26:26
Speaker 1: be brought up to speed on the case before any
26:29
Speaker 1: kind of a determination is going to be made whether
26:31
Speaker 1: an AMBER alert should be issued or not, and all
26:34
Speaker 1: of that takes up huge chunks of time. So unfortunately,
26:40
Speaker 1: it's a situation where if an AMBER alert is going
26:42
Speaker 1: to be activated anywhere in this country, it's going to
26:45
Speaker 1: be somewhere between four to five hours before the alert
26:49
Speaker 1: is activated, which means that the children that need the
26:52
Speaker 1: amber most children like Adam, children like PAULI, are not
26:58
Speaker 1: going to be able to take advantage of it. They're
27:00
Speaker 1: not going to be able to be saved by the
27:02
Speaker 1: Amber alert. The children that are most likely to be
27:05
Speaker 1: saved by the Amber alert are children that are engaged
27:08
Speaker 1: in custodial battles, um children that have acrimonious parents that
27:14
Speaker 1: are trying to you know, one's doing one thing, one's
27:17
Speaker 1: doing other things, very things I think were using Mrs
27:20
Speaker 1: Periwinkle of doing. But the reality is is that those
27:26
Speaker 1: kids aren't going to be harmed anyway. So what they've
27:29
Speaker 1: done is they've created a program that that originally had
27:34
Speaker 1: great intention of benefiting kids like Pauli and kids like
27:38
Speaker 1: Adam that get no benefit from them whatsoever, but they
27:43
Speaker 1: become a great pr device for Amber alert coordinators who
27:48
Speaker 1: can say, well, you know, we we we we had
27:52
Speaker 1: any success rate because they had all the information that
27:56
Speaker 1: they need. One of the one of the conditions you
27:58
Speaker 1: need to meet for an Amber alert is you need
28:01
Speaker 1: to have a vehicle description and or a license plate number. Well,
28:06
Speaker 1: predators don't generally do that. In this case, they did
28:09
Speaker 1: have this description, but generally they don't. You know that,
28:12
Speaker 1: it's so many people failed. This eight year old little
28:16
Speaker 1: girl And when I say eight year old little girl,
28:18
Speaker 1: I think of Lucy who's just turned nine, my little girl.
28:22
Speaker 1: Because the response to the mom's devastating one call was
28:28
Speaker 1: delayed by police officers who didn't believe her. They thought
28:34
Speaker 1: she was lying because she was in the middle of
28:36
Speaker 1: a custody battle fighting to keep her children. Then the
28:42
Speaker 1: media we're not notified of the Amber alert for hours.
28:47
Speaker 1: Hours after the little girl disappeared. More officers were disciplined
28:54
Speaker 1: over that. UM, I don't know what the failure was. There.
28:59
Speaker 1: The v cole that he had I believe had been
29:04
Speaker 1: used in other crimes. Listen to this. The same guy
29:09
Speaker 1: had been released from jail less than one month before,
29:14
Speaker 1: where he served only four hundred and thirty eight days
29:18
Speaker 1: on felony child abuse and impersonation of an officer. He
29:25
Speaker 1: had been out a little over four hundred days. He
29:29
Speaker 1: has been a registered sex offender since nineteen ninety three
29:34
Speaker 1: for trying to kidnap a little girl. I mean is
29:39
Speaker 1: is arrest go back as far as nineteen seventy seven,
29:42
Speaker 1: where he was convicted of indecent assault on a little
29:47
Speaker 1: girl under sixteen. That was nineteen seventy seven, and it
29:53
Speaker 1: goes on and on. He went to prison again in
29:56
Speaker 1: ninety two for attempted kidnapping. He was evicted on that
30:00
Speaker 1: charge in addition to two counts of showing obscene material
30:05
Speaker 1: to a child. I mean, it just goes on and on,
30:07
Speaker 1: and here he is wandering around Walmart. I don't get it.
30:12
Speaker 1: I don't get it. And what this child lived through
30:15
Speaker 1: before she was murdered is awful. There are blood stains
30:20
Speaker 1: on the carpet of his car, of his white van.
