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The Bloodline of Giants · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Gary's German, and I have across the table
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  Speaker 2: from me an author. His name is Tim Chafey, and
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  Speaker 2: he's written a book called Fallen and we're going to
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  Speaker 2: talk about fallen angels and a whole lot more, right, Tim.
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  Speaker 1: That's right, Gary, Thanks for having me on. It's a privilege.
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  Speaker 2: It's a privilege to have you here because this book
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  Speaker 2: is an example of how to do deep research. And
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  Speaker 2: you've done a lot of research on the sons of
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  Speaker 2: God and the nepheline and the Bible, and I think
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  Speaker 2: in the days in which we live, people are coming
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  Speaker 2: up with a lot of questions about that, and maybe
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  Speaker 2: a few decades ago Christians didn't look that deeply into
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  Speaker 2: the Bible on this subject.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's true. I think part of that is
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  Speaker 1: probably due to the rise of the Internet and social media.
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  Speaker 1: You're able to find materials that you never would have
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  Speaker 1: been able to find before, and so there's more books
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  Speaker 1: being written. Unfortunately, a lot of times, I think they
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  Speaker 1: focus on the fantastical or the sensational rather than just
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  Speaker 1: a detailed biblical study on the topic, which is what
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  Speaker 1: I wanted to do. But yeah, the Internet has allowed
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  Speaker 1: us to realize there are a lot of other people
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  Speaker 1: who think about these weird things like I do, and
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  Speaker 1: they want to know about it too. And whereas before
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  Speaker 1: publishers are like, that's not going to sell, we don't
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  Speaker 1: need to do that. But the Bible talks about this
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  Speaker 1: subject quite a bit, and so there are a lot
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  Speaker 1: of questions about it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, in Genesis six, the sons of God came in
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  Speaker 2: to the daughters of men took wives, and it's a
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  Speaker 2: very simple statement, not much to it, no details, but
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  Speaker 2: it raises a multitude of questions, and in a way,
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  Speaker 2: that's what your book is all about, right, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the first half of the book is all
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  Speaker 1: about who are those sons of God? Because that is
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  Speaker 1: a debated topic within the church. And then the second
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  Speaker 1: half is who are the Nephiline?
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  Speaker 2: Okay, who are those sons of God? Now a huge question,
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  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking of a lot of TV I've seen
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  Speaker 2: lately speculating on ancient peoples and ancient mythology and linking
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  Speaker 2: it to maybe some of the UFO appearances and saying
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  Speaker 2: they're back those same angels that used to fall down
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  Speaker 2: or have come down on planet Earth, are now coming
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  Speaker 2: down in their UFOs, and you hear all kinds and
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  Speaker 2: every kind of mixture you can think of on this
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  Speaker 2: subject lately. But of course what we want is the
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  Speaker 2: truth as expressed in the Bible.
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  Speaker 1: Right, And so that was my goal, is to filter
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  Speaker 1: out a lot of that noise, that of all of
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  Speaker 1: the modern speculation, modern sensationalism, if you will. It doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean that all of that is necessarily wrong. But let's
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  Speaker 1: just look at what does the Bible actually tell us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, give it a go here. Where would you start?
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  Speaker 1: Well, first, we've got to identify who the sons of
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  Speaker 1: God are? Who are the daughters of men? And when
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  Speaker 1: you look at that terminology and tell us when men
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  Speaker 1: began to multiply on the face of the earth and
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  Speaker 1: daughters were born to them, that the sons of God
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  Speaker 1: saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful, and
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  Speaker 1: they took wives from whomever they chose. So the sons
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  Speaker 1: of God, that's the first time that wording appears in
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  Speaker 1: the Bible. And there are three primary views that Christians
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  Speaker 1: have held for the last two thousand years. One is
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  Speaker 1: the earliest view that we know of is that they
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  Speaker 1: were angelic beings who rebelled against God, married women and
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  Speaker 1: had children by them. And most people who hold that
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  Speaker 1: view would say that the nepheline the giants, were the
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  Speaker 1: children from those unions. That was the earliest Christian view,
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  Speaker 1: is the earliest Jewish view as far as we know.
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  Speaker 1: And then around the beginning of the second century, another
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  Speaker 1: view came about from some Jewish rabbis, and it was
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  Speaker 1: what we call the royalty view or the divine kings view.
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  Speaker 1: These were kings who viewed themselves as divine, or there
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  Speaker 1: were judges who viewed themselves as divine, and their children
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  Speaker 1: the sons of those divine beings, the people who view
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  Speaker 1: themselves a divine The sons were taking wives into their harems,
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  Speaker 1: and so the sin there would be like polygamy, and
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  Speaker 1: that's why they were judged for that. It doesn't really
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  Speaker 1: explain why they would have giant offspring. There are a
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  Speaker 1: lot of other problems of that as well. But the
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  Speaker 1: third view, and the one that's been dominant in church
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  Speaker 1: history from about the time of Augustine, so late fourth century,
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  Speaker 1: early fifth century up until about the last hundred years,
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  Speaker 1: is that the sons of God were actually men from
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  Speaker 1: the line of Adam to Noah through Adam's sun Seth.
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  Speaker 1: So they call this the Seth I view. And then
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  Speaker 1: the daughters of men were the women in the line
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  Speaker 1: of Cain. And so what the sin there was according
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  Speaker 1: to this view is that the sons of God, the
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  Speaker 1: descendants of the son of the descendants of Seth, were
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  Speaker 1: marrying intermarrying to believer, marrying unbelievers, what the view says,
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  Speaker 1: and so that was the problem. So those are the
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  Speaker 1: three major views. And so what I do in the
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  Speaker 1: book is I lay out each case and I say,
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  Speaker 1: here's the argument for each one. Here's the arguments against it.
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  Speaker 1: And I think the first one I mentioned, the fallen
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  Speaker 1: angel view, is the only one that holds up to
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  Speaker 1: any scrutiny.
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  Speaker 2: And the dominant portion of the book is devoted to
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  Speaker 2: explaining that the angelic view.
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  Speaker 1: Right, that's right. So I spend several chapters. I think
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  Speaker 1: there are four chapters that deal with the arguments for
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  Speaker 1: that position from scripture, both Old Testament, New Testament, also
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  Speaker 1: church history. And then there are five chapters dealing with
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  Speaker 1: the objections to that view. Because I want to make
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  Speaker 1: sure everybody's objections are heard. I've heard a lot of them,
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  Speaker 1: and if people read the book, they're probably going to think,
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  Speaker 1: I've never even heard of that one before. But I'm
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  Speaker 1: glad he included it because I'm wondering how he would
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  Speaker 1: explain it. But the other ones I think have fatal flaws.
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  Speaker 1: So the Sethite view and the Royalty Boot view, I
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  Speaker 1: think that the text rules them out pretty easily, and
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  Speaker 1: I think a lot of times the reason people adopt
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  Speaker 1: those is they're uncomfortable with the fallen angel view. It's
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  Speaker 1: not because of what the text does or doesn't say.
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  Speaker 1: It's the more of a gut feeling reaction to it
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  Speaker 1: that they don't like it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you have mighty men of old in the King
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  Speaker 2: James version. What came out of these unions with sons
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  Speaker 2: of God are called mighty men of old, men of renown.