30:25
Speaker 1: And you know what, there's no telling how many children
30:29
Speaker 1: he has raped and molested that we don't even know about. Mark,
30:33
Speaker 1: There's no telling how many children really out there that
30:36
Speaker 1: may be dead. Do you think this is the first
30:38
Speaker 1: child he killed. I know it wasn't the first child
30:41
Speaker 1: he raped. That's very telling because what happens with these
30:46
Speaker 1: characters is that the nature of the crimes tend to escalate.
30:49
Speaker 1: And we're talking about a guy that had a forty
30:51
Speaker 1: year history of escalating crime, criminal activity, and they learn
30:55
Speaker 1: at a certain point, Nancy, that you don't leave the
30:58
Speaker 1: evidence behind, that you don't leave the child alive so
31:02
Speaker 1: that the child can ultimately point you out or testify
31:05
Speaker 1: against you. That if you want to stay out of prison,
31:08
Speaker 1: the way you stay out of prison is you become
31:11
Speaker 1: a stealth predator. You take the children, You take the
31:14
Speaker 1: children uh under the veil of darkness, and you get
31:19
Speaker 1: rid of them. So you're exactly right. How many victims
31:23
Speaker 1: were there? Victims that will never be able to tell
31:26
Speaker 1: their story, that you'll never be able to tell their story,
31:29
Speaker 1: Kids that are missing and will continue to be missing,
31:32
Speaker 1: probably forever and ever. This is what I know about
31:35
Speaker 1: Cherish Periwinkle because I have reviewed the documents and much
31:42
Speaker 1: of the evidence in our case. Although it has not
31:44
Speaker 1: gone to trial again, Cherish Periwincoln's and murtyr is nauseating.
31:51
Speaker 1: There are over a hundred ninety pages of documents, nearly
31:55
Speaker 1: a thousand photos, and discovery. Right now we know that, specifically,
32:03
Speaker 1: this eight year old little girl's body was found partially clothed,
32:07
Speaker 1: submerged in about six inches of water and a tidal
32:11
Speaker 1: creak like a ditch, hidden under a log and weighted
32:16
Speaker 1: down by asphalt chunks, an eight year old little girl.
32:24
Speaker 1: We learned that he was covered and scratches. We learned
32:30
Speaker 1: that his clothes were soaking wet, and that the water
32:37
Speaker 1: I guarantee you the water from his clothes, the sediment
32:42
Speaker 1: in his clothes and shoes, are going to be compared
32:45
Speaker 1: to the sediment where he allegedly dumped her body. By
32:51
Speaker 1: putting her body in the water mark, you know, it
32:55
Speaker 1: was in the hopes that she wouldn't be found and
32:58
Speaker 1: that the water would wash a way evidence. There's no
33:01
Speaker 1: doubt in my mind. What do you make of that? No,
33:05
Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely correct. I think that his flaw
33:08
Speaker 1: in this particular case was that he was so desperate
33:11
Speaker 1: for a new victim that he exposed himself. And I
33:14
Speaker 1: think that, you know, in retrospect, if you were to
33:17
Speaker 1: look back, he probably would play this out very differently. Um,
33:21
Speaker 1: but you know, it is what it is. This guy
33:23
Speaker 1: has been caught, Thank goodness. He will never have an
33:26
Speaker 1: opportunity another child. You don't think, don't you think that
33:31
Speaker 1: after his first conviction, Hey, they put him away, he'll
33:34
Speaker 1: never get out again. But he got out once, twice,
33:37
Speaker 1: three times, and now Cherish is dead well as they deserve.
33:41
Speaker 1: Ever been a better argument for the death penalty, Nannswy,
33:44
Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, has there? Because you know, that's how
33:48
Speaker 1: you put a stop to these guys, and unfortunately that's
33:51
Speaker 1: the only way you put a stop to these guys.
33:54
Speaker 1: I don't want to take you and me to a
33:57
Speaker 1: dark place, but I'm going to This guy's body was
34:04
Speaker 1: covered in scratches. You know what that means. As this
34:09
Speaker 1: child was raped, as this child was murdered, she was
34:13
Speaker 1: fighting to live and she ended up dead submerged in water.
34:22
Speaker 1: This guy has been let out, let out, let out,
34:25
Speaker 1: let out, And I want justice smart, and I tell you,
34:31
Speaker 1: I just don't know how to get it in this case,
34:33
Speaker 1: because he should never have been left out four hundred days,
34:38
Speaker 1: four hundred days on yet another child abuse case, and
34:44
Speaker 1: you're so sure he'll go away for good this time. Really,
34:47
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, that's three hundred days more
34:51
Speaker 1: free he had than the guy that killed my daughter had.
34:54
Speaker 1: I mean, he was out ninety days, decided he was
34:57
Speaker 1: going to take out Falling. Don't understand it either, Nancy.
35:01
Speaker 1: I don't understand why you get a serial predator, somebody
35:05
Speaker 1: with the recipirous history that goes back decades and decades
35:08
Speaker 1: and decades, that escalates all along the line, and they
35:12
Speaker 1: continue to find reasons to allow these people back out
35:15
Speaker 1: under the streets, knowing full well exactly happened, not point
35:21
Speaker 1: who the victim is going to be, but knowing full
35:23
Speaker 1: well that they're going to kill, they're going to rape,
35:26
Speaker 1: and they'll probably do it multiple times unless they slip
35:30
Speaker 1: up like this character did. I understand that. That's why
35:35
Speaker 1: I that's why you have been fighting all of these years, Nancy,
35:39
Speaker 1: to hold these people accountable for their actions. But as
35:42
Speaker 1: much as we fight, as hard as we fight, as
35:46
Speaker 1: real as our arguments can be, there are those out
35:49
Speaker 1: there that feel that it's society's fault, or that dad
35:52
Speaker 1: didn't give them enough hugs, or that there's some other
35:55
Speaker 1: social reason that can be that can be remedied by rehabilitation,
36:01
Speaker 1: or by counseling, or by a minimal time in prison.
36:06
Speaker 1: But it never works. It never works, and we find
36:10
Speaker 1: ourselves in these horrible cycles, going again and again and
36:14
Speaker 1: again and again, and unfortunately, in my case, my little
36:18
Speaker 1: girl was the endgame for this guy. Well, I say,
36:22
Speaker 1: to the end game. But you know what, he's still
36:24
Speaker 1: alive in prison. He's he's living in an environment right
36:29
Speaker 1: now where our governor and our legislature in California are
36:33
Speaker 1: doing everything they can to either a eliminate a death penalty,
36:40
Speaker 1: which then I believe would ultimately make him eligible for parole,
36:44
Speaker 1: or be find other reasons to empty out our prisons
36:48
Speaker 1: by dumming down the criminal justice legislation that exists. So,
36:53
Speaker 1: you know, is there an answer. I don't know if
36:55
Speaker 1: there's an answer. Does it infuriate me as much as
36:58
Speaker 1: it infuriates you. I don't know what we can do
37:01
Speaker 1: except keep fighting the good fight, you know more. Another thing,
37:06
Speaker 1: sometimes I've noticed that let me just say, normal people normal,
37:13
Speaker 1: not you and not me. Okay, I call it crime.