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  Speaker 2: Who are those mighty men? And who are those men
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  Speaker 2: of renown?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the beginning of verse four says the nepheline
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  Speaker 1: or the giants, that the word nephileine just means giants.
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  Speaker 1: People will try to say, oh, it means fallen ones.
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  Speaker 1: No it doesn't, and I go through that in the book.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you.
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  Speaker 2: Do spend a lot of time on that question. By
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  Speaker 2: the way, what does that we call it nepheline from Nephal.
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  Speaker 1: Well, people will argue that it's from Nephal, but it's not.
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  Speaker 1: But it's not, it's not.
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  Speaker 2: And I remember that. Do you spend a lot of
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  Speaker 2: time on that question.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it destroys a lot of the other arguments.
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  Speaker 1: People will will base their entire idea.
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  Speaker 2: But that's what I hear all the time.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all over the internet, it's on podcasts, it's
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  Speaker 1: all over. But you know where, you won't find it
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  Speaker 1: where Hebrew English lexicons. You won't find it in academic commentaries. Wow,
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  Speaker 1: you won't find scholar saying it. You'll find pop theology
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  Speaker 1: saying it. And it's not that they're always wrong. But
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  Speaker 1: if the linguistic scholars are saying, no, it doesn't mean that,
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  Speaker 1: and the academic the people who make a living and
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  Speaker 1: then study this their whole career, are saying it doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean that, but the language itself shows that it can't
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  Speaker 1: be from the verb nepal, because if you wanted to
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  Speaker 1: turn that into a participle, which is they're going to
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  Speaker 1: be using this verb as a noun, it either because
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  Speaker 1: of the way the Hebrew language works that it morphs the
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  Speaker 1: morphology so that the letters change, the vowels change a
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  Speaker 1: little bit. It becomes nophilim or nef fulim with a U,
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  Speaker 1: it does not become nephiline. So the word nephiline is
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  Speaker 1: actually from an Aramaic noun, nephiel. And when you make
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  Speaker 1: that plural and aramic, it's nepheline.
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  Speaker 2: The field rather than the fall right and feel.
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  Speaker 1: Just mean giant, okay. So nephiline is plural of giant.
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  Speaker 1: It means giants.
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  Speaker 2: Giants, okay. So that kind of puts us on course
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  Speaker 2: here to begin the discussion.
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  Speaker 1: And so that's who those mighty men were, because it
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  Speaker 1: tells us that the nepheline, the giants were on the
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  Speaker 1: earth in those days. Now, remember Moses is writing this,
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  Speaker 1: So he says in those days talking about before the
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  Speaker 1: flood and also afterwards. So before the flood and after
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  Speaker 1: the flood, whenever the sons of God came into the
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  Speaker 1: daughters of men and bought children, these are the mighty
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  Speaker 1: men of all men. Every Now, so the offspring of
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  Speaker 1: those unions were giants.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Moses was in a really good position to know
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  Speaker 2: that history. Yes, having grown up in Egypt as part
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  Speaker 2: of a very important family in Egypt, and himself a
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  Speaker 2: notary of personality, he was very well known, very well respected.
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  Speaker 2: Apparently I've read from secular history history that Moses actually
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  Speaker 2: was a general in the Egyptian army, is credited with
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  Speaker 2: having fought a battle and won, and he was called
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  Speaker 2: a hero in battle. And you don't read that in
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  Speaker 2: the Bible, but you do find it in little tidbits
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  Speaker 2: of history here and there. Whether true or not that
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  Speaker 2: we can discuss that. But the point is Moses is
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  Speaker 2: writing from that perspective, and you sort of have to
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  Speaker 2: listen to him when he puts these things down, right.
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  Speaker 1: And so Moses is if you think about when he's
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  Speaker 1: writing this, it's during the probably during the wilderness wandering.
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  Speaker 1: So it is, yes, he spent forty days on Mount
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  Speaker 1: Sinai with the Lord, and that's where you get Exodus
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  Speaker 1: twenty and some of the Law. But then a lot
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  Speaker 1: of Genesis and some of the other books are being
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  Speaker 1: written during the wilderness wandering that forty years. And they
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  Speaker 1: sent the spies into the land before that, and they're
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  Speaker 1: supposed to spy it out and they come back talking
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  Speaker 1: about giants, talking about nepheline in the land, and so
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  Speaker 1: Moses is talking about, here's how these people got here.
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  Speaker 1: Let me take you back to Genesis Chap. I'll tell
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  Speaker 1: you what happened before the flood. By the way, they
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  Speaker 1: were here before, they're also hereafter. And how did it happen, Well,
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  Speaker 1: it's whenever the sons of God did this activity. That's
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  Speaker 1: how you get the nephilem on the earth. And so
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  Speaker 1: he gives us that. The other thing that it happens
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  Speaker 1: in that same context, and we often skip over verse
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  Speaker 1: three of Genesis six, where it talks about the Lord said,
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  Speaker 1: my spirit will not strive with man or dwell in
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  Speaker 1: man forever, for his indeed flesh and his days. She'll
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  Speaker 1: be one hundred and twenty years. Most think about where
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  Speaker 1: that this passage is positioned. It's right after Genesis five,
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  Speaker 1: where Adam lives nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
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  Speaker 1: Seth lives nine hundred and twelve years and he died.
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  Speaker 1: Skip down a little ways Methusalah nine hundred and sixty
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  Speaker 1: nine years and he died. And all of these guys
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  Speaker 1: over nine hundred years old. If you're in an Israelite
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  Speaker 1: wandering in the wilderness and hearing that for the first time,
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  Speaker 1: what question are you asking? How come we don't live
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  Speaker 1: so long? How come these guys used to live over
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  Speaker 1: nine hundred years? And then right after that you get
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  Speaker 1: this passage the Sons of God and the Nephilem, and
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  Speaker 1: in verse three, God says, your days are going to
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  Speaker 1: be one hundred two. And what you see from that
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  Speaker 1: point on is a drop. You have Noah living nine
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  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty years, next generation is six hundred. Then
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  Speaker 1: it's into the four hundreds, all the way down to Moses,
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  Speaker 1: who lived one hundred and twenty years. And since Moses,
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  Speaker 1: how many people have lived one hundred and twenty years?
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  Speaker 1: Just Jehoya to the priest one hundred and thirty years.
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  Speaker 1: Other than that, nobody reaches that true. And so I
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  Speaker 1: think it was God's way of saying, look, I let
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  Speaker 1: you live. You're supposed to live forever, but you ate
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  Speaker 1: the fruit, you're gonna die, and now you're not going
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  Speaker 1: to live more than a thousand years. At least that's
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  Speaker 1: what we see in Genesis five. So he reduced their lifespans,
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  Speaker 1: and then look how wicked people become if we let
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  Speaker 1: them live nine hundred years. So now to curb that wickedness,
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  Speaker 1: you're dropping down to one twenty. And that's what we see.
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  Speaker 1: So I think that this topic explains that as well.
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  Speaker 2: So Moses writes about the mighty men in which we're
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  Speaker 2: of old and of course Moses himself is a landmark figure,
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  Speaker 2: and he was he was hated but respected, and I
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  Speaker 2: remember that, you know when you read about Moses in
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  Speaker 2: secular history or in Greco Roman histories, a touch on
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  Speaker 2: Moses occasionally and say things that did that really happen
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  Speaker 2: or not? But he was a legendary figure, I think,
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  Speaker 2: even to people scattered around the world at his time,
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  Speaker 2: the powerful, powerful man. So when he makes this statement
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  Speaker 2: and he's talking about mighty men which were of old,
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  Speaker 2: men of renown, he is pointing you to something for
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  Speaker 2: a reason here, and that's something is still being debated
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  Speaker 2: very assiduously.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be a reference to you know, you
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  Speaker 1: look at Greco Roman history, you look at the Greek
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  Speaker 1: gods on Olympus and the you know, the Romans kind
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  Speaker 1: of had the same gods, just give him different names,
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  Speaker 1: but you got Norse Mythol and all sorts of different
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  Speaker 1: mythologies that have the gods coming down and having affairs
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  Speaker 1: with women and producing demigods, mighty men like Hercules and
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  Speaker 1: Theseus and some of these other ones. Even the Amazons
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  Speaker 1: according to some tradition, like the women who were some
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  Speaker 1: of them have them as demigods. And so you have
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  Speaker 1: these mighty beings that are talked about in these different cultures,
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  Speaker 1: and I think what those are. I call them echoes
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  Speaker 1: of reality, echoes of history. So it's like the mankind
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  Speaker 1: had a shared history up till Babbel. You know, up
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  Speaker 1: in Genesis chapter eleven, they had the same they got
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  Speaker 1: off the arc and that those people, rather than scattering
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  Speaker 1: like they were supposed to, they went to the plane
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  Speaker 1: of Shinar and they're building the city in a tower,
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  Speaker 1: and so they had the same history at that point.
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  Speaker 1: But then when they scatter, they start to pass that
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  Speaker 1: history down generation after generation and it gets distorted over
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  Speaker 1: the years, but that kernel of truth is still there.
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  Speaker 1: So you have a whole bunch of things from Genesis
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  Speaker 1: one through eleven that these ancient cultures share, even though
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  Speaker 1: they're distorted in many ways. So the creation of man
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  Speaker 1: from the dust of the ground, man being man dies
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  Speaker 1: or becomes sinful because of something to do with the
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  Speaker 1: tree and or a serpent. A worldwide flood is all
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  Speaker 1: over the place. Hundreds of those legends have that, even
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  Speaker 1: Babbel legends. We found about twenty three of those. But
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  Speaker 1: the other thing that occurs in a lot of them
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  Speaker 1: is the gods coming down and meeting with women and
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  Speaker 1: producing giants or demigods. And so I think what we
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  Speaker 1: see there is echoes of the real history which is
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  Speaker 1: recorded for us in Genesis.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. What I would like to say at this point
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  Speaker 2: is not only when you're looking at Genesis six, not
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  Speaker 2: only do you suddenly come to the flood, the mighty men,
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  Speaker 2: which were of old men of renown, and then just
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  Speaker 2: very quickly we turned to the ungodly being destroyed in
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  Speaker 2: the flood and the godly. And it begins with these words,
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  Speaker 2: Noah found grace in the to the Lord, which is
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  Speaker 2: the biggest turn of history you can possibly think of.
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  Speaker 1: The incredible wickedness and no fund grace.
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  Speaker 2: And Noah found grace. And I explicitly believe, you know,
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  Speaker 2: in the story of Noah and the Arc and the
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  Speaker 2: global flood.
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  Speaker 1: For the record, I do too. I work at the
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  Speaker 1: Arc as a matter of fact, I've done a little
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  Speaker 1: bit of research on that too.
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  Speaker 2: You've done a little bit of research on the flood,
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  Speaker 2: and you basically, and we can talk for a moment
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  Speaker 2: about that. You meet people, you talk to people, they
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  Speaker 2: have a lot of questions. What's the number one question
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  Speaker 2: about the flood and all those animals and that big
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: boat and so forth.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well you hit on both of them right there.
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  Speaker 1: People will always ask, especially skeptical to last, but even
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  Speaker 1: Christians will wonder how could he fit all those animals
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  Speaker 1: on the arc, and how could you build something so big?
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  Speaker 1: And then once they go and visit the ark encounter,
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  Speaker 1: which I would encourage everybody to do, and of course
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  Speaker 1: the best part of my writing, but see it when
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  Speaker 1: you see how large it is, built to the biblical scale,
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  Speaker 1: and you begin to realize, oh, you could fit a
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  Speaker 1: lot on there. And when you realize what Animalty actually
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  Speaker 1: had to bring on board the arc, it wasn't millions
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  Speaker 1: and millions like so many people throw out there. Once
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  Speaker 1: they start to think through this topic in a way
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  Speaker 1: that makes sense of the text, in a way that
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  Speaker 1: makes sense of reality, they realize this is feasible, this
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  Speaker 1: could happen, and one thing. I don't remember if I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: said at the beginning of the show, but I should
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  Speaker 1: probably mention it here if people recognize me from the
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  Speaker 1: Arc Encounter the Creation Museum as the content manager there.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm talking about today is my own personal view
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  Speaker 1: as a ministry answer. The Genesis doesn't take an official
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  Speaker 1: view on the sons of God. In the nepheline, we
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  Speaker 1: have a non position position. So I just don't want
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  Speaker 1: people to think that, oh Tim speaking on behalf of
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  Speaker 1: the ministry at that point. Now, this is my own
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  Speaker 1: view and it's the right one. And there you go.
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  Speaker 2: I know you believe in the right view because you've
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  Speaker 2: got this book entitled Fallen, which is I have to say,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: some of the most detailed grammatical research I've ever seen.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And by grammatical I'm looking at the sons of God
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and the way you have followed that through grammatical history
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: to determine just exactly who these sons of God were.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: And it's a grammatical work of art. Yeah.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: So if you look at the rest of the Bible,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: you know that the wording there in Hebrews bene Elohim,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: it's just sons of God or sons of the Gods,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: depending on how you want to translate Elochim. There it's
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: used three times in job job one, job thirty eight seven,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and we know for a fact in thirty eight seven
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it's referring to angelic beings. God is talking about while
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: he's creating the world, and he asked, job, were you
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: there when this happened? Then he said, when the sons
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of God shout out for joy in the morning, starts
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: saying together. Or maybe it's the other way around, but
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: they're angelic beings watching what's taking place when God is creating.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: And then in job one, in job two, it's talking
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: about when Satan came to prison, when the sons of
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: also came among them. They're clearly angelic beings in this passage,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: in all three of those passages. And so when you
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: go back to Genesis and you see the only other
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: time that that phrasing is used is in Genesis sixty
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: two six' four and Also deuteronomy thirty two eight in
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: The Dead Sea, scrolls and you see that mirrored in
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: the septuagen it also used that it clearly is referring
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: to angelic. Beings so to suddenly turn that into these
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: are godly. Men, well The bible tells us that Only
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: noah was righteous Before. God the rest of the people
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: at that time weren't. Godly and if these men were so,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: godly like The sethite view, says why do they keep
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: marrying ungodly? WOMEN i, mean sure that happens from time to,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: time but why would that continually? Happen and so why
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Would there's so many problems with That sethyite view from
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: a grammatical textual. Perspective why if you look at those
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: two lines like they, do the line From cain and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the line From, seth why do they narrow it down
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: to just? Two? Adam and you've had a lot of
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: other sons and daughters, too it says In genesis five to,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Four so why only? Two and how come the line
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: where they want the daughters to be from is the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: line that never mentioned. Daughters but the line With seth
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: mentioned sons and daughters in every, generation and so it
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense of the immediate context at. All it
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: has to use something from The New, testament this idea
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that believers are called sons Of, god except for whenever
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: The New testament speaks to. That nearly every, case it's something,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: future it's something that will be revealed when the sons
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Of god are revealed As roman they talks about it's
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: something that we're longing for when we're looking forward to.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: That so, positionally, yes we are sons Of god.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Now but you Mentioned, job And job begins With satan
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: and as some of his henchmen being instructed by The,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: lord who Presents job as a case case in, question
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and he, SAYS i would like for you to look
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: at my Servant job down. Here see what You and
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the whole book Of job is an instruction sort of
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: on the interaction between the devil and humanity and Where,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: god the love Of god interposes. Itself and in a,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: way that's the story we're looking at In. Genesis when
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: the sons Of god came into the daughters of. Men
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: god did not Destroy. Satan he did not destroy all
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: those evil, ones but rather allowed them to continue in
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: an interaction that lasted and is still. Lasting but they
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: are going to be destroyed at some point in the.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Future so we're part of that, long long. Story.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah And jude and Tewod peter both tell us that
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: those the angels who, sinned and One peter three eighteen
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and twenty says it as. Well those angels that sind
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: In noah's day are being held in chains of darkness
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: until that day of. Judgment so they were allowed to
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: run around and do their thing for a, while but
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: eventually got said enough and those ones are incarcerated for
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: until the. End but other ones are still roaming, around
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: still doing their their deceptive, ways And god Allows that's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: just like he allows human beings to be, sinful to
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: do wicked, things and they're in a sense they're heaping
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: judgment upon, themselves But he's also patient and giving them
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: time to turn, back to turn to.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Him he allows them to, sin but there is still, grace,
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yes and who can plumb the depths of the love Of.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: GOD i, mean it's it's, phenomenal, yeah and which is
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: a central message of The, bible by the. Way but
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the evil that comes about in the, rebellion the original
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: big rebellion that we read, about and all of the
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: the subsequent rebellions down through The Old testament and into
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: The new really set the. Scene and there's always a
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: side story out, here which is kind of What i'm interested,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: in because WHEN i read your, BOOK i couldn't help,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: thinking but think about the video productions that are going
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: on these, days, DVDs pro television programs on. Supernatural everybody's
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: kind of in love with the. Supernatural whe there's hunting,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: ghosts Hunting, bigfoot looking up in the sky to see
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: if we can find supernatural beings coming down and landing
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: on Planet. Earth and they're all looking for a. Savior
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: they want something to come down and kind of save.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Mankind and then when you go to the sci fi,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: world science fiction, movies one after another after, another all
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: have that sub theme of man being saved by superior
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: technology or. Whatever and you have a hero or a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: group of, heroes and people love. That and so you
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: go back to The. Bible you look at That bible
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: story and you, say, wow. Heroes Job and by the,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Way job is one of my. Heroes he went through
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: that And god used him to illustrate a particular point
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: about his. Grace but it's intermixed with the story of
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: the sons Of god come cole mingling with the daughters of.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Men that whole, story it kind of filters through The
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Old testament into The. New and SO i notice here
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: in chapter eight you have The Old testament Fallen angel,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: view The New, testament Ancient jewish support for the Fallen angel,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: view and Early christian support for the Fallen angel. View
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: so this story is kind of traceable down through.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: History it, is and SO i included for each of the,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: VIEWS i gave the best arguments that were out there
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: for the, view and THEN i critiqued the. Views and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: so when it came to the Fallen angel of, you
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: there are four chapters worth of evidence or arguments for the.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Position you Have Old testament. ARGUMENTS i gave a few,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: already but there's one other THAT i didn't. Mention In
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: daniel three twenty, five you mentioned one of your, heroes
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Job daniel's one of my, heroes and so you've Got
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Shadrack meche kind of been to go thrown into the fiery.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Furnace and then The nebuk sees a fourth one who
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: looks like the son Of god or a son of the,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: gods depending on your. Translation The. Aramaic that's one section
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Of daniel that's actually written In, aramic Not. Greek it's
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Bar elaheen is the word that's he's. There it's The
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: aramic equivalent of Bene. Eloheim so and then he says
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: three verses, later For god has sent his angel to rescue.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Them So nevzzer equates the sons Of, god the Bar
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: elaheen Or Bene elohem with. Angels so even in that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: passage that mindset for The, HEBREWS i know that they're
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: not A, hebrew but A hebrew is writing. That so
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: that is the position of The jewish people in The Old.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Testament we know from the Ancient intertestamental writings all not
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: just The book Of, enoch but and some of these other.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Ones but there are a whole bunch of ancient intertestmental
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: writings that all had this, view and whenever they talked about,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: it was the fallen angel. View the Early church fathers
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: up until about the third, century middle of the third
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: century that they had this view as.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Well, well let me run something past you here that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: just happened to come into my mind while you were.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Talking and it may or may not be question a
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: suitable topic to fit into this. Discussion but we read
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: about principalities and powers and rulers of darkness in heavenly
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: places in The New. Testament in other, words there's still
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: a large contingent and those negative forces out there and they're,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: very very, busy and where do they fit in this.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: DISCUSSION i think that's a great, question and it's one
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: thing THAT i WISH i would have elaborated on more
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: in the. Book in, Fact i've thought about revising adding
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: one chapter or an appenduce appendix on this one. Thing
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: when we have an exhibit at The Creation museum Called Biblical,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: authority and one of the things we do in that
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: we're moving you through biblical history and showing you some
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: of the archaeological. Evidence but one of the themes THAT
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: i traced throughout The bible is the way that The
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: god of Scripture, yahweh The, creator you, know the one True,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: god demonstrates his authority and his power over not just the,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: nations not just kings and, rulers but also the gods
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: of those. Nations so you look At exodus twelve, twelve
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And god so Is i'm going to execute my judgment
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: against the gods Of. Egypt all ten of those plagues
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: were an attack on The egyptian gods who are supposed
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: to be protecting the, children who are supposed to be
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: protecting or are supposed to be The Sun, God well
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it goes dark for three. Days who are the you,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: know all of these different gods and What, god what
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: The True god is showing is they can't stop. Me
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: i'm going to systematically take out each one of. Them
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't Just egypt that. Happened when they go
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: into the land Of. Canaan think about what happened With.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Dagon when The philistines take The ark of The, Covenant
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: dagon falls down on his face right before. It they
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: prop him back. Up the next morning he's fallen down.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Again this time his arm's broken off, right and they,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: said we need to get him, out get this arc
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: out of, here and so over and over and over
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: again in The Old, testament ANDed in The new you
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: see How, yahweh the One True god is showing his
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: power over the, nations over the people's and over the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: gods of those. Nations who are these principalities and powers
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: who are supposed to Be when you Read dudonomy thirty,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Two god said that he gave them the sons Of. God,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: dude only thirty two eight talks About and there's a
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: there's a variant there in The hebrew where maseratic text
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: has The sons Of israel The Dead Sea, scrolls which
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: predate it by over a thousand. Years the septuagen always
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: have sons Of, god the or angels Of. God At,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Babble god divided the nations up and he placed them
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: under the authority of the sons Of. God and they
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: were supposed to rule, Well they're supposed to be, just
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: they were supposed to be caring for the, oppressed but they. Didn't,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: instead they abused their. Authority and if you Read psalmiti,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: two you read about that judgment That god pronounces on
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: them and says THAT i said you are. Gods that's
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the line That jesus quotes In john ten and he's
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Quoting psalmaiti. Two, nevertheless you will. Fall you will die like,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: men and fall like any one of the. Princes and
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: so he In psalmaiti two known of That Divine council
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: passage that some people might be familiar, with where it
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Says god takes a stand in The divine. Council he
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: judges among the. Gods and a lot of times people
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: will try to make that about judges In israel or
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: about other. Things that's not what's going on. There and
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: it's a judgment on these angelic, beings these powers that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: The bible calls. Gods they're not, eternal they're not omnipotent or.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Anything they're not The One True, god but they're angelic,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: beings principalities and powers That god gave them an opportunity
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: and they blew, it and so he announced the judgment.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: There and then you see the same sort of thing
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: going on in The New testament When paul And, silas
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: what do they? Think They're zeus And hermes Or. Hermisan
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: so you still have this interaction with these pagan gods going,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: on And god demonstrates his authority over.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Them you mentioned here The Divine, council but in the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: very next breath you also talk about, polytheism and you're
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: suggesting that The Divine council should not be in any
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: way interpreted as being.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Polytheistic, Right, Yeah so polytheism if you think of more
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: like The Greek olympian. Gods they're all kind of on
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: the same level. There so they're just a multitude of
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: gods that, exist and they're all on the same. Level
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about, IS i Think Michael heiser uses
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: this term mono. Yahism there's one, true all Powerful. God he's,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: eternal he's the, creator and he'd made everything. Else and
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: so these other quote unquote gods lowercase g if you,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: will they're angelic. Beings but The bible is not afraid
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to call them. Gods in, fact you look at the,
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: commandments you shall have no other gods before, me, right
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and so over and over. Again it uses that. Terminology
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and it's JUST i think a lot of times in The,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: west As, christians we get nervous about, that, like, well,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: no there's only there's only One god and one god
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: capital g, true, yes, true but the other. One The
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: bible still refers to these other entities as, gods AND
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: i don't think we need to be afraid of. That
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: it's just it's just what The bible. Says but let's
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: be clear about. It one all, powerful all, knowing Eternal.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: God his name Is. Yahweh or maybe that's not actually
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: pronouncing it, right it's we don't know if that's for
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: sure the right way to pronounce. It but these other
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: ones are they're not, eternal they're not all. Powerful and
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the ones who, rebel they're going to be judged.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Now from the perspective of your, book it would seem
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: that you take the view that there was a rebellion
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: and That god has a very, systematic but to, us
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: a very long term program of dealing with this. Rebellion
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: and of course the Whole bible is about the rebellion
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: and about the solution to the problem and the new
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: heavens and the new earths at the end of the
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: of the. BOOK i love that part me.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: TOO i can't.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Wait but in a way that your book is dealing
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: with the rebellion from a perspective THAT i think most
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: people don't.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Take, YEAH i think what we've done In i'm going
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: to use this term. Again But western theology and maybe
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: The east does this as. Well but especially since the
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: days of The, reformation we tend to look At genesis.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Three we call it The, fall and it clearly was
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: the fall Of. Man BUT i think what you would
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: see with Ancient, hebrews they wouldn't have just a singular,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: fall you, know not everything hinges On genesis. Three you
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: also Have genesis. Six there's another rebellion, there and you
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Have genesis. Eleven you have another rebellion. There and those
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: three rebellions And genesis, one three eleven kind of shaped their,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: worldview whereas what we do because of What paul talked
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: about In romans five and what he talks about One corinthians,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: fifteen we go back to the First adam and his,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: fall and of course our need for, salvation which that's
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: extremely important and absolutely we should talk about, that but
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: we tend to minimize the other two and we don't
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: realize how much that shaped the worldview of the biblical.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Writers now let's turn to another. Story everybody's familiar With, golias,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: okay And.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: DAVID i get nervous around people Named david a. Podcast
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: people can't see, me But i'm about six foot, Nine
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: so When i'm Around DAVID'S i get.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Nervous all, RIGHT i understand from the opposite point of,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: View david is more than a. Hero he's an incredibly
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: complex human, being incredibly. Smart he was used Of god
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: to do a number of different. Things but everybody thinks
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: About david And goliath and what was goliath, Nepheline and
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: let's talk about that question and about that confrontation Between
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: david And goliath and what it really.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Means, yeah it is WHEN i SAY i get nervous
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: BUT i said that a little bit tongue in. Cheek
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite. Passages So goliath is In
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: First AIME i was. Seventeen he's not technically called a
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: giant there it does describe how his size and his
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: armaments and, everything but he has called a giant later
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: on In chronicles it refers to him the descendant of
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the giant or son of the. Giant that back To,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: goliath but he. Is if you think about In joshua,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: eleven you Have joshua driving out or or wiping out
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: The amorites and then these other giant, clans The anachem it,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: says it tells. US i think it's verse twenty one
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: That joshua drove out The anachema throughout the land except
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: for In, Gaza, gath And. Ashdod so those three cities
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the giants. Remained, well what do we read a few
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: hundred years? Later who's still In? Gath that's Where goliath is.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: From that's where he.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Is so he would be one of the he would
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: be a descendant of The. Anachem, yes he's A philistine,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: nationally but you know his, genealogy you go back through,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: that he's going to be part of The anachem and
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: then of course numbers thirteen to thirty three tells us
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the anachem er of The, nephileine so he is he
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: would be one of the.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Nepheline, okay now having said that, story that's, so what
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: is the real import The david And goliath story set
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: on the background of your?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Book, WELL i mean there's a lot to. That so you,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: have of Course, david who is Trusting. God and IF
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: i mentioned earlier about The yahweh versus the gods of the.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Nations even in that, confrontation you know That goliath boasts
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: and says he's going to feed him to the, bird
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: or he's just he's my, dog coming with, sticks And david, says,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: no you've come against The god Of. Israel and this
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: day people are going to know who the True god
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: is and He so you see that confrontation even there
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: between the one True god and these false gods That goliath,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: serves and of Course david wins that. Battle he's the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: one who trusts In. God and So god is showing
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: how he is preserving and protecting his chosen, people The,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: israelites so that they can eventually bring The messiah about
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: eventually they can they can provide the scriptures for us
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Because god used them to As romans three talked about
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: record the oracles Of god and so all of that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: is so important to the rest of biblical. History What
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: david is doing, there and of course he's going to
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: be the king Of israel After saul dies After. ISOSA
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of people guess That david wasn't second king Of.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Israel he's the. Third saul was the first that Sawtun
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: is Ruled israel for two. Years, Well david was Ruling,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: judah but he's the first, one second one to take
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: it for a.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: While and you, know in a kind of a lightheard,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: way there is a high tech aspect to that battle
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Because goliath had all these incredibly heavy, weapons and then
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: he represents brute. Force david as high. Tech he's got
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: a sling and if you know anything about, slings and
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: of Course david the shepherd would protect his flock from
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: wolves with his, sling and he got to Be and
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: by the, way there are slingers who are incredibly. Accurate in,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: fact The roman army is sling shots.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Well AND i think people in our day misunderstand they
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: think these little steel. Bebies, no, no, no if you
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: can see, them if you go to the museum in The,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: bible they have a pile of. These if you go To,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: israel you can see. Them these things are almost the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: size of tennis. Balls, yeah like somewhere between golf ball
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: and tennis ball. Size if you get hit by one of,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: those going big the, sling you can throw that about
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty to one hundred and forty miles an.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Hour you get hit with one of, those you're gonna
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: have a bad day and maybe your last.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Day it'll be your, last as it was For. Goal.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah and and So, david the man of Whom god
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: is backing in this, contest has a lot of aspects
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: that kind of come down to. Us and you know
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: they we have echoes of the battle Of david And
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: goliath going on even today and on into the. Tribulation
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: And david won and he always. Will but again there's the.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Giant there were giants and all in those days and
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: also after, That so how big was and what did
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: he come what lineage did they come?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: From, yeah so he so it says he's a, philistine
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: but AS i mentioned, before he is of The. Anachem
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: that that's. Where, yeah they're still From, Gaza gath And.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Ashta The anachem were still there In judges Or joshua.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Eleven so The anachem are From, anak and it talked
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: About arba is mentioned in several places In joshua And.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Judges he was the greatest of The. Anachem SO i
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: don't know if that if he's the forefather of The.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Anakin we don't know who he. Is but every time
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: his name is, mentioned whether as his name or as
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: part of the city the Curios, arba it tells us
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: something else about. Him it will always have a parenthetical after.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: It so it's like The, israelites The hebrews knew who that,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: was and he was a prominent. Figure we don't know
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: today Who arba was other than the mightiest or the
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: first of The. Anachem we're not. Sure so that's Where
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: goliath came. From that was. His and as far as
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: how big was? He SO i have a whole chapter
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: in the book about how tall were the. Nepheline you,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: know you see these pictures on the internet were skeletons
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: of ten twenty thirty forty fifty feet, tall AND i
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: roll my eyes at that a little, bit not BECAUSE
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: i Doubt god's power or anything like. That it's there are,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: limits as far as we know to the to. Size
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: so for, Example i'm let's use me And. Og So
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: og is the last of the. Reference he's the king
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that is killed In deuteronomy two that he's, mentioned and
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: it says that his bedstead was an iron, bedstead and
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: indeed it was nine cubits by four, cubits so roughly
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: thirteen and a half feet long by six feet. Wide
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: we don't know if he was as tall as his
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: bed was, long but let's assume that for the sake of,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: argument that would make him thirteen and a half feet,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: tall which is exactly twice my. Height i'm six.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Nine. Wow and by the, way, folks WHEN i, stand.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: You're not six ft.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Nine WHEN i stand beside, HIM i disappear.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Well and when the, Last i'll become, first and First
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: i'll be. Last i'm gonna have, hair and you're gonna be.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Tall how?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: That? So, Yeah, well so my, point he's exactly twice my.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Height i'm two hundred and thirty. Pounds so in order
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: for a person to be built to my dimensions is
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: the same AS i. Am if you double my, height
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: he doesn't become four hundred and sixty. Pounds you have
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to multiply that by a figure of. Eight he becomes
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: one and twenty. Pounds, wow because you have to double the,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: width you have doubled the length and the, Depth so
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: you have to multiply that by eight eight. Times so
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna say that somebody's thirteen and a half
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: feet tall at my, size Which i'm fairly thin, now
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: THANKFULLY i used to be over two fifty but and.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: More but eighteen hundred, pounds imagine a heart pumping that.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Long imagine human bones trying to handle that. Weight, now
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the compressive strength of bone where you're just putting waiting straight,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: down you can hold that, weight but the tensile strengths
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: are when you're moving and you're. Twisting bone is not
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: really good at. That and when you're talking about that much,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: weight it's going to create all sorts of. Problems SO
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: i think there is an upper. LIMIT i THINK i
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: think thirteen and a half is probably too. Tall if
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: you look at What goliath is talked about in some
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: of the, text he's about nine foot. Nine you look
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: at some of the Ancient egyptian records and even some
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: of their. ARTWORK i think it puts them in like
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: the eight to ten foot. Range you, KNOW i talked about.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: These The egyptians had a document that talked about THE
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: i think it's about The, shasu who it says they
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: were from they were it would translate to about eight
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: foot ten from nose to. Toe and so that's something
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: an Ancient egyptian talking.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: About, Well i'm going to bring up another, SUBJECT i,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: mean which it really kind of fits, Here But genesis,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: fourteen we Have, Abraham i'm coming up against four gentile
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: kings and they make war with. Him and we won't
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: talk about the, kings but you drop down To genesis
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: fourteen to. Five you have the RepA, emes The, zuzims
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: the A memes uh and a couple of other species
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: or or the line planes of. Giants and would these
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: how would these fit With? Goliath we're talking to About
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: goliath right.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Now, Yeah so those those individuals clans are mentioned, again
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: several of them are Mentioned juteronomy two and. Three so
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: the e mem dwelt in the, land And god, says
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: but he drove them. Out they were people as great
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: and as tall as The, anachem so again he's calling them.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Giants The zuzim are mentioned, there but they're called The
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: zamzumm And guyomy two and three again people great and
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: tall as The. Anachem they were driven, out and The
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: whoreights are mentioned in both places and never specifically calls them,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: giants but they're always mentioned in the same. CONTEXT i
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: think they probably. Were and then The amrits are also
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: considered to be. Giants they're called that In amos way
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: back in The book Of amos talks about. Them their
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: height was like the height of the oak, tree you,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: know that kind of, thing that they're.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Giants SO i guess my point for bringing this up
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: is With david And, goliath you're talking about a metaphor
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Of israel coming against this giant. Force and again you've
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Made genesis Fourteen abram is going up against forces and
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: even giant, forces and the giant forces we think of
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: as non human or somehow connected with something a little bit,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: powerful something that you would hate to take on as
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: a mere human. Being these people have got special powers
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: and special, strengths put it that, way and so you
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: have these battles the edible battles What but what do
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: they represent? Metaphorically you, know because these GIANTS i think
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: are a metaphor for the forces Of satan in a.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Way, Well i'm sure they can be used that way
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: if we were. TO i, DON'T i don't. KNOW i
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: know you're not spiritualizing the. Text you because you believe
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: there were real giants, there WHICH i do. Too and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: so in the, sense like With, david we can talk
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: about how we know when we depend on The, lord
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: when we're trusting in, him he he is faithful to
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: fulfill his. Promises that doesn't always mean that we're going
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: to win every single battle, physically that we're going to
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: make our mortgage payment on, time we're going to do.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Whatever it doesn't it. Doesn't god doesn't promise all those
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: things to. Us but he does guarantee that those who
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: have trusted In, him those who place there faith In,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: christ are going to be raised to. Life at the last,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Day we're going to Be we're going to dwell With him,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: eternally and there will be no more, tears no more,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: sorrow no more. Pain that's that new heaven and New
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: earth you were talking. About, yes and so all of
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: those things are promises to. Us and also even in
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: this life we can have. Joy we can have peace
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: of The, lord and peace from The, lord peace with The.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Lord all three of those nagers are so, important and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: SO i think even in the midst of whatever this
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: world throws at, us no matter how dark it, gets
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: we can trust that, one Our, savior has already been through,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: it And he's done it all without, sin and he
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: gives us The Holy spirit to empower us to live godly,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: lives and we can remain faithful to The lord during.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: That now you're chapter ten here the fallen angel view
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Is jewish Given jewish support in chapter, eleven the Fallen
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: angel view Early christian support coming on into The christian
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: era of what has been the history of belief in
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the fallen ones fallen.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Angels, yeah so this, topic the early church, fathers anybody
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: who wrote on the topic for the first two centuries
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: held to the fallen angel. View they all acknowledged that
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: these were angels who came down married women and had,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: children and the giants were from. Them so that is
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: found in multiple early church father's. Writing it's not until
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: about the three. HUNDREDS i think there's one in the
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: middle of the second middle of the two, hundreds but
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: then around the three hundreds you started to see the
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: shift to more of an allegorical. Interpretation and that's what
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: happened with The jewish writers in the beginning of the second.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Century they started to adopt an allegorical approach and suddenly
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: it was which is kind of ironic because they will
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: accuse the people like me who hold to the fallen angel.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: View they, say, oh you're borrowing From greek. Mythology actually
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: they're the ones borrowing from The. Greeks the allegorical approach
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: came from The. Greeks and do you know why it
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: was developed the philosophers back in the fifth and sixth CENTURIES.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Bc The greek people Loved homer And hesiod and all
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: these myths that they. Had you, know you think of
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: it the, oddists so you think Of. Zeus but when
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: you started to get to more of a philosophical, age
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: you think about what the gods were. Doing zeus is
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Leaving olympus to come down and have affairs with, women
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: and the gods are pretty foul characters when you really
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: start to think about, it and so a way to
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: rescue those writings rather than just dispose them and throw
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: them on the ash heap of, history was to allegorize.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Them say, no, no, No zeus just represents the, wind or
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: he represents some. Force and so they started to come
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: up with different. Meanings at that's what the word allegory is,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: like other, wording other, interpretation and so they started to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: come up with a different way to interpret the text
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: in a way that was not consistent with what the
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: word actually. Means and then that became popular down In,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: alexandria which is The greek center of learning for some
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: time Besides. Athens and if you look at where all
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: the allegory comes from in The jewish, writings you Have
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: philo From, alexandria and then from a lot of The christian,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: writing it also flowed out Of. Alexandria so you have
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: this allegorical approach to scripture where the words don't actually
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: mean what we think they. Mean they mean something. Else
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: and that's what happened with The sons Of god and the.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Nepheline it was it no longer is exactly what we
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: think it. Means it has to be something else because
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: we don't like what it, says.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: And what does it really. Say what it really.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Says is that there were angels who rebelled Against god
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: and they had children with, women and those, children the
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: offspring were. Giants for whatever. Reason we don't know why
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: an angel and human coming together that way would create.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: GIANTS i don't know THE dna involved there, Exactly but.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: You do hold to the veracity of these, narratives.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Right and even IF i know sometimes people will, say,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: well but that's why Would god allow? That that's just. Disgusting,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: well first of, All god allows a lot of things
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: that are evil to, Happen but the whole idea of that's.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Disgusting it can't, happen think OF i think people have
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the wrong idea of what fallen angels. Are you, know
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: we tend to think of more of like a horned
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: toady wardy kind of creature that would you, know would
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: scary to death if you saw, it or something like.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: That but if there was one who was coming to
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: try to deceive, you don't you think they would appear
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: in a very appealing. Manner, sure when you think about
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: the way that it's portrayed in, film where you have
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: a similar, storyline the movie Be, dazzle the newer one
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: that the, remake you Have Elizabeth hurley is playing the
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: devil tempting at, well of course you're gonna a beautiful woman.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: There or you Have Chris hemsworth Playing, thor Who jane
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: falls in love, with you, know and he's either.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Way i'm glad you brought that up because that shows
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: the secular infatuation with this same. Story The thor series
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: of movies that are, very very very. Popular probably most
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: of the teenagers in early twenties have seen those movies
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: and they've absorbed that. Idea you know that the gods,
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: are you, know just pretty good.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: People you even have That guardians of The. Galaxy it's
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the same thing where the second, film the Guy Chris
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: pratt's father played By Kurt, russell is viewed as a
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: god and he goes around to these different planets and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: is sleeping with different women and producing offspring in. That
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: so that's the same. Idea but they're appealing characters in
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the sense that they visually. Appealing they're not going to
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: be these horrible Gross now from a spiritual, perspective we
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: know who they are and that's. Disgusting but from just
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: the physical, perspective they're not going to appear in the
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: most vile form that you can. Imagine satan manifests an
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: angel of, light and so it's no wonder if his
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: ministers do the. Same.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Now, so, really this mythology has leaped forward into our,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: era our contemporary, era and it's kind of, a if you,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Will satanic, propaganda in my. Opinion and for those who
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: do not know The lord and who are infatuated with
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: the whole idea of outer space and powers and acquiring
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: various kinds of, power and, WOW i WISH i could
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: meet one of those people who could impart some of
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: his powers to, me and, boy WOULD i ever do
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: some wonderful things IF i had those. Powers and that
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: whole mythology has kind of crept into our.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: CULTURE i think it's part Of god putting eternity in our.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Hearts we long for something bigger and grander than, ourselves
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and yet our culture has been so deceived to the point, where,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: well it's not The, bible it's not what The bible tells.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Us it's got to be something. Else and they will believe,
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: anything no matter how outlandish or bad. Are but the,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: truth The, truth is the True son Of. God the
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: actual son Of, god The Lord Jesus christ became one of, Us,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: yes and he took on human, flesh and he was
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: born as a baby In. Bethlehem he had his diapers,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: changed he went, through he grew up and grew in
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: wisdom and knowledge and, stature and he in favor with The.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Lord As luke tells, us he was tempted in always
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: that we, are and yet without. Sin and then he
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: did the most amazing thing. Ever he went to the
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: cross and died in our. Place he took the most
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: horrifying death that we can ever, imagine was beaten mercilessly
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and went to the cross and took our. Place that's
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: what we. Deserve we've all rebelled against our. Creator we deserve.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: That and Yet god himself Said i'll take. It i'll do.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: It and it's not over three days. Later i'm going
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: to rise from the dead And i'm going to show
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: you what's gonna happen to you if you. Believe and,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: yeah you can't plumb the depths Of god's. Love as
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you said, before it's just it's. Incredible and nobody would
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: make up that.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Story, no they would. Not and as you're sort of
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: telling that story recounting that what comes to my mind
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: is one of the most impressive scriptural statements in the Entire.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Bible in First john and his three little, words and
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: the three words Are god is, love.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Says it. Twice it says it.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Twice you're exactly, right and those are that's kind of
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: a throwaway. Line god love a minute a. Minute that's.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: Huge that's.
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: Huge it's especially in our day because if you look
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: At jesus told his disciples shortly, before before he was
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: arrest and, everything all men will know you are my
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: disciples if you have the best theological, arguments if you
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: fight and argue with your brothers all the, time, no
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: if you have love for one another a new command
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: WHEN i give you love one. Another that's what we've
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: been commanded to. Do and you, know as a, church
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of times we fail at that loving fellow
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: believers because they might have different theological views than. Us
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: AND i think it's a shame because The, Bible jesus
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: is very, clear people will know the outside world is
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: going to know you're my followers if you have love
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: for one. Another if we want to reach this lost
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: and dying, culture then let's show them Who god. Is
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: god is. Love let's show them what that really looks
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: like and treat fellow brothers and sisters In christ with
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: love and. Respect it doesn't mean that there's not, correction
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: of course there, is but it's done in a spirit,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: gentleness As Galatian sick talks. About and so that's an
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: issue that's been really close to my heart. Lately i've
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: been in the middle of writing an article on. IT
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: i THINK i think it's so important for us to
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: Take jesus seriously when he says, that.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: Well if you're writing an article on, it we might
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: be able to print that the prophets. Watcher that sounds
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: like a great. Article but as we look at the big,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: picture and MAYBE i should say the huge picture of The,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: nephilim the, demigods people who tried to assume the power Of,
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: god and they tried to take the earth by, force
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: and by the, way they're still. Trying those principalities and
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: powers are still at. Work, really this entire subject becomes
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: a question of the love Of god versus the revolutionary
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: power of human beings under the guidance of sat trying
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: to still try to, rebel still trying to create another superior.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Culture and by the, way that's you, KNOW i guess
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: behind everything we see, today the strive Toward marxist, communism
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: it's all backed by these ancient the conflicts that we
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: read about in The. Bible it's coming to us in
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: a slightly modified.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Form oh, yeah it gets repackaged all the. Time and
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: there's a reason Why marxism is very much Anti. Christian
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: marx himself was very clear on that. Issue and so
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: you see in our culture today a lot of this
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: what we call Neo, marxism whether it's the critical gender
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: theory or critical race theory or all the other. Ones,
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: yes they're all part of a Neo marxist worldview that
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: is attacking anything of A Judeo christian foundation of our.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Culture because if you can destroy the, family if you
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: can destroy the, church if you can just you're going
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to bring down the. Country and that's what they, want
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: as much conflict as. Possible they want to separate everybody
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: any means. Possible and yet The bible talked about how
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: good it is when brothers can dwell in, unity and
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: what we talked about just a little bit ago that,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: sure The christians are supposed to have love for one.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Another and by the, way we're also commanded to love our.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Enemy we're also commanded to love our. Family and can
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: you think of anybody outside of? That love one, another
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: love your, neighbor love your. ENEMY i think that includes.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: EVERYBODY i think it. Does and again we have an
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: opportunity these, DAYS i think to practice that as never.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Before the Author Tim, chafee and that the book is
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: a very detailed book about the sons Of, god The,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Nephilum this this ancient battle that's been going. On if
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: you want, clarity if you want to detailed the detailed
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: aspects of, this this, revolution it's been going on for
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: how many thousand years now and since before the, flood
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: so before the. Flood, yeah and if you really want
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: to read about the, Details tim's done some amazing research.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Here and what are you working on?
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: Now by the, Way, well Actually i'm glad you, asked
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: BECAUSE i think the Project i'm working on at work
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: at The ark And counter in The Crest museum is
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: something that you guys are going to. Love we are
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: building a huge model of first Century jerusalem from the
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: time Of. Jesus so it's going to be about forty
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: feet by sixty, feet so it's not as large as
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: the one that you see at The Israel museum, today
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: but that's FROM ad sixty six and it's all made
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: out of the same. Material it's not populated at, all
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: so it's hard to see the. Scale what we're doing
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: is actually putting more than fifteen thousand little figures in.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: There we're putting all the greenery Every it's going to
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: be the most accurate model Of jerusalem anywhere in the.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: World, now this is The jerusalem Of jesus.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Time, yeah so from thirty THREE.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: ADO i don't think anybody's ever done that THAT i
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: can think.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: THAT i know. Of we're working with the, experts even
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: the curator of the museum or The Israel, museum who
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: is the curator of that exhibit that that huge. Model
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: we've been working with, him contracted with him to look
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: over some of our. Stuff we have been digging through
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: excavation reports and everything we can to get it exactly.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Right in, fact WHEN i finished my doctorate back In,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: may my dissertation was on a historical study Of jerusalem
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: from circa thirty three a. D and comparing it to.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Today so you, know when you go there today they,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: say here's The Via Dola rosa Where jesus, right that's
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: on the wrong side of town and actually over, here
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: and even if it was, here you'd be twenty feet.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Lower so it's not that you can't have a profound
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: spiritual experience, there of course you can.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Well but having gone To, israel of, course the steps
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: at the south end of the SOUTHWEST i guess it, is,
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: yeah southwest end of the temple that that go up
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: into the southern. Platform people say That jesus actually may
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: have walked on those. Steps SO i got a chance
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: to walk up those, steps you, know AND i walked
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: up there AND i thought about, This, wow what a
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: what a.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Thing we were there a year, ago and there are
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: four of us on the team that went, there and
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: we walked on what's called the Pilgrimage road from The
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: pool Of saloam and they're excavating right. Now we got
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: The we were led by the archaeologist who's doing, it and,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: yeah some of the steps are first. Century you're walking
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Where jesus walked after he would have healed the blind. Man,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: yeah and it's. People pretty soon that road's going to open,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: up maybe in about five years and people can go,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: there but what people won't be able to do there
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: that they can do with what we're. Doing you're still
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: going to be a lot of times on top of you,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: know twenty to thirty feet of rock and, sediment we're
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: going to be showing people what it actually looked like
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: In jesus' time and doing a lot of teaching. There
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: SO i can't wait for that to.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: HAPPEN i want to see. That, yeah you are going
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: to make a, book.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: So probably several of. Them, Yeah i'm working right on right.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: NOW i gots thumbed through and see all these. Places that's.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: Terrific may The lords be your, Work thank you so.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Much his name Is Tim. Chaffey he's Written Follow him
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Of god and The nephelem and by the way that
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a good read AND i suggest, it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: and may The lord bless. You