37:18
Speaker 1: Violent crime only happens to low rent people. Okay, I've
37:23
Speaker 1: noticed it. It's anecdotal like, oh, yeah, she was in
37:28
Speaker 1: the she was in a bad area. She shouldn't have
37:30
Speaker 1: been there, he shouldn't have done this. Blah blah blah
37:33
Speaker 1: blah blah. It just you know anything. And you know why,
37:38
Speaker 1: I don't fault people for that. You know why I
37:40
Speaker 1: think they do it. I think they do it so
37:43
Speaker 1: in their mind they can go that's never gonna happen
37:46
Speaker 1: to me because I don't fill in the blank. I
37:51
Speaker 1: never would let let my kid walk to the food
37:55
Speaker 1: stand in the Walmart. I would never do X. And
37:59
Speaker 1: it think it makes them feel safer or better. I
38:03
Speaker 1: don't know what, But I think you have to live
38:09
Speaker 1: live this life and you know, walk timmans, walk Timmans
38:14
Speaker 1: in my moccasins. I always told her not to talk
38:23
Speaker 1: to strangers and that I would always be there protected
38:26
Speaker 1: to protect her. And you know what, she didn't talk
38:29
Speaker 1: to strangers. A stranger busted into her bedroom and he
38:33
Speaker 1: took her, and you know what, I wasn't there to
38:35
Speaker 1: protect her. So it takes more than platitudes. It takes
38:39
Speaker 1: more than words. It takes action, and it takes commitment,
38:43
Speaker 1: and it takes an understanding on the part of the
38:46
Speaker 1: public in general that terrible things can happen to very
38:50
Speaker 1: very good people, and the only way we can stop
38:53
Speaker 1: that is to be diligent in our commitment to keeping
38:58
Speaker 1: innocent people from those that are horrible. I am very
39:07
Speaker 1: upset about what you're saying, and I know you're telling
39:10
Speaker 1: the truth. I don't have any reason to doubt, yet
39:12
Speaker 1: very upset about trying to that there is a movement
39:16
Speaker 1: of foot to water down the law where these people
39:21
Speaker 1: are going to be out. They're going to get out
39:25
Speaker 1: back on the street, and there are going to be
39:28
Speaker 1: so many innocent victims that are going to live through
39:31
Speaker 1: what I live through every day. They're going to live
39:33
Speaker 1: through what you live through every day. I just don't
39:38
Speaker 1: understand why we have to repeat this. The preliminary reports,
39:45
Speaker 1: crime reports from the FBI for the last two years
39:49
Speaker 1: um have indicated, and they've in fact, they've proven that
39:53
Speaker 1: both violent and non violent crime in California is escalating.
39:59
Speaker 1: It's going up. So those victims already exist. Those people
40:03
Speaker 1: that are walking in your shoes and that are walking
40:05
Speaker 1: in my shoes are only now getting used to the
40:09
Speaker 1: idea and trying to get a grip on what happened
40:12
Speaker 1: to them. Because violent offenders are being put back on
40:15
Speaker 1: the street, and they're committing violent offenses at an escalating rate.
40:21
Speaker 1: I want to want to ask you one last question.
40:24
Speaker 1: M hmm. Do you ever quote get over it? Quote?
40:32
Speaker 1: Do you ever go a period of days where you
40:36
Speaker 1: don't think about Polly? I mean, because I don't, And
40:41
Speaker 1: for people that haven't lived through it, they think there's
40:45
Speaker 1: something wrong with you. Sometimes I think is there something
40:49
Speaker 1: wrong with me? But I keep remembering, and when I
40:52
Speaker 1: hear cases like this, I think about it again. It's
40:56
Speaker 1: all fresh, even this many years later. I don't get
41:01
Speaker 1: over it, and I think about it all the time.
41:07
Speaker 1: I mean, my my life has been surrounded by twelve
41:12
Speaker 1: year old little girl for the last twenty five years. Wow,
41:20
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, I don't know, Nancy. It's
41:23
Speaker 1: made me a better person because it's given me more
41:26
Speaker 1: empathy than I've ever had. It's given me a greater
41:29
Speaker 1: understanding than I've ever had. It's given me a cause,
41:31
Speaker 1: and it's given me a commitment. But all the price
41:34
Speaker 1: that one pays for those kinds of things, it's just unfathomable.
41:40
Speaker 1: And sure, it hurts, will always hurt. There's always a
41:43
Speaker 1: hole in your heart. You can kind of recover, but
41:48
Speaker 1: you never fully recover because it's always there. The hurts, there,
41:52
Speaker 1: the pains there there. I say this, Mark, just talking
41:59
Speaker 1: to you, it gives me strength. It gives me strength
42:04
Speaker 1: to do another podcast. It gives me strength to report
42:08
Speaker 1: on another case. It gives me strength to battle another politician.
42:14
Speaker 1: Just hearing your voice and listening to you speak gives
42:18
Speaker 1: me strength. And I pray to God that whoever hears
42:20
Speaker 1: you today that you empowered them the way you are
42:25
Speaker 1: empowering me. Thank you, friend, Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off,
42:29
Speaker 1: goodbye friend